Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #67 Raising Resilient Kids with Kerwin Rae

Transcript

#67 Raising Resilient Kids with Kerwin Rae · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to the latest episode of Unstoppable.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: My name is Cowan Ray and it would make sense
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: that I'm your host and today I chat with another
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  Speaker 1: parenting expert, doctor Justin Colson. Justin is the author behind
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: the twenty one Days to Happier Family and the Ten
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  Speaker 1: Things Every Parent Needs to Know. He writes weekly columns
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: for the Sydney Daily Telegraph and appears regularly on shows
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  Speaker 1: like The Project, The Today Show and Studio ten. Doctor
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  Speaker 1: Justin knows a thing or two about successful parenting, discipline,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: and how to work with your children and not against them.
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  Speaker 1: So for those of you with kids that are unruly
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  Speaker 1: and you're looking to learn how to.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Discipline, this is a podcast for you.
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  Speaker 1: And if you haven't checked her out already, we also
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  Speaker 1: have another incredible podcast with parenting expert doctor Vanessa LaPoint
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: that you want to check out. Also, stay tuned for
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: this one. Ladies and gentlemen. It's been a real honor
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  Speaker 1: to welcome doctor Justin Colson.
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: Great to have you, Doctor Jay, so good to be here.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Can I call you doctor Jay? You can call you
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: whatever you want. I'll smile and say that's fine, no
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: problem at all. You won't be the first person.
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  Speaker 1: You clearly are a parenting expert to be able to
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  Speaker 1: say something like that, because you've got to deal with
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  Speaker 1: a lot of stuff, you know as a parenting, as
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  Speaker 1: a parent, but as a parenting expert.
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  Speaker 2: We really do need to build thick skins, don't we.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I think it's not even just about parenting,
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  Speaker 3: and I think this will come out a light as
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  Speaker 3: we discussed today, it's our relationships and life really right,
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: and if you can navigate the unexpected that gets thrown
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: at you with an unusual name, or far worse, with
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  Speaker 3: employees or toddlers who sometimes hand us unwanted output, either
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  Speaker 3: verbally or in their actions, if you can deal with that, well,
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  Speaker 3: your relationships will be smooth and easy, and life is
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  Speaker 3: so much.
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  Speaker 2: Better and so funny.
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  Speaker 1: We went there really fast, because parenting and leadership are
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  Speaker 1: the same thing. Yes, straight, I'm cut to the chase
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  Speaker 1: because I've said to you know, because we obviously were
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: with entrepreneurs, but a lot of our huge amount of
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  Speaker 1: our client base, I think it's like almost ninety five
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  Speaker 1: percent of our followers our parents, yep. And what's what
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  Speaker 1: I've said to them as in business, so can you
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  Speaker 1: imagine walking up to an employee and when they do
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  Speaker 1: something wrong, screaming at them and smacking them.
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  Speaker 2: So go to your office and think about what. You
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  Speaker 2: go to the corner and think about forty three minutes
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  Speaker 2: in the corner to think about this for goodness sakes.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, So for people who don't know doctor j doctor
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  Speaker 1: Justin Colson, quick blurb, who are you?
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  Speaker 2: What do you do? Why are we going to listen?
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  Speaker 2: All right, let's do the thirty second version.
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  Speaker 3: I grew up in New South Wales on the central coast,
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  Speaker 3: wanted to be a radio an ounce for all my life.
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  Speaker 3: Once I finished school, I did a couple of years
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  Speaker 3: of volunteer work and then became a radio announcer. I
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  Speaker 3: spent about a decade as a radio DJ. Had a
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  Speaker 3: couple of kids aged three and zero, and had this
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  Speaker 3: awful experience one day, and it was one of several, unfortunately,
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  Speaker 3: but this was a particularly bad one where I just
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  Speaker 3: I treated my three year old so.
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  Speaker 2: Badly and it could you lock them in the cupboard
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  Speaker 2: far worse? I lost the it.
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  Speaker 3: It was one of those afternoons where I was exhausted.
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  Speaker 3: I hadn't slept the night before, you know, because I'm
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  Speaker 3: living the radio DJ life, right. So Friday night him
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  Speaker 3: out till all hours.
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  Speaker 2: I'm up at stupid o'clock to work on the radio
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  Speaker 2: from six till midday at Brisbane's B one o five.
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  Speaker 2: Well you know, oh my god, I grew up in Brisbane,
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Jamie Dunn. Yeah, yeah, so I've worked with those guys.
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  Speaker 2: I was. I'll be honest. We played all today's best
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  Speaker 2: music while you worked. And I've gotten home, I've had
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  Speaker 2: two hours sleep, and you know, when you're on the radio,
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  Speaker 2: you've got.
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  Speaker 3: To sound like you're having the best day ever. And
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  Speaker 3: so I'm pushing back the exhaustion. I get home. It's
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  Speaker 3: one of those hot Brisbane afternoons. I'm shattered. My wife
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  Speaker 3: says to me, I got to go out. I'm going
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  Speaker 3: to leave the two kids with you. And I'm like, oh,
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  Speaker 3: I've just got to sleep. I'm wrecked.
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  Speaker 2: And Kylie says to me, no, no, no, no, no, it's okay.
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  Speaker 3: The baby's just gone to sleep, and Schanell, our three
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  Speaker 3: year old, she's going to be ready for a sleep in.
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  Speaker 3: You know the next fifteen minutes or so. Put it asleep.
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  Speaker 3: I'll be back before the kids wake up. You'll be fine,
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  Speaker 3: famous last words, you'll be fine. And so I'm like, okay, cool,
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  Speaker 3: no problem. I've gone to put Shanell to sleep. And
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  Speaker 3: if you've ever had a three year old, yeah, mine's
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  Speaker 3: just turn four.
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  Speaker 2: I've seen you a little guy.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, they get to that point when
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  Speaker 3: they're three where they're sort of going, no, I don't
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  Speaker 3: want to sleep in the middle of the day anymore.
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  Speaker 3: I'm too big for that now. And as that was
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  Speaker 3: the day, that was the day.
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  Speaker 2: And as an exhaust.
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  Speaker 3: Parent who's completely clueless, I'm just a regular dad at
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  Speaker 3: this point. I've got no idea about parenting. I'm like,
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  Speaker 3: I don't think so you're going to sleep. And if
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  Speaker 3: you've ever tried to negotiate with a toddler.
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  Speaker 1: You know, well, the thing is negotiating with children. It
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  Speaker 1: is like negotiating with terrorists. But the difference being is
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  Speaker 1: you can actually negotiate with the terrorsts. They might talk
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  Speaker 1: to you exactly.
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  Speaker 2: And so the three.
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  Speaker 3: In fact, one of my favorite things to say is
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  Speaker 3: when our children don't get our attention in civil ways,
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  Speaker 3: they will resort to terrorism.
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  Speaker 2: They just it's so true. They go bananas.
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  Speaker 3: And so no note toddler has ever looked at their
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: parent when their parent has gotten very logical and said, well,
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  Speaker 3: excuse me, but you do need to go to sleep.
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  Speaker 2: You're exhausted. I'm exhausted, and we're all going to be
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  Speaker 2: better for it.
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  Speaker 3: No toddler's ever said, you know what, dad, you're exactly right.
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  Speaker 3: Thanks for laying it out for me so clearly.
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  Speaker 2: And so I've escalated and she's escalated, and I said, well,
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  Speaker 2: i'll see your escalation and i'll raise it again.
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  Speaker 3: And we're going up and up and up, and next
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  Speaker 3: thing you know, there's you know, I whacked her, and
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  Speaker 3: I just it was horrible, and eventually she fell asleep
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: behind the door because I held the door while she
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: kicked it and screamed and all that sort of thing.
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  Speaker 3: And it was just an awful, awful experience. And I
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  Speaker 3: walked into it because because I wasn't going to sleep
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  Speaker 3: after that. I don't know if you've noticed, it's hard
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  Speaker 3: to go to sleep when you're angry and riled up.
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  Speaker 3: Not a good recipe for sleep. And so I've walked
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  Speaker 3: into the backyard. I'm like, for the first time in
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  Speaker 3: my life, I'm a bad parent. I'm a bad dad.
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  Speaker 3: And it really affected me. It shattered my world. And
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  Speaker 3: I wish I could say that was the only time I.
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  Speaker 2: Got it wrong.
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  Speaker 3: But when you don't have the skills and you don't
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  Speaker 3: have the you don't have any idea how to.
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  Speaker 2: Do this, you.
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  Speaker 3: Just kind of don't know where to go, so you
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  Speaker 3: keep making those mistakes. And I spoke to my wife
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  Speaker 3: and said, this is what happened. I blew it, and
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  Speaker 3: we discussed a few things, and I started to do
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  Speaker 3: some research and I ended up quitting my radio career.
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  Speaker 3: I went back to school. I spent eight and a
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  Speaker 3: half years as a full time student, graduated with a
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  Speaker 3: PhD in psychology and I'm the only person in the country,
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  Speaker 3: only person in Australia who has a PhD in positive
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  Speaker 3: psychology in parenting. Because I wanted to become the best
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  Speaker 3: dat I could be. Now, I still mess things up
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  Speaker 3: along the way, but along the way, I've written three
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  Speaker 3: or four books about parenting now and I speak internationally
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  Speaker 3: and all around Australia, excuse me, and basically teach people
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  Speaker 3: how to get their relationships right and how to boost
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  Speaker 3: their well being. They're interconnected, but they're also separate things,
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  Speaker 3: and that's that's who I am and what I do.
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  Speaker 3: Now that's the Well, sorry, we've got sidetracked with a story,
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  Speaker 3: but that was the short.
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  Speaker 2: But I think that encapsulates it. Oh sorry, And I've
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  Speaker 2: got six kids. Six kids would qualify anyone to become
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  Speaker 2: at least so many.
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  Speaker 3: People with six kids who aren't qualified parents called what
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  Speaker 3: are the agents of your kids?
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  Speaker 2: So our eldest daughter is eighteen, she's just started UNI.
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  Speaker 3: Then we've got a fifteen year old daughter, a fourteen
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  Speaker 3: year old daughter, a ten year old daughter, a seven
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  Speaker 3: year old daughter, and a three.
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  Speaker 2: Year old daughter.
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  Speaker 1: Do you ever get their names wrong from time to time?
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  Speaker 1: Do they take it personally? Yeah, depends on.
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  Speaker 2: The a They hate it, but you know, I give
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  Speaker 2: them a heart, can give their name right and we're okay. Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: So six daughters age between three that's the you're destroying
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  Speaker 3: my life age and eighteen that's the would you just
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  Speaker 3: move out of my house? Police age? And we we're
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  Speaker 3: just crazy about them. And to answer the questions that
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  Speaker 3: everybody's thinking, but nobody is impolite enough to ask, we
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  Speaker 3: do have a TV.
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  Speaker 2: We weren't trying for a boy, and we're just happy
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  Speaker 2: with six. Thanks for us.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so parenting, and again I think this is an
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  Speaker 1: incredibly and the reason we brought you on and again
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  Speaker 1: one of the reasons we spoke to Vanessa, who you know,
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  Speaker 1: you're a colleague of We're talking about how do we
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  Speaker 1: actually give ourselves the best possible chance as parents, but
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  Speaker 1: also to give the kids the best possible chance as
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  Speaker 1: children to grow up as healthy, as happy, as grounded
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  Speaker 1: and functional human beings. So when we talk about parenting,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: why is it that so many people, so many of us,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: actually screw it up in the first place, Because.
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  Speaker 3: It's happened to us, and it's guaranteed that we will
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  Speaker 3: do it as well. You know, there's no way that
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  Speaker 3: we're not going to mess up our kids in some way.
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  Speaker 3: I'm sorry that's a really nihilistic way of viewing things, but.
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  Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, everybody. You've just screticulated. You've made a
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  Speaker 2: mess of it already.
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  Speaker 3: The goal is to make less of a mess of
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  Speaker 3: it this time than our parents did for us.
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  Speaker 2: All love that, do you know what I mean? Yeah?
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  Speaker 3: Absolutely, And so we're going to get it wrong. We
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: have deeply ingrained unhealthy relationship patterns, whether it's our defensiveness
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: or our stone walling, or whether it's the way we
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: attack and just go at a situation, because this is,
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: you know, we're not happy with the way somebody does something,
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: and we think we've got to respond to it right
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: here and right now. I hope I don't embarrass my
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: parents too much by saying this, but my mum was
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: raised in a home where when there was something on
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: your mind, you talked about it, and you didn't just
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: talk about it.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: You got clear err as fast as you can, and
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: sometimes that would mean being abrupt and direct, and that
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: can really great on somebody, especially if they're a little
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: bit more empathic and a little bit more patient and
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: a little more well.
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  Speaker 3: My dad, he was raised in a home where you
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: hold your tongue and you patient, and you think through
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: things and you just let things go away. And so
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: you've got these two people with such a contrasting view
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: of conflict, and then they're raising children who are getting
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: hit by a mum who's like.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: What did you do that for? That was silly?
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: You know that kind of thing, Not that my mum
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: is amazing. I'm exaggerating certain aspects for illustrative purposes. And
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: then you've got a dad who says, well, let's just
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: give them time to think about it. And so you've
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: got parental conflict, but you've also got these differing styles
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: coming in at the kids, and it does impact on
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: the way the kids respond. And then you have a
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: parent who maybe calls their child a name, and the
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: child starts to think, I'm not.
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  Speaker 2: Good enough, I'm stupid, that's it. Yeah. Or you've got
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: a parent who says something so benign as I don't
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  Speaker 2: worry about it.
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  Speaker 3: I was never good at athletics either. I was the
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: worst swimmer in the school as well. And the kids
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: start to develop this mindset that says, well, I guess
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  Speaker 3: genetically and inherently, I'm not going to be any good
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: at that either, And we start to create these patterns
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  Speaker 3: this thinking.
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  Speaker 2: You know, you might have a parent who's exactly the opposite.
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  Speaker 2: I want to raise the best kids ever, and so
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: they teach their kids you can do anything, You've just
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: got to tough it out. And so here's this kid
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: who hates playing the piano, but they've got a parent
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: who's gone all tiger mum and says, you're going to
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: sit here and you're going to do it because I
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: know that you can, and you're going to thank me
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: for this one day. And so it seems like almost
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: no matter what we do, we're going to cause our
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: children to have some really significant challenges as they work
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: through their own processes and try to become who they
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: really are. But it is challenging spectrum.
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  Speaker 1: Is it important for kids to have healthy levels of
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: challenge because what we're talking about here is we're all
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: going to make mistakes and we're not going to be perfect.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: But it's about minimizing the level of which we go
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: to to make mistakes that's don't necessarily impact them in
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: a way where trauma is created that could, you know,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: lead to other issues down the track.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: A story and a metaphor. I'm in the back of
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: a cab.
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: I'm on the way to a venue so I can
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: give a talk somewhere, and the cabby says to me,
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: what do you do for work?
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, I try to email people here, I'm
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: trying to make calls. Leave me alone. But because I'm
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: a builder, I'm in real estate something anything. But so
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: I sighed and I put my phone down because I
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: value connection and I value helping people, and frankly, I
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: would rather make this Cabby's day than get that email
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: fied off and so I said, well, you know, I
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: write books about parenting and relationships and being happy, and
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: I give talks and I'm going to give a talk
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: right now about parenting. And he said, oh, he said,
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: I have a question for you. This is the normal
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: reson normal response. And I'm like, yeah, I figured you'd
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: have one. Is my cab ride free? Because you're about
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: to ask for this free advisor. He's like, no, you
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: pay for the cabin. That's okay, I'll give you a
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: free advice.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: Anyway, he says, how do I make sure that my
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: son becomes a pilot?
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Wow? Wow, no pressure, no pressure, And I said, wow,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: exactly the same response to my Shobne every day. And
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: so we talked about a whole lot of things, and
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: eventually I did the conversation around two does it matter
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: what your son becomes? Or does it matter who your
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: son becomes?
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: And we shifted the conversation from you know, titles and
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: careers to character and I asked him, I said, to him,
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: tell me about your dad and he said, because he
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: told me he wanted his son to be a pilot
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: so he'd be successful.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: Because he was just a taxi driver. And I said,
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: tell me about your dad and he said, well, he
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: lives in India and he's a peasant farmer and he
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: he you know, he has nothing, he has nothing at all.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: He thinks that we live so wealthy here in Australia.
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: And I said, how do you feel about your dad?
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: What kind of person is he? And he got quite emotional,
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: he got a bit weepy, and he just he talked
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: about these beautiful character attributes that his father had. He's
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: a hard worker and he's honest, and he gives everything
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: for anybody.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: And I said, does that, you know, does that light
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: you up? Does that make you feel in life? And
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: it enlarged when you think about those characteristics. He said, yeah, yeah,
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: yeah it does. I said, do you think that your
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: son will look at you and say to you you
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: were just a taxi driver. I said, you know, how
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: will he see you if you see your dad like that?
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: And it really changed the conversation. He was like, yeah,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: he'll see me as a hard worker. He'll see me
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: as somebody who loved his children and would do anything
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: for them. And so we had this wonderful conversation about
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: who not what do you want your son to be?
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: And my last question for him before I got to
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: the cab was, so tell me how your son is anyway.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: He said, he's two weeks old. I said, forget the
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: pilot thing. Just raise him to be a great kid.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: So that's the story. The metaphor is has escaped me.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: I got caught up with the story. It'll come back
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: to me. I'll come back to you in a moment.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: But the thing here is we want to help our
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: kids to work out who they really are and forcing
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: them into Oh the metaphor there, it is has come
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: back to me in terms of dealing with challenge. You
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: raised this idea kids have got to go through some
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: tough stuff and they do so that they can work
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: out who they are. And I liken it too in
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: my book Nine Ways to a Resilient Child. I liken
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: it to this idea of a balance beam. You remember,
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: you're at school and you've got to walk across the
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: balance beam and there's somebody on either side of you.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: They've got their arms outstretched so that if you overbalance,
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: they can break your fall, and as you start to tip,
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: they just put their hands on you and sort of
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: tip you back onto the beam. And I think that's
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: what our job is as parents. We put our kids
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: on the balance beam. We don't want them to fall
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: and land and break bones, but we do want them
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: to walk across the beam on their own, and so
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: we walk beside them to support them, and if they
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: start to tip, we might give them a little nudge
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: back onto the beam. We're there to just make sure
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: that they don't fall and hurt themselves too badly. And
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: if they do fall and we can't quite stop them,
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: at least we can arrest the fall. We can break
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: the fall, and they can have that fall slowed because
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: we're there beside them.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: So, yes, they do need to face challenges. They don't
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: get strong.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: You know, you don't become a well, you don't to
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: get a body like yours, Kirwin by not going to
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: the gym and working out.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: You know, you've got to have that. I think he's
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: hitting on me. You've got to have that resistance. The
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: resistance makes you makes you stronger.
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: But this idea that you've got to tell people to
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: toughen up tough enough, Princess, drink some concrete.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: The research would.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: Suggest that that's not the best way to make people stronger,
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: it's not the best way to make them resilient. In fact,
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: repeated failure experiences tend to destroy resilience. Repeated success experiences
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: tend to build resilience, so long as there's an appropriate
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: level of weight to push against.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: So let's let's move back a little bit, because obviously
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: research is where everything has transformed in terms of the
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: way that we view early child or the way that
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: we view early childhood development, but also the things that
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: are required for a healthy brain to develop and for
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: a healthy child develop. But let's maybe let's go back
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: to the old school mentality just so that we can
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: talk about perhaps some of the symptoms that people might
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: think that is well, it's just normal. It's how because again,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: one of the things that I learned when my son
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: was born, and I think it was about the age
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: of two, and very much your self, full respect to
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: my mum, she did an incredible job. She raised me
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: on her own with my brother since I was six
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: months old. She did the very best that she could
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: with the tools that she had, and she did a
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: bloody good job. Like I consider myself's been incredible human being.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: But one of the things that she didn't necessarily have
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: a grasp on was how to Discipline without Damage, you know,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: which was a great title for a book, Yessa. And
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: one of the things that I did when my son
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: was born, he was about two, was sitting on the
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: couch and I just looked at him and I started
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: to think about all the ways that I was disciplined
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: as a child, because I actually, even a few years
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: ago before my child was born, I reposted that picture
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: that says, you know, I was spanked as a child,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: and I grew up with a condition called respect for authority,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: and so I was a full subscriber to discipline from
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: where I've come from. And then I started to look
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: at my son, and one of my son was born
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: to me. That was one of the most profound moments
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: of my life. It was one of the most purposely
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: driven moment. Was when I finally realized I knew exactly
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: what apart from my purpose in life in business, I knew,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: this is what I'm here to do, and this will
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: enabled me to fulfill my purpose at the highest level,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: to be the best dad possible. But then I looked
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: at this kid, this incredible innocent being, and I started
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: to visualize myself doing all the things that my mom
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: had done to me as a child, and I actually,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: and this is no disrespect to my mum, because she
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: did the best that she could. I started to cry
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: because I just thought to myself, possibly even fathom doing
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: that to a child, let alone my child. But my
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: child kind of brought it home and was at that
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: point I had a very fundamental shift in the way
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: that I viewed you know how I'm going to raise
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: this boy because I hadn't.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Done it, I just visualized it.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: I'd always said to myself, I'm going to I'm going
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: to do it differently, but this was like a there
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: was a gestalt moment, like it was a very strong moment.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: So for those people that are perhaps listening, that are
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: thinking that might be doing some of the things at
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: an old school that in some cases can create maladaptive
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: development in the brain, what are some of the old
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: school eighties techniques that we need to be aware of
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: that aren't necessarily They might be quick, they might be fast,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: but they're not effective long term.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: I love the way you've highlighted this idea of fast.
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: See the reason that we go with these less effective
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: techniques is because they get us a short term result.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: I love what Stephen Covey said. He said fast is
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: slow and slow as fast. So what happens is when
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: we go with that quick fix, we get an instant result.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: But we have to keep doing it again and again
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: and again. It has to get more and more severe
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: for it to must be like addiction.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: Really yeah, yeah, kinda for us and for them. Alternatively,
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: if we get it right at the start by slowing
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: it right down and doing what healthy cone calls working
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: with your children rather than doing things to them, it's
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: a slow start, but boy boy, we create this internalization
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: where over time it gets quicker and easier because they
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: get it. So the obvious stuff is, you know, children
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: should be seen and not heard. The parent is the
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: one with all the control, and parents typically still rely
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: on all these power techniques.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: And it's not just parents, you know. I want to
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: draw this very clear.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: Parallel to to business and team leading and management. This
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: is all leadership. I don't care if you're leading two
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: year olds or forty two year olds. It's all leadership.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: I've walked into the I've walked into the bedroom of
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: my baby girl. She's three and a half now. But
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: when she was about one one and a half, it
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: was the afternoon. You know when the you know when
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: your child is in their cot and they're just gurgling
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: away and they're talking to themselves and they're so happy,
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: and you're like, they've just had their afternoon nap, but
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: they're happy. I'm not going to get them because as
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: much as I love them, they're really happy. And I'm
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: enjoying the peace and quiet and just hearing them gurgle away,
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: and so I'm just listening as I'm getting clucky.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: Clucky right now. It's gorgeous, isn't it.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: And then I kind of I noticed a slight change
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: in the way she was talking to herself, and I
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: was like, I think that she's started to get a
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: bit restless.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: I'll go in there. And as I walked in, she
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: smiled at me, and that smile.
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: Like you are the most important person in my world
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: because you are, yeah, And she smiled at me, and
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: I'm like, Emily, it's so good to see you.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: You're awake. And she held out her hand and I'm like,
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: what she got in a hand?
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: Not that I would let my child sleep with something
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: sharp or dangerous, but I immediately became concerned.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: You know, kids find stuff all over the exactly. And
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: so I've put out my hand, I said, tat to daddy,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: And in my hand she places this little piece of poop.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: Oh, so she's dug into her nappy and she's pulled
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: out a little piece of pool and she put in
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: my hand. Oh that's so beautiful, isn't it. And in
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: that moment, I had this thought. I thought, how do
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: I respond to this? And instantly I thought of the
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: parallels for life, Because every single day in life, whether
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: you're a parent, or an employer, or even just someone
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: walking down the street, somebody that you have some relationship
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: with is going to hand you an unwanted piece of
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: shockingly unexpected grossness.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: I'll translate that he means shit. I didn't say that.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: I said shockingly unexpected. That stuff, I'll translate.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: And when they do that, what kind of a parent
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: or what kind of an employer are we going to be?
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: Are we going to be the kind of of person
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: who starts throwing metaphorical crap all around the room, throwing
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: it back at them?
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: What are you giving me this for? It's not good enough?
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: Go to your room. Go to the corner. Think about this,
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: you're fired this, you're that whether it's for kids or
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: whether it's you know, we're going to hit them, we're
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: going to yell at them, abuse them, or is there
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: another way? And I think that there is.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: And whether you're an adult dealing with adults or an
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: adult dealing with kids. I call it the three e's
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: of effective discipline. But it's much more expansive than just discipline.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: And you've got the book right next to you. I
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: outline this all in the book. The first E is explain,
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: the second E is explore, and the third E is
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: in power. And all of this is couched in or
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: surrounded by empathy. So if I was to summarize the
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: three eas in one sentence, is it is this, do
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: I want to hurt this person? Or do I want
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: to help them? And when we approach discipline from a
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: hurting perspective, just use our power to get the result
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: we want. Sit down, shut up, let me hit you,
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: let me put you in, let me take your iPad
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: off you. I'm in charge. You've upset me.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Done. But that doesn't really do much teaching, It doesn't
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: really much.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Is there a deeper correlation there between people in plain
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: and inflict pain. And if people are still in pain
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: from the way they've been parented, that's going to increase
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: the likelihood of them.
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you're getting a bit Freudian, but no, no, no,
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: but that there is that idea that hurt people, hurt people,
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: and I think that if we can move beyond that
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: and shift our this might sound a little bit woohoo,
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: but if we can shift our heart from my agenda
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: to let me just help you be a better human.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: And that's what this podcast is all about, right, If
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: I can shift my motivation, my intention from a negative
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: energy this is affecting me, and this is how it's
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: affecting me, and I'm ticked off and now I'm going
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: to hurt you because of it, to a positive energy.
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: I value you, I respect You'll have empathy for you,
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: and I want to help you.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: The difference in energy.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Is instant, and it changed that we are talking energy
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: here because I think you can give someone the tools,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: but if they can't regulate their own space and their
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: own energy.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: Energy and intention.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: Great book by David Hawkins called Power Versus Force.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Beautiful book, you know it, oh very well? Right, And
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: this is getting into that there's also.
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: An even I think better book by a guy called
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: Kim Cameron called Positive Leadership, and he talks about creating
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: a virtuous organization.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: Do you know the person I've seen actually demonstrate this
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: at the absolute highest level in the most incredible ways.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: This Sesar Malan. The way he works with dogs or energy.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: So he talks about dogs orcology. He talks about I
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: don't rehabilitate the dog. He says, sorry, I don't train
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: the dog, he says, the dog and I train the
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: owner to have that positive energy exactly because the dogs
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: are often behaving as a result of the way that
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: they've been brought up around the energy. And it's not
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: about the way you discipline the dog. It's the energy
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: that you bring to the conversation with the dog. And
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: he's just done it beautifully.
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: But anyway, so in a quick sentences, do I want
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: to help this person or do want to hurt them?
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: And the three is are about helping, So explain goes
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: like this. Okay, here's an embarrassing one from my home
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: just recently. I've gone into the bathroom and there's an
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: empty cardboard role on the holder.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: There's no paper on it, and that's that's an issue, right.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, you've got six kids shitting every you just
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: want to have to deal with that. You literally have
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: that every day, six kids. We are heavy consumers of
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: toilet paper. Let me And so you walk in there,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: and I remember thinking to myself, I'm quite upset right
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: now because time is of the essence in those moments,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: and I have a need that should be fulfilled here
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: and now I got cardboard.
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: That's right, it's not going to work. And so I paused,
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: and I thought, Okay, do I want to help or
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: do I want to hurt? And part of me did
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: want to hurt right then, but I changed the energy.
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: I was okay, I want to help. So I called
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: an urgent family meeting.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Right then. I raced out of the bathroom and I said,
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: urgent family meeting. Everybody in the living right now.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: And I was holding a toilet roll holder, you know,
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: the piece of cardboard, and they all ran in because
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: you know, when dad says urgent family meeting, everyone gets
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: in the living room straight away. And I've held it
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: up and I've said, we have got a problem. It's
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: a big problem. Somebody's stolen all the toilet paper. I
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: don't know if it was the dog. I don't know
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: if it was the chickens in the backyard. But something
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: has gone wrong here. Can you please please tell me what?
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: What are we going to do to fix this? And
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: so there's two ways to explain. You can either say it.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: But kids and employees they started to go blah blah
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: blah blah blah.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: He's talking again. All it does is talk for goodness sakes.
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: So I like to explain the first time, and I
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: actually explained to the family. I said, imagine if Nan
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: and Pop were here and one of them needed to
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: use the bathroom, and imagine if they got in there
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: and they didn't notice until it was too late there
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: was no paper there.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: That would be embarrassing for them and for us.
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: Nobody wants to see Nan or Pop walking through the
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: living room calling out for toilet paper in that state.
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: That's and the kids are going, you can't answer. The
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: kids are just going, oh, Dad, don't go there.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: And so I did some explaining. I s spend some
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: time explaining, but on once you've explained, and you, I look,
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: it's great to explain and have fun with it. But
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: if you know, some people are saying I have told
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: my child to pick that wet towel up off the
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: floor three thousand times. I'm done explaining now.
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: Explaining is not because I said so, pick the towel up,
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: just because that's what we do.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: That's not explaining.
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: Explaining is did you know that if you leave the
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: towel on the floor, it stinks and the carpet can
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: get mildewed or moldy and it's just horrible.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: That's explain.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: But once you've done that a few times and you've
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: done it properly, if they're still doing it, you get
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: them to explain it to you because you're boring and
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: they're not.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: So you see, we've talked about this.
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: Can you help me to understand why I keep talking
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: to you about this? And you get them to talk
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: and you get to identify the gaps in their knowledge,
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: and it works beautifully in an HR environment as well.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: You get to say, we've talked about this issue of
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: drugs in the workplace three or four times, We've had
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: some very explicit trainings. Can you please explain to me
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: what you understand about this issue. You get to identify
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: the gaps in the world in their knowledge, and you
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: can fill them in. That's explain explaw goes like this.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: In spite of our explanations, you seem to be having
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: a hard time with this. Can you help me to
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: understand what it's like to be you? And I've said
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: this to my teenage and I'm like, it must it
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: must be hard without a prefrontal cortex.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: So help me to understand what every single secret of
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: the universe, and you deal with idiots like me, it's like.
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: And so we have this conversation, and it's really about saying, hmm,
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: you're struggling with this and I don't get why. Can
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: you help me to see why this is so hard
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: for you? And it's really about getting into their space,
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: getting into their headspace, taking their perspective, understanding it from
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: their from their from their world. And then you empower,
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: which means you say, Okay, you know what's expected because
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: I've explained it, or you've explained it to me.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: I get how it is for you because we've explored that.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: I really do understand what it's.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: Like to be ten and have this issue, or you know,
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: be an employee here and have this issue.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: I get it. So where do we go from here?
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: That's what empowerment is it's like, what do you think
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: is the best solution? And this is when we give
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: all the power to the other person.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: Now, this is counterintuitive for a parent to give all
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: the power to their child.
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: And we say, what do you think where too? From here?
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: How do we make this better? If you were in
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: my position? This is a great question for an employer
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: or a parent, If you were in my position, what
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: would you think was appropriate to fix this?
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: And we quite.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: Literally delegate our power to them. Now, if they come
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: up with an idea that's not a good one. If
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: the answer revolves around it some violence or doing nothing
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: or leaving the status quo, or you know, whatever it is,
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: you may say to them something like, well, that's one option.
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: If we were to pursue that to its logical end,
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: how would that end up? Does that really work? Because
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: from my perspective, I can't see it working. What is
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: an alternative? It's like, you know, here's a ball. I
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: want you to kick the ball under the net. Oh,
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: you kicked it out of bounds. I want you to
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: kick it again. Let's keep it within the boundaries. Okay,
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: the net's over there. I don't care how we get
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: it there, but we can't go out of these boundaries.
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: I'm leaving it up to you to work together on this,
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: and so that's a slow process. It could take two minutes,
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: it could take two days, it could take two weeks.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: But what you do is you get this buy in,
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: you get this internalization, and pretty soon they're doing it
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: because they just know it's the right thing to do
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: and they're willing to do it.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: And you're also provoking them to use their brain. You're
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: also provoking thought process.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: You're also provoking the frontal cortex to develop, you know,
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: which is spot on rational problem solving.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But what I'm curious you've kind of and I'm
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: not sure if you've.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: Ordered this deliberately, but the symptoms like this is great
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: and this is slow to be fast. This is how
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: we discipline a shop before we go back to the symptoms.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: I am curious to know because I've got this philosophy.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: You know, speak them like they're a genius, and the
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: genius that become You use quite complex language in the
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: way that you went through your process there with the
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: explain explore in power. Would you use that level of
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: language with like a three or four year old.
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: No, but I would use the same process, and a
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: three or four year old is going to be a
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: lot less verbal. They might regulate their emotions and they
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: behavior a lot less, and the conversation is going to
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: be a lot simpler and a lot shorter, And it
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: might go something like this, what's your.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Little guy's name? Noah? No, that's right.
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: No, I've read about Noah that you might say no.
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: And I know Noah doesn't have a sibling at this point,
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: But let's just say Noah has a little sister and
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: he's a few years older now, and he hurts her,
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: he pinches her, or he scratches or he punches her,
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: or he hits her or you know, takes the train
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: off or whatever it is. And you walk over to
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: Noah and you move him away from the situation. You
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: make sure his little sister's okay, because triage comes first,
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: and once she's calm, you say, no, we need to
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: have a chat. You know, we've got some rules in
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: our house about treating people with respect, and what you
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: just did do was not respectful.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: It made her upset. That's the explaining bit.
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: Or you might even ask him, Noah, when you treat
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: your sister like that how does she feel. That's a
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: much more powerful way to do it, because he's talking
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: and he's also experiencing a level of empathy for his sister,
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: and that's what you really want. You want the empathy
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: not to make him feel guilty, but for help, for
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: helping him to feel exactly. And once you get there,
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: you say, all right, let me understand a little bit.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: Why. Let's just tell me why did you get so
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: upset that you hurt your sister? And so you can
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: put yourself into his shoes and he'll say, well, because
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: she called me a name, or because she took that
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: thing off me first, or whatever, and you're like, I see,
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: so you felt slighted, you felt this, you felt that.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: And when he feels fully understanding, you can say, all right, well,
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: when that happens next time, what do you think is
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: a better way to deal with this situation.
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: It's exactly the same process with a little kid who's
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: three or four, and you can have the conversation briefly. Now,
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: sometimes they just won't talk. I have a seven year
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: old who hates this. She just goes hmmm, and I said, no, no,
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: we need to talk, and she'll say hmm, I'm like,
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: he's not talking, and she's say, at which point I'll
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: give her a hug, and I'll say, right now, you
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: don't feel like communicating about this at all, do you.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: I can see how defensive you feel. This is upsetting
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: for you. We will talk talk about this. We need
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: to resolve this. But why don't you go and have
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: ten or fifteen minutes of quiet time. You can go
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: read a book, you can go for a swim in
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: the pool.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: I don't care what you do, so long as you
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: treat others respectfully, and when we're both a bit calmer,
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: we'll talk about it. Then. A lot of parents and
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: employers think you've got to deal with the crap that's
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: been handed to you in the moment.
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: It's often the worst time to deal with it. Give
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: it an hour, give it a day, give it a week,
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: set an appointment, make it clear that this will be discussed,
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: so that people know that there's a level of accountability,
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: and then let it go till everyone's totally cool. And
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: maybe that night you sit on the edge of their bed,
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: not your employees, but your children. Business look at Yeah,
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: that's right. So you sit on the edge of their
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: bed because they open up at nighttime. They're feeling relaxed,
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: they're feeling calm, and we feel better as well. And
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: we might give their leg of squeeze, we're scratching their
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: back and we say, hey, we need to talk about
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: what happened today.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: And then it's the same process. Explain, explore in power.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: They're cool. So let's now talk symptoms.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: What is the old school ways of discipline a child
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: that just fundamentally that have been proven by the now
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: decades of pediatric research that we have when it comes
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: to neural development and behavioral research that just fundamentally don't work.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: They're quick, yeah, but they don't work. Yeah.
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: So anything that's control based smacking is.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: The number one. And you know, there was a meta.
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: Analysis published a couple of years ago fifty years of
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: smacking research. Now, I want to be clear, this is
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: smacking or is the US calls it spanking research. This
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: is not abuse. This is smacking. And they were very
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: clear with this meta analysis, with these hundreds and hundreds
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: of studies they pulled in. If there's anything that would
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: be into the abusive side, we don't include it. We're
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: just talking about a smack yep. Okay, across the back
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: of the hand or the bottom or whatever it might be.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: Fifty years of smacking research shows that across every variable
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: ever measured, and they pulled out I think I can't
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: remem if it was ten or thirteen variables that seem
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: to matter the most. There is not a shred of
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: credible evidence to support smacking for anything. The only modest
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: finding is that you will get a short term change
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: in behavior. But a fascinating study about eight years ago
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: now by a guy called George Holden, which is one
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: of the who is one of the world's foremost authorities
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: in sacking spanking research showed that even when we smack
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: our kids in seventy three percent of cases, within ten minutes,
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: they're back at challenging behavior again. So when I say
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: short term benefit, we're talking mega short term.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: What are we talking about in terms of long term? Yeah? Significant?
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: So we model poor relationship skills, there's problem solving, problem advance, Yeah,
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: pretty much. Yeah.
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: And research shows that if you bully your kids physically,
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: and that's what's what this really is, then they're more
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: likely to be bullies themselves to their siblings and to
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: others in the playground, and they grow up to smack.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: You know, people say I was smacked as a child
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: and I turned out fine. I grew up with the
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: respect for authority.
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: But the research would suggest that if we were smacked as children,
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: we're much more likely to endore punitive methods ourselves. You know,
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: this is I'm going to go global for a second.
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: I can't remember the researchers were, but about ten years
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: ago a paper was published that showed a significant correlation
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: between a country's endorsement of smacking and you know, physical
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: violence towards children and the likelihood of them being involved
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: in significant global warfare.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: So if you grow up.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: In a country where harsh physical punishment is the norm,
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: you are also growing up in a country where that
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: you're more likely to go to war. And you look
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: at the countries that don't go to war so much.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: Look at those lovely Northern European countries. They've outlawed smacking
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: for decades now they're peace loving countries in the home.
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: Which changes the culture at a global level from the
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: individual to the global Isn't that phenomenal?
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: And it makes the perfect sense when we look at
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: the state of the world right now, and now that
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: is a correlation.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: Okay, there's no way that you can experimentally do this,
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: but a very interesting correlation stick correlation thanking.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: What else? Withdrawal of privileges. So this is where we
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: take their device off them, or we take their ball
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: off them. I'm taking your tonka trunk and I'm going
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: home because I don't like the way you're playing with
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: your sister or your brother.
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: Withdrawal of privileges. Again, the research would suggest that this
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: is a big power play and it doesn't get us
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: a long term result. It just makes our kids hate us.
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: How do we teach kids consequence in a healthy way. Well,
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: this goes back to the whole empowered thing, and I'm
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: so glad that you came back to that. Let me
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: finish the other the other ones very quickly, and we'll
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: come back to that. So there's a time out. I
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: call time out solitary confinement or forcible isolation. The United
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: Nations are half a dozen years ago actually mandated that,
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: you know, it was a violation of human rights put
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: people into solitary confinement, and yet we do it in
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: our homes every day. We've got to stop doing that.
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: Time out not helpful. Time in wonderful.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: Now, let me be clear. Every now and again we
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: might say to our child, this isn't working.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: We need some space.
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: And in fact I did this with play for a moment, yeah,
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: or go somewhere, and my seven year old the other day.
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: This is actually why I was top of mind. She
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: refused to talk to me. She was so rude, and
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: I was like, I won't have you been be so
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: rude to me. I can understand how upset you are,
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: but right now you're being really, really rude. And I
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: said to her, I want to be with you and
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: I want to resolve this with you because I love you.
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: And so rather than giving her a time out, I
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: invited her to be closer, and I explained how I
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: feel about her. I try to draw her to me
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: with my love. You can see again what's your energy
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: and you try to hurt or help. I want to
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: help her, and I said to it, my goal is
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: to help you through this, but you're pushing me away.
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: I said, so I can leave you here in your
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: room until you've calmed down, or we can talk about
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: it now, and she said m And I said, okay.
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: I get a really strong sense from you that you
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: don't want me around right now. Let me be clear
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: that you're choosing to send me away before I go.
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: Would you like a hug? I said, okay. I walked
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: to the door. I opened the door. I said, I'm
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: giving you another chance because I really do want to
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: be with you.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Would you like a hug? I said, okay, when you're
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: ready for a hug, you come get one, because we
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: need to spend time together, and we're going to enjoy
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: our time together more if we're hugging. And I stepped
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: out of the room and I waited about thirty seconds.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: Now she was not punished, she.
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: Was not in trouble, but a consequence of her behavior
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: was that she was isolated from me.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: But she chose it. I didn't put it on her.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: And then I stepped back in. After about thirty seconds,
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: I said, have you calmed down enough for a hug yet?
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: And she gave me the other again.
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: I said, okay, I'm going to go, but I really
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: want that hug, and I know that you want to
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: talk to me, so when you're ready for it, let's
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: do that. It took about five minutes, and after about
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: five minutes, she came to me and she said I
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: think I'm ready for a hug. I said, okay, go
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: back to your room. I'll be there in a second.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: I've just got to finish what I'm doing. So she
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: went to her room. I walked back in about thirty
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: seconds later, and I said, are you sure you're for
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: a hug?
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: And she looked at me funny and sort of half nodded,
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: and I said, if you're ready for a hug, put
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: your hand on your nose. And she put a hand
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: on her knee and we turned it a little bit
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: of a game.
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: And I walked over and I gave her a little
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: tickle and I scratched it back, and I said, it
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: feels good when we can talk nicely, doesn't it. And
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: she sort of snuggled into me and we had a
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: really nice chat. So forcible isolation, it doesn't work. It
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: makes kids hate us. My mom sent me to my
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: room when I was fifteen. I remember the incident quite clearly.
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: My sister had upset me and I said, Karenna, you're
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: just a stupid idiot. And my mom said, justin, we
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: don't speak like that in this house. You say sorry
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: right away, and I said, fine, Karina, I'm sorry. You're
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: a stupid idiot, and mom sent me to my room.
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: Think about what you've done. I worked my room, and
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: I sat down at my desk, and I thought to myself,
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: I am an impediment to my family's happiness.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: I need to be a better brother.
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: And now that I've spent some time in my room,
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: I'm resolving to be a better human as soon as
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: I leave this room. Like no teenager, no kid ever,
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: says that I was like my mom. I hate my mom.
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: She doesn't understand I hate my sister. I'm going to
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: get her back. I plotted my revenge. So that's what
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: forcible isolation or time out does. So they're the standard ones,
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: you know, and there's a handful of other things, but
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: they're the standard ones, yelling, threatening, all that sort of stuff.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: How do and threats actually an interesting one because it
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: often becomes like a real easy default in general conversation,
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: whether you're getting them out of the pool, trying to
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: get them ready for and.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: Then you've got to follow through and you feel like scum.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, so do you how do we get the
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: children to do what we want without even using subtle threat? Yeah? Cool?
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: So this ties back in with your previous question about consequences, okay,
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: because the threat and the consequence are the same. So
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: there are consequences to actions, okay. And it might be
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: that if the kids, let's use the pool example, get
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: out of the pool. You know it's time to leave
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: the beach, just one more swim, and they go in.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: I've got to get the sand off.
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: And then halfway at the beach they fall on the
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: sand and I've got to get the sand off again,
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: and they run back down to the water.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: What we do is we have that conversation, We explain,
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: we explore, and we empower.
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: But the empowered conversation I only told you about the
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: good stuff earlier. There's also the consequence aspect to it
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: as well. Well, I did breeze across it. And that
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: is when they come up with an empowering solution that
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: doesn't actually work, or that fails to acknowledge that there
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: needs to be a consequence. Sometimes we might say, well
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: that's not quite enough. For example, let's not use the beach.
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: Let's use You've broken something that belonged to me or
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: your brother or your sister. You've broken something that was
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: a value. When we say so, what are we going
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: to do to make sure this doesn't happen again. They
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: might say, well, I've got to be more careful and
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: I shouldn't throw balls in the house. Great, that's really important,
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: But what are we going to do about the breakage?
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: Because you need to be accountable for that what's going
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: to happen there? So we empower them to come up
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: with a solution, and the consequence is part of that empowering,
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: so they might have to empowering them. We're not just
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: empowering them to come up with good solutions to make
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: sure stuff doesn't happen in future.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: We're empowering them to use.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: Their or oh a, are their ownership, their accountability, and
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: their responsibility.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: You're not truly empowered unless you're being responsible.
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: And so if they won't get out of the pool,
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: or if they won't repair the damage, or if they
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: won't do this or do that, we need to hold
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: them accountable. So we bring them back into that empowering conversation.
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: We say, I want to help you to be responsible.
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: This will help you to be a better human being.
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: As you take responsibility for your behavior, you'll become a
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: better person, You'll be more trustworthy, you'll be more reliable.
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: You'll become the sort of person that people want to
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: be with because they know they can count on you.
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: So we need you to use your are ownership, accountability, responsibility.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: You've made a mistake here. You haven't done as you
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: were asked, and it was a reasonable request. I gave
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: you a ten minute warning, we're done at the beach.
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: In ten minutes, you stayed for another twenty. You kept
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: going in the water, you wouldn't get in the car,
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: you kept getting sandy. How can we fix this so
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: that this doesn't happen again? What responsibility can you take?
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: You hurt your sister. Now, it's great that you've said
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: that you're not going to get in that situation again,
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: But what else do you need to do that's right?
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: You need to say sorry. Now.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to tell you that you've got to
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: do it right this second, but I want to find
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: out by the end of the day that you've done it.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: You've done it properly. By the way, quick aside, a
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: good apology for anyone, whether you're a child or an adult,
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: should have four elements.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry for what I did, state what you did.
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry that I hurt you, and then state the
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: effect that it had on them. I'm sorry that I
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: hurt you. I know that it made you feel like
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: you can't trust me, and it made you cry. And
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: the last part, which I think is the most important
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: of all, is will you forgive me? Will you forgive me?
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: Matters because it says what I did. You know, when
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: someone says I'm sorry, and everyone says, yeah, that's okay,
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: sometimes it's not okay. And I want my kids to
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: know that sometimes it's not okay. So you ask for forgiveness.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: That's the humility that's really making it right. Will you
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: forgive me?
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: And so we go through these empowering conversations with our
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: children and with our employees, and we say, this is
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: what's happened.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: There may need to be a consequence to this.
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: Isn't it great if you sit down with an employee
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: and say you've failed something that I asked you to do.
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: I've explored where you're coming from. I can see why
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: it all happened. But ultimately this is an hr issue.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: We've got a clear policy and you've failed this policy
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: in a significant way.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: What do you think is the right way forward from here?
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: Isn't it an amazing when you've got an employee who says, well,
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: I don't really want you to, but I suppose I
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: probably deserve a written warning for this and some counseling
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: over it, and you can say, yeah, okay.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: Job done. You give them.
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: They've already told you what the consequence should be, and
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: so that's what we're working towards now. It's really interesting
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: because there's a difference between consequences and punishments. Punishments is
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: when somebody with power does something horrible to another person
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: to make them pay a price. A consequence, in this context,
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: at least, is when the person recognizes that they've done
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: wrong and acknowledges that there is going to be a
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: They actually they're choosing their price in a sense. They're saying, yeah,
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: messed up, and this is what I know needs to
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: happen now, and I accept it. It's such it changes
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: the dynamic. The relationship remains positive and helpful and healing,
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: rather than punitive and punishing and horrible.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: One of the things that I've learned being a parent,
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: also a leader in business, but especially as a parent.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: You know, and I'm talking to someone who's experienced an
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: unusual amount of trauma in my childhood, and it's affected
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: me in a range of different ways. And I'm not
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: here to lay blame on any experience that I've had
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: to just put me in any of the situations that
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, but I'm certainly now more aware of how
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: I got to where I am, especially when we're talking
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: about addiction, right, So I'm an adict.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: I'm very open about this conversation. And I was always
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: very curious about.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: How is it that I developed this desire to want
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: to numb myself and design to want to relieve pain
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: very quickly? And when I started to become a pair
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: of when I started to really research the latest information
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: and around how a child's brain develops and what a
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: child really needs in order for a healthy brain to form,
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: so that they learn how to regulate emotion in healthy ways,
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: so they learn how to regulate stress in healthy ways,
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: so that their brain develops in a way that literally,
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: in almost an automatic nature, it does it for them,
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: so to speak. So one of the things that I've
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: learned about is the importance of safety of children, feeling safe,
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: of children trusting us. And again, when we start looking
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: at the way that we discipline people, or the way
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: that we discipline our children specifically, we really start looking
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: at okay, there's a level of threat there, there's a
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: level of broken potential to break trust. But there's also
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: a level of fear that is inspired that makes these
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: children experience high levels of stress, which has a biochemical response,
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: high levels of emotion that in many cases they haven't
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: got the tools to regulate. But when we look at
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: children and in some cases we go, oh my god,
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: they're in a state, they're having a complete that meltdown,
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: we'reoking to go the last because the logical conclusions the
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: last thing this kid needs right now is a hug,
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: because the assumption is, you know, stimulus response. Well, if
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: I hug this child, all I'm doing is reinforcing that
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: this behavior is okay. Is this still the way that
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: we should be approaching like children having meltdowns in nine
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: and four.
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: Your parents say this all the time. If I hug them,
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: I'm just reinforcing their negative behavior. As bloney, it doesn't
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: stack up. Let's put this into an adult context. You
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: are stressed out, you've gone through something traumatic, You've just
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: had a phone call, you've gone you know, something's just
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: happened right here in front of you. It's traumatic, it's
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: frightened you, it's messed you up, whatever it is, and
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: you're in a really significant emotional state. Maybe you've just
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: had a major conflict with somebody. What do you need
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: right in that moment. Do you need somebody to say,
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: cut it out, stop being so silly, that's enough, go
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: to your room and calm down. Or do you need
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: somebody to say you feel awful, you've just been through,
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: you're really struggling with this.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: Just come here and let me, let me hold you,
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: let me make you feel safe. I think that that's
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: the answer. You know, as adults, we crave it. Let's
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: choose a much simpler example. You're driving home, you're stuck
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: in traffic. You get home half an hour late.
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: You've got a speeding fine on the way home because
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: you were rushing when the traffic finally broke.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: You walk in the door.
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: You've had a blow up with the boss that day,
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: and your spouse or significant other, your partner says to here,
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: if you're going to walk in here looking like that,
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: you're gonna bring that attitude, that negative energy in here.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: You just go to your room. I don't want to
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: see that it doesn't work, does it. As an adult,
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: you walk in and you want them to say, wow,
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: it looks like you've had a rotten day. What can
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: I do to help? Do you need a hug? Do
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: you just want some time? Do you want to sit down?
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: Can I get you anything? And all of a sudden,
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: you feel that bird and that stress start to start
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: to disappear, and you feel safe and you feel like
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: you can fall into their arms and have a little
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: cry or laugh and say you wouldn't believe what happened today.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: And that's what our kids need. That safety and security
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: is exactly what they want. So when they're having a
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: meltdown an aisle four, what we do is we leave
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: the trolley and we get it on the floor with
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: out child and we say, you feel really off right now,
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: you know? I mean, look, rule number one, don't take
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: kids shopping, Just don't. Kids and shopping centers are not
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: a good mix.
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: But if you don't have a choice, if you have
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: got to take them shopping, then then set yourself up
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: for success. Don't take them when they're tired, Give them
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: a treat as soon as they get there, you know,
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: buy them a part of the strawberries as soon as.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: You walk in the door.
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: Let them know, no loll is today, kids, but you
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: can choose anything from the fruit aisle. Will pay for
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: it straight away. I mean a lot of supermarkets giving
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: away free fruit for kids now anyway, and give them
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: a treat, make it special for them, Engage them, let
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: them pull things off the shelves.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: You know, don't stare at your phone. Stare at your
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: child and spend that time with them.
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: If they do have the melt down because they want
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: to have that treat that's on the shelf there, move
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: away to leave the trolley at the service desk, take
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: them for a walk, get outside, let them know that
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: you love them. If they want to lay on the
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: floor and kick and scream, the punch the ground, let
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: them do that, and say, as soon as you're ready
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: for a hard gum right here, invite them in. Invite
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: them in, invite them in, give them their space, and
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: then they'll come to you and I'll calm down.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: And that's been transformational, especially for myself and Noah, because
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: you know I come from background training animals. You know,
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: I've worked with dogs and horses, and again it's what
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: behave you reinforcing by reward, and again the difference being
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: is dogs don't have a prefrontal cortex. Children do, and
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: so their brains develop in different ways. And it's been
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: profound and I just want to really endorse this the
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: level of transformation that I see in Noah when he
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: is having those moments where.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: He is overwhelmed. He and you literally look at me
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: and go, okay.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: Now I can look at you and go, I can
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: see you don't actually have the mental capabilities to deal
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: with the level of emotion you've got running through your
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: brain right now.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: So I'm just going to get down to your level.
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: I'm going to hold you nice and tight and just.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: Whisper words, buddy, it's okay, you're safe, you're all right,
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: everything's going to be okay. And then slow down and
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: look at me and go look at me, buddy, look
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: at me. You must be frustrated right now, you must
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: be experiencing see that you're experiencing highlevels of emotion right now,
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: and I want you to know it's okay, buddy, it's okay,
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: and we'll get through this together. And we'll get and
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: I say, and I've taught him. Now we'll take a
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: deep breath, Come on, And he's the only child that
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: I've met before that when he starts getting a little
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: bit hyped up, when he's getting upset, I can say
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: to him across room, Noah, take a breath, and he'll.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: Look at that. Beautiful. Yeah, incredible.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: But then the transformation that takes play, and again parents
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: are looking at it, and you fucking teach your child
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: will worship, so that you should be teaching your child.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: You know, you receive the judgment, you see the judgment,
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: but the power in the process you're talking about, it's
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: just phenomenal. But look, there's a lot of parents out
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: there that are dealing with high stress situations. And one
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: of the things that I've learned about now is the
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: importance of teaching our kids how to deal with stress
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: by showing them how to deal with it. Now, teaching
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: kids how to deal with pain by showing them how
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: to deal with it, because what I've learned from my
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: own experience is, but I wasn't taught how to deal
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: with pain in a very healthy way, and I wasn't
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: taught how to regulate pain in a very healthy way.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: Because you know, my parents, or one of my parents
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: weren't necessarily able to do that, which when the moment
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: a quick fix was introduced, it made it very easy,
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: because oh, that just makes it easy. And again, I
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: don't want to be saying to parents that we do.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: Great book and maybe you've heard of it's called written
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: by a guy called James Oliver. It's called They Fuck
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: You Up. It's actually a book on parenting called They
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: Fuck You Up. And it literally talks about how parental
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: induced to trauma dramatically increases.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: The risk of addiction, the risk of ADHD, the risk.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: Of juvenile criminal behavior, and all these other attributes, which
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: is really quite fascinating but one of the most devastating
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: things that can happen to a family unit or perceived
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: to be, which I'm finding out isn't necessarily the truth
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: right now. But what's interesting is both my wife and
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: myself we come from families that experience divorce at very
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: young ages.
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: Which also transfers into generationally, and all the research shows
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: much higher risk if you come from that family.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: But what's interesting is the level of dedication that both
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: my wife and I have to demonstrating, you know. And
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: it's interesting because Vanessa's talking about this is the title
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: of the next book, Divorce without Damage. You know where
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: it can It is possible to go through separation and
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: to go through a divorce without actually creating and then
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: any additional trauma that can create long lasting impacts that
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: can affect the trajectory of that child's entire life. And
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: you've only got to look at the data of what
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: happens to what are the increased probabilities and variables of
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: a child that goes through divorce. It's not necessarily a
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: good looking scenario. It's not a pretty picture, but there
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: is a way that we can approach it in no
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: healthy I'm in the middle of this myself, and I'm
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: not saying it's easy.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: It's not.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: It's very difficult because we have to put our shit,
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: our beliefs, our control to the side. But what are
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: some of the things that we can do as parents,
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: perhaps are in the early stages of a separation or
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: in the midst of a divorce. That might be a
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: little bit messy, because I think one of the things
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: that parents do is they put themselves first, not the kids,
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: and that means the mistake, right, how do we as
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: parents get our head around the potential of and I'm
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: going to say it bluntly that if we don't deal
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: with separation, well, if we don't deal with divorce, well,
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: we are going to potentially fuck this kid up for
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: life in ways that we will never in some cases
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: truly understand because we don't understand the development of a
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: child's brain at that level. How do we first of
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: all understand the importance, but secondly, how do we go
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: through a separation. How do we go through a divorce
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: and put the kids first and actually do it in
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: a healthy way that will enable them to live the
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: increase the probability and living healthy life.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: You need to be a pretty enlightened individual. That's the
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: reality of it, because there's so much emotion, there's so
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: much baggage aligned with it. A couple of things. First
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: of all, you want to treat.
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: Your X as a business partner or as a business client.
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: And the reason for that is you're very, very rarely
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: going to send your business clients text messages at one am,
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: calling them names and telling them what you really think.
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: No matter how you feel about that business client, they're
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: keeping your business afloat, and you're going to treat them respectfully.
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: You're going to bend over backwards to make sure that
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: they feel satisfied.
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: Now, if both parties can do that, we're already off
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: to a really, really, really good start.
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: I'm going to say, but if we can't have both
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: parties doing that, at least one part in this.
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: At least yeah, I ideally both, but if both for
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: whatever reason because of their own stuff, can't and by
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: the way, can't means don't want to. You know, if
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: one of them doesn't want to because they've got too
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: much pride, too much anger, too much business, too much resentment,
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: we really do need to bend over backwards to see
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: this person as a business partner, a business client.
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: So that's the first thing. The second thing, just don't
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: speak badly about your ex to your kids. Just don't.
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: It really is, it's so damaging and anyone who's been
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: in this situation. I've talked to so many people who
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: have been through this, The damage that's done, and somebody's
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: always going to do it. But don't be the one,
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: because once the kids do get older and they do
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: become adult, one day, they're going to be like, you know,
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: I'm being gendered here purely.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: I'm not picking on anyone I'm just going to say, Mum, Mum,
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: you always gave Dad the benefit of the doubt. You
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: never seen any bad about him.
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: Dad's constantly been saying horrible things about you, you know,
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: And and over time I've started to see that the
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: person who's doing the horrible stuff is actually the horrible one.
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: You need to stand on high ground. In addition to that,
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: there's a handful of things that I think we can
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: do to really help things to go well. Number one,
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: stay close geographically. Once you've got parents are living into
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: state or even a few hours away from each other,
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: it's just so hard for the kids. You ideally want
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: the kids to be able to go to the same
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: school regardless of whose house they're living in. You want
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: them to have access to the same resources, the same friends,
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: the same opportunities, regardless of whether they're living in mum's
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: house or dad's house or you know, partner one partner too.
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: How important is it for children to have that level
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: of consistency and at what age does it not become
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: an issue when changing schools, for example, because maybe one
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: parent moves across the other side of the city, Like,
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: is there a level of importance placed on something as
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: simple of what school that they go to.
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that it really matters.
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: And as a couple, as a business client to business
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: client kind of relationship, you sit down and you say,
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: you know how I feel about this, I know how
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: you feel about this. Be when we just pause and
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: work out what's going to be in the best interest
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: of our child.
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: Let's check the ego at the door. Please, no egos.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: We're just in here.
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: We're having a conversation together about the child's best interest,
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: and that's really where we've got to focus. You know,
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: my job here is not to hurt you or not
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: hurt the child. My job here is to help. It's
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: a question that pervades all of our relationships. So we
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: want to make sure that we're close geographically. We want
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: to make sure that financial resources are somewhat equitable. That
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: can be really challenging. But one of the biggest issues
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: that parents will say is that when I go to Dad's,
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: it feels like I'm on holidays. I've got the big
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: screen TV, I've got the modern house, so yeah, Disneyland,
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: Dad Mom's well, Mom's just mom hasn't got the money,
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: she hasn't got the resources, and the other thing aligned
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: with that is we don't want to just give dad
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: weekends and holidays. Dad should be to the extent that
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: it's possible involved in the day to day care because
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: otherwise that is just the fun guy. And Mum does
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: have to do all of this stuff and it gets
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: really hard. So there are a couple of things to
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: bear in mind. There's a lot more. And I think
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: that rather than me waffling on about it Vanessa's book
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: about divorce withou Damage, it'd probably be a really nice
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: place to be.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: Well, sheill, she's only still in the early stage. She's
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: putting it together. She's putting it together right now. She said,
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: it's a work in process, which is fantastic.
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: Mate.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: Last, but not least, if there was one incredible piece
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: of advice you give to every single parent out there
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: that is tried, true, tested and guaranteed to give them
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: an effective outcome every time, what would that be?
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: Oh? Wow, no pressure, no pressure at all.
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: Look, I'm going to I'm going to shift the question
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: a little bit because ultimately, so long as the okay,
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: the short answer is let your kids know that they
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: matter in everything that you do and say everything that
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: you do and say. But I'm going to pick up
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: this book that I've left on the desk here for
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: a sec. So my new books called Ten Things Every
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: Parent Needs to Know, And in the book, I've dedicated
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: the book to every parent who wanted to be better.
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: So read the book unless you want to be better anyway.
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: But in the book, I give this, I guess advice.
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: I guess you'd call it advice. And I think that
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: this is the most important thing that any parent can know,
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: and it's probably more about you than it.
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: Is about the kids. And I've said this, I'm going
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: to read it. Do you mind if I read? Please?
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: If we're going to have a book reading, reading right now?
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: Okay, into the big And in addition to the big
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: ideas that I've shared in this book, there's one more
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: thing that I believe every parent needs to know when
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: it comes to child rearing. You are good enough as
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: a parent who is intentional and devoted. You will feel
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: like a failure a lot. It's inescapable. You will be
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: your own worst critic now and then others might criticize
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: you as well, even if they're well meaning. Your partner
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: might point out a parenting failure. Your parents are in laws,
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: but your own children may also highlight a hypocrisy or inconsistency.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: I say you don't care, but it still hurts.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: Some days will be worse than others, but that feeling
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: of inadequacy, the never enn in question of am I enough,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: will be present persistently. Now I'm going to skip through
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: a little bit here, and I just want to be clear.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: You are enough. You need to believe that. I've said this.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: In the novel ninety three French Victor Sorry, French writer
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: Victor Hugo wrote, she broke the bread into two fragments
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: and gave them to her children, who ate with eagerness.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: She hath kept none for herself, grumbled the sergeant. Because
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: she's not hungry, said a soldier. No, said the sergeant,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: because she is a mother. It's almost impossible to put.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: Into words the depth of love that we feel as
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: parents towards our children. As Cordela explained in Shakespeare's King
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: Lear when speaking of her love for her parents, my
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: love's richer than my tongue. I cannot heave a bit emotional.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: My love is richer than my tongue. I cannot heave
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: my heart into my mouth.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: I love that when we think about our kids, the
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: feelings in our heart we just can't possibly put into words.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: If you feel that way towards your children, then you
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: are enough. The endless laundry, the thankless tasks related to
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: maintaining your home, the challenges children provide each compounds to
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: make us feel like it all might be too much,
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: and Instagram makes look like everyone else is doing it
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: so well. They get their pre baby body back in
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: five weeks, their meals all look like they've come from
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: a hatted restaurant kitchen, and they seem to have so
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: much more time to spend doing meaningful activities with their children.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: The surest way to feel poorly about your parenting is
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: to compare yourself with others, especially when you're mostly on
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: to get to see their highlights.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: Real let me be really clear about this.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: Parenting is as much about the good times on Instagram
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: as it is about those moments you would never want.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: Anyone to see. It's about how we respond to the
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: ruining thos is the fussy eating, the wet beds, the
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: soiled underwear, or the puddle on the carpet that provides
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: evidence that the toilet training still has a way to go.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: It's about how we respond to the complaints that my
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: legs are saw and I can't.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: Walk on tired mornings, the lost school jumpers, and the
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: never ending sibling challenges that confront every parent of more
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 3: than one child. Our responses to those micro moments that
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: occur endlessly, day in and day out set the foundation
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: for our children's lives. Right back to what you were
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: talking about, Cohen, it's our response to that little stuff
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: that actually sets the foundation. Last couple of lines, as
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: you respond with patience, kindness, understanding, compassion, and a desire
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: to help rather than hurt.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: You're doing enough. You're doing all that's required. You're growing,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: you're loving, and you are enough as a parent. You're
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: doing work that will never be seen by anyone beyond
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: your family. But the value of that foundation that you
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: lay will last for generations.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: Beautiful, Beautiful, beautiful something so doctr Juckston Colston. If people
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: want to find out more about the book, the ten
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: Things every Parent needs to Know are positive solutions for
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: everyday parenting challenges.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: Where can they find out more? Look, it's all online.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: Happy families dot com dot au is where you find
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: everything about me. I love to speak, I love to work,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 3: I love to write. I love to make a difference
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: in people's lives.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: So you're very, very passionate, very invested man, Dr Justin Colson,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: thanks for me. Good on your thanks Curl. Cheers mate.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: There you have it, guys, thanks to tuning into Unstoppable
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: with me your host kurw and Ray, and do me
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: a favor.
• 1:03:43
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• 1:03:46
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• 1:03:47
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• 1:03:49
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• 1:03:49
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  Speaker 1: Kirwan Rae