Latest / The Brilliant Fertility Podcast / Episode 082: Is Fragrance Damaging Your Fertility?

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Episode 082: Is Fragrance Damaging Your Fertility? · The Brilliant Fertility Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Brilliant Fertility Podcast.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Katie Rose, and this podcast exists to help illuminate the path ahead of you.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: With expert interviews, clinical pearls, and real client success stories, my intention is to bring you hope for what's possible on this journey, and to give you tools and resources to navigate the ups and downs on the road before you.
• 0:28
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• 0:34
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• 0:35
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• 0:38
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• 0:42
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• 0:44
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• 0:47
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• 0:52
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• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so grateful for you for being here.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: All right, friends, we are so long overdue for a conversation about fragrances on the podcast.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: And some of this stems from a personal vendetta against them.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: I have been chemically sensitive for as long as I can remember.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: I remember a teacher having a perfume in third grade that just made me feel so ill.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't even have words for it at that time.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: I just knew like this teacher would be in my space and it would feel like a violation because I would feel like dizzy or like I couldn't focus.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't necessarily that the smell was unpleasant.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: It was like it literally made me feel physically like something was off.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: And recently, as we've opened our new space, I've had the unfortunate experience of several patients coming in with some type of fragrance that triggered a migraine.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I did not grow up getting migraines.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, the first migraine I ever had was in my first pregnancy at 30 years old.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh my gosh, like obviously I had a sense that migraines were terrible, having supported patients with them.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: But the firsthand experience was a real reckoning.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: And after my second son was born, I've been more prone to them.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I don't eat enough protein, if I haven't been hydrated enough, if I haven't slept well for several days in a row, or if I get exposed to a perfume, a cologne, any any fragrance, it doesn't necessarily that has to be a perfume or cologne, um body lotion.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, oh goodness.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Getting in someone's Uber and they had one of those air fresheners, I had to like roll the window down.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: And thankfully I had been traveling, so I'd had a mask with me.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it so I put the mask on, I put the window down.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I like by the time we got to our destination, like I thought for sure I was gonna barf.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: And um I had my acupuncture needles and I had one homeopathic remedy with me for traveling purposes just in case.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: But when I go down, I go down hard.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not a sustainable way to work.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so I have been very uncomfortably um setting that boundary, which has been a policy in our practice of you know, having our practice be fragrance free.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that some people just aren't even fully aware of their fragrance on you know, so many levels, we all operate differently.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: We all have different sensory perception.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I happen to have the nose of a hound.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have a gas leak in your house, I'm your gal, I'll be able to pick that up quite easily.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you have something stinky in your trash that needs to be thrown out, I will smell that from across the house.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: And this is not to say that my house always smells perfectly, but just to say, like, I have a really sensitive perception of smell.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: And my nervous system picks up on this as well.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I am doing a lot on my part to desensitize so that I don't have those reactions, including you know, checking in on my detox systems, um, checking on any like emotional connections to fragrance that may need to be supported differently.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've done several sessions of hypnosis around this too.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: And for a while, I think I was less sensitive than I have been more recently.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: But the sheer act of coming to work and being exposed and then being down for 24 hours is not something I can sustain.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to bring it to the awareness of our listeners, not just for my sake, but because I know that I'm a canary in a coal mine.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's been frustrating as a human living in the world surrounded by people wearing perfume.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: But I know that it's also one of my roles to bring the awareness because if it's affecting me, it means it's affecting other people, even if they are not sensory aware.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by that is these chemicals that are used in fragrances, the volatile organic aromatic compounds, are neurodisruptors, endocrine disruptors, respiratory irritants, cancer-causing, like there's hundreds of different chemicals that are used to create a fragrance.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, back in the old days, it was mostly that we had like essential oils or musks.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: And now, because of production costs and quality control, so many fragrances are created from synthetic chemicals.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And there are hundreds of these chemicals.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: And some of the chemicals have more direct endocrine disrupting activity, especially for male reproductive hormones and sperm health.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: And some of them are less so in that category, but they may still also have effects on the nervous system, the respiratory system, our immune system, and part of creating a healthier world, part of preparing you, your partner, your body for a healthy pregnancy is avoiding these toxins.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't say this lightly at all because I've had the experience of working with patients who were rather limited in their capacity for change when we first start together.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I that is something that I try to be very mindful of is like if we just throw a whole textbook at someone of like, these are all the things you need to do to get pregnant and stay pregnant, that can be really overwhelming.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: But we piece through lifestyle and we look at, okay, well, what does your day-to-day look like?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: What does your diet look like?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: What products are you being exposed to?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: What are your stressors?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: And where can we just start piecing things together in a way that's going to feel very sustainable and manageable?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: And there have been several situations over my 13 years in practice where someone only had the capacity to make one small change.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: And oftentimes when we've pieced through what they have been exposed to and what their life looks like, that change has been to eliminate the fragrance that they're exposed to.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it's one of those things that we do have some level of control over in the terms of our own products, what cleaning products we're using in our home, what body products we're using for ourselves, um, you know, air freshener use, et cetera.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: I know that when we go out in public, we don't have that level of control.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: But in our own homes, this is an area where we can work on.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've had several women, especially, who that's where we began.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: And part of reducing their exposure was also having the conversation with their husbands about their colognes, deodorants, body washes, and body lotions and hair care products to say, hey, like your wife is being exposed to this or your partner's being exposed to this on a daily basis as well.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not great for your sperm quality either.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: So let's pull back there.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't mean that you can't occasionally wear a perfume or cologne that's high quality on special occasions, but let's try to get to a fragrance-free environment in your home and see what happens.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: And for the patients I've had who've had irregular cycles, it has been wild to see a year later the changes, the improvements in their cycles.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then for people who are exposed, even more so, this is a case example several years ago.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: I had a woman who actually worked at a Bath and Body Works.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: And we had been following her PCOS for a few months and not really seeing a whole lot of change, despite her really putting the effort in with diet and exercise.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Her inflammatory markers were just off the charts.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I happened to see her the day after she had had this experience of having a lot of irritation after having taken a bath.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she almost felt like she had a UTI, but then when she went to give a urine sample, there was no evidence of bacteria in the urine, and they just chalked it up to like, oh, must have just been really inflamed.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, let's get more granular.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are you putting in your bath?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: And she listed off the products and the fact that she also worked at Bath and Body Work.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: So she was using a lot of these products.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: She got them for free.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: She was surrounded by it all day.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, hmm, let's just see what would happen if you discontinued all use of these products, like swap over to all things unscented for the time being.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, if you're used to like having the fragrance at work, if you can talk to your manager about just like cutting it from the floor for the next month, let's see how things go.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: We were tracking her C reactive protein level specifically, which is an inflammatory marker.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's not specific, but it is quite sensitive, which means there's a lot of things that can cause inflammation and can cause CRP to pop up.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so we can't necessarily tell you like what's causing the inflammation.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: We can just say, like, well, you're inflamed.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: And in someone who's young and is really making a lot of effort to adhere to an anti-inflammatory diet, that to me was like, yeah, she's got PCOS.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: So there's more, you know, you're more prone to inflammation, but there's like there's something else going on here.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: And sure enough, when she cut all the Bath and Body Works products out of her daily lineup, and her manager did allow them, you know, not to be using like the infusers on the floor at work, she not only felt so much better, had better energy, less brain fog, less headaches.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Her C-reactive protein went from 16 down to one.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think that was a fluke because she's been able to maintain that over the last couple of years, even while a lot of other stressful things in life had happened, even when she's had months where she maybe doesn't eat quite so well for her body.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's pretty remarkable to see in real time how that's affecting someone.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's tricky to know exactly how these types of chemicals are affecting people.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: We don't always catch that on a CRP.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it doesn't have the same impact on one person that it has on another, but that doesn't mean it isn't still having an impact.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: So for the people who are just totally unaffected by clone's perfumes, and they're like, it smells great to me, and it doesn't bother me.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't notice any difference in my energy, my brain function, my you know, propensity towards a migraine, my breathing, like some people won't notice that.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: And like, how lucky for them to have the genetics to be able to withstand that exposure without having any symptoms.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: But we're also living in a time where we essentially have an epidemic of low sperm counts.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: There was a book that was published a few years ago called The Countdown by Dr.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Shanna Swan that goes into the reasons why we have such low sperm counts now compared to 50 years ago.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: So counts are down by about 50%.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm seeing this in my patient population as well, where we have men who are seemingly healthy on the surface.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: They feel pretty good, they have pretty good energy.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: You go to check their sperm, and we're seeing less than 40 million.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: And we're also seeing the labs change their reference ranges in response to this, because these reference ranges are based on a generally healthy population.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not watching the video of this, I am doing air quotes on the generally healthy population part of this because look around.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like we have more chronic health issues in the Western world now than ever before.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, cancer in younger people, autoimmune conditions in younger people.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: And there are, oh, there's so many directions that we could take this, including talking about the social determinants of health, people living in food deserts, uh, essentially like toxic capitalist patriarchal society, of which, you know, it can feel quite helpless to do something about as one person.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: But that's also where we have to honor the fact that we are very powerful in our choices.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can learn about the products you're utilizing and not only make decisions about using things that are healthier for your body, but are they healthier for the environment as well?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: And your dollar is a choice, not just in what you're putting on your body, but in you know, the companies that you're supporting as well.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that's a lot to take in for a little podcast about fertility, but we need to be thinking about how do we create a healthier planet while also figuring out how do we make our homes healthier, how do we make our bodies healthier.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have the privilege to be in a position to choose with your dollar, then I think that it's it's a really important responsibility to own.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: I remember when I first started learning about all of these factors, even though I knew I was chemically sensitive, there were certain smells that I could tolerate and liked.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: I used Pantene Pro V for gosh years, and I would buy it in Costco size because I was, you know, a not wealthy medical student.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I got into my second year of medical school, when we had some of our environmental medicine classes, and we started learning about the dioxins and toluenes and you know, some of these chemicals that I played with in college in chemistry and OCEM lab, but we really started learning about the health effects of them.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: I got really serious about eliminating these.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't have a lot of flexible spending available to me.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: I had like this was the set amount I was working with every month.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: I had about a$40 a week food budget.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: So you can imagine my budget when it came to extracurriculars like my shampoo and body wash and lotions was like I had to be very intentional and systematic in how I approached that.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it took time.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: It took probably a full year of waiting till I ran out of something and then making a swap before I really had a fragrance-free environment for myself.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then it still wasn't perfect because I had, you know, roommate who, bless her if she ever listens, would love her candles, her Yankee candles.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I I would come in and I would just blow that shit out and put the candle away.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so many times she'd be like, Oh, you're so sensitive.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: I forget that you don't that you can't tolerate the candles.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, yeah, and it's not good for any of us.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: To take a little water break there.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very passionate about these things.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'm gonna I'm gonna relay some information here that comes from a study, um, a literature review that was published three years ago, no, four years ago now, um, in 2022, in the Journal of Environmental Health Science and Engineering about the effects of the pollutants that are in perfumes and colognes on the general consumer.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: And some of this might be a little bit triggering because if it's not something that you've looked at before or eliminated before, um, I know for me, I am the type of person who really struggles to learn new information if it means I look back and go, like, well, shit, I was doing that wrong.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: And is that why this and this and this have happened?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I just want to reassure you that like we are all doing our best with the information that we have.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope that you take this new information today and make changes because of it.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: And after I go through some of the things that this review um pulled out, I'm also gonna just do a little bit of coaching on how do we deal with situations in our lives where we are exposed to these chemicals unintentionally, right?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Where we're going into work or we're dealing with family who aren't aware of these things.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we'll talk about that after we go through the review of this um study.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: So this study looked at 30 or this review, uh, this review looked at 37 different studies related to perfumes and clones and the health effects.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: And what jumped out at me that just made my heart ache was the piece in this review about the complications of using perfumes and the neurological effects on the fetus in pregnant mothers.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: That that idea that, like, even if we might be tolerating something well, when you are pregnant, if you're exposed to something ongoing, that could have a neurological effect is just heartbreaking to me.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: So complications of using perfume include neuropathy, neoplasms, such as cancer, effects on the liver, migraine headaches, asthma attacks, mucosal symptoms like watery or red eyes and sneezing, neurological problems like dizziness, convulsions, headache, fainting, imbalance, respiratory, skin, immune system, gastrointestinal, cardiovascular, goodness, just about every system of the body can be impacted.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just in us adults.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, how is this affecting children?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: How is this affecting fetuses?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: How is this affecting the IVF process?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: There is a very strict guideline that every single IVF clinic I know of has.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: About no fragrance in their embryology labs.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: And why is that?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's because there's such an understanding that these fragrances can damage DNA.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: And when they have harvested this very, very precious DNA and they want it to grow and thrive, they are going to control their environment as tightly as possible.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: So the best embryology labs have very, very controlled environments, including strict rules around no fragrance.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: So if that doesn't inspire you to ditch all the fragrances in your life, I don't know what else will.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you tolerate them well, even if you have a scent that you really enjoy and you feel connected to and you know elicits a lot of positive emotion, I hope this inspires you to make some change for yourself or the people around you who might be silently suffering as a result of fragrance and for your future pregnancy and your future children.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: How do we navigate this in the real world?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because when I posted on Instagram about this, I could you not I got dozens of responses about how fragrance impacts people.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna read a couple of them to you guys because so this one.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Me and the kids picked him up and had to drive home with the windows down.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: I wheezed and coughed all night.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: We have washed his clothes five times, aired them in the sun, oxy cleaned them.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: We cannot get the smell out.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing to me that people live like that.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so worried for our flight at the end of the month.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one example.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, another example.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my God, this was one of the reasons I quit my job in an office.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was so bad with all the women and their perfumes and the men with their colognes, always had a headache.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for spreading the word about this.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: I had a problem where someone came into the shop last week and I could smell them from a cough across the shop.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: I had to step outside because their perfume was so strong I was getting a migraine.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: This is not uncommon, guys.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if it's how well documented it is, like what percentage of the population actually struggles with reactions to these products, but it is not uncommon.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it is actually just recently been recognized by the American Medical Association that chemical sensitivity is a thing that needs to be taken seriously in workplaces.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh even as gosh, this would have been could be around 20 years ago.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: My mom was actually a hospital pharmacist and before she became an acupuncturist.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: And she, you know, hospital basements is usually where like the main pharmacy is housed.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then they have like their outpatient unit and their cardiac unit and their ICU unit.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: But when she had an office in the basement, um there was a woman who had really, really strong perfume.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it would be to the extent that my mom would have her eyes would be watering and her nose would be dripping.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: And like, can you imagine trying to work in that environment?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that a hospital didn't take it seriously when someone is like sitting there with literal visible symptoms.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, I digress.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm triggered.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: I can be honest about that.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: But it's it's also, you know, it's it's both validating and heartbreaking to see the response and how many people spoke up about how this has affected them too.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're one of those people and you're like, yeah, yeah, I hear you loud and clear, this is me.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: What the hell do I do in the world having to engage with other people who wear these strong fragrances?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've learned in some ways the hard way how not to respond.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when my husband and I went on a date one time, this is before we were married, this is like pretty fresh into our relationship.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: We'd maybe been dating, I don't know, less than six months.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: I arrived at his apartment um because we were leaving from there, and he opened the door and he stepped out onto his little, you know, the top of the staircase.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I just said, Oh, nope.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever, whatever new cologne you are wearing, I'm not gonna be able to be with all night.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: And he was totally taken aback.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, What?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Yeah, I don't, whatever this new thing you're wearing is, like, I it's probably gonna give me a migraine.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if we're gonna go, you please have to shower.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: And he was pretty taken aback.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think he was pretty offended and weirded out, like, this is not something I'd brought up to before, but like he'd never worn a cologne before in my presence.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, what the fuck are we dealing with?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is gonna be an everyday thing.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, this cannot, this cannot be.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: It was just so shocking to my nervous system.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't recommend handling it like that.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: I would, I would say a lot of people seem to take offense if if they're perceiving it as being told they smell bad, which is how my husband took it at the time.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: He now has a much better understanding of my reactions to these things.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: He tries to be much more conscientious.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like if he changes shampoo, I can smell it from across the house.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: But my suggestion would be leading with this information prior to a family gathering, prior to when you are face to face with someone's perfume and it's punching you right in the center of the forehead, and you have to make a choice about how you're gonna deal with it then.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's so much more challenging.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's not fair, but it's so much more challenging to have to in that moment say, you know what, your your perfume or fragrance or whatever it is that you're wearing is um really causing my body to react somehow.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna have to take myself out of this environment.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's sometimes the only thing you can do.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: But I find that if you lead with the information prior to an engagement, uh one example would be like for me, being able to say to my family, hey guys, I've been dealing with migraines lately.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: My doctor is pretty sure that there's a connection to when I get exposed to certain fragrances, like, you know, it can happen when I walk down the aisle at the grocery store that has all of the fabric softeners and the air fresheners and the candles.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so they're suggesting that I really make my environment as fragrance-free as possible.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just going to ask ahead of time like, if you guys are coming over for Christmas, Easter, whatever's coming up, um, please don't wear your perfumes or colognes while I test this theory out.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that might be a gentler way to not have anyone feel like they're being personally attacked about their fragrance.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in a workplace, it can actually be, it should be easier to be able to make that statement because there are OSHA standards for health safety.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: And now that so many of these chemicals have been identified as respiratory irritants, allergens, and neurotoxic, there's so much more data to be able to work with to say, hey, I've been diagnosed with chemical sensitivity.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: I can't be exposed to perfumes or strong fragrances.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: And those accommodations will have to be honored.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: What I have had to do in the office, um, even though it is part of our policy, like people sign in our new patient policy um paperwork, is you know, when people don't fully have an understanding of what comes through as a fragrance because maybe they can't even smell it.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: We also have a video series that new patients are meant to go through prior to their appointment so that they have an understanding of the expectations and why this particular one is in place.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's for me, but it's also for everyone else who's in this space as well.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: We've spent so much time, effort, and money to use healthy products in this space, including the material that was used over the drywall, the blanking on the word of what that's called.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's not stucco, but it's like the interior drywall mud.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, we had we got different product for that that doesn't include the plasticizer that off-gasses the OCs.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the flooring that we brought into this space is low VOC.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because if we've worked so hard to help people balance their hormones, like I'm not going to bring someone into a space that is going to further dysregulate their hormones by off-gassing toxic materials.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: So what I have done is we have our patient policy that patients sign, we have our new patient video series, and we'll now be posting signage in the office to remind people.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I haven't done it yet, but I am probably I hope I don't have to do this, but I have warned people like if someone comes in and their fragrance is disruptive, um, I will have to reschedule their appointment and charge them for the visit because we can't operate a business in which I am not healthy to operate in.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like a cringy boundary that I'm having to stick to in a way that keeps me and everyone in my space healthy.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it's going to be uncomfortable conversation, I imagine.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope you know if you're having to make uncomfortable conversations, you're not alone in that.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you're exposed in public, I mean, I personally travel with the KN95 masks still, just in case there's someone sitting behind me who's coughing or there's perfume.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like, I don't know, it's one of those little boundaries for me that's like it's not hurting anyone for me to mask.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna do so.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that actually does seem to help significantly if I bump into someone who has a strong perfume.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope that this gives some of you some hope for functioning in the world better if you are chemically sensitive.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: And for those of you who aren't chemically sensitive, knowing that not only can this be having an impact on your health and the health of your future child, but also the health of your fellow humans, I hope matters to you as well.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: And if it doesn't, well, maybe you're in the wrong listening space because I'm drawing a line in the sand that like I only work with humans who really, really care deeply about humanity and the this planet being healthy and life being sacred.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that's that's really important for me to name right now.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: So may you all breathe really clean air these upcoming years.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, may you all drink clean water, be in healthy spaces for you, be able to have really healthy conversations around this.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for some reason, I never thought that this would be such a life challenge.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it feels like a very first world challenge, um, but I know it really can affect people deeply.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: So let's do a little fragrance-free challenge for ourselves, Shall we?
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: If you are to eliminate fragrance over the next few weeks, over the next few months as product runs out and you replace with new product, um, let me know how that feels for you, how that impacts you.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna put some of my favorite products in the show notes.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: Force of Nature is one of them as a cleaning product.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Holy shit, this stuff is amazing.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: I have gotten Sharpie out of my white quartz countertops more times than I care to count because I live with a very creative child who should not have access to Sharpies, but also climbs.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um gosh, it gets it gets odor out of things in such a magnificent way.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um I wish that I had like perfect recommendations for hair care products, but everyone's hair is different.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I would recommend um I'm gonna put in this link in the show notes following my friend Wendy Catherine of Toxin Free Ish.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was on her podcast several years ago to talk about toxins and fertility.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: And she has a great um membership and platform for sharing non-toxic products.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so I'm so appreciative of other people in this space who are doing the work to vet products that claim to be non-toxic because it's also just a field that is so unregulated, which is very frustrating.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: But we've we've got enough change that we as one human can make.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like there is power in this change, it can make a difference for you, your health, your dollar has a say, and you have a say in this.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: So sending you lots of love, clean fresh air, clean water, healthy cycles, healthy ovulation, healthy babies, all the things.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you learned something today, I would love for you to pause, leave a rating, leave a review for the podcast.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: This helps this get into more ears.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: And especially if you are a chemically sensitive person and you want more people to have the awareness of chemical sensitivity, then spread the word far and wide.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you next time.