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Asking for Help Saved My Life: A SWCC Veteran’s Journey Back · Veteran Wellness Podcast

• Isaac: 10 years into my career, I started noticing a lot of, like a lot of depression, a lot of like mood swings, also a lot of memory issues. And I didn't know what the hell was going on. the memory issues got really bad when I would to pick my kid up from school and I'd forget to put the car in park and get out of it, Or I would ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: drive home and park but forget to put the car in park and almost drive through my garage door. Or I would have my kid in the car to take them to school. and I would start driving to work and get halfway to work and realize I still have my kid in the car I went to a movie one time with the family and the day after the movie we were sitting watching TV and a commercial came on with a preview to the movie and I looked at my wife and I said, hey, that looks like a good movie. We should go see it. And she looked at me like, what are you talking about? We just watched it yesterday and I have no memory of ERIK: Isaac that doesn't know how to spell Smith Smith Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: And whose hair used to be blonde, but now you're a brunette. So I don't even know if it's really you. How are you doing? Isaac: Good, you know, I like the brunette. get sexier as I get older, no big deal. ERIK: Yeah. You were blonde back in the day when you were a you know, lean mean fighting machine and you pop up on the camera like, where's Isaac at? What the hell's going on here? So tell how we met back in the day. Isaac: Yeah, we met when I went through one of your training classes to go over foreign weapons. ERIK: Long time ago. Isaac: Yeah, that was a long time ago. was what, 20, I don't know. That was a long time ago. ERIK: Yeah, probably twenty years ago. Yeah. We're old. Isaac: Yeah, yeah, happens. ERIK: Yeah, yeah, but we've stayed connected for years. I mean, I I always loved Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: training you boat guys. I mean, intellectually you're s sharp, I mean mechanically, no one can touch you. Teaching you weapons was a joke. I mean, you you guys were spot on compared to your your brothers on the other side of the pier there, who would break an anvil with a ball peen hammer, you know? And Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: I was like, Let's Let's just train boat teams, you know, if we can. And I did for quite a while, but then they they always Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: come and go, you know. pretty Isaac: Yep. ERIK: much I think we had all the West Coast Coast boat teams there. So kinda explain what the the boats are in in SOF. Isaac: Yeah, so the boat teams are special warfare combatant crewmen. The special boat team is another part of Naval Special Warfare in the Navy. And we're maritime professionals. We are masters of the maritime environment. And our job is to navigate these small fast boats on the ocean, whether we're working with foreign nationals, SEALs, or doing our own missions. A lot of maritime interdiction stuff, intel collection and gathering. Yeah, we're just really, masters of the maritime environment. As you know, that can take a toll on a person. ERIK: I road on before and I'm like, I want off this Isaac: you ERIK: thing now and slow down. Yeah. Brutal. Isaac: Yeah. Yeah, it's yeah, it was you know, it was a really good career. I really enjoyed it. But it as you know, it does take a toll on the body. It's kind of an interesting story how I how I got into the SWIP community. I'd never planned on joining NSW when I joined the Navy. I joined the Navy right out of high school. I was supposed to go to boot camp on 9-11. Obviously that didn't happen. I got to boot ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: camp I think. I think I believe I swore on the 15th of September, but we couldn't catch flights until like the 17th to get the boot camp. So I originally joined to be a damage controlman. wanted to be a firefighter on a ship and then get out and be a firefighter. But my cousin was in the Navy in the nineties and I was talking to him and he, he was a seal. went through buds, you know, midway through his career. And so when I was At my DCA school, Damage Control A school, I was getting orders to Yakuza Japan and I called him and I was super excited about it. And he's like, don't do it. He's like, you're going to hate being on a ship. I was like, what? ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: goes, yeah, I was on a ship for four years before I went to Buds and. you're gonna hate it, trust me. He goes, go screen to go to Bud's. And I was like, all right, screen to go to Bud's. So I went and screened past the screening. And back then, there was a lot of animosity between the SEAL teams and the boat teams. ERIK: yeah. Isaac: The boat teams were like the redheaded stepchildren of NSW, right? So. I'm walking up these stairs. The guy was called the dive motivator. He would screen guys and get them to butts. And I see pictures of all these boats on the walls, we're walking up the stairs. And I've always loved small boats. And I asked him, said, hey, this is cool. Do you seals get to drive these boats? And he's like, no, no, those are swicks. You don't want ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: to do that. And I looked at him and I was like, actually, I do want to do that. I do want to go ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: drive these boats. And I wish I could have had a camera for the look on his face because obviously I was the first person to ever say that ERIK: I bet. Isaac: to him. And that was the beginning of my NSW career. ERIK: Wow. Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: Well, I mean you said you started with the Mark Vives. You know, I'll make sure we'll throw Isaac: You ERIK: an image up there of those. They're badass looking. But everything on is really hard. So when it's moving, you're moving and you kinda meet, you're the soft part. So explain that part. Isaac: Yeah, the Mark V was an awesome craft. It was the first craft I operated on. was an 82 foot boat and it was jet drive, you know, and we but back then like we weren't as smart on the impact from the waves and stuff as we are now. So when I first got to the Mark Vs, there were no shock seats on the boats. There was these seats that you would adjust to walk to your height and sit on and then you would just go for a ride, you know, and that ride can be in anywhere from three to eight to 10 foot seas sometimes, you know, and there was times that you would take a good hit. When I mean hit, you're like launching the boat on a wave and slamming down. where those seats would unlock under you and slam you to the deck of the boat. And then you're standing up in this horrible sea state trying to like lock the seat back in and you're getting slammed to the top of the boat and back down and you know multiple times during trips that would happen with those old seats. And then you would take, sometimes you'd take like side shots, going those speeds and you have these handles you would hang onto on your seat. Of course your ribs are taking that impact as you're hitting the side, you know. And you would ride like that for hours at a time. And it was, yeah. I mean, there was a time I, I mean, I've come off the water before and I've been, you know, pissing blood for a day or two afterwards because your kidneys just get beat up on them. ERIK: my. Isaac: But when you're young, you know, when you're 20 years old, 21 years old, you don't think that you're just like, Hey, this is awesome. I'm enjoying these really fast boats. And yeah, you get up the next morning and you feel like you've been hit by a truck, but you figure it's just, I always thought, it just up late. didn't get a lot of sleep. And that's why I feel like this, you know, but you know, you learn later on that it's that, know, when you're taking those impacts on the water, you imagine it's like hitting a brick wall at 60 miles an hour every, you know, one to three seconds for hours at a time. ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: is what kind of accumulates too. So ERIK: Every one of those is a TBI. Isaac: yeah, that's what they found out. I would be much smarter right now if it wasn't for those boats. Yeah. ERIK: Yeah, okay. Well you joined the navy, so we know there was something there to start with, so like yeah. Smarty pants, but but that is mzillions of micro concussions. Isaac: Yeah, yeah, it's a lot. They've been doing research and a lot more research has come out, you know, now that it's a lot. It's, know, I've probably had millions of those, you know. ERIK: Well and as you brought up, you you got heavy weapons on that boat too. So every Isaac: Yep. ERIK: one of those, every time you squeeze f the butterfly, you're you're catching a micro concussion there too. So you're you're into the who knows how many brain impacts. Isaac: Yeah, yeah, and the Mark Vs, we had twin 50s on those. We could have up to four twin 50s on those boats or any different kind of configuration, but we mainly had twin 50s on them. And so you're sitting there shooting two 50s at a time. ERIK: Brutal. Yeah, and and what did you have for Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: EarPro? Do you have pelters or what what? Isaac: I like foamies, you know, and then foamies and then like, and then we would have, yeah, yeah, so we'd have foamies, but then ERIK: you're kidding. so your tinnitus is as bad as mine. Isaac: we had a headset on that we could like talk, you know, to the rest of the guys on the boat with, but ERIK: Yeah, cum combo, yeah. Isaac: yeah, but that wasn't, I mean, it still didn't do much for hearing protection. ERIK: wow. Yeah, my tinnitus is outrageous. And and that's the one thing no one can figure out. But it's maddening. Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: and if you're a little dehydrated, it's even worse. Or if you're around power lines, it's worse. I mean it's like, ugh, brutal. But with the TBIs, I mean, you got other guys that have had really bad effects from that. I mean, examples. Isaac: Yeah, mean, I've had bad, I'll use myself as an example. ERIK: Yeah, yeah. Isaac: So about 10 years into my career, I started noticing a lot of, like a lot of depression, a lot of like mood swings, also a lot of like memory issues. And I didn't know what the hell was going on. Like the memory issues got really bad when I would like. go to pick my kid up from school and I'd forget to put the car in park and get out of it, right? Or I would ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: drive home and park but forget to put the car in park and almost drive through my garage door. Or I would have my kid in the car to take them to school. and I would start driving to work and get halfway to work and realize I still have my kid in the car and go, know, stuff like that. And then there were times where, like I've gone to Disneyland with the family and have no memory of going to that Disneyland trip. I went to a movie one time with the family and the day after the movie we were sitting watching TV and a commercial came on with a preview to the movie and I looked at my wife and I said, hey, that looks like a good movie. We should go see it. And she looked at me like, what are you talking about? We just watched it yesterday and I have no memory of it. And that's ERIK: Wow. Isaac: like... And then I realized something was, once all that started happening, I was like, okay, this is not, there's something wrong up here. Something's not right. And it was affecting work. It was affecting work too, know? And I couldn't make, I was having a lot of problems just making decisions anymore. And I was like, what the hell is going on with me? And come to find out, a lot of cumulative TBIs. ERIK: so y you got all these T B I's you're forgetting things. Did you go to any like brain treatment center or get an evaluation? What'd you do? Isaac: so once I got to what we call a short-ruty command where I wasn't deploying, I went through NICO up in Bethesda, National Center, National Entrepreneurial Center of Excellence is what it is, which was great because NICO's very good at diagnosing what's going on. So, you know, I was there for a month and they're like, yeah, you have... you have some TBI issues of what's going on. So I was like, okay, this was going on. Like it's, I'm not going crazy. There is something, you know, going on with my brain. And then after that, I went to the home base program in Boston. ERIK: okay. Isaac: and they have a ERIK: Yep. Isaac: two week program there that deals with that. At the time, the program dealt a lot with PTSD and TBI. So I was dealing with really both of those things. More on the TBI side though. And then I just started being more cognizant of like, you know what? I was like eating, taking more supplements that are good for the brain, and really just trying to use the skills they taught me to help with like memory issues. So, you know, ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: one of the issues with getting all the TBIs is that it caused me to have ADHD. So that was adding to the issue as well. ERIK: Huh, no kidding. Isaac: yeah. Yeah, it's... ERIK: Did you see results from all those? I mean Isaac: Some, the depression, anxiety, and mood swings were still there. That was one thing I had a big trouble with dealing with. And that really took a toll after I retired. I really started to, because when you're, you know, when you're in, you're in a rhythm, right? So don't realize a lot of this stuff because a lot of the stuff you do is habit at this point. You've been doing it for so ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: long, you keep doing it. And then you get out and go into, you know, corporate America. and you're doing stuff and people are looking at you like, what are you doing? know, what's ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: wrong with this guy? And that's when I really started to notice a lot of, a lot more of my cognitive issues I was having. Yeah, and that's when things really took a turn for the worse. I really started drinking very heavily. ERIK: Yep. Isaac: My depression got really bad and... Yeah, I was up to the point where I just didn't want to exist anymore. I was ready for it to be over. ERIK: Yep. Isaac: And that's when I reached out for help to a buddy of mine. And he got me on this psychedelic journey I'm on now that's saved my life. So, yeah. ERIK: Yeah. That's a common common theme right there. yeah, Isaac: Yep. ERIK: ex explain how you started into that and it how it it's almost like a light switch Isaac: . ERIK: w once you're kinda understanding it. Isaac: Yeah, a buddy of mine retired a couple years before I did, and I remember him saying, hey, if you ever get to the point where things get really bad and you need help and the therapy and the meds aren't working, there are organizations out there using psychedelics to heal. And, I'd never done psychedelics growing up. I was always taught they were bad. You know, they're a drug. ERIK: Yep. Yep. Isaac: So when I got to my low, low point, I reached out to my buddy and was like, hey, like I need, I need help, man. I don't know what else to do. I've tried everything and all the mental health meds I was on through the VA, you know, they would. They made me, they made it worse. felt numb. I felt like ERIK: Num. Isaac: I was just existing. And then, you know, they give you this med and then they give you this med to counteract the effects of this med. And then they give you another med to counteract the effects. So ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: you're just taking a handful of meds, you know, every day that, they aren't doing anything. So. I was like, hey, who do need to reach out to? What do need to do? he told me about vets and I signed up through vets and they sent me down to Mexico to go through ambio's protocol with Ibogaine. ERIK: Okay. Isaac: And it was my first time doing a psychedelic. And it was, you know, and starting ERIK: It's yeah. Both feet. Isaac: with... Yeah, and starting with Ibogaine, you know, that's like the most powerful plant medicine, and that was my first ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: one. So I just dove straight into the deep end with it. But it was the best decision I ever made. It was like getting, you know, 10 plus years of therapy in one night. And the weight that was lifted off of me from that experience was amazing because it made me realize how much anger and hate I had been holding on to. And it was mainly like towards myself and I didn't realize it. You know, I had so much anger ERIK: Mm-hmm. Isaac: and hate built up towards myself that that was really affecting me and I didn't realize that until I had that journey and I was able to just shed all of that and let it go. And it was it was like I had a thousand pounds lifted off of me that night, you know. ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: And then, you know, day and a half later you do the 5-MEO DMT, which opened my heart up. Like it showed me that ERIK: Yeah. Yeah. Isaac: there's love out there and it showed me I could love myself again. And by doing that, love other people and really show my family the love I hadn't been showing them for so many years. You know, and after that, I that was the first time I had cried in 20 years, you know, because, ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: you know, we get trained to compartmentalize everything and to keep moving and to not feel emotion. And, you know, that's what we do for 20 years. And actually that's looking back, that's so detrimental to like, it's horrible, you know? So ERIK: Horrible. it's horrible. Horrible. Yeah. Isaac: I went, you know, 20 years being trained really not to show emotion or anything. And then I was able to just release all that and let it go. And God, it was a beautiful experience. Like, saved my life. Yeah. Yeah. ERIK: Wow. Yeah, it does. It it is life saving. Yeah, I I had to go down to Ambio a couple of years ago myself, same reason. Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: But I had I had started out like a year or two before, with an ayahuasca retreat. that's fucking jumping in hard too, you know. That's like, whoa. Isaac: The end is. ERIK: 'Cause I'd never even smoked a joint in my life. I mean, still haven't. You know, so I had only alcohol, you know, Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: as a as a comparative and it's not comparative at all. but yeah, Ambio you did that and then you did the follow up DMT down there. Yeah. It gives you a little more perspective Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: of your consciousness and and why you're Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: here and what what everything is and it and then you go, Okay, now I can work on my physical body, you know, my Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: brain issues, my my detox in the body, 'cause as I was talking with you earlier about the you guys around them damp boats, there's all kinds of chemicals, you know. Diesel Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: oil, I mean the fumes you said, would just suck a nose up that's straight to your lungs, straight into your blood. You know, with that, the boat team should be detoxing constantly. They should be in a damn infrared sauna every day soaking that stuff out because I can Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: imagine the saturations of P.O. L you have in you that's gonna cause a cancer or something later. There's just no way around it, you know. Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: So I hope they're you you mentioned they got what the human performance teams now to where they're taking a lot of this into account. But I really hope the detox goes a long way too. Isaac: Yeah. Yeah, it's been quite a journey, man. and you know the... the boats, I know if I've heard this, I was part of a study on these boats back in like 2005 timeframe. ERIK: Hmm, no. Isaac: You know, and we had, think it was the University of Ohio came out and like we want to do a study on these boats and see the, see the like, the impact you guys take on these boats. What's the G force you're taking? And for ERIK: my gosh. Isaac: like a week straight, we'd go in every morning, we'd pee in a cup, they'd take our blood, we'd do these different movement exercises so they could monitor us. And then we'd go out on the boats for hours at a time and just operate. And I remember coming in one morning. getting ready and they sat us all down and these scientists looked at us and they were like, we have a question for you, just one question. And so we're like, okay, what is it? And they're like, how are you guys alive right now? ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: And we're like, what do you mean? They're like. technically you should be dead. Because the night before we had broke every accelerometer on the boat, max to max. ERIK: I my gosh. Isaac: And so they were just dumbfounded that we were up again the next day going out and doing this. Like nothing had happened. Yeah. ERIK: Wow, wow. Yeah, I know, but that was the culture, you know. The Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: same you know, y breaching was the same way, jumping was the same way, you guys on in damn boats, you know, motorcycling, crash banging. None of it's good for you long term. I would love to see that study. I I bet they were just aghast at at the results. that would be stupendous to see. Isaac: Yeah, I think I have a copy of it. I think I have a copy of it. I'll send it to you. Yeah. Yeah. ERIK: Yeah, PDF that sucker. Wow. 'Cause they they probably they probably didn't know what to think. Isaac: Yeah, well, and for a long time, they did studies on these boats for a long time, but they never did anything with the studies. Yeah, we started ERIK: Mm. Isaac: getting these shock seats, right, which was great. But even the shock seats, they only help to an extent, right? ERIK: Didn't help your brain. Isaac: It doesn't help your brain, no. Because every time ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: you take that impact, even though your head stops moving, your brain is still sloshing around inside your skull. ERIK: Yeah, it's it's in l it's in fluid, Isaac: Yeah, ERIK: yeah. Isaac: yeah, and then you figure you have your Mitch helmet on, you have your nods on, you have the counterweight to your nods on, and just taking these impacts non-stop. Like I'm surprised we didn't break our necks. yeah, I've ERIK: Yeah. your neck has to be a wreck. Yeah. Isaac: got compression issues with my neck and my back. ERIK: Well, I'm sure tons of the guys are all fused. I mean, there's no way around it. my gosh. Yeah. Isaac: yeah. Yeah, yeah. Luckily I haven't had to have like any surgeries like that, but a lot of my buddies have. ERIK: I believe it. Yeah, because you you hit wrong one time. You know, my my worst spine injury is compression, you know. we were acting like seals and raiding ships and jumping off of and doing this and that. And I'm like, dude, we're not this in our boat, you know. It's not what we do. And my worst injury. Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: I'm like, damn it, I knew it. You know, I manifested that, son of a bitch. So since you did the ambo What else have you kind of incorporated 'cause you gotta create some kind of s personal system in some way. Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: from what I've seen, everybody has to do. Isaac: Yeah, so after Ambio, I was told about the Wisdom Dojo, this non-profit called the Wisdom Dojo. And the Wisdom Dojo is there to teach guys meditation who have gone through psychedelics because it really helps with the integration afterwards. And so within a couple weeks after Ambio, I started the Wisdom Dojo and meditating. And it's been a huge part of my healing journey. You know, I've been doing it now for... three and a half, four years, to the point where I'm an instructor for the wisdom dojo now. And meditation is a thing I practice every day. And I just love it because there's a lot of value in it and it's very meaningful work. I've been through... what these guys coming in the dojo are going through right now. Right? So ERIK: Mm-hmm. Isaac: I get to also help them with their journey of healing and meditation is big part of that. And Wisdom Dojo, let me show up here. You know, yeah, ERIK: Yeah. Pimp it baby. Yeah. Isaac: it is an amazing nonprofit. And we've had, we've put over 500 guys through the training so far. and we keep putting more through. It's amazing. And it's, I credit the Wisdom Dojo to really my healing journey. You know, my teacher is an amazing man. both of them actually they're both amazing and I can still go to both my teachers if I have any issues or problems you know they're always going to be there to listen. The dojo community is amazing we're we're all in this healing journey together I mean once you graduate the first like what we call the fundamental training it's 10 weeks of training then you're invited to weekly practices and I mean we have a ERIK: Nice. Isaac: lot of times 50 plus guys that show up to these group meditation trainings you know that we get to practice together and then there's We have retreats that we can go on as well, community retreats and solitary retreats. ERIK: Hm. But it's normally via Zoom. Isaac: It's normally via Zoom, Yep. ERIK: Yeah, okay. Yeah, no excuses then. Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: Yeah. Well, I mean, and that's where, you know, we've all kind of come to these same conclusions different ways. You know, and like when I used Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: to teach you guys, I would try to teach you the principles, not the specifics. If I Isaac: Yep. ERIK: taught you how the weapon worked, you could look at any weapon and go, that's how this works. I don't care its name. I can make it Isaac: Yep. ERIK: function. You know, and that's what we have to do with this health and wellness too. You know, you gotta go with and you've done it with the psychedelics, you've understood your consciousness, you know, you've seen the bigger picture. And the Isaac: No. ERIK: people that haven't, it you can't explain it. But it let Isaac: Yep. ERIK: me calm down and go, shit, now I know what I can work on and why on the physical side. Because you didn't have that perspective prior. But we've already damaged the physical side so much, we have to really lean into a serious protocol of cleaning everything up we didn't do for decades. You know. And that's I call it daily detox. But if I'm out of my cycle, I I I get like a curmudgeon, you know. I'm like, I want to do what I do. I wake up really early in the morning so I can do it and not convenience anybody else. And by the time they wake up, I've done my maybe two hours of my little protocols. And then you can get your day rolled, you know. Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: And you know, like I was telling you pre-show there about fasting, you know, I I still think the dementia and the Alzheimer's is a culmination of never detoxing and you having injuries and you're scarring tissues up in the brain. And there's no way if you never try to eliminate that scarring, how is it gonna get better? It's not gonna get better. There's no way. And also with the different psychedelics like mushrooms or Things that reconnect neuron pathways. You know, the Ibogaine, remember how that hits your head first and you just the buzzing and the reconnection of Isaac: Mm-hmm. Yep. ERIK: brain tissue and neurons, you're like, what the fuck is going on here? You know, I'm like, I've never Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: seen gold tracers before, but here they come. And Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: but then we have t that does the the spiritual and emotional, but you have to do the physical. And I think the physical is fasting. I really do. Because if you can cause your body to eat unneeded proteins or scar tissue or whatever, that's there too. And the brain's very Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: active. The brain's very hungry. So, you know, that that's my theory. I can't prove it, but you know, no one can say it doesn't make sense either. Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: 'cause what religion doesn't have like a forty day fast in it. They're they're for a reason. Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: You know, it's to cleanse the body, to to clean up the brain and And people that fast are pretty much healthier. You know, people that meditate are healthier. People that eat good are healthier. So Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: like how you gonna second guess this common sense shit that we have to turn into a protocol? So Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: I I'm trying to harp to get guys to learn it easier up front, you know, kinda like a program versus everybody individually on their own survival exercise. You know, and you had somebody to call. You know, if if you Isaac: Yeah. Yeah. ERIK: wouldn't have had that guy to call, w you know, what would you have done? Isaac: I don't know. don't, you know, ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: maybe I wouldn't be here today, you know? You know? And so, ERIK: Correct. I'm with you, buddy. Yeah. Isaac: yeah. And really, like, I think... I think it should be a protocol for dudes, for anyone in active duty to be able to go to these programs who are dealing ERIK: yeah. Isaac: with this, you know, like, you know, not necessarily like legalize it, but decriminalize it or make it okay for. for active duty to be like, hey, I need a therapy that's gonna work. This stuff you're giving me right now isn't working. Like, ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: can I go down to Mexico and do this? ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: And not have them get in trouble for it because, and the shit works. I'm living, you know? And what's ERIK: I know there's no doubt in my mind. No. Yeah. Isaac: cool about Ibogaine, right, is Ibogaine, it's shown to heal the brain. So, you know, they did the whole Stanford study in guys with ERIK: Yes. Yep. Isaac: signs of TBI in their MRIs when they went back after Ibogaine, they were gone, right? ERIK: Yeah, yeah. Isaac: was healed and like I've been down the ambio you know I would go down and support guys who are going through their journey ERIK: nice. Isaac: and I remember there was this one guy there and he had done something to his knee and he could hardly walk and it was super swollen and the morning after his journey his knee was fine the pain was completely gone and he was walking and he said during his journey he just saw these people working on his knee and ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: like and he was like he could have ran a marathon the next day. know, it's, ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: so Ibogaine can help with pain as well. It's amazing what that stuff does, you know, and they're in, what's ERIK: Well Isaac: crazy is we're still learning what this medicine can do. Yeah. ERIK: We have no idea. We have no I have seen it all, buddy. I mean I have tried all the different ones at different retreats or different clinics and they all do something different. And they Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: do what you need, not what you want. You know what I mean? Yeah, you can have an intention, sunshine, Isaac: Exactly, like that's what I tell guys, you know? ERIK: but let me know how it works out. Isaac: Let me tell you what, I've gone in all the journeys I've done, I've always gone in with an intention and not once has it acknowledged that intention. It's like, no, we're gonna do this today. ERIK: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You don't even know what we're working on, Sunshine. But good try. Yeah. No, and that's it Isaac: Yep, exactly. ERIK: that's part of the positive mindset too. And also eliminating a fear. Your people have fear, and fear is self induced. You know, Isaac: Yep. ERIK: I mean look at the shit we did militarily. I had no fear, but now somebody'd be scared to try mushrooms. It's like you can't die from mushrooms. Isaac: Yeah, you know, it's ERIK: It's it doesn't work that way. Isaac: Exactly. It's crazy because was very afraid to go into my Ibogaine journey. I was actually more afraid to ERIK: Bet. Isaac: go in. I was actually, I was more afraid to go into my five journey, right? Because it's, and I think a lot of it was, I didn't know what was going to go on in my mind. I think I was more afraid of my mind, you know, than anything. ERIK: Yeah. Yeah. But that's self induced, yeah. Isaac: It is self-induced, and it was, like I said, like when you're in there, the medicine, you know, shows you what you need to see at that point in time. And, ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: you know, it helped me deal with a lot of stuff that I didn't know I needed to deal with, you know? And, yeah. ERIK: Well no, you've you've tamped it down so much, you know, and and tons of this stuff is childhood stuff. You know, there's no way around it. You know, the the worst that is, I mean Isaac: Exactly. Yeah, like there was a, yep. ERIK: it i SOCOM wouldn't exist if it wasn't for bad childhoods. Isaac: You know what, you're 100 % right, because most the dudes going into any type of soft profession all have childhood trauma. that's, that's, Yep. Yeah. ERIK: Yep. Yeah, the broken toys wanting to prove themselves or or get killed in a good way. And yeah, I d I know one or two and they're doing phenomenal. I'm like, Yeah, whatever. Anybody could had a good childhood, buddy, you know. I'm like, they're doing spectacular 'cause they don't have that baggage, you know. But we Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: can eliminate that baggage. We can drop that rucksack, we can kick it out, and but you gotta You gotta cross that internal fear of the unknown. 'Cause Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: you're not gonna know. That's the whole point of unknown, you know. Isaac: Yep. ERIK: But look how much you've learned since then. It's been amazing, I'm sure. I mean, I can't put it in words. Yeah. Isaac: it's been a beautiful journey. Yeah. And there's really, there's really is no way to explain or to put it in words, right? It's just something you have to experience yourself and go through. And yeah, ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: you know. ERIK: Yeah, what but how we get there is is what I wanna work on. You know, is Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: to educate guys sooner than later. I love your idea of letting guys on active duty do it. I I don't care, you know, if they're they're above twenty, I mean I I see no downside to it. Because if Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: you can eliminate it sooner it's gonna be way better in the long run, you know. I told Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: you I I saw, you know, I went hunting with an old Vietnam vet buddy back when I was like sixteen, you know. This was in the eighties. And he just sat down and started crying. And I'm like, what in the hell is going on here? So Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: I'd never seen that in my life. And I'm Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: sixteen. I'm like, I don't know what to fucking do. So I just sat there and Isaac: You ERIK: hoped a lot, you know. And after about thirty minutes he quit and he goes, Yeah, that happens once in a while and then everything was fine. And then when it happened to me years later, I'm like, my God, I know exactly what was going down, dude. You Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: know, and he just had no way to release. And something caused him to do a release, you know, and it just been there, done it, buddy. You know, and I I'd much rather do it in a clinical format with some integration afterwards, with some understanding and somebody that can walk you through it. Then do it by yourself and then kinda figure it out and not know what's going on. It's kinda silly, you know, it's illogical. Isaac: Yeah, yep. Yeah, I mean, there would be, I think a lot more people would be alive today had they had access to psychedelics, you know, or if they knew it was even ERIK: Yes. Hundred percent. Hundred percent. Isaac: an option, you know. And that's why, like, I always... ERIK: Yeah. Well, and that's where, you know, they don't want us to mention it. And I'm like, Did you have to mention it? I'm sorry. You Isaac: Yep. Yeah. ERIK: know, when I put it in a book or something, they're like, I don't know, man. It's like, Whatever, dude. You know, I'm like, you're so far behind the times, I don't even want to hear it. I I mean the VA's doing studies, Stanford's doing studies. It's been happening for thousands of years. You know, it's like, eggs aren't good for you now. Shut up, you know. Yeah, okay, mushrooms aren't either. You know, no mushrooms and no Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: eggs. You're like, stop it. You know, you and Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: your moron, it's fad news of the day. Isaac: You ERIK: things that are standards are the standards. You know, in microdosing versus hero dosin, whatever. I don't want to hear the arguments. You know, but the meditation is free. Fasting is free. Water is free. Isaac: Yes. Yeah. ERIK: I mean, the excuses are really getting eliminated quickly. And I've never had anybody do a fast properly and regret it. They've all been amazed. I've never had anybody do a journey properly and regret it. You know, now if you don't do it correctly, yeah, it can be bad. You know, you you know, whatever. If you don't drink any electrolytes with your water during a fast, yeah, you're gonna have some issues. We're an electrical. machine. We have to fire neutrons, you know, through the body there. And but if you start drinking the salt water, the brain clears up, the headache goes away, blah blah blah, you know. And Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: yeah, but I don't know. I mean I don't know a lot of boat guys 'cause not a lot of us stayed in connection. Me and you did, you know, but those guys have to be a wreck, you know, just Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: neurologically. Isaac: Yeah, you know, and I bring up, anytime I talk to old buddies or just any veteran I meet, I always bring up psychedelics just to spread the word about them. ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: Sometimes they'll look at me like I'm crazy. ERIK: Yeah, yeah. Of course. Yeah. Isaac: But at least I've told them about it and told them that it is an option, right? So it's in the back of their mind if they ever need it. And that's really... why I bring it up is, you I don't care if they do psychedelics. For people, some people, they're like, no, I'm not going to do it. And that's okay, right? Not everyone gets called to do it. But ERIK: Yeah, yeah. Isaac: I just like to inform people about it so they know that it is an option. Because it was, had my buddy not told me about it, like I said, like... Who knows if I'd be here today, you know? Because it saved my life. Yeah, they saved my life. ERIK: Yeah. That's a common story. Yeah, yeah. Me too. Yeah, me too, buddy. And that's where I mean, you'll see some of these other interviews I've done with some guys way more senior than us, been to more places than us, and they're like, a Isaac: Mm-hmm. ERIK: hundred percent, do it. You know, they they got me into it. I mean, one of my old old agency buddies, he was SF for twenty five years, agency this and that. He goes, Eric, I'm gonna have a retreat up in my house in like a month. You're coming. I'm like, retreat? You know, we don't retreat. He goes, No dumbass. You know? He goes, it's we're Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: gonna do ayahuasca. I'm like, I what? And I went Isaac: you ERIK: and after the first trip, all my anxiety was gone. I'm like, Whoa, there's something to this. And I did every night Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: of the five night journey, buddy, and I was wore out. but his story Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: is hilarious. I mean, I won't I won't prompt it, but when you watch his Dave Lamort, he's a hoot, man. But he is full into it now. He does his own retreats. He has his own like little little place in Virginia. And he's helping a lot of people. And you would never suspect a guy with this background would go straight healer. But I think we all go from warriors to healers. I think it's pretty natural Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: actually. You know, and I love putting info out. I mean that's I've always done that, but this is my new tangent with these podcasts. We'll be able to reach a bunch of people, Isaac, you know. And if they do it, they do it. If they don't, they don't. You know. Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: But we're doing our part, you know, we're not sitting in the closet whispering and helping nobody. So that Isaac: Yeah. Yeah, and what's, and what I've learned with this community that I'm in now, right, especially like the vets and dojo community. Like, soft guys in general, man, like, it's weird. We have like the biggest hearts that I've learned. Like, you know, like it's insane. Like how much like ERIK: Yes. totally. Yeah. Yeah. Isaac: love is shown within this community. And like, you know, some people might look at us like we're crazy, like it's, it's amazing. Like it's the first time in my life I've been in a community where I can, you know, like openly speak about how my heart feels and just. ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: show the love and everyone's like that, you know, and it's ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: amazing. I just think like, if everyone in the world was like this, like, it'd be a completely different place, you know? Yeah, they would. Yeah. ERIK: yeah. The team rooms would be a little different, you know. They'd be a little more gentle. Be less fist fights, you know. But yeah, no, I mean you're gonna see some of these where I've known these guys. I my buddy I just interviewed this morning, I've known him thirty five years. We we were privates together in SF and we're all coming to the same conclusions, totally non coordinated, you know. Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: And I'm like, this is just weird, man. But that's where I want guys to know it sooner. because it'll save the divorces, it'll save the suicides, it'll save the fistfights. I mean, it's just we didn't know how to cope with anything except for violence and alcohol. Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: And that doesn't work out typically in in my history or your history or anybody's history. I don't I don't think that's been the go-to that worked. But that was Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: what we were taught. 'Cause w our our mentors, that's what they did and you know, and I want this this type of instruction taught formally, you know, at command levels, you know, and they're trying to do Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: that with fitness and nutrition and all that, way better than we were. I mean, Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: w we were studs, but we were drunks. Isaac: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Like, yeah, get off the water. You ERIK: Yeah. And it Isaac: just drink yourself to sleep that night and then get up and do it again the next day, you know? Yeah. Yep. ERIK: Yeah, and it was it was acceptable. If you didn't drink, you're a pussy, you know. You know, like ps I haven't drank in years, man. I feel fine. I I feel better than ever. You know. Isaac: Yeah. Yeah. ERIK: yeah, look nineteen, you know. I mean, gee, don't look a day over eighty six, you know. But but I don't Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: know. I mean, I I like I like hearing, you know, you came to this kind of all on your own with a little bit of assistance, but with you you know, going through the wisdom dojo, you're touching who knows how many people. And then it just Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: it's a force multiplier, man. That's what we're supposed to do in SOF, is force multiply. Isaac: Yeah, and it's kind of what's kind of cool is I'm working on another project with a buddy of mine right now. It's a guy I used to work with and We were both laid off from the same company at different times, but he started getting into acting and stuff. I was one day at breakfast talking with him and telling him my story. And he's like, hey, we should make a short film about this. And ERIK: hell yeah. Isaac: so I gave him my story and then he rewrote it. So it kind of like touches all. veterans what they've been through and ERIK: Yeah, yeah, generalize it. Isaac: generalize it. Yeah and we're trying to get funding for it now but he wants to start filming it in December. ERIK: Well you and I talk offline about that. I'll connect you with a couple of people that might help you with that. Isaac: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Cause it was, mean, it's, read the script and it brought me to tears. was like, Holy shit, man. You know? And yeah. ERIK: Well, of course. Yeah, you know the s you know the story, buddy. Isaac: And it's about, you know, it's, it's going to be called no one comes home. Right. Which I think is an amazing title for it because we, do come home, but we don't. Right. Yeah. ERIK: I I heard I changed. I mean, I I noticed that. I was like, really? No kidding. Three wars? Huh. Shock. Isaac: Yeah, yep. And it kind of goes through this story of this guy going on deployment, seeing some stuff coming home, being distant from his family, and then finding psychedelics to help heal him. yeah, yeah, so it's gonna be a, yeah. ERIK: yeah, we c we'll get this financed buddy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. Yeah. It won't cost much, really, in the big picture. Isaac: He wants me to play myself in it, which is gonna be. ERIK: You are. You have Isaac: Interesting. ERIK: to. Isaac: I'm going to. Yeah, I just got to find a younger version of myself to play the young version of me. I know. ERIK: No, you're it. Yeah. Just go back to blonde, just dye your hair again. I'm I'm telling you, dude, I'm like, You don't have brown hair. Who is this dude? On I'm like, Why are you why are you dying your hair for the podcast? I'm like, It's weirdo. Isaac: Pretty soon I'm gonna shave it man. It's gonna be gone pretty soon. I told my mother-in-law Yeah, yeah ERIK: the five head is getting into a six head, buddy. I I was like, Ugh, I've held it a long time, so I've got a Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: at least ten years on you, so I don't wanna hear it. But Isaac: No, I'm gonna for my mother-in-law when she starts losing her hair from chemo I'm gonna I told her I'd shave my head for her. So ERIK: There you go. Yeah. Isaac: maybe you'll be blonde when I shave it again, who knows? ERIK: I don't know. He threw me off, dude. I'm like, hey, where's Isaac? I'm like, that's not Isaac. I remember Isaac. I guess this scrawny tall guy with blonde hair. I'm like, wait wait a minute here. Isaac: You ERIK: Got an imposter on the on the pod. Yeah. Isaac: Hahaha ERIK: Well, I love that that would be a good messaging campaign, you know, and then w nowadays Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: we can push it out a million different ways. and Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: I I don't care if people tell the same message. I really don't care. Just so we get more out there. You know, a lot of my podcasts Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: end up being the same talking points from a different perspective. But a guy might need to hear it a different way. You know, it's Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: good instruction. You might have to say it five different ways for the guy to go, got it. Pull the charger handle back, Isaac: Exactly. ERIK: you know, palm up. Why? Just just do it. You know, here's why, you know, I mean and Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: if we gotta harp on different angles, who cares? You know, they they can click Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: end, you know, but I'm gonna pump these out until you know, I end or, you know, this this isn't going away. but I think we we can catch guys sooner. And you can pimp Isaac: Yeah, and there's a ERIK: it out to N S W. You know, I don't know a lot of guys there anymore. They're all gone. They're all retired. You know. But, you know Isaac: Yeah, and there's a lot of organizations out there, know, doing this type of work now, right? Not just Vets, you know, Vets ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: is for like soft, but you have the Heroic Hearts project, you know, and they do psilocybin and they, ERIK: Yeah, I don't want to limit it. Isaac: yeah, you know, and they have, and then the mission within, beyond, like there's a ton of them out there. And there's more, you know, that I didn't, there's more that I know I'm forgetting, you know. ERIK: there's thousands, dude. there's zillions. Yeah. Isaac: You know, like Her Oak Arts Project, I went down to Peru and did Ayahuasca with them, which was, you know, yeah. And that was after I began. Yeah. Yeah, that was a, ERIK: really? Well you didn't mention that. Go go into that, man. That's the real deal. I did it in Nevada, you know. Isaac: yeah, I did it down in Peru at a place called La Medicina, a beautiful place out in the middle of the jungle. You know, and it was, was kind of neat to be doing the journey when like the night jungle animals would be out, you know, and ERIK: Yeah, no kidding. Isaac: yeah, very, very much connected with. grandmother Aya, like the spirit, you know, the source. ERIK: Source. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. Isaac: It was an amazing experience. Some of the stuff I thought I'd completely dealt with with Ibogaine came up again in that journey, you know, and ERIK: Huh. yeah no. Isaac: it was extremely healing. Yeah. ERIK: Yeah. Aya is very healing. Yes. Isaac: Yeah, it was three nights in a row of AYA. yeah, I was like, wow, you know, like, it's coming from Ibogaine, I was worried about doing three nights back to back, because you know, the day after Ibogaine, you're down hard. Like it is, you are wrecked exactly. But you know, ERIK: You're wrecked. Yeah. Yeah. Isaac: AYA is what, a four to six hour journey, you know, and then four hours, know, ERIK: Four hours, yeah, six hours, yeah. Isaac: and then you're done and you're like, okay, I feel okay, you know. ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: But yeah, so, yeah. ERIK: Yeah, they're all different. And that's where, you know, you can't paint all with the same brush. They all do a different Isaac: Yep. ERIK: thing, they're all different frequency, they all purge different things or heal different things. And you can't tell it what to do. You know? Like, stop it. You know, you you don't Isaac: Nope. Yep. ERIK: have control now, Sunshine. You're you're on the railroad and it's not stopping until you're done. And Isaac: Exactly. ERIK: every night's different. Isaac: Every night is different and every night you just have to... Yep. ERIK: Every night's different you don't know what you're gonna work on, buddy. It might be easy, you might fall asleep, or you might just be in pure hell for a couple hours and Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: get over it. You that's what you gotta do. I did a lot of purging, buddy. A lot of purging. Yeah. Isaac: Yeah, me too. And the hardest part, the hardest part too about doing these journeys is just fully giving into it. Because your ego wants to fight it, you know? ERIK: Yep, that's it. Yes, sir. Isaac: But the meditation practices have helped me. Now these other journeys I've done, it's a lot easier for me to go into the journey and just completely give into the medicine and be like, okay, take over. Show me what I need to see. ERIK: Yeah, I think. Yeah. Yep. That's a hard thing for the newbies to understand. 'Cause Isaac: Yep. ERIK: they they don't want to do that. And I'm like, dude, that's that's part of it. I mean that's that's one of the Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: biggest parts is being able to surrender to the process. And you'll you'll appreciate it later, but you won't like it right now. You gotta cross that breach point. Isaac: Yeah, and it's getting past that ego and really getting to the point where you have that dissolution of ego, right? Because you don't, in a lot of times we don't realize how strong our ego is, but you know. You know, for a fact like ERIK: no way. Isaac: 20 years of soft, right? We've had to develop these egos that almost put a barrier and the ego really puts up a barrier around our heart to protect us. And we have 20 years, ERIK: They do. Isaac: we have 20 years of these barriers built up around our heart. And, you know, now these medicines go in there and just blast it away. ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: But it's, it's. It's hard to let go of that ego during the journey, but you know, once you do, that's like one of the most beautiful experiences. And then, ERIK: Yeah. Yeah. Isaac: and then just how late you feel afterwards, like, man, you know, I didn't realize what my ego. Yeah. Yeah. ERIK: Yep. The colors, the lightness, the yeah. Isaac: And then the meditation afterwards. helps keep that ego to at a weakened point. I tell guys I teach like I look at my ego like this ball, right? And when we meditate like you're never gonna get rid of your ego. It's always gonna be ERIK: No. Isaac: there. But you know when we meditate we're poking holes in that ball. So at the end we have this wiffle ball, right? So we've weakened ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: it. It's still there, but we've weakened it we have more control over how our ego affects us now. And the meditation has really helped just keep my ego in this wiffle ball state. It's like I like to put it because it will ERIK: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Isaac: come back like the ego does come back after journeys But it's it's ERIK: Yes, sir. Isaac: being aware of that and that's for me. The meditation has really helped with that. So ERIK: Yeah, I was explaining that this morning to a guy that hadn't done it yet that wants to. And I'm like, dude, it's just there's no no way to get over that hump without, you know, doing that. But meditating pre and good intentions and you know, fasted, Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: y it's the best you can do. Then you're on for the ride. Isaac: Yep. Yeah. ERIK: Yeah. No, there's so much to learn, but it's so much to pass down to. And I think that's our job to to spread the word, you know, we're we're Isaac: Yeah. Yep. ERIK: supposed to be leaders at all times, not just when you're wearing a uniform. So we'll Isaac: Exactly. ERIK: have people poo poo us, but I don't care, buddy. Doesn't matter anymore. Yeah. I didn't care twenty years ago, but I damn sure don't now. You know. As I always said, if an Isaac: Exactly. Yeah. ERIK: idiot calls you an idiot, you're not an idiot, you know, so it it all it Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: all works out in the in the formula. So Isaac: That's right. ERIK: well you got anything else to put out? I mean a good you know, part and shot. I mean covered some good stuff. And you got a lot in ya, so Isaac: Yeah, yeah, just, you know, for me it's... Man, that's a good one. It's really just, you know, making sure guys are doing what's good for them, you know? And it's really like, there's such a stigma about asking for help in the soft community, right? Like, don't be afraid to ask for help. Like, if anything, that's the strongest thing you can do is exactly ERIK: That's that's strength, that's not weakness. Isaac: is ask for help. And that's really the message I want to get across is if you know you need help, don't hesitate to ask for it. Like reach out to your buddy, reach out to someone and ask for help. Because it's ERIK: Yeah, don't think you're by yourself. Isaac: exactly, Asking for help saved my life. And you know, it... ERIK: Yeah, yeah, me too. Yeah, get grabbed by the scruff of the neck and going, Okay, let's go You know, so don't don't act Isaac: Yep, yep, push. ERIK: like you can't ask. Isaac: Exactly, push the ego to the side, which can be hard to do, ERIK: Yeah. Isaac: and ask for that help. And that's, think, ultimately that's the message. Yeah. ERIK: Yeah, no, I like that. That's a that's a good point to end too and and let's maybe do one some other time just straight on meditation on how you teach it and how you implement it and how you don't mean the whole whole guts of it, Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: 'cause you understand that as an instructor more than I do. I'd love to go Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: through that and then create a little like instructional video for that and we can pump that out too. Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: So So chew on that. I mean I know you do that for a day Isaac: Okay. ERIK: job, but figure out how the format and and how we can maybe some graphics or or or how, you know, tones help, frequencies help, you know, setting, lighting, everything. You know, I mean there's Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: so many things you can build into a meditation, you know, and people think Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: it's just sitting and saying, no, there's there's a million ways to meditate, you know. So kinda think of what helps the most and we'll go from there and then just get the word out. Sound good? Isaac: Okay. Yeah. Sounds like a plan. Yeah. ERIK: Excellent. Well thanks for this morning. And we'll do this more and more. I just not used Isaac: Yeah. ERIK: to the brunette, you know. I'm just like, hm. Okay. I was like, why'd he dye his hair? Why'd he dye his hair? Yeah, I'm like, okay, Isaac: Next time I'll dye my hair. I'll dye my hair blonde. ERIK: we're back. Well, it was a lot shorter back then too, so Isaac: Thank you very ERIK: I don't know, you you got the flowing locks everybody, so the wife must like that. So but let's call this one and then we'll we'll tune up for another one, okay? Yeah, good seeing you, buddy. Isaac: Sounds good, thanks Eric. You too.