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Watkins Glen: Where Formula One Met Small-Town Soul · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

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Break Fix's History of Motorsports series is brought to you in part
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by the International Motor Racing Research Center, as well as the
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Society of Automotive Historians, the Watkins Glen Area Chamber of
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Commerce, and the Argo Singer Family
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Formula one at Watkins Glen Sporting Gentleman in a small
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town by Dr. James Miller.
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When James Miller attended F1 races at the Glen during the 1970s, it was for fun.
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Now they have become the focus of social and historical analysis.
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In fact, the 20 years of Formula One at Watkins Glen from 1961
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to 1980 are worthy of subject.
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They afford a case study of the transitional racing era between the
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near amateurism of the 1950s and the increasingly commercial globalizing
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periods that followed most especially Formula One at Watkins Glen is anomalous.
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How do you explain a Finger Lakes village hosting the mostly European
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pinnacle of Motorsport and be remembered by Jackie Stewart as
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the most nostalgic US Grand Prix?
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That Formula One ever had?
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One answer is the unusual collaboration between Patricia Enthusiasts,
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community leaders and the volunteer spirit of a small town, an effort
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that began in 1948 with the first race through local streets and roads.
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Dr. James Miller is a professor emeritus of communications at Hampshire
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College, and a former member of the graduate faculty at UMass Amherst, a
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senior researcher at the I-M-R-R-C.
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He's a member of the International Motor Press Association.
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Our next presenter is James Miller, who's gonna be talking
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about Formula One, a Watkins Glen Sporting gentleman in a small town.
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The 20 year history of the US Grand Prix at Watkins Glen was
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bookended by two dramatic events.
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The first was the approval in August of 61 for the event to take place, leaving only
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six weeks before the October race date.
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The second occurred in the spring of 1981 when Formula One at the
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Glen was removed from the racing calendar due to its inability to pay
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participants from the previous race.
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A year later, the track was sold at a bankruptcy auction.
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Over time, it became clear that what made both the first race possible and the
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apparently sudden demise inexplicable, was the remarkable collaboration between
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organizers and Glen residents, local civic leaders and racers found common
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cause with villagers of all sorts.
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To bring about an annual international extravaganza that drew hundreds
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of thousands of spectators to what remains the longest running venue
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of Formula One Grand Prix racing.
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In the US three times, formula One drivers voted the Glen the
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best organized race of a season.
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It was cooperation between these two distinct groups.
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Organizers and local residents that made it all possible.
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The truth of this familiar claim is not denied by adding a paradoxical
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complication that in the end, the group's differences were stronger
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than their shared interests.
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This may have been discovered only too late, and that's
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what I'd like to argue today.
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In 1969, camera and Argetsinger proposed to the Watkins Glen
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Grand Prix Corporation that he and private investors buy the track.
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In order to finance the continuing improvements necessary to hold Grand
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Prix racing, his proposal was rejected and Argo Singer left the organization.
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This, it turned out was the beginning of the end, even though
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a full decade of racing remained.
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My view is that Argo Singer and his allies understood road racing in general.
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And the Grand Prix in particular, in ways ultimately at odds with local members of
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the corporation and maybe some villagers.
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I'm going to label these two groups, sporting gentlemen
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and residents of a small town.
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My point is not to assign blame, but to offer an explanation that
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goes beyond mere finances for what many of us see as a tragic outcome.
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Sporting gentlemen brought an orientation to road racing that had
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relatively little to do with the geographic location of a circuit or
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its benefits to a local community.
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They were primarily about masculine competition in the context of
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highly ritualized upper class games.
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With serious but amateur traditions.
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These were learned in prep schools, private colleges, and Ivy League
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universities and yacht clubs and country clubs, and in sports like
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golf, dressage, sailing, and the like.
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They were cosmopolitans attracted to the involvement of European cars and drivers.
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In American racing, many possessed the business savvy of wealthy people
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and had a feel for both the scale of capitalization and political skills
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required to pursue road racing.
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Early road racing circuits were necessarily located in the rural
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countryside, of course, but were nearly always near metropolitan areas.
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Where sporting gentlemen lived Lime Rock in 56.
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Well, that's New York Bridge, Hampton 57, the other side of New York City
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and Elkhart Lake 59 in Chicago.
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Small town people were less likely to be racers were, by definition
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rooted in their village, happy to volunteer their efforts that in turn
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produced benefits for the community.
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Maybe they were possessive about keeping the Grand Prix synonymous with the people
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of Watkins Glen through maintaining what they saw as local control of the event.
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Here's how I'll try to make my case.
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First, the small town.
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This will necessarily be a broad brush treatment of the American small
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town, especially in the second half of the 20th century with reference
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to the Glenn and a few key local organizers of different sorts.
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Next, a presentation of sociologists, Digby bolt sells sporting gentleman
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notion, and three organizer racer biographies that I think illustrated.
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Third, a two brief account of the fatal collision between sporting
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gentleman's sensibility and small town attitude that ultimately brought an
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end to Formula One at Watkins Glen.
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And lastly, some counterfactual.
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Historical fun, focusing on camera and aring, and the recent development
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of Formula One Grand Prix Racing.
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The American small town has a double identity, one mythical
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and the other historical.
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The first is profoundly nostalgic, a celebration of an idealized past.
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The other is more complicated.
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One historical fact is at the turn of the 20th century, about three quarters
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of Americans lived in small towns.
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Perhaps out of this widespread experience.
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Grew an outside imaginary significance.
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In fact, a study in the twenties and thirties, fiction in widely circulating
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magazines found that farms and small towns were depicted as enjoying a way of
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life whose essential goodness contrasted with the evils lurking in big cities.
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But as early as the 1880s.
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There was concern for the future of small towns that were bypassed by
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commercial roots or emerging industries.
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And around the time of those magazine stories, the census reported that for
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the first time, city dwellers constituted the majority of the US population,
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especially during the post-war period.
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The rural small town was under existential threat, industrialized agriculture
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transformation into bedroom communities.
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Outmigration in search of better opportunities.
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Greatest population loss occurred from the thirties through the seventies.
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One estimate is that between 1950 and 1970 towns the size of the Glen lost one
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third of their local retail businesses.
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In the early fifties, one of the most important American community studies
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took place nearby in the wonderfully named Small Town of Candor, New York.
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Arthur Viic and Joseph Besman described a kind of collective delusion that candor
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was actually the master of its own fate.
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They also revealed a shared illusion of democracy when actually a limited
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number of influential citizens called the shots, and when church members
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organized most of the town's public life.
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They termed the crisis of the small town modernization, by which they
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meant an often unwelcome intrusion of outside influences that were
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imposing new ways of living.
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These inescapable authorities ran the gamut from radio and TV
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to national retailers to state level offices of education.
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Watkins Glen would not have been immune from these unsettling dynamics around
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the time that road racing arrived.
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Part of racing's allure all the way through the F1 years was surely a
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manageable antidote to forces that threatened a deeply established,
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rewarding small town way of life.
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Watkins, as it was long called.
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Shares the features of many other small rural towns of
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upstate New York for decades.
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However, schooner and steam ferry boats crisscrossed Seneca
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Lake, facilitating local travel and trade and bringing visitors.
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By the end of the 19th century, the boats had been replaced largely by the
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railroad, which then brought international guests to the curative waters of the very
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grand Glen Spring sanatorium and hotel.
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Next door to its 300 acres.
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New York established a state park in 1906.
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Its centerpiece is a 400 foot deep gorge.
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That, along with a score of waterfalls, was given pride of place
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when the town literally changed its name in the 1920s to Watkins Glen.
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During the Grand Prix years, the Glen's population was less than
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3000, except for the unusual production of salt from brine wells.
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The local economy depended on tourism, agriculture, and retail.
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The first bank was built in 1922, the first cinema.
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Two years later, the municipal building, A New Deal project housed the fire
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and police departments and the mayor's office, the court, and also the library.
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Another depression area intervention was the Civilian Conservation
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Corps, which established several local camps where young men work to
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improve the state park, making it more accessible and more beautiful.
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Jean Argetsinger in her history of the local Catholic church says that
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the Erie Canal and the local Mong canal, and later the railroads brought
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waves of immigrants to the Glen to work as loaders of coal barges, stone
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masons, farmers, and at the hotel jobs.
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First the Irish, and then in larger numbers, Italians joined the descendants
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of the early British settlers.
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The primacy of tourism, a seasonal economy that encouraged openness to
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visitors was threatened when the luxurious Glen Springs founded in 1890, closed
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its doors during a war after Cornell briefly housed GI Bill students there.
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It became a Catholic seminary in high school for 20 years
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and then was abandoned.
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Perhaps the loss of the resort was an incentive to try to extend
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tourism into the autumn, which was a rationale for October road
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racing and, and later Formula One.
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During the fifties and sixties, regional tourism promotion
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became an organized effort using Finger Lakes to brand the area.
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It emphasized boating and camping and stressed the ease of transportation
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afforded by the new interstate highways, Cornell University,
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even established and Office of Regional Resources and Development.
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Here are biographical sketches of five men with different sorts of local
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identities who were involved in racing.
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Donald Brubaker brought his five children to the Glen in
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the forties to start a new life.
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After the death of his wife, he had connections here, new Yorker cartoonist,
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Sam Cobe, a friend of Cameron Argetsinger, who lived in the village was his cousin.
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Brubaker was a graduate of Penn's Law School, but he became
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proprietor of the Seneca Lodge, whose food he grew organically.
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The lodge was famous for housing, F1 teams, and its
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raucous post-war celebration.
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Active in promoting local tourism.
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Brubaker became president of the Chamber of Commerce.
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Malcolm Curry came to the Glen from Massachusetts and with a partner
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bought local newspapers beginning in 1951, which they published until 1987.
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He later succeeded Argetsinger as executive director of
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the Grand Prix Corpor.
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Henry Valent was the son of Italian immigrants and a native of the Glen.
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He graduated from Cornell and its law school later establishing
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his own practice in town.
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He was co-owner of the local AM and FM radio stations and like other leaders, he
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was active in a number of organizations from the Chamber of Commerce to the
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Board of Education and the area hospital.
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Liston Kuhn was born in a rural hamlet near the Glen.
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His father was a farmer and male carrier and his mother, a teacher.
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After a short period following the war teaching school, he attended Cornell's law
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school and he practiced law in the Glen.
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Later he was elected district attorney and county judge, and served for
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decades in the Air Force Reserve and was active in the county Republican
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party and other organizations.
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Joe Fran's parents were Italian immigrants.
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He and his wife Helen, built tourist cabins during the late thirties
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on the family farm along the lake.
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After the war, they established the Glen Motor Inn, which featured
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40 rooms or restaurant and a pool.
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It became a storied lodging place for Grand Prix teams and operated
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until just a couple of years ago.
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They donated land that became the local golf course.
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Where Joe taught Formula One drivers how to play the game, he too was president of
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the chamber and their son Vic was himself a racer and a racing team owner, sporting
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gentlemen, is Digby Bolt sells term for the tradition of gentleman amateurs, upper
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class Protestants, mostly who followed conduct imported from aristocratic
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England at its core is the idea that games demanded loyalty, self-discipline, and
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a sense of command and accomplishment.
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Their code of conduct stress quote, winning is less important than
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playing hard and fairly in the states.
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The newly formed national upper class of the 19th century steel and railroad
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economy imbued these values in its sons by means of Episcopal boarding schools in
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New England and the originally Calvinist colleges of Harvard, Yale, and Princeton.
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So to say, sporting and gentlemen, implies social position.
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Competitive, but rule abating, masculinity, a deeply socialized
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sense of how to play well, certain valued games, and a shared sense of
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camaraderie among the select few.
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Both cell even suggests that underpinning this orientation is the
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unstated view that sporting gentlemen possess the natural fitness to rule.
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Three biographies of sporting gentlemen capture its varieties.
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The closing weeks of the 19 39 40 New York World's Fair featured a
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race of 18, mostly European sports cars, over a seven 10th mile circuit
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between the exhibition buildings.
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The winner who averaged 35 miles an hour was 26-year-old Frank Griswold Jr.
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Months before he owned a car that ran in the Indy 500, and in 1948, Griswold
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won the first road race at Watkins Glen.
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He ran a machine shop outside Philadelphia and became the North
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American importer for Alpha Romeo Weber Carburetors and Nty Steering wheels.
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Frank Griswold Jr. Grew up on the family's 34 acre estate
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on Philadelphia's main line.
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In Harvard's class of 18 94, 20 fifth anniversary report.
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His father identified himself as a retired banker and broker, and
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his club as the Racket Club, which today says, quote, continues to
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be one of the most prestigious private city clubs in North America.
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Griswold's parents and grandparents appeared in the 1917 social register.
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They were said to season in Bar Harbor and Newport of Palm Beach and in Europe.
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Finally, it seems likely that the extensive Wikipedia entry for the Griswold
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family refers to Frank's relatives who first arrived from England in 1639.
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William Milliken Jr. Was born in 1911 in Old Town Maine, a town known
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for canoe building and paper making.
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He and his buddies entertained themselves by constructing various kinds
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of vehicles, including an airplane.
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Milliken's academic performance at the neighboring University of Maine.
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Persuaded his parents to find money for two years at MIT, where
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he in 1934, earned a degree in aeronautical engineering and math.
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His long life.
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He lived to 101 was filled with remarkable achievements.
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His work for Boeing carrying out high altitude test flights
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led to flight dynamic research at Cornell's lab in Buffalo.
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This soon expanded to research with GM on automobile control
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dynamics and passive safety.
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Two of his books on race car dynamics and chassis design are
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considered classic references.
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Milliken was an early official at the SECA.
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With Cornell colleagues, he designed the Glenn's first permanent track
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and he served as chief steward at the Grand Prix races competing
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in more than 100 road races.
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Included campaigning a 1932 four-wheel drive Miller at Pikes Peak.
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Carl Luson named him Mr.
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Supernatural.
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Cameron Azinger was born in 1921 in Youngstown, Ohio.
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His father, James Cameron, or jc, the first became general counsel
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and vice president of the Steel Company, Youngstown Sheet and Tube.
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He was born and raised near Watkins Glen where his parents had established
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a farm in the late 19th century.
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Cameron was the only child of wealthy civically engaged parents, both of
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whom graduated from Cornell, where his father also attended law school.
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JC collected cars and own a number of packers.
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He taught Cameron at age 12 to drive the country roads around the glen, where
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they had a summer place on the lake.
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Shortly before his 20th birthday, Cameron became co-owner of a
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Youngstown area Packer dealership, which closed a couple of years later
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when he and his partner were drafted.
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What is now Youngstown State University grew out of a 19th century YMCA school.
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In the thirties and forties, it became Youngstown College and severed.
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Its YMCA roots.
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It was very local, a commuter school, financially supported by the president of
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Youngstown Sheet and Tube among others, and prominent people were members of
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its board, including JC Argetsinger.
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It was the logical place for Cameron to attend after the war
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when he was married with children.
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If he hoped to become a lawyer like his father, Youngstown College would've
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given him the necessary undergraduate degree without complicating his
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life or perhaps taxing his mind.
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Cameron's dream of racing on the streets and roads of Watkins Glen
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began about the time of his graduation.
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He would spread magazines on the living room floor to explore
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different possible circuits.
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Maybe with thoughts of the Targa Florio and the Vanderbilt
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Cup swirling in his mind.
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Cars were a lifelong infatuation and Cameron's daily drivers
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were Packards and Cadillacs.
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He also owned an MGTC, an Aller J two a Bugatti Type 35, a Healy
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Silverstone, and a Mercedes 300 SL.
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In 1970, when the Watkins Glen Grand Prix Corporation rejected by one
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vote, his offer to buy the circuit.
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Cameron resigned as Executive director.
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A post he'd held since 1955 replaced by Malcolm Curry, who had been press officer.
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Argo Singer, soon left the corporation.
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His son, Michael, writes that Henry Valent pressured the board
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to vote against the proposal.
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Vol also falsely claimed that the race might be removed from Watkins Glen.
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During the late twenties, the Grand Prix Corporation embarked
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on projects to improve the track.
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These included a 4,000 seat grandstand, expanding the pit lane facilities,
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and enlarging the Kendall Tech Center.
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After the vote to retain nonprofit ownership, still more was done to
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modernize the track at very great expense.
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The circuit was lengthened by a mile and widened, and two
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new buildings were constructed.
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About seven miles of armco.
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Barriers were built close to the circuit.
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This design later contributed to two driver deaths in 73 and 74.
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The GP driver's Association demanded the barriers be moved back from the circuit,
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but the improvement project had already been funded by a $3.5 million bond, plus
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the expense of another million dollars.
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Today, these figures would total a debt of $36 million.
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What was probably an early, slightly desperate sign of financial problems
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along with unpaid bills took place in July of 1973 when the track was
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rented for a weekend rock concert.
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Summer Jam.
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Featuring big names like the band sold 125,000 advanced tickets.
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Eventually, attendance doubled the size of Woodstock to 600,000.
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Traffic was backed up for scores of miles and services were overwhelmed.
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Afterward, local people filed more than 20 lawsuits against the corporation.
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It's felt that summer jam damaged the collaborative spirit
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between track and village.
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During this time, Bernie Ecclestone's, formula One Constructors Association
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flexed its muscle against the FIA over regulatory and commercial issues and
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prize money awarded by organizers.
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It was a tumultuous time in the sport that put additional unprecedented
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pressure on Watkins Glenn.
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After he won the final F1 race at the Glen Alan Jones, who was also that year's
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champion, said quote, sure the Glen is a nice scenic track, but that doesn't mean
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we should have to live in the Stone Age.
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Henry Valent admitted that the race failed to break even during its last four years.
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Two accountants separately reviewed finances and both concluded
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that conventional accounting practices had not been followed.
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This led Cameron Ainger to remark quote, why no one has blown the whistle
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on this business Is hard to say.
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Adding that in his last year of the corporation, the race earned
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a hundred thousand dollars profit.
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Reflecting on the situation, I'm inclined to sum it up by employing
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two metaphors that I used last year.
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For sporting gentlemen, the Grand Prix was like a traveling circus.
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It came from far away places once a year bringing exotic entertainment
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and displaying advanced technologies.
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Often seen.
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For the first time, there was danger in the activities,
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which were often death defying.
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Its visit was briefed but exhilarating.
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It had no local link except to the fairgrounds it paid
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to use, and for the circus.
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This was just another stop in a season of travel facilitated by local organizers.
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For villagers, the Grand Prix may have been more akin to a county
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fair, which is supremely local except for the visiting amusement rides.
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The fair is all about displays of local good natured competition, fruit
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and vegetable canning, tractor poles, livestock breeding, and nostalgic
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objects like old time farm implements.
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The long local history of the fair itself is proudly evident at every turn
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in posters, signage, and activities.
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Generations of local families participate.
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But a circus is not a county fair, nor is a fair a circus expecting one to be
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the other is bound to provoke, clash.
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The loss of the Grand Prix and the bankruptcy of the track had negative
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consequences for individuals on both sides of the local issue.
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Henry Valent and Malcolm Curry raised money by mortgaging their houses.
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Valent died barely a year after the track was sold at 67.
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Curry was younger, but he too lived only to 67.
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After he left the corporation in 1970, Cameron went to work for
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Jim Hall on a project with gm.
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He then served as SCCA Director of Professional racing and
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its executive director.
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But in 1977, at age 56, he returned to Watkins Glenn to open a law practice.
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He died 31 years later.
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Argo Singer's full-time auto racing employment after leaving the track
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was brief and he came home just in time to witness the corporation
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begin its grim, slide into oblivion.
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He must have felt a deep sense of frustration and disappointment.
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It's hard to imagine that being a small town attorney afforded inger the
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same satisfaction as running F1 races.
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Michael Ettinger reports that near the end of Cameron's life, a
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journalist asked if he regretted that NASCAR had replaced F1 nascar.
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By the way, first raced here in 1977.
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Well, true enough, but pretty bloodless and maybe masking the passionate
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feelings of a sporting gentleman.
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Racers like Cameron and Volunteer Villagers would surely agree that the
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unique reward of hosting Formula One transcended mere commercial activity
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from the mid seventies and after F one's departure from the Glen until 2017
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when Liberty Media bought the sport.
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The US Grand Prix raced at seven Tracks.
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All but Indianapolis and Austin were temporary and they hosted the race
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from one to eight years, four times.
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There were four US Grand Prix in a single season, only at Coda, a
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new $300 million permanent track.
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Did the race finally find something like a. One reading of this is to
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say that it was chaotic and reveals an uneven, maybe declining US.
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Interest in Formula One, NASCAR and American Open Wheel Racing were likely
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more popular then with network TV coverage and Fortune 500 sponsorship.
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You could almost say there was US Grand Prix racing before and after Watkins
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Glenn, with neither comparing favorably with the Glenn years until very recently.
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This raises the intriguing question, what if Cameron
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Argetsinger had bought the track?
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There were public perplexity and disgruntlement when the race was lost.
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Lenz and Curry's lives and maybe reputations were damaged.
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Cameron and Argo Singer's full-time involvement in motor sports came to
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an end three decades before his death.
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None of these things might have occurred.
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The next years of Formula One transformed the sport, especially technologically
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with respect to engines, aerodynamics and safety TV coverage in the US was
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sporadic, but in retrospect, F1 was maturing alongside new media like cable
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television that soon brought about the mediatization of sports generally.
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Finally, formula One became a globe spanning business, so.
25:55
Could a successful USGP have influenced these changes and made the sport
26:00
more attractive to North Americans.
26:03
If the USGP took place at multiple venues, there are now three.
26:07
Could Watkins Glen have been their owner or partner?
26:10
Might this have given the Glen a seat at the table or offered at a role in
26:15
sanctioning when Liberty bought the sport?
26:17
And conversely, would Watkins Glen International be a different enterprise?
26:21
Most of all, less dependent on NASCAR for big crowds and financing.
26:25
And finally, in 1974, Cameron Argetsinger proposed a US Grand Prix race through
26:32
Central Park in New York City.
26:34
Think about that if only Thank you.
26:44
Thanks, Jim.
26:45
That was fascinating.
26:46
I always liked Alan Jones until I heard that comment.
26:49
Uh, stone Age.
26:51
Come on.
26:51
Uh, does anyone have any questions for Jim?
26:54
I have a question about the relationship between Mr. Valent and Mr. Argetsinger.
26:59
Was there a history of bad blood there, or why was he so opposed to
27:04
Cameron Argetsinger purchase offer?
27:06
So there's a great deal of speculation in this kind of analysis.
27:09
It's difficult to find records, for example, where are the minutes
27:14
to the corporation meetings where you might have seen a disagreement?
27:18
One could say from what is on the record and even some of what I proclaim today,
27:23
Valent was a very local guy who did very well for himself and probably had
27:28
strong connections in the community.
27:29
Different from Cameron, who arguably des descends from a family who had spent
27:33
more than a century here, but was a kind of outsider and a and a privileged guy.
27:38
And there may have been something at the very, very personal level
27:41
that had nothing to do with.
27:42
And I guess I would wanna say that if any of that is the case, I, I wanna
27:46
try to locate, locate it in this idea of, of a sporting gentleman, which
27:50
I would say Cameron Arge Singer, the guys who initially set up road
27:53
racing, uh, shared, and then someone like vit, smart, educated, but
27:58
very local in, in a different way.
27:59
There's also probably a danger and over personalizing this kind of thing.
28:03
No, I just wanted to clarify the two quotes that you attributed to Len.
28:08
In 11 years, he switched his point of view from private
28:12
being bad to private being good.
28:14
That's what you put up there, right?
28:15
I think I'd rather just let this, those quotes stand alone.
28:19
I mean, I, it was remarkable to see that whatever was going on, I
28:22
mean, he just may have been very frustrated and angry at the end.
28:25
Full stop.
28:28
As far as you know, have there been any clashes between sporting gentlemen
28:33
and local places elsewhere, or is this a uniquely Watkins Glen phenomenon?
28:38
Well, what I might pursue next is something called the Watkins Glen
28:42
Effect, where there's a claim that.
28:44
In the fifties when road racing came to America and tracks like
28:48
the three I mentioned, bridge, Hampton and Lime Rock and so forth.
28:51
They were sort of part of a larger phenomenon that the Glen had led
28:55
the way and there was a kind of imitation and cross fertilization.
28:58
Now, would that mean there was a tension?
29:00
Well, bridge had doesn't exist anymore, and a lot of that is due to people
29:05
hitting the noise and what have you.
29:06
You can't race on Sundays at Lime Rock.
29:09
So maybe this happened, but it wasn't fatal, and maybe that's the
29:12
case because the stakes weren't as high as Formula One racing.
29:15
That's an intriguing question because if you claim to be doing a a case
29:19
study, well then a what and how about some other examples to the previous
29:23
gentleman's point, I think Las Vegas was actually a great example of that,
29:27
where at one point they blocked the view of the course for the walkway.
29:32
So you're seeing sort of an urbanization where you're still
29:36
creating a, an us and them.
29:37
And so I guess my question would be with the major circuits being in major cities,
29:42
how are we transitioning from this?
29:44
Small town, us and them to big city, us and them.
29:48
I think what I'm trying to describe was a different era.
29:51
Post Liberty Formula One is something entirely different.
29:54
It's a media spectacle and these cities are knocking Liberty's doors
29:58
down to have this opportunity for attention and moneymaking and, and
30:02
most of all, celebrity presence.
30:03
So it's sort of an apples and oranges comparison and maybe last year's.
30:08
Las Vegas race was kind of teething problems as they figured
30:11
out how to organize things.
30:12
The best.
30:13
The more interesting question about Vegas is that there was one years ago
30:16
through a parking lot, I'm forgetting the author's name, but it, it was heavily
30:20
inflicted with or assisted by the mafia.
30:24
You know, so that would be more interesting Vegas then and now.
30:28
Yeah.
30:28
You had brought up the possibility of proper accounting methods
30:32
weren't used in those final years.
30:35
How did that play out in the town when, I have to think that just brought in
30:40
suspicion of theft and questionable use of, of proceeds and monies.
30:46
I think, again, there's a problem with lack of records and when I've talked with
30:50
people, they would say things like, well.
30:52
Sale of tickets was always pretty casual.
30:55
There was even someone suggested there might have been phony tickets,
30:59
you know, produced and sold.
31:00
I think in a, in a way, maybe some of this has to do with a
31:03
conception of this whole enterprise.
31:05
It's just a bunch of friends who get together and do things that
31:08
are good for the local people.
31:09
And was there criminal activity?
31:12
I don't know.
31:13
The lack of records is really a, a difficult hurdle.
31:16
And maybe in the end it doesn't matter.
31:18
'cause the effect would, would be the same.
31:20
Would anyone like to challenge the sort of argument that I've laid out?
31:26
Okay.
31:26
I'm not gonna challenge, but as the new archivist at the International
31:30
Motor Racing Research Center, we're gonna get you those records.
31:33
That's, that's a promise.
31:35
It sounds like you've just arrived the other day, right?
31:39
Dusty boxes of.
31:41
Okay.
31:41
I'm old enough.
31:42
I was at one of the original Las Vegas gr pri in the, uh, parking lot.
31:47
Did somebody else have a question?
31:48
Did I step on somebody else there?
31:50
I just had a comment.
31:51
Oh, I'm sorry.
31:52
Yes.
31:52
Lynn, I'm gonna challenge you Good when I make my presentation.
31:56
Oh, good.
31:56
Good.
31:59
Ooh, stick around for that.
32:02
Yeah, I was actually going out for lunch during that time.
32:04
Uh, I just wanna say that that's the nature of this kind of work.
32:08
None of us claims to have the truth, you know, it's a
32:10
conversation that doesn't stop.
32:12
So thank you.
32:12
I, I would be honored.
32:14
All I can say is somebody old enough to have attended a lot
32:17
of those Grand Prix up on here.
32:18
It was just a magnificent time of year.
32:20
We geared up for it.
32:21
It was great.
32:22
Vegas, the first Caesars Palace Grand Prix was really corny and fake and ridiculous.
32:27
I was at Long Beach when they were still running Grand Prix
32:29
cars, and that was pretty cool.
32:31
I liked Mosport a lot too, but this was still not to sound like the old
32:35
guy telling people to get off my grass.
32:37
This is really the rightful home of the US Grand Prix, and that was
32:40
a fascinating presentation, Jim.
32:41
So thank you again very much.
32:42
Well, I can't, since you've mentioned old guys getting nostalgic, I can't resist
32:47
the reference to weather everything you read about the Glen, you know it's in
32:50
the fall and the leaves are turning.
32:52
I came here one year and it's snow.
32:55
Thank.
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This episode is brought to you in part by the International
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