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Murder In Moscow: Katherine Ramsland And Bryan Kohberger · Beyond The Horizon

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome back to the program. So
0:04
Speaker 1: there's no shortage of articles for us to go through
0:07
Speaker 1: at this point about Brian Kohberger and about who he
0:11
Speaker 1: might be, what he was up to, and what his
0:13
Speaker 1: life was like before he was the suspect in these murders. However,
0:19
Speaker 1: there's an article from The Daily Beast that goes into
0:22
Speaker 1: it a little bit deeper as far as his studies
0:25
Speaker 1: and some of the people that have known him in
0:28
Speaker 1: his life. So I thought we'd use this article and
0:31
Speaker 1: dive into it and see what we can come up with.
0:35
Speaker 1: Like I said, this article is from The Daily Beast
0:37
Speaker 1: and the headline detached suspect in Idaho murders studied under
0:41
Speaker 1: famed criminologist. This article was authored by Josh Fiallo, Emily Sugarman,
0:48
Speaker 1: Kate Bricklett, and Rachel Olding. The twenty eight year old
0:55
Speaker 1: graduate student charged with killing four University of Idaho students
0:59
Speaker 1: in their sleep undertook a research project that asked x
1:03
Speaker 1: cons to map out how they committed their crimes, and
1:06
Speaker 1: took courses by the famed forensic psychologist Katherine Ramsland, who
1:11
Speaker 1: has written sixty eight books, including How to Catch a Killer.
1:14
Speaker 1: The psychology of death, investigations, and the mind of a murderer.
1:19
Speaker 1: So this dude was taking these classes, remember undergraduate, trying
1:23
Speaker 1: to become, you know, a lawyer, whatever the hell he's
1:25
Speaker 1: going to do with this degree, and he's taking these
1:28
Speaker 1: classes from this famed criminologist. So this guy's feeling himself, right.
1:34
Speaker 1: He thinks, Look, I have all this this schooling, I've
1:37
Speaker 1: studied all of these years. I know what I'm doing.
1:39
Speaker 1: I can commit the perfect crime. Well, no, you can't,
1:44
Speaker 1: and now it's gonna be time to pay the piper.
1:48
Speaker 1: Moscow Police Chief James Frye confirmed at a Friday afternoon
1:52
Speaker 1: press conference that Brian Christopher Coberger was arrested that morning
1:56
Speaker 1: on a warrant for the first degree murders of Kaylee
1:59
Speaker 1: Gonsolves and Madison Mogan and Xana Kernodle and her boyfriend
2:03
Speaker 1: Ethan Chapin. He was nabbed in his hometown of Albrightsville, Pennsylvania,
2:08
Speaker 1: and will appear in court Tuesday for extradition purposes. Now
2:12
Speaker 1: I wonder, and again this is just my speculation. I
2:15
Speaker 1: want to be very clear about that. I wonder if
2:18
Speaker 1: this man was stalking Kaylee or Madison. He was following
2:23
Speaker 1: them on Instagram, so was he stalking them? Did he
2:27
Speaker 1: run into them at work while they were working at
2:29
Speaker 1: the Mad Greek Very possible, Again just my speculation, but
2:34
Speaker 1: he had to have come in contact somewhere with these girls, right,
2:37
Speaker 1: They had to come on his radar somewhere. So I
2:40
Speaker 1: think it's going to be very interesting when we find
2:42
Speaker 1: out how they even came into his orbit, because I
2:45
Speaker 1: highly doubt they were all hanging around in the same
2:48
Speaker 1: social circles. Everything we've heard about Coburger so far doesn't
2:52
Speaker 1: strike me as a guy that's going down to the
2:54
Speaker 1: bar and slamming back shots. Frey declined to release their details,
3:00
Speaker 1: including a potential motive, until Coburger is brought back to Idaho.
3:05
Speaker 1: An FBI surveillance team has been tracking him for four
3:07
Speaker 1: days before his arrest. According to CNN, cops have not
3:11
Speaker 1: yet found the murder weapon, Fry said, but they did
3:14
Speaker 1: seize a white Hondai Lantra, the same model of car
3:17
Speaker 1: scene in the vicinity of the murders in November. Now,
3:21
Speaker 1: I highly doubt he still has this knife. If he
3:24
Speaker 1: was smart, he would have tossed that knife in the ocean.
3:27
Speaker 1: But he still had the vehicles. So there's that. Whenever
3:30
Speaker 1: you try and make heads or tails of psychopaths like
3:33
Speaker 1: this and their behavior and what they're doing and why
3:35
Speaker 1: they're doing it, it's always a fool's errand unless you're
3:38
Speaker 1: a trained criminologist anyway, because it makes no sense to
3:41
Speaker 1: me if you're trying to get away with their crime,
3:44
Speaker 1: first thing you do, get rid of the murder weapon.
3:46
Speaker 1: And if you're in a vehicle, well you got to
3:48
Speaker 1: get rid of that vehicle, right And if you're driving
3:50
Speaker 1: your own vehicle there, well you're asking for trouble. So
3:54
Speaker 1: for somebody who was supposed to be so smart, somebody
3:57
Speaker 1: who was trained under a famed criminologist, you think you
4:00
Speaker 1: know the basics about getting away with a crime. Public
4:05
Speaker 1: records list Coburger as a registered libertarian voter what does
4:09
Speaker 1: that even matter? By the way, and a criminology buff
4:12
Speaker 1: who comes from a family of mental health workers. He
4:15
Speaker 1: is a criminal Justice in Criminology PhD student at Washington
4:19
Speaker 1: State University and lives on campus in Pullman, just eight
4:23
Speaker 1: miles from the Moscow crime scene. WSU Pullman Chancellor Elizabeth
4:28
Speaker 1: Chilton confirmed that search warrants were executed Friday at Colberger's
4:33
Speaker 1: apartment and office on campus. Cohburger had completed his first
4:37
Speaker 1: semester as a PhD student in WSU's Criminal Justice program
4:42
Speaker 1: earlier this month, she said, adding that campus police were
4:45
Speaker 1: working with local, state, and federal law enforcement. I have
4:50
Speaker 1: an episode that will be out later today that's dealing
4:53
Speaker 1: with the raids of these offices and going into more
4:57
Speaker 1: detail about what went on. Coburger completed his graduate studies
5:03
Speaker 1: in criminal justice this year at the Salles University in
5:06
Speaker 1: Center Valley, Pennsylvania, where students told The Daily Beast he
5:10
Speaker 1: took classes with Professor Ramsland, whose courses included psychology of
5:15
Speaker 1: death investigations. Ramsland declined to comment when reached by The
5:19
Speaker 1: Daily Beast. Why would you decline to comment if one
5:22
Speaker 1: of your students ended up becoming a murderer? Not like
5:25
Speaker 1: you had anything to do with it. You're just teaching
5:27
Speaker 1: the classes. You would think that this teacher could offer
5:29
Speaker 1: some insight, but instead, let's go into the bunker and
5:32
Speaker 1: hide out. A former classmate at Dessallis, who asked not
5:38
Speaker 1: to be named, said they got into a disagreement with
5:40
Speaker 1: Coburger during an introductory biology class greup project while they
5:45
Speaker 1: didn't remember the conversation. They were called Coburger as very
5:49
Speaker 1: intelligent and well spoken, but seemingly detached. He was very
5:55
Speaker 1: level and somewhat imposing. There wasn't much emotion displayed by him,
5:59
Speaker 1: the classmates said, adding that he remembers Coohburger's intense stare.
6:04
Speaker 1: So when you look at this dude, he certainly looks
6:06
Speaker 1: a bit off. Not that that means anything. People can
6:08
Speaker 1: look one way and then be completely different. You can't
6:11
Speaker 1: go off of what somebody looks like. That's ridiculous. But
6:15
Speaker 1: he does have that dead pan stare. There's no doubt.
6:18
Speaker 1: In the military they call that the thousand yards stare,
6:22
Speaker 1: and he certainly has that shit. He was very leveled
6:26
Speaker 1: and somewhat imposing. There wasn't much emotion displayed by him,
6:30
Speaker 1: the classmate said, adding that he remembers Colburger's intense stares.
6:34
Speaker 1: He took care with how he spoke, the person said
6:37
Speaker 1: in a sense removed post on Reddit from seven months ago.
6:40
Speaker 1: Colberger asked x cons to participate into Sallis research project
6:45
Speaker 1: that sought to understand how emotions and psychological traits influence
6:49
Speaker 1: decision making when committing a crime and It's crazy that
6:53
Speaker 1: Reddit would even take that down. I am not a
6:56
Speaker 1: fan of these social media platforms scrubbing people's information. It's
7:01
Speaker 1: almost like they don't want the public to know, so
7:03
Speaker 1: that the official narrative that gets pumped out by the
7:06
Speaker 1: legacy media is the only narrative that exists. And I'm
7:11
Speaker 1: not a big fan of that. I think transparency should
7:14
Speaker 1: be paramount whenever we're talking about a case like this,
7:17
Speaker 1: or any sort of nationally acclaimed case, or any case
7:20
Speaker 1: in general, the most amount of transparency that can be
7:24
Speaker 1: applied should be applied. That's the sort of country we
7:28
Speaker 1: live in, or the sort of country we're supposed to
7:30
Speaker 1: live in. The research project, which was taken off line Friday,
7:36
Speaker 1: ask participants questions like how they approach their victim or target,
7:40
Speaker 1: how they prepared for the crime, how they traveled to
7:43
Speaker 1: and enter the location of the crime, and did you
7:46
Speaker 1: struggle with or fight the victim. Now here's a pretty
7:50
Speaker 1: chilling question. How long has he been putting this plan together?
7:55
Speaker 1: Has he been watching the girls? Was he watching them
7:57
Speaker 1: and stalking them and sitting outside of this residence and
8:00
Speaker 1: planning all of this? Remember he lived in Pullman, a
8:03
Speaker 1: mere eight miles away. He could have been down in
8:06
Speaker 1: Moscow checking out what these girls were doing, looking through
8:09
Speaker 1: those windows. You know how these people are. Now obviously
8:13
Speaker 1: he's not France's dollar Hide from the Red Dragon. But
8:16
Speaker 1: in that movie, that book, you see how these serial
8:19
Speaker 1: killers get down. Oh boy, set up shop right outside
8:22
Speaker 1: with a vantage point from a wooded area, looking directly
8:25
Speaker 1: at the house, casing it, figuring out a plan on
8:28
Speaker 1: how to get in, and then when the time was right,
8:31
Speaker 1: made his move. And it's starting to look like, at
8:34
Speaker 1: least to me anyway, that that's what we had here,
8:37
Speaker 1: That this dude, this wasn't just a random spur of
8:40
Speaker 1: the moment attack. This was something that was planned out
8:43
Speaker 1: and premeditated. In a statement to The Daily Beast, Dasaalas
8:48
Speaker 1: confirmed Coburger received a bachelor's degree in twenty twenty and
8:52
Speaker 1: completed his graduate studies in June of twenty twenty two.
8:56
Speaker 1: As a Catholic Silesian community, we are devastated by this
8:59
Speaker 1: senseless tragedy. Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims'
9:03
Speaker 1: families during this difficult time set, A spokesperson Northampton Community
9:08
Speaker 1: College in Albrightsville confirmed to the Daily Beast that Coburger
9:12
Speaker 1: graduated in twenty eighteen as a psychology major. He was
9:17
Speaker 1: also employed as a part time school security officer by
9:20
Speaker 1: the Pleasant Valley School District for several years until last year.
9:25
Speaker 1: This certainly seems like the kind of guy that has
9:28
Speaker 1: been thinking about this for quite some time, went through
9:31
Speaker 1: all of the steps, all of the motions, and thought
9:34
Speaker 1: he was going to commit the perfect crime. He really
9:36
Speaker 1: thought he would get away with this. Former friends told
9:40
Speaker 1: The Daily Beast that Coberger's high school years were marked
9:44
Speaker 1: by a drastic weight loss, as well as cruel bullying
9:47
Speaker 1: and a deep interest in police movies and criminology. Meanwhile,
9:51
Speaker 1: his parents battled financial issues, filing for bankruptcy the year
9:55
Speaker 1: Coburger was born and again when he was fourteen. On
9:58
Speaker 1: the second occasion, they surrendered their house and car after
10:02
Speaker 1: facing two hundred and sixty one hundred and seventy three
10:05
Speaker 1: dollars in debts and having just five hundred and twelve
10:08
Speaker 1: dollars in the bank. Record show. Now, I guess that
10:13
Speaker 1: adds a little flavor to the story, but I don't
10:15
Speaker 1: know what his parents' finances have to do with any
10:18
Speaker 1: of the rest of this. Nick McLaughlin twenty six, who
10:24
Speaker 1: was friends with Coburger in high school and vocational school,
10:27
Speaker 1: described Coburger as down to earth and overweight when they
10:30
Speaker 1: graduated junior year, but at the start of senior year,
10:34
Speaker 1: Coburger was thinner than a rail and turned aggressive. He
10:37
Speaker 1: said he'd also picked up a new hobby, taking boxing classes.
10:42
Speaker 1: He always wanted to fight somebody. He was bullying people.
10:45
Speaker 1: We started cutting them off from our friend group because
10:47
Speaker 1: he was one hundred percent a different person, McLaughlin said,
10:52
Speaker 1: adding that he had no idea what might have contributed
10:54
Speaker 1: to the change that summer. Usually when somebody changes that
10:57
Speaker 1: that drastically, there's some drug use in some sort, whether
11:02
Speaker 1: it's heroin or methmphetamine, whatever it might be. Usually that's
11:05
Speaker 1: what initiates a change like that in someone. And then
11:08
Speaker 1: you add the drastic weight loss, and it certainly could
11:11
Speaker 1: be a possibility. McLaughlin said he and Coburger would spend
11:18
Speaker 1: half the school day at Pleasant Valley High before heading
11:21
Speaker 1: to Monroe County's Vocational School, where they took classes related
11:26
Speaker 1: to heating and air conditioning work. He said Coburger also
11:29
Speaker 1: to criminal justice courses to potentially become a cop. So
11:33
Speaker 1: this dude has been fascinated with true crime his whole life,
11:37
Speaker 1: and in fact, we know he was active on Reddit,
11:40
Speaker 1: So my guess is he was following along with this
11:43
Speaker 1: investigation the whole entire time. One of those kind of people, right,
11:48
Speaker 1: that kind of psyche, And I wouldn't be shocked if
11:51
Speaker 1: you was, you know, even more intimately following along, making
11:55
Speaker 1: posts and all the rest of it. McLaughlin said that
12:00
Speaker 1: the friendship ended when Coburger began putting moves on his girlfriend.
12:04
Speaker 1: He was like reaching out to her saying, I can
12:06
Speaker 1: get us a bottle and we can hang out tonight.
12:10
Speaker 1: So all of a sudden, dude loses a little weight
12:12
Speaker 1: and he thinks he's Casanova. Another high school friend, Thomas Arntz,
12:17
Speaker 1: recalled Coburger as a bully who would point out his
12:20
Speaker 1: friend's flaws and insecurities to distract from his own struggles
12:24
Speaker 1: with his weight. Well, we all know hurt people hurt people,
12:28
Speaker 1: and since he was getting bullied, he figured, Hey, I
12:30
Speaker 1: might as well bully these dudes as well. But it
12:32
Speaker 1: shows you the kind of psyche he has. One of
12:36
Speaker 1: the things I hate the most in the whole entire
12:38
Speaker 1: world is a bully, and most bullies are cowards, no
12:42
Speaker 1: doubt about that. But this dude is one of the
12:45
Speaker 1: biggest cowards going. Imagine sneaking into somebody's house while they're
12:49
Speaker 1: sleeping and murdering them in their bed. You, my friend,
12:53
Speaker 1: are a big, gigantic, huge piece of shit coward. He
12:58
Speaker 1: did that to me all the time. Aren't told The
13:00
Speaker 1: Daily Beast he would go after my intelligence. He would
13:03
Speaker 1: basically insinuate that I'm kind of slow witted and that
13:06
Speaker 1: I'm forgetful, and that I lack the intelligence to be
13:09
Speaker 1: his friend. Nothing like a narcissist. Right, you can't be
13:14
Speaker 1: my friend. You're not smart enough, you're too fat, blah
13:16
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah blah. Aren't said he cut
13:20
Speaker 1: off the friendship with Coburger because of the incessant bullying.
13:24
Speaker 1: He said his father, a maintenance worker, and mother, a
13:26
Speaker 1: substitute teacher, were genuinely kind people, aren't, Sister Casey, and
13:31
Speaker 1: Coburger told her after graduating that he had entered rehab.
13:35
Speaker 1: So dude had a drug problem, and that would certainly
13:38
Speaker 1: explain the mood swings and the weight loss. So when
13:42
Speaker 1: you're on drugs like that and you're taking drugs to
13:44
Speaker 1: the point where you need to enter rehab. You're definitely
13:47
Speaker 1: gonna have some physical effects. You're gonna lose weight, You're
13:51
Speaker 1: not going to be thinking right, You're going to be
13:53
Speaker 1: more of an asshole, more agitated. All of that stuff
13:56
Speaker 1: goes along with being addicted to drugs. When she ran
14:01
Speaker 1: into him at a wedding in twenty seventeen, she said,
14:04
Speaker 1: it seemed like his life was picking up. She added,
14:07
Speaker 1: apparently it Wasn't. Arn't said he was shocked by the
14:10
Speaker 1: news of Coburger's arrest, but not surprised. He was mean spirited,
14:15
Speaker 1: he was a bully, he said, I never thought he
14:17
Speaker 1: would do something like that, But at the same time,
14:19
Speaker 1: it doesn't really surprise me. And as this moves on,
14:23
Speaker 1: I'm sure we're going to hear from more and more
14:24
Speaker 1: people who are going to come out and give their
14:26
Speaker 1: opinions and tell you about their experiences of knowing this
14:29
Speaker 1: man throughout the years. A former teacher of Coburger's at
14:34
Speaker 1: Pleasant Valley High School told The Daily Beast that he
14:37
Speaker 1: was a good kid and never in major trouble. She
14:40
Speaker 1: said that when she taught him in eleventh and twelfth grade,
14:42
Speaker 1: Coburger was passionate about criminal justice. He was just a
14:46
Speaker 1: regular twelfth grader, had a few friends, was a good student,
14:49
Speaker 1: She said. I thought he would become a police officer
14:52
Speaker 1: or correctional officer. So that was what he wanted to do, right,
14:55
Speaker 1: become a cop, become a correctional officer, or at least
14:58
Speaker 1: that's what he told people. He liked to watch movies
15:01
Speaker 1: about police and asked me the next day if I
15:04
Speaker 1: had seen it. It was more than a hobby for him.
15:07
Speaker 1: He was always asking questions, she said, So you know
15:10
Speaker 1: he was on the internet, slothing around and following along
15:13
Speaker 1: with this case. I am one hundred percent sure of that.
15:16
Speaker 1: At this point, she said, she's feeling sick over Coburger's
15:21
Speaker 1: alleged crimes and wonders if she could have done more
15:24
Speaker 1: for him or said something different to prevent him from
15:27
Speaker 1: traveling down a dark path. He liked school, got good grades,
15:31
Speaker 1: did well at votech had friends, and a plan to
15:34
Speaker 1: go to school for criminal justice. She said, he had
15:37
Speaker 1: his life in order. Well, you never know what's going
15:40
Speaker 1: on behind the curtains. You don't know what his psyche
15:43
Speaker 1: was behind the scenes, or his mental state, and obviously
15:46
Speaker 1: it wasn't very good. Another high school classmate, who asked
15:51
Speaker 1: not to be named, said of Coburger, I remember he
15:55
Speaker 1: was very quiet and shy. A lot of people made
15:57
Speaker 1: fun of him. I don't know if it was because
15:59
Speaker 1: he was quiet and or how heavy you was, but
16:02
Speaker 1: you could tell he was smart, organized student like all
16:06
Speaker 1: a's and really to that point. So when you're in
16:10
Speaker 1: high school and you're overweight or you have something going on,
16:13
Speaker 1: kids are brutal right, they're gonna bully you. And this
16:16
Speaker 1: guy obviously got some bullying when he was younger. But
16:19
Speaker 1: does that mean you should go off and kill people?
16:21
Speaker 1: Come on, man, really. The arrest signifies a long awaited
16:27
Speaker 1: breakthrough and a stunning turn of events after police fumble
16:30
Speaker 1: the early stages of the investigation, initially calling the killings targeted,
16:35
Speaker 1: but later conceding they had no murder weapon, no motive,
16:38
Speaker 1: no suspect, and no clear reason why the group was
16:42
Speaker 1: killed so brutally. In a statement to The Daily Beast
16:46
Speaker 1: after Coburger's arrest, Chapin's family said they were relieved this
16:49
Speaker 1: chapter is over because it provides a form of closure. However,
16:54
Speaker 1: it doesn't alter the outcome or alleviate the pain. We
16:57
Speaker 1: miss Ethan, and our family is forever changed. Man. I
17:02
Speaker 1: can't even imagine what that family's going through. Imagine being
17:05
Speaker 1: his twin brother right now and then knowing this guy's
17:08
Speaker 1: in custody. I'd be begging the prosecutors for ten minutes
17:11
Speaker 1: alone with this man. Over the last seven weeks, we
17:17
Speaker 1: stood by the Moscow Police Department, FBI and Idaho State
17:21
Speaker 1: Police confident that they would solve this crime. So when
17:25
Speaker 1: we received the phone call last night, we congratulated them
17:28
Speaker 1: for their diligent work and service. They said, today we
17:32
Speaker 1: marvel at the continued stories about Ethan and the lives
17:35
Speaker 1: he touched in his short twenty years. If we all
17:39
Speaker 1: lived and loved as Ethan did, the world would be
17:41
Speaker 1: a better place. And that's a message that definitely is true.
17:47
Speaker 1: We get way too caught up in the nonsense of life,
17:49
Speaker 1: you know, hating this, hating that, and we forget that
17:53
Speaker 1: the moment that we have right now might be the
17:55
Speaker 1: last one we ever have. And we're always looking forward
17:58
Speaker 1: to the future or what's going to come next, and
18:00
Speaker 1: the grass is always greener. But we have to realize
18:03
Speaker 1: that nothing is promised, nothing to us has promised, So
18:07
Speaker 1: every day we have to make the most of it right,
18:10
Speaker 1: and when you hear about Ethan's life and how many
18:12
Speaker 1: people he impacted, obviously he was on that road, a
18:16
Speaker 1: man that was living his life the right way. Everybody
18:19
Speaker 1: he met, everybody he came in contact with, seemed to
18:21
Speaker 1: like the kid, and his murder is going to leave
18:25
Speaker 1: a gigantic hole in a lot of lives. Fry said.
18:29
Speaker 1: Detectives received more than nineteen thousand tips and conducted three
18:32
Speaker 1: thousand interviews. Leyta County Prosecutor Bill Thompson would not say
18:37
Speaker 1: whether Coberger acted alone, but asked for anyone who knew
18:40
Speaker 1: or interacted with him to get in touch with investigators.
18:43
Speaker 1: We know now that they're saying that there wasn't an accomplice,
18:47
Speaker 1: so they're starting to work it all out a little
18:50
Speaker 1: bit more and getting all of the details in line.
18:53
Speaker 1: This is not the end of the investigation, Thompson said.
18:56
Speaker 1: In fact, this is a new beginning. He said a
18:59
Speaker 1: probable cause after David for Coburger will remain sealed until
19:03
Speaker 1: he appears in Idaho court. Coburger will be presented by
19:07
Speaker 1: a public defender and is being held without bell in Pennsylvania.
19:11
Speaker 1: Thompson said he will be under the same order once
19:14
Speaker 1: he returns to Idaho. All Right, folks, well, you can
19:18
Speaker 1: expect a lot more articles and episodes like this one
19:21
Speaker 1: as we continue to try and get an idea of
19:24
Speaker 1: who Brian Cohberger really is. All Right, everyone that's going
19:29
Speaker 1: to do it for this one. If you'd like to
19:30
Speaker 1: contact me, you can do that at Bobby Kapuchi at
19:33
Speaker 1: ProtonMail dot com. That's bo bb Y c apu Cci
19:39
Speaker 1: at proton mail dot com. You can also find me
19:42
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Bobby Underscore c ap u c c I.
19:47
Speaker 1: The link that I discussed can be found in the
19:49
Speaker 1: description box.