Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Omnibus! The Dominators - celebrated by Frazer Gregory

Transcript

Omnibus! The Dominators - celebrated by Frazer Gregory · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:00
  Good morning, afternoon, evening.
• 0:05
  Depending on what time of day you're listening to this too.
• 0:09
  Welcome to Hamster Omnibus There you may or may not have noticed
• 0:14
  if you are a regular listening to this podcast that there are
• 0:18
  over 700 episodes now. I am currently in the process of
• 0:22
  having a website built, but until then, until that's
• 0:25
  available, there's a lot of episodes where you have to
• 0:27
  scroll a long way to try and find them down that feed.
• 0:32
  So what I thought I'd do is pull together individual episodes.
• 0:38
  So as the episodes are split into sort of individual
• 0:40
  instalments as just for one whole story, so you can
• 0:44
  experience some of the stuff from the archives.
• 0:46
  And I thought, why not start with the Dominators with the
• 0:51
  wonderful Fraser Gregory, because that probably
• 0:55
  exemplifies what this podcast does best and that is take hold
• 0:59
  of stories that are perhaps I'm fairly blind and gives them a
• 1:03
  positive spin. So I really hope you enjoyed
• 1:06
  this. We had such a blast recording
• 1:07
  this and it honestly, genuinely turned me around to the many,
• 1:12
  many strengths of the Dominators, a story that I
• 1:15
  completely had written off before this.
• 1:17
  So yeah, enjoy, enjoy. Listen to Fraser at his best,
• 1:22
  doing what he does best. Have a good day guys.
• 1:25
  Bye. Hamster with a blunt pen knife
• 2:01
  for doing quicker. Oh, welcome back to a hamster
• 2:09
  with a blunt pen knife. The Doctor Who Commentary
• 2:12
  Podcast, Mr. Fraser Gregory. Now listen, I've got something
• 2:17
  I've got to say to you before we even start anything.
• 2:21
  OK. I have taken your name in vain
• 2:25
  on so many podcasts lately on so many tweets and Facebook posts.
• 2:30
  I think people are starting to think I don't like you very
• 2:32
  much. So this is just my chance to say
• 2:37
  at the beginning of what would probably be the apotheosis of
• 2:41
  our commentary podcasts. I absolutely love you.
• 2:47
  Welcome back to Hamster With Blood Pen Knife.
• 2:49
  Oh well, I love you. Right back, my friend, and thank
• 2:52
  you again for having me back on. It's so nice to talk to you
• 2:54
  again. When?
• 2:55
  Did we start doing this thing together?
• 2:58
  It was. It was a year ago, wasn't it?
• 3:03
  The spring of last year. I think have changed quite a lot
• 3:07
  for you since I know you've become a presence.
• 3:15
  I wouldn't go that. Far don't even.
• 3:17
  OK, well listen to it. Every single person I've
• 3:19
  podcasted with knows your name, all right, and has a smile on
• 3:23
  their face. I was talking to somebody last
• 3:24
  night who said you were the best of Twitter, so don't even say to
• 3:30
  me you're not a presence. And a +1 at that.
• 3:33
  Well, that's what I try to do, You know, it's it's so easy just
• 3:37
  to go out there and be negative and you know, criticize and you
• 3:43
  know, try and get attention through being nasty about
• 3:47
  things. But I just find it much nicer to
• 3:51
  be to get likes for like and stuff.
• 3:54
  You know to go out and say, but this is what I like, so let's
• 3:59
  talk about that rather than, you know, this is what I don't like.
• 4:02
  You know, was it Toby Haydock that said you you get, you don't
• 4:04
  win through not liking something that's.
• 4:06
  A great point, isn't it? It's a fantastic point.
• 4:09
  You don't win by by hitting on Chibnall or or Jodie Whittaker
• 4:13
  or anything like that. So let's go out and in the words
• 4:17
  of the lovely Jeff God or talk The Who will love?
• 4:20
  And that's. I think I've taken from your
• 4:23
  example. You know, I started a thread and
• 4:25
  I'd put, you know, all the Doctor Who's stories into that
• 4:27
  thing where you ask lots of questions, which you prefer,
• 4:30
  this one or this one? This one or this one.
• 4:32
  And it gives you the list of your entire ranking of Doctor
• 4:35
  Who's in reverse order. And naturally, my last sort of
• 4:39
  100 is crammed for the Steven Moffat stories.
• 4:44
  You'd be surprised how many are in my top 50 as well, though,
• 4:46
  You know, Yeah. I thought it was upside down,
• 4:48
  that list. But what I decided to do was
• 4:52
  actually just every single story.
• 4:54
  Even, you know, my least favorite.
• 4:56
  I will name the things that I like about it, and it's been a
• 4:58
  bit of a stretch with someone who I won't lie, yeah, I found
• 5:02
  something in every single story. Even the Doctor, The Widow and
• 5:05
  the Wardrobe. Because that's amazing.
• 5:07
  That's crammed full of lovely things to enjoy.
• 5:11
  Delicious goodness. Oh, Fraser, can you hear that?
• 5:15
  Can you hear that noise? What's that noise?
• 5:17
  What was? It it's our special guest star
• 5:19
  for the episode. Oh.
• 5:22
  Hang on a minute. Will you keep it down back
• 5:24
  there? Oh, he's coming.
• 5:25
  Hang on, he's coming. Now I would like to introduce
• 5:28
  you to Quickie the Quark. Here he is.
• 5:33
  Hello Quickie. Hello.
• 5:36
  Keep your noise down, honestly. OK.
• 5:38
  OK. So I acquired him a little time
• 5:40
  ago, all right? He was, in fact, part of the
• 5:45
  story we're going to talk about today.
• 5:47
  But the Dostums decided they did not want him around anymore,
• 5:50
  this homicidal, you know, beatbox.
• 5:53
  Guess where I picked him up. When did you pick him up?
• 5:56
  Down the Portobello Rd. for a fiver.
• 5:59
  Down the Portobello. Man, well, she.
• 6:02
  Did die this week. I watched it this week.
• 6:04
  All right. You must love that movie,
• 6:06
  surely. Oh.
• 6:08
  Yes, I had Knobs and broomsticks in.
• 6:10
  It the special effects were surprisingly good, you know, I
• 6:12
  saw it for the first time this week.
• 6:14
  It's it's held up really well. I think when we got Disney Plus,
• 6:18
  I found it. So I put it on for for Luca and
• 6:20
  he must have been eight on nine at the time and he loved it.
• 6:23
  He he's watched it quite a few times as well.
• 6:27
  It's really stood up. Anyway, Quickie has been about
• 6:30
  my house now I've. I lost my cat a little while
• 6:33
  back, so I needed a replacement. So I went looking.
• 6:35
  He's been about the house. He does a bit of vacuuming, you
• 6:37
  know. It keeps me company where Mark's
• 6:40
  out. And can you hear him right now?
• 6:42
  Can you hear that bloody racket? I know.
• 6:44
  That's what's he doing now. That's very unpleasant, isn't
• 6:46
  it? He's blasting the wall.
• 6:48
  He calls it artwork. Honestly, they're they're
• 6:51
  displaying one of his pieces in the Tate Modern right now.
• 6:55
  I know, it's amazing. Oh, listen, he's been on a lot
• 6:58
  of adventures between being on the planet of the Dolceans.
• 7:02
  What's that planet called? Oh, Dalkis.
• 7:03
  That's right. Thank you very much.
• 7:06
  And I, he is going to inform us before and after the episode's
• 7:10
  end of what he's been up to in the interim.
• 7:13
  I'll tell you what, it's a lot. He he sounds like he's been
• 7:16
  around. I know he's a bit psychotic.
• 7:18
  I'm a bit scared of him behind me there anyway.
• 7:21
  But anyway, he's here. We're here.
• 7:24
  Are Are you ready? Born, ready, born ready for.
• 7:28
  This what story we're talking about?
• 7:29
  I mean, I introduced A quark, but we didn't even say.
• 7:34
  It's the Dominators, of course. Now look, the Dominators,
• 7:38
  Fraser. OK, my relationship with the
• 7:40
  Dominators has changed considerably.
• 7:43
  Good. Since the old times of Doko Ho
• 7:45
  reviews where I think I gave it a measly.
• 7:49
  One out of 10 was it A1? One out of. 10.
• 7:53
  And then UK 191, be braced with me and Jack with that fabulous
• 7:59
  duvet around your neck. Oh, yes.
• 8:01
  Dressed up like a dominator. Just saying a bit quirky.
• 8:04
  We're talking about this story, don't we Will?
• 8:07
  You be quiet. Honestly, go make some drinks
• 8:15
  for us. Go on.
• 8:19
  Yes, please, quickly. What's that?
• 8:22
  Oh, did you hear that? What he just said.
• 8:25
  Is this specimen broken? It's Fraser.
• 8:28
  Gregory. He probably is, you know,
• 8:30
  honestly. Yeah, beyond repair quickly.
• 8:33
  Now. But so, So my relationship with
• 8:35
  the dominatus has changed because of you because, well,
• 8:38
  because frankly, you're a force of nature with this story, all
• 8:42
  right. And your extreme love of quarks,
• 8:46
  quarks, quarks. Quarks.
• 8:48
  Quarks. You know what?
• 8:50
  I'll let yourself of this one. OK.
• 8:52
  Thank you. Pronounce it whichever way you
• 8:53
  want to quark or quark. I'm going with Quark because
• 8:55
  that's. You talk about social media.
• 8:58
  I think people think you don't like my over half as well.
• 9:00
  The amount you correct his pronunciation of everything.
• 9:06
  That's just funny though, honestly.
• 9:07
  Did you hear the way you said Lee Sen Chang?
• 9:10
  Oh, it was embarrassing. Anyways, the dominators.
• 9:14
  The dominators. Tell me, where did this love
• 9:18
  affair begin? So back in the 90s, early 90s,
• 9:23
  when I was getting into Doctor Who, having, you know, the end
• 9:28
  of the Macquarie, you were going into the wilderness years still
• 9:33
  wanting to be a fan of Doctor Who, you know, craving more to
• 9:37
  watch. You've got two choices.
• 9:39
  You've got BBC repeats or you've got VHS at that point you've got
• 9:43
  target books. But I didn't really get into
• 9:45
  those. I got into VHS.
• 9:47
  So I remember the first part of tracking story I'd seen was the
• 9:52
  mind Robber, which was repeated on the BBC, but the first?
• 9:56
  I hope you adore. Oh, absolutely, yes, absolutely.
• 10:00
  It was just, you know, it's a fantastic story that one.
• 10:04
  Just the power of imagination and the power of what you can do
• 10:09
  with that format of this show. When things go wrong, when all
• 10:16
  of a sudden you've got an episode that you need to fill
• 10:20
  and you've got no budget for no sets, all you can do is have a
• 10:24
  tin of white paint and get some old robots out the cupboard.
• 10:27
  Paint them white and you've got to build an episode around that.
• 10:32
  Why was that, Fraser? Well, it's because the episode
• 10:36
  before it was deemed to be over not have not enough material for
• 10:41
  the six parts it was allocated I.
• 10:43
  Mean. I wouldn't disagree with that.
• 10:45
  Do. You think you could knock this
• 10:47
  into 6? Someone could.
• 10:50
  The man that was coming through the ranks at the time, I've got
• 10:52
  no doubt would have been able to do this at six because his
• 10:56
  influence is what makes it fill the five.
• 11:00
  I feel that man is 10 sticks well I.
• 11:04
  Mean He did it with Caesar death, didn't he?
• 11:06
  He knocked that into shape. He did better job with with the
• 11:09
  war games. If you look at the war games,
• 11:11
  you know he's got him and Michael or are taking a six pot
• 11:16
  story essentially and dragging it out of 10.
• 11:18
  But it's so well plotted. It's so just a master class in
• 11:23
  giving you a little bit now and a little bit later and a little
• 11:25
  bit down the line. So I think if 10 Sticks had been
• 11:29
  in his pump at the time of making the story, he could have,
• 11:33
  he could have made this into six without breaking a sweat.
• 11:36
  I really do. But yes, he's just coming
• 11:38
  through with the ranks and there's some little scenes which
• 11:42
  will come to later episodes which are sort of like 10
• 11:45
  Sticks, his very first contributions to Doctor Who.
• 11:48
  And it is just that genius of the man that we've talked about
• 11:51
  I think in Ambassadors have been able to pad, pad a story but do
• 11:55
  it so entertainingly well that you don't think it's pardon, you
• 11:59
  just think it's brilliant. So yeah.
• 12:02
  So going back the the point the the first VHSI bought for
• 12:07
  Patrick Trouton was the Dominators.
• 12:09
  So I watched that you know a couple of times in the in the in
• 12:15
  the 90s. I've got the main drawback.
• 12:18
  Obviously I bought that as well because I loved it.
• 12:20
  I've got the dominators, I've got the croutons as well.
• 12:22
  So those were my sort of staple trouting stories going up until
• 12:26
  they started getting repeated on UK gold.
• 12:29
  There wasn't that many because we didn't have that many in the
• 12:31
  the archives at the time, but I remember, you know, always
• 12:35
  enjoying it, loving it. Really good entertainer store.
• 12:39
  We came onto Twitter, you know, 20-30 years later.
• 12:45
  You fool. Yeah, And then it's like, oh,
• 12:47
  what do people think about the Dominators?
• 12:49
  No one likes it. Why is that?
• 12:51
  Especially Doc. Oh.
• 12:52
  Yeah. It's a bit like, have I missed
• 12:54
  the point? Yeah, have I missed some?
• 12:56
  Let's go back and re watch it on on the brick box and Nope it
• 12:59
  still stands up today. Still stands up as a as a
• 13:03
  fantastic episode fantastic story.
• 13:05
  So. I feel as if you read my review,
• 13:07
  you know, and then you specifically targeted me in
• 13:10
  vague your way into this podcast just about that score.
• 13:13
  Changed. I'll do it at the end of this,
• 13:16
  you know, because you know what? I think I'll probably give it A7
• 13:18
  or an 8 now. Absolutely.
• 13:20
  Do you know why? As well as I was watching it
• 13:22
  earlier, I watched episode one or two this morning and we will
• 13:24
  talk about this man a bit more. But I think this has got one of
• 13:27
  the great comedy terms in it now.
• 13:28
  And I ain't talking about Patrick Trout and Fraser Heinz.
• 13:31
  Oh no. I'm talking about that fabulous
• 13:33
  scientist man in episode one who takes everything in his strides.
• 13:37
  I think. A lot of this is funnier than I
• 13:39
  thought it was. I think.
• 13:40
  I don't think Maurice Barry got the note.
• 13:43
  That might be the problem. I think he thinks he's directing
• 13:45
  a drama. Yeah, I think there's obviously
• 13:48
  this, this troubled production, you know, there's it's troubles
• 13:52
  behind the scenes with the writers and the script editor
• 13:56
  who was when at the time. Yeah, yeah.
• 13:59
  Yeah, you know. There's, there's obviously.
• 14:00
  Peter Bright was propping up the bar.
• 14:02
  Yeah, yeah, so. I mean it It ended with a lot of
• 14:08
  contention, didn't it? Yeah, I mean, it ended.
• 14:10
  Mervin Heisman and Henry Lincoln.
• 14:13
  It ended the relationship between those two and the BBC,
• 14:16
  essentially, and it ended the BB CS relationship with the clocks.
• 14:19
  And the potential marketing of fabulous creators like Quickie
• 14:23
  here, Quickie here. Hang on.
• 14:24
  He's bought us some drinks. Thank you very much, Quickie.
• 14:26
  That's very kind of you. Hang on, hang on over there.
• 14:29
  What's happening? Oh, he's asking.
• 14:31
  He says there's an order required.
• 14:32
  Well, do me a favour. Yeah.
• 14:34
  Train your gun on Fraser Gregory.
• 14:35
  And if he says anything that does not marry with what I
• 14:38
  think, shoot him. Lovely.
• 14:41
  OK, that's noted. Oh, he's going to run out of
• 14:43
  power, isn't he? Very.
• 14:45
  Possibly, yeah. Or we will flogging this gag to
• 14:48
  death. OK, I think we should probably
• 14:53
  go in. I thought we should.
• 14:54
  What is the man's name that that sign?
• 14:56
  Is it Balon? Balon find out.
• 15:01
  And and and his glamorous assistant.
• 15:04
  I feel as if there's a spin off in the making.
• 15:06
  You know, the Doctor goes to him well, you know, we're from
• 15:09
  another planet from outer space. And he goes, oh, really?
• 15:12
  Well, I should write that down in my journal like.
• 15:14
  It's. Something that happens every
• 15:16
  day. I was pissing myself at 4:00 in
• 15:18
  the morning, I'll tell you. Awesome.
• 15:21
  Did you hear how he said the word robot?
• 15:24
  No. He he said he talks like Doctor
• 15:26
  Zoidberg. In Futurama, he goes, Are you
• 15:30
  telling me there's some kind of robots?
• 15:31
  It's a very 1950s way of saying robot.
• 15:36
  OK, well, we've entered. Yep, I feel like we should
• 15:40
  watch. Let's watch.
• 15:42
  Quickie, go and lie down. All right?
• 15:43
  Don't conserve your power. All right?
• 15:46
  Here. We can't see him.
• 15:48
  OK, in 54321 play. He's absolutely desperate, you
• 15:55
  know, to tell you about his adventures, but he's going to
• 15:57
  have to wait till the end he's going to have.
• 15:59
  To wait, he just needs to conserve his power for now.
• 16:02
  I'll tell you what, iPhone chargers don't work.
• 16:04
  I've tried putting it in every socket, but honestly.
• 16:07
  Stop it. I want to be rude for once.
• 16:13
  Okey dokey Frizz, I've got a question for you straight away.
• 16:18
  Go on, because I've got a feeling you prefer this to see
• 16:21
  to death. Absolutely, yeah.
• 16:23
  Yeah. Are you mad?
• 16:26
  I mean, what's not to love? You know, straight in aliens,
• 16:30
  flying sources. And I'll tell you what one thing
• 16:36
  that did strike me was. This was better executed than I
• 16:41
  remember it being. I do think there is a very 1950s
• 16:45
  feel. Oh, absolutely.
• 16:47
  But is it the deliberate? Yeah, that.
• 16:49
  I mean, that's the beauty of it. It's it's it's the last hurrah,
• 16:54
  really, of that type of story. We'll have this one.
• 16:59
  We have the Crotons and we have Space Pirates in Season 6.
• 17:05
  After that it's all. What's that?
• 17:07
  What kind of looking back to science fiction of the?
• 17:10
  Past, yeah, that's sort of that feel of, you know, like flying
• 17:14
  saucers and little green men and cities made of steel and metal
• 17:20
  and and whatnot. After after the season, we'll go
• 17:24
  into Season 7, which we both adore, but it is very grounded
• 17:29
  and down to earth. But it's suddenly like in the
• 17:32
  now, isn't it? It's as contemporary as it could
• 17:35
  possibly be. But even when Purpley goes into
• 17:37
  space, we don't have the same sort of futuristic feel as this
• 17:42
  story does. We don't have you know you go to
• 17:44
  colony in space and it's in a clear pit.
• 17:48
  You know Curse of Peloton is Transylvania in space and
• 17:52
  Frontier in space is just look at my prism.
• 17:56
  Transylvania in space. That is a fantastic way of
• 17:59
  describing Curse of Peloton. Oh man, This is why you're here.
• 18:03
  You know, I think you know. Be a genius.
• 18:06
  And then you go into Hinchcliffe, which again is all
• 18:08
  Gothic. You know, stylings.
• 18:11
  You don't really get anything shiny in space again until
• 18:13
  Graham Williams comes along, but by that point it is Star Wars
• 18:17
  and. I there's I.
• 18:20
  Shane, is it? I think there's.
• 18:21
  Possibly in the 80s. A couple of moments where they
• 18:24
  look back. But I think Time Lash is a
• 18:27
  throwback to old science fiction.
• 18:32
  Yeah, but yeah, you're right. So this is the last stab of
• 18:36
  either what, like Bee Movie Science fiction?
• 18:39
  I was talking to Rossifton the other night about this and he
• 18:41
  described it as Flash Gordon. It's really, isn't it?
• 18:45
  It's like. Flash Gordon?
• 18:47
  Sort of. Buck Rogers do.
• 18:49
  You know what it is? It's the it's the Saturday
• 18:51
  morning 50s in the cinema. You know, they did those little
• 18:55
  shorts. Yeah, yeah.
• 18:56
  I'm like, how will Balon and Kando get out of this one?
• 19:01
  TuneIn next week, Another thrilling adventure of the
• 19:04
  Dominators. Will they take on the deadly
• 19:07
  quarks? Even down to the costumes as
• 19:11
  well, which everyone ridicules. But it is what it is.
• 19:16
  It's it's a costume. It's it's futuristic.
• 19:19
  It's Spacey. I mean, they do look like
• 19:22
  they're wearing curtains all the time.
• 19:24
  And dresses. Yeah, but hang on.
• 19:26
  No, wait, hang on. Who's to say in the future we're
• 19:28
  not going to wear those? Exactly.
• 19:30
  You know. Exactly.
• 19:32
  It's it's an alien plan. It's an alien culture.
• 19:35
  That's what you need to convey on the screen and that's what
• 19:38
  they're doing so. I can't believe I'm going to be
• 19:41
  giving this so much positivity, but I actually thought the
• 19:45
  banter between this bunch on Kelly's amazing adventure was
• 19:50
  actually quite fun. It is I, I, I.
• 19:52
  I don't believe them as students because they all look about 30
• 19:55
  and Kelly looks about 50, even though I think the actor is
• 19:58
  about 30 because he's 50 in the 11th, 11th hour.
• 20:01
  He is. He is he's.
• 20:04
  But this is, yeah, it it speaks to the Society of the Dawson's
• 20:09
  that, you know, these are the cool kids, the.
• 20:13
  Real seekers. Well, it's it's eating boys out,
• 20:16
  days out, isn't it? Yeah, you know.
• 20:19
  It's calling so middle class, but it's it's still a bit shit,
• 20:23
  you know? Absolutely.
• 20:24
  But the whole society is like that.
• 20:25
  So you get a picture of this whole society as just being, you
• 20:28
  know, made of of Boris Johnson type characters, don't you?
• 20:33
  That's terrifying planet. It's Harris.
• 20:35
  Johnsons. Exactly.
• 20:36
  So it's planet of the Boris Johnsons.
• 20:38
  It's planet of the Eaton's Eaton Kids.
• 20:41
  Cully's crashed these. Quickly Freezer Love that.
• 20:47
  And they do the POV shot. I've been going towards the
• 20:50
  planet like Morris Barry again, I will say there were moments I
• 20:57
  thought was surprisingly dynamic, the bit where the
• 21:00
  quarks, unseen at this point, start blowing up the spaceship
• 21:04
  and there's like tracking shots across the quarry and things
• 21:06
  like that that are quite impressive.
• 21:08
  But some of his shooting is very theatrical.
• 21:12
  Yeah. But this is classic who.
• 21:14
  A lot of it's very theatrical. It is and it's it's, you know,
• 21:18
  you're still in the studio, in a very small studio, so you
• 21:21
  haven't got, you know, it's not really until like the next
• 21:24
  season when we get those big expansive sets where you can
• 21:28
  move around and and work your angles and whatnot.
• 21:30
  I think obviously some directors do do it better.
• 21:33
  You know, you look at, you know what will credit Seeds of Death
• 21:35
  Is Michael Ferguson coming in and working a close up work in a
• 21:41
  work in a background? Always shooting through things
• 21:43
  he's does lots of zooms, he's silhouettes things.
• 21:46
  I mean, Ambassador definitely talked about that he.
• 21:48
  Does and he has, he has things on different levels.
• 21:50
  So you know, these sets have got steps so people can come down
• 21:54
  and go up and and that's. Marvellous about this, you know,
• 21:56
  it's the subversion is cully things, right?
• 21:58
  He's going to, he's going to calm these people out a bit of
• 22:00
  money. Take him off to the, you know,
• 22:02
  the island of death and and try and, you know, be a bit like
• 22:05
  those ghost walks that you go on, you know, turn out to be a
• 22:08
  bit of nothing about nothing. And then obviously the
• 22:11
  Dominators have turned up with the quarks and so it turns into
• 22:14
  a death defying ride anyway, He's great when he's on top of
• 22:19
  the game going, yeah, everybody get down and they're running
• 22:23
  along like really excited. I'll tell you what, that special
• 22:26
  effect when their faces melt away, I know it's Grizzly, isn't
• 22:30
  it? What is going on there?
• 22:32
  It's the Special Weapons, Quark. I have to ask Quickie about it
• 22:35
  later. You know, honestly, I've never,
• 22:38
  I mean you know, I have had him blast down a few people since
• 22:41
  he's been here. But you know, that's just the
• 22:44
  NMDS on Twitter. I'll send him out.
• 22:46
  He's got an algorithm so he can find them and he goes off to
• 22:49
  their houses and melts their faces.
• 22:52
  Wonderful. Oh, I you know what?
• 22:56
  I I got the, I've got the closed captions on at the moment what
• 23:00
  they call subtitles. Thank you.
• 23:03
  And he goes Wahid. One of them is called Wahid.
• 23:07
  Well, I was absolutely convinced today that this it was the
• 23:11
  dominate going warhead fire. Sometimes having the subtitles
• 23:16
  on helps. It's these three characters.
• 23:20
  Oh, there you go. There's that.
• 23:21
  I mean that's something out of like threads or?
• 23:25
  It's, yeah, it's in a place where they're talking about
• 23:29
  radiation a lot. Yeah, it's something one of
• 23:32
  those radio, radio or can be words out like nuclear missile
• 23:36
  strike. Programs.
• 23:38
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. To show like the horror of what
• 23:41
  happens if we drop the bomb. Yeah.
• 23:44
  Oh my God, have we got this far into it?
• 23:46
  We haven't even talked about the two dominators because.
• 23:48
  What I was going to say is that those 3 characters at Warhead
• 23:51
  and there's another one, another one those are named for.
• 23:56
  I think it's Arabic 123 translates roughly as 1-2 and
• 24:02
  three in. OK, are you trying to tell me
• 24:05
  there's a bit more fault behind this than I previously thought?
• 24:08
  Absolutely. Well, I don't.
• 24:10
  I want to talk a bit about the morality of this as well and the
• 24:13
  message, because I think there's more going on here than the B
• 24:17
  movie antics suggest. I'm just not sure I like the
• 24:21
  message that it's saying. Yeah.
• 24:24
  So the message I believe that Hisman and Lincoln were
• 24:30
  intending was sort of attack on the hippie culture.
• 24:33
  Yeah, seeing ya where you hippies, you know is all well
• 24:37
  and good with your flower power and your your piece of love.
• 24:40
  But you know when the big boys come in, you know where you're
• 24:43
  going to be. You know you're going to be
• 24:45
  stumpled, stomped on and trampled on and and this that
• 24:49
  new them and does it land? I don't think it.
• 24:52
  Does not really. Especially not as a trout in the
• 24:54
  story, where being subversive, yeah, and anarchic is the way to
• 24:59
  go. I mean, it's, it's, it does make
• 25:03
  the Dolphins really interesting, though, I find.
• 25:05
  I know people are probably sitting at home going.
• 25:08
  What? But it makes their society
• 25:10
  really, really interesting for me that, you know, they are the
• 25:15
  posh boys, the eaten crew, you know, the planet of the Boris
• 25:18
  Johnsons, which is a really good knowledge actually, because
• 25:22
  they're useless essentially when this happens.
• 25:26
  The sequences in their city, when they're all sitting around,
• 25:28
  I want to talk about that because, you know, I've had a
• 25:30
  job where I've been in meetings like that, where they just go
• 25:32
  around in circles and nothing ever gets done.
• 25:34
  You're having meetings about meetings, you know.
• 25:36
  Exactly. Exactly.
• 25:37
  But you know, it's not completely unrelatable or
• 25:41
  unbelievable. It's not like one of these high
• 25:45
  concepts societies where you think that would never evolve
• 25:50
  naturally. I see what you're saying.
• 25:52
  So you think you you could get to a point where as a society,
• 25:56
  you embrace pacifism and indolence becomes the order of
• 25:59
  the day. Yeah, it's, it's, it's hubris.
• 26:02
  It's. It sounds marvellous, honestly,
• 26:04
  sitting around on those lounges just chatting about stuff and
• 26:06
  not having to go to work. It would be and that would be,
• 26:09
  but that's what, you know, Lincoln, here's what I'm saying
• 26:12
  is that's that's all very nice. But you know, in the real world,
• 26:16
  there's nasty people and they're going to come along and, you
• 26:19
  know, take things from you and bully you and you're not going
• 26:22
  to be able to stand up for them if that's the way you go.
• 26:24
  But like I said, I just don't think it lands very well.
• 26:27
  It's making the suggestion that they're just a nuisance, rather
• 26:30
  than like like an effective force for change.
• 26:35
  Yeah. Which they were.
• 26:37
  Culture did change. In the 60s.
• 26:40
  Due to the in inverted commas hippies.
• 26:42
  Exactly. I mean we're we're now in a
• 26:45
  society which is a lot more forward to thinking, a lot more
• 26:48
  considerate other people because of, you know, that progress that
• 26:52
  was made, made back in the 60s and the 70s.
• 26:56
  So I mean to pull you away from this intelligent discussion to
• 26:59
  talk about something facetious, but I absolutely love this ray
• 27:02
  gun. In a minute.
• 27:03
  It's the same trick they pull off in the tomb of the side men
• 27:05
  where the gun goes off, and then after walls on fire.
• 27:09
  Yeah. It.
• 27:12
  Reminds us of Demolition Man. Oh, wow.
• 27:18
  You know, when Wesley Snipes and Sylvester still not in Frozen
• 27:23
  and they go to the museum, he's like, let's get some guns.
• 27:26
  Well, where's the only place that there is guns now?
• 27:27
  It's in the. Museum, yeah.
• 27:29
  So show me the ray guns. And he's like.
• 27:33
  You know should. I get to use the guns later on
• 27:35
  the corks. I can't remember the do I do.
• 27:37
  I quickly didn't hear that that good.
• 27:39
  So he lost a lot of good friends that blow their heads off in
• 27:42
  this story. You know it's still traumatized.
• 27:45
  This bit in the museum the the dress people up as dummies.
• 27:52
  Are they supposed to be people or are they supposed to be
• 27:54
  dummies? I can never figure this out.
• 27:56
  The the must be supposed to be dummies.
• 27:57
  I don't think the words actually go as far as to say right in
• 28:02
  this society there is the museum and it is cadavers.
• 28:05
  We have left cadavers in this house to show you the.
• 28:09
  If I was an actor, OK, and I and then I, you know, they'd rather
• 28:14
  pay me to just sit here and pay for a dummy.
• 28:21
  I think that's really effective when the camera swings around
• 28:24
  and they're all there in the anti radiation suits.
• 28:26
  Yeah, absolutely. And then there's your man
• 28:29
  Bealing. Oh, he's so wonderful.
• 28:32
  He's so amiable. That's what I like about it.
• 28:35
  And you know, like what he's he's, I'm going to talk about
• 28:39
  exposition for a second or right, So don't get excited.
• 28:42
  Iggy's like Cando, you know, tell the Doctor and Jamie and
• 28:46
  Zoe all about the, you know, the history of the Island of death
• 28:50
  and why we don't come here anymore.
• 28:51
  And it's done really well because she's struggling to get
• 28:54
  it all out and he's kind of chipping in and helping her in a
• 28:57
  really sweet way. And it's just a nice way of
• 28:59
  adding a bit of character. What could what could just be
• 29:01
  like in time Lash? It would just be an exposition
• 29:04
  dump, you know. It would be.
• 29:06
  It would be but. Did you rewatch Trout and said
• 29:10
  then what? Oh my beautiful coat.
• 29:12
  It's all wet. Oh yeah, so much colour to this.
• 29:18
  I saw wear. He does.
• 29:22
  He's so. He's just so watchable, isn't
• 29:25
  he's? I think you know, for that, you
• 29:31
  know William Harton as well, that the fact that it's the
• 29:34
  majority of the Patrick Trouton stories that are missing from
• 29:38
  the archive is is such a shame because he's always doing
• 29:41
  something interesting to look at.
• 29:42
  He's such a visual actor. And I've said that a million
• 29:46
  times. You, you know, I am very
• 29:48
  grateful for the animations. Oh yeah.
• 29:50
  You just don't get the nuance. It is facial performance.
• 29:53
  Yeah, it's facial. Always doing something, isn't
• 29:56
  it? It's, it's.
• 29:57
  It's just liquid at times. And you know when he does those
• 30:00
  shocked faces or when he's got that grin on his face, you know,
• 30:05
  you'd like to say you just don't get that with with the
• 30:08
  animation. Unfortunately, you never go now.
• 30:09
  You never. Go Quicksilver acting, isn't it?
• 30:12
  Yeah, absolutely. Like, I love it.
• 30:13
  Yeah. Where he's, I'm skipping forward
• 30:15
  right at the end of the story now.
• 30:16
  And he's there and he's fanning himself and looking very happy
• 30:19
  with himself. And Jamie goes, yeah, look at
• 30:21
  the volcano. And he's like, Oh my word.
• 30:24
  He's got his face. His face changes.
• 30:26
  Yeah. And you know what's?
• 30:30
  Cute is that He comes out the task going.
• 30:32
  That's a perfectly splendid planet.
• 30:34
  You know, like normally that guy go, oh, I've you know, we should
• 30:38
  be cautious this time. He's very relaxed.
• 30:41
  Yeah. Well, this is it.
• 30:43
  It's, it's, he says. You know, I've been here before.
• 30:45
  I've I've done all that sort of mental projecting because
• 30:50
  between the Wheel and Space and this story, the repeated the
• 30:54
  evil of the Daleks. That's right what they reference
• 30:57
  it in the story. Yeah, yeah.
• 30:59
  So at the end of the Wheeling space, the Doctor was like, oh,
• 31:00
  I'll show you because he's always hit on the target.
• 31:02
  He's like, well, I'll show you what, how dangerous it is.
• 31:04
  He puts the helmet on and, you know, that leads into a repeat
• 31:07
  of the evil of the Daleks. So when they come out of this,
• 31:10
  he's like, oh, well, I'm really tired after doing all that
• 31:12
  mental projecting. I am.
• 31:14
  I need a holiday. So we've come to Dulcas because
• 31:16
  it's a lovely place I've been to before, blah blah, blah.
• 31:19
  So he's not expecting any sort of danger.
• 31:20
  And he's like, yeah, well, we'll take the I know there's lovely
• 31:23
  beaches and, you know, take the chair and the beach ball and
• 31:26
  whatnot. And it's really interesting
• 31:28
  because that's for me, is a really strong implication that
• 31:31
  the Doctors actually steered the TARDIS.
• 31:34
  What for the first time? Yeah, but the doctors actually
• 31:37
  thought, I want to go on holiday, so I'm going to go to
• 31:39
  the doctors because I know it's a lovely relaxing place.
• 31:42
  And he's actually, do you have the Tardis, I think?
• 31:45
  That fault machine might be part of the TARDIS.
• 31:47
  So whilst he, whilst he, his brain was in there doing all
• 31:50
  that, the TARDIS was like, oh he wants to go somewhere restful,
• 31:54
  let's go to Dalkis. Oh do you know what?
• 31:56
  It's a miserable looking quarry. Well, it's.
• 31:59
  You know it's. It's beach, isn't it?
• 32:01
  It's sand cliffs. We don't see none of that
• 32:04
  though, do we? Although I do think Barry
• 32:08
  Newby's set, when we go to the city, it's suggesting like it is
• 32:12
  a painted cloth. And I'm not going to criticize
• 32:14
  that because we've had a lot of that in the 60s and a lot of
• 32:17
  it's very effective for what it's doing.
• 32:19
  But it's suggesting a very sort of majestic.
• 32:23
  It's a bit like the city of the Mechanoids, you know, layers and
• 32:27
  and. Monorails and yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:31
  Very 1950s. Very 1950s, yes.
• 32:34
  Yeah, but that's back when the future was, you know, they
• 32:37
  thought the future was going to be gleaming palaces and hover
• 32:39
  cars and fabulousness, you know? Yeah, yeah.
• 32:43
  Skipped forward two years and we're in colony in space.
• 32:45
  We're just down in the mud. You know what happened?
• 32:48
  I. Think we went into space, we
• 32:50
  landed on the moon and we realised actually this isn't
• 32:52
  going to be the case. You're trying to suggest that
• 32:56
  our imagination is better than reality.
• 32:58
  Unfortunately so, yes. Well, I'll tell you what.
• 33:01
  I want to stay in the hotel at Canary Wharf recently, and I was
• 33:05
  literally amongst all the skyscrapers there.
• 33:07
  But when I looked out, I felt as if I was in the planet of the
• 33:10
  Dominators. It was like Space City every
• 33:12
  time I looked out the window. So I feel like on Earth we are.
• 33:16
  We are building it on. Creating these fantastic
• 33:19
  futuristic cityscapes. I don't know if we're going to
• 33:22
  see them in outer space, though. No, I do not.
• 33:26
  But this is This is why we have Doctor Who and the Dominators,
• 33:29
  because we can then imagine oh. And also as well, if this is a
• 33:35
  love letter to the 1950, oh, I think that's something that's
• 33:39
  worth doing as well. Yeah, we'll, we'll do that now.
• 33:43
  We do nostalgia fests to Doctor Doctor Who in the 60s in the new
• 33:47
  series, you know. Absolutely.
• 33:51
  You know, it's the sort of thing you can imagine Mark Gaters
• 33:53
  doing. Well, for sure, yeah.
• 33:56
  Well, every episode he writes is a is a stage offense to doctors.
• 34:00
  Yeah it's it's it's picking any error picking a a concept you
• 34:04
  know giving you a lovely warm feeling about that you know be
• 34:09
  it Victorian London, be it Robin Hood you know all that sort of
• 34:16
  stuff. So this will be right in his
• 34:17
  wheelhouse. If he said or more like go on
• 34:19
  then Mark right as a right as a book watches type store we go on
• 34:22
  go and do that will give us some a little bit 50s with shiny
• 34:26
  cities and and little and chunky robots.
• 34:29
  You know, I hit that would be right in his right in his
• 34:33
  wheelhouse, I think. So if the message of this is a
• 34:37
  sort of anti hippie movement, I think where it gets a bit
• 34:43
  blurred is then you should be showing the Dolceans surely as
• 34:48
  like the superior force, but actually they're just proved to
• 34:51
  be sort of bureaucrats that sit around nattering and are easily
• 34:56
  taken over. It's not the hippie.
• 34:58
  Well, no, they are the hippies, aren't they they?
• 35:00
  Are the hippies. So I think that's, that's the
• 35:01
  message is, you know, if you go down this route, if you want to
• 35:04
  be or peace of love and whatnot, you will end up with this
• 35:07
  society full of eating boys, full of hubris, where you know
• 35:11
  you are ultimately not going to be able to, no matter how
• 35:16
  enlightened you think. Because, you know, coming back
• 35:18
  to Balan, that's how. My favorite.
• 35:22
  Yeah, but you know that scene where he's like, oh, I'll write
• 35:25
  that down to me notebook because they do the same?
• 35:28
  You're kind of like, you're accepting this very, very easily
• 35:31
  on him, he says. Well, what else could you be?
• 35:34
  There's no. Do you know what threat is?
• 35:37
  I'm going to try it in real life every time something shocking
• 35:39
  happens or someone tells me it's a gothic one.
• 35:41
  Oh really? Oh well, she'll write that.
• 35:43
  Down. Thank you very.
• 35:43
  Much what's even better is, is when Curly comes in now and he
• 35:49
  thinks he's he's been full, doesn't he?
• 35:51
  That he's they're just mates of colleagues that have come in
• 35:54
  with their back. He goes, oh, oh, I see from
• 35:57
  outer space. Oh yeah.
• 35:59
  He's very believing at that point, you know, because
• 36:01
  because, like logically, OK, I can't explain know how else he
• 36:05
  would be. He had to be in these strange
• 36:07
  clothes and all the rest of it and not know, not know about
• 36:10
  this island that everyone in the whole planet knows about because
• 36:13
  we teach it from a very early age.
• 36:16
  So logic tells me you must be telling the truth until
• 36:19
  obviously Cully comes in. He's like, oh, you've had this,
• 36:21
  haven't you? And then, bless his heart, he's
• 36:29
  lugging about rocks for the rest of the story.
• 36:31
  And he does he die by the end. He.
• 36:32
  Does he gets? Up, I'd forgotten.
• 36:35
  Yeah, I think episode four, he gets a smoke pack and his back
• 36:38
  goes off and. Dear, Oh dear, She laughed over
• 36:41
  quickly about that. If he was the one that finished
• 36:43
  him off, honestly. But then explain it to do.
• 36:47
  The Dominators though, right? And now, don't get wrong, I do
• 36:50
  think they're well performed. But.
• 36:53
  They get a lot of sort of repetitive speeches and I don't
• 36:58
  think they like is the idea then that this is the superior force
• 37:01
  because they just matter as well.
• 37:04
  I mean the they do, but you know they've come in to do a job.
• 37:08
  You know, they've detached from the main fleet.
• 37:10
  They've come to do a job, which is to essentially turn this
• 37:15
  planet into an SO garage. I've got a few brands available,
• 37:20
  but that's the, you know, their job.
• 37:22
  They've come, you know they've got, they've got the quarks, the
• 37:24
  two of them, right. It's going, you know, do you
• 37:27
  know, blow this planet up, turn it into a radioactive dump and
• 37:31
  ground that we can just use to refuel the fleet as we're as we
• 37:35
  pass through the sector and dominate other planets?
• 37:38
  So. There's a lot of.
• 37:40
  You know, world building that's got on there.
• 37:42
  There's a lot of you know, suggestion behind that.
• 37:45
  You know, the Dominators are this totally ruthless race.
• 37:49
  They will do exactly what the says on the tin.
• 37:52
  They're going to come to a planet and dominate it, take
• 37:55
  what they want from it and then you know move on or or stay and
• 37:59
  users as slaves or or whatever. So there is that massive sort of
• 38:06
  like concept behind them, which again is is suggested really
• 38:11
  well because it's never sort of like info you don't say, you
• 38:14
  just have to kind of he gets. Exposition, it's all, it's all
• 38:19
  detail that's added and you know classic who did a lot of that,
• 38:22
  you had to sort of suggest the epic on an intimate scale.
• 38:27
  Patrick Troughton's looking a bit rough in that trought.
• 38:29
  He looks very thin, doesn't he? Obviously anyone who almost
• 38:31
  think it wasn't Patrick Troughton would, but look at
• 38:35
  that shot there, the spaceship behind them.
• 38:37
  That was great. I thought that's a good
• 38:39
  perspective shot, you know? Yeah.
• 38:40
  Yeah, absolutely. It looks like, and I really like
• 38:43
  this set, you know? I know we've got very flat
• 38:46
  mountains in the background there, but this to me feels like
• 38:50
  a flying salsa from a 1950s B movie with landing struts.
• 38:55
  It's a big circular thing. It's a saucer, you know and it's
• 38:58
  got that sort of central column with the with the way they go
• 39:01
  into the spaceship and. I mean, we're going to have a
• 39:05
  I'm going to have an awful lot to say about Patrick Trout and
• 39:07
  Fraser. Highs in episode 20.
• 39:09
  God, yes. Where the comedy starts hitting.
• 39:13
  There's, there's the first shot of.
• 39:16
  Oh my God. Of the quarks.
• 39:19
  OK, I feel like we should save all our discussion for the
• 39:22
  design of the Quarks and and their effectiveness for Episode
• 39:27
  2. But this is accepted practice,
• 39:31
  isn't it? Suggest the Menace throughout
• 39:33
  Episode One and then hit with a visual of the monster at the
• 39:38
  end. Is it an effective visual at the
• 39:42
  end? It is.
• 39:43
  It is. It's really good because if you
• 39:44
  look again, we're talking about, you know, this is a bit more
• 39:47
  dynamically directed than we thought in the past.
• 39:50
  If you look at that shot, it is you know, the quarks appear on
• 39:53
  the mountain and some at the hill toolbar.
• 40:03
  Oh, what's happened? Then appears in the middle of
• 40:07
  them. Then the camera zooms in on the
• 40:11
  hello. Hello, I totally lost you there
• 40:13
  for a second. Oh.
• 40:15
  It's saying my my Internet is unstable, not happening for a
• 40:19
  long time. Anyhow, what I've seen was the
• 40:23
  the way that shot is done is you've got, you know, the two
• 40:26
  quarks on the top of the hill, then Tool appears in the middle
• 40:31
  of them. You zoom in on the three of them
• 40:33
  and then you finish with the close of the quarks.
• 40:35
  That is a really effective reveal of, you know, this unseen
• 40:40
  menace that has been, you know, obliterating people as we go.
• 40:44
  You know, we've had that horrible sort of nuclear blast
• 40:48
  effect on on the female Dossian with we've had the lemon peel
• 40:53
  squeezer being. Blown up.
• 40:56
  Blown to shit, though. I mean, that literally flies
• 40:59
  across that quarry. It does.
• 41:01
  It's, I mean it's just was it a model shot that they've just
• 41:04
  superimposed or was it actually? I don't know that looks like a
• 41:07
  That looks like a real explosion to me.
• 41:10
  It does. Look, I'm sure there's a bit of
• 41:11
  false perspective in there, but, you know, so we'd know these are
• 41:15
  quite nasty bits of work and then we'll actually get to see
• 41:17
  them. And that's what you're going to
• 41:18
  be left with until next week, isn't it?
• 41:20
  You're going to have that picture of that quark left,
• 41:25
  thinking come back next week and see more, more of it.
• 41:28
  And if you'll forgive me, Quickie, oi, unplug yourself
• 41:31
  from the wall. I mean, look at him.
• 41:34
  Honestly, that's a that's an ingenious You've never seen
• 41:36
  anything quite like that before. No.
• 41:38
  And then box with a crystal one, is it?
• 41:41
  Yeah. Yeah sorry the with the little
• 41:43
  arms it's it's it's again it's a classic 50 sort of design of a
• 41:47
  chunky robot. You know, it's not like sort of
• 41:51
  like tape and lines like a Dalek or it's almost like a dollar.
• 41:54
  It is Monica Chumbley. It's box shaped with you know.
• 42:00
  But those sort of quirky looking robots?
• 42:04
  Sorry Quickie, are they they they stick in the heads.
• 42:09
  You know they're. Memorable.
• 42:11
  Absolutely. It's it's a design that's
• 42:13
  lasted. I mean, we'll see them in this
• 42:15
  story, we'll see them at the end of the War Games, but they're
• 42:18
  probably endured more than any other sort of one shot monster
• 42:21
  that we've had. And, you know, Hazeman and
• 42:24
  Lincoln were not daft. They did the fight for the
• 42:28
  quarks because they knew this was a marketable thing.
• 42:32
  Absolutely. Was.
• 42:34
  Yeah, I'd have been had a similar fight, you know, over
• 42:36
  the Fat Daleks. No, nobody wanted them anyway.
• 42:40
  Now, listen, now, I promised you that Quickie would in fact,
• 42:44
  inform you of some of his delightful adventures around
• 42:46
  time and space. Yep.
• 42:48
  Since, you know, you know, before he landed in the ports.
• 42:50
  Bella Rd. I mean, I don't know how he
• 42:52
  ended up with that strange fella on that market stall.
• 42:55
  There we go. That's another adventure.
• 42:57
  So by. What's that?
• 43:02
  OK, What's that? A race.
• 43:06
  OK, so apparently right, he met this doctor again, you know?
• 43:12
  Well, he was reprogrammed to become a space assassin and
• 43:18
  ended up in a old fashioned car race with the 2nd Doctor.
• 43:23
  Have you heard about this? I.
• 43:25
  I think it rings a bell, to be honest.
• 43:27
  I might have heard about this. Yeah, it's basically just going
• 43:29
  round and round on a track, trying to shoot the buggery out
• 43:32
  of Patrick Trout's Doctor. That sounds like a very exciting
• 43:36
  adventure, I must say. Well, come back and come back in
• 43:38
  Episode 2 and tell us some more. I am not kidding you.
• 43:42
  He's been here, there and everywhere.
• 43:44
  Invasions of Gallifrey, you know, trials he's been.
• 43:48
  He's done it all. But you and I, Mr. Fraser
• 43:52
  Gregory. We'll be back for the comical
• 43:55
  antics of Fraser Hires and Patrick Trouten in episode 2.
• 44:00
  What a treat. What a treat.
• 44:02
  Well, should we go and watch it? Yeah, let's do it.
• 44:05
  Let's do it. 4. A.
• 44:41
  Hamster with a blunt penknife for doing quicker.
• 44:48
  Welcome back to A Hamster with a Blunt Penknife, the 1930s sci-fi
• 44:54
  commentary podcast where we are going all out with the space
• 44:59
  opera and discussing everyone's favorite story from 1969, The
• 45:03
  Dominators. I am back with my two Co hosts.
• 45:07
  First up is the one and only Mr. Joe Ford.
• 45:09
  Say hello, Joe. Hello, Joe.
• 45:12
  It's always nice to get that into that gag yourself.
• 45:15
  Thank you very much. And we are joined by our second
• 45:20
  very special guest. It's not so hard for one, but
• 45:23
  for one, you're missing your sight.
• 45:25
  It is the one and only quickie the.
• 45:27
  Quarks, yeah. Oh, right.
• 45:31
  I didn't keep it down. I can't believe you got along
• 45:34
  with this thing. Bless you, Fraser.
• 45:35
  What's that? Oh, did you hear what you just
• 45:38
  said there? I.
• 45:39
  Didn't. He said obey the dominator.
• 45:41
  Oh. Well, you must be the one in
• 45:43
  charge here. Well, you know we'll come.
• 45:46
  We'll come to that later down. You know who is in charge, which
• 45:48
  dominator is the. Well, there's a lot to talk
• 45:51
  about there, you know, and I think Rusty Davis was paying
• 45:54
  attention to this story, you know, because there's a bit of a
• 45:57
  charge between this pair. Oh, absolutely.
• 45:59
  Yeah, they're they're face to face at some points.
• 46:02
  Yeah. Unfortunately, their enormous
• 46:04
  breastplates means they can't be entirely face to face.
• 46:08
  That's a hell of a costume in it.
• 46:09
  It's that #dominate at it's. I think that might be #dominate
• 46:14
  it's yeah, I mean it's is it a bit much?
• 46:19
  But the. The costume.
• 46:24
  No, it's not. It's imposing, I'll say that.
• 46:27
  It's not. It goes back to what we said
• 46:29
  about the the dulcion costumes last time.
• 46:33
  It's a deliberate attempt to make something a bit different.
• 46:36
  So it's not just, you know, box standard, you know, aliens in
• 46:42
  trousers and shirts and whatnot. It's, you know, this is an alien
• 46:45
  culture and needs to look very different from anything we've
• 46:48
  done on Earth before. And so they've given them the
• 46:51
  tops and trousers with the the flappy bits on.
• 46:54
  I still can't remember what that reminds us of.
• 46:56
  There's another sci-fi show that I've seen something very similar
• 46:59
  to that in which I can't quite please, I mean.
• 47:02
  I'm sorry for it, but anyone looks like a hippie in this.
• 47:05
  It's those dominators with those flared trousers with all the
• 47:08
  paper on it. Yeah, the shoulder pads.
• 47:10
  But I think that that's that that collar really works as well
• 47:15
  because it means that, you know, they do have to be face to face
• 47:19
  for a confrontation. It means that they don't, you
• 47:22
  know, you can't just have one of them turn their head to each
• 47:25
  other. They've got to turn the whole
• 47:26
  body type. Batman.
• 47:27
  You know, Batman in the movies apart from Christian Bale, can't
• 47:31
  move his head from play to side. He has to move his entire body
• 47:35
  in those early films, and the dominate is exactly the same.
• 47:38
  They've got to turn to face each other.
• 47:40
  They have to give a certain type of performance into costume,
• 47:43
  don't they? I don't think full.
• 47:45
  Body. Performance.
• 47:46
  There's much ability to be nuanced.
• 47:50
  As a dominator, I think maybe that's not the point.
• 47:53
  I mean, I think there is because when they aren't facing each
• 47:56
  other, that's where the nuance comes.
• 47:58
  We have because we haven't talked about them at the minute,
• 48:01
  but. Ronald Allen.
• 48:02
  Ronald Allen. Yeah.
• 48:04
  Is is does great work where he is kind of like coming out the
• 48:08
  ship and that he's he's talking with kind of thighs.
• 48:11
  But you know he's the subordinate, so he doesn't look
• 48:13
  at him and that that whole. I can't just turn and look at
• 48:17
  him. I would have to turn me full
• 48:19
  body. That really adds to that, that
• 48:20
  sort of like I'm the one in charge.
• 48:22
  You stand behind me, or you stand at the side of me, and I'm
• 48:24
  not even going to look at you while I'm giving you orders.
• 48:26
  Because you are beneath me. You are beneath.
• 48:30
  Me. A lot of people say it's the
• 48:31
  other fellow who's got the suppressed rage.
• 48:33
  I think it's Ronald Allen is waiting to burst at this video
• 48:37
  that he's having. To deal with.
• 48:38
  He's he's just simmering a ways and I think.
• 48:41
  You know, it reminds me of you have been to a convention, No?
• 48:44
  OK, you get the older Doctor Who fans, so a bit more experienced.
• 48:48
  And then you get the tempestuous younger Doctor Who fans, you
• 48:51
  know, who, you know, feel like they've got to shout the
• 48:54
  loudest. And their opinion, it's got to
• 48:56
  be heard, you know? And the older ones, well, I've
• 48:58
  got my opinion now. I know what I'm thinking.
• 49:01
  I feel like this is the dynamic between the two dominates.
• 49:03
  You know, I've seen it a few times where they just look at
• 49:06
  them going, oh gosh, let's let them talk.
• 49:10
  Bless. So, so which are you at the
• 49:11
  convention then? Are you Torba or?
• 49:15
  I've got a fucking Doctor podcast.
• 49:16
  Which one do you think I am? Honestly, my opinions heard far
• 49:19
  and wide. You're the you're quickie.
• 49:22
  Actually, I'm, I'm the quiet one.
• 49:23
  Do you know? Yeah, because Jason Thompson
• 49:26
  made a comment when we were in a room with Fraser Heinz, right?
• 49:30
  And it was only a small gathering of people and we
• 49:33
  would, it was a live commentary of two of the five men.
• 49:39
  And Fraser Heinz was just talking throughout it to to, you
• 49:42
  know, a select few of us. And then the room got open out
• 49:45
  to questions. Well, who is the, you know, the
• 49:48
  master of asking questions during their commentary?
• 49:53
  That would be you. I didn't say a word and Jason
• 49:56
  Thompson made a point of saying I'm really surprised that the
• 49:59
  person who asked so many questions doing commentary
• 50:01
  podcasts did not ask a question. And that's because actually I'm
• 50:04
  quite quiet in a group setting like that.
• 50:08
  I was doing it one-on-one with you.
• 50:10
  It's the easiest thing in the world.
• 50:12
  But yeah, so I think I am actually the quiet fan who is
• 50:16
  kind of assured with what I think, but I don't feel the need
• 50:20
  to start stamp all over anybody unless I'm doing this for you.
• 50:24
  So you're the dominant and not the probationer.
• 50:27
  That's right. I'll write that in my book.
• 50:31
  I should just write that down, yes.
• 50:34
  Honestly, I don't expect sex gags from you, you know?
• 50:38
  Well, look, should we dive into into Episode 2?
• 50:40
  Well, yes, since we are talking about Fraser Haynes and live
• 50:43
  commentaries, we'll probably should watch Fraser Haynes and
• 50:44
  do live commentary on him because we've got some really
• 50:47
  good stuff coming up here. So would you like to count this
• 50:49
  into episode 2? I would, I would quickly just
• 50:51
  gone for a little lie down, you know.
• 50:53
  Yeah, the batteries, they don't last long.
• 50:55
  They really don't you. Know, I mean.
• 50:56
  These cool ones are worse but. They exhaust.
• 50:59
  Are they doing this as well? Their power just drops down
• 51:02
  every two minutes. Absolutely.
• 51:04
  I was going around shooting things.
• 51:05
  That's why. OK, I'll count as in, shall I?
• 51:08
  Go on. In 54321 Let's Go, I always
• 51:18
  think people say I'm wrong, but I always think Patrick Trout
• 51:21
  looks a bit sinister. You know in this title sequence,
• 51:23
  the way he comes out of that Venetian he does strangeness.
• 51:26
  Zoom out here and then just melt away, doesn't he?
• 51:28
  It's a bit. But he does look like a kindly
• 51:30
  uncle. Then he when he materializes,
• 51:33
  he. Does look.
• 51:35
  Fraser, we've not talked about a Patrick Tran story before, have
• 51:38
  we? I mean, we've talked about it on
• 51:39
  Naima, but not on Hamster. No, because Will we did, because
• 51:43
  we did the two doctors we say. Now I think that's a very
• 51:47
  different 2nd doctor. It is a very second doctor in
• 51:51
  this. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 51:53
  So then, would you care to enlighten me of where Trout and
• 51:57
  falls for you? That's a very good question
• 52:03
  because I haven't got a very quick answer to that is.
• 52:08
  Would you rate him? Oh, absolutely.
• 52:09
  Yes, absolutely. I mean, but that's the thing.
• 52:11
  There's no doctor that I don't rate.
• 52:13
  There's just some I rate more than others, if that makes
• 52:15
  sense. So, you know, someone like Matt
• 52:17
  Smith is right at the top of the pile.
• 52:21
  You know, Tom Baker's up there as well.
• 52:23
  Patrick Trouton would have to come sort of top half, I would
• 52:28
  say, I think. Isn't my top three Patrick
• 52:31
  Trown? I mean the problem I get is that
• 52:35
  once you start ranking them, you start getting towards the bottom
• 52:38
  and then just start it. Feels like well, and it feels
• 52:40
  unfair as well doesn't. It you just went out with steam
• 52:43
  because you then you say, well, I don't want to say you know,
• 52:46
  like Chris Hudson or Paul McGann because they just haven't done
• 52:49
  as much as the others was. Yeah, you know.
• 52:52
  And well, you know, they are a big fan of Big Finish, so
• 52:55
  they're they're racking it up, you know, on audio.
• 52:58
  You know it just so and it's always fluid as well.
• 53:01
  So you know on a certain day I'm going to be like oh I want to
• 53:03
  watch a pert way and another day I'm going to be like you know
• 53:05
  what I can't be doing with them just being a Dick to everyone.
• 53:08
  So it's it is quite fluid. But Patrick Trout, when I
• 53:12
  absolutely rate, I think he did such an amazing job in coming in
• 53:16
  in season four when he did and being the new Doctor.
• 53:21
  Because without him doing that, we've got no for sure.
• 53:26
  For sure. You know, if you think back to
• 53:28
  season season three is again, it's another massively troubled
• 53:33
  year of production you've got. You've got producers and script
• 53:40
  writers and companions coming and going like we've got prime
• 53:42
  ministers and chancellors and their home secretaries at the
• 53:45
  minute. But I do think the most
• 53:48
  extraordinary creative things happen in season three, as old
• 53:52
  as the show passes through all those different hands.
• 53:54
  They do you know it's it's doesn't disappoint in that
• 53:58
  respect but you know what you do get is by the time William or
• 54:03
  leaves is that the show is very much kind of on its up as and
• 54:07
  you think it needs something now it needs yeah it needs that
• 54:11
  little. Just the assurance of a lead
• 54:14
  that can remember his lies. And that's not a sly on Hartner,
• 54:17
  who I think is incredible, but he was ill, like he's not
• 54:20
  getting away from it. Absolutely.
• 54:22
  But you know, if you look back even to day one, you know these
• 54:26
  line readings aren't, you know, 100% accurate.
• 54:29
  But it doesn't matter because. No, you can make it part of his
• 54:33
  character. That's the genius of it.
• 54:35
  Absolutely. If you think about it, you think
• 54:37
  sort of you know who does talk like that?
• 54:40
  Who does get everything right every single time up the
• 54:43
  normally words left, right and centre?
• 54:45
  Well, that's what's great about this podcast.
• 54:46
  You know it's not edited to hell like some of them.
• 54:48
  It's not, you know. This is undiluted Fraser
• 54:51
  Gregory. Exactly.
• 54:53
  And you, that's what you get with Tartanal's doctor is, you
• 54:55
  know, well, obviously, you know Ian Chesterton comes in and it's
• 55:00
  perfectly acceptable for him to call him Chatterton or
• 55:03
  Chatterton, you know, a few times until he gets to know him
• 55:07
  better, until he gets to kind of appreciate him.
• 55:09
  But you know when we get to sort of you know there was that last
• 55:14
  recording block of the season three, those last few few
• 55:18
  stories, you know and the production on on wanting them
• 55:20
  there as well. You know, his health is it's
• 55:23
  kind of like the mutual we need to kind of get out of this.
• 55:26
  It's getting a bit toxic. And they were looking for
• 55:30
  creative reasons to do that, won't they?
• 55:33
  Exactly. You know, that could have
• 55:35
  happened and totally then, but for then ago, right.
• 55:38
  So we're going to recast the the star of the show completely.
• 55:44
  It's going to be a completely different person.
• 55:46
  It's not even going to be like a mind robber where we're going to
• 55:49
  try and bring someone in. It looks a bit like them and
• 55:51
  like like bring like Richard turned on in or something.
• 55:54
  We're going to go all out. We're going to completely change
• 55:57
  the character. We'll have a space reason for
• 55:59
  doing it, but we don't really understand that.
• 56:01
  So we're not going to dwell on that because fudge that a little
• 56:04
  bit. They can fill that in later in
• 56:06
  the 80s. Exactly.
• 56:09
  You know, so the very reliant on Patrick Trump being able to come
• 56:11
  in and win over the audience and say see it with them, Yes, I am
• 56:16
  Doctor Who now. And it's a rating success.
• 56:19
  Those early travels are it's sort of 8 million.
• 56:22
  Again, it's, it's on the rise. But you know, Fall's like, I
• 56:25
  feel like fall's like a gestation period where and I
• 56:27
  think it's the longest gestation period of any doctor I think
• 56:31
  I'll find sort of settling on. And it happens around sort of
• 56:34
  the macro terror, the moon base. Yeah, Five.
• 56:37
  He then gets a formula that he can kind of relax into and be
• 56:41
  super confident in that, sort of based on this thing.
• 56:44
  That's why I like 6. Because you've got the very self
• 56:47
  assured performance of Patrick Trout now, who knows how to do
• 56:50
  this? And then you've got the sort of
• 56:54
  diverse genres and things that they're playing about with and
• 56:59
  the different styles of storytelling include this.
• 57:01
  This wouldn't really have hit in season five.
• 57:05
  I don't think. It doesn't.
• 57:06
  It doesn't fit the formula. It's not based under Siege.
• 57:08
  It's. Not based under siege, but I
• 57:10
  think. Planet under siege?
• 57:12
  No, it it doesn't make the formula, but again that's that's
• 57:15
  not a bad thing because. No, it's great.
• 57:18
  You know, we do need that that variety of that bit of a mix to
• 57:20
  keep us, keep us entertained. But what you get is, you know,
• 57:24
  you have that Season 4 where we, you know, fancy speak.
• 57:26
  You then get Season 5, which although formulaic, has got him
• 57:31
  and Fraser Hynes and Debbie Watland.
• 57:36
  Yeah, magic together. It's magic together.
• 57:39
  It's the chemistry between the three of them, isn't it?
• 57:41
  Yeah. And then you get Season 6, where
• 57:44
  Debbie Watson's gone, but then you get Padas in when your Padre
• 57:46
  comes in and that magic is still there, that chemistry.
• 57:49
  Is. I mean, for me it's even better.
• 57:51
  It is I I love the arrogance of Zoe and I like how she's
• 57:55
  arrogant with both Jamie and the Doctor, Absolutely.
• 57:58
  And we need a woman like that, you know?
• 58:00
  We do, but what happens by the time you get to season six,
• 58:04
  unfortunately, is that Pat Trout is now being flogged to death.
• 58:09
  Yeah. And I think that the finances
• 58:11
  are running a bit dry as well. The finances are a bit dry and
• 58:14
  again the production side of things is starting to weaken a
• 58:18
  bit. As you know, like I say town
• 58:20
  sticks is up and coming and Derek Sherman are up and coming,
• 58:23
  but the others are kind of got one eye on other things and.
• 58:29
  It's. It's running out of steam, and
• 58:31
  you can tell that by the time you get to like Seeds of Death
• 58:35
  in the space. Well, we're going to talk about
• 58:36
  that, all right. We are.
• 58:38
  That's a very broad opinion. At some point, you know, maybe,
• 58:41
  maybe it's 2025, Get round to that one.
• 58:44
  You know, you can even tell it in this one, you know, because
• 58:48
  he's not on location. You know, he's had to kind of
• 58:51
  back down from location. The Doctor and the TARDIS team
• 58:57
  don't arrive until 5 minutes into the story.
• 58:59
  Space pirates, they barely feature.
• 59:01
  They're barely in that the 6th episode they they're only in
• 59:04
  filmed inserts in episode 66, but at their best in six.
• 59:10
  The mind robber, the the war games, the invasion.
• 59:15
  I mean, it's gold. It's absolutely.
• 59:17
  Gold. Even with them, you know,
• 59:19
  running on fumes, The productions running on fumes,
• 59:22
  The TARDIS team owned on fumes. What is keeping the show
• 59:25
  together? And limps it, as it were,
• 59:27
  towards the War games and towards its next big, you know,
• 59:31
  shot in the arm boost. Is Patrick Trouton.
• 59:35
  Yeah. And that chemistry has with
• 59:37
  Fraser Heinz and with Wendy Padley.
• 59:39
  If Fraser Heinz had left in the sea to death, you know it would.
• 59:42
  The show would just stumble. I don't know.
• 59:44
  I don't know. I think.
• 59:46
  I think Trout and Padbury do wonderful things when they're on
• 59:50
  their own together. Would the not have brought
• 59:52
  another companion in at that point though?
• 59:54
  Possibly, although it would be a bit weird for a couple of
• 59:56
  stories, wouldn't it? It would, I thought, to think it
• 59:58
  would quite. It it worked out for the best.
• 1:00:01
  Let's say it like that. It did.
• 1:00:04
  Do you know? Sorry, I I knew that was going
• 1:00:06
  to be a big question that was going to take us halfway through
• 1:00:07
  the episode talking about Patch Tramp.
• 1:00:09
  There's a big. Topic of It's a big topic, yeah.
• 1:00:12
  I want to talk about the design very quickly.
• 1:00:14
  Yeah, because I think the design of the Dominator spaceship is
• 1:00:18
  one of the best designs of any spaceship.
• 1:00:21
  It's. Brilliant, isn't it?
• 1:00:22
  They've. Got all those funky, weird
• 1:00:25
  visuals going on on the wall, You know, very, very 1960s.
• 1:00:29
  Yeah, yeah. And do you know what's the best
• 1:00:31
  thing? Is that little display of all
• 1:00:33
  the different quarks? The turn.
• 1:00:37
  Off when they. When they power down.
• 1:00:40
  Yeah. It's such a great visual.
• 1:00:42
  But it's got lots of other little quirks as well, like the
• 1:00:45
  way they get stuck to the wall. Stuck to the wall and then
• 1:00:48
  obviously they haven't got the the money to show a wall
• 1:00:51
  sliding, so it's just done by cameras.
• 1:00:54
  Well, Fraser Hines his face going now as well.
• 1:01:00
  This is Barry Newbury, isn't he? And he did some extraordinary
• 1:01:03
  work in the 60s. We're now in the city and you've
• 1:01:06
  got a son in the backdrop. You've got these weird egg
• 1:01:09
  shaped chairs. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:11
  Fabulous cityscape. I.
• 1:01:12
  Mean you've got the full, you've got the plants, you've got sort
• 1:01:15
  of like the curtains behind and you've got them sitting with
• 1:01:17
  these sort of flowing dress like robes.
• 1:01:19
  It's very Greek. It's very sort of ancient Greek.
• 1:01:23
  Yeah. You know, which speaks back.
• 1:01:25
  You know, if you think like enlightened cultures, you think
• 1:01:27
  the Greeks, you think you know we haven't just got, you know,
• 1:01:31
  posh boys now haven't got a plant of the boss.
• 1:01:33
  Johnson's just sitting around talking.
• 1:01:35
  We've got Greek philosophers. That's the kind of angle that
• 1:01:38
  it's coming at. So but you know you can't just
• 1:01:41
  put them in a robe and a toga, you've actually got to do
• 1:01:43
  something Spacey. So you have space toga, which
• 1:01:46
  unfortunately does look a bit like a dressing, a curtain mixed
• 1:01:50
  together it. Does I put like, you know, I
• 1:01:53
  don't think they're particularly philosophising.
• 1:01:55
  They're basically just sitting around, you know, pontificating.
• 1:01:59
  And what I love about it is, is that fella always goes, you
• 1:02:02
  know, it doesn't matter who's coming in is Zoe and Cully, or
• 1:02:06
  even if it's the dominator. He goes, excuse me, have you got
• 1:02:09
  an appointment? It's very funny.
• 1:02:14
  It is. It's that again, it's that sort
• 1:02:16
  of like hubris of like you can't invade our planet without proper
• 1:02:20
  people does. Someone actually say that they
• 1:02:25
  should. They should.
• 1:02:26
  Do. It oh, this comedy.
• 1:02:31
  Oh, this is this is brilliant. This is asking.
• 1:02:34
  Patrick Charlton to play like a dumb arse.
• 1:02:37
  Oh yeah. He does it so well, but it's,
• 1:02:42
  you know, because, you know, it's kind of, you know, there's
• 1:02:46
  a little bit less subtlety in this one than there is another.
• 1:02:49
  There's another stories he does have that sort of like I am the
• 1:02:53
  clown, you will underestimate me, but you know that will be to
• 1:02:57
  your downfall sort of thing. It's.
• 1:02:58
  It's made a lot more explicit in this.
• 1:03:00
  You're right. Actually, yes, that's always
• 1:03:02
  their present in those stories, but it's it's a bit subtle.
• 1:03:05
  They're almost like mocking it here, aren't they?
• 1:03:08
  But oh, it is great like and what's great is one of the
• 1:03:12
  dominators thinks, Oh my God, they're fake as shit.
• 1:03:14
  This pair and the other one, Ronald Allen's one, is like,
• 1:03:18
  Nah, they're playing. Us.
• 1:03:20
  Well, this is it. But they've had that other scene
• 1:03:22
  where they've scanned Jamie. Haven't They've scanned Jamie
• 1:03:28
  and he's like just, Oh, well, yeah, he's quite normal show
• 1:03:33
  sign of rapid, you know, learning and that sort of thing.
• 1:03:39
  And then the scan one of the dulcines later on.
• 1:03:42
  Don't they do the same with that?
• 1:03:43
  And they go, oh, this one's got two hearts, you know, And so
• 1:03:49
  they're like, oh, well, so the scan, Jamie, like, should we
• 1:03:52
  scan the Doctor? No, there's no point.
• 1:03:53
  They're obviously just the same because, you know, he's doing
• 1:03:56
  that act and then the scanner dulcines later on.
• 1:04:00
  Oh, I've got two hearts. And you're like, Oh, well, what
• 1:04:03
  would have happened if they'd scanned the Doctor then at that
• 1:04:06
  point? Wow.
• 1:04:08
  You know either. Maybe, Robert, I was just paying
• 1:04:10
  attention. Well, this is it.
• 1:04:12
  It's either the the two hot thing comes in there and we'll
• 1:04:18
  see. Oh well, the Doctor's Physiology
• 1:04:20
  is different or the whole tooth hard things never happens in the
• 1:04:25
  whole of Doctor Who. You know, that's.
• 1:04:28
  Reason honestly, you entice me. That that's really interesting
• 1:04:32
  bit, but then. Oh, look at this.
• 1:04:34
  I'm sorry to interrupt. The Doctor and J will be holding
• 1:04:36
  hands and jumping off the. I mean, I'll pay good money just
• 1:04:41
  to watch Trown and Heinz goofing around like this, But it is
• 1:04:44
  very, very funny. It is the bit where he's having
• 1:04:47
  to do the puzzle and he's getting electric shocks because
• 1:04:50
  he's not getting it right. And he knows he can't get it
• 1:04:52
  right because he's trying to pretend he's thick.
• 1:04:54
  It's. Really.
• 1:04:55
  Great. Honestly, she's beautiful that
• 1:05:00
  cando, isn't she? She is, but then you have that
• 1:05:03
  bit where Patrick tokens like in Fraser Hinds up being so like
• 1:05:06
  dynamic and Ronald Allen's just stood there being so still and
• 1:05:12
  menacing and but yeah, so the talent, did you say?
• 1:05:17
  Talent. Is that her name?
• 1:05:19
  Cando. Cando.
• 1:05:22
  Yeah, beautiful. Yeah, absolutely beautiful, I
• 1:05:25
  thought. I mean, I'm not sure this planet
• 1:05:27
  is particularly a strong representative for women.
• 1:05:31
  But it's it's, it's. Better than you know.
• 1:05:34
  The planets will get in. Sort of like the Hinchcliffe.
• 1:05:36
  Oh yeah, you are. Or even in even.
• 1:05:40
  In. Where there's a vague suggestion
• 1:05:41
  that women have died out in the future, you know, and men are
• 1:05:45
  just cloned. Oh, it's very strange seeing
• 1:05:50
  trouting with a gun. Yeah.
• 1:05:52
  Isn't it? Because even when he has that
• 1:05:54
  that weapon in the Seeds of Death is, you know, it's a holy
• 1:05:57
  old lash up, but wires all around his neck and things like
• 1:06:00
  that. Oh, but he's he's two bin lids.
• 1:06:03
  Oh, look at you. Saying, oh, I think it's for
• 1:06:06
  killing people. I don't know really.
• 1:06:07
  He's so cheeky. I think Ronald Allen knows the
• 1:06:14
  whole time. Ronald Allen's Playing This is
• 1:06:20
  it's Frankenstein's monster. Yeah.
• 1:06:24
  You know, and I need a credit Toby Haydock for that sort of
• 1:06:29
  point because, you know, Toby Haydock just done a comment on
• 1:06:32
  this and you know, always points out how cadaverous the
• 1:06:36
  Dominators look especially. Well, it's in the make up as
• 1:06:38
  well. It's got this.
• 1:06:39
  Thick sort of make. Up under the eyes.
• 1:06:41
  Eyes, which is exactly what they did with them with Boris Karloff
• 1:06:45
  in Frankenstein movie back in the 30s.
• 1:06:50
  So he's kind of playing it very much that sort of like stiff,
• 1:06:54
  lumbering and. You know, I think that probably
• 1:06:58
  is quite freaky kids watching, you know, And he does get angry.
• 1:07:05
  But really, I'm not. I'm not going to call his
• 1:07:07
  performers one note, because I don't think it is.
• 1:07:09
  And you only have to watch Ambassadors of Death to see what
• 1:07:12
  an incredible actor he is, because it's a very, very
• 1:07:15
  different role from this. I think he's doing a really good
• 1:07:17
  job in this as well because the two could be the.
• 1:07:20
  Stillness, isn't it? It's the the statuesqueness.
• 1:07:24
  I think I've just made-up that word.
• 1:07:25
  No, no, it's a word. Well, it is now.
• 1:07:29
  Who's the other guy? Kenneth Ives.
• 1:07:32
  Who is that else? You don't.
• 1:07:34
  I don't think you did too much. We'll have a I'll have a look in
• 1:07:36
  the brick between this. OK, well let's have a little
• 1:07:39
  look at his IMDb he. Did pass away quite recently.
• 1:07:42
  It wasn't too long ago that we lost Kenneth Ives.
• 1:07:46
  I don't want to say again, the physical effects in this thing
• 1:07:49
  are really impressive. That he just fired that gun and
• 1:07:52
  a massive lump on the wall blew out behind Patrick Trouton's
• 1:07:55
  head. The People thinks the rest of
• 1:07:57
  McCoy looks impressively cool when he walks away from the ring
• 1:08:02
  in second, acts Trout and barely blinked yourself.
• 1:08:08
  But this is a story that's criticized for its look.
• 1:08:11
  It is, yeah. It's a lot more stylish than
• 1:08:13
  people give it. Credit.
• 1:08:15
  What you need to remember is it's we're seeing it in black
• 1:08:18
  and white, but when you look at the photos it was all in colour.
• 1:08:22
  I mean that Dominator ships all sort of greens and purples and
• 1:08:26
  there's a lot more colour going on in here that we just can't
• 1:08:29
  see. But so far, you know, we've
• 1:08:30
  talked about like vast cityscapes, We've talked about
• 1:08:34
  location work, big explosions. There's a bit of money here.
• 1:08:38
  And this was done the tail end of five, wasn't it?
• 1:08:40
  I don't think this was done at the beginning of six.
• 1:08:42
  So the money was a little dry at this point.
• 1:08:44
  Yeah, yeah, it was the tail and this one and the main robot
• 1:08:47
  together and then went in. Look at that.
• 1:08:50
  Fabulous monorail behind Zoe there.
• 1:08:52
  Honestly, I can see a train shooting off.
• 1:08:54
  Oh, I can also see a boom mic on the backdrop, but nevermind.
• 1:09:01
  It's a Spears make. That's right.
• 1:09:04
  Yeah, that's right. Well, no, because they're
• 1:09:06
  talking a lot in this chamber. They need the mics up there.
• 1:09:10
  Throw their voices. Oh, do you like these?
• 1:09:14
  These little trains they go in? Where's the shuttle?
• 1:09:17
  It's a shuttlecraft. So, so is that going along the
• 1:09:20
  what we just saw there that you know it's.
• 1:09:22
  An actual like shuttle, so it's like a proper like buck, Roger
• 1:09:26
  style. Do we actually see it flying?
• 1:09:28
  Yeah, we see it flying. I think we've talked over that
• 1:09:30
  bit. We might see you again because
• 1:09:33
  they have to crash it later on because they realize that
• 1:09:35
  they're in the shuttlecraft going back to in Central, and
• 1:09:42
  it's like, Oh well, there's going to be like dominators and
• 1:09:44
  quarks there. So they have to kind of like
• 1:09:47
  Jamie has to dangle the Doctor by his feet.
• 1:09:49
  Oh, that's physical comedy. Yeah, it's best as well.
• 1:09:52
  And there's a bit where he's tearing out all the.
• 1:09:54
  Circuitry and all. That yeah, now that I because
• 1:09:58
  from what I hear Trout was a little bit unkind about this
• 1:10:00
  script and said yeah this one is not the best I've done but you
• 1:10:04
  can see he's literally putting in 150% to make it as
• 1:10:08
  entertaining as but I think he's trying even harder here though
• 1:10:11
  you. Always does and that's what I
• 1:10:13
  say about Season 6 is that it is just fuelled by by him and and
• 1:10:19
  Fraser and Wendy Padbury that they just keep this going and
• 1:10:23
  they keep it going longer than and it turns out better than it
• 1:10:29
  probably should have done because of.
• 1:10:32
  This quark design, Yeah, I want to talk about the sort of
• 1:10:39
  childlike and almost comic look of the quarks.
• 1:10:45
  And I don't mean that as a criticism because I think this
• 1:10:48
  is leaning into the same sort of thing that they do with the
• 1:10:51
  troll doll in terror of the Autons.
• 1:10:55
  And it's something the Doctor Who does extremely well.
• 1:10:56
  Like I think a lot of people can look back on Classic Crew and go
• 1:10:59
  all those things just look fucking ridiculous.
• 1:11:01
  But kids were scared of this stuff at the time and I think
• 1:11:05
  the incongruence of something absurd looking that actually,
• 1:11:11
  yeah, you could laugh at it. You know what, It's going to
• 1:11:13
  blow your face off. I think that's really effective
• 1:11:17
  when you put, when you drop. Suppose those two things.
• 1:11:19
  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's it is that thing of
• 1:11:23
  something that does look and sounds childish as well.
• 1:11:27
  You know, it sounds cute. It looks cute.
• 1:11:30
  I think that's a bit sinister though, yeah.
• 1:11:32
  Absolutely. Childlike voice Sometimes when
• 1:11:34
  Quickie is coming down the corridor, you know hideaway.
• 1:11:38
  Yeah. Now I think I think it's it's a
• 1:11:43
  cleverer design than I ever gave you credit for.
• 1:11:45
  I just used to say I was just an egg boxing owner, but I actually
• 1:11:48
  think it's visually appealing to children because of its
• 1:11:51
  simplicity. Yeah, it was.
• 1:11:53
  I see how good they're going to scan them now and see the two
• 1:11:56
  hearts, but it's. Lovely shot of his hairy legs
• 1:12:00
  there, you know. Walking around, you know, not
• 1:12:03
  just kind of static like you would have with like maybe the
• 1:12:05
  Dalek, you know, because you can't move it around all the
• 1:12:09
  time, so. But yeah, there's something
• 1:12:11
  about the flappy arms as well coming out of the quarks,
• 1:12:14
  because I think that's something that kids can easily imitate.
• 1:12:17
  Absolutely. You can be a quark.
• 1:12:18
  Going around with your flappy arms.
• 1:12:21
  Yeah, this is this is where we need Sigh Hart with these two,
• 1:12:24
  the youth of how he used to play quarks in the playground.
• 1:12:27
  Is that true? I would imagine so.
• 1:12:29
  Yeah, I would imagine so. We're not.
• 1:12:32
  It's not yet to die yet. So I'm going to say that
• 1:12:34
  actually happened. In the wake of him being here,
• 1:12:37
  we'll just say that's. True.
• 1:12:38
  That's true. Well.
• 1:12:39
  You used to go around with a bit of string, pretending it was
• 1:12:41
  canine. You know, you know.
• 1:12:44
  It's so. Cute.
• 1:12:46
  Oh, it just melts my heart. Every time he talks about.
• 1:12:49
  Oh, look at these quarks walking on location.
• 1:12:52
  They must have had terrible trouble, you know.
• 1:12:55
  But again, you know it's you can get them out on location if you
• 1:12:58
  think you know what the heck to do in Destiny the Daleks to get
• 1:13:01
  Quark Daleks on. You wish there was quarks.
• 1:13:04
  Imagine if it was Daleks versus quarks in that instead of.
• 1:13:07
  That would have been amazing, wasn't it?
• 1:13:11
  Yeah, To get those Daleks in that quarry, they you can see
• 1:13:14
  the legs of the the people walking, is it?
• 1:13:16
  The same quarry of I just made. That it's very possible that all
• 1:13:20
  within you know the M25 and that sort of ring Rd.
• 1:13:25
  I think. I don't think it's one you can
• 1:13:27
  go and visit because I think it is still a working quarry, so
• 1:13:31
  you can't like literally just turn up and go.
• 1:13:34
  Is it Gerald's cross where they did two of the sidemen?
• 1:13:36
  Is it there? It might be that one.
• 1:13:38
  Yeah, I think it might be because actually it looks.
• 1:13:40
  Very. Nothing.
• 1:13:41
  It's it's sort of reddish. Yeah, it looks more tomb than
• 1:13:45
  than destiny. Destiny.
• 1:13:46
  I think it's more rocky than. Is it like a pebbly sort of
• 1:13:49
  quarry? Do we believe Carly as his sort
• 1:13:52
  of teenage? I don't.
• 1:13:54
  Think he's supposed to be. I don't think he's supposed to
• 1:13:56
  be teenage rebel. I think he's just a rebel.
• 1:13:59
  I don't think it's supposed to be like he's not playing the
• 1:14:02
  James Dean character. I think he's more playing the
• 1:14:03
  Bruce Willis character. He's more the the older sort of
• 1:14:10
  person. He's not like young and full of
• 1:14:13
  women vitality and what he is sort of like more mature and but
• 1:14:18
  still because of the way the society is, you know a 30 odd
• 1:14:22
  year old man is still the rebel youth.
• 1:14:24
  You know what I mean? You look at his dad who's the
• 1:14:28
  council leader and he's you know considerably older.
• 1:14:31
  So I think that's just the way the society is.
• 1:14:33
  It's it's like like hobbits, you know, the age.
• 1:14:39
  I certainly think it's an effective performance.
• 1:14:41
  I don't disbelieve Arthur Cox in the role.
• 1:14:45
  Yeah, I think it's, you know, you've you've got to look at the
• 1:14:48
  society and think, well, where is that, you know, John McLean
• 1:14:52
  going to come from where? Where do they get that?
• 1:14:55
  The person that is going to be running up and down hills
• 1:14:57
  lobbing grenades at Quarks, it's not necessarily going to be a
• 1:15:01
  teenager. It is going to be.
• 1:15:05
  I think people, I think people have a bit of trouble with that.
• 1:15:07
  Like they kind of feel like it should be instead of this sort
• 1:15:10
  of middle-aged overweight. It's not going to be though,
• 1:15:14
  because they haven't got any anyone like that.
• 1:15:16
  All they've got is middle-aged looking because of the way that
• 1:15:20
  society. Is sitting around the whole
• 1:15:21
  time, you know, exactly getting overweight.
• 1:15:24
  Yeah, this is. I mean, when you're in a
• 1:15:26
  society, your idea of fun is to go on to, you know, take a lemon
• 1:15:29
  squeeze out and drive it onto a radioactive island.
• 1:15:33
  You know that is if that's all you've got for for shits and
• 1:15:38
  giggles, then you know your man that's going to be your big
• 1:15:41
  action here is going to be that tape of character Person is
• 1:15:44
  Cully. He's a wonderful line, doesn't
• 1:15:46
  he? Where he goes?
• 1:15:48
  What am I talking about? They haven't paid me yet.
• 1:15:50
  I'm going to get off him. You've got to say as well, you
• 1:15:53
  know, isn't a bad story for cliffhangers.
• 1:15:55
  They blew the shit out of that set that him and Zoe were
• 1:15:57
  standing in a minute. Yeah.
• 1:15:58
  You have the ceiling falling in and everything, yeah.
• 1:16:00
  Yeah. Yeah, it's it's it's crap.
• 1:16:03
  It's rattling along, isn't it? It's.
• 1:16:06
  In no way as terrible as I perhaps perceived it to be in
• 1:16:11
  the past. Are you ready for this?
• 1:16:14
  Are you ready to hear more about Quickie's adventures?
• 1:16:17
  Quickie, come out. Come back.
• 1:16:18
  Come on, come back. Here he is.
• 1:16:20
  Here he is. Here.
• 1:16:20
  He is always whispering in my ear now.
• 1:16:24
  Oh, I'm always very excited about this.
• 1:16:26
  OK. Oh, wow.
• 1:16:28
  Razor, wait till you believe this.
• 1:16:30
  This is an alternative dimension that you're going to want to
• 1:16:32
  visit. So yeah, he skipped over to the
• 1:16:35
  alternative dimension where the quarks were the dominant power
• 1:16:39
  in the absence of the Daleks. But what's that?
• 1:16:45
  It didn't stay very long. Now apparently there was a
• 1:16:48
  battle with the Croton Imperium and the Oberon Confederation.
• 1:16:53
  Apparently it got a bit dicey, so he skipped out of there
• 1:16:56
  pretty quickly. Blame me, that fan wank, for
• 1:17:00
  God's sakes. That's an actual story.
• 1:17:03
  You know, that's a that's a comic strip.
• 1:17:05
  I mean, I always say quarks or crotons.
• 1:17:09
  What exactly the? Yeah, that's that's that's been
• 1:17:11
  correct default question, you know when people say ask me any
• 1:17:13
  question about Doctor Who was like right, Quarks or Crotons?
• 1:17:15
  Well, maybe that's why they were at war.
• 1:17:17
  Hang on, Quickie, is this why they were at war in the
• 1:17:19
  alternative universe? Are in fact the Quarks an
• 1:17:22
  offshoot of the Crotons? Oh, he said.
• 1:17:24
  Don't be ridiculous. Well, bugger off then, honestly,
• 1:17:27
  if you're not going. To say anything useful, I wasn't
• 1:17:28
  expecting gruntly to be in there.
• 1:17:31
  Gruntly. Gruntly the Ogron.
• 1:17:33
  I think he was in that alternative universe, you know,
• 1:17:35
  he was like the leader of the the, what are they called, the
• 1:17:38
  Ogron Confederation planets. Yeah, I.
• 1:17:41
  Can see that's I can see gruntly being emperor of those.
• 1:17:45
  I mean, I will say one thing that is the wankiest thing I've
• 1:17:48
  possibly ever read out in my life.
• 1:17:49
  However, it is wonderful how Doctor Who inspires the
• 1:17:53
  creativity of people's imaginations.
• 1:17:57
  Yeah. Fraser, Are you ready to skip
• 1:18:01
  into episode 3? Ready as I'm ever going to be.
• 1:18:06
  OK, let's do it. Let's do it.
• 1:18:44
  Hamster with a blunt pen knife for doing quicker.
• 1:18:50
  Welcome back to A Hamster with a Blunt Pen Knife, the Doctor Who
• 1:18:54
  Commentary Podcast. At the risk of flogging this
• 1:18:59
  joke to death, I have sent Quickie off to an Amazon box in
• 1:19:03
  the next room and I'm telling him he's not quite till the end
• 1:19:07
  of the episode. I'm going to send him off to
• 1:19:09
  Stephen Alexander, who's very jealous.
• 1:19:11
  So I've got a quark in my house. Think advance jealous you've got
• 1:19:14
  a quark in your house. Stop it.
• 1:19:18
  I am here with the delightful Fraser Gregory, one of my
• 1:19:23
  absolute favouritest people in the entire world.
• 1:19:27
  We are here talking about one of his favouritist.
• 1:19:31
  Yes. Two stories, yeah.
• 1:19:34
  More strange and perverse reasons the dominators.
• 1:19:39
  Fraser. How you doing?
• 1:19:40
  I'm. Good.
• 1:19:41
  I'm good. How are you?
• 1:19:42
  We had a bit of a break and we sort of half an hour I'll have a
• 1:19:44
  little cat nap. Yeah, I'll bear.
• 1:19:48
  I fed the dogs. I've got the log burner burner
• 1:19:51
  logs. It looks very inviting, I'll
• 1:19:54
  have to say. OK, well, I did just have a
• 1:19:58
  quick com flag with Marlborough downstairs, and he's got a
• 1:20:01
  question for you. Yes, indeed.
• 1:20:05
  So Mark's question is, had the quarks been, you know, a
• 1:20:09
  meteoric success and, you know, they were dashed back in like
• 1:20:15
  the Daleks? Yes.
• 1:20:17
  Which story would you insert them in and why?
• 1:20:21
  Oh, Terror of the Autons. That's a good call.
• 1:20:28
  Oh my God, they could have been marketed as toys.
• 1:20:30
  Yeah, absolutely. Instead of Autons, the master is
• 1:20:34
  sort of, you know, now the master of the quarks and not
• 1:20:40
  just those. And then?
• 1:20:41
  That does sound like one of those comic strips, you know.
• 1:20:44
  Yeah. Yeah, So he's he's kind of going
• 1:20:45
  around with them, you know, getting them to do his, his
• 1:20:48
  dirty work sort of thing. And then obviously, at some
• 1:20:50
  point they'd have to turn on him and he'd have to, like join
• 1:20:53
  forces with the Doctor to defeat the Quarks do.
• 1:20:55
  You remember that scene when there's the alt on in the safe?
• 1:20:59
  The Doctor would be going to the Brigadier.
• 1:21:01
  Look out, quarks. Imagine.
• 1:21:04
  John Burke, we say the. Quark would be the safe.
• 1:21:07
  It would just like transform into a quark.
• 1:21:10
  But. Mark in a, in a typically, you
• 1:21:12
  know, imaginative moment, said actually they'd be the perfect
• 1:21:17
  villains for a Sarah Jane adventure.
• 1:21:20
  Oh yes, which I think is. True.
• 1:21:22
  And then he devised a scenario where, like Amazon boxes, they
• 1:21:30
  go into a warehouse and it looks like they're just full of boxes
• 1:21:33
  and all of a sudden the arms and the head had burst out and
• 1:21:38
  they're surrounded by quarks. Right.
• 1:21:40
  So when's when's he picturing that?
• 1:21:41
  The Big Finish I. Don't know, but it needs to be
• 1:21:43
  done. They did do a they did do a
• 1:21:45
  story, you know, with Toy Daleks, which turned out it was
• 1:21:48
  written by Christopher H bid me. It was so bad he took his name
• 1:21:50
  off it. Yeah, I don't know.
• 1:21:54
  That sucks. A nice idea, don't you think?
• 1:21:57
  Tell him to write it. Tell him to write it properly.
• 1:21:58
  Well, have you heard his intros to watch Who?
• 1:22:00
  I mean, he's pretty much right in his own version of Doctor Who
• 1:22:03
  as he goes along. Yeah, I wrote those intros.
• 1:22:06
  Those Oscars ceremonies where they.
• 1:22:08
  It just, it warms my heart every time I hear him doing anyone and
• 1:22:11
  to watch who he's just having so much fun, bless him.
• 1:22:13
  It's just. Amazing.
• 1:22:14
  Sarah's there. Roll her eyes.
• 1:22:16
  Going. On.
• 1:22:16
  My God, like, what am I doing? Do you know what's like?
• 1:22:20
  It's even more of a win, though. When she joins in I.
• 1:22:22
  Know. And she just goes for it, you
• 1:22:24
  know? Do you want I think, Was it
• 1:22:25
  Spear from Space, the series 71 where he had a helicoptered in
• 1:22:30
  across every location? Of season 7.
• 1:22:35
  That's so. Funny, Bless his heart.
• 1:22:37
  Imagine living with him. Honestly, it's a thrill a
• 1:22:40
  minute, I'll tell you. Can imagine.
• 1:22:43
  Razor Shall we watch episode three of the Dominators?
• 1:22:45
  We. Should we, should we should
• 1:22:47
  watch this and talk about this and say nice things?
• 1:22:49
  Okey Dokey. Well then, if you are willing to
• 1:22:52
  count us in. I certainly will be.
• 1:22:54
  Let's go. Let's go in 54321 play.
• 1:23:02
  Now I've been thinking about a question for you whilst I've
• 1:23:05
  been away, you know? But it was stewing in my head
• 1:23:08
  whilst I was sleeping. Why?
• 1:23:13
  I know, I know, right? What's a knife lit on that
• 1:23:15
  though? It was Snuggle, it was lovely.
• 1:23:18
  Why is this story so? I'll regarded like where does
• 1:23:23
  this come from with certain stories like Underworld and
• 1:23:27
  Time, Lash and. Yeah, I think there's there's a
• 1:23:31
  few variety of elements. I think, you know, there's the
• 1:23:34
  part of it is around sort of like the production of it, you
• 1:23:37
  know, the the costumes of the Quarks, the cost, not the
• 1:23:42
  Quarks, the the Daussians, the costumes of the Dominators
• 1:23:45
  themselves. You know, it does draw a bit of
• 1:23:47
  ridicule. I think the fact that it is five
• 1:23:51
  parts and possibly doesn't need to be 5 parts is is another
• 1:23:56
  thing. A lot of people call it boring
• 1:23:57
  though. That's the the main that sort of
• 1:24:01
  criticism I hear. Well, I would say Doctor Who can
• 1:24:04
  survive anything but being boring.
• 1:24:06
  And I think the ones I don't really enjoy.
• 1:24:09
  And I enjoy most of it, because I could even enjoy bad Doctor
• 1:24:12
  Who. As long as it's camp and silly
• 1:24:14
  and bright and bold, you know, and ambitious, but like
• 1:24:18
  something light on the world where it is.
• 1:24:22
  I know you've explored Underworld recently.
• 1:24:25
  Yes? What the TV story as well.
• 1:24:27
  Yeah, yeah, I've read the book and then I've watched the the TV
• 1:24:30
  story. But I think you know, Underworld
• 1:24:33
  is it isn't that bad. It's not as bad as everyone
• 1:24:37
  makes out. Certainly the book.
• 1:24:38
  If you read the book first, which is what I've done, you
• 1:24:40
  know. I think it's a good way to start
• 1:24:42
  actually. It does because it kind of, it
• 1:24:44
  takes out that element that, you know, big elephant in the room
• 1:24:48
  of the CSO sets. It takes all that out of you and
• 1:24:51
  it works a lot better. I like the CSO in Underworld,
• 1:24:54
  though I think. I think it's pioneering.
• 1:24:58
  It's pioneering. It doesn't always work.
• 1:24:59
  It doesn't always like I mean. What they just they didn't.
• 1:25:01
  That they didn't have the technical expertise.
• 1:25:03
  No, they weren't absolutely trialing a new effects methods
• 1:25:09
  on the fly. You know, you look at programs
• 1:25:12
  like Mandalorian now, and maybe one can all be.
• 1:25:15
  They're all done with. There's not a single physical
• 1:25:18
  set in there. It's all just, you know.
• 1:25:21
  To do it on that budget and those lack of resources, props
• 1:25:24
  to them. But it's just like I think the
• 1:25:26
  story is a little plodding and. I think it's.
• 1:25:30
  Tasteless and. Not necessarily.
• 1:25:33
  It's like, you know you have the first episode set on the the
• 1:25:37
  spaceship, you you crash into the underworld and then you have
• 1:25:39
  like the three episodes following that with the the
• 1:25:45
  Trogs or whatever they call them, the underground patrol
• 1:25:48
  diets. Yeah, been kind of doing that
• 1:25:51
  sort of mutiny bit. But with, with this one, with
• 1:25:55
  the dominators, I think you know, I just don't see.
• 1:25:57
  Everyone leaps on this one. I lived on this one, you know,
• 1:26:01
  So I mean, I think, what's? What's boring about it, That's
• 1:26:04
  my question, is, what's what's actually boring about this
• 1:26:06
  story? I mean I think it's it has
• 1:26:08
  actually got a fair bit of pace as well at times.
• 1:26:11
  Yeah, I think it's. There is a lot of scenes of
• 1:26:14
  people sort of standing around talking or sitting around
• 1:26:17
  talking. Maybe that's the problem?
• 1:26:20
  But you know, these scenes aren't bad scenes.
• 1:26:23
  These are not just like, I mean the the one I want to come back
• 1:26:26
  to is the scene in The Tame Monster where Jon Pertwee is
• 1:26:29
  dicking on with his wine bottle. You know that is that is a story
• 1:26:35
  going nowhere. Well, it.
• 1:26:37
  Is. But I'll tell you what I feel.
• 1:26:38
  I still feel that scene is distilled Doctor Who.
• 1:26:40
  It is literally making magic out of odds and ends.
• 1:26:44
  Yeah, but it's it's literally a man sitting at the table talking
• 1:26:47
  to people. One of the character, the
• 1:26:49
  Brigadier, is literally stood next to him saying should we not
• 1:26:54
  go and fight the Master now? Should we not go and attack the
• 1:26:56
  Master? And should we not, should we not
• 1:26:58
  just go and do something? John Pitt?
• 1:26:59
  We. And John Pitt was like, Nope, I
• 1:27:00
  need to put tea leaves on the top of my spoons and spin it
• 1:27:03
  around and oh. Because he's trying to create a
• 1:27:04
  device to stop the time distortions and all that.
• 1:27:07
  It's an absolute nonsense bit of padding and it doesn't really
• 1:27:10
  work. And it's the most egregious
• 1:27:12
  thing about it is that it is. Oh, egregious.
• 1:27:14
  It's in the middle of an era which is run by town Sticks, and
• 1:27:18
  town sticks is the master of. Surprising it will never.
• 1:27:21
  It's surprising that it's it's as sort of terrible as it is.
• 1:27:25
  The thing is, it's noticeable. It's absolutely it sticks out,
• 1:27:28
  as you know, and it is literally because you know.
• 1:27:31
  Part of it is because the Brig is literally sat there going,
• 1:27:34
  should we not move on with the plot now?
• 1:27:35
  Should we not? Move down.
• 1:27:36
  Well, it literally has the Brigadier running on the spot in
• 1:27:39
  episode one, trying to move the plot on.
• 1:27:44
  That's that's the scene always come back to us, right?
• 1:27:46
  There you go. There's bad padding.
• 1:27:47
  That's that's an example of where the padding doesn't work
• 1:27:50
  when you've got something padded in here and we're going to come
• 1:27:52
  to it in an episode or Two's time.
• 1:27:53
  Which is the the main scene where having argued and argued
• 1:27:58
  and argued for four episodes while going to about actually
• 1:28:02
  get down to an actual confrontation.
• 1:28:06
  And that's that is the bit that 10 Sticks wrote.
• 1:28:09
  It's terrific. That's terrific.
• 1:28:11
  You know, and. Because it comes to a head,
• 1:28:14
  doesn't it? Yeah, and he calls his bluff.
• 1:28:16
  Yeah yeah I mean 10 sticks padded in two ways he firstly he
• 1:28:20
  would put a chase scene in you know he had but the budget
• 1:28:23
  source stick John Pertwee and Bessie and all blast around and
• 1:28:28
  people. That's always fun.
• 1:28:30
  It's absolutely fun. It's great fun.
• 1:28:32
  Really passes the time. You know, he gets a whole
• 1:28:34
  episode out of it. And Planet of the Spiders, and
• 1:28:36
  it's marvellous. Or it has arguments, People
• 1:28:39
  argue about stuff, and that's a prime example.
• 1:28:42
  And it just, it works. You know you're not watching it
• 1:28:45
  thinking, oh, this is how I don't split anything subjective.
• 1:28:49
  But I don't see how people can watch a scene like that and go,
• 1:28:51
  well, I'm bored now watching these two argue.
• 1:28:54
  I've often pointed at, like reference books that came out in
• 1:28:57
  the 90s, early 2000s as having sort of concreted fan wisdom
• 1:29:05
  over the years. But is it a case that a story is
• 1:29:08
  identified as like a weak link and then everyone else sort of
• 1:29:12
  just piles on top? Like, they don't really look for
• 1:29:16
  the strengths, They just go, Oh yeah, that's the duds, and we
• 1:29:18
  can all rip the shit out of that one.
• 1:29:22
  That's an element of it as well. I think you know receive fan
• 1:29:28
  wisdom plays a part in it that you know back in the day someone
• 1:29:32
  thought it was bad that someone had was fortunate enough to
• 1:29:35
  write a book. That book was one of few
• 1:29:39
  resources that other fans had to to learn about Doctor Who about,
• 1:29:45
  you know, especially if you hadn't seen it the first time
• 1:29:47
  around. If you're in the 80s and 90s and
• 1:29:49
  you haven't had the opportunity to see these stories in the in
• 1:29:52
  the 60s and the 70s that you know these reference books are a
• 1:29:56
  bit of a Bible, you know we don't have access to other
• 1:30:00
  opinions that we do know. That's how I was going to say,
• 1:30:02
  you don't have the Internet then, do you?
• 1:30:03
  So you don't have and you don't have podcasts and you don't
• 1:30:06
  have, you know, so now there's this diverse myriad of opinion,
• 1:30:09
  this multiverse of opinions about the dominators out there.
• 1:30:13
  And if you want to go out there and find a positive an opinion,
• 1:30:15
  well, there's going to be a Fraser Gregory there waiting to
• 1:30:18
  tell you how marvellous this is. Absolutely, absolutely.
• 1:30:20
  You know, you get the opposite as well.
• 1:30:22
  You'll know for every story that you you love, you will find
• 1:30:25
  someone now that will quite happily, you know, take a dump
• 1:30:29
  on it. But.
• 1:30:30
  But I think, I think we're stimulated to think about things
• 1:30:33
  now, aren't we? Like to give a unique opinion
• 1:30:36
  rather than to just sort of accept.
• 1:30:38
  Yeah, that's terrible. But I think you know we're we're
• 1:30:42
  in a better position now that where we can you know through
• 1:30:44
  podcasts, through Twitter, through blogs as well like your
• 1:30:48
  own. We're now in a better position
• 1:30:50
  to say actually this is the receive wisdom and This is why I
• 1:30:55
  disagree with it and why I do agree with it.
• 1:30:57
  And you know, people now have more opportunities to put their
• 1:31:01
  opinions across, for better or worse, you know?
• 1:31:04
  So I've always I had to put on my block at one point.
• 1:31:08
  Yeah, in the byline. This is a subjective opinion
• 1:31:13
  because people were coming at me as if I was telling everybody
• 1:31:16
  this is how you must think. Well, this is it.
• 1:31:20
  I think this also happens Doesn't you know you we'll go
• 1:31:25
  out and say oh this is brilliant, this is brilliant and
• 1:31:27
  you will get people that come back at you and say it's not OK,
• 1:31:30
  fair enough. You'll go out and you'll say
• 1:31:31
  this is awful and dire and miserable and you'll get people
• 1:31:34
  that come back with and say it's not again absolutely fine.
• 1:31:37
  What you find is it goes, I find it goes in a bit of a cycle.
• 1:31:43
  You know you have ups and downs of popularity.
• 1:31:47
  So you know, good good example something like the the
• 1:31:49
  gunfighters where you have that is, you know accepted fan wisdom
• 1:31:54
  that is terrible story and it goes, you know, people think
• 1:31:57
  that until people actually get the chance to see it and more
• 1:32:00
  people get to say actually you're wrong and it gets higher
• 1:32:04
  thought of. But then you get something like
• 1:32:07
  David Tennant who starts off being really, really popular.
• 1:32:11
  But because it's popular, the popular thing then becomes to
• 1:32:14
  say. Actually, you see as good as all
• 1:32:17
  that. Yeah.
• 1:32:18
  So there's an element that people will be contrary because
• 1:32:23
  it makes them feel cool, you know, that people will think, Oh
• 1:32:26
  well, I'm going to say that Genesis of the Daleks is
• 1:32:28
  terrible because. I think you and me, in fact our
• 1:32:31
  dear friend Simon Arts thrown at both of us so we can be a bit
• 1:32:34
  contrary at times and it can be fun.
• 1:32:36
  Me saying that Series 8 is better than Series 5 can be fun.
• 1:32:40
  You saying the Dominators as an all conquering classic can be
• 1:32:43
  fun. It.
• 1:32:44
  Can be. And I think, you know, I'll
• 1:32:46
  acknowledge that to myself that there was a certain element that
• 1:32:48
  if you say it to me, you know, watch this, it's brilliant.
• 1:32:52
  It's the best story ever. You know, there's a part of me
• 1:32:54
  that is going to go, let's find the faults then, you know.
• 1:32:58
  And if you, if you do the opposite, if you say it to me,
• 1:33:01
  here you go. Watch this one.
• 1:33:02
  It's absolutely diabolical. Look at the effects.
• 1:33:05
  Aren't they rubbish? This story is just a nightmare.
• 1:33:07
  I'll sit and I'll go. Right.
• 1:33:10
  Let's pull out the positives then.
• 1:33:11
  So. But you know, I think that's
• 1:33:13
  something that makes you very interesting because I think
• 1:33:15
  there is an element of you of like, I think like when we
• 1:33:19
  talked about the 10th Doctor on Rose, and that's a dynamic that
• 1:33:22
  was so popular, you know, and it's the one that everyone goes,
• 1:33:25
  well that's the best of Doctor Who.
• 1:33:27
  The rest should just all be ignored.
• 1:33:28
  And there's you sort of picking it apart, saying is it as good
• 1:33:31
  as all that? Let's look at this properly.
• 1:33:33
  And in the same breath you'll look at something that's shat on
• 1:33:36
  from a great height, like the Dominators, and go, we'll
• 1:33:39
  actually look at all the really good stuff that's in there.
• 1:33:41
  I think you can you can do. But that's different.
• 1:33:44
  Sorry, sorry. It's different.
• 1:33:46
  What you do is different from like somebody creating a Twitter
• 1:33:52
  account and, you know, visibly hacking people's threads just to
• 1:33:57
  go Jodie Whittaker's, you know, the worst thing ever to happen
• 1:34:00
  in Doctor Who. You know, because what you're
• 1:34:02
  doing is stimulating conversation and you're
• 1:34:06
  encouraging the person to talk back and say, well, why do you
• 1:34:09
  think that? Yeah, that's that's that's very
• 1:34:12
  kind of it this year. Thank you.
• 1:34:13
  You're very welcome, but. This is why you are whoring
• 1:34:17
  yourself out on all these other podcasts.
• 1:34:18
  Because you're very good at this, you know.
• 1:34:21
  That do me best, but not that there's absolutely just.
• 1:34:23
  Calling you a whore. Sorry.
• 1:34:26
  Stop it. There's absolute truth in that
• 1:34:29
  is that, you know, people do get attention from being negative.
• 1:34:35
  That people, these people will go out out of the way to find
• 1:34:40
  mention of Geordie Whitaker and say Chris Chiblal and you know
• 1:34:45
  say something negative because they know that they are going to
• 1:34:48
  get a response. It's trolling basically.
• 1:34:51
  It's you know, I'll say something bad.
• 1:34:54
  I'll get the attention through that because then someone's
• 1:34:56
  going to come out as four or five people will come at us and
• 1:34:58
  I'll have an afternoon of of human interaction or but yet
• 1:35:02
  people, you know, slateness and whatnot.
• 1:35:05
  So there is that, that that kind of element to it.
• 1:35:08
  But I think, you know, you can be critical, but you can also be
• 1:35:15
  fair and positive as well. Or you can just do what me, me,
• 1:35:19
  grandma used to say, and if you can't say anything nice, don't
• 1:35:22
  say anything. So.
• 1:35:24
  You know, but I think you know, if if you look at that way, your
• 1:35:27
  people do have a right to opinion.
• 1:35:28
  People do have the right to say, actually, I don't enjoy this, I
• 1:35:31
  don't enjoy, I haven't enjoyed this era.
• 1:35:34
  So I hearts will always say that you know, Peter Capaldi's era
• 1:35:38
  was his least favorite era. But, and that's fair, fair
• 1:35:41
  enough, you know, we're all going to have ones which we
• 1:35:43
  favour above the others as long as, you know, we're respectful
• 1:35:47
  of of everyone's opinion of saying, well, OK, you've said
• 1:35:51
  that I disagree. How am I going to express that
• 1:35:54
  to you? Am I going to just come steaming
• 1:35:56
  in with, you know, 2 short sentences?
• 1:35:58
  Or am I actually going to try and have something a bit more
• 1:36:00
  nuanced with you about it? But you know, one of the worst I
• 1:36:04
  think is, is it's not even, you know, those trawlers, it's the
• 1:36:09
  the sheep. They're the ones I really don't
• 1:36:12
  like. And I used to be that person
• 1:36:13
  because I used to say to to my ex-husband, oh, everybody's
• 1:36:17
  saying that about this. And he'd go, oh, really?
• 1:36:21
  Who's everybody? You know, they're all saying
• 1:36:23
  this. Oh, who's they?
• 1:36:25
  You know, and you and you kind of take this sort of collective
• 1:36:27
  opinion and just make it your own.
• 1:36:30
  It's the sort of person that reads, you know, an article in
• 1:36:33
  the Daily Mail and then thinks they're the expert on that topic
• 1:36:37
  and. He goes to.
• 1:36:39
  Somebody, how many how many marketing experts have had in
• 1:36:42
  the last few weeks? Yeah.
• 1:36:45
  How many experts on pirates and script editing and special
• 1:36:48
  effects and CSO have we had over the last, you know, year and a
• 1:36:52
  bit and and whatnot. But like I say, it's it's fine.
• 1:36:55
  It's it's all subjective. That's your opinion.
• 1:36:57
  You know, remember, that's your opinion.
• 1:37:00
  Bear that I might, and bear that.
• 1:37:01
  I mean that my opinion is different.
• 1:37:03
  But also bear in mind that you know something that I love.
• 1:37:06
  If you're going to come and attack it, it's, you know, it's
• 1:37:09
  it's, it's likely to cause a bit of upset, you know, if you're
• 1:37:12
  going to, you know, come at someone and say, oh, this thing
• 1:37:14
  that you've just, you know, ranted.
• 1:37:16
  I don't think many people have any peripheral awareness of how
• 1:37:19
  you're feeling though, so. And again, you know, I find what
• 1:37:24
  I find difficult is, is when people are expressing a negative
• 1:37:27
  opinion is to to kind of back away from that.
• 1:37:29
  Because my instinct is always to say, well, I love this, so This
• 1:37:32
  is why. But I can have the same effect
• 1:37:33
  because you're like then well why are you attacking me for
• 1:37:35
  this? Why am I not allowed to not like
• 1:37:38
  this? Why can't I just say like what?
• 1:37:39
  Dominate this is dull and bone and rubbish and why do you then
• 1:37:43
  have to come steaming in with GG Quark gifts and and and all the
• 1:37:48
  rest of it is like yeah, that's that's a really good point.
• 1:37:50
  It's like if you don't like it, you don't like it.
• 1:37:53
  What's weird is that sort of that determination to crush some
• 1:37:57
  of the S's opinion, and it's like, you're never going to
• 1:38:00
  change my opinion. Why are you doing this?
• 1:38:03
  You're just making me feel bad. And you, you come across as a
• 1:38:06
  superior twat. Yeah, I mean, coming back to
• 1:38:11
  what we should be talking about the the Dominators, you know,
• 1:38:13
  we've got the scene now. Wow.
• 1:38:14
  This thing goes sometimes. You know, we've we've got the
• 1:38:18
  scene of them now in the the council room.
• 1:38:20
  They're all sitting around, you know, debating about it.
• 1:38:23
  And yeah, you might think people could look at this and go this
• 1:38:26
  is this is boring. But this really speaks to me of
• 1:38:28
  of this society again coming back to this this hubris of this
• 1:38:31
  society to say, well, all they can do because all they can do
• 1:38:35
  is sit around and talk about stuff.
• 1:38:37
  And that's why that's the sort of message that the writers are
• 1:38:42
  going for is you know this society thinks it's so
• 1:38:45
  enlightened because they've you know chucked away weapons and
• 1:38:48
  and whatnot. But look where it's it's ended
• 1:38:50
  them up in the face of a catastrophe you know it's it
• 1:38:54
  comes Brian can't the the actual director Secretary of State for
• 1:39:01
  emergencies and he's going to come in and give them the the
• 1:39:03
  three options which is basically you run away fight or sit and do
• 1:39:07
  nothing and or they can pick because they haven't got
• 1:39:10
  anything else to do is sit and do nothing but it's the way it's
• 1:39:13
  played out is I think is. What happens is the dominator
• 1:39:18
  just walks in. Yeah, there's no resistance.
• 1:39:20
  He just walks in and take the core.
• 1:39:22
  Kills one person. They're like, fuck, we're
• 1:39:24
  screwed. Exactly, because we we have
• 1:39:26
  literally got nothing else we can do.
• 1:39:28
  We've got no defence against this because we've given away
• 1:39:31
  all our defence essentially. And that's that's really the the
• 1:39:36
  and the message that Lincoln and here's Minogun for I.
• 1:39:38
  Think it's really, we kind of talked all over it at the
• 1:39:42
  beginning of this episode, but it's really portrayed when the
• 1:39:45
  Doctor comes in and says you are going to be invaded, you need to
• 1:39:49
  get up off your asses and fight these people because that's
• 1:39:52
  that's his approach and they're all sitting around going, well,
• 1:39:56
  we could, we could have a meeting about that in three
• 1:39:58
  weeks time. You know, first of all, we need
• 1:40:00
  to discuss the refreshments. You know, I'll tell you what,
• 1:40:04
  I've worked for people like this.
• 1:40:05
  I genuinely have been that person going, look, we're going
• 1:40:08
  to sell these things, you know, we don't get out there and get
• 1:40:11
  marketing. Well, you know what?
• 1:40:13
  We need to talk about the logo for the next 10 years, you know?
• 1:40:15
  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, we've all been there.
• 1:40:18
  It's like, OK, leave it with us. And it needs to go to, you know,
• 1:40:21
  the next level up and they need to sign off on it and he needs
• 1:40:23
  to come back. And you think like that's three
• 1:40:25
  or four weeks of a decision where if you'd made it now if
• 1:40:28
  you just went and said do that but the the other is that we
• 1:40:35
  need to look at is the thalls. Well, quite.
• 1:40:38
  Because the thalls are are very much the same in in the Daleks
• 1:40:42
  and. The first the.
• 1:40:43
  Same message, isn't it? Yeah.
• 1:40:46
  Why not? Because I think isn't the
• 1:40:48
  message here is pacifism is bad? That's the message, yes.
• 1:40:54
  The message there is, Oh no, it's kind of the same, isn't it?
• 1:40:57
  Yeah, they're saying you have to take up arms sometimes in order
• 1:41:00
  to. They do, but I think.
• 1:41:02
  Protect yourselves. It's it's interesting that you
• 1:41:04
  know the the thoughts get a pass because they do go and fight the
• 1:41:07
  Daleks eventually the dog, the Dawson's don't because
• 1:41:10
  essentially they don't you know, they're actually incapable apart
• 1:41:14
  from Cully, who's now turning into, you know, he's he's got
• 1:41:18
  that sort of grimy sweat on him, how she is becoming Bruce
• 1:41:20
  Willis. Romantic hero?
• 1:41:22
  Yeah. Give him a bandana and a machine
• 1:41:24
  gun and he'll be fine. You know, no one complained that
• 1:41:27
  Bruce Willis was a balding man. Saving, saving everyone.
• 1:41:29
  But if you'll forgive me, I think the morality in the Daleks
• 1:41:33
  is more black and white than the dominators.
• 1:41:37
  Because it's very clear, Yeah, in the story, no, they don't do
• 1:41:42
  this. Yes, they should do this.
• 1:41:44
  And then it has a positive outcome, whereas that doesn't
• 1:41:47
  work here. I think it's it's more black and
• 1:41:49
  white, but morality in the Daleks is a lot more troubling
• 1:41:51
  for me because essentially the Doctor and Ian forced the Thales
• 1:41:56
  into fighting. And a lot of them die.
• 1:41:59
  For no other reason than to get the Doctor spark plug back.
• 1:42:04
  Well, I mean, I do think the Daleks were planning on coming
• 1:42:06
  out and murdering them all as well.
• 1:42:08
  They do. They.
• 1:42:08
  Don't know that at this point. No, they don't know this at this
• 1:42:11
  point. The the Dalek plan of well,
• 1:42:13
  actually you know the Daleks don't even think of this
• 1:42:15
  themselves until they get the thaw drug and realize actually
• 1:42:17
  we are so reliant on radiation that the best thing for us is to
• 1:42:21
  flood the planet with radiation again.
• 1:42:22
  Then what could come out over city and take over blah blah
• 1:42:25
  blah that will destroy the Thaws.
• 1:42:26
  But here who? Such as life.
• 1:42:27
  I mean, it's troubling. I think it's more interesting.
• 1:42:30
  Yeah, because. It throws that shade on our
• 1:42:32
  regulars and we're like, yeah, is this right?
• 1:42:34
  Yeah. It's it's it's something that we
• 1:42:36
  really forget that in the very second story, you know, Ian
• 1:42:39
  literally is is going to drag Dionia.
• 1:42:44
  Yeah, Dionia, yeah. You know a way just to get a
• 1:42:47
  reaction so that they will then fate.
• 1:42:49
  What the only reason at this point in the story that they are
• 1:42:51
  going to fate is to get. To get that a bit of a good
• 1:42:53
  spot. But.
• 1:42:54
  Do you know what That you've just highlighted something
• 1:42:56
  brilliant there, though? Because that's the sort of
• 1:42:58
  sophisticated and sort of morally ambiguous
• 1:43:01
  characterization that's going on in the There's none of that
• 1:43:05
  here, really, is there? Like in Trout.
• 1:43:07
  This time we've ditched a lot of that.
• 1:43:09
  I think it's more subtle here. I think it's there.
• 1:43:12
  It's it's very subtle. Notice it?
• 1:43:15
  That's how subtle it was. I think you know at that time we
• 1:43:18
  don't really know where the the characters are on London.
• 1:43:21
  You know it's it's a brand new series.
• 1:43:23
  You know we know we've got this hero but he's very anti hero at
• 1:43:26
  this at this point. You know, a couple of weeks
• 1:43:28
  later, earlier he was willing to break a caveman on the head with
• 1:43:31
  a rock to get back to the ship, you know, so we haven't really
• 1:43:35
  settled on the Doctor Bean as this sort of champion of the
• 1:43:41
  wronged, as it were. You know, he is just very much a
• 1:43:43
  man trying to survive. Doctor is called out on the
• 1:43:47
  choices that he makes, whereas I don't think Trout's Doctor is.
• 1:43:50
  I don't think their companions are strong enough to say like in
• 1:43:54
  the Seats of Death. He goes around murdering a load
• 1:43:56
  of Ice Warriors and nobody says to him, should you have done
• 1:44:00
  that? No.
• 1:44:01
  No, he's if you look at him, he's a lot more manipulative
• 1:44:05
  than you would, you would think. I always look at Matt Smith as
• 1:44:09
  being a combination of the 2nd and 7th Doctors, because he's
• 1:44:13
  also got that that skill of being charming, disarmingly
• 1:44:19
  wacky and childish upfront. But underneath there's a lot of.
• 1:44:25
  What I find that we're trying. Out an angry.
• 1:44:27
  Matt Smith is is actually very deceptive because they sort of
• 1:44:31
  play up this childlike exuberance and they're capable
• 1:44:37
  of doing really terrible. What, you know, Solomon is
• 1:44:40
  appalling dinosaurs on a spaceship.
• 1:44:43
  Should the Doctor be able to say, no, do you know what?
• 1:44:45
  You deserve to die and walk away.
• 1:44:47
  Oh, I don't know. It's.
• 1:44:49
  I don't know. You know, I think it's
• 1:44:51
  interesting. Though with that one, I think
• 1:44:53
  you know the doctor gets pushed too far.
• 1:44:55
  You know Solomon pushes him and pushes.
• 1:44:57
  It's not just like Solomon is a bad man.
• 1:44:59
  The end Solomon is a bad man who continues to do bad things and
• 1:45:03
  bad things and bad things to the doctor.
• 1:45:05
  So you know the doctor knows as soon as he meets them.
• 1:45:08
  The stomach fishy here. And it turns out, yes, he's he's
• 1:45:10
  literally killed thousands of cydumines 1 by 1 by, you know,
• 1:45:17
  checking from the air dog. Then he shoots Brian, then he
• 1:45:20
  kills the triceratops, and then he, you know, threatens rape to
• 1:45:23
  Nefertiti. It's just an escalation.
• 1:45:26
  So you get to that point. Don't get me wrong, he's
• 1:45:28
  loathsome. Yeah, yeah, I.
• 1:45:30
  Think like in creative terms, he deserves to die.
• 1:45:33
  Is it? Should it be the Doctor that
• 1:45:35
  delivers? Choice, yeah.
• 1:45:37
  Delivers. That blow though is I think it
• 1:45:39
  gets to that point where it's, you know, and it would have been
• 1:45:43
  nice that it would make it a bit more.
• 1:45:44
  It's explicit that the Doctor has been pushed and pushed and
• 1:45:47
  pushed to the point where he does something that he shouldn't
• 1:45:49
  do because of how far he's been pushed.
• 1:45:53
  But coming back to to Trouton, you know, you see this in the
• 1:45:56
  end of the Ice Warriors, You see, you know, the Wall stood
• 1:46:01
  around. Eventually he's going well.
• 1:46:03
  We need to fire up the ionizer and ZAP the ship.
• 1:46:07
  And what do we do, doctor? And the doctor says, whoa, don't
• 1:46:08
  ask me, it's your choice, you know, it's like.
• 1:46:11
  I think the IO Suarez is one of the rare times in trans time
• 1:46:14
  where they really focus on character first above plot of
• 1:46:17
  monsters. And they're doing a bit, so a
• 1:46:19
  bit more interesting because you've got the whole sort of
• 1:46:21
  store Penley thing, haven't you? And Clint on the other side,
• 1:46:25
  Yeah, but going back to the Daleks quickly, you've got a
• 1:46:29
  clear definition of two sets of regulars either side of the
• 1:46:33
  argument. And they battle it out.
• 1:46:35
  Yeah, they could have done that here because you've kind of got
• 1:46:39
  Zoe, who's a bit enlightened from the future, and you've got
• 1:46:42
  Jamie, who's a warrior from the past.
• 1:46:45
  And that might have been a really interesting discussion to
• 1:46:47
  have. It would have been, yeah.
• 1:46:49
  I think the interesting thing about the Troutman year as well
• 1:46:54
  is how flat the team structure is as well, you know?
• 1:46:58
  Pulling out a Whitaker reference.
• 1:47:00
  There I am. Yes.
• 1:47:02
  You know, you look at the first doc, that's very much you know,
• 1:47:05
  I'm in charge. Susan's the granddaughter, you
• 1:47:08
  know, there was. I say I'll smack your bottom.
• 1:47:11
  Yes, talk about. Troubling.
• 1:47:13
  Yeah. Yeah, you know, and that kind of
• 1:47:16
  leads as well with in like Vicky as being the younger than the
• 1:47:20
  Doctor, being the elder character.
• 1:47:22
  You look at put we put where you're so much in charge, it's
• 1:47:26
  unbelievable, you know. And again, with the 4th Doctor,
• 1:47:30
  he's always the one that's, you know, pulling the strings, blah
• 1:47:33
  blah blah. You come with the 2nd Doctor and
• 1:47:37
  especially with this team, especially with Zoe and and
• 1:47:41
  Jamie, they are able to influence him a lot more than
• 1:47:45
  any companion is able to influence any other Doctor
• 1:47:49
  classic got. Father as well.
• 1:47:50
  He got it goes oh oh oh, right. Yeah, I mean, looking at the
• 1:47:56
  mind robber part one, you know, the the tortoise is getting in,
• 1:47:59
  is swallowed by lava, and it's Jamie and Zoe who were like, no,
• 1:48:03
  you need to do something. We can't just write this out.
• 1:48:05
  You're going to have to, you know.
• 1:48:07
  Well, it's when they're they're outside the targets beckoning
• 1:48:10
  him out. And he's going.
• 1:48:11
  No, I won't leave under any circumstances.
• 1:48:13
  Oh, God, my friends are in danger.
• 1:48:15
  I'm going. Yeah, you know, you can't
• 1:48:18
  imagine any other doctor where you know, you can't imagine.
• 1:48:20
  Like Joe Grant said, to pay with Doctor you need to, you know,
• 1:48:24
  eject us from this reality and you know, it just wouldn't fly.
• 1:48:28
  It's it's only really this one where they have that sort of
• 1:48:31
  influence on them. But I.
• 1:48:32
  Don't want to. I don't want to point out the
• 1:48:33
  dominators and say the characterisation isn't as
• 1:48:36
  sophisticated as the dialects. I don't think this era is as
• 1:48:41
  sophisticated in terms of character as the William
• 1:48:45
  Hartnell years. I think there's more distinct
• 1:48:47
  personalities working and the dynamics of just very different.
• 1:48:51
  You're right. They're generally always pulling
• 1:48:53
  in the same direction. Doctor, Jamie and Zoe, they're
• 1:48:56
  they're trying to defeat the monsters or bring down the
• 1:48:58
  villain or do whatever they're trying to do, you know?
• 1:49:01
  And I don't think you miss it because I have never missed it
• 1:49:06
  until we've had this conversation and I'm going, oh
• 1:49:08
  actually, maybe that would have been quite interesting here.
• 1:49:11
  It does make you think, doesn't it?
• 1:49:12
  It's another What if do? You.
• 1:49:15
  Know I'm truly hoping. I'm glad that quickie's in that
• 1:49:17
  box out there because I just saw a dominate a a quark in pieces
• 1:49:22
  with smoking legs and he's poor little ball rolling about in the
• 1:49:26
  quarry. Yeah.
• 1:49:27
  Absolutely appalling. Well look, he's, he's shouting
• 1:49:31
  something to me from the corridor now about one of.
• 1:49:35
  His adventures. What?
• 1:49:36
  What do you want to tell us about this time?
• 1:49:38
  Well, if you thought the last one was wanky, listen to this.
• 1:49:42
  I mean, this sounds like absolutely delightful.
• 1:49:45
  So he's recalling a particularly harrowing time when he was
• 1:49:48
  attacked by terrifying water pistols whilst being hidden away
• 1:49:53
  in one of the Celestial Toy Makers toys being utilized by
• 1:49:57
  the Tremus Master. Yes, that is a story that in
• 1:50:02
  fact does exist. The Tremus Master with the
• 1:50:09
  Celestial Toy Makers toy that turns out to be a cork.
• 1:50:14
  I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm with it because you know Quark and the
• 1:50:18
  toy maker goes well together. It's just.
• 1:50:21
  You. Bring in the Tremus, Master, and
• 1:50:23
  it's. Like, yeah, this is.
• 1:50:25
  This. It's just the big finish.
• 1:50:27
  No, no. But that's not that's that's a
• 1:50:29
  comic strip, you know? Yeah, if without some of those
• 1:50:32
  comic strips, you know, like when you're a child and you get
• 1:50:35
  an exercise book and you start scribbling away Doctor Who
• 1:50:38
  adventures full of all of your favorite elements.
• 1:50:40
  And I just, I just pulled a couple of exercise books off
• 1:50:43
  kids and went, right, let's go with it.
• 1:50:45
  Yeah, because that's kind of what that sounds like, doesn't
• 1:50:47
  it? And the other one with the
• 1:50:48
  ogrons and all that. Yeah.
• 1:50:50
  Right. Well, look Fraser, we didn't
• 1:50:52
  talk about too much about the dominators in that one, but I do
• 1:50:54
  think there are some interesting discussion there I.
• 1:50:57
  Think it was. I think it was.
• 1:50:58
  So we try and talk a bit more about them in episode 4.
• 1:51:02
  I'm absolutely desperate to do so.
• 1:51:04
  I do believe you've put something out on Twitter, you
• 1:51:06
  know? Have you had any responses?
• 1:51:09
  Let me have a look. OK, well, you have a look at
• 1:51:14
  that and fire it at me or I'll fire at you, whatever in episode
• 1:51:19
  4. A hamster with a blunt pen knife
• 1:51:56
  will do it quicker, quicker. Welcome back to Quark Life
• 1:52:04
  Commentary Podcast. All things dominate us into
• 1:52:10
  quarks. It sounds it sounds really
• 1:52:13
  enticing. All thing dominate us Oh.
• 1:52:16
  Stop it. Oh, sorry.
• 1:52:18
  Oh, sorry. Do you know what?
• 1:52:20
  I don't think I looked at that screen whilst during episode
• 1:52:22
  four of the Dominators. I looked at a few times and I
• 1:52:25
  thought we should really be talking about what's going.
• 1:52:27
  On in the screen. We make a concerted effort this
• 1:52:30
  time, but that's kind of like the nature of a classic or a
• 1:52:33
  clanger. It is interesting.
• 1:52:36
  Well, this is it. Oh, hi.
• 1:52:39
  Welcome to episode 4, by the way.
• 1:52:40
  I'm Freezer. This is Joe.
• 1:52:41
  Hi. Hi.
• 1:52:42
  Yeah, we're talking about. I'm assuming people have
• 1:52:44
  listened to episodes one to three.
• 1:52:46
  You would think so, but there's. Well, you don't know.
• 1:52:49
  People might just duck into one episode while they do that for
• 1:52:51
  episode 4, The Dominators. I've no idea, but there you go.
• 1:52:55
  What? Oh, what was I going to say?
• 1:52:58
  Yeah, so obviously, like a classic or a clanger.
• 1:53:03
  It's so well talked about for a clanger that you think you know.
• 1:53:13
  Is thanks to you. Yeah.
• 1:53:15
  But I mean, I think the classic example is our good friend Jason
• 1:53:19
  Miller and his Dominators theme podcast, which is confusing for
• 1:53:23
  Doctor Who literature. Oh, yes, the Dominators, Yeah.
• 1:53:26
  He hasn't got it yet, but he does.
• 1:53:28
  I'd like to mention the Dominators in each and every
• 1:53:30
  single episode. Well, we don't like it, does he?
• 1:53:32
  He loves it. Well, he says he doesn't like
• 1:53:35
  you, but this is the point for something that you don't like to
• 1:53:37
  be mentioning it over and over again, that it's it's a bit of a
• 1:53:40
  winning joke now that. He's had a lot of time in the
• 1:53:42
  mark, Ronnie, I thought, what's wrong with it, man?
• 1:53:44
  Honestly, he came on this thing to celebrate Warriors of the
• 1:53:48
  Deep. Yeah, but you were the same as
• 1:53:50
  well, you know, it got a running joke between us, didn't it?
• 1:53:53
  That you know you would be. Claxon.
• 1:53:55
  Dominate as claxon because you were coming on saying.
• 1:53:57
  Oh, hang on quick. He's just going to do it for us
• 1:53:59
  now. There it is.
• 1:54:01
  Thank you. There it is.
• 1:54:02
  You would be coming on and doing a commentary and you would say,
• 1:54:05
  Oh well, this is rubbish, blah blah blah, just like the
• 1:54:07
  dominators and that would be like.
• 1:54:11
  Bravo. It got the running joke of oh,
• 1:54:14
  does the dominator Clarkson, because you love it so much you
• 1:54:17
  can't stop talking about it. And I think that's that's the
• 1:54:20
  effect is like you know the Quark design.
• 1:54:24
  You know, people say it's it's not a good design, but it's
• 1:54:27
  memorable and it's it's endured across the the source 50 years.
• 1:54:33
  Those kids are laptop. Those comic strips.
• 1:54:35
  Exactly, exactly. You know, name me another sort
• 1:54:39
  of design that's just been sort of one off that still is in the
• 1:54:43
  consciousness of the fans, that we will instantly know what it
• 1:54:47
  is when you see it. Well, and do you know they put
• 1:54:50
  Quarks in one of the latest Big Finish unit sets, right?
• 1:54:55
  And the trailer came on and I'm sitting across the table from
• 1:54:58
  Mark and the 2nd that Quark sound effect was in the trailer.
• 1:55:03
  His eyes lit up like and you know what I mean?
• 1:55:07
  Something resonates. Absolutely.
• 1:55:09
  So you know, whether you you love it like I do, or you think
• 1:55:12
  it's a little bit boring in one of the worst stories ever made
• 1:55:15
  and you're completely wrong, like Jason Miller, you can't
• 1:55:18
  deny. Frequently.
• 1:55:21
  You can't deny that this story endures.
• 1:55:25
  Well, and do you know what? I think it was with me?
• 1:55:27
  I promise you we'll watch episode four of the Dominators
• 1:55:29
  at one point is I don't think I gave it a chance.
• 1:55:33
  I think I watched it. Yeah, I said this ain't no good.
• 1:55:37
  I'd already heard all the fan wisdom about it, and then I do.
• 1:55:41
  And then through people like you.
• 1:55:43
  And Mark's done it with me with like, Battlefield to watch who's
• 1:55:46
  done it with me with things like the Space Museum.
• 1:55:49
  Things are just completely written off that you know what
• 1:55:52
  I'm not going to say these are all conquering classics.
• 1:55:53
  These are stories I enjoy now because I've taken the time to
• 1:55:57
  study them. Well, I'd like to think someone
• 1:56:00
  else had a little hand in the Space Museum as well.
• 1:56:03
  Yeah, there was early days then, you know, it was early days.
• 1:56:06
  Honestly. Back then there was a few
• 1:56:07
  pauses. Now I can't get you to shut up,
• 1:56:09
  honestly. And this is it.
• 1:56:11
  Sorry, I've got to stop saying that to people.
• 1:56:13
  I keep inviting them on this thing and tell them to shut up.
• 1:56:17
  And Fraser, shall we watch Episode 4?
• 1:56:18
  Let's watch episode 4 and. Let's kind of catch up with a
• 1:56:21
  plot because I'm out of the loop now.
• 1:56:24
  Right, let's Are you going to count in?
• 1:56:28
  Yes, I will. In 5432, will you behave?
• 1:56:32
  Quickie one, Off we go. He's he's a very lively.
• 1:56:38
  Quark, isn't he? He is he?
• 1:56:40
  Oh, but he's good company. In the long lonely evenings, you
• 1:56:43
  know, we sit there and what's the dominate us together?
• 1:56:46
  He sits there lamenting the loss of his smoky friend in the
• 1:56:49
  quarry. Yep, mate, he's it's going to
• 1:56:51
  get a lot worse swim in the next book.
• 1:56:55
  I did notice Cully holding a gun towards him and because
• 1:56:59
  obviously they're not trained, are they anymore?
• 1:57:01
  They don't have the skills. So he's shit.
• 1:57:03
  He fires a rock, I think. Well, no, because Jamie comes in
• 1:57:06
  and stops him shooting because he's always there.
• 1:57:11
  So he stops him but then I think he does blow one up and This is
• 1:57:13
  why that going on two of us face.
• 1:57:18
  This is why they've now destroying the the museum again
• 1:57:22
  for the second time. It's it's it's a little bit this
• 1:57:25
  is where you see actually is the plot actually going anywhere?
• 1:57:28
  Because the Cliffhanger episode 2 is the Quarks shelling the
• 1:57:37
  museum with people inside, and the Cliffhanger episode 3 is the
• 1:57:39
  Quarks shelling the museum with people inside.
• 1:57:41
  So if your two cliffhangers are exactly the same, how far has
• 1:57:45
  your plot actually advanced in the meantime?
• 1:57:48
  Probably not a lot. Not a lot, but you know what we
• 1:57:50
  have had is we've had those bits where you know, they've got the
• 1:57:54
  the council around the the Daussians or.
• 1:57:56
  Oh, my word. Look at that.
• 1:57:58
  What's that? Look at that look.
• 1:57:59
  But from Ronald Allen into Kenneth Ives face, he's just
• 1:58:05
  he's a bulging and he's absolutely.
• 1:58:07
  I don't know though. You know, before Mark and I had
• 1:58:10
  our very first kiss, you know, I think we were looking at each
• 1:58:12
  other like that, kind of trying to restrain ourselves.
• 1:58:15
  There is a bit of tension between these two, right?
• 1:58:17
  Oh, they're an absolute power couple, aren't they?
• 1:58:18
  Yeah, I think, you know. And would you say they're the
• 1:58:22
  first power couple or? Gay power couple?
• 1:58:26
  Yeah, definitely. What about Clint and Penny in
• 1:58:31
  the Ice Warriors? Oh, actually there is, yeah.
• 1:58:34
  Do you know what there is? And something sizzling under the
• 1:58:37
  surface there, you know there's. I think a lot of people read
• 1:58:39
  that there's a, there's a. Relationship, he goes.
• 1:58:42
  Through with his cane, doesn't he?
• 1:58:43
  At one point, he gets so angry, Yeah.
• 1:58:45
  And it's it's it's a triangle between Penley Stort and Clint.
• 1:58:49
  I might suggest that that's a little more nuanced than this,
• 1:58:52
  though. Do you know?
• 1:58:53
  It's more sort of yes. I do not.
• 1:58:54
  I don't know though. Like you could probably make a
• 1:58:57
  reading. You know the power dynamics in a
• 1:59:00
  a toxic couple and this pair, how they're trying to best each
• 1:59:04
  other, how one's kind of in control.
• 1:59:08
  Yeah, and he's, I mean the scene that now was, again, he's
• 1:59:13
  tearing a strip off him, but he's not looking at him.
• 1:59:14
  He's not even looking at him in the face.
• 1:59:16
  And I think that's more an acting choice than a costume
• 1:59:20
  choice. He's literally just.
• 1:59:22
  Don't know costume choice? You are right though.
• 1:59:27
  But again, we've got a lovely set.
• 1:59:28
  You've got the star charts on the back wall where you've got
• 1:59:31
  the. Depth of it as well.
• 1:59:32
  You've got the quarter there and the Doctor and Zoe and then the
• 1:59:34
  chart behind them. Yeah, yeah, it's great.
• 1:59:39
  Oh, this is the bit, isn't it? The bit Yeah.
• 1:59:42
  This I thought was an episode 5. Must be in four, but where?
• 1:59:46
  That's right. He's threatening to talk to talk
• 1:59:49
  to the superiors, isn't it? Yeah, Well, fine.
• 1:59:52
  If you're not going to do what I want, I'm going to go over your
• 1:59:54
  head. Oh, look at his fear.
• 1:59:56
  But he's got his. It's the only time I see him a
• 1:59:58
  smile is when he's actually. Now he's looking at him because
• 2:00:02
  he wants to threaten him. He's the only time I see him
• 2:00:06
  smiling the whole thing is when he's actually.
• 2:00:10
  There's something a bit lizard like about that smile, isn't
• 2:00:13
  there, but it is. Yeah.
• 2:00:15
  Like a snake that's about to pounce.
• 2:00:18
  Oh, this is it. And you know what?
• 2:00:20
  All the music swells up in this scene as well.
• 2:00:23
  It's properly tense. The quarks torn between the two
• 2:00:27
  and the cork actually goes back. You know mate, you're the
• 2:00:29
  superior, so I'm going to listen to you well.
• 2:00:31
  Can I say something about the quarks right there?
• 2:00:33
  You might think I'm absolutely mad, but when you see one of
• 2:00:38
  them flailing about on the floor, or when you see him there
• 2:00:42
  between the power couple, I'm sure, which I feel empathy for
• 2:00:47
  that box. Now that's a skill.
• 2:00:49
  Do you know what to make me? Feel.
• 2:00:53
  Well, is it? You don't.
• 2:00:54
  Looking as a quark. But this is, you know, this is
• 2:00:56
  the skill of the good monsters. You don't feel anything for the
• 2:00:58
  Daleks when they blow up, other than satisfaction.
• 2:01:01
  But you know, you don't feel anything other than pity for,
• 2:01:03
  say, K1 robot or anything like that, you know?
• 2:01:07
  But it's it's it is possible to personify these monsters you
• 2:01:15
  know and to to give them like characteristics that you can
• 2:01:19
  feel for. Definitely.
• 2:01:21
  It takes a little work. And again, I don't think I was
• 2:01:23
  really seeing that before either.
• 2:01:26
  I'm feeling empathy for a walk or.
• 2:01:31
  How? How far you've come.
• 2:01:33
  What? And this is the profound effect
• 2:01:35
  you have on me. Honestly, I love that that set
• 2:01:39
  as well, made out of the hexagons.
• 2:01:41
  It's so clever because they keep blowing the shit out of it so
• 2:01:44
  more of it can get taken away. But it's a set that can be sort
• 2:01:47
  of dismantled a bit at a time. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:01:49
  And it's it's clever as well because it's a conscious design
• 2:01:51
  choice to make hexagonal bricks, so to say.
• 2:01:55
  You know, we we have, you know, rectangular bricks in our world.
• 2:01:59
  So we build houses out of rectangular bricks.
• 2:02:01
  In this one, they've built hexagonal bricks and built.
• 2:02:03
  It's just a bit spaces, what's underneath of that rubble.
• 2:02:06
  This is the the bunker. This is the the secret bunker.
• 2:02:11
  And what is it to escape away from sort of nuclear waste?
• 2:02:14
  Yeah, it's like the nuclear nuclear bunker.
• 2:02:16
  So they've they've managed to find find the way down here, but
• 2:02:21
  now they're trapped and the air is running out.
• 2:02:23
  This, Paul, it will set, though. It's just a ladder and a bit,
• 2:02:25
  but never mind, you know, we're in episode 4 and the money's a
• 2:02:27
  little bit tired, you know? Yeah, there's proper.
• 2:02:31
  Sweaty colour, isn't it? Let's talk about Jamie.
• 2:02:35
  OK. Because I think this is a really
• 2:02:38
  good episode for Jamie. What?
• 2:02:39
  Episode or story? Story Sorry, it's I think it's
• 2:02:43
  an absolutely fantastic. Is it because he gets to show
• 2:02:46
  him as a warrior with tactics and?
• 2:02:49
  It's it shows him and doing a bit more than what he usually
• 2:02:54
  does. I think, you know, Jamie is.
• 2:02:56
  Comic stick. Yeah, Jamie is very much sort of
• 2:02:59
  the the person that the plot happens to, You know, he's the
• 2:03:02
  one, you know, gets given a task because it suits his, you know,
• 2:03:07
  particular set of skills, whatever, for example, like
• 2:03:09
  blowing up quarks or whatnot. But and obviously we'll have the
• 2:03:13
  scene in episode 2 where he has to act stupid in the Doctors,
• 2:03:16
  like, just act stupid. Jamie, do you think you can do
• 2:03:19
  that? OK, you know, so.
• 2:03:22
  You've got a few times, you know.
• 2:03:24
  But there's there's two good moments here where Jamie's the
• 2:03:27
  one that actually it comes to the realisation of something.
• 2:03:30
  You know there's the bit at the end that we've discussed where
• 2:03:32
  this lava is coming in and he's like oh Doctor the, you know,
• 2:03:37
  we're going to get, oh we're going to have to go.
• 2:03:39
  But there's also the bit in the the shuttle where the Doctor has
• 2:03:41
  eaten these Jelly babies. And Jamie's like, well, actually
• 2:03:44
  we're going to land there and it's going to be full of you
• 2:03:46
  know dominate as in quarks and that really where we want to go
• 2:03:50
  which leads to them to the whole Oh my God, aren't and you know,
• 2:03:54
  pulling the the wiring out so that can crash the shuttle.
• 2:03:56
  So that's Jamie doing that. That's Jamie, you know shown
• 2:04:00
  some smarts for once I. Think in this entire episode he
• 2:04:04
  is trying to sort of outfox both the Dominators and the Course
• 2:04:08
  because the Doctor and Zoe are being held captive.
• 2:04:10
  So he's trying to find a way in. He's trying to use the resources
• 2:04:13
  they've got. Except, but you compare it to
• 2:04:16
  the rest of the season. He's not in The Invasion episode
• 2:04:21
  80. Him and Zoe, I think, just turn
• 2:04:24
  a wheel at the end of The Seeds of Death to change the weather,
• 2:04:27
  but they don't really do anything else.
• 2:04:29
  He's barely in the Space Pirates episode 6.
• 2:04:31
  Yeah, yeah, so. In terms of representing Jamie,
• 2:04:35
  this is. This is.
• 2:04:36
  This is really good. If you want to say, show me a
• 2:04:38
  really good episode of that shows highlights, Jamie, this is
• 2:04:42
  this is I. Say less so, Zoe.
• 2:04:45
  There are much better chances for Zoe later in the season.
• 2:04:48
  Well, again, I think there's there's really good bits for Zoe
• 2:04:50
  in here as well. There's probably, I think, like
• 2:04:53
  the obvious ones. The Crotons, where it's a lot
• 2:04:56
  more written with with Zoe, man, you know that.
• 2:05:00
  But you know what? This is?
• 2:05:01
  This. This characterizes Jamie as
• 2:05:02
  being smart. Yeah.
• 2:05:03
  Whereas the Crotons characterizes Jamie as a bit of
• 2:05:06
  a dunce. That's the point, is that he's
• 2:05:08
  starved. So he is literally he's Jamie.
• 2:05:11
  He's. Superfluous to the plot because
• 2:05:13
  we need clever people. Yeah, you know to to get the
• 2:05:17
  plot moving with getting the Crotons out of the bath and you
• 2:05:20
  know, then defeating them and at the end sort of thing.
• 2:05:24
  But this one we are the where he does go full on die hard later
• 2:05:30
  on with him and cuddly with the little grenade tubes, you know.
• 2:05:34
  Again, that's really playing with strengths, but so the story
• 2:05:36
  does tap into everything what we'd normally expect from Jamie,
• 2:05:40
  but it gives him that extra bit of actually, he's not just a
• 2:05:44
  some daft, daft Highlander, it's it's very lilaish, you know,
• 2:05:52
  with the, you know, people that wrote Lila, well wrote.
• 2:05:55
  Also, the professor will have fixed weapons in fixed position
• 2:05:58
  to guard the offences. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:06:01
  It's like it's instinct and tactics and you know, all those
• 2:06:05
  things that he would have had back in Culloden, yeah.
• 2:06:09
  But it's like intelligent. You get intelligence with
• 2:06:11
  leader, you know she's just because she hasn't been the
• 2:06:13
  school or anything doesn't mean she's not as as smart as anyone
• 2:06:17
  else in the room. Now, Jamie does have instincts,
• 2:06:19
  but I just feel like as the series went along, he's kind of
• 2:06:23
  played a bit contemporary, isn't he?
• 2:06:26
  He's not really. He's not really.
• 2:06:28
  I mean, it's, yeah, historical warrior anymore.
• 2:06:31
  It's, it always makes us not laugh, but it's it's funny that,
• 2:06:35
  you know, Katarina was written out after five episodes because
• 2:06:39
  they thought, Oh well, this doesn't work.
• 2:06:41
  We can't get this to work, we can't work, you know, a Trojan
• 2:06:44
  slave girl, you're travelling through space and whatnot.
• 2:06:47
  But then, you know, the next season, Jamie comes along, who's
• 2:06:51
  a Highlander from the 1700s. And actually that's not an
• 2:06:54
  issue. You know, Victoria comes along,
• 2:06:57
  that's not an issue. Leela comes on.
• 2:07:00
  That's not an issue. It's it's down to the rating.
• 2:07:02
  It's like if you're saying that you can't get this character at
• 2:07:06
  work, I'm sorry, that's not a fault of the character.
• 2:07:08
  That for me is a fault of your rating.
• 2:07:10
  That's why it surprises me, you know, that Moffett went out of
• 2:07:13
  the governess in series seven. I think that would have been
• 2:07:17
  really interesting. It would have been.
• 2:07:19
  I know, I know. It would have brought up
• 2:07:21
  challenges. It was especially in those
• 2:07:23
  stories. In series 7B.
• 2:07:24
  Johnny doesn't know it, Artist Cold War, things like that.
• 2:07:27
  But it would be interesting, you know, you watch like the
• 2:07:30
  underwater menace which is the first one after the Highlanders
• 2:07:32
  and how quickly it's dismissed that Jamie is, is come on board.
• 2:07:35
  You watch like 2 minutes I went how quickly Victoria, just to
• 2:07:38
  being on board. It's not an issue you know, even
• 2:07:41
  even Tegan. You know, Tegan goes from, you
• 2:07:45
  know, stumbling into the TARDIS. Horror at what she sees.
• 2:07:49
  In Lugopolis to to Castro, Valva, where all of a sudden
• 2:07:52
  she's down with regeneration, she's down with, yeah.
• 2:07:55
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's flying it in before to
• 2:07:57
  doomsday. Oh, and in Castro Valva.
• 2:08:00
  Yeah, exactly so. She's having a bit of a
• 2:08:02
  breakdown whilst doing it in both times but you know.
• 2:08:06
  That's all part of the fun. Hell of an acting choice.
• 2:08:10
  There you go. Look, he's saying to him we
• 2:08:14
  should attack the Quarks. Yeah.
• 2:08:18
  Yeah, go on. Jamie, do you know is episode 5
• 2:08:23
  of this Did Terrace Dix episode 5 and Show or was it Derek
• 2:08:27
  Sherwin? It was Derek Sherwin.
• 2:08:29
  So what happened? I.
• 2:08:29
  Do think you know the pace suddenly picks up incredibly in
• 2:08:33
  five. Well what happened was obviously
• 2:08:37
  Mervin Isman Henry Lincoln had their, you know five and six
• 2:08:42
  plotted out and whatnot and by writing it and and Derek Sherwin
• 2:08:45
  looked into said, look this isn't, this isn't happening.
• 2:08:48
  There's just not enough in here to to go for the six episodes
• 2:08:52
  rather than try. And he just said right, well,
• 2:08:54
  we'll cut it down to five, we'll give the extra episode of The
• 2:08:57
  Mind Robber and I'll just rewrite from what you've got,
• 2:09:02
  what you've given us. I'll just squish 5 and six
• 2:09:04
  together, essentially. And you know.
• 2:09:07
  I don't think that was. I don't think that was a
• 2:09:08
  terrible choice. I think that was a good choice
• 2:09:11
  because it does. I I remember when I last my
• 2:09:13
  watches through, I was like, oh, this has really picked up.
• 2:09:16
  Yeah, in the last episode. I think it wouldn't be a bad
• 2:09:19
  choice if the decision had been made earlier in the production.
• 2:09:23
  If that said, well, actually I'm going to turn three and four
• 2:09:26
  into one episode and have then like 5:00 and 6:00 or you know,
• 2:09:31
  do it a bit more Because what you do is you do have Episode 3
• 2:09:34
  where like I say, we're not 100% sure that the plots gone
• 2:09:38
  anywhere, but you know you then get the work Episode 5 where all
• 2:09:42
  of a sudden everything happens and you have this the sense
• 2:09:45
  where wouldn't you know, we've waited and we've waited, waited
• 2:09:48
  because we don't know what the plan is now.
• 2:09:49
  We know what the plan is, then we'll come up with a way to
• 2:09:51
  defeat it and we'll do that in about two minutes flat so.
• 2:09:56
  You could have done too. Quickly.
• 2:09:58
  If you had an extra episode, you could have had the sequence
• 2:10:00
  where the Doctor finally convinces the Dolceans to go on
• 2:10:04
  the attack, and then you could have had them all coming over
• 2:10:06
  the hill like Black Adder in their in their fabulous shower
• 2:10:11
  curtains going. It would be, you know, on the
• 2:10:14
  quarks wax world in Red Dwarf. I'm watching them all get gunned
• 2:10:19
  down. Oh gosh.
• 2:10:22
  That. Would be amazing.
• 2:10:25
  Oh, that's so funny, that episode.
• 2:10:27
  Poor Gandy. Beau Brummel, they're all there.
• 2:10:32
  Aren't they? Oh dear, Oh dear.
• 2:10:37
  Oh, look at this. All these.
• 2:10:38
  Explosions occur in the quarry around Jamie's feet.
• 2:10:42
  Oh, oh, can I just say it because this is the biggest
• 2:10:45
  boulder that you see shifted and it's clearly a big bit of jabber
• 2:10:48
  light going down there. It is, but there's some
• 2:10:50
  fantastic the heavy rock lifting acting going on in this story.
• 2:10:56
  Look at that actor with a quark. Line on his back on a stage.
• 2:11:00
  Quickie, don't. Look Quickie.
• 2:11:01
  Don't look, that's your little mate.
• 2:11:04
  Pretty soon there's only going to be one light left.
• 2:11:06
  Or do they all go out? Eventually, yeah.
• 2:11:08
  You. Know why he was pretending he
• 2:11:10
  just fell over on his side? Because he knew he wasn't going
• 2:11:12
  to end well. He's smart.
• 2:11:15
  Quickie, I'm telling you. Oh.
• 2:11:18
  Doctor, put his hands. Together.
• 2:11:19
  And when there's only one person who's headstrong enough to do
• 2:11:22
  all this, it's Jamie. OK?
• 2:11:24
  You had a question on the tweets.
• 2:11:29
  I did, but I just want to keep talking about this scene here
• 2:11:32
  because this is where the Doctor and and Zoe are talking about
• 2:11:38
  what powers the Dominators ship. So they're like all the
• 2:11:42
  Dominators have left them went off because the quark's been
• 2:11:44
  attacked and now we're left alone.
• 2:11:45
  So we're going around And so he's like, Oh well, it must draw
• 2:11:49
  it's power from it must gives a lot of techno bubble and the
• 2:11:52
  Doctor just stands and goes, yes, it must really must be very
• 2:11:55
  powerful And she's like, well, that's what I said and she
• 2:11:57
  realises that he's just teasing her, you know, And it's it's a
• 2:12:01
  lovely dynamic between the two. And that's what I like about
• 2:12:04
  this, this particular team is you have those, those dynamics.
• 2:12:08
  You have the Doctor and Jamie, who are just the best of
• 2:12:11
  friends. And it's the ultimate bromance.
• 2:12:14
  There's never been one like it again.
• 2:12:17
  I mean, you know, you talk about the the first power coupling,
• 2:12:19
  Doctor Who it is Patrick travelling obvious of Haynes
• 2:12:22
  amazingly. Well, do you know what I'm going
• 2:12:25
  to say? I think Smith and Arthur
• 2:12:27
  Darville, yeah, close. They come very close.
• 2:12:31
  Yeah, at least you get to kiss out Ruin, doesn't he?
• 2:12:33
  Oh. That's hot as hell.
• 2:12:35
  So I got. So you have that dynamic of the
• 2:12:38
  Doctor and Jamie, but then you have a completely different one
• 2:12:41
  with the Doctor and Zoe, because Zoe is.
• 2:12:43
  Bit combative, isn't it? Well, it's always a lot more
• 2:12:46
  equal in him to him in terms of intelligence.
• 2:12:48
  So he could have a different conversation.
• 2:12:50
  He couldn't have like a conversation about power units
• 2:12:52
  with with Jamie. If it was Jamie and off it was
• 2:12:56
  like the Doctor in Victoria in this scene.
• 2:12:59
  It would have to play out a lot differently.
• 2:13:00
  It would have to be the Doctor expositioning at, you know, the
• 2:13:05
  other companion, whereas you get the the exposition is sort of
• 2:13:09
  levelled out and it's backwards and forwards.
• 2:13:11
  And he just gets to be all chart.
• 2:13:12
  Bet Trout and loved it, didn't he?
• 2:13:14
  Oh great. That's what William Martin all
• 2:13:16
  needed, someone to come in, deal with all that techna Babble, and
• 2:13:19
  he could just come in at the end and go, well, yes, quite.
• 2:13:22
  Exactly. That would have, yeah.
• 2:13:24
  That would have been brilliant, wouldn't it?
• 2:13:26
  So. Frozen.
• 2:13:27
  What's occurring? I just saw the Doctor saying
• 2:13:29
  that there was sucking the energy.
• 2:13:31
  Is they are they basically going to leave the planet a dry out
• 2:13:34
  husk? So what the plan is, is they're
• 2:13:36
  going to, they don't know why they're drilling what the the
• 2:13:39
  end game for the the Dominators is.
• 2:13:41
  So they've kind of figured out that the Dominators run on
• 2:13:43
  radiation and that's why there's no radiation left on that
• 2:13:46
  island. It was massively reactive until
• 2:13:47
  they landed. It's all gone into that, their
• 2:13:49
  big battery. Yeah, it's charged quickly up.
• 2:13:53
  That's right, really quickly. So now the figure that's
• 2:13:55
  starting to figure out what's going on.
• 2:13:57
  But. Oh, here we go.
• 2:14:00
  Domini has just stormed into the council chamber.
• 2:14:03
  Yet without his appointment. Does he basically, Does he say
• 2:14:07
  that? I've already missed that line.
• 2:14:09
  Do you have an appointment? Yes.
• 2:14:13
  If you make an appointment, the correct procedure.
• 2:14:16
  You don't put that with none of that.
• 2:14:18
  And does he just basically just walks in and enslaves him,
• 2:14:20
  doesn't he? Really.
• 2:14:22
  I must protest, you useless bunch.
• 2:14:26
  Honestly. You defy me, Dominator?
• 2:14:30
  Dominator to storm Parliament. Now, you know, I think I'd do as
• 2:14:34
  any harm. Certainly wouldn't do any worse,
• 2:14:37
  would it? Oh, I don't know.
• 2:14:41
  I think Ronald Allen's enjoyed himself a bit again here.
• 2:14:43
  Absolutely. He's got, it's all in the eyes
• 2:14:45
  you know next he's got that really heavy make up on him but
• 2:14:48
  he's. Because your leader means
• 2:14:49
  nothing to me. The only thing that's important
• 2:14:52
  is the superior force of the dominators.
• 2:14:56
  Oh, it's like it's. What was it?
• 2:14:58
  What is it called? A Jackie, Jackie on the Zoom
• 2:15:03
  meeting, What was that? The count, you know, the Zoom
• 2:15:06
  Council meeting that went valuable?
• 2:15:09
  You are. Yes.
• 2:15:12
  Oh, that was brilliant, wasn't it?
• 2:15:13
  Yeah. Caller What was that pseudonym
• 2:15:15
  Jackie? I can't remember but she.
• 2:15:16
  Can't remember but. She went viral in a day she.
• 2:15:19
  Did and she was kicking about. This isn't in.
• 2:15:21
  Brian can't play in that character except except in this
• 2:15:25
  version the the angry councillor just.
• 2:15:30
  Is Jackie from the Council? You.
• 2:15:31
  Have no authority. Yeah.
• 2:15:33
  Jackie from the Council. Shall I destroy?
• 2:15:35
  Shall I take the minutes of the meeting?
• 2:15:39
  Yes. Honestly, there's anything in
• 2:15:42
  life that don't get better with a cork involved, you know?
• 2:15:48
  Oh dear who? Who directed this?
• 2:15:51
  It's. This is Morris Barry.
• 2:15:54
  Morris, Barry. Directed The Moon Base and Tomb
• 2:15:57
  of the Siren. And he gets slated for this as
• 2:16:00
  well. This is the only one.
• 2:16:01
  The other two, I mean, I will say the other two do have very
• 2:16:05
  memorable and impressive imagery.
• 2:16:07
  Assignments storming across the moon, coming out the tombs.
• 2:16:10
  Yeah, yeah. But I mean I think we need to to
• 2:16:14
  to highlight the direction. Yeah a little bit because the
• 2:16:17
  angles he's picking for the close-ups, yeah, he's got he's
• 2:16:20
  shooting Roger from below in close up and then he's shooting
• 2:16:23
  the director from slightly above.
• 2:16:25
  So you're getting that sense of, you know, one is towing above
• 2:16:28
  the other, you know that this, you know one is more superior
• 2:16:33
  than the other. That's really coming across
• 2:16:34
  well. He's he's like, you say there's
• 2:16:36
  quite a few tracking shots which have been impressive.
• 2:16:38
  And that scene we highlighted in episode 4 between Rago and
• 2:16:42
  Tobar, the suspense of that scene does not happen by
• 2:16:45
  accident. No, no, It happens because it's
• 2:16:48
  one, it's very well acted, but two is very well directed, yeah.
• 2:16:51
  Yeah, you know what? We'll have that scene where the
• 2:16:54
  they were arguing, but you heard Zoe, the Doctor and the clock in
• 2:16:58
  the background as well. So the the framing of his shots
• 2:17:00
  is. For the comedy to work in
• 2:17:02
  episode two, yeah, you have to film.
• 2:17:05
  That very comedy can go off a Cliff.
• 2:17:07
  We've talked about this before, and that's very funny.
• 2:17:11
  Yeah, I. Think Yeah, maybe.
• 2:17:12
  He's apparently he was a director of the old school and
• 2:17:15
  he wouldn't budget. That's what Fraser Heinz says.
• 2:17:18
  So if he marked out his sets, he would not budget.
• 2:17:22
  If he marked out where the actors were going to go and they
• 2:17:24
  wanted to improvise, he wouldn't have any of it.
• 2:17:27
  But remember, he's the one that brought Trouton into line.
• 2:17:30
  Trouton wanted to goof and clown his way through the Moon base
• 2:17:34
  and Morris Barry said I'm not having it.
• 2:17:37
  This script is serious. You take it seriously.
• 2:17:40
  And he did it. You know, he someone finally
• 2:17:42
  stood up to him. Yeah.
• 2:17:45
  Also, you know, as a side note, he did turn up as one of the
• 2:17:48
  attendants in Creature from the Pit.
• 2:17:51
  The one that didn't get thrown down the pit, Yeah, but hid
• 2:17:53
  himself away in his cow. He's very, very funny.
• 2:17:59
  Yeah. No, he's he's, I think he's
• 2:18:03
  underrated. I think it's easy to kind of
• 2:18:05
  dismiss him next to some of the others.
• 2:18:08
  Yeah, because we're getting a lot of a lot of good people
• 2:18:10
  coming out to see what we've got.
• 2:18:11
  Your favorite Dougie Canfield? But you've got Michael Ferguson,
• 2:18:16
  Derek Martinez, The ice. The ice.
• 2:18:19
  Juarez is extremely well directed.
• 2:18:21
  I thought absolutely. They've got that sequence where
• 2:18:23
  Victoria's been menaced for all that bloody fake snow.
• 2:18:26
  And it looks fantastic. It does.
• 2:18:31
  Here we go. Right.
• 2:18:31
  The Doctor's explaining the plot now.
• 2:18:33
  Yeah, so we're. Kind of done Magma at the core
• 2:18:36
  of the planet be radioactive. Yeah.
• 2:18:39
  So the the three of them, the three sort of scientists are
• 2:18:41
  putting together the the plot, you know, we've had sort of four
• 2:18:45
  episodes. We don't really know what
• 2:18:47
  they're doing to know the mystery starting to do.
• 2:18:50
  And it's a nice thing as well, because they're not trying to
• 2:18:54
  evade the planet, which is what aliens tend to do.
• 2:18:57
  They just want a resource. Even though mining is a bit of a
• 2:19:01
  cliche at this point in science fiction.
• 2:19:04
  Yeah, but but, so this is a 2 fold thing here.
• 2:19:08
  They don't stop them. One, the dolphins will be wiped
• 2:19:11
  out. What a shame.
• 2:19:12
  And two, this battle fleet will be able to tear through the
• 2:19:17
  universe dominating other planets.
• 2:19:20
  Dominating Willy nilly, yes. I mean, I don't know if the
• 2:19:23
  stakes have ever been this high. Oh, no, Balloon.
• 2:19:28
  Oh, he's got a Smokey back. I think that's Quickie that's
• 2:19:31
  done that. I hope not.
• 2:19:35
  I hope. He's still playing dead in the
• 2:19:36
  quarry. Oh, he was so cute, but but all
• 2:19:40
  he has done for the last two episodes is pick up polystyrene
• 2:19:44
  rocks. That's a classic game.
• 2:19:48
  Trail of the Time Lord Cliffhanger, that.
• 2:19:50
  Look, I think actually that's really it's it's a slow pan in
• 2:19:54
  on trout. Yeah, it's not right up his nose
• 2:19:56
  like Colin Baker. It's it's that same sort of
• 2:19:59
  thing, isn't it? You're like zoom in on close up
• 2:20:01
  on Doctor looking worried. But of course, pack of trout and
• 2:20:05
  can sell it because of what we talked about, the way how
• 2:20:08
  visually expressive he is. And not that Colin Baker was in,
• 2:20:16
  but. No, Colin Baking could be
• 2:20:18
  extremely expressive. What are you talking about?
• 2:20:21
  And that's just his outfit. OK, well OK, so Are you ready
• 2:20:25
  for one more installment of the Quickie Adventures?
• 2:20:29
  Before we do that, we have got a question that we said we're
• 2:20:31
  going to answer. Oh, go on.
• 2:20:33
  Which has come from friend of the podcast Joe Short.
• 2:20:37
  Joe, hello. Hello, who asks who would win in
• 2:20:41
  a fight between Quickie and Quark from DS9?
• 2:20:49
  Oh, Joe, I love you. They're.
• 2:20:52
  Both fucking absurd, aren't they?
• 2:20:56
  I think it will be caught from DS9.
• 2:20:58
  He will be out, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:20:59
  Because he's quite devious and he'd be able to Scrabble with
• 2:21:03
  logic circuits by talking at him a lot.
• 2:21:06
  Yeah, I think Quarks probably got a bit more manoeuvrability,
• 2:21:13
  so he's got that took out the way a little bit.
• 2:21:15
  Quickly shot him. Could you imagine the smell of
• 2:21:17
  that burnt latex as his face melted?
• 2:21:19
  Oh. It will be grim, but I think
• 2:21:20
  Quark would have one eye on the latinum.
• 2:21:23
  You'd be like, oh, what can I do?
• 2:21:24
  How can I strip this down for part and flog it?
• 2:21:28
  That's a great question. I really sorry, Ricky, What's
• 2:21:31
  that? What's that?
• 2:21:33
  Oh dear, Did you hear that? He said.
• 2:21:36
  All specimens have reached the point of collapse.
• 2:21:39
  Oh dear. I know.
• 2:21:40
  With four episodes into the Dominators, that's why.
• 2:21:43
  Quickie, honestly, did you have any more questions there?
• 2:21:46
  Nope, that was the only one. Oh.
• 2:21:47
  Man, people are letting us down. Mind you did leave it a bit
• 2:21:50
  late. We'd already done two episodes
• 2:21:52
  of the commentary by the time you put that out.
• 2:21:54
  Yeah. OK, well Quickie is here and
• 2:21:56
  he's just having a little burble in my ear right now.
• 2:22:00
  And Oh no, well, it must. Have been a great honour for you
• 2:22:03
  quickly, honestly. So he would like me to tell you
• 2:22:07
  that it was his great honour to be the representation of the
• 2:22:12
  Quark race at the 2nd Doctor's trial.
• 2:22:16
  Was that? Quickie.
• 2:22:17
  That was Quickie, yes, and he said he did a fabulous little
• 2:22:21
  turn. I don't know if you saw the clip
• 2:22:23
  a bit, sort of doing a little dance around the studio.
• 2:22:26
  It was this one big moment, really, He said.
• 2:22:28
  He weren't getting none of the close-ups in this thing.
• 2:22:30
  Lesson. So it had been the war games.
• 2:22:32
  He was having a great time, but it I don't know how much I can
• 2:22:36
  keep this guy going, you know? 1.
• 2:22:39
  More episode. He.
• 2:22:41
  Can do it. Go on, Fuck off, Quickie.
• 2:22:44
  Jesus. OK, let's, let's, oh, let's stay
• 2:22:48
  in. Don't worry.
• 2:22:50
  Shall we pop off into the climax of this thing then?
• 2:22:52
  I don't know why I thought the the end of the episode was the
• 2:22:55
  Doctor running with the bomb. That's the end of episode 45
• 2:22:59
  even. Oh, the end of episode 5 is the
• 2:23:04
  the explosion of the. Yeah, that's where it comes.
• 2:23:09
  What when he's running with the bomb?
• 2:23:10
  Yeah, in episode 5. Yeah, but I thought it was a
• 2:23:13
  cliffhanger. No, it's not, no.
• 2:23:15
  Oh, so I really haven't watched this very much, have I?
• 2:23:19
  OK, well then let's go and correct my poor memory
• 2:23:23
  immediately. Let's do that.
• 2:23:24
  See you in episode 5. Boom.
• 2:23:31
  Welcome back to A Hamster with a Blumping Knife, the Doctor Who
• 2:23:35
  Commentary podcast where I, Mr. Joe Ford with my dear, dear
• 2:23:40
  friend Fraser Gregory, are talking, I think, not give you
• 2:23:44
  permission to speak yet. Sorry.
• 2:23:47
  Episode five of the Dominators. Fraser, I have an immediate
• 2:23:53
  question for you. Is this the most explosive
• 2:23:58
  climax to a Doctor Who story? I mean, there is a lot of
• 2:24:03
  explosions, isn't there? There is.
• 2:24:06
  The whole planet starts blowing up.
• 2:24:08
  It does. I think it must be.
• 2:24:10
  I mean, it's that big enough for your Brigadier.
• 2:24:15
  Or will you stop it? Please.
• 2:24:17
  Well, do you know what? Are you going to have any flim
• 2:24:20
  flam? Let's go in and watch the thing.
• 2:24:22
  Let's go watch then, shall we? Episode 5 Here we go here.
• 2:24:26
  We go in 54321 play I mean. I'm not entirely Privy to the
• 2:24:36
  massive bust up between Sherwin, Hazeman and Lincoln, but this is
• 2:24:42
  probably the sort of the most contentious, creative episode of
• 2:24:47
  Doctor Who, isn't it? Yeah, it will be.
• 2:24:49
  It will be. So like I said, there was two
• 2:24:52
  bust UPS. There was the one over the fact
• 2:24:54
  that he had just sucked off two of their episodes and squished
• 2:24:59
  it, and one who wrote himself. That's why Norman Ashby is
• 2:25:02
  writing this, which is the it's the names of their father in
• 2:25:10
  laws. Put together.
• 2:25:12
  OK, well, I've got to say, there's a Norman Ashby, you
• 2:25:14
  know, there's left me a very kind review on iTunes.
• 2:25:19
  No, that's the only other thing, he wrote after this, thank you
• 2:25:22
  very much. So that was one argument.
• 2:25:26
  Yes. So and the other one was around
• 2:25:27
  the sort of the Quark, right, because the BBC had started
• 2:25:30
  licensing the Quarks out and they were appearing in all this
• 2:25:33
  media. You know, Quickie was burning
• 2:25:36
  his book and then when and he's been and got wind of it, they
• 2:25:40
  kind of went straight and said, look, you can't do that without
• 2:25:42
  us. And you know, it went high up
• 2:25:44
  the BBC and it was a fall that was both sides.
• 2:25:46
  It wasn't just like, you know, you've used our stuff without
• 2:25:49
  our permission. It was like, well, you know
• 2:25:51
  what, you think you're playing that going above my head and you
• 2:25:54
  know, having a go at me boss, or you think you've won here.
• 2:25:56
  I'm never going to use them again.
• 2:25:58
  Losers So it was. Which is a shame because they
• 2:26:02
  had the concept. I don't know if it was actually
• 2:26:04
  written the letter, the Mccrimmon, didn't they?
• 2:26:07
  Which was going to be a Jamie centric story where he was
• 2:26:10
  killed I believe, or at least written.
• 2:26:12
  Out. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:26:14
  So that you know. But if you look back with,
• 2:26:16
  they've done this, which is a classic.
• 2:26:17
  They've done. The web of.
• 2:26:20
  Fear, which is a classic, And you've also got the abdominal
• 2:26:23
  snowmen, so you know. Hang on, you forgot to say that
• 2:26:26
  was a classic. A classic Ish.
• 2:26:30
  Have you seen the animation? Not yet, no it.
• 2:26:32
  Comes alive in unexpected. Ways do you know?
• 2:26:35
  It's on me Christmas list so hopefully I'll get that.
• 2:26:38
  They've managed to correct many of the racial errors that occur
• 2:26:44
  in the. There's a bit troubling at
• 2:26:46
  points, isn't it so? I actually think they're a
• 2:26:49
  little underrated because I thought you're right, I think
• 2:26:52
  the Dominators and the Abominable Snowmen people don't
• 2:26:55
  really focus on very much And because it's yetis in the
• 2:26:57
  underground, the web of fear, I actually think the web of fear
• 2:27:01
  is salvage by some fantastic direction.
• 2:27:05
  Yeah. Whereas there's some decent
• 2:27:07
  characterisation in the Abominable Snowmen and as we've
• 2:27:10
  discussed, there's far more going on here than we've ever
• 2:27:12
  given it credit for. Absolutely.
• 2:27:13
  And I think you know, without that falling out, you've got the
• 2:27:17
  next or the first, the original Bristol boys, you know, you've
• 2:27:21
  got a team of writers who. You know, were they from
• 2:27:24
  Bristol? The words but.
• 2:27:26
  Oh. You know, it's that sort of that
• 2:27:28
  sort of style, you know, of Bob Big and Dave Martin, who are
• 2:27:31
  going to be a safe pair of hands where you're going at the 70s.
• 2:27:34
  You can go, right, Who am I giving me scripts to?
• 2:27:37
  We'll get Lincoln and here'sment to do one because I know that
• 2:27:39
  they're going to give us something really good.
• 2:27:41
  They're going to give us, you know, a solid, dependable script
• 2:27:47
  that's within budget, that's realisable, you know, but it's
• 2:27:49
  also probably going to give us, you know, another excellent
• 2:27:54
  monster, you know, so you could see them running into the 70s,
• 2:27:58
  if, well, not the 80s, because GNT would have come and put the
• 2:28:02
  stock to that. But certainly they would have
• 2:28:03
  had a lot more opportunities to to write for the show, I think,
• 2:28:07
  and leave a much stronger legacy.
• 2:28:10
  You know, what they've left us with is brilliant.
• 2:28:13
  They could have. We could have had so much more
• 2:28:15
  from them as well. People don't generally think
• 2:28:17
  very much of the pairings. They're like Pip and Jane Baker,
• 2:28:21
  Bob Baker, Dave Martin, this pair.
• 2:28:25
  Yeah, it's, it's, it's funny, but I don't see why.
• 2:28:30
  Why not? I mean, you know, Pip and Jane
• 2:28:32
  or oh. Pip and Jane.
• 2:28:36
  It's man oh man, the enjoyment. That up here have given.
• 2:28:39
  Me over? Not that sort of enjoyment.
• 2:28:43
  Jesus Christ. That is a threesome I'm not
• 2:28:46
  jumping into. No.
• 2:28:47
  But you know what? The scripts.
• 2:28:49
  Are, yeah. Word.
• 2:28:50
  I mean they are, they are the so you have here's Man and Lincoln
• 2:28:54
  in the 60s, you have the Bristol Boys in the 70s.
• 2:28:58
  You then go in the 80s with, you know Pip and Jane and there's
• 2:29:01
  very much of A of a fashion, you know, sort of so very you unique
• 2:29:10
  sort of writers, you know, You know, you're getting a pippin
• 2:29:14
  Jane story when you watch it, you know what it is you see.
• 2:29:19
  I don't mean this disparagingly reliable, reliable.
• 2:29:22
  No, no, absolutely. Hands.
• 2:29:24
  You get like I say you they are. You.
• 2:29:27
  Uniquely identifiable as scripts from by Pippin Jane Baker.
• 2:29:31
  They are easily filmable. They are, like you say, ones
• 2:29:37
  that you don't need to worry about.
• 2:29:38
  There's ones like as a script edit that you would go right.
• 2:29:41
  They've written that. Let's have a quick look at it.
• 2:29:43
  I don't need to change much about this.
• 2:29:45
  Awesome. I can let them crack on.
• 2:29:47
  I'll send them off for another draft while I really focus on
• 2:29:50
  something like I don't delta in the Bannerman or.
• 2:29:52
  Bob. Baker, Dave, My.
• 2:29:54
  And it was more a case of, Oh my God, how the hell are we going
• 2:29:57
  to do this? To start with, but you know the,
• 2:30:00
  you know the then. Fraser, I watched The Invisible
• 2:30:03
  Enemy this week. All right, it is ambitious.
• 2:30:08
  Yeah, and it's OK We need a giant prawn also.
• 2:30:12
  But you know, when you think of where they started off with the
• 2:30:15
  giant flame in Skull Land and in Hyde Park, you know, they learn.
• 2:30:21
  They learn what they can and can't write and what they should
• 2:30:24
  and shouldn't write very quick, very early on.
• 2:30:26
  And they'd learn what, what they can get away with and how far
• 2:30:31
  they can kind of push what's doable.
• 2:30:34
  And they do. They do push.
• 2:30:35
  They're not like when you say safe and reliable, they're safe
• 2:30:38
  and reliable in as much as you know you're going to get some
• 2:30:41
  equality from them. They're not safe and reliable.
• 2:30:42
  As much as I know that. I can just take my eyes off
• 2:30:45
  that. It's going to come in and it's
• 2:30:46
  going to be, oh God, right, what we're doing now, how we're going
• 2:30:51
  to realise this. You know, things like, you know,
• 2:30:53
  the three Doctors where it's like, oh, tonight you might have
• 2:30:55
  a universe and I need. To see oh, we'll just.
• 2:30:59
  We'll cut out a door of a laboratory.
• 2:31:01
  And put it. Yeah, you know what?
• 2:31:04
  Even when even when you know the funniest joke about Bob, Jake
• 2:31:07
  and Dave Martin is when they went right, fine, We're being
• 2:31:10
  too ambitious. We've given you the invisible
• 2:31:12
  enemy script. We're going to write Underworld
• 2:31:14
  and we're going to set it in a load of caves because that's
• 2:31:16
  something a Doctor Who can do well.
• 2:31:18
  Oh dear. Yes.
• 2:31:22
  But I do think as well, you know, I feel all three of those
• 2:31:24
  pairings are they're aware that they're right for kids as well.
• 2:31:31
  I don't think that's a bad thing.
• 2:31:32
  I just saw a sequence there where Jamie was tying a bit of
• 2:31:36
  fabric around the corks legs to trip him up.
• 2:31:38
  Now that is not being geared at adults, I'm telling you.
• 2:31:42
  No and. I I I do think that is something
• 2:31:48
  that should always be there in the back of your mind is that
• 2:31:52
  you don't write it specifically for kids.
• 2:31:55
  Be aware that they're watching. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 2:32:00
  I mean it's it's I think it's where Hinchcliff and Holmes kind
• 2:32:04
  of fell down at times was was forgetting you know you know we.
• 2:32:08
  Just whispered that Mary mate House might have.
• 2:32:10
  Had a bunch of times that there were.
• 2:32:12
  Well, I would probably add off it to that list as well
• 2:32:15
  occasionally. Occasionally, yes, you know that
• 2:32:18
  it is, it is for kids. But at the same time, you know,
• 2:32:20
  let's not underestimate what kids can and can't, you know,
• 2:32:24
  get away with what we can and can't, you know, show kids.
• 2:32:29
  Because when you'd make it too much for the kids and go and go
• 2:32:33
  the other way and it'd be like really simplistic and you
• 2:32:35
  actually will. I think there's a few examples
• 2:32:38
  of that as well, what's occurring in the Dominator's
• 2:32:42
  phrases? So.
• 2:32:44
  The. Doctor And so we've escaped from
• 2:32:46
  the Dominator ship. They've figured out the plan.
• 2:32:49
  The Dominators are drilling holes.
• 2:32:52
  What they're going to do is going to drink a big shaft.
• 2:32:55
  They've obviously, you know, got the VHS of the Dalek, Master
• 2:32:59
  Dalek, Invasion of Earth out because they're going to drop a
• 2:33:01
  bomb down the shaft. It's going to explode and the
• 2:33:05
  the planet the sun is. Going to.
• 2:33:07
  Crack like an egg and turn into a big mess of magma.
• 2:33:10
  But that's going to be radioactive because they're
• 2:33:11
  going to drop the big radioactive bomb in it.
• 2:33:13
  I think we think that's not going to happen.
• 2:33:15
  You know, like we're not going to those volcanoes aren't going
• 2:33:18
  to erupt. Yeah, yeah, but.
• 2:33:20
  But again, who comes up with the idea of how to stop them?
• 2:33:24
  Was it, Jamie? It's.
• 2:33:25
  Jamie, Jamie says. Well, why don't just catch the
• 2:33:27
  bomb on the way down do? You know what?
• 2:33:30
  I still think some of this is being written as comedy.
• 2:33:32
  You know the female Dolce in there when anyway they've
• 2:33:37
  decided that we're unsuitable for slave labour, so they're all
• 2:33:40
  going to leave us here alone when they go and Jeremy goes,
• 2:33:43
  no, they've actually said that you're going to die along with
• 2:33:46
  the planet. There's no way that I've been.
• 2:33:49
  Written as a joke. Oh, here we go.
• 2:33:52
  There's a doctor doing a bit of techno Babble now.
• 2:33:55
  Yeah, so the doctor's explaining the plot now with these chalk.
• 2:34:00
  Oh, that's very nice. You know, again, for the kids,
• 2:34:04
  they feel like they're at school.
• 2:34:07
  Ah, OK. Firing rockets through the magma
• 2:34:11
  into the molten core. Oh, to release what?
• 2:34:13
  This great gash of energy? Yeah.
• 2:34:15
  And then? Suck it all up and then tow the
• 2:34:17
  fleet. Yeah.
• 2:34:18
  So the the idea is it's just going to be sort of like the
• 2:34:21
  service station for the Dominator fleet that can just
• 2:34:23
  swoop in, refuel on, radiation, swoop off again.
• 2:34:27
  What was stopping them doing that in episode 2?
• 2:34:29
  It's what they've been doing, they've been building up to it.
• 2:34:32
  So they've been drilling. They've been all the arguments
• 2:34:36
  between Largo and Toolbar is that because the quarks as we've
• 2:34:41
  seen with Quickie who's once again on charge, is that you
• 2:34:45
  know the the batteries run flat on a Quark quite quickly.
• 2:34:48
  So they need to save the energy for doing the drilling and all
• 2:34:51
  this going off and shooting the the workforce is a waste of
• 2:34:56
  precious resource. So they need to all the time
• 2:34:59
  they've been doing this drilling so that they can, you know do
• 2:35:04
  this plan, but we just don't know what the plan is.
• 2:35:06
  We've never known what the plan is up until up until now.
• 2:35:09
  But also as well they want to because they've got, they've all
• 2:35:11
  spent a bit of time here drilling down, blah, blah, blah.
• 2:35:14
  They want to test the dolphins to see actually, are they going
• 2:35:17
  to be a threat to us? Yeah, test the doctor and then
• 2:35:19
  they go to the city. They've tested the dolphins.
• 2:35:22
  They've tested them to say, well actually, are these going to be
• 2:35:24
  a, you know, a threat? Can we just ignore them and
• 2:35:27
  crack on with life? Yes, we can, because they are
• 2:35:29
  hippies, essentially. Well, no.
• 2:35:30
  They're looking for a double whammy, aren't they?
• 2:35:31
  They want them as slaves. If they well, again, they've
• 2:35:34
  been testing them, they've been getting them to move all these
• 2:35:36
  rocks around and said, well actually if they're not a threat
• 2:35:41
  up, can we be useful? Could we like enslave this
• 2:35:43
  planet and use them as a slave workforce?
• 2:35:45
  No, actually, they're a little bit too feeble.
• 2:35:47
  Bloody hippies. So.
• 2:35:51
  Yeah, good for nothing. Good for nothing, hippies.
• 2:35:54
  You know. All we're going to do is leave
• 2:35:56
  them to kind of blow up so. Did you see Trout, the space
• 2:35:59
  there, when he's like just a little bit of chemistry.
• 2:36:02
  You know, we could, we could they blow them up.
• 2:36:06
  So he's going to he. Does that is.
• 2:36:10
  Definitely what I think of with the 2nd Doctor.
• 2:36:12
  Yeah. Little fucking anarchist
• 2:36:15
  destroying things. He will go.
• 2:36:17
  He has the first use of the the Sonic screwdriver for doing
• 2:36:19
  something other than being a screwdriver, so he's using it to
• 2:36:23
  cut through, cut through the wall.
• 2:36:26
  That's another good physical effect.
• 2:36:28
  Look at that. Yeah, I don't think it looks as
• 2:36:30
  good when the Daleks cut through a wall.
• 2:36:32
  Well, I love the car Daleks cutting through a wall though.
• 2:36:35
  That looks amazing. They got the flames going there
• 2:36:37
  and everything. You know, I mean that's that's a
• 2:36:39
  classic effect that the Daleks cutting through.
• 2:36:41
  Daleks don't cut through enough things.
• 2:36:43
  Anyone in the new series for me? They did have that lovely moment
• 2:36:46
  with Linda with Hawaii, didn't they?
• 2:36:47
  Did, Yes. That's a marvelous.
• 2:36:49
  Yeah, and that was really good. But you know, you just don't see
• 2:36:51
  Daleks cut through things enough.
• 2:36:54
  Honestly, I've mentioned Linda with a wire a lot of this
• 2:36:56
  lately. You know, she must be a very
• 2:36:57
  memorable character. I'm gladly quick.
• 2:37:02
  He's away because I feel as if the coops are going to have a
• 2:37:04
  terrible time soon. Well, yes, Jamie and Curly are
• 2:37:08
  going to go full, full die hard now.
• 2:37:13
  Jamie I can see in it. Half a cock less so it's got.
• 2:37:18
  The hairline for it. You got Zoe and the Doctor doing
• 2:37:21
  a bit of science here, but you know.
• 2:37:23
  Absolutely. But they're making bombs.
• 2:37:25
  Yeah, always a terror. This is I love this, but you all
• 2:37:31
  you've got to do is put this tablet in counter 10 and then
• 2:37:34
  it's going to explode and Zoe sitting there going 987654.
• 2:37:44
  You've got to do it, otherwise you'll blow up as well.
• 2:37:50
  He's. Jumping around the scene.
• 2:37:53
  Yeah, he's loving it. Oh yeah.
• 2:37:56
  Going back to what we said the first episode, this is what you
• 2:37:58
  miss to not having these episodes.
• 2:37:59
  You miss bits like that, don't you?
• 2:38:01
  Because how would you ever animate that?
• 2:38:03
  How would you ever you know? How would you even know to
• 2:38:06
  animate that even if you wanted? This to fucking tickle, wouldn't
• 2:38:08
  he? With enormous arms, or that
• 2:38:10
  bizarre animation they had in the Web of Fear when they look
• 2:38:12
  like balloon people. Oh.
• 2:38:14
  Again, what was that all about? Well, again, it's it's it's what
• 2:38:17
  was said about, you know, the CSO and Underworld.
• 2:38:20
  You know, it's it's it's a new way of doing stuff, so.
• 2:38:24
  Can I just say our fans to work? That might be Quickie on the
• 2:38:26
  right of that bit of equipment there, and all he's doing is
• 2:38:29
  sort of wobbling and his arms are moving about really
• 2:38:32
  excitedly. God bless him.
• 2:38:36
  Oh no. Oh, I don't want to watch this.
• 2:38:38
  Not Quark assassinations. Oh.
• 2:38:41
  Oh. Oh no.
• 2:38:42
  Oh no. Quickies.
• 2:38:44
  Quickies drunk. Oh, man down.
• 2:38:47
  Man down. And they all sort of go.
• 2:38:50
  Towards him, is it to say, you know?
• 2:38:52
  Take him off the battlefield. Aren't you all right, mate?
• 2:38:55
  Aren't you all right, mate? Don't you need a hand?
• 2:38:58
  Oh. Quickie, get out of there.
• 2:39:01
  Fucker me. That one literally blew into
• 2:39:03
  pieces. 3 for one. Oh, I could see actually, you
• 2:39:07
  know, that sort of packaging you get that polystyrene.
• 2:39:10
  Yeah, I think he was made out of that.
• 2:39:13
  But yeah, that he was the cheaper one.
• 2:39:15
  This is really good because you know, this is the point where
• 2:39:18
  you know Toba's been right all along.
• 2:39:20
  Toba's been like, oh, we need to, you know, these are
• 2:39:23
  destroying quarks. They are, you know, causing
• 2:39:25
  innocence. We need to exterminate them for
• 2:39:28
  want of a better word. And.
• 2:39:29
  Come in and say yeah, you can do it.
• 2:39:31
  Off you go. Well, I know he's learnt his
• 2:39:33
  lesson now. He's like all the long he's been
• 2:39:36
  like we should destroy them, we should destroy them.
• 2:39:38
  And Rock has been Nope, save the energy.
• 2:39:40
  And now it's like it's going to come back and bite them on the
• 2:39:42
  arse. But that is at.
• 2:39:44
  That .2 of us learnt his lesson. So like two of us now like.
• 2:39:47
  Oh, I see what you're. Saying now he's like, oh, should
• 2:39:49
  I know I'm going to stay in drill, I'm going to stay in
• 2:39:51
  drill. When again, you know if they'd
• 2:39:53
  actually listened to Toba and then just wiped everyone out as
• 2:39:57
  soon as they saw them. The band would literally.
• 2:39:59
  The band would work, yeah. Do you know what?
• 2:40:02
  The bit where you know he looks sort of downcast every time he
• 2:40:05
  goes, you know, I want to kill them and it's like, no, you
• 2:40:07
  won't kill them, man, that is pure like sitcom active, isn't
• 2:40:12
  it? Where he's just like.
• 2:40:18
  Oh, my word. Oh.
• 2:40:21
  I believe a new question has just materialized, you know.
• 2:40:24
  Yeah, it has. Go on, hit me.
• 2:40:27
  Would the. Story be better If it had a
• 2:40:29
  musical score, could Dudley Simpson have made it better?
• 2:40:34
  Well. I mean, we have spent five
• 2:40:36
  episodes questioning whether this could be better at all.
• 2:40:38
  We think it's marvellous. Yeah, I I really like the sort
• 2:40:42
  of ambient music that plays in this.
• 2:40:44
  It's the same music that's in the web Planet, isn't it?
• 2:40:47
  It's is it? I think it is.
• 2:40:49
  You know I. Think I think it's just sort of
• 2:40:51
  like stop music, isn't it? But it's it is it's it's
• 2:40:53
  atmospheric. It's not, you know, Dudley
• 2:40:55
  Simpson would come in and give you a score, wouldn't he Would
• 2:40:57
  give you something that you knew was.
• 2:41:00
  That that beer? No, we keep talking about that
• 2:41:02
  scene between Raga and Tober in episode 4.
• 2:41:04
  There's this sort of like, confluence of weird electronic
• 2:41:08
  sounds that plays over that with a sort of heartbeat going as
• 2:41:12
  well. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:41:13
  And I don't know if our score would be as dramatic.
• 2:41:16
  I think maybe he's not Dudley Simpson.
• 2:41:18
  Maybe he's like a Tristam Carey sort of soundscape would work.
• 2:41:22
  It would accentuate the weirdness a bit.
• 2:41:25
  More that might work, I think. You know, even at the stage in
• 2:41:27
  Dudley's career, he's he has been a bit more experimental.
• 2:41:30
  He's not just like Oboe of the week that he gets.
• 2:41:33
  His scores in season six are terrific, though, Even even like
• 2:41:38
  the Space Pirates. I think the Ice Warriors is the
• 2:41:41
  one again coming back. The Ice Warriors is.
• 2:41:42
  The one. You've just got the sort of
• 2:41:52
  there, but it's that's, you know, that sort of thing.
• 2:41:55
  I don't think is going to add anything to this this story, but
• 2:41:59
  like you say, that's just sort of ambient background, more like
• 2:42:03
  a soundscape would. Would work very well I think.
• 2:42:06
  Oh, Jim Allenby's come up with a question.
• 2:42:07
  I want to ask you this. One go on then.
• 2:42:09
  When Rusty Davis does the long-awaited TV sequel to this
• 2:42:13
  story, should it be called The Quark in Space And or, Sorry,
• 2:42:18
  The Quark in Space? Because you have to say it that
• 2:42:20
  way for the joke to work? And is the time right for these
• 2:42:24
  little chaps to finally break free of their dominator rulers?
• 2:42:29
  Well, I'm very sorry to disappoint Jim Allenby, but we
• 2:42:32
  know that the quarks are coming back.
• 2:42:33
  They're going to be back on Sunday in The Power of the
• 2:42:36
  Doctor. You know that as a fact.
• 2:42:40
  Well, everything we've seen in the trailer is is going to
• 2:42:42
  happen in the 1st 20 minutes or so, and then the rest of the
• 2:42:44
  episode is just, you know, the Doctor in the farm fighting the
• 2:42:47
  Quarks until the last 10 minutes regeneration.
• 2:42:51
  I heard the Lost on Gallifrey Boys stroking your ego over
• 2:42:54
  these comments. You know I.
• 2:42:57
  Haven't heard that I haven't. Heard that they go, basically,
• 2:43:00
  Oh my God, Fraser's a Judas. He can stay.
• 2:43:05
  We know that after that we'll have the 60th Anniversary
• 2:43:09
  special, which is going to be The Day of the Quarks featuring
• 2:43:12
  David Tennant. And then we know that he got was
• 2:43:15
  first episode will be the power of the Quarks.
• 2:43:19
  So. It's going to be amazing and our
• 2:43:22
  little companion is going to be getting work for the next couple
• 2:43:24
  of years. Absolutely, you know.
• 2:43:26
  He's on paying his way instead of draining my electricity.
• 2:43:29
  He just needs to make sure that that that Nick Briggs doesn't
• 2:43:31
  get in and steal a voice, needs to make sure he gets his voice
• 2:43:36
  in there. Oh no.
• 2:43:38
  Come on, let's give Briggs his props.
• 2:43:39
  He do a great quark. He get it accurate, He does do
• 2:43:42
  it well. It would be interesting, I'll
• 2:43:44
  give him that. Do you know what?
• 2:43:46
  There's a moment there between Jamie and Carly where he's like,
• 2:43:48
  leave me. It's like a war.
• 2:43:50
  Film. Now you know Carly's the
• 2:43:54
  wounded, heroic soldier. Bless him.
• 2:43:57
  He's had a terrible time in this, you know, cajoled,
• 2:44:00
  bullied, enslaved fires. He's coming out on top and I
• 2:44:05
  think it's. I beg your pardon?
• 2:44:07
  You were to stop it, but you know it's it's a good good
• 2:44:15
  example for those bold and middle-aged men that you can't
• 2:44:19
  be a hero. You don't have to be young and
• 2:44:23
  young and her St. like Fraser Hines you.
• 2:44:25
  Can be a hero like Arthur Cox. Oh, you, you and me are middle
• 2:44:30
  Asian. I know one of us is bolding.
• 2:44:32
  No. You got fight out there going on
• 2:44:34
  there, honestly. Yeah.
• 2:44:37
  Thank you. You're.
• 2:44:38
  Welcome. We better stop your message just
• 2:44:41
  over there. What's going on?
• 2:44:46
  Oh, it's going to oh phrase. It's going to insert the seed
• 2:44:48
  device. Stop it.
• 2:44:52
  Oh my God, that's the. I've never heard that one
• 2:44:54
  before. Jesus, have you ever done that?
• 2:44:56
  Before. No, I've not inserted a seed
• 2:44:58
  device, now I've. Done it a few times.
• 2:45:04
  Hi, Lucy. Thanks to the Break.
• 2:45:06
  Lucy. Yeah.
• 2:45:07
  And you're here now, so I'll just say stop it, Fraser, all
• 2:45:10
  right. Oh, this is it.
• 2:45:13
  This is it. He's got.
• 2:45:14
  So what is it? It's it's a this is the bomb.
• 2:45:17
  So we're going to drop into the core.
• 2:45:19
  So they've got 5 shafts, They've got the four rocket shafts.
• 2:45:24
  They're going to fire rockets down those ones, which is going
• 2:45:26
  to blow the crust of the planet and, you know, turn it into
• 2:45:30
  like. Molten Stew.
• 2:45:32
  Yeah. And then they've got the seed
• 2:45:34
  device, which is the one that's going to turn the all the
• 2:45:37
  volcanoes radioactive and give them the.
• 2:45:39
  Into this incredible source, Yes, of energy, Unimaginable
• 2:45:43
  power. Unimaginable power.
• 2:45:47
  So marvelous. So what they've done is they've
• 2:45:50
  got tunneled a shaft across to catch the the seed device as it
• 2:45:56
  falls and now the doctor is going to go and.
• 2:46:00
  That's dark invasion of Earth. Is has our good friend Simon
• 2:46:04
  Hart always tells us there's no new stories.
• 2:46:07
  I know why they've been cherry picking from the first two Dalek
• 2:46:09
  stories in this, haven't they just, Oh my God, this is
• 2:46:13
  hilarious. And they're like, right, we're
• 2:46:15
  off and they're going to blow up and they don't realize.
• 2:46:18
  The bomb is literally. Inside the.
• 2:46:21
  Spaceship. There's Patrick Troughton.
• 2:46:22
  Clearly Patrick Troughton. Clearly no one else.
• 2:46:26
  Oh, it's so marvellous. I mean, I mean, I've been
• 2:46:29
  pointing out the comedy throughout this.
• 2:46:31
  Look at this. He's coming up beyond that walk
• 2:46:33
  and rolling the bomb inside. Yeah, because you know, he is a
• 2:46:36
  comedy actor as Patrick Trout. Me will, you know, get as much
• 2:46:42
  entertainment and laugh out of what he's doing as possible and
• 2:46:45
  then that is that he's stuck in the door.
• 2:46:48
  He. Just literally.
• 2:46:49
  Claps his hands like. You know he works everything for
• 2:46:54
  as much as botany. Again, that's why it works.
• 2:46:56
  That's why the Seas season works as well.
• 2:46:59
  It's because those three are having so much fun all the time,
• 2:47:03
  even when you know they. Remind me of they remind me of
• 2:47:06
  just kids having adventures. You know, they, I feel like
• 2:47:10
  they've got the emotional intelligence of kids as well.
• 2:47:12
  They're like they're very reactive.
• 2:47:15
  That's a nice model shot of the ship taken off and the the legs
• 2:47:18
  going back up into it. Oh dear.
• 2:47:24
  Oh, he's so happy. Look.
• 2:47:27
  I can't believe he got stuck in that door.
• 2:47:29
  I can't believe they went there. Imagine if the ship started
• 2:47:33
  taking off as well. It'll bugger it.
• 2:47:37
  Oh dear, Oh dear. So this is it.
• 2:47:39
  We don't actually go back to the dociers at all do.
• 2:47:42
  We no, no, we're done now. We've kind of, you know, done
• 2:47:45
  their bit and. And this is the funniest bit of
• 2:47:47
  all. Stop the countdown.
• 2:47:51
  Boom. It's quite right, Jimmy.
• 2:47:56
  The planets if I But we're not Doctor.
• 2:47:59
  It's. Do you know what?
• 2:48:00
  It is A satisfying conclusion, isn't it?
• 2:48:04
  It really is. It uses all the elements they
• 2:48:07
  were going to do to do terrible things to this planet to defeat
• 2:48:10
  them. It's more of a cliffhanger than
• 2:48:12
  I thought as well because it's like it ends more on more of a
• 2:48:16
  cliffhanger because it's like, oh, it's going to be a localized
• 2:48:18
  explosion, a bit of volcano. He's like and that's where it
• 2:48:21
  cuts. So you you are going to be like,
• 2:48:23
  OK, what happens next week then? Is this the 6th episode of the
• 2:48:26
  Dominators or the first episode of?
• 2:48:28
  The mind rubber which? What's very interesting is that
• 2:48:34
  how that molten lava, which we just saw as stock footage
• 2:48:37
  looking very like molten lava, becomes this sort of watered
• 2:48:42
  down marshmallows at the beginning of the mind rubber.
• 2:48:46
  Is it the full machine? Is the full machine.
• 2:48:48
  I believe it might be. Yeah, I mean, we've got a bit
• 2:48:50
  leftover from from Fury the Deep.
• 2:48:53
  Do you want a bit? Oh, yeah.
• 2:48:55
  Come on, come on. Give us a bucket or two.
• 2:48:57
  Awesome, mate. What we're going to do with this
• 2:48:59
  job lot. Well, I'll tell you what, we've
• 2:49:01
  got a script coming up. Oh, you're not going?
• 2:49:06
  To see the depths. On its way, yeah.
• 2:49:08
  I'm sorry folks, we've got to retire the machine.
• 2:49:11
  Oh mate, I've just stocked up. We're going to have to use the
• 2:49:15
  lot. I will try and behave, but there
• 2:49:19
  will be white stuff all over the set.
• 2:49:21
  I can't promise. When we do see to death, I'm
• 2:49:23
  going to be behave too much. OK.
• 2:49:27
  OK. Well look, would you do me a
• 2:49:29
  favour please? And quick.
• 2:49:32
  He's here back now. You can hear him of course.
• 2:49:35
  I mean you can't. It'll be edited in laser, but
• 2:49:38
  for all intents and purposes you can in fact hear him.
• 2:49:41
  So would you please ask him now about and his greatest adventure
• 2:49:46
  of all before land? This is directly before he went
• 2:49:50
  to Portobello Road and I'll pick him up.
• 2:49:53
  So, Quickie, what was your greatest adventure of all?
• 2:49:57
  OK. Oh, no, Gallifrey.
• 2:50:02
  Really. Not Gallifrey.
• 2:50:05
  You're kidding me. Well, OK.
• 2:50:08
  Are you ready for? This.
• 2:50:09
  I'm ready for this. Yeah, he.
• 2:50:10
  Spent a little time on Gallifrey.
• 2:50:12
  Yeah, as a clean up robot. This was the work he did after a
• 2:50:17
  failed invasion of the planet. By all accounts, the Quarks
• 2:50:21
  flooded the capital and were fitted with bombs, but
• 2:50:26
  unfortunately they failed to go off.
• 2:50:31
  I mean, that sounds like a terribly exciting story.
• 2:50:32
  The invasion of time. Move over.
• 2:50:34
  Oh, come on, imagine the Quarks filling the Panopticon.
• 2:50:37
  That would. Be amazing.
• 2:50:38
  Imagine that. All.
• 2:50:40
  Walking in. But imagine that episode, end of
• 2:50:43
  episode 4. Invasion of time turning around.
• 2:50:46
  It's not. Sometimes it's.
• 2:50:47
  Quarks, honestly. I think the thing that we have
• 2:50:51
  proven though is that within the spin off material, the quarks
• 2:50:56
  have legs. They have, they really have got
• 2:50:59
  legs and flappy arms and they've, like I said that
• 2:51:02
  they've been made the most of. I mean we know we do make it a
• 2:51:07
  bit of a joke about big finishing how they will, you
• 2:51:10
  know, literally to turn a sentence into a six part box
• 2:51:16
  set. But you know the the Crocs have
• 2:51:20
  endured. They have, you know, gone out
• 2:51:23
  there despite the limitations of of when they've actually been on
• 2:51:27
  screen and they have you know, spread and succeeded throughout.
• 2:51:31
  You know, you look look at something like the Mechanoids
• 2:51:34
  who were sort of brought in to be.
• 2:51:36
  You. Know the next sort of quarks and
• 2:51:38
  they tried with that and it didn't really take off.
• 2:51:40
  I think if they'd pushed the quarks a bit more, you know, it
• 2:51:44
  would really have got there. They would really have.
• 2:51:47
  The question we should be asking is why the fuck they haven't
• 2:51:50
  turned up in the new series yet? Obviously everything.
• 2:51:53
  For something because I've seen, I have seen though like a
• 2:51:56
  redesigned Quark for the modern age on Google.
• 2:52:00
  Have you seen it? Or has it got like proper legs
• 2:52:03
  and a proper body and no? No, no, no, no.
• 2:52:05
  OK, I'll show you once we're done with this.
• 2:52:07
  Right. And I'll put it up with the
• 2:52:08
  marketing. It's actually, it's quite
• 2:52:10
  faithful to the original, but it looks just a little deadlier
• 2:52:14
  than the original. Are you looking for it?
• 2:52:17
  Are you looking for it right now?
• 2:52:18
  Yeah, crockery design. There's, yeah, there's a picture
• 2:52:24
  of it on Google. Have a little, is that it?
• 2:52:29
  Yeah. It's a.
• 2:52:33
  It's a bit is. It.
• 2:52:35
  School Box Blitzer. Oh, is it the?
• 2:52:37
  Caretaker, do you think? The deadliest creature in the
• 2:52:40
  Galaxy. Yeah, that one.
• 2:52:42
  I can. Yeah, I.
• 2:52:44
  Don't know if that is it, you know, hang on a minute.
• 2:52:48
  I don't know if that is hang on. There's one that looks like the
• 2:52:51
  race skating and they've got like proper arms and whatnot.
• 2:52:55
  Oh my God, look at this one here for.
• 2:52:56
  Oh God, this is very indulgent given we're doing an audio
• 2:52:59
  commentary. Look at them.
• 2:53:00
  Look from the from the comic strips.
• 2:53:03
  Oh yes, it's a quark army. Oh, man.
• 2:53:08
  No, I don't think that was the one I was talking about, you
• 2:53:10
  know? Oh, do you know what I was
• 2:53:11
  talking about? Is this.
• 2:53:12
  It's the originals, just done as a very beautiful picture of
• 2:53:16
  glistening domes. Yes.
• 2:53:19
  That is the the original and the best.
• 2:53:22
  It is. It is.
• 2:53:23
  Fraser. Sure.
• 2:53:25
  I don't think it's going to take you any brain power at all to
• 2:53:29
  give me 3 reasons as to why people should go and watch the
• 2:53:32
  Dominators, and frankly, I think we've done a fair amount of
• 2:53:36
  encouragement already. However, that is the format of
• 2:53:39
  this. It is the format, yes.
• 2:53:41
  So #1 off you go. Number one would be the Crocs
• 2:53:48
  because of what we've literally just talked about the Quarks
• 2:53:50
  being such a fantastic design, such a memorable design of one
• 2:53:53
  that has endured. The one that has, you know
• 2:53:56
  spread into the the rest of the Doctor Who universe as it were
• 2:54:00
  and the expanded universe and all the other bits of media that
• 2:54:06
  that we've discussed. And and obviously because you
• 2:54:08
  know, Quickies just sat right next year and I can't not say
• 2:54:11
  nice things about them. Exactly.
• 2:54:12
  There we go to bed, very unhappy.
• 2:54:14
  Tonight I'm going to do something a little less obvious
• 2:54:17
  and I'm going to say the script. And I don't think anybody
• 2:54:20
  thought I was going to say that. And that is because I think
• 2:54:23
  we've identified really funny moments throughout this story.
• 2:54:29
  Yeah, I I, I will repeat, I don't think it's always directed
• 2:54:33
  for the laughs, but you can see them when they're the fella who
• 2:54:37
  says, have you got an appointment for your invasion?
• 2:54:39
  I mean, that is gold. If that was in the Graham
• 2:54:42
  Williams times, that would have been played to the heaven, that
• 2:54:44
  joke. But also as well that it is
• 2:54:49
  doing something intelligent with the theme of pacifism, whether
• 2:54:53
  it's condemning it or not. It's there and it is a small
• 2:54:59
  plot on the on the part of the dominators and it does resolve
• 2:55:03
  itself in a satisfying way. I don't know if it would have
• 2:55:07
  stretched to six, but as five I think there's enough there to
• 2:55:12
  keep it chugging along. Definitely.
• 2:55:15
  Like I say, I think in the right hands it could go to six, you
• 2:55:18
  know, put it, you know, give give 10 to another year to find
• 2:55:21
  his feet. He could make that 6 for you,
• 2:55:24
  but no. He gets stretched a plot out of
• 2:55:26
  10, you know. Absolutely.
• 2:55:29
  My second thing is going to be the direction then, because.
• 2:55:34
  I think that's expecting that, Oliver.
• 2:55:35
  No. And I think to be honest, I
• 2:55:36
  wouldn't have said that if it's asked us at the start, but
• 2:55:38
  haven't watched it now and having the conversation with
• 2:55:40
  you, you know where we have been, you know, particularly
• 2:55:43
  looking for things, I think the direction for most Barry does
• 2:55:46
  stand out a bit more than it should do the like I say,
• 2:55:49
  there's a lot more interesting stuff going on there.
• 2:55:53
  There's more good angles and you know, well framed shots and nice
• 2:55:57
  close-ups than then actually you would people have probably given
• 2:56:03
  it credit for in the past. So it's another one that I'm
• 2:56:05
  going to go back in next time I'll rewatch this.
• 2:56:07
  I'm going to be paying a lot more attention to to the
• 2:56:09
  direction because I really do think, you know, especially with
• 2:56:13
  how he shoots Rago particularly, you know, adds a lot to it.
• 2:56:19
  I think with these old fashioned directors there is like a they
• 2:56:25
  lean into the theatrical side of directing.
• 2:56:29
  But I think it's worth remembering that can be very
• 2:56:31
  stylish as well when done well, definitely.
• 2:56:33
  Definitely. OK.
• 2:56:35
  So then my next thing is going to be sorry the the trio of the
• 2:56:41
  Doctor, Jamie and Zoe. It's my favorite 2nd Doctor line
• 2:56:45
  up. I didn't realise what a great
• 2:56:49
  showing for Jamie this was until you pointed out all those things
• 2:56:53
  and you're absolutely right. And in fact it's probably his
• 2:56:56
  best showing this year actually. And Fraser Heinz is fairly
• 2:57:00
  critical about this on the commentary, but I think maybe if
• 2:57:04
  he looked at the nuts and bolts of it, he's been given a lot to
• 2:57:06
  do. Mind you, he's lusting after
• 2:57:08
  that cando as well, throughout most of it.
• 2:57:10
  I mean, that's part of Jamie's character.
• 2:57:12
  That's what I'm lusting after Fraser Heinz.
• 2:57:14
  So you know, fair enough. So I I think it is, I would say
• 2:57:19
  it's underrated. I think people love the 2nd
• 2:57:21
  Doctor, Jamie and Zoe. It is one of the best line UPS.
• 2:57:25
  Yeah, yeah. And I think what we need to also
• 2:57:29
  bear in mind, which we haven't discussed, is that this is Zoe's
• 2:57:32
  first story, this. Is, yeah, you know, this is.
• 2:57:36
  You know, Wendy probably has been introduced in the wheel
• 2:57:38
  space and then gets to carry on into this and the main robber in
• 2:57:40
  this production block. So technically, this is her
• 2:57:42
  first real one out as a as a companion.
• 2:57:45
  And there's a there's a stark difference between her and
• 2:57:47
  Victoria, you know, Victoria, who's been a very reluctant
• 2:57:51
  companion, who's, you know, always been on the verge of
• 2:57:55
  tears, and a lot of her stories, you know, it goes, it's, it's
• 2:58:00
  repeated again, isn't it? It's Mel and Perry you know that
• 2:58:05
  change, that shift from someone who doesn't always seem like
• 2:58:07
  they want to be in the TARDIS to someone who is bursting out the
• 2:58:10
  doors and saying right where's the next adventure where do we
• 2:58:12
  go. And that really comes across
• 2:58:14
  with all because she is so proactive in this story.
• 2:58:19
  She is very much. Well, OK, you go in there, I'll
• 2:58:21
  go in. I'm going to go to town with him
• 2:58:23
  and I'm going to. Yeah.
• 2:58:24
  And and well we need to do this now and you know she she is
• 2:58:28
  doing a lot you know for someone who is literally just stepped
• 2:58:32
  from one world into another all watches had seen the way we run
• 2:58:35
  of the evil of the Daleks. Extra kudos for the moment where
• 2:58:38
  Wendy Padbury has to be pretended to be stuck against a
• 2:58:41
  wall with a look of horror on her face, and you can literally
• 2:58:44
  see her thinking what's happened to my career?
• 2:58:47
  Honestly, this is what I'm doing, do you know?
• 2:58:49
  I think the best so we've seen is that one in the Invasion
• 2:58:52
  where she's figuring out all the calculations to destroy all the
• 2:58:56
  spaceships, and then the next thing she's floating
• 2:58:58
  outrageously with all the soldiers.
• 2:59:00
  I'm like, you couldn't be cooler, honestly.
• 2:59:03
  OK, we're back to you. So my third favorite thing about
• 2:59:07
  this, I'm going to pick the Dolcean Society, which I've
• 2:59:09
  talked a lot about. And I think that's like I said,
• 2:59:12
  it's supposed to be a you know, hippies are bad one time, but it
• 2:59:16
  doesn't did. You just do Mr. Mackie.
• 2:59:22
  Good. It doesn't really land.
• 2:59:25
  That way for me, I think they were fascinating, you know, You
• 2:59:30
  know, sort of like aliens of the week, Society of the week that
• 2:59:33
  you get. You know, it can be really
• 2:59:35
  difficult to build a world and build a fleshed out society
• 2:59:38
  where you actually, you don't understand people's motivations
• 2:59:42
  and the way they do things without being spelled out you.
• 2:59:44
  But in this, I think they've really done it well.
• 2:59:47
  It's you know, you can see, see that hubris.
• 2:59:50
  You know, you go from like, you know the partnership of the
• 2:59:53
  Boris Johnson's. You go to the council of the the
• 2:59:56
  Greeks. You go to the whole.
• 2:59:58
  You know you can't invade our planet without an appointment.
• 3:00:01
  You know you never get solved, all right.
• 3:00:04
  No, it just runs through with hubris and.
• 3:00:07
  What's really you're planning on invading us?
• 3:00:09
  Well, I shall write that down on my notepad.
• 3:00:14
  Oh yeah, the Daussians are on my third thing.
• 3:00:16
  OK. Well, I'm going to cheat and say
• 3:00:19
  two things for my last one. Is that right?
• 3:00:21
  No, we'll just do 4:00 and 5:00. Oh, oh, OK Well then, my third
• 3:00:25
  one is the sets of Barry Newbury, who offers us gleaming
• 3:00:30
  1950s space cities. He offers us fabulous 1950s
• 3:00:35
  flyer saucers. Oh, I'm going to say 1960s
• 3:00:39
  psychedelia within the the flying saucer and that
• 3:00:43
  wonderful. I just love that Hexagonal set.
• 3:00:46
  He's getting blown to pieces and they could just take a few
• 3:00:48
  hexagons. Off and show them.
• 3:00:50
  I think Barry Newby did some extremely imaginative work
• 3:00:55
  throughout the 60s. I think he very often did the
• 3:00:59
  historicals, if I'm not mistaken, and he very rarely
• 3:01:02
  touched. This might be one of his last,
• 3:01:04
  you know, but it just goes to show that he wasn't running on
• 3:01:09
  Mt. His imagination was still on
• 3:01:11
  fire, and this is a lot more visually interested than people
• 3:01:15
  give it credit for. Definitely, Absolutely.
• 3:01:19
  So why #4? I'm going to pick the Dominators
• 3:01:21
  themselves, Ragu and Toba for the very.
• 3:01:26
  Essentially, are the dominators you admit aren't we?
• 3:01:30
  I just love the design of them. Like I said, like I think Toby,
• 3:01:35
  he pointed out that sort of like tadabarous Frankenstein, this
• 3:01:39
  esque makeup that Ronald Allen's given, which really let's let's
• 3:01:42
  him highlight the sort of intensity and that burns in Rago
• 3:01:49
  and Kenneth Ives with his just gleeful sort of seed ISM as
• 3:01:54
  well. So the two characters have
• 3:01:56
  brought the life brilliantly. The costumes are brilliant.
• 3:01:59
  They just look so but you know straight away they'll walk out.
• 3:02:02
  There was like the bad guys and then just the dynamic between
• 3:02:06
  them, this whole sort of bickering, you know, you know
• 3:02:11
  superior under then who doesn't really do what you're supposed
• 3:02:14
  to do. And you know you just don't get
• 3:02:17
  that in other stories. You know, you don't get sort of
• 3:02:21
  Ice Warriors, sort of, you know, challenging like who's in
• 3:02:25
  command? You don't get like yet he's
• 3:02:27
  falling out with each other. You generally get the 1
• 3:02:29
  characterized villain. Yeah.
• 3:02:31
  Yeah. You don't.
• 3:02:31
  You don't get two, you know, spurned lovers in the workplace.
• 3:02:39
  That's brilliant as well. Never mix work and sex, you
• 3:02:41
  know? Then the Dominators explains
• 3:02:43
  why. OK, well then my next choice is
• 3:02:47
  go. Oh, do you know what I'm going
• 3:02:48
  to say? The practical effects, because
• 3:02:49
  as we were watching this, I was seeing quarries being blown up,
• 3:02:53
  egg boxes being blown up, walls being melted, flames shooting
• 3:02:57
  across all over them. Like that's a lot going on
• 3:02:59
  there. You know, for end of season.
• 3:03:01
  There's a bit of money on the screen and I think like no one
• 3:03:05
  really looks at the 60s for the special effects, but we're kind
• 3:03:08
  of heading in that direction where people are looking at
• 3:03:11
  Doctor Who 4 special effects. So bravo to the FX team.
• 3:03:16
  The last thing I'll pick then is it going to be Cully?
• 3:03:19
  No. Go on.
• 3:03:21
  Yeah I like, I like, I like that collie isn't your your normal
• 3:03:25
  action hero that he's not in that mould of sort of like Pex
• 3:03:30
  you know Pex the muscle bound young.
• 3:03:33
  What he's supposed to be. Supposed to be, yeah.
• 3:03:35
  He is that sort of like bold and not he's not quite middle-aged,
• 3:03:40
  but he's he's that sort of, he's not like a teenager.
• 3:03:43
  He's an older character with who hasn't got the physique that
• 3:03:46
  you'd expect with an action hero, you know and it kind of
• 3:03:51
  speaks to one that society, that this is the type of people, the
• 3:03:55
  society, this is the hero that they would produce and but
• 3:03:58
  organic. It's it's like we're not
• 3:03:59
  Hollyoaks, you know? We don't need Big Flash, you
• 3:04:04
  know? We kind of are now, though,
• 3:04:05
  aren't we? We are now.
• 3:04:06
  You know you wouldn't, you wouldn't get away with this.
• 3:04:08
  Who would you cast now as Cully? Who?
• 3:04:11
  The cast now is cool. Who's our sort of overweight,
• 3:04:13
  balding Rambo? Oh M.
• 3:04:19
  Was been a bit mean, really. Oh.
• 3:04:21
  No. What do you call him who played
• 3:04:24
  Alonzo in Voyage of the Damned? What Russell Tovey?
• 3:04:29
  Yeah, he would do good. He made a good collie.
• 3:04:33
  No, I mean, if you were going to cast an overweight, balding
• 3:04:37
  actor now to play this role. I can't think of any, but if I
• 3:04:42
  was going to recast. I can't think of any.
• 3:04:43
  I was hoping you were going to. It's sort of the Brian Glover
• 3:04:46
  sort of actor you. Know.
• 3:04:48
  Yeah. But I think Russell, Toby, now
• 3:04:50
  he's, you know a little bit older, would probably have that
• 3:04:53
  swim sort of stale about them as like, I'm not your typical
• 3:04:57
  action hero, but I'm going to do it.
• 3:05:00
  Fly about that quarry on his enormous ears, I could all jump
• 3:05:03
  on his back. OK, well, my last thing is,
• 3:05:06
  sorry, I don't make you wince. At least one last time before we
• 3:05:09
  go is you, Fraser Gregory and the fact that you have
• 3:05:17
  championed this story to such an extent that you've given me
• 3:05:21
  Stockholm syndrome with it and I've started to enjoy the thing.
• 3:05:27
  No, I think, I think celebrating the what are considered turkeys
• 3:05:33
  in Doctor Who is one of the best things that you do and it's one
• 3:05:39
  of the best things this podcast does And you bring those two
• 3:05:43
  things together. Yep, man, you've got fucking
• 3:05:46
  Audio Gold. Oh, thank you.
• 3:05:48
  That's very kind of in. That is exactly what I'm trying
• 3:05:51
  to do is, you know, champion it and make people look at it a
• 3:05:55
  different way and go actually, yeah, you know, I've written it
• 3:05:58
  off in the past for whatever reason.
• 3:05:59
  But if we go and look at it from a this angle or that way or if
• 3:06:03
  we consider this element, then actually yeah, it does stand up
• 3:06:05
  a bit better than than what it was.
• 3:06:06
  And some people that's they'll be like agree with us and some
• 3:06:09
  people really know I've listened to you for three hours now and
• 3:06:14
  I'm still not convinced, but. Can you hear that?
• 3:06:17
  Is it quickly? No, I think it's the sound of
• 3:06:20
  all the cellophane rapping coming off the Dominators DVDs
• 3:06:23
  on the back of listening to our commentary.
• 3:06:25
  Yes, that's what I've always said.
• 3:06:28
  You know if if me talking about it makes you want to go and
• 3:06:31
  watch it again and have another think about it, then I've, you
• 3:06:34
  know done your. Work is done.
• 3:06:36
  My work is done. Even if one person just goes out
• 3:06:38
  and goes, you know what, actually, yeah, we'll turn it
• 3:06:39
  from a five or six into a seven or eight or one or one with
• 3:06:43
  three or four, whatever. That's that's job done for me.
• 3:06:47
  I'll Fraser, your work has barely begun, my friend.
• 3:06:51
  And on that note, I mean, are we skipping into another Series 6
• 3:06:57
  epic after this? We.
• 3:07:00
  We possibly. I will keep saying that.
• 3:07:01
  Me. You inside.
• 3:07:03
  I've been promising it now for months.
• 3:07:06
  Where are you and I going next? Oh, I think we've threatened to
• 3:07:09
  go to trends a lot, haven't we? Oh fucking hell.
• 3:07:13
  Oh, tell me, you think that's an old conquering classic?
• 3:07:19
  I wouldn't go that far, but I think it's it's there's more in
• 3:07:23
  it to enjoy than again, most people will think.
• 3:07:26
  I'll tell you what, if you can turn my end on the Dominators,
• 3:07:31
  let's see what you can do with time with the Doctor.
• 3:07:33
  Oh, let's give it a go looking. Forward to it.
• 3:07:36
  Me too. A hamster with a blunt pen knife
• 3:08:13
  will do it. Quicker, quicker, quicker,
• 3:08:14
  quicker.