Latest / Skin Anarchy / Marianne Mychaskiw Freelance Beauty Editor and Copywriter, Senior Copywriter, Scentbird Interview

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Marianne Mychaskiw Freelance Beauty Editor and Copywriter, Senior Copywriter, Scentbird Interview · Skin Anarchy

0:01
SPEAKER_00: Yellow four.
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0:35
SPEAKER_01: Hi guys.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to another episode of Skincare Anarchy.
0:40
SPEAKER_01: I'm back with another amazing guest.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: I want to introduce you guys to Marianne Michowski.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: She is a beauty editor and copywriter.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Marion.
0:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm so, so excited to have you here with us today.
0:52
SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much for having me.
0:54
SPEAKER_04: It is such an honor.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: No, the honor is truly ours.
0:59
SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited you said yes.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: I was like totally, I was messaging you and I was like, I wonder if she'll see this.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: And I was so excited when you said yes.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: So welcome to the show.
1:09
SPEAKER_04: Mary, can you tell us about yourself, your background, your career, everything?
1:13
SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
1:14
SPEAKER_04: So um, gosh, I grew up in Mississippi and I'm half Filipino.
1:19
SPEAKER_04: So growing up in Mississippi and then also just like being surrounded by the media that I was surrounded by.
1:24
SPEAKER_04: I didn't really see myself reflected in those magazines, but beauty was always a place that I loved.
1:31
SPEAKER_04: I thrived in it.
1:32
SPEAKER_04: I was constantly getting kicked out of my classroom for like pulling out my compact and getting yelled at by my teachers.
1:38
SPEAKER_04: Honestly, you're not a baddie unless you've had that happen.
1:41
SPEAKER_04: Unless you've been yelled.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: No, no, I've been there.
1:43
SPEAKER_01: I've been there.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: Lip gloss.
1:46
SPEAKER_04: So I was very much a beauty girl from the jump.
1:49
SPEAKER_04: I think it's just such a world where everybody can feel empowered and feel good.
1:54
SPEAKER_04: And I'm such a believer in like when you feel like you look your best, you feel like you can conquer the world and it's yours for the taking, right?
2:01
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
2:02
SPEAKER_04: So I went on through life.
2:03
SPEAKER_04: I went through like five minutes of my life where I wanted to be a Broadway actress, which I can't sing and I can't memorize lines, so whatever.
2:11
SPEAKER_04: But I came out to college here at St.
2:14
SPEAKER_04: John's out in Queens, and I started studying journalism.
2:18
SPEAKER_04: And at the time I didn't really know if I wanted to go into straight-up journalism or PR or just general communications, because it was all kind of a new world to me.
2:29
SPEAKER_04: And I thought that the idea of like starting in journalism meant, oh, I have to do this hard-hitting news, which people that do that are so talented, I could never.
2:37
SPEAKER_04: But then it was when I started interning within magazines that I hit my stride.
2:42
SPEAKER_04: And I didn't even know that being a beauty editor was a career that I could have until I went under April Franzino's wing at Good Housekeeping.
2:52
SPEAKER_04: I was one of their beauty interns there.
2:54
SPEAKER_04: And from that moment, I was like, that's it.
2:56
SPEAKER_04: This is what I want to do.
2:57
SPEAKER_04: You know, beauty girl from the jump.
2:59
SPEAKER_04: And from there I started interning at different publications.
3:03
SPEAKER_04: I was at realbeauty.com, another Hearst property, which rest in peace.
3:08
SPEAKER_04: It holds a special place in my heart, but it doesn't exist anymore.
3:11
SPEAKER_04: And then from there, right after graduation, I landed a beauty internship at InStyle.
3:17
SPEAKER_04: So it was for the web.
3:19
SPEAKER_04: And at the time the web was very new to everybody.
3:23
SPEAKER_04: It was, I think, God, like 2009-2010, when people still kind of thought of magazines as I mean, magazines are always like king, please, I will die for magazines.
3:34
SPEAKER_04: But at the time they kind of thought of web as just an afterthought where you kind of promote additional content, and that was that.
3:41
SPEAKER_04: But I was at a very interesting time because that was when social media and things were getting started.
3:46
SPEAKER_04: Like YouTube was just becoming a thing.
3:48
SPEAKER_04: Instagram, if you can believe it, hadn't even really started yet.
3:52
SPEAKER_04: So we kind of um we sort of found little places to promote beauty content and make beauty its own thing on the web.
4:01
SPEAKER_04: And as the internet grew and evolved, so I held on for dear life and I had wonderful, wonderful mentors and editors there who I mean, I guess like decided to take a chance on a little girl from Mississippi.
4:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that's amazing.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
4:17
SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
4:18
SPEAKER_04: And yeah, so I um I started being like a freelance editor for them, and then I got the title of beauty assistant, then assistant beauty editor, associate beauty editor, and so on and so forth.
4:30
SPEAKER_04: I was there for girl seven years, and that is a Van Wilder career.
4:35
SPEAKER_04: I was so honored to have been there, and you know, I I was very I believed in the brand and I loved it so much.
4:42
SPEAKER_04: Um, at my seven-year mark, I wanted to explore what else was out there.
4:46
SPEAKER_04: One of my colleagues, Cheryl George, I look up to her so much.
4:50
SPEAKER_04: She was a beauty editor when I was there, and you know, we kind of had similar beginnings.
4:56
SPEAKER_04: She also started as an intern, and I would like lock myself in her office and just ask her for all of her advice.
5:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:03
SPEAKER_04: Around that time, she had left to go to Peach and Lily.
5:06
SPEAKER_04: She was one of their copywriters there.
5:09
SPEAKER_04: And um creating digital content for them.
5:11
SPEAKER_04: And I don't know, I felt like I at the time there wasn't really much more growth that could be done at InStyle, and I didn't see any other jobs within editorial.
5:22
SPEAKER_04: I would have loved to stay, but the opportunities just kind of weren't open at the time.
5:27
SPEAKER_04: So I was like, okay, well, I've been here seven years.
5:30
SPEAKER_04: I had a meeting with Cheryl and she was talking to me about how brand is this whole new world that people are getting into, and brands are seeing the need to have more editorialized content and having somebody come in there with an editorial eye to speak to the audience in a different way.
5:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:46
SPEAKER_04: I started interviewing at different brands just to keep my options open, and I eventually landed a great position, a digital editorial copywriter at Tart Cosmetics, which was yeah, it was so much fun.
5:57
SPEAKER_04: I helped to launch their Tartlet Edit um vertical, which was all of their tutorials and content pieces.
6:04
SPEAKER_04: But I was learning very much about what it was like to speak on behalf of a brand, like from the copy standpoint.
6:10
SPEAKER_04: Very like Peggy Olsen madmen situation where you were like naming products.
6:16
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, I'm obsessed with madmen.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
6:21
SPEAKER_01: I love madmen so much.
6:23
SPEAKER_01: I've seen it three times.
6:24
SPEAKER_01: I've seen the whole series three times.
6:26
SPEAKER_04: I mean, it's the best, and it's best to watch it right now.
6:29
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I have like this whole love letter to Pete Campbell.
6:31
SPEAKER_04: I can't even talk about it.
6:33
SPEAKER_04: I think that like everyone wants to be Don.
6:36
SPEAKER_04: Not everyone can be Don.
6:38
SPEAKER_04: We're all Pete.
6:39
SPEAKER_04: Like, can I curse on the Yeah, of course.
6:42
SPEAKER_04: Like, okay, whatever.
6:43
SPEAKER_04: Like, I'm a piece of shit.
6:44
SPEAKER_04: Like Pete.
6:45
SPEAKER_04: And we all should just own that, live in our peatness.
6:48
SPEAKER_04: And it's that is an aside.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: No, I know.
6:53
SPEAKER_01: Pete was so like such a real character.
6:55
SPEAKER_01: I loved him.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: I completely, completely agree with you.
6:58
SPEAKER_05: A very, very relatable, like and he just throws like temper tantrums, like we all want to, but I don't have the gall, but whatever.
7:07
SPEAKER_04: I was doing a lot of Peggy Olsen-ish things, which was very cool to see like copy I had worked on come to life in the form of like a bigger campaign, whether it be through email or you know, social media marketing and paid ads.
7:21
SPEAKER_04: I like learned the art of the paid ad.
7:23
SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, those Facebook things where you're like, oh my god, I was just talking about Tarte Shape tape.
7:28
SPEAKER_04: Were they listening to me?
7:29
SPEAKER_04: I would recommend for those.
7:30
SPEAKER_04: And that was a lot of fun.
7:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, I ended up such an iconic product, like the shape tape.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
7:37
SPEAKER_04: It was good.
7:38
SPEAKER_04: And we also, I was like dipping my toe into skincare.
7:41
SPEAKER_04: Um, they were launching a new skincare brand at the time called Awake, which was one of their sister brands through their parent company.
7:50
SPEAKER_04: I I mean it was like a crash course.
7:51
SPEAKER_04: And I had the best boss, Stephanie Urban, who I mean, I still look up to her to this day.
7:56
SPEAKER_04: She's at Peach and Lily now.
7:57
SPEAKER_04: It's a great company, clearly.
7:59
SPEAKER_04: They're getting a lot of talent.
8:00
SPEAKER_04: But yeah, I mean, Tart held a very special place in my heart.
8:04
SPEAKER_04: Um, a few months shy or a month or so shy of my one year anniversary, I went to work at Pat McGrath as one of their copywriters.
8:12
SPEAKER_04: Um You're killing me here.
8:16
SPEAKER_01: Pat is like my icon.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: My I look up to Pat's makeup, oh my gosh, I can't.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I worship the ground that she walks on, but unfortunately, unfortunately, I was let go.
8:27
SPEAKER_04: Oh, I was let go.
8:29
SPEAKER_04: I mean, to be completely honest, I wasn't totally happy and I was thinking of freelancing and stuff.
8:34
SPEAKER_04: So when I was let go, it was like, okay, well, I have this like six severance.
8:38
SPEAKER_04: I've been wanting to get back into edit.
8:40
SPEAKER_04: Like, I missed home, clearly.
8:43
SPEAKER_04: I missed home and I wanted to get back into it.
8:45
SPEAKER_04: So I reached out to some of my friends that were still editors.
8:48
SPEAKER_04: I started submitting work for them and just trying to.
8:51
SPEAKER_04: I was also doing brand work at the time.
8:52
SPEAKER_04: So it was cool to have that brand experience and be able to freelance in that world while also still being very much in the world that I started in that I considered my first home.
9:03
SPEAKER_04: So after a few months of that, um Scentbird approached me and they were looking for a senior copywriter.
9:09
SPEAKER_04: Um, not I'm saying I'm a lot, I'm sorry.
9:12
SPEAKER_04: Feel free to just like edit me.
9:13
SPEAKER_04: Oh no, no.
9:14
SPEAKER_04: No, you're good.
9:16
SPEAKER_04: But yeah, they approached me looking for a senior copywriter.
9:20
SPEAKER_04: Scentbird is a very interesting startup because their their bread and butter basically is the fragrance subscription platform.
9:27
SPEAKER_04: So you get a vial of fragrance for$14.95 a month.
9:31
SPEAKER_04: It's supposed to last you about 30 days.
9:33
SPEAKER_04: Then by the time that is done, you get a new one.
9:35
SPEAKER_04: So you get to discover or rediscover new scents.
9:38
SPEAKER_04: I actually wrote about them back when they launched when I was at InStyle.
9:42
SPEAKER_04: So it was a very cool circle moment for me to end up working there.
9:46
SPEAKER_04: They were launching a new brand called Good Habit, which I was taken immediately with the meeting that I had with my boss, and she was telling me about it.
9:54
SPEAKER_04: Basically, the whole idea behind Good Habit is that blue light is a very new thing that impacts us through our computer screens or our cell phones or even our TVs and smartwatches in very low doses.
10:08
SPEAKER_04: But the idea is that blue um blue light, they have developed this skincare technology called Blue Five, which helps to neutralize the effects of blue light while also reversing the existing damage in like five different ways.
10:22
SPEAKER_04: So it helps with skin texture, it helps with hyperpigmentation caused by blue light or UV, what have you.
10:29
SPEAKER_04: And I just thought it was a very cool experience to be able to launch a brand from the ground up.
10:34
SPEAKER_04: So you're like building the verbiage, you are deciding how you're going to talk to that consumer.
10:39
SPEAKER_04: You're doing even the little things like the copy on the packaging, like how you use it.
10:44
SPEAKER_04: And it was a very cool opportunity to shape that voice, shape that verbiage, and also speak to the consumer in the way that I wanted to be spoken to.
10:53
SPEAKER_04: It was a very tech-forward science-y line.
10:57
SPEAKER_04: So it's important to convey that in a way that you know isn't talking down to the consumer first of all, because I think the skincare consumer is super, super intelligent and they're very savvy when it comes to ingredients.
11:10
SPEAKER_04: And the whole idea behind this one was the ingredients are all clean, right?
11:15
SPEAKER_04: So as far as like skin safe synthetics that have been vigorously tested, as well as naturally based things.
11:21
SPEAKER_04: So it was a nice balance with that.
11:23
SPEAKER_04: We're live.
11:24
SPEAKER_04: We launched in the middle of the pandemic, and I think we've been doing pretty well so far, considering that we are in this hot mess that is 2020.
11:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I actually like there were um someone told me the stats of how skincare is actually doing a lot better right now because of everyone being locked up, basically.
11:43
SPEAKER_01: And we all want self-care.
11:45
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it kind of goes hand in hand.
11:47
SPEAKER_01: And I think that there's this is the optimal time to bring out like you know, what you're what you just described, new technologies, you know what I mean, like new ways to take care of your skin.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: So this is really, really cool.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: Like, I I love that.
12:00
SPEAKER_04: Oh, thanks.
12:00
SPEAKER_04: And yeah, I feel like I'm so aligned with that.
12:03
SPEAKER_04: I have been just into every single product in my medicine cabinet.
12:07
SPEAKER_04: I'm the queen of maskney right now, like, forget it.
12:10
SPEAKER_04: So she needs to take care of that.
12:12
SPEAKER_04: And yeah, I feel like I love beauty, I love hair, I love makeup, but skincare is really it's always been just sort of a zen-like activity where I can unplug from the day and just have a moment to myself when I'm using like my facial rollers and all of these devices, or if I just need to take a minute and do a mask.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: No, I get it.
12:34
SPEAKER_01: I'm the same way.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: I feel like at the end of the day, when you have, you know, done everything you need to do, like skincare is that little moment for yourself where it's like, oh, you know, you can rest.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah.
12:47
SPEAKER_01: So how do you feel about um like self-care being incorporated more into skincare?
12:52
SPEAKER_01: Because what I mean by that is like, you know, like all these meditation apps that are out right now, and like, you know what I mean?
12:57
SPEAKER_01: Like just like making that a part of skincare.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: Because I would love to see companies partner up with like, you know what I mean, like uh headspace or you know, yeah, like that kind of stuff.
13:08
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I feel like skincare and self-care are very much intertwined, at least for me, because I mean, whenever I'm doing my skincare routine and I'm having my moment to myself, I'll definitely play a podcast and just sort of to get out of that workday headspace because I do a lot of freelance stuff too in edit and branded content, which I think is the future, by the way.
13:30
SPEAKER_04: But um, I will have these long days.
13:32
SPEAKER_04: So having skincare and my self-care routine just separate from all that, it's a way to separate myself from like the work that is on my laptop because I'm home.
13:42
SPEAKER_04: There really isn't a separation apart from that.
13:44
SPEAKER_04: So it's nice to just unwind in that way.
13:47
SPEAKER_04: And you see a lot of brands doing it in a very clever way, like partnering with CBD brands or just taking over like an overall wellness approach with their branded content.
13:58
SPEAKER_04: And yeah, I think the worlds are very much intertwined.
14:01
SPEAKER_04: And I think that, like, you know, skincare is self-care.
14:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking for self.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: And I think that, you know, like the stuff I'm seeing come out now is very like, you know, it's minimalistic, but it's like multi-use products.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: So, how do you feel about the multi-use product stuff?
14:20
SPEAKER_01: Like, um, you know, like multitasking kind of thing.
14:24
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I'm down for it as long as I'm not doing too too too much to my skin.
14:29
SPEAKER_04: I think like a product that does a ton of heavy lifting, cool.
14:31
SPEAKER_04: I am down because I'm lazy and I want to do less at all times.
14:35
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, same.
14:37
SPEAKER_04: I know.
14:38
SPEAKER_04: I've learned the hard way that when I tried to just like throw too much at my skin, it reacts in different ways.
14:43
SPEAKER_04: I very much had this idea like, okay, my skin's being bad and I'm having these breakouts, so I'm gonna punish it for being bad when it's really like, no, girl, take a step back.
14:52
SPEAKER_04: Like, you don't need that much.
14:54
SPEAKER_04: Do a retinol, do a vitamin C serum, spot treatment if you need it.
14:58
SPEAKER_04: And also, like, yeah, I need to not pick up my skin, but that's like another thing.
15:02
SPEAKER_04: So don't be mean to it in that way.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I think that, you know, it's interesting to me because a lot of these um multi-use products are very, very like intriguing because I think they're um, you know, I think companies are finally doing them right.
15:18
SPEAKER_01: I think that, you know, a year or two ago, there were a lot of things out there that were supposed to be multi-use, but like I would never see any kind of change in my skin.
15:26
SPEAKER_01: And I would be like, am I, I mean, are any of the actives actually active?
15:31
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know what I mean?
15:32
SPEAKER_01: So, like, but now I, you know, I I was talking to Divya from Wonder Beauty, and she was talking about how her whole line is about, you know, this this um products for busy women, you know, that are on the go all the time.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: And I absolutely loved that because it's like, you know, I would love to be able to pop in one thing in my bag and be like, okay, this is it, this is all I need.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: So that's why I bring that up.
15:54
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, that's that's amazing.
15:56
SPEAKER_01: You have such an awesome career journey.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: That's so cool that you work for so many amazing, you know, uh brands and like you know, publications.
16:03
SPEAKER_01: That's really, really cool.
16:04
SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much.
16:05
SPEAKER_04: That's so sweet of you to say.
16:06
SPEAKER_04: Sometimes I do get in my head and I have this weird imposter syndrome, like, oh, I'm not doing enough.
16:10
SPEAKER_04: So that's very sweet of you to say.
16:13
SPEAKER_01: I think every like career-driven person is like that, though.
16:16
SPEAKER_01: Seriously, like I do that every day, and I'm like, why am I not doing this?
16:19
SPEAKER_01: There's this one, like, I don't know if you heard about this one guy.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: He was like, I think he was um Korean, I'm not sure, but he was a doctor and like he is an astronaut.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: And I just like you for ruining everyone else's life.
16:36
SPEAKER_01: I know.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: So my parents are gonna be like, why aren't you an astronaut yet?
16:41
SPEAKER_04: I know, but mom is like, he can do both.
16:44
SPEAKER_04: Like you can still be a doctor.
16:45
SPEAKER_04: There's time he made time when he was already an astronaut.
16:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, we're not all superhumans.
16:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: I know.
16:54
SPEAKER_01: I'm just doing but yeah, just shifting here a little bit.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: So what do you look for when you're when you're looking at, you know, writing about a brand or writing about something that you really, really like?
17:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, what are some of the things that you look for?
17:08
SPEAKER_01: In a product or just like Yeah, like in a product or in even in like a brand's like um background, you know what I mean?
17:14
SPEAKER_01: Like the brand journey or like whatever.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: Like what intrigues you?
17:17
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you can come up with you know, whatever recent example you have in your mind.
17:21
SPEAKER_04: Totally.
17:22
SPEAKER_04: I mean, when I sometimes like the brand story and how they got to be there is just really fascinating to me.
17:28
SPEAKER_04: I am fascinated by ingredients.
17:30
SPEAKER_04: I am the biggest nerd, and I will there's so much science that goes into skincare, right?
17:34
SPEAKER_04: So I will just like dive into each and every one.
17:37
SPEAKER_04: And if there's something new, like one thing that I remember that I thought was so cool, like SK2 tells this story over and over about how they isolated their patera ingredient, right?
17:48
SPEAKER_04: And this came to be because all of these people who worked at a sake brewery, they were very elderly, but their hands were like super, super youthful, and they were like, what is it about the sake that is making their hands look so youthful?
18:04
SPEAKER_04: They isolated the patera ingredient within the sake, and the rest is history.
18:09
SPEAKER_04: And I like wow, I totally abide by it.
18:12
SPEAKER_04: I slap that stuff on my face every single night, and I think something like that is always interesting to me.
18:18
SPEAKER_01: And that is so cool.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: What what is this brand?
18:20
SPEAKER_01: I have never heard of it.
18:21
SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh, SK2.
18:22
SPEAKER_04: I like worship at their oh, SK2, yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:25
SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay.
18:26
SPEAKER_04: Yes, yes, it's yeah, and also like yeah, I think that it just is it shows that their products actually do something and they put it's very thoughtful formulas that they create.
18:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like you know, you're really kind of like I love that when brands find this like one thing they know works and they kind of feature it, you know what I mean, and in a wonderful formulation.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, one one thing I do wonder about, because you know, with my background, like I you know, I'm a South Asian woman, and you know, there's a lot of Ayurveda that comes up, you know, in the South Asian community, and like a lot of South Asian brands actually go towards Ayurveda.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, one thing that comes up for me is the regulation of these ingredients, right?
19:10
SPEAKER_01: So it's like, um, do you ever like consider that when you're writing?
19:14
SPEAKER_01: Like, do you ever ask brands like, well, hey, how did you formulate this?
19:18
SPEAKER_01: Or like, you know, um, how is this regulated or anything like that?
19:22
SPEAKER_04: Sort of.
19:23
SPEAKER_04: I feel like regulation is sort of definitely a great area for clean beauty in particular, because that's one area where I've had to face it head on when I was writing about these clean formulas that Good Habit was doing.
19:35
SPEAKER_04: It's like, okay, well, I guess in the US, there are only what 11 ingredients that are regulated in cosmetics or skincare.
19:44
SPEAKER_04: Whereas in the EU, the list is like thousands long.
19:49
SPEAKER_04: So it's like the consumer has to be really, really conscious and take it upon themselves.
19:53
SPEAKER_04: And that's why skincare consumers are just like low-key scientists and the smartest people ever.
19:58
SPEAKER_04: But the onus is kind of on us to make sure that these things are clean and we won't have a weird reaction.
20:04
SPEAKER_04: And there isn't one definition as far as like what clean actually means.
20:09
SPEAKER_04: So that was something that I definitely encountered.
20:12
SPEAKER_04: And I feel like relaying all of that info, like cross-checking it with the EU list and making sure that everything was all good there.
20:20
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
20:21
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I kind of just had to like do a lot of the research myself.
20:25
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, yeah.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: And that's another thing that really kind of um is interesting with the editorial world, is that I know a lot of you know, editors and uh copywriters, you guys have to kind of go out there and find your own information and you have to like, you know, reach out for those missing pieces, right?
20:41
SPEAKER_01: When you're writing a story or like you're writing a piece, because I I don't I don't know how it works because the dermatologists are kind of in the dermatology community right now, and then there's the editors and then there's the brands.
20:53
SPEAKER_01: That's how I'm looking at it.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: So is that uh accurate representation, or do you think there's a lot of intermingling going on?
20:59
SPEAKER_04: Sort of.
20:59
SPEAKER_04: I mean, when it comes to finding out what's in ingredient, like ingredient stuff, um, I feel like I'm reaching out to cosmetic chemists a lot and being like, hey, is this is what they're telling me real or is it bullshit?
21:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
21:14
SPEAKER_04: Because that's important.
21:15
SPEAKER_02: That's an important question.
21:16
SPEAKER_04: Like sometimes people will make all of these claims and like they can't deliver on the promises, and that sucks.
21:22
SPEAKER_04: So I want to make sure there is always a lot of information that you get as a journalist from a press release, and then the press, like all of the press that I work with, they're wonderful, and they always get my questions answered whenever I need like an expert to comment on it, or you know, one of their in-house germs or something to explain something a little bit more for me.
21:42
SPEAKER_04: But especially for a lot of the branded content pieces that I've been working on, I always reach out to a cosmetic chemist.
21:49
SPEAKER_04: Her name is Ginger, and she's wonderful, and she will set the record straight when it comes to like whether an ingredient is legit or not, because she just she knows everything.
21:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: And that's amazing.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: I love that the chemists are, you know, more on the front lines.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: I mean, chemistry is such a hard subject too.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: I remember when I used to take it in pre-med.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
22:12
SPEAKER_01: I have so much respect for chemists, seriously, because it's it's a very, very complex area of science.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: And you know, um, having their input is is just amazing, you know.
22:20
SPEAKER_01: So I can imagine.
22:22
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I furthest I made with chemistry was like high school, and I remember the teacher made me sit at the front of the classroom because he was like, Look, you need to like understand these formulas, and I clearly did not.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, no, I remember high school.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: High school chemistry was like a nightmare.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: It was so, so yeah.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: No, but I mean, honestly, the reason I'm even um bringing this up is because like my goal, honestly, with skincare anarchy is to like get all of these, you know, um perspectives from everybody really that's involved in skincare right now.
22:54
SPEAKER_01: Because I think we all need to sit down at the table and be like, let's all talk and kind of come up with what the best protocol can be in terms of hey, you know, um, how do we formulate this new thing that we want to make in the market?
23:09
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
23:09
SPEAKER_01: That kind of thing.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: So so I I really like that that you go to chemists and you go straight to the source.
23:14
SPEAKER_01: So um tell me more about what you're loving right now in skincare.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: Like what is your routine right now?
23:20
SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh, what's my skincare routine?
23:22
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
23:23
SPEAKER_04: I'm loving, um, I have like a routine for day and then a routine for night, which some of the products do have some overlap.
23:30
SPEAKER_04: But yeah, I think that quarantine has sort of forced me to pair things down because as a beauty writer, you are you get such a bounty of products and you're excited by them all and you want to try them all, but then my skin would react in such crazy ways when I was throwing too much at it.
23:46
SPEAKER_04: So my routine as it stands is like I wash my face in the morning with a Dr.
23:52
SPEAKER_04: Loretta gel face wash.
23:54
SPEAKER_04: I love her stuff.
23:54
SPEAKER_04: Then I follow it up with um, I like that brand I Do Care by Mimi Ball.
24:00
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so I like their vitamin C moisturizer, it's like a gel, and then I top that off with an LMS Pro Collagen facial cream.
24:09
SPEAKER_04: And there's like lots of antioxidants in that.
24:12
SPEAKER_04: The way that one of the dermatologists, Dr.
24:14
SPEAKER_04: James Wang, told me, he's like, when you are putting on your skincare for the day, you're like gearing up for battle, and you want to like defend your skin from all of the free radicals and things that could fly your way.
24:25
SPEAKER_04: So that is my antioxidant situation.
24:29
SPEAKER_04: I do some eye cream that is very recent.
24:31
SPEAKER_04: I um I'm a very bad beauty editor and that I haven't started using eye cream until very recently, but doing it now.
24:38
SPEAKER_04: And that is also by Dr.
24:39
SPEAKER_04: Loretta, it's a firming eye gel.
24:42
SPEAKER_04: And then on top of that, I finished it off with a Dr.
24:44
SPEAKER_04: Loretta SPF because I work next to a window.
24:48
SPEAKER_04: I still need to use SPF because I'm not going outside.
24:53
SPEAKER_04: And I think the Dr.
24:54
SPEAKER_04: Loretta formula is very thoughtful as well because it also protects against pollution, which is very much a thing here in New York.
25:01
SPEAKER_04: And then it has HEV shielding ingredients, like minerals and stuff in it.
25:06
SPEAKER_04: So that's my daytime.
25:07
SPEAKER_04: Sometimes I'll do a little bit more, a little bit less with like spot treatment, and but that's usually at night, so I'll talk you through that.
25:15
SPEAKER_04: I do um the same facial cleanser at night.
25:18
SPEAKER_04: I do a Peter Thomas Roth toner.
25:21
SPEAKER_04: It's uh I have to get the exact name for you, but it's like an acne situation because I still break out like I'm 15.
25:27
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: Peter Thomas Roth, I kid you not, Marion, save my skin.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: Really?
25:32
SPEAKER_01: Like I yeah, because like you know, when we were teenagers, we have the acne and all that stuff, and then it goes away, but then you get this adult acne problem.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, when I started having that, I started using his um his uh cleanser.
25:46
SPEAKER_01: I forget, uh I forget the name.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: I think it was the glycolic cleanser or the baby beta hydroxy cleanser, and it was a miracle product.
25:56
SPEAKER_01: I'm not even lying.
25:57
SPEAKER_01: Like that that product is the reason now I don't even break out.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: It's like long-term effects, kind of.
26:02
SPEAKER_04: I need it.
26:03
SPEAKER_04: I need it.
26:04
SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.
26:05
SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: All of his products are amazing.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: Like, I just I don't think I've ever tried a Peter Tomstroth product and not loved it.
26:11
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and exactly.
26:12
SPEAKER_04: It's like one of those brands that's very well researched.
26:14
SPEAKER_04: All of the ingredients have a lot of thought in it.
26:16
SPEAKER_04: So it's like I trust whatever they're putting out.
26:19
SPEAKER_04: But yeah, that toner, I should use that cleanser that you mentioned because I still get those hormonal breakouts.
26:25
SPEAKER_04: But after the uh toner, right?
26:28
SPEAKER_04: After the toner, I do another I do care vitamin C serum.
26:32
SPEAKER_04: I use a retinol by Overt.
26:34
SPEAKER_04: It's I'm obsessed with this retinol.
26:36
SPEAKER_04: Like I love retinol, but I feel like they're the one-two punch for my acne and also for like I've got an extreme Dorian gray complex that I don't want to age quite so quickly.
26:47
SPEAKER_04: But the retinol, it has um hyaluronic acid and jojoba in it.
26:52
SPEAKER_04: So I didn't have like that aggressive, peeling, purging situation that I did with other retinols.
26:58
SPEAKER_04: And I love it.
26:59
SPEAKER_04: I'm like running out and I'm crying.
27:01
SPEAKER_04: I'm so sad that I'm running out.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: But I'm actually going to be interviewing overt CEO.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: So I will let them know.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: I'll let them know that you're a huge, huge fan.
27:11
SPEAKER_04: And but yeah, I had I use their retinol, then I top it off again with the LMS that I mentioned earlier, the eye cream I mentioned earlier.
27:20
SPEAKER_04: And sometimes if I like my skin needs it, I do a Renee Rillot spot treatment.
27:25
SPEAKER_04: It's her, I think it's her anti-cis treatment.
27:28
SPEAKER_04: I think she just renamed it, but that's one that I've loved for years and years because it's a lactic acid-based spot treatment.
27:35
SPEAKER_04: So I get those obnoxious, soul crushing under-the-skin bumps that take forever to come to a head and then they're just painful.
27:42
SPEAKER_04: And sometimes you want to pick at it, but you can't, and whatever.
27:46
SPEAKER_04: So, this treatment, because of the lactic acid, it delivers the formula at a deeper level that can actually kill the bump underneath your skin, but also it works on surface breakouts.
27:56
SPEAKER_04: So anything I would theoretically put salicylic acid on, I could use that and be just fine.
28:01
SPEAKER_04: I put my brother on to her stuff too, because we have the same kind of skin.
28:05
SPEAKER_04: He breaks out like I do.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, I did the same with mine.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna try skincare.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you need to put on Tatcha's moisturizer.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: You need to be like, I had a whole seven-step routine.
28:18
SPEAKER_04: It's like bring the men into this situation, like you know, like oh my god, no, the old spice copy tagline was so clever to me.
28:27
SPEAKER_04: And men had skin too, and I was just screaming at that because I was like, it's true, you guys should take it.
28:32
SPEAKER_04: And it's the same thing with my fiance.
28:34
SPEAKER_04: He um he has dry skin.
28:36
SPEAKER_04: So I was like, dude, use hyaluronic acid.
28:38
SPEAKER_04: I swear to god, it's gonna fix everything.
28:40
SPEAKER_04: And I scream at him all the time.
28:41
SPEAKER_04: I'm like, you need to wear a sunscreen, you need to wear sunscreen, so but I'm not going outside.
28:46
SPEAKER_04: You work by a window, please.
28:48
SPEAKER_01: No, honestly, sunscreen is for everybody, and I think that men really need to understand that it's not skincare like makeup, it's a thing for you know, skin health.
28:59
SPEAKER_01: So that's really, really important.
29:01
SPEAKER_01: And I love that, you know, have you been seeing all these like male, like friendly lines coming up?
29:06
SPEAKER_01: Because I'm so excited about them.
29:08
SPEAKER_01: Like, there's there's this, there's this one line, I forget um the name right now, but like it's geared towards men and especially men of um of color because their beards are such like you know, it's such a problem with the beard, the ingram hairs and stuff.
29:24
SPEAKER_04: I saw that and like the hyperpigmentation that we have, you know, it's it's a lot, and I feel like, yeah, it's good that men are getting their moment to have skincare lines made for them.
29:36
SPEAKER_04: But also, like, I don't know, my fiance will use my LaMaire without question.
29:40
SPEAKER_03: Like, don't take too much out, don't dig your finger in that deep, it's expensive.
29:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I know.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: And I still love LaMaire, honestly.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: Everyone's been like like dogging La Mer.
29:52
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, what?
29:53
SPEAKER_01: Like I know I'm obsessed with La Mera.
29:56
SPEAKER_02: What are you talking about?
29:58
SPEAKER_02: That's like saying, I don't know, like that's like saying I don't like oil of a lay.
30:03
SPEAKER_02: Like that's like telling me you don't like Madonna.
30:06
SPEAKER_02: Like, how can you not a classic?
30:09
SPEAKER_02: Who are you?
30:11
SPEAKER_01: Totally, totally, totally agree with that.
30:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I know I La Maire's gotten so much like backlash, and I I really did not like seeing that when I was it was like a thing on Facebook Instagram.
30:21
SPEAKER_01: I was like, please, I'm still gonna use La Maire and I'm still gonna love it.
30:25
SPEAKER_03: Okay, like if whatever, if they had it, they would like it.
30:27
SPEAKER_03: It's just because they don't whatever.
30:29
SPEAKER_01: It's yeah, it's it's whatever, right?
30:31
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: No, that's my my feelings exactly.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: I, you know, but um, yeah, so I'm actually really curious because I want your advice for all the brands out there that are listening, um, brand founders that are like starting their own line, um, from an editor's point of view.
30:46
SPEAKER_01: Any advice you have for them in terms of getting noticed in the press or like, you know, um, you know, just anything really.
30:54
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, tell me a story I haven't heard before.
30:57
SPEAKER_04: I feel like there are a lot of eye creams that kind of do the same thing, and it's like what differentiates one from another, and whether it's like bigging up a specific ingredient that not a lot of people know about.
31:09
SPEAKER_04: Like I learned a few weeks ago, vitamin K, which is in a lot of eye creams, it's good for specific discoloration that I get under my eyes.
31:16
SPEAKER_04: Like vitamin K in Arnica, like that is a whole story that you should tell.
31:20
SPEAKER_04: Like, figure out cool ways to tell these ingredient stories, but also like I don't know, speak to a wider range of consumers.
31:27
SPEAKER_04: I think that sometimes in beauty there's a very singular idea of what is beautiful.
31:32
SPEAKER_04: And I mean, you get it, I get it.
31:34
SPEAKER_04: I feel like just because we grew up very much not reflected in society and beauty as a whole, like that becomes a push for us personally to showcase that beauty is so vast and varied, and anybody can beautiful, be beautiful, and I can be beautiful, and you can be beautiful, and there's no like one way to do it.
31:56
SPEAKER_04: I feel like right now there's very much talk about diversity within beauty, and like, yeah, cool, I am here for it.
32:03
SPEAKER_04: But also, it's like a lot of people have been making or like make pushing for diversity from it wasn't like this new thing, it wasn't like this, oh my gosh, like diversity is the new thing.
32:16
SPEAKER_04: It's like we've kind of been we've all been wanting that.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: We've all been wanting and see, I love that you said that, honestly, because like the my problem is like as a woman who what you just described, we did not relate to things growing up, you know, we had to figure out our own stuff.
32:32
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I don't feel like there's a lack of diversity.
32:35
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm not gonna sit here and lie about that.
32:37
SPEAKER_01: I don't, I don't feel like I go to a a store nowadays and it's like, oh, I can't find what I need.
32:43
SPEAKER_01: No, I find exactly what I need.
32:45
SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, I I can find that product that works for me.
32:49
SPEAKER_01: So this whole diversity talk is great and it's wonderful and it's progressive, but let's be realistic, right?
32:56
SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, it let's not undo all the good work that so many brands have put in.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: That's where I have a problem, you know, in terms of the conversation around it.
33:06
SPEAKER_04: Totally.
33:06
SPEAKER_04: And it's like, whatever, I have a medium skin tone.
33:10
SPEAKER_04: I am privileged enough that I could probably find foundation in a variety of shades that would fit me.
33:16
SPEAKER_04: But, you know, other people have a harder time.
33:19
SPEAKER_04: And like it goes from the bottom up, right?
33:21
SPEAKER_04: Like you need to hire more people of color, like on your product development teams, on your marketing teams, like yeah, hire people of different backgrounds and they will figure out how to speak to people who relate to them, and then everyone's reflected, and we can all have fun, and we can all have good skin and have fun with beauty because yeah, like beauty should make you feel good.
33:43
SPEAKER_04: Like I said, there's to be beautiful, and this is like one sphere where everybody can belong.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I love you know, I love that you said bring on the experts because you know what I really, really someone who I really admire in terms of her work with expanding ranges is Jackie Ina.
34:02
SPEAKER_01: She oh my gosh, I feel like Jackie did exactly what women of color should be doing.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
34:10
SPEAKER_01: Like she went in and she said, let give me the give me free reign, let me come up with some some you know uh shades that are really going to match darker skin tones, you know?
34:21
SPEAKER_01: And she really went in hard.
34:22
SPEAKER_01: And I love and admire that about her, rather than you know what I mean, because there's so many people that are blasting uh brands on like social media, you know what I mean?
34:31
SPEAKER_01: They're just like, oh, I hate this brand, or you know, boycott drunk elephant because they're blah, blah, blah.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, that's not gonna do anything, guys.
34:37
SPEAKER_01: You know, you gotta you gotta go in, you gotta make a difference.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: And I really love how Jackie approached it.
34:42
SPEAKER_01: It was it was awesome.
34:43
SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh, yeah, she's out there doing God's work.
34:45
SPEAKER_04: And I feel you about like the boycotting thing because sometimes one's something that I read.
34:50
SPEAKER_04: I mean, whatever, I like Taco Bell.
34:51
SPEAKER_04: And I heard that like somebody I in the higher ups of Taco Bell was like donating to Trump or something problematic, and people are like boycott Taco Bell.
35:01
SPEAKER_04: But there was an article that came out, it's like actually when you're boycotting these brands, like you're impacting people who should not be impacted, like the people who work at these stores and are like relying on this to make a livable wage.
35:13
SPEAKER_04: You should be like yelling at the people higher up that are doing the problematic things without having to harm the people that rely on just like a their day job.
35:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's like, you know, they are companies that are providing jobs and opportunities for every single person, you know, and it's like we can't just disregard the entire business aspect of it.
35:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's really, really important.
35:36
SPEAKER_01: Like you said, I mean, you know, yeah, I can be mad at Chick-fil-A all day, but like for not being open on Sundays, which Chick-fil-A, I'm still mad about that.
35:45
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, but at the end of the day, you're hiring, you know, high school students or college students or people that just really need, you know, they need that job to help them pay through school, you know what I mean?
36:00
SPEAKER_04: Like, they're the nicest people ever, so please.
36:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
36:04
SPEAKER_01: What Chick-fil-A?
36:06
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, oh my gosh, always so pleasant.
36:08
SPEAKER_04: And like, I'll be like, Thank you.
36:09
SPEAKER_04: And they're like, it's my pleasure.
36:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, they're so nice.
36:12
SPEAKER_01: I love everything, like I just love their, you know, their food.
36:16
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, why can't we focus on the product rather than the politics?
36:20
SPEAKER_01: Right?
36:21
SPEAKER_04: The product is good, it's like the person doing the problematic shit that needs to be called out.
36:26
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
36:26
SPEAKER_01: Like, it's like no one has time for that, but yeah, anyways, like I don't know how we ended up on fast food.
36:33
SPEAKER_04: I know, don't even talk to me about how, like, oh, what you eat impacts your skin because I am such trash.
36:39
SPEAKER_01: Like, dude, I eat out of a vending machine.
36:42
SPEAKER_01: Like, I hear you.
36:45
SPEAKER_04: Like, I know that is true to an extent.
36:47
SPEAKER_04: I know that glyxation and like sugar impacts your skin, milk impacts your skin, but like you can grab my Jenny's ice cream out of my cold dead hand after I finish the whole pint.
36:58
SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: Right, right, exactly.
37:01
SPEAKER_01: No, I like literally down gelato, like it's like going out of style.
37:04
SPEAKER_01: So I don't want to hear it.
37:05
SPEAKER_05: Like it's self-care, it's self-care.
37:08
SPEAKER_05: It's self-care.
37:09
SPEAKER_01: Yes, thank you.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, please.
37:12
SPEAKER_01: Let's just stick to that.
37:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, no, honestly, it is self-care.
37:15
SPEAKER_01: And I think anything that makes you feel good, do it.
37:18
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's I'm really a huge advocate for that.
37:21
SPEAKER_01: Like, I feel like this whole movement around like body image and all that stuff.
37:24
SPEAKER_01: Like, I really believe in if you just do things that make you feel good, you're gonna feel good wearing clothes too.
37:30
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
37:31
SPEAKER_01: Because you're gonna be happy with yourself.
37:33
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's a very personal journey.
37:35
SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of people want to blame everybody else, but it's a personal journey to start accepting yourself.
37:40
SPEAKER_01: And when it comes to your skin, you have to focus on your skin health, in my opinion.
37:44
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
37:45
SPEAKER_01: Like whatever you need, like you have to focus on that.
37:48
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I feel like skin is such it's like such a thing, it's a front-facing thing that everybody notices first.
37:55
SPEAKER_04: And whenever I have like a cystic breakout on the tip of my nose, well, I mean, not anymore because we're all wearing masks, but in the pre-mask days, I'd be like, everyone's fucking looking at my nose, like everyone's looking at it, and my skin looks good.
38:08
SPEAKER_04: I feel good, and I feel like I'm glowing and no one can tell me shit.
38:12
SPEAKER_04: And I don't know, I like just like every teenager that went through an acne phase that we I guess you and I are still kind of somewhat in.
38:22
SPEAKER_01: And by the way, I'm still mad at my dermatologist who told me this would go away at 18.
38:27
SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm gonna call her and scream at her.
38:31
SPEAKER_01: Like, I remember I was like, she was like, No, when you're 18, everything's gonna go away, and here we are.
38:36
SPEAKER_01: Like, girl, I am 32.
38:39
SPEAKER_01: Same, same, no.
38:40
SPEAKER_04: I feel like when you deal with that when you're young, that totally impacts you, and then you have to shift gears and be like, okay, what am I doing wrong?
38:47
SPEAKER_04: Like, how can I take care of my skin so that's not mad at me all the time?
38:50
SPEAKER_01: And exactly, yeah, it's exactly but you know, and I also want to say this, and I don't know if you agree or not, but like I remember when dermat, like when I first started breaking out as a teenager, right?
39:01
SPEAKER_01: So my both my parents are immigrants and they had no idea what a dermatologist was.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, they they were both they're science people and they're you know, they're busy, they were busy, and they were like, I have no idea what to do for you.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, so I figured out that I need to go to a dermatologist.
39:16
SPEAKER_01: So after going to the derm, I had all these products given to me, and they were actually really harsh for my skin.
39:22
SPEAKER_01: And the no alcohol thing, that's like what I live by at this point.
39:25
SPEAKER_05: So it's self-care, it's self-care.
39:28
SPEAKER_05: My model of mine is self-care and there's veritol, and god damn it, that is good for my skin.
39:34
SPEAKER_01: Everything you know what?
39:35
SPEAKER_01: I think that needs to be our motto.
39:37
SPEAKER_01: It's self-care, damn it.
39:38
SPEAKER_01: It is get away from me.
39:43
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
39:44
SPEAKER_01: Okay, Miriam.
39:44
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so, so, so much for coming onto the show.
39:48
SPEAKER_01: You are so awesome, and I can't wait to have you back.
39:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna invite you back.
39:52
SPEAKER_01: You know that, right?
39:53
SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh, I would be honored, please.
39:55
SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much.
39:56
SPEAKER_04: And I can't wait to hear the rest of your episodes as you're rolling them out.
40:00
SPEAKER_04: You're doing you're doing an amazing job.
40:02
SPEAKER_04: And just thank you.
40:03
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me on.
40:04
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it was my pleasure.
40:06
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
40:06
SPEAKER_01: And everybody out there listening, um, please follow Miriam on uh on you're on Instagram.
40:12
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, can you shout out your uh handle, Marion?
40:16
SPEAKER_04: It is long and complicated, but it's M-A-R-I-A-N-N-E-M-Y-C-H-A-S-K-I-W.
40:23
SPEAKER_04: All one cheerleader moments.
40:27
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
40:28
SPEAKER_03: Like I aspire to be the coolest cheerleader in school.
40:31
SPEAKER_01: So that's so cool.
40:34
SPEAKER_01: But yes, please go follow uh Marion.
40:36
SPEAKER_01: She is awesome, as you guys can tell.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and also please rate us on Spotify, iTunes, Podcasts, or Google Podcasts.
40:44
SPEAKER_01: We're on seven different platforms, and all of your feedback is so, so important to us.
40:49
SPEAKER_01: So, and if you have any questions for myself or for Marion, please leave them in the uh the art, the you know what I mean, the art for the episode.
40:59
SPEAKER_01: And um I will pass them along to Marian.
41:02
SPEAKER_01: But thank you everybody out there for listening, and I'll be back next time with another interview.
41:13
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42:04
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42:15
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42:20
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