Latest / Random Heathen Ramblings / Random Heathen Ramblings: S4, EP26 - Building Community Across Continents (feat. Stijn Fawkes Of The Greyhorn Pagans Podcast)

Transcript

Random Heathen Ramblings: S4, EP26 - Building Community Across Continents (feat. Stijn Fawkes Of The Greyhorn Pagans Podcast) · Random Heathen Ramblings

• 0:00
  Hello everyone, and welcome to the Random Heathenry Ramblings
• 0:03
  podcast, where we discuss all sorts of things dramatic
• 0:06
  Heathenry related. My name is Jesse.
• 0:09
  I am your host. Let's get into it.
• 0:31
  All right, everybody. Halen, welcome back to this
• 0:34
  week's podcast, the Random Heathen Ramblings Pride Podcast.
• 0:39
  Amid garden musings production, thank you so much for coming
• 0:41
  back and tuning in. This week.
• 0:43
  We've got a a guest lined up that's going to be joining us,
• 0:45
  coming all the way from the Netherlands.
• 0:50
  I was a guest on his podcast about a month or two ago, I I
• 0:54
  guess, but we're going to be talking today with his name is
• 0:59
  Stein Fox and he is a N Pagan himself in the Netherlands.
• 1:05
  He is also the host of the Grayhorn Pagans podcast and as I
• 1:11
  understand, serves a leadership position as yarl of the Grayhorn
• 1:16
  Pagans tribe. We're going to learn more about
• 1:19
  that because I'm not 100% sure to what degree that tribe
• 1:25
  extends in terms of is it, you know, a term that they use for
• 1:29
  online community or is it something of a more grassroots
• 1:35
  level sort of thing. So we're going to be talking
• 1:37
  with him about that and just trying to get a sense of what's
• 1:40
  going on in the Netherlands with with Heathenry.
• 1:44
  So before we get into that, be sure to please give this video a
• 1:48
  like, give the channel you know a subscription, subscribe to the
• 1:53
  channel, follow the podcasts on all the podcasts, stream the
• 1:56
  platforms wherever it is that you catch it to be sure to up
• 1:58
  vote like follow. You know do all those things and
• 2:02
  click the link tree link down in the description or over here in
• 2:04
  the show notes wherever you find it.
• 2:06
  That link tree link has all of the ways that you can support
• 2:09
  this podcast. So follow me on all the socials.
• 2:14
  There is Patreon that you can subscribe to as well for some
• 2:17
  added perks or or or benefits or things that really help support
• 2:22
  this channel and what I do on the podcast.
• 2:25
  So do be sure to check that out. And then check the description
• 2:27
  as well for the links to the Greyhorn Pagans podcast and and
• 2:33
  just the Greyhorn Pagans tribe. I guess it's they got a website,
• 2:37
  there's some social media things I think that you can find.
• 2:40
  But yeah, that's what we're going to be talking about today.
• 2:43
  So I hope you guys enjoy it. Stick around to the end so you
• 2:45
  can hear about all the things that we're going to be talking
• 2:47
  about today. It's going to be another random
• 2:49
  heathen ramblings with myself and Stein of the Grayhorn Pagans
• 2:54
  Podcast. Let's welcome him in.
• 2:56
  All right, folks. Well, we are joined here today
• 2:58
  as I mentioned earlier with Stein, folks of the Grayhorn
• 3:02
  Pagans podcast. Stein, Welcome to the show, my
• 3:04
  man. Thank you.
• 3:06
  Thank you for having me. It's great to have you back here
• 3:09
  actually. Well, this is your first time
• 3:11
  here on my show, but I was just recently say recently but like
• 3:16
  we we filmed the the content a month or two ago and I guess it
• 3:20
  just recently aired or or released on your on your
• 3:24
  platforms, right? Yeah, just yesterday the the
• 3:27
  audio released on the The Ground Vegas podcasts, which is a a
• 3:34
  nice sink. Of course I didn't even do that
• 3:36
  on that on purpose, but it just just happened to to match up.
• 3:42
  So yeah, what was interesting is like that while we're recording
• 3:45
  this today is of course in advance to when it's airing.
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  So the people that are listening and watching this will have time
• 3:52
  to to go and check out you know what we talked about on your
• 3:56
  platforms but we were originally supposed to do this yesterday.
• 4:00
  So today is Sunday recording we were originally supposed to do
• 4:03
  this Saturday. There was some double bookings
• 4:05
  going on which happened but it does work out perfect today that
• 4:08
  you know the our, our content that we that we recorded on your
• 4:13
  show came out the day earlier for us to record this.
• 4:17
  So it's perfect timing. Yeah.
• 4:20
  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
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  Yesterday was almost like almost triple booked even.
• 4:26
  I hate when that happens. Oh yeah, That's that's why I
• 4:30
  like, started putting things in my, like actually on my phone
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  calendar and working with like a scheduling app more because it
• 4:40
  happens too often. It's kind of a good problem to
• 4:43
  have, I guess. You know, if you're hunting down
• 4:46
  people or like scrambling to find guests or content to
• 4:52
  record, it can be a bit stressful.
• 4:54
  So I guess the opposite of that is to have more than what you
• 4:59
  know what to do with at times, and to get yourself together is
• 5:02
  a good problem to have. It's a good First world problem
• 5:06
  you speak. I did that to myself.
• 5:09
  I was at I think last week I was having lunch with some friends
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  and I had a guy, he he was on my show last week.
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  So the last episode prior to this one, I had him scheduled to
• 5:24
  come on at a specific time and I'm like eating lunch with some
• 5:28
  friends and I was like 30 minutes past and I had totally
• 5:31
  forgotten about about it. And he messaged me and said, hey
• 5:34
  man, are we still on for today? I'm like shit yeah, but but can
• 5:39
  you give me a couple, can you give me a couple hours?
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  And I felt so bad. He was really cool about it.
• 5:45
  So it it all worked out obviously.
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  But yeah man, like even the best made plan sometimes, you know
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  you end up just losing it sometimes.
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  So but you are you are in the Netherlands, correct?
• 5:59
  Yes, yes I am. So this is pretty cool.
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  I've I've I've had some some guests on my show from across
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  the world. I've had a gentleman on here
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  from Australia and I'm trying to think if I've had others here
• 6:14
  from other parts of the world. You know, I've had different
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  guests from other parts of my country, but you're the first
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  from from Europe that I can that I can think of.
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  So this is a pretty exciting, pretty exciting thing.
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  How how do you feel about having guests from like other parts of
• 6:29
  the world on your show? What's that like for you when
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  you get to book people on your show?
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  Well, most of my guests are American, of course.
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  It just seems to be like when it comes to entertainment and
• 6:44
  podcasting and knowledge, much of it is in the USI mean, you
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  know, bigger country. The language barrier isn't as as
• 6:56
  big of course, but you know, I I do, I do try to to get people
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  from from Europe on. As well, if I do, they are
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  mostly from from the UKUK and Ireland.
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  I'll soon have a Irish woman on, but yeah, it's it's it's quite
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  rare actually. If I get to do a podcast in in
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  Dutch, I think I've done one or maybe 2.
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  So far in Dutch, which is quite weird actually.
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  Like if I because I'm so used to having to speak English, you
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  know, also with my my wife being American, of course, you know,
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  there are definitely days. That's well, most days actually,
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  Then I speak English more than I do Dutch.
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  So, and especially on podcasts like 98% is in English, so when
• 8:00
  I get to speak Dutch. Like, I have to think about
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  things. Like, I have to think what I
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  want to say because it feels weird speaking my own language,
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  really, on the podcast. Yeah.
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  So it's kind of odd, but I can't imagine.
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  Man. Of course English is my native
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  language and I'm not bilingual in the sense that I don't
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  fluently speak other languages. I know some other languages and
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  or words and phrases and other languages.
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  But in terms of conversationally being able to carry a
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  conversation in any language, I probably couldn't.
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  I could get myself into some trouble like just enough in in
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  like I know some German. I know some Russian because I
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  have a friend who's from Belarus and he taught me or he was he
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  was like when we were I was a younger fellow he was we we live
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  nearby each other and this is going back almost 20 years now.
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  He was teaching me Russian back then and it's almost like riding
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  a bike, like I forgot a lot of some of what he taught me.
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  But if I were to like pick up a book and read it or start
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  talking to with him and in it in that language again, because
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  that's of course his native language, it would, I would like
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  pick it back up and it wouldn't be, but I would be busting my
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  ass along the way. You.
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  Know pretty pretty badly. So that's wild man.
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  I didn't think that someone who's, you know, you speak
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  English very well and you have a very good command of the
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  language. So, yeah, props to you for that.
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  But what? So I wanted to ask you, you're
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  in the Netherlands, you're from the Netherlands, of course, and
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  you are a Norse Pagan, right? A Germanic heathen.
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  Yeah, yeah. Norse.
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  Germanic. Yes, Okay.
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  And have you always been that, has that been your spirituality,
• 9:49
  religion your whole life? Well, when I was a bit.
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  Younger I want to say like late, late teens maybe.
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  I started experimenting a bit with with religion.
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  Like most of the Netherlands is Catholic or Protestants or
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  Catholic, Roman Catholic. So you know, religion has always
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  been like around me. My, my grandparents from
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  father's sides were very, very strictly.
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  Religious. My grandfather was a part of the
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  church choir for the men's choir for like 50-60 years.
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  Like for a long, long time. Yeah, yeah, pretty much most of
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  it. You know, to church.
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  They went to church every Sunday with my grandmother from other
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  sides. We usually just did it on them.
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  On the bigger holidays, So Christmas, Easter, you know, we
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  went to the the church where where she always went when you
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  know, when she was a kids because that's where like where
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  we would meet the the family, you know, the the great aunts,
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  the great uncles. That's like pretty much where
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  the family from other side would gather around the holidays.
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  So yeah, I tried the, you know, the Christian Catholic thing for
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  a bit, and I mean it. It kind of, it kind of worked.
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  You know, I did get some answers.
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  I did get some things that that I wished for, but the one thing
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  that really kept me from. Like going full Christian or
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  going full Catholic. Was the like how I always call
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  it, the belief or else? Yeah.
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  That was those absolutes kind of thing.
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  Yeah, in absolutes. OK.
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  Yeah, that was the the one hurdle I couldn't pass.
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  Like it just brought so much stress on me, like, constantly.
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  Having to, you know, to watch what I do, watch what I say,
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  watch what I think even, yeah, that's it.
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  It just it took over and it brought on so much stress and I
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  wasn't really able to do anything else because like first
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  thing I have had to think about is would this be approved.
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  And so I just. I dropped it.
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  I and I. Went through life kind of
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  agnostic, if you will, like believing that there is a higher
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  power. I just, you know, didn't know
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  what it was or who it was or how to call it.
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  And then like my early 20s really, I think it was 2122.
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  I was already kind of going into paganism, animism.
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  Abets because it just it felt better also being the the
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  original beliefs of Europe, of course the original Gods of
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  Europe. And yeah, funny enough the TV
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  series Vikings on the The History Channel was the the real
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  catalyst for me. That's when when something just
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  clicked when I was like this. This is it.
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  This is, this is what I want. This is what I see.
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  This is how this is what I I recognize.
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  And from there, yeah, you know, started looking for for groups
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  to join, of course, people to connect with, which is harder
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  than it may seem at the beginning because like so many
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  people, so many groups are just focused on biking.
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  Like being a Viking or Larping as a Viking and yeah.
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  Like, yeah, that's that's cool, you know, Of course it's cool.
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  But I wanted more. I wanted to go deeper.
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  Like I I don't want it to just, you know, scream hail Odin or
• 14:36
  hail Thor and you know, yeah, the warrior that shit.
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  Yeah, yeah, the warrior aspect of things.
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  And that's that was a, you know, I I you're not the only one.
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  I'm one of them that, you know, started from a a religious
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  worldview. I was raised Christian, you
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  know, in in a nondenominational version of Christianity.
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  You know, So it wasn't like we had a name to, you know what I
• 15:04
  mean? Like there we weren't Baptist,
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  we weren't Protestant, that sort of thing, nondenominational.
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  But coming from that into a a religion that is polytheistic
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  and then figuring out the, you know, learning the worldview
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  part that was the different that was the most challenging
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  transition. You know cuz again you know I
• 15:25
  was raised to believe certain things in a certain way much
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  like what you were saying is the do this or else you know there
• 15:32
  was there was all the the dogmatic stuff that like you
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  know what's what's ironic to me is, is is how much Christianity
• 15:39
  is. And this isn't no way to to like
• 15:43
  bash Christians or anything because I know plenty of them
• 15:45
  that are good hearted people. So I don't use the term and then
• 15:49
  try to lump everybody into one category but it's you know
• 15:52
  there's this all this concepts of of you know love and and but,
• 15:57
  but but so how how much of the doctrine is is fueled by fear
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  and like do this or else kind of thing like you were saying, you
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  know it's if you don't do a certain thing a certain way, if
• 16:08
  you don't believe a certain way, then you're destined for eternal
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  punishment. You know.
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  And I'm like kind of like with you I was I at a certain point
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  in my life reached this ability to think for myself instead of
• 16:22
  just being led by what others were telling me to believe.
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  And at that point I was like holy shit, you know like I'm
• 16:29
  I'm, I'm walking on egg shells. You know that term like walking
• 16:33
  on egg shells this whole time, being afraid to.
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  And then, you know, going into that mindset of of trying to
• 16:41
  figure things out on my own or or learning things on my own,
• 16:44
  right, trying to like, all right, well, this is what I was
• 16:46
  told. But what can I figure out on my
• 16:48
  own? What can I learn on my own?
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  That was a huge jump into, like, well, I know what happens
• 16:56
  according to this doctrine that I was raised to believe.
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  I know what happens to people that do stuff like this.
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  You know what I mean? Or what could happen to people
• 17:02
  who do stuff like this. It was discouraged.
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  It was. It was not something supported
• 17:09
  in in in that belief structure really.
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  It's just, you know, have this faith, this blind belief in in
• 17:17
  don't question things, you know, don't don't don't don't
• 17:21
  challenge it so much. And I don't know it was
• 17:26
  liberating in a way to to reach a point that in my life where
• 17:30
  the paganism gave me that opportunity because I did the
• 17:33
  same thing I or a very similar thing as you did, right?
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  I I, I stopped going to church. I stopped believing as a
• 17:39
  Christian would believe. And I really didn't find
• 17:41
  anything right away. I I kind of was like, well,
• 17:45
  whatever it is, I don't know, but I it ain't.
• 17:47
  But I've been raised to believe in and that's not where I feel
• 17:49
  at home anymore. So you, you said that Vikings
• 17:54
  was a big, you know, catalyst for you to push you into
• 17:58
  learning about the gods of Europe and where you're from.
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  You know, and I've not talked to too many people like this in in
• 18:07
  this way. Everybody that I talked to are
• 18:12
  here on this side of the pond, you know, like Americans as well
• 18:16
  who have found this belief system.
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  And I'm always curious to get someone's perspective who is a
• 18:23
  native European. When you see so much of
• 18:28
  noneuropeans discovering this, this path, you know, and wanting
• 18:33
  to become more integrate, have it, you know, become more
• 18:37
  integrated in your life, what are your what's, how do you feel
• 18:39
  about that? Like, do you think it's
• 18:42
  appropriation? Like what?
• 18:43
  What's your general feeling about things, you know?
• 18:45
  I'm always curious to hear what people think about that from
• 18:48
  from your perspective, if you're willing, I don't think.
• 18:52
  About it, yeah, I know, of course, of course.
• 18:54
  No, I think appropriation isn't isn't the right term because I
• 19:01
  mean in a way every. Well, let's say every Caucasian
• 19:07
  American can trace their lineage back to Europe.
• 19:17
  It's just that I always found it's find it funny that like it
• 19:24
  is mostly Americans who are like where where there is such such a
• 19:30
  big wave. Going on of rediscovering and
• 19:34
  revival, because this is kind of going back to the it's kind of a
• 19:40
  controversial idea, but there is some truth in it.
• 19:43
  The idea of blood and soil, that it's just that it's easier to
• 19:49
  reconnect with something you know, with the divine or the
• 19:53
  gods or whoever, if you truly live in the part of the world,
• 19:58
  in the lands where you know they rule.
• 20:04
  So the soil type or the the the soil parts may not be the case
• 20:10
  for for most Americans, but definitely the blood part, the
• 20:16
  the lineage, the heritage. I I do believe that that that is
• 20:22
  a a big reason why and also just looking at how how strict and
• 20:29
  how hard the the church can be in in the states it doesn't
• 20:35
  surprise me one bits that so many people just you know leave
• 20:39
  that behind My my wife actually comes from a very strict
• 20:44
  religious family both her I believe both grandparents are
• 20:52
  like from both sides of the family were very very strict I
• 20:57
  believe from it was from father's side that he even like
• 21:03
  lads a couple of the the major churches in the the American
• 21:09
  northwest. So for her to be a, well a
• 21:16
  eclectic which an old time which you know married to a heathen is
• 21:23
  something that she is well, she's very happy about it
• 21:28
  because it feels more like home. But at the same time she is kind
• 21:35
  of nervous because of how strict it is and how, you know,
• 21:40
  dangerous it can be you know disowned and all of that.
• 21:44
  But no, yeah, I mean I'm, I'm actually quite thankful for the
• 21:50
  the huge wave going on in the in the States because as Europeans
• 21:55
  we do still have a tendency to look very much to to the United
• 21:59
  States to you know to see what's going on and see what we should
• 22:03
  be doing because of the, well I guess now more perceived
• 22:08
  superpower. You know America's always been,
• 22:11
  you know the the Big Brother of Europe so to speak.
• 22:15
  You know they they got over there they got a chance to do
• 22:18
  over and they did well like they build up this huge freaking
• 22:23
  empire. So we always try to stay try to
• 22:27
  stay in context try to stay friends and economic bonds and
• 22:30
  whatever and most of our pop culture of course coming from
• 22:34
  the from the US interesting. So yeah, I think it's it's it's
• 22:43
  a very, it's a good, good thing And like I always encourage
• 22:47
  people who who did find their way again back to the European
• 22:55
  gods to, you know, you find your way back to the gods.
• 22:59
  I'll come back over to the Motherlands.
• 23:03
  I know a lot of people like the the idea of of going on these
• 23:07
  like journeys, these pilgrimages in a way, right?
• 23:09
  To to return back to a land that the gods are from, basically.
• 23:14
  You know, and I know that that's a really.
• 23:17
  Like native view of things. You know what I mean.
• 23:20
  The indigenous beliefs, you know people again feel or maybe have
• 23:25
  a propensity to feel that you are closer to the gods if you go
• 23:29
  back to where their stories originated from.
• 23:32
  You know, I have, I've I've kind of evolved as a begging myself
• 23:36
  into like I I appreciate that concept and at the same time I
• 23:42
  also find connection to the divine.
• 23:46
  In ways that transcend physical, physical connection.
• 23:50
  You know what I mean? The the earth, the, the, the,
• 23:52
  the natural elements. All of the things that I feel
• 23:56
  the the gods, right as, as characters, as as figures are
• 24:02
  are archetypes in a way to bigger and and more inclusive
• 24:07
  things. And so the natural forces that
• 24:09
  the elements of nature that we're we're given names by
• 24:14
  indigenous people, you know. Can be felt and connected to
• 24:19
  wherever you are in the world. It's it.
• 24:21
  It's not like you have to be, you know, on the shores of
• 24:25
  Norway, or in Iceland, or in in in what used to be, you know,
• 24:30
  Saxony in Germany or any of these other places where these
• 24:34
  gods originate from. It's like you don't have to be
• 24:36
  there to necessarily feel the the, the essence of the aspects
• 24:41
  that are described in the stories, in the myths and the
• 24:44
  lore, and in the sagas. It adds an element, I think to
• 24:48
  it to if you are able to do so. It's just not, at least not for
• 24:53
  me. It's it's not like I'm not.
• 24:55
  I'm not. I don't have this burning desire
• 24:56
  to just uproot everything I've built here to start over just
• 25:01
  because of what you're talking about, right?
• 25:03
  Having that kind of like blood and soil connection.
• 25:08
  I would still like to travel. I would still like to visit.
• 25:10
  I would still like to go to places, right Some of these.
• 25:14
  Historical places where, you know, like I would go, I would
• 25:19
  love to to to visit the archaeological sites of where
• 25:23
  like Donors Oak was, you know, and and visit some of the name
• 25:28
  places in in Scandinavia that that still have the names of the
• 25:33
  gods in their place, you know what I mean?
• 25:36
  I think that would be really exciting.
• 25:41
  No, I totally agree with you on that, you know, That's why I
• 25:45
  said that it can make the connection easier.
• 25:48
  It's not a prerequisite, you know.
• 25:52
  And if if you know you are established in the US like you,
• 25:57
  you have your group, you have your people your your tribe your
• 26:01
  clan, whatever you you know, you know you want to call it, then
• 26:06
  by all means stay there. You know it's it's it's a web.
• 26:10
  It's the web of weird. And you know there there are
• 26:14
  certain connections of course, like we are connected all over
• 26:18
  the world. That's that's the, you know, the
• 26:20
  knots where the the threats come together but you know which
• 26:24
  makes the Nets. So, you know, if if you're
• 26:27
  comfortable where you are and you feel the gods where you are,
• 26:31
  and you can have that connection with the gods where you are,
• 26:33
  then oh, by all means, stay there.
• 26:36
  I think, you know, the gods would agree with that.
• 26:38
  You know, they look, look down at you and they're like okay,
• 26:42
  but you got a good life here. You know, we're looking after
• 26:45
  you here and you can connect with us here.
• 26:48
  Why are you going over there? To start again.
• 26:51
  You know I feel like and I and I posted something about this
• 26:56
  recently on on some of my platforms was was that you know
• 27:00
  the gods are less concerned with.
• 27:03
  Us on a daytoday sort of thing As as much as they are concerned
• 27:07
  with. What are we doing to fulfill our
• 27:10
  obligations to our people, to our to our families, to our kin,
• 27:14
  to our tribes, right. Because we are.
• 27:17
  We are known by our deeds. You know, the things that we
• 27:21
  read about in the stories, the myths, the sagas.
• 27:25
  These aren't. These aren't stories of people
• 27:28
  who are just. Blogging about it or writing it
• 27:31
  down like these were, these are stories of people that went out
• 27:33
  and did things, you know, I mean, they accomplished things.
• 27:37
  And the doers, the the deeds are, are what I feel kind of
• 27:44
  create that immortal, timeless essence of us, right?
• 27:50
  We we are remembered by what we've done, not by what we
• 27:54
  talked about. And oddly enough, so much of
• 27:58
  what? Things that are being done today
• 28:01
  are stuff like this like podcasts and and and other
• 28:05
  social platform distributions to to to to talk about these things
• 28:09
  and to like spread that message to spark that fire, to plant
• 28:13
  those seeds. And I was going to ask you too
• 28:16
  with with regards to your podcast, what made you want to
• 28:21
  start podcasting and particularly have a a Pagan
• 28:26
  podcast. What was the inspiration behind
• 28:28
  you? Starting that, well, the name
• 28:32
  Greyhorn Pagans is like even that.
• 28:36
  There's a whole story attached to it.
• 28:40
  Like I said, I was like trying to find groups to join groups
• 28:45
  that were like really dedicated to Paganism and researching and
• 28:49
  you know gatherings and all that switch, you know, was quite
• 28:53
  hard. So when I did find a good one,
• 28:58
  or what seemed to be a good one at first heathens for an honor,
• 29:03
  I can honestly say that from them I have learned most.
• 29:11
  You know, it seemed like a good group.
• 29:13
  It seemed like a good good space to be in.
• 29:15
  But unfortunately, Ego took over and you know, there were a
• 29:25
  couple of like bigger names. Yeah, in that group, which, you
• 29:31
  know, I I command them for it. It's actually amazing to have
• 29:34
  some more, you know, well known writers and researchers in your
• 29:38
  group. But it was a lot of like I
• 29:44
  wanted to go further back, like, not just Vikings and the Viking
• 29:49
  Age and all. Like, I wanted to go a bit
• 29:51
  further back to, you know, the indo European ages, like where
• 29:55
  where do the ancestors of our ancestors come from?
• 29:59
  You know, what was paganism? Before it was paganism, But
• 30:05
  somehow that wasn't appreciated. I got told to delete those posts
• 30:10
  and to, you know, stop doing research and all because that's
• 30:14
  not what the group was about, which I found very odd.
• 30:19
  But you know, OK, so be it. And.
• 30:25
  Now was this sorry to cut you off?
• 30:27
  Was this like a strictly online group or was this like
• 30:31
  grassroots also? Where there it was, mostly
• 30:35
  online, but they were definitely making efforts and we're on
• 30:40
  their way to to build it up as a like a physical society as well.
• 30:45
  You know, meetings did take place.
• 30:47
  I did meet one of the other European admins, A Belgian, so
• 30:54
  it was nice. It wasn't that long of a long
• 30:57
  ways of travel, but still kind of a vacation because it is
• 31:01
  still another country. So, you know, I did have good
• 31:06
  times there, but it was really as soon as egos took over that I
• 31:15
  I found myself kind of drifting away from it's like wanting more
• 31:19
  but not being able to to get more.
• 31:24
  And that's when I started my own group.
• 31:27
  That's when I started the the Grayhorn Pagans.
• 31:30
  And so that's, well, so that I could be in control, so to
• 31:36
  speak, so that I could, you know, if I wanted to go deeper,
• 31:40
  if I wanted to, you know, research or talk about some
• 31:44
  topics that maybe were related to it but not specifically
• 31:48
  Heathen or Pagan, then I could, you know, and I wasn't being
• 31:53
  being stifled or held back. And how I started podcasting was
• 31:59
  actually a few years ago when the whole world went crazy
• 32:04
  because of some virus. I had to take odd jobs here and
• 32:10
  there. I was working as a Mr. Freelance
• 32:14
  Cook at that time and so I, you know, lost it all.
• 32:19
  I wasn't able to freelance anymore and most of the the
• 32:23
  restaurants closed of course. So I had to take on jobs with
• 32:28
  one of the first being delivery bike.
• 32:32
  Delivery. I will delivery on bike.
• 32:34
  And if you work like five days a week, couple hours a day, you
• 32:39
  know you can only listen to your playlists, your music playlists
• 32:43
  for for so long, for so much until it's like, OK, you know,
• 32:48
  I've heard this song come by 10 times already and I've skipped
• 32:51
  over it like 20 times already. I need something new.
• 32:56
  And that became podcast. So I started as a like as a
• 33:01
  podcast fan first just listening to different kinds of podcasts
• 33:05
  about well pro wrestling. Always been a big pro wrestling
• 33:10
  fan and you know more about the vehicles and paganism.
• 33:14
  Found a few things or any new some creators like survived the
• 33:18
  jive of course. And what it what really got us
• 33:24
  started for me is when I was a a guest on my Third Eye the My
• 33:31
  Third Eye podcast I was invited or like kind of got myself
• 33:36
  invited actually to to talk about Tartaria the the empire of
• 33:43
  Tartaria and cymatics and everything connected to that.
• 33:48
  And I just had so much fun doing that and I like doing a a round
• 33:55
  table on his his show once that yeah I can sorry that's my yeah.
• 34:04
  Oh, hey, we got another guest. Yeah, I think he's wanted to go,
• 34:10
  I said. Let me open the back door.
• 34:12
  Yeah, real quick, so that he doesn't keep interrupting.
• 34:15
  That's all good. Yeah, do your thing.
• 34:18
  No. Yeah, Mover cats gotta love her.
• 34:31
  You get something, man, They are.
• 34:34
  Even Dutch cats evidently have an attitude.
• 34:37
  It's just a cat. Yeah, it's a worldwide thing.
• 34:40
  It's just a cat thing. Yeah.
• 34:43
  And he for sure has an attitude. He looks too much like me.
• 34:49
  But yeah, like I just had so much, so much fun doing that
• 34:54
  that I bought a microphone cuz I used the 1st I believe the first
• 35:07
  podcast that I did with him was just like my laptop microphone.
• 35:15
  So it was the quality was absolutely, absolutely
• 35:19
  horrendous. So you've.
• 35:22
  All been there, man. I look back at my old content
• 35:25
  and I'm like, man, why don't I even bother back then?
• 35:27
  But you make do with what you have best you can.
• 35:29
  Yeah, no, of course everybody has to start somewhere.
• 35:32
  And little did I know that the quality would be absolutely
• 35:37
  horrendous. Laptop, speakers, laptop, mic.
• 35:41
  Not the best. So I just, I started my own
• 35:46
  podcast, wanted to keep it with members of the Greyhound Pagans
• 35:51
  first And you know, we did a couple things, which was, you
• 35:56
  know, it was nice, it was interesting.
• 35:58
  But I felt like I like if I wanted to grow the podcast and
• 36:02
  if I wanted to gain more knowledge, I had to branch out.
• 36:08
  And like I saw all those podcasters and content creators,
• 36:13
  they were always doing series, you know, always doing multiple
• 36:17
  parts of a particular topic. So I was like, OK, what can I
• 36:23
  do? Like what is kind of Pagan
• 36:26
  related but still like and still be relatable to to other people.
• 36:33
  And you know, it's just looking at the world around us,
• 36:38
  especially at that time. I think this was about a year
• 36:42
  later. You know, I thought of Ragnarok
• 36:49
  because, you know, it pretty much seems like the world was
• 36:53
  coming to an end, or at least the world as we know it's.
• 36:58
  And you know, in the Eastern religions that's of course it's
• 37:03
  like it's called the Kaliyuga. And then in in the more
• 37:09
  Abrahamic faiths, it's the apocalypse.
• 37:12
  And we find some things that's like sounded very similar.
• 37:18
  And so I just invited a a whole bunch of people and we did
• 37:25
  multiple hour shows talking about Ragnarok and the you know
• 37:34
  the commonalities that that we could find in the in the
• 37:39
  different texts and you know the things that we saw around us and
• 37:43
  trying to trying to make make sense of it and kind of relates
• 37:49
  to what was in the text like okay.
• 37:52
  Do we have examples like actual physical examples of that in you
• 37:58
  know in our modern world with the I beg as the example being
• 38:03
  for example the ice giants. Well what are like the modern
• 38:06
  day giants like the tech giants you know Microsoft, Apple and
• 38:11
  ice giants. Well I mean they're pretty
• 38:14
  they're pretty numb they don't they don't care so ice cold icy
• 38:18
  yeah you know so we so we just we puzzled some some things
• 38:25
  together and that was that was really the kick off.
• 38:30
  I just, I had so much fun doing that that I, you know, I got
• 38:37
  myself some good editing, editing programs.
• 38:41
  I got myself eventually a much better microphone with much
• 38:46
  better quality. And I've been doing it for like
• 38:51
  close to a year and a half now. Just about all kinds of topics,
• 38:55
  all things that's that are interesting.
• 38:58
  And you know, not all Pagan related necessarily, but all
• 39:04
  within the realms of Paganism, witchcraft, mysticism.
• 39:09
  Yeah I've I've I've find myself doing something similar recently
• 39:14
  just to mix mix things up a bit because this is a Heathen
• 39:18
  podcast of course and that's a very niche category you know in
• 39:23
  in the grand scheme of things. And I don't want to sacrifice
• 39:27
  the integrity of the brand or the name or anything to just get
• 39:30
  more views or whatever, because I but but it's also fun to get
• 39:35
  other people on the show. That are maybe not necessarily
• 39:38
  Pagan or anything. Like I had a guy a few weeks ago
• 39:42
  who is a fitness coach, you know what I mean?
• 39:46
  And it was like we weren't really talking so much about
• 39:48
  anything Pagan related. It was just what is this guy
• 39:50
  doing for his brand and his community?
• 39:54
  And I mean, cuz again, you never know just who's listening and
• 39:56
  watching your stuff. Who's like, man, I need a
• 39:59
  fitness coach or I need to talk to somebody about that and the
• 40:02
  next thing you know. You you through the networking
• 40:05
  capabilities, right? Like you, you create this
• 40:08
  connection with with people you know and talking about
• 40:13
  connections you know Grayhorn Pagan, you've mentioned a few
• 40:16
  times already. You know the name of your
• 40:19
  podcast is the Grayhorn Pagans Podcast, but you've alluded to a
• 40:22
  group that you created called the Grayhorn Pagans.
• 40:25
  So can you tell us more about that and is it an online thing
• 40:30
  only? You mentioned talking about
• 40:33
  bringing something up that's gonna be more like grassroots or
• 40:36
  physical, but would you kind of fill us in on what and who the
• 40:41
  Grayhorn Pagans as a collective, as a group are and what it
• 40:44
  represents? Yeah, of course I'd love to.
• 40:48
  The Tribe of the Grayhorn Pagans is a tribe that's I started that
• 40:55
  I run together with my with my wife.
• 41:01
  It's a very eclectic bunch of people.
• 41:07
  We have pagans, which is decoders, shamans and I started
• 41:17
  it at first to be a a group where people can just, you know,
• 41:24
  talk with each other. We connect with other.
• 41:27
  Like minded people not necessarily be a a content based
• 41:35
  group because there is like there are already so many of
• 41:39
  those where like the only discussion you you really have
• 41:43
  is like in the comments underneath the post and that's
• 41:47
  like only until you know the next bit of content shows up.
• 41:52
  So I really wanted to be a. A open, open group, open, open
• 41:57
  place for people of any spiritual path to to connect
• 42:04
  with each other, to talk with each other about you know, about
• 42:08
  the religion, about their beliefs, but also just about
• 42:11
  everyday things. Because you know not not every
• 42:14
  day, every minute can be about the gods, can be about your your
• 42:19
  religion. I mean, even our ancestors just,
• 42:23
  you know. It's small talk.
• 42:26
  So, right. Yeah.
• 42:27
  Just connect with people socially, yeah, yeah.
• 42:30
  Yeah, yeah. And it is still very much a
• 42:35
  online thing, but we are in the process of of making it's a
• 42:45
  recognized recognized community, recognized religious community
• 42:52
  both in the. The US and in Europe.
• 42:56
  So we're getting, we're trying to get together all the the
• 43:01
  paperwork and all the, you know, all the money that that needs to
• 43:08
  be needs to be spent and able to to make that happen because it's
• 43:14
  it's going to make things a lot easier if we are like truly
• 43:19
  recognized, if we want to have meetings, if we want to.
• 43:24
  Do rituals and all of that. If we can show to the legitimacy
• 43:33
  of your organization, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it just it makes
• 43:36
  things a lot, a lot easier. And it's actually thanks to one
• 43:41
  of my recent guests on the Graham Pagans Podcast who
• 43:45
  steered us in the right direction cuz we already had it
• 43:50
  in mind that we wanted to do something like that.
• 43:53
  We just didn't know what to do. We didn't know where to start.
• 43:58
  You know, like it. Are we are we going to register
• 44:01
  at as like a church? I mean, we're not really a
• 44:05
  church. And like, we need an actual
• 44:07
  building for that. And you know, all of that stuff
• 44:10
  and it's like, OK, that's not happening.
• 44:13
  OK, so like, how about we just call it a, a tribe, call it a
• 44:18
  religion, and by just putting it out there, make it legit?
• 44:22
  Yeah. OK.
• 44:23
  But like if we want to do things then you know tax and the
• 44:27
  government always needs their cuts.
• 44:32
  And then it was Barry Lynn actually Reverend Barry Lynn who
• 44:38
  steered us in the the right direction, who told us, yeah,
• 44:42
  you know it's just a bunch of very quick and easy paperwork to
• 44:49
  you know that that government organization and.
• 44:53
  You know, as long as they like, they're pretty much going to
• 44:57
  agree anyway. Because, like, you know, what do
• 44:59
  they care? Oh, you want to be, You want to
• 45:01
  be a legit religious community or organization?
• 45:04
  Cool. You know, just make any trouble,
• 45:07
  right? Well, that's a double edged
• 45:11
  sword. Yeah.
• 45:14
  I mean, of course, it's that easy for anybody.
• 45:16
  I mean that. No wonder there's so many
• 45:18
  problem children out here, as it were.
• 45:20
  You know, like there's so if anybody or everybody can just
• 45:23
  fill out a form and the powers that be, as we'll say, are just
• 45:27
  like basically just writing them off like LK, whatever, just
• 45:30
  don't kill anybody or whatever, you know?
• 45:32
  It's no wonder that there's so many, again, like problem
• 45:38
  organizations or or groups that that shed a a bad light or put
• 45:42
  Heathenry and and Paganism in a negative, negative light if it's
• 45:48
  that easy. Yeah, I mean here in the in the
• 45:52
  Netherlands I I checked of course it's a there's a there
• 45:56
  are a little more rules attached to it.
• 45:59
  We need a well at least the physical address, like a
• 46:06
  physical postal address, which cannot be the the private
• 46:12
  address of one of the the members of one of the ones who.
• 46:17
  Who signed the documents and, you know, a phone number and all
• 46:23
  of all of that stuff, which can be, you know, the private number
• 46:27
  of one of the members or one of the founders.
• 46:31
  So I'm kind of, you know, looking into into a few of
• 46:35
  things. We already have a religious
• 46:38
  center like a couple minutes away from here who do rent out
• 46:44
  space. For, you know, freelancers or
• 46:48
  gatherings or whatever. So I'm like kind of in the
• 46:55
  process of doing some some research on that like, OK, so if
• 47:01
  I just like rent a space, even if I don't actually go there
• 47:07
  for, I don't know, let's say a day, a month, can I use it as a
• 47:12
  physical address? Can I?
• 47:14
  You know give your phone number as the physical phone number
• 47:18
  because you know that that puts be just the the biggest things
• 47:24
  that's that's the major hurdle so far.
• 47:26
  You know the physical address and the the phone number, which
• 47:30
  both cannot be private, which is gonna, you know, cost some
• 47:37
  amount of money and so far I'm paying everything out of my.
• 47:43
  My own pocket, out of my own pockets.
• 47:45
  And you know, doing it for the love of the tribe and love of
• 47:49
  love of my people and the love of of my fellow tribal members.
• 47:53
  You know, we, we're a great group.
• 47:55
  We have something amazing, amazing people.
• 47:58
  But I'm not made of money, so, right.
• 48:03
  Nobody is, man. I mean there's there's very few.
• 48:06
  I think especially when we're talking like this type of thing,
• 48:09
  you know like we're not rolling in it over here.
• 48:13
  And I think that's an that's an important aspect to take into
• 48:19
  consideration when you have groups, when you have a group,
• 48:22
  when there's a community that's been built to support one
• 48:26
  another that the part of supporting one another is to is
• 48:31
  the fund and and to and to contribute in monetarily.
• 48:34
  You know what I mean, cuz like you say, you know, we're not all
• 48:36
  made of money. So if it's one person's
• 48:39
  responsibility to cover all of this cost, it almost certainly
• 48:42
  won't happen. But yeah if you have you know 20
• 48:47
  people split the cost up of something you know or you know
• 48:52
  have it to be where you know some organizations have these
• 48:56
  like dues you know that they're paid annual dues fees and
• 48:59
  things. Well that money is not going
• 49:01
  into someone's pocket it's coming into the treasury for the
• 49:03
  expense of up keeping up the organization or or you know the
• 49:07
  the daytoday or event type things that happen.
• 49:10
  So it if you know when you when you legitimize it, when you go
• 49:12
  through the the legal processes and and and do all that stuff,
• 49:17
  then yeah, it makes it it makes it much easier to fund these
• 49:22
  types of things and and make it not so much of A burden on one
• 49:27
  person. No exactly.
• 49:29
  Cuz like you can do outside fundraisers as well, even if
• 49:35
  it's technically a nonprofit. You just make sure that you have
• 49:40
  enough expenses that you run at a loss every year or something.
• 49:47
  You know, expenses are always, always going to be there and you
• 49:50
  know there. There are always things that's
• 49:52
  that need to be, need to be paid, people that need to be
• 49:55
  paid. So you know in the step one is
• 50:00
  legitimizing it and from there everything will be a lot easier.
• 50:06
  So we are currently in the the process of of doing that and in
• 50:12
  the meantime we're trying to. Well, to legitimize ourselves as
• 50:17
  a as a tribe, as a group, our thing actually just released his
• 50:24
  book. He wrote his own book.
• 50:26
  I'm in the process of editing my own book at the moment.
• 50:31
  So you said no way. Yeah thing.
• 50:35
  It's like. What in English in the
• 50:40
  Anglo-Saxon times a Earl would be for example, yeah, so he's
• 50:45
  the second after the no Duke thing would be a Duke.
• 50:50
  He's the second thing, like second in command if you will,
• 50:53
  after the Earl. The yarl is his right hand man.
• 50:59
  Okay. So you guys have like a you
• 51:02
  favor a would you say, I'm gonna ask, would you say you favor
• 51:05
  like in terms of your leadership structure, titles and whatnot,
• 51:09
  does it mirror the titles or terms that we see in like
• 51:14
  Anglo-Saxon Heathenry so. We do try to do that, yes.
• 51:19
  So I call myself the yarl of the tribe of the Grand Pagans since
• 51:24
  I am the leader and founder. My wife is the the fru the FRU
• 51:31
  cuz she is the Euro's wife the thing.
• 51:36
  Our Duke and Anglo-Saxon nothing that may be a little easier
• 51:40
  since its English name is the the right Hand man of the year.
• 51:45
  All you know the second in command, if you will.
• 51:48
  We have Raven Raven, Wolf, Guard who is our 50.
• 51:56
  So our yeah, like our spiritual. Guide Well he does terror
• 52:04
  readings and all of that. So he's really in touch with
• 52:10
  with you know with the gods on the other side he's he's really
• 52:15
  in touch with the Mystic side. Yeah.
• 52:19
  And yeah, basically us for are the the core of the pagans of
• 52:27
  course along with. With Josh the Fain Josh his his
• 52:33
  wife Raven is still single so if there are any lovely ladies out
• 52:38
  there I'm sure he will We got we we turn in the we turn in the
• 52:44
  Random Heat and ramming podcast into what was that what was that
• 52:47
  thing back in the day boy we we would like you would call in and
• 52:50
  and hey ladies or hey gentlemen right whatever it was you know
• 52:54
  you would like those those dating hotlines you.
• 52:57
  Had so many first dating shows dating hotlines, it's like they
• 53:02
  were creepy back then. Boy, there were some weird ones.
• 53:05
  Oh yeah, there's some odd ones back there.
• 53:07
  So that's cool, man. Our, you know, so in in my part
• 53:11
  of the country, I feel fortunate to have become familiar with a
• 53:17
  lot of Heathen groups and believe it or not, like this
• 53:22
  part of the country gets referred to as the Bible Belt
• 53:27
  because every corner that you tone down, there's a church, you
• 53:29
  know what I mean? And it's very, very heavily
• 53:31
  influenced by Christianity. And if if you're looking for a
• 53:35
  church, you don't have to look far, you know what I mean?
• 53:38
  So I would say the majority of the population religiously are
• 53:42
  Christian to some degree. At some, you know at some point,
• 53:48
  however, there is a rich and vibrant community of alternative
• 53:54
  religions, not just European paganism, you know, so we have
• 53:59
  like Celtic groups. There are covens.
• 54:01
  There are Kindreds of of Germanic Heathens, one of which
• 54:08
  is ours of course, but there's another one that is in like
• 54:12
  about about 50 miles or so North East of of where I live.
• 54:19
  So it's in like the Middle Tennessee area but but in this
• 54:22
  area there are again small little secular Kindreds or
• 54:27
  tribes where one of them but one of the one of the more prominent
• 54:30
  ones, one of the one of the ones that do a lot of public events
• 54:33
  in our area is is about 30 miles northeast of Nashville, which is
• 54:38
  about 30 miles southeast of me. So I say you know 50-60 miles in
• 54:44
  in that vicinity and but I'm I'm fortunate to have again to to to
• 54:50
  been intertwined with with with so many different groups because
• 54:53
  there are regular just public meetups like today while I'm
• 54:58
  recording this there's a they call them P and O's or Pagan
• 55:01
  night outs but it's during the day where people just like meet
• 55:07
  up at a coffee shop or at A at a restaurant or something and just
• 55:12
  have have a meal just share time with somebody you know with with
• 55:17
  people And so they happen biweekly in our area and then
• 55:22
  there are actual like events that get put on by this group up
• 55:27
  in Springfield they're called Raven Moon Hearth and I'm
• 55:30
  friends with their Chieftain and I'm friends with their gothy and
• 55:34
  and then and other members of their of their kindred as well.
• 55:38
  But our our group is is is smaller you know we're we're not
• 55:41
  quite on that scale yet to to have land or or physical space.
• 55:46
  But we go and we attend and we see all kinds of folks show up.
• 55:50
  You know there are people that show up who aren't traditionally
• 55:55
  like hardcore Germanic Heathens. There are people that show up
• 55:59
  that have a bit more of an eclectic background.
• 56:03
  I've I've seen people show up there who really tap into their
• 56:09
  like African indigenous African side of things like they they
• 56:13
  come and they dress in there like traditional African garb
• 56:17
  you know to to these events and I'm like that's wild man.
• 56:20
  Like that's that's really cool that that it is it's really
• 56:23
  cool. It's great to see, like, you
• 56:25
  wouldn't think on the surface at least a lot of people wouldn't
• 56:27
  think that a group of Germanic Heathens or pagans who host
• 56:31
  events like this would attract or have anybody like outside of
• 56:37
  that world view of things come to their events.
• 56:41
  And yet here we are, you know, having people come in who find
• 56:48
  things about this path close enough to their beliefs that
• 56:52
  they're like, I want to come and experience this.
• 56:53
  I want to see what it's like. And I want to, you know, have
• 56:56
  that experience. And even if they don't you know
• 57:00
  commit 100% fully to their, you know the dramatic side of things
• 57:04
  at least it's giving them the inspiration.
• 57:06
  It's giving them the the desire to pursue things that are close
• 57:12
  to them that that speak to them, you know and it inspires them to
• 57:16
  want to embrace that side of their their heritage And and I
• 57:19
  think that's beautiful you know and we're very we're very
• 57:23
  inclusive in that way. We we want people to at least
• 57:26
  that's I say we but it's like the the the heart the Raven,
• 57:29
  Moon Hearth people they they they are very inclusive and and
• 57:33
  so are we. My my tribe is called 30 folk
• 57:35
  thunderingstorm people of the thunderingstorm and and we're
• 57:37
  we're also like yeah when we do things we're going to do it the
• 57:41
  dramatic way where we're going to hail the gods in in in that
• 57:44
  way. But we're also welcoming to
• 57:47
  people that want to come and say you know, be you know Celtic or
• 57:56
  Egyptian or or any other sort of polytheistic path.
• 58:02
  And it sounds a bit to me like you know with with the Grayhorn
• 58:05
  Pagans, you know the vision that you had to create this community
• 58:09
  of of an acceptable space for people to come and learn about
• 58:14
  things. Is, is, is, is similar would
• 58:17
  would you say that it has a very similar mentality or similar
• 58:21
  approach or or? Yeah, yeah.
• 58:24
  I mean, we're not strictly. About European paganism or the,
• 58:31
  you know, the European beliefs, I mean, just because it's, you
• 58:37
  know, run by European and other Germanic pagans and all, doesn't
• 58:41
  mean that it has to be strictly about that.
• 58:44
  I mean, like I said, we recently had a few more, few more people
• 58:50
  joining, one of whom a true shaman and he.
• 58:55
  You know, he got his, his training, he found his, his
• 58:59
  shamanism, did most of his work in India and Sri Lanka.
• 59:04
  And we have Buddhists, Hindu with a couple couple Hindus.
• 59:12
  People who just like don't really don't really know yet,
• 59:18
  but are trying to to find their path.
• 59:24
  Who are you know of course also most welcome.
• 59:26
  That's not the reason why I why I founded the Grand Pagans.
• 59:31
  To also be that space for people who like, who feel like there is
• 59:36
  more, who feel some sort of connection which is don't know
• 59:42
  what it is yet but you know you want to find out.
• 59:47
  You know, my wife, My wife was a witch.
• 59:50
  Of course, very, very eclectic. She works with or works with
• 59:56
  not. The writer was saying it, but
• 59:58
  she, you know, she does a lot with the the Egyptian pantheon,
• 1:00:05
  some of the the great gods and because of me is also learning a
• 1:00:11
  lot more and connecting more with some of the the Norse
• 1:00:16
  goddesses Freya. In particular, she's found a
• 1:00:19
  very strong connection with Freya lately, which makes sense.
• 1:00:29
  Yeah, the Voilva. The magical side of things that
• 1:00:37
  Freya is mentioned or attested to in the mythology.
• 1:00:43
  Yeah. So my wife is very eclectic.
• 1:00:47
  I am a dramatic Pagan at heart but you know seeker of noses.
• 1:00:51
  So I like dive into any and every rabbit hole that's that I
• 1:00:58
  can find. Yeah, we're we're pretty
• 1:01:04
  eclectic tribe like I I do indeed want to be A to be, to
• 1:01:09
  have it be a place for for all people, for all spiritual
• 1:01:15
  people, religious people worldwide.
• 1:01:25
  Yeah, you know, being respectful, I think that's the
• 1:01:28
  most important thing cuz like let's face it, like there are,
• 1:01:31
  there are things even, you know, if it works for some, it doesn't
• 1:01:37
  work for all. As long as you're just as long
• 1:01:21
  as you're accepting of others beliefs and don't make too much.
• 1:01:38
  And that's OK. You don't have to just be.
• 1:01:43
  Like, I don't have to accept everything, but I can be
• 1:01:47
  respectful of people's decisions.
• 1:01:49
  You know what I mean? Like, hey, I think you're an
• 1:01:51
  idiot and but I respect your decision to be an idiot.
• 1:01:54
  I mean, like, you know, I don't have to necessarily accept it
• 1:01:57
  and and and be like, oh, I think I'm going to do that.
• 1:02:00
  Like, no, I I mean, half of your barriers have your boundaries.
• 1:02:04
  I think that's, that's goes without saying.
• 1:02:06
  But you know not to be, Not to be.
• 1:02:12
  So so so far like so hardly driven like drawing the line so
• 1:02:16
  hard in the sand that it's because I've had I've I've
• 1:02:19
  experienced that and I don't know if you have to where like
• 1:02:21
  some groups or some people. It's it's again it goes back to
• 1:02:25
  that like absolutes dealing in absolutes.
• 1:02:27
  It's it's either this and that's it or it's not and that's it.
• 1:02:32
  There's a lot of things that happen in the Gray and one of
• 1:02:37
  the things that Paganism has taught me and and of course.
• 1:02:42
  My angle is Heathenry, dramatic Heathenry.
• 1:02:47
  But one of the things that it's taught me is what happens in the
• 1:02:51
  Gray. You know that there's a lot that
• 1:02:54
  goes on that you can't really definitively draw hard lines in,
• 1:02:59
  and some people want to get pretty, pretty aggressive.
• 1:03:06
  When it comes to that and be like, no, no, no, no, it has to
• 1:03:09
  be this thing that way or the other.
• 1:03:11
  I'm like, yeah, but why? Why?
• 1:03:13
  Really? Why?
• 1:03:14
  Like, why do we have to be so left or right?
• 1:03:19
  I mean, yeah, I mean some, even some Pagan groups manage to be
• 1:03:24
  dogmatic, which is just, yeah, I don't get that.
• 1:03:31
  That's what I think was what I was talking about with evens
• 1:03:36
  for, with an Honor. It started off as a, you know,
• 1:03:39
  as a really good group, you know, a bunch of really cool
• 1:03:42
  people who seem to know what they were talking about.
• 1:03:44
  But then, you know, as soon as Ego took over, it was, you know,
• 1:03:50
  their way and their way only. And if you try to bring anything
• 1:03:58
  outside of that in, you got a stern talking to and you know at
• 1:04:03
  some point I even, you know, I got called out in the in the
• 1:04:10
  admin, admin group chats that you know, I had to control my
• 1:04:14
  wife and I was like excuse me. Excuse me.
• 1:04:18
  Yeah, yeah. Now, you know, look, there's, I
• 1:04:21
  think, dogma, right? That's a topic that I've had.
• 1:04:26
  Haven't really like dived into too heavily the I I think that
• 1:04:31
  depending on the the angle that you're approaching Heathenry at
• 1:04:34
  you know I think that if you're open enough to to to the studies
• 1:04:40
  and the research of things I think that it's it's impossible
• 1:04:45
  for you not to see that dogma exists in Heathenry to some
• 1:04:48
  degree. There are certain things that
• 1:04:51
  are dogmatic about Heathenry, like if you look at.
• 1:04:57
  And this the the exact source is escaping me, but I want to say
• 1:05:00
  that it was Swedish in in its origin of winter nights and
• 1:05:13
  different times different regions celebrated different
• 1:05:16
  winter nights differently to the extent that like for instance I
• 1:05:20
  believe the Norwegians winter nights celebrations.
• 1:05:24
  Evolved to become a public affair.
• 1:05:27
  People would come and they would celebrate winter nights with
• 1:05:31
  everybody, whereas the Swedes, I think it was the Swedes.
• 1:05:34
  I don't want to. If anybody watches and listens
• 1:05:37
  and and catches this and then find something differently
• 1:05:39
  shared in the comments below, I want to say it was the Swedes
• 1:05:42
  where winter nights was strictly a family affair, to the point
• 1:05:47
  where if somebody came and knocked on the door trying to
• 1:05:49
  find shelter during their winter night celebration, you were
• 1:05:53
  turned away. You're like the hell of
• 1:05:56
  hospitality at this point. We're doing our winter nights
• 1:05:58
  things and you're not part of the claim.
• 1:05:59
  You're not part of the family. Get out.
• 1:06:02
  They they they get kept that that celebration.
• 1:06:04
  They they they kept it separate from everything outside.
• 1:06:08
  And that's dogmatic though. I mean that that's dogmatic to
• 1:06:10
  them. That was the we are absolutely
• 1:06:13
  not budging here on this particular thing.
• 1:06:16
  You know what I mean? And I think it's important to
• 1:06:19
  remember, too, like what we're looking at.
• 1:06:23
  In the time of when it was happening some so many things
• 1:06:27
  that I see happening nowadays is is is people.
• 1:06:29
  You know we're talking about reconstruction, revitalizing an
• 1:06:32
  old ways religion things that happened before Christianity,
• 1:06:37
  before the Viking age. You mentioned earlier about
• 1:06:39
  wanting to investigate and learn about things that happened prior
• 1:06:42
  to the Viking age when Scandinavia and these countries
• 1:06:45
  become became Christianized. When you start realizing like
• 1:06:50
  the, the, the various like regional and and.
• 1:06:53
  Closed off practices of of certain areas.
• 1:06:57
  Well why was it that way? That was also a very long time
• 1:07:00
  ago and and we're in now in modern times and it's you know
• 1:07:04
  that is it practical anymore to be that again to have that such
• 1:07:10
  a hard line drawn in the sand. I I don't know you know to some
• 1:07:16
  degree I think that preserving that the integrity of the
• 1:07:20
  belief, the integrity of the practice.
• 1:07:23
  For what it is is noble. I think there's there's, I think
• 1:07:27
  the intentions maybe are valid. But the purpose behind it, if
• 1:07:32
  you don't know, if you don't go into the purpose of why it was
• 1:07:35
  done back then and you're then you're missing the you're
• 1:07:37
  missing the mark. You're missing the point.
• 1:07:39
  Don't just do it because it was done that way 1000 years ago.
• 1:07:43
  Why was it done that way 1000 years ago?
• 1:07:44
  What was the purpose behind it and if you can develop your
• 1:07:47
  purpose now? And and and and apply it in a in
• 1:07:52
  a modern context that that works.
• 1:07:54
  Now understanding some of the worldviews of of the dramatic
• 1:08:00
  peoples and and and then and then seeing how it can transfer
• 1:08:05
  into a modern day worldview or modern day approach to things.
• 1:08:10
  And then by all means like you know I wouldn't stop anybody.
• 1:08:13
  But don't, don't, don't just like.
• 1:08:15
  Jump on this bandwagon of doing things because it was done 1000
• 1:08:19
  years ago and that's the only reason why we're doing it.
• 1:08:22
  Yeah. Now that's that's you know also
• 1:08:25
  one of the the bigger questions that I try to answer in or try
• 1:08:31
  to find some sort of answer in the tribe and on the podcast is
• 1:08:35
  how do we apply the the ancient knowledge in these times.
• 1:08:43
  You know as as you just explained like OK they did it a
• 1:08:47
  certain way. Why did they do it and how do we
• 1:08:52
  apply it to these times like we're living in you know 2023
• 1:08:57
  not 1023 times are different, times have changed and to like
• 1:09:04
  completely ignore that or just you know don't want to give in
• 1:09:10
  like oh this is how our ancestors did it.
• 1:09:12
  This is how how we are going to do it now that's that's not
• 1:09:17
  that's not possible anymore. You know, not like not
• 1:09:22
  one-on-one not not a carbon copy.
• 1:09:25
  Sure you can still you can still do things the way they did it.
• 1:09:30
  Of course, by all means do so. But you have to adapt.
• 1:09:36
  You have to adapt certain practices.
• 1:09:39
  You have to evolve with the times as well and you know when
• 1:09:44
  the the bigger questions in well I think like the whole big and
• 1:09:48
  revival is how do we do that how do we apply the knowledge and
• 1:09:53
  the ways of our ancestors in in these times because you know
• 1:09:58
  back then they they didn't have you know computers, podcasts
• 1:10:03
  whatever. I mean the heck, like even 20
• 1:10:04
  years ago we didn't have things like podcasts.
• 1:10:08
  Like how did The Tribes connects?
• 1:10:09
  Well, you know, either they already knew of each other, or
• 1:10:13
  they stumbled into each other, or you know.
• 1:10:17
  Yeah or there were there were annual assemblies like you know
• 1:10:21
  we have we have source sources that that confirm I believe it
• 1:10:27
  was it was with the the all thing you know so you had you
• 1:10:34
  had your all thing you had every year there was all the tribes
• 1:10:37
  would come together and meet at one place.
• 1:10:40
  And and that was, yeah, that was when the politicking was done.
• 1:10:45
  That's when you know, beefs were and all of that.
• 1:10:49
  So yeah, you didn't. You didn't have an online
• 1:10:52
  comment section that you could shit talk to each other in you
• 1:10:56
  know it was it was man you know a year ago you know Stein not to
• 1:11:02
  like I'm just using names alright Stein over here you know
• 1:11:05
  he he he he took some of my sheep and.
• 1:11:10
  We we didn't get to settle that. Well, now we're here at the all
• 1:11:13
  thing and Stein and Jesse are at the all thing.
• 1:11:15
  And by the way, you know, you owe me some sheep.
• 1:11:18
  So what are we going to do about?
• 1:11:19
  Are we going to go to war or are you going to pay a penalty or
• 1:11:22
  whatever? And that was the purpose of the
• 1:11:23
  old thing like they do all the all the things, but all the
• 1:11:25
  tribes came together. You took it out or you?
• 1:11:28
  Know right. And and that was, again, that
• 1:11:32
  was how things worked at the time.
• 1:11:34
  We're not in those times anymore.
• 1:11:38
  You know having having an all thing or calling it as such is
• 1:11:43
  cool right? Like it's great like oh wow cool
• 1:11:45
  like we're going to have this all thing where we're all the
• 1:11:47
  tribes of the of the region or something are going to are going
• 1:11:50
  to come but but why? Why are we having an all thing.
• 1:11:54
  Is it because this tribe and that tribe are having a beef and
• 1:11:59
  we need to settle it because it's doing damage to the overall
• 1:12:02
  larger community? Because when these two groups
• 1:12:05
  are are are feuding? It's it's it's not allowing for
• 1:12:10
  growth it's it's it's it's stifling the the progression of
• 1:12:16
  things right. And we need to we need to come
• 1:12:18
  to a an agreement of well once this thing happens once this is
• 1:12:23
  done it's done the the beef is settled.
• 1:12:25
  We we we've squashed it. Now let's move on, you know, or
• 1:12:29
  is it just this or is it just this thing where we're we're
• 1:12:32
  calling it an all thing and we're not we're not putting
• 1:12:35
  enough respect on that. And it's just an opportunity for
• 1:12:38
  people to hang out and drink and get stupid and crazy and do all
• 1:12:42
  kinds of bad things and and and further damage each other's luck
• 1:12:48
  and the luck, the collective luck of of tribes, you know,
• 1:12:52
  like it. I mean, if you want to do that,
• 1:12:54
  go right ahead. But then don't call it an old
• 1:12:56
  thing. Just call it a meeting.
• 1:12:57
  Call it the gathering, call it whatever you.
• 1:12:59
  Know. Don't call it a mood.
• 1:13:00
  Yeah, yeah, you know. There's a place for that, like
• 1:13:05
  there's, you know it's. Hey, I'm not saying like, don't,
• 1:13:07
  don't, you know, I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud here.
• 1:13:09
  Like, hey, sometimes it's really it's good.
• 1:13:11
  It's wholesome for people to gather and just have a good
• 1:13:14
  time, you know? Within reason and and and and
• 1:13:19
  have boundaries set and be respectful of course.
• 1:13:21
  But I mean that's what's what it is.
• 1:13:23
  That's what it's about. It's about gathering, having a
• 1:13:25
  good time, tying that kind of weird together like you talked
• 1:13:29
  about before that the the web and the the threads that get
• 1:13:32
  interwoven. It can do, really.
• 1:13:35
  It can do really good things. It could also do damaging
• 1:13:38
  things. If you're not careful and you're
• 1:13:40
  not, you don't have those safeguards in place.
• 1:13:42
  But it goes that again, it goes back to what I was saying about
• 1:13:45
  the gatekeeping thing or or being a gatekeeper is like,
• 1:13:48
  well, why? Why did the Swedes not want
• 1:13:51
  outsiders coming into their house during winter nights?
• 1:13:54
  Well, there was a purpose behind it, because that was for the
• 1:13:56
  family. That was, that was just for the
• 1:13:59
  family. Our families.
• 1:14:01
  You know it wasn't for anybody outside.
• 1:14:03
  It's like hey not trying to be a jerk but get out you're not
• 1:14:06
  welcome here you you've got 300 and some odd other days of the
• 1:14:09
  year that you could you know tough luck.
• 1:14:12
  Sorry Charlie. Like you know I hate it for you
• 1:14:14
  but you you're just not welcome here that we're doing our thing
• 1:14:17
  now and that's okay. It's it's it's fine.
• 1:14:19
  It's it's good to have those boundaries set and to be to be
• 1:14:25
  staunch in that, you know in in those in that context I feel.
• 1:14:30
  Yeah, in that area of. No, definitely.
• 1:14:33
  I mean, it's it's a religious feast just for the family.
• 1:14:36
  So keep it in the family or the family, you know, families of
• 1:14:41
  that village or tribe or whatever, you know, and
• 1:14:44
  outsiders, I'm sorry, you know, this is how we set our rules.
• 1:14:48
  This is how we set our boundaries.
• 1:14:50
  You're not part of it. Next time you know, try some
• 1:14:55
  other day. And that's so much of what we
• 1:14:58
  see, I think, on which, by the way, you said, you know your
• 1:15:01
  your Grayhorn pagans, the tribe of the Grayhorn pagans, as you
• 1:15:05
  call it. Where can people find you guys?
• 1:15:09
  We are on all kinds of different platforms.
• 1:15:13
  All can be found on our websites.
• 1:15:16
  WW grayhornpagans.com website is still fairly new.
• 1:15:23
  You know, everything things and trying to make it make it look
• 1:15:29
  nice and have everything on there like we were on so many
• 1:15:32
  different platforms. And scatter that I was like, you
• 1:15:34
  know, we just need a websites where I can put it all on and
• 1:15:38
  then people can go to the website there.
• 1:15:41
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just so much easier.
• 1:15:44
  Otherwise, it's a whole like laundry list.
• 1:15:45
  OK. So we're on that platform, we're
• 1:15:47
  there, you can find us here and there.
• 1:15:49
  It's just like, no, go to wwdotsgrayhornpagans.com.
• 1:15:55
  That's where all the links are to, you know, personal links to,
• 1:16:00
  you know, our blogs, St. Josh's book to, you know, social
• 1:16:06
  platforms that we are on the podcast can be found on there,
• 1:16:10
  of course. So yeah.
• 1:16:15
  Awesome. So then people that are
• 1:16:18
  listening and watching head into the description show notes area
• 1:16:23
  of the podcast and. Grayhornpagans.com is the is the
• 1:16:29
  website and and that's where you can find everything about what
• 1:16:33
  Stein here is talking about. And it doesn't matter where you
• 1:16:37
  are in the world. From the sounds of it, you know,
• 1:16:38
  you can be in the United States, you can be in Europe, you can
• 1:16:42
  learn more about what these folks are doing.
• 1:16:45
  You can be a Penguin on the South Pole for all I care.
• 1:16:50
  I mean, that's a bit much. Man, you never know, man.
• 1:16:53
  There might be some Penguins down there looking for a
• 1:16:54
  community. You never know, right?
• 1:16:57
  That would be a first. I'm definitely one of the kind
• 1:16:59
  that. Would be That would be.
• 1:17:03
  Well, this has been a lot of fun, man.
• 1:17:04
  I appreciate you coming on and sharing with the world what's
• 1:17:09
  going on in your neck of the woods, but how you're attempting
• 1:17:13
  to branch out and reach more people.
• 1:17:17
  And also I'm really glad to hear that you're also looking at the
• 1:17:20
  the grassroots aspect of things. You know, I'm having things
• 1:17:24
  established for people on the ground because there's there's
• 1:17:32
  there's a lot of this stuff online nowadays and and and
• 1:17:35
  people think that once they're joining a group online or
• 1:17:39
  they're in a Discord server or a Facebook group or whatever.
• 1:17:45
  That yes, I am now a member of the tribe and I am, you know, we
• 1:17:49
  are brothers and sisters and rah, rah, rah.
• 1:17:51
  And I'm like, I mean, I don't, I don't want to speak on behalf of
• 1:17:57
  all dramatic heathens or or or be this like spokesperson for
• 1:18:01
  Heathenry by any means. All I'm saying is that no, that
• 1:18:05
  ain't it, buddy. That that's not it.
• 1:18:08
  You have to be with people in person to experience these
• 1:18:13
  things, at least to that degree. Have that community on the
• 1:18:17
  grassroots level because that's how it was done that that's
• 1:18:21
  that's where this all comes from.
• 1:18:23
  And yes we are modern heathens. We we live in modern times.
• 1:18:26
  We are practicing old ways in modern times.
• 1:18:29
  Many of us again revitalizing trying to to to reconstruct or
• 1:18:34
  or revitalize these these ways. But that it's very root and it
• 1:18:37
  and at the very core it it has to be something that you share
• 1:18:41
  with people face to face. And if people that are like you
• 1:18:46
  or others are out here building an online community to help
• 1:18:50
  network and and show case the the ability to do that and and
• 1:18:54
  establish things at the grassroots level, then I'm all
• 1:18:56
  for it. And so I'm glad to hear that
• 1:18:59
  you've got that envision that you're not just like let's get
• 1:19:03
  10,000 people in our Discord server and now we're, you know,
• 1:19:07
  where we're taking over the world guys like maybe not, you
• 1:19:12
  know, it's a good start of course to yeah, it has its place
• 1:19:16
  together in those online communities.
• 1:19:19
  It's a good place to kind of get to know people at first.
• 1:19:23
  But yeah, it's a start. You know it's something.
• 1:19:26
  It can be a foundation built from there.
• 1:19:30
  Yeah, and again, it has its place.
• 1:19:32
  I've become friends with people to the extent that you can be
• 1:19:36
  online because of the modern conveniences of social media.
• 1:19:42
  I've also been able to establish really meaningful Frith bond,
• 1:19:46
  Frith bonds with people at the grassroots level because of
• 1:19:50
  this. You know, it didn't it it
• 1:19:52
  started online, but it didn't end online.
• 1:19:55
  We were we're, you know, we we we made the efforts to connect
• 1:19:59
  physically and and become something of what our ancient
• 1:20:05
  ancestors had. You know the the the sense of
• 1:20:07
  community, the the meaning of tribe.
• 1:20:12
  You know having the people that you can rely on who rely on you
• 1:20:16
  that reciprocal existence that it it's it's it's paramount I
• 1:20:25
  think to to developing our our worldviews and and refining our
• 1:20:30
  worldviews and becoming heathens and and pagans ourselves that
• 1:20:35
  reflect the way it was done in in in bygone days.
• 1:20:40
  You know we're just showcasing the the the modern flair of of
• 1:20:45
  it now and and and showing you know stuff like this didn't
• 1:20:49
  happen. You know, like you said, you
• 1:20:50
  know, even as early as, you know, 20-30 forty years ago, you
• 1:20:53
  know, people didn't have this kind of interaction like we're
• 1:20:55
  having here now. It was, you know, letters in the
• 1:20:57
  mail or, you know, and it and it took months if not longer to get
• 1:21:03
  people together like that. But I think it's interesting
• 1:21:07
  how, you know, back in the day where, you know, communities
• 1:21:10
  were much close, much more closely knit, you know, villages
• 1:21:14
  and and and whatnot where the miles between them, the the the
• 1:21:19
  kilometers between them, the distance I say between them
• 1:21:22
  wasn't very vast. You know, it it, it may have
• 1:21:25
  taken a day to get to you, but that was, you know what, maybe
• 1:21:29
  10 miles, 15 miles apart because you had to walk.
• 1:21:32
  Yeah, it's like a horse, you know?
• 1:21:35
  And now here we are. You have to.
• 1:21:37
  Take professions for continents. Yeah, but.
• 1:21:40
  And now here we are, continents apart, thousands of kilometers
• 1:21:44
  apart, thousands of miles apart, having real time conversation.
• 1:21:49
  It's wild. It's wild.
• 1:21:50
  And a little ocean between us. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:21:55
  So using these things and leveraging them to connect in
• 1:22:01
  such ways, I think helps. Yeah, showcase again the sense
• 1:22:07
  of community as it was. It doesn't.
• 1:22:09
  It doesn't replace that interpersonal, grassroots level
• 1:22:12
  thing. Let me be clear, It doesn't
• 1:22:14
  replace it, but it really helps with growing it in that way and
• 1:22:19
  allowing it to expand for people so.
• 1:22:22
  Yeah, it helps getting a community together from which
• 1:22:25
  you can build. It's also fine and dandy to.
• 1:22:31
  I don't want a tribe, but I don't want to have that, to
• 1:22:35
  build it up from the grassroots level.
• 1:22:36
  But you gotta have support. You gotta have people
• 1:22:39
  interested. You gotta have now.
• 1:22:41
  You gotta have your people. Yeah.
• 1:22:44
  You gotta have your people, man. And the people that you have
• 1:22:47
  have to trust you. You have to trust them.
• 1:22:49
  There has to be this reciprocity, you know,
• 1:22:54
  obligation, understanding that sort of thing.
• 1:22:56
  Like if I need you, I can know I can rely on you.
• 1:22:59
  If you need me, you know you can rely on me.
• 1:23:01
  Like there's there's all of that that becomes integral with this.
• 1:23:09
  But this has been great, man. I appreciate you coming on
• 1:23:11
  today. Hang on just a minute while I
• 1:23:14
  sign everybody off. But yeah, any any last words
• 1:23:16
  that you'd like to tell my audience or or or share with the
• 1:23:20
  world before I wrap this up today?
• 1:23:23
  Ohh, that's that's a good one. No I just want to I want to
• 1:23:29
  thank you for for having me on and it's it's been great and I,
• 1:23:35
  you know I look forward to to a possible next time because I
• 1:23:41
  think we like we can definitely build build on this and yeah you
• 1:23:47
  know good luck with your with your group with your Kindreds
• 1:23:51
  and I hope you you make something great of it.
• 1:23:55
  Thank you and same same to you as well it's very ambitious with
• 1:23:59
  what you have with the Grayhorn Pagans and I hope that the good
• 1:24:04
  that you're wanting to come of it it comes to fruition.
• 1:24:08
  So that's the point to you with that.
• 1:24:11
  Thank you. That's that's the spirit.
• 1:24:13
  So everybody pleased to check out the description or show
• 1:24:15
  notes of the podcast and check out Grayhorn Pagans online.
• 1:24:20
  Follow along with what they're doing.
• 1:24:21
  Stein here. Thank you so much for for taking
• 1:24:23
  time out of your day all the way in the Netherlands to to speak
• 1:24:26
  with me today here in Murfreesboro, TN.
• 1:24:29
  It's been wonderful and I appreciate it.
• 1:24:31
  Thank you for everybody, yes Sir and for everybody else that's
• 1:24:34
  out here listening and watching today, thank you for your
• 1:24:36
  constant support. Check the description, show
• 1:24:38
  notes for the link tree, link to all the ways that you can
• 1:24:41
  support Mid Garden Musings and the Random Heathen Ramblings
• 1:24:43
  podcast as a whole. Follow me on all the socials, do
• 1:24:47
  all the things that these fickle algorithm gods so and graciously
• 1:24:50
  demand, And until we see each other again, the gods continue
• 1:24:55
  to notice you, and may your ancestors smile upon you.