Latest / The SH!T Sandwich Generation / How Do You Choose? The Sandwich is loaded with Guilt!

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How Do You Choose? The Sandwich is loaded with Guilt! · The SH!T Sandwich Generation

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: I can remember her thinking my mom's not going to be here forever, my dad's not going to be here forever either, and my kids, they're growing up, and they're gonna not gonna be at this age forever either.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: And how how do you sp how am I supposed to choose between the two?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: How does that happen?
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to this shit sandwich generation, the podcast for anyone stuck in the middle of caring for aging parents while raising kids of their own and navigating careers.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Dr.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: Marybath Parisi here with my sister Susan.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: And every two weeks we'll bring you raw, honest conversations about the chaos, the comedy, and the crap no one warned us about.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: From healthcare battles to family drama to unforeseen career paths, to those quiet moments when you just want to scream.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: This is where we talk about it all.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because if we're going to survive the sandwich, we might as well make it a damn good one.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm here with my sister Susan, and we are talking about the sandwich is just loaded with guilt.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: Do you agree, Susan?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Loaded with guilt.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there are so many layers to the shit sandwich.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: I know, Mary, you're thinking back on a specific time when things were really difficult.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: And uh you had that conflict between where to be.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think I'd like to hear how you felt at the time.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so I had, you know, my youngest again is is growing up.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: I have two in college, but he's he's in was in seventh grade, he's in eighth grade now, but he was in seventh grade.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: He had his first modified football game, and I had decided that day was gonna help my dad take my mom to her infusion.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: So as usual, I wouldn't meet them, meet them there, and we would, she would get her, she'd have to get some blood work first, and then we'd sit and wait for her infusion.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: I I figured that day I'd have plenty of time to get back to the football game.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: Not a problem.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: His first modified game, I wanted to be there.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: Didn't want to miss my youngest last, you know, first football game.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: So sitting there, hour goes by, two hours go by, looking at the clock, twiddling my thumbs, not twiddling my thumbs, really.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when we went to appointments, it was trying to keep my mom occupied.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: She was always like, I'm ready to leave.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: I don't find it.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to be here.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: She was here.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to be here.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: So it was keeping her her occupied, helping my dad kind of not get too stressed out while he was sitting there.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: So it was a little bit of a battle.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: So first hour, like I said, went by, second hour, and at that point I have to get up and ask.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: I hate, you know, going to the desk, but I'm I'm afraid I'm not gonna make it to the game.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: And now my head is starting to go to that, uh, what am I gonna do?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna miss my first son's football game, you know, not a big deal in some people's eyes, but I'm the type of mom, and I think you are, Susan.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: We don't want to miss things.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, I knew my his dad would be there, but uh that's not good enough for me.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: Also makes me feel a little, there's the guilt coming up, a little bad when he's there and I'm I'm not there.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: So a little some dynamics there.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: But again, so she ended up, it was like a three hour, four hour, I don't even remember the time, but I was not gonna make it on time to the to the game.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, we got out of there and we were down in in Harrison for those of you in New York and the traffic was horrendous.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: It was like four or five o'clock, and I was just sitting in traffic.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: And at this point, pick up the phone, I call Susan.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, Susan, I shouldn't maybe not have gone to the appointment.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe should have let someone else take take her.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: I maybe shouldn't have expected to go to the the football game.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: I feel really bad.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna probably gonna make it to the end, but I'm driving like a maniac too, and that's not good.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: So there was a lot of should have not maybe gone, what, but I don't want to I want to help my mom and dad.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: So there was that that guilt there, and I want to be at my son's uh football game.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: How do you navigate that, Susan?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's always the shoulds, I those deadly shoulds that you're sitting there.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Should I be here or should I be there?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the guilt goes along with that.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: It always feels like if you're in one place, you should be in another place at that time.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that's the crux of the matter when you're in the sandwich generation, it just creates an incredible amount of guilt and stress on top of it, right?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: You're sitting there, you're looking at the clock, and you're you're watching every single minute tick by, and then you're sitting in traffic going, okay, well, I thought maybe I would make it, but I'm not gonna make it.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's there are a lot of should I have done this, should I have done that?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Should I have been here?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Should I have been there?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it just creates this incredible amount of guilt.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, there's on top of that, there are other things in the mix too, right?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Should I be at work?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: Should I be answering a phone call for patients?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there was plenty of days that I, you know, I I went to a good portion of the infusions.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: I had to move move some meetings around.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: I was coaching at that point in time, so I had to rearrange coaching calls, not ideal to do.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: I I didn't try not to touch my my patient hours.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm lucky, my schedule is a little flexible, but I had to move meetings.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: I had to move those coaching calls.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a lot of, you know, how how do how do you do that?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: And is that okay?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: How did you feel?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I felt the same way in terms of there's this real tension that you're just feeling internally without an answer, right?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: There's no, I think that the crux of the matter is there's no right answer.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: And there's also no wrong answer.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Very true.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's a daily tension, which is exhausting in and of itself.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: You're just feeling daily guilt.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: You're wondering what are the implications?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's always like, if I do this, then what's going to happen over there, right?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're in one place, you're not in the other place.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: And either you're falling further behind there or you're not serving someone well there.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's constantly, constantly in the back of your mind.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I can remember, you know, taking a phone call, trying to take a phone call while I was sitting there with mom, either in the hospital or in the infusion, trying to concentrate on, you know, trying to concentrate on the call on work, but really wanted to be there for her and my dad.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it was, you know, it's stressful.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: You feel that in your your gut, you know, there's tension, there's stress.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's am I doing the right thing?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: Should I be more at work and not with my parents?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: But again, that again, you hear that in the back of your mind, right?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: They're not gonna be here too long.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's tough.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: And in mom's case, she also had a little dementia.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: So she was in the beginning of dementia, so it was like, how long is she gonna be here from a cognitive standpoint too?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: So how long am I gonna really be able to have um a meaningful discussion with mom?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what things do I need?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: I know we like tried to get her to tell stories at that point.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like all these stories you're trying to cram in.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: And and I'm getting chills right now because I think that is one of my biggest regrets, honestly.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: We didn't really have a lot of time to get those those stories.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, she unfortunately had a little dementia, and by the time from the hospital, the first hospital stay, really didn't have the time to have those conversations.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I really I I regret it.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: It makes me sad.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: It there's a lot of a little bit of, I guess, grief there.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, does anyone else have ever have that same kind of experience where you feel like you you missed out because you didn't take the time maybe that you should have to ask the questions?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: I definitely have that, and it's it hurts.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking about I'm thinking about the recipes, Mary.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I want to jump in here about the recipes because their mom was a cook.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: That was her love language was cooking.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: So she just loved to cook for the family and had very specific recipes for every single holiday that that she made.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, talking about stories or things that we could have done or should have done and that guilt, the recipes were one of them.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think we knew that we were gonna have a problem.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um she she would write down some of the recipes and always leave an ingredient out, which we joked was like the mystery ingredient.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was the mystery ingredient.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: She was always around to fill in the blank with a mystery ingredient.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it was really obvious, like I think these cookies should have sugar in it.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes it was more subtle, like were you making uh what was it that oh the uh hot crust buns?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: What did the hot crust buns not have in it?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: I can't remember, but I do remember one time she wrote it was I think baking soda or baking powder, and she wrote two and a half tablespoons in one of the cookies, and it was cutout cookies, and we had these ginormous cutout cookies.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, the recipes, we didn't have time to do those.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't, and I think, you know, that's one of the things I regret.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: And again, should we have sat there with her?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Here comes the shoulds, yeah.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that just that guilt and that missing out and the things I didn't think about that I wanted to ask her.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's there's a lot that I again that I wish I wish that I had asked that I I didn't and just sat down and maybe took the took the extra minutes, but again, life it, you know, again, we were in that that generation that you know went right from school, work, kids, and a little bit of a back burner to all of this until it actually hits.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a lot of regret on that, but good point.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: I love love the recipes.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: I still love pulling out the recipes and and figuring out what's missing.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: And usually I call Susan and say, Oh, do you have that recipe and what is yours looks like?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because this did not turn out right.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: But anyways, yeah.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I think you know, we all have in this this generation, it's it's some regrets on what we maybe should have done with our our parents that we didn't, or maybe some in this at this point in time, regrets of some things that might have missed with the kids that uh that my their dad, in my case, I'm separated, so their dad might be doing because he's got the time and I can't.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: And there's that that I don't know what kind of guilt would you call that, Susan.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I guess I would call that mother guilt.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, mom is supposed to supposed to be there, right?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: We have these ideas of what we're supposed to do as a mother, and and I, you know, honestly, for me, I really want to be there.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Those are the things that bring me joy.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, is being there with the kids and being there.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that being with mom and dad doesn't bring me joy, but I think mom and dad really put instilled values in us about being there for the family.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: A hundred percent.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: I I just remember dad knocking himself out knocking himself out to get from work to, you know, one of our sports games.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that was so meaningful for me.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think he instilled those values in us.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: And we're trying to instill them in the next generation too.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think again, was trying to get my kids to understand that their grandparents aren't, weren't gonna be here forever.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, trying to get them to come to functions, trying to get them.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: I know they're busy and they've got their, you know, school friends, but trying to get them to come to functions with the the family.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: And there's only so much you can, you don't want to force them, right?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: You want them to want to come and see their grandparents, and it can be a little disappointing if they they don't.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: But definitely times when I only had I have four, maybe two came and you know, had to go with that and just uh enjoy that.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I can remember towards towards the end, very thankful.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I think this is one of my daughters' most famous uh most favorite memory, I should say.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: Is one of my daughters loves to do nails, and she would do my mom's nails.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: And a few weeks before she she passed, Annabella Annabella went out there and sat with her and did her nails.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: My mom picked out what color she wanted to, and you know, very you know, we thought she really had a little dementia, but she had a perfect conversation with my daughter.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: Went out of the way.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: Which always made us wonder.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: Went on about the aid there, didn't like the aid.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: They had a whole conversation, probably talked for an hour.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: But my daughter and my daughter did her nails, did one of her favorite colors, purple, and you know, when she passed, she still had that still had it on, and that is, I think, a memory that my my daughter will will never forget.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: So you do it's hard to, you know, make them understand that they're not here forever.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: Is that gonna matter to them?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, you know, but want them to have those those memories.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think I had some guilt around did I instill the values that mom and dad um instilled in me in the kids.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: And this is one of the times that I think it showed up.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like I know family is really important to mom and dad, and family is really important to me, and feeling like, well, maybe I didn't do enough to instill those values.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's where a piece showed up for me.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: How did how did that feel when you when you kind of felt that?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was very difficult and a little sad, right?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, my kids are really good kids, right?
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: I just as are yours, as are probably most of yours that are listening.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: They're good kids.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: But again, they have their own lives, and I think this phase of their lives, you know, they're in their late teens, early twenties, they don't always get the whole picture.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I had to keep step stepping back and reminding myself of what I was like then.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Very good luck.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and that helped me, but it didn't, you know, still didn't, you know, quite get me to where I needed to be.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: But those little moments like Annabella going and and painting the nails, or I think Annalise came down and she went to, you know, she went to pizza with with dad and took him out to have something to eat.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: That was that was important.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Alexander too went and got cookies, and that's one of his things.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I think you know, those little moments are what we you know need to hold on to, but still there's a lot of guilt.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I want them there more.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: I want them to realize that, you know, mom and dad aren't gonna be here.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want them to have regrets.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and you know, they still are calling for the recipes that we don't have, but you know, so absolutely, you know, I just think guilt shows up in a lot of places and a lot of unexpected places in the sandwich generation.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'd like to take a take a kind of backtrack a little bit and go back to work because I think that's important for a lot of people.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we have jobs.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: We a lot of us have families and kids and we're we're navigating that, but we're we're also navigating careers, whether you have a full-time, part-time job, whatever job you have, uh, there's still choices to be made.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: And how do you make those choices, Susan?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think work for me was one of the hardest.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it comes back to that if I'm here, then I'm not there.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then at times we talked about this trying to do the meeting or the email or the quick phone call at mom's bedside or in the car, but you feel like you're never giving anyone the full attention.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll come back to uh ourselves too, but it was particularly tough for me.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: And the other thing that was tough was mom was recognizing it.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: And again, she had some dementia, but one of the things she consistently said to me, interestingly enough, was I'd work you're working too hard.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I don't know if she said that because she wanted me there and it was her way of getting me to stay, but you're working too hard.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I did take time to be with mom, particularly because there was a distance between where mom was in the hospital and at home and where I was working at the time.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I did have to take some time.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I still have a lot of guilt around that because subsequently my job was eliminated.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I to this day wonder to myself, you know, did this play into it?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that I spent time with her, I feel guilty that maybe I didn't wasn't doing enough for my job.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, because my job is around well-being, you know, am I letting all these people down?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I still wonder that and and have to work through that right now.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Was that a piece?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I wouldn't trade the time that I spent with mom for anything.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I I wouldn't, especially particularly because we didn't know she was going to pass when she did.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: I happened to be at work at a conference when she passed for work.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: And that's got to be a lot of reg a little bit of regret for the the work, you know, in the position that you're in now, trying to second guess yourself on the decisions that you made.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: And right.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's a lot of second guessing that goes on at the time.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's always that dance, and I call it a dance between being in one place and being in another place.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of an ugly dance, though.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't look so good when you think about it.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I I struggle with that, Mary.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: I I struggle that with that a lot, particularly because I think as physicians, we are trained to give our all.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the things that goes into our training as physicians is that we should put others before ourselves.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's the Hippocratic oath.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: The Hippocratic oath is to put others before ourselves.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really ingrained in us.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think whenever we're in a situation where we're putting others before ourselves, but we're in a place where we have to choose between this person or that person, it creates a lot of guilt for us.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: It does.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: The struggle is real.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: The struggle is definitely real.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the other thing is we're also trained, many of us that are in medicine are trained to be perfectionists, which is good.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we want we want to be on top of the labs, we want to be on top of the diagnosis, we want to be there.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: But this is one of those situations where there's not always a perfect answer.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: There is not a perfect answer.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to add that I think a lot of us are also, you know, I don't want to say perfectionists, but we're driven, right?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: That that, you know, A-type that everyone used to talk about.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: So makes it hard to, you know, have to make choices and sometimes maybe not be f as focused on your career as you should be.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's hard, especially for those of us that are.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when you hit the sandwich generation, a lot of times you are at sort of the pinnacle of your your career and up and coming.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're at a point where you've got enough experience, leadership skills to move to the next level, and then you're hit with uh all these competing priorities.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it makes it tough to how do you handle all those competing priorities, Mary?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: I how I know you have a lot of competing priorities.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: So how did you handle work at the time?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I think for me, uh, you know, it's hard to to choose.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: You you always have to to make a a choice.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: You and there's no right answer.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's the the key, right?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: There's n everyone's different and everyone's gonna make different choices.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: You have to make the choice that feels the best for for yourself.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: And that might be letting your career take a little bit of a back seat or let off a little bit.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: But I I will say I I think I I didn't realize until kind of it was, you know, all over how hard I was I was, and I don't want to say working, but how how hard I was working at being the best mom I could be, how hard I was working at coaching, how hard I was working at being my career, how hard I was working at being there for my parents, how hard I was working at being there for for my kids, and just was on the that treadmill of go, go, go.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we'll get to this, but I think you, you know, at some point lose a little bit of yourself.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: But it's a hard choice and there isn't a right answer.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: You just have to know whatever choice you make.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: You have to just go with it, right?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: And right.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you were there at the appointment, you were committed.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: But there is a lot of of loss.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think the other thing I think about Mary is we we have siblings, right?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: And our siblings are are driven as well.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's a sibling dynamic, I think, as well.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: And frustration around that, you know.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, absolutely.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's, you know, at times I think it was, well, why can't why can't my sibling do this?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: Why can't this one do this?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: They're not, doesn't look like, and you know, again, we're looking from the outside.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't look like they're taking a hit to their, I don't want to say that, hit to their career, hit to their life, right?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: It it's real.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we're gonna get into sibling dynamics in another upcoming podcast.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: If anyone has siblings, would love to hear what your dynamics were and if how that affected you.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: But that dynamic, I think, does play a real role.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then I I think there's guilt around that too, or at least I speaking for myself, I had a little guilt.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I love my siblings.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: I love you.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: I love my other siblings.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: She's gotta say she loves me.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sitting right next to her.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure she's got some other words to say too.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: I know they have, you know, I know they have competing demands as well.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I know our parents instilled those values.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: Again, I was gonna say it's those values again that we're trying to instill in our kids.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: Our parents tried to instill those values into us that family is everything, siblings are there forever, they're gonna be there for you, you know.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you're looking around going, okay.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: Where are they?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, could you use a hand here?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think there's guilt there too, right?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like uh, you know, I don't want to be upset with them, but I'm feeling a little upset and guilty for feeling upset with with them, knowing that everybody has their own, you know, their own abilities, and some people just aren't able to sometimes face the realities or manage the competing demands.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we will be talking about that.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a really important subject in the sandwich generation and another layer of tension.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: The tension is there in that sandwich layer a hundred percent.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, we will get into that later.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: But uh, Susan, so to tell me who wins in in all of this?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: Who is who's the winner?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I've done a lot of work around black and white thinking, Mary.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say that's black and white thinking.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's a winner and there's a loser here.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, that's my uh that is my philosophy too.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: I I I will confess I've done therapy and they're like, yeah, you're a black and white thinker, you're out to the win everything.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: You can't go through life like that.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there is this is not one of those situations where you can win.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a no, it is truly a no-win situation.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's just a no-win situation.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: This is the gray zone, right?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: This is the mucky middle of that sandwich with like all these condiments on it, and it's just like all mixing together, right?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it's how can I accept that this is the you know, the full you know, it's full.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's very full sandwich of you know uh of guilt, of trying to do the best, of of saying, okay, this is not, I'm not gonna win here.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, maybe winning, maybe it's not winning, but it's just again, I want to come back to maybe an earlier episode where it's giving ourselves grace and acceptance that I'm just doing the best I can right now.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: I I I gotta tell you, you know, looking back, Mary.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I think uh before you move on there, I think it's okay.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: I love my sister.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: No matter what what you choose, right, it it feels like you're always gonna let someone down.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's the sandwich, right?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: That is the sandwich.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: No matter what you choose, I'm gonna say it again.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: You feel like you're gonna let someone down.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, Mary, I have to be honest with you.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: I also felt like there were times where I was letting you down.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think, you know, we've really talked about this, but there were times where, you know, you might have called me on the way home from that infusion, and I felt like I should have gone to that infusion because, well, I didn't know that you had the game, but you know, I felt sad that, you know, you were missing an important thing for you.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, there's there was guilt around that.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: There's definitely again times where I'm like that you were at the hospital and I'm like, I probably she's taking time off of work, probably should be there instead of her.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I agree.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: I did not that think of that, but a hundred percent I can't say that about my other siblings.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I I agree.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: I so it's it's tough.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: That sandwich is real.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: It is, and you know, I think again, uh wherever you are in that sandwich, whether you've your parents are still alive, not a not still alive, there's your parents aren't gonna be here forever, right?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: And kids aren't gonna be be at their their age forever.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh somewhere in all of this guilt, the kid guilt, parent guilt, work guilt, work guilt, sibling guilt, all of them.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't even mention like our friends or spouses or significant mothers' guilt.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Or our self-guilt.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Self-guilt.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: So was there such a thing as self-guilt?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: I I think not taking care of yourself is self-guilt.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: We didn't even taught we didn't even touch on that.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: What was one thing uh that you did for yourself throughout this whole thing, Susan?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that wasn't even in the same this this that wasn't even in my thoughts, what what to do for myself at this point in time.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I heard you tell me every once in a while, you know, you should do something, but I have to say, I I don't think, you know, at this point in time, like I said, it was go, go, go, go, go, and nothing for myself.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then somewhere in all of this, I think I started to kind of wonder who even am I anymore outside of what everyone needs from me.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's kind of where we're going next.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so thanks for listening to the shit sandwich generation.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: If today's episode made you laugh or cry or just feel more seen, uh share it with someone who's in this with you, who's going through a difficult time, who's feeling a lot of guilt.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Subscribe or leave a review and let us know your own sandwich stories.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, remember you're not alone and you're doing better than you think, and you really don't have to eat this shit sandwich.