Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / Sticks & Stones

Transcript

Sticks & Stones · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:06
Speaker 1: Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will
0:09
Speaker 1: never hurt me. I used to get that all the
0:12
Speaker 1: time when I was a kid growing up. Did you
0:14
Speaker 1: cop that one?
0:15
Speaker 2: Okay, boomer, are you just giving away your age now?
0:18
Speaker 1: Yeah? I did kind of date myself up. Does anyone
0:20
Speaker 1: say that anymore? I have not heard it for decades.
0:23
Speaker 2: I don't think i've heard it either.
0:25
Speaker 1: Can words harm? That's our topic today. There's a brand
0:27
Speaker 1: new research article out and today is a Doctor's Desk
0:31
Speaker 1: episode where we dive into the lattice research and have
0:33
Speaker 1: a look at how research can inform our parenting. The
0:38
Speaker 1: Words Can Harm scale is a brand new instrument that's
0:43
Speaker 1: been devised by Samuel Pratt, Peyton Jones and colleagues, helping
0:48
Speaker 1: us to understand what a belief in the harm of
0:53
Speaker 1: words does or does not do for the resilience of children,
0:57
Speaker 1: young people, and even adults. Words harm. We discussed that
1:02
Speaker 1: next on the Happy Families podcast. Stay with us today.
1:08
Speaker 1: This is the Happy Families Podcast. Welcome, so good to
1:10
Speaker 1: have you along. Thank you so very much for joining
1:12
Speaker 1: us if you knew to the pod. Every Thursday on
1:15
Speaker 1: the Happy Families Podcast, we talk about brand new research
1:18
Speaker 1: research that is supposed to enlighten your mind and help
1:21
Speaker 1: you to be a better parent. We are Justin and
1:22
Speaker 1: Kylie Coulson were the parents, have six daughters and Kylie.
1:26
Speaker 1: A study that's just been published captured my attention. I
1:30
Speaker 1: saw it and I thought, oh my goodness, this is
1:32
Speaker 1: really different. It's it's not pure parenting like we normally
1:36
Speaker 1: talk about, but it has so much overlay into the
1:39
Speaker 1: environment that we create for our kids. It's called the
1:41
Speaker 1: Words Can Harm Scale, Measuring Beliefs about Harmful Speech, published
1:47
Speaker 1: in July twenty twenty six in Personality and Individual Differences.
1:51
Speaker 1: We will link to it in the show notes. I
1:53
Speaker 1: know some people are saying already it's not July twenty
1:55
Speaker 1: twenty six yet, how can I have been published? Well, it's
1:57
Speaker 1: online first, which is how I got access to it.
2:00
Speaker 1: So may ask you a question. We haven't prepped this.
2:02
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're going to say. Do you
2:04
Speaker 1: think that words can harm? Like I'm thinking before you
2:07
Speaker 1: answer of the Inexcess song? Again, I'm dating myself here.
2:11
Speaker 1: There's a line in their song Devil Inside that says
2:15
Speaker 1: words are weapons sharper than knives, So are they can
2:19
Speaker 1: they harm?
2:21
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of nuance there. But I
2:23
Speaker 2: would suggest that it's not actually the words themselves, but
2:26
Speaker 2: the weight that we put on those words that impacts
2:31
Speaker 2: how we perceive things. Yeah.
2:33
Speaker 1: Right, that makes sense. Because if if somebody calls me
2:38
Speaker 1: a name with a big smile on their face and
2:39
Speaker 1: We've just been joking around about something and I've done
2:41
Speaker 1: something dumb, and they're somewhere close to me and trusted,
2:43
Speaker 1: then I'm probably going to go you good one, because
2:45
Speaker 1: they just called me a name. Whereas if somebody cuts
2:47
Speaker 1: me off on the street and then they call me
2:48
Speaker 1: that same name. The word, I'm going to apply a
2:50
Speaker 1: different weight to the word. I'm going to put a
2:53
Speaker 1: whole lot of different meaning behind it.
2:54
Speaker 2: You Yeah. Yeah. We were talking with the kids the
2:56
Speaker 2: other night and they asked us about a word and
2:58
Speaker 2: we don't say that word and they said, well, how
3:01
Speaker 2: come because it really just means this, and I said, yeah, Unfortunately,
3:05
Speaker 2: other people have put another connotation onto it, and so
3:07
Speaker 2: when you say that word, most people don't think of that,
3:10
Speaker 2: they think of another thing, And so I think that
3:13
Speaker 2: that plays a part. I also think the relationship that
3:16
Speaker 2: exists between two people impacts the way we receive words. Yeah,
3:21
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of nuance behind it.
3:22
Speaker 1: So here's the background. American researchers, what in a measure?
3:26
Speaker 1: I think that's a really slippery idea and it's also
3:28
Speaker 1: really contentious. It's not can woods cause lasting psychological harm?
3:32
Speaker 1: We know that they can, but is there something in
3:36
Speaker 1: our value system? Is there something in our framing the
3:38
Speaker 1: way that we view the world. Like about a week
3:41
Speaker 1: and a half ago, we did that podcast episode where
3:43
Speaker 1: we talked about how we have these limiting beliefs and
3:47
Speaker 1: we apply a filter on everything that happens to us.
3:49
Speaker 1: So they're essentially saying, depending on the filter that you have,
3:52
Speaker 1: is it true or untrue that woods can and do
3:55
Speaker 1: cause lasting harm?
3:57
Speaker 2: So I think about unequal relationships. You think about it
4:00
Speaker 2: child versus an adult, and you spend all of your
4:04
Speaker 2: child's life calling them names and belittling them, they were.
4:08
Speaker 1: Goes into their heart and mind.
4:09
Speaker 2: Right, this absolutely shapes their world as opposed to two
4:14
Speaker 2: equal adults who get to make a decision on what
4:18
Speaker 2: those words mean.
4:19
Speaker 1: So let me run through a couple of the questionnaire items,
4:22
Speaker 1: and you tell me whether whether you think that these
4:27
Speaker 1: are true or not, or to the degree to which
4:29
Speaker 1: you agree with them. Okay. So one is I totally disagree,
4:31
Speaker 1: and five is I completely agree, and three is I'm neutral?
4:35
Speaker 2: Again? Are you asking me to agree for me personally? Yes,
4:38
Speaker 2: for the world at last.
4:39
Speaker 1: Now I'm asking you to divulge to share. I'll do
4:42
Speaker 1: the same if you want. Here's the first one. I
4:44
Speaker 1: could be left emotionally scarred by something I read, Well,
4:47
Speaker 1: I could be Okay, So remember the sense of which
4:50
Speaker 1: you agree with this, right, So the idea.
4:53
Speaker 2: Of I choose to be emotionally scarred. Well, ultimately, that's
4:57
Speaker 2: what it comes down to. I make a choice.
4:58
Speaker 1: You're thinking about this too hard. You do a psychology survey.
5:02
Speaker 1: You just say the first thing that comes to mind
5:03
Speaker 1: that knows thrue for you. Okay. So you're saying one
5:06
Speaker 1: one out of five do you completely disagree? Oh?
5:09
Speaker 2: Am I, I've got to give you a scale.
5:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I said to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
5:13
Speaker 1: Maybe we should do more prep for these podcast episodes.
5:16
Speaker 1: I thought this was so self explanatory. One to five,
5:19
Speaker 1: where one is completely disagree with the statement and five
5:21
Speaker 1: is I completely agree with the statement. Okay, I'll go
5:23
Speaker 1: to yeah two Okay, so I'm going to go with
5:25
Speaker 1: the one on that one? What about this one? I
5:27
Speaker 1: could be traumatized without ever being touched, just through someone's
5:30
Speaker 1: hurtful words.
5:32
Speaker 2: Four.
5:33
Speaker 1: Wow, okay, so I'm going to go with like A one.
5:35
Speaker 1: Maybe you two. If I'm being generous there for me,
5:39
Speaker 1: most things of water off a duck's back. Right. It's
5:41
Speaker 1: just if that's what you think that then you're the
5:43
Speaker 1: one who has to live with I don't actually have to. Yeah,
5:46
Speaker 1: but again, I look at it free in your space.
5:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, but if it's your mom or your dad and
5:51
Speaker 2: they've said something to you, or it's a total stranger
5:54
Speaker 2: down the street. Again, the weight that those words is
5:59
Speaker 2: an it, Harry is dependent on relationship.
6:01
Speaker 1: Here's the next one. Exposing someone to a triggering idea
6:03
Speaker 1: can seriously damage their mental health.
6:06
Speaker 2: One.
6:07
Speaker 1: I should be careful about what I say is it
6:09
Speaker 1: could permanently damage someone's emotional health.
6:12
Speaker 2: Three This is hard.
6:15
Speaker 1: Even as simple phrase can be emotionally traumatizing for someone vulnerable.
6:19
Speaker 2: Well, someone vulnerable would say five.
6:21
Speaker 1: But I'm not asking someone vulnerable. I'm asking you whether
6:23
Speaker 1: you agree with this or not. Here's the last one
6:27
Speaker 1: we'll do. There is great power in the words we
6:28
Speaker 1: choose either to heal others or to permanently harm them.
6:31
Speaker 2: Oh, this is just awful. I'm going to say five.
6:35
Speaker 1: You've gone from we started this and you're like not
6:39
Speaker 1: at all, words don't hurt, and you've finished this saying
6:42
Speaker 1: there could be permanent, lifelong damage if somebody says they.
6:46
Speaker 2: Put weight on it. Okay, I don't want to be
6:48
Speaker 2: that person.
6:50
Speaker 1: So again, you're highlighting the weight that a person might
6:52
Speaker 1: put on the much you're applying the filter. And this
6:56
Speaker 1: is a question about what you believe, not what other
6:58
Speaker 1: people believe. And this is why these studies are so
7:01
Speaker 1: fascinating and so important.
7:03
Speaker 2: I'm really struggling to put this into context because if
7:05
Speaker 2: you're asking me, I am asking you, but I'm thinking
7:10
Speaker 2: about other people as I'm answering. It's really hard to
7:13
Speaker 2: separate myself from other people.
7:15
Speaker 1: So I am as well as I'm asking the questions.
7:17
Speaker 1: I'm thinking. I know people who I'm going to use
7:19
Speaker 1: the term fragile, I'm not using in a denigrading or
7:21
Speaker 1: derogatory way or in yeah, they've had.
7:23
Speaker 2: Really difficult life circumstances that have left them feeling really tender, fragile.
7:31
Speaker 1: And therefore they have felt like they have been permanently
7:33
Speaker 1: harmed because I know that I've said things that have
7:36
Speaker 1: left people feeling that way. It actually feels quite awful.
7:39
Speaker 1: But I'm also thinking about it because the filter that
7:43
Speaker 1: I have is that words don't harm. That's what we
7:45
Speaker 1: think about the words later that causes the harm. That's
7:47
Speaker 1: exactly right, But that's the filter that I have. Therefore,
7:50
Speaker 1: this is why people will say when I give my
7:53
Speaker 1: presentations that sometimes I can be a little direct. I
7:55
Speaker 1: can sometimes trample on the sensitivities of other people. I
7:58
Speaker 1: don't mean to, but I kind of think I just
8:00
Speaker 1: giving you really good information here. What you do with
8:01
Speaker 1: it is going to be up to you. But some
8:03
Speaker 1: people will internalize it, they'll carry it with them. They'll say,
8:06
Speaker 1: I can't ever go and listen to Justin Causon speak
8:09
Speaker 1: again because he said that really harmful thing that paralyzed me,
8:13
Speaker 1: that traumatized me, that made me feel unsafe.
8:17
Speaker 2: I think that everyone will have been in an experience
8:19
Speaker 2: where you've been in a conversation with a group of
8:21
Speaker 2: people and someone has said something and ninety five percent
8:25
Speaker 2: of you are kind of like, yeah, I agree, and
8:27
Speaker 2: then one person is completely mortified, emotionally distraught, and really
8:33
Speaker 2: really upset by what's being shared. And that goes back
8:37
Speaker 2: to that original conversation that we started with. It comes
8:40
Speaker 2: down to the weight that I choose to put on
8:42
Speaker 2: put on those words. So you put me on the spot,
8:45
Speaker 2: and it was really hard to separate because if it
8:48
Speaker 2: was me, after learning all the things that I've learned,
8:52
Speaker 2: I'm responsible. I'm the one who's responsible for how I
8:56
Speaker 2: respond and how I perceive the words that are coming
8:59
Speaker 2: at me to decide. But my experience with other people
9:03
Speaker 2: is that it's not that easy. So what did they
9:06
Speaker 2: actually find?
9:08
Speaker 1: First of all, the scale was very, very robust, really
9:12
Speaker 1: reliable over time, really what we call internally consistent, which
9:16
Speaker 1: means that when you answer one way with one thing,
9:19
Speaker 1: you generally answer the same way with all of the things.
9:21
Speaker 1: Of course, you were a little bit different there because
9:23
Speaker 1: of the way that you were doing that. And it
9:25
Speaker 1: was also meaningfully connected to a whole cluster of other
9:27
Speaker 1: traits and attributes, which was really interesting.
9:30
Speaker 2: Maybe I have multiple personalities.
9:33
Speaker 1: You might know who scored really high on this girls women, yes, yes,
9:39
Speaker 1: but it wasn't just females. It was people who believe
9:42
Speaker 1: that woods cause serious harm tend to be younger female
9:46
Speaker 1: and more politically liberal, whereas we're auty the old men.
9:51
Speaker 1: It's just like tough enough, right, that's kind of the idea.
9:55
Speaker 2: I watched this at the dinner table when we have
9:57
Speaker 2: all of our kids over and we have our son
9:59
Speaker 2: in law, and outside of you, he's the only other
10:02
Speaker 2: male influence we've had in the home for a really
10:04
Speaker 2: long time, and every now and again he just kind
10:08
Speaker 2: of shuts everything down really fast, really hard, very concise,
10:12
Speaker 2: and the girls will kind of.
10:14
Speaker 1: Feelings be damn, yeah, yeah.
10:16
Speaker 2: And he's not actually being unkind, it's just that's just
10:20
Speaker 2: how he sees it. Whereas as women, we're constantly worried
10:23
Speaker 2: about how other people are going to perceive us, how
10:26
Speaker 2: they're going to respond, whether or not we're going to
10:29
Speaker 2: upset them. So I can see how that plays out.
10:33
Speaker 1: So the researchers also found that those people who scored
10:35
Speaker 1: really highly on the words can harm scale more likely
10:39
Speaker 1: to support trigger warnings, safe spaces, and restrictions on controversial speech.
10:45
Speaker 1: They also score higher on empathy, and they score higher
10:48
Speaker 1: on intellectual humility, but they also score higher on something
10:53
Speaker 1: called moral grand standing and a tendency to see themselves
10:56
Speaker 1: as victims, So I thought that was really really interesting.
10:59
Speaker 1: Now the uncomfortable and most fascinating part of all of this,
11:03
Speaker 1: they also report significantly worse mental health. So they're more
11:08
Speaker 1: likely to experience anxiety, depression, less resilience, and more emotional disregulation,
11:15
Speaker 1: which I find really really curious. So after break, what
11:20
Speaker 1: I want to talk about Before we get the break? Quickly,
11:23
Speaker 1: the researchers themselves said this, let's not draw causal conclusions.
11:27
Speaker 1: It's correlational data. But there's three possibilities for why these
11:31
Speaker 1: results are there. As you've already said, people who have
11:33
Speaker 1: been genuinely feel like they've been harmed by speech. They
11:37
Speaker 1: develop it through experience. That is, this person said this,
11:39
Speaker 1: this person said this, this happened over here. I'm now
11:42
Speaker 1: carrying the burden of that. I can't let it go,
11:44
Speaker 1: so that becomes the filter through which they see the world.
11:47
Speaker 1: Because they haven't processed it effectively and been able to
11:49
Speaker 1: move on, it's really gotten into their psyche. Secondly, they've
11:53
Speaker 1: said maybe it's actually the belief itself that makes people
11:55
Speaker 1: more psychologically fragile, Like if I believe that words can harm,
11:58
Speaker 1: then I'm going to be a more fragile person. And
12:00
Speaker 1: the third thing that they introduced as an idea is
12:03
Speaker 1: that there might be some other variable like just not
12:06
Speaker 1: being a very resilient person or being a highly neurotic
12:08
Speaker 1: person that could drive both. Realistically, it's probably a combination
12:11
Speaker 1: of all three. So after the break, even though we've
12:13
Speaker 1: spent way too long on the study itself, isn't science fun?
12:17
Speaker 1: Isn't the science great? After the break, we're going to
12:18
Speaker 1: talk about what it means for us as parents raising
12:21
Speaker 1: kids and an environment where they're consistently being told that
12:24
Speaker 1: words can harm, and how we can help them to
12:27
Speaker 1: be resilient in the face of words that can sometimes,
12:31
Speaker 1: if not harm, certainly hurt. Where back it's the Happy
12:41
Speaker 1: Families podcast talking about the Words Can Harm scale, which
12:44
Speaker 1: will link to in the show notes, a brand new
12:46
Speaker 1: research instrument looking at how the filt that we put
12:49
Speaker 1: on the words that we hear might affect our resilience
12:52
Speaker 1: or our children's resilience. I think that there's a whole
12:55
Speaker 1: lot here, Kylie, that is impactful on the way we
12:57
Speaker 1: raise kids to be really resilient and avoid anxiety and
13:01
Speaker 1: depression and so many of the mental health challenges that
13:03
Speaker 1: we're seeing.
13:04
Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to minimize your chatter.
13:07
Speaker 1: Right here, You're going to minimize We're going.
13:09
Speaker 2: To minimize your chatter. Because we could talk about this
13:11
Speaker 2: all day, the sounds of it. What are your top
13:14
Speaker 2: three things that are going to help parents the most?
13:16
Speaker 1: You're so funny, all right?
13:18
Speaker 2: So and no achieving?
13:20
Speaker 1: You know how what you've been by adding extras in? Yes, yeah,
13:24
Speaker 1: you know how. I'm always banging on about those basic
13:26
Speaker 1: psychological needs competence relatedness, autonomy, a feeling that I'm in
13:30
Speaker 1: control of my life, a feeling that I'm capable of
13:32
Speaker 1: doing stuff, and a feeling that I've got a strong
13:34
Speaker 1: sense of connection. I feel as though if children feel
13:39
Speaker 1: like they can handle what the world throws at them,
13:41
Speaker 1: they're going to be more resilient. Right. That's something that
13:43
Speaker 1: I am teaching day in and day out. And so
13:46
Speaker 1: when we signal to kids, whether it's implicit or explicit,
13:48
Speaker 1: whether we're saying to them, if we say certain words
13:52
Speaker 1: or ideas are so powerful that they might break them,
13:55
Speaker 1: what we're doing is we're communicating fragility rather than capability
13:59
Speaker 1: or capacity. We're essentially saying, like I started the podcast,
14:04
Speaker 1: six and stones may break my bones, but words will
14:06
Speaker 1: never hurt me. We're saying the opposite. We're saying words
14:10
Speaker 1: become your reality, and words can harm you, and so
14:12
Speaker 1: you need to be careful that you're not surrounding yourself
14:14
Speaker 1: with words that are harmful. And I think there's also
14:19
Speaker 1: just I guess there's part B because I'm not allowed
14:22
Speaker 1: to cheat. There's an idea called concept creep, and I
14:28
Speaker 1: think that it really applies here. The researchers talked about it.
14:31
Speaker 1: They said there's a tendency for definitions of harm to
14:34
Speaker 1: expand over time, so that more and more experiences get
14:39
Speaker 1: categorized as potentially traumatic. So when post traumatic stress disorder
14:43
Speaker 1: was first discussed back in the seventies, brighter that was
14:47
Speaker 1: called shell shock after World War Two. It was a
14:50
Speaker 1: very very clear definition, and people only experience post traumatic
14:54
Speaker 1: stress disorder if they'd been in horrific things. And we've
15:00
Speaker 1: allowed concept creep too, because we want to be compassionate
15:03
Speaker 1: and empathic for people who have been through things that
15:05
Speaker 1: aren't quite as terrific. But it's still horrible, and I'm
15:07
Speaker 1: not downplaying the horrible horribleness of them at all. But
15:10
Speaker 1: what happens is that the word trauma begins to encapsulate
15:13
Speaker 1: more and more and more and more, and so I
15:16
Speaker 1: think that there's genuine debate about whether it's good to
15:19
Speaker 1: raise important awareness or if we're lowering children's threshold for distress.
15:24
Speaker 1: And I think the data in this study seems to
15:27
Speaker 1: suggest that we are actually lowering children's threshold for coping
15:30
Speaker 1: with distress. We are making them less resilient because the
15:34
Speaker 1: childhood grows up hearing that kind of language could really
15:37
Speaker 1: damage you. They're literally being handed a framework that makes
15:41
Speaker 1: them a potential victim in kind of any rude or
15:46
Speaker 1: uncomfortable or slightly distressing encounter. And I know how bad
15:51
Speaker 1: and rough that sounds when I'm saying it, but the
15:54
Speaker 1: reality is that's the filter, and therefore it becomes a
15:58
Speaker 1: self fulfilling prophecy.
16:00
Speaker 2: I think so often the hurtful words that come at us,
16:04
Speaker 2: especially in today's day and age, with social media being
16:07
Speaker 2: such a huge part of our kids' lives. So often
16:11
Speaker 2: the things that come to us that have I guess
16:14
Speaker 2: negative connotation to them are generally speaking from people we
16:18
Speaker 2: don't even know. Yeah, yeah, And I remember hearing a
16:22
Speaker 2: podcast once. I can't remember the origin of it, but
16:24
Speaker 2: it was just the acknowledgment. If you would not ask
16:27
Speaker 2: for advice from that person.
16:28
Speaker 1: Why would you take their criticism?
16:29
Speaker 2: Why would you take their criticism? Why would you let
16:31
Speaker 2: that impact you? And that has had a really really
16:34
Speaker 2: profound impact on me. And when our kids come home
16:37
Speaker 2: and they talk to us about different things that have happened,
16:39
Speaker 2: I literally just remind them. I'm like, so, would you
16:42
Speaker 2: actually go to that person if you're in trouble? Would
16:44
Speaker 2: you ask them for you for the how or their opinion?
16:49
Speaker 1: I should just highlight here this doesn't mean that words
16:51
Speaker 1: don't matter like words do matter. The question is that
16:56
Speaker 1: there's a really big difference between words that are cruel
16:58
Speaker 1: and unkind, nasty and the belief that words can permanently
17:03
Speaker 1: harm you. And you would have noted when I went
17:05
Speaker 1: through those questions our items, they were very much saying words,
17:07
Speaker 1: these words will permanently cause harm, trauma, damage. And the
17:11
Speaker 1: reason they put the word permanently in is because all
17:14
Speaker 1: of us walk away from an unkind encounter smarting, all
17:18
Speaker 1: of us walk away wincing and going gosh, that was horrible.
17:22
Speaker 2: Isn't it interesting though, that if you are in a
17:24
Speaker 2: position where you are striving for growth and learning, that
17:29
Speaker 2: you can look back on a situation years later and
17:32
Speaker 2: see it so differently.
17:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you absolutely can. There are simire things that
17:37
Speaker 1: I want to run through when we're out of time,
17:39
Speaker 1: So can I run through them really fast? I promise
17:41
Speaker 1: e'lly quick. One of the things that really stood out
17:43
Speaker 1: to me is that empthy people who are high on
17:45
Speaker 1: empathy scored high on the words can harm scale. So
17:48
Speaker 1: that's that's a plus, Like, we don't want to downplay empathy,
17:53
Speaker 1: and you would struggling with the questionnaire items because you
17:56
Speaker 1: have high levels of empathy, whereas for me, I'm I
18:00
Speaker 1: have less empathic. I care a great deal about people,
18:03
Speaker 1: but I kind of don't get caught up and all
18:05
Speaker 1: this stuff. I just have that little bit less empathy,
18:08
Speaker 1: I guess, And so for me it's much easy to
18:10
Speaker 1: say one to one one to that kind of thing,
18:12
Speaker 1: whereas you're kind of like, oh, but how they feeling?
18:15
Speaker 1: But I also I think it's worth highlighting. The same
18:18
Speaker 1: people also score higher on moral grand standing and interpersonal victimhood,
18:24
Speaker 1: which means that concerned from other people's feelings can kind
18:28
Speaker 1: of tip into an identity that's built around sensitivity and harm.
18:31
Speaker 1: And I don't think that's helpful. We want we want
18:35
Speaker 1: to help kids to feel with others, not just for them.
18:39
Speaker 1: Like feeling with someone means that you're sitting in that
18:42
Speaker 1: discomfort with them, and that requires resilience. Feeling for someone
18:46
Speaker 1: can collapse into avoidance because I need to protect you,
18:49
Speaker 1: or I need to protect myself, or it just means
18:51
Speaker 1: that I click every social campaign online so that I
18:55
Speaker 1: can say that I'm standing with this person and that
18:57
Speaker 1: person everyone else. I don't think that's helpful for values.
19:01
Speaker 1: And the last one that I'm going to mention is
19:02
Speaker 1: that the paper asks this question. It basically says, does
19:05
Speaker 1: shielding people from difficult words and ideas protect them or
19:08
Speaker 1: does it prime them for more distress when contact with
19:11
Speaker 1: those words is inevitable? And I think the research here,
19:15
Speaker 1: specifically the research on anxiety sensitivity, which correlates really highly
19:19
Speaker 1: with the words can harm scale. It tells us that
19:23
Speaker 1: anxiety sensitivity is the fear of anxiety itself. That is,
19:27
Speaker 1: it's a belief that feeling anxious is dangerous, and that's
19:30
Speaker 1: been scientifically shown it just amplifies anxiety disorders. So I
19:37
Speaker 1: think the take home message is really simple, very much
19:40
Speaker 1: contested territory Some see the expansion of harm awareness as
19:46
Speaker 1: an overdue recognition that people really are suffering, and others
19:51
Speaker 1: see it as a driver of fragility. Both are probably
19:54
Speaker 1: partly right. I definitely lean in one direction more than
19:57
Speaker 1: the other, but in fairness, both are probably partly right.
20:02
Speaker 1: What we need to do as parents, though, is take
20:06
Speaker 1: language seriously, but build kids who aren't at the mercy
20:11
Speaker 1: of that language.
20:13
Speaker 2: For me, it's actually really important for them to recognize
20:17
Speaker 2: that the way they perceive the words is actually on them.
20:22
Speaker 2: They get to decide and determine the weight of those words.
20:27
Speaker 2: That's theirs. So when I have an interaction with somebody
20:31
Speaker 2: that leaves me feeling troubled and hurt. While it would
20:35
Speaker 2: be lovely to think in a perfect world that people
20:38
Speaker 2: would say nice things all the time, how I respond
20:41
Speaker 2: to that is mine. That's mine. And if I want
20:45
Speaker 2: to carry that baggage of hurt and anger around for
20:47
Speaker 2: twenty years, that's on me. That has nothing to do
20:51
Speaker 2: with the person who said the words. Yeah.
20:53
Speaker 1: Yeah. But we've got to help our children and people
20:55
Speaker 1: generally to be able to process this stuff so that
20:59
Speaker 1: they're not carrying it, because that's a heavy load to
21:00
Speaker 1: carry for five minutes, let alone twenty five years.
21:04
Speaker 2: But so many of us choose right, we choose it,
21:07
Speaker 2: we choose to carry it.
21:08
Speaker 1: Maybe we should do another episode on how to let
21:10
Speaker 1: go of that sort of stuff. It's sometimes required some
21:13
Speaker 1: really hard work, especially when somebody close, somebody that you trusted,
21:17
Speaker 1: who's hurt you. The study will be linked in the
21:19
Speaker 1: show notes. Hopefully there's a bunch of ideas in here
21:21
Speaker 1: to get you talking to the kids around the table
21:24
Speaker 1: about whether words can harm or not. The Famili's podcast
21:28
Speaker 1: is produced by Justin Rulant from Bridge. Medium Happens provides
21:31
Speaker 1: our admin and other support for more information about making
21:34
Speaker 1: your family happier visitors at happy families dot com dot
21:36
Speaker 1: au