Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / PRESLEY GERBER DEAD: "REHAB" FOUNDER WEIRD PONCHO, ARRESTS REVEALED

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PRESLEY GERBER DEAD: "REHAB" FOUNDER WEIRD PONCHO, ARRESTS REVEALED · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Tonight, supermodel Cindy Crawford's son, her only son, Presley Gerber, dead.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: The rehab founder flouncing around L.A. in a bizarre poncho
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: as his arrests are revealed. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: The less activity that was in my life, the more
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: medication I found having to be integrated into my life.
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: You know, his intake was hours before his death. What
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: was ingested prior to his arrival? My last drink, though,
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: was on my birthday.
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: So I haven't had alcohol in a couple of months.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: But it's extremely sad because you have a young man
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: who's very vocal about his struggles.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: And now here we are as a result.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: This is Presley Walker Gerber. He was born on July 2nd,
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: and he was born at home in my bed.
• 0:59
  Speaker 5: We're just excited.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: This is Presley's first premiere, right?
• 1:03
  Speaker 6: He's being shy. The police now are investigating the rehab
• 1:07
  Speaker 6: facility where Cindy Crawford's son died. He checked in just
• 1:13
  Speaker 6: a few days ago, clearly needing help, and now he
• 1:16
  Speaker 6: overdosed at the facility. We have heard the 911 calls.
• 1:21
  Speaker 6: where he went into cardiac arrest and then ultimately died
• 1:25
  Speaker 6: on the scene.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: From Engine 1, we're clearing our call. You can dispatch
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: us to.
• 1:30
  Speaker 6: Instead of Engine 7.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: Engine 7, BLS 2, cardiac arrest. Engine 7, BLS 2.
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: BLS 1, overdose.
• 1:36
  Speaker 6: BLS 1.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Engine 1, disregard the stage.
• 1:50
  Speaker 7: Engine 1 copy.
• 1:51
  Speaker 8: Engine 1 BLF 1 continuing and upgraded.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: This young man is dead. Dead after just entering a rehab. Oh,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: excuse me. It's not a rehab. It's a sober living environment,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: including services like a private chef and Egyptian cotton sheets.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Technical legal terms. Screw that. He needed to get well.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: And how are parents supposed to know Where they're sending
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: their child, their son, when it says sober living environment.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Why doesn't it just say Ritz Carlton? That sound from
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: our friends at ET and Naughty But Nice, Rob on TikTok.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: That would be Rob Shooter joining us tonight. Publicist guru
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: to the stars like Naomi Campbell, Sean Combs, knows Cindy
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Crawford and her family members. Now, brand new book by Shooter,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Queen Elizabeth III, The New American House of Windsor. I
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: don't know what that means. But Shooter, I know this.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: These sober living environments. You think you're sending your son
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: to a place he's going to get rehab. Then for
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: $ 15, 000 a month, he dies in just hours. I mean,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: come on. Shooter, he's been on Ibogaine. The crazy psychedelic
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: treatment down in Mexico. It looked to me like they
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: were just, you know, burning sage around him. Yeah, that.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: He has been on ketamine by another doctor. Then he
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: goes into resolutions.
• 3:30
  Speaker 6: You know what?
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Let me just cut the chase. Did you see the
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: founder of resolutions wandering around LA and that bizarre poncho?
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. What does he have? Some takeout? I'm
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: going to hand my son over to him? Cindy Crawford
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: probably had no oh, he's been swimming in all of
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: his spare time. He needs to be checking the policies
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: at his sober living environment shooter.
• 3:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's heartbreaking, Nancy. In defense of the parents here, though,
• 3:58
  Speaker 6: they've tried everything. Everybody that I've spoke to that knew Cindy,
• 4:02
  Speaker 6: knows Randy too, has said they were literally at their
• 4:05
  Speaker 6: wits end. He has tried very, very traditional rehabs. He
• 4:09
  Speaker 6: has tried very, very avant-garde modern rehabs. And clearly... none
• 4:13
  Speaker 6: of them worked. They would have done anything, everything to
• 4:18
  Speaker 6: save their son, including stuff that looks really weird, looks really,
• 4:22
  Speaker 6: really wacky. But as well as the wacky stuff, they
• 4:25
  Speaker 6: did try the traditional routes. He has been in and
• 4:28
  Speaker 6: out of rehab for the last 10 years of his
• 4:31
  Speaker 6: life and nothing they did worked.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: You know, Shader, I'm very curious about as to why
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: you said in defense of Cindy Crawford, because no one
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: is attacking Cindy Crawford or her husband. From my understanding,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: they had tried and tried and tried. And if it
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: were me and I was trying to get my child
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: sober and well, and I saw sober living environment, I
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: would assume they offered more than Egyptian cotton sheets, you know,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: like a doctor. like an addiction specialist, like Drew Pinsky,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: somebody like him, a medical doctor to help him get well?
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: I find that very misleading.
• 5:17
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a fair assumption to make. Cindy Crawford and
• 5:21
  Speaker 6: Randy have been around really one of the darkest businesses
• 5:25
  Speaker 6: I've ever worked in, which is the modeling business. And
• 5:27
  Speaker 6: that's why some people have been pointing a finger at
• 5:31
  Speaker 6: the parents. It's bubbling up, Nancy. Online, it's already started.
• 5:35
  Speaker 6: And now we're starting to see these questions pop up.
• 5:39
  Speaker 6: What happened within that house? And so people are pointing
• 5:42
  Speaker 6: fingers slowly at the family. I know from my sources
• 5:47
  Speaker 6: that this family tried everything in their power, everything in
• 5:51
  Speaker 6: their power to try and save this really troubled young boy.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Why is it always like this, Rob? Why are the
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: victims blamed? They have sent their son to run.
• 6:03
  Speaker 6: I mean, come on.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: The bill's 15 grand a month. You'd think a doctor
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: would be rolled into that, but there wasn't. I mean, Rob,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: in your business, I know you're busy out running around
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: to get the freshest eclair for Sean Diddy Combs at, oh,
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: excuse me, Cheesecake, at 3 a.m. But in my world,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: you pat the addict down. You roll out their pockets,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: in some cases, strip search, because an addiction... It truly
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: is like a demon inside of you. It's literally like
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: a crazy screaming monkey on your back. You can't get
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: rid of it.
• 6:42
  Speaker 6: And I think the reason we blame people is we
• 6:45
  Speaker 6: want an answer. This is a 27-year-old young man who
• 6:48
  Speaker 6: seemed to have every advantage in the world who is dead.
• 6:51
  Speaker 6: And so people are looking for answers and they're starting
• 6:54
  Speaker 6: to really poke and dig deep here. And so that's
• 6:57
  Speaker 6: why fingers are starting to point at the parents. Let
• 7:00
  Speaker 6: me just clarify too, my sources are telling me that
• 7:02
  Speaker 6: the parents did not drop him off at this facility.
• 7:06
  Speaker 6: It was a friend of his. So a friend of
• 7:09
  Speaker 6: his knew that he needed help and drove him there.
• 7:13
  Speaker 6: In fact, Cindy Crawford and Randy Gerber did not even
• 7:17
  Speaker 6: know he had checked into this very alternative, this very
• 7:21
  Speaker 6: different type of facility. What do you mean by that?
• 7:24
  Speaker 6: They had been trying to get him.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Don't speak in code, shooter. Very, excuse me, very alternative.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: What does that mean? It's not legit? Is that what
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: that means?
• 7:36
  Speaker 6: Yes, that's what I'm saying. Cut to the chase, Nancy.
• 7:39
  Speaker 6: That's what I'm saying. This appears to be a very
• 7:42
  Speaker 6: unqualified place, a luxury spa.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Let's take a look at it.
• 7:47
  Speaker 6: Wow.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Look at it.
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: $ 7 million.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: To my understanding, after Sierra Fox joining us, media expert,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: former anchor of Fox 5 DC said, Sierra, thank you
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: for being with us tonight. Did you see that place?
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: When I looked outside, it looks like a multimillion dollar
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: mansion is three houses that all are resolution living. What
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: is it?
• 8:18
  Speaker 5: Well, Nancy, I think there's really just two separate issues here. First,
• 8:21
  Speaker 5: police are investigating Presley's death and trying to determine what
• 8:24
  Speaker 5: substances may have been involved and where they came from.
• 8:27
  Speaker 5: But separately, California health regulators are looking into whether services
• 8:31
  Speaker 5: were being provided at the residence that would have required
• 8:34
  Speaker 5: a state license. And there's an important distinction here. Resolutions
• 8:38
  Speaker 5: Living has been widely described as a rehab, but state
• 8:42
  Speaker 5: officials have said it appears to operate as a sober
• 8:44
  Speaker 5: living or recovery residence, which does not require the same
• 8:48
  Speaker 5: license as a residential substance abuse treatment facility. So I
• 8:51
  Speaker 5: think the obvious question a lot of people have is
• 8:54
  Speaker 5: how does someone die from a suspected overdose while staying
• 8:58
  Speaker 5: somewhere that's supposed to support people But right now we
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: don't have enough information to say what happened inside that
• 9:05
  Speaker 5: home or whether anyone there did anything wrong. So that's
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: what investigators are still trying to figure out.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Joining us now is a very special guest, a longtime
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: colleague and a longtime friend. Dr. Drew Pinsky is joining us.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: He is a board certified physician and addiction medicine specialist.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: He's a star of Ask Dr. Drew on YouTube. x
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: rumble facebook it goes on and on and author of
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: when painkillers become dangerous author of the mirror effect author
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: of cracked life on the edge in a rehab clinic
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: dr drew it's so great to have you with us
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: tonight you know your knowledge in this area is vastly
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: beyond my comprehension as a trial lawyer so let me
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: just start with an open-ended question. That's what you do
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: when you have an expert that knows more than you do.
• 10:06
  Speaker 6: Dr.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Drew, I'm just stunned that this young man could die
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: in a rehab that's supposed to be taking care of
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: him and getting him well of all places, like maybe
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: in his car, maybe at home, maybe in some alleyway,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: maybe at a party where there's this big bowl full
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: of drugs and pills, but in the rehab?
• 10:32
  Speaker 9: Yeah, people are stunned when that happens. It does happen
• 10:38
  Speaker 9: because there are addicts in rehab, and addicts will frequently
• 10:41
  Speaker 9: find uncanny ways to smuggle in substances and In fact,
• 10:47
  Speaker 9: sometimes I've seen situations where the very family members that
• 10:50
  Speaker 9: bring them in smuggle the drugs in that they then
• 10:53
  Speaker 9: overdose on. The problem is that the monitoring appears not
• 10:58
  Speaker 9: to have been adequate to have responded to the overdose.
• 11:01
  Speaker 9: That's the part that's really a problem here. And that
• 11:04
  Speaker 9: is a function of a longstanding issue in California in particular,
• 11:09
  Speaker 9: where residential and even more so sober living environments are
• 11:13
  Speaker 9: not regulated at all. And I lived through the genesis
• 11:18
  Speaker 9: of all this back in the 1980s. There was a
• 11:20
  Speaker 9: huge conflict between the recovering community and the psychiatric community,
• 11:25
  Speaker 9: and a lobby group got laws passed in California that
• 11:28
  Speaker 9: would not allow doctors in or around residential, well, and particularly, again,
• 11:35
  Speaker 9: sober living environments. So they became just these sort of
• 11:39
  Speaker 9: warehouses where there was a house mother, and sometimes nearby
• 11:44
  Speaker 9: there could be professional services working. But it is not
• 11:48
  Speaker 9: a medically managed environment. And the reality is back when
• 11:52
  Speaker 9: I ran a drug treatment center for 20 years, patients
• 11:55
  Speaker 9: like him would be in a psychiatric hospital. And that
• 11:59
  Speaker 9: just doesn't happen anymore. And a big share of that
• 12:02
  Speaker 9: is not just the laws here in California, but the
• 12:05
  Speaker 9: insurance companies won't allow it.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know what you're even saying, okay? I'm a
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: criminal trial lawyer, a prosecutor. Everything has to be probative
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: or I don't care about it. Number one, what are
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: you saying about insurance companies? And what are you saying
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: about doctors can't be at a, quote, sober living environment?
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: And what is a sober living environment versus rehab? Because
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: this young man had so much in his system. He
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: needed to dry out and try to get well instead
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: of going to basically the Ritz restaurant. Carlton equivalent of
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: sober living. What is sober living environment?
• 12:49
  Speaker 9: Sober living is just a house where addicts live and
• 12:54
  Speaker 9: support one another's recovery, usually with one individual who's also
• 12:58
  Speaker 9: a recovering person supervising the sort of environment in which
• 13:03
  Speaker 9: people get various sorts of vocational rehab, back to work,
• 13:09
  Speaker 9: 12-step support. Now, this particular facility where he was, I think,
• 13:16
  Speaker 9: was more of a residential-type facility. And so there's hospital,
• 13:21
  Speaker 9: there's medical and psychiatric hospital, there's residential, and then there's
• 13:25
  Speaker 9: sober living. And residential does have a higher level of
• 13:28
  Speaker 9: services and various trained professionals around, but again, doctors are
• 13:32
  Speaker 9: not allowed to practice there.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, see... I would think you would have to have
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: a doctor to help. I mean, you can't just beat addiction.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: It's compelling. It's an overwhelming desire that you can't control.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: And so everybody's supposed to sit in a circle and say,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to do drugs again, and then go
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: to their rooms. I mean, to me, this whole sober
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: living environment sounds like A king-size bed with the fancy
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Egyptian cotton sheets, a pool and a hot tub. That's
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: what it is? And you think he's going to get
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: well and they claim?
• 14:11
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 14:12
  Speaker 9: You're getting at another issue, which is really important, which
• 14:14
  Speaker 9: is that the treatment of drug addiction requires insane amounts
• 14:20
  Speaker 9: of manpower. and all sorts of professional services, many of which, again,
• 14:24
  Speaker 9: in California, are not allowed to reach the patient, which
• 14:27
  Speaker 9: is a whole giant topic in and of itself. But yes,
• 14:31
  Speaker 9: it's a manpower issue. There has to be a dedicated
• 14:35
  Speaker 9: staff whose calling is to treat these people because it's
• 14:40
  Speaker 9: a terrible business. There's no way you could pay the
• 14:43
  Speaker 9: staff and the personnel enough to meet the needs of
• 14:47
  Speaker 9: the addict patient. So if they're making money, it's not
• 14:49
  Speaker 9: going to be a good treatment. That's my fundamental position.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: That is a sober living environment, as you were saying. Okay,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: you got a pool, you got a hot tub, you
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: got the fancy sheets, you got the gourmet food. Where?
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Luxury home. Luxury home, my rear end. Luxury home.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: They need him to get well. And here's the deal, Dr.
• 15:13
  Speaker 10: Drew.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Here I am, a veteran trial lawyer. I've dealt with,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: I can't tell you how many HIV, habitual violators that
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: have DUI, DUI, DUI until somebody's dead over and over
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: and over. We don't know about it and the public
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: doesn't know about it. How is a supermodel, Cindy Crawford,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: supposed to know that a sober living environment is not
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: helping her son. How's she supposed to know that? Because
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: if you say sober living environment, it sounds like they're
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: going to get him well.
• 15:47
  Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah. And again, you're pointing out the luxury environment.
• 15:54
  Speaker 9: He should have been up the street in North Hollywood
• 15:56
  Speaker 9: at Cry Help or at Impact House in Pasadena, which
• 15:59
  Speaker 9: are bare bones, sit your ass down, listen to what
• 16:03
  Speaker 9: the staff is telling you, get sober. But some of
• 16:06
  Speaker 9: the videos that this poor guy, look, he got a
• 16:09
  Speaker 9: lot of care. And some of it, to my eye,
• 16:11
  Speaker 9: looked really quite good. So it's not like they weren't trying.
• 16:14
  Speaker 9: It wasn't like he didn't get good care. But some
• 16:16
  Speaker 9: of the videos he put out in the weeks and
• 16:19
  Speaker 9: months prior to his demise were suggests that he was
• 16:22
  Speaker 9: calling the shots on his care. He was going down
• 16:25
  Speaker 9: to Mexico and getting ibogaine. He was managing his own benzodiazepines.
• 16:30
  Speaker 9: When the addict manages the care, determines where they're going,
• 16:34
  Speaker 9: when they're going, what they're using, their brain is diseased.
• 16:38
  Speaker 9: And when the addict is in any way in charge
• 16:40
  Speaker 9: of the care, the outcomes are always bad. Now, how
• 16:44
  Speaker 9: they got to that point where he was calling the shots,
• 16:46
  Speaker 9: I don't know.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Look at this video. This is from his Insta. Ibogaine,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: I said the other day, why don't you just wave
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: a chicken claw over his head? What is this? What
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: are they? What is that? Is she a shaman? What
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: is she?
• 17:04
  Speaker 9: I don't know. I don't know what that is. I
• 17:06
  Speaker 9: think it's sage or something. But, you know, the Ibogaine
• 17:09
  Speaker 9: thing is very controversial.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Did you just say sage? Did you just say sage? Sage,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: like you're going to burn sage around him and he's
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: going to get well? Actually, that is what that looks like.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Didn't help, did it? What's Ibogaine?
• 17:29
  Speaker 9: Ibogaine is a very powerful hallucinogenic. It's ayahuasca, Ibogaine. People
• 17:35
  Speaker 9: use it. I'm very concerned about it. It does help
• 17:38
  Speaker 9: people with their drive to use opiates for about three
• 17:42
  Speaker 9: to six months. And then in my experience, virtually 100%
• 17:44
  Speaker 9: of people go back. So I'm not an enthusiast for that.
• 17:49
  Speaker 9: That's one of the many things he tried. And he, again,
• 17:53
  Speaker 9: as I said, had some care that was quite good
• 17:55
  Speaker 9: along the way. And why it got so sideways, it's
• 17:59
  Speaker 9: hard to say. You know, the other thing, Nancy, is
• 18:01
  Speaker 9: the family's got to do their piece. And I hope
• 18:04
  Speaker 9: they did. And some of it may be, you know,
• 18:07
  Speaker 9: being very firm with boundaries with him. And maybe that's
• 18:10
  Speaker 9: how he ended up calling some of the shots. And
• 18:12
  Speaker 9: it ended up being the medical system, which is usually
• 18:15
  Speaker 9: what What takes addicts out and doesn't do them as
• 18:19
  Speaker 9: much good as we should. But again, as I said
• 18:23
  Speaker 9: at the beginning, so much of that in California in
• 18:26
  Speaker 9: particular is the result of the laws here and the
• 18:30
  Speaker 9: insurance companies.
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: I stayed at that facility resolutions around four or five
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: years ago. I went from inpatient rehab to resolutions, which
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: is a sober living. It's not a rehab. A lot
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: of people are saying he passed away in rehab. And
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: that's not rehab, there's a difference between rehab and sober living.
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: Sober living is like a transitional phase that usually going
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: from inpatient rehab to more lax but semi-structured housing. It's
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: like halfway transitioning to living on your own with a
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: lot less structure and support. I stayed there for two
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: months and there's a lot of people thinking, like, oh
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: my god, how could there be so little oversight in
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: such a fancy rehab, sober living? And the truth is,
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: is that this happens all the time. Unfortunately, this happens
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: all the time, and there is only so much a
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: facility can do in prohibiting drugs or, you know, substances
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: from getting in and out of these facilities. I mean,
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: some places strip search you, and even that's not enough.
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: Sometimes there is gross negligence on the facilities part. But
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: to be honest, you know, I don't know the exact
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: details of what happened, you know, at resolutions just a
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: few days ago. But when I was there, my bags
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: were checked, my person was not checked, but that's standard.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: That is broke back Contessa on TikTok.
• 20:05
  Speaker 8: Dr.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: Drew, Addicts that I've encountered, and that would be literally
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: thousands of them, they are not going to willingly turn
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: out their pockets and give you their dope. So this
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: sounds like, again, the Ritz, where they take your bags
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: and just let you walk off with dope in your pocket.
• 20:25
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 20:26
  Speaker 9: No, listen, you heard what he said. It's not legally
• 20:29
  Speaker 9: able to check the person. Now, in a psychiatric hospital,
• 20:33
  Speaker 9: you can check the person very carefully, and that is
• 20:36
  Speaker 9: absolutely required. When somebody goes into treatment, the first thing
• 20:40
  Speaker 9: they do, or the last thing they do, is they
• 20:43
  Speaker 9: load up. They get on a last hurrah. They almost
• 20:47
  Speaker 9: always do that. And those doses that they take at
• 20:50
  Speaker 9: the end there can be quite dangerous. And it's also,
• 20:53
  Speaker 9: as a part of that, They cram stuff in their socks,
• 20:56
  Speaker 9: in their underwear, in body parts. That's part of the deal.
• 21:01
  Speaker 9: So if you're not going to monitor them for that rehab,
• 21:04
  Speaker 9: for that overdose, you sure as heck better check them
• 21:08
  Speaker 9: better on their body for the substances somehow. But I
• 21:13
  Speaker 9: can't tell you, Nancy, the laws in this state, it's
• 21:16
  Speaker 9: why we have homelessness. The laws in this state are
• 21:19
  Speaker 9: so messed up. You can't even imagine it. People, doctors,
• 21:23
  Speaker 9: nurses can't treat addicts. We're not allowed to in multiple environments.
• 21:29
  Speaker 9: And if the patient doesn't say, hey, I want to
• 21:32
  Speaker 9: get well right now and stay well, which never happens,
• 21:35
  Speaker 9: as you said, you're not allowed anywhere near them.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Dr. Drew, I'm questioning the decision by the, quote, sober
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: living environment. He had been on ketamine. to help him
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: get straight. He had, I mean, ketamine, Matthew Perry, dead,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: hot tub. He had had the Abagene, I believe I'm
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: pronouncing it correctly, treatment, I believe, in Mexico, not in
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: the U.S. that I know of. It's a psychedelic treatment
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: where you go on a trip. You know, Dr. Drew,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: I actually had a friend, a very dear friend in
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: the cable industry, die perfectly sane, Great businessman, super smart,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: and he was having a similar treatment to deal with
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: trauma as a child. I don't understand it, but he
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: ends up dead in the San Francisco Bay, Dr.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Drew.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: So I'm totally against any psychedelic treatments. But to here
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: and now, with his history of ketamine attempts at getting
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: straight of Abigene, Didn't they know? This guy has been
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: to hell and back. You don't just let him go
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: to his room to die. You're paying 15 grand to die?
• 22:57
  Speaker 9: Listen, the outrage is appropriate. And he had the usual
• 23:06
  Speaker 9: services that you get at that level of care. Was
• 23:11
  Speaker 9: he treated in other environments? You know, there was another issue, unfortunately.
• 23:15
  Speaker 9: with the owners of this program, a psychologist couple. He
• 23:20
  Speaker 9: is a recovering meth addict, allegedly, and has a very
• 23:24
  Speaker 9: substantial legal history himself. Now, I like the idea that
• 23:29
  Speaker 9: a recovering person is running these programs. They tend to
• 23:31
  Speaker 9: work better that way. But you don't know. You don't
• 23:35
  Speaker 9: know who these people are.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: Did you see him walking around L.A. in a bizarre poncho? Like,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: I'm going to hand my kid over to a guy
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: walking around in a weird poncho. Around L.A. with a
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: meth history? That's just me. I want to see a
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: doctor in a doctor's coat with a steth, right?
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: That's just me. But back to you. No poncho.
• 23:56
  Speaker 9: There is almost nowhere in California that I can refer
• 23:59
  Speaker 9: a patient to for drug treatment. Just know that. Almost nowhere.
• 24:03
  Speaker 9: Betty Ford still manages to do a good job. Meadows
• 24:05
  Speaker 9: has some things here. But other than that, I send
• 24:08
  Speaker 9: people out of state almost without exception. So, so much
• 24:13
  Speaker 9: of this is not a function of that program or
• 24:16
  Speaker 9: that kid or the doctors that were attempting to help
• 24:18
  Speaker 9: him as an outpatient, but the state, the sorry state
• 24:23
  Speaker 9: of sober living and even residential care in California. The
• 24:28
  Speaker 9: word rehab has been adulterated. Let's call it what it
• 24:31
  Speaker 9: should be. Psychiatric hospitalization. That's what it should be. And
• 24:36
  Speaker 9: it just has deteriorated dramatically. largely because of insurance resources
• 24:40
  Speaker 9: and hospitals' inability to deliver those cares, but secondarily because
• 24:44
  Speaker 9: of lobby groups in Sacramento and do-gooders that are engaged
• 24:50
  Speaker 9: in negligent manslaughter throughout the state. Not just this one
• 24:54
  Speaker 9: little example. This is a very tragic example. But on
• 24:58
  Speaker 9: the streets here in California, six to eight die a day.
• 25:00
  Speaker 9: Not California. Los Angeles. Just Los Angeles. It is a
• 25:05
  Speaker 9: mess here. And it is a function of our government
• 25:10
  Speaker 9: and how we allow these organizations to operate and then
• 25:14
  Speaker 9: how the insurance companies themselves are allowed to operate.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: That's not helping Cindy Crawford tonight. That ain't helping, Cindy Crawford.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: And you were talking about usual services that are offered
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: at sober living environments, and I'm reading verbatim. That would
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: include fitness area, chef-prepared meals, recreational amenities. How in the
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: H-E-double-L is that going to get him straight and alive?
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Who cares? That means nothing to me, and now he's dead.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: He's been cremated, Dr.
• 25:49
  Speaker 10: Drew.
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 25:51
  Speaker 10: Yep.
• 25:51
  Speaker 9: Listen, as I said, if you're making money doing drug treatment,
• 25:55
  Speaker 9: the overwhelming probability is it's not good care. That's just
• 26:00
  Speaker 9: the way it is. That is just a go to
• 26:02
  Speaker 9: cry help, go to impact. There are programs here that
• 26:05
  Speaker 9: are bare bones. People get sober. They're not luxury environments
• 26:09
  Speaker 9: like that. Trust me. And that's where people actually get sober. Meanwhile,
• 26:15
  Speaker 9: these providers are making money hand over fist, Drew.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: It's all about the money.
• 26:22
  Speaker 9: Yeah, that's a problem.
• 26:27
  Speaker 7: It is definitely a risky ethical choice to prescribe someone
• 26:32
  Speaker 7: who is actively involved so involved in addiction, another addictive substance,
• 26:38
  Speaker 7: particularly when they're not in a controlled setting, which is
• 26:41
  Speaker 7: all the more reason why it is very odd to
• 26:43
  Speaker 7: me that he was even put into a sober living
• 26:45
  Speaker 7: in the first place. The number one thing that jumps
• 26:48
  Speaker 7: out to me as being the most unethical and wrong
• 26:50
  Speaker 7: about this story being that he came into a sober
• 26:53
  Speaker 7: living facility high and died the next day. He should
• 26:57
  Speaker 7: never have been there in the first place. He should
• 26:59
  Speaker 7: have been transferred immediately to a hospital where he could
• 27:02
  Speaker 7: detox and get well.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: That is Michael Bozzillo, MFT on TikTok, to Dr. Kendall
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Crowns joining us. You know him well. He is the
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: chief medical examiner, Tarrant County, star of Mayhem in the Morgue.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: He is an esteemed lecturer at Burnett School of Medicine
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: at TCU.
• 27:24
  Speaker 6: Dr.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns has handled so many ODs, he probably can't
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: even count them.
• 27:33
  Speaker 6: Dr.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Kendall-Crowns, explain what everyone is talking about, that if he
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: came in high, he should not have been allowed to
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: go to his room like a fifth grader. Why?
• 27:45
  Speaker 10: Well, the fact that he's already intoxicated or high when
• 27:50
  Speaker 10: he walks in, it means he's inebriated and you don't
• 27:54
  Speaker 10: know what necessarily he's taken. He could have a combination
• 27:57
  Speaker 10: of alcohol and other drugs or a combination of multiple
• 28:00
  Speaker 10: other and is slowly succumbing to the effects of these
• 28:05
  Speaker 10: drugs and could, if not being monitored, actually end up dead,
• 28:09
  Speaker 10: which is what happened in this case. Just because he's
• 28:12
  Speaker 10: high doesn't mean he's coming down from the drug. He
• 28:14
  Speaker 10: can still have an incident of passing out, a cardiac
• 28:18
  Speaker 10: arrhythmia or a regular heartbeat. It's all dependent on what
• 28:21
  Speaker 10: he took before he walked through the door. Plus, did
• 28:24
  Speaker 10: he have any drugs on him, tucked away somewhere? and
• 28:28
  Speaker 10: then took him after he got in the facility and
• 28:31
  Speaker 10: then pushed him over the edge. Really, if someone is
• 28:34
  Speaker 10: already compromised when they walk in, they should be monitored
• 28:37
  Speaker 10: until they are out of that state.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: What do you mean by that, Dr. Kendall-Crowns? He should
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: have been monitored. I mean, at the least. I would
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: think that they would, at the least, check his pockets,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: check anywhere he could be stashing drugs, and that includes
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: body crevices, to make sure because... when you're under the
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: influence or you're an addict, you cannot control yourself.
• 29:01
  Speaker 10: I mean, that's correct. They should check every area, including
• 29:07
  Speaker 10: the rectal, oral, anywhere drugs could be tucked in because
• 29:12
  Speaker 10: you don't know what he's coming in with. Often in
• 29:14
  Speaker 10: these rehab facilities, that is the case that they brought
• 29:17
  Speaker 10: something in with them and then they take it shortly
• 29:20
  Speaker 10: after arrival and end up overdosing. We do see this
• 29:23
  Speaker 10: Not all the time, but fairly often where someone dies
• 29:27
  Speaker 10: in rehab, either because they got drugs from a friend
• 29:30
  Speaker 10: or they brought it in with them.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: In addition to Chief Medical Examiner in Tarrant County, Dr.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns, Dr. Bethany Marshall is joining us. us. You
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: can see Bethany on Hulu, Peacock, Bravo. She's the star
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: of a hit new podcast, On the Couch with Dr.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall. And find her at drbethanymarshall.com. Dr. Bethany, weigh in.
• 29:54
  Speaker 8: These sober living facilities do not have clinical treatment, psychiatrists,
• 29:59
  Speaker 8: medical services, nothing, not even group therapy, Nancy. And the
• 30:03
  Speaker 8: reason for that, as the anchor just mentioned, if they
• 30:07
  Speaker 8: have these kinds of services, then they have to get licensed.
• 30:11
  Speaker 8: So not having treatment services allows them to fly beneath
• 30:15
  Speaker 8: the radar. However, they do search patients before they come
• 30:19
  Speaker 8: in and they go through all of their belongings, Nancy,
• 30:22
  Speaker 8: but they do not take their underwear off. So people
• 30:26
  Speaker 8: who admit that even if they're high, they can take
• 30:32
  Speaker 8: drugs with them. And also people who are, you know,
• 30:36
  Speaker 8: coming down from drug abuse, they're very crafty in terms
• 30:39
  Speaker 8: of getting drugs. So often they'll have a family, a
• 30:42
  Speaker 8: friend or somebody, a dealer come and, you know, hide
• 30:45
  Speaker 8: drugs under a rock outside the facility. And then they'll
• 30:48
  Speaker 8: say to somebody in the house, oh, hey, I need
• 30:51
  Speaker 8: to go for a walk. So it's very easy to
• 30:54
  Speaker 8: procure drugs once you are in this very loose environment. Nancy,
• 31:01
  Speaker 8: it is so important to not go into one of
• 31:05
  Speaker 8: these facilities until and unless you have had a medical detox.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: Dr. Bethany, have you seen the founder wandering around LA
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: wearing a bizarre poncho?
• 31:19
  Speaker 10: Him.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Like, where's the doctor's outfit? Where's the stethoscope? Where's the clipboard?
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: What What is that? And I'm learning tonight he has arrest.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: He's got an arrest record for Pete's sake. What is this?
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: I'm going to hand my son. There's no way that
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Cindy Crawford and her husband, Randy Gerber, knew what was
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: happening because this is sober living environment. What is that?
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: And this guy, is he in charge? of letting Presley
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Gerber just walk in while he was potentially high and
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: leave him alone to his own devices. Now he's dead.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: What's happening, Dr. Bethany?
• 32:02
  Speaker 8: You know, Nancy, addiction treatment is a very sleazy business.
• 32:07
  Speaker 8: I hate to say it, even though I have patients
• 32:09
  Speaker 8: suffering from addiction, I try to refer them out for services.
• 32:13
  Speaker 8: But even Betty Ford, Nancy, in their group therapy sessions,
• 32:17
  Speaker 8: they do not have licensed therapists. They have people who
• 32:21
  Speaker 8: are getting their hours. People are in training. These rehab
• 32:25
  Speaker 8: facilities and sober living facilities, they try to cut costs
• 32:29
  Speaker 8: wherever they can. It's kind of like snake oil, Nancy.
• 32:33
  Speaker 8: Big promises, low delivery. And this guy walking around with
• 32:38
  Speaker 8: this weird poncho, that's just plain disrespectful. Somebody has died
• 32:43
  Speaker 8: in his facility and he's walking around looking like that,
• 32:47
  Speaker 8: knowing he's going to be photographed. Nancy, I'm not surprised
• 32:51
  Speaker 8: that somebody who has a rap sheet has opened a
• 32:54
  Speaker 8: facility like this because these facilities.
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: Are not monitored. It's a perfect, perfect business for somebody
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: like that.
• 33:02
  Speaker 11: Those who are criticizing how cushy this place was and
• 33:06
  Speaker 11: they would have been better served in a more medical-looking facility,
• 33:12
  Speaker 11: the buy-in is the biggest part of healing, of getting better.
• 33:16
  Speaker 11: If you don't have your child's buy-in, to where they're
• 33:19
  Speaker 11: going and the treatment, it's not going to work.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: From Molly Dane Media on TikTok. Okay. Joining us now
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: is a veteran trial attorney, Franz Borghardt, criminal defense attorney,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: founder of Borghardt Law Firm, former prosecutor. Franz, come on.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: This guy, the one walking around in the poncho, has
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: not been charged. He's not been named a suspect or
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: a POI, person of interest. But the wolves have got
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: to be circling because this young man goes in for
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: help and he dies within 24 hours.
• 34:01
  Speaker 12: So what's unclear to me, Nancy, is we've been throwing
• 34:05
  Speaker 12: the term sober living facility around, but then it also
• 34:09
  Speaker 12: sounds like a rehab facility. I'm not clear which it is.
• 34:12
  Speaker 12: And that may be a defense to him is, hey, look,
• 34:14
  Speaker 12: I wasn't about the rehab world. I was about sober living.
• 34:19
  Speaker 6: I spoke to my sources. They tell me the family
• 34:23
  Speaker 6: is just devastated. Cindy is inconsolable, but also has a
• 34:29
  Speaker 6: lot of questions. How could drugs get inside a secure facility?
• 34:35
  Speaker 6: This facility, this place was built to help people. I
• 34:41
  Speaker 6: did speak to somebody who is a former patient of
• 34:45
  Speaker 6: the very same facility, organisation, And they told me that
• 34:51
  Speaker 6: drugs were available inside the rehab. This sounds shocking. However,
• 34:57
  Speaker 6: my sources tell me it's not that unusual.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: That's Rob Sheeter, author of a brand new book, Climbing
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: the Charts, Queen Elizabeth III, the new American House of Windsor,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: still standing by that claim that people that have been
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: in this facility before had access to drugs.
• 35:16
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 35:17
  Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely, Nancy.
• 35:18
  Speaker 10: Absolutely.
• 35:19
  Speaker 6: I spoke to somebody shortly after we found out about
• 35:22
  Speaker 6: this death. I'd heard about this facility. It is pretty
• 35:26
  Speaker 6: well known in California. A lot of celebrities have stayed there.
• 35:32
  Speaker 6: A lot of people over the years have been in
• 35:34
  Speaker 6: and out of this place. And it's not that unusual.
• 35:37
  Speaker 6: There are many, many facilities that look like this, that
• 35:40
  Speaker 6: sound like this, that are making a lot of money,
• 35:42
  Speaker 6: particularly in Malibu, particularly in California. And I spoke to
• 35:47
  Speaker 6: a former should I use the word patient? I don't
• 35:49
  Speaker 6: know if it's a patient or a client, but I
• 35:51
  Speaker 6: spoke to somebody who had stayed there and they said
• 35:54
  Speaker 6: it was a lovely place to stay and they had
• 35:56
  Speaker 6: great food and they certainly were in the lap of luxury,
• 35:59
  Speaker 6: but they got absolutely no treatment. And maybe even more concerning,
• 36:04
  Speaker 6: there were drugs inside this place.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Rob Shooter, I know you've dealt with a lot of celebrities,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: but I don't care about the quote, great food. This
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: guy's dead. That can't be undone. It can't be fixed. Now,
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: I know, Rob Shooter, that they bill themselves as a sober,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: living environment. And they can argue, hey, I never said
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: I was a rehab. I never said we had medical doctors.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: But what about the fact that, according to claims... there
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: are drugs within the sober living environment and he was
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: not physically searched according to reports. I don't care how
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: they bill themselves, even I, a trial lawyer, know that's
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: not okay, if true.
• 36:59
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's definitely something that is gonna be investigated and
• 37:03
  Speaker 6: it should be investigated. However, you are, people do take
• 37:07
  Speaker 6: illegal drugs into hotels, into apartments, into people's homes. And
• 37:11
  Speaker 6: this is what this place is basically billing itself as,
• 37:14
  Speaker 6: a place to have a little bit of a time out.
• 37:17
  Speaker 6: They would argue they never, ever said they were a
• 37:20
  Speaker 6: wrap facility. You know what?
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: Why don't I just put you in the corner for
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: a minute, Rob Sheeter, speaking of time out. To Dave Mack,
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter, does the founder have a wrap sheet?
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: He does. He has a massive wrap sheet. Let me
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: hit you with this. He was arrested. He was actually
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: found asleep in his car in an area known for
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: drug trafficking, drug buying outside of Oakland, California, with a
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: 15 year old girl in the car with him.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: He's passed.
• 37:56
  Speaker 10: Out.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: That's me backing up. Did you say a 15 year
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: old girl?
• 38:00
  Speaker 11: Yep.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Added that in there because when the police knock on
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: the window, he's asleep. The girl's awake. They talk to
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: her first and she's like, yeah, I'm on drugs.
• 38:09
  Speaker 10: I'm on meth.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: So is he.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: They wake him up and they find out, yeah, he's
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: got meth, a glass meth pipe, marijuana. And by the way,
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: a 357. OK, he's got a firearm with ammunition now.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: He is able to, because of the way the drug
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: charges work in L.A. or in California, rather, he's able
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: to plead no contest to this charge and is given
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: 36 months probation. But, Nancy, less than 30 days after
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: getting that probation? Dude gets arrested again. Same thing. He's
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: not passed out this time, but he tries to sell
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: meth to an undercover officer. That gets him arrested the
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: second time. Now, this is the arrest he claims. Dr.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: Reza Nababi claims that that's when he got sober. It
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: was the second arrest. It's what he claims. But the
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: guy has a massive rap sheet when you start looking
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: at methamphetamine, 15-year-old girls passed out in a drug place
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: with a gun.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: Okay. I'm just trying to absorb all of that. You know, Shooter,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: I can understand someone that creates or founds a sober
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: living environment or rehab may have a history. And maybe
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: that drove them to get clean and try to help
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: other people. But the claim that he was, did I
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: hear Dave Mack correctly, that he tried to sell? to
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: an undercover agent? I think that's what I heard. That's
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: not an addict trying to get clean. That's a felony.
• 39:40
  Speaker 6: It is Nancy. This, this is really, really alarming. And
• 39:45
  Speaker 6: I'm told that this is just the tip of the iceberg.
• 39:47
  Speaker 6: We're going to find out a lot more information. about
• 39:50
  Speaker 6: this individual. However, let me be clear here. Often rehab facilities,
• 39:56
  Speaker 6: treatment facilities are run, are founded by people who have
• 40:01
  Speaker 6: had troubles in their past and want to help set
• 40:04
  Speaker 6: that straight.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: I just said that. I just said that. And you're
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: acting like you're having an original thought. I just said that.
• 40:13
  Speaker 10: I'm agreeing with you.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: I'm putting you back in time out. You need to
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: think about what you just said.
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: Now, again, no one has been charged and no one
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: has been named a person of interest. But to Dr.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns, Dr. Crowns, could you just explain why an
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: addict cannot control what they're doing? I am not condoning it.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: I'm saying that's what addicts experience. They can't stop themselves.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Once you get on it, you can't get off.
• 40:46
  Speaker 10: You're correct. It is very difficult to wean yourself from
• 40:49
  Speaker 10: a drug that you're dependent on or other addictive behaviors.
• 40:54
  Speaker 10: It is kind of a mental problem that takes therapy
• 40:58
  Speaker 10: and even medication and a number of other things to
• 41:02
  Speaker 10: get past. I actually think Dr. Bethany Marshall would probably
• 41:05
  Speaker 10: be better at explaining this than me. But again, addiction
• 41:10
  Speaker 10: is a definite problem that people struggle with constantly. and
• 41:14
  Speaker 10: often end up sadly how this individual ended up dying.
• 41:19
  Speaker 6: Dr.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: Bethany, what about it?
• 41:22
  Speaker 8: Because these substances hijacked the dopaminergic.
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: Aspects of the brain.
• 41:28
  Speaker 8: That was what helped our ancient ancestors to survive. It
• 41:33
  Speaker 8: drove us towards action. So this part of the brain
• 41:36
  Speaker 8: is hardwired in terms of survival. Also, a lot of
• 41:40
  Speaker 8: these patients have trauma. We know Presley Gerber went out
• 41:43
  Speaker 8: into the modeling world at a young age, which could
• 41:46
  Speaker 8: be traumatic for.
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: A 14 or 15 year old.
• 41:48
  Speaker 8: These substances are highly habit forming. And then once somebody
• 41:52
  Speaker 8: gets addicted, the addiction is reinforced by their environment.
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: So then there's a feedback loop between them and everyone
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: around them.
• 42:02
  Speaker 8: That supports the addiction, not his loving family, of course,
• 42:05
  Speaker 8: but people who are also addictive. And that's why in
• 42:08
  Speaker 8: the program, they tell people in recovery to stay away
• 42:12
  Speaker 8: from places, people, and things that made you use because
• 42:17
  Speaker 8: you have to completely train yourself to not have that
• 42:21
  Speaker 8: habit anymore.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: To Rob Shooter, PR guru to the stars and author
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: of the new book, Queen Elizabeth III, The New American
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: House of Windsor. Rob, I'm trying to figure out how
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: the family, how Gerber's family is doing managing all of
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: this because they're dealing with the death of their only son,
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: their only brother. They opposed him going into this sober
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: living environment. I don't know why. Maybe they thought that
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: it wouldn't work because it's not a real rehab. There
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: are no doctors working there. They don't have medical doctors there.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: So they're doing all of that and in a fishbowl,
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: and now people are starting to blame them. Yeah, yeah.
• 43:07
  Speaker 6: It's heartbreaking. They're absolutely devastated. They're inconsolable. We have seen
• 43:15
  Speaker 6: that Randy, his father, went back to Presley's home just
• 43:20
  Speaker 6: a few days ago. I can only imagine what that
• 43:22
  Speaker 6: must be like, turning up at the house and your
• 43:26
  Speaker 6: son no longer being there. What I'm hearing is it's
• 43:29
  Speaker 6: his sister who is really, really struggling the most. They
• 43:33
  Speaker 6: were best friends. They felt that they had been through
• 43:37
  Speaker 6: this extraordinary life together. There's barely a time that either
• 43:41
  Speaker 6: one of them were around without the other. They're that
• 43:43
  Speaker 6: close in age. And so what I'm hearing from my
• 43:47
  Speaker 6: family sources here is just a really, really devastating, sad
• 43:53
  Speaker 6: picture being painted of a family who are trying to
• 43:57
  Speaker 6: figure this out. And now their grief is still there.
• 44:00
  Speaker 6: They've not moved past it, but they are asking. Could
• 44:04
  Speaker 6: we have done anything different? And I think a lot
• 44:06
  Speaker 6: of parents ask that. A lot of parents who have
• 44:09
  Speaker 6: been through this sort of pain wonder, is there something different?
• 44:13
  Speaker 6: Am I to blame for this? And as they're dealing
• 44:17
  Speaker 6: with that, people are starting to point fingers.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about what
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: happened to this young man, please dial 310-458-8491 or email
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: If you need help, simply call or text 988. We
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: remember an American hero, Deputy Sheriff Ryan Thomas, Valencia County Sheriff's,
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: New Mexico, just 30, killed in the line of duty,
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: leaving behind a pregnant wife, Joyce. American hero, Deputy Sheriff
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: Ryan Thomas. Thanks to our guests, but especially to you
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: for being with us. Nancy Gray signing off for tonight,
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: but I'll see you tomorrow night. And until then, good night, friend.