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Cancer Scam · The Knife: A True Crime Podcast

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Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.
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Speaker 1: The claims and opinions in this podcast are those of
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Speaker 1: the speaker and do not necessarily represent The Knife or
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Speaker 1: exactly right media.
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Speaker 2: And they dance together. People are crying, you know, because
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Speaker 2: everyone knows she's got cancer. And I mean she's acting
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Speaker 2: like her husband has the wholder.
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Speaker 1: Of Welcome to the Knife. I'm Hannah Smith.
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Speaker 3: I'm Patia Eaton. In twenty twenty, after a tragedy Shukro,
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Speaker 3: Ohio community, d Lan attended a local fundraiser to show
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Speaker 3: her support. At the fundraiser, de met Lisa tik Kumayer,
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Speaker 3: a wife, mother of two, and devoted community volunteer. The
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Speaker 3: two quickly became friends and soon began and volunteering together.
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Speaker 1: Then tragedy seemed to strike again. Lisa announced that she
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Speaker 1: had been diagnosed with cancer. As friends, neighbors, and strangers
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Speaker 1: rallied around her, d stepped up to help as well,
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Speaker 1: organizing fundraisers and raising thousands of dollars for Lisa's care.
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Speaker 1: But as time went on, small inconsistencies began to emerge.
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Speaker 1: D found herself questioning things she once accepted without hesitation.
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Speaker 1: The more she tried to make sense of Lisa's story,
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Speaker 1: the more tangled it all became. Before long, Dee was
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Speaker 1: no longer just supporting a friend. She was caught in
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Speaker 1: a controversy that divided her community, left her doubting her
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Speaker 1: own instincts, and even led to accusations against D.
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Speaker 3: Let's get into the interview. D, thank you so much
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Speaker 3: for taking the time to speak with us today. Absolutely,
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Speaker 3: would you mind telling us just a little bit about
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Speaker 3: yourself and where you're from.
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Speaker 2: My name's Dorothy Lynn, but I go by D Lenn.
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Speaker 2: I live into Little Ohio. It's a very tight knit community.
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Speaker 2: Everyone is very willing to help people.
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Speaker 1: Have you lived in Toledo a long time? How long
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Speaker 1: have you lived there?
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Speaker 2: Pretty much my whole life.
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Speaker 1: D is exactly the kind of person makes her community
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Speaker 1: so tight knit. She's quick to get involved with community
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Speaker 1: events and the first to volunteer to help someone who
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Speaker 1: might be in need. Within just a few minutes of
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Speaker 1: speaking with D, it's easy to feel like you've known
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Speaker 1: her forever.
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Speaker 3: I get the feeling. D has a lot of stories,
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Speaker 3: but this one begins in the summer of twenty twenty,
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Speaker 3: when a tragedy struck in Toledo.
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Speaker 2: July for twenty twenty. It'll be a day that almost
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Speaker 2: everyone in this community will never forget, because that was
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Speaker 2: the day that we lost Officer Anthony Dia. He had
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Speaker 2: a call to check on the wellness of someone and
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Speaker 2: he was trying to talk to the guy and the
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Speaker 2: guy went to his car and he out a weapon
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Speaker 2: and he shot the weapon.
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Speaker 3: It was twelve thirty am when Officer Anthony Dia arrived
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Speaker 3: at a hardware store parking lot to perform a wellness
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Speaker 3: check on a man who seemed to be intoxicated. When
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Speaker 3: Officer Dia approached him, the man suddenly pulled out a
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Speaker 3: gun and shot Officer Dia in the chest. Bystanders tried
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Speaker 3: to help an Officer Dea was rushed to a local hospital,
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Speaker 3: but he died shortly after as a result of the
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Speaker 3: gunshot wound. Anthony Hussein Dia was twenty six years old,
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Speaker 3: a highly respected officer and also a member of Toledo's Arab,
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Speaker 3: American and Islamic communities. He left behind his wife and
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Speaker 3: their two young children.
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Speaker 2: He touched so many lives, not just in the community,
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Speaker 2: but the men and women he worked with. Any of
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Speaker 2: his sergeants or lieutenants, even the chief of police would
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Speaker 2: tell you that they would have a whole force of
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Speaker 2: Anthony DIA's because he was that good at an officer.
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Speaker 2: He cared. He wanted to be part of the change.
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Speaker 2: He wanted to be the one to make the change
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Speaker 2: in Toledo, to bring people together and care about people
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Speaker 2: and stop the crime, and you know, just be human.
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Speaker 3: But there was something else that made his death stand out,
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Speaker 3: not just in Toledo, but internationally. As he lay dying
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Speaker 3: in the parking lot, Officer Dia sent a radio transmission
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Speaker 3: with his final words, tell my family, I love them.
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Speaker 2: And there is a song that was written for him,
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Speaker 2: and it's nationally on the radio stations, on country radio stations.
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Speaker 2: It's called tell my Family, I Love him. Because those
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Speaker 2: were his last words. It was just unbelievable to see
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Speaker 2: how the community reacted just that night, coming together hearing
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Speaker 2: that radio transmission on the news, it was just heartbreaking
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Speaker 2: and everyone started taking flowers up there, paying their respects.
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Speaker 3: How did people come together to then support his fellow
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Speaker 3: officers and his family members.
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Speaker 2: All we started doing rallies and support of the whole department,
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Speaker 2: of all first responders, not just police and for his family.
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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, there was so many people to reach out,
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Speaker 2: you know, wanting to know what they can do.
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Speaker 1: I wonder if his death would have garnered as much
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Speaker 1: attention in the community had it not been that period
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Speaker 1: of time, because I imagine police officers had been shot previously
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Speaker 1: in the line of duty in Toledo, but it was
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Speaker 1: such a heightened time in our country. I mean, I
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Speaker 1: think myself and many people were so horrified by the
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Speaker 1: death of George Floyd and the videos, and there was a,
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Speaker 1: in my opinion, rightful anger toward some of the mistreatment
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Speaker 1: that we'd seen run rampant. But then I also so
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Speaker 1: know that there were many people in law enforcement and
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Speaker 1: first responders who felt very attacked by that movement, and
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Speaker 1: many communities who felt attacked. And so I'm curious if
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Speaker 1: you think that, because of the national environment at the time,
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Speaker 1: that there was even more of a response to his death.
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Speaker 1: And maybe there would have been if it had happened
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Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen, maybe not, But I'm just curious to
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Speaker 1: what your thoughts on that are.
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Speaker 2: I think there still would have been a huge response
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Speaker 2: just because here people who had will say run ends
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Speaker 2: with Anthony. He got called to their home or whatever,
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Speaker 2: or he was at an accident scene, or they got
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Speaker 2: pulled over. I mean so many people came forward saying,
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Speaker 2: oh my god, you know he was amazing this one on.
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Speaker 2: You know, whatever the situation was for them, I think
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Speaker 2: the Anthony won. I think, no matter what he was
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Speaker 2: doing in his life at that time, time to hear
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Speaker 2: those words tell my family, I love them. I think
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Speaker 2: his death would have made an impact on this community.
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Speaker 3: We all remember the summer of twenty twenty. Many of
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Speaker 3: us were in lockdown due to the pandemic, and then
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Speaker 3: came the murder of George Floyd by a police officer.
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Speaker 3: Millions of people across America filled the streets of their
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Speaker 3: cities and small towns. Protesters wanted police reform, to end
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Speaker 3: police brutality, to defund police departments. It was a reckoning
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Speaker 3: of an inherently racist system. But pretty quickly there was
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Speaker 3: also a counter movement, a fierce show of support for police.
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Speaker 3: Anthony DA's death was an indisputable tragedy, and emotions were
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Speaker 3: already running high. It seemed like all of Toledo wanted
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Speaker 3: to show their support for law enforcement and for Anthony
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Speaker 3: DIA's family. A whole community mobilized. One local fundraiser in
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Speaker 3: particular made headlines. A seven year old boy had set
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Speaker 3: up a lemonade stand and raised nearly two thousand dollars
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Speaker 3: for Anthony DIA's family. His mother, Lisa Tikameyer, proudly helped
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Speaker 3: him serve the lines of people waiting to donate. Do
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Speaker 3: you remembers it well? But everything is not always as
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Speaker 3: it seems. And where most saw a generous and trusting community,
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Speaker 3: someone else saw an opportunity.
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Speaker 2: Lisa Tickameyer's son started a lemonade stand in honor of
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Speaker 2: Anthony to raise money for the family. Cars were lined
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Speaker 2: up all the way down her street just to get
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Speaker 2: a couple of lemonade. But I mean people were giving
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Speaker 2: lots of money for this couple of lemonade. It wasn't
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Speaker 2: like a quarter for a lemonade. It was just really
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Speaker 2: amazing to see a child out there doing it. You know,
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Speaker 2: We're all like, wow, these parents are raising this young
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Speaker 2: man really well for him to want to do this.
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Speaker 2: I just thought, you know, this kid could be out
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Speaker 2: playing with his friends at summertime and here he's standing
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Speaker 2: there in the heat selling lemonade to raise money to
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Speaker 2: give the money to another person's family that lost their
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Speaker 2: loved one. I don't know if you ever watched the
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Speaker 2: show Little House on the Prairie, That's what the family
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Speaker 2: reminded me of because they were all so loving and
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Speaker 2: caring and you know, and I was like, Oh, it's
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Speaker 2: like the Little House on the Prairie here, you know.
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Speaker 3: Pretty quickly, Lisa Tikkameier and her family became a known
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Speaker 3: entity in Toledo for their philanthropy. A local radio station
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Speaker 3: called them pillars of the community. And then in January
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Speaker 3: of twenty twenty one, another police officer, Brandon Stalker, was
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Speaker 3: killed in the line of duty. Lisa put together a
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Speaker 3: hot cocoa stand to raise money for his family, and devolunteered.
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Speaker 3: The two quickly struck up a friendship, and then Lisa
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Speaker 3: wanted to throw yet another fundraiser in March of twenty
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Speaker 3: twenty one, and once again de stepped into help.
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Speaker 2: And we did Hot Cocoa and Dogs that March. It's
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Speaker 2: so crazy because that short period of time of getting
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Speaker 2: a knower, she shows up for the Cocoa and dogs
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Speaker 2: and she tells me she has cancer, and I'm like,
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Speaker 2: oh my god, what are you doing here? Go home
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Speaker 2: and be with your family. She's like, no, if I
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Speaker 2: talk to them, and we'd rather do this to keep
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Speaker 2: our minds busy and not think about it. I'm like, okay,
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Speaker 2: you know who might argue with her, you know, so
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Speaker 2: I'm like trying to do everything I can for trying
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Speaker 2: to get her just to relax, you know, sit down. Whatever.
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Speaker 2: You just told me you have cancer. That's huge.
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Speaker 3: Do you recall any details about what Lisa told you
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Speaker 3: about her cancer diagnosis, if any? At the time, it
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Speaker 3: sounds like your friendship was very new and she discloses
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Speaker 3: that she has cancer. Does she tell you what kind
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Speaker 3: or any sort of prognosis.
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Speaker 2: Not At that point in time, she told me she
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Speaker 2: just got diagnosed. She did tell me that that's how
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Speaker 2: she's not it. I just got diagnosed with cancer.
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Speaker 1: Do you remember if there was anyone else around, like,
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Speaker 1: were her parents there to hear that, or was it
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Speaker 1: just a moment of just you and.
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Speaker 2: Her, just me and her. She pulled me aside and
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Speaker 2: said I got to talk to you, and I'm like, okay,
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Speaker 2: and I thought this is weird, you know, because we're
11:21
Speaker 2: not that quote.
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Speaker 1: Okay, because I was just curious if she told a
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Speaker 1: lot of people at that event or just you and
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Speaker 1: you don't know at that point, who knows what? Like
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Speaker 1: who knows that she's sick and who doesn't know? And
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Speaker 1: it's not something that you're going around talking about.
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Speaker 2: Right, I mean, I don't know if she told other
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Speaker 2: people that.
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Speaker 3: De immediately began organizing a fundraiser for Lisa and her family.
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Speaker 3: She knew that going through cancer treatment would be difficult
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Speaker 3: and expensive, even with insurance, and she wanted to offer
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Speaker 3: Lisa's family some financial help, especially with everything that Lisa
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Speaker 3: had done for her community. Do you called up Tony Dia,
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Speaker 3: the father a fallen officer, Anthony ta who had founded
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Speaker 3: a nonprofit in his son's name. D had become close
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Speaker 3: to Tony and often volunteered for his nonprofit. She asked
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Speaker 3: Tony if he'd liked to partner with her to throw
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Speaker 3: Lisa a fundraiser? And what is Tony's response to that?
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Speaker 2: Absolutely, whatever you want to do, We're going to do it.
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Speaker 2: D We got to help her out. That's horrible, and
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Speaker 2: I'm like, I just can't imagine telling my young children
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Speaker 2: I have cancer. I just can't imagine that. The following week,
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Speaker 2: she went to the doctor. Oh, they gotta start treatment
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Speaker 2: right away. It was non hotchkins lavoma. It's not good.
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Speaker 2: And all of a sudden, you know she's doing treatment
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Speaker 2: and oh, I'm so sick. It was like it went
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Speaker 2: from you look healthy to oh my god, she's like
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Speaker 2: definitely sick now. She would tell me she was up
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Speaker 2: all night throwing up. Thank God for her husband and
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Speaker 2: he's rubbing her head all this stuff. That was always
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Speaker 2: I'm sick at night, in the middle night. She was sick,
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Speaker 2: not around me, not during the day, because she started
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Speaker 2: coming over to my house, hanging out, sitting in my
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Speaker 2: massage chair, and I was fine with it. You know
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Speaker 2: you're sick, go ahead, you know, I'm good with that.
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Speaker 3: Lisa told D she had cancer in March of twenty
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Speaker 3: twenty one, and quickly after their lives became intertwined. Lisa
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Speaker 3: would call de regularly and update her on her cancer journey,
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Speaker 3: confiding in D about how her appointments were going. D
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Speaker 3: frequently checked in on Lisa and also checked in on
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Speaker 3: Lisa's husband and their two boys. Over the next few
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Speaker 3: months into the summer, the community once again rose to
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Speaker 3: the occasion, setting up fundraisers and meal trains all to
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Speaker 3: support Lisa and her family through the scary and difficult time.
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Speaker 2: All these people are helping her raising money for at
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Speaker 2: the school. Her husband was a soccer coach, so the
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Speaker 2: soccer team and the soccer moms all wanted to do something.
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Speaker 2: The radio stations Kate one hundred, iHeartRadio, they all wanted, Oh,
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Speaker 2: we got to do something for this woman. Oh my god, honey.
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Speaker 2: There were so many people that would drop off food
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Speaker 2: or gift cards to get food. I remember being at
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Speaker 2: our house one day because a friend of mine he
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Speaker 2: had did meal preps for, you know, for like lunches
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Speaker 2: because it was summertime. So she did some lunches for
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Speaker 2: and I took them to her and I'm like, oh
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Speaker 2: my Godly, So, you gotta tell people quit bringing you food.
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Speaker 2: I mean, refrigerator was pet. They had one in the basement.
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Speaker 2: It was pecked. I'm like, this food's gonna go to waste.
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Speaker 2: There's too many people hurting right now to let this
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Speaker 2: food go to waste. You gotta tell people to stop.
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Speaker 2: Oh no, you don't know how Ryan needs. This food
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Speaker 2: will be gone in no time. I'm like, Lisa, this
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Speaker 2: is a lot. Plus you got gift cards. Just take
15:09
Speaker 2: a little break from it, but she didn't want.
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Speaker 3: To these interactions with Lisa at her home where you're
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Speaker 3: seeing physically how much food is in the fridge, and
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Speaker 3: that she has normal room, What does she look like?
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Speaker 3: What is her sort of energy level seemingly look like?
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Speaker 2: In that moment, it seemed fine. I mean she would
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Speaker 2: sit there and say she's tired, but she would continue
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Speaker 2: to go, go go. Then she showed up one day
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Speaker 2: and so she went to go get her hair done
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Speaker 2: and they had to just cut it all off because
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Speaker 2: her hair was falling off that bad.
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Speaker 3: Does Tony Dia end up holding a fundraiser to raise
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Speaker 3: money for Lisa?
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Speaker 2: Yes, we did do a fundraiser, was at my friend's bar.
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Speaker 2: It was hated.
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Speaker 3: D knows how to organize people and throw a great
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Speaker 3: fundraiser and this one was no exception. After the event,
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Speaker 3: D and her volunteers counted all of the money that
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Speaker 3: had been raised. They carefully marked each envelope with the
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Speaker 3: amount of money inside, and then put all of the
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Speaker 3: envelopes into a lock box. D has a very specific
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Speaker 3: system for how she handles money during these fundraisers. But afterward,
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Speaker 3: Lisa reached out and asked if D could deliver all
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Speaker 3: of the money that had been raised that night to
16:29
Speaker 3: her at her home. Immediately, D thought this was strange.
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Speaker 3: Why did Lisa need all of the money right now
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Speaker 3: at ten pm? But she agreed and drove it over
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Speaker 3: to Lisa's. Part of D's system included then recounting all
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Speaker 3: of the money and all of the envelopes as she
16:46
Speaker 3: handed it over to the organization or, in this case,
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Speaker 3: the person who she was raising money for. This is
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Speaker 3: how she's always done it. D's credibility is very important
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Speaker 3: to her. She has always taken seriously the responsibility of
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Speaker 3: encouraging people to donate their hard earned money. She knows
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Speaker 3: that transparency is everything.
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Speaker 2: After all said and done, we count all the money,
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Speaker 2: everyone would verify each envelope head what was written on
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Speaker 2: that envelope, and then we would distribute it after her event,
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Speaker 2: I took it to Lisa's house. No one touched it.
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Speaker 2: It was in the back of my gee. Took it
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Speaker 2: there and ride away. Her husband's like, rip and open
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Speaker 2: the envelopes. I'm like, whoa stop. We need to open individually,
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Speaker 2: count the money, and verify that what's written on the
17:39
Speaker 2: envelope is what's in the envelope. So that's what we did.
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Speaker 3: How much money did you raise for Lisa?
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Speaker 2: I can't remember the exact total. I haven't written down.
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Speaker 2: It was a lot.
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Speaker 3: Can you give me a ballpark?
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Speaker 2: I'm gonna say just from that fundraiser, like seven thousand,
18:01
Speaker 2: just that fundraiser.
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Speaker 3: So you're bringing a lot of cash, like actual cash
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Speaker 3: to her home.
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Speaker 2: And that's not counting the money or checks that people
18:12
Speaker 2: personally gave them at the fundraiser because they were there.
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Speaker 2: At the fundraiser, Lisa and her husband, the DJ actually
18:20
Speaker 2: played a song last dance and they dance together. People
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Speaker 2: are crying, you know, because everyone knows she's got cancer,
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Speaker 2: and I mean she's acting like her husband has the
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Speaker 2: holder of.
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Speaker 3: So Lisa and her husband at this fundraiser during this
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Speaker 3: you know dance where everyone's feeling really emotional watching them dance,
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Speaker 3: Lisa's husband is having to really hold her up in
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Speaker 3: that moment physically because she appears very weak from her
18:50
Speaker 3: cancer treatments. And so when you get to their house
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Speaker 3: that night, what does she seem like then?
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Speaker 2: Bye? I mean she ACKed like she was tired, but
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Speaker 2: I was tired too, but nothing like it was there
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Speaker 2: and the public eye you know what I'm saying. And
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Speaker 2: I mean I wasn't there right away after the event
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Speaker 2: because we had to clean up, but she wanted the
19:16
Speaker 2: money over there that night, and I'm like, okay, okay,
19:21
Speaker 2: so we did that.
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Speaker 3: D couldn't figure out why Lisa needed this money so urgently.
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Speaker 3: Do you had thrown lots of fundraisers and never encountered this.
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Speaker 3: She wondered if maybe Lisa just didn't trust her. But
19:34
Speaker 3: like D You explained, she has a pretty robust system
19:37
Speaker 3: of checks and balances to make sure all of the
19:39
Speaker 3: money makes it to the police or person that people
19:42
Speaker 3: are donating to. So it bothered D that Lisa was
19:46
Speaker 3: acting this way. Lisa had told multiple people that her
19:49
Speaker 3: insurance wasn't covering most of her treatment costs. But even so,
19:53
Speaker 3: d You got a funny feeling. It seemed unusual that
19:56
Speaker 3: Lisa would need to pay a medical bill at eleven PM.
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Speaker 2: And I'm like, Lisa, I'm already in bed. I told
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Speaker 2: you I was coming home and going to bed. She
20:06
Speaker 2: wanted me to get out of bed for her to
20:07
Speaker 2: call here. She just wanted that money. I was at
20:10
Speaker 2: work and she's like, when you go to be home
20:12
Speaker 2: from work and I'm like, when I get off work,
20:14
Speaker 2: and she knew I'd worked a lot of hours, so
20:17
Speaker 2: she finally came here. I got the money after I
20:20
Speaker 2: was off work, and I'm like, oh my god, calm down.
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Speaker 3: This was now a few months into Lisa's cancer treatments,
20:28
Speaker 3: and d you couldn't help but start to feel a
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Speaker 3: little suspicious. Lisa's behavior was odd. For one, when she
20:35
Speaker 3: saw Lisa in public, Lisa would act very sick, like
20:37
Speaker 3: at the fundraiser when she danced with her husband, but
20:40
Speaker 3: he had to physically hold her up because she was
20:42
Speaker 3: so weak. But then later at Lisa's house, Lisa was
20:46
Speaker 3: walking just fine. Lisa often told Dee how sick she felt,
20:51
Speaker 3: but do you realized that Lisa still never seemed sick.
20:55
Speaker 3: When it was just Dee and Lisa, Lisa felt fine.
20:58
Speaker 3: It was only when they were in public and other
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Speaker 3: people were watching that Lisa seemed to be unwell. It
21:05
Speaker 3: was also strange the way that Lisa was so eager
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Speaker 3: to get her hands on the money from these multiple fundraisers.
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Speaker 3: Dee also suspected that Lisa actually hadn't lost any hair
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Speaker 3: before going to the salon and having it shaved off.
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Speaker 3: But who wants to accuse someone of lying about having cancer?
21:24
Speaker 3: What if you're wrong? D kept going back and forth,
21:28
Speaker 3: thinking things are not adding up, but then wondering if
21:31
Speaker 3: she was imagining things, and she'd feel bad for even
21:34
Speaker 3: thinking about it. Finally, de confided in one person, her
21:39
Speaker 3: neighbor and friend, Barbara or Barb. Barb and D had
21:42
Speaker 3: gone in together a few months back and purchased a
21:45
Speaker 3: variety of whigs for Lisa, and Barb also happened to
21:49
Speaker 3: be a retired police officer. What did you say?
21:55
Speaker 2: Isaa, I'm just having a lot of doubts because it
21:58
Speaker 2: was that following a way of twenty one, I had
22:04
Speaker 2: ran into someone that would help with the events and that,
22:09
Speaker 2: and they were like why, I thought, Lisa is sick
22:12
Speaker 2: with cancer? And I'm like, she is. What are you
22:15
Speaker 2: talking about? You know? And they're like, well, how's she
22:19
Speaker 2: out ice skating? We saw her at Ottawa Park ice
22:24
Speaker 2: skating and I'm like, I don't know, maybe she had
22:27
Speaker 2: a good day. I don't know what to say. Well,
22:31
Speaker 2: then I started noticing things here at my house misplaced, moved, missing,
22:41
Speaker 2: and I was like, what is going on? I take
22:44
Speaker 2: adderall and all of a sudden, I was running out
22:47
Speaker 2: of my adderall and I never run I'd always have
22:50
Speaker 2: extra cause some days, like the weekends, if I'm not
22:54
Speaker 2: working or not gonna have to be focused. I won't
22:58
Speaker 2: take it why I started running out, and I'm like,
23:02
Speaker 2: how is it even possible?
23:04
Speaker 3: We all have that little voice that tends to pipe
23:07
Speaker 3: up when something isn't quite right, But even when we
23:10
Speaker 3: know it's trying to tell us something, we're not always
23:12
Speaker 3: sure what. During a conversation with Lisa, Dee had mentioned
23:16
Speaker 3: that she was running out of room to store all
23:18
Speaker 3: of these decorations and the equipment that she'd collected hosting
23:22
Speaker 3: so many fundraisers, and not long after, Lisa had some
23:26
Speaker 3: exciting news.
23:29
Speaker 2: She says, this was supposed to be a surprise, but
23:32
Speaker 2: I have to tell you because I don't know how
23:33
Speaker 2: to go about this. And I'm like what, And she's like,
23:37
Speaker 2: everyone chipped in? I said, who's everyone? First? You talking
23:40
Speaker 2: about who's everyone? She wouldn't tell me names. We all
23:44
Speaker 2: chipped in and we got you a chat and I'm like, no,
23:49
Speaker 2: I don't want anyone to be chipping their money in
23:52
Speaker 2: with COVID that we just went through. Everyone still bouncing back,
23:58
Speaker 2: I said, no, I don't want them by and me
24:00
Speaker 2: as shud give them their money back. Oh you got
24:03
Speaker 2: to accept it. Everyone tipped in and I'm like, who
24:07
Speaker 2: is everyone? They didn't want me to tell you who
24:09
Speaker 2: it was. Well, then I was like, all right, let's
24:13
Speaker 2: see where she goes with us. So she tells me
24:16
Speaker 2: the place that you know she ordered the shot from
24:20
Speaker 2: and it's going to be delivered, and I'm like, all right,
24:22
Speaker 2: I'll take off work. So I take off work and
24:25
Speaker 2: there's no shot.
24:27
Speaker 3: Do you have a job where it's easy for you
24:31
Speaker 3: to take off work?
24:32
Speaker 2: No, I work at a factory. You don't just get
24:37
Speaker 2: easily a day off work. So there was no shot.
24:42
Speaker 2: Can't remember what the excuse was at that time, White
24:45
Speaker 2: there was no shot, But there was no shot. So
24:49
Speaker 2: I'm talking with Barb, and Barb says, well, let's go
24:53
Speaker 2: up there to the shut place and see what's going on.
24:57
Speaker 1: Lisa told thee she'd already ordered and paid for this shed,
25:01
Speaker 1: and for weeks she had excuses as to why the
25:04
Speaker 1: delivery was delayed. So finally Barb and Dee decide to
25:08
Speaker 1: just pop by this shed store and they don't tell Lisa.
25:12
Speaker 1: They walk in pretending to shop around, but with a
25:14
Speaker 1: mission to get information.
25:17
Speaker 2: So we go there and we're looking around and I'm
25:22
Speaker 2: like dying because Barb's like asking questions about all these sheds,
25:26
Speaker 2: and I'm like, what are you doing? You know? And
25:31
Speaker 2: she says to the lady, well, we just came here
25:35
Speaker 2: because Lisa Tickameier highly recommended you guys that you guys
25:41
Speaker 2: are wonderful and you guys are getting this shed that
25:44
Speaker 2: the community got for someone she knows. And we're like, oh, okay,
25:49
Speaker 2: and she says, yeah, Lisa's supposed to come and pay
25:52
Speaker 2: for it and has it. And I'm just like mortifight.
25:57
Speaker 2: My stomach dropped and I was sick of my stallmach
26:02
Speaker 2: because I was like, this has been nothing but a lie.
26:06
Speaker 3: Standing there in the shed, store D had a sinking
26:09
Speaker 3: feeling because she now had proof Lisa had been lying
26:13
Speaker 3: to her about the shed. Lisa had told her that
26:16
Speaker 3: many people from the community donated money for this shed
26:20
Speaker 3: in order to thank D for her volunteer work. But
26:23
Speaker 3: according to the store, Lisa never paid for the shed.
26:26
Speaker 3: So what happened to the money Lisa had been lying
26:29
Speaker 3: for weeks? And if Lisa could be so deceitful about
26:32
Speaker 3: this what else might she be lying about. D and
26:35
Speaker 3: Barb were determined to sniff out the truth, and soon
26:39
Speaker 3: D came to believe that all of the missing items
26:42
Speaker 3: from her home, including her prescription adterall pills, were being
26:46
Speaker 3: stolen by Lisa, who had a key to her home.
26:50
Speaker 3: How did you solidify that suspicion.
26:55
Speaker 2: Well, there was two things that went on, and she
27:00
Speaker 2: was supposed to come and let my dog out. She
27:03
Speaker 2: did not know I took the day off for She
27:07
Speaker 2: told me when she came here, she wasn't expecting me
27:09
Speaker 2: here obviously. She's like, well, I was meeting my dad
27:12
Speaker 2: here and he's going to do your flag pole. And
27:15
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, because I didn't have a flagpole I
27:18
Speaker 2: wanted put up in the front of the house. And
27:20
Speaker 2: she's like, I didn't think you were going to be home.
27:22
Speaker 2: And I'm like, yep, I'm here. She's like, but don't
27:25
Speaker 2: see nothing to my dad about the shed because still
27:28
Speaker 2: the shut thing's going on.
27:29
Speaker 3: Okay, So you don't tell her that this lie has
27:32
Speaker 3: been exposed.
27:34
Speaker 2: No, did not tell her, not at this point in time.
27:37
Speaker 2: So I was like, okay, I won't bring that up. Well,
27:40
Speaker 2: I had just got home, just before she got here.
27:44
Speaker 2: I went and picked up my medicine at the pharmacy.
27:47
Speaker 2: Her dad shows up. We're talking about the flag pole.
27:51
Speaker 2: He goes out front to see where I'm putting it.
27:54
Speaker 2: She says she has to go to the bathroom. So
27:57
Speaker 2: she comes in the house and it dawned on me
28:01
Speaker 2: that I left my medication on the counter and everything.
28:05
Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh my god. And this was a
28:08
Speaker 2: Sunday because I was getting the garbage together put it
28:11
Speaker 2: to the road because our garbage day is Monday. And
28:14
Speaker 2: I come in the house and my medicine's not on
28:18
Speaker 2: the counter, the bag, nothing's there. She's like, what's wrong,
28:23
Speaker 2: And I'm like, where is my medicine. I just freaking
28:27
Speaker 2: picked it up from the pharmacy. I know I put
28:32
Speaker 2: it on the counter here. It's not here. Oh, calm down,
28:36
Speaker 2: Maybe you put it somewhere else. And I'm like, Lisa,
28:39
Speaker 2: I've been outside, I've done laundry. That's it other than
28:44
Speaker 2: gathered the garbage up and have it at the road.
28:47
Speaker 2: She goes in the basement, looking in the laundry, looking
28:51
Speaker 2: in the garbage can down there, looks in the garbage
28:54
Speaker 2: in the kitchen, goes out to the curb where my
29:00
Speaker 2: garbage can is and dumps it and starts ripping bags open,
29:05
Speaker 2: bare handed, looking for my medicine.
29:09
Speaker 3: So this is all an act.
29:12
Speaker 2: Well yeah, because all of a sudden she says, I
29:17
Speaker 2: found it, and I'm like, where'd you find it? As
29:22
Speaker 2: she's right there at the street, She's like, it was
29:25
Speaker 2: in this bag of garbage. I'm like, Lisa, that bag
29:27
Speaker 2: of garbage went out three days ago. That bag didn't
29:30
Speaker 2: just go out today. And I just got the medicine
29:32
Speaker 2: today and she only had the bottles in her hand.
29:36
Speaker 2: I said that I didn't take the bottles out of
29:38
Speaker 2: the bag. It was still in the pharmacy bag. Where's
29:40
Speaker 2: the pharmacy bag? And she couldn't answer any of it.
29:44
Speaker 2: I just totally lost it. She ended up leaving being
29:48
Speaker 2: all mad at me.
29:50
Speaker 3: Dee goes over to Barb's house and decides it's time
29:52
Speaker 3: to call Lisa, to tell Lisa that she knows she
29:55
Speaker 3: is lying, lying about the shed and lying about the
29:58
Speaker 3: missing prescription. He's been a good friend Lisa. She wants
30:02
Speaker 3: to know why, and she also wants to know if
30:06
Speaker 3: Lisa is lying about anything else.
30:09
Speaker 2: I mean, she's just balling, crying like you would not
30:13
Speaker 2: believe tell me there is a shed. I'm like, why
30:17
Speaker 2: would these people lie, Lisa? Why would you tell me
30:21
Speaker 2: you found my medication in this bag of garbage when
30:26
Speaker 2: that bag of garbage I put in there three days ago? Well,
30:29
Speaker 2: maybe I picked the wrong bag. I don't know. I
30:32
Speaker 2: was just trying to help you find your medicine. Well,
30:35
Speaker 2: then she has me feeling bad because then she's I
30:38
Speaker 2: was trying to help you, and I'm like, oh my god,
30:42
Speaker 2: then I'm feeling bad. That's where the emotional roller coaster
30:46
Speaker 2: came in, because she was so good. She would actually
30:50
Speaker 2: make me like the Shed people. She actually made me
30:54
Speaker 2: think they were lying to me. So then I'm feeling
30:57
Speaker 2: bad because she's making my brain all twisted. I'm like,
31:03
Speaker 2: what is going on here? I felt like I was
31:05
Speaker 2: losing it.
31:07
Speaker 3: What is Barb doing in the moment that you're confronting
31:10
Speaker 3: Lisa over the phone at her house? At Barb's house.
31:14
Speaker 2: I have it on speaker and Barb is just shaking
31:18
Speaker 2: her head like are you kidding me? And then I'm
31:24
Speaker 2: all upset when I hang up on Lisa and I'm
31:28
Speaker 2: like yelling at Barb. No, I feel like shit. She
31:31
Speaker 2: was only trying to help me, and Barb's like, really,
31:34
Speaker 2: come on. So then I'm thinking, Okay, yes she's lying.
31:38
Speaker 2: Then I'm back to thinking, no, she's not. How can
31:41
Speaker 2: you do this to her? She's actually a really good person.
31:45
Speaker 2: I was just a mess.
31:47
Speaker 1: Dee was starting to feel like she was an upside downland.
31:50
Speaker 1: Was her new friend Lisa lying to her? Or was
31:54
Speaker 1: she actually sick? Dee had been helping Lisa for months,
31:58
Speaker 1: hosting and attending multiple fundraisers, paying for things out of
32:02
Speaker 1: her own pocket, giving Lisa rights to the pharmacy when
32:05
Speaker 1: she said she felt too sick to drive. Do you
32:08
Speaker 1: even meet her famous taco lasagna? For an event to
32:11
Speaker 1: raise money for blood cancer research. Dee also through a
32:15
Speaker 1: birthday party for one of Lisa's sons. When Lisa said
32:18
Speaker 1: she was too sick she just couldn't do it. Without
32:21
Speaker 1: a second thought, Dee stepped in and took over the party.
32:24
Speaker 1: She covered the cost of supplies herself, because that's the
32:27
Speaker 1: kind of friend and neighbor de is.
32:31
Speaker 2: I got the Hamburgs, the hot dogs, the pop all
32:34
Speaker 2: the fixings. People made cookcakes and cookies for them for
32:39
Speaker 2: their birthday. No cast to her. So many people from
32:44
Speaker 2: the community came, not just family and friends, it was
32:48
Speaker 2: supporters that came.
32:50
Speaker 3: You know, at these events, did Lisa seem sick?
32:57
Speaker 2: She would portray that she was tired and it hurts
33:02
Speaker 2: the walk. I just heard all over that type thing.
33:07
Speaker 2: But you would catch her like getting up and move
33:11
Speaker 2: around just fine. And then once she would see that
33:14
Speaker 2: you're watching, she'd be like, oh, oh, I gotta sit down.
33:19
Speaker 2: I gots sit down.
33:26
Speaker 3: Despite these growing frustration with Lisa, she developed a close
33:29
Speaker 3: relationship with Lisa's sons. So when she heard about a
33:33
Speaker 3: contest where a business owner in Texas was giving away
33:36
Speaker 3: a go kart, wanting to honor someone who had given
33:38
Speaker 3: back to their community, de immediately thought of Lisa's son.
33:44
Speaker 2: So I wrote the essay for Lisa's son and submitted
33:47
Speaker 2: it anyone.
33:51
Speaker 3: The owner of Buja Sports heads to town to deliver
33:53
Speaker 3: the prize to Lisa's son, who was being honored for
33:56
Speaker 3: being such a great community member. It's a big deal.
34:00
Speaker 3: There will be in a word ceremony and Outback Steakhouse
34:02
Speaker 3: is going to sponsor a celebratory meal for them. Lisa's
34:06
Speaker 3: son is really excited. Do you coordinate everything and just
34:11
Speaker 3: lets Lisa know when to show up at Outback.
34:15
Speaker 2: It's all covered. No one has to pay for a
34:18
Speaker 2: single meal. Out Back is covering it all. Well, Lisa
34:24
Speaker 2: didn't show up. She had her dad bring her son,
34:29
Speaker 2: and Ryan calls and said, Lisa's too sick. She's not
34:34
Speaker 2: feeling well. Our son will show up. Her dad's going
34:38
Speaker 2: to bring them, but we're not going to be there. Sorry.
34:43
Speaker 2: Her father came with her son and one of the
34:46
Speaker 2: son's friends. The news was there and everything did the
34:51
Speaker 2: big presentation. We all went back inside out Back because
34:55
Speaker 2: it's January, it's cold.
34:58
Speaker 3: After the ceremony, Lisa's and son leave with the excuse
35:02
Speaker 3: that Lisa is so sick they need to go home.
35:05
Speaker 3: They are given an Outback gift card for one hundred
35:07
Speaker 3: dollars for their family to come back and enjoy a meal.
35:10
Speaker 3: When Lisa is feeling better. Everyone sends their well wishes,
35:13
Speaker 3: and the man running the competition, who driven all the
35:16
Speaker 3: way from Texas for this, says he can drop off
35:19
Speaker 3: the go kart to their home. Leader.
35:22
Speaker 2: We're not even done with our salads. And I can
35:25
Speaker 2: remember my exact reaction when this happened. My phone dinged
35:31
Speaker 2: and it's a text message, and it's her husband and
35:36
Speaker 2: her telling me that we can't deliver the go carts
35:42
Speaker 2: because they are on their way to a basketball game
35:45
Speaker 2: of professional basketball, and we're not even done with our salads.
35:50
Speaker 2: But you're so sick you couldn't come here and eat dinner.
35:54
Speaker 2: And this is when I get angry. I was like,
35:57
Speaker 2: she's so sick she can't come here to eat, but
36:00
Speaker 2: yet she can go to a basketball game.
36:03
Speaker 3: So for you, this is the sort of moment where
36:07
Speaker 3: you are no longer going to accept her various stories
36:11
Speaker 3: and reasons and justifications for these discrepancies you've been experiencing.
36:16
Speaker 3: This is the moment where you're like, I'm being lied
36:19
Speaker 3: to or something is not right. Corrut D is now
36:26
Speaker 3: certain that Lisa is not telling the truth about her
36:28
Speaker 3: illness about anything, and the next day she runs into
36:32
Speaker 3: Lisa at a local hockey game. Lisa arrives looking well,
36:37
Speaker 3: really healthy, and by Lisa's side are two people that
36:40
Speaker 3: Dee has also become close friends with, but who had
36:43
Speaker 3: mysteriously been dodging her calls for the last couple of weeks.
36:47
Speaker 2: They've been avoiding my phone calls, and I just thought
36:50
Speaker 2: they were busy, didn't think anything else when I did
36:55
Speaker 2: talk to them. They seemed a little off, so they
37:00
Speaker 2: up there barely talk to me. She's just all smiles,
37:05
Speaker 2: caring on, like, no big dal nothing at all, nothing's
37:10
Speaker 2: wrong that just didn't happen yesterday and out back, nothing wrong.
37:17
Speaker 2: I'm trying to keep my cool and not lose it
37:21
Speaker 2: because I know you're a scam artist. Now I know this.
37:27
Speaker 2: And it was hard. And she walked up to me
37:31
Speaker 2: and acted like she was gonna give me a hug.
37:33
Speaker 2: And I looked at her and I said, I suggest
37:35
Speaker 2: you walk away from me right now, and she just
37:41
Speaker 2: and she walked away, and they just looked at me
37:44
Speaker 2: and my two friends and was like, what's going on,
37:48
Speaker 2: you know? And they just took off following her. Later
37:53
Speaker 2: that evening, I get a message on Facebook and it's
37:58
Speaker 2: her brother, to know with we could talk, So he calls.
38:05
Speaker 2: He's like, hey, this is Robbie, Lisa's brother. I'm like yep.
38:09
Speaker 2: He's like, I just called to see if you know
38:11
Speaker 2: what's going on with Lisa. And I'm like, I lost it,
38:16
Speaker 2: not gonna lie. I lost it. I said, what do
38:19
Speaker 2: you mean, what's going on with Lisa? You want the truth?
38:22
Speaker 2: It's probably the first time you're ever gonna hear any
38:24
Speaker 2: truth in your life. She's a damn lawyer and she
38:27
Speaker 2: don't have cancer, and I think it's all been a lie.
38:30
Speaker 2: And he's like, can I get my wife on the phone? Well,
38:35
Speaker 2: here I find out that they had the same doubts,
38:38
Speaker 2: that she didn't have cancer, that she's a hypochondriac, and
38:44
Speaker 2: she has done this before in high school, including shaving
38:49
Speaker 2: her head, and her parents just enable her.
38:54
Speaker 3: What does it feel like to hear this?
38:57
Speaker 2: It was an emotional roller coaster. Part of me was relieved,
39:02
Speaker 2: I'm not freaking nuts, relieved I'm not a horrible person
39:07
Speaker 2: for doubting her, and then angry because her family had
39:14
Speaker 2: these doubts. She's done this in the past, and no
39:18
Speaker 2: one says anything when the whole community is doing all
39:21
Speaker 2: of this for her and her family. So I was
39:25
Speaker 2: all over the place with that phone call.
39:29
Speaker 3: Where did you guys leave it?
39:31
Speaker 2: Well? I talked to his wife for I'm going to
39:34
Speaker 2: say it was a good hour and we were just
39:37
Speaker 2: like comparing notes and things that went on because she's like,
39:40
Speaker 2: that's why I wouldn't come to town to go to Lisa's benefit.
39:46
Speaker 2: Me and her sister in law we just started talking
39:49
Speaker 2: and I can't tell you how many nights we would
39:52
Speaker 2: be up all night digging in rabbit holes comparing stories.
39:57
Speaker 3: I'm curious about this moment in high sto school that
40:00
Speaker 3: she did this before, where she told people she had
40:03
Speaker 3: cancer when she didn't and kind of carried out a
40:06
Speaker 3: whole shrade around it. Do you recall anything about what
40:09
Speaker 3: her brother told you about the time that that happened
40:12
Speaker 3: back in high school where she did that. Was she
40:15
Speaker 3: gaining any money attention or what was the response and
40:19
Speaker 3: how did it come to late that she had been
40:21
Speaker 3: faking it back in high school.
40:24
Speaker 2: Well, he was in the military at the time, so
40:26
Speaker 2: he wasn't present, but one of her friends had told
40:31
Speaker 2: him about it, that it was very short lived, that
40:36
Speaker 2: she said she had cancer, that it was like immediately
40:39
Speaker 2: she shaved her head because she said the hair was
40:42
Speaker 2: falling out. While word got to like the teacher, the
40:46
Speaker 2: principal on that, so officials got involved because what's going
40:51
Speaker 2: on with this child was these parents, and they approached
40:55
Speaker 2: the parent and her mom covers everything up for so
40:59
Speaker 2: her mom, like Lisa God confused, It's not cancer, it
41:04
Speaker 2: never was. They were treating her for something else. And
41:07
Speaker 2: gave her the wrong medication and she had a reaction
41:10
Speaker 2: to it. It made her hair fall up.
41:13
Speaker 3: That was that, and so then it just went on
41:16
Speaker 3: like she just okay, went on. As mind boggling as
41:21
Speaker 3: it is to hear that Lisa has done this before,
41:24
Speaker 3: D still needs proof that she's doing it again, lying
41:27
Speaker 3: about having cancer because this time Lisa's an adult and
41:32
Speaker 3: people are giving her money thinking it's going toward cancer treatment.
41:35
Speaker 3: So D starts running stakeouts. She knows when Lisa has
41:38
Speaker 3: doctor appointments and chemotherapy because Lisa tells her, so D
41:43
Speaker 3: covertly waits outside her house to see if she ever
41:45
Speaker 3: leaves for those appointments, and she doesn't. But as this
41:50
Speaker 3: is all happening, D also starts noticing a change in
41:53
Speaker 3: the way that people are treating her. She's being stonewalled
41:57
Speaker 3: and isn't sure why, but eventually she fas figures that
42:00
Speaker 3: out too.
42:02
Speaker 2: Here Lisa was telling these people that I'm a scam artist.
42:08
Speaker 2: I took some of her money from her fundraiser. I'm
42:12
Speaker 2: not as nice person as I portray to be. That
42:16
Speaker 2: I don't help Lisa like I say I do. She
42:19
Speaker 2: had to pay for everything that I'm this horrible person.
42:24
Speaker 3: The more de spoke about Lisa, the more Lisa seemed
42:26
Speaker 3: to double down on her story. And when Dee told
42:29
Speaker 3: mutual friends, look, I've even caught Lisa stealing belongings from
42:33
Speaker 3: my home, including prescription medication, Lisa came up with yet
42:38
Speaker 3: another story.
42:40
Speaker 2: She told them that my neighbors were concerned that I
42:46
Speaker 2: was abusing my medication and that's why she took it.
42:53
Speaker 3: So she admits to taking the prescription from your house.
42:57
Speaker 3: And when she learns that you're a communication your discovery
43:02
Speaker 3: that she's lying to the people that were involved in
43:05
Speaker 3: the fundraising efforts, the people that were rallying around her
43:09
Speaker 3: in various ways in addition to raising money, How are
43:12
Speaker 3: you communicating this information to them?
43:15
Speaker 2: I'm calling them personally.
43:18
Speaker 3: Because how did it feel to have been, you know,
43:23
Speaker 3: sort of spearheading this effort to help her and have
43:26
Speaker 3: people donate to her, and then to learn she was lying?
43:31
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I can't even tell you how I felt.
43:33
Speaker 2: I felt horrible. I told people that I am so sorry.
43:37
Speaker 2: I know you gave a lot to support her. I
43:41
Speaker 2: apologize the people for her doing this to them, and
43:45
Speaker 2: I'm doing so much the supporter and that I'm finding
43:49
Speaker 2: this out. And I said, I'm sure you got doubts
43:54
Speaker 2: and concerns about me because I was the one that
43:57
Speaker 2: brought her in and promoted but you know, as for
44:02
Speaker 2: the help for her and everything, and I was the
44:06
Speaker 2: one in charge of all that, and you're probably looking
44:09
Speaker 2: at me like, well, well'd you get out of it?
44:13
Speaker 2: Or because at the time I didn't know everything she
44:16
Speaker 2: was saying about me.
44:19
Speaker 3: It was D's word against Lisa's and people were still
44:23
Speaker 3: siding with Lisa, finding it impossible to believe that she
44:26
Speaker 3: could lie about having cancer. They believed instead that Dee
44:30
Speaker 3: was stealing money default betrayed by the community that she'd
44:33
Speaker 3: become so involved in. But she could see how people
44:36
Speaker 3: would be fooled by Lisa because Lisa had fooled her too.
44:40
Speaker 3: But then in early twenty twenty three, the Ohio Bureau
44:43
Speaker 3: of Criminal Investigation started looking into Lisa, her claims of
44:48
Speaker 3: cancer and all of the money that she'd accepted, and
44:51
Speaker 3: they certainly wouldn't be fooled. They executed multiple search warrants
44:56
Speaker 3: confirming that Lisa had been printing fires stating that she
44:58
Speaker 3: was undergoing treatment for non Hodgkins lind foma. So investigators
45:03
Speaker 3: reached out to local hospitals, but none had any record
45:06
Speaker 3: of treating her. Witnesses interviewed by investigators told them that
45:10
Speaker 3: Lisa and her husband had said that she'd not only
45:13
Speaker 3: had cancer, but that she had survived it, only to
45:16
Speaker 3: have it return multiple times. Can you tell us from
45:20
Speaker 3: your perspective what took place in sort of the community's
45:25
Speaker 3: perspective as that investigation progressed.
45:29
Speaker 2: Well, what you should ask that because Lisa told everyone
45:35
Speaker 2: in the community they were not investigating her, they were
45:40
Speaker 2: investigating Dylan, that Dylan has been scamming and stealing money
45:46
Speaker 2: from all these fund raiss and that she has to
45:49
Speaker 2: play along with it to help them because that is
45:54
Speaker 2: so wrong for Dylan to do that. So she is
45:58
Speaker 2: helping them by playing along like she's the one being investigated,
46:03
Speaker 2: but it's really not. Hung Yeah, I'm like, Okay, if
46:11
Speaker 2: it's an investigation and I'm undercover, I'm not gonna tell
46:15
Speaker 2: everyone that I'm undercover or I'm playing along with this investigation.
46:19
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna say a word about it to anyone. Hello,
46:22
Speaker 2: they're going to tell you not to say anything to anyone. So,
46:26
Speaker 2: as it went on and it got more into the news,
46:30
Speaker 2: you know, because court dates were being said, and it
46:33
Speaker 2: came out this is what they found and these are
46:37
Speaker 2: the charges, and da da da da dah. People are like, well, Lisa,
46:41
Speaker 2: you're being charge. Well, her response to them, no, it's
46:48
Speaker 2: really d Lin. I'm telling you, I'm gonna go to
46:52
Speaker 2: court and whatever happens happens. But it's so they can
46:57
Speaker 2: get DLin. This is big.
47:00
Speaker 3: So she is still even in the midst of like
47:03
Speaker 3: facing criminal charges, She's telling people, listen, just wait, it's
47:09
Speaker 3: going to come out to be Dylan. I'm involved in
47:11
Speaker 3: this only as a means of them getting her. Essentially,
47:14
Speaker 3: is what her story is.
47:15
Speaker 2: I'm an informant.
47:17
Speaker 3: I'm curious if her husband was charged with anything or
47:20
Speaker 3: what his sort of the perception of how much he knew.
47:24
Speaker 2: He claims he knew nothing. They had nothing in texts
47:30
Speaker 2: to one another. And I'm sorry, but yes, I believe that,
47:35
Speaker 2: but I'm sure he knew.
47:38
Speaker 3: Did Lisa at any point ever admit that she did
47:42
Speaker 3: not does not have cancer?
47:46
Speaker 2: No, not to me.
47:50
Speaker 3: According to reporting by WTL eleven and Toledo, just four
47:54
Speaker 3: benefit events organized for Lisa brought in sixteen thousand eight
47:58
Speaker 3: hundred and thirty three dollars and sixty five cents. That
48:01
Speaker 3: total doesn't include gift cards, cash sent directly to her,
48:05
Speaker 3: or all of the meals donated to Lisa and her family.
48:08
Speaker 3: A criminal investigation later revealed that from August twenty twenty
48:12
Speaker 3: one through March twenty twenty three, Lisa collected thousands more
48:16
Speaker 3: from friends, neighbors, and strangers. Donors believed they were helping
48:20
Speaker 3: a woman fighting cancer, but there was no cancer. In
48:23
Speaker 3: April of twenty twenty three, Lisa admitted to investigators that
48:27
Speaker 3: she had lied about having the disease. She initially claimed
48:30
Speaker 3: that the money had been used for other unspecified medical issues. Investigators, however,
48:35
Speaker 3: found that by twenty twenty three, Lisa and her husband
48:38
Speaker 3: were more than sixty thousand dollars behind on their mortgage
48:42
Speaker 3: and their home was in foreclosure. On June thirteenth, twenty
48:45
Speaker 3: twenty four, Lisa pleaded guilty to felony theft related to
48:49
Speaker 3: the cancer scheme. She was sentenced to six months in jail,
48:52
Speaker 3: two years of probation, two hundred hours of community service,
48:56
Speaker 3: and ordered to pay more than twenty five thousand dollars
48:58
Speaker 3: in restitution, but that still wasn't the end of it.
49:02
Speaker 3: Investigators continued digging and another allegation surfaced. Lisa held a
49:06
Speaker 3: fundraiser for fallen officer Brandon Stalker, but failed to turn
49:10
Speaker 3: over all of those funds to his family, and in
49:12
Speaker 3: August of twenty twenty five, Lisa pleaded guilty to theft,
49:16
Speaker 3: a first degree misdemeanor. She received a suspended one hundred
49:19
Speaker 3: and eighty day jail sentence, one year probation, and additional
49:22
Speaker 3: community service.
49:24
Speaker 2: I reached out to everyone I could possibly think of
49:29
Speaker 2: to write a statement impact statement for the judge, and
49:34
Speaker 2: the judge said it at one point in court that
49:39
Speaker 2: this is the most impact statement she has ever received.
49:44
Speaker 2: And she's been a murdered childs rape, child abuse, this
49:50
Speaker 2: is the most impact statement she has ever received. And
49:54
Speaker 2: I think everyone in my opinion, because we were all
49:58
Speaker 2: concerned about her children.
50:01
Speaker 3: Do you know if any of that money was ever returned.
50:04
Speaker 2: Not that I know of. I know she had to
50:07
Speaker 2: pay restitution, but that the restitution was supposed to go
50:13
Speaker 2: to like cancer research or something like that. I think
50:18
Speaker 2: everyone was okay with not getting their money back, but
50:24
Speaker 2: they wanted the money to go to something that was
50:27
Speaker 2: going to benefit you know that was legit and not
50:31
Speaker 2: a scam. I think everyone that BCI talked to was
50:36
Speaker 2: okay with that, because they have to interview everyone that
50:39
Speaker 2: they could. And I mean, that's the first thing I said.
50:42
Speaker 2: I don't want my money back. First, I want her
50:45
Speaker 2: to get help because of her children. And then yes,
50:48
Speaker 2: if there's any monies that she has to pay back,
50:52
Speaker 2: give it to the Woman Center for making wigs or whatever,
50:57
Speaker 2: you know, something like that. I don't want it back
51:00
Speaker 2: because I gave it to help someone that was going
51:03
Speaker 2: through a bad time. I still wanted to help someone
51:06
Speaker 2: that's going through a bad time.
51:08
Speaker 3: So when was the last time you had any contact
51:11
Speaker 3: with Lisa?
51:15
Speaker 2: The last time? Oh my gosh, she did call my
51:19
Speaker 2: phone when I was at work. This was like, oh
51:24
Speaker 2: she called one time. It was during the court proceedings
51:28
Speaker 2: in that and I didn't answer it. I was like,
51:32
Speaker 2: oh my god. It like stunned me. You know, I'm like,
51:34
Speaker 2: I should call my phone. And then it was after
51:38
Speaker 2: she got out of jail she called my phone. I
51:42
Speaker 2: answered it. I was like hello, and she didn't say
51:46
Speaker 2: nothing at first, and I'm like, Lisa, I know what
51:48
Speaker 2: you you call him up by my caller ID and
51:51
Speaker 2: she said sorry, wrong number and she hung up. That
51:53
Speaker 2: was the last contact we had ever my concern, and
51:58
Speaker 2: it kills me every day. I mean I still to
52:01
Speaker 2: this day, I ain't gonna lie. I'll drive by our
52:04
Speaker 2: house to hope to see the boys outside. I mean,
52:07
Speaker 2: they used to call me aunt Detie. You know, they
52:09
Speaker 2: got bullied when they shaved their head to support their
52:13
Speaker 2: mom and went to school with shaved heads, and here
52:17
Speaker 2: to find out she was lying about it the whole time,
52:19
Speaker 2: and they came home crying and you were okay with that.
52:24
Speaker 2: How can you be a mom and be okay knowing
52:27
Speaker 2: you lied to your children for them to support you
52:30
Speaker 2: and they're getting bullied at school. I couldn't live with myself.
52:35
Speaker 2: That would devastate me.
52:37
Speaker 1: You know, Well, we got another scam story on the books.
52:45
Speaker 3: Somehow they just keep on coming, right. It's like someone
52:49
Speaker 3: who's about to commit a cancer fraud clearly doesn't google.
52:52
Speaker 3: Has anyone ever been caught for committing a cancer fraud? Yeah?
52:56
Speaker 1: But it also makes me wonder how many people have
53:00
Speaker 1: not been caught.
53:01
Speaker 3: Right, I know, especially like before social media, when people
53:05
Speaker 3: weren't congregating online and talking about things. It's like you
53:09
Speaker 3: could just scan one person and like Lisa had people
53:12
Speaker 3: coming over to clean her house, Like that is so
53:16
Speaker 3: intimate in a way, someone emptying your trash and you're
53:20
Speaker 3: just gonna let them do it, thinking that you have cancer.
53:23
Speaker 1: People like bringing over food. That part when Dee was
53:27
Speaker 1: talking about how she was just had so much food
53:29
Speaker 1: from the community that it was going bad and still
53:32
Speaker 1: she was like, yeah, keep it coming.
53:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, that part is so nuts because Dee was always
53:37
Speaker 3: thinking about her community as a whole. Obviously, she was
53:40
Speaker 3: focused on helping Lisa, who had become her close friend
53:44
Speaker 3: and was now supposedly diagnosed with cancer, but you know,
53:48
Speaker 3: she knew that there were a lot of people struggling
53:50
Speaker 3: around them, and to see all of these resources going
53:53
Speaker 3: to Lisa and then Lisa clearly wasting them was really
53:58
Speaker 3: hard for her.
53:59
Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel like that was one of the moments
54:01
Speaker 1: that was a red flag to her of like maybe
54:04
Speaker 1: something's going on.
54:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, like this is so weird. Why do you need
54:08
Speaker 3: a fridge packed full of food? Yeah, that you're not
54:11
Speaker 3: going to eat And you know, she probably brought over
54:13
Speaker 3: her tacolasagnya. I wish she'd bring it over here. It
54:16
Speaker 3: sounds pretty good. I've never heard of it before this interview.
54:20
Speaker 3: If I'm being honest, I feel like I maybe heard
54:22
Speaker 3: of it one time. Was it someone from Ohio?
54:26
Speaker 1: Maybe? I don't even know if that made it into
54:30
Speaker 1: the final cut, I can't remember, but I do remember
54:34
Speaker 1: in the actual interviews she mentioned her taco lasagnya least
54:37
Speaker 1: twice because it was kind of like a crowd pleaser,
54:41
Speaker 1: one of her go to things, and she made it
54:43
Speaker 1: for people in the community, you know, like anytimes someone
54:46
Speaker 1: needed help. It does sound very comforting. It's a cast role.
54:51
Speaker 1: It's basically like taco castrole has like tortillas in it,
54:54
Speaker 1: taco meat, salsa, cheese, guacamole, sour cream.
54:58
Speaker 3: But as a cast no, that sounds wonderful.
55:02
Speaker 2: Yeah.
55:03
Speaker 1: If anyone out there has had or loves tackle as anna,
55:06
Speaker 1: send us your recipe.
55:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, would love to try that. Yeah. D was a
55:11
Speaker 3: blast to speak with because she's a very passionate speaker,
55:14
Speaker 3: and you can tell that she really rode this wave
55:19
Speaker 3: of thinking her friend was going through potentially a life
55:22
Speaker 3: threatening illness with her children and her husband worried about her,
55:28
Speaker 3: to being scammed in the strangest ways like the shed. Yeah,
55:34
Speaker 3: I mean it's like, okay, we're talking about a shed.
55:37
Speaker 3: How long can we really talk about a shed? But
55:38
Speaker 3: it's this part of the story where D's like, I
55:41
Speaker 3: didn't even ask you.
55:42
Speaker 1: For this, even totally this, like I don't even want
55:46
Speaker 1: people donating to this because of course, as we've said,
55:49
Speaker 1: like she cares so much about her community and it
55:52
Speaker 1: is very aware that a lot of people lost their
55:54
Speaker 1: jobs in COVID and they don't have extra money. Yeah,
55:57
Speaker 1: and so she's like, no, don't do this for me,
56:00
Speaker 1: I don't want this, right, But then she gets roped
56:03
Speaker 1: into it.
56:04
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Yeah, that part of it. I was like,
56:06
Speaker 3: are we gonna really talk about a shed right now?
56:08
Speaker 3: But here we are. It's in the episode, but that
56:11
Speaker 3: moment actually of Lisa doing this like bizarre, unprompted thing,
56:18
Speaker 3: trying to gift D this shed. Actually, so I recently
56:22
Speaker 3: had a conversation with another one of Lisa's victims who
56:24
Speaker 3: had a completely different relationship with Lisa, and there's a
56:28
Speaker 3: lot in that story that is so different from D
56:33
Speaker 3: and her friendship with Lisa. But moments like this from
56:36
Speaker 3: Lisa where we start to see these bizarre patterns emerge
56:39
Speaker 3: of I don't know what the word is, like grandiosity?
56:44
Speaker 3: Is that a word? Or's like someone going way over
56:46
Speaker 3: the top for no reason, unprompted, Lisa doing that, Lisa
56:51
Speaker 3: doing that, and then you get to the end of
56:52
Speaker 3: the road and you're like, that was such a big
56:55
Speaker 3: and crazy lie and I never even asked you to
57:00
Speaker 3: do any of that.
57:01
Speaker 1: Interesting. I wonder if that's some kind of strategy, maybe
57:05
Speaker 1: like a distraction. But yeah, I'm working on that now
57:08
Speaker 1: and it will follow this episode so you'll get to
57:11
Speaker 1: hear it.
57:11
Speaker 3: So exciting.
57:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, so that's another one of Lisa's victims.
57:16
Speaker 3: This is someone that Lisa had a relationship with outside
57:20
Speaker 3: of her marriage that had no idea that she was
57:23
Speaker 3: in fact very much married.
57:25
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, wow. Okay, there's actually so much more
57:30
Speaker 1: to this story, and so we've decided we're going to
57:33
Speaker 1: do a whole other episode next week. Patia's going to
57:36
Speaker 1: talk about her conversation with this other victim of Lisa's.
57:39
Speaker 1: We're also going to cover an entirely different scam, but
57:44
Speaker 1: that is also connected to fundraising efforts for Toledo fallen
57:49
Speaker 1: officer Anthony Dia that took place, and like, give any
57:53
Speaker 1: updates about what's going on with Lisa. There's just too
57:56
Speaker 1: much to put at the end of this episode, so
57:59
Speaker 1: we're going to save that and talk about all of
58:01
Speaker 1: it next week.
58:02
Speaker 3: We'll see you guys, son Thanks for listening. If you
58:08
Speaker 3: have a story for us, we would love to hear it.
58:10
Speaker 3: Our email is The Knife at exactlyrightmedia dot com, or
58:13
Speaker 3: you can follow us on Instagram at the Knife Podcast
58:16
Speaker 3: or Blue Sky at the Knife Podcast.
58:18
Speaker 1: This has been an Exactly Right production hosted and produced
58:21
Speaker 1: by me Hannah Smith and me Pasha Eating.
58:24
Speaker 3: Our producers are Tom Bryfogel and Alexis Samarosi.
58:27
Speaker 1: This episode was mixed by Tom Bryfogel.
58:30
Speaker 3: Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain.
58:32
Speaker 1: Our theme music is by Birds in the Airport.
58:34
Speaker 3: Artwork by Vanessa Lilac.
58:36
Speaker 1: Executive produced by Karen Kilgareff, Georgia Hardstark and Danielle Kramer.