Latest / The Kevin Stone Podcast / Episode #43 "Justice & Government Power"

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Episode #43 "Justice & Government Power" · The Kevin Stone Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Some podcasts have experts. This is not one of those podcasts.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: This is one guy, a microphone, a cup of coffee,
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  Speaker 1: and absolutely no guarantee where any of this is going.
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  Speaker 1: From small town Arkansas to Washington, D.C., from politics and
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  Speaker 1: current events to history, space, faith, and whatever else happens
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: to get under his skin. He'll ask the questions. He'll
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: give you his opinion. And every once in a while,
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  Speaker 1: he might even know what he's talking about. No fancy degree,
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  Speaker 1: no corporate talking points, just an ordinary guy trying to
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  Speaker 1: make sense of an increasingly strange world. Ladies and gentlemen.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: This is the Kevin Stone Podcast.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: I'm for the death penalty. I'm also against unchecked government power.
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  Speaker 2: Those two things can't sit in the same chair without fighting.
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  Speaker 2: If the government is going to take somebody's life, I
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: expect it to prove its case, follow the law, and
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  Speaker 2: answer questions about how it carries out that sentence. Supporting
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: the punishment doesn't mean I have to clap for everything
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: that the government is doing along the way. The Army
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  Speaker 2: has announced plans to execute Nadal Hassan by firing squad
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  Speaker 2: on December 3, 2026, at 1 o'clock Central Time. That's
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  Speaker 2: the plan as it stands while I'm preparing this show.
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  Speaker 2: A scheduled date can still change. Hassan is the former
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  Speaker 2: Army major and psychiatrist convicted for the shooting at Fort
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  Speaker 2: Hood in 2009. We'll keep the crime details short. Then
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  Speaker 2: we'll look at the last military execution, why I think
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  Speaker 2: a firing squad deserves consideration, and why the government still
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: needs somebody checking its homework. I didn't go to Harvard,
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  Speaker 2: but I can recognize the serious responsibility when somebody hands
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: it a government badge. On November 5, 2009, Hassan opened
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  Speaker 2: fire at Fort Hood. Thirteen people died and more than
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  Speaker 2: 30 others were injured. The Army's account of his court-martial
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  Speaker 2: says he was convicted of 13 counts of premeditated murder
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  Speaker 2: and 32 counts of attempted premeditated murder. The court sentenced
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  Speaker 2: him to death on August 28, 2013. Premeditated means the
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: killing was planned. A court-martial is a military criminal trial.
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  Speaker 2: That's enough legal vocabulary for this part. We're trying to
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  Speaker 2: explain the case, not get anybody a law degree before supper.
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  Speaker 2: He faces execution because of those convictions. That's the basic
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  Speaker 2: answer to why the Army is doing this. Before we
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  Speaker 2: go any further, 13 people lost their lives. There are
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  Speaker 2: families who have been living with this since 2009. There
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  Speaker 2: are survivors who have carried the injuries and the memories.
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  Speaker 2: They deserve more than a passing mention while everybody argues
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  Speaker 2: about the man who caused it. I support the death
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: penalty for crimes that warrant it. That doesn't erase the
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  Speaker 2: government's responsibility. If anything, a punishment you can't undo ought
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: to make officials more careful about every step. The Army
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  Speaker 2: says the military appeals process upheld Hassan's conviction and sentences.
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  Speaker 2: And President Donald Trump approved the death sentence on October 2nd.
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  Speaker 2: That approval is part of the military process. It doesn't
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  Speaker 2: mean every possible question a federal court could consider has
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  Speaker 2: magically disappeared. So when I say unchecked power, I'm not
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  Speaker 2: claiming Hassan never had a trial or an appeal. He did.
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  Speaker 2: I'm talking about the standard we ought to insist on
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  Speaker 2: whenever government holds this kind of authority. Fair trials, real review,
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  Speaker 2: honest answers when something fails, and somebody outside the office
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  Speaker 2: that made the mistake taking a serious look at what happened.
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  Speaker 2: The government should never get to answer a question this
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  Speaker 2: important with, we investigated ourselves and were very impressed with ourselves. Okay,
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  Speaker 2: here's the part that makes this unusual. The last execution
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  Speaker 2: carried out by the United States military was April 13, 1961.
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  Speaker 2: The Army executed Private John A. Bennett by hanging at
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  Speaker 2: Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. He had been convicted of rape and
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  Speaker 2: attempted murder. If the Army carries out Hassan's sentence in December,
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  Speaker 2: it will be the first military execution in 65 years.
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  Speaker 2: That doesn't mean America hasn't executed anybody since 1961. It
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  Speaker 2: means the military hasn't. State executions and military executions are
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  Speaker 2: different systems, and Bennett's execution was a hanging. We're talking
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  Speaker 2: about the last military execution of any kind. not claiming
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  Speaker 2: it was the last firing squad execution anywhere in the country.
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  Speaker 2: 65 years is a long gap. Whatever somebody thinks about
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  Speaker 2: this sentence, that ought to make the procedure worth examining carefully.
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  Speaker 2: A serious job deserves more than, well, somebody around here
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  Speaker 2: probably remembers how we used to do it. Now let's
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  Speaker 2: connect this to what we talked about with Krista Pike
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  Speaker 2: in Tennessee. On September 13th, Tennessee attempted to execute Pike
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  Speaker 2: by lethal injection. Reporting describes two doses of the execution drug.
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  Speaker 2: She survived and went to a hospital. Governor Bill Lee
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  Speaker 2: paused executions for the rest of the year and ordered
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  Speaker 2: an outside review. Her attorney said on October 6 that
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  Speaker 2: she was conscious and speaking while still receiving critical medical care.
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  Speaker 2: That is their reported update. It doesn't mean she was
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  Speaker 2: fully recovered. We don't have to turn this into a
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  Speaker 2: medical lecture or guess at the final cause. That's what
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  Speaker 2: the investigation needs to establish. And Colleen Slimmer, the young
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  Speaker 2: woman Pike murdered, still matters. Asking whether the state handled
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  Speaker 2: the execution properly does not excuse the murder or take
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  Speaker 2: away anything from the victim. My position on a second
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  Speaker 2: attempt remains the same. The state tried to carry out
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  Speaker 2: the sentence and failed. I would favor changing Pike's sentence
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  Speaker 2: to life without parole rather than trying again. That's my
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  Speaker 2: moral judgment, not me announcing that the law automatically requires it.
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  Speaker 2: I can support the death penalty and still say the
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  Speaker 2: government owes us a straight answer when its attempt ends
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  Speaker 2: with the prisoner in the hospital. So why do I
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  Speaker 2: think a firing squad would be better than lethal injections? Well,
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  Speaker 2: you don't have to put in an IV and administer drugs,
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  Speaker 2: and there's a less likely chance that there could be
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  Speaker 2: a malfunction. The most plain language explanation I can give.
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  Speaker 2: There's also an argument that when performed confidently, it can
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  Speaker 2: cause death very quickly. Justice Sonja Sotomayor discussed that argument
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  Speaker 2: in a 2017 dissent. A dissent is a justice's disagreement
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  Speaker 2: with what the court decided. It's not a Supreme Court
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  Speaker 2: ruling that every firing squad execution is quick or painless.
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  Speaker 2: I'm not going to claim there's a method with no
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  Speaker 2: possibility of suffering or failure. There isn't a guarantee I
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  Speaker 2: can honestly give you. A different method still requires trained
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  Speaker 2: people and oversight. But making an execution look like a
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  Speaker 2: medical procedure doesn't settle whether the state is doing it responsibly.
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  Speaker 2: A hospital-looking room and a carefully worded press release aren't
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  Speaker 2: proof of competence. My concern is what actually happens to
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  Speaker 2: the person and whether the government can account for its actions.
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  Speaker 2: The appearance of the procedure can't be the whole standard.
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  Speaker 2: If government carries out a lawful death sentence, I want
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  Speaker 2: it carried out as reliably and with as little unnecessary
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  Speaker 2: suffering as possible. And when something goes wrong, I want
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  Speaker 2: evidence preserved and an independent investigation. Saying we followed the
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  Speaker 2: protocol should begin the explanation, not end it. That's why
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  Speaker 2: I favor considering the firing squad. It avoids the IV
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  Speaker 2: and drug problems. It does not eliminate the need for
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  Speaker 2: limits on government power. And changing the method could never
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  Speaker 2: fix a wrongful conviction. The trial and the review still matter. Okay,
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  Speaker 2: here's where I land. Hassan's crimes were terrible. The victims
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  Speaker 2: deserve to be remembered. I support the death penalty. I
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  Speaker 2: also expect the government to meet a serious standard when
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  Speaker 2: it uses that power. For me, supporting a sentence and
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  Speaker 2: questioning the government's competence go together. If you believe a
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  Speaker 2: responsibility matters, you should care whether the people carrying it
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  Speaker 2: out are getting it right. That standard applies no matter
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  Speaker 2: which party is in charge. My principles don't change every
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  Speaker 2: time somebody changes the picture on the office wall. And
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  Speaker 2: we can discuss all of this without pretending the victims
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  Speaker 2: don't matter, and without handing officials a blank check. all
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  Speaker 2: right everybody i know this is a part that everybody's
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  Speaker 2: been waiting on here so let's just get into it
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: we've got another top 10 for you today top 10
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  Speaker 2: things that an executioner should never say number 10 so
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  Speaker 2: anybody doing anything fun after this number nine I'm just saying,
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  Speaker 2: the Craigslist ad made this job sound way different. Number eight. Okay,
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  Speaker 2: before we start, does anybody need to use the bathroom?
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  Speaker 2: Number seven. Man, I picked a terrible day to quit drinking.
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  Speaker 2: Number six. Anybody else think it's weird that they don't
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  Speaker 2: do a rehearsal? Number five. I'm gonna be honest with you,
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  Speaker 2: I usually work the day shift.
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  Speaker 1: Number four.
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  Speaker 2: Hang on, my wife's calling. If I don't answer it,
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  Speaker 2: she'll kill me. Number three. You know what? I probably
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  Speaker 2: shouldn't have had that second energy drink. Number two. Okay,
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  Speaker 2: everybody relax. What's the worst that could happen? And the
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  Speaker 2: number one thing an executioner should never say is, don't worry,
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  Speaker 2: we got better since the last one.