Latest / Left of the Projector / Metropolis (1927)

Transcript

Metropolis (1927) · Left of the Projector

0:00
Track 2: I have like eight tabs open to eight tabs on two different browsers on two different monitors.
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Track 4: It's funny. Cause I always have multiple tabs open and I never use them when
0:11
Track 4: it comes to that discussion. I'm just like dive in and hope for the best unless
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Track 4: I need to find a quote or something. Um, but yeah, no.
0:18
Track 2: I wanted to see if there was like basically a list of the intertitles.
0:26
Track 2: like where you didn't have to like you know like just basically literally just
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Track 2: all the intertitles like caught you know and like separated out.
0:35
Track 4: Oh i could have screenshot those for you i can too but you know yeah i wanted it to be.
0:43
Track 2: I wanted to be lazy and just have them provided to me.
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Track 4: Yeah oh there i did.
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Track 1: Find one i did find one.
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Track 4: In my screenshots i've got one two three four five six seven eight i've got
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Track 4: eight of them i don't know how many there are i just found the whole thing and it has.
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Track 1: Them both in german and then the english.
1:00
Track 4: Translation i.
1:02
Track 1: I just i put it in the chat of the of this app and it has the it looks like it has them based on the.
1:09
Track 4: Real if i would have done it i would have had them visually just screenshotted
1:12
Track 4: but you know that's because i'm yeah me too yeah a visual person that's that's a.
1:17
Track 2: That's a valid criticism of this website oh the.
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Track 4: Pictures But we're very grateful.
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Track 1: The pictures, too, is what you're saying.
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Track 4: Dear website.
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Track 1: It would be nice if it was actually the screenshot. I'm sure that someone has that.
1:25
Track 4: Yeah, so I had eight out of, what was it, 30-something?
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Track 1: It says over 100, but some of them are...
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Track 4: Yeah, so eight out of 100.
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Track 1: But some of them are just, you know, Maria. Like, there's no additional,
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Track 1: you know, context or something later in the film, I guess, when it says that.
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Track 4: I love the fact it's got it in German as well, just in case.
2:00
Track 2: Hello, and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Bill,
2:03
Track 2: back again with another film discussion of the left.
2:05
Track 2: If you'd like to support the show for as little as $3 a month,
2:08
Track 2: you can go to Patreon.com forward slash Left of the Projector Pod.
2:11
Track 2: If you'd like to dress the style, we've got shirts, and at lefttheprojectorpod.rentice.com,
2:17
Track 2: I'll show everyone you've got the best taste of it.
2:19
Track 2: Wherever you're listening, give us your rating and subscribe so you'll get notified
2:22
Track 2: of our weekly episodes that drop every Tuesday. We have lots of fun.
2:27
Track 2: This week on Left of the Projector, we will be silently discussing on the second
2:32
Track 2: silent film we've covered on the show.
2:36
Track 2: No, just kidding. We will be talking about the 1927 Fritz Lang film, Metropolis.
2:42
Track 2: You may have heard about it, especially this year, 2026, as the film was meant to take place this year.
2:48
Track 2: There is lots of lore and history surrounding Metropolis, and we probably won't even make a dent in it.
2:53
Track 2: We will, however, try and parse out themes and concepts from a leftist perspective, as always.
2:57
Track 2: Our guest this week is Aisha, the host of the podcast, every single sci-fi film ever.
3:03
Track 2: The podcast was the winner of the 2025 Yearworthy Award for Best Movie Podcast.
3:08
Track 2: Welcome to the show, Aisha. And of course, I'm joined by my co-hosts, Ward and Evan.
3:13
Track 4: Thank you. Hello, everyone.
3:14
Track 1: Hello. Thank you for being on the show.
3:16
Track 3: It's glad to have you.
3:18
Track 4: Thank you so much for having me.
3:18
Track 1: Yes. And I mean, before we jump in, we did share the name of your podcast,
3:22
Track 1: but do you want to tell people what you do over there?
3:26
Track 4: So I've been a producer for over two decades and I had a really rough couple
3:31
Track 4: of weeks and I decided I wanted to think about what podcast would I start if
3:34
Track 4: I could start any podcast in the world.
3:36
Track 4: And literally the words every single sci-fi film ever came to mind. So I've started in 1902.
3:42
Track 4: I'm going forward chronologically and we talk about the cultural history and
3:47
Track 4: the context as well as the filmmaking and all the other stuff.
3:50
Track 4: I'm not doing every single sci-fi film ever because that's almost impossible.
3:55
Track 4: So there is an asterisk after that title, which leads to another asterisk that says almost.
4:02
Track 1: Perfect. Yes. That would be a Herculean effort to do every single sci-fi film.
4:06
Track 3: No, absolutely.
4:08
Track 4: It's pretty rough without it anyway, but yes.
4:11
Track 1: Awesome. Well, I think when we were discussing what film to do,
4:15
Track 1: so normally what would happen is I usually send a list of films to the guest,
4:21
Track 1: and they sort of pick a couple, and then we narrow it down to one.
4:23
Track 1: Whereas in this one, I think we were having trouble, and I think maybe I pitched
4:27
Track 1: to you doing Metropolis.
4:29
Track 1: So I'm wondering maybe your history with the film. I know you've talked about
4:34
Track 1: it other places too, but I guess kind of what it means to you to do this film, such an important...
4:39
Track 4: So I...
4:41
Track 4: bought a magazine in the early to mid 2000s, which had a free copy of Metropolis.
4:46
Track 4: And I've always known it's a film that I wanted to watch, but I literally never
4:50
Track 4: got around to watching it. I had the DVD.
4:52
Track 4: It wasn't the full version that they discovered later in the 2000s,
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Track 4: but I only got around to watching it.
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Track 4: And it's also one of the reasons I started my podcast. I never get time to watch
5:01
Track 4: the films I wanted to watch.
5:03
Track 4: When I was doing the research for my podcast, which was about two,
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Track 4: two and a half years ago, I would have watched it then.
5:08
Track 4: it really blew my mind away because there was an element where I thought well
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Track 4: it's an old film it's going to be you know it's going to be slightly like rickety
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Track 4: it's not going to be amazing but from the first scene from the credits everything
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Track 4: starts rolling it's just,
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Track 4: such a visual delight and so like
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Track 4: compared to other silent films that I've seen it's so
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Track 4: so very advanced like visually and yeah
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Track 4: it's a phenomenal film and then learning about the whole like weimar
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Track 4: republic and and germany after you know post-world war one all that kind of
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Track 4: stuff it's such a fascinating period in time um and then and then fritz lang
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Track 4: who went on to do m which is another phenomenal silent film um and also that
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Track 4: he might have murdered his first wife so yeah yeah.
5:51
Track 2: With the help of his.
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Track 4: Soon-to-be second wife who wrote metropolis that's.
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Track 1: Partly why i thought like mentioning it in the intro that there is so much about this film.
6:01
Track 1: You could spend... You could have a podcast on this movie. Literally, I think.
6:06
Track 1: There probably is one on this podcast, or on this film.
6:10
Track 1: But yeah, I think it's... I also hadn't... Well, maybe we all can say sort of when we...
6:16
Track 1: discovered this film i had seen this sometime
6:19
Track 1: in college but as i was watching it last week and
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Track 1: then i kind of re-watched some of it last night is i had no memory of any of
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Track 1: it it was like watching it for the first time and i was just kind of blown away
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Track 1: by the technical aspects and yeah i just uh we'll get into it too but i'm wondering
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Track 1: you two bill and ward what are your uh history with it this.
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Track 3: Is my first time watching it uh i've known about it for years but i was always
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Track 3: like yeah i'm not gonna watch that i was like similar similarly i was like it's
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Track 3: gonna be rickety it's a silent movie like it's not gonna be that great boy was
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Track 3: i surprised that shit's awesome.
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Track 2: That is very well done yeah it's it's very
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Track 2: impressive um i saw this the first time i saw this
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Track 2: was uh many many many years
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Track 2: ago uh when i was in college uh when i
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Track 2: took a class on weimar germany uh so
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Track 2: i actually watched this and fritz lang's m
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Track 2: uh for that class uh and i kind of
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Track 2: fell in love with this movie i have seen this multiple times
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Track 2: since then and the copy i watched is
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Track 2: actually uh was the uh release
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Track 2: after they found it was released on like blu-ray after they found everything
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Track 2: and they they recreated it uh was a gift to me from my in-laws for like a birthday
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Track 2: or christmas or something i don't remember um but that's like the copy i have
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Track 2: is like right after they found it and they put it out i'm like you know um,
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Track 2: Yeah. So yeah, this is, as a sci-fi person, this movie has been,
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Track 2: it's been a, it's been a fixture in my life for a long time.
7:56
Track 4: I remember when I, when I covered it on the podcast, I kept asking the academic
8:00
Track 4: and I was like, but is this the most influential sci-fi film ever?
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Track 4: And because he's an academic, he wouldn't answer the question.
8:04
Track 4: And I was like, surely you have to just say yes at this point.
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Track 2: It is like, there's no, to quibble on that seems to be, I mean,
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Track 2: it's, it's literally, it's, it's it's it's pure pedantry to like not acknowledge that i mean.
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Track 4: I suppose yeah the thing is when whenever i talk to academics they're so kind
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Track 4: of like i suppose scientific or very kind of like fact like what what would
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Track 4: be the criteria of that kind of thing um whereas i enthusiastically i'm like
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Track 4: yes it is it really is it's.
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Track 2: Like say it's like asking is the big bang one of the most influential moments.
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Track 4: Of the development of time.
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Track 2: In the universe. It's like, yeah, that's when it started. That's when time started.
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Track 2: So yeah, we're going to go with yes.
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Track 1: And as I was watching it, there were several times where I messaged both Bill
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Track 1: and Ward and our separate group chat about, oh, this reminds me of this show,
9:00
Track 1: Andor, that was just out.
9:01
Track 1: And I can't even count the number of times as I was watching it.
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Track 1: Oh, I remember this kind of moment or this kind of theme in a different film
9:09
Track 1: or a different show or a different thing.
9:11
Track 1: And even if it's not directly, you know, copying, obviously,
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Track 1: wouldn't be the right word, but the influence just stamped over so much that
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Track 1: it's hard to even quantify.
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Track 4: Yeah, I think the biggest thing I can...
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Track 4: probably i don't know again this would be quantifying but with blade runner
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Track 4: there's there's a threads user called um gark the gray uh who did a side by
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Track 4: side of like multiple shots across both of the films and it's just it's so stunning
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Track 4: how how much inspiration it just caused that one film yeah.
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Track 1: I haven't seen that but that sounds very interesting like to watch.
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Track 4: I will find it and send it to you yeah.
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Track 1: Well maybe since there's so much to to talk about this film the thing that Maybe,
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Track 1: Bill, you also know about it from your class you took, and maybe Aisha,
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Track 1: since you've covered it and know maybe probably more of the history than I do,
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Track 1: I was looking into sort of Fritz Lang and the creation of the film,
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Track 1: and this comes up to maybe a post that I had made on threads that you commented
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Track 1: on, Aisha, and what do we think—let me think of the way I want to say it.
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Track 1: So, do you view this film as a sort of reactionary, conservative, tinted film?
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Track 1: And if so, do you think that Fritz Lang understood that's what he was doing when he made it?
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Track 4: Bill, you want to go first on that?
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Track 1: It's a big question.
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Track 2: No, Aisha, I'd like you to go first. You are our guest, after all.
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Track 4: Thank you. So, I don't think Lang really cared of the politics of the film.
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Track 4: I think when you watch this film, and that's the thing, like the message of
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Track 4: this film, I find really trite and ridiculously silly.
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Track 4: The whole thing about the mediator between the brain and the hand must be the
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Track 4: heart. Like it's such a, it's such a non, such a non thing.
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Track 4: I don't, I don't understand what, well, I do understand what they're trying
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Track 4: to say, but I think it's ridiculous.
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Track 4: And so I don't think he cares about that because when you're watching the film, that,
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Track 4: isn't what you're concentrating on. You're concentrating on a spectacle of such
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Track 4: magnitude that that's what takes over. And I think that's what Lange cared about.
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Track 4: He cared about making this phenomenal film. He treated Bridget Helm terribly.
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Track 4: There's multiple accounts of him not being a very nice person,
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Track 4: but he made a phenomenal film.
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Track 4: And I think the Politics of the film probably comes from his wife, Thea von Braun.
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Track 4: Sorry, Thea von Harbaugh. I've done way too much Cold War stuff. Thea von Harbaugh.
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Track 4: So not a great indicator generally of what your politics might be.
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Track 4: And this is made during the Weimar period, which, Bill, you've studied as well.
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Track 4: I'm sure far more than I, because I just do a few weeks of research for each topic.
12:01
Track 4: but that's such a fascinating
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Track 4: and like vibrant time of
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Track 4: you know various political parties all jousting for power and this huge artistic
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Track 4: movement and you've got german expressionism and there's so much exciting thing
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Track 4: like things happening in germany and then you have this like fantastic phenomenal
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Track 4: film who does which does have like german expressionist like roots,
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Track 4: but that has this kind of theme which is quite kind of like it doesn't have
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Track 4: a theme that would reflect that. It's quite a conservative theme.
12:36
Track 2: So I think...
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Track 2: I think when you look at it, I think this movie is really fascinating in terms of like its message.
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Track 2: Because when it was made and the overwhelming influence, like if we look at
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Track 2: it contextually within the time, like the overwhelming influence of who was
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Track 2: coming into power and who was gaining cultural influence at the time.
13:02
Track 2: And yet we look at a lot of the very subtle notes. And this is, this is the key to me.
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Track 2: This is the one thing that always comes back to me because like last night,
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Track 2: you know, like we were talking about it, like, you know, in our chat.
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Track 2: And then my wife and I were talking about it and like, and I do think there's
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Track 2: one key element in the entire thing that.
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Track 2: Displays even if lang is not conscious of
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Track 2: it or intentional um but
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Track 2: it shows some um unconscious or subconscious
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Track 2: like thought processes on these things that yes
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Track 2: this argument that you know you need the heart the mediator between
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Track 2: the head and the hands whatever that shit right but there's one
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Track 2: key moment that really belies
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Track 2: what i think the truth of the
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Track 2: message is or not what the truth the message how it
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Track 2: could be taken but that um freighter the.
14:02
Track 2: City leader who first of all is multiple
14:06
Track 2: times given nazi phraseology
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Track 2: to say like deliberately he is given that
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Track 2: point his his dialogue is
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Track 2: specifically nazi like
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Track 2: it is taken direct from nazi like propaganda
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Track 2: and nazi you know dialogue to the point where
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Track 2: joseph goebbels was like this should
14:30
Track 2: not be aired because this shows
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Track 2: nazis in a bad light and also
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Track 2: shows the power of large groups of people standing against
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Track 2: a smaller group of people but one
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Track 2: of the key elements i think that really well like
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Track 2: i said whether it's subconscious or unconscious whether it
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Track 2: was intentional is that freighter specifically says
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Track 2: it was his goal to make them commit violence so he had the cause and justification
15:01
Track 2: of using violence against the working class like that to me is the the arc stone of his his,
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Track 2: of his character and the story overall but also the subtext of the film again
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Track 2: whether it was intentional or not i don't know but you can't help it you know
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Track 2: the light shines through sometimes that's.
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Track 4: What i'm saying yeah i think it's interesting actually because and it's
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Track 4: freder's son so it's really confusing so it's freder who is the son and then
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Track 4: this freder joe freder's son who is the dad so just yeah i was yeah i'm sorry
15:38
Track 4: freder's it's it's it's really silly they could have just not messed around
15:43
Track 4: like so the son's name is freder frederson but anyway yeah.
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Track 2: They could have just done it the way that's always done which is the son is the one that says.
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Track 4: Has the.
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Track 2: Son in the name but yeah.
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Track 4: We took i took the meeting correctly go ahead but um yeah so i think that's
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Track 4: really interesting because i think when i'm watching it i'm with the people
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Track 4: so i'm like oh this is really this isn't like a bad message but if i put myself
16:03
Track 4: into the penthouse you're right it's it's an anti anti um elite kind of message
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Track 4: if you're if you're looking at it from that perspective i.
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Track 1: Mean that's exactly i think it was at that exact line is when i messaged them
16:15
Track 1: to say this is for those who have seen and or this is maybe a mild spoiler of
16:20
Track 1: the show so you can forward ahead 30 seconds if you don't want to hear it but in but.
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Track 4: In the show.
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Track 1: Have you watched it oh yeah and watch it yeah okay i thought yeah okay.
16:29
Track 4: Oh god yes oh god i try and get people who hate science fiction and hate star
16:34
Track 4: wars to watch that show it's a phenomenal show in fact just pause this go and
16:38
Track 4: watch all of Andorra and come back.
16:39
Track 1: Yes, and then you can look...
16:40
Track 2: And no other Star Wars. You don't have.
16:42
Track 4: To watch any other Star Wars. Just remember the names of the planets.
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Track 4: That's really useful and you don't need any other knowledge.
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Track 1: And you also can listen to our eight-part series on the show. Anyway...
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Track 1: The way that they created a propaganda campaign on Gorman to make them rebel
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Track 1: against them so they could use the force against them.
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Track 1: I mean, it's a story as old as time, but it's so clear that that is the,
17:08
Track 1: you know, and again, the empire is stand-ins for, you know, U.S.
17:11
Track 1: or Nazis or fascism or whatever it want to be.
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Track 1: So it just, that's again where I go back to how influential this film is.
17:19
Track 4: Yeah, I suppose I just, I find the solution or the conclusion.
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Track 4: Like, this guy is a Nazi and he's
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Track 4: trying to kill you. And let's try and negotiate with him. Yeah, I get it.
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Track 2: A hundred percent?
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Track 4: Yeah.
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Track 2: Again, I feel like if you just keep in mind that one moment,
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Track 2: if you just keep in mind that one moment, in the end, the message could be taken
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Track 2: as, you shouldn't trust these fuckers.
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Track 2: You should not trust them. In the end, it's like, Groot is going up to shake
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Track 2: his hand, and Freighter and Freighters are standing there.
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Track 2: And it's like, yeah, on the surface level, it's like, oh, it's very liberal.
18:03
Track 2: It's very liberal. It's very reformist. Yeah.
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Track 2: But if you just keep that one point in your head, that message is,
18:13
Track 2: oh, you should not trust these people.
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Track 2: You should not shake their hands. You should go all the way.
18:20
Track 3: Yeah yeah but instead it shoves the uh the mediator out at you again being like
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Track 3: no no it's just just a difference of opinion you know you guys are having a
18:30
Track 3: communications issue you just need a mediator and you can solve all your problems
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Track 3: it's like no i can't trust that guy okay.
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Track 4: So i might have tried to kill you and your whole family and all your children but let's negotiate.
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Track 2: Which also is
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Track 2: further complicated by the fact that what was
18:48
Track 2: done was done not at the not at the
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Track 2: behest of fredersen but at rotvang which i find a fascinating uh division because
18:59
Track 2: in my eye looking at it in today's context especially you know like we have
19:05
Track 2: seen a rise of fascism, you know,
19:10
Track 2: a rise of fascism because it never went away in,
19:13
Track 2: you know, throughout the West.
19:14
Track 2: And one of the primary drivers of some of the most, you know,
19:20
Track 2: like breakneck paces of it, especially within the U.S., has been the,
19:27
Track 2: the conflict between two factions of the capitalist elite. We had the industry
19:33
Track 2: and finance versus the tech bros.
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Track 4: And to me- Is Amy saying Rotwang is a tech bro? Because I'm going to love that.
19:40
Track 2: I do. I think Rotwang is a tech bro.
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Track 4: I think Rot- I love that.
19:44
Track 2: Because historically, the tech capitalists, if we look throughout history,
19:51
Track 2: tech capitalists have always almost been treated as like second-class capitalists
19:56
Track 2: Because they're like, they're always the new money.
19:59
Track 2: They're always new money. And new money is always looked down upon by old money,
20:03
Track 2: even amongst like the capitalist class.
20:06
Track 2: And it's like, in a lot of ways, Rodefong really, it's like,
20:10
Track 2: he's like, I want my credit. I want the power.
20:14
Track 2: Look at what this cap, like the old school industry finance capitalist has.
20:20
Track 2: I want that, or I want the recognition, and I'm going to use this against,
20:25
Track 2: you know, I'm going to use my ability to create technology, which in the end
20:30
Track 2: is what originally drove his...
20:35
Track 2: industry because in the end in a
20:38
Track 2: lot of ways like tech pro capitalists
20:41
Track 2: were working class at one point like it's rooted tech tech is rooted in working
20:49
Track 2: class in working class in creation and production and then it is eventually
20:56
Track 2: co-opted by and then they they get you know it goes petit bourgeois and then
20:59
Track 2: it becomes bourgeois and that's where we are now.
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Track 4: I think it's also interesting because he has no social skills and.
21:05
Track 2: He's quite creepy.
21:07
Track 4: And so it does kind of, it maps.
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Track 2: He's Elon Musk, definitely. Like a hundred percent.
21:12
Track 1: That goes back to what I was looking into with, I mean, you mentioned at the
21:16
Track 1: top about how Fritz Lang was approached by Goebbels to sort of join the Nazis
21:23
Track 1: and led to his sort of emigration to the United States.
21:26
Track 1: But the Nazi idea of technology and like the cult of personality,
21:32
Track 1: But around the idea of technology and making it this otherworldly thing that
21:38
Track 1: they could then create and bestow upon the world kind of fits with what, you know,
21:44
Track 1: the Rotwang's character, in a way.
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Track 1: He sort of had this secret hidden message that the Nazis, I think,
21:52
Track 1: would want to control and harness.
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Track 1: But in this, they couldn't. And maybe that's why Googles wanted to not let people
21:58
Track 1: see this, because that also shows that they don't control everything in the
22:02
Track 1: way they want to. Does that make sense?
22:04
Track 4: Yeah. And also the fact that a lot of those Nazi scientists were kind of like
22:08
Track 4: working in kind of because they had to, right?
22:11
Track 4: In times of war, they had to work in kind of secret in kind of hidden places.
22:15
Track 4: And then they were kind of basically shuttled off to the US and worked largely
22:19
Track 4: in secret there for quite a while. So yeah.
22:22
Track 4: Interesting.
22:23
Track 2: On that secret.
22:24
Track 4: Well, I don't think Operation Clip was made, Paperclip, sorry,
22:28
Track 4: was made public for quite a while after.
22:31
Track 2: No, Operation Paperclip was not made public, but their, in many cases,
22:38
Track 2: their origins were not publicly known, but their contributions and their individual
22:46
Track 2: presences were not, in many cases, kept, you know.
22:50
Track 4: Oh, yeah, no.
22:51
Track 2: Yeah. They weren't hidden away.
22:52
Track 3: Yeah, they're still the same dudes just working at NASA now.
22:56
Track 2: Yeah. Or put in charge of the UN.
23:00
Track 3: Yeah, or NATO.
23:01
Track 2: NATO, I'm sorry, yes.
23:02
Track 1: How do you, just like slightly, maybe not the same topic, but we learn as when
23:09
Track 1: Frederick ends up sort of deciding he wants to see what the working class,
23:14
Track 1: well, first we see him sort of gallivanting in this perfect,
23:17
Track 1: perfect little garden, which is a really funny scene.
23:20
Track 1: you know sort of like the garden of eden or something and
23:22
Track 1: then he's like oh there's this this sort of this woman
23:25
Track 1: and i want to you know find her and he ends up taking the place of
23:28
Track 1: working class person and then going into the depths what do
23:31
Track 1: we my note that i wrote down was that maria was
23:34
Track 1: sort of the view of class consciousness that
23:37
Track 1: she was trying to bestow upon the workers and then it's later maybe co-opted
23:42
Track 1: but then there's also the mediator i don't know what you all think of what like
23:46
Track 1: maria was meant to sort of uh represent or what it represents to you and then
23:50
Track 1: the mediator as this thing that they were referring to but we don't really learn
23:55
Track 1: about until the end i guess i.
23:57
Track 3: Feel maria is still like just holds on to that pretty liberal idea of like she's
24:04
Track 3: very idealized and like oh the workers are upset she's going to be the manifestation
24:10
Track 3: of their um like alienation and frustration but she's going to,
24:17
Track 3: like in controlling interest eyes like oh we're gonna have her be very liberal
24:23
Track 3: where it's like oh we need to just have a communication we need to wait on basically
24:27
Track 3: a savior to make this happen instead of i don't know take action in her own hands.
24:32
Track 4: She is she is such a an image of purity in that kind of very old-fashioned way
24:37
Track 4: for a woman like she comes up with all the children,
24:41
Track 4: um and we have no understanding as to why Fred that like Fredo falls head over
24:46
Track 4: heels in love she's not said a word she's like come up children look at your brothers here um,
24:53
Track 4: It doesn't make any sense. But she is this kind of idealized puritanical, I guess, almost ideal.
25:01
Track 4: I mean, the idea that she's also running this, what is it, like a church in
25:05
Track 4: the catacombs where all these men are just following her.
25:08
Track 4: I'm like, that's probably, you know, like when religion and is she leading the
25:13
Track 4: congregation there? We don't know what's going on.
25:16
Track 4: It's extremely unrealistic. And it's another reason why this film is quite silly,
25:21
Track 4: even though it's amazing.
25:22
Track 2: The the the religion aspect of
25:25
Track 2: it feels very opiate of
25:28
Track 2: the masses um very much
25:31
Track 2: the like kind of like sucker for the people you know
25:34
Track 2: they don't have anything else um they have
25:37
Track 2: this and they are given hope um it
25:41
Track 2: reminds me of i don't know
25:43
Track 2: it actually reminds me of a movie we literally just did an
25:46
Track 2: episode on uh they live by night and
25:49
Track 2: where a character says you know i
25:53
Track 2: ain't gonna give you hope when there ain't any and in
25:56
Track 2: this it's like it's very it's it's
25:59
Track 2: the opposite it's like they're always gonna the people or
26:02
Track 2: the the ideology meant to keep the working class
26:06
Track 2: oppressed is always gonna give them a
26:09
Track 2: glimpse of hope because that's the only thing that
26:12
Track 2: keeps them pacified to the
26:15
Track 2: point where like you know it is explicitly stated i
26:18
Track 2: think when i forget who somebody says i
26:21
Track 2: think it might have been rough on where he says to um
26:25
Track 2: the only thing keeping the workers in check is the promise of the mediator and
26:30
Track 2: that is like something we constantly return to you know it's like the that's
26:34
Track 2: the only thing just give them the hope that there will be something that there
26:39
Track 2: will be changed that they're that we can move forward um.
26:44
Track 2: And I really do think that, like, I think that if you want, it depends,
26:50
Track 2: very much depends on where you come from as a viewer for this film.
26:56
Track 2: If you watch this as a person without any basis in, like, Marxism or,
27:01
Track 2: like, class consciousness, if you come at this from a liberal perspective,
27:05
Track 2: you know, no theory having, you're going to have a wildly different interpretation of it.
27:11
Track 2: A vastly different interpretation. And I struggle to justify Lange not having any of that.
27:23
Track 2: Like, there's no way the Lange at this time made this film without any of those
27:30
Track 2: things in his head just because of the time period.
27:32
Track 2: It's impossible. I just, I find it difficult to believe that none of those,
27:38
Track 2: none of that was subtextually put in there by him, you know, against, you know.
27:46
Track 2: without his knowledge, you know, or, you know, full intention,
27:49
Track 2: but like, you know, I can't imagine it didn't get in there because of the time,
27:54
Track 2: just because of the time. Yeah.
27:55
Track 1: 10 years after the, uh, the Soviet revolution as well.
27:59
Track 2: Yeah. Like this just, I, you have to look at media in the, in the context of the time it was made.
28:06
Track 4: Absolutely. But he didn't write it. And also there's people,
28:09
Track 4: you know, there's people today who, who you'll meet them in,
28:13
Track 4: in all types of places who will be like, I'm just not into politics.
28:16
Track 4: I just, I have no interest in it. And I don't, you know, like,
28:19
Track 4: or, you know, even Andy Weir, lovely guy that he is, it just went on that podcast
28:23
Track 4: and was like, well, I don't like my science fiction being political.
28:28
Track 4: And it's, it's like, well, everything's political. Like you can't divorce those
28:33
Track 4: things, but some people just are like that.
28:35
Track 4: So I don't know if, I don't know if, if that was kind of, um,
28:39
Track 4: actually, I suppose there are some threads in it with M as well.
28:41
Track 2: Isn't there yes so yeah i think i think
28:44
Track 2: you're correct a hundred percent like you will
28:47
Track 2: but i also think that like it is
28:50
Track 2: impossible to divorce yourself that's
28:53
Track 2: why like you cannot remove the author from the material because no matter what
28:59
Track 2: just like you can't remove politics from the author or the world from the other
29:02
Track 2: you are shaped by your outside circumstances whether you even consciously know
29:06
Track 2: it whether you consciously did these things like you've been shaped by it and you will put your,
29:12
Track 2: the impression of those things on the things you make,
29:15
Track 2: whether you know it or not, when you walk in mud,
29:18
Track 2: you leave footprints and you know, we are all the clay that is shaped by the, by the world.
29:24
Track 2: And as we shape things as well, we leave those impressions behind us. It's impossible not to.
29:31
Track 2: And yeah, Andy Weir is amazing.
29:36
Track 2: but there's no like but
29:40
Track 2: he has still been shaped by the world and his films regardless of what he says
29:46
Track 2: still betray certain you know sentiments regardless of what he claims and the
29:53
Track 2: critical drinker is the podcast and that man is a moron what.
29:57
Track 1: What oh i was just gonna say well i mean And you pointed out,
30:00
Track 1: Aisha, that he Fritzlein didn't write the film. It was written by his then wife.
30:05
Track 1: And I had a point there. Oh, well, so, so, yeah.
30:09
Track 1: So that almost makes it even more interesting to me because we learn later that she joins a Nazi party.
30:16
Track 1: I don't know what her ideology was specifically at the time she wrote,
30:19
Track 1: you know, when she was writing this film, but it feels like she probably Nazi ish. Yeah.
30:23
Track 1: But in some ways it, then I almost think of like, what's, what's going through
30:28
Track 1: her mind where she understands this divide between the working class and the,
30:33
Track 1: you know, the capitals class, and yet seems to,
30:37
Track 1: yeah, I mean, I guess it's kind of a muddled, her, go ahead,
30:40
Track 1: I can tell you about the season.
30:42
Track 4: So what I've learned, and I don't know much about Thiavon Harbaugh, is that she has,
30:49
Track 4: came from Bavaria. And there, there was a very big kind of, you know,
30:54
Track 4: in terms of mythology and belief systems, they were quite religious.
30:58
Track 4: They had very kind of set beliefs on what religion was.
31:01
Track 4: And so all the themes around, you know, you've got the seven deadly sins there,
31:04
Track 4: you've got death, and you've got... So when she's saying like,
31:08
Track 4: have faith and hope, I don't think she's saying that cynically.
31:10
Track 4: I don't think she's saying that as someone who believes in the opiate of the
31:13
Track 4: people to manipulate them.
31:14
Track 4: I think she's truly saying it that, you know, if you're a worker and you're
31:18
Track 4: in a bad state, then there's going to be a savior that's going to come and say,
31:22
Track 4: I think she's saying it with sincerity.
31:24
Track 4: And that does change the context again of the story.
31:28
Track 1: Yeah, I was looking at her Wikipedia page. It says she came from like a minor
31:32
Track 1: nobility family of government officials too.
31:34
Track 1: So she's coming in from that perspective too, of understanding the role of the
31:38
Track 1: government or the leaders in the plight of the people.
31:44
Track 1: Again, this is, you know, I'm going based on just a couple of lines.
31:48
Track 1: I don't have the full history.
31:50
Track 2: Yeah. I think there's also like a vast difference in the way the,
31:54
Track 2: those like older kind of like ruling
31:57
Track 2: class people viewed things and their relationship to the other classes.
32:03
Track 2: It's a huge difference between the way they viewed things and the way the ruling
32:08
Track 2: class today views the working class or the other people. It's a huge difference.
32:15
Track 2: Not like that it was great, but it's not the same.
32:19
Track 4: The thing is that in the Weimar Republic, okay, you've got Hitler in the background
32:22
Track 4: and you've got all of his, like he's been sent to prison and he's written the
32:26
Track 4: book and he's, you know, you've got his rise, the book, Mein Kampf.
32:32
Track 4: So, you know, that's happening in the background. But at the same time,
32:34
Track 4: there are revolutions and there is a strong like communist history in the 1920s as well.
32:40
Track 4: And it's not just a, like I said, it's very revolutionary. and
32:44
Track 4: there are people who are being murdered and then it's um i
32:47
Track 4: spoke to a guy joshua polanski for for this
32:49
Track 4: film um quite recently so there's an article he wrote uh
32:53
Track 4: where we're having conversation and he mentioned so an evil maria
32:56
Track 4: is being burnt at the end like she's she saw that as a revolutionary figure
33:00
Track 4: because she okay she's being we know that she's being manipulated to cause this
33:06
Track 4: kind of uprising but also if you remove that just the imagery of that person
33:11
Track 4: who is telling the masses you need to come,
33:14
Track 4: you need to revolt in a time where people have been murdered for having those kind of belief systems.
33:23
Track 4: And I think he mentioned Rosa Luxemburg, who was murdered.
33:27
Track 4: When stuff like that's happening, it's not like a very subdued type of political
33:33
Track 4: landscape in which it's just the Nazis rising to power.
33:38
Track 4: They then blame the communists for the burning of the Reichstag, right?
33:43
Track 4: it's a very politically volatile time. And so I don't think this film is,
33:49
Track 4: it's not saying, it's not like particularly going one way or the other.
33:54
Track 4: That's why it feels very much like, well, it doesn't seem particularly political what Lang is saying.
33:58
Track 4: He's not really talking about the workers rising up.
34:03
Track 4: And he's saying that there's a hierarchy, or at least that's what I get from it. I don't know.
34:09
Track 1: And a consequence for doing that, right? I like that.
34:13
Track 1: The interesting that the burning of her at the stake regardless of who it ends
34:18
Track 1: up being she is seen as the scapegoat that then can be you know burned for their
34:24
Track 1: attempted bringing of class consciousness to the to the masses.
34:27
Track 2: This i mean like if we look at it from the
34:30
Track 2: perspective of like like you said like aisha like how like all this is going
34:34
Track 2: on part of this has to do with the fact that you know like like any other film
34:37
Track 2: it's a collaborative process so we're going to have multiple viewpoints a director
34:41
Track 2: you know regardless of the screenplay the director is going to bring their vision
34:45
Track 2: upon it as well and it's going to shape it in its own way,
34:50
Track 2: and at the same time like what you know,
34:53
Track 2: Like Harbaugh and like how, you know, like you said, like, you know,
34:57
Track 2: she's deeply religious. I mean, like educated and at a convent,
35:00
Track 2: you know, deeply religious.
35:02
Track 2: And viewing all this, if we look in a lot of ways,
35:05
Track 2: Metropolis can be viewed as a holistic piece that is really can be viewed as
35:16
Track 2: the struggle of these individuals that created it to come to terms with.
35:24
Track 2: and understand all of these ideas at the time that are conflicting with each
35:30
Track 2: other, that are coming into conflict and are proliferating.
35:33
Track 2: That, you know, which is, you know, like, what is the correct,
35:38
Track 2: you know, where do you come down?
35:40
Track 2: How do I feel about this? Like, in the end, like, in a lot of ways,
35:45
Track 2: it really does feel like a meditation created by these individuals so they understand,
35:50
Track 2: like, what is happening in the world?
35:52
Track 2: And where do I come down on this? What do I think?
35:56
Track 4: It's interesting, actually, because while you're talking, I looked up,
35:59
Track 4: because we had the production code in Hollywood, which prevented any kind of
36:04
Track 4: super political films or anything that was considered too risque being made.
36:08
Track 4: And they had something similar in Germany called the Reich Moving Picture Law
36:12
Track 4: from 1920 to, I believe, 1934, after Hitler came into power.
36:16
Track 4: and that was here it
36:19
Track 4: says that all films had to be mandated by the
36:22
Track 4: government to protect public safety and safety and then youth from like you
36:27
Track 4: know corruption and stuff like that so it'd be interesting to know how much
36:31
Track 4: like in that case you wouldn't be able to you'd have to have the type of content
36:35
Track 4: that was you know given the okay by the government in that regard anyway yeah.
36:40
Track 2: But despite that we know no matter what there,
36:44
Track 2: There's always subversive information always, always bakes it through.
36:49
Track 2: Like they're incapable of catching everything.
36:53
Track 2: And sometimes just because they literally don't understand it. The people.
36:59
Track 1: Yeah, that gets that way going back to the, you know, Ro Twang is the like the tech bro.
37:06
Track 1: I think about all of the tech bros who look, they name their companies like
37:12
Track 1: Peter Thiel names his companies after.
37:14
Track 1: you know after things from lord of the rings where they don't they don't understand
37:19
Track 1: the movies and books because of their worldview or their just inability to you
37:26
Track 1: know for a variety of reasons,
37:29
Track 1: so it does make sense to me that uh the people watching this wouldn't necessarily
37:34
Track 1: understand like the film you just refer we just did an episode on uh they live
37:38
Track 1: by night a noir from the 40s.
37:41
Track 1: And it was basically written by a communist during the time when they were censoring
37:46
Track 1: films, but a lot of messages still seep through.
37:49
Track 1: So, you know, despite these rules, the, yeah, what is it, life finds a way in Jurassic Park?
37:58
Track 2: The left finds a way.
38:00
Track 4: It's like, you've seen that famous, what is it, the Torment Nexus tweet that someone tweeted out?
38:08
Track 1: I feel like we say that a lot.
38:12
Track 4: Yeah, I say that a lot, especially with a sci-fi podcast. It's like,
38:15
Track 4: it's Torment Nexus week again.
38:18
Track 2: Yeah. It's always Torment Nexus week.
38:21
Track 4: It is, goddamn.
38:22
Track 3: Yeah, I like what you were saying, Bill, like, them trying to,
38:25
Track 3: like, this is, like, a display of them, like, just trying to figure out the
38:29
Track 3: politics, because, like, some of the shit just don't be making sense.
38:32
Track 3: Like, Robot Maria gets the workers to fucking destroy all the machines,
38:36
Track 3: but then they turn against her because,
38:39
Track 3: like, they think she took their kids when she was saving them um like it's it's
38:46
Track 3: very silly and confusing at times yeah.
38:49
Track 4: But blaming women's like a.
38:50
Track 1: Really long term you.
38:52
Track 4: Know yeah it's a it's a good good thing to kind of like hedge your bets on yeah.
38:58
Track 3: At the time it's super easy to do.
39:00
Track 4: When i'm in doubt i.
39:01
Track 1: Always blame a.
39:01
Track 4: Woman you know.
39:02
Track 1: Well like just the idea of the
39:05
Track 1: you know the witch hunt and those kind of things going back you know
39:07
Track 1: centuries from this immediately i wrote down like that's
39:10
Track 1: the the scapegoat you're going to have you know you're going to refer to it
39:14
Track 1: as a witch as these secret powers but really it's just you're afraid of the
39:18
Track 1: patriarchy you're afraid of the women uh you know having some kind of power
39:23
Track 1: and you have to burn them to uh make yourself feel better yeah.
39:28
Track 4: And also the fact that this maria is ultimately the good maria is ultimately
39:32
Track 4: the heroine of this film and again it's at a time when like when you read about,
39:38
Track 4: the creative side of Weimar Germany, that kind of, I mean, you've got the German
39:42
Track 4: expressionism, but, you know, Joselian Baker had come to Berlin and it's like
39:46
Track 4: there were clubs and nightclubs and this, all of that is considered kind of
39:50
Track 4: evil and bad and the Yoshihara Club,
39:52
Track 4: again, with like a, you know, a foreign name kind of thing.
39:56
Track 4: Like it's demonized in the story.
40:00
Track 4: And again, that's probably Harbaugh's like religious sentiment that this is
40:04
Track 4: all decadent and indulgent type of stuff.
40:06
Track 2: The reason that like i watched this
40:09
Track 2: the first time and watched m is because my
40:13
Track 2: you know history professor at the time was very much adamant it's like the best
40:17
Track 2: way to understand the context of a historical period is to view the cultural
40:24
Track 2: products and the way those people and Weimar Germany was such a radical time period,
40:32
Track 2: you know,
40:34
Track 2: that formed and proliferated in reaction to World War I and like the economic, you know,
40:43
Track 2: spiral and then, you know,
40:46
Track 2: went one way and then in the end.
40:49
Track 2: led to the rise of Nazis. Like, you can't separate any of this from that time
40:56
Track 2: period. And like you said.
40:57
Track 4: Aisha— He sounds like a good professor.
40:59
Track 2: He was a good professor.
41:00
Track 4: Yeah.
41:00
Track 2: I went to school for—I mean, I didn't actually graduate college.
41:04
Track 2: But I went to college for writing, and I ended up actually taking so many history
41:09
Track 2: classes, I essentially double majored.
41:11
Track 2: And most of them were with him. uh but yeah like you know this i forget where
41:19
Track 2: i was going sorry that was my fault i interrupt.
41:21
Track 1: Just the context of history and the you know
41:24
Track 1: through the time period and the and the film makes perfect sense
41:27
Track 1: like what you were saying yeah the other thing that i noted when i was watching
41:31
Track 1: this that we haven't really maybe quite touched on is the i kept writing down
41:36
Track 1: when they're well first when they're showing the the guy that he takes that
41:40
Track 1: that uh freder takes places with where he's literally moving these dials when
41:45
Track 1: the lights go on, which also just,
41:47
Track 1: I wrote down just sort of ridiculous jobs that don't need people and they could
41:54
Track 1: be automated, but in the real world, they automate them not to benefit the working
42:00
Track 1: class, but actually to hurt them.
42:02
Track 1: And the automation that they then could have with this robot woman that's a
42:07
Track 1: robot that's been created,
42:08
Track 1: it could do those jobs and then let these people live a nice life,
42:12
Track 1: but that's not how the ruling class wants to use AI today or technologies, unfortunately.
42:19
Track 4: Don't fembo.
42:21
Track 1: Like Austin Powers.
42:22
Track 2: The creation of the robot actually, especially the way it is created in this film, it really...
42:33
Track 2: My issue with that is that, and the fact that the way the robot is created in
42:38
Track 2: this film belies the fascistic nature of the capitalist class and the ruling class in general,
42:45
Track 2: because even when they create a robot, they don't just create an automated system,
42:51
Track 2: they create a person.
42:53
Track 2: she for all intents and
42:56
Track 2: purposes as far as we is essentially a person
42:59
Track 2: with conscious like sapience but
43:02
Track 2: no free will so it's like they just want
43:06
Track 2: slaves they just want slaves they constantly they just want to create slavery
43:12
Track 2: they that's all they want they just want slaves it never ends and it's like
43:18
Track 2: even when they can create something that would be automated no it's It's got to be a person,
43:23
Track 2: too, because the suffering is the point, you know?
43:27
Track 4: That scene's phenomenal, though. It's such an amazing scene, like visually.
43:31
Track 2: Which one?
43:33
Track 4: When we get Maria being transferred into this, yeah. Well, when robot Maria gets...
43:40
Track 2: A facelift?
43:40
Track 4: A facelift, yeah.
43:42
Track 1: I mean, to talk about how, I mean, we alluded to just the incredible practical
43:46
Track 1: effects, but the body cast that they built for her to be in it,
43:52
Track 1: for Bridget Helm to be inside, is just amazing.
43:55
Track 1: I mean, for folks, you can, you know, there's a couple of, maybe we can put
43:59
Track 1: some links to some of the effects stuff in here, but it's just phenomenal.
44:04
Track 2: Also torturous. again as as i
44:07
Track 2: should point it out earlier like lang was not a
44:09
Track 2: good person and every like not only
44:12
Track 2: was he not a good person he was not
44:16
Track 2: actually a murderer sorry yes potentially a
44:19
Track 2: murderer but like notorious as a director for
44:22
Track 2: being cruel to the cast like he
44:27
Track 2: as a director believed the best way
44:30
Track 2: to get those true emotions out of your cast
44:33
Track 2: was to actually make them that miserable like
44:36
Track 2: that was that was his actual directorial philosophy
44:39
Track 2: it was like you know what frankly your acting isn't good enough i'm actually
44:43
Track 2: like the um when the the flooding is happening like that water was cold and
44:49
Track 2: he made them stay in it for hours on end and it wasn't like you know it was
44:54
Track 2: like no just you stay there.
44:56
Track 2: That's the point. Like, go and be miserable.
44:59
Track 1: And then Stanley Kubrick said, hold my beer. Let's see what I can do to Shelley Duvall.
45:05
Track 4: And these men make really good films. Damn, that's...
45:10
Track 2: He was known, he was known to be like a real...
45:15
Track 2: especially on this film especially on this film yeah he's tortured helm.
45:19
Track 1: The scene where they create her i couldn't help i mean
45:21
Track 1: i think when i looked it up this actually was the influence was you know the
45:25
Track 1: the mary shelley's frankenstein like the creating of that the bubbling flasks
45:32
Track 1: and the whole electricity it was such a all of the sets are incredible i mean
45:36
Track 1: just unthinkable in 1927 i just it's hard to believe that they made this it's.
45:41
Track 4: Funny actually because i i i'm blown away by it like in the 2020s and and it's
45:47
Track 4: amazing to me to think that people watching it in 2027 were like.
45:51
Track 1: Or just.
45:53
Track 4: Didn't like it or like you know like it's like what are you doing with your lives guys.
45:57
Track 1: Truly well.
45:58
Track 2: I mean there there are practical effects this movie that,
46:05
Track 2: we lost the technology, like the ability to do for like years.
46:10
Track 2: Like it's, we didn't just lose the prints of this movie.
46:15
Track 2: We filmmakers lost the ability to do some of the things they did in this film
46:20
Track 2: that made it look as seamless and perfect as it does.
46:25
Track 2: And I honestly, like, I think, I think part of the reason that people at the
46:29
Track 2: time are like, eh, is like when,
46:34
Track 2: when you create something so seamless they
46:38
Track 2: like i think there was like actually like a certain perspective people
46:41
Track 2: are like well like that's just real
46:44
Track 2: like you just filmed a real thing because like i i think they like
46:46
Track 2: like if we see something phenomenal now we could
46:49
Track 2: be like that's a computer like you made that on a computer and that's impressive
46:52
Track 2: that's artistry but at the time they didn't have that so like someone physically
46:57
Track 2: made that and they're like they have to assume that like either that's a real
47:01
Track 2: thing that existed or like somebody you know physically made that it's like
47:04
Track 2: okay you know that's like a real set okay you know.
47:08
Track 1: But there were but there were also i mean not that you're not just saying that
47:12
Track 1: you're wrong but then i think of when you get to a lot of the
47:16
Track 1: the charlie chaplin films in the 30s the some
47:19
Track 1: of those silent films with like modern times and
47:21
Track 1: the the technology they you know the special practical effects
47:24
Track 1: not special practical effects they do there those were viewed i think differently
47:29
Track 1: maybe 10 years or i don't know those were viewed more positively as far as this
47:35
Track 1: is really impressive like the scene in modern times i don't know if you've seen
47:37
Track 1: it where he's roller skating and it looks like he's about to fall into the,
47:42
Track 1: into a um down a stair shaft but they do it by gluing the scene onto a piece
47:49
Track 1: of glass behind the camera and it's just amazing we've lost that craft we've lost that craft.
47:55
Track 2: Yeah.
47:56
Track 4: It's really funny to me because H.G. Wells apparently hated this film.
48:01
Track 4: And he said it was a very silly film. But I get the feeling.
48:04
Track 3: It's kind of silly.
48:05
Track 4: It is silly.
48:07
Track 3: It's kind of silly.
48:08
Track 4: But I wonder if it's because H.G. Wells was so kind of like tech positive that
48:12
Track 4: the idea of using tech to kind of like, you know, cause damnation on a population.
48:17
Track 4: I wonder if that's, I should read his full, I probably did at some point,
48:20
Track 4: read his full article on that.
48:21
Track 1: Which is ironic given the way that the sort of the person creating the technology
48:26
Track 1: is treated or is viewed in the film itself.
48:30
Track 1: Like this, using the technology, I don't know. It's some kind of irony that I can't.
48:35
Track 2: Do you mean that he's like looked down upon?
48:37
Track 1: Yes, exactly.
48:38
Track 2: I feel like that goes, you know.
48:40
Track 3: It goes back to what Bill was saying.
48:41
Track 2: It's like they're always seen that way.
48:45
Track 2: It's almost like the capitalist class, like the ruling class, like.
48:51
Track 2: There is a certain level. It's like finance capitalists, especially that it's in its purest sense.
48:58
Track 2: It's just money. It's just money and expropriation of labor finance and like industry.
49:05
Track 2: It's like, it's just, it's the expropriation of labor and money.
49:08
Track 2: It's as pure as it can get. It's like a vampire.
49:10
Track 2: They're like, you know, I will not drain the blood of an animal.
49:14
Track 2: Only humans. It's like, has to be pure, has to be the pure purest form of oppression.
49:19
Track 2: It's like, Oh, a tech pro capitalist?
49:22
Track 2: Oh, wait, you thought something up and you made something?
49:25
Track 2: Oh, good for you. Good for you. Oh, you're also a billionaire,
49:29
Track 2: but you actually put some effort in at some point. It's not good enough.
49:35
Track 4: That is kind of true, because the idea of the kind of upper classes,
49:38
Track 4: you know, the idea of work is looked down upon. Like, you should have investments.
49:42
Track 1: What's wrong with you? Where's your capital?
49:45
Track 3: Oh, you made something? How pedestrian.
49:47
Track 4: Yeah.
49:47
Track 2: Yeah, exactly.
49:48
Track 4: It's like in, oh, what's that British drama with lots of rich people?
49:54
Track 4: I can't remember. And she's like, what? No, the other one, the older one.
49:58
Track 4: What's a weekend? Like, every day is a weekend, because I'm rich.
50:02
Track 2: Downton Abbey.
50:04
Track 4: Downton Abbey.
50:07
Track 2: Bridgerton is not a.
50:08
Track 1: British I knew what you meant even though you said the wrong thing.
50:16
Track 2: Like i feel like elon musk
50:19
Track 2: elon musk has never made a
50:22
Track 2: goddamn thing but even like the fact that he claims that he did is what in in
50:29
Track 2: the eyes of the other that like other faction of capital is what makes him lesser
50:35
Track 2: and like why he's not allowed to go to epstein's island because you know,
50:40
Track 2: he did work at some point, or at least claims,
50:44
Track 2: he claims to have done work.
50:46
Track 1: A scene that I'm curious what that was interesting when Maria is now in bed
50:51
Track 1: or, you know, the robot version of Maria is doing sort of this,
50:55
Track 1: I guess you could call it like a brulesque show for the men was,
50:59
Track 1: well, what I wrote down when I, when that happened was sort of like this,
51:02
Track 1: you know, bread and circuses or something where the, you know,
51:05
Track 1: she's pacifying the masses.
51:07
Track 1: but that scene is not to mention also the camera work of also when freder freder
51:14
Track 1: is uh having his sort of getting sick and all the camera uh the sort of having this fever dream.
51:19
Track 4: It's really amazing both of those scenes were phenomenal but i.
51:22
Track 1: Don't know what to maybe to make of that maybe i'm making too much of it.
51:26
Track 4: I don't think she's pacifying them because she's i suppose
51:29
Track 4: she's a distraction yeah for for the but these are these are upper class people
51:33
Track 4: who are coming to this yoshua club right um so she's a distraction for them
51:37
Track 4: but they're they're fighting over her right like they're getting like incensed
51:41
Track 4: with like lust and then they're like they break out in fights in the club so yeah that.
51:47
Track 2: Is road vong that is his ploy to further so discontent not just amongst the
51:54
Track 2: working class but amongst the other bourgeois so that he can gain power like that's him,
52:02
Track 2: destabilizing the entire system. That's his intention.
52:06
Track 2: You know, she was never supposed to do that.
52:08
Track 2: Like, according to Freighterson, like, she was supposed to go incite violence
52:13
Track 2: amongst the workers. That's it. So he could be violent against that.
52:16
Track 2: She was never supposed to come up top and do stuff. That's what,
52:19
Track 2: when he's like, you know, Rodefong says to, I think Freighter,
52:24
Track 2: he says he's like, you know, but, you know, he was, you know,
52:29
Track 2: I fooled him that she's under my control.
52:33
Track 2: You know, that I, she takes orders from me.
52:35
Track 1: I think that he's, she, that Fraderson refers to her as an obedient tool,
52:40
Track 1: which I thought was a, you know, very specific line of this,
52:44
Track 1: you know, we can control this.
52:47
Track 1: But then when she becomes uncontrollable is when, you know, all breaks loose
52:52
Track 1: and leads to the flooding of the, you know, the working class city,
52:57
Track 1: which also the effects on all of that was amazing.
52:59
Track 1: I mean, can't say that enough times in this movie.
53:04
Track 2: Yeah. I think my favorite line of the entire film, though, is,
53:07
Track 2: Father, Father, will ten hours never end.
53:12
Track 4: Yeah.
53:13
Track 3: That was so good. I've been there.
53:16
Track 2: It really says everything. It's like, it says everything about the plight of
53:22
Track 2: people who sell their labor. Will ten hours never end.
53:27
Track 1: Especially in that ridiculous, you know, again, that whatever he was doing with
53:33
Track 1: the little hands and the lighting of the little bulbs.
53:36
Track 4: Yeah, what is he doing? Is he trying to like give them more time to finish their
53:40
Track 4: work? Or is he trying? I don't understand what he's doing.
53:43
Track 1: It just looks amazing.
53:44
Track 2: There's a temperature gauge.
53:48
Track 4: But I feel like that's a clock. Is it not a clock? I don't know.
53:51
Track 3: I felt like he was like, it's very clock shaped, but I feel like he's attempting to complete circuits.
53:58
Track 2: Yeah, yeah. That's what I got.
54:00
Track 3: To prevent a temperature from going up for some reason.
54:03
Track 2: That's how I saw it. Because it's like, if he doesn't get into the thing, the gauge goes up.
54:08
Track 1: Also, the scene where the initial accident happens and there's that meltdown
54:13
Track 1: and Frederson is talking to him through a screen. the way they were able to
54:18
Track 1: project it looking like that was also very impressive in.
54:21
Track 4: 1927 yeah i think it's really funny that guy who's sent to spy on fredo like
54:27
Track 4: why does he just why does he just know where he lives because like that's his
54:31
Track 4: boss's son like his dad doesn't know where he lives what.
54:34
Track 1: Was that guy's name did he have a name the the oh the fin man right right,
54:40
Track 1: I wrote down just a goon when I was, when he first introduced,
54:42
Track 1: cause I didn't remember his name.
54:44
Track 3: He was a good goon.
54:45
Track 1: A very good goon. Yeah. He was very menacing.
54:48
Track 2: I, I do think that like part of like the, the whole like, oh,
54:53
Track 2: this is silly, especially like, you know,
54:55
Track 2: is like, it is difficult, especially as someone, you know, like who,
55:00
Track 2: you know, like we've, we've, we live now, you know, like all the movies we watch, what we've grown up.
55:05
Track 2: it is difficult to separate from certain like just the context of like just
55:11
Track 2: the mannerisms like the way a silent film is acted is so exaggerated and like over the top.
55:22
Track 4: That like there is.
55:24
Track 2: There is part of it like i i have to think that like especially because like
55:28
Track 2: the way orwell made stuff and like the way orwell was like yeah he was always
55:32
Track 2: going to like call that silly because like he was so you know like the way.
55:37
Track 4: You mean hg wells it was silly yeah hg.
55:41
Track 2: Wells it's so like more you know bombastic in a lot of ways.
55:48
Track 4: Yeah and and the thing is all silent films are probably overactive because it
55:53
Track 4: is overactive right because there's no words we we need to we need to know what
55:56
Track 4: you're feeling maria um and and.
55:58
Track 2: Boy does she convey.
55:59
Track 4: With that face with a heart hand on her heart half the time um yeah and her hands as claws,
56:08
Track 4: the robot maria yeah yeah but yeah i don't know i think i want i think it got
56:13
Track 4: like quite a few bad reviews like when i was i remember when i was looking at
56:17
Track 4: before and so i don't know why why do we why do we forgive those kind of silly
56:21
Track 4: things now and why did they not get blown away by the spectacle then it's just interesting to me yeah.
56:26
Track 1: She was she was fantastic i mean i mean,
56:29
Track 1: incredible in the movie i mean so good yeah all of her expressions yeah.
56:35
Track 4: And she was what she was 17.
56:36
Track 1: Or something she.
56:37
Track 4: Was very young when she she made the film.
56:38
Track 2: To be fair i mean critics are historically and notoriously terrible so you know.
56:43
Track 1: You know saying a movie is terrible at the time and then you
56:46
Track 1: know with with a you know uh what is it uh yeah a
56:50
Track 1: re uh reevaluation like oh that movie was great
56:53
Track 1: i saw that recently with something
56:57
Track 1: where everyone trashed the film oh you know what it was it was showgirls because
57:02
Track 1: that movie was panned by everyone and then sometime recently a bunch of those
57:06
Track 1: same critics come up to elizabeth berkeley and tell her how much they love the
57:10
Track 1: film and she just can't help but just not care what they think because they
57:14
Track 1: all said bad things about it when it came out so i've.
57:16
Track 4: Never seen it but i have seen reviews of it like i think i think the fact that
57:20
Track 4: it like i think people just completely missed that it was supposed to be a commentary.
57:23
Track 1: Every time they'll make a movie again.
57:26
Track 4: Like with like with robocop right like it's it's yeah it's the same director
57:29
Track 4: guys you could have to switch on it.
57:31
Track 1: Put the pieces together like my roman empire when it comes to uh people misrepresenting
57:40
Track 1: them on the internet is there anything else uh aisha that you uh had in your
57:46
Track 1: notes that we haven't maybe touched upon um.
57:49
Track 4: No i think i think we've covered like a lot of stuff here like we've covered
57:53
Track 4: religion and and politics and and how amazing the film looks like those are the main things i think.
57:59
Track 1: What are you worries you have anything else or any uh notes i mean you i mean
58:03
Track 1: well you mentioned that you called it a color revolution when we were in our little chat too yeah.
58:08
Track 3: Yeah no i yeah because like um yeah because robot Maria uh,
58:15
Track 3: basically takes all of the um all the
58:18
Track 3: frustration and consciousness of the
58:21
Track 3: workers and sends it towards the machines which
58:25
Track 3: ends up uh creating the disaster which floods the worker city and threatens
58:30
Track 3: the children's lives um and it's like it wasn't like an actual worker red led
58:36
Track 3: revolution it was one led by a fucking machine created by a bourgeois tech bro.
58:43
Track 2: When you said that, what it made me think of was the outside agitator message.
58:52
Track 2: And every accusation is always a confession. It's like, oh, it's the outside agitator.
58:57
Track 2: Every time we find out, oh, actually, that was placed there by the CIA or the cops or whatever.
59:06
Track 2: Every time, it's outside agitator.
59:08
Track 1: I think we already talked about the ending with, you know, the handshake between them.
59:12
Track 1: And I think the note that I wrote down is that this was like the worst union
59:16
Track 1: mediator or union representative ever.
59:19
Track 1: Just this is our deal, guys. Come on. We didn't want this.
59:24
Track 4: Yeah. What are your demands? You don't have any demands? Okay, great.
59:27
Track 2: No demands. No demands. Nothing. No demands.
59:32
Track 4: We're just going to go back to work and you can try to kill us again if you
59:35
Track 4: want. That's fine with us.
59:36
Track 1: Yeah, you also destroyed all of our homes and our city, so where are we going to live?
59:39
Track 4: Oh, maybe we can come up to the surface, sir. Maybe.
59:43
Track 1: And the thing that I also, I mean, this is maybe going back slightly,
59:46
Track 1: but when the, you know, Frederson doesn't seem to really care what's going on
59:51
Track 1: until the power goes out in his, you know, above the ground.
59:55
Track 1: And when their lives are disrupted is the only thing that actually leads them to care.
1:00:01
Track 4: Or when his son is threatened, yeah. Yeah.
1:00:03
Track 2: Yeah.
1:00:04
Track 1: So take note, capitalists or working class people.
1:00:09
Track 4: Or don't, because we have no device. We will go back to work.
1:00:13
Track 4: Because we have a mediator who's come along. And yeah.
1:00:18
Track 1: Well, I mean, just two days before, the day before recording this,
1:00:23
Track 1: there is the woman who set the toilet paper factory on fire for not getting
1:00:27
Track 1: paid good wages. So I guess there
1:00:29
Track 1: are people that are taking some of these matters into their own hands.
1:00:32
Track 4: Yeah, it's interesting. I think a lot of these things, in terms of when people
1:00:37
Track 4: act, usually happens when the economy gets terrible or people are in terrible,
1:00:45
Track 4: terrible situations. Yeah.
1:00:47
Track 4: I just think, I get the feeling that's not yet in a lot of places. I don't know.
1:00:51
Track 1: I agree completely.
1:00:52
Track 3: No, it's starting. I mean, there was an eviction in California that turned into
1:00:58
Track 3: an active shootout with police.
1:00:59
Track 4: Whoa, I missed that.
1:01:01
Track 1: Yeah. Material conditions has not deteriorated enough, but I think we're...
1:01:05
Track 3: We're going to get a lot of that in the future.
1:01:07
Track 2: Yeah. Ward has been saying, for probably the past year, what is it?
1:01:12
Track 2: like you've been saying like we are in the beginning of our our years of lead in the u.s.
1:01:17
Track 4: Yeah well all.
1:01:19
Track 2: That guy said he all he kept saying on that video is all you do is pay us a living wage oh.
1:01:22
Track 4: God burn.
1:01:25
Track 3: That warehouse down.
1:01:26
Track 4: Yeah and it's so sad because like
1:01:29
Track 4: you know like the cost of like energy
1:01:32
Track 4: like utility bills in the uk just keeps going through the roof
1:01:35
Track 4: and there's you know every winter i mean the government are intervening um to
1:01:39
Track 4: a degree but you know the the bonuses and the and the profits don't change they
1:01:44
Track 4: keep going up it's just like well what that's not it's just not workable long
1:01:48
Track 4: term you can't you can't have little ladies dying in the winter and and being
1:01:51
Track 4: like well at least i got more profits yeah.
1:01:54
Track 1: I just saw this is maybe unrelated but i just saw that the frito-lay who owns
1:01:58
Track 1: you know doritos said they lost a billion dollars last quarter because they
1:02:02
Track 1: They raised the prices of their chips so high that everyone just said, I'm good with that.
1:02:06
Track 1: And now they're like, oh, we have to reduce our prices.
1:02:09
Track 1: And so, I mean, it's not very... It's rare where they actually make any kind
1:02:14
Track 1: of course correction like that. So, unless there's a loss of profits.
1:02:18
Track 4: Yeah.
1:02:19
Track 2: Here we have our energy bills going up because of data centers.
1:02:25
Track 4: Oh, it's also horribly scary, but yeah.
1:02:28
Track 1: Yes, but...
1:02:30
Track 1: Aisha, from the Every Single Sci-Fi Film Ever, Asterix, Almost Ever,
1:02:37
Track 1: thank you for coming on Left of the Projecture. It's great having you.
1:02:40
Track 4: Thank you, almost. Yeah, thank you so much for having me on.
1:02:43
Track 1: Of course. And you can follow your
1:02:46
Track 1: podcast and our podcast on pretty much everywhere that podcasts are sold.
1:02:53
Track 4: Or they're actually not sold.
1:02:55
Track 1: They're free.
1:02:55
Track 4: They're free. So get them while you can.
1:02:57
Track 1: Sold Asterix.
1:02:58
Track 4: They're cheaper than Doritos.
1:03:00
Track 1: Yes. But wherever we're finding podcasts are free, we let them have,
1:03:05
Track 1: anyone can have them and listen to them.
1:03:07
Track 1: But thank you again. And you've been listening to Left of the Projector as Evan,
1:03:12
Track 1: Ward, and Bill. We will catch you all next time.
1:03:15
Track 2: How's it going, everybody?