Latest / Fulfilled with Rebecca Sheehan / Should Christians Celebrate Halloween? | Ep. 12

Transcript

Should Christians Celebrate Halloween? | Ep. 12 · Fulfilled with Rebecca Sheehan

0:07
SPEAKER_01: Hey everybody, welcome to Fulfilled.
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SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Rebecca Sheehan.
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SPEAKER_01: Well, it is that time of year again.
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SPEAKER_01: Hay rides,
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SPEAKER_01: jack-o'-lanterns,
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SPEAKER_01: scouring Amazon for that perfect costume,
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SPEAKER_01: and even here in Florida,
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SPEAKER_01: there's a slight chill in the air.
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SPEAKER_01: Or maybe it's just a little less humid.
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SPEAKER_01: Growing up, Halloween was my favorite holiday.
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Dressing up as princesses,
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trick-or-treating with friends,
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and of course,
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the candy.
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But when I became a Christian,
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I started to see Halloween a little differently.
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SPEAKER_01: The darker elements,
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SPEAKER_01: those gory decorations with cackling demons,
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SPEAKER_01: bloody axes and creepy masks really began to bother me,
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SPEAKER_01: even more so once our kids were old enough to notice them too.
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SPEAKER_01: So here's the big question.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: Should Christians celebrate Halloween?
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SPEAKER_01: Should Christians avoid it altogether
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SPEAKER_01: or land somewhere in between.
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To help us unpack that,
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I've invited Amy Davison of Mama Bear Apologetics back to
1:13
Fulfilled.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: If you're not familiar,
1:16
Mama Bear Apologetics is a ministry that helps parents raise
1:19
kids who can think
1:20
SPEAKER_01: critically and defend their faith,
1:22
SPEAKER_01: which includes tricky cultural questions.
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SPEAKER_01: Amy was first on Fulfilled this past spring,
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SPEAKER_01: sharing super helpful advice about Easter,
1:31
how Christians can navigate all the secular elements while
1:34
honoring Christ.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: And I can't wait to tackle Halloween.
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SPEAKER_01: Amy, thanks so much for coming back on the show.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: And I'm excited for our conversation.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you so much for the invitation.
1:46
So before we tackle the big question of whether Christians
1:50
should celebrate
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SPEAKER_01: Halloween,
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SPEAKER_01: I'd love to talk about the origin of the holiday.
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SPEAKER_01: When and where did it all start?
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yeah the origin of the holiday is pretty fascinating because
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it's really the origin
2:00
of two distinct holidays so first there's Samhain uh sorry it
2:06
looks like Samhain
2:06
it's actually pronounced Samhain and this is an ancient Celtic
2:10
holiday usually it
2:11
would end up being at the tail end of October to the beginning
2:14
of November and it
2:16
was a way of celebrating the harvest recognizing the coming
2:20
winter as well as
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SPEAKER_00: departed loved ones
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So there would be all sorts of rituals that would be in place
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in this sort of celebration.
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SPEAKER_00: So what they believed is during Samhain,
2:30
the veil between the living and the spiritual realm would thin
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to the point to
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SPEAKER_00: where past loved ones could come back and visit.
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There was believed to have been more sort of like fairy or
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mischievous malevolent
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SPEAKER_00: spirit activities.
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SPEAKER_00: Now part of those celebrations, what they would do is they would have
2:48
one to three individuals sort of dress up as a malevolent
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spirit which usually
2:52
entailed some sort of animal skull and they would go door to
2:55
door and you were
2:56
supposed to offer it some sort of food offering and that was
2:59
meant to appease the
3:00
spirits so they wouldn't terrorize your home bring bad luck it
3:04
could even tie into
3:05
ancient fertility ideas and just hoping for a more blessed
3:09
harvest the next spring
3:12
what does the harvest season or the end of the harvest season
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have to do with the
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veil thinning between the living and the dead it just had to do
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with their ancient
3:19
belief system to where they believed that this time of year
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that's when things sort
3:23
of thinned and the spiritual realm would cross over and that
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was part of the reason
3:26
for the bonfires as well so part of the ways that ancient celts
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and the ancient
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SPEAKER_00: irish
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would celebrate this is they would have everybody sort of
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extinguish their living
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room fires their home fires and they would have one big bonfire
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within the center
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of the community and you were supposed to take an ember of that
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bonfire bring it
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back to your home so i i have a lot of scottish history in my
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background and so one
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of the stories that we were told as kids is during these
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celebrations one of the
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reasons the bonfires were held was so that when your departed
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loved ones came back
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SPEAKER_00: they had a spot where they could warm themselves
4:00
And so there was kind of this belief system that the spiritual
4:03
realm could gather close to you.
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SPEAKER_00: And it just happened to happen at that tail end of the harvest.
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SPEAKER_00: So it was more of this celebration of we're bringing the food in.
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But then we're also acknowledging that this is a time of death
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and renewal.
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SPEAKER_00: And so then that sort of brought spiritual elements of,
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contacting the dead for advice or wisdom which is where you see
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especially in the
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victorian era a lot of halloween games around that time had to
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do with fortune
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telling and figuring out who your future spouse would be so
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they would carve an
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apple and you're supposed to do it in all one peel and then
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toss it over your
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shoulder and then whatever whatever letter it formed on the
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ground that was
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supposedly the first letter of who your spouse would be so
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again it all just sort
4:44
SPEAKER_00: of wrapped up within this time of year
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SPEAKER_01: So what about All Hallows Eve?
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Because that's sort of what I always thought Halloween was
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based on or had to do with.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: So we have the Celtic element that was happening with Samhain.
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SPEAKER_00: And then All Hallows Eve,
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that was actually something that started out as the day
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preceding All Saints Day.
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SPEAKER_00: So All Saints Day is actually a Catholic holiday.
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SPEAKER_00: And it was initially started and celebrated on May 13th.
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SPEAKER_00: when the Pope dedicated the Parthenon in Rome in 1609.
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SPEAKER_00: And that was a day to celebrate the saints,
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SPEAKER_00: specifically those who had been martyred for the Christian faith.
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And then Pope Gregory III,
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later on during the eighth century,
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he was actually dedicating St.
5:27
Peter's Basilica and he switched the celebration because he
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wanted to combine
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SPEAKER_00: celebrating the martyrs and then celebrating the saints.
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SPEAKER_00: And then he switched it to November 1st and that became All Saints Day.
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SPEAKER_00: So since back in the day, a lot of holidays started at sunset,
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That's where All Hallows Eve happened October 31st,
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the day before November 1st.
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So then we have also a later edition on November 2nd to where
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that would be the All Souls Day.
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So that was where you were to take time as Catholic to pray for
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those who are still
5:57
SPEAKER_00: in purgatory.
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SPEAKER_00: that they would be refined, and then eventually be able to join God.
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SPEAKER_00: So these sort of three days came meshing together within Catholicism,
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SPEAKER_00: and they happened to be around the same time as Samhain as well.
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And so there's kind of been this myth that perhaps the Catholic
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Church created this
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SPEAKER_00: holiday to try to give a Christian version,
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SPEAKER_00: so to speak,
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SPEAKER_00: of Samhain to the ancient Celts,
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SPEAKER_00: but there really isn't any evidence to support that.
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SPEAKER_00: It just happened to be a coincidence of days.
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That's really interesting that those different cultural
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traditions merged into what
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SPEAKER_01: we now know as Halloween.
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SPEAKER_01: When did Halloween as we know it begin?
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SPEAKER_00: So that happened really late, actually.
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So we see it really taking root in America around the 1900s
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with the immigration of
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SPEAKER_00: Irish settlers.
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And what's funny is there was a bit of a shift to where
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Halloween became like a
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SPEAKER_00: night of destruction.
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SPEAKER_00: The towns,
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how they would do it is they would put out things that the kids
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could burn or
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SPEAKER_00: destroy.
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SPEAKER_00: That sounds safe.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know, right?
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SPEAKER_00: Don't you love parenting in the early 1900s?
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SPEAKER_00: Go light things on fire.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
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just go light things on fire with your friends and bring your
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little sister and you
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SPEAKER_00: know,
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SPEAKER_00: to where yeah,
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SPEAKER_00: so they would they would go out and basically just destroy things.
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SPEAKER_00: And there was a woman out of Illinois, her name was Mrs. Krebs.
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She was getting so frustrated with her flower beds being
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destroyed by these kids
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SPEAKER_00: causing a ruckus.
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SPEAKER_00: She wanted to preserve her flowers.
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SPEAKER_00: So she started a parade a costume parade and
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SPEAKER_00: to where the kids could get dressed up.
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SPEAKER_00: They'd do a little parade through the town,
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SPEAKER_00: show off their clever costumes,
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SPEAKER_00: because all of it was handmade back then.
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SPEAKER_00: And then she gave them all a treat at the end of it.
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SPEAKER_00: And it was so popular that it just sort of caught on.
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SPEAKER_00: And it got to the point to where there were so many kids involved that it
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SPEAKER_00: transitioned into,
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SPEAKER_00: OK,
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SPEAKER_00: going from house to house and do the little trick-or-treating,
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SPEAKER_00: and the parents would give the treats.
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And it evolved into this more community event rather than
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ancient druid worship.
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SPEAKER_01: So the spooky elements of Halloween that we see today,
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SPEAKER_01: is that just because of the origins,
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like how it did have to do with that veil thinning and helping
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our relatives in
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SPEAKER_01: purgatory?
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SPEAKER_00: Some of them are, you know, we carve pumpkins now.
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SPEAKER_00: They actually didn't used to carve pumpkins.
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They used to carve turnips,
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which is pretty impressive to me because a turnip's fairly
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small.
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SPEAKER_00: They were so tiny.
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SPEAKER_00: I know,
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SPEAKER_00: but they would carve them and put the candles in,
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and those were meant to sort of be spooky and scary and scare
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away evil spirits
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SPEAKER_00: around the house.
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SPEAKER_00: So we do see some things pulling in to where...
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SPEAKER_00: Instead of turnips,
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now we carve pumpkins because that is so much easier and a
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little more stable.
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SPEAKER_00: If you watch Call the Midwife, they'll have Halloween episodes.
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SPEAKER_00: And what's cute is you'll see the kids,
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SPEAKER_00: they've got these sticks with the little turnips hanging from it.
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SPEAKER_00: So you get to kind of see what the lanterns look like back then.
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And then,
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of course,
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you know,
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with the with the treats,
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there are anchors into food offerings.
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SPEAKER_00: That's why the kids say trick or treat,
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SPEAKER_00: because it was believed if you gave an offering,
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SPEAKER_00: then they wouldn't curse your house.
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SPEAKER_00: And so now you have little kids who are going up saying trick or treat.
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SPEAKER_00: And it's it's just to get a fun size Hershey bar.
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SPEAKER_00: So there are some things that have anchors in ancient ceremonies.
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SPEAKER_00: However, a lot of what we're seeing today has shifted into just gore.
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SPEAKER_00: Like the 90s really ushered in that sort of horror movie genre.
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SPEAKER_00: I mean,
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SPEAKER_00: we had it previously with Texas Chainsaw Massacre,
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SPEAKER_00: but it seems like really in the 90s,
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SPEAKER_00: that's where you saw,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: Scream,
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SPEAKER_00: I Know What You Did Last Summer.
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To where now so much of Halloween decorations is just that it's
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just horror movie.
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It makes your front yard look like it's just a scene from these
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awful movies.
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SPEAKER_00: And so,
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SPEAKER_00: yeah,
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SPEAKER_00: those things are now more of a modern implement of saying,
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SPEAKER_00: OK,
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SPEAKER_00: this isn't just,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: fun with the kids decorating.
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SPEAKER_00: Now let's try to scare people and let's use really graphic ways to do so,
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SPEAKER_00: which is,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: those haunted houses that you can pay to go to now.
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SPEAKER_00: It's all just like body parts hanging.
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SPEAKER_00: It's awful.
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SPEAKER_00: So that's that's modern influence right there.
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I'll never forget,
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like two years ago,
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I think,
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my kids were maybe four and five.
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SPEAKER_01: We walked into a party city.
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SPEAKER_01: And as soon as we walk in,
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SPEAKER_01: there's this 20-foot tall,
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demonic-looking skeleton with a hood and a bloody axe that was
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coming down towards
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SPEAKER_01: the kids.
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SPEAKER_01: And they were so scared.
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SPEAKER_01: They were almost crying.
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SPEAKER_01: It's like, why is that necessary?
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: We've seen that before.
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SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's just me.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: No, it's not just you.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm with you.
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There have been times when my kids were little and we would go
10:14
trick or treating.
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SPEAKER_00: There were some houses that were set up like, you know, the awful stuff.
10:18
And there's a creepy guy with his,
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you know,
10:19
fake chainsaw and everything.
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SPEAKER_00: That's just there to be gross and, you know, degradation of human life.
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SPEAKER_00: I was like, nope, we're not going to go to that house.
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SPEAKER_00: We'll go over next door.
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SPEAKER_01: This is actually a great segue to my next question.
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Our family generally stays away from the violent and spooky
10:36
elements of Halloween
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SPEAKER_01: because they just bother us.
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But can you unpack how that's specifically unchristian or
10:45
against our Christian values and why?
10:48
yeah so the biggest aspect with modern halloween celebrations
10:51
is that it is a
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complete degradation of human life to where so much of the
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celebration is focused
10:57
not only within the demonic realm but within you know slasher
11:00
films body parts
11:02
hanging around gratuitous violence i mean it is it is a horror
11:06
show as believers
11:07
what we acknowledge is that life is precious and so that is not
11:11
to be reduced to a
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SPEAKER_00: punchline or a scene in a horror movie flick
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SPEAKER_00: So all of those,
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SPEAKER_00: like,
11:16
SPEAKER_00: especially with my boys,
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SPEAKER_00: when they were little,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: I would tell them like,
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SPEAKER_00: we're not going to be,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: there's no sort of demonic costumes,
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SPEAKER_00: no axe murderer costumes,
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SPEAKER_00: none of that stuff,
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because we're not going to play around and celebrate with that
11:28
really just
11:29
degradation of humanity and the objectification of the human
11:32
body that we see so
11:34
SPEAKER_00: prevalent within Halloween.
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SPEAKER_00: And having a daughter now,
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SPEAKER_00: we're going to have to also talk about Halloween costumes too,
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SPEAKER_00: because unfortunately,
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SPEAKER_00: as you all know,
11:41
SPEAKER_00: as a girl mom,
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I mean,
11:42
after about that 9,
11:44
10 age range,
11:45
all of the costumes get very suggestive.
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SPEAKER_00: And so now it's, okay, how are we also seeing sexuality exploited?
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So as Christians,
11:52
we always want to draw to what is good,
11:54
true,
11:55
and beautiful.
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SPEAKER_00: And so when it comes to a lot of modern Halloween celebrations...
11:59
SPEAKER_00: It glorifies in the occult.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: It glorifies in acts murder and gratuitous violence.
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SPEAKER_00: And that is something that we just, we don't play around with.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: We don't celebrate.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: Especially now that I've got a two-year-old little girl,
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SPEAKER_00: I'm shifting more towards harvest festivals at church to where,
12:14
SPEAKER_00: oh,
12:14
SPEAKER_00: this is a time of fellowship that we keep the focus on Christ.
12:16
If the kids want to dress up,
12:18
no big thing,
12:18
they're going to get some candy.
12:19
But it's eliminating opportunities of encountering horror and
12:24
gore that I think is important.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: So hard to avoid.
12:28
SPEAKER_01: Like even our boys love watching football, NFL Sundays with my husband.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:33
But even like in the commercials,
12:34
there are all these horror movies advertised.
12:37
SPEAKER_01: And the commercials are legitimately scary.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: Like how has this now become entertainment?
12:42
That's unsettling and problematic because if a culture has been
12:45
so desensitized...
12:46
SPEAKER_00: to the demonic and the occult,
12:48
SPEAKER_00: then that allows for potentially a stronghold to occur within Satan.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: And so that is how we have had the discussions with our kids.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: And they understand it.
12:57
And that's what kids want,
12:58
because when they understand why,
13:00
that's where reverence comes in.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: So when they understand, oh, this isn't just for fun.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: This actually celebrates someone abusing another person's body.
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SPEAKER_00: That's not okay.
13:09
That helps them understand when mom and dad say,
13:11
no,
13:11
we're not going to participate in that.
13:12
And there's less of a hostile reaction from the child or,
13:16
oh,
13:16
that's unfair.
13:17
It's just so important for us to give them a good theology with
13:20
regards to this.
13:21
So that way they can stand firm and confidence in their faith
13:24
and not maybe get
13:24
lured into something that could even potentially lure them into
13:28
the occult.
13:30
Speaking of the occult and reasons why Christians shouldn't
13:33
celebrate Halloween,
13:34
let's talk about what the Wiccans used that day for and the
13:39
Satanists as well.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: So Adam LaVey,
13:43
SPEAKER_00: he was the founder of modern Satanism,
13:45
SPEAKER_00: and he basically called Halloween Satan's Day.
13:48
Now,
13:48
from a theological standpoint,
13:49
this is completely false because Satan does not have a day.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: God never gave him a day.
13:54
SPEAKER_00: Also,
13:54
SPEAKER_00: when we look at ancient Samhain celebrations,
13:57
SPEAKER_00: there was a fluctuation of when it would be celebrated.
14:01
So while a lot of individuals who celebrate on Halloween have
14:05
stuck to October
14:06
SPEAKER_00: 31st,
14:07
SPEAKER_00: that actually isn't consistent with ancient Samhain practices.
14:10
In fact,
14:11
there's actually a lot of debate among pagans,
14:13
neo-pagans,
14:14
Wiccans,
14:14
that sort of thing.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: on when to actually celebrate it.
14:17
SPEAKER_00: However,
14:18
SPEAKER_00: and I can tell you from personal experience,
14:20
SPEAKER_00: because I pursued Wicca for a year in high school,
14:23
SPEAKER_00: what I can tell you is that on Halloween,
14:25
SPEAKER_00: there are individuals that get together and they will do ceremonies.
14:28
SPEAKER_00: They will often try to do some sort of scrying,
14:32
SPEAKER_00: which is,
14:32
SPEAKER_00: you know,
14:32
SPEAKER_00: trying to contact the spiritual realm,
14:35
SPEAKER_00: whether it's to gain wisdom,
14:36
SPEAKER_00: to contact with some sort of spirits,
14:39
SPEAKER_00: which I will affirm here,
14:40
SPEAKER_00: there are no such thing as good ghosts and bad ghosts.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: There's only the demonic realm.
14:44
I guess my next question would be if Wiccans are using the
14:48
holiday for magic and
14:50
SPEAKER_01: Satanists are using the holiday to worship Satan,
14:53
SPEAKER_01: does that make Halloween in and of itself bad?
14:58
SPEAKER_01: Should we avoid it because of those things?
15:00
And then I want to go into why it would be okay to celebrate
15:03
Halloween too.
15:05
yeah so this is it's a tough question to answer because in some
15:09
sense if a group of
15:11
individuals picks out a day to celebrate it does that
15:14
necessarily corrupt that day
15:16
completely i don't think that just because they have chosen one
15:21
day that that day
15:22
is completely corrupted because again all of time belongs to
15:24
god there's also
15:26
amazing things that have happened on october 31st we have
15:29
martin luther nailing the
15:30
SPEAKER_00: 95 theses uh to the front door
15:32
SPEAKER_00: of the church,
15:32
SPEAKER_00: which is why if you're on a seminary campus,
15:34
SPEAKER_00: you'll actually see theology professors,
15:36
their students will very often glue 95 Reese's onto their front
15:40
door as sort of a
15:41
SPEAKER_00: tongue in cheek reference to Luther.
15:44
So we can say,
15:45
okay,
15:45
the start of the Protestant Reformation happened on October
15:48
31st.
15:49
kind of a big deal yeah yeah so uh there's ways there's ways to
15:54
you know point out
15:55
SPEAKER_00: the good that's happening on there and when we say that well halloween is
15:58
completely corrupted to its core we can't have anything to do
16:00
with it in some ways
16:02
we have to be careful because what that means is if i'm
16:04
trick-or-treating or if i'm
16:05
putting a pumpkin out or something then i'm maybe engaging in
16:08
some sort of devil
16:10
SPEAKER_00: worship idol worship that sort of thing
16:12
SPEAKER_00: But the flip side of that is,
16:14
SPEAKER_00: well,
16:14
SPEAKER_00: that means that if any person walks into a church,
16:17
SPEAKER_00: sits and sings the songs,
16:18
SPEAKER_00: well,
16:18
SPEAKER_00: that makes them a Christian.
16:19
SPEAKER_00: So works in and of themselves don't necessarily count as worship.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: What makes for actual worship?
16:25
SPEAKER_00: It's a relationship with God and a point of veneration in there.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes trying to separate from the demonic and evil,
16:34
SPEAKER_00: if we're not careful,
16:35
SPEAKER_00: that can bleed into things that are innocuous.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: There was a few years ago,
16:40
SPEAKER_00: I was walking into a store and there was a fall display,
16:44
SPEAKER_00: just a stack of plastic pumpkins,
16:45
SPEAKER_00: you know,
16:45
SPEAKER_00: that you could buy.
16:46
And there was a little boy who had picked it up and he's like,
16:48
look,
16:48
mom,
16:48
a pumpkin.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: And his older brother says, no, you need to put that down.
16:51
SPEAKER_00: Don't you know that's the devil's day?
16:53
SPEAKER_00: You're engaging in devil worship.
16:54
SPEAKER_00: And the kid dropped the pumpkin.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: And he looked terrified.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: And the mom nodded and was like, yep, yep.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: And she moved on.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like,
17:00
SPEAKER_00: oh my gosh,
17:01
this kid's going to be terrified of pumpkins now because he's
17:03
going to think this
17:04
SPEAKER_00: common...
17:05
This squash that we see very prevalent in centerpieces and
17:09
stuff around Halloween
17:10
SPEAKER_00: and Thanksgiving.
17:11
SPEAKER_00: Now he's going to think,
17:12
SPEAKER_00: man,
17:12
SPEAKER_00: if I even touch this thing,
17:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm engaging in demonic worship of some sort.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: And then especially for these kids,
17:19
SPEAKER_00: if they're going to school,
17:20
SPEAKER_00: if they're brought up telling,
17:21
SPEAKER_00: oh man,
17:21
anyone who dresses in a costume and goes trick-or-treating is
17:24
engaging in devil
17:25
SPEAKER_00: worship.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: Well,
17:25
they're going to look at their whole classmates and say every
17:28
single person's a
17:29
SPEAKER_00: devil worshiper.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: And that may not be the case.
17:31
They may just be a kid who's excited to dress up like Paw
17:33
Patrol and get some candy.
17:35
So that's where I think it's important for us that we're called
17:37
in Colossians 4,
17:39
SPEAKER_00: 6 to have all of our conversations heaping with grace,
17:41
but seasoned with salt so that our children understand the
17:44
truth and the reality of
17:45
SPEAKER_00: the matter,
17:45
but also have the grace to recognize that a lot of these kids
17:49
that are going out
17:49
SPEAKER_00: trick or treating,
17:50
SPEAKER_00: they're not doing any form of
17:52
SPEAKER_00: idol worship.
17:53
SPEAKER_00: They're not doing any sort of demonic activity.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: They're just going for a fun-sized Snickers bar.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's the whole motivation.
17:59
And I think that'll help guard kids from perhaps a dangerous
18:02
form of legalism when
18:03
SPEAKER_00: it comes to this holiday.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: Makes a lot of sense.
18:07
SPEAKER_01: So pumpkins, innocuous, Paw Patrol, innocuous.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: It brings up the interesting question of where to draw the line.
18:15
So I thought it could be fun to do a little lightning round
18:18
where I mentioned some
18:19
SPEAKER_01: different Halloween motifs and tell me,
18:22
SPEAKER_01: okay,
18:23
SPEAKER_01: not okay.
18:25
SPEAKER_00: I will do my best.
18:25
SPEAKER_00: And just fair warning, this is based on personal conviction.
18:29
SPEAKER_00: And first and foremost,
18:30
always seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit when it comes to
18:31
these issues.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: Got it.
18:35
SPEAKER_00: So pumpkins, non jack-o'-lantern variety.
18:39
SPEAKER_00: Not a problem.
18:39
They are just a squash and they're absolutely beautiful this
18:41
time of year.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: Just a squash.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: What about carving jack-o'-lanterns?
18:48
SPEAKER_00: Me personally, I don't have a problem with carving jack-o-lanterns.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: It's a fun, spooky face.
18:53
I think it actually can give an opportunity to even have a
18:55
discussion of why they
18:57
would carve the jack-o-lanterns and the purpose of it so that
19:00
kids understand the
19:01
SPEAKER_00: reason why.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: So play that one by ear,
19:04
SPEAKER_00: but use it as an opportunity to discuss why jack-o-lanterns were carved.
19:08
SPEAKER_01: For us,
19:08
we have a fun family tradition of carving them and we do silly
19:12
cute faces,
19:12
SPEAKER_01: not demonic looking ones.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, us too.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: We would always do cute faces.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: And I mean,
19:17
SPEAKER_00: man,
19:17
you could even do like fun different themes to where if you
19:20
want to do like a Bible
19:21
SPEAKER_00: verse,
19:21
SPEAKER_00: that sort of thing.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: There's so many opportunities.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, we always draw the line at anything gruesome.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: Speaking of gruesome, spooky ghosts.
19:29
Yeah,
19:29
anything that was gory,
19:32
demonic,
19:32
that sort of thing,
19:33
we stayed away from.
19:34
cute ghosts like the little snapchat variety man that is a
19:39
tough one i would say
19:41
base that on your kids um if they understand the difference
19:44
between perhaps a
19:45
cutesy decoration because they're going to see a target now has
19:48
a bunch of little
19:48
puppies dressed up in those like the kids need to know the
19:51
difference but that
19:52
might be one to sort of steer away from if kids aren't mature
19:54
enough to understand
19:55
SPEAKER_00: the difference between a cartoon and the reality of the demonic realm
20:00
SPEAKER_01: Talk about witches.
20:02
Spooky witches versus cute witches and also accessories like
20:06
witch's hats and broomsticks.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: So any of that stuff can be seen as cutesy.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: Like, oh gosh, you really can.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: You can make dinosaurs and cockroaches adorable.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: I mean, just ask Disney.
20:17
SPEAKER_00: Cockroaches?
20:18
SPEAKER_00: So...
20:20
SPEAKER_00: That one I would say, I would say play by ear.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: Don't engage with it if your children don't know the difference between
20:26
SPEAKER_00: make-believe and reality.
20:28
SPEAKER_00: Because unfortunately a lot within the neo-pagan,
20:31
SPEAKER_00: the Wiccan religion,
20:32
SPEAKER_00: they still do a lot of the capes and things.
20:35
SPEAKER_00: So there is some correlation in there.
20:37
So that one,
20:37
I would say that one's more of that gray leaning to maybe not
20:41
engage with that one.
20:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's one that we've sort of started to stay away from too.
20:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: Speaking of witches, black cats, bats, vampires.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: I guess those aren't all in the same category.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: Maybe just black cats and bats for now.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: So the vampires know black cats, they're just cats.
20:59
But unfortunately,
21:00
you know,
21:01
they try to say they have this spooky connotation.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: I would use that as an opportunity to be like,
21:04
SPEAKER_00: is a black cat any,
21:06
SPEAKER_00: you know,
21:06
SPEAKER_00: spookier than an orange cat?
21:08
SPEAKER_00: No, you know, or our calico cat, that sort of thing.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: Nope, it's just a cat.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: So if anything, sort of demystify, de-spookify these creatures.
21:15
SPEAKER_00: And what are bats?
21:16
SPEAKER_00: You know, bats are really helpful for taking out the mosquito population.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: They don't change into vampires, that sort of thing.
21:22
So I would,
21:22
those two things,
21:23
I would actually discuss,
21:24
okay,
21:24
what are they actually?
21:25
SPEAKER_00: How have they been kind of co-opted into this sort of culture there?
21:28
SPEAKER_00: And nope, bats are helpful little creatures around our community.
21:32
Cats are just fluffy little balls that we enjoy,
21:35
but they're not spooky or demonic in any way.
21:39
i'm sensing a pattern here that a lot of it just has to do with
21:42
talking to your
21:43
kids discernment oh my gosh rebecca discernment is key with
21:46
these kids uh because
21:47
they they naturally want to know and you can use all things to
21:51
the glory of god if
21:52
we are just bold enough to speak about them so you can talk
21:54
about and be like oh
21:55
this is you know kind of why people see cats are spooky so yeah
21:58
take advantage of
21:59
those little moments and have these great discussions because
22:01
your kids want to
22:02
SPEAKER_00: know
22:03
SPEAKER_01: What do you tell your kids about superstition?
22:06
SPEAKER_01: Because I always say it's not a Christian thing.
22:08
SPEAKER_01: And so you don't have to worry about a black cat crossing your path.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: We're free from all that.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: And we're called not to give into superstition and even old wives tales,
22:16
SPEAKER_00: which while I was pregnant,
22:18
SPEAKER_00: I actually had to sort of disengage with that because,
22:20
SPEAKER_00: you know,
22:20
SPEAKER_00: when you're waiting to figure out whether you have a boy or a girl.
22:22
There's all these different old wives tales on how to figure
22:25
that out before the
22:26
SPEAKER_00: blood test comes back.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: And then I read that passage and I'm like, darn it.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: I got to stay away from this.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: So when it comes to superstitions,
22:35
what's helpful for kids to know is usually this is based on an
22:39
actual occurrence.
22:39
SPEAKER_00: Like somebody,
22:40
SPEAKER_00: you know,
22:41
walked under a ladder and then something bad happened to them
22:43
right after.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: And then they thought,
22:44
SPEAKER_00: oh,
22:44
it's because I went under the ladder or it's because a black
22:47
cat crossed my path.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: So they're somewhat rooted in truth,
22:50
SPEAKER_00: meaning something negative did happen,
22:52
SPEAKER_00: but then they jump to the conclusion that,
22:54
SPEAKER_00: oh,
22:55
SPEAKER_00: if this happens at all,
22:57
SPEAKER_00: then something bad is going to occur.
22:59
Like if you,
22:59
you know,
22:59
you step on a crack,
23:00
you'll break your mother's back.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: So I think with kids, it's okay.
23:03
This was based on perhaps a negative experience that happened
23:06
to someone that
23:07
SPEAKER_00: potentially made them scared or fearful of this.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: But is that true?
23:11
Is it the case that anytime a black cat walks in front of you,
23:14
then bad luck's going to happen?
23:15
SPEAKER_00: And kids are, they're clever.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: They're like, no, of course not.
23:18
SPEAKER_00: So again, demystifying the superstition around the belief.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: In terms of costumes,
23:25
I guess you've talked about how the violent and the sexy ones
23:29
are not good,
23:30
SPEAKER_01: but other costumes,
23:31
SPEAKER_01: okay?
23:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
23:32
SPEAKER_00: so within our family,
23:34
we didn't really have much of a problem with costumes because
23:37
of the discussions we
23:37
SPEAKER_00: had.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: They weren't ever drawn to the graphic, the violent, that sort of thing.
23:41
I mean,
23:41
my kids dressed up as,
23:44
oh gosh,
23:44
you know,
23:44
Marshall from the Paw Patrol,
23:46
a soldier.
23:47
SPEAKER_00: You had a Marshall too.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, yeah.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: In fact,
23:50
I think we had Marshall for a couple years because that was a
23:52
hardcore Paw Patrol
23:53
SPEAKER_00: addiction for like four years.
23:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:55
SPEAKER_00: So, oh, my son was an inflatable dinosaur one year.
23:58
SPEAKER_00: Not a problem.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: We had a soldier at one point, Batman at one point.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: You know, these are mythological characters.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: And what's amazing,
24:05
SPEAKER_00: especially if they're into Marvel heroes,
24:07
SPEAKER_00: there's a really good book you can get.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: It's called Hollywood Heroes by Frank Turek and his son.
24:11
They show how these movies actually are a reflection of
24:15
Christianity and how some
24:17
SPEAKER_00: of their best plot points,
24:18
SPEAKER_00: they actually pull from scripture.
24:20
And so if you've got a kid who wants to dress up like Batman or
24:23
Indiana Jones or
24:25
You know,
24:25
even Harry Potter,
24:26
they cover Harry Potter in that book as well.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: That's what I was going to ask next.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: Harry Potter.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: They cover Harry Potter to where you can get that book and then be like,
24:34
SPEAKER_00: okay,
24:34
SPEAKER_00: you know,
24:35
SPEAKER_00: daughter's wanting to dress like Hermione or whatever.
24:38
SPEAKER_00: You can go and read and say, okay, how does Harry Potter, how did J.K.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: Rowling pull in biblical themes throughout the book and have this amazing
24:44
SPEAKER_00: Christ-centered conversation?
24:46
SPEAKER_00: And so it's one of those to where,
24:47
SPEAKER_00: you know,
24:47
we're told in second Timothy that not to have that spirit of
24:50
fear to where when it
24:51
SPEAKER_00: comes to Halloween and all this stuff,
24:53
SPEAKER_00: perhaps some of our fears just rooted in a lack of knowledge to where,
24:56
SPEAKER_00: man,
24:56
SPEAKER_00: if we just dive into some information,
24:58
SPEAKER_00: boldly speak about it to our kids,
25:00
then all of a sudden the fear goes down because now we've taken
25:02
away the mystery,
25:03
SPEAKER_00: the allure,
25:04
SPEAKER_00: that sort of thing.
25:05
SPEAKER_00: And we've been able to point it back to Christ.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: So what about fantasy and magic books, costumes, characters?
25:15
SPEAKER_01: I mean, C.S.
25:16
Lewis,
25:16
of course,
25:17
wrote Narnia,
25:17
which is a whole allegory for Christianity.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: Love those.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: But I mean, Harry Potter sounds like it's okay.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: So there's biblical themes within Harry Potter.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: There's also a lot of pagan themes within C.S.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: Lewis Chronicles of Narnia.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he's got Bacchus.
25:31
SPEAKER_00: In one of the books, he was the god of drunken revelry.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: So that's where,
25:36
SPEAKER_00: again,
25:36
it's really important for us to not drift into hyper-legalism
25:40
when it comes to
25:40
SPEAKER_00: this,
25:41
SPEAKER_00: because if we're saying,
25:41
SPEAKER_00: okay,
25:43
SPEAKER_00: any depiction of this is evil and bad,
25:45
SPEAKER_00: well then,
25:45
SPEAKER_00: of course,
25:46
SPEAKER_00: C.S.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: Lewis, Tolkien, all of that falls into there.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: So that's where we need that bit of discernment.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: So...
25:51
And let me look,
25:52
if you don't mind me looking up this one book that I was
25:54
offered.
25:54
So it's called On Magic and Miracles,
25:57
The Theological Guide to Discernment.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: when it comes to discerning fictional magic.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: So this was written by Marian Jacobs.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: And so I was offered that book by a reader.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: She said,
26:08
SPEAKER_00: oh,
26:08
this was fantastic in helping discuss those elements that we
26:12
see within witchcraft,
26:13
SPEAKER_00: you know,
26:14
SPEAKER_00: centaurs,
26:14
that sort of thing that we see across the mythical realm with
26:19
regards to Lewis,
26:20
SPEAKER_00: Tolkien and Rowling.
26:21
And so again,
26:22
Hollywood heroes and on magic and miracles would be a great
26:25
resource to dive into.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: Because,
26:27
SPEAKER_01: yeah,
26:27
you don't want to stifle your kid's imagination or make them
26:30
think that anything
26:31
SPEAKER_01: made up is bad.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: Imagination is a gift from God.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: And some of our children have an overflowing abundance of that gift.
26:38
And to where now it's one of those things to where we want to
26:41
channel imagination
26:42
SPEAKER_00: for the glory of the kingdom.
26:44
SPEAKER_00: And we can do that even with what the world provides.
26:47
SPEAKER_00: So we just have to boldly take advantage of it.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: All right, back to our where to draw the line.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: Halloween music, like Ghostbusters, Thriller, Addams Family theme song.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: One-armed, one-horned, flying purple peevelator.
27:03
SPEAKER_00: The monster mash.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: Okay, often those are just... The monster mash.
27:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know.
27:08
SPEAKER_00: And those are... I love it.
27:10
Anytime I hear that,
27:10
I instantly think of being a kid back in choir class.
27:14
SPEAKER_00: We're in full-on fiction with that.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: That's just more of like funny, goofy.
27:18
You know,
27:18
it's...
27:19
I don't see a lot of things that are truly inherently harmful.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: It's just, oh, this is a spooky song.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, spooky, right?
27:25
SPEAKER_00: In a very G-rated sense to where it's just more...
27:29
funny noises and little references to mythological creatures
27:32
like werewolves and
27:32
SPEAKER_00: that sort of thing.
27:33
SPEAKER_00: No, those aren't actually real.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: And so I don't see much harm in those songs.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: But again, each person's discretion.
27:39
SPEAKER_01: Because I know, too, that you are what you surround yourself with.
27:43
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm pretty careful about, you know, movies, TV shows, music.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: So along those lines,
27:49
SPEAKER_01: what about horror movies,
27:51
SPEAKER_01: like the really creepy,
27:54
SPEAKER_01: violent ones,
27:54
SPEAKER_01: but also the kids' movies like Hocus Pocus,
27:57
SPEAKER_01: Beetlejuice?
27:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: So,
27:59
SPEAKER_00: uh,
28:00
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
28:01
SPEAKER_00: no contest,
28:01
SPEAKER_00: any sort of horror movie,
28:04
SPEAKER_00: there's no,
28:04
SPEAKER_00: no,
28:04
SPEAKER_00: like that,
28:06
SPEAKER_00: that is a hard stop.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: No,
28:07
SPEAKER_00: because any,
28:07
SPEAKER_00: any movie that sort of glorifies this celebrates it and revels in it,
28:11
SPEAKER_00: um,
28:12
SPEAKER_00: this is going to have an impact on you mentally,
28:14
SPEAKER_00: spiritually.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: Because yes, what you consume, it will affect you.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: And so that's hard stop no.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: When it comes to kids' movies, I gotta urge caution with those.
28:25
SPEAKER_00: It really depends on the personality of the kid.
28:27
Some kids are very attuned into truth and falsehood and they'll
28:32
be able to spot the
28:32
SPEAKER_00: lies and they won't be affected.
28:34
SPEAKER_00: But other kids will be lured in.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: And just speaking from personal experience,
28:37
SPEAKER_00: there was a movie that came out when I was a kid called Halloween Town.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: And Halloween Town was about...
28:42
This grandmother who approaches her daughter and her daughter's
28:45
two children.
28:46
And the grandmother wants the daughter to tell the
28:48
granddaughter that she is,
28:49
SPEAKER_00: in fact,
28:50
SPEAKER_00: come from a lineage of witches.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: And so she gives the granddaughter a cloak and everything.
28:55
And the granddaughter,
28:56
when she puts on the cloak,
28:57
she spins around and she goes,
28:58
oh,
28:58
cool.
28:59
SPEAKER_00: I'm a Wiccan.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: And as a kid,
29:02
SPEAKER_00: I remember thinking,
29:03
SPEAKER_00: man,
29:03
SPEAKER_00: if Disney Channel is talking about Wiccans,
29:05
then Wiccans must not be bad because Disney Channel is a
29:08
channel for kids.
29:09
SPEAKER_00: So they wouldn't ever give kids bad things.
29:11
SPEAKER_00: And that's just not true.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: That's not how culture works.
29:14
Culture is actively inundating children with secular and even
29:19
satanic messages,
29:21
SPEAKER_00: LGBTQ affirming messages,
29:23
SPEAKER_00: all of these things.
29:23
SPEAKER_00: So we have to be very careful in vetting our kid shows.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: Now, I will say that one show didn't cause me to actually...
29:31
embrace wicca it was something that desensitized me to it to
29:34
where when i was in
29:34
high school i had a really bad experience with a girl who
29:38
claimed she was a
29:39
christian she was absolutely horrific to me and the only people
29:42
i could hang around
29:43
and they wouldn't mock me were was the wiccan group and they
29:46
said well you know you
29:47
really can't trust those christians because they actually added
29:49
passages in the
29:50
bible later to be able to persecute witches and you're actually
29:53
you have scottish
29:54
heritage so really pursuing after wicca that's more authentic
29:57
to who you are and
29:58
SPEAKER_00: And that was the tipping point for me.
30:00
It was actually the bad witness of the Christian and the pagan
30:03
crowd at my school
30:05
SPEAKER_00: actually feeding me full of lies.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: And I wasn't able to recognize it,
30:08
but I will say that that movie as a kid helped desensitize me
30:11
to it because gosh,
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SPEAKER_00: if the Disney channel's talking about Wicca,
30:15
SPEAKER_00: then why would it be bad?
30:16
SPEAKER_00: And we see other networks doing this too,
30:17
SPEAKER_00: whether it's like Owl House,
30:19
which incorporates actual witchcraft elements and satanic
30:23
elements within their TV
30:25
SPEAKER_00: shows.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: You really need to vet those carefully.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: And for the most part, just I would say probably keep those out.
30:31
SPEAKER_01: That is really interesting.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
30:33
I was just reflecting the other day on how I feel like a lot of
30:37
my bad decisions as
30:38
SPEAKER_01: a high schooler were caused by,
30:41
SPEAKER_01: not caused by,
30:42
SPEAKER_01: but maybe I was primed for them by the music I listened to.
30:45
SPEAKER_01: Those like Britney Spears pop songs and all of that.
30:49
SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, it's so important, the media that we show to our kids.
30:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: So let's shift over into practical advice,
30:57
SPEAKER_01: like for parents who want to avoid Halloween altogether.
31:02
Do you have any advice for them on fun things they could do on
31:05
Halloween or around
31:07
that time so that their kids aren't just sad and wishing they
31:11
could partake in
31:12
SPEAKER_01: Halloween?
31:12
SPEAKER_00: Feeling they're left out, man.
31:14
And that's probably going to take a little bit of work because
31:17
depending on your
31:18
SPEAKER_00: setup at home,
31:19
SPEAKER_00: like maybe if you have
31:20
SPEAKER_00: The lights shut off.
31:21
That's usually the universal symbol that if the lights are shut
31:23
off at the front of
31:24
SPEAKER_00: the house,
31:24
SPEAKER_00: then they're not taking trick-or-treaters.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: But I know that that probably doesn't stop all trick-or-treaters.
31:29
So it might be something to where you as a family,
31:32
you go to like a sort of family fun zone.
31:35
SPEAKER_00: Like we've got a place called Shenanigans that has...
31:37
SPEAKER_00: you know, bowling, laser tag games, that sort of thing.
31:39
And it could be a fun night away that you guys have to where
31:42
you're together as a family.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: Or if there's a good movie that's out,
31:46
SPEAKER_00: maybe we take a movie night or,
31:47
SPEAKER_00: you know,
31:48
SPEAKER_00: go out to eat,
31:48
SPEAKER_00: you're not going to be able to escape it altogether.
31:50
But that could be a fun way for you as a family to go and do
31:54
something together to
31:55
SPEAKER_00: nurture just family togetherness.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: I like that.
31:59
SPEAKER_01: So personally speaking, I
32:01
SPEAKER_01: What does your family do with Halloween?
32:03
SPEAKER_01: And do your kids go trick or treating?
32:06
SPEAKER_01: I know you have the older ones,
32:07
SPEAKER_01: so they're probably out of that phase,
32:09
SPEAKER_01: but what are you doing with your daughter?
32:12
SPEAKER_00: So we don't do any of the gory decorations or anything.
32:15
I just have fall stuff in my house because I love it and I
32:18
think it's beautiful.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: The fall leaves, the pumpkins, it's God's creation.
32:21
SPEAKER_00: We can surround our homes in that because that is the beauty of creation,
32:25
SPEAKER_00: which points back to the
32:26
divine creator it's beautiful and so uh maddie will probably do
32:30
a little bit of
32:31
trick-or-treating she's a huge bluey fan and so she's already
32:35
been kind of eyeing
32:36
SPEAKER_00: the bingo costumes and things so we'll probably do a little bit of
32:40
trick-or-treating but you know we we are very proactive in
32:44
discussing with our kids
32:46
why this holiday is so popular,
32:48
the pagan origins of aspects of this holiday.
32:51
We also bring in Martin Luther because church history is always
32:54
fun to throw in there as well.
32:55
SPEAKER_00: So that way our kids understand the realities of the demonic realm,
32:59
but also understand that if you're dressing up and going for
33:02
candy to your
33:03
SPEAKER_00: neighbor's house on this day,
33:04
SPEAKER_00: that is not the same as satanic worship.
33:07
SPEAKER_00: Uh,
33:08
SPEAKER_00: so that way the kids aren't,
33:09
SPEAKER_00: they don't drift into this legalism,
33:11
SPEAKER_00: which a lot of kids really do.
33:12
SPEAKER_00: So we, we, that's how we've always operated in the past.
33:15
SPEAKER_00: And that's, that's how we're, we're going to move forward.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: We're already planning on doing a little bit of trick or treating,
33:19
SPEAKER_00: but yeah,
33:20
SPEAKER_00: you know,
33:20
SPEAKER_00: especially with her being two and even with my boys,
33:22
SPEAKER_00: we always steered away from,
33:24
SPEAKER_00: from the really gory houses.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: So it'll probably be a very low key, quick affair.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: And then we're,
33:28
SPEAKER_00: we're back home and you know,
33:30
I'm mostly eating the candy for myself because I do like those
33:33
small twixes.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
33:35
SPEAKER_01: Two-year-olds don't last very long anyway, trick-or-treating.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: No, yeah.
33:39
SPEAKER_01: It was like a 20-minute affair.
33:40
SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
33:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:41
SPEAKER_01: Here's my new Halloween idea.
33:43
Well,
33:43
this comes from the fact that our favorite household candy is
33:46
Reese's.
33:47
But you could emphasize the 95 Theses a little bit more and
33:52
maybe hand out some interesting...
33:55
SPEAKER_01: little pamphlet or something about that,
33:56
because a lot of people don't know that October 31st is also
34:01
known for Martin
34:02
SPEAKER_01: Luther nailing the 95 Theses.
34:04
SPEAKER_01: I think that's a really special thing that we could use Reese's for.
34:08
And everybody loves Reese's to where you could easily do a cute
34:11
Reese's and then a
34:12
SPEAKER_00: reference to Martin Luther.
34:13
SPEAKER_00: That would be hilarious.
34:14
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
34:16
no other time of the year are you going to have so many people
34:18
coming to your door
34:19
SPEAKER_00: to where they will actually,
34:20
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
34:21
SPEAKER_00: they'll sit out front.
34:22
SPEAKER_00: I've known people,
34:23
SPEAKER_00: they have their little burn pit,
34:24
SPEAKER_00: their coffees,
34:25
SPEAKER_00: depending on where you're at,
34:25
SPEAKER_00: but they'll sit out there and they have their candy,
34:27
SPEAKER_00: but they actually wrap either a Bible message around the piece of candy.
34:31
And they actually use it as a way to be like,
34:33
Hey,
34:33
are you a part of a church?
34:34
SPEAKER_00: You should come check out.
34:35
SPEAKER_00: We've got an amazing children's program.
34:37
to where they actually leverage the people coming in to point
34:40
them to Christ.
34:41
So again,
34:42
there's ways to be able to use this to the further into the
34:45
kingdom.
34:46
SPEAKER_01: So wrapping up,
34:47
you've talked about so many good ideas about how to navigate
34:50
Halloween with our
34:51
SPEAKER_01: kids.
34:52
Are there any Bible verses that you can point our listeners to
34:56
that would really
34:57
SPEAKER_01: kind of help illuminate this topic for them?
35:00
SPEAKER_00: A few of them we've mentioned throughout this podcast,
35:03
SPEAKER_00: but one that sticks out is 1 Corinthians 10 31.
35:06
So whatever you eat or drink or whatever you do,
35:09
do it for the glory of God.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: And that's recognizing that how we live our lives,
35:13
SPEAKER_00: even in just this small stuff,
35:15
we need to make sure that we are reflecting God's glory in the
35:17
midst of it.
35:18
And Halloween is one of those to where,
35:20
yes,
35:20
we can honor him by separating ourselves.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: And yes, we can also honor him by seeing it as an outreach event as well.
35:27
to maybe bring people to your church,
35:28
to your life group,
35:29
whatever it may be.
35:30
SPEAKER_00: So that could be a good opportunity depending on where God's calling.
35:33
SPEAKER_00: And then of course,
35:34
SPEAKER_00: we've got Colossians 4,
35:35
SPEAKER_00: 6,
35:35
SPEAKER_00: you know,
35:36
SPEAKER_00: let all your conversations be full of grace,
35:38
SPEAKER_00: seasoned with salt so that you know how to answer everyone.
35:41
SPEAKER_00: And that's just an important encouragement for parents
35:44
SPEAKER_00: to speak truthfully with regards to the holiday,
35:47
SPEAKER_00: help your children understand why,
35:49
SPEAKER_00: and to perhaps maybe practice conversations with them on,
35:52
SPEAKER_00: well,
35:52
SPEAKER_00: let's say your friend,
35:53
SPEAKER_00: you know,
35:54
SPEAKER_00: invites you over to a spooky Halloween party.
35:57
SPEAKER_00: You know, what would you, how would you respond?
35:58
Give your kids the ability to practice at home because it's a
36:01
safe space at home.
36:02
It helps them be more proficient in sharing their faith and
36:05
sharing the reasons why
36:06
SPEAKER_00: in a non-threatening matter.
36:08
SPEAKER_00: And of course,
36:08
SPEAKER_00: you know,
36:09
SPEAKER_00: as we mentioned,
36:09
SPEAKER_00: 2 Timothy 1,
36:11
SPEAKER_00: 7,
36:11
SPEAKER_00: for God has not given us a spirit of fear,
36:13
but of power and of love and of sound mind to where we don't
36:15
need to be afraid of
36:17
SPEAKER_00: Halloween.
36:17
SPEAKER_00: Instead,
36:18
we need to speak boldly about it with regards to our families
36:21
and help our children
36:22
SPEAKER_00: understand the background,
36:23
SPEAKER_00: how things have changed,
36:25
SPEAKER_00: and how we can now glorify God with what we do.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: And so again,
36:29
just taking those short passages there to help encourage not
36:32
only nurturing the
36:33
SPEAKER_00: faith,
36:34
but also living in a Christ-like way that shows people the
36:36
beauty of the gospel.
36:39
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
36:39
And I think the biggest takeaways for me personally are to not
36:43
be fearful of
36:44
SPEAKER_01: Halloween first,
36:45
and then also how you can sort of veer into legalistic
36:49
territory if you start
36:51
SPEAKER_01: judging everybody else for celebrating.
36:53
SPEAKER_01: So it's interesting.
36:55
and mama bear we've got a a guide i'm currently working on the
36:58
edits uh for it but
36:59
we've got a guide to halloween that goes into history why
37:03
people don't celebrate
37:04
why they're completely justified in not celebrating why some
37:07
people do participate
37:08
in the trick-or-treating and how to have a christ-like reaction
37:11
to that just so we
37:12
can help people understand both sides of the issue well so
37:15
we'll we'll have the
37:16
edits uh fixed up here soon and and then that guide available
37:19
on mama bear
37:19
SPEAKER_00: apologetics
37:21
So how can anyone watching or listening access your Mama Bear
37:25
Halloween guide and
37:27
SPEAKER_01: other useful resources?
37:29
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
37:29
SPEAKER_00: And we've got several.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: We've got one.
37:31
SPEAKER_00: I want to say we've got one for Easter.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: We got our Halloween,
37:34
SPEAKER_00: even Christmas,
37:34
SPEAKER_00: because some Christmas celebrations can also have some pagan roots there.
37:38
We had some questions about that a few years ago to where we
37:40
even did a podcast on
37:42
SPEAKER_00: it as well about a history of Christmas.
37:43
SPEAKER_00: Christmas.
37:44
SPEAKER_00: So if you're looking for all of that,
37:45
SPEAKER_00: you just need to go to our website,
37:46
SPEAKER_00: mama bear apologetics.com.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: That's M a M a bear apologetics, all one word.com.
37:53
SPEAKER_00: And on the resources,
37:54
SPEAKER_00: we have different guides and you sign up,
37:56
SPEAKER_00: you put your email in there and then boom,
37:57
SPEAKER_00: it's emailed directly to you.
37:59
SPEAKER_00: And so that is a, that is a place where you can go for information.
38:02
And then if you want to hit our blogs and podcasts and just
38:04
either type in
38:06
SPEAKER_00: Halloween ghosts,
38:07
SPEAKER_00: or,
38:07
SPEAKER_00: you know,
38:08
SPEAKER_00: if you're interested on the Christmas side of things,
38:09
SPEAKER_00: Christmas,
38:10
SPEAKER_00: cause that's going to be here before we know it,
38:12
SPEAKER_00: just type that in.
38:13
SPEAKER_00: It'll bring up all the resources for you to be able to listen, to grow.
38:16
SPEAKER_00: And especially like the one I recorded a year ago on ghosts,
38:20
SPEAKER_00: you could actually listen to that,
38:21
SPEAKER_00: especially if you've got older kids or teenagers,
38:22
SPEAKER_00: that's really helpful because the occult is really promoted among teens,
38:26
SPEAKER_00: especially,
38:26
SPEAKER_00: especially teen girls.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: And so that would be a good one to watch,
38:30
SPEAKER_00: even with your teenager,
38:31
SPEAKER_00: just so you could have good discussion.
38:33
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much, Amy.
38:34
SPEAKER_01: And I can personally vouch for the Mama Bear Christmas Guide.
38:38
It was amazing and really helped us throughout celebrating the
38:41
Advent season with our kids.
38:43
SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
38:44
SPEAKER_01: I loved this conversation and really appreciate your time.
38:47
SPEAKER_01: So thanks a lot.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you for having me.
38:51
SPEAKER_01: And thanks to all of you, our awesome listeners, for tuning in.
38:55
SPEAKER_01: Your support means so much.
38:57
SPEAKER_01: So if you enjoyed today's spooky conversation,
39:01
SPEAKER_01: be sure to subscribe and leave a review wherever you get your podcasts.
39:06
Stay inspired,
39:07
keep trusting in God's plan for your life,
39:09
and we'll see you next time.