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Leading With Purpose · LeaderSIP: Let's Talk Leadership

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_07: Welcome everyone to another episode of Leadership, where we talk about leadership as well as what's in our cup.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_07: And today we have with us Ivor Peters.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_07: Welcome, Ivor.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_07: And before we dive in, we'd love to hear what is it, Ivor, that you are sipping on today.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, today I am enjoying it's a sparkling prebiotic soda with really actually very, very British ingredients.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Rhubarb and apple.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it kind of doesn't get much, you know, kind of more British than that, you know?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Rhubarb.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I and the reason I also love that combo is because it's also a combination in my favorite puddings, which is a rhubarb and apple crumble.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Do you get that?
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_07: I just made rhubarb strawberry crumble, which is what we're into.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_07: Strawberry rhubarb over here on this side of the pond.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Blown my mind now.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to have to explore that combination.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_07: You've blown my mind with apple rhubarb.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_07: I don't know about that one.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because you need the sharpness of the rhubarb, and then you you also then have that slight tartness as well.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: You do need to add a little bit of sugar or some sweetness as well just to balance it out.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but that's why it makes a really lovely combination.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_07: Wow.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_07: Wow.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_07: Both of our minds are blown on both sides of the pond.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_07: Can you also tell us where you're located?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: I am located in Berkshire, um, the royal county of Berkshire, um, in England.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so we're about um about sort of 30 miles west of London, um, and we live in a town, kind of big village called Ascot.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's where they have the races, you know, with the people that turn up with top hats and fancy dresses and hats.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we we live just a stone's throw from the race course.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_07: Nice.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_07: Thank you so much, Ivor.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_07: And Yara, why don't you tell us what you're sipping on today?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_05: I'm sipping in some uh chai today.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_05: So, in this beautiful cup that a good friend gave to me.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_05: And I am here in Portland, Oregon.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, that's where we are.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_07: Yara wanted to match the theme of like Indian fusion, you know?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_07: Oh my god.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_07: Really?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_05: I have so like it's just so impressive, but I we are going to deep dive in your products, but it's just incredible.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_03: So oh bless you, bless you.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's true.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_07: And I'm kind of late, I'm the one trick pony where I love to drink cacao and almond milk.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, that I made, you know, to impress you, Ever.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_07: I made the almond milk.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's very good.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: You made the almond milk.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Shannon.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: I know I mean next level.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_07: I know it.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_07: Here's everyone else, and then here's me.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: My goodness, you set the bar so high for disappointment for everyone else.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_06: How do we reach that?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_07: Okay, well, why don't we jump in, Ivor?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_07: You are a very impressive human.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_07: We are here to talk about your food brand.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_07: And please correct me on whatever I'm not saying properly.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, sure.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_07: You so you as a human, you do marketing, you do PR, you have this beautiful company called Babylon.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_07: And we are here to talk to you about leading with purpose or purpose-driven industries.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_07: And it looks like you started a pop-up called Cash and Curry, which was a restaurant set up as a social enterprise to raise funds for India's street children.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_07: You also wrote a book called Curry Memoirs.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_07: You also did podcasting, you also help podcasters podcast, and you also now have a physical product stocked in around a hundred co-op stores.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's right.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_07: Take it away.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_07: What what have I missed?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, so you're absolutely spot on.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I started my career in marketing, uh, publishing, advertising, media, communications, all of that.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so the the kind of the quick canter through all of that was um started life in publishing, content, um, and then moved on into uh public relations, um uh some broadcasting as well, right through to then developing um creative agencies and marketing uh agencies.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of all the way through that journey, I guess storytelling has been kind of the that kind of the red thread that's gone through everything, really.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh Urban Raja is a purpose-driven uh food food and drink brand.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh and we uh we operate in South Asian, contemporary South Asian street food.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: We've been really, really grateful that we we've now been listed in over a thousand Tesco stores around the UK, and we started life in the co-op.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and uh and we got some more adventures to come.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um uh and an Urban Roger is a purpose-led uh business, and the whole kind of North Star is to help take people out of human trafficking and modern-day slavery.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that's our purpose and our mission, and then the way we do that is by innovating with South Asian uh street food flavors that you can enjoy at any point.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_07: Wow.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_07: For like congratulations, Ivor.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_07: Just on.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_07: It feels like it feels like such a a spot that many aspire to.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_07: Like, how can we have purpose and also success and also a wonderful product?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_07: And you've you've you've succeeded in that Venn diagram of like what we love to do or what we're good at and what the world needs.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_07: Um God bless you.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, thank you.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, and I'm wondering if you can just walk us through a few definitions, like when you say purpose, what does that mean for you or purpose-led?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think um I I think uh for me, purpose is uh the engine that drives your uh why you do what you do.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um but for me, purpose is always um always meant it has to be bigger than you.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: Has to be bigger than your kind of orbit.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um you can use your orbit, you can use your community, you can use your part of the world to make a bigger impact in somebody else's life.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm always sort of drawn to um a popular quote, uh, which is look, I can't, I may not be able to change the world, but I might be able to change someone's world, right?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um so so purpose for me is always about look, it has to be beyond yourself, and it's gotta be bigger than yourself.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh because if it's smaller than that, um, then you you hit that glass ceiling very, very quickly.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it's got to be bigger.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the ambition, it's about a moral ambition, that's perhaps a better way of phrasing it.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_05: I I love that.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_05: I I have a follow-up question to that.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_05: When that started, when you started feeling in your life, you said, like, oh, wait, because sometimes it's a go, go, go thing.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna go to college, I'm gonna do this, and then suddenly at some points we have this aha moment where we say, like, oh wait.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_05: There is something else that I should be doing, not only for me, but for an entire community, humanity, and then that expanding.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: When that happened, yeah, I I think uh that's a brilliant question, Yara.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh thank you.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think if I trace it back, um I took a pause in my career in media, um, working in in publishing and marketing, and I took a pause for about sort of about a year.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um I was just in a fortunate position, the resource was there, and so I started to work for a local youth organization working with young people um and working with uh young homeless people as well.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um that then led me to working with a much bigger organization in um uh social change, both in the UK and and internationally.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: And what I soon realized is actually that action of being able to give, I don't know, it just unlocks something in you that is much, much deeper and quenches a deeper thirst of why am I here?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: There was a moment where my wife and I were travelling around India.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: So my family are from the north of India and Pakistan in the Punjab, and we were traveling on the east coast of India, um, and we'd visited some slum projects in Chennai, like chaotic, like that city and so many Asian cities, they're contradictions, they're just living contradictions, right?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: So much noise, so much traffic, yet you see few crashes, you know.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, somehow it kind of all worked together, right?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got all of this that's going on, and we saw some work in a local project in some local uh run by some local community-based organizations in the slums.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we just saw how a little bit went a long way.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um, you know, money was helping support slum communities to put part-time doctors, nurses, teachers, feed uh young families.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: And you got a choice right there and then you can't unsee it.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: So this one question.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: And here's the question what what is my response?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: What do I do?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: I can either do something or I can do nothing.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: And we chose the something route.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's incredible.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, it also has me thinking, Ivor, just how complex the world is and how many levers l levels of society there are, and like how there's the haves and the have not.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_07: And I'm curious, like I I see you entering this space of your product, which I would also love to hear more about the burroti.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_07: Am I saying that correctly?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well done.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_07: Thank you, thank you.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Nailed it.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_07: Um Yara was like, is that a burrito and a roti combined?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_07: And I was like, I know.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, I know it.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_05: I know it this to the person, to my friend that is being that I love so much and has been teaching me so much.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_05: Uh learned it's it was not my idea.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_05: I learned from someone.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's cool.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_05: That's understands roti and teaching taught me what's a roti.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_07: I'm wondering how like as you grow, and I'm seeing you're getting you're uh finalist in the Sammy's comp competition or awards.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_07: And I'm just seeing you gain more and more recognition on more media, and I'm like, how are you staying centered in your purpose and how is that for you right now in this this time of of growth?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: So um I think I think often it it's easy to fall into the trap of there's so many complex issues in the world.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: How do I what do I put my hand to?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: What do I put my energy into?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think again, it just it comes down to a really simple thing.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: For me, it's what is it you love doing, but can you do it for someone else?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we love cooking and we love hospitality and entertaining.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Can we do that for someone else?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: So when we saw the projects in some of those slums, we came back um and we our response was we're gonna run supper clubs in our home, like a pop-up restaurant.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Gonna call it cash and curry, we're gonna cook you an amazing four-five-course meal.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: It'd be unlike anything you get in the restaurants, it's all home cooking, and um, you just pay whatever you think it's worth.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, big complex issues.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: How do people live in poverty?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Why do they end up there?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: All of that sort of stuff, really complex.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Our response is what is it we love doing?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Can we do it for someone else?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Simple, right?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, and then we can bring people into that dialogue.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: So let me tell you about the story of Priya.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, who's Priya?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then we can start to talk about the difference that they are making in Priya's life whilst they're eating a roti, for example, right?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: So we just scoop like uh a marketing award.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: We're up against some of the biggest supermarkets uh in the UK and other brands in the Sammys, and the Sammis, it's cheesily called the Grammys for the sandwich world, hence the Sammys.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: So good.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_07: Love a good pun.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_07: We love it's not bad, hey.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_05: It is really good.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_05: Now I want to follow the Sammy.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_05: Now I'm gonna be a fan.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_05: I love a good sandwich.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: So well, that was it.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: So we we just kind of thought, well, we're just gonna just put our story out there, and we you know, and these are really big brands and players we're up against.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um we you know, we we we we were just really kind of fairly upfront about our entry.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Look, this is what we're doing, this is how we advertise, this is how we use socials, this is how we uh use AI content, this is what we're doing across uh our various platforms, um, and this is why we're doing it.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I'm not entirely sure, Shannon, if I've answered your question, but the grounding is this what is it you love doing?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Do it for somebody else, and and and that keeps us really feet on the ground.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_07: Did you come up with that?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, I think so.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_07: I'm not surprised.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not surprised I was asked, well, do you know I in the same kind of way, you know, people say, Well, how do you do this balance between purpose and profit and commerce and ambition?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I think we're just human beings, we're really hardwired to make things more complex than they need to be.
• 16:30
  unknown: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_07: Well, and it's it's almost an impossibility to hold tension like that, right?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_07: Of like I think so.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_07: All the complexities in the world.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_07: It's just like and then we just like snap to something that is like very linear thinking.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_07: And and I I see what you're doing is more than that.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_07: Like you're you're holding tension all the time with with this purpose and commerce, and like you say it as if it's not very complex, but you are you are walking a complex line.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: It it it you know, when you peel back the layers, so if if we if we have a base principle of simplicity, as we know, um you know, like swans gliding across a pond, there's a lot of activity going below the surface, right?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: So if we peel the layers back, totally complex, right?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: So we work with supermarkets and manufacturers at a time where there are huge complex issues um over here in the UK and across Europe around food inflation, the cost of food, uh, the cost of transport, the issues around uh environmental challenges, all around all of that.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: What does that mean in terms of packaging?
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: What does that mean in terms of communication?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Which channel should we be using?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and those products are on promotion.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Should we be joining that promotion?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, if yes, there are loads of complex levers in all of that, um, but I think that's the way we ground it, right?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Why are we doing what we're doing?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: So let's just keep answering that why question um and then build a community that want to be behind that why.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um and take people with you, you know?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's the thing that I really love about this journey is just take people with you.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when everyone's included, everybody wins, right?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm yet to meet anybody that doesn't think that that's the case, you know.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_07: What do you mean by that by take people with you?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like yeah, so a a really good example is um uh in the food world and in sort of um in the grocery supermarket, you know, world where you're meeting with buyers and what they would call category buyers.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: So food to go or food on the go, frozen, prepared, chilled meals, they've all got different categories.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll meet with a buyer.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: And no and buyers um notoriously have a reputation for driving a really hard bargain, right?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because they got targets to meet, they got profit centers to contribute into.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: So they want to buy competitively so that they can retail at a point where their margins are healthy and profitable.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: We get it.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um but in that conversation, whilst we're talking with another person, another human, that is what they are.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: They're another human.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: So let me just tell you about the story of what we've just heard from one of our partners in Bangladesh.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and uh there's a lady called Shamina, uh, and Shamina was stopped at the border between Bangladesh and India.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason that she was stopped is because the border guards had recognized some telltale signs of being trafficked.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason that those border guards knew that there was something that was going on was because one of the organizations that we work with, Justice and Care, have got a program where they help train the border guards and those government officials.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Those government officials were able to spot the signs, quiz her companions, who are basically her traffickers, about what was going on, hold them in detention, understand a bit more about Shamina's story.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: Her story had been she had been trafficked back and forth the border since she was a teenager, a lady now, you know, well into her late 20s, and um and and essentially we were able to help support that organization because why you can sell our barotes.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Number one, they're fantastically tasty, they meet your mission in your category, they're gonna bring different shoppers into your fixture as well.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you don't have any of these flavor profiles within your fixture, so let's just make it easy to for people to make a difference.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um and the end piece of that story is Shamina, this is the brilliant bit I love.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: She now runs her own.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: She's been repatriated with her community, gone through a period of um of counselling and support and all the rest.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: We were able to support with a little micro um a uh a micro grant for a business.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: She now runs.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Her own chicken and lentil food to go stall in Bangladesh.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And she's generating like something like$350 a month, which she is then able to help employ other women who are at risk.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: How can we do that?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're a via and you have the opportunity to make a difference.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: Come with us.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_05: I I love that story.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_05: And also one of the challenges, if I let me see if I can if I can share here, because one thing that I love is this opportunity that you have here at the very beginning, the purpose.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_05: One of the things that sometimes, at least for me, is like, I oh my god, I know that this is so negative for the environment, for the people.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_05: We have no choice.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_05: We need to buy from these people.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_05: We have no choice, but this is totally the opposite.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_05: It's like this is yummy for the tomtom, but also yummy for the soul, what you're doing.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_05: Yummy for the yummy for your soul as well.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_05: So it's so incredible.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_05: I love that you have not only here the first thing that you present here is not you need to buy this because you need to buy this.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_05: It's like, yes, but we're making it's it's tasty, it's incredible, it's beautifully packed.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_05: I love the brand.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_05: Let me tell you that I love the brand.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I love the idea, it's very creative, but also not only that, is you're saying, look at all these great things that we have, but we're feeling not only our stomachs, we're feeling our soul because we are helping.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_05: Look at what all the things that we can do.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_05: We can be successful and help others to be successful.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_05: So, this absolutely, I'm absolutely in love with with this.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_05: Um, the way that you decided to lead this project and this product.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: So we recently did this thing called Picnic with Purpose.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's um where we gathered together a bunch of other food and beverage brands, all have the same sort of purpose and mission in mind, but helping um free people from human trafficking uh and modern-day slavery.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: And here's the thing, right?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: The benchmark for all of those brands is that they are growing.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: The purpose for it was that we just wanted to give people choice this summer that if you're going to enjoy a picnic, fill it with really yummy stuff that makes a big difference.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: So here you go.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: You've got a choice.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: All of these products are available in your supermarkets, um, you know, really popular supermarkets, so you've got accessibility.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just make some really good choices, really tasty ones that will make a difference.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_07: I love it so much, Ivor, because and and that story, I feel like this year, and maybe this is always a threat in humanity where there's like a doom on the horizon.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_07: But this the way that you're describing your brand and you're describing humans, it's like if we give them a choice to have something delicious that also has purpose, like your brand is proof that we love that.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_07: Like we want to get in on that, we want to help, we want, we want things to be better.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_07: But tying back into that complexity topic you brought in, it's like, again, you're making it less complex for folks.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_07: It's like, okay, you want to help, you want to have a good time, you want to be trendy and stylish like Ivor, because you are both speaking.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_07: Um, and just like, let me let me put it, place it here before you, and you don't even have to think about it.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_07: Like, just cut through the complexity and you you've done it.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, we're we're we're in thank you, and we're doing it.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, one of the things that we have recognised is when we look at other brands on that similar trajectory, um, but who have purpose right at the heart of what they're doing, um, and social purpose in particular.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's a reason that we used a description, a noun, to describe people.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you break it down, it really breaks down, it reinforces the essence of who we are.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's human kind that that is is at what's the core.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Human kind is is what is at the core.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can help people rediscover that, I think that's our first, honestly, I think that's our first ambition.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's our first reaction.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um if we help people make some kind choices, that's it.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's not it's not too far under the surface.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um we see we see that happen every day, day in, day out, right?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: You hold a door open for somebody, you say after you, you know, um, you let someone pass, and you know, you're driving along, you let someone pass.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's not hard to do that, and I think if you practice that, it keeps your heart soft.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Therefore, what does that mean?
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's compassion, it's empathy, it's forgiveness in the workplace where someone's offended you, you've offended somebody, you've got the wrong end of you know, uh a translation of inner meeting around some actions or whatever that might look like.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's humankind.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: So practice kindness because it really softens your heart.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um that sounds very, very, I'm aware that can sound a bit woo-woo, right?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I but I think finding the light and being the light, it's not that hard to do.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_07: Wow.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_07: And and I love that so much.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_07: And Ivor, how many people do you are you do you have on your team?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we we use a lot of fractional support.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's so so uh you know, we we have um we have some core, it's about three or four of us that are core.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then beyond that, um we just use a lot of fractional support.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so you you know, I I have led organizations where there are, you know, scores of people and you know, um, and a couple of hundred people and what have you in those organizations.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: So not huge organizations, um, but uh but enough management layers and what have you.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: And here's what I've discovered.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: And um look, you know, um in a few years, if we get the chance to do this again, I want you to remind me of this conversation.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_07: Yes.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Is you put it on market um we want to always remain agile and to be able to make those decisions.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's not because we don't want to take responsibility or to employ people or anything like that.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's not about that.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's about the agility and being able to make decisions um without creating any sense of inertia.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's where we are now, yeah.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um and we work really hard to try and keep that, you know, uh the case.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then we we use really, really um fantastic talent, you know, um, that comes alongside us and works with us on a fractional basis.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's that's kind of the rhythm.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of yeah, yeah, yeah, that that that that's kind of the how it goes.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I think I'm I'm curious if you think that it's possible to have this sort of culture.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_07: The culture, because right now we're talking about your impact outward and globally, and I'm from an organizational perspective, I'm curious if you think the the culture you've created with urban raja, like is that possible on at a scale?
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_07: Like is it pa and I think that this is what you're speaking to with wanting to remain agile and not give into inertia.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_07: Like I I'm curious for you if that's something that you're chewing on as you're as you're growing.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really it's a really timely question.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I think that's about culture and organizational fit as well.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um so um so what we find is that we get approaches by by potential candidates, those that want to work with us, um, because they they love what we stand for and and and and kind of what our purpose is and how we go about it.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: So number one, you know, we we have an attraction there, um, w which is great to see.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: So how do you keep the culture special and true and original?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's you know, I think that is I think in part that's because you want to make sure that you're always close to you know, you're close to the wheel, as it were.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's not because you don't delegate responsibility, you don't delegate the authority, it's not because you don't allow others to um perform at the height, right?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because there are other people around me who I just can't do their jobs.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: I've I just that's just not what I do.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um and they're amazing at that.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: But we also have a common thread between us about why we're doing what we're doing, and the way that we do that is by staying close and not trying to build kind of distance or ivory towers, but have accessibility.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's probably a really rubbish management model.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, if I were to look at all the textbooks, you know, um, but it's just kind of what I've learned really over however many years of working with different teams and organizations, let people do what they're really good at doing, um, have keep it simple, two columns, responsibilities and consultation.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I'm responsible for, it's what you're responsible for.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: And this is where we consult each other on those decisions.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I mean, I I would say that that's not a rubbish answer at all.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_07: I I think that's a great answer.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_07: And you obviously know what you're talking about.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_07: Um, but it is it is something that is so curious to me.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_07: Like, and I know Yara the same, like we work in Yara works in government.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_07: I haven't yet, but like working in these really big corporations and um seeing working with managers that are middle managers and kind of far away from that um from their sphere of influence is beyond like what the the people at the top are making.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_07: And like this this concept of purpose is fascinating and like values and all of these things, because I think it's around 11% of organizations actually have operationalized their values.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_07: And it's this staggering, yeah.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_07: I don't know how that statistic they came upon it or what the study was, but I it's believable to me.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_07: Um, but just how easy it is for us to distance ourselves from our purpose when you like because of that inertia that you brought up, and you're actually the second guest to talk about that inertia and being like, I can't give into it, I can't give into the inertia.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_07: Um, but it's it's so curious to me.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_07: Like, is it possible to be a large organization at scale and stay close to the wheel?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_07: It's like, as human, are we capable of doing that?
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_07: Like, what do you what do you think, Ivor?
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_07: Is it is that an answerable question even?
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I I think it's tricky, is the short answer.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: Is I think it's tricky, and I think you have to work at it.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the um, and so if if we if we peel that back, um, what does that mean?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: So people have responsibilities, they've got roles, um uh there has to be clarity around what those roles and responsibilities are.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've just given you a very simplistic answer.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: Here's some responsibilities, what you're responsible for, what I'm responsible for.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: This is what we consult on before we make some decisions.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe that helps just streamline things.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I think I think this is it.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um that i I go back to that piece around we we're all doing a role, a job, whatever that might look like.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um but there's something that drives us all.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we don't have a choice, right?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we don't have a choice, and we just gotta do what we need to do.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um what I need to find in that moment is understanding why I'm doing that and how do I keep my heart soft.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: So the way of doing that is through gratitude.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm grateful that I've got a job.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really grateful that I'm able to pay my bills.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really grateful that we can put food on the table.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really grateful that, you know, we can, you know, we can go out for a bite to eat.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really grateful that we could go to a festival, I'm really grateful that I can just spend time with my family and we can watch a movie on a Saturday night.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: That is why I part that's why I'm doing what I'm doing.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that sense of being able to not take a uh a huge, always macro view, but a micro view in those moments to say, so what is it that keeps your heart alive?
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: What what is it that builds and brings purpose to your role?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: And we're not always in that position where we can be in control of that, um, but we can see it in a broader context to say, how do I find my purpose and my joy?
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Not happiness, but joy, which is a deeper peace.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um happiness is momentary, isn't it?
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh so yeah, I th I think again it's a very woolly answer, but there's always a purpose.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's always a reason why.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: Sticking close to that reason why, particularly if you're a middle management, uh that's taught us about being human and understanding people's why.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_07: It's really thank you.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_07: Love that answer.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_07: It reminds me of you know the Coverdale preparation action review and just the importance of review when working on a project.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_07: I know, I know, I know.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_07: We love, we love.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_07: Um and what you're what I'm visualizing as you talking is like the preparation action review cycle, but for purpose.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_07: Like, are we stopping and are we are we re-grounding ourselves in purpose?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_07: Are we like pause?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_07: Is this still is this still what we're what we're wanting to be doing?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_07: Is this still driving, like, is our heart still soft?
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_07: Are we still is this still creating joy?
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_07: Like people, are we are we are we still centered?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that whole piece around slowing down to speed up is I mean, uh for me that was uh uh an awakening actually to discover that is I need to slow down, so I need to understand what's going on in this moment, I need to understand why I'm starting to feel these internal reactions or or I need to slow down to understand the impact I'm having in this moment um in uh in order to to speed up, you know, whatever we need to work on together.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that pausing, um Yeah, that's incredibly powerful, really, really powerful.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_07: And so hard.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_07: It's so hard to pause.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_07: It's like when things are going fast.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_05: You like work with me um with that tool of slowing down.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_05: I'm I'm uh I'm a doer.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_05: So most of the time I'm like, boom, this is happening, and I start planning, and we just go, let's go out and let's roll out this XYC.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_05: And I remember being like, purpose.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, I know my purpose.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_05: I've been in business since 2018.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_05: I know what.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_05: And then when Shannon asked me that question and worked with me through this uh process of let's slow down, let's redefine, let's let's see if you are still aligned with your purpose.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_05: I feel that that was a total shift in the products that I was preparing to roll out.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_05: My my products change because of AI.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_05: I do e-learning and everything, learning and development and platforms and all those things.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_05: And I was kind of running, just running, go, go, go, go, go.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_05: And then I stopped for a second and kind of realign.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_05: And I was like, I don't have time for that, but I was wasting time, right?
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_05: Because I was in the go, go, go.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_05: So I kind of started value the value of, as you're saying, I were as like, I want to watch a movie with my family on a Saturday.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_05: That's luxurious.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_05: The time that we spend with our loved ones is extremely luxurious.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_05: That's extremely, it's not a yacht, it's not a so I started also realigning my time, my efforts, and end up like get got getting a lot of success.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_05: But at the beginning, I was a little bit resistant to the idea of slowing down.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_05: Don't slow me down because I need to run.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_05: Um, that's what good leaders do.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_05: They just do, they don't stop.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_05: That was my my the way that I was wired in the corporate world, in the corporate arena, that's what I learned.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_05: No, you never stop.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_05: A good leader never stops, a good leader never slows down, is the one running way ahead.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_05: So I love that you said that.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_05: And I feel that makes so much sense that you're even your brand, you don't need to read through an entire pamphlet for that.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_05: You see and you feel it.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_05: You see and you automatically understand.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, this is what's happening here.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_05: So it's not only your leadership, it's the way that you are also communicating your your leadership style and your vision.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_05: It's it's really landing incredibly easy to to digest.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, got it.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_07: It's easy to digest like emotionally and physically through our.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_07: I know.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: See, we've done that.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: You guys are great.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: Look at you.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: Smooth.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: Love that.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: Look at that half straight away.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: Love that.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't even see that coming.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, and I think one of the other things about that is um you're absolutely right, Yara, that the um the measure often of what a successful leader is, um, or the measure of success can always be about how many hours they put in, right?
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: First to first to be in, last to leave, you know, I'm gonna work harder than everybody else, right?
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not down on a work ethic, right?
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, and everybody's work ethic is different.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, however, um that piece around um being able to redefine or rediscover what your purpose is and what you're grateful for, gratitude in the moment, gratitude in the mess, when it's all blowing a hoolie around you, you know, gratitude in the mess.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, what am I really grateful for at this time?
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: What am I grateful for in this moment?
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm grateful for it.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_07: Blowing a hoolie, I don't I don't know that.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_07: I don't, we don't on this side of the pond, what's the point?
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna gift that to you.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: You can use that.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: You'll have that response by somebody else.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: What on earth is she talking about?
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: Flowing a hoolie.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: A hoolie is like a storm, you're in the middle of a storm, you're in a gale, it's all whirling around you, you know.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that's the that's the thing.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: In the middle of all of that, in my view, some of the best leaders I've found and I've been really fortunate to work around, is there is a calm.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that calmness is i it the root of that calmness is is a is a practiced exercise.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Over the years, compound interest of gratitude.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_07: That's and Does that make sense?
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_07: It does make sense.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_07: And I also another ingredient that I want to see what I did there.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_07: Um that I want to that I want to bring into the conversation, which is something that Yara and I reflect on a lot because we both come from very different backgrounds, like in terms of she's from Puerto Rico, which is like, I mean, just the way it's positioned in the US as a colony, and like the amount of resources and the work ethic.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_07: And we we we bump into that sometimes because I'm like, let's chill, we're good.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_07: And she's like, no, we we need to like have a backup plan because you know, and and just the ingredient of privilege of being able to sit in gratitude, like, and that's that's another one of those tensions of humanity, right?
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_07: Like it it feels like I am in a privileged position to just be like, you guys, let's, you know, sit, like as Yara said, like, let's watch a movie, let's, you know, like let's take some time off and let's like just sit and re ruminate in this place of success.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_07: Um, but sometimes, and I'm I learn like, oh wait, that's also a huge privilege that I'm able to like do that.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_07: What do you think about that, Ivor?
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think um I think it's uh it's a real it's a it's a really prickly subject, right?
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and I get what you're saying, Yari, you know, in terms of culture and canvas that you would have grown up in as well.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: So not not too dissimilar, right?
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so my parents, um, we're uh they're first generation migrants from India and Pakistan, um, and um and so we're we're kind of second generation, um, or my generation's second generation.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was always about look, get your head down, work really hard, blend in, don't, you know, just kind of assimilate and all of that.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I understand that.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I get some of the I get I understand some of where that's coming from.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we grew up in that.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: We really grew up in that, as in you've got to work hard, you gotta you know, nothing comes to you just easily.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I have some of those tensions as well.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it and it's a practice um that I have to um remind myself of and a practice is the right description.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I have to try and just like I enjoy working out or going for a runs or what have you, I have to work.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_06: It's a muscle.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_06: It's a muscle.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's exactly that, right?
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so gratitude, reflection, all of those sort of um really just really important virtues, um, they are practices.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: The more I practice at them, the more grounded I find myself.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: And um and the less and I'm I'm I'm not as tough as I uh I'm not as tough on myself as a result.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because I can look at it and just be grateful and say, wow, yeah.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's all that's okay, that's really good, you know?
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_07: Um Yara, would you uh would you mind sharing the story about the woman with the paint, like that's the painter and six yeah, yeah.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_05: Can you yeah, just uh to just to hear your thoughts on on this one.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_05: Um there is this story about this woman that it was really good.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_05: She she was painting every morning, uh, and it was great.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_05: Every morning she would wake up and complete a um a piece of art.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_05: And this guy says, like, you know what?
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_05: You can sell this art.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_05: And she said, like, why?
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_05: So you can have employees, and it's like, why?
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_05: Like, you can open a factory and you will have you will multiply your art and then you can have employees and you can have a factory.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_05: She's like, Why?
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_05: And he's like, Well, you can become it's like let's see if you sell one of those every day and in your factory, so you can end up being a millionaire.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_05: And so, like, but why?
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_05: Like, so you can have time, if you're a millionaire, you will have time to spend in your garden and with your cats.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_05: And she's like, Yeah, that's why I'm only painting one art per day the rest of the day.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_05: I'm in my garden and with my cat.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm already there.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_05: So sometimes we we share, I share the story, and thank you for sharing your background, because that's not necessarily productive, being all the time, and that with that understanding that leadership means that you never rest, that you never spend time with your family, that you will sacrifice every single healthy thing just to be that that idea of a leader, that at least in in my country, that's the way that is performed.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_05: Like just put your head down, work every day, be the last one leaving the office, and you're gonna be the leader.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_05: And um, sometimes I reflect with Shannon because uh with like, why?
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_05: And then why do you want to do that?
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_05: Because it's that the same story with the woman and and the and the and the art.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_05: Sometimes I'm like, I'm already there, so wait, wait, what I'm doing, because I want to have time to spend with my family, because I want to do something that is purpose, that that there is a purpose behind it, because and then it's like, oh, wait, am I already working towards that?
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_05: Like, is that is this just leadership but different from what I was taught as growing up, or what my parents and and my culture decided that it was the correct way to be a leader.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, I want to hear your thoughts about, and I don't know if you already heard that story.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, it's a brilliant story, and there's a few derivations of that, but it's a great reminder.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think um I think uh there are uh a few things that I've learned, which is um it depends what we mean by leadership.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: So if we think we're a good leader in a paid environment, well whatever that looks like, it's always gonna translate into other areas of your life.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I think about leadership in the whole.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think leadership is about modelling, right?
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_07: So it's about what?
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's about modelling um but you know, values, virtues, morals, behaviors, all of that.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: So what do I model as a husband, as a son, as a brother, as a father, as a friend?
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because that is what leadership is.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_07: Can you say more about that, Iber?
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_07: Like how is that how is that leadership?
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so so if if I um so if I um if I'm bullish, always within a working context, to still who I am, still part of me.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_01: So how else is that gonna show up?
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: How else is that gonna turn up?
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: So does that still model?
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: Is that good model of leadership just because I'm just gonna get my head down, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be on call all the time.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um well, what is that model to my family?
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: That other people are more important than they are.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what will they then model?
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: What will my son then model in his relationships and his friendship groups and and all the rest?
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how I see leadership.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: Leadership isn't uh it's not a satellite skill that only appears in an environment that pays you or that you're working in.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's everything, it's all leadership.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, how do I how do I show up is probably a better way of describing it.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's how I would see it, and and that's the thing about a practice um is how do I show up?
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um and maybe it's a better simplified way of thinking about leadership.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: How do I show up in this moment?
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: How do I show up with my colleagues?
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: How do I show up at home?
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: How do I show up in my community?
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's what leadership is.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_07: I give that a chef's kiss out of the route.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_07: That's amazing.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_07: Fantastic.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_07: That's amazing.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: Measured by the heart.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_07: Measured by the heart, chef's kiss.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_07: Um and yeah, I think that and then we'll move on to rapid fire, the rapid fire round.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_07: Um, but I think that it's so we've had we've heard grew up, I grew up with this narrative of I am not my job, I am separate from my job, and which I think is a healthy boundary.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_07: And like it's also impossible sometimes to separate ourselves, especially in a purpose-driven environment.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_07: Um but I think that that's such a beautiful way to look at it of like how we show up at home and how we show up at work.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_07: Like we're we're still the same person, we're still measuring with the same heart in every environment.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_07: So I and I'm again grateful that I get to have the privilege of showing up as myself in my job and in my in this podcast and at home.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_07: And um, but I I just I I admire that that response and I'm I'm gonna chew on it for a little while.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, same here.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_05: I'm I've never heard that that definition of leadership, and I feel that it just like lands perfectly.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, oh true.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe that's the piece that I was I I I was waiting for this, you know.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_05: I was like, oh, that now kind of like this is uh a missing piece of my puzzle.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_05: So thank you so much.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna be thinking about it, not not for a while, for a long time.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_05: So thank you so much.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_07: Add it to the resume, Ivor, adding pieces of the puzzle to people's life story, you know?
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I like that.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_07: Um, okay.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_07: Okay, are you ready, Ivor, to enter into rapid fire question round?
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: I am bracing myself.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_07: Okay, okay.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_07: Brace, brace.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_07: Do you want to kick us off?
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, the first one curry or wrap.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_03: Curried wrap.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_07: Bringing them together just like the muroty.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: I know I was waiting for beautifully set up, thank you.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_07: Wow, wow, yeah, really, really.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_07: Okay.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_07: Um, one spice you'd never cook without cumin.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_04: Oh.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_04: Nice, okay, okay.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_01: Instantly makes it South Asian.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, cumin is what makes it Asian.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_03: In my view.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_05: I want to ask a piece of advice that today's Ivor would give to a younger Ivor.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_04: Take time to celebrate.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_07: Oh.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_07: And like full circle moment to the conversation.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_07: Nice.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_01: Take time to celebrate.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_01: Please don't sweat the small stuff.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um education is really important.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it doesn't stop at school.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um and the exams will only get you so far.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: The results will only get you so far.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so don't beat yourself up over it.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_07: I hope that that Ivor gets that advice at some point.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_07: Sending it through the times.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_07: Um, okay, and then lastly, a brand you can complete the sentence.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_03: A brand without purpose is just a rudderless ship as it will just keep doing this.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_03: It'll go anywhere.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's no purpose.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't know where you want to go, how are you gonna get there?
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_07: Iver, I mean, we have cultivated the most delicious insights from you today.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I can uh sadly we need to come.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, I can have this conversation for so rich.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_05: I feel like I've learned so much.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_05: Um, it's been such an amazing conversation.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_05: I'm I cannot wait for part two because it's been so amazing.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: Boom!
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_01: You've set it up right there, Yara.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, is that an invite?
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_01: Is that an invite?
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, absolutely, please.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_05: It's just so amazing.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_05: It's been such a pleasure to to talk to you, to get to know your your your purpose.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_05: It's just incredible what you're doing.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_01: So kind.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: Look, it's been a real it's been a real feast for me.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I really appreciate it.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: And um yeah, thank you.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing questions as well.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: Great conversation.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_01: This has been this has been the highlight of my week.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've been so looking forward to it.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_07: Thank you.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_07: Oh, same Ivor.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_07: And and can you please tell people, our listeners, how can we find you?
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_07: How can we find your products?
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_01: So um urban rager uh urban r-a-j-a-h um uh dot com, and those are our handles as well across socials.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um and where can you find us?
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, in the UK, um, if you want something grand, not bland, uh, at lunchtime, head on to your nearest supermarket, your Tesco or what have you, and you'll find us in the chiller aisle waiting for you.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_07: Oh, yeah.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_07: What about our best parcels in the US?
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_07: Can we find it?
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now you've got now you've got a job because we need some agents in the US that are gonna help broker um Urban Roger uh in the US.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: So um yeah, your hands up to us.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_05: He's given us a yeah, I love that is that uh now I feel the duty.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're part of the family.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_01: So every family, we all have different roles and responsibilities.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yours is to crack the US for us.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you very much for that.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_07: Okay, yeah.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_07: That's a duty, that's a duty.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_07: And Ivor, can you also just explain quickly what a burotti is?
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um if um if India made uh burritos, they would be burotis.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a burrito style filling and approach with a roti style flatbread.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's the taste of India, South Asia in a wrap.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, filled with delicious chutneys, some signature sauces, tumble grains, smashed onion barge, lime channel masala.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, these are yeah, it's a flavor nirvana, is what it is.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, nice.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_05: Oh wow, that's amazing.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so now we have a duty.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you for doing that.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you so much for joining us, Ivor.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_05: It's been nothing but a pleasure.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's been an absolute pleasure.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_07: Thank you.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_07: Thank you so much, Ivor.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_01: Cheers.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.