Latest / The Price of Music / Coldplay's first single is now worth *how much*? The best new band Steve's seen in months; An AI vs human band dust up; A splendidly indignant speech from RAYE; and Steve & Stu vs ‘Baby Shark’

Transcript

Coldplay's first single is now worth *how much*? The best new band Steve's seen in months; An AI vs human band dust up; A splendidly indignant speech from RAYE; and Steve & Stu vs ‘Baby Shark’ · The Price of Music

0:07
Hello and welcome to The Price of Music, brought to you by
0:10
Music Ally, the show that's fascinated by all the fun and
0:13
games and finances of the music world as explained each week by
0:17
me, Steve Lamac and him Stuart Dredge.
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If you want an easy guide to what's going on in the music biz
0:22
and how it all works and how the figures stack up, then here we
0:26
are this week when a proper AI versus human band dust up some
0:31
changes at Spotify. Another splendidly indignant
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speech from the singer Ray and the Grateful Dead can sing a
0:38
rainbow, sort of. But first, here's our big figure
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of the week. Well, it's a it's a small
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figure, but it's it's big for what it my big figure this week,
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4750 lbs. That's 4750 lbs, which is
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Stuart. I'll tell you it's what it's how
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much a copy of the debut EP by Coldplay will set you back.
1:05
The only copy of their self financed CDEP, the safety EP,
1:10
the one copy that's currently available on the website Discogs
1:13
is on sale for 4750 lbs And I don't, I don't know how long
1:20
it's been on. So I mean, I thought this might
1:23
just be somebody taking a chance, having a punch, but but
1:26
I was chatting to A to a guy I know who works part time in a
1:29
second hand record shop at a gig last night, which by the way,
1:34
write this one down. I saw a band last night called
1:37
Little Granddad. No idea how they how they came
1:41
across that name, but Little Granddad write it down.
1:44
They were very, very good. Possibly the best new band I've
1:48
seen in months, I think. Anyway, So before, before they
1:51
went on, we're having this conversation about about second
1:54
hand records. And I said to him, how much, how
1:58
much do you think a copy of Coldplay's safety EP would go
2:01
for? And he said close to 5000 lbs.
2:05
So it does appear to be the the going right.
2:08
Yeah, nearly five, nearly 5 grand.
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And can I just make 2 very quick points here before we get onto
2:13
the news. 15 grand is about 3 times what it costs them to
2:18
press the entire run of the CDs in the 1st place because I think
2:24
the entire, but I think they pressed 500 copies.
2:27
This is around May time, I think 1998.
2:30
Phil Harvey, who was Chris's mate, lent them the money to do
2:33
it and I think it cost 1500 to make the CDs.
2:37
Phil obviously went on to be the nature after after lending them
2:40
the money. But but two second point, we did
2:44
an interview not long after the EP came out when they made their
2:48
Radio 1 debut. And they did say at the time
2:52
that that all the CDs had pretty much sold out at that point.
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So it's not like there's a box of them still sitting under will
2:59
the drummer's bed or anything. So I think it is officially
3:03
rare, whether it's 5 grand rare or not, I'll guess we'll see
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what's the most valuable record in your collections.
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We'll have a think about it. Might be something we come back
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to in this week's Lock In. But first some serious stuff.
3:15
Then Stuart, this week's three big news stories and the first
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of them actually, this I think has an actual big figure in it.
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But the AI band Bleeding Verse have clocked up hundreds of
3:25
thousands of listeners on Spotify, which means they now
3:29
have more listeners than the band who inspired them.
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So the band, the actual band holding Absence, who are the
3:38
main influence for this AI project, they are well
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understandably not very happy. Not happy at all.
3:46
Well, this is a really fascinating story because yeah,
3:49
bleeding verse it's an alt rock emo project.
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They've got like just over 927,000 listeners on Spotify and
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that's not about the debut album came out in July.
4:00
It's weird. We'll get to this later in
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luckily, but saying their debut album when they aren't real Yeah
4:06
and yeah and holding absence they have about 852,000
4:10
listeners. So yeah, this AI project has
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75,000 more people listening to it than the Bandit inspired it.
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And a guy called Lucas Woodland, he's a front man of holding
4:18
absence and he took to X in some dungeon saying this is shocking,
4:23
it's disheartening, it's insulting.
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And he kind of made this call to arms of basically oppose AI
4:28
music or bands like us stop existing.
4:30
And he's is bleeding versus music.
4:34
Is it recognisably indebted to holding absence?
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Would you say I? Mean it's definitely in the same
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genre ballpark. And I mean, it's, it's
4:46
presumably it's been, I mean, we don't know exactly what software
4:48
has been used, but it's probably been used in something that has
4:50
been trained on Holding Absence and a whole bunch of other bands
4:53
in that kind of emo or territory.
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So it's hard to say. It's not like it's, it doesn't
4:59
seem like a parody, but I mean, there's been some back and forth
5:03
and the person behind Bleeding Verse has talked.
5:05
Clearly the person behind Bleeding Verse likes Holding
5:09
absence and I think he's said one of my favourite bands.
5:12
So there is definitely some inspiration there.
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I mean, to describe what this is.
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So there's some disclosure here, it's not being hidden.
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So and if you read the biography A Bleeding Verse, it says right
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at the end human lyrics turn to songs with the AI.
5:27
So it is a human writing the words, but the music has all
5:30
been created with, I mean, I would assume it's Suno or some
5:33
similar service. And the follow on from this is
5:38
that the the creator of it has just announced he's got a label
5:41
deal. Yeah.
5:43
So it's a company we've talked about.
5:44
It's a company called Hallwood Media.
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It's set up by this former Geffen Records executive.
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And they've been signing a succession of these Gen.
5:51
AI projects. So we talked about, do we talk
5:53
about a singer called Zania Monet recently?
5:56
Well, she's 1 of theirs. They also recently signed a
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British guy called, I'm Oliver, who's like a SUNO, somewhat
6:04
usual SUNO. So this company is essentially
6:07
rolling up anyone who shows they've got a bit of traction
6:10
with AI music and so this is the latest example.
6:13
So so this has been independent till now.
6:15
I think we've put music on Spotify and listeners, but now
6:18
they've got this company behind them.
6:20
Wow. I mean, this is off the back of
6:22
something else. You've been hearing rumours that
6:26
suggest that the major labels could actually be on the verge
6:30
of signing their first licensing deals with AI music companies.
6:36
Yeah, well, this was, it's more in the rumour, actually.
6:37
It's the Financial Times saying they're nearly at the finishing
6:40
line of agreeing deals. This was last week.
6:43
So yeah, I mean, we've we've talked ever since this podcast
6:45
began about what the music industry wants, haven't we?
6:47
Like the music industry wants licensing deals.
6:49
It doesn't want AI companies to train on this music without
6:52
permission. It wants payment, you know, it
6:54
wants proper deals. And yeah, it's so it's it's
6:57
Universal Music and Warning Music.
6:59
So two of the three major labels said they're close to deals and
7:02
it mentioned a bunch of companies it mentioned.
7:05
So there were three companies, 11 Labs, Stability AI and Clay
7:08
Vision. And these are AI music companies
7:11
or AI companies who've actually been doing things the right way
7:14
so far. They've been looking for
7:15
licensing deals. So I guess you would put them in
7:17
the camp from the music industry's point of view of good
7:19
guys, but also Suno and Udio, who the music industry is suing
7:23
for copyright and feud. They were listed as two of the
7:25
companies that might be reaching deals.
7:27
It also mentioned Spotify and Google, which is kind of
7:29
fascinating, but there wasn't much more on that, on what they
7:32
might be doing. But and what it said was that
7:35
the majors are looking for a model like streaming music.
7:38
So whenever an AI song is played on one of these these platforms,
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there'll be a royalty payment to the music industry, which is
7:47
going to be fascinating because that is is quite a big technical
7:50
challenge. So say I go onto a platform like
7:53
Suno, I make a song, it gets played by someone else
7:57
understanding every input, like understanding well, that was
8:00
influenced by a holding absence for 0.1% and the Black Crows for
8:03
700% and this for that. That's quite a difficult
8:07
technical challenge if you haven't built that in from the
8:09
start. So that would need to be solved
8:12
if there were licensing deals to mean that the payment went out.
8:16
Is the feeling within the music industry though, Is there some
8:19
urgency? We want to get something done
8:21
because this is going to, this is the influence of AI is
8:25
sprawling across the music, you know, scene at the moment, and
8:29
we've got to get something done as soon as possible.
8:33
And maybe we'll just have to retrospectively kind of fit it
8:38
around what's what we need from it.
8:40
I think there is that and I think there's also this
8:42
emergency because I think if you're, if you're suing AI
8:45
companies saying you're not licensing music, part of that or
8:49
something that will bolster your case is if you have signed
8:51
licensing deals. So you can say, look, it's
8:53
possible to license music for this kind of company.
8:56
Look, here are those deals we did over here.
8:58
So that's part of it. They want to kind of show that
9:00
they are willing to license if someone is going to get enough.
9:03
I mean, the other thing I think this is if this, I mean, if this
9:06
happens, I mean, the FT was pretty sure that they're in the
9:08
final stages. If this happens, I think you're
9:11
going to see a new round of arguments involving artists and
9:14
songwriters on one side and labels on the other.
9:17
And. The reason for that is this
9:20
whole drive to sign licensing deals with the AI industry has
9:23
been about permission, payment and transparency.
9:26
You know, you've got to ask permission, you've got to pay us
9:28
fairly, and you've got to be transparent about what your
9:31
training, your things are. And I think what's going to
9:34
happen is that the bodies representing artists and someone
9:36
else will turn around now to labels and pubs and say, right,
9:38
so you're doing these deals with the AI companies.
9:40
Well, how do we get permission and payment and transparency?
9:43
You know, are you going to ask us if we agree to our music
9:47
being used to train these things, how are you going to pay
9:49
us? And are you going to be
9:50
transparent about your deals with these companies so that we
9:52
know how much is getting paid and whether we're getting a fair
9:54
share? Yeah.
9:56
And I mean, surely there must be a point as well where managers
9:59
and artists will demand that something like that is written
10:02
into their contracts as well their actual recording contracts
10:05
that they sign, which has a box saying I agree or disagree when
10:10
it comes to my music being utilized by AI.
10:14
And that's it. Or I should have the right to
10:16
agree on each deal. I mean, let's think about it
10:18
like it's going to be, it could be a mess.
10:21
Because if imagine if you're like Universal Music Group and
10:23
you signed a deal with someone like Suno, Do you now go back to
10:26
all your artists like past and present and say, right, your
10:29
music's included, Sorry, you don't get to opt out of this.
10:32
We've done a deal and we don't have to ask for permission.
10:34
That might be legally true if it's not in the contracts, but
10:37
it's optically it's, it's pretty terrible.
10:40
Or do you say you can opt out if you want?
10:42
And that's what some book publishers who've signed deals
10:44
have done. They've said to the authors,
10:45
like, we've done this deal, it's this much per book they're going
10:48
to train on. But you can opt out and say no
10:50
thanks. But then think about music
10:53
publishing, like where like, you know, think about how many big
10:56
pop hits nowadays have 3-4 more writers.
11:01
So if one of those writers said I don't want to have my stuff
11:03
used to train AI, does that mean that all the recordings of that
11:06
song can't be used? Like, like it could be a big
11:08
mess. So I think it's really good that
11:09
deals are being done. Like deals are about the no
11:12
deals as as Noel Edmonds will tell you, hang on, I've got it
11:15
wrong. Is no deal better in deal or no
11:18
deal? Because if you say no deal, it's
11:19
because you're anyway. Just cut focus on the subjects,
11:24
yeah? It's basically, it's good that
11:26
deals are being done, but I think it is going to open up a
11:28
whole new vein of industry discussions and tensions over
11:34
how those deals work for the actual musicians.
11:36
Leads us quite nicely into Story 2, where which finds the singer
11:40
Ray once again standing up for songwriters rights.
11:44
I mean, she's got form for doing this, but she's been waving the
11:47
flag for songwriters again, I think in the last week or so.
11:51
Yeah, well, The thing is that I think I wrote this in a piece,
11:53
if you give Ray an award and a microphone, she is going to
11:56
stand up for songwriters rights. Like she's done it at the Brits.
11:58
She did it at the Iva's Awards. And then, yeah, last week
12:01
there's an Iva's Academy Honours event, which is kind of a new
12:04
event they're doing to kind of celebrate songwriters for their
12:06
work, but also for their, their, you know, their, their advocacy.
12:11
And yeah, she basically got said, like, I know I might be
12:13
being annoying, but I'm going to say it again.
12:15
And, and she made a speech that was about publishing splits.
12:19
So how the royalties for publishing and divided between
12:21
songwriters are divided between. And she basically said the
12:25
industry's become exceptional, dividing us and pitting US
12:28
against each other. And I think we need to get
12:30
together and we need to go back to labels and say, no, actually
12:33
we're standing up for what we think is right.
12:36
And she was very, yeah, she was very kind.
12:39
She sort of talked about some of the the the tactics she's
12:41
identified as where, for example, some writers get
12:43
pressured. They have to say, right, you
12:44
have to agree to this split this, this royalties deal today
12:47
or we're not putting the song out.
12:49
Or if you don't approve this, we're never going to use you
12:51
again. She was sort of talking about
12:52
the pressure that some writers failed to agree to things that
12:54
maybe aren't fair. So, yeah, I think it's, well, I
12:59
mean, every time you do this, it gets reported.
13:00
It's, you know, it's shining a light on some of these
13:02
practices. I mean, there was another thing
13:03
recently, I don't know if you've seen this, this debate online,
13:07
people muttering about how there are people who have songwriting
13:10
credits who maybe didn't have any part in writing the song,
13:13
whether that's the artist who's who's recorded the song, who's
13:17
said, and this was what I need to have a share of the
13:19
songwriting or even industry executives.
13:21
There've been a couple of stories in magazines like
13:23
private about, well, there are some songs where one of the
13:26
published, one of the credited songwriters is actually just the
13:29
A&R who wanted a slice of it. So there's there's a lot of
13:32
this, there's activism starting about actually how a songwriter
13:36
is getting a bad deal or possibly being ripped off.
13:38
And someone like Ray, I think she's at the peak of her ability
13:41
or no, maybe not the peak. I mean, she's still on the up,
13:45
but she is one of the the most high profile voices to speak out
13:47
and say, I don't think this is right.
13:49
And here's what I think we should do about it.
13:51
Story 3 And this is something that has been rumbling on for
13:55
months now, isn't it? Certainly since the back end of
13:57
last year, I think we first covered this, but more than 100
14:01
independent music companies and organisations have launched a
14:05
Block the Deal website with with the deal in question, it's that
14:10
Universal Music Group acquisition of Downtown Music.
14:14
Refresh everyone's memories of what this story is all about.
14:20
Yeah, so Virgin Music Group, which is part of Universal
14:22
Music, is wants to buy Downtown Music Group for hundreds of
14:25
millions of dollars. And Downtown Music is a very
14:28
important company in the independent music world.
14:31
It has it has like a distribution arm, CD Baby, it
14:34
has publishing arm. It has a bit that collects
14:37
royalties for independent artists and songwriters.
14:40
So it's got all these fingers and different pies for how
14:42
independent music companies and artists making money.
14:46
And so there's been this process, the independent voices
14:48
saying, actually, we don't think this this should be allowed
14:50
acquisition. It will give universal too much
14:51
power. And what's happened now one, the
14:55
one of the, the arguments in recent months from the Universal
14:58
side has been, well, the people opposing this deal don't
15:01
represent all the Indies. You know, a lot of Indies are
15:04
happy with this. And this is kind of robust to
15:06
that. It's this website called Block
15:07
the deal and it is a high that seems to be like 100 voices.
15:10
So it's opinions from 100 people in independent music, from
15:14
people like Martin Mills of Beggars Group, Alison Wenham of
15:17
Chrysalis Records to real industry veterans through to
15:19
chiefs of the industry bodies, but also smaller labels, smaller
15:23
artists from across Europe. And it's, it's a very, so I'll
15:27
pick my words carefully here because obviously it's it's this
15:30
is a, it's a very testy subject. It's a really good way of
15:35
getting a sense of the different reasons why these independent
15:38
music companies are crossed about this deal and worried.
15:41
And it's stuff from what will happen to the data of our
15:44
independent artists. Will Universal be able to use
15:45
that data against us somehow through to concerns about
15:49
cultural diversity? Would you give too much power to
15:52
a major label? Does that mean that some of the
15:53
independent voices and the new niche music won't get its chance
15:57
to shine? So if you read all 100, which
16:00
actually I have been doing this week because I want to write a
16:01
piece about it, it's a very, very good overview of This is
16:05
why people are cross about. If anyone's sitting there going,
16:07
why are people cross about this deal?
16:09
What are the exact complaints? It's a very good primer on that.
16:12
And one thing I'm going to do this week, I'm going to, I'm
16:14
going to try and write a piece that kind of summarises that.
16:16
I think it's about 5 different arguments, but also there are
16:20
several arguments that have been made in favour of the deal by
16:22
Universal and people within it. So I'm going to try and write a
16:25
piece just presenting all these so that people can understand
16:28
because I, I've realised it's been a big headline, you know,
16:32
Indies don't like this deal, but a lot of people still don't
16:35
really understand the exact things and outs of why and what
16:38
is a defence. And so I think that's what we're
16:40
seeing now is both sides trying to put their views as clearly as
16:43
possible while the regulators in Europe are deciding whether they
16:46
should block the deal or let it go through that this is may come
16:49
soon. One of the things here is not
16:51
just that, obviously if if downtown passes into the hands
16:56
of Virgin slash Universal, then you know that's that's a lot of
17:01
independent routes to market sort of gone because it's
17:05
controlled by a major label. Surely one of the other things
17:09
is all these independence to go downtown at the centre of it is
17:14
part of an independent scene that needs some of its own power
17:19
when it comes to arguing deals with some of the major
17:24
corporations. And if you take a big player
17:26
like downtown out of the equation and the Indies have
17:30
less, less to bring to the table, less power in, you know,
17:34
an argument over royalty rates or something with a big company.
17:38
I think that's part of the problem, is it?
17:40
That's definitely, yeah. And, and there is a counter
17:42
argument to that, which is come from the US side saying there's
17:44
still a lot of choice out there, a lot of other options.
17:47
And that is one of the strands of arguments that's happening.
17:49
You know, if if downtown becomes part of Virgin Music group, part
17:52
of UMG, what is left independent to use?
17:56
They say there's still plenty of options.
17:57
And if you don't want to be part of UMG, you can leave.
17:59
So this is all being argued in public.
18:01
You know, I mean, I mean, so they didn't predict quite that.
18:04
If you don't like it, you. Can close the door but I suppose
18:07
one of the things one of the arguments is like you have the
18:09
right to leave if you don't want to be part of this I mean and
18:12
that is the thing I mean this is again this this has been kind of
18:14
a very personalized argument about Universal Music Group.
18:17
But I think when you when you read this book deal site you
18:19
understand that these concerns are about the just other deals
18:24
before that. So there've been a whole raft of
18:26
deals where major levels have bought independent distribution
18:29
companies, for example. So Sony bought the Orchard is a
18:32
good example. And so it's it's not just about
18:36
Universal Music, it's about the wider trend of these things keep
18:38
getting snapped up. And if you're an artist now, the
18:42
choices you have, a lot of them are major labels.
18:44
And that is OK. I mean those, that's the other
18:47
thing. The other reason this is called
18:48
such bitterness so far is there are really good people working
18:51
in the major labels on these, in these bits that handle
18:54
independent artists. There are great people working
18:56
at Virgin Music Group who love independent music.
18:58
Same at the Yorkshire within Sony.
19:00
Like there are a lot of independent labels and artists
19:02
who are very happy, who don't mind working through those
19:04
companies because they're they feel they're getting rewards.
19:06
But I think the wider concerns are if this keeps happening, we
19:10
won't have the, it will become a choice where you, you can't
19:13
really go outside because the biggest independent distributors
19:16
are all within majors now. So I get both sides of that.
19:18
You know, it's not, it's not about the people who work for
19:20
universal and independent music. It's about the wider, the wider,
19:24
I guess, direction and how, like you say, how many options are
19:27
open to you if you're independent.
19:28
Yeah. Any other business this week?
19:31
I mean, we should, we should, I mean, this is a kind of proper
19:35
industry story, but we should mention the fact that Daniel Eck
19:40
is, well, stepping down as Spotify's CEO.
19:44
Well, he's sort of stepping down.
19:46
This, this I tried, I was trying to read into what this story
19:51
really means, but I probably need your your your help here
19:56
for me, for a, for a start, has this announcement got anything
19:59
to do with obviously recently artists quitting Spotify because
20:04
of X outside links with defense drone technology and the like?
20:09
Do you think it's this is a very measured announcement to try and
20:14
ameliorate some of the Flack that he's been guessing and the
20:17
company by the end of his involvement has been gaining?
20:21
Well, I mean, the major reason this happened was because I'd
20:23
had a good day of finishing deadlines and thought I had a
20:26
quiet afternoon ahead. So of course, Daniel Leck
20:29
resigned just to kind of no. So I mean, it's been presented
20:33
very differently. So it's been presented as this
20:35
is a long planned transition. He's stepping up to executive
20:39
chairman. And these two guys, Gustav
20:41
Soderstrom and Alex Nordstrom, who are both fellow Swedes,
20:44
they're long, long time Spotify executive, working there since
20:47
the very early days. In fact, there was an interview
20:48
where they said that Daniel Leck set up their computers for them.
20:52
That's how early they were at Spotify in the days when he was
20:54
running around doing the IT support.
20:56
And they're going to be Co CEOs, which is like a little trend in
20:58
tech and medium like that Co CEOs, which I always, I always
21:02
look at that and go, what happens when they disagree?
21:05
But they'll still be reporting to Daniel Eck.
21:08
And they've also, this is going to be this.
21:09
They described it as like a European model where the
21:11
executive chairman is still quite hands on.
21:14
So he's not left, he's not resigned and left Spotify.
21:18
He's still and they're still going to be reporting to him.
21:20
So in that sense, it's more of a a shuffle of job titles.
21:24
I mean, surely he'll still be the public face of the company
21:27
as well though, and see. So, so I don't it doesn't feel
21:30
like as big a change as they're making out or whether he does
21:35
just want to move back, step back into the shadows a little
21:39
bit. But will that happen?
21:40
I think it is that part. So part of it was like they're
21:42
going to be handling the day-to-day operations and that
21:44
and then he's going to be thinking more about long term
21:46
strategy and what to do, but also his other stuff.
21:48
And that's where this, this arms question comes back in, because
21:52
I mean, this kind of thing, I don't think it happens suddenly
21:55
by surprise, you know, so I'm, I, I do actually think it's,
21:58
it's a, it's a fair argument that they've been planning this
22:00
for a while. He has been doing other stuff
22:02
outside Spotify. He's got, he's got a health
22:04
company, a health tech company. He's been investing a lot of
22:06
time and money and he's doing this.
22:08
So he he's been doing other stuff and so him step stepping
22:12
aside isn't a surprise in that sense.
22:14
It feels like a right time. But it is also true that I think
22:17
as we've been talking recently, the fact that one of his
22:19
external things is investing in an arms company and being it's
22:22
chairman, it started to have an effect on Spotify in that you
22:26
had deer hoof leave, then you had King Gizzard and the lizard
22:29
Wizard leave, then massive attack.
22:31
And that was like a gradual step up in the profile of artists.
22:35
So I don't know if it heads that off.
22:37
Like I'm not sure Massive Attack will come back because don't
22:40
like it's got a different job title.
22:42
I'm not sure Taylor Swift was ever going to leave because of
22:44
the arms thing. So I'm not sure this changes
22:47
that. But it does maybe take take him
22:51
out of the kind of he won't be the he won't be the public face
22:54
of the company as much. It will be these two other guys.
22:56
And maybe from Spotify's point of view that will be a little
22:59
change that maybe it will hope dampens down this issue, but I
23:04
don't know if it changes much. Talking of Spotify, now this is
23:09
interesting. There's good news this week.
23:12
If you're somebody like ourselves who, when you get to
23:16
Spotify, rapt, you get to the end of the year or during the
23:20
year when you get constant musical recommendations, which
23:23
are based on the music that your kids have been listening to.
23:27
So if your recommendations in Spotify are full of, I don't
23:31
know, Mr. Tumble and Paw Patrol and Stuart's favorite Baby
23:34
Shark. Good news, Good news for you.
23:38
Very good news. Do you know I've only just got
23:40
YouTube to stop recommending me Minecraft videos And the reason
23:44
And my kids are 16 and 18 now. Like it's taken 10 years for it
23:47
to go, oh, maybe you're not interested in that because it
23:49
was your kids a decade ago. So I think once your kids start
23:52
playing stuff on your profile of any digital service, the
23:55
algorithm is like, aha, you must want more Paw Patrol all the
23:59
time. So, yeah, so Spotify, it's a
24:01
very small thing, but I think again, for for listening to your
24:04
parents, it's big. You can now exclude any track
24:06
from your taste profile. And your taste profile is what
24:09
Spotify understands about you. So your habits.
24:13
And so you can say, right, I don't want to have Paw Patrol in
24:15
my taste profile. That was my kids.
24:17
And this is part of a bigger trend, seeing it on social media
24:21
apps too. This is a way of saying, you
24:23
think you know this about me, but it's wrong.
24:25
Stop. You can do it.
24:27
You've been you have to do it on Amazon for a while now, saying
24:28
this was a present purchase. I don't actually like Illinois
24:32
Devo. That was my nan's birthday
24:33
present every year. Yeah, so, but this is this is
24:36
coming to Spotify. It's happening on social media.
24:38
This idea of algorithms aren't as clever as we sometimes think
24:43
they are. They just see us doing something
24:45
and think, right, OK, more of that then.
24:47
And I know from friends who've who've because no one gets their
24:50
toddler Spotify profile of their own until it's too late.
24:54
And so I have many friends who are like, oh God, I mean, this,
24:57
this album is now in my it'll be in your discover weekly.
24:59
It'll be in your release radar. Oh, that's a new trap from the
25:02
Paw Patrol crew. So I think it's it's a nice
25:06
welcome thing, but it does it's like a bigger story, I think
25:08
about how once you become a parent, your algorithms and not
25:12
necessarily your algorithms anymore, they're they're the
25:16
real boss of the houses. There's one other thing just to
25:22
finish with this week, I'd just like to say thanks to.
25:25
Well, thanks to everybody who got in touch following last
25:28
weeks podcast where we talked a little about the decline in paid
25:32
music journalism. Well, music journalism in
25:35
general was certainly paid music journalism, Jim was one of them.
25:38
Thank you. Thank you, Jim.
25:40
We probably don't have time to get through all your points, but
25:43
there's a couple of interesting ones.
25:45
Jim says this isn't such. Actually, it's remarkable and
25:49
rarely acknowledged that for about 20 years, the UK was
25:52
served by no fewer than four weekly music papers.
25:55
Enemy Melody Maker Record Mirror Sounds, for once of another
26:00
word. That's a huge amount of content
26:03
every seven days. But one wonders why the weekly
26:05
music press was peculiar to the UK.
26:08
It's strange, for example, that there was no equivalent in
26:11
America and to what extent its existence here helped foster new
26:16
music. Because, says Jim, I imagine,
26:18
had a huge impact, he goes on. Steve talked about readers
26:22
buying the weeklies for the Gig Guide and the news, whether
26:25
reflected in the readership surveys or not.
26:27
Another big pre Internet reason for buying them for me,
26:30
certainly says Jim, was to discover what new bands sounded
26:33
like. A journalist reviewing a single
26:35
from an unheard of act and comparing them to say Big Star
26:40
or Talking Heads would often be enough for me to take a chance
26:43
and go and order the record. You'd learn which journalists
26:46
had similar tastes to you and which ones you trusted to steer
26:48
you towards new stuff. In this regard, the emergence of
26:52
streaming and with it the ability to listen to any song
26:55
instantly and for free is probably another major reason
26:58
why the weeklies died off. Thank you very much, Jim.
27:01
I mean, obviously I agree with that, that point definitely,
27:04
don't you? I mean, it's the availability of
27:07
music which certainly undermined quite a lot of what the music
27:11
papers were attempting to do. I mean, and that, that is
27:14
exactly demic. I remember I remember even now
27:17
when I was about 17, Bernard Butler talked about Nick Drake
27:21
in an interview with the enemy and I was like, Nick Drake,
27:24
who's that? You know, I went, I bought his
27:25
album. Then I went out, got got a bit
27:27
drunk that night, came home and was reaching that kind of
27:30
slightly morose come down part of having been out and then
27:34
listened to Nick Drake for the first time.
27:36
And you know, it was like woof for 17 year old me.
27:39
Wow. That was how I used them.
27:41
But I mean, I think do you remember when there was a time,
27:43
wasn't there when American bands would come over here to break
27:47
because we had those weekly. Like, I think that's Kings Of
27:51
Leon, wasn't it? They came over here and they
27:52
toured the UK because the papers jumped on them and then they
27:54
went back to. The US and everyone did didn't,
27:57
I mean, because you know, particularly, um, particularly
28:01
bands from New York who no one knew of even in New York, even
28:05
the Strokes weren't big in New New York and certainly fun
28:07
loving. I would ever heard of fun loving
28:09
criminals in New York. But yeah, well, this is the
28:11
thing. So going back to what Jim was
28:13
saying, I'd say about the music papers, is it just a, is it just
28:16
a cultural thing or is it partly because America is just so big?
28:21
So it's it's incredibly hard to cover anything creative.
28:25
Imagine. I mean, it's hard enough to
28:26
cover, you know, politics and news in a national newspaper,
28:30
but when it comes to music, because tastes vary so warm
28:33
wildly from coast to coast that, you know, with the exception of,
28:36
I suppose Rolling Stone is the one which the Americans had and
28:40
there were alternative magazines, but it's but they
28:44
were more genre specific, I think because it's incredibly be
28:47
so difficult to reach and reward audiences across the States are
28:52
all looking for different things.
28:53
But I mean, because it was, I mean, it was hard enough
28:55
balancing the demands of a different readership in Glasgow
28:57
and London, you know, with their different perspectives on music.
29:00
But imagine trying to write articles that appeal to East
29:04
Coast cool kids, but also the Bible Belt of Middle America.
29:07
I mean, that's, that's, that's, I mean, sorry, Jim, that's the
29:11
only thing I can come up with. But we'll take we'll take others
29:13
here. I just think we're a smaller
29:16
country. It's slightly easier to maybe
29:18
find a consensus. And As for, for the second
29:20
point, once again, I shall reference our IPC Magazine
29:25
research which, and This is why research is, is rubbish.
29:30
But we mentioned last last week when when asked the, the
29:34
readership, when asked what do you buy the Enemy for?
29:36
And it's gig guide news, the crossword right at the bottom of
29:41
that list would be interviews or reviews of new bands.
29:46
But at the same time, there was another set of questions about
29:50
what would you like to see more of in the Enemy each week.
29:54
And right near the top would be new bands.
29:57
And that's contradictory nature of audience research right
30:00
there. What what do you, what do you,
30:02
what don't you like new bands? What would you like to see more
30:06
of new bands? I mean, honestly, it was the
30:09
same every time they did any of this research.
30:12
But again, you know, Jim's right, isn't he?
30:14
I think maybe I didn't get this point across enough last week.
30:18
But but aside from Pale and then the Evening session, various
30:21
local radio shows, you know, and before obviously streaming, the
30:25
music papers were a great place of discovery.
30:29
And yeah, you're absolutely right.
30:30
If you found a writer whose reviews and opinions chimed with
30:33
yours, you would use them as a kind of touchstone, wouldn't
30:36
you? They were for recommendations.
30:38
I mean, there was a guy called Dave McCulloch, A journalist
30:40
called Dave McCulloch, who wrote for Sounds at the start of the
30:43
80s, who's responsible for quite a bit of my record collection.
30:46
Yeah, it was tribal, wasn't it? As well you were, I mean even
30:48
down to point you were an enemy reader or merely make a reader.
30:50
And I, I think I, I bought both of them, but everyone would felt
30:54
one or the other. It was your tribe, wasn't it?
30:56
I think even where wherever you were in the UK, which I mean
30:59
that probably did happen in the US, but like you say, it would
31:01
have been maybe regional fanzines rather than any kind of
31:03
national publication. But you'd have, yeah.
31:06
Whereas nowadays, maybe, I don't know, maybe that maybe that's
31:09
not how we put ourselves in tribes anymore.
31:11
It's not about what we read, it's about other things.
31:14
And I suppose coming back to the original point from last week
31:17
and when we're just not paying for someone's opinions, finally,
31:22
finally this week, the Grateful Dead's new marketing
31:27
partnership, right. Are you ready for this,
31:29
everybody? What's, how do we describe it?
31:33
It's, well, it's colourful, Stuart.
31:36
It's very colourful. So this is a partnership with
31:39
Pantone, who most people I think will know from the company that
31:43
invents lots of colours. So if you're going to buy
31:45
paints, you go and get, look at the Pantone chart and say, yes,
31:48
I'd like eggshell blue, not sky white.
31:53
So that's what they're, they're, they're colours companies
31:56
essentially. But they've done, they do this
31:58
stuff with artists occasionally. Yes, the grateful to collaborate
32:00
with them on 2 new colours, which are called Grateful Red,
32:04
obviously. Grateful Red.
32:08
Yeah, and, and steely blue and steely being a famous, the
32:12
famous logo of the band. It was on all their albums,
32:15
right? And, and so they've done these
32:17
colours, they've announced it, but there's a whole range of
32:20
merchandise like T-shirts and hoodies and mugs.
32:23
And so I wrote a story about this and I said you can buy
32:25
actual paint. And it's only today when I was
32:29
coming on to do this crap that I realised it's not actual paint,
32:33
it's a scented candle in a paint pot like packaging.
32:37
So I told. Them.
32:38
Well, they haven't, actually. I told the world.
32:42
I told the world you could you go?
32:43
Anyone who's gone and bought that for $30, we'll just get a
32:45
candle and be furious. We're going to we're going to
32:49
retouch the front room. I know now that they can just
32:52
make it all just smell different.
32:55
I mean, this is like Pantone did.
32:56
They did something with The Rolling Stones, the one with
32:58
print. Well, the one with the Prince
33:00
estate back in the day, which you could probably guess which
33:01
colour that was. Yeah, absolutely.
33:04
So it's yeah, yeah, yeah. His famous, his famous orange.
33:09
So I think yeah, the great. It's a it's AI.
33:11
Don't know. I like, I like the idea.
33:12
I'm trying to think of which bands I like and Colours and
33:14
puns, but I'm really out. But by next week I am to come
33:17
back with some good band. Colour well, it's something else
33:21
you can think about. Well, this is something for for
33:23
everyone and you can play this with on your own or with
33:27
friends. Have you ever played band name
33:29
snooker? That's always fun when you have
33:31
to try and get a maximum break with using bands names so you.
33:36
So firstly you'd have to three colours red.
33:40
So pop 3 colours red, then onto Yellow Magic Orchestra, then
33:45
back for, I don't know, simply red and you go through the
33:49
colours and eventually get to the get to the black.
33:51
There you go. That's, that's something.
33:53
If you're bored at any point this week, band named Snooker,
33:57
we're out of time. Thank you very much for
34:00
listening. If you are enjoying what we're
34:02
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Tell your friends, leave us a review online, repost our show
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34:31
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34:49
That's the Price of Music podcast@gmail.com coming up next
34:53
week, by the way. And we haven't done this in an
34:56
IU, but we're dedicating next week's podcast to the subject of
35:01
live festivals, exploring all the the facets of the festival
35:07
circuits and all the challenges it's facing at the moment.
35:11
With our interview, guest John Rostrum from the Association of
35:15
Independent Festivals will be talking to us and that should be
35:18
properly fascinating, I hope. Till then, take care of
35:22
yourselves. Everybody.
35:23
Have a good week, bye for now.