Latest / Authentic Living / Strategies to Get Through a COVID Holiday Season with Sue Lymburner

Transcript

Strategies to Get Through a COVID Holiday Season with Sue Lymburner · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
• 0:08
  things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:35
  Everyone.
• 0:36
  It's, Roxanne Derhodge of Authentic Living.
• 0:38
  Thanks again for tuning in this week.
• 0:40
  Today, I have a special friend, Suzanne Lynnburner, and I always screw up her name.
• 0:45
  It's kind of a thing with her and I.
• 0:47
  I don't do it purposely, but I think she does believe I do it.
• 0:50
  So she's a psychotherapist like myself and has been in the field of psychotherapy for,
• 0:54
  goodness over 25 years now, Sue, isn't
• 0:57
  it?
• 0:57
  Yes.
• 0:58
  So what we thought we would do is have a conversation about the time that we're in and
• 1:04
  talk a little bit about the upcoming season because I think that's very important that we
• 1:08
  talk about really what's happening for us.
• 1:10
  We've talked a lot about, 2020 COVID 19, but now I wanna specifically talk a little bit,
• 1:18
  with Sue about what rituals, like things like, traditions and special occasions like Christmas
• 1:26
  need mean to us in this time.
• 1:29
  So Sue's been on my show before, and, this is good.
• 1:32
  It's probably about 8 months ago.
• 1:34
  So, Sue, thanks a lot again for coming on.
• 1:36
  Thank you for inviting me.
• 1:37
  I'm very happy to be
• 1:39
  So let's let's talk a little bit about, in practice and kind of what you're seeing out
• 1:46
  there just generally, you know, in in 2020, what kind of things are you kind of what are
• 1:52
  some of the themes of things that you're seeing?
• 1:54
  Maybe that persistent, existed prior to the pandemic, but has kind of been, I I call it
• 1:59
  like the, you know, the exponential effect of things that you may be seeing with people in
• 2:04
  their personal
• 2:05
  Yes.
• 2:06
  So I, you know, I work with individuals and I do, a fair amount of trauma work and people
• 2:12
  dealing with stress, people dealing with loss, people dealing, going through separation,
• 2:18
  divorce, people deciding it's time to maybe, kind of look a little bit deeper into their
• 2:25
  lives and and their history And so some of the reasons that people are calling me are are kind
• 2:31
  of the same things that I would have been dealing with before the pandemic.
• 2:35
  And what I noticed at the beginning of the pandemic is that a lot of people were really
• 2:41
  hunkering down and prepared to do what they needed to do.
• 2:46
  Kind of thinking that it was gonna be a short term impact.
• 2:50
  I noticed clients saying that we're traditionally quite busy, very busy at keeping
• 2:56
  themselves busy and distracted from some of their own stuff.
• 3:01
  Were initially a little bit overwhelmed with not being able to distract themselves the way
• 3:06
  they used to.
• 3:07
  And so that was difficult for some people.
• 3:09
  And for others, They decided it was a time to dig a little bit deeper, because they have less
• 3:16
  ability to distract themselves because there's fewer things that we can do.
• 3:22
  What I'm seeing the last, probably couple months, is, yeah, an under current pretty
• 3:31
  consistently no matter what the reason is that people are reaching out there is this COVID
• 3:36
  impact.
• 3:37
  This, you know, this uncertainty, right, it's kind of, I think people are trying very hard to
• 3:45
  do their best in trying to manage their people are trying to maintain hope.
• 3:49
  People are trying to find ways to stay connected, to stay busy, to stay healthy, but I
• 3:57
  think people are getting exhausted.
• 4:00
  I think there is that undercurrent.
• 4:02
  It it feels like no matter what anybody is going through in percentage wise, it's like it
• 4:08
  it is impacting all of us to some degree.
• 4:12
  Like you said, whether consciously or unconsciously, It's a weight that we have to
• 4:17
  factor even everyday decisions with.
• 4:19
  Right?
• 4:20
  Is it safe to go meet somebody?
• 4:22
  You know, what are the crowds gonna be like?
• 4:24
  Are the rules today, what are the expectations, you know, on us right now in regards to staying
• 4:33
  safe, keeping others safe.
• 4:35
  So I I think I'm seeing it is it is having a more, It's getting heavier.
• 4:43
  This this responsibility and these limitations and just the uncertainty.
• 4:47
  So initially, what's I think when I was coaching or seeing people or even training,
• 4:52
  You're right.
• 4:52
  There was like, we can do this.
• 4:54
  I've the the I saw that.
• 4:55
  Right?
• 4:55
  Like, okay.
• 4:56
  Like, I have the ability I'm home with my children.
• 4:58
  I don't have to do my hour and a half commutes.
• 5:02
  You know, oh, I don't have to go to the office every day because some, you know, I can kinda
• 5:06
  get up and not have that ritual in the morning to get ready, get the kids lunches off, all
• 5:10
  that kind of stuff.
• 5:11
  Yeah.
• 5:12
  Busyness.
• 5:12
  Right?
• 5:13
  We're adapting
• 5:14
  and saying, oh, this is a lot more time, but I think you're right.
• 5:17
  As Well, we kinda looked into March.
• 5:19
  It was the beginning.
• 5:20
  Everybody was kinda using all their resourcefulness and then finding meaning and
• 5:25
  purpose.
• 5:26
  But now that we're kinda gone back the other or I'm not now that we're in the second wave,
• 5:31
  which really that's what we're in, there's that tiredness, I think, like you said, there's a
• 5:35
  looming.
• 5:35
  There's a heaviness that when when when will this end and how are we going to get through
• 5:43
  this next impact psychologically, emotionally, financially.
• 5:49
  Yes.
• 5:49
  All those things.
• 5:50
  And a lot of people are saying, I'm not sure how I'm gonna do because I've I've been able to
• 5:55
  spend some time taking care of myself, but now I'm running out of energy.
• 5:59
  Right.
• 5:59
  And I think we, as Canadians, you know, I I think going into the fall and winter, we do
• 6:05
  tend to hunker down a little bit and try to bear down.
• 6:08
  And I think for a lot of people, you know, the the the the less sunlight, the less daylight,
• 6:15
  it's not as easy in general to to pop in and out places.
• 6:20
  So I think on top, I think in the summer, there was an element of you know, there was there was
• 6:26
  daylight.
• 6:26
  There was more options, I think, to gather outside, more activities outside.
• 6:31
  I think people felt safer.
• 6:33
  But I think on top of, you know, just the the restrictions, there is this time of year that I
• 6:38
  think is is hard, you know, seasonal, effective disorder.
• 6:42
  Is is pretty common in, you know, our our communities around here, right, in Canada.
• 6:51
  Helping us out.
• 6:54
  It's so beautiful.
• 6:58
  I would say pop, but, pretty big.
• 7:00
  That's the And and you're a retriever that has been so just, you know, interestingly, for me,
• 7:06
  personally, one way for me coping is that, you know, I used to kind of begrudgingly take her
• 7:12
  for walks fitting it in, and now I make a point of really finding new spots you know, and
• 7:18
  spending a little bit more time taking her on hikes.
• 7:20
  That's been a very good for my mental health and exercise.
• 7:24
  Yeah.
• 7:25
  So let's let's talk about so what the I I would say that the pervasive you and I as
• 7:30
  psychotherapist, we understand loss because you know, whatever.
• 7:34
  Oftentimes when people are coming to us, like you said, there's a separation.
• 7:38
  Potentially, there's a trauma.
• 7:40
  There is some reconfiguring of a fam a family to to to roll roles, responsibilities, all
• 7:46
  those things.
• 7:47
  So thematically, we're often thinking about that.
• 7:49
  We're thinking themes When you think of, I would say that COVID is the biggest theme of
• 7:56
  loss you know, Internationally and globally that any of us could not have perceived this.
• 8:03
  And now we're going into, traditions.
• 8:06
  Like, it's it's American Thanksgiving just happened, and that oftentimes kicks off the
• 8:10
  Christmas season.
• 8:12
  Let's talk
• 8:13
  a little bit about what that's like.
• 8:14
  What we know about, traditions.
• 8:17
  And oftentimes, Christmas is the kind of thing that you know, people think about, you know,
• 8:24
  trees and and and, you know, wrapping presents and cookies and, you know, putting up the
• 8:29
  lights, all those fun things, which I think most people that obviously, celebrate Christmas
• 8:37
  and joy, but there's a counter say that to that that I know that I've seen over the years and
• 8:42
  I'm sure you've seen too.
• 8:43
  So can talk let's talk a little bit about what that's like for some of the considerations of
• 8:48
  things of people not being super happy because they have different differing circumstances at
• 8:55
  Christmas.
• 8:57
  Right.
• 8:57
  So I think, you know, while Christmas, I think, for a lot of us, you know, or the the holidays,
• 9:02
  you know, there's traditions, and I think traditions are grounding.
• 9:06
  Right?
• 9:06
  I think of them as, like, being, you know, a framework around our lives.
• 9:10
  Right?
• 9:10
  So sometimes it's just their markers in time, their things to to look forward to.
• 9:16
  But I think we can also identify that, you know, the holidays can be very stressful for
• 9:20
  families traditionally too.
• 9:22
  The expectations are high.
• 9:25
  You know, all around the expectations of what it's gonna be like, the expectations upon
• 9:29
  ourselves to be with people that maybe, you know, we wouldn't normally get together with.
• 9:32
  So I I you know, while I think there is it is different this year, we will be celebrating
• 9:37
  different.
• 9:38
  I think it's also really important to highlight different doesn't, by definition, mean it's
• 9:44
  better or worse.
• 9:46
  And so, you know, maybe in regards to Things won't be the same.
• 9:51
  And for for lots of people, it will be a loss.
• 9:54
  Right?
• 9:54
  There there is a grieving because people that they care about they won't be able to gather
• 9:59
  the same way.
• 10:01
  All the little celebrations that maybe, yeah, just mark the holidays you know, even worship
• 10:06
  is different.
• 10:07
  Right?
• 10:09
  So I I think, yeah, it's about how do we find new ways, that allow us to still have some
• 10:21
  markers, some structures, some some type of tradition that may be, you know, sometimes I
• 10:27
  think of families that have gone through divorce with little kids.
• 10:31
  And I've over the years, I've seen how especially if it's very new, you know, new in
• 10:36
  in the separation, parents can get very distraught and very adamant about the need to
• 10:43
  have their kids on the day of, right, 25th.
• 10:47
  And, you know, if we really and it's a most and it there's a a real sense of loss there.
• 10:52
  Right?
• 10:52
  It's a win lose and, you know, I I think the the parents that are most successful in getting
• 10:59
  through these difficult times are when you can be a little bit flexible, right, and and really
• 11:05
  take the time to acknowledge your own grief, that may be feeding in to these loss of old
• 11:13
  traditions and really trying to be creative and how How can we still maintain connection?
• 11:19
  How can we still celebrate people that we love?
• 11:21
  How can we still take care of ourselves?
• 11:24
  And you know, I I think that's kind of what we've had to do all along, and I'm not saying
• 11:29
  it's easy, right, to think that there's not this wave.
• 11:32
  I think that we've all experienced but I think in kind of acknowledging and accepting what we
• 11:42
  can't do allows us to then move forward and begin to be creative about, well, what can we
• 11:50
  do?
• 11:51
  I think when there's that resistance to accepting it, because I don't want it to be
• 11:54
  like this, sometimes that being a little bit in limbo or a little bit locked in this state of I
• 12:01
  don't have control, and I don't like it, and I don't want it.
• 12:05
  Although it's a very easy place to get into.
• 12:08
  It doesn't serve us well in the long run.
• 12:11
  So that concept of grief, right?
• 12:13
  Like, you know, really to some degree and we know there's different stages and stuff like
• 12:20
  that.
• 12:21
  Now, you know, I think we've been like you said, I think you know, Canadians or just
• 12:26
  people internationally have been really trying, like, I think of my mom's birthday, and we had
• 12:30
  to do a Zoom call, like, you know, with the seventy nine year old mother.
• 12:34
  Who's not who's not hearing so well.
• 12:36
  It's like, oh my goodness.
• 12:37
  I can see, you know, just even though she she knows the computer, but she doesn't know
• 12:41
  computer.
• 12:41
  Right?
• 12:41
  So and and and what that was like, and I was experiencing it, and she loved it.
• 12:46
  She wouldn't be talking with somebody else.
• 12:48
  It would be it was funny, not funny.
• 12:49
  Right?
• 12:50
  And, you know, having the grandchildren all over, but it was and then she really to her,
• 12:55
  she was struck that, okay, I can't see them, but I can really talk to them.
• 12:58
  So it was a shift that my family had to go through, which might, you know, with my big
• 13:02
  Trinidad in family, all getting together, that was something that we couldn't do anymore.
• 13:07
  Right.
• 13:08
  And, you know, and then again, we're gonna have to do it again at Christmas because now my mom
• 13:13
  lives in Toronto.
• 13:14
  Like, I know your mom does as well.
• 13:16
  They're in the gray zone.
• 13:17
  We're we're we're not, but we, you never know, we might kind of get there at which points
• 13:22
  we're gonna be kinda stuck.
• 13:24
  So that concept of grief, I think, to your point about people going through situations
• 13:30
  like divorces, you know, having 2 traditions, parents like that that really acknowledged what
• 13:37
  they're feeling, and I think that's the important thing that I hear you say is what am
• 13:42
  I really feeling about not having the things that I'm accustomed to?
• 13:47
  Right.
• 13:49
  Right.
• 13:49
  And what when so what kind of things could people do?
• 13:55
  To deal with some of those those feelings of grief
• 13:58
  at this point.
• 13:59
  I think this was is, you know, just calling it grief.
• 14:03
  Right?
• 14:03
  Just kind of acknowledging that this this grief, right, it's a loss of what was.
• 14:08
  It's a loss of, you know, our sense of you know, I think for people that are struggling
• 14:12
  financially and with their jobs and it's a loss of, you know, that sense of purpose, it's a
• 14:18
  loss of the taught me.
• 14:19
  It's a it's a loss of having a goal and and working towards it.
• 14:23
  You know, that that control's been taken away for well, from all of us in in some level.
• 14:28
  So I think even just that very respectful word of acknowledging that, you know, there it is
• 14:33
  grief and loss, and and it's okay to feel sad.
• 14:36
  And it's okay that you're not bouncing back and perhaps for the holidays, it can just feel
• 14:41
  like, you know, I I remember hearing people saying, oh, I've got all this time during COVID
• 14:46
  now.
• 14:46
  I'm not working.
• 14:47
  And, you know, I'm I'm hearing people say that they're decorating their homes or, you know,
• 14:52
  and I I'm having a hard time.
• 14:53
  What's wrong with me that I don't want to?
• 14:56
  And I it it's just really trusting where you're at and and taking care of yourself in regards
• 15:02
  to, not shaming yourself that I should be feeling a certain way.
• 15:08
  And what I will say that I think is important for us, period, no matter what at any time
• 15:13
  during any kind of crisis is that connection.
• 15:15
  How am I staying connected?
• 15:18
  Right?
• 15:18
  The fact that you're saying, you know what I mean?
• 15:20
  I I think I I went through a bit of that as well is like I don't feel, you know, I also say
• 15:26
  I don't feel the spirit.
• 15:27
  Like, my thing is, you know, I would delay it so I can have like a compacted time to enjoy
• 15:33
  Christmas, you know, with our schedules oftentimes.
• 15:36
  Yeah.
• 15:36
  But this year, there there is a bit more time, and I wasn't feeling you know, as motivated
• 15:42
  and, I have a friend that's in my bubble and we just she came over and we just decorated but it
• 15:48
  was just again because me living on my own It was having somebody else to go through that
• 15:53
  whole tradition with.
• 15:55
  Yeah.
• 15:55
  Even though it's gonna it was different.
• 15:57
  It was absolutely different.
• 15:59
  But then I kind of felt a little bit better about it.
• 16:01
  But but so I like the fact that you're saying acknowledging that I'm not feeling it as much
• 16:08
  this year to someone else.
• 16:09
  Opens that window for them to say, you know what?
• 16:12
  I've been also feeling the same or you know, I'd you know, when we're talking about things
• 16:18
  like big box stores now, I think, just recently there was an announcement with Walmart, for
• 16:23
  instance, that they're gonna separate out the grocery store from the shopping.
• 16:26
  That was one of the places that people could still go and shop, and now people are telling,
• 16:30
  you know, you're hearing people talk about it, like, now it means like I can't go out to shop
• 16:35
  anywhere.
• 16:37
  So now it takes away that element of actually going out and browsing, which most of us aren't
• 16:42
  doing that much anyway.
• 16:45
  And now it's like it's all online.
• 16:48
  You know, and, you know, the the enjoyment or things like that isn't there as much.
• 16:52
  I'm sitting behind my computer.
• 16:56
  For RJ that might might fit for him when it does not that same elements of enjoyment of
• 17:01
  kind of, you know, looking at things and things like that.
• 17:04
  Well, and even the exchange, you know, that I'm just working a little bit in retail this time
• 17:08
  of year for the Christmas, season just to you know, for myself, for my own mental health
• 17:14
  because I work from home and I am alone.
• 17:17
  So just to break that up, and it's interesting because what I what I notice you know, is that,
• 17:25
  people we are social beings.
• 17:27
  So just even saying hello, how are you?
• 17:30
  You know, it you know, that that small chitchat is really enough.
• 17:34
  I think sometimes if you're really struggling with feeling alone and isolated, the more we're
• 17:39
  alone and isolated, the more that can feed the belief that I'm alone and and isolated.
• 17:44
  So there is something quite, powerful about just having that exchange with another human
• 17:51
  being.
• 17:51
  Doesn't have to be heavy.
• 17:53
  Doesn't necessarily have to be focused on how I'm feeling, but that light chit chat I think
• 17:57
  of even, you know, people that people have shared with me even walking their dog, you
• 18:01
  know, it's nice to see somebody else walking by that you say hello to.
• 18:05
  Right?
• 18:06
  We can keep our distance, but I I think we have to be really careful, especially as it gets
• 18:10
  colder, right, especially as it starker.
• 18:13
  I think our tendency is to hibernate a little bit more.
• 18:18
  I I think all things considered of what's going on think we have to be really careful and
• 18:24
  really self monitoring and self reflecting.
• 18:27
  Now I'm feeling pretty blah, but I'm going on day 3 or 4.
• 18:32
  You know, I've been my pajamas not really getting dressed.
• 18:35
  Maybe it would be a good idea to see if somebody wants to do a socially distant walk
• 18:41
  with me or, you know, even reaching out and calling somebody or FaceTiming, Yeah.
• 18:48
  I think we we have to be careful of falling into that all or nothing.
• 18:53
  I can't have it the way I want it to be and the way I'm used to, it can be easy to give up a
• 19:00
  little bit of hope.
• 19:03
  Absolutely.
• 19:03
  And I you know what I like about what we just said Sue is even story, right?
• 19:09
  You know, we know how how powerful the element of healing what storytelling is and even, you
• 19:16
  know, having people share maybe stories with each other.
• 19:19
  I was just I just thought about this when you said that about some, you know, things that
• 19:23
  your memories even over of Christmas.
• 19:25
  Like, let's say you can't, you know, like, I can't see my mom, till, or, you know, because,
• 19:30
  you know, she's in peel.
• 19:32
  So probably not till Christmas.
• 19:34
  And because, you know, she's a bubble with my sister and myself, we'll be able to go there
• 19:38
  for Christmas.
• 19:39
  Because they've made that exception, but I can't see her till then, but there's so many
• 19:42
  little things that we do before.
• 19:44
  What I was thinking is when you said that is maybe people starting to talk about some of the
• 19:49
  things that they remembered if they enjoyed leading up might be a helpful kind of thing
• 19:54
  because so, you know, I'm from sure that and, you know, what would happen is, every Christmas
• 20:00
  Eve, my mom would, you know, and mind you was warm.
• 20:04
  Right?
• 20:04
  Don't think of Canadian summers.
• 20:06
  You know, it's like cleaning summers in Trinidad all the time and she would get us all
• 20:10
  dressed up.
• 20:11
  There was six of us and sent us off with my dad to have breakfast, Christmas Eve morning with
• 20:18
  my grandparents for true are just off the street.
• 20:20
  And that was such a big thing, but I remember all these little memories Right?
• 20:25
  Like and so my mom could kind of prepare for Christmas, and then we would go house to house.
• 20:29
  Right?
• 20:30
  It's really because people weren't very far away.
• 20:32
  So I think sharing those kind of things about some of the memories might be actually helpful
• 20:37
  for people, like, if they can't be physically physically together or even Christmas eve,
• 20:42
  right, like Christmas Eve memories or stories or, things like that.
• 20:46
  It's almost like we're going back to some of the traditions prior to us being connected, you
• 20:52
  know, about stories.
• 20:53
  You know, I think that would be I I just think of my self with my memories, you know, growing
• 20:58
  up elsewhere in different traditions.
• 21:00
  I love those old stories.
• 21:01
  So maybe that's something people can start considering you know, not waiting for just the
• 21:06
  time, but having a buildup of time sharing for just the one day.
• 21:12
  Right?
• 21:12
  Right.
• 21:13
  There's a lot of pressure on that one day.
• 21:15
  Yeah.
• 21:16
  Absolutely.
• 21:17
  And, you know, maybe, you know, for, you know, hopefully, people will have some time off, and
• 21:22
  maybe it's it's it's really taking care of, you know, ourselves.
• 21:26
  Like, what would I really like to do if I really want to watch Christmas movies all day
• 21:30
  long or old movies, you know, And I remember when, you know, being very busy and stressed
• 21:35
  and stressed and, yeah, how how much I enjoy that feeling not guilty or you're simplifying
• 21:43
  it.
• 21:44
  Right?
• 21:44
  I think it does have to be simpler this year.
• 21:48
  Within your means, like, you know, looking at the reality of what I can and can't do.
• 21:53
  Somebody just shared with me, it was a young person who is writing letters And that just
• 21:57
  made me think, you know, this time, if we can't be with everyone, you know, maybe the person
• 22:01
  that lives in Toronto, that's not that far.
• 22:04
  But, you know, what about writing a Christmas card and maybe taking the time, you know, to
• 22:10
  write a letter you know, to really identify how I feel about you, you know, what that person
• 22:16
  means to you.
• 22:19
  Yeah.
• 22:20
  It just struck me as, you know, an old fashioned, underused, I think, means of
• 22:26
  connection.
• 22:27
  And and maybe sharing, right, what what this holiday means to you, what the people in your
• 22:32
  life mean to you, if we can't be in person, are there other ways to feel connected and stay
• 22:37
  connected?
• 22:38
  So the concept of that it's grief and in fact that if we kind of accept that we're feeling
• 22:46
  certain feelings, lots of different feelings, and everybody's gonna be different.
• 22:50
  Right?
• 22:50
  Everybody's different people's have have had different responses.
• 22:53
  I know you know in my life, like, there's been people that have been like, I'm not seeing
• 22:58
  anybody to to to kind of the pendulum swinging a too far, which is like, woah, that's kind of
• 23:04
  unsafe.
• 23:04
  So, you know, you have to kind of pivot based on who you're connected with to kind of you
• 23:09
  know, be okay with your space in reference to that particular space.
• 23:13
  But I wonder, like, you know, maybe kind of create in a narrative based on what you're
• 23:19
  experiencing to help the other person in your lives understand what you're experiencing and
• 23:23
  to elicit that kind of conversation with them.
• 23:27
  Yeah.
• 23:27
  I think talking about your own COVID guidelines is a very sensitive topic.
• 23:33
  Right?
• 23:33
  What what I what my risk tolerance is you know, is is my experience is very typically, there's
• 23:40
  nuances with everybody else's.
• 23:42
  So I think it's, you know, how do we respectfully accept that we're all doing our
• 23:48
  best?
• 23:49
  And how do we, yeah, really try to have some, you know, empathy for We're all in different
• 23:55
  situations.
• 23:55
  We all have different histories.
• 23:58
  We are all trying to cope with a very you know, exceptionally, stressful time in our lives.
• 24:11
  Right?
• 24:12
  And and
• 24:12
  Very difficult.
• 24:13
  Right?
• 24:13
  Like, and I think you and I, with our kind of profession, we, you know, people come to us and
• 24:19
  and sometimes what people will come just because they like you said, they want, you
• 24:23
  know, to have a a an objective third party to talk through something.
• 24:26
  But what I found now is that the people that I'm seeing, people are distressed.
• 24:33
  They may have been stressed before and now they're the heaviness that they're carrying
• 24:37
  around, and they're trying to explain it and say, you know, I don't know what I'm
• 24:41
  experiencing.
• 24:41
  And I and, you know, and then normalize it for them that, you know, I'm a therapist like you
• 24:47
  are, but I'm also a person and there's been a heaviness that I felt even though I I do all
• 24:52
  the things to take care of myself that I kind of sit there some and say, what is this about?
• 24:57
  And then I say, well, of course, Like, you know, I'm worried if I go to the grocery store.
• 25:01
  I'm worried about my mom who's seventy 9.
• 25:03
  I'm worried my dad about 8 who's 84 I'm worried about, you know, when I see clients, you know,
• 25:08
  if I do see them in person, am I being safer?
• 25:11
  Are they being there's lots of things that are me kind of going through my head, you know, and
• 25:15
  then I when I think when I've shared that, they go, wow.
• 25:19
  I guess you're thinking about those things as well.
• 25:21
  And I said, absolutely.
• 25:22
  Because We all wanna be safe at this time.
• 25:26
  And, you know, even though consciously, we might think, oh, I've done everything to take
• 25:29
  care of myself.
• 25:30
  When we kind of, you know, what what is that story playing through your head that you might
• 25:34
  still be worrying that you're not even aware that you're worrying about things?
• 25:38
  Correct.
• 25:38
  Correct.
• 25:39
  But, you know, every time we leave the house, we're doing a different kind of there's an
• 25:43
  extra layer that we have to go through, right, with I I think it does take its toll on people.
• 25:50
  You know, you can't just easily run to the corner store without making sure you, you know,
• 25:56
  you have your mask without checking to see how many people are in the store without just this,
• 26:01
  you know, and that's just one little thing in in amongst many other things that we're doing
• 26:04
  in a day.
• 26:06
  It does take its toll on us.
• 26:08
  So let's talk a little bit about people with children or little children at home.
• 26:12
  I've just, you know, I think about that and obviously our kids are older and, you know,
• 26:17
  Santa then, you know, they're not talking about that anymore, but there's people that have
• 26:22
  little ones that, first of all, having to explain to them.
• 26:26
  And and I'm, you know, I'm always amazed how well little kids do when you tell them about
• 26:30
  the mask and, you know, and then they adapt Right?
• 26:33
  So I'm just thinking about traditions for them as we go into things like, you know, Santa
• 26:38
  coming and, you know, those types of things.
• 26:41
  What kind of suggestions would you have for that maybe have littler ones, to help them get
• 26:46
  through the traditions without kind of taking away that happiness, space within littler ones.
• 26:53
  I think, again, it reminds me
• 26:54
  of when we talked about with, you know, parents that are newly divorced, you know, the little
• 26:59
  kids aren't gonna really care what the actual date is.
• 27:05
  Right?
• 27:05
  So if they get to, you know, show up at mom or dads and there's presents for them and there's
• 27:10
  celebration.
• 27:11
  It really doesn't matter to them if it's the 27th or the So I would say, again, parents, you
• 27:17
  know, it's acknowledging your own grief.
• 27:20
  And and I do wanna make room amongst all of this for the potential that maybe it is it
• 27:25
  could be a little bit easier this year because there's not the expectations to drive to that
• 27:31
  in laws and that in laws and that person's party and that work party.
• 27:36
  You know, there's a there's a free pass now.
• 27:38
  Right?
• 27:38
  You don't have to make an excuse.
• 27:39
  You don't have to force yourself to go.
• 27:41
  So I have had that feedback.
• 27:43
  People saying that that they're trying to look at it with, you know, maybe it's just it is a
• 27:48
  it's a a holiday season where the expectations are print.
• 27:52
  So I think making room for that if you can to see the other, you know, there may be some
• 27:59
  things that aren't happening, but maybe there's room for some things that might make room for,
• 28:07
  a little bit of ease Right?
• 28:08
  A little bit of breathing easier, a little bit of of just being.
• 28:12
  So I would say for parents to check-in with their own feelings, 1st and foremost, how am I
• 28:17
  coping?
• 28:18
  Because how they're coping, right, will model how the kids are coping.
• 28:22
  The kids are gonna they're gonna follow their parents directions.
• 28:27
  They're they're gonna be looking to their parents for cues.
• 28:30
  So if parents are rolling with the punches, because parents are finding a way to make, you
• 28:37
  know, sense of things to make, You know, if the traditions are a little bit different this year
• 28:45
  and parents are able to find a way to embrace that, then kids are going to accept it.
• 28:52
  Like you said, you know, kids are quite adaptable.
• 28:54
  They're looking to the adults in their life, right, to follow their lead.
• 28:58
  So I think really try not not projecting too much of our own heaviness, our own big picture
• 29:05
  worries onto our kids.
• 29:09
  I guess so to also think if I am having heaviness, what is it that I could do for
• 29:14
  myself.
• 29:15
  Right?
• 29:16
  Because you may have a you may be trying your best, and let's say the child is just you know,
• 29:21
  having a bit of a meltdown, you know, your capacity to to hold that space for that child
• 29:25
  really depends on how you're coping.
• 29:27
  Right?
• 29:28
  So it's already kind of think of, you know, what can I do and to give yourself that gap
• 29:33
  potentially if you think what I've spent I I really can't do anymore?
• 29:38
  And then maybe the child's, you know, overreacting to to really kind of think what
• 29:42
  can I do to kind of create that gap so that I don't kind of get into something with a child?
• 29:47
  That's, you know, maybe not understanding as much and just be gentle and kind to yourself.
• 29:52
  That's what I've been saying to a lot of people time but there's no there's no road map and
• 29:57
  every time we get to, you know, we think we might be turning right.
• 30:01
  There's a detour and we don't know which detour we should take because it's been changed.
• 30:06
  Right?
• 30:06
  And all of us like certainty as human beings, and and I think that's the pervasive element
• 30:12
  that I think, as a psychotherapist or even as a coach is that none of us like to be uncertain.
• 30:19
  And we've had to come to the point where we're recognizing that not too many there aren't too
• 30:25
  many constants here.
• 30:27
  And as human beings, we to put things in buckets, right?
• 30:29
  We kinda try to find a category, you know, of things.
• 30:33
  Okay.
• 30:33
  This belongs here.
• 30:34
  This belongs here, but we've that's been disrupted at a profound level.
• 30:39
  And and I think for the most part, you I would say the most people are pretty resilient.
• 30:45
  But if people had pre existing issues even before coming into COVID, it's just kinda it's
• 30:51
  like putting a bumps in burner underneath it.
• 30:53
  It's just got you know, bigger and bigger.
• 30:55
  And I know I've seen, like I said, more depression, more anxiety, more addictions,
• 30:59
  those types of things are that heaviness that people aren't able to get rid of.
• 31:03
  So they might be using things outside of themselves to cope a little bit
• 31:07
  more.
• 31:09
  I always think that parenting in general, right, how do you put that oxygen mask on
• 31:13
  yourself before you offer it to your to your child.
• 31:16
  So and again, remembering, you know, parenting during the holidays can be stressful any year.
• 31:23
  Right?
• 31:23
  So, you know, I I think it's Again, just being aware that it can be a stressful time of
• 31:28
  business and expectations and being realistic about what you can do at any given time, being
• 31:33
  fair with yourself, being yeah, being fair with yourself, and that piece of what is within my
• 31:40
  control.
• 31:42
  Right?
• 31:42
  So if, definitively, you know, maybe we know that we can't do the things that we would have
• 31:48
  liked to have done, well, what can I do?
• 31:50
  I I I love the idea of plan a isn't working, not stopping there.
• 31:55
  Well, what is plan b?
• 31:56
  If that doesn't, you know, what what can I do?
• 31:59
  That's within my control and within our today and maybe not, you know, trying to especially
• 32:06
  during the holidays, maybe not trying to guess when things are gonna change or worry about
• 32:13
  when, you know, knowing that they will, we just don't have that definitive answer that, as you
• 32:20
  said, we like to have.
• 32:22
  So I'm just thinking, one one last question before we wrap up, but I'm just thinking, as we
• 32:29
  think of the time that we're gonna be off over the Christmas and we think of the people in our
• 32:35
  lives that we may not be able to see potentially.
• 32:39
  One thing that I'm thinking, Sue, is that maybe kind of thinking through what are your
• 32:45
  traditions how might they be altered and maybe kind of starting to think or anticipate what
• 32:52
  those needs are of those relationships and some potential things that can do to connect ahead
• 32:57
  of time.
• 32:59
  Does that make sense?
• 33:00
  Because I'm just thinking.
• 33:01
  Right?
• 33:01
  You know, like, you know, every Christmas Eve you would do this or every Christmas you do
• 33:06
  blah or you go to church or, you know, a boxing day you would have leftovers or you'd have
• 33:11
  Chinese food or, you know, we all have these things to really kind of starting to anticipate
• 33:15
  now through proper lens of loss or grief.
• 33:19
  What is it that I'm gonna be but potentially the other person on the other end, how are they
• 33:25
  like me?
• 33:25
  Not like me and maybe how they, might need something a bit different from you as well.
• 33:30
  Right.
• 33:31
  Right.
• 33:31
  And for you to also think, like, maybe what might you need differently from them too.
• 33:36
  Right.
• 33:36
  And are you being realistic of what you can offer, right, we we can't change people's
• 33:42
  minds, right, if if, you know, I think we can be as compassionate and and show as much
• 33:47
  empathy as possible.
• 33:49
  We're not gonna make people feel different.
• 33:52
  Right?
• 33:52
  If people are struggling at, you know, loved ones, if there's other people that are
• 33:55
  struggling, we have to be realistic about what we can offer and and the extent, you know, our
• 34:01
  our boundaries.
• 34:01
  Right?
• 34:02
  I I can't be I can't be held responsible that this is different, and the other person may not
• 34:07
  like it.
• 34:08
  And and, again, just to be reminded, like you said, you know, those traditions we may not be
• 34:14
  able to do.
• 34:14
  And so maybe if, you know, you're not going out for breakfast, you know, maybe there's a
• 34:19
  special meal that you love to have that you make this year.
• 34:23
  That's different.
• 34:24
  Right?
• 34:24
  I I think it really there is an opportunity to be creative.
• 34:28
  There is an opportunity.
• 34:29
  You know, maybe it's it's with a family member.
• 34:33
  You know, do you wanna make the same thing?
• 34:35
  You know, what are you making?
• 34:36
  Maybe I'll try making it.
• 34:38
  You know, what's the recipe?
• 34:40
  Grandma, auntie, mom, brother, you know, what's what's do you remember that recipe?
• 34:46
  You know, maybe I'm gonna try making that.
• 34:48
  I think And and they're still the telephone.
• 34:52
  Right?
• 34:53
  Absolutely.
• 34:54
  Absolutely.
• 34:54
  I think so.
• 34:55
  And, you know, I know what some of my meetings, for instance, I have a board that I sit on.
• 35:00
  What they did is they they thought of little things that we can open together when we have a
• 35:05
  meeting or even, you know, a little if it's something small, even a symbol, like, you know,
• 35:10
  that you can maybe get on the line with someone and open it same time, like you said, or you
• 35:15
  create a meal together that you know, you know, that you would create, say, Christmas Eve and
• 35:20
  you can make and the other person can also make it.
• 35:23
  And you can try it together and also, you know, talk about, you know, what that experience is
• 35:27
  like, what it tastes like, oh, I'm not so good at, and that would be me with my cooking
• 35:31
  abilities with my sisters.
• 35:33
  Kind of thing because, obviously, you know, it's something that may maybe I would do with
• 35:37
  them, but now I'm not being able to do do with it.
• 35:40
  So just being, I think, a bit creative and thinking to people that are alone, right?
• 35:46
  Like what could you do to to reach out in some way?
• 35:49
  It's different.
• 35:50
  If people have families and those types of things, but people that are alone, I often say
• 35:54
  at this time, or people that have had shifts, like you said, separations, illnesses that
• 36:00
  maybe people that are immune compromised that just can't get together with, family members,
• 36:05
  whether they're older or not.
• 36:07
  Kids go getting together with grandparents, all that stuff, just to really think about what
• 36:11
  could you do to make sure that you maintained that connection like you said.
• 36:15
  Yeah.
• 36:15
  And I think if, you know, if you've got a bigger family, I I think it might it's helpful
• 36:20
  if you have some dialogue about checking in.
• 36:23
  Right?
• 36:24
  That's not all call on on 25th Christmas with no conversations before or after.
• 36:32
  And I think, you know, I've had many, many people sharing that that were very intimidated
• 36:37
  by zoom and technology and FaceTime like you said, with your mom that have, you know,
• 36:43
  really, this feeling of success.
• 36:46
  Right?
• 36:46
  They've they've done it now, and it's opened up.
• 36:49
  Some other options.
• 36:50
  So, you know, I know somebody that's a big sister to a little boy and, through big
• 36:55
  brothers, big sisters.
• 36:56
  And they bake together.
• 36:59
  So his family gets the ingredients she has in the end, you know, a little bit awkward at
• 37:04
  first, but this we've been doing this for a while.
• 37:08
  And so it's remembering that that I I I appreciate we're a little bit tired of it as
• 37:14
  well.
• 37:15
  But if we we find ways to be flexible with it.
• 37:22
  Right?
• 37:22
  I I think things you know, I've I've I've heard of wine tastings, right, where You know, and
• 37:29
  like you said, that we know that feeling, it feels good when I've done something kind for
• 37:34
  somebody else.
• 37:34
  So if you, you know, there's, sending a card, writing a letter, making a phone call, if, you
• 37:40
  know, If you can afford sending a little package, care package, dropping it off, those
• 37:46
  things are good for us as human beings.
• 37:49
  Right?
• 37:49
  That connection So if I'm struggling, I think there's a lot of research around this, me
• 37:54
  thinking of somebody else in that time, just allows connection outwards.
• 38:00
  Right?
• 38:00
  It helps us get through that time.
• 38:03
  If we're You see
• 38:04
  when and you get lit up.
• 38:05
  I even think of myself as a friend.
• 38:08
  And she drop up the this beautiful bouquet probably, yep, a plant, right, about, say, 6
• 38:14
  weeks into COVID.
• 38:16
  And you know, it's funny how that it was like the bit, you know, it was like Christmas
• 38:19
  morning from it was like and she was, you know, ready maintaining her distance so she dropped
• 38:25
  it off.
• 38:25
  Then she called me and she says I'm out front and she stepped away, but it was such a it was
• 38:31
  it it just lit up my heart that I hadn't seen her also, and I recognized that, you know, like
• 38:36
  you said, adapting to that person's risk tolerance and stuff like that.
• 38:40
  So it it was a big step for her to come to my home and to drop it off, but it was such a not
• 38:45
  I I mean, that that made me feel so happy for, you know, just to be able to look and and enjoy
• 38:51
  the flowers and stuff like that.
• 38:52
  So I think sometimes it's something
• 38:54
  that those little things, how significant they are what they it doesn't have to be all the
• 39:00
  bells and whistles.
• 39:01
  Right?
• 39:01
  Right.
• 39:02
  Right.
• 39:03
  Which is oftentimes what Christmas gets.
• 39:04
  It's it's it it gets into that consumerism and stuff like that, you know, whereas I think it's
• 39:09
  the simple act of kindness that I think will probably get us through this and for us to be
• 39:16
  gentle and kind, not just with others, but also with ourselves to say, you know, how are we
• 39:20
  gonna create the memory in a less than ideal situation so that we can get through this un as
• 39:27
  unscathed as possible.
• 39:28
  We're we're some of us are gonna be sad to go through different situation, but that's normal.
• 39:32
  And if you are sad, just experience it as, you know, kind of where where we're at in the world
• 39:38
  or where, how we're how we're going through things.
• 39:41
  Yeah.
• 39:42
  So, Sue, this has been amazing.
• 39:44
  Any last words for people, for people that are wanting to maybe connect with you that, might
• 39:49
  want to reach out for your services.
• 39:51
  I want you to tell them what they can reach you or just any last words that you'd have around
• 39:56
  coping through through the holidays.
• 39:58
  Well, you know, I know there are quite a few resources that have been put up by the
• 40:03
  provincial government.
• 40:04
  You know, I spec federal and probably in other areas.
• 40:09
  There you know, the distress center, it's 20 fourseven.
• 40:13
  Right?
• 40:13
  I think there's a lot more awareness of people just needing to get through those humps in the
• 40:19
  day, those moments that can feel overwhelming.
• 40:22
  And so not to hesitate.
• 40:25
  I think people have an understanding, you know, that it has to be very dire before I reach out
• 40:30
  and and ask for help.
• 40:32
  We're all in this together.
• 40:33
  Everybody understands it.
• 40:35
  So there's a shared experience in that regard.
• 40:38
  Nobody nobody is going to not understand what it feels like to be struggling with COVID.
• 40:45
  And I would really encourage people you know, especially if they're feeling lonely and
• 40:50
  they're feeling maybe some loss is is to not necessarily wait for others to reach out.
• 40:59
  You know, I I think it's really important to to make that connection yourself.
• 41:03
  Guarantee the person on the other end of the line, you know, we'll be happy to hear from
• 41:08
  you.
• 41:08
  I I think we are all we're all struggling with with a little more isolation, right, a little
• 41:15
  less socializing, a little less joy and hope.
• 41:20
  So there is something to be said of taking care of each other.
• 41:25
  And maybe worse before we go, oh, they're too busy, or I don't wanna I don't wanna worry them
• 41:31
  with my problems.
• 41:33
  I don't wanna, you know, trusting that.
• 41:36
  I think just sharing our experiences is It's, you know, it's quite a profound human
• 41:43
  connection.
• 41:44
  And and that can, you know, not just our our hard times, but also just in general how we're
• 41:48
  feeling.
• 41:48
  And like you said, it's a nice opportunity talk about some recipes or favorite Christmas
• 41:52
  memories.
• 41:53
  Absol absolutely.
• 41:55
  Or where your ugliest Yes.
• 41:58
  Such a sweater and and do, you know, get together and and laugh and joke and and share
• 42:04
  stories, those types of things.
• 42:06
  Thanks again for your time.
• 42:07
  Where can people reach you if they're wanting to, you know, work with you?
• 42:12
  Sullimburner.com.
• 42:15
  Okay.
• 42:15
  And the the link will be in the show notes as well.
• 42:18
  So what am I walking away with?
• 42:20
  I think, just being kind and gentle for your to yourself accepting that this is, unfortunately,
• 42:28
  this year will be a grief ridden kind of experience for most of us.
• 42:32
  We are human beings and we're mammals and we need to connect.
• 42:35
  So to think, what could I do to extend out to connect to the people in my life?
• 42:40
  And to Sue's point, don't wait till Christmas day, but try to maybe, you know, reach out even
• 42:46
  before so that you can have a bit more of a, you know, conversation about what potentially
• 42:51
  is going on.
• 42:52
  So for anybody that would like to have a consultation, how to connect a little bit more
• 42:57
  authentically, You know, you can, you know, hit the link below with the show notes and you can
• 43:03
  get to me, through, roxanderhot.com.
• 43:08
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive,
• 43:13
  healthy change.
• 43:15
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
• 43:21
  rocksandurhaj.com/blueprint.
• 43:25
  We'll see next time on authentic living with Roxanne.