Latest / Chatting with The Experts with Paula Okonneh / Crafting Messages That Connect

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Crafting Messages That Connect · Chatting with The Experts with Paula Okonneh

• 0:03
  Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Chatting with the Experts
• 0:07
  TV show where I, Paula Okonneh speak with women from Africa, from
• 0:12
  the Caribbean, and in the diaspora.
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  The mission of this show is to inspire, to empower and to educate women
• 0:21
  globally, and these women who are.
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  My guests are professionals and successful entrepreneurs,
• 0:28
  and they also share my mission.
• 0:31
  Today's title is Messaging That Resonates How to Stand Out without shouting.
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  And, my guest who will join us shortly says, "so many brilliant
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  experts struggle to explain what they do. And even more struggle to
• 0:51
  turn their message into momentum."
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  So in this particular episode, Lola Bailey, who's my guest, will break
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  down why messaging is more than just a choice of words, and she'll tell
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  us how to position your value in a way that lands and also explain why
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  clarity is the most underrated growth strategy for coaches and consultants.
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  Lola Bailey is a messaging strategist.
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  She's a ghost writer also for coaches, consultants, and creative experts
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  who want to turn their ideas into clarity and their clarity into clients.
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  She's had over a decade of experience in copywriting and brand storytelling
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  and helps business owners move from, I'm not sure what to say
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  about this, to messaging that feels true, sounds sharp, and sells smart.
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  And with that, I want to welcome Lola Bailey to Chatting with the Experts.
• 1:56
  Hello.
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  Hello.
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  Hello, hello.
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  I love, I love what you do and I love your title, "Messaging That Resonates:
• 2:04
  How To Stand Out Without Shouting".
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  How do we do that?
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  Wow.
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  I mean, how do we do that?
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  That's the perennial question.
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  And it's also a question that I get asked a lot.
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  I think the reason why is that there are a lot of these marketing type
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  terms that really confuse people.
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  And in a bid to navigate their way out of this sort of morass of
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  terminology, they end up not really doing themselves much justice because
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  those terms exist for a reason.
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  And it's only when you understand the terms and why they're there, that
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  you can then begin to apply them to your business and see the results.
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  I love what you said when you understand, because understanding is key, and
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  that's I guess, a big part of clarity.
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  Your message needs to be clear.
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  If not, you know you're saying something and people are probably nodding.
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  But they're nodding because they don't want to seem like, oh, I'm
• 3:00
  the only one who doesn't understand.
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  Well, they want to be polite.
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  They want be polite.
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  They want to be polite.
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  So what's the difference?
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  I mean, we are in a world where social media is dominant.
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  If you don't know what social media is, you must be living under a rock.
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  That's what I say to people, but what's the difference between messaging?
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  We hear that we need to message what's the difference between that content
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  and copy, and does it even matter?
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  Yeah, that's such a fantastic question.
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  It's a big question, so I'm going to take my time to answer
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  it because it's so important.
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  And I'm really passionate about helping people to understand the differences
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  because there are differences.
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  We are living in what I call an infobesity crisis.
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  So by that I mean there is just so much information available flying around.
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  We have adverts.
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  We have podcasts.
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  We have videos.
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  We have webinars.
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  We have newsletters.
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  You know, our inboxes are groaning under the strain of so much content.
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  Hence the term infobesity crisis.
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  It's a lot of information.
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  What people are looking for is not information.
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  What they're looking for is really resonance.
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  And resonance is where messaging fits in.
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  In terms of the difference between content, which is what I've just
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  described, so all the podcasts, the webinars, the newsletters,
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  the videos, the webinars.
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  So the difference between content and messaging and copy
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  is what I'm gonna explain now.
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  The purpose of content.
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  So that's all the things I've listed.
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  Now, all the marketing collateral, the purpose of that is to build trust.
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  So it's to build trust between you and your target audience.
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  So you might do that through your newsletter.
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  You might do that through a tv, a station like you have here.
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  You might do that through your podcast.
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  You might have written a book.
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  All of this is content and the purpose is to build trust with the
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  audience that you want to attract.
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  Copy or copywriting on the other hand, has a very distinctive purpose.
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  The purpose of that is to provoke some form of conversion.
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  And by conversion I mean some sort of action.
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  That action could actually be a change of thinking.
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  The action could be getting someone to donate to a charity.
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  You know, there's a reason why some of us burst into tears when
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  they see a Wateraid advertisement.
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  That's copywriting.
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  Then the purpose is to pull at our heartstrings.
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  So we open up our wallets and donate.
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  That is copywriting.
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  It's writing with a specific purpose.
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  The purpose could be to sign up to your newsletter, to subscribe
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  to your YouTube channel.
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  So copywriting serves a very specific purpose, and that is conversion.
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  By contrast, content is there to build a relationship
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  through all the various media.
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  We have from videos to podcast to newsletter.
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  So that, that I hope describes the difference between
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  the two, copy and content.
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  It surely does.
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  I mean, this is first time I've heard it, so crystal clear.
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  But that's your specialty, to make things clear, crystal clear.
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  Yeah.
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  That's great.
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  Because clarity is key.
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  It's absolutely key and absolutely key.
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  I mean, I say to people in my messaging workshops, you
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  have to be ruthlessly clear.
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  Which brings me onto the messaging.
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  So messaging is, I guess, an easy way to describe it for your audience.
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  Messaging is how you convey the value of what you do and
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  what you bring to the table.
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  Where a lot of people get things wrong is that they start by just posting content.
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  Where they need to start is by refining their positioning.
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  Messaging comes after positioning.
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  So for me, my brand is trying to occupy the space of messaging, which
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  is between positioning and copywriting.
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  Positioning is the space that you want to occupy in the minds of your ideal clients.
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  So let me give you a very simple, powerful example.
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  Volvo is a brand.
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  It's a car.
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  Everybody knows or heard of Volvo, yeah?
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  Mm-hmm.
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  I'm sure... do they have Volvo in America?
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  I'm sure they have Volvo in America.
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  We
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  do.
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  We do.
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  Yes.
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  Okay, great.
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  Gosh, thinking, my gosh.
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  Maybe it's just the UK.
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  So Volvo is a brand that everyone is familiar with.
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  People are also familiar with Ferrari.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  Yeah.
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  But they're both cars.
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  But on the other hand, they have very different positioning.
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  Volvo is positioned to occupy the space of safety.
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  Yes.
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  In the minds of its ideal clients.
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  For example, families would be a target audience for Volvo.
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  Ferrari, on the other hand, is not positioned for that.
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  They are positioned for exhilaration, dopamine, you know, speed, you
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  know, sort of a man, the man or woman with a lot of money.
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  It's very different positioning.
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  They are both cars, but they have both decided ahead of time exactly
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  the space that they want to occupy in the minds of their ideal clients.
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  So once you've got your positioning sorted out to your differentiation.
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  Once you have established that, only then can you then start to talk
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  about any messaging, because your messaging, so what you say about your
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  positioning speaks to that positioning.
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  So you'll see Volvo adverts, whether in print or TV or wherever speak to their
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  positioning, anything to do with safety.
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  So they might talk about a specific new safety feature.
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  They might focus on, you know, families and keeping people safe.
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  Everything they do will speak to their positioning.
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  That is what we mean by messaging.
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  So messaging is translating your positioning into content.
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  And from the content into the copy that drives a specific action.
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  For Volvo could be book a test drive.
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  That would be where the copywriting comes in, getting
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  them to actually take an action.
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  So that's the progression.
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  You start with the positioning.
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  Yeah.
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  That's your differentiation.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  From the positioning, you have messaging that speaks to that.
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  So you will be talking safety if you're Volvo.
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  If you're Ferrari, you'll be talk talking risk, speed.
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  That is all messaging that reflects the positioning.
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  And then your copywriting depends on what your objective is.
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  Do you want people to book a test drive?
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  Do you want them to sort of know about a specific key feature?
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  So it's very much down to the objective that you want for that piece of content.
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  So that's the difference between the three.
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  Wow.
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  You have broken it down so well.
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  You know that now I know.
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  I mean, I've heard it.
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  I've read it, but I've really heard it today.
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  Wow.
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  Positioning.
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  I'm really pleased.
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  It's the messaging that speaks and that leads you to the copywriting and I guess
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  then, and then with the copywriting, then you put it on whatever platform
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  that will be the content, whether it's a TV show, a podcast, newsletter.
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  That's all content.
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  That's all content.
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  So your copy is when you want people to do something or to think
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  something or to believe something.
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  Content is the general stuff.
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  Like what we're doing now is content.
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  Yes.
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  Your newsletters that you send; content.
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  Your LinkedIn post, most of them will be content.
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  You might just be, you know, showcasing how to do something that's content,
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  but copy when you said tell, you want people to sign up for your webinar or
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  you want them to join your workshop.
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  That's copy and it's how you manipulate that to get people to respond.
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  So that is the skill of a copywriting.
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  It's selling.
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  So copywriting is literally selling in print, whether that's digital or analog.
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  It's selling.
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  Thank you for explaining that.
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  I'm glad you asked the question because it's where so many people go wrong.
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  They start off by just making posts.
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  Yes.
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  And then they wonder why they're not getting anything, any
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  traction from their posts because they've started at the wrong end.
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  At the wrong end.
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  Indeed.
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  But they need to do my work... my messaging workshop basically.
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  Yeah.
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  And so, you know, and that same train of thought, you know, so there's a
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  price for unclear messaging, obviously.
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  Yeah.
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  That definitely there's a very big price for unclear messaging, and I'm sure
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  you can already guess what that is.
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  The prices that you will be completely invisible to your ideal clients.
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  I mean, just to give you an example, I actually made a post just today about it.
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  I was linking it to Jollof rice, party Jollof, and the post was saying that,
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  it's easy to say, I help you improve engagement with your social media, but so
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  does jollof rice party, jollof Rice, which is a Nigerian national dish, as you know.
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  And soda.
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  Can improve everybody's engagement.
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  But I mean, that's the point I'm trying to make is that, what do you mean?
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  What do you mean by engagement?
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  It can apply to anything.
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  And we see so much of this on social media.
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  They have become almost like commodity phrases.
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  I call them commodity phrases.
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  Very broad, very general, very unspecific.
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  They just don't really tell anybody anything.
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  As I said, it can apply equally to Jollof rice as a counter
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  to social media engagement.
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  So, it's unclear messaging.
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  It's not specific messaging.
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  So, an example would be to, you know, to increase the number of people responding
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  to your posts, or improving the resonance of your posts with your ideal clients.
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  You know, it just has to very much speak to your positioning, whatever
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  your positioning happens to be.
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  If you're a manager, rather than saying, unlock performance, you
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  know, get the best out of your team and with their sales performance.
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  Something that speaks more specifically to what it is that you are trying to achieve.
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  You know, I help sort of introverted managers become more
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  visible within their organization.
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  Do you know what I mean?
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  Rather than, you know, I help managers get promoted.
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  Well, which managers?
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  Managers in biotech, managers in restaurants, you know,
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  it's, a lot of people are very vague with their positioning,
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  so they're not seen by people.
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  I mean, there's so many people whose headlines I see, executive coach, all I
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  have to do is put executive coach into the search bar on LinkedIn and I get
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  tens of thousands of responses of people calling themselves executive coaches.
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  So how am I supposed to choose between you and the other tens of
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  thousands of executive coaches?
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  Yes.
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  And then people says LinkedIn is not working.
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  So how do people fix that?
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  Give us a clue.
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  How do we...
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  Well, apart from coming in my workshop...
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  But...
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  Yeah.
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  I mean, how they fix that is it just starts with ruthless clarity.
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  So it's ruthless clarity over exactly who is it you are trying to
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  target with whatever your offer is.
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  So we talked about Volvo.
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  We talked about Ferrari.
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  Yeah.
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  They are crystal clear.
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  They have a ruthless clarity about who they're trying to target.
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  You need to bring that same clarity.
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  You need to really be able to see that person in the flesh.
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  So you need to have that ruthless clarity.
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  And we've literally spent most of our first session in our workshop
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  developing that ruthless clarity.
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  I just kept going back at people.
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  It's not specific enough.
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  It's not specific enough.
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  People have to see themselves in your profile, in your headline.
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  So it really starts with that ruthless clarity about who the
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  best person is for your offer.
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  Then you have to be very clear about what it is that you offer, you are offering.
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  What is the scope of it?
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  Where are the limitations of what it is you are you are offering?
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  What is it you are offering, and what is it you are not offering so that
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  there's no scope, there's no space at all for confusion or subjectivity or
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  misrepresentation or misunderstanding.
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  So you have to really spend a lot of time working on that.
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  And then you have to sort of make sure that you've done your positioning.
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  I mean, that comes before everything else, as we said.
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  That's number one.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  So is your positioning differentiated enough?
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  Could anybody be providing what you're providing?
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  I mean, can I find someone else who's literally telling me the same thing
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  that you're telling me right now?
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  Before I chose my headline L and D, ghost writer messaging strategist.
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  I looked on LinkedIn to see if anybody else was calling themselves
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  that I couldn't see anybody.
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  And I'm not saying there isn't that.
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  Sorry,
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  I said you, but I is unique.
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  I mean, I remember looking at that before I knew you, before I was introduced
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  to you and I'm like ghost writing.
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  I haven't heard people talk about that in years.
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  You know, especially, yeah.
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  I mean, there are ghost writers, but they don't, I haven't seen any call
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  themselves, L and D ghost writer.
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  And the reason why is because I want my ideal clients, and the majority of
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  them, they're not exclusively to be working in learning and development.
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  Lo and behold, the ones who come to my inbox pretty much every week
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  work in learning and development.
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  Some even don't even engage with my content.
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  And they just say, I'm looking for an analytic ghost writer.
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  But if you just have executive coach, who are you expecting
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  to be knocking on your dm box?
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  So that is, that is the big, big, big, big, big mistake people make.
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  And then, then I get people saying, oh, LinkedIn is in, I'm leaving LinkedIn.
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  It's not working Well.
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  Is a reason for most things.
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  Success on LinkedIn isn't about thousands of followers, thousands of like,
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  it's not about those vanity metrics.
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  It's about whatever you decided your objective to be.
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  Not everyone has an objective of wanting to sell anything.
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  Some people just like writing, sharing information, but for a lot of people,
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  their objective is to sell their services.
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  So if it is to sell your services, then you have to do that exercise.
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  You have to put in the nine yards.
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  You have to go through the process.
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  This is my positioning.
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  Now I can speak to my messaging, and then I can create my content
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  to speak to my messaging.
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  And I like to think about it as saying the same thing in a thousand ways, and that's
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  one of the things we do in my workshop.
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  We talk, we say the same things in a thousand ways.
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  So I've given them what I call a messaging ecosystem that helps 'em
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  say the same thing in a thousand ways, and that is how they dominate.
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  That's my plan for them to dominate their niche.
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  Once they have clarified that niche that they're going for, they're
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  hyper-specific, they then dominated.
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  So hopefully that answers your question.
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  Yes, it does.
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  It does.
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  But you know, it, it brings me also to the, and there's
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  emotions that go with that.
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  You know, you hyper-specific.
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  Yes.
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  But people are human beings and so they need to see something that makes
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  them feel, you are talking to me.
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  Mm.
• 17:45
  You know, I can relate to that.
• 17:47
  Yeah.
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  Seeing yourself in that position.
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  Definitely you've hit the nail on the head there.
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  I'm so, so big on the whole emotional piece.
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  Well, two of the foundational models that I use for my work
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  are the Persuasion Triangle.
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  I dunno if you've heard of it.
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  It's sometimes called, the Rhetorical Triangle.
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  It's by Aristotle.
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  It's the ethos, logos and pathos.
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  I'm sure a lot of your audience would've heard of it.
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  It's classical.
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  It goes back centuries.
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  So it's devised by Aristotle and it's about the art of persuasion.
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  And it talks about how to persuade anyone.
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  You need to have three elements.
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  You need to have ethos, which is all about your credibility as a person, as
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  a provider, you need to have pathos.
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  And pathos is all about your appeal to the emotions of your ideal client.
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  And that's huge.
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  A lot of people miss that out.
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  And then the final piece of the triangle is the logos.
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  And logos is all about your solution.
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  It's the answer that you have to the problems that your ideal clients have.
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  Your ability to get them their goals to help them reach the
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  destination that they want to reach.
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  Those three elements go into it.
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  But a huge part of it is the emotions.
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  And what I've found is that people, especially on LinkedIn, tend to go
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  on either one side or the other.
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  You rarely see all three.
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  So you'll see people who very clinical, they only talk about how good their
• 19:03
  offer is, but there's very little emotional resonance, and we are people.
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  People buy from people.
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  So you need that emotional resonance.
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  Yeah.
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  So you get people who are all emotion and no rationality at all.
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  So all you see is sort of the heart aspect of it all, the sort of the
• 19:18
  storytelling, the sort of emotions.
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  That's it.
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  You don't get much else.
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  You don't really get the argument behind what they're selling.
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  And then there are people who just talk about all their achievements.
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  I'm thrilled to announce you see that a lot on LinkedIn.
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  I'm thrilled to announce this.
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  I'm thrilled to elapse that.
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  That's all you see.
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  But what you need is to have all three elements of the triangle.
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  And all three need to be reflected in your messaging as well.
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  So, but yes, I mean, I'm so big on emotions and I keep pushing people.
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  I need to feel it.
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  I need to feel it.
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  I'm not feeling it right now, but I need to feel it.
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  Let's go back and revise that.
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  You know, can you have a more specific outcome?
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  Can we use a stronger verb here?
• 19:57
  I need more, you know, can we add a bit of context that people really
• 20:00
  resonate with what you're saying?
• 20:02
  So it's work.
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  I mean, there's a reason why copywriters a pretty well paid because they're doing
• 20:07
  this work, whereas people who don't have that background aren't doing it.
• 20:11
  They don't know what they don't know.
• 20:15
  They don't know what they don't know.
• 20:17
  So essentially what I'm hearing from you is, well, you alluded to that when
• 20:20
  I asked that question that, you know, do we have to bring our emotions into it?
• 20:25
  Because as you said, I mean, people are people and so, and a professional social
• 20:32
  media platform like LinkedIn, you are saying that your messaging should be
• 20:36
  such that there's emotional resonance.
• 20:39
  And that should trump over, you know, having such a polished copy.
• 20:44
  That people see it.
• 20:45
  Okay.
• 20:45
  They acknowledge it, but it doesn't reach down to their soul.
• 20:48
  It doesn't move them.
• 20:50
  Yeah, exactly.
• 20:51
  And especially so in the age of AI because with AI it's very easy for
• 20:56
  people to... how can I put this?
• 21:00
  It's very people to mistake their ability to write.
• 21:04
  Or overrate their ability to write content.
• 21:07
  AI is literally a machine that scrapes the internet.
• 21:11
  It works on patterns.
• 21:13
  It's not a human being.
• 21:14
  It doesn't really understand emotion driven context.
• 21:18
  It doesn't.
• 21:19
  So whilst I'm all for AI as a tool for efficiency and to speed things up
• 21:25
  and to help you be more productive, it's not a substitute for raw human
• 21:30
  emotions, you know, the blind spots that we have, the mistakes that we make.
• 21:34
  It's not a substitute for that.
• 21:36
  Unfortunately, because of AI, we see a lot of very, very low quality
• 21:42
  posts on social media written by AI.
• 21:47
  And that's why so many posts look the same.
• 21:50
  They blend into one another.
• 21:52
  They have the same structure, the same formatting, the
• 21:54
  same words, the same phrases.
• 21:56
  They blend into one another, and it's a huge missed opportunity for
• 22:00
  somebody who understands writing.
• 22:03
  And the whole purpose really is to move somebody.
• 22:06
  Otherwise, why are you writing anything?
• 22:09
  If you're writing for yourself, then you can just write in your journal.
• 22:14
  You don't need to spend time writing for LinkedIn if you
• 22:18
  are just writing for yourself.
• 22:20
  If you're going to write for LinkedIn, then isn't it worth
• 22:22
  learning how to do it properly?
• 22:25
  Absolutely.
• 22:26
  And I think that's probably where the confusion started that people
• 22:28
  look at LinkedIn as a professional social media platform and then
• 22:33
  like Facebook is more personal.
• 22:35
  IG, you know, stories.
• 22:36
  Yeah.
• 22:37
  But at the same time, a lot of people forget it's people still
• 22:42
  who are coming to LinkedIn.
• 22:43
  Yes.
• 22:44
  They may be professional, but deep down we are human.
• 22:47
  Yeah.
• 22:47
  Well, you, as you mentioned a few minutes ago, that you know AI, yes is for
• 22:51
  efficiency, but it's doesn't have a soul.
• 22:55
  No, it doesn't have a soul at all.
• 22:58
  And that's why there's so much soulless copy out there.
• 23:00
  Yes.
• 23:01
  There's so much soulless content.
• 23:03
  And honestly, I mean, I can read one post about toxic managers, and then another
• 23:07
  one will come about toxic managers and another one go about toxic managers.
• 23:11
  And they're literally just almost like iterations of one another.
• 23:15
  One blends into the other.
• 23:16
  So you just, you don't get anything from any.
• 23:20
  Wow.
• 23:21
  Maybe there might be a selfie there to make it different.
• 23:23
  But ultimately what they're saying is exactly the same thing from the
• 23:26
  same limited, sort of cohort of AI content that you are getting.
• 23:31
  And it is such a shame.
• 23:33
  It's such a shame because when you have so much lived experience, when you are
• 23:35
  the only one who had that experience with Mr. X, Mrs. Y, who learned this specific
• 23:40
  thing from this place that you are at, who, who had this specific takeaway.
• 23:45
  Mm-hmm.
• 23:45
  Who did this specific thing at this specific time.
• 23:48
  We don't get that.
• 23:49
  Mm-hmm.
• 23:50
  Mm-hmm.
• 23:52
  You are so right.
• 23:54
  You know, we forget more and more.
• 23:56
  I mean, but this, I think is bringing some hope to people who are like, is AI
• 24:01
  taken over the world with everything?
• 24:03
  Absolutely.
• 24:04
  What you are saying is that, we are still people.
• 24:07
  Our messaging have to reflect who we are.
• 24:09
  Yes.
• 24:10
  And as a business person who you are trying to reach.
• 24:13
  'cause people are not, you know, we don't fall for the message from a machine,
• 24:17
  from a car, from a, you know, non-human.
• 24:19
  Yeah.
• 24:20
  But we are listening and we are leaning, like I'm leaning in to
• 24:23
  hear more from you because...
• 24:25
  Yeah.
• 24:26
  Exactly.
• 24:26
  Speaking to the heart.
• 24:28
  That's it.
• 24:28
  That's absolutely it.
• 24:29
  And you know, we may have new technology, we may have new developments
• 24:33
  and, you know, I dunno what, what the world is gonna be like in even
• 24:36
  next year, let alone 10 years time.
• 24:38
  But one thing I'm sure is that nothing new in under the sun.
• 24:41
  No.
• 24:41
  When it comes to human beings, there's nothing new under the sun.
• 24:45
  We will still have the same, we're still, you know, sinful people, flawed
• 24:51
  human beings with the same fears, the same hopes, the same desires.
• 24:56
  So what I say to people is, and another one of the models that I use, I mentioned
• 24:59
  the rhetorical triangle, is Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, which is a very,
• 25:03
  again, it's a very old ancient model that people still use to this day.
• 25:07
  And it sort of looks at the different categories of needs that human beings
• 25:10
  have, right from physiological, so things like you know, safety,
• 25:13
  food, hunger, things like that to the top of the pyramid, which
• 25:17
  is all about self-actualization and reaching your potential.
• 25:20
  Human beings will still have, we do still have these needs.
• 25:25
  So people need to speak to those needs, but certain people are not doing that.
• 25:31
  They're just not doing that.
• 25:32
  It's just regurgitated text.
• 25:35
  But if you know your ideal client, if you have that ruthless clarity about
• 25:39
  your ideal client and what keeps them awake at 3:00 AM in the morning, whether
• 25:44
  it's how long can I keep this going?
• 25:46
  How long can I keep juggling elderly parents, young children,
• 25:50
  and a boss that's so demanding?
• 25:53
  Hey, I can't speak to that.
• 25:56
  So we need more content that speaks to real life situations.
• 26:02
  That's what resonates, that's what's real.
• 26:04
  Absolutely.
• 26:07
  Ooh, Lola.
• 26:07
  We have to have a round two of this.
• 26:09
  A part two of this because I'm like, at our time.
• 26:12
  And so, for people who are listening to this later or viewing this later, if
• 26:17
  they wanna speak with you and find out how they can better their messaging.
• 26:22
  And reach the people who they are created to reach and impact.
• 26:27
  How can they get in touch with you?
• 26:29
  Well, I'd love for anyone watching this who wants to learn more about
• 26:32
  positioning and messaging to get in touch with me via LinkedIn.
• 26:35
  So Lola Bailey, LinkedIn and you'll see my headline it says Ghost
• 26:38
  Writer and Messaging strategist.
• 26:40
  I am also launching a free newsletter soon, which is going to be about all
• 26:45
  things messaging and positioning.
• 26:47
  'cause there's such a need out there.
• 26:49
  And that's the reason why I decided to start launch like a free newsletter
• 26:52
  where I'll be teaching people some of the secrets that I've gained over
• 26:56
  the 15 years about messaging so that they can just apply that to their own
• 27:01
  businesses and start experiencing much better results from their content.
• 27:04
  So that's how people can get in touch with me.
• 27:07
  All right then, do you have a website?
• 27:10
  Yeah, but it's, I don't wanna use it.
• 27:11
  It's write-upcommunications.co.uk, but it needs updating, but you can
• 27:14
  go on there as well, if you like.
• 27:16
  But a lot of what I do, what's on my website is on LinkedIn.
• 27:20
  And more on LinkedIn.
• 27:21
  Okay.
• 27:22
  But, the email newsletter, which I'm gonna be starting very, very soon, is going
• 27:26
  to be another way people can reach me as well, of course, free if they want to.
• 27:31
  I love it.
• 27:32
  Love it.
• 27:34
  Wow.
• 27:34
  And for those of you who are listening or viewing this later,
• 27:38
  as you can see, I always have the best when I come to my guests.
• 27:42
  Lola has been one of them, so if you'd like to be a guest on my show, you
• 27:47
  can reach out to me on my website, which is chattingwiththeexperts.com.
• 27:52
  I'm also on LinkedIn.
• 27:54
  Oh my gosh, if LinkedIn had to pay me for saying this, I love
• 27:57
  LinkedIn, but they don't pay me.
• 28:00
  Let's be clear about that talking about clarity . I'm
• 28:03
  on LinkedIn as Paula Okonneh.
• 28:05
  I'm also on Instagram, and I handle this at chat_experts_podcast and I'm on
• 28:16
  Facebook, more so now than ever before.
• 28:19
  Just look for me under Paula or I do have a business page Chatting with the Experts.
• 28:25
  And we are also now very much on YouTube.
• 28:28
  I have a channel there, Chatting with the Experts.
• 28:31
  And so, oh my gosh, Lola, this has been so good.
• 28:37
  And, so what I'd like is that for those of you who are in the audience, to stay
• 28:41
  back and ask additional questions because of course I couldn't ask her everything.
• 28:45
  And, before we head over to our audience, Paula, I want to say thank you again
• 28:52
  and can we do a part two at some time?
• 28:55
  At some point?
• 28:55
  Why not?
• 28:56
  Yeah.
• 28:56
  Thank you for having me in advance.
• 29:00
  Thank you.