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Is Thunder's Offense Finally Becoming a Real Worry? · Bring The Thunder Podcast

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You're listening to the Bring the Thunder Podcast, a podcast
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by fans, for fans. Yes, you are welcome everybody
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to another episode of the Bring the Thunder Podcast.
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We have myself, Gabe, we got Joe and sad here today, and we have
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some good topics for you guys. So without further ado, let's
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just jump right in. Joe, what is our first topic?
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Our first topic and we have to talk about it fellas, and I
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don't want to sound arrogant here, but after the performance
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against the San Antonio Spurs in the NBA Cup semi final or
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quarter final, whatever they called it, is the offense
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starting to become a worry? Listen, I know we're 24 and two
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and don't get mad at me, but there's certain things that we
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have to cover when OKC shoots 9 of 37 in Vegas.
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So it felt kind of like an away game because there's a lot of
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Spurs fans there and we saw how the team performed on the road
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in the playoffs, which wasn't great last year.
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I believe that's kind of a concern. 9 of 37 from deep, just
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41 from the field, which this team has been so good in general
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shooting the ball so far this season.
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Field goals, 3 point field goals.
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I'm starting to think that we might be missing something on
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the offensive end. Maybe it's just we haven't been
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healthy. I'm trying to get your guys
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thoughts on this. I mean, I think for this case,
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talking about the Spurs game, there were things that went
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wrong. Like there's no denying that.
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Obviously we shot poorly, but on the season we are shooting
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pretty efficiently all around. You mentioned that a little bit
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ago as well. But in that game particularly
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there, there wasn't much fixing what was happening.
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Shots weren't falling. The game was not going the way
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that we wanted it to go it. One player is not going to help
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that. Now on the other side of that,
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we were missing Isaiah Joe, who has consistently been our best 3
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point shooter, who has stepped up, who has been someone who
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single handedly raised our three-point percentage as a team
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and we are missing a player like that.
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So on one hand there, there's that situation where if we have
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him, maybe a couple more shots fall.
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We only lost the game by two. He literally hits 13.
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Obviously the game doesn't play out the same way, butterfly
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effect and everything, but I'm just saying in that scenario, we
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lose by two, we're missing our best 3 point shooter.
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That's a big difference to me. But at the same time we can't
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predict how that game would have gone.
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I don't think him being there would have single handedly
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brought up everybody else's 3 point percentage.
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It was obvious that the ball was not dropping that night and for
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all we know maybe he would have come in and and struggled.
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But in terms of on the season, I'm not.
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I'm not worried yet. I understand the concern at
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first, but there were games in the playoffs last year where we
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shot like shit, we played rough. We we relied on the defense, we
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relied on turning them over like normal, and we still won games.
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So the way I'm looking at it is if we can just simply improve on
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the consistency a little bit from last year's playoff run,
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which this regular season we clearly have.
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We're dominant. We're we're playing good, we're
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knocking shots down. Everybody's doing what they
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should do. If we can hit the playoffs and
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do that at the same time, I'm not expecting every single game
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we're going to come out and shoot 40% from three.
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I wish I could expect that, but I can't, especially not from us
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where we are not ask anybody. OKC and three-point shooting do
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not go hand in hand. They never have.
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That's not a thing that we are. So I'm not expecting us to be
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shooting lights out. But I'll I'll put it this way
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and I'll I'll stop talking here so Savor can join it, but I'll
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put it this way. It was concerning to see us play
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that way. But like you said, we are 24 and
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two. I expect us to have bad games.
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Give me another 15 games or so to give you an answer if it's
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going to be a problem. Yeah, I mean, we can't really
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say it's a problem when we're net rating top five in both
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defensive and offensive categories.
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We've been, like Gabe said, pretty consistent all season.
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And we're also facing a younger Spurs team that has a lot of
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athletic guys. Like, I was just looking at
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their roster right now and I'm sure they threw a lot of bodies
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towards our more athletic guards that we have with Shay and J
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Dub. J Dub didn't have the best of
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nights as well. Devin Vassell, Stephen Castle,
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Darren Fox, even Dylan Harper's over there, Kelvin Johnson.
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Like these are all like really athletic guys.
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Like maybe not any of them are standing out too much on the
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defensive end. Maybe Castle is.
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Darren Fox is pretty fast, so he's able to, you know, shift
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his feet. But they have a lot of looks
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that they can throw at all the players that we have and they're
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able to rotate as fluidly as we can.
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So from a defensive standpoint and them being young, this is
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one of those things that you kind of run into when you're
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really good team. You play teams that are young
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and hungry and you have gone through a grueling, you know,
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series of finals games and everything else like that.
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And then coming into the season, you're getting everyone's best
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shot. You're eventually going to drop
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1. So for me, short answer is no,
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I'm not that concerned from an offensive perspective.
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Like one game, it happens. I'm sure if it was a more
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important game to the guys, not saying the NBA Cup isn't, but
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I'm sure like Jada would be a little bit more locked in.
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Shay would definitely be a lot more locked in.
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I think he got, he gets more locked in by the fourth quarter.
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And even with how well they played and how poorly we played,
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I felt like there was no point. Even at the end when we were
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down like 6 points, I was like, oh, we'll just come back.
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And we almost did. So not too much concern from an
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offensive standpoint. Yeah, I just feel like we're
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bound to drop games here and there.
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Can't go perfect on the season. So we'll take like, you know,
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four or five losses and go on our merry way.
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Yeah, I agree with both of you. I just it just had to be talked
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about. I think mark well, I should say
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coach Mark might agree with changing things up.
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He was talking about it today keeping the starting five open,
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which means I mean let's let's go over it real quick.
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Obviously Chet's safe Shay is safe.
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J dub has to be safe savior and Gabe is he is he thinking about
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going away from the double big it's.
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Possible. I was going to say I hope so.
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I always kind of like chat out the true five position,
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especially with the roster death that we have with our guards
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now. I think it makes less and less
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sense keeping the double bigs out there from a nightly
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perspective. I think it's more of a
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situational thing like you can, I don't know, like still have
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Hartenstein play major minutes, but more so when they start
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going to a super sized lineup. But against a team like the
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Spurs, they were pretty small lineup.
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And I think having Hartenstein out there in those types of
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situations doesn't create the best offense and defense for us.
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So I do hope we are a little bit more fluid with the starting
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lineups, like younger teams that have to run and gun a little bit
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more. I prefer us to have a little bit
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more pace out there. Like just switching in AJ
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Mitchell, for example, into the starting lineup would have made
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a huge difference from the get go and I don't think they would
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have really stood a chance, especially with how he played in
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the second-half. In my opinion, he's just a big
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game changer for us and I think with his rise and how well
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Cason's playing, it's just like really hard to bench these guys.
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You know, Hardenstein's fantastic, but I think he's
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better in that 20 to 25 minute range where he's out there
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against second units. He's a little bit more dominant
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in that sense and less we're really faced against someone big
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time. Like I guess Wemby, when Wemby
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came in in the fourth, I was asking for more Hartenstein
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minutes and we didn't really receive that.
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So I think it was a little bit of an opposite effect.
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But long term, yeah, I wouldn't mind a line up change going to a
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small ball line up. I prefer it more spacing chats
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better at the five in my opinion that shot blocking just overall
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like as a player and you should always play your five best guys
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that you have available and currently you know, Jason and AJ
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are making that case so. Yeah, I was going to say I'm
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kind of getting a kind of get a get on you for a second here.
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Who are the best 5 for your ideal starting 5 right now?
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I think I answered this before and I'm going to stay consistent
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with it. I'm going to stick with JJ Dub,
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Dort, AJ. Actually, no, I'm going to go
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with Cason because I want AJ still coming off the bench.
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I think it was Cason that I was thinking of, but and chat at the
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five. So Cason's a guy that can play
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up. So when he's guarding bigger
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guys, like I'm not too worried about it.
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J Dub can practically play the four and the five.
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So I think he'd fit right into that role and give that ball
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handling up to Cason because he's proven he's a really
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protective of the ball kind of guy.
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Like the higher his volume goes, he doesn't turn the ball over
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more, unlike I think a JS a guy that I would be a little bit
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more worried about where if he does get pressed against first
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team players, he may turn over, turn over the ball a little bit
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more. Right, Gabe, I'm coming to you
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now. I'm going to start by asking
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you, do you think there's a change needed?
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And then again, like Savio just answered, what would be your 5?
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I have a different approach to this whole situation here.
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There's not like a set in stone lineup that I like.
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I think what makes this team so dangerous is that we can just
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shift in a different five man lineup every single night if we
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need. So for example, when you play a
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team like Phoenix, who's shooting the ball at a
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ridiculous rate, very efficient 3 point team.
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I want guys like Kayson out there.
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I want guys like Door starting and I want guys like AJ maybe
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getting less minutes that night because the offense isn't as
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necessary. But then when you have games
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where you play against like Dallas, who's a bigger team,
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then we do run the double big. Other nights we're playing a
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team that's smaller. We don't need the double big
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like Boston. Boston isn't huge.
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So I think that's I think that's our strength really that no
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other team in the entire NBA can match is the fact that we can
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just sub in, sub out so run in different lineups and our
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chemistry is so high that I'm not worried about the idea of
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hurting the chemistry by not having the same starting lineup
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every single night. Our chemistry is so clearly the
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highest of any team in the NBA. So it comes down to me where
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it's like, is there any other team in the league that can just
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swap in different starting lineups at this effective of a
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rate? No, there's frankly not.
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So to me, like you say, what are the top five guys?
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It depends it it depends who we're playing Shay Dub and Chet.
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Those three always should be starting.
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I have I have no problem with playing a team and not starting
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Lou Dork. I love Lou Dort.
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I have no problem with it where there are games where we need
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offense start AJ, let him come out there, let him knock down
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some shots, then have dork come in off the bench.
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That's that's a lot of pressure when all of a sudden one of the
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best on ball defenders comes off the bench and your second unit
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is in Dort's gonna put whoever is just got off the bench.
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He's gonna put them in hell. So I I love the fact that we can
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just play anybody against any team.
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That's the way I look at this. I'd like to see mark start doing
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that. So when you mentioned like he's
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more open to different line UPS, that's what I hope that means.
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I hope that doesn't mean Oh well, we're gonna play around
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and try to find the perfect lineup.
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The perfect lineup is the fact that we can play any we have.
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We have a hell of a a hand of cards and no one else knows it
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but Mark. So every night Mark's going to
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be dealing a different hand and and there's no way that people
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can stop that because hell, half the time we don't even know what
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we're going to be getting. Like we watch every game, but we
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can't predict what the line up's going to be.
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I I absolutely agree with you. I'm going to come back to you
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really quick though. I I think your answer is
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absolutely right, but is there a, does it get to a point where
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you're throwing out different line UPS, you know, based off
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match ups every night? Is that just going to ruin the
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consistency of this team and this offense and, and you know,
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the connectivity on the defensive side?
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I don't think so. I mean, we'll get into this
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later, but OKC has a handful of players very high up on the
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defensive rating, players who aren't all starters, players who
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are coming off the bench because that's how like interchangeable
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this team is. Like I mentioned the chemistry
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and whatnot, it there might be games where the shooting looks
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worse because we went with a defensive heavy lineup and we
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didn't put AJ in as much or we didn't put as many shooters in.
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Wiggins gets less minutes or something.
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Yeah, there might be games like that, but that's the that's the
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necessary cost to beat A-Team that's going to be really
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offensive heavy like Phoenix, like a team that's shooting
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lights out. The cost is, yeah, we might not
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shoot 40% from three, but Phoenix might shoot 20% from
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three because our defense is so damn good and we score 65 points
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in the paint. Like it.
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It's the kind of thing we're like it.
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Yeah, you you're risking, you're risking that.
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Absolutely. You're risking the three-point
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percent is dropping and raising and dropping and raising.
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You're you're risking that. But to me, that's what's worth
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it because you have to have a line up that you can throw at
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different teams to throw them off if you had to go with yeah,
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I do think there should be a default like a a number one line
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up that you have to have out. And to me that's the default of
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Shay Dort, Dub heart Chet. I think that is the five man
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lineup that has been the strongest.
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It's been one of the most go to. But I don't think that means
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that doesn't mean it should be put out the most.
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It's just like if there's ever a panic or a time where we need
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something we know works, I think those five work.
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So like, yeah, Joe, yes, it it could risk throwing things off,
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but to me that is the cost that it takes for matching up on the
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other end. Otherwise, we would just be a
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perfect basketball team that never loses a game, ever.
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Yeah, I, I absolutely agree with you there.
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For me, my opinion on this is, like you said, especially in the
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playoffs, right? Because I'm assuming the rest of
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this regular season, it's going to be quite the breeze.
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I mean, not that every game isn't important, but it's just
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OK. She's a lot better than a lot of
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the teams in the NBA right now. But for me, like obviously it's
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based off matchup, but I love obviously SGA.
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The guy continues to prove it in big games.
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I think Alex Caruso should be starting, especially in big
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games like we we saw it in the finals, like he started second
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halves. I don't understand why if the
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matchup is right in the matchup is there that Caruso can't
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start. And then obviously I have been a
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fan of the double biggest against teams like like Denver.
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Obviously Yokich has a lot to handle.
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I think the double big might be needed against a team like
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Houston where if they have Sangoon and Steven Adams on the
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floor and even possibly possibly the Spurs.
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I'm not really sure yet. I just think that Mark screwed
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up by not having a single big on the line up.
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When Wemby came into the into the game, you had Jay Wills, you
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know, stuck on Wemby there. So I think if you just had one,
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yeah, one of our centers on it would have been a little bit of
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an easier night for us. But yeah, I agree with you.
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I think this team's too good to kind of stick to 1 because
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matchups you have to just know your personnel and then we have
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enough guys to to match whatever any other any other team is
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going to bring out to us. So that's my thoughts on that,
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but we'll see what Mark does Savvier.
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Back to you. Yeah.
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Just to kind of close out these two segments that kind of go
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hand in hand, my thoughts are two of them. 1 is when the line
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UPS shortened up. I mean that's as nearly as a
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perfect team as you can get with a 7 to 8 man roster.
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And we're not doing that anytime soon in terms of consistent play
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because marks being very fluid. And the second thing I want to
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say is we had a 16 point lead against the Spurs and soon as
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she was sitting for an extended amount of time, they started
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coming back. And that's when Wendy had a
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little bit more extra minutes in there.
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And that usually wouldn't be the case.
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Like on his regular minutes, he'd probably take a rest at
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some point as well in the fourth quarter.
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And that's where a bench would kind of take off.
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This was kind of a unique scenario.
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He's coming off an injury. So they played him heavily in
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that second-half versus if we were to do the exact thing with
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Shay, like most teams wouldn't stand a chance if he was to
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just, you know, get heavy, heavy loaded minutes and into the 4th.
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So I wasn't. That's why I wasn't worried.
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After the game. I was like they came back while
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he was sitting, like if he was in it wouldn't even be a
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problem. I was just a little bit worried
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about our shooting just because it has been a problem in the
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past, like I said in the last year's play offs, like there
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were some miserable performances.
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But one last thing on this segment here and I, you know, I
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don't think it's a concern at all.
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I think it's probably his first bad game since he's been back.
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Just sucks that it had to be that one.
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Jada looked bad, he looked bad and obviously all three of us on
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this panel have fought for J dub op all last season prove and he
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proved everybody wrong in the finals.
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People were shitting on him during the playoffs.
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I think he had a fine playoffs. He had bad games, but so did a
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lot of other players. But he looked pretty out of
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control didn't kind of didn't really know what he wanted to do
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with the ball. Turning it over your guys
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thoughts on his performance really quick and you know
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obviously it's not a concern yet, but I don't think the wrist
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is the question is the wrist still bothering him because he's
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still wearing the brace and stuff?
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It could be but I'm actually going to.
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This is probably a hot take. I I feel like OK CPM disagree
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with me on this. I don't like Jacob as a ball
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handler and I really never have. I like when he can self create
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and get his own shots. He, he is careless with the
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ball. He, I really feel like he gets
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poked a lot. He gets the ball loose a lot.
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It's, it's honestly I think one of the weaker parts of his game,
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to be honest. I, I when it comes to just
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himself getting to his spot and putting a shot up, that's
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different. But when he is taking the ball
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off the court, there are so many times where defenses know that
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he is weaker and they will push him.
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And I feel like he turns the ball over multiple times a game
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because of that. And the spurs game was, it was
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exactly that. It felt like the ball was like
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when Shay has it. And this is not fair to compare
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the 2, but when Shay has it, it's like the term the balls on
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a string has never been truer. Like no one is getting that ball
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from Shay like no matter what they do.
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And even guys like AJ are showing like signs of that.
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J Dub I feel like is almost like struggling without the pressure
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sometimes. But there's times where he
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dribbles off his side or off of his off his thigh or his knee
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and it just concerns me a lot. And that's something that like,
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I feel like whenever J Dub is in the game, we need a ball handler
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alongside him to essentially run.
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And that's not to say he can't run the second unit.
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He can, but AJ needs to be there or someone like that needs to be
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there to essentially bring the ball up the court and on.
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That was the way I saw that Joe. I I don't think it's maybe his
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wrist is still bothering him. I don't think that was the case.
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I just think he's got growing, growing pains right now.
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He's only played a handful of games this season, but ask
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anybody. Last year I got, I remember I
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got into an argument with Caper specifically.
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I will defend Jadub till I die. So I love Jada, but that has
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been something that I've noticed and that's something that stood
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out to me against the Spurs. My comments you probably noticed
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when I mentioned my starting lineup and when I spoke about
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the two ball handlers, Jadub's name did not come up during that
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commentary because I purposely said there's only three guys I
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want handling the ball from a point guard or guard
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perspective, which is Cason AJ and SGA and MY2 preferences
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currently from protecting the ball perspective, which is
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what's needed in a starting lineup.
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That's still going to be Cason Wallace and SGA because they're
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both Kentucky guards. You can trust those guys play
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the guys that you can trust with the ball in the most pressure
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situations. And I know both of them can get
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it done. So I'm I'm going to stick with
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that. And then as far as?
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Commentary about his wrist. He did tweak it during a game.
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I think I mentioned it a little while back.
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He kind of like shook at it, went over to the bench and was
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getting it looked at. And I think he's just playing
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through any knickknacks that happened to it.
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Obviously, if anything serious were to happen to his wrist,
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like he'd be out for an extended time, so it's probably nothing
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like that, but he's probably still working through it.
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And I think he mentioned it in his YouTube video, like how hard
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it was post injury to Ashley Dribble.
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And I think that's still something to get used to and
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everything else like that. I still think he's a high end
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player, but I wouldn't agree like moving forward just for the
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sake of his wrist and people are hacking at it.
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I prefer him to just get to his spots, hit his shots, kind of
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switch up his game a little bit to be a little bit more of an
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off ball player versus when he was early on with the team, he
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was very much creating for both units and that's what really led
21:02
to his rise. But I don't think that's
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necessary for his game because of how elite he is on both ends
21:07
and specifically. Like honestly if he couldn't
21:10
even do anything with one of his hands I'd still start them so.
21:14
Yeah, it's it's odd for me because I think he's been, since
21:18
he's been back, our best creator on the offense for for his
21:22
teammates anyway. He put up like 8 assists, 6
21:26
assists, 7 assists. You'll see big time games from
21:28
him on the on the creative standpoint, but he had a tough
21:31
one against San Antonio. So it's like very inconsistent
21:34
right now and it's kind of been very inconsistent for the past
21:38
three seasons. But I still have a lot of
21:40
confidence, confidence in him as a ball handler.
21:43
I think it was easily our second best ball handler in the
21:46
playoffs last year and the big moments I trusted him with the
21:49
two man game with SGA. So I'm going to continue to
21:52
trust him and you know, put my faith in him.
21:54
And if it continues to be a little bit of an issue, we will
21:58
talk about it more. But since we're kind of talking
22:01
about J Dubs wrist, which he said like is going to bother him
22:04
forever, which kind of concerns me, I'm going to jump one thing
22:08
here, fellas and go to the injuries possibly becoming a
22:13
concern and then we'll get to the defense after because
22:17
obviously we're seeing J dub. He shook.
22:19
Xavier mentioned he shook his wrist out a couple games ago.
22:22
He mentioned it took so much to took so much to even start
22:25
dribbling a ball after multiple surgeries.
22:28
He's mentioned that it still bothers him.
22:30
It's never going to be fully healthy, which is kind of crazy.
22:33
I don't think how like not a lot of people are bringing that up.
22:36
But he said that a few days ago and I was like, that's not
22:40
great. But injuries in general,
22:41
Obviously we just talked about J dub.
22:43
We saw Chet last year with the hip.
22:46
He's been on and off with rest as well this year.
22:48
Isaiah Joe has had multiple injuries over the past two
22:51
seasons. Sternum, calf, knee.
22:53
Caruso had a hip strain. Lou Dort has had some injuries
22:56
this year. Case and had some injuries.
22:58
Hartenstein missed 20 something games last year with a hand
23:02
wrist injury and then obviously has been injured this year with
23:05
the calf. Aaron Wiggins missed time this
23:08
year. Ken Rich Williams has missed
23:09
time this year, guys, over past two seasons.
23:13
That's a lot of injuries. And yes, we were healthy when it
23:16
came down to getting into the playoffs, but we weren't even
23:19
fully healthy. J Dub had the wrist.
23:20
He just didn't say anything until after, you know, Tyrone
23:23
was done. But the injuries keep picking up
23:26
and there's got to be a point to where they got to stop because
23:30
it's just injury, injury, O2 games later, injury to somebody.
23:34
And they're all important players.
23:36
Level of concern fellas on the injury standpoint.
23:39
Because this team can't just keep getting injured and missing
23:43
2 weeks and missing 2 weeks. And I'm in my opinion, just
23:45
expect to be fine. Ready to roll for the playoffs.
23:47
I I don't like that at all. I'm going to go first on this
23:51
and say I'm not going to say 0 level concern, but I don't have
23:58
much concern because I've seen the Golden State Warriors go
24:01
through this and we're kind of following very same parallel
24:05
with them with injuries and how far they go and everything else
24:08
like that. And that's what we're striving
24:10
to do. So obviously we haven't gotten
24:12
there yet, but I think I'd be more concerned if this was like
24:16
our third season into it and we played, you know, long into the
24:20
playoffs. And that was a that naturally
24:23
become a concern of mine. But right now, I think it's just
24:26
kind of a part of the season. Every team's dealing with it.
24:29
And the one guy that has remained consistent without the
24:33
injuries is our key player, SV, AM, VP.
24:36
So it doesn't matter who's going in and out of the like roster.
24:42
I'm OK with it during the season.
24:44
Like we're still winning games. It's not impacting us too much.
24:48
Even if it was like, let's say, you know, we lost a bunch of
24:51
games due to it. As long as we go into the
24:53
playoffs healthy, that's usually all that matters.
24:56
And usually we manage our minutes some of the best in the
24:59
NBA, not just from like a game to game perspective, even
25:04
quarter to quarter, situation to situation, like no other team
25:07
can afford as much rest as we give the guys when they need it.
25:11
So yeah, definitely maybe like 10% concern, but not too
25:17
concerned. Yeah, I'm going to agree with
25:21
Savir on this one. I'm not too worried either.
25:24
I think the best point you just made was about Shay.
25:27
How many times we said you could put any four players around Shay
25:29
and we'll probably still win basketball games like it's true.
25:31
It's. Pluck some players out of the
25:33
Thunder crowd and. Yeah, it'll be a close game.
25:37
No, but seriously, it also ties into our depth.
25:39
That's the nice thing. Like I am worried about the
25:41
injuries and the extent of like I'm worried about our players,
25:44
but I'm not worried in the sense of if someone goes out, we just
25:48
bring in someone else and get the job done.
25:49
Like that's what we've been doing.
25:51
That's what it's it's successful.
25:52
It was 24 and two doing that. I mean, I don't until that Spurs
25:56
game, we hadn't had a single game of our actual starting
26:00
lineup playing together. I believe Spurs, I think
26:02
everyone was healthy for that game, even though Hardenstein
26:04
only played like he was on some sort of minutes restriction.
26:06
Essentially, it seemed like, but it's it's like we said last
26:12
year, we hit the playoffs. The health is fine other than
26:15
Jada, but he still gets the job done.
26:16
He doesn't perfectly fine as long as it's healthy and the
26:19
team is is working. The the wheels are turning once
26:23
we get to playoffs. I don't care, you know, like I
26:25
don't want to see players hurt. Obviously the one that I am only
26:29
the only player I genuinely concerned about is Chet just
26:32
because he's had the rough injuries.
26:34
I'm not saying he's injury prone, but miss an entire
26:36
season, miss half a season in his first few years.
26:39
That's that is more concerning to me just because I I know how
26:42
crucial he is to this team's defense.
26:44
He holds down the pain. He's our anchor.
26:45
We definitely need that. So I do I do get a little
26:49
nervous every time I see a specifically on a fast break
26:51
when he just puts his head down and throws his body at the hoop.
26:54
I nearly I cringe every single time like, dude, he's that hip
26:57
is not OK, but that's that's all I got really like savior made a
27:03
great point. We Shay doesn't play fourth
27:06
quarters. We we don't worry about the fact
27:08
that we need to be playing hard. Like obviously we play hard, we
27:11
play to win, but that end of the third quarter comes around and
27:15
50% in games our guys are are slowing down and get ready to
27:18
hit the bench and let the backups come in.
27:19
So in the backups usually play like a starting lineup, which
27:22
just goes back to what I was starting with where we lose door
27:26
a JAJ Subs in or or Wallace comes in.
27:29
We lose Chet Heartenstein slips to the five and J will can come
27:33
play the four. We lose Heartenstein reverse.
27:35
You know, J will comes in at the four.
27:37
We lose J dub Wiggins comes in. Like it's ridiculous how much
27:41
def this team has. So Joe, I understand what you're
27:43
saying. Like, it it, it gets to a point
27:45
where it is like, I am really tired of looking at the injury
27:48
report and just seeing like seven of our players.
27:50
Like, that's annoying, except we're 24 and 2.
27:54
So it's like, yeah, well, and I can't be worried until it
27:57
becomes a serious problem. And for me, it's not hit that
27:59
yet. I'm already worried even our
28:01
rookies 2 out of the last handful.
28:04
That's a good point. Got missed a full season to
28:06
start his career. Sorber is missing a full season
28:08
to start his career. If there's one thing this OKC
28:11
team has problems with, it's the the medical.
28:15
And I don't want to blame Steph. I don't want to blame, you know,
28:19
people in the building, but people are consistently getting
28:22
hurt and it's going to catch up to, you know, the team at some
28:24
point. You can't just keep throwing all
28:27
these guys. And yes, you can replace them
28:28
during the regular season, but if you get those injuries right
28:31
before playoffs, during playoffs, you're not winning
28:33
anything. And I think it is a problem.
28:36
You guys mentioned Shay. Yes, Shay, knock on Wood, who
28:39
has been relatively healthy. Shay had some ankle issues early
28:43
in his time with OKC, too. But the consistency of these
28:49
injuries is starting to tack up and that's my problem.
28:52
Like Isaiah Joe's been injured like 3 times this year and
28:54
Isaiah Joe does not play as many minutes as a starter or any of
28:58
the starters on our team. Alex Crusoe gets hurt.
29:03
I know he's been kind of injury prone, but he's been hurt
29:06
multiple times throughout the last two season.
29:08
I'm talking over the last two seasons too.
29:10
Like all these guys are getting injured multiple times and not
29:13
even on the same thing. Lou Dort, the absolute unit that
29:15
Lou Dort is injured twice this year.
29:18
He had a shoulder and then he also had like the thigh issue.
29:23
I don't know. To me, I think it's a problem.
29:24
And then I'm going to keep a close eye on it the rest of the
29:26
year and hope that there's nothing long term.
29:29
Obviously that would be miserable.
29:30
But like, even Casey Wallace had an ankle.
29:33
He had a shoulder and they just got popped in the face the other
29:35
day. Like, that's a freak thing.
29:37
But I'm just going to keep tally of all these injuries because I
29:41
don't think the team could handle to continue to be injured
29:45
every day, game week, month of the season and just rely on
29:50
Shea. I just don't.
29:52
I just don't think it's, I don't think it's good for anybody.
29:56
And I don't think it'll. I'm just, I'm just concerned.
30:00
I'm just reading them on the side right now.
30:02
Just all the injuries from the past two seasons.
30:04
I don't think it's sustainable. And we got lucky that Shep was
30:08
able to come back last year. I don't like it.
30:13
I don't like it. I want to step in and say two
30:15
things. One is we play really hard on
30:17
defense and we're we're turning over most teams more than every
30:22
other team. So we're doing a lot of fast
30:24
break action and that leads to a lot of either rough fouls or
30:29
just hard plays in general. So yeah, it it, it, it goes for
30:35
every player even like we saw Kayson Wallace or Cruso at the
30:38
end of the game, get that steal and then get fouled.
30:41
Obviously it was a no call, but that's just how kind of the
30:45
style that we're playing and that's what we're committed to.
30:48
And so all these guys are putting their body on the line
30:51
from fast break to deflection to saving every single out of bound
30:55
ball. And that does take a physical
30:57
toll that doesn't go, you know, noticed on the amount of minutes
31:02
they're playing. Like a guy off the bench could
31:04
be playing 20 minutes, but he's playing them so much harder than
31:07
some guys that could be playing 3035 minutes, to be honest.
31:10
Like there's lazier players out there.
31:13
So that's one thing about this team.
31:15
They're playing really hard. And so I'm expecting like, you
31:17
know, here and there, Knick knack injuries happening.
31:21
The other part is the NBA. Not here and there though, it's
31:23
every other game. It's it's with every team,
31:26
though, Joe, like I was getting to that point of we're in a
31:29
different basketball era with the speed and pace of the game
31:32
and the level of injuries isn't going to go down with the level
31:37
of pace that is increasing. So we've seen that this number
31:42
rise and rise as the offenses are getting better because it's
31:46
harder to play defense and harder to play offense as well
31:49
because you're just so spaced out.
31:52
And that's just coming with the territory.
31:54
So I think we're the most prepared team even going into a
31:58
playoffs, if we were, you know, hobble here and there, a guy had
32:01
to miss a game or two, whatever, an ankle injury pops up, those
32:04
are things that are going to happen.
32:06
But I think we'd be able to fear it a lot more than like, let's
32:11
say like a team like the Knicks, one of their starters even gets
32:13
hurt. They're screwed.
32:14
Like there's a lot of teams out there like the Celtics, they
32:17
have a very tight knit 6 man unit.
32:20
Outside of that, one of those guys get hurt, they're screwed.
32:23
No, I absolutely agree with that.
32:25
Like we do have to put. In a guy like Aaron Wiggins,
32:27
who's known for 20 minutes a game, but he can absolutely
32:30
explode on offense from a two to three-game perspective.
32:34
But we needed it. That's just not something else
32:37
you know other teams have. Yeah.
32:39
No, I absolutely agree with that.
32:40
We do have the depth. But last thing on this topic and
32:44
then I'm we'll move on. Like I've seen OK, CA basketball
32:49
team in the NBA pick up more injuries than half the teams in
32:52
the NFL had this year. And the NFL has had a lot of
32:55
injuries this year. A lot.
32:56
But the fact that players are getting injured every other game
33:02
in the NBA compared to the NFL, maybe it's time for the NBA to
33:04
start picking up their doctor game and and their medical teams
33:08
because the NFL, yes, there's a lot of injuries, a lot of
33:11
concussions, a lot of broken bones.
33:13
But this OK C team is going through it.
33:15
I'm telling you. I mean, that's also comparing
33:18
the NBA where you play 82 games in a season and you're
33:21
constantly, I mean, you have back to backs, you have one day
33:24
off like that's going to lead to injury.
33:25
But football on the other hand, at the same time, the heaviest
33:28
contact sport is going to be injuries all the time.
33:29
But I I get what you're saying there, but it's really hard in
33:32
the NBA particularly. And you see with MLB 2 is just
33:35
worn out players, injuries happening so many times because
33:38
there's so many back to backs and one day offs.
33:41
And it's just that's that's why there have been serious talks
33:44
about like, do we lower the regular season games, which no,
33:47
I don't think you do. It screws with everything with
33:49
records and all that stuff. But there have been talks about
33:52
that, like serious talks about do we lower the amount of games
33:55
we play in the regular season because it leads to injuries.
33:56
So that's the way I look at it is like, like Savier said, yeah,
34:01
we're getting hurt a lot, but everybody gets hurt.
34:03
I mean, this Celtics entire season was tanked the second
34:06
Jason Tatum got hurt and they had to change everything.
34:07
And so, yeah, like, injuries happen, but it's going to
34:10
happen, especially with how many games you play in an NBA season.
34:13
I think we're still better off than most teams.
34:15
And before you go, Joe, I want to say I still think like, I
34:21
think we're, I think we're OK, man.
34:23
Like with the level of injuries, like I think we're OK compared
34:28
to everyone else that are going through it.
34:29
I think we've had more major injuries and even through our
34:32
major ones, we've still been able to sustain out of it.
34:36
So all right. That we will continue to
34:40
hopefully not update throughout the rest of the year, but let's
34:44
move back to where we were going to go, and that's Gabe's.
34:47
Gabe, you got some really interesting stats.
34:49
We did kind of talk about the offense.
34:51
Now we're going to talk about the defense.
34:53
Yeah, I'm, I'm taking Savvier's job today with a couple stats
34:56
for you guys. Let's get into that defense
34:58
first. There was a post that was made
35:00
that huge deal about it. Everyone's been talking about
35:02
it, and that's how dominant OK C is on defense.
35:05
OK C currently has the top five defensive rating leaders in the
35:10
NBA. That's that's like, no, no BS
35:13
there. Just straight up the top five
35:14
players with the highest defensive rating are all players
35:17
for OK C. So #5 is Isaiah hardenstein #4
35:20
is Cayson Wallace #3 is Chet Holmgren #2 is AJ Mitchell, and
35:25
#1 is Jay Will Jalen Williams leading the way.
35:28
But that's kind of just a crazy stat to think about.
35:31
Top five defensive rating leaders all from the same team
35:34
is insane. I'd be curious to know how many
35:37
times that's happened in history.
35:38
That is just a ridiculous thing to think about.
35:40
I mean, we know that this team has a super, super dominant
35:44
defense, like we've talked about it all the time.
35:46
But this, this is just crazy. And that's not counting SGA, by
35:49
the way, or Dort or J Dub, all players who are incredible
35:53
defenders or Caruso. Like it is insane how many
35:57
players are left off of that list when you're talking about
36:00
the defense. Like I and one of the ones that
36:03
surprise me the most is not Jay. Well, it's Hartenstein and I'm
36:06
very glad to see him on this list.
36:07
He's just, I mean, I think people don't think about like I
36:11
call Chet an anchor all the time, but Hardenstein is he's
36:14
the bruiser, he's the bully. I mean, he holds down the paint
36:17
like none other. And that's one of the biggest
36:18
things that I think that he brings to this team that people
36:21
don't realize is like he rebounds really, really well.
36:23
He he's got his his package in the paint when it comes to
36:27
scoring. And then he's a great passer,
36:29
but like he is a really good paint defender.
36:31
I mean, he's constantly guarding the other bigs, having to hold
36:34
down the paint against huge guys.
36:35
I think was specifically when we played the Timberwolves when he
36:37
was guarding Gobert for a lot like in in past games when he
36:41
guards Gobert. Like I know Gobert is a bad
36:43
example of an offensive center. He's a terrible offensive
36:46
player, but it's the big guys like that.
36:48
Like Hardenstein can push up, he can body him, he can he's just a
36:52
great defender. So what do you guys think about
36:53
that top five defensive rating players all on the same team?
36:57
Yeah. You know what I think about
36:58
that. I mean, it's historic.
36:59
I can't even process it. And then obviously a few other
37:03
guys you mentioned belong on that list.
37:05
Well, don't have the same rating, but obviously have very
37:09
similar impact or if not even better.
37:13
So it's historic. The team's going to continue to
37:16
win regular season and post season games because of those
37:18
players, because of the, you know, energy they bring on the
37:21
defensive side of the ball. Can they make some threes?
37:25
And then if they make some threes, they'll be 80 and 2.
37:29
So it's it's historic. I mean, kind of left speechless
37:38
on how good our defenses. I mean, there's not anything we
37:42
haven't said about it. I think the main thing for us
37:47
moving forward for our defenses, it's crazy that it continues to
37:51
evolve. Like I think early on in the
37:52
season, AJ was in the top five and then now we see Jay will
37:56
move in there. It's like whoever we start
37:58
giving minutes to moves up into the top echelon of the defense
38:02
and then this isn't even mentioned with how good Alex
38:05
Crusoe is and he's still not playing the full amount of
38:08
minutes that he could be playing.
38:11
I think with the minutes distribution this whole Thunder
38:14
roster could be on the all defensive team unit from first
38:18
and second team at this point 'cause.
38:20
If they met the if they met the game threshold.
38:24
Yeah, yeah, exactly. But still, I think it's a good
38:30
topic. And I mean, I don't expect
38:33
anything less from a unit. Like if one guy's playing very
38:38
successful defense, it kind of rises to the other other side of
38:42
the group, so. Yeah, I will add that both Shay
38:46
and AJ Mitchell are in the top ten as well.
38:49
So that's where they're both sitting at.
38:50
I mean, you mentioned AJ being higher, so that that that's,
38:54
that's just crazy. But a little a little biased
38:57
adding this on, but I, I'm getting to witness a lot of high
39:01
quality defensive basketball as an Iowa State basketball fan.
39:04
I mean, TJ Alsenberger's our coach.
39:05
He's a defensive minded basketball coach.
39:07
So getting to watch my NBA team like have this defense heavy,
39:11
this defense minded team like what a what a time to be alive.
39:15
Yeah, it's kind of honestly, I'm glad to bring that up.
39:18
It it it is kind of like a like college bought in defense like
39:22
every. You don't see it a lot in the
39:24
regular season, especially about like like an NBA team just
39:27
buying in defense. First.
39:29
We're going to play our asses off every possession.
39:32
They do it. So I that's why it's been so fun
39:34
to watch OKC over the past couple seasons because the
39:37
arena, the crowd, the people, the team, the coach, it all
39:42
feels kind of like college esque.
39:44
And I think that feeling is the best and bring it to the, you
39:49
know, the pros is it's not very common.
39:53
Yeah. The other stat we're going to
39:55
bring up here real quick, the top 4 leaders for highest plus
39:59
minus of this last month. Coming in at #4 is Shay with a +
40:04
79. Coming in #3 is Karl Anthony
40:06
Towns with a + 83. Coming in #2 is Chet Hungren
40:10
with a + 89. Number one is Case and Wallace
40:13
with a + 104. Three of the top four in the
40:16
last month all are on OK C That is insane.
40:20
I mean we just go talk about this crazy defensive stat.
40:23
Now we're talking about a crazy all around stat.
40:25
Having three of the top four in the last month is just insane.
40:29
I mean all three of those guys have clearly made a big
40:31
difference with this team. Shay, of course, being you know,
40:34
our entire identity at times, but Cason leading the way to
40:37
plus one O 4 is really interesting to me.
40:39
What do you guys think? Yeah, I think Zapier enjoys
40:42
that, bringing Cason to the, you know, Cason's achieving a lot
40:47
this year. He's being noticed around the
40:49
league more, and it just lost for words with everybody on this
40:53
team. It's just everything's historic
40:55
and you got to stay in the moment.
40:56
And as a fan, I'm talking like stay in the moment, enjoy every
41:00
single game because these are the good old days I believe.
41:05
I was looking at the updated defensive ratings.
41:10
We have the six of the seven top defensive players currently.
41:14
So yeah, that's for the season, not just for, you know, the
41:21
month. I think SGA being in in there,
41:24
Ludort's having kind of a offseason.
41:27
He's still in the top ten. Obviously in the top 7.
41:29
He's 7th on that list, but I think that's still impressive
41:33
that we have that many players. The only other guy in there is
41:37
Kel L Ware, who I really like as well.
41:39
All right. Let's move on to our final topic
41:43
of the night. I'm going to kick it to SAP here
41:45
to kind of introduce it. I think this one should be a
41:47
good one. Yes, we're going to be moving
41:50
towards, I'm going to give my top three assets after you guys
41:54
because I don't want you guys copying me or getting any ideas,
41:58
but I want you guys to think really hard about this.
42:01
Who are your top three assets? I know you guys haven't had too
42:05
much prep on this, so I'm not going to go too hard on you
42:07
guys. But Joe, take it away.
42:09
Who do you think our top three assets are?
42:12
Or what are our top three assets?
42:14
It doesn't just have to be players.
42:15
I like, yeah, that's better. My first question before my
42:19
answer would be assets that could be potentially moved or
42:25
just assets on the team in general.
42:29
As buyers or sellers like us being the, I guess buyers of of
42:37
a potential move, what's our top three assets?
42:39
All right, our number one, everyone's going to hate me for
42:41
saying this. I'm kind of glad that it's
42:42
towards the end of the episode because our number one asset on
42:46
the scene that could be potentially moved is Jalen J Dub
42:51
Williams. And it's absolutely a fact.
42:55
I don't want to move from him. Obviously, I don't think OK C
42:58
has any plans on moving from him, but if you want a guy like
43:03
Giannis, if you want a *, if you want an absolute stud to pair
43:07
with SGA, the number one asset that could bring you anything
43:13
you want in return is Jalen Williams.
43:16
And that's a fact. I had to say it #2 I just think
43:21
the depth in general is our second biggest asset.
43:25
If there was a time where we had to move on from some players to
43:29
dump salary, if there was a time we had to move on from some
43:31
players to bring in a good role player, like a really good role
43:35
player. We have a bunch of guys, Isaiah
43:38
Joe's one. Uzman Jiang has been pretty
43:40
solid in his minutes recently. He's another one.
43:43
Obviously Aaron Wiggins is 1. So the depth in general, we can
43:47
move two of those guys and get one in return and still be a
43:52
fantastic team. When it comes to roster depth,
43:55
again, don't want to move on from any of them, but I I do
44:00
believe the amount of depth we have on the roster is another
44:03
asset. And the third one would be the
44:05
Los Angeles Clippers first round pick coming up in the next
44:08
draft. We can move it.
44:11
We could draft like a guy like AJ from BYU, or we could draft a
44:16
Boozer who's been getting a lot of heat recently.
44:19
They say he plays like AWNBA player.
44:21
So dumb, so dumb. He's going to be so good.
44:24
Realistically, the third best asset on the team right now is
44:27
that pick because they could do whatever they want with it,
44:30
Draft, trade, whatever they want.
44:33
Joe, if you had to choose a bench player, who's our best
44:38
bench asset? Yeah, best bench asset right now
44:41
might be Aaron Wiggins, I believe.
44:44
I think he's a starter on most teams.
44:46
I think he's an outstanding offensive player when he gets
44:49
the opportunity. And I don't think he's a bad
44:51
defender at all. He could shoot the ball, he
44:53
could create, He can get to the rim by himself.
44:55
I think it's Aaron Wigs. And he's a very good contract by
44:58
the way, too. Yeah.
44:59
All right, Gabe, who's who's our top three assets, man?
45:03
So I'm not going to, I might go back and rank them, but I'm just
45:07
going to give you 3. The three that I have right now,
45:10
I think one of them is absolutely going to be Aji would
45:13
hate to lose AJ, but I think there's a lot of teams around
45:15
the league that are kind of devastated that we got him at
45:18
pick 38. They're realizing the talent and
45:20
I think a lot of teams realize that he's the kind of player
45:22
that if you put him on a team and run an offense for him, he
45:25
could become a All Star in two years.
45:28
I mean, I would hate to get rid of him, but I think that is a
45:31
very, very valuable asset. Super young has proven a lot
45:35
clearly has an NBA ready play style that that one would suck.
45:39
After that is Aaron Wiggins. Same same exact thing.
45:41
So much potential for that guy. Like he's one of those guys that
45:44
I almost feel like I'm conflicted on myself having him
45:48
because I'm like, dude, imagine how good he could be if he was
45:51
on a different team. Like I'd love to see him succeed
45:53
somewhere. But I like his role with us.
45:56
I think he likes his role with us.
45:57
And that's, that's enough for me.
45:59
And then my last one is Oozman. I think a lot of people are
46:01
starting to buy in on the Oozman stock, which is interesting.
46:05
We've been watching the project player for four years.
46:08
It's been a long or five years. It's been a long project, but
46:12
there's a lot of things that are kind of undeniable with it was
46:14
the size is 1. That's insane.
46:16
Like the size and the way he plays is ridiculous.
46:19
He he does not move like the size he is kind of.
46:22
Plays like your your ex favorite player on OK C is what they're
46:25
comping him to right now. Don't even don't even put those
46:28
two in the same conversation. I like Oogeman, but PG is the
46:33
GOAT. But no Ooze.
46:35
Ooze has so many things that are going for him and the thing that
46:38
I think he's just missing is literally confidence.
46:40
Like having a team that will give him serious minutes and
46:44
starting to build that confidence.
46:45
I think he can become a really good player and I think there's
46:47
teams that see that one team that I can see absolutely buying
46:50
into him. I don't know why, but I feel
46:52
like Dallas is a place that he could end up going.
46:54
I feel like they have things that they could try to trade for
46:56
him if they wanted to. And I I think he would honestly,
47:00
I think he would flourish there. Like I think he would work
47:02
super, super well. So those are probably my three.
47:04
If I had to rank them, I'd probably do Aaron Wiggins, then
47:08
AJ, then who's. I think people have been
47:10
watching Aaron this last two years, specifically that Knicks
47:13
game. He really, really opened up some
47:15
eyes with the the fourth quarter performance.
47:18
But yeah, those, those are my 3 for sure.
47:20
All three are bench players. I get what you're saying, Joe,
47:22
saying that J Dub is a valuable asset.
47:25
I can't even think of those guys in that scenario because I don't
47:27
think there's a world where they would ever be even advertised as
47:30
an asset. So I can't even think about
47:32
that. I get what you're saying though.
47:34
But it there was a report the other day that if Giannis has
47:36
made available OKC as a team that is not interested.
47:39
I don't know how valid that report was, but I saw it, it was
47:41
getting posted around. So all three bench players for
47:44
me, all three guys that probably could go flourish on almost on
47:47
the other team if they were given the the spotlight.
47:51
Yeah. Any news around any big Giannis
47:54
trade? I'm not believing any of it.
47:57
We're not moving any of our Cordeau.
47:59
Not right now. Can't even believe you mentioned
48:01
it. When we are going to move it,
48:03
I'll let you know. I'm always a little one step
48:05
ahead on that, but we're not doing that anytime soon.
48:09
We got five more years of dominance.
48:11
But the three things that I'm going to mention, this is really
48:16
tough. So the 2026 pick I think is our
48:20
most valuable asset. Like when it comes to the draft
48:23
and how poorly teams evaluate draft talent, draft assets in
48:30
general, they just don't know the value of them.
48:33
They'll give up pretty much anything for a draft pick at
48:38
times. And then they'll draft shit too,
48:40
yeah. Exactly so, and no pick is ever
48:44
guaranteed in my personal opinion.
48:45
Like there's only been a few in NBA history where you're like,
48:49
oh, that's a no brainer. So that pick is really valuable
48:52
in general. Also, we have the 2027 Clippers
48:57
pick. So that's my second choice on
48:59
this list. And for my third asset to finish
49:05
it off here, it's definitely Kayson Wallace.
49:08
He's pretty much become my opinion lead DPOI candidate.
49:14
I think he's even leapfrogged chatting the conversation.
49:19
I think Wendy's going to end up missing a little bit too much
49:21
time or whatever, and I don't think anyone's even close to
49:25
Cason right now on the level of defense considering Alex isn't
49:29
getting the minutes that he should be.
49:31
And then Dort's been kind of hobbled to start the season by
49:36
the end of the year. If Cason just continues to stay
49:39
healthy, like he should definitely win DPOY and for that
49:43
reason he should be our most valuable asset along with the
49:46
fact that if we are ever going to be buyers or sellers, having
49:51
a DPOY level guard on the trade block, that is extension
49:56
eligible. So every time there's a player,
49:58
I always mention this about contracts when there's
50:01
extensions to be made or picked up or contracts coming to an
50:06
end, that's really the guys that I look at.
50:09
And considering his extensions coming up, I don't know our
50:14
situation on that because if he rises to that level of a player,
50:17
then the bonuses start adding up.
50:20
And I haven't honestly included him into any of my conversations
50:25
about cap space. And that's probably a big
50:27
mistake. I just didn't think he'd get to
50:30
this level of a player and like if he gets like first team and
50:34
DPOY and then he's extension eligible, he's gone.
50:40
Yeah, I think it's just going to be a really big problem.
50:42
I'm not going to say he's immediately gone.
50:44
Like I just think they'll end up paying him, but I think we'd end
50:47
up losing someone else in exchange for keeping him, to be
50:52
honest, with kind of the trajectory he's on this this
50:55
season. And I think that's probably
50:56
where it's going to end up going.
50:59
And that's why he's that valuable.
51:01
Also, as just a throw in for some more basketball knowledge
51:05
to end this off for you guys, I mentioned this before, we also
51:09
have The Mavericks 2028 pick. Do with that information what
51:13
you will because they are trying to move off Anthony Davis and
51:16
Kyrie Irving and go into a rebuild with a young squad.
51:20
So by 2028, they're going to be probably really bad and we'll
51:24
probably trade those picks for more Clippers picks.
51:26
Oh, they might be bad. I think Flag looks like the
51:28
truth right now. I think he looks real good.
51:30
They're so very bad, Joe, And you know, I'm never dishonest
51:36
about other teams. Yeah, you normally give them the
51:39
benefit of this notes, so. Yeah, yeah, they're going to be
51:41
ass. All right, Gabe, I think that
51:44
does it for us tonight. Wrap it up.
51:47
Yeah, absolutely. As always, thank you guys for
51:49
listening. We love doing these episodes.
51:50
You love being able to cover topics like this.
51:52
There wasn't as much news going on in the league this week, so
51:54
we really made sure to get you guys some interesting topics,
51:56
some good conversations and whatnot.
51:58
But as always, please guys, continue to check out our other
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52:15
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