Latest / The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen / 554 - Why Is A Progressive Millennial Lawyer Fighting So Hard To Save The South Vietnamese Flag? - Tracy Nguyen

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554 - Why Is A Progressive Millennial Lawyer Fighting So Hard To Save The South Vietnamese Flag? - Tracy Nguyen · The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Vietnamese podcast today.
• 0:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have another lawyer, tracing wing, who's properly barred in the state of California.
• 0:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean that up because of the recent press secretary of the White House, who was not barred or did not go to law school.
• 0:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it seems.
• 0:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I want to start by saying that Tracy and I have very different views about the erasure of history.
• 0:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that I've really fully figured it out yet for myself.
• 0:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I have some feelings because of the way you message me recently about the idea of erasure.
• 0:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we are going to show
• 0:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: the community, how we can disagree, vehemently disagree with each other, I may need not, but I think in my soul, it does say that I'm going to push back a bit and how we're going to do this in a way that is like, you know, when people train in jujitsu, they get on the mat and then they train, but we don't,
• 1:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: loose control and like start attacking.
• 1:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she has it, right?
• 1:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: But we're here to train.
• 1:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're really here to train on the map and go, we're going to we're going to wrestle and we're going to work it out.
• 1:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And in order to work it out, it's going to require energy and an expensive idea isn't in stuff like that.
• 1:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: So welcome to the podcast.
• 1:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for having me on.
• 1:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I really respect you for what you do.
• 1:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think there needs to be that voice in our community.
• 1:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I just appreciate you always just being open to both views because that is what we need, right?
• 1:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: We talk about, we look at how contentious society is, right?
• 1:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Are we just adding to that?
• 1:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like we're one people.
• 1:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why are we so divided?
• 1:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the largest one is on-click, that's what I mean.
• 1:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is embarrassing to me, right?
• 1:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: We are one people.
• 1:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm going to remind all of the people out there that, um, you know, I say this all the time, uh, people who are on the other side of progressives and liberals, I welcome.
• 1:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know where you stand to be honest with you.
• 2:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know that politically you seem to be somewhere around the vicinity of where I float, but I think that there are other things that we don't share.
• 2:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm curious about all of this and the nuances of who you are because usually it's like back and white for me, right?
• 2:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: But when I spoke to Tracey La, I realized there's nuances to me in her where we're kind of like the same political affiliation, but the way she goes about it is not the way I would go about it.
• 2:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then like to be called like a communist or you know, it's red baiting and it's a lot of these things that are not fair and it's not conducive to conversation.
• 2:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I invite everybody to, you know,
• 2:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: there is a you know your election cycle you're campaigning let's go let's talk about this so again welcome Tracy and my first question really if we can get into it is you believe that we should be preserving I mean I
• 3:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't talk for me to say, but the old government history, South Vietnam's government history, the flag and all those things that come with it, you feel very, very, very, very, very strong that we should not erase it.
• 3:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I would say.
• 3:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I feel a deep, deep sadness about this, right?
• 3:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I feel that, you know, from what I understand the history, right?
• 3:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was two countries, South and North Vietnam.
• 3:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I believe that we are the last of this, I'll be the newest people, that bloodline, right?
• 3:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And now it's just, Vietnam is like one country.
• 3:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there's no South and North, right?
• 3:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's, I don't know if I can say that's fully where our identity comes from, right?
• 3:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a struggle I still am trying to work through, right?
• 3:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: But,
• 3:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that the red-baiting needs to stop.
• 3:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's one thing, right?
• 3:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is not clear.
• 3:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not clear.
• 3:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's red-baiting.
• 3:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like when they basically claim that someone is a communist, right?
• 3:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then you've got against them, but really they may not be a communist, but they have communist views, but they spit it that way to use it against them.
• 4:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's how the red-baiting.
• 4:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think what happened with Tracey, Tracey Law, right?
• 4:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: First off, let me be transparent.
• 4:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is my friend.
• 4:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Tracy Laws, my friend, Carl also said, friend, they're my good friends.
• 4:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was at their wedding recently, a couple months ago.
• 4:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And actually, I talked to Tracy Law this morning, because I felt like if I'm going to go to this show, I did not know that.
• 4:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, if I'm after I talk to you, if I'm going to go to the show and I'm going to post my friend who is doing her best in the community, I need to give her that respect.
• 4:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I need to give her that call.
• 4:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I felt,
• 4:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: like, and it's been weighing on me like for months now, right?
• 4:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: It just months because I'm so torn between my friend who I believe does get in the community.
• 4:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because you know what?
• 4:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: When are people being deported?
• 4:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Who was on the ground running?
• 4:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Get rise.
• 4:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's not deny that.
• 4:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's give them credit for what they did.
• 4:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And collect a freedom of towel high.
• 4:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just want to put that out there.
• 4:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, right.
• 4:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there's a lot of you in our community who do a lot for us, right?
• 4:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we have to acknowledge when they do that.
• 4:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it's not fair to make it seem like she's somebody who's done nothing or she's just this corrupt person don't color communist.
• 5:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this is where I have an issue with.
• 5:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'll be honest because I I.
• 5:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would say with the idea of the marriage like I'm self-enhanced.
• 5:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm on the side of the elders, right?
• 5:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: However, I do believe there's a fair point that they have not made.
• 5:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: They have not considered our side.
• 5:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Even, and I'm not even talking about me because I'm second generation, the first of the American Vietnamese born kids, right?
• 5:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: So my mom is a refugee, a bookperson.
• 5:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, you know, how that is, the stories are like very similar, you know, I'm trying to escape from me now many times.
• 5:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: The first time she went, her auntie and her cousin and her other cousin with her.
• 5:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: He gave her, you know, how they are like tiny little boats that honestly are not made for these well waves.
• 5:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they're taking those to other countries.
• 5:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so that night when they got to the beach to escape to the boat, the guy was like, there's only room for like 10 more people.
• 5:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not,
• 6:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: There is a pain to our history.
• 6:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's a story that stories I hear about this brutal treatment and the things that we had to do.
• 6:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I also fortunately I'll share now, or maybe two years ago when I was kind of staying on Derek.
• 6:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: There are a few ways to get out of it and I'm doing the war.
• 6:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: One was refugee boat people.
• 6:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: The other was, you know, helicopter.
• 6:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: The other was walking through Cambodia.
• 6:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I met a man two years ago about your enough ago.
• 6:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Who walked the Cambodia for 300 years straight, a little bit of a year straight, and he got through.
• 6:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 6:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he made it.
• 6:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And now he's here.
• 6:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: His kids are like very successful.
• 6:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: His grandkids now.
• 6:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: But you look at that desperation to leave.
• 6:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: We would not have left if we didn't have to, wouldn't do, you know, workforce to, right?
• 6:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, to me, it's like this whole loss, about the same time, we are should be grateful that we're here.
• 6:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, the good comes with a bad, right?
• 6:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: We have this horrible story of loss of self-it-mom, but yet we're given this life here, and a country that we have more rights, right?
• 6:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, the idea of freedom of speech, I wouldn't say freedom of speech is just like, so much more now, but my parents got here.
• 7:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was, we had those rights, we had those rights fully, right?
• 7:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think there is this a complicated thing, and we can't look at it black and white.
• 7:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not fair that everybody involved.
• 7:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard for me to damn get on the side of like holding all this painful representation.
• 7:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Look.
• 7:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have sympathy and compassion for all who lives who are lost and property.
• 7:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's those two things seem to be the biggest thing that people keep talking about, like, property and lives that were lost.
• 7:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, those two things are property's money and that's all that and lives that were lost.
• 7:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I get it and identify with that pain.
• 7:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I really do.
• 7:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: We went through all that, but at the same time, I'll ask you, how do we move forward?
• 8:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 8:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: If we are...
• 8:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: holding on to the symbol.
• 8:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not saying let's erase our three-shrife fly, but I'm saying that there needs to be dialogue on how to move forward as it relates to two flags.
• 8:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've always said that from day one, six, seven years ago from my podcast.
• 8:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: How do we move forward?
• 8:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's two...
• 8:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: fucking flasked out.
• 8:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: What do you do if you're on the side of non-Eurasia, which I completely understand, and I can't fight this word, Eurasia, because that's what it is, right?
• 8:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm probably asking for, hey, let's just forget about this street fried flag as it relates to the progress of all of us who want to go to a soccer game in America,
• 8:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: If Vietnam comes to America to play soccer, then U.S. government would recognize the red flag in the yellow star.
• 9:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying that that's my heritage.
• 9:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: My heritage comes from the yellow flag with the three stripes out the same time.
• 9:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a complexity to this conversation that nobody wants to address.
• 9:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: So here we go.
• 9:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like this, okay?
• 9:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: We want our people to embrace and love that heresh flag, but yet a large population of our order of these Vietnamese generation will dawn that flag with a Trump flag.
• 9:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so what does that mean to the younger generation?
• 9:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: What message do they send us?
• 9:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's very conflicting, right?
• 9:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because we're supposed to be proud of these selfies and that is our flag.
• 9:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that is our flag that is supposed to represent anti-communism, right?
• 9:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: But now we have a bunch of people who really have very large loud voices, not large, loud voices, right?
• 9:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: and they are completely pro-shrong, and we get called communist as the younger generation for let's say being opposed to Trump or supporting BLM movements, right?
• 9:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: So what message are they sending to the younger generation?
• 9:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we have to be fair in that, right?
• 9:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think that's very fair, because where is the population of older Vietnamese people who speak up and say, no, that's wrong.
• 10:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Trump is wrong.
• 10:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: We don't see that.
• 10:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think we see more of the pro Trump tying that to the heritage flag because all the people who would oppose what you just said is just
• 10:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: more Americans and they they stay out of the community and they don't want to get involved them unless you're like part of like a organization like pivot right but for the most part these educated elites you know call what it is they got money they why would they want to bother with the Vietnamese community and be like oh I got you young people's backs
• 10:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a waste of their time.
• 10:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then like I'm here, yeah, it is.
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's foolish.
• 10:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: What are we trying to do?
• 10:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Are we trying to teach our number ones?
• 10:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Are we trying to alienate them from us?
• 10:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe in our history.
• 10:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's a problem that we can't solve because the volume and the amount of people here in...
• 11:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: America and all these enclaves there's just so many of them that for them to separate the nuance of what you're trying to say like separate the idea of Trump and the yellow flag is very, it's like impossible, how to how to
• 11:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's try to be critical thinkers and try to improve in our thinking, right, try electrical thinking.
• 11:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not always black and white, and I wouldn't be here if it was black and white, right?
• 11:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to pose the third side, the gray side, the all the complications between, right?
• 11:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I wanted to respectfully, because you know what?
• 11:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do respect our elders.
• 11:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: There is a large population of them who've done so much good for our community like Dr. Gue, who is my mentor, right?
• 11:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I credit her for a lot of my growth in the last eight, nine years, right?
• 11:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I served on her board for a long time.
• 11:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Maxie, when Kiel, okay.
• 11:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and she's the commission.
• 11:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, Medochemissions.
• 11:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're now in Project Navoundation, right?
• 11:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I need to write Medochemissions Prep done to.
• 11:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was right hand for a long time, right, advising her and things.
• 11:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there is this also belief that if we go back to them and we help people in like the Medochemissions Prep, way, oh, they're communist.
• 12:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: So.
• 12:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: What is it?
• 12:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: What is communist?
• 12:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, what, what is our older generation defining as communism?
• 12:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is it like everything?
• 12:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, or are you just picking and choosing when you want to focus?
• 12:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because we are not aligned with you guys.
• 12:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then what is even communism mean when they're throwing that label at young people?
• 12:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because
• 12:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: The, I just saw him go shaking Dolam's hand, I just saw Trump shaking Xi Jinping's hand.
• 12:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: So is being a promise about thing?
• 12:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
• 12:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: What do we talk about?
• 12:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
• 12:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
• 12:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: We do it.
• 12:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Some McCarthyism.
• 12:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: What we're doing is you're trying to,
• 12:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: throw this like slander on people and say communism when communism today but recognize by US government standards is fine.
• 12:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
• 12:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Who gow is shaking hands with all of them?
• 12:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 12:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And President Trump is shaking hands with Xi Jinping.
• 12:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like let's figure this out people.
• 12:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what I wanted to say, right?
• 12:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I see a lot of similarities and how the result after the Vietnam War and like, we're seeing an interim administration.
• 13:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, my mom told me, you know, back when they were ended.
• 13:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you're part of the self or a general or something in the military or just support the self, you could not get an education and you can own a business.
• 13:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: What does that mean for the your future generations?
• 13:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Poverty.
• 13:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: We know education is the way out of poverty.
• 13:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, it leads me to this idea of understanding your the adults, right?
• 13:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: have we ever really signed because why did they push education so hard?
• 13:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why was getting a minus so bad for that first generation?
• 13:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was here the second generation I was born here, right?
• 13:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because the end result from the war that when we lost, we lost that opportunity, right?
• 13:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's why education is so important.
• 13:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the point we bring in that up is we've got to ask the wise to everybody.
• 13:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Instead of just shouting out them or telling them, listen to me because I say so.
• 13:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And one thing I preach to the kids that I mentor is,
• 13:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: question authority.
• 13:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, but just because my mentor tells me something, I'm not going to say, okay, back, okay, let's do it.
• 13:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Backsy, you know, I question her a lot, and I don't mean it in a bad way, and she knows that.
• 13:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: But Vietnamese culture when we asked the question, man, we're home.
• 14:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're talking back, right?
• 14:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there's like this, we're at hierarchy in our community that almost surpasses our generation, but we had this weird expectation for them.
• 14:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that really comes from this idea of this as I'm setting this over and over and over again.
• 14:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Communism is something that doesn't work and I always say that communism does not work.
• 14:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's how I feel.
• 14:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think.
• 14:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you could see them being on today.
• 14:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 14:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: We are a pseudo capitalist society.
• 14:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
• 14:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then America is brought into it.
• 14:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm so focused at.
• 14:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we're screwed.
• 14:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the word communism is like the idea of it is gone.
• 14:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: However, the theoretical side of like the equality, the struggle between the political, the bourgeoisie, all of that, like I get the theory of all of it.
• 14:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: However,
• 14:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think any of this is about communism, and here's what it's about.
• 14:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's really what it's about, and I talk about this over at Loseg on TV across the street.
• 15:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: The idea is that communism was a framework.
• 15:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that fits very well with Confucianism, Lucianism is what?
• 15:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Control, Asian people, fucking need control.
• 15:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: We need you as younger people.
• 15:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: The fucking listen to what we say.
• 15:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can't have your own ideas.
• 15:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: So is it communism, which it is, or is it Confucianism, which it also is?
• 15:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Or is it fucking control?
• 15:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's the three deadly seas.
• 15:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Communism, control, and comfort.
• 15:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Can you say this is like the identity of like the older Vietnamese people?
• 15:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 15:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: These are not just some Koreans, it's Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese.
• 15:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's all over Asia.
• 15:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is how we control the countries.
• 15:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we got to like, as an American,
• 15:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: of what the fuck that is.
• 16:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: So when you call somebody a communist, it's heavy.
• 16:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's heavy, but is it accurate?
• 16:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, I think most times it's not accurate, right?
• 16:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm being called a comment, so I'm not a Trump supporter.
• 16:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't make sense to me because what I think Trump sounds for is closer to the comments.
• 16:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they're saying, you know, so, and I think the fear is that
• 16:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't look at our war and our history as a bad thing.
• 16:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't look at it as like, oh, this is like, bold in that we're carrying the sadness.
• 16:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I look at it as a pride.
• 16:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I look at it as we are people of resilience and perseverance and strength, right?
• 16:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: To make it across that ocean, to walk through Cambodia for a year straight down.
• 16:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: That shit is so powerful and I am so deeply proud to be South Vietnamese, to be Vietnamese, right?
• 16:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, I do wanna country, that I can say, this is my other home.
• 16:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: The difference is when we are born here, I feel like most minorities have this feeling of we have to earn our position in America, even though we're born here.
• 17:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is my home country, not my house country, but I always feel to this day, I have to earn my position in this country.
• 17:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Where as I go to Vietnam, I'm not a minority.
• 17:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: No one judges me for fucking being Vietnamese.
• 17:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: But are we Vietnamese though?
• 17:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do they see us as Vietnamese?
• 17:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
• 17:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think they do.
• 17:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think they do.
• 17:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 17:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think the absolute least of people I come into contact with, right?
• 17:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if they don't fucking fight me on it.
• 17:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 17:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I.
• 17:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is so like the all these things are so nuanced.
• 17:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't feel fully Vietnamese American in Louis, I go on because I'm from LA and then I don't feel fully like I'm a public in a US Marine because I did that 25 years ago and it's part of my roots of who I am and what I go to Vietnam to visit family and be in Vietnam, which is often, I'm not.
• 17:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not from there.
• 17:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't born there.
• 17:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know where the fuck I belong sometimes.
• 17:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't, I really don't know.
• 18:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that I don't, I can't claim anywhere.
• 18:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: All I can do right now is just be curious and ask questions, you know?
• 18:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 18:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think what we mix up is this idea of this white night American, like, you know, the American war, war, war boss, right?
• 18:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's where the problem is.
• 18:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I want to separate this idea of American colonialism and American military involved in it now.
• 18:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I want us to reflect on the story of it being just a self-emotional perspective.
• 18:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Not there's American people coming in and trying to put us whatever it is, because I do believe that they do not play a good role.
• 18:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not on the side of the American people.
• 18:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm literally on the side of just a self-idemies, not the Americans, which is very conflicting, right?
• 18:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is.
• 18:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is so conflicted.
• 18:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: That I've been sparring with behind the scenes, I'm not a name name, so I'm not going to.
• 18:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: But he's like on his thing, is like colonialism is better than communism.
• 18:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, at least it's the same thing, doesn't it?
• 18:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, come on, bro.
• 18:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's logical here.
• 18:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Neither one of them are good.
• 18:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Communism in communism.
• 18:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's strictest form is not good.
• 18:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 18:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And colonialism is not good.
• 18:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Neither of these things are good.
• 19:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Confucianism is not good.
• 19:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's control.
• 19:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: And being all American is also not good.
• 19:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 19:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: We've got to be able to critique all the systems.
• 19:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 19:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that is such a crucial point.
• 19:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's to be critical, everything.
• 19:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't say it.
• 19:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't just do crucial told.
• 19:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do because you understand yourself in the logic behind it.
• 19:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't, don't, you got to, you got to question us already.
• 19:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: So let's go back to this whole flag thing, right?
• 19:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: So this whole flag thing, this is yellow flag with the three stripes.
• 19:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am at the point, and I'm older than you, and I should be in the camp that protects that flag.
• 19:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 19:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: The flag in the through shape.
• 19:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: We call it Backway, right?
• 19:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Or they call it Backway in Vietnam.
• 19:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a derogatory term for like through stripes, but I feel very squeamish.
• 19:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Protecting you the fuck cuz I don't believe in that like leaning into nationalism Mm-hmm.
• 19:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I believe like we should just all be like fucking open borders, but I yeah, I got I know that's very Very extreme.
• 19:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right happy places It's an extreme and of course.
• 20:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Don't hold me for that.
• 20:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I cuz I don't think that that works either
• 20:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I do believe we as the brand of modern Vietnamese have to find a way to make sense of these two identities.
• 20:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and that's where the problem is because I don't think that conversation wants.
• 20:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: They don't want to have the conversation, like everybody, everybody.
• 20:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like young and old, right?
• 20:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I see the polarization from both sides.
• 20:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I see the younger ones getting really upset.
• 20:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I see the older ones getting really upset too and pushing each other away.
• 20:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think both sides need to be a little more open.
• 20:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I agree and let's just call it out when you say the government of Vietnam I'm just gonna call it out and I'm not trying to put anybody down But if there is no recognition that motherfuckers died on the ocean.
• 20:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we got a problem Yeah, because you know the winners right history right after the problem and if you're not talking about it Or if you don't do how difficult is it to just say oh my god, we're fucking sorry.
• 20:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes a lot of people we
• 21:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, too much of a movie and stuff like that.
• 21:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't give a fuck if you lost 20 people on the ocean.
• 21:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't had a lot of loss and I agree with you.
• 21:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: One isn't that one isn't that one is too much actually.
• 21:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just call it out.
• 21:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the crazy thing is like whoever's running the country and I'm today are not, they're not old enough to be responsible for what happened in the 70s and the 60s, right?
• 21:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, so what's it to anybody to say?
• 21:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know what?
• 21:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the South government, you guys have to flee, we to control the country, a lot of people died, we recognize that, we recognize your soldiers and we're looking for bodies too.
• 21:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: because America and Vietnam's government work together.
• 21:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: They weren't together behind the scene.
• 21:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 21:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: What the fuck are we doing out here at like, still struggling with these questions when the two governments are like shaking heads?
• 21:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's frankly, let's be real.
• 21:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: They felt they did not want to be the bad, horrible country in the world.
• 22:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, America.
• 22:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's be real, right?
• 22:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I believe they only took us in to not look like horrible things.
• 22:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because they get Afghanistan, they didn't care about optics.
• 22:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: They said I'd get the help back, you know, go back to your country.
• 22:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: But we were lucky.
• 22:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: We were lucky.
• 22:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: We were lucky.
• 22:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: We were lucky.
• 22:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe that's because we are the model minority.
• 22:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, right?
• 22:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why our people are lucky.
• 22:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: But we are extremely lucky, I think, to be here, right?
• 22:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: We are lucky.
• 22:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 22:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And being an American, I'm very proud of that.
• 22:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 22:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do my, I'd go back in time to do, I probably this time thinking about, I would do not just for, I would try to afford 20 years in military, just so I can talk shit, I'm all you motherfucker.
• 22:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I agree, you deserve it.
• 22:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Who, who, you know, who didn't do the military, and I was like bitches, I did 20 years, but I didn't do 20 years.
• 22:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just, like, I mean, I didn't go to the military, but the way I give back is a lot of commissars.
• 22:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm constantly volunteering every week.
• 22:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: But just because I said that doesn't mean I agree with the American military.
• 23:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I do not agree with the American military complex machine.
• 23:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't.
• 23:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: I agree with you.
• 23:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I'll wake, walk enough to say they're doing bad shit too.
• 23:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: What is going on with the American military?
• 23:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do we need to control every country, right?
• 23:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, why do you have bases of a wire?
• 23:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Are people over there?
• 23:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why are people dying?
• 23:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're not, they're not things to be tossed around.
• 23:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're human lives.
• 23:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Families are hurting in our country.
• 23:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And not just from like people being lost overseas, but the homelessness we see, their problems is in our society, right?
• 23:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's why I think it's important that our community stays unified and tries to understand each other.
• 23:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because this America that we have today is,
• 23:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is disheartening, right?
• 23:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: And honestly, quite frankly, I don't know how you feel.
• 23:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: You may feel the same way I do.
• 23:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I feel I am more American than the white Americans, right?
• 23:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: I feel every, I get up and I try to benefit this country, this community, right?
• 23:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Every, I try to make the right choices and only output good.
• 23:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: But why do other people not have the duty to community?
• 23:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the issue.
• 24:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: So
• 24:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: The one thing I can say that Tracy Law of it rise and the orange generation that I'm talking about having common is their duty and love to this community.
• 24:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is also where we should be unified, right?
• 24:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Tracy Law's doing work, Axiq, he was doing work, right?
• 24:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: We have a lot of sides doing work.
• 24:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we also have to remember the self-initiate built this community.
• 24:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Unlike, what is the place in Virginia with their little Vietnamese community, right?
• 24:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and get in.
• 24:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, they're losing their contract, right?
• 24:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the rumor is that they're losing the lease in a white man element.
• 24:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he wants to just get rid of all of the places, so they lose that community.
• 24:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Here we have the Frank Jowls, the Tony Lamps, and so on our community, right?
• 24:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Frank Jowl basically owns this stuff.
• 24:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And thanks to him, we're never going to lose it.
• 24:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Unless they sell it to somebody else, right?
• 24:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: But what I'm saying is we're so privileged, they have this strong, beautiful community here.
• 24:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right, and that's why I'm not trying to lose because we only have this community here because of the war because of our self-immut history And I think we owe it to honor that and I'm not saying do not teach other parts of our history But it's important what I'm saying is to document our history and that's what the problem we don't have So I believe the originization is they get together and document this stuff before they go because they're what they are talking to me with the museum No, I mean we need more than that
• 25:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Those are artifacts, but look at the Holocaust and the Armenian genocide.
• 25:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, granted, Armenian genocide is probably 100 years ago, Holocaust ended up 80 years ago, right?
• 25:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: They had more time to instill those history lessons, right?
• 25:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: We just don't have that yet.
• 25:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Not a strong version of it, right?
• 25:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: But we don't go and question the Holocaust.
• 25:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: We don't go and question the Armenian genocide, right?
• 25:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: We don't go and say, well, you're a live experience as a Holocaust survivor.
• 25:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to question it.
• 25:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now I've been talking to a lot of young people in the community and the young generation I do think that they do that and my question for them is What do we question our survivors the we don't question the service of the Armenian genocide or the Holocaust?
• 25:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right that is something that we should clearly think about
• 25:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's the same thing as saying.
• 25:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wait, you're moving way too fast.
• 25:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 25:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you're moving way too fast.
• 25:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: You are saying why doesn't the young people question the survivors of the Vietnam?
• 26:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, they do.
• 26:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: They do question our survivors.
• 26:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Our survivors.
• 26:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: How many of these?
• 26:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: How many of these?
• 26:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Some people in the young, younger generation will say, like, you know, my parents will be the story about South Vietnamese, but now I know the sort of Hoshiman, and I believe that story instead.
• 26:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 26:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 26:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's very strange to me.
• 26:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: These are our parents telling us a story.
• 26:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: What do we doubt them, right?
• 26:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: But also, this history needs to be out there so they can understand it have the option to understand it, right?
• 26:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think to not document it in a way where the students can learn, where it's like, instill like where there's documentaries and things like that, we're going to lose our history.
• 26:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 26:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Our history is the South Vietnamese government people's history, right?
• 26:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 26:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 26:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that there's clearly two sides, obviously, or many sides to history, right?
• 26:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And what I'm about to say is not controversial.
• 26:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Ho Chi Minh did what he did.
• 26:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: to eradicate and get Americans out, right?
• 26:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: He had to kill, or the guys that went after him had to do, like, the generals had to cleanse.
• 27:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's to get things in order.
• 27:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: So when we, the children of sub-phimis people and officers look at Houchimin, that's an evil figure.
• 27:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 27:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you can't argue with that.
• 27:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 27:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: From our perspective, when we see that, that is what we see.
• 27:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: what he did, and I think what Tracey Lies saying is in 1945, whatever that was at the autumn, which is still, was a... Yeah, but it's independent, right?
• 27:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's independent.
• 27:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's the liberation of the French and kicking like,
• 27:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: non- Vietnamese supply of the country.
• 27:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: You cannot deny that for that segment of the population.
• 27:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: But, but can we, because my question is... Can we, what?
• 27:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, we're saying that we should celebrate this independence or recognizing this independence that he created 80 years ago.
• 27:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying we should celebrate or recognize it.
• 27:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not, I'm just saying it's a footnote history that you could just, you could just point you and say, that's a footnote.
• 27:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're not the celebrated, but I'm not questioning it, though.
• 28:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why?
• 28:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because as a lawyer, we define things.
• 28:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 28:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: independent country.
• 28:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Isn't it?
• 28:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Your borders are free of control and the colonizing country let's go.
• 28:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think there's a debate to be had or critical thinking to be had around 45.
• 28:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 28:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because I don't believe in man getting on stage saying, hey, I create independence.
• 28:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: But the other countries never left and the other countries didn't create.
• 28:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: China was occupying the north, right?
• 28:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we have French in Vietnam and they kept coming back.
• 28:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So why are we calling that independence in 45?
• 28:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 28:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I do question a little bit that history.
• 28:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know a lot of the new writings.
• 28:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you don't you you maybe we don't say.
• 28:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, they were fully independent, but you can say one thing.
• 28:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: The fucking effort to be independent.
• 28:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: You got to get that guy crowded.
• 28:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it's right.
• 28:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Look for that.
• 28:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't disagree.
• 28:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't agree.
• 28:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was his objective.
• 28:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, my family on that side.
• 28:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: No.
• 28:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can I can say my family without on that side.
• 28:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: My family disagrees vehemently with Communists and and and and ways of looking of that kind of control.
• 28:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I'm on the side of like, yes, I am fully on the, I mean, that's why during the Marines, right?
• 29:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yep, yes, all of that.
• 29:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: At the same time, why can, why do we knock down Tracey Laugh for just saying what is designated as a footnote?
• 29:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, fear.
• 29:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's fear.
• 29:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not saying like, look, I'm not saying like Tracey Laugh shit.
• 29:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: when she did that is the right timing.
• 29:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's appropriate, you know, but but she's got a reason for what if and I don't think that we should.
• 29:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: We should just like destroy her.
• 29:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
• 29:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just because she believes in that thing.
• 29:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I agree with you.
• 29:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: We should be able to talk about.
• 29:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: We should
• 29:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it's a long wide open.
• 29:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I agree with you.
• 29:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I call it this morning.
• 29:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to respectfully tell her, hey, you know, I oppose you on this idea.
• 29:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: But you also know, I don't want to be respectful, right?
• 29:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is my friend.
• 29:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is somebody who I sought out to connect with many years like I tell most of the decade ago, right?
• 29:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I heard about this during the tracing.
• 29:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to say amazing, amazing.
• 29:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Amazing.
• 29:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Someone who's younger than me, she also has my name, swells it, right?
• 30:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and doing more than the community.
• 30:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: How proud should we be?
• 30:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 30:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: But of course, then we have a fork in the road with the whole.
• 30:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: This whole whole chiming thing.
• 30:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is hard for me.
• 30:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's hard for me to start with, too.
• 30:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 30:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 30:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Totally hard for me.
• 30:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's just bad timing, bad like whatever.
• 30:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't get behind sort of the timing of it.
• 30:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't get behind like not.
• 30:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: clarifying and being very nuanced about what you've got to get really deep into the weeds we're dealing with these things, but we should also be open and able to discuss it like we're doing right now.
• 30:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because, you know, as I'm into Christian high school, okay?
• 30:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: One day in Bible class, I had a question for our Bible teacher.
• 30:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is it bad to doubt your religion?
• 30:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And in the end, we came to the conclusion that it's actually good to doubt your belief because why if you can overcome that, you strength in your beliefs, right?
• 30:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, thank you.
• 30:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we should have these conversations that only will hopefully reaffirm for the other dimensions of our history and yes, you can learn more about Vietnam, but don't forget this is our history.
• 31:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what makes Vietnamese Americans different from any Americans in the entire like universe is the fact that we that we are trained at birth to question everything and by like red baiting and by like calling her a communist maybe she is I don't know but by like putting that label on her and dismissing like the other stuff that she does as well.
• 31:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
• 31:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 31:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: We can agree to that.
• 31:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is to me wrong.
• 31:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's to be fair.
• 31:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's just, again, toxicity.
• 31:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get that out of here.
• 31:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 31:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's give credit to people who deserve the credit.
• 31:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: But from this, also have these open conversations.
• 31:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 31:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's agree.
• 31:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to be stuck in this dichotomy forever?
• 31:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's been 50 years, I understand that.
• 31:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that does not erase the pain.
• 31:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because I had two losses.
• 31:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: I lost two sisters.
• 31:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: This pain will sit in my chest forever forever.
• 31:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just like it does for a mom.
• 31:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I was raised in a family where my mom was pro going back to Vietnam.
• 31:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: We went every summer.
• 31:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: My dad went one time to discuss it, came back in like a week rather than three weeks.
• 32:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: He refused.
• 32:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: He did not want to go back to him.
• 32:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was so angry at the government, but he's also in the military.
• 32:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: my mom was a good person, right?
• 32:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we have to completely use that home, too.
• 32:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: No.
• 32:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Not only balancing this idea of, I'm American and this American idea of, I want to relate to Vietnam, but I also conflicted my own parents and their views of Vietnam.
• 32:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the lack of expression, like, our parents did not tell us enough about the war.
• 32:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't tell us the political perspective, and it tells how it led up.
• 32:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: What is Coach and China, right?
• 32:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: How do you even get here?
• 32:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, those questions, I think we need to fill in for a young generation.
• 32:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we also have to have somebody in love for why they couldn't do it, you know, they couldn't answer.
• 32:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: The trauma traumatic.
• 32:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, it's like, it's like, we're in a new country, we're in a good place.
• 32:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why the fuck are we going to talk about that stuff, right?
• 32:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I get it.
• 32:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I understand it, but then don't ever stop me from expanding my understanding.
• 32:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I really respect the fact that we can set the example here,
• 32:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I still have not come to an answer with you about, what would we do with this old flag, right?
• 33:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: And, and this co-mingling and co-opting with the Trump administration with January 6, and all that, I mean, there's like a spectrum of all these feelings about what happened there, and then at the same time it's like,
• 33:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just want people to know, shouldn't binary.
• 33:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 33:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
• 33:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: If they can get us on anything for my podcast, yeah.
• 33:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I can change, I can change my mind too.
• 33:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to be like, oh, this shit is like in concrete right now.
• 33:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is dried up and I can't move the poles around.
• 33:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no.
• 33:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm I'm always willing to say at any time I can unfreeze my way of thinking and transport myself for a minute to think about what that's being said and that's being said and I want to stay open as possible but really be able to
• 33:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Really get down to the nitty-gritty.
• 33:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's real talks.
• 33:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's safe places, right, to talk about it.
• 33:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you know, I want to take more about the originization, right?
• 33:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: The reason why I have a mad respect for them, like especially Dr. Giu and then the people I know through her, right?
• 34:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a career agent, American, right?
• 34:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: So identify as gay.
• 34:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you're open this community in 1887?
• 34:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no.
• 34:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: We still to this day have kids who are kicked out of their homes for being gay, and that leads to homelessness at least to drug abuse and selling your body, right?
• 34:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: So crazy.
• 34:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 34:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, when I first started out, I was terrified because I was so close to out of me, her every other day, her house to do work.
• 34:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's how much I was volunteering for several years, right?
• 34:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I couldn't tell her I was gay.
• 34:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I was so afraid because I knew her husband was very conservative.
• 34:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I knew she was kind of probably conservative, even though she's a very literally new lady, right?
• 34:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I could never tell her, but I told her her assistant.
• 34:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then one day she finds out, and she buys my dog this sweater, and this sweater says, my mom is still single.
• 34:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I found out her husband changed from Republicans because they're still fucking angry at the Trump administration.
• 34:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: They what?
• 34:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: They disobeyed the Republican status.
• 34:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they went back to being independent.
• 34:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what status is, but it's not Republican because they cannot believe where the party is gone.
• 34:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because I do believe, who raises Republicans?
• 35:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was raised as a Republican.
• 35:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is like, the party of morals is how I saw them out to care.
• 35:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so where we are now today is very, again, disheartening.
• 35:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: As an American who loves this country.
• 35:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: But let me call it for what it is.
• 35:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let me call it in the right.
• 35:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I would love to be critical about fucking party.
• 35:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's still left and the right.
• 35:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, why are we as them talking about, oh, people and loving people social shit?
• 35:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then we are supporting Palace, like the Warren Palace.
• 35:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's a big chunk of our dumb party.
• 35:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: What the fuckery is that shit?
• 35:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Modern Democrats.
• 35:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Look, I probably in a modern, modern, modern, maybe a little bit more fiscally conservative, but social use, you know, I'm very loved, right?
• 35:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: But Goddamn, like, then there are people who don't die, too?
• 35:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I didn't pass on as worse because if anything, there is an ethnic cleansing at minimum, and it's genocide at most.
• 35:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's be fucking real.
• 35:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right, let's be fucking real.
• 35:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we talked about that with Brian, you know, the other way that came in to talk about this, I welcome all sides to this conversation.
• 36:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that I don't even want to call myself left
• 36:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I like to be identified as a progressive guy and not conservative.
• 36:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to be, I don't want to conserve anything.
• 36:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to progress.
• 36:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to hold back.
• 36:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: You should roll.
• 36:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 36:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Totally.
• 36:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what we had these challenging conversations.
• 36:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we need to do that out there.
• 36:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 36:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because what are we not trying to grow?
• 36:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Are we trying to be stuck in this mold of fighting ourselves, not in our history, fighting our own people?
• 36:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Come on.
• 36:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Where is the growth of our community?
• 36:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Are we going to be stuck with this?
• 36:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And what happens to the future of our community?
• 36:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: If we have no mutual understanding,
• 36:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, but then now what do we do with the yellow flag?
• 36:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're like, how do we, how do we, how do we go about this?
• 36:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, I think it goes back to documentation.
• 36:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: If our history was as sound and as strong as the way they pronounce the holocaust and the Armenian genocide, right, at least that stuff is so solidified and there to be access.
• 36:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think I, I will be okay with that, you know, because it's international, you recognize that I guess is not our heritage flag.
• 37:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: We have to respect the laws, the international laws, right, and the laws of that country.
• 37:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the star flag, yes, I don't own that flag, but I also know that is their flag.
• 37:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 37:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: So again, we're going back to these weird like gray areas of God.
• 37:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: We have to respect that country and I love going to Vietnam.
• 37:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love doing to me, so I'm looking there.
• 37:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love helping people.
• 37:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love helping them here.
• 37:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's all I do.
• 37:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I like Vietnam helping me.
• 37:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love going to Vietnam.
• 37:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love Vietnam, I'm freaking helping me.
• 37:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't know what the hell I do to help Vietnam.
• 37:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, to be honest with you, I don't know.
• 37:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I love it when I'm in Vietnam and I feel like Vietnam's helping me and helping my identity and helping my sort of like, my existence.
• 37:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: It feels good.
• 37:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I call it home.
• 37:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I call it going back home after so the kid.
• 37:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I was born and raised in the Orange County, California.
• 37:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's be real.
• 37:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I call it that going back home because again, notice discrimination.
• 37:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I go there and I'm accepted.
• 37:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I go there's all my food, my language, my people.
• 37:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: No one is judging me.
• 37:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: right, just because I look different.
• 38:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's like, what are we seeking?
• 38:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think what the younger generation of seeing is identity, right, we need to give that to some somehow, right?
• 38:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, I really want to press, I want to honor our history, right?
• 38:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think where this takes us is, God damn, we need to document it in a proper way.
• 38:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it is more than just museums, right?
• 38:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is education, but it's the history of the South.
• 38:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because I think in America, we have more access to the readings about whole achievement, right?
• 38:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: At least the Western idea that Europeans, right?
• 38:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: They write all about his history and what he's done.
• 38:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: But there isn't, who do we identify on the salt as our leaders?
• 38:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'm going to address this question.
• 38:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: There is Dr. Trinha out of Washington.
• 38:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's running for Congress.
• 38:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's coming out of the podcast very soon.
• 38:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've had Alex Tyon and he is really a proponent of the narrative of South Vietnam and Dr. Dingleville, what a organ.
• 38:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've had all these professors, I have Trinha coming on, but they are people who are answering your question.
• 39:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to ask them when they, I'm going to Trinha, because you know, I'm, I mean, her, her Instagram is very heavily leaning towards non-aurasia of the, of the, of the sun.
• 39:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 39:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Didn't mean.
• 39:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead.
• 39:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead.
• 39:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead.
• 39:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead.
• 39:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead.
• 39:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's interesting to me.
• 39:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Her father was in intelligence, in the police intelligence, in the Vietnam, and I told her, like, my dad and uncles were also Phoenix program CIA guys.
• 39:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: We share this lineage, but I think we're going to find out where we diverge.
• 39:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 39:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 39:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's important, we, you and her and the Wu and Alex Tye all share the, the narrative that we should preserve.
• 39:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, yeah, we should preserve it.
• 39:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: But that does not mean that we don't study the rest of the history, right?
• 39:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: So let's make a distinction.
• 39:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: We can preserve and we can also study the rest of the history.
• 39:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're writing it.
• 39:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, that's what we give all viewpoints.
• 40:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm finding so hard for our viewpoint, our self-adhesive viewpoint.
• 40:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I want to honor my history, my family, my mom, the deaths of my family, right?
• 40:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is because I have such an intimate relationship with death.
• 40:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: If anybody can answer this, I would love to hear it in the comments.
• 40:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is like, um, why?
• 40:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: can't Vietnam just recognize that the South was real, the Exodus was real, the deaths were real.
• 40:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm just wondering, I'm just curious like why the government can't address that.
• 40:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like the, like, like the, when do you remember the war brides of Korea?
• 40:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, yes, yes, they did not do like 100 years.
• 40:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they did not, the apologizing knowledge for ever.
• 40:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't get that.
• 40:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: This, this bog was my mind, like, you're, we got the generations removed from like whatever happened in during World War One.
• 40:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And what is the legal for a government to apologize?
• 40:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Easy.
• 40:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Look at our top administration.
• 40:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: We have a bunch of pedophiles in our government, right?
• 40:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: But those guys are in real time they can go to jail.
• 41:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I get that.
• 41:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I get that.
• 41:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: You got a high that shit because you're gonna go to jail You're gonna spend a lot of time doing bars and I feel like I fucking helps though, but I'm talking like three generations Remove when you have nothing really to do with your grandparents shit they commit these I'm not saying committed they things happen
• 41:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: two big iterations ago, just recognize it.
• 41:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not even asking for an apology.
• 41:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 41:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a little too much.
• 41:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just say it happened.
• 41:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 41:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
• 41:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can answer that.
• 41:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: But assuming, maybe it has to go with what they teach over there.
• 41:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: It may go against their own history of the third teaching, right?
• 41:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because...
• 41:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is so heavy.
• 41:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: We've been teaching history because it benefited our narrative.
• 41:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, just admit that.
• 41:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, some of the meeting is like, if you don't want to do that, right?
• 41:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: The pride, right?
• 41:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, we don't admit that we're wrong, right?
• 41:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: control right it's you don't say sorry oh my god let's not get on that shit we don't say sorry as as a fucking parent as a parent you don't fucking say sorry it's like oh my god when i taught my so i have a like this one of my friends Jennifer right she had this whole thing with her mom and i told her
• 42:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why do you want your mom apologizing and you never apologised to her?
• 42:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: How does she even know how to follow our example?
• 42:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're expecting something from our parents, but we can't even apologize when we're wrong to them.
• 42:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: So this is what I mean about both perspectives.
• 42:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, alongside her, how does that give my mom a attitude?
• 42:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's my bad, right?
• 42:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So...
• 42:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's a recognized everything.
• 42:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Instead of just trying to push and push our side, whatever our viewpoint is, right?
• 42:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: But as I am a proponent of document and history, I'm also a proponent of sending Tracy Law.
• 42:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm also a proponent of recognizing that it was wrong to do red bidding with her.
• 42:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was wrong at all, I'm a commentist.
• 42:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't appreciate that.
• 42:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have a fever to ask you.
• 42:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you have any close friends that come from the conservative circle that you trust that can come on and have a wonderful healthy debate, that will be great.
• 42:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: as a Vietnamese person who comes from a conservative that you respect and love, that you consider friend.
• 43:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Not the hard one.
• 43:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, today, in today's time, I think that's a hard one, right?
• 43:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, man, to be a part of the GOP, to still claim loyalty to the Republican Party.
• 43:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I really question that person.
• 43:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of people are like, I'm Republican, but I'm not a Trumper.
• 43:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: That is a difference, yes.
• 43:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: So if you know anybody like that, you're close to that, you still look up, still having issues with you.
• 43:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm thinking, I want to say I do, because I do.
• 43:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like in for that.
• 43:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're like, for example, I have gay friends.
• 43:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I got some really deep discussion, like almost like, she got almost got angry.
• 43:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, as a lesbian, how are you not more concerned about what Trump is doing in this country?
• 43:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's a Republican?
• 43:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, she's a damn, she's just a political.
• 43:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't understand that.
• 43:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: As a queer person who is constantly my boss.
• 43:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I tried to be a political for up until like a few months ago.
• 43:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't think we can though.
• 43:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was and I was building my numbers.
• 43:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I was saying like I see all these numbers like leave, like leave.
• 44:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm sorry.
• 44:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I pulled you into that.
• 44:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, yeah, yeah, no, it's okay.
• 44:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is what it is and it's weird.
• 44:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: You get more of the people on your side, but I'm not interested in having more people agree with me I want the whole Contrary to listen to other people's point of view and all the nuances are very important
• 44:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I agree with you, right?
• 44:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's, I think, where we can agree is, hey guys, let's just not fight.
• 44:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's actually hear each other out.
• 44:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And where can we grow?
• 44:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because what it's not living, you're not going every day.
• 44:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: That should be everyone.
• 44:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone should strive for growth every day.
• 44:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 44:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: You brought a big list of, you want to go for that list and see.
• 44:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I also want to make sure I hit everything.
• 44:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Anything?
• 44:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're a quick talker, fast talker, I'm a fast talker.
• 44:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like we covered a lot of ground, but maybe there are things in there that we are missing.
• 44:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: We have a few more minutes, yeah.
• 44:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: But do we cover everything?
• 44:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think so.
• 44:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think everything.
• 44:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do want to say, like, this idea of post memory, this idea of anti-communism that has passed on to me.
• 44:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't just accepted.
• 45:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I did my own research.
• 45:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have read at them on research, and I feel this way too, right?
• 45:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not just, again, I question a third year a lot.
• 45:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's a problem I have.
• 45:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think you're right, where it becomes a very offensive subject.
• 45:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a problem, it's again.
• 45:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: I fucking love it, right?
• 45:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I will always teach my kids that I mentor to do that, right?
• 45:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: But, and that's where, and this is why I appreciate the origination because when I had a talk with a professor of quit,
• 45:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: She said Tracy, it is time we listen to you guys.
• 45:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is time we hear what you have to say and where we went wrong.
• 45:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: God damn, do I appreciate that.
• 45:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And this is Dr. Whomeon.
• 45:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Dr. Whomeon.
• 45:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Dr. Whomeon.
• 45:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Dr. Whomeon has been on the podcast before as well.
• 45:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: We should have her own.
• 45:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's what I think this is what we're missing.
• 45:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I wish...
• 45:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: My peers in the younger generation could see this side of the origination of the IC.
• 45:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: This openness to us, this love for us is patience, right?
• 45:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: But we don't get to see that a lot.
• 45:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because I think the overwhelming voice is this hate in the origination of, oh, you know, anti-Communism, right?
• 45:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And pro-Trump, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 45:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 45:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: But that doesn't help.
• 46:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: when people, this is how I look at things now and I'm gonna be very general about it.
• 46:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna be very binary about this statement.
• 46:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: When people accuse young people of being anti-communist, this is how I look at people now.
• 46:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're just saying, what can I control you?
• 46:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: The one.
• 46:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 46:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, you're, you're a communist, and it's strictly because I can't control you.
• 46:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
• 46:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: They just think, I love it.
• 46:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think I love it.
• 46:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: You have to be obedient.
• 46:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: You have to be like, how do you love it?
• 46:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: How do you love it?
• 46:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right, don't ask any questions, or even for understanding that's wrong.
• 46:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: And ironically, that is textbook communism.
• 46:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you very freaking much.
• 46:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just, let's just be able to like, and for all the guys that have reached out, you know, there are several guys in the last week that have reached out to me.
• 46:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so do you ever have conservatives, literally out screenshot of that call me right now?
• 46:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't give a fuck who they are.
• 46:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't even research.
• 46:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: How many followers you got, when you ask me,
• 47:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: where are the conservatives on your podcast?
• 47:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you accept, I go call me now.
• 47:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, two guys have called me and then introduced me to different people.
• 47:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: The third guy is like, no, I'm not ready.
• 47:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, oh, really?
• 47:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Really?
• 47:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm the one saying, I'm open to dialogue.
• 47:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's go.
• 47:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just talking about things.
• 47:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it's control.
• 47:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's narrative control.
• 47:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not, I don't do with that.
• 47:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not accepting that.
• 47:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think a lot of people, you know, when you give an opposing view and they have to kind of consider it, it challenges their businessmen and it's like, like, does that mean I have a change?
• 47:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 47:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: You were telling me to change, fucking.
• 47:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is all right.
• 47:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do.
• 47:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: We have it in just American culture.
• 47:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to challenge me.
• 47:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, we can't.
• 47:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, we can't.
• 47:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: We can't.
• 47:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wait, you might agree with me.
• 47:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: We can't have that either because I think mentality.
• 47:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is to get out of that.
• 47:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: We do try.
• 47:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Again, third grade, thinking, traffic slowly thinking.
• 47:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's so many viewpoints.
• 47:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 47:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because the self-admise struggle is not one story.
• 47:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 47:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, there are similarities in our story, but there are different points of view in it.
• 47:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And one thing I do, I'm going to say this publicly.
• 48:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: One thing I do appreciate about what I saw with the shaking hands of Xi Jinping, you know, and to them.
• 48:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's the US has shaken hands with perceived enemies, right?
• 48:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like the irony is the irony.
• 48:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: We vote for Trump.
• 48:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's order to me.
• 48:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: See guys, we don't like China.
• 48:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: We don't like the Vietnamese government, but yet the London is in DC, New York.
• 48:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: All these guys are shaking hands, fucking going to like all these big events.
• 48:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like wake up people, wake up sheep.
• 48:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wake up and realize it like do they're shaking hands You know that's where I love about what Trump is then and what who goes and I ain't like there's you know like
• 48:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love it because it's ironic to me.
• 48:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not because I actually love what they're doing.
• 48:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love the fact that it's kind of fucking hilarious.
• 48:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's hilarious.
• 48:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's wild.
• 48:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Man, it's wild.
• 48:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can't write better comedy than this.
• 48:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 48:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I, I get it with you.
• 48:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Funny stuff.
• 49:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Tracy, thank you so much for doing this.
• 49:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, you're welcome back anytime.
• 49:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you can bring...
• 49:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Dr. Huay, or come back when there was like, you know, obviously we want to see some new shit, you know, and I want to hear new perspectives, perhaps from the community.
• 49:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you have a friend, especially conservatives, it's hard for you to find.
• 49:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm fine with Ally.
• 49:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm fine with Ally.
• 49:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone's friend.
• 49:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's all right.
• 49:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe because again, going back to the contingentist, let's stop that.
• 49:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: bullshit.
• 49:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think you are such a enthusiastic speaker for being open to conversation and thank you so much for coming and making the time.
• 49:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: And thank you for always be open and I reach out to you about people.
• 49:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I love that you are always open to your perspective.
• 49:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what we need.
• 49:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: We need that kind of leadership in our community, right?
• 49:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think as the order part of my life in the old generation, you're doing that for us.
• 49:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: So thank you.
• 49:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
• 49:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
• 49:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
• 49:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: You did it like I appreciate you.
• 49:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
• 49:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm going to finish on this real quick.
• 49:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: There is a new documentary out on Elizabeth Holmes.
• 50:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I need to watch it.
• 50:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: I need to watch it because Nathan Felder is like cuts to the bone his questions and everything like that and it's just like two people who are just like
• 50:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Being themselves and I wish that our community could have conversations and documentaries and all these things That we can just talk about things and I could be true.
• 50:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Could be not true.
• 50:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: We don't know But what do we air it out and let people see?
• 50:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: how people reacting, you know, like, I want to see where your heart is with a yellow flag and, you know, and you showed it to me and it doesn't look that bad.
• 50:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like, I don't crowd.
• 50:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 50:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just so proud and I don't relate ourselves and you started to struggle.
• 50:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I look relate to resilience and this is how we to look at it.
• 50:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't look at it as the American War Machine getting involved.
• 50:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Fuck that shit.
• 50:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 50:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking at our people with our story, not theirs.
• 50:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, they got involved and now they're going to redefine our story.
• 50:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Fuck that shit.
• 51:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: But this is our self-fingist story.
• 51:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what I'm focused on.
• 51:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Not anybody else's.
• 51:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you once again, Tracy.
• 51:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having me on.
• 51:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening to the Vietnamese with Kenneth Win.
• 51:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Special thanks to Brittany Tran, to Jane Win, Katherine Win, Tina Fam, Sydney Jamie, and Crystal Tran.
• 51:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Please find us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok at the Vietnamese podcast.