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Motivation + Development = Sales Manager Success · Sales Pipeline Radio

• 0:15
  Matt: Alrighty.
• 0:15
  Well, welcome everybody to another episode of Sales Pipeline Radio.
• 0:18
  I'm your host, Matt Heinz.
• 0:19
  So thankful that you all are here joining us for another episode.
• 0:23
  I think we're on episode like 350 or something.
• 0:25
  It's ridiculous.
• 0:26
  We started this kind of on a whim many years ago and look,
• 0:29
  we have logos and everything.
• 0:30
  It's ridiculous.
• 0:31
  If you are joining us live as part of your work day, if you're joining
• 0:35
  us live on LinkedIn or on YouTube, thanks very much for joining us.
• 0:40
  We can make you part of the show.
• 0:41
  If you have a question, a comment , a rebuttle based on our discussion
• 0:45
  today, we'd welcome all of that through those in the comments.
• 0:48
  We will raise your question on my on air or your comment up on screen.
• 0:52
  And we'll just make this as interactive as possible.
• 0:54
  If you are listening or watching this on demand, thank you
• 0:57
  very much for downloading, for subscribing, for listening.
• 1:00
  If you like what you hear today, this is what we do.
• 1:02
  We feature some of the best and brightest minds in B2B sales and
• 1:05
  marketing on a regular basis.
• 1:06
  And you can find all past and present and future episodes of
• 1:10
  this podcast on salespipelineradio.
• 1:12
  com.
• 1:13
  Super excited to have today, the author of The One on One newsletter, which we'll
• 1:17
  provide a link to here in a little bit.
• 1:19
  She also is the co host of the BDR coffee talk program
• 1:23
  that is co hosted with 6Sense.
• 1:25
  Just an all around bad ass Gabrielle Blackwell, better known to her
• 1:29
  friends as GB joining us today.
• 1:31
  Thanks so much.
• 1:32
  Gabrielle: Yeah.
• 1:32
  Thanks, Matt.
• 1:33
  I'm so excited to be here.
• 1:34
  Matt: I have been able to watch and admire you from afar from the work
• 1:37
  you have done with the newsletter.
• 1:39
  You do a lot of video work.
• 1:40
  You're active on social, with the BDR coffee talk group you do with 6Sense.
• 1:44
  Give people a little highlight of your background and where you focus.
• 1:47
  Gabrielle: Yeah.
• 1:48
  It's funny because I followed you for a while in the background.
• 1:51
  I started off as an SDR in 2015 and I was working at this company where we sold a,
• 1:56
  , content marketing solution for companies that were translating into different
• 2:00
  languages and, I was like, okay, Heinz marketing, might've been in my territory.
• 2:05
  So I was like, I need to know who Matt Heinz is.
• 2:07
  I need to know where he's going.
• 2:08
  So I was a little stalker girl for a little while and ended
• 2:11
  up being really good at it.
• 2:13
  So much so that when I moved to another company, they had promoted
• 2:16
  me up to an SDR manager and I have just not left since 2017.
• 2:22
  So during that time I've worked at companies that were 50 people
• 2:25
  companies that grew to a hundred.
• 2:27
  I've worked at companies like gong, an Airtable that went from 400 to 1000 now
• 2:32
  working at Culture Amp as an SDR manager.
• 2:34
  So I've seen it all done it all.
• 2:37
  There's not much that surprises me anymore.
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  And then I get to of course have like The One on One content
• 2:42
  brand and the coffee talk.
• 2:44
  Matt: Yeah, definitely.
• 2:45
  We'll put a link to the one on one in the, in the show notes.
• 2:47
  Definitely encourage you if you are a sales manager, sales
• 2:49
  leader, definitely check it out.
• 2:51
  And you, you have fans, as you can see here that are already
• 2:54
  showing up in the comments.
• 2:55
  Boy, so much ground we could cover just in terms of sales
• 2:58
  leadership, sales management.
• 3:01
  I want to talk a little bit about being a sales manager versus being a coach.
• 3:04
  But I think one of the topics that we were talking about before
• 3:06
  is this idea of motivation.
• 3:08
  What motivation looks like for modern sellers versus different generations.
• 3:14
  Really important distinction to make.
• 3:15
  So talk about what motivation means to you for a sales organization.
• 3:19
  Then we'll kind of unpack different flavors of that.
• 3:22
  Gabrielle: When I think about motivations or the things that compel people
• 3:26
  into action , the more that we can understand someone's motivation, the
• 3:29
  more we have our hands on the steering wheel, that's kind of the analogy
• 3:32
  that I give with my folks, even trying to understand a prospect's motivation
• 3:35
  and what compels them into action.
• 3:36
  So motivation is going to be different from one person to the next.
• 3:40
  That's the most important thing that we need to understand
• 3:42
  as managers and leaders.
• 3:43
  And so one of the things that I really like to understand is.
• 3:46
  What is the track record of motivation for this person?
• 3:50
  Right?
• 3:50
  Because if someone says, Hey, Matt, or Hey, GB, I'm motivated by money.
• 3:54
  And I say, okay, cool.
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  Tell me about a time where you had the opportunity to make more money
• 3:58
  and you changed how you operate.
• 4:00
  Like you made a different decision.
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  You may have left a place, whatever.
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  And if they don't have a track record of it, at least three examples, I'm
• 4:06
  like, I question whether this is a true motivation of yours So I always just
• 4:10
  kind of start off with understanding...
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  Give me some examples, like some stories that illustrate
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  like what really drives you.
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  And let's start from there.
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  And then also, I want to understand, who are leaders that you've worked
• 4:21
  for or teachers that you've learned from our coaches, right from a sports
• 4:24
  perspective, that really kept you motivated and driven in these arenas.
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  And how do they show up?
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  What were the main behaviors?
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  And then this then gives me kind of a playbook, right?
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  To be able to operate with them.
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  I think another thing that's really important is recognizing that
• 4:37
  motivations change over time, depending on what's going on in someone's life.
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  So at one point in time, someone might've been motivated by "I want
• 4:45
  to make more money", but then they might have kids, they have a family,
• 4:48
  something changes in their family.
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  And they're like, "actually what I really care about a lot more
• 4:53
  is flexibility and independence".
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  So I think just being very, very attuned to the fact that people are
• 4:59
  complex and they change over time.
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  Matt: How much is motivation impacted by a company's culture
• 5:05
  or a sales team's culture?
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  Your first answer there is very much motivation is an
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  individual personal thing.
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  Is it mostly personal or is it driven also by sort of team dynamics as well?
• 5:17
  Gabrielle: I think your environment has so much influence
• 5:21
  over how you show up, right?
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  So if you are in a relationship with someone and they pour into you and
• 5:28
  then you're like, "All right, cool.
• 5:29
  I'm getting a lot from this relationship".
• 5:31
  You're going to keep on going back to the well, if you're in a relationship
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  with someone, they take and take and take from you and you're like, "Oh,
• 5:36
  wow, all of a sudden I feel like" it's not to say that I'm not motivated.
• 5:39
  It's just that "I actually am running on empty".
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  So if you're in an environment that Is not aligned to your values and what it
• 5:48
  takes for you to thrive in an environment.
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  It makes a lot of sense why you're like, I'm just surviving here.
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  So I think as well as a manager, one of the things that we
• 5:55
  need to be really mindful of.
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  And that's why I suggest asking that question about who are
• 5:58
  the leaders or teachers or coaches or whomever else it is.
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  How do they show up for you that influenced you or inspired you to
• 6:04
  show up more and perform better and stay motivated and productive?
• 6:09
  Because if we're not meeting people's needs on that side, then it would make
• 6:12
  a lot of sense why all of a sudden we start to see some disengagement from them.
• 6:18
  Matt: Is it harder to try to drive and impact that motivation
• 6:22
  in a virtual environment?
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  I don't know how much time you've spent in a sales floor with people
• 6:26
  in person versus doing it virtual.
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  Any changes to how you drive motivation and can impact motivation
• 6:34
  in a primarily virtual environment?
• 6:36
  Gabrielle: I think I'm nearing towards majority of my management experience is
• 6:39
  happening in a virtual or hybrid world.
• 6:42
  But the first two and a half years of managing was all in an office.
• 6:46
  I would say that it's been easier.
• 6:50
  In a virtual setting.
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  And I think some of this is because people are at home.
• 6:54
  They're a little bit more comfortable.
• 6:57
  We're not face to face.
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  And for whatever reason, it's like we're able to connect a little bit
• 7:00
  more deeply than we would if we were in an office and people have, like,
• 7:04
  get ready, get dressed, show up, put on right and have a facade there.
• 7:08
  So, you know, I think if managers are willing to kind of build up that level
• 7:12
  of professionally safe intimacy with their people in a remote setting,
• 7:16
  you'd start to see that you're actually getting to know your people much deeper
• 7:19
  and much more than you would if we're in-- also in this weird world where like
• 7:24
  literally, the world's burning right now.
• 7:26
  There's a lot of things that are happening.
• 7:28
  And so in these settings, too, I find that people are willing to
• 7:32
  have those conversations with me about, alright, I'm, I'm struggling.
• 7:36
  I'm trying to figure out, like, how does work actually fit into
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  all of this while it seems like everything is burning to hell?
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  So , I think there's an opportunity for people to be more than managers
• 7:45
  and really be, like, mentors and guides, especially for folks who
• 7:49
  are earlier on in their career.
• 7:50
  Matt: I think that's a pretty big difference.
• 7:53
  And I want to double click on that a little bit around how earlier generations
• 7:58
  came to work and the conversations that happened at work that today, whether we
• 8:03
  ask them to or not, people are bringing their whole selves to the office, right.
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  And it may be in person or virtual and, you know, the things that
• 8:10
  they are thinking about, worried about in life impact work.
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  Where are the lines on that?
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  In terms of especially from a sales management standpoint, I mean, if someone,
• 8:19
  something's going on in someone's life or in the headlines, I mean, you can't
• 8:23
  help, but that impact, how do you address all of that holistically with someone
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  where the objective from a management standpoint is obviously production?
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  Like you need an output from an employer, from a sales rep, but
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  you still have to address the real human behind them as well.
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  That, that feels like a very complicated mix.
• 8:39
  Gabrielle: Yeah.
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  There's a book somewhere in my home about like sales coaching and it talked
• 8:44
  about like the performance formula.
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  So it was like performance equals some set of variables and some of the
• 8:51
  variables were like, you need order, you need a little bit of chaos, right?
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  Like you need to have like direction as well, but then like one of the big
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  variables that showed up that has the biggest impact is your relationship.
• 9:03
  The relationship between the manager and their person, right?
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  So if you do not have a relationship with your people, then that is always going
• 9:12
  to impact productivity and performance.
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  They're not mutually exclusive.
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  I will go to work and I will run through a wall for a manager who I think actually
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  cares about me and gives a damn about me and will like go there and have
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  those conversations with me versus someone who I think is just having
• 9:27
  a transactional engagement with me.
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  So I think the most important thing is to like, whatever's going on in the world,
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  like you still have to be the leader.
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  You still have to be that person who instills a level of confidence
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  and who inspires a certain sort of fearlessness, even if the world is
• 9:43
  crumbling and it's really hard to sell.
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  So I always recommend whatever's going on, trying to come at it from like a lessons
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  learned perspective and giving people or inspiring people the vision to keep hold
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  of while everything might be really tough.
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  But I also think it's knowing your boundaries too.
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  I'm a people leader, but I also am somebody who's not a licensed therapist.
• 10:03
  And there are certain situations where I have to say, "Hey Matt, like I can help
• 10:08
  in these areas, but I think something that's gonna be really that will just
• 10:11
  maximize what we're doing here is finding somebody who can help you in these ways",
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  and especially if you have, any kind of employee assistance programming through,
• 10:20
  like, Modern Health or BetterUp or whatever, but, "I recommend you talking
• 10:26
  to our therapist and our coaches" to my team like every single week and I see
• 10:30
  people benefiting from that and bringing that back into the team settings too.
• 10:34
  Matt: Well, I think sometimes just empathy, right?
• 10:35
  To your point, you're not expected to be a counselor and solve these problems,
• 10:38
  but to recognize that they're there.
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  And empathy is not solving the problem.
• 10:43
  It's sitting there with them and saying " I see you and this, I know this is hard."
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  And just that alone can be so powerful for someone even in a
• 10:53
  professional environment, it feels like that they are heard and supported.
• 10:57
  Gabrielle: Yeah.
• 10:57
  In majority of engagement surveys that I've seen, one of the number one
• 11:01
  questions that I see on there is " do you feel like your manager cares about
• 11:05
  you" , I don't imagine if that's one of the first questions is probably one of
• 11:09
  the most, like the biggest predictors of someone's level of engagement and
• 11:12
  therefore, like potential for performance.
• 11:15
  So, the ability just to sit there and be present with someone and say
• 11:18
  ,"obviously this is really hard for you.
• 11:21
  And that's normal."
• 11:23
  Matt: Talking today on Sales Pipeline Radio with Gabrielle Blackwell,
• 11:27
  "GB" to her friends, who is a sales manager and also the author of The
• 11:32
  One on One fantastic sales newsletter.
• 11:36
  I'll put a link into the show notes, but if you go to workweek.
• 11:38
  com, if you scroll down you will see a headshot of her that looks
• 11:42
  like it is scotch taped next to her name, but you can click on that and
• 11:46
  you can subscribe to a newsletter.
• 11:47
  Highly recommend it.
• 11:47
  So I was reading, a few past issues, getting ready for today.
• 11:50
  And one of the things you talk about is this idea of like how
• 11:54
  you show up as a leader, right?
• 11:57
  So we can talk about the conversations we want to have.
• 11:59
  We can talk about the depth and detail of what that is, but what does it mean
• 12:03
  to show up as a leader and how do you have to be prepared to do that well?
• 12:09
  Gabrielle: Good question.
• 12:11
  The words that are popping up for me.
• 12:12
  We have to be prepared to meet the moment whatever that is.
• 12:14
  And so there are times where for me, let's say it's in a one on one setting and
• 12:19
  my rep is sharing or venting or whatever.
• 12:22
  And I'm like, what's going on?
• 12:23
  What am I doing?
• 12:24
  Sometimes it's just like taking a moment and asking a question what
• 12:26
  is the best way that I can meet the moment for my rep right now?
• 12:29
  And I like asking the question, "Hey, what's the best way
• 12:31
  that I can show up for you?
• 12:33
  Right?
• 12:33
  Like, do you just need me to listen?
• 12:35
  would it be helpful if we just soundboarded this?
• 12:38
  Or do you need to tell me what to do?
• 12:40
  What is the best way that I can show up for you?
• 12:42
  So, in a one on one setting, it can be like that.
• 12:45
  And there's some times where I see my team like in a group setting, we're going to a
• 12:49
  place that is very unproductive and I have to be the person who goes, "hey, we are
• 12:54
  hitting an out of bounds line right now.
• 12:55
  I hear you.
• 12:56
  I understand but also we are moving towards here.
• 12:59
  So, how do we need to show up?
• 13:01
  How does each person need to show up in this situation to help get us there?
• 13:06
  So it's one part asking.
• 13:08
  I wanna say, it's like being a coach, asking questions to your people
• 13:11
  to help you figure out what's the best way to show up for your folks.
• 13:13
  But it's also making sure that you're challenging your folks to show up better
• 13:17
  if they're not doing what they need to do or they're not showing up in a way
• 13:19
  that's gonna be productive for them.
• 13:21
  So I think that to me is really what I think about when I say,
• 13:25
  show, show up as the leader.
• 13:27
  , Matt: that's a two-way street.
• 13:29
  When you do effective one on ones, both people are coming with their
• 13:32
  best selves, both people are coming fully present for the moment.
• 13:35
  Both people are coming prepared for the conversation they want to have.
• 13:39
  When you think about preparation for those one on ones, what should a
• 13:42
  sales rep bring to that conversation?
• 13:44
  What should a manager or sales coach bring to that conversation?
• 13:48
  Gabrielle: I do two, one-on-ones with my team per week.
• 13:50
  Like one is focused on like numbers review, but it's more so focusing on what
• 13:54
  do you need to accomplish this week to set yourself up for success for the quarter?.
• 13:59
  And then what's gonna help you?
• 14:00
  And then what's gonna be a hindrance?
• 14:02
  And then depending on what's gonna help or what's gonna hinder, that becomes
• 14:05
  our focus for our coaching conversation on the second one on one of the week.
• 14:09
  First one on one that we have, the most important thing is, we need to understand
• 14:12
  what's going on in your business.
• 14:13
  You need to have command over that.
• 14:15
  So we have a pacing formula that helps us understand what can we
• 14:19
  predict in terms of performance.
• 14:21
  What are the main things that are influencing those numbers?
• 14:24
  What's going really well.
• 14:25
  And then also what are your goals need to be this week?
• 14:28
  And then coming in prepared with, here's like my step by step of how
• 14:32
  I'm going to accomplish my goal.
• 14:34
  If I understand my rep's numbers and I'm coming in prepared with that and
• 14:36
  my rep is coming in prepared with, here's my goals for the week and here's
• 14:39
  how I'm going to accomplish it we can spend a lot more time coaching on
• 14:43
  what is your strategy for execution.
• 14:45
  And you're going to be way ahead versus, showing up to a one on one
• 14:48
  on a Tuesday and spending 20 minutes just filling out a spreadsheet.
• 14:52
  you are missing out on 30 minutes of coaching every single week compared to
• 14:56
  the person who's coming in prepared.
• 14:58
  Matt: That's right.
• 15:00
  Awesome.
• 15:00
  Well, one of the things you wrote on LinkedIn, for those of you aren't
• 15:02
  following GB on LinkedIn, definitely check out her content there as well.
• 15:05
  It's one of the things you talked about the beginning and end of a one on one.
• 15:08
  In the beginning, just like ask, "how are you?"
• 15:09
  And sometimes you have to ask that question twice, right?
• 15:11
  "How are you?"
• 15:12
  And people say, "I'm fine".
• 15:13
  No, no, no, no.
• 15:14
  How are you?
• 15:15
  Right.
• 15:15
  I mean, literally give that space and oxygen to have that conversation because
• 15:19
  if you don't, it's there anyway, and it's gonna color what they're willing
• 15:22
  to share in the conversation as you go.
• 15:23
  So your advice is start with "how are you" in close with "I appreciate you".
• 15:28
  Gabrielle: Yes.
• 15:29
  Matt: We talk a little bit about appreciation and that gesture, which
• 15:32
  is just three words, but how important that is for people to be seen whether
• 15:36
  they're hitting their number or not.
• 15:38
  Gabrielle: Yeah, I think that's the most important piece is that when
• 15:40
  we're in a performance based role, sometimes we only wait until somebody
• 15:45
  hits their number to actually say, "Hey, you're doing a great job".
• 15:49
  But there's so many things that happened before that.
• 15:52
  And so if people are only associating their worth or their level of
• 15:55
  appreciation with their performance, you're probably in a toxic culture.
• 15:59
  Like, that's my honest belief versus someone where it's like,
• 16:02
  all right, I need to inspire you.
• 16:03
  I need you to believe, right?
• 16:04
  I'm going to encourage you because that's going to be the things that are
• 16:06
  going to help you perform over time.
• 16:09
  So just reminding people whether you're performing or not, I
• 16:12
  believe in you and I appreciate you, I appreciate your presence.
• 16:15
  It's important.
• 16:16
  You're important.
• 16:17
  Matt: It is super important.
• 16:18
  Hey, last question before we have to wrap up.
• 16:21
  Like I said, definitely check out her newsletter, The One on One,
• 16:23
  check out her content on LinkedIn.
• 16:24
  You're a prolific creator.
• 16:27
  Who are some of the creators that you listen to?
• 16:29
  Who are some of the people, sales leaders and otherwise that
• 16:32
  continue to teach and inspire you?
• 16:34
  Gabrielle: Some of the early folks for me were Kevin Dorsey.
• 16:37
  He's been a mentor of mine has been highly influential as well.
• 16:40
  And give a shout out to Scott Leese to all Austin folks
• 16:45
  where I'm in Austin, Texas.
• 16:46
  I've just, I've appreciated his level of vulnerability,
• 16:48
  but also challenging people.
• 16:51
  Ralph Barsi ,is another mentor of mine.
• 16:53
  Honestly, these are all just so many mentors like Nate Vogel.
• 16:56
  But I think there was people like Nikki Ivy and Sarah Brasier when
• 16:59
  I was first started creating.
• 17:00
  I think one of the most beautiful things is to see somebody that you really admire
• 17:03
  and respect and scroll back three, four years and see where they started, right?
• 17:09
  It's so helpful to know that, everybody starts from the same place and you just
• 17:14
  notice they're just really consistent.
• 17:15
  So I'm going to give a shout out to, I think that was like five or six people.
• 17:20
  Matt: And I love that they were just right on top of your head, right?
• 17:22
  I mean, people that you're thinking about the people; we
• 17:24
  are all learning from each other.
• 17:25
  And I think that that continual learning process-- - nobody has all the answers
• 17:29
  since we're all just kind of figuring this out and growing in real time.
• 17:32
  Well, GB, thank you so much for joining us today.
• 17:34
  Thanks for being part of Sales Pipeline Radio.
• 17:36
  And we'll definitely make sure we put some links to The One on
• 17:40
  One newsletter into the show notes as well as your LinkedIn profile.
• 17:43
  So thanks so much.
• 17:44
  Gabrielle: Thank you, Matt.
• 17:45
  Appreciate you.
• 17:46
  Thank you everyone so much for joining us.
• 17:47
  We'll be back next week, every week, 11:30 Pacific, 2:30 Eastern on Thursdays.
• 17:52
  This has been another episode of Sales Pipeline Radio we'll see you next week.
• 17:55
  Take care.