Latest / Trumponomics / Episode 16: The Fed Finally Raised Interest Rates. Now What?

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Episode 16: The Fed Finally Raised Interest Rates. Now What? · Trumponomics

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: The funny thing is, I think a lot of people
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: are going to see this headline and not really know
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: what it means and why they should care, And I
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: worry that they're going to skip right past it. Don't
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: do that. It's important. This episode is brought to you
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  Speaker 1: for all investors. Hi, and welcome back to Bloomberg Benchmark,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: a podcast about the global economy. You are listening to
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: this on Thursday, December, but we are recording this on
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Wednesday the sixteenth, just hours after the FEDS policy meeting.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: I'm Tory Stiwell, an economics reporter with Bloomberg News in
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: d C. And I'm joined by Akiedo who's in San Francisco,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: and Dan Moss, who was able to join us by
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: surprise from New York. Hey. Dan, for your baby. Our
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: daughter is still inside her mother. She's having a lie.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: You know. Joanna and I thought that our daughter would
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: be a fed baby. But we're both kind of relief.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Joanna works at Bloomberg as well, so it's a good
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: thing that Bob saw us through the day. Well, it
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: has been an exciting day, so I'm kind of surprised
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: you didn't come today. We've had lots of other stuff going.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Still six hours left. Basically, the thing that we have
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: all been waiting for forever to happen has finally happened. Yeah,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: let's take a listen to this clip of Federal Reserve
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Chair Janet Yellen just a few hours ago. Earlier today,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: the Federal Open Mark Committee decided to raise the target
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: range for the federal funds rate by one quarter percentage point,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: bringing it to one quarter to one half percent. This
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: action marks the end of an extraordinary seven year period
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: during which the federal funds rate was held near zero
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  Speaker 1: to support the recovery of the economy from the worst
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  Speaker 1: financial crisis in recession since the Great Depression. It also
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: recognizes the considerable progress that has been made towards restoring jobs,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: raising incomes, and easing the economic hardship of millions of America.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: So it finally happened. The Federal Reserved raised its benchmark
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: interest rate. It had been near zero for seven years,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: and it had been a decade since the last increase.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Officials took a small step. They increased their target rate
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: by just a quarter of a point. But what a
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  Speaker 1: quarter of a point? Right, And by the time our
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: listeners hear this episode, this news is going to be
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  Speaker 1: on the front page of many, many newspapers around the
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: country and even around the world. It's maybe even the
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: biggest story in global finance this year. But the funny
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: thing is, I think a lot of people are going
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: to see this headline and not really know what it
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: means and why they should care, And I worry that
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: they're going to skip right past it. Don't do that.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: It's important. So our mission this week is to tell
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: you what this news means and why you should care,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: even if you're not a trader on Wall Street. We're
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: going to walk you through the FET's decision with a
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  Speaker 1: little bit of background, and then talk to you about
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  Speaker 1: what it means for three different players in the U.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: S economy, the consumer, businesses, and the government, where the
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: FEDS easy money policies have led to more than a
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  Speaker 1: little consternation on both sides of the aisle. And since
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: we're a podcast about the global economy, we'll finish by
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: talking about how this will of other nations as well
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: as how they may in turn affect the FED. That's
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  Speaker 1: a big mission for twenty minutes, which is less than
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  Speaker 1: half the time Chair yell And spent addressing the press
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  Speaker 1: this afternoon. So we're bringing in reinforcements. Michelle my deputy
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  Speaker 1: head of US Economics at Bank of America Mery Lynch
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  Speaker 1: to New York is joining us. Michelle, thank you, What
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: a day you must have had. It was quite the day,
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  Speaker 1: but it was a fun day. We finally got to
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  Speaker 1: see a reed hike and a little action in terms
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  Speaker 1: of policy. Yeah, on a scale of Windleton, how relieved
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  Speaker 1: are you that this first hike is finally behind us
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  Speaker 1: and we can all stop hyperventilating about it. I would
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  Speaker 1: say that's a ten today, But next week I might
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: have a different answer if we start to see some
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: nerves and uncertainty and confusion around what the path of
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  Speaker 1: the hiking cycle might look like, and one the second
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  Speaker 1: hike might be all right. Well, before we get too
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  Speaker 1: far in, let's start with the very basics here. So
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  Speaker 1: the FED raised it's benchmark interest rate, the Federal funds rate,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: and it's the interest rate that banks charge each other
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: when they borrow from each other overnight every single day.
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  Speaker 1: To stay compliant with federal regulations, every bank needs a
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: certain amount of cash on hand. And let's say I'm
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: a bank and tory your bank, and let's say on
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: this particular day, my bank needs a million dollars more.
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  Speaker 1: So I'll go to you and ask if I could
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  Speaker 1: borrow from you just overnight. It's a super super short
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: term loan, and we'll agree on an interest rate together,
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  Speaker 1: and I'll pay you back that one million dollars plus
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: that interest that we agreed on the following day. So, uh,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: the FED doesn't directly control this interest rate, but instead
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  Speaker 1: it sets a goal and then it kind of um
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  Speaker 1: pokes and prods the markets until they get the actual
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  Speaker 1: federal funds rate to the level that they wanted to be.
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  Speaker 1: So until today, as a Wednesday, it was between zero
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: and zero point to five. Starting tomorrow Thursday, it's going
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  Speaker 1: to be a range between zero point to five and
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  Speaker 1: zero point five. Now, on the face of a dozen't
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  Speaker 1: sound like very much, but we're talking about the end
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  Speaker 1: of an era here. Just those twenty five basis points
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  Speaker 1: is something for the history books. Michelle, right, it is
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  Speaker 1: because we're coming off of the zero bound, and we're
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  Speaker 1: coming off of a period of unprecedented easy policy. The
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  Speaker 1: twenty five basis points is still historically a very low
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: interest rate. It's still an accommodative stance of montary policy,
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  Speaker 1: but it is relative to the past few years where
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  Speaker 1: we were at the zero bound. Why did the FED
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  Speaker 1: decide that now was the right time for a hike?
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  Speaker 1: You know, it has taken such a long time. We've
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  Speaker 1: been near zero since two thousand and eight. Why now, Well,
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  Speaker 1: you have to consider that the FED has what's called
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: the dual mandate. They want to achieve full employment, which
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  Speaker 1: is measured by the unemployment rate coming in around five
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  Speaker 1: percent or so, and they also need to achieve price stability,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: which means reaching their target of two percent. So they're
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  Speaker 1: very closed on the first part of their mandate in
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  Speaker 1: uh generating stronger job growth and bringing the unemployment rate lower,
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  Speaker 1: but they're not quite yet at the infloyation target of
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: two with core pc inflation currently running about one point. However,
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  Speaker 1: said is supposed to be forward looking. Monetary policy works
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: with long lags. On a forward looking basis, if the
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: economy is continued to grow an environment where we're close
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  Speaker 1: to full employment, we should be seeing price pressures build
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  Speaker 1: in a medium term, which would justify higher interest rates.
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  Speaker 1: So our Washington newsroom is quite the creative group of people,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: and our editor Katerina baked these um cupcakes from scratch
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  Speaker 1: and arrange them in the shape of a space shuttle
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  Speaker 1: taking off to signify lift off, and they were pretty great. Um.
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  Speaker 1: And you know, Michelle and wondering is it right to
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  Speaker 1: think of this as a celebratory occasion that the FED
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  Speaker 1: has so much confidence in economic recovery that it can
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  Speaker 1: now finally do this thing it couldn't do for years.
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  Speaker 1: That's quite a creative thing to do. Unfortunately, we didn't
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  Speaker 1: have those cupcakes on the trading floor. How long would
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: I have lost it? It's a good point, UM, So
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  Speaker 1: I think lift off is probably in an extreme terminology
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  Speaker 1: because the FED is going very very slow. Um. Lift
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  Speaker 1: off would imply that it's a dramatic adjustment in in policy,
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  Speaker 1: and I think the FED worked very hard to suggest otherwise, Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: a little detail on those cupcakes. They actually featured like
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  Speaker 1: turtles on the cupcakes, really like jet packs because it
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  Speaker 1: was like a gradual list off. Brilliant. That completely changed it.
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  Speaker 1: In my opinion, that the right assessment, which is we
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  Speaker 1: are lifting off this earbound but we're going very very slowly.
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  Speaker 1: Um to your point about what is it signal regarding
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  Speaker 1: the economy, I think it is true that its signals
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  Speaker 1: that they FED has become more convinced about the sustainability
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  Speaker 1: of their recovery. They believe that the economy has made
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  Speaker 1: significant improvement and should be on a further upward trend,
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  Speaker 1: and as a results, interest rates no longer need to
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  Speaker 1: be at this emergency policy level. When the era of
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  Speaker 1: modern central banking began, and if you want to take
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: as a reference point, we could say the period when
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  Speaker 1: the FED began announcing its changes and putting out written
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: text to accompany it, the early nineties saw a series
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  Speaker 1: of aggressive interest rate moves, and then at the start
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  Speaker 1: of the two thousands there were moves that were less aggressive,
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  Speaker 1: but compared with what people anticipate now, they were pretty aggressive.
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  Speaker 1: So why the ghost slow now if they're so confident
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  Speaker 1: you're right. And that's an extremely important in point, which
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  Speaker 1: is that not only is the cycle different because we're
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  Speaker 1: at the zero bound and we haven't been in the past,
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  Speaker 1: it's different because the FET is saying they are going
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  Speaker 1: extremely slow relatives to prior cycles. So what's the concern?
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  Speaker 1: I think one of the concerns is that, um, there's
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  Speaker 1: not symmetric risks around policy. And what I mean by
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  Speaker 1: that is if the set is wrong and economy and
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: is flowing, there's not that much room to cut from here. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: what can they actually do if that happens? I mean,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: you have two options. One is to further expand the balance,
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  Speaker 1: to engage in more quantitative easing, buying treasuries, buying mortgage
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  Speaker 1: backed securities. The other option, as other SYR banks have done,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: is to bring interest rates negative, which they seem very
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  Speaker 1: hesitant to do. So neither of those options are desirable clearly,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: and and and the FET is very hopeful that they
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: won't have to consider that any time in the future. So,
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: if you have asymmetric risks and you're much more worried
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: about being wrong and have gone too fast and being
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: wrong by having gone too slow, you're gonna air on
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: the side of being cautious. Well, this is all awesome
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: background to be armed with as we enter the second
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: half of our show, which is breaking down how all
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: this jargon, a lot of a jargon that we just
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: talked about matters for different players in the U S
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: economies and making this a little more bite size, we're
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  Speaker 1: So let's turn to how this is going to impact
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: the various players in our economy, starting with the consumer,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: which after all, accounts for about seventy of gross domestic product. Michelle,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: that's steal your estimate. That's right. Consumer spending is about
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: seventy of Gdpezza, pretty you're looking at the share of
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: the economy is a prey slow moving adjustment. Okay, so
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: we're really into the guts of it. Then, how does
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: targeting this one fairly obscure rate that banks used to
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: lend to each other overnight effect what I and our
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: listeners do day to day? Some important question. It doesn't
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: directly influence borring costs, are not immediately I should say, Um,
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  Speaker 1: it only influences a consumer household borring costs if the
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: short term rate that the FET is increasing actually translates
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: to higher rates across the curve and influences these longer
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: term rates that consumers are going to be much more
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: sensitive to. And what we saw today after the set
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: hike is let's call flattening out of the curve. Where
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: you did see some pick up in short term interest rates,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: the long end didn't really move very much. Um. And
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: that's a risk going forward, is that even as a hikes,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: they don't do very much in terms of of adjusting
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: UM barring costs for for the average consumer, Does this
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: mean that touring and tuck when they want to buy
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: their first home and settle down automatically now have to
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: pay fifty basis points more. It doesn't good news tour
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: you can um No, it doesn't necessarily mean that, you know,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: you do want to assume that in the environment where
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: the feed is hiking interest rates, there is a risk
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: that your barring costs will head higher in the medium
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: term because if that is tightening policy, but it's not
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: necessarily a one for one or or and the timing
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: is not necessarily clear either. Um So I think you
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: know our view from from our from our strategists on
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: interest rates, um, we expect only a thirty basis point
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: increase in ten year Treasury rates over the course of
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: next year. And that's a pretty good proxy for what
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: you might see for mortgage rates as well. So you're
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: saying mortgage rates aren't going to go up that much
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: because I know over at the National Association of Realtors UH,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: the chief economists over there sees the thirty year mortgage
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: rate going up to like four and a half. I
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: think by the end of next year. There's a lot
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: of uncertain answer and and and obviously it's possible at
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: the long end of the curvent that moving ending more,
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: especially if we have inflation UM. But our review is
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: that it's going to be a slow cycle and it's
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: going to be a slow adjustment in in in law
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: long data treasuries, which means UM mostly something similar in
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: mortgage rates. But you bring up a really good point,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: which is that there are there a number of consumer
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: products that are tied to library or short term rates,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: one of which is for mortgages. If you have an
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: adjustable rate, mortgage library will be heading higher and that
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: could influence how your mortgage rate resets UM. Similarly, certain
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: corporate loans are going to be much more short term UM,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: and that that could be that could be heading higher. Right.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: You know, Michelle, I used to be a Federal Reserve
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: reporter until about a year ago, and my job was
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: to travel to all these different parts of the country
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: and cover these speeches that Federal Reserve officials gave. And
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: after basically every single speech, at least one person would
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: raise their hand and be like, you know, I'm a
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: senior citizen, I'm or you know, my mother is a
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: senior citizen or something, and you having zero interest rates
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: is really messing with my retirement. So is life gonna
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: get better for them? Presumably it will depending on how
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: they're invested. Um. So there's a few thoughts around that wanted.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: The signaling that goes along with a hiking cycle, the
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: set is hiking in the variament with the economy is improving,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: which means that for overall, for for all types of
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: of investors or players in the economy, their financial situations
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: should be improving if they have exposure to financial asthics
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: and and and and income creation. Um. The second factor
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: is if you're a more risk averse investor and you're
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: sitting in cash or in short term savings accounts, um,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: your interest rate will be modestly higher. But a lot
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: of people do have a greater diversification. They're gonna have
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: exposure to what's happening in equities or or credit markets,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: and and they're it's not entirely clear what happens when
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: the FETs start taking and trust rates. Well, let's turn
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: to uh, let's turn to businesses now. UM, we already
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: touched on them briefly. When we're talking about these corporate loans,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: but interest rates matter for them because they borrow money
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: to buy capital things like equipment, heavy machinery, all that
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff that helped them make the goods and
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: services that they do. But it's the interest rate that
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: they have to pay goes up by even a little bit,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: will will that kind of derail corporate investment. It's been
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: picking up lately, but I think the theme throughout the
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: recovery is that it hasn't been quite what people would
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: like to see. CAT has been a great overall disappointing UM,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: given how cheap boring costs have been and and UM
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: and and presently the opportunities for expansion a number of industries,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: and now that barring costs are heading higher, I think
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: there is a key question or concern as to how
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: that will influence UM future investment and and and companies
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: and businesses UM. But I'm not sure how interest rate
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: sensitive it is. Obviously, what interest rates things as low
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: as it was for most of recovery, you didn't see
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: this big pick up in in in borrowing and investments.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: And if you look at large company their balance sheet
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: is is actually pretty cash heavy, so presumably they still
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: have plenty of capacity to invest if they see economic
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: conditions that weren't that great. And let's turn to the
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: third stakeholder with government. Um So. In a previous episode,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: we talked about the very now, very big dep burden
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: that the US government shoulders um and we talked about
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: how it was fine for now because interest rates were
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: so low. But do you think this is gonna become
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: a more worrying thing as interest rates start to go up?
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: I think it really depends on how quickly interest rates rise.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: Remember that the set is saying it's going to be slow,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: some more shallow cycle. We don't bring interest rates as
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: high as we had in prior cycles. Um So, real
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: that the history bar and cost should still be pretty
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: cheap for for for the government. We've we've also had
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: a little bit of political back and forth about this.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: You know, some people saying that interest rates have been
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: too long, too low for too long, excuse me, and
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: the Fed is kind of playing with fire here, and
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: then also those that say that by hiking the Fed,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: you know, it is hurting working class Americans. Um is
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: this move gonna Is this Fed move gonna influence that debate?
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: It all gonna turn it up a little bit in mind.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, I really think that it depends on how
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: the FED communicates when the next move is and what
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: the path is right now, selling extremely cautious, um, noting
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: that they want to keep support for the economy. Um,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: they're not looking too cool and overhead economy or fight inflation. Um.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: So you know, twenty five basis points by itself really
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: shouldn't change the equation right much for most people in
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: the economy. I think the question is how quickly will
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: the FED actually engineer hiking cycle. And my expectation is
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: that they're going to be very cautious and and and
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: very careful and how they do that. We're going to
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: wrap up here in a second in the show. We'll
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: let you go. Um, but let's zoom out here for
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: a little bit. Our financial markets around the world are,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: in this modern nation, so interconnected, but not every central
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: bank is raising interest rates right now. You know, you
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: have the European Central Bank just lowering its deposit rate
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: to mind is zero point three percent. There's renewed pressure
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: on the Bank of Japan to expand its own bomb
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: purchasing program. Um. So the FETT is going one way
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: and you have a very big chunk of the rest
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: of the world running a different direction. You certainly do UM,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: which I think creates a bit more discomfort with what
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: the FET is trying to engineer, because if the FET
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: is hiking while other central banks and our major trading
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: partners are easing, it means that you're going to have
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: a further appreciation in the US dollar UM and that's
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: another form of tightening in terms of financial conditions. So
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: it does mean that the FATS policy, even though they're
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: saying it's very slow, it's gradual, it's a careful policy.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: There are these other consequences that come from a faster
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: appreciation of the dollar um and I think if it
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: has to account for that, right, So there's really a
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: lot in stake here. Yeah, an institution holds this much
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: power over basically the fate of the world, and you
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: could probably make the argument that the FIT has more
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: control or the economy than the president or Congress, And
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: you know, it's just a it's just people sitting in
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: a room every six weeks making this very human decision
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: about interests, right, So it's a it's great to have
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: that perspective. Yeah, I'm glad it's not us making this decision.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's good to have Congress not involved. Agreed. Oh, Michelle,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. It's been really
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: great having you on. It is my pleasure. Have a
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: have a great evening, go and spend some of those
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: debased dollars. Well. Thanks again for listening to Bloomberg Benchmark.
• 21:41
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• 21:44
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• 21:58
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• 22:05
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• 22:09
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