Latest / The Curve / Designer Babies, Anti-Aging & the $12.5B Lakers Deal.

Transcript

Designer Babies, Anti-Aging & the $12.5B Lakers Deal. · The Curve

0:01
In today's episode, there's been huge developments in the IVF industry where you can create designer babies and also spend money on living longer.
0:10
We're going to unpack this trend and what do we think about it morally.
0:14
And there's an asset class that has been outperforming the market for the last 60 years.
0:20
Property?
0:20
No.
0:22
sports.
0:23
We discuss a recent deal that has been done with the LA Lakers, which shows just how lucrative it can be.
0:27
Oh, and finally, we have got two amazing questions from the community, which we speak about at the end of the episode.
0:33
Welcome to The Curve Weekly, where we read the finance news so that you don't have to.
0:37
I'm Sophie Hallwright, ex-television and radio producer, who is sick and tired of not understanding the economy or how to grow my wealth, so we started this podcast.
0:44
And I'm Vic Harris, a finance professional who's had a career making money for other people.
0:48
But before we dive into the headlines, here's a word from today's sponsor.
0:56
This episode of The Curve Weekly is made possible by Pathfinder KiwiSaver Plan, helping you invest alongside your values.
1:01
Pathfinder's one mindful money, best ethical investing provider for five years running.
1:06
So we've teamed up with them to bring you the ethical hotline.
1:08
Got questions about the ethics of an investment or unsure where you draw the line?
1:12
Submit your questions via the link in the podcast show notes.
1:14
And thank you so much to Pathfinder for making this episode of The Curve Weekly possible.
1:18
Pathfinder Asset Management Limited is the issuer of the Pathfinder KiwiSaver Plan.
1:22
A product disclosure statement is available at pathfinder.kiwi.
1:26
So I have been playing Lorde on repeat and have been honestly telling everyone who will listen how incredible that creative direction was for her show.
1:35
It was so captivating.
1:37
I know.
1:37
My focus playlist is now Lorde.
1:40
My running playlist is now Lorde.
1:42
It's so funny how you go to a concert and then the flow on from that is you're like re-obsessed with their music.
1:46
We're both similar.
1:47
We thrash and thrash and thrash music.
1:50
Most people get sick of it after like three or four plays.
1:53
It's also so funny trying to explain to Soph's boyfriend, you know, how great Kiwis are.
1:58
Well, bless his heart, he was at Lord with four Kiwis.
2:01
Yeah, and we were screaming at the top of our lungs and he's standing there.
2:04
Such a dare.
2:04
Just like literally I was like, wow, he loves you so much.
2:08
I would have been like…
2:08
I'm just going to go see someone else and come back when you guys are done.
2:11
The other funniest thing is that I was very lucky that I was given tickets by a friend who plays Four Lord in her band.
2:20
Originally, I'd sort of been like, oh, everyone's away in August.
2:22
I feel like I have no friends.
2:24
I'd rather just go to the country and celebrate really low key.
2:28
And he was like, your favorite artist is playing on your birthday and you have tickets.
2:33
You know, we have to go.
2:34
And I was sort of like, oh, I just feel like a loser.
2:36
And then I was so glad we went.
2:38
But yeah, I would turn around and Vic would be screaming.
2:41
And then I'd just like, look.
2:42
And he was kind of just like, had this little sort of smile on his face, just not sure what to do with himself.
2:46
But also like, all the lyrics say, MDMA in the back.
2:50
And he's just like, whoa.
2:51
Like...
2:53
And everyone's just like belting them.
2:55
But like, I didn't realize it was one of the first All Points East with an all-female.
2:59
Oh my God, I didn't know that either.
3:01
All-female performance.
3:02
Yeah.
3:02
It's so cool.
3:02
It's quite amazing.
3:03
But it was so funny.
3:04
We were like walking to Lorde and Soph was like marching ahead of me.
3:07
And these girls were walking the other way.
3:10
And they turned around and looked at Sof and I thought it was because you were wearing like this incredible skirt.
3:14
And I was like, oh.
3:15
My whole butt was on display.
3:16
I was like they're going to comment on her butt or something.
3:18
And then this girl was like, oh, that's that finance Instagram girl.
3:23
And Vic was like in the shadows, saw it all happen.
3:27
And I was standing next to them.
3:28
And by the time I'd heard, I wish I'd been like, it's the curve.
3:32
Or like, how about me?
3:35
I'm the other girl.
3:36
But I just like kind of walked past and heard it.
3:38
At this time, I was like, oh my God, hilarious.
3:41
It's so funny.
3:41
Also, listen to the podcast.
3:43
It's not just an Instagram caption.
3:44
But like, she was like trying to tell her everything.
3:46
She was like, she's that girl from that finance Instagram thingy.
3:50
So good.
3:51
Anyway.
3:57
You know that guy, he's about 50 and he's a billionaire and he's trying to reverse his biological age and he looks kind of creepy.
4:06
What's his name again?
4:07
Do you remember?
4:07
Brian Johnson.
4:09
And he is spending $2 million a year on...
4:14
Trying to reverse his biological age.
4:16
So from 49 years of age, which he is now, to an 18-year-old.
4:19
And he's going to live until 2140.
4:21
That's his goal.
4:22
So how old would he be if he lived to then?
4:23
To another 100 years.
4:31
Oh, my God.
4:33
Yeah.
4:33
So he's kind of going to try and get to 150, basically.
4:35
Essentially, yeah.
4:36
I mean, the oldest person has lived to 120, I think, is the oldest person.
4:39
Far out.
4:39
Yeah, so.
4:40
The thing is with age and getting to that age, I think I really want to live a long life.
4:45
My granddad lived until he was nearly 104.
4:48
You know, that's like pretty good genes.
4:50
But it's that last part of your life, the quality of life.
4:55
Being good, and I guess this is my point, is that if he's investing in living a long life and bringing his biological age down to 18, then maybe those later years will actually be really enjoyable.
5:07
His body won't be aching and shit and slow.
5:09
Imagine being an 18-year-old body, but the mind of a 140-year-old.
5:14
Kind of the dream.
5:15
So weird, though.
5:15
Because the only reason I don't want to go back to being 18 is to be in the mindset of an 18-year-old.
5:20
But if I could be in the mindset of myself now...
5:23
So like he is uber wealthy, right?
5:25
Like he is a billionaire and he's spending this $2 million a year.
5:28
And it got me thinking, it was like, can money actually buy you a longer life?
5:32
Like in his instance, that's what he's trying to do.
5:35
But like for the everyday person –
5:38
Is it that, you know, if you're in a higher income bracket, does that lend itself to living longer in terms of being able to afford better healthcare, eat better food, you know, have time and flexibility to exercise and, you know, go for walks in nature, all of that?
5:55
And...
5:56
Pretty startling, the stats.
5:58
So in the UK, women in the most deprived areas of England lived to 78 years of age on average and 86 in some of the wealthiest areas.
6:06
So that's an eight-year age gap depending on how much you earn.
6:11
In New Zealand, it's about nine years, the gap.
6:15
Between people who live... People in terms of wealthy people and how long they live.
6:21
And then the less fortunate in terms of your salary and how long you live.
6:25
So it's everywhere.
6:26
It's in the UK, New Zealand, in Australia.
6:29
The gap is massive.
6:30
It's 13 years.
6:32
In the US...
6:34
It's 15 years.
6:36
Oh my God.
6:38
So your postgrad and your pay slip are kind of like some of the biggest predictors of how long you're going to live.
6:42
Oh Christ, that's scary.
6:44
Is that because you have better healthcare, better food, you can exercise, you can prioritize your health because you're not having to prioritize making money or put food on the tables?
6:53
Exactly.
6:54
And if we look at the UK, healthy food is nearly twice as expensive as unhealthy food.
6:59
So if you're going to the supermarket and you earn more, you can make those choices, you can purchase that food.
7:05
Things like GLP-1s, for example, that's all out of pocket right now still in terms of out-of-pocketism, you have to pay for it yourself.
7:14
And so if you have access to that kind of
7:17
That's one kind of medication.
7:19
There's so many other types of medication.
7:21
Then that can extend your life.
7:23
Skipping the queue.
7:24
So things like private health insurance, being able to afford that so that you don't have to wait.
7:30
There is a wait list of 7 million people.
7:34
In the NHS in England, which is like the National Health Service.
7:38
Yeah.
7:38
So if you were waiting for like a hip replacement and you had to wait six months, how damaging that can be.
7:43
And then cause other issues versus two to three weeks if you're kind of paying privately.
7:47
Can I just say, total side note, I went into a private hospital in the UK.
7:52
Yeah.
7:52
Yeah.
7:53
for um my boyfriend's like had this back operation they brought in food on i'm not joking a silver platter with one of those big bobble things that you pick off the top to show what is your fine dining i could not believe it i was like this is nicer than going to a restaurant
8:13
Why do I not?
8:13
Into your back more often.
8:15
He was like, do you want some of my panini?
8:17
Yes, I want some of that delicious looking panini.
8:18
You're like, my back's or two.
8:19
My back's or two.
8:20
Can I have a bed, please?
8:21
This looks very relaxing.
8:22
Sorry, we're not joking about bed.
8:23
Believe it.
8:24
No, but it's more just like I was shocked at the –
8:29
How amazing that service is.
8:31
Yes.
8:32
Going private versus public.
8:34
And I've actually personally had really amazing experience with the NHS over here, but that was just wild.
8:39
I couldn't believe it.
8:40
And also, like, being in chronic pain, it's not only debilitating.
8:43
It's the mental health, you know, issues that would come from it and, like, the...
8:48
just being in that much pain all the time, how that must affect you personally.
8:51
I'd be such a bitch if I was constantly sore.
8:54
The other thing, which is kind of how I got onto this whole topic, is that reproduction is now...
9:03
I mean, it always has been something that very much only wealthy people can do in terms of the cost of it.
9:09
But now in the U.S.
9:12
I'm scared.
9:13
There is now premium genetic screening packages up to $50,000 U.S.,
9:19
And you can screen for things like diseases, height, hair color, sex, IQ.
9:26
So, like, not only can you have the most healthy children possible because you can screen for diseases, but...
9:34
You can screen for IQ, which means you're going to – I would have been let go of in the early days.
9:38
This is kind of a tangent.
9:41
But we've spoken a lot about, you know, with gender reveals, it's the only real surprise there is in the world.
9:47
What gender is your baby going to be?
9:49
Like how many bloody surprises have I blown up?
9:52
Many in my time, you know, it's hard to genuinely surprise anyone or to leave things up to nature.
9:58
I feel like babies is one of those things that's so magic and incredible that it can even happen that you are, you know, an egg in a sperm that happens to connect, you know, because you could be a totally different person.
10:11
Yeah, yeah.
10:11
If someone had intervened, you wouldn't be here.
10:13
Like, I think there's so many layers to it, it kind of freaks me out.
10:17
Well, also with this conversation that's going on right now, is people are like, IVF shouldn't even be allowed.
10:22
Which I'm just like, what?
10:24
Why?
10:25
Because exactly your point, you're kind of, you're screwing with the process.
10:30
You know what I mean?
10:31
But it's like, you can't really prevent...
10:33
technological innovation, you know, in healthcare or any sector.
10:37
Who's trying to ban IVF?
10:39
No one's trying to ban.
10:40
It's just more because of this, the place where we've got to now in terms of being able to pick height and hair colour and sex.
10:46
Everyone's like, okay, we just, we need to rein it in because otherwise it's getting like way too out of control.
10:51
We need to rein it in.
10:53
And, you know, why is IVF even allowed?
10:55
And I'm just like, whoa, we're getting into some pretty serious heated issues.
11:00
topics and arguments.
11:02
It's a lot of ethics involved in picking how a human comes into the world.
11:08
And again, but it's $50,000 for these genetic screening packages.
11:13
So only the wealthy can then choose.
11:14
And we've done talks about how, unfortunately, how you look can also lead to how much you earn.
11:21
all of that.
11:21
So it's like, it's just, so yes, only the rich will be able to afford this and therefore, you know, you're getting an unfair advantage.
11:29
If you're the highest IQ embryo, you've already got a head start.
11:32
Imagine being in a class where, you know, a school class where all the kids have been chosen and they're the highest IQs and you're the one that didn't get genetic screening and you're the, you know, just, yeah.
11:42
Whoa.
11:43
It's like,
11:44
There's so much that says, which is true.
11:47
You think about where you're born in the world, the family you're born into, the wealth or poverty that you're born into, how much that dictates and impacts the rest of your life.
11:56
Imagine if before you're even born, there's people that have a leg up.
12:00
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
12:02
And look, it's like nature and nurture, right?
12:03
Like part of it is like still good education, good upbringing, all of that.
12:06
All of that often comes down to money too.
12:08
Exactly, exactly.
12:09
So we are really seeing this kind of like divide.
12:13
The good thing about this though that I liked with this genetic screening stuff that's been brought in in the US is that it is going to also result in the costs coming down for IVF.
12:25
because of there is automation, there's now going to be competition, you know, software.
12:30
So like we are seeing IVF treatment get cheaper.
12:34
Yes, there's more premium packages, but overall we are seeing it cheaper.
12:37
So therefore, you know, it isn't as much of just if you have money.
12:42
I mean, it's still going to be expensive.
12:44
It's still going to be a cost associated with it.
12:46
But yeah,
12:47
It is over time, you know, if you do have these services where companies can earn quite a bit of money, then it makes them more profitable.
12:57
Therefore, the costs can come down.
13:00
You've also got more and more technology being thrown into the space, which means that, you know, there's technological innovation.
13:06
Yeah, it's kind of...
13:07
If you were looking at this as an investable asset class, let's just say someone wanted to invest in this, what sector even is it?
13:14
Oh.
13:15
It's such a dichotomy because I do love this space.
13:18
And I think there's so many tailwinds in terms of women getting older, having children older, more people having children by themselves, not with a partner.
13:28
You've got same-sex marriages, all of these factors that lead to increased demand for IVF.
13:36
But then on the flip side, when you've got an industry that's earning so much and has such high margins, it's just ripe for competition.
13:45
And it's ripe for other entrants to come in.
13:48
And any industry that has huge, huge, huge growth or really good structural tailwinds, you've got to be careful that there's not going to be a point where the companies that operate in there, it's...
13:59
But if you invested in an IVF company, for example, that you don't all of a sudden have all this competition and there's this technology that makes everything cheaper.
14:08
And so you kind of have to be a bit careful.
14:10
It's also hugely regulated because you're dealing with... You're picking babies.
14:13
Yeah.
14:14
But is this an IVF space?
14:16
Is this still considered IVF?
14:18
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
14:19
So yeah, I guess it's an addition to the most basic service of putting a sperm and egg together.
14:26
That's so weird.
14:26
Yeah.
14:27
Have IVF businesses done well?
14:29
There's not many listed because, again, morally, when you invest in a company, you want that company to generate profit and you want it to grow and generate lots and lots of profit.
14:40
The flip side of that is you're charging people more and you're trying to make money off people that are using your system.
14:46
Has anyone ever had a problem in a capitalist society making money out of people?
14:51
No, but charging people more for shampoo and conditioner.
14:55
I don't care about that.
14:56
But charging more to someone who's desperate to have a child and they can't afford it or just because they don't earn enough, they can't afford to have that choice that everyone else gets.
15:06
You know, like morally.
15:08
I so see what you mean, but I would have not thought that that would be.
15:14
It's the same with kind of retirement village operators.
15:16
I just feel like they're out there to make money.
15:18
And these are people that are at the end of their life wanting to move into a facility to be taken care of.
15:25
But it's still a money-making scheme.
15:26
So again, it's what you're saying.
15:27
These types of businesses or industries ideally would be private sectors and owned by governments and not for profit necessarily.
15:35
Not owned by governments.
15:36
They can still be private.
15:37
I just think you run into risks.
15:39
And we've seen it look with supermarkets, right?
15:42
Or energy companies, things like that.
15:43
Cost of living crisis and these supermarkets, particularly in Australia, are earning billions and billions of dollars.
15:49
And there's people that can't even afford because the price of butter is like $18 or whatever.
15:54
And so you're right.
15:55
In a capitalist society, there's always going to be that friction.
15:58
But this is just a space that it's so morally questionable.
16:04
I'd really love to know if you're listening to this and you have any thoughts on whether or not you would invest or wouldn't invest in this type of business.
16:11
Can you comment wherever you're listening?
16:12
Yeah.
16:13
Just like, yeah, I would.
16:14
I understand it.
16:15
I would invest in it or know for me morally this sits.
16:17
I'd really be so interested to hear what everyone's thoughts are on it.
16:20
Because then on the flip side of that, right, when you invest, you're giving a company money to grow and be bigger and better.
16:27
And so if these companies that have more money and they can invest in new infrastructure or bringing the prices down so that more people can afford IVF, like the –
16:36
It's like with any business, right?
16:38
You're so right with the energy companies.
16:40
There is companies like BP, which produce so many carbon emissions.
16:44
But then there's actually companies that, yes, what they do, you know, it's just having a little moral lens over everything that you invest in really, is quite needed because, and it comes down to who's running the business, who's on the board, like all of that, which is really hard as an investor.
17:00
Yeah.
17:01
Yeah, I wonder if this is also one for the ethical hotline.
17:04
We do one of these a month.
17:05
If you're listening and you would like more of a deep dive from Lily at Pathfinder, who basically takes questions like this and can unpack them in terms of their ethical thoughts, their experts in ethical investing.
17:18
So if you do want to put a question through with regards to the space, you can.
17:21
We can link that in the podcast show notes.
17:23
I just want to finish on one key thing.
17:26
And I know we've talked about the cost of longevity, but...
17:30
The biggest cost on longevity is actually loneliness.
17:33
Really?
17:34
Yeah.
17:34
It carries a mortality risk of the same as having 15 cigarettes a day.
17:39
Being lonely?
17:40
Being lonely.
17:41
Gosh, I mean, I just keep hearing people talking about the male loneliness epidemic.
17:45
Oh, yeah.
17:46
And I just – so this is not just in regards to men.
17:48
This is men and women.
17:49
This is men and women.
17:50
And we are becoming a much more lonely society in terms of – because of social media, because of – there's just so many things.
17:57
And it's really sad.
18:00
For me, this comes into the bigger picture right now, which is we're in these isolated little family units or solo units where we have all of our own stuff, like our own –
18:10
You know, like vacuum cleaners, washing machines.
18:13
We have our own independent babysitters.
18:16
You know, like we're so insular in our little worlds.
18:20
And there's really such a lack of community at all different ages.
18:24
I've particularly loved being in London and being able to live with friends because I felt like I've had that sense of community amongst what is like quite a big, overwhelming city.
18:32
Yeah.
18:32
But, yeah, the older that you get, whether it's in a family unit or you don't have kids or whatever –
18:39
there is this real, we're on our own, this is our little world.
18:43
There's not a lot of connectivity between just like everyday functioning.
18:47
And I, I think it comes into, you know, how are we going to innovate around two parents working, um,
18:54
With childcare, there's so many threads here that I think it'll be super interesting to see if there's innovation in this space to bring more people together for loneliness reasons, for childcare reasons.
19:07
How can we facilitate a world that's more connected when we're more disconnected than we've ever been?
19:12
And the biggest reason for that when we spoke about it last time was...
19:15
smartphones.
19:16
That's right.
19:17
Yeah, which seems so at odds with you like no, but a phone is what connects you with people.
19:22
It's like no, no, but it does the opposite because people, you know, you sit there scrolling Instagram or you don't actually like put it down and actually like talk to someone or.
19:31
Can we talk about the actual impact of loneliness?
19:34
Is it that it directly impacts your health being lonely?
19:39
Like because saying 15 cigarettes a day, the equivalent of that
19:43
the impact on your health is huge.
19:45
We have so much science around that.
19:46
Is there any science around loneliness actually shortening your lifespan?
19:51
Like, what is that?
19:52
So loneliness, so your body treats social isolation as like a threat.
19:59
So you're constantly in this like fight or flight mode, which means that your cortisol is high, your stress levels are high, that over years can quietly damage your like cardiovascular system.
20:08
Oh my God.
20:10
Things like,
20:12
People also don't notice your symptoms.
20:14
You know, if you had a cough.
20:15
That's so sad.
20:16
Which is really sad.
20:17
Yeah.
20:18
Like if you had a cough constantly, I'd be like, so you should go get checked out.
20:22
You know, but if you're kind of... That's actually really hard right now.
20:24
Sleep as well.
20:25
Lonely people sleep worse.
20:27
And that, again, compounded over time.
20:29
It's really interesting because a lot of the child-free content, people tend to rebut somebody that chooses not to have kids by saying...
20:39
who's going to look after you when you're old?
20:40
And they're like, my money will, obviously, because they're going to have more money.
20:44
And if that's the reason you're having kids, that is not a reason to have kids.
20:48
It's quite interesting.
20:50
You almost want to, I guess, think about how can you pay to not be isolated when you're older?
20:54
Is it like paying to be in a home where there's more socializing so that that's not something that impacts you?
21:00
Because if you have grandkids or people checking on you who come in person...
21:05
That is a direct health impact.
21:08
It's not just like, it's not an emotional thing.
21:10
It's actually a longevity piece.
21:12
God, it makes me want to socialize.
21:15
You know?
21:15
Don't worry.
21:16
We'll notice if you have a cough.
21:17
More Lord.
21:18
More Lord.
21:19
Yeah.
21:19
Yeah.
21:20
Although I think the stress and anxiety of 100,000 people in one park was quite a lot for my Lord.
21:24
Oh, I had to leave early?
21:25
It was like two songs before the end.
21:27
She was like, I'm going to go.
21:29
All I could think of was the masses of people leaving.
21:33
And I was like, oh, my goodness.
21:35
We looked like we'd survived a plane crash.
21:37
We were walking towards the exit with all these people, like hundreds of thousands of people with just dust head to toe.
21:45
Did you blow your nose?
21:46
It was.
21:47
Oh, no.
21:47
feral.
21:48
I was like, gosh, no wonder people wearing bandanas and stuff.
21:50
I know.
21:51
First time ever I've thought very clever wearing a COVID mask outside of COVID.
21:54
Yes.
21:55
Yeah, exactly.
21:56
Coming up after the break, we are going to be talking about our favourite conversation.
22:03
Sports.
22:03
Sports and money.
22:05
It's actually super interesting.
22:07
Do you want to give a quick little byline for anyone that might be dropping out of this podcast as soon as they hear we're talking about sport?
22:12
There is, gosh, so much going on in the sports space right now across the world.
22:18
And yes, there's been a huge transaction.
22:23
between the LA Lakers and Disney.
22:27
Dun dun dun.
22:27
I'm like, I don't want to give much more money.
22:29
Come back in 30 seconds.
22:31
First, we have a quick word from today's sponsor.
22:33
Something that we often get asked is whether you can actually invest ethically.
22:37
It's such a common concern.
22:38
Honestly, a lot of people think money is bad and so they assume that investing must be too.
22:42
Yeah, I feel like pre-2000s, most investing focused entirely on profits, and that was above planet people, all of those things.
22:51
But things have changed now, and it's so much easier to invest in a way that balances both financial returns as well as doing the right thing.
22:58
And that's why we partnered with Pathfinder, because they make ethical investing understandable and accessible.
23:03
Thanks to Pathfinder for making this episode of The Care Weekly possible.
23:06
Pathfinder Asset Management Limited is the issuer of the Pathfinder KiwiSaver plan.
23:10
A product disclosure statement is available at pathfinder.kiwi.
23:14
Am I being rude by assuming people aren't interested in sport?
23:17
Because I will say the story I find fascinating.
23:20
Yeah.
23:21
And there is such a trend with women supporting more sport.
23:25
100%.
23:26
Yeah.
23:27
We can see it.
23:28
We can see there's more coverage.
23:29
There's more people attending female sport.
23:31
It is a massive growth industry right now.
23:36
But there is also...
23:38
I think not just in female sport, but generally in sport, there is so much going on.
23:44
And the reason I kind of dug into this was there is so much, in Australia in particular, there is this whole drama with the Sydney Swans.
23:54
So for anyone that's missed that...
23:57
It has absolutely blown up.
23:59
And fair enough, it is so incredibly bad.
24:01
There has been a sexual assault case brought against the Sydney Swans.
24:05
And they're in the final stages of like some premiership.
24:10
And anyway, everyone's like, oh, gosh, it's going to impact the tournament.
24:13
And everyone's like, hold on a second.
24:15
These are some, there's like five men that have been named that have done some absolutely terrible things.
24:20
Sorry, allegedly done some terrible things.
24:23
Anyway, there was a sports game in the weekend, the Sydney Swans, the female and the male team that played.
24:29
And there was a huge walkout because the females played first and everyone was like, look, we're here to support them.
24:35
Yes, there's been a lot of brand damage with the Sydney Swans, but we're here to support the woman and we want to show up and support the woman.
24:40
And then there was a huge walkout for the men's team.
24:43
Love it, love it, love it.
24:45
But it also got me thinking about like sponsors and like how a brand can be so damaged by something that people, anyway, it was like, I was like, gosh, there must be so many sponsors of that team that are pissed off.
24:58
They're just the repercussions and like, yes, we're a financial podcast.
25:00
So we're focusing on.
25:02
the kind of the financial side of it.
25:03
I know there's so much more to the story, but with that came this other article that I read about the LA Lakers.
25:09
And I was like, the LA Lakers has last week been...
25:14
It's basketball, right?
25:15
Basketball, yeah.
25:16
Yeah.
25:17
Has last week been sold for $12.5 billion, more than anyone has ever paid for an American sports team.
25:27
And I was like, gosh, there's just so much...
25:31
And look, there's so many different angles to this.
25:33
I was like, gosh, ha, ha, ha.
25:35
But the fact that there is just so much, there's so many eyeballs right now on sport.
25:42
There's so much money involved in sport.
25:44
And it is, I personally think, a hangover from COVID of people who,
25:49
wanting to get out, see their favorite sports teams, support.
25:53
And again, it kind of comes back to this loneliness thing.
25:56
How cool that sport actually brings people together.
25:58
But anyway, so the people that bought the LA Lakers and did the biggest transaction in American sport was...
26:09
The former Disney boss.
26:11
Bog Iger.
26:12
Bog.
26:12
Bog.
26:13
What's his name?
26:14
Bob Iger.
26:14
Bog Iger.
26:16
Bob Iger, yes.
26:17
The fact that I even know that is crazy, though.
26:19
It's great.
26:20
Look at you.
26:21
Bob Iger.
26:22
He's not at Disney anymore, right?
26:24
No, no, no, no.
26:25
He was in Disney and, like, made it...
26:28
made it an incredible company and then kind of quit just before COVID.
26:31
Then COVID hit.
26:32
Obviously, all the theme parks are shut, like huge, huge impacts.
26:35
And then that CEO left and he got brought back in.
26:38
That's right.
26:39
Anyway, he bought the LA Lakers.
26:42
With Josh Kushner, who is Carly Kloss' husband.
26:46
Oh my gosh.
26:47
Yeah.
26:48
So they've teamed up together and bought the LA Lakers.
26:51
It's so weird that you buy a sports team and the players are bought.
26:55
I know.
26:55
Just the idea of it is so odd.
26:58
Also, they were valued in October 2025, so less than a year ago, for $10 billion.
27:06
Wow.
27:07
So the guy that sold them to Bob Iger and Josh Kushner... Made $2 billion.
27:13
Made $2.5 billion in less than 12 months.
27:16
No.
27:16
That is a 25% return, which we know the stock market delivers about 10% return on average.
27:25
And I was like, gosh, there's something in this in terms of investing in this asset class.
27:30
Back in 1979, they were bought for about $68 million.
27:33
And now they're being sold for $12.5 billion.
27:35
What is increasing the price that much?
27:36
Yeah.
27:41
Haha, glad you asked, Soph.
27:42
That wasn't planned for everyone wondering.
27:45
Yeah, I was like, what is it that they get?
27:47
Dividends?
27:47
You know, is there a return on investment?
27:49
Because you get a return on your investment from either the increase in the value of the asset or the money it pays out.
27:57
So it's like if you bought a house –
27:59
you either get a return on your investment through the rental money that you get from renting out that house.
28:05
Or capital gains.
28:06
Or the capital gains, the increase in value.
28:08
And what drives an increase in value or the increase in price of something is when... Shit, I thought you weren't going to throw to me.
28:19
Supply and demand.
28:20
So many more people want sport now.
28:22
Therefore, the demand's going up.
28:24
Yes.
28:24
And there is only a limited number of teams that...
28:28
They're not producing more teams.
28:29
So the actual asset is what's called.
28:34
It's real scarce.
28:36
But the asset class, so the team, in the same way that the capital gains or the actual value of the asset within a property goes up, it's the equivalent of that.
28:45
So there might be also increase in the amount of money they're making from merch and viewership and sponsors, but ultimately because there's not that many teams, it's the actual team value that's the asset that's increasing.
28:57
They're not – It's so interesting.
28:58
It's kind of like crypto.
28:59
You know, there's only a certain amount of coins.
29:02
Crypto.
29:03
Shit.
29:04
We're recording at like 11, you know, sort of midday.
29:07
Normally it's an 8 a.m. record for us.
29:09
And I think that we are much more onto it first thing in the morning.
29:12
So, okay, that's really interesting.
29:14
So just like say you were in a suburb and there was only –
29:18
10 houses built and it was the most prime suburb and you just, everyone wanted to live there.
29:25
They weren't building any more houses.
29:27
That price would just naturally go up because it's so rare.
29:30
If someone went and put a big apartment block with –
29:34
500 one-bedroom units.
29:36
You'd be gutted if you owned one of those houses because you're like, cool, now there's just an increase in supply.
29:41
And it's like even with the share of a stock, if everyone wants to buy Apple shares, there's only a limited number of Apple shares, so the price goes up.
29:50
And it's exactly the same.
29:51
Like, supply and demand, it takes everything.
29:52
If you're looking at a piece of art, all of a sudden everyone wants it.
29:55
You know, it's like – Well, so think about human psychology.
29:57
As soon as you can't have something, you want it more.
30:00
Oh, my God, totally.
30:00
It's anything.
30:01
Yeah.
30:01
Relationships.
30:03
Like, oh, my actual God.
30:05
Like, food.
30:05
As soon as your ex-boyfriend gets with someone else, you're like, oh, my God, did I make a mistake?
30:09
But also, you order the mushroom risotto and they're like, sorry, I'm out of mushrooms.
30:13
You're like, well, now it's all the only thing I feel like.
30:15
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
30:15
Exactly.
30:16
You know?
30:16
Everything comes down to you want stuff that's like hard to get.
30:20
Yes, exactly.
30:21
Yeah.
30:22
Do you know what's interesting?
30:23
Someone I spoke to the other day is an ex-professional rugby player.
30:27
And he was explaining the way that players get paid and how the layering is, you know, this almost like –
30:33
There's one contract that'll be for six months.
30:35
And then on top of that, there's another one, another one.
30:37
And it's such an interesting layer.
30:39
And they were talking about, you know, if you stay, for example, and this is kind of New Zealand specific, but say if you choose to stay in New Zealand and you're sort of betting against like, will I make the All Blacks for rugby?
30:49
Where you can make, you know, a million a year.
30:51
Or should you be taking the risk and actually going rather than spending those three years trying to get into the All Blacks?
30:57
And playing overseas where you get paid way more money.
31:00
And I was like, hold on, why do you get paid more overseas?
31:02
And he was like, well, think about it.
31:04
Like, you know, Japan, for example, doesn't have a super strong rugby team.
31:07
So, like, they buy players to make the game more exciting.
31:10
And I was like, oh, my God, it's almost like kind of human trafficking.
31:14
You're buying people.
31:15
I agree.
31:15
It's like Hunger Games of sport.
31:17
They're like, you're a better player.
31:18
Let's bring you into the Japanese team.
31:20
I was like, whoa.
31:22
And, like, I know this is super, like –
31:25
But like watching the Kardashians and their boyfriends would just get bored and they had to go move to Texas and like because they're basketball, dating basketball players that just get like sold off.
31:34
Like even David Beckham in the Beckham documentary and he just got like had to move.
31:38
I'm just like, I know.
31:39
You'd be like, no, I don't want to.
31:42
No.
31:43
Anyway, so the reason this is such a big deal for the LA Lakers, well, and basketball in general, is that there was a monster deal struck in 2024 with Disney, Amazon, and it was for media rights.
31:59
So $76 billion over 11 years is going to be spent on promoting the NBA.
32:05
So if you think you've now got this asset that's going to be broadcast much,
32:12
then what does that do that increases the demand for this asset?
32:16
You know, if all of a sudden your house that you bought in that suburb, the apartment block isn't going, you know, that's not going up.
32:21
And there's all these posters and billboards saying like, you should live in central London.
32:25
Yeah, but oh, you can't get it because I'm here.
32:28
You know, like, yeah, it's adding to the demand.
32:31
Can you invest in sport?
32:33
Like other than just like buying an entire team, obviously I do not have how many billions.
32:38
But can you, can you, because I remember actually ages ago, we spoke about Formula One and how it's starting to become a sport you can invest in.
32:45
Yeah.
32:46
Look, I, yeah, I was looking at like, okay, how do you actually invest in this space?
32:51
Because you're right.
32:52
It's like, cool.
32:53
Awesome, Vic, but I don't have $12.5 billion.
32:56
Also, I don't really want to buy a sports player.
32:58
I think this is also a prestigious thing, right?
33:00
Like all these.
33:01
It's almost like a Glastonbury, not a Glastonbury ticket, like a Wimbledon ticket or something.
33:04
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
33:05
It's like a cultural thing.
33:07
asset.
33:07
It's also kind of fun to invest in things outside of stocks and property and crypto and jewellery.
33:13
It's like you can invest in sport now.
33:15
How weird.
33:15
You can actually buy.
33:17
So Manchester United is a Premier League that is actually listed on the New York Stock Exchange.
33:21
Madison Square Gardens, they own the New York Knicks and like a few others and they're listed.
33:26
Formula One is actually listed, but these actually haven't done that well in the past.
33:29
And the reason is because people want to, like the reason an asset goes up in value is because you control it.
33:36
When it's a public company, you don't control it as much.
33:39
And so you don't get like, yeah, there's kind of value in owning the entire asset rather than just like a part of it.
33:46
The best way I would say to get,
33:49
access to this space in general and this is not advice would be to own kind of adjacent things so we're talking about how basketballs sorry basketballs company that produces basketballs yeah yeah meeting for i mean like courts clothing maybe just like maybe not so niche but like nike adidas puma
34:10
On, you know, on the shoe brand, like all these companies, they're the ones that are going to sponsor these teams.
34:17
And yes, you've got to be careful because, you know, the bigger a team gets, the more you get paid in sponsorship, which means the Nikes of the world are paying more.
34:24
But for a league that's just signed incredible media rights like that.
34:28
If you're the sponsor of the LA Lakers or you're a sponsor of any one of those teams, your brand's going to be seen.
34:32
That's going to mean more sales, more profit, all of that.
34:36
Also, you could invest in the companies that actually carry those media rights.
34:40
So the Disneys of the world, the Amazons, the Netflix, Sky TV in New Zealand, like all of those are companies that are also going to benefit.
34:48
But again, got to be careful because they... Oh, I just Googled.
34:52
Who are the major corporate sponsors for the Lakers?
34:54
Yeah.
34:55
There is Nike, PepsiCo, Delta Airlines, UCLA Health, American Express, Toyota.
35:02
Which are all publicly listed.
35:05
Yeah.
35:05
So you can get access to all of those.
35:08
But there's also funds in ETF.
35:11
Most of them are...
35:12
Like sports betting ones, which I don't really like.
35:15
Oh, yeah.
35:15
Not much of that.
35:16
But I think also the kind of female angle here is like, yes, we're talking about the LA Lakers, which is a men's team, and men's basketball, which has been around forever and been quite dominant in US sport.
35:27
Yeah.
35:29
If you think about female sport as an asset class, men's sport is kind of like up here and it's had so much success and people have watched it forever.
35:39
There's this asset down here.
35:41
That has room to grow.
35:42
That has room.
35:43
You could either invest in the real consistent deliverer that, you know, is going to generate a return.
35:49
The supermarket.
35:50
Or you can invest in the really exciting one that's got room to grow.
35:54
that is signing much, much smaller media rights right now and, you know, has got much, I guess, less interest from sponsors, et cetera.
36:03
But the upside and where it could get to is massive.
36:07
And that's what people are saying in female sport is like,
36:10
hang on a second, we're starting to see these little inroads or little hallmarks of, okay, if it can get from A to B, how massive and how incredible is that?
36:20
And so that's why all these sponsors and media companies are jumping on female sport.
36:27
I'm going to keep figuring out how to get more exposure to this trend.
36:31
I think it's huge.
36:32
I think it's massive and how we can actually benefit from it.
36:35
Female sport –
36:36
It's an investing class on its way up.
36:38
Yeah.
36:39
Definitely agree.
36:40
Yeah.
36:40
So fascinating.
36:41
Love someone to create an ETF that we can kind of invest in.
36:44
Oh, yeah.
36:45
If anyone knows any, please let us know.
36:46
Yeah.
36:47
That would be great.
36:53
We've got two questions, community questions that have come through.
36:56
We actually, we've got a lot of community questions.
36:58
We're going to answer two today because we're getting a bit of a backlog.
37:02
There was a voice note sent through to the Curve hotline.
37:05
So we're just going to play that now.
37:07
Kia ora.
37:08
Just want to first of all say congratulations.
37:11
I think you guys have been absolutely thriving lately.
37:14
I've been very excited to have started investing with you guys on the Curve fund.
37:19
My funds are with you and I've been doing some direct debits.
37:23
I was just wondering, because you guys said that the co-founder is going to become available via sharesies, would you recommend that I continue to invest via direct debit or pivot and do it via sharesies?
37:38
If I were to invest in the Curve Fund on Chesies, it wouldn't recognize what I have already invested with you guys via direct debit.
37:48
Would love some advice about what you think is best, what you think is easiest, and probably what you'd prefer even.
37:54
Thank you so much and bye.
37:57
Sorry, I love the voice notes.
37:59
Yeah.
38:00
First thing I'd like to point out.
38:02
Love that she's in the curve.
38:03
When I'm giving advice because we can't.
38:05
But I think ease is important when it comes to investing.
38:09
What is easiest for you?
38:10
Because if you like having everything in one place, then sure, you could do it all on shazies, all on a platform.
38:18
Vic, from your perspective, because one of the questions was like, what's better for you guys?
38:23
I think let's talk to that.
38:24
So you don't get charged any different.
38:26
If you invest through Sharesies or directly through us, you would get charged exactly the same fee.
38:32
So there's no difference.
38:34
We aren't on Sharesies yet.
38:35
We will be next month, which is exciting.
38:37
The fact that you've already signed up
38:39
through our platform, like the kind of the heavy lifting's done.
38:43
So it's kind of – Just leave it and do it that way.
38:45
I would say just leave it.
38:47
But, yes, you're right.
38:48
If you then invest in the Curve Fund through Sharesies, it won't be able to see that you're invested on both places.
38:55
What do you mean?
38:57
You'll just come through as – like we only see Sharesies as an investor in the fund.
39:02
We don't see Sophie Hallwright from Sharesies.
39:05
But we see Sophie Hallwright if you come through the Curve Fund.
39:07
Great.
39:08
So it won't be able to notice that you're investing in two different places, if that makes sense.
39:13
Look, I would just leave it.
39:14
Yeah, it's easier.
39:15
You're paying the same amount.
39:16
And if down the track you want to have it all in one place and all investing shares ease, that's great.
39:21
It's much of a muchness from our end.
39:23
It's more what's convenient for you.
39:24
Yeah, nice.
39:25
We've also had a question come through, a written one.
39:28
I'm going to read it out.
39:29
Hey, lovely ladies.
39:30
Love the podcast and congratulations on the new fund.
39:32
I have a question that I'd love to get your two cents on.
39:34
I'm a lawyer in a pretty large law firm.
39:37
I'm in one of their regional offices.
39:39
The firm is known to typically pay below market rate.
39:43
Today I was notified of a pay rise, 2%, which is roughly an extra £1,333 per year.
39:51
I'm not too pleased about it.
39:52
It's below inflation and it means my salary continues to lag way behind peers in firms of a similar size with the same experience as me by about £10,000 to £20,000 a year.
40:03
I exceeded my financial targets this year.
40:06
I organised all of the team's training sessions and external providers.
40:09
I keep the precedent back up to date.
40:11
I've been on a successful secondment this year.
40:14
All positive factors that I thought would result in a decent pay rise this year.
40:18
I was expecting at least £4,000 to £5,000 more.
40:21
Would you raise this with the team management?
40:23
How would you pitch for more?
40:25
I had my end of year reviews two months ago where I made my accomplishments clear.
40:32
I'm currently five weeks into maternity leave with baby number three.
40:35
And this really makes me question going back.
40:38
The only factor that would keep me there is the flexibility that I have to predominantly work from home, which is so valuable to be with small children.
40:45
Most other firms would expect me to be in the office three days a week, whereas I only go into the office once a month.
40:50
Your thoughts are much appreciated.
40:52
Keep up your amazing work.
40:53
I, firstly, like the fact that she's kind of justifying it is such a female thing to do.
40:59
Like, oh, but they've got flexible working conditions.
41:01
You know, like that's like what we do as females.
41:03
We kind of justify.
41:05
But I actually think what she's saying is I realize I'm paid less.
41:09
Totally.
41:09
But what I really appreciate is the flexibility.
41:11
And maybe what she's saying is if I went to another firm and got a pay rise, I don't think I'd be given the same.
41:17
flexibility, which is really valuable to her right now with young kids.
41:20
Yes.
41:21
So I guess it's like, yeah, what do you value most?
41:22
The increase in salary or the flexibility?
41:25
But I agree.
41:26
I think you have to ask.
41:28
I think the worst they can say is no.
41:30
They're not going to say no, and we're going to take back your 2% pay rise.
41:34
So I think you have to go in there.
41:36
You've got all the data.
41:37
You've got everything that you've contributed.
41:38
But it's so hard on maternity leave.
41:39
How do you even do that?
41:40
You're still employed.
41:41
Technically, they have to treat you.
41:42
So you can negotiate a salary.
41:43
They have to treat you like an employee.
41:45
Like it is like, that is illegal to not treat you as an employee.
41:49
Like you're there every day.
41:51
I didn't even realize that.
41:52
So like why should you be disadvantaged just because you're the only one that can give birth to children?
41:57
So basically – But it's so hard.
42:01
Like we need to – it's so hard when you are on maternity leave to have those conversations because it's so right.
42:07
You're like, well, I'm not there and I'm not working.
42:09
But it's like that almost –
42:12
put that to one side.
42:13
You're still an employee.
42:16
It's for what you previously delivered.
42:18
And also, if you don't ask now, when you come back from maternity leave, whether it's six months or a year, it's going to be even harder to ask because you'll be like, oh, I haven't been here for a year.
42:25
I've got to prove myself for another year.
42:27
Yeah.
42:27
So it's like, you're right.
42:29
I think you go in there saying, okay, inflation's at above 2%.
42:33
So...
42:35
okay, that's an increase.
42:37
Let's put that for inflation.
42:39
What about the increase in commitment and work that I've done over the past year?
42:43
Where's the increase for that?
42:45
It sounds like you've got people in similar positions that have got 10,000 to 20,000.
42:49
Yeah, I think get some proof points from other people.
42:51
And call their bluff and be like, I've spoken to people or they don't know.
42:57
And say I've got evidence that other people –
43:00
When similar roles, what are I?
43:01
I've been paid 10 to 20.
43:03
And then also what?
43:05
I think if you know for sure that you're being paid below market rate, that's a pretty strong footing to be on.
43:12
I think if you were going in saying, I work so hard, I'm massively undervalued and I'm really good at my job, but I am at the top end of my pay bracket.
43:23
It's way harder.
43:24
But I think if you have proof that other people in similar roles with similar experience are getting £20,000 more than you, that's huge.
43:29
I think also try to not phrase it about you, but like what value add you've given to the firm because they'll be coming at it from their view.
43:39
And if you're like, look, I have –
43:41
done this, this, this, which has added more efficiencies or made – you did some training sessions, made the team more valuable for the firm.
43:50
You know, like how have your contributions been beneficial to the firm?
43:55
You know, did you bring on a big project that –
43:57
increased revenue by x you know like having those things as well rather than just like i deserve this i deserve this it's and also i think the future proofing of the value you want to continue to bring over the next two three four five years because it's fucking annoying to go through a hiring process they're gonna have to pay way more than 20 000 pounds to hire someone new and train someone new 100 percent know your worth know that yeah yeah
44:20
And also if they're like, look, we really can't be like, cool, well, can I get in writing that in six months time I get 10,000 increase or get something that's like – An extra two weeks of holiday with your kids a year.
44:30
Yeah, there might be something that they'll give in other people.
44:33
But also totally just call their bluff and be like, cool, thanks so much for your – like telling me where you stand.
44:38
Like I'm just letting you know I will explore other opportunities if there's not room for me to grow here and be valued in the same way that I know I could be by other firms.
44:44
Because that's what I did and I called –
44:46
I asked for a pay rise twice and it got denied.
44:48
And I said no.
44:49
And I was like – and then the third time I was like, okay, I'm leaving.
44:52
I'm joking.
44:53
Oh, you – But, yeah, Vic found it.
44:56
She basically found on a photocopier what everyone was getting bonus-wise.
45:01
And it was way – and they were being paid way more than she was.
45:04
And so she was like –
45:05
Call their bluff.
45:06
They didn't come to the party.
45:07
So she was like, sweet, I'm out.
45:09
And then they came to the party and were like, oh, my God, let us know.
45:11
We'll give you $500,000.
45:12
They were literally like, oh, you've got a blank sheet of paper, whatever your job description you want, whatever you want to get paid, like just let us know.
45:17
And I was like, too little, too late.
45:18
It's like.
45:19
Bye.
45:20
Yeah.
45:20
I was like, no, you disvalued me.
45:23
Undervalued.
45:23
You undervalued me.
45:24
You disrespected me.
45:26
And now when I'm about to leave and it's going to cost you X to rehire, now you want to have that like.
45:32
No, I'm sorry.
45:34
I think actually you're probably going into this conversation, you should give the energy of you could leave from the beginning because I think if you go in too soft, they probably will say sorry and then they'll come back when you start being hard-nosed like you were.
45:48
You're like, okay, I'm leaving.
45:49
They're like, oh, kidding.
45:50
Whereas if you can come at it quite seriously, like I'm just weighing up my options here because with a young family, £20,000 difference for me is huge.
45:58
If I can't get that here, I'm going to have to look for other opportunities.
46:00
Yeah.
46:01
Or you could flip it.
46:04
We're giving you lots of – This is so fun.
46:05
I love giving advice.
46:06
You could flip it and go, hey, I've heard that other people have got $10,000 to $20,000.
46:10
Why?
46:12
According to you, why was I not considered for that amount?
46:15
Is there something I've done?
46:16
Is it kind of treated as like a – you said you had a performance review and it was great.
46:22
So flipping it back to them and being like, okay, well, why did I not get this level?
46:26
Because there must be a reason.
46:26
But also, just say, inflation is this.
46:29
My salary is not even keeping up with inflation.
46:31
Yeah.
46:32
Like, thank you for the $2,000, but like, I...
46:34
I'm actually going backwards.
46:35
But I understand I'm still going backwards.
46:37
Yeah.
46:37
So if we could just like... And I don't know if you have visibility on like what company profits were that year or like anything, you know, because...
46:44
Yeah, if you've also got that card up your sleeve of like, oh, the business is actually doing really well, then it's kind of like, okay, well, why aren't we getting paid more?
46:52
I would just say have the conversation with your work, but I would say also at the same time speak to recruiters.
47:00
Start to put your feelers out there.
47:01
If you genuinely would prefer to work for someone else where you're paid more, I think don't just assume you can't get flexible hours.
47:08
Yeah, true.
47:09
You never know.
47:10
If you're really good at what you do, then –
47:13
And people are a lot more receptive these days to flexible working, but I know in law, probably not.
47:17
Law isn't annoying, isn't it?
47:18
Yeah.
47:18
Fun.
47:19
Three to them with a lawsuit.
47:21
We'll get our lawyer onto you.
47:23
Oh my God, she is the lawyer.
47:25
I know, yeah.
47:26
Oh God, a bit slow today.
47:27
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47:31
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47:34
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47:45
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47:49
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47:50
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47:51
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47:52
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47:54
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48:00
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48:04
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48:07
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48:09
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48:13
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48:16
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48:18
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48:30
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48:36
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48:46
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48:50
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48:54
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48:56
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48:56
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