Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / Kill Bill: The Whole Bloody Affair (2004) - Quentin Tarantino | Houselights #216

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Kill Bill: The Whole Bloody Affair (2004) - Quentin Tarantino | Houselights #216 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

0:03
Speaker 1: Welcome to the ned Palty.
0:20
Speaker 2: Welcome back to House Lights, our director discussion show here
0:23
Speaker 2: on the nerd Party Network. This week, we're continuing the
0:26
Speaker 2: House of Tarantino with his two thousand and three two
0:29
Speaker 2: thousand and four split with the Katana film Kill Bill.
0:32
Speaker 2: I'm sword Maker Darren Moser. I make Darren Moser, but no,
0:39
Speaker 2: the name that doesn't mean anything, okay, And I'm joined
0:41
Speaker 2: again by my friends from the Deadly Viper Assassination Squad,
0:45
Speaker 2: John Copperhead Mills and Tristan the California Mountain Snake Riddell.
0:50
Speaker 2: Looking forward for this small and ridiculously violent animated portion
0:55
Speaker 2: of this podcast. As we discussed Kill Bill, the whole
0:59
Speaker 2: bloody of fair Yes, yes, they have to have that music,
1:19
Speaker 2: didn't They put it? Like in everything after that, every trailer,
1:22
Speaker 2: everything had that after.
1:24
Speaker 3: Every single trailer used that with.
1:27
Speaker 2: A little jump cut, like everything you could.
1:31
Speaker 4: You couldn't turn around. It's practically like you would open
1:33
Speaker 4: up a display case to get a diet coke. And
1:35
Speaker 4: it was like, it's like, all right enough already, Yes.
1:39
Speaker 2: You're not wrong, you're not wrong. It probably happened. Yeah,
1:42
Speaker 2: Early Cousins takes me takes me back, speaking of taking
1:45
Speaker 2: us back, I think we're in a movie that we
1:47
Speaker 2: all probably watched in theaters, which happens very infrequently actually
1:53
Speaker 2: here on the Nerd Party Network. So let's go. I'm
1:57
Speaker 2: gonna start with my story because I think it's a
1:59
Speaker 2: really cool one. And so this movie, as we described
2:03
Speaker 2: in our intro, was Katana cut in two, not by
2:09
Speaker 2: the director's choice, but instead of a four hour epic,
2:13
Speaker 2: it was too, roughly a two hour and two and
2:16
Speaker 2: some change movies that were split. I think it was
2:20
Speaker 2: October three to April four, but for some reason, I
2:24
Speaker 2: was like, no, I am not going to wait several
2:28
Speaker 2: months between. But I you know, I'm not going to
2:32
Speaker 2: jump over the fence of the movie studio and steal
2:35
Speaker 2: a copy. Instead, I'm just going to be patient. And fortunately,
2:38
Speaker 2: I think actually Tarantino delayed the initial release so that
2:43
Speaker 2: it actually did coincide right after the DVD release of
2:47
Speaker 2: Part one. So I timed my Blockbuster rental yes it
2:51
Speaker 2: was a company back then, and had kill Bill Volume one,
2:54
Speaker 2: watched it with my roommates, timed it with my pre
2:58
Speaker 2: bot showing for Part two so that it would end
3:01
Speaker 2: I could get in my car drive to the theater
3:04
Speaker 2: and roughly within thirty minutes was in part two, so
3:08
Speaker 2: not too bad of I mean, people pause to go
3:11
Speaker 2: to the bathroom and get popcorn. You know, that's a
3:14
Speaker 2: commercial break, really is what it was. But that's not
3:17
Speaker 2: how we watched it. This week. We watched the whole
3:19
Speaker 2: Bloody Affair, which combined it into one, and we'll talk
3:23
Speaker 2: about just kind of that cinematicness. But Tristan, let's jump
3:27
Speaker 2: to you. What was your first time watching this? Were
3:31
Speaker 2: you in the in the masses waiting waiting between Did
3:35
Speaker 2: you have posters with the yellow katana on your on
3:39
Speaker 2: your I didn't.
3:40
Speaker 3: I didn't have the yellow katana post or anything like that,
3:43
Speaker 3: but I was. I was very much gung ho about this,
3:47
Speaker 3: like I was all in. The marketing absolutely worked on me,
3:52
Speaker 3: and I was. I was very very excited. I did
3:55
Speaker 3: see this in the theater. I cannot remember how I
3:58
Speaker 3: saw it or who I saw it with. But one
4:00
Speaker 3: thing I do remember, and this is always a special
4:03
Speaker 3: memory to me, is you know, like you know, me
4:06
Speaker 3: and my me and my friends, especially me and my
4:07
Speaker 3: best friend Daniel, we were so jazzed with Kill Bill
4:10
Speaker 3: Volume one that we couldn't wait for Kill Bill volume
4:13
Speaker 3: two to come out, and the theatrical showing of kill
4:16
Speaker 3: Bill volume two came out on the same day as
4:19
Speaker 3: the last day of classes that I had for high school,
4:22
Speaker 3: and and so me and kind of a core group
4:25
Speaker 3: of friends, actually the main the main group was me,
4:28
Speaker 3: my best friend Daniel, and his girlfriend now wife, Caitlin.
4:32
Speaker 3: We hosted a party over at my house when we
4:34
Speaker 3: were marathoning Reservoir Dogs pulp Fiction. We skipped to Jackie
4:38
Speaker 3: Brown and did Kill Bill volume one, and we marathon
4:41
Speaker 3: those and then we all went to a midnight showing
4:44
Speaker 3: of Kill Bill volume two. And it was kind of
4:47
Speaker 3: like an open door policy at my house where like
4:49
Speaker 3: some people came and watched pulp fiction, some people came
4:52
Speaker 3: and watched all of the movies together, or some people
4:55
Speaker 3: came in and out. But it was just it was
4:57
Speaker 3: such a cool thing to just rush home after the
5:00
Speaker 3: last day of classes, do our marathon together and go
5:03
Speaker 3: to the midnight showing. It was and none of it
5:06
Speaker 3: disappointed us. Like we walked out at like two thirty
5:09
Speaker 3: in the morning and we're like, this is amazing, wish
5:11
Speaker 3: we could go back and watch it again.
5:13
Speaker 2: I totally thought this was going to be a senior
5:15
Speaker 2: skip story, like you're setting it up like last day
5:18
Speaker 2: of high school and a great movie's coming out. I
5:21
Speaker 2: should have I'm not surprised, though, I'm not surprised. That's
5:23
Speaker 2: a much better way to end your high school by
5:26
Speaker 2: just inviting people into your home and watching Tarantino films.
5:31
Speaker 2: All right, yes, John, two thousand and three, think back,
5:35
Speaker 2: you know, maybe you have a cell phone, maybe you don't.
5:38
Speaker 2: You know, it's it's way.
5:39
Speaker 4: Baby, No, please come on. Two thousand and three. When
5:42
Speaker 4: this movie came out, I was engaged to be married,
5:44
Speaker 4: you young Coots, and I even back then, my lovely
5:48
Speaker 4: wife to be refused to go see a movie with
5:51
Speaker 4: me because he's like, I'm not interested in that, And
5:53
Speaker 4: I was like, all right, fine, And the thing is
5:54
Speaker 4: being the independent man that I am. I was like,
5:57
Speaker 4: I don't care. I'm stoked for kill Bill. I couldn't
6:01
Speaker 4: wait to see Kill Bill. I was so excited to
6:03
Speaker 4: see Kill Bill. Unfortunately, the way they ended volume one.
6:08
Speaker 4: I'm also a legendary curmudgeon. I'm very picky about how
6:12
Speaker 4: my part one's.
6:13
Speaker 2: Ever picked up on that over the hundreds of episodes
6:15
Speaker 2: we've done. Very John, very.
6:17
Speaker 4: Particular, you know, Matrix reloaded. That one pissed me off,
6:21
Speaker 4: and it was like, you know, because it ended with
6:24
Speaker 4: like and you'll be back for part three, And I
6:25
Speaker 4: walked out of the theater going want to make a bet
6:27
Speaker 4: and oddly.
6:28
Speaker 2: Tell me back to the future with like, wilverdine.
6:31
Speaker 4: Love the ending of part two. Okay, okay, love the
6:33
Speaker 4: ending of part two because there was internal resolution, right,
6:37
Speaker 4: there was internal resolution with that story. That's the key
6:41
Speaker 4: for me, Exactly the end of a chapter made sense.
6:46
Speaker 4: Kill Bill's ending. Volume one's ending really ticked me off,
6:50
Speaker 4: and I was a bit put off. And this is
6:53
Speaker 4: the thing is, I went without seeing volume two for
6:57
Speaker 4: a long time, longer than I should have, because I
6:59
Speaker 4: was still so about it, and I started to nitpick
7:01
Speaker 4: the things that got a little on my nerves even
7:03
Speaker 4: watching it this time. The anime part is so self indulgent.
7:08
Speaker 4: I understand from a cynical point of view why it's necessary.
7:11
Speaker 4: You can't show that origin story with the Little Kid
7:16
Speaker 4: live action. You're not getting that movie released in any
7:19
Speaker 4: civilized country. So I understand it from a cynical point
7:23
Speaker 4: of view. Okay, I get it. However, like it went
7:26
Speaker 4: on for so long, I was like really and then
7:29
Speaker 4: fountains of Blood and stuff like that. I was like,
7:31
Speaker 4: this is a little much, guys, and that ending pushed
7:34
Speaker 4: me over the edge. But then when I saw Volume two,
7:37
Speaker 4: I loved Volume two. I was like, this, this is
7:40
Speaker 4: what I signed up for. What's going on here? And now,
7:43
Speaker 4: having seen it all together, was my opinion of the
7:45
Speaker 4: whole blood affair. Let's go on a journey of discovery, folks,
7:48
Speaker 4: and find out.
7:49
Speaker 2: What that is. Journey of discovery. Yeah. Well, and this
7:52
Speaker 2: was the only Tarantino movie I had seen until we
7:55
Speaker 2: started this section of house Lights, so I was in
7:59
Speaker 2: the hype with my film major friends and stuff to
8:02
Speaker 2: actually go see it. So this was my first exposure
8:04
Speaker 2: to Tarantino. And then you know, I didn't promptly you know, oh,
8:09
Speaker 2: let's reservoir dogs and all that stuff and things like that,
8:12
Speaker 2: but overall it was, you know, enough for me to
8:15
Speaker 2: stage my extra long popcorn break method of watching the film.
8:20
Speaker 4: But no, but I want to get to that though,
8:22
Speaker 4: because you know you've mentioned this before that like, this
8:25
Speaker 4: is basically the only Tarantino you've seen until he came
8:27
Speaker 4: here to house Lights all these many years later. What
8:29
Speaker 4: was it that didn't resonate like why didn't you walk
8:32
Speaker 4: out of kill Bill volume two after seeing both of
8:34
Speaker 4: them back to back so close, and go, boy, I
8:37
Speaker 4: want more what that guy is making. You didn't see
8:39
Speaker 4: anything that came out after, and you didn't double back
8:42
Speaker 4: to see the stuff that came before. What was it
8:45
Speaker 4: that did not click? Like obviously there must have been
8:47
Speaker 4: something where it was good but not great to you
8:50
Speaker 4: in some way? What was there some sort of vibe
8:53
Speaker 4: that it didn't have or did It was.
8:55
Speaker 2: Less about kill Bill not doing it for me, more
9:00
Speaker 2: about just what I'd heard about his other pictures just
9:03
Speaker 2: didn't sound like my cup of tea, like the violence,
9:07
Speaker 2: the or the blood like because again there's tons of blood,
9:10
Speaker 2: but there's kind of a different style in kill Bill.
9:14
Speaker 2: It's going for the practical, kind of over the top,
9:16
Speaker 2: you know, spraying from every chopped limb like it's fake.
9:20
Speaker 2: It has a fakeness to it. And there was nothing
9:23
Speaker 2: in kill Bill that you know, grotests me. It's like,
9:26
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I can't you know watch this Like
9:28
Speaker 2: there was enough suspension of disbelief over the gore or
9:31
Speaker 2: the killing that it didn't you know, pecking me in
9:34
Speaker 2: that way. So yeah, so overall I enjoyed the story,
9:39
Speaker 2: but in its way. I mean, I think we can
9:41
Speaker 2: say that kill Bill is an homage and reverence to many,
9:46
Speaker 2: you know, Japanese films and that kind of style, which
9:50
Speaker 2: were never my genre of love. Not that I didn't
9:53
Speaker 2: like them, they just weren't. So it wasn't like, oh
9:56
Speaker 2: my gosh, I've been waiting for this type of cinema
9:59
Speaker 2: my whole life. Like it just again, I enjoyed it,
10:02
Speaker 2: but it wasn't you know. I was more of the
10:04
Speaker 2: sci fi and the action and like that was my
10:07
Speaker 2: genre of taste, not this one. But that's a great question, John,
10:11
Speaker 2: great question.
10:11
Speaker 4: Well, but it's interesting because you call out the gore,
10:15
Speaker 4: something that really jumped out to me this time. I
10:16
Speaker 4: think it probably jumped out to me before, but that
10:19
Speaker 4: was interesting this time. At the very least is when
10:22
Speaker 4: she's in the hospital bed and the piece of garbage
10:25
Speaker 4: is going to do his piece of garbage thing and
10:27
Speaker 4: she bites his lip. That's the most realistic type of
10:31
Speaker 4: violence we're gonna get really in this movie, I would say,
10:34
Speaker 4: like a lot of it, you know, plucking eyeballs out,
10:36
Speaker 4: chopping limbs off, geysers of blood, all of that stuff.
10:39
Speaker 4: That's the moment he decides not to show the gore.
10:42
Speaker 4: We see her bite down, we see it stretch out,
10:45
Speaker 4: we cut to outside. We don't see that particular bit
10:49
Speaker 4: of violence in the extreme, which I found such an
10:52
Speaker 4: interesting sort of thing because like you're talking about, like
10:55
Speaker 4: except for then, of course the orderly's head getting slammed
10:58
Speaker 4: in the door, but even that is done in such
11:00
Speaker 4: a way that I don't have to watch it. I
11:02
Speaker 4: don't see. It's not like a casino where he crushes
11:04
Speaker 4: the guy's head and the vice or something like that. Right,
11:07
Speaker 4: the camera cuts away before you see like the worst parts.
11:10
Speaker 4: You know, it's a disturbing sEH No, you're welcome for that.
11:14
Speaker 4: Heads up, no pun intended, but you know, it's it's
11:17
Speaker 4: interesting because those super real violence that could have been
11:22
Speaker 4: absolutely stomach churning is what he won't show. But then
11:25
Speaker 4: all the over the top stuff is fair game.
11:28
Speaker 2: And that's interesting. You mentioned the lip biting scene because
11:30
Speaker 2: that one always kind of it confused me because she's
11:34
Speaker 2: like biting on his lip, and then the next shot
11:36
Speaker 2: it's like she's covered in blood and he's like knocked out,
11:38
Speaker 2: and I'm like, did she head? But him like I
11:40
Speaker 2: didn't see what caused him being knocked out, because I'm like,
11:44
Speaker 2: losing a little bit of blood from biting your lip
11:46
Speaker 2: is not going to kill you. But I mean it
11:49
Speaker 2: was negligible. We moved on and you know, we start
11:52
Speaker 2: the Bride's new scene. What is your thoughts on the
11:55
Speaker 2: violent scale of kill? Bill? Is it? Oh? Yeah, this
11:59
Speaker 2: is the next one, be and Tarantino, this is what
12:01
Speaker 2: I'm expecting? Or was the you know, homagenouness of it,
12:06
Speaker 2: like a different kind of flavor of violence, Like how
12:09
Speaker 2: did you perceive it when you watched it.
12:11
Speaker 3: It was interesting because when the movie was coming out,
12:14
Speaker 3: a good friend of mine, Benjamin, didn't want to go
12:16
Speaker 3: see it because of that and because of the violence,
12:20
Speaker 3: and because I think he has a thing with dismemberment.
12:24
Speaker 3: And he says it like a lot of it was
12:25
Speaker 3: played for laughs, and he says, he's like, I don't
12:27
Speaker 3: want to laugh at people.
12:29
Speaker 2: There is a lot of dismemberment.
12:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, so fair. So I didn't judge him at all
12:34
Speaker 3: for that. I was just like, hey, you know, we
12:35
Speaker 3: all got to know our own limits. And I think,
12:38
Speaker 3: you know, like I can't stand gore done in a
12:42
Speaker 3: serious tone. You know, like I can't handle it with
12:46
Speaker 3: with when movies are torture porn or just like you know,
12:50
Speaker 3: horror fests that are just mutilation, you know, two hours
12:53
Speaker 3: of mutilation, that's just not my bag. But with this one,
12:58
Speaker 3: because it's done in such a stylistic element where it's
13:03
Speaker 3: clear it's over the top. It's clear that this is
13:05
Speaker 3: Tarantino just playing on the trope and the homage to
13:08
Speaker 3: old Kung Fu movies and other Asian films that you know,
13:11
Speaker 3: like have a lot of gore like this, you know,
13:13
Speaker 3: like I mean when Tanaka's head was cut off, it
13:15
Speaker 3: just kept spraying blood and then like just for an
13:18
Speaker 3: abnormal amount of time. You know, it was hilarious. And
13:21
Speaker 3: like that kind of stuff I can take, like the
13:23
Speaker 3: tongue in cheek stuff I can I can usually take.
13:25
Speaker 3: But so with me, you know, I thought it was
13:28
Speaker 3: I thought it was great, And John, I am with
13:32
Speaker 3: you one hundred percent. With over an Eeshy's origin story,
13:38
Speaker 3: it's self indulgent. It's way too long. It stops the
13:42
Speaker 3: movie dead in its tracks. I mean, it kills the
13:45
Speaker 3: pacing beyond belief. And I know that there are people
13:48
Speaker 3: out there who are big anime fans, and I get that,
13:50
Speaker 3: and I'm sure that there are people who are like, oh,
13:52
Speaker 3: that's my favorite part of the movie. Well you're not wrong.
13:54
Speaker 3: You know, you're not wrong. If that's your favorite part
13:56
Speaker 3: of the movie, that's your favorite part of the movie.
13:58
Speaker 3: But for me, it just didn't need to be in there.
14:01
Speaker 3: It would have been a much shorter movie and he
14:04
Speaker 3: might have been able to sell it. I think as
14:07
Speaker 3: a as a as a one long piece to I'm.
14:10
Speaker 2: Trying to segment is, but it was.
14:13
Speaker 3: It's a long it felt long.
14:14
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's even longer in the Whole Bloody Affair. It's
14:17
Speaker 4: even longer than Volume one. They insert him stuff. It's
14:21
Speaker 4: well it's not like it's not like twenty minutes longer,
14:23
Speaker 4: but it's more graphic. There is more shots of the
14:26
Speaker 4: gore and stuff like that that's in the anime part.
14:29
Speaker 4: Like they did trim it down a little bit for
14:31
Speaker 4: the Volume one. I again, it's not a tremendous amount.
14:34
Speaker 4: It's probably negligible. Yeah, it's it's just it's more for
14:40
Speaker 4: what it is.
14:40
Speaker 3: But yeah, you guys, watch the Whole Bloody Affair. I
14:43
Speaker 3: watched Volume one and then Volume two. You know these
14:45
Speaker 3: I just got the four K releases and I wanted
14:47
Speaker 3: to watch those.
14:47
Speaker 4: Were the transfer is good.
14:48
Speaker 3: It's there's I don't want to say controversy because it's
14:51
Speaker 3: such a small group of people who consider this a controversy.
14:55
Speaker 3: I mean, it's so small. It's a blip. It's a blip.
14:58
Speaker 3: But like there are people who have been upset about
15:01
Speaker 3: it because you look at Reservoir Dogs, you look at
15:03
Speaker 3: pulp fiction, you look at Jackie Brown's four K transfers.
15:06
Speaker 3: They are freaking immaculate. They are beautiful, They're absolutely gorgeous.
15:11
Speaker 3: Like I feel like Reservoir Dogs and pulp fiction can
15:13
Speaker 3: become reference discs. And with Kill Bill Volume one and two,
15:18
Speaker 3: he finished the movie in two K, like you know,
15:21
Speaker 3: so that that was it, Like he when he did
15:23
Speaker 3: all the because he mixed so many different formats and
15:26
Speaker 3: different so many different you know, film mediums and you
15:30
Speaker 3: know sixteen millimeters, thirty five millimeters and everything like that,
15:33
Speaker 3: and like he dirtied it up and and everything. So
15:35
Speaker 3: he just finished it in two K and the source material,
15:38
Speaker 3: like the finished material is no higher than two K.
15:41
Speaker 3: So everything was upreds to four K. Now, granted you're
15:44
Speaker 3: getting more bit depth, you're getting HDR and Dolby Vision.
15:48
Speaker 3: I don't actually I'm not sure about Dolly Vision. I
15:50
Speaker 3: cann't remember. But you're getting you know, you're getting HDR,
15:53
Speaker 3: wider color gambit, and so it's better than the Blu rays.
15:57
Speaker 3: But some people might not see a enough difference because
16:01
Speaker 3: if you're coming from pulp fiction to Kill Bill, it
16:04
Speaker 3: doesn't look like there's any difference from the Blu ray.
16:06
Speaker 3: But if you look at it purely from a standalone piece,
16:09
Speaker 3: it's the best it's ever looked. Okay, even if somebody
16:12
Speaker 3: thinks it's just nominal.
16:13
Speaker 4: Okay, Well, I see that's I mean to your point,
16:16
Speaker 4: that stuff is exhausting, but there is, you know, because
16:19
Speaker 4: so long as we're talking about the visual and stuff
16:21
Speaker 4: like that, this is his first time working with Robert Richardson,
16:24
Speaker 4: so which is going to be a relationship that he
16:26
Speaker 4: keeps for some time after that. I mean I was
16:29
Speaker 4: looking for it, like when the you know, the name
16:31
Speaker 4: comes up in the cress, I'm like, oh right, I
16:33
Speaker 4: got to look for those visual stylings of Richardson. This
16:37
Speaker 4: is this is where I know I'm going to start
16:40
Speaker 4: to be able to see Tarantino in more of a
16:42
Speaker 4: conversation with his cinematographer instead of pushing his cinematographer to
16:47
Speaker 4: give him something right. Richardson feels like the type of
16:50
Speaker 4: cinematographer who's going to come in and be like, hey,
16:52
Speaker 4: I shot something like this, I think it would look
16:53
Speaker 4: better like that, and Tarantino will say, well, listen to it,
16:57
Speaker 4: like I'm not trying to sew any sort of like
16:59
Speaker 4: disrespect whole thing. In the first three, which I think
17:01
Speaker 4: are beautiful films too, I'm saying this is the first
17:03
Speaker 4: time where he's talking with somebody who he'll listen to,
17:07
Speaker 4: like if he disagrees with him. Does that make sense?
17:10
Speaker 3: What's interesting is when you look at Killble Volume one
17:13
Speaker 3: and Killble the Volume two, and then compare it to
17:16
Speaker 3: the Aviator by SCRESESEI, which Richardson also shot. He was
17:20
Speaker 3: doing those around the same time. And so even though
17:23
Speaker 3: one is one is a Kung Fu homage, one is
17:26
Speaker 3: a Western homage, and then one is takes place in
17:29
Speaker 3: the thirties, it's interesting to see this kind of symmetry
17:33
Speaker 3: between all three that they were shot by the same individual,
17:36
Speaker 3: three movies, two different directors, three different genres, but yet
17:40
Speaker 3: you can you can see that through line all at
17:42
Speaker 3: this one time, because like Richardson, like, you know, the
17:44
Speaker 3: guy just to throw this out there. You know, he
17:47
Speaker 3: did Wall Street, Born on the fourth of July, The Doors, JFK,
17:50
Speaker 3: A Few Good Men, Natural Born Killers, Casino, Nixon, Horse Whisper,
17:55
Speaker 3: Bringing Out the Dead.
17:56
Speaker 2: We're not talking about Christina, We're moving the.
17:58
Speaker 3: Good Shepherd and Glorious Bastard, Shutter Island, You'd Pray Love, Hugo, Django,
18:02
Speaker 3: World war Z, What's upon a Time in Hollywood? Finim
18:05
Speaker 3: that the Carnage Air, the Equalizer. Yeah, you know, this
18:08
Speaker 3: guy knows what he's doing.
18:09
Speaker 4: But see that that's fascinating as well because he did
18:12
Speaker 4: do Natural Born Killers. So we all know Tarantino hates
18:17
Speaker 4: what Stone did with that movie. So there's a really
18:21
Speaker 4: weird thing to me going on there where it's like
18:24
Speaker 4: he's gonna work with a cinematographer that worked on the
18:27
Speaker 4: movie he hates that Stone did based on his work.
18:30
Speaker 4: That like, that's just got to be weird. Like it's
18:33
Speaker 4: almost like there's a weird dominant sort of thing where
18:35
Speaker 4: it's like, I'm gonna make a better movie than you
18:36
Speaker 4: did with my material in the same cinema.
18:38
Speaker 2: I like what you're doing. I'm gonna show you what
18:40
Speaker 2: you did wrong, and we're not gonna do that on
18:42
Speaker 2: my movie.
18:43
Speaker 4: It's like, okay, sure, yeah, something like that.
18:47
Speaker 2: Well besides just the cinematography and yeah, because there's it's
18:50
Speaker 2: it's all over the place. I'm not saying in a
18:52
Speaker 2: bad way. I'm just saying, And there's lots of different styles.
18:55
Speaker 2: There's like when she's driving in the car, I mean,
18:57
Speaker 2: it looks like a rear projection shot. It's a very
19:00
Speaker 2: specific type of shot.
19:02
Speaker 3: But it's supposed to look like it's supposed to.
19:04
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's definitely supposed to.
19:07
Speaker 3: That was actually one thing I'm so I'm so sorry
19:10
Speaker 3: to keep that thought, keep that thought. I have seen
19:14
Speaker 3: the whole blood Affair before, but it cannot remember what's
19:16
Speaker 3: in it what's not. But one the thing that I
19:19
Speaker 3: missed the most out of the whole Bloody Affair is
19:22
Speaker 3: her intro in volume two when she's driving the car
19:26
Speaker 3: and she's like, well I roared.
19:28
Speaker 5: And I ram paged and I got bloody satisfaction. Thurmon
19:33
Speaker 5: does such perfect job with that monologue. It would have
19:38
Speaker 5: been so easy to be too cheesy or too serious,
19:42
Speaker 5: and she walks that line like a tight rope perfectly,
19:47
Speaker 5: and I absolutely missed that in the whole Bloody Affair.
19:50
Speaker 2: Well and the other I mean, let's talk about the differences. Yeah,
19:55
Speaker 2: because again it's been a while since i'd watched part
19:57
Speaker 2: one and two, so I didn't even remember that there
19:58
Speaker 2: was that monologue in the in the beginning of part two,
20:02
Speaker 2: but the difference that jumped up to me is and
20:06
Speaker 2: it was I think it was only like the very
20:08
Speaker 2: last line of the first part or something was when
20:11
Speaker 2: they're like, did she I can't remember exactly what it was,
20:14
Speaker 2: but it's basically implying like she doesn't know that her
20:16
Speaker 2: kids still alive?
20:17
Speaker 4: Yeah? Does she know that her daughter's still alive?
20:19
Speaker 2: Yeah? And so now us the audience know that, and
20:22
Speaker 2: we know that throughout the entire part two, which I
20:25
Speaker 2: get like it's a hook. It's like, oh my gosh,
20:27
Speaker 2: I gotta see part two to find out what happens.
20:29
Speaker 2: But I really enjoyed in the whole Body Affair not
20:32
Speaker 2: having that knowledge until she gets it at the very
20:35
Speaker 2: and then it's a jaw drop, Like I still remembered
20:38
Speaker 2: because I knew that part of the plot from seeing
20:41
Speaker 2: it before, but if first time through, I think it's
20:44
Speaker 2: a much better story that we don't know that until
20:48
Speaker 2: she is literally finally catching up to Bill and she's
20:52
Speaker 2: right there and you're like, oh, and yeah, the shock
20:55
Speaker 2: that's on her face as her whole momentum shifts. M hm.
21:00
Speaker 4: I agree with you. I think that that might have been.
21:02
Speaker 4: Actually what pushed me over the edge with the end
21:04
Speaker 4: of the first one was that line, you know, does
21:07
Speaker 4: you know her daughter is still alive? Like that might
21:09
Speaker 4: have been like under black.
21:11
Speaker 2: I think like it was a black screen, like it
21:12
Speaker 2: was just so tight on.
21:15
Speaker 4: I just think it's such a better reveal, like you're saying, like,
21:17
Speaker 4: I couldn't agree with you more. It's I think it
21:20
Speaker 4: works so much better as a singular piece, so that
21:23
Speaker 4: when she rounds that corner and sees Beebee, you with her,
21:28
Speaker 4: are stunned. It's that stunning moment of oh, everything just
21:32
Speaker 4: changed again. And so I agree with you on that completely.
21:36
Speaker 3: Is it better? Yes? But when I saw Volume one
21:39
Speaker 3: in theaters and that was the last line, I was
21:43
Speaker 3: the jackass who grabbed his friend and went.
21:45
Speaker 2: We gotta see Volume two.
21:47
Speaker 5: Where can I be like?
21:50
Speaker 2: But I think the point we're saying is if that
21:53
Speaker 2: line wasn't there. You still would have seen volume two.
21:56
Speaker 2: You were already hooked. It was just the little like
21:59
Speaker 2: the extra trying to turn it to eleven to really
22:02
Speaker 2: get those butts in the seats.
22:04
Speaker 3: I think it was it was desperation to have an
22:07
Speaker 3: ending note, right, You have to have something that gives
22:12
Speaker 3: you a punch, because the climax is the crazy eighty
22:16
Speaker 3: eights and you have you have the falling action that
22:19
Speaker 3: ends with with Sophie a one on one battle with Oren,
22:22
Speaker 3: and so you have this very little Daniu Ma with
22:26
Speaker 3: Sophie and Bill and you you got you got to
22:28
Speaker 3: have some sort of punch at the end. It can't
22:30
Speaker 3: just you can't just end Bill saying, oh, I hope
22:32
Speaker 3: you're okay.
22:33
Speaker 4: But but if I were to you know, I think
22:36
Speaker 4: because you're you're referring to the structure of one with
22:39
Speaker 4: Oren being the focus and everything. I think that one
22:42
Speaker 4: of the reasons I think it works better all together.
22:44
Speaker 4: And the reason I loved volume two when I saw
22:47
Speaker 4: it the first time was when I finally got around
22:50
Speaker 4: to it is I think you put your finger on
22:51
Speaker 4: it by mentioning Oren, Wren gets a get She's the
22:54
Speaker 4: only one that gets like a whole backstory treatment, gets
22:57
Speaker 4: this whole build up, gets this whole thing, a lot
22:59
Speaker 4: of focus on Lucy Lou. But Bud and Elle are
23:04
Speaker 4: more interesting adversaries to me, and I think that's why
23:08
Speaker 4: that imbalance was there. So I think putting it together
23:11
Speaker 4: as a whole thing works better because Ben feels like
23:15
Speaker 4: a build instead of its own, like there's no attempt
23:18
Speaker 4: to contain that to its own thing. Because I don't
23:20
Speaker 4: think o Ren is an interesting enough villain, even though
23:23
Speaker 4: she gets so much backstory given to her.
23:26
Speaker 2: It's a lot of tell and not show. It's I mean,
23:29
Speaker 2: it's we see, It's not like we don't see her
23:30
Speaker 2: cut the guy's head off. I'm just saying with.
23:33
Speaker 4: Our character, I'd say, I'd say if anything, Vivica A
23:37
Speaker 4: Fox kind of gets short change her character completely is
23:41
Speaker 4: she's you know, there and gone. And then we spend
23:43
Speaker 4: the whole film basically like with Oren. And but then
23:46
Speaker 4: when I get to the second part and I'm spending
23:49
Speaker 4: time with Bud, now I'm like, wow, these are these
23:52
Speaker 4: are really more interesting characters to me, Like the this
23:54
Speaker 4: is the Tarantino type of character, like that charismatic a
23:59
Speaker 4: hole type thing, And I think it's just I honestly
24:03
Speaker 4: think it's just that as a director, as a writer,
24:05
Speaker 4: he's more comfortable with those characters. He knows how to
24:08
Speaker 4: tell those characters. Oh Ren is his reach in this movie,
24:11
Speaker 4: Like he's trying to do something different with that character,
24:14
Speaker 4: and I just think you can sense that he's not
24:17
Speaker 4: fully comfortable with it.
24:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can. I can see that. I mean, there's
24:22
Speaker 2: I'd read that in research that the first half he
24:25
Speaker 2: was purposely trying to make you know the bride just
24:29
Speaker 2: I mean, there's mystery around her, like we don't know
24:31
Speaker 2: her name, it's bleeped, which is you know interesting?
24:34
Speaker 3: They did they have the classroom scene in the whole
24:37
Speaker 3: bloody h.
24:37
Speaker 4: Yes, Yes they did.
24:39
Speaker 2: Okay, yes, I think so, Yes they did.
24:42
Speaker 4: They definitely did.
24:42
Speaker 2: Yeah. She's like, you know, yeah, well, but all that
24:45
Speaker 2: to say is I believe Tarantina was saying in the
24:48
Speaker 2: first half he is making he wants to make her
24:50
Speaker 2: feel like a badass. He wants to make her like,
24:52
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, like look at all the you just
24:54
Speaker 2: tearing through all the enemies all that. It's not till
24:56
Speaker 2: the second half that she she's given a lot more humanity.
25:00
Speaker 2: We're meant to sympathize with her a lot more in
25:04
Speaker 2: that regard, But I don't know again, watching it all
25:08
Speaker 2: in one piece, I didn't necessarily feel like a Type
25:11
Speaker 2: A and a Type B telling of the story. But
25:15
Speaker 2: maybe that's what he said to himself to feel better
25:17
Speaker 2: about having to split his movie in half.
25:19
Speaker 4: I still I still don't understand why the whole Bloody
25:22
Speaker 4: Affair hasn't been released as an official release at this point.
25:25
Speaker 4: I mean, it debuted. It's New Beverly and like twenty
25:28
Speaker 4: eleven or something like that, and yes, yeah, and it's like, well, WHOA,
25:32
Speaker 4: what's the hold up? Like the fans want it man.
25:35
Speaker 3: And I don't think enough they can make more money
25:37
Speaker 3: off of two volumes and it's already there.
25:39
Speaker 4: And released all three. Like I mean, I think it's
25:42
Speaker 4: inevitable that well, when he gets to the when he
25:46
Speaker 4: gets the end of the career, you know, whether it's
25:49
Speaker 4: whether he gets called home or he actually makes his
25:51
Speaker 4: tenth movie, which hey, holdout hope might be a Star
25:54
Speaker 4: Trek movie. But like, when he finally gets to that
25:57
Speaker 4: finish line and they release the complete set, there's a
26:00
Speaker 4: part of me that's like, it's inevitable that they'll have
26:01
Speaker 4: the whole bloody affair in there, because they've already done
26:05
Speaker 4: these four K remasters of everything, and they're like, and
26:08
Speaker 4: here's the thing you can only get in this set,
26:10
Speaker 4: and that's like that, that's the little nugget that can
26:12
Speaker 4: throw in there. So I'm hoping that I outlast him
26:16
Speaker 4: in that way, so at least I can make it
26:18
Speaker 4: to that finish line. I guess the full four K
26:21
Speaker 4: special treatment version.
26:22
Speaker 2: Of four it. So I think we've covered, you know,
26:26
Speaker 2: the two part, the one part, the overall story. One
26:29
Speaker 2: of the things I wanted to say because we talked
26:31
Speaker 2: a bit about cinematography, but man, this whole movie, I
26:36
Speaker 2: was just reveling in shot choice, like the I mean,
26:42
Speaker 2: I think one of the peak moments is the you know,
26:44
Speaker 2: the eighty eight fight where you know, the the like
26:48
Speaker 2: looking in the sword at the people behind you and
26:50
Speaker 2: just everything was so not even just the big fight moments,
26:56
Speaker 2: but there was so much conscious choices. When she's being
27:00
Speaker 2: buried in the coffin and the light is slowly like disappearing,
27:04
Speaker 2: like there's just it's just a beautifully shot and framed movie.
27:09
Speaker 2: Like there's never a moment that I feel like He's like,
27:12
Speaker 2: oh yeah, just put the camera there somewhere, like everything
27:16
Speaker 2: was chosen. And I love that. I love that aspect
27:19
Speaker 2: of the movie, you know, animation aside or or or
27:23
Speaker 2: you know, grain or style. But you know, that's one
27:26
Speaker 2: of my high points for the movie. I think also
27:28
Speaker 2: how it could dabble into humor, you know, like you know,
27:31
Speaker 2: Pimou is like constantly, you know, you can make a
27:35
Speaker 2: drinking game of every single says something he's that's on
27:39
Speaker 2: his beard.
27:39
Speaker 3: And a friend of mine hallmark, Yeah, I had. I
27:44
Speaker 3: had a roommate and a friend of mine who his
27:46
Speaker 3: parents are Chinese, and he would dress up like Pime
27:51
Speaker 3: and they would he would he would have it like
27:53
Speaker 3: we were all, you know, film majors, and so some
27:56
Speaker 3: of his friends and us would would film him. I
27:58
Speaker 3: never did it, but some of his friends film him
28:00
Speaker 3: reading erotic fiction while dressed and sounding like pie May.
28:06
Speaker 3: And I need to find I want. I wonder if
28:08
Speaker 3: it's still on YouTube, but I need to find it
28:10
Speaker 3: and send to you guys, because I couldn't. I could
28:12
Speaker 3: not stop laughing because every once in a while he
28:14
Speaker 3: would just like the first one he did was Fifty
28:16
Speaker 3: Shades of Gray and he kept and it was he
28:19
Speaker 3: just read like the nastiest stuff from that from that book,
28:22
Speaker 3: and just every once in a while, I would like
28:23
Speaker 3: stutter and kind of look at the camera like what
28:25
Speaker 3: am I reading?
28:26
Speaker 2: Uh?
28:27
Speaker 4: You know, I I think I offered this to you,
28:29
Speaker 4: Tristan in passing at one point where and this is
28:32
Speaker 4: my little Star Wars he tour before I get to
28:34
Speaker 4: my my real point. But pie May, I love the
28:37
Speaker 4: character so much. I love what he does with it. It
28:39
Speaker 4: does perfectly evoke, evoke in a very loving fashion. Those
28:45
Speaker 4: you know those movies I watched on UHF on Saturday
28:49
Speaker 4: afternoons when it was rainy outside, Like that's the part
28:52
Speaker 4: of the movie where I really come alive where I'm like, yes,
28:55
Speaker 4: like this this is the this is me and film
28:58
Speaker 4: nerd Quentin Tarantino City is like, hey, I remember, I
29:00
Speaker 4: know the movie you're talking about, right, that sort of thing.
29:03
Speaker 4: And I think that as I watched it this time,
29:06
Speaker 4: because this is my first time watching it, after a
29:08
Speaker 4: certain point, I really like I look at it and
29:11
Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, look, another way they could have done
29:12
Speaker 4: a better version of Luke Skywalker in the sequel trilogy
29:15
Speaker 4: turned him into a Pieme and then everything's his fault
29:17
Speaker 4: because he was being an a hole. But I think
29:19
Speaker 4: that Darren, you're right about the photography is great, the
29:22
Speaker 4: directions there. But Sally Mankey, if she deserves awards for
29:27
Speaker 4: the first three I think Tarantino owes her a car
29:30
Speaker 4: and a house and a vacation home for editing that
29:34
Speaker 4: fight scene together because of the fact that it flows
29:38
Speaker 4: and it has a sense of place and pace and
29:40
Speaker 4: time that and oh my gosh, I can only imagine
29:44
Speaker 4: how sick she was of watching all of the takes
29:48
Speaker 4: from that and deciding how to put it together.
29:50
Speaker 2: Took it.
29:50
Speaker 3: It took eight weeks to film. Yeah, it took eight
29:53
Speaker 3: weeks to film the Crazy eighty eight fight. And it
29:56
Speaker 3: took eight weeks to film pulp fiction.
29:58
Speaker 4: That's insane. That's insane, that is insane. But the thing is,
30:05
Speaker 4: that's the thing that's frustrating is there are so many
30:07
Speaker 4: things that I can pick on Kill Bill, especially when
30:11
Speaker 4: it's split into two parts where I can pick on
30:13
Speaker 4: it four. But this is a work that's very easy
30:17
Speaker 4: to look at and say Tarantino is finally getting over
30:20
Speaker 4: his skis, He's finally getting a little bit too full
30:22
Speaker 4: of himself. But you break apart the Crazy Eights, you
30:25
Speaker 4: break up part certain other aspects of this movie. And
30:28
Speaker 4: this is a director who's still challenging himself to do
30:32
Speaker 4: something different and interesting for films in I mean, by
30:36
Speaker 4: this point, he can rest on his laurels and he
30:39
Speaker 4: can just make pulp fiction clones for the rest of
30:42
Speaker 4: his life and just stamp him out and that'll make
30:44
Speaker 4: him money and people will show up in the theater
30:47
Speaker 4: for a little while, and then he becomes a producer
30:50
Speaker 4: and all of that type of stuff. This is a
30:52
Speaker 4: guy who does something so radically different than what he's
30:58
Speaker 4: done before here and something that doesn't really I think
31:02
Speaker 4: get enough play in at least one sense. Is Jackie
31:06
Speaker 4: Brown and now this this is a director who is
31:10
Speaker 4: known for his very you know, in the first two movies,
31:12
Speaker 4: the very sort of like machismo type of character, right,
31:16
Speaker 4: the rough and tumble type of guy. And he's giving
31:20
Speaker 4: these you know, he's got these strong female leads. He's
31:24
Speaker 4: actually leveraging his ability to get whatever movie he wants
31:27
Speaker 4: made to tell stories where women are at the center
31:31
Speaker 4: of it. I think that's interesting in and of itself.
31:33
Speaker 4: But you know, he's actually even though this is also
31:36
Speaker 4: based on source material, but he's at least you know,
31:39
Speaker 4: doing that and then to button it up. Tristian, you
31:43
Speaker 4: mentioned Thurman's performance in the Kill Bill Volume two monologue
31:46
Speaker 4: that opens it. I think she's just fantastic throughout this
31:50
Speaker 4: entire thing, Like this is people will always reference Mia Wallace,
31:54
Speaker 4: but they should be referencing this because Thurman's performance, Like
31:58
Speaker 4: it's no small feet for an actress to go through
32:02
Speaker 4: this particular arc on this much film and actually have
32:07
Speaker 4: like such a complete character development, Like it's it's really
32:11
Speaker 4: a fantastic performance. Sorry for rambling, but like that's just
32:14
Speaker 4: all that stuff that's kicking around in there, we.
32:16
Speaker 2: Got to put it out there. Yeah, no, I think
32:19
Speaker 2: her performance, I mean she is the main character. She's
32:22
Speaker 2: in the whole movie. Like there's very little that ever
32:25
Speaker 2: cuts away or tells us or feels in other pieces.
32:29
Speaker 2: But yeah, it makes me think of something you guys
32:31
Speaker 2: said about Res of Our Dogs was that was a
32:34
Speaker 2: movie he would have made if it was even if
32:37
Speaker 2: he had like a tenth of the budget, Like he
32:39
Speaker 2: had to get that movie out. It was in him.
32:41
Speaker 2: And it feels like this is kind of you know,
32:44
Speaker 2: because like you said, it's a departure kind of from
32:46
Speaker 2: what he had done. He's not resting on his laurels.
32:48
Speaker 2: This kind of feels like reshooting your shot, but you're
32:52
Speaker 2: already an established director. Like this kind of feels like
32:54
Speaker 2: the movie he wanted to get out and he's throwing
32:58
Speaker 2: all these different homages and you know, yeah, we get
33:02
Speaker 2: the comic book, you know, discussion and you know some
33:05
Speaker 2: of the tarantinoisms, but it yeah, he's definitely challenging himself.
33:11
Speaker 2: I really agree with that.
33:12
Speaker 4: I think David Carradine does a great job with Bill,
33:16
Speaker 4: with all of his stuff, Like there's a really measured
33:20
Speaker 4: menace to how nice he is. But that comic book
33:24
Speaker 4: monologue annoys me, specifically because I think that the take
33:29
Speaker 4: on Superman is so as a character, is so cynical
33:34
Speaker 4: and wrong in so many ways. I understand that he's
33:39
Speaker 4: making a point about Beatrix couldn't live the life that
33:42
Speaker 4: she was trying to pretend to live. Okay, I get
33:44
Speaker 4: that and in that context and everything, but it's just
33:47
Speaker 4: it feels a shame that he had to drag Superman
33:50
Speaker 4: through the mud because I completely disagree with the way
33:54
Speaker 4: he's interpreting that character.
33:55
Speaker 3: Whoa whoa whoa, Wait, you're telling me that the son
34:01
Speaker 3: of a Bitch, mad dog killer Bill doesn't truly understand
34:05
Speaker 3: the heroism an altruism of Superman. Is that what you're
34:08
Speaker 3: turning to tell me?
34:09
Speaker 4: Uh No, I'm talking about like the whole he puts
34:11
Speaker 4: on the human I get what you're saying. But no,
34:14
Speaker 4: that's a moment actually where I would ding the movie
34:17
Speaker 4: because Bill suddenly goes to from oh this is Bill
34:21
Speaker 4: talking to Oh okay, Tarantina wrote this like it's it
34:25
Speaker 4: totally takes me out of it.
34:27
Speaker 2: That's one where he's like, well, hear me tell a story.
34:30
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, yeah, I mean it says yeah,
34:34
Speaker 2: I mean Tarantino is not in this movie. At least
34:36
Speaker 2: I don't think he is. I didn't see him anymore.
34:38
Speaker 3: He tried really hard to be py may No, I'm yes,
34:43
Speaker 3: if I could tell you how grateful I am that
34:46
Speaker 3: he wasn't like this movie so we would have skipped it.
34:50
Speaker 4: Wait, I think I think, especially today, there's no way
34:54
Speaker 4: we would have even talked about this movie at this point.
34:56
Speaker 4: What I'd say that that's that's an ender right there.
34:59
Speaker 2: Okay, I I'll maybe it wouldn't still wouldn't work, but
35:03
Speaker 2: I'd give him, like I think it's listed as like
35:06
Speaker 2: the bald guy who's like pouring tea with the Tory Hanzo,
35:10
Speaker 2: something real small in like one scene maybe two. I'm
35:14
Speaker 2: not saying I want that. I don't want him in
35:16
Speaker 2: the movie. He's fine not in the movie. But yes,
35:18
Speaker 2: to your point, John, Yeah, we all felt his scriptiness
35:23
Speaker 2: in the Let me talk about comedy. You know, I'm
35:25
Speaker 2: such a lover of comic books. I'm like, do we
35:27
Speaker 2: It has literally not been established in your character until
35:30
Speaker 2: this exact moment.
35:32
Speaker 4: It's it's actually I would go to Crimson Tide, and
35:36
Speaker 4: I would say that Crimson Tide discussion jumps out in
35:39
Speaker 4: the same sort of way, but it at least is
35:41
Speaker 4: in the service of oh, the Silver Surfer. You know.
35:45
Speaker 4: The Silver Surfer argument is like, okay, it works as
35:48
Speaker 4: three different characters as they're having a dumb fight sort
35:51
Speaker 4: of thing.
35:52
Speaker 2: Like books all the time, they just don't.
35:54
Speaker 4: I dare I Okay, treading on dangerous ground right there.
35:57
Speaker 2: It's called the nerd party. I should frame my state.
35:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, some of us. There's a few circles that John
36:02
Speaker 3: da run in.
36:03
Speaker 4: Okayah, yeah for sure. But I, my goodness, him is
36:07
Speaker 4: pie may That's that's a show. That's an ender right there.
36:10
Speaker 3: Like more than once during production he tried to be
36:14
Speaker 3: Pi may I.
36:16
Speaker 2: Whoever talked dressed up and they like shot it and
36:19
Speaker 2: then he like looked at the dailies out of.
36:21
Speaker 3: This terrible no, no, no, no, it never it never
36:23
Speaker 3: got that far. Thank god, it never got that far.
36:26
Speaker 4: Whoever talked him out of it should get a Christmas gift,
36:29
Speaker 4: a very lavish Christmas gift every year for the rest
36:31
Speaker 4: of their lives, because WHOA, what a bad idea that was.
36:36
Speaker 4: That's proof that he has friends, because he had a
36:38
Speaker 4: friend somewhere along the line.
36:40
Speaker 3: It was like q t I, nah, I know we did.
36:42
Speaker 3: We did have a few people who played a couple
36:44
Speaker 3: of different roles.
36:45
Speaker 2: Yes, that's true.
36:46
Speaker 3: In this which I thought was a lot of fun.
36:48
Speaker 4: Was it was great fun. It was great fun. And
36:50
Speaker 4: I thought that it was very very slick because he
36:53
Speaker 4: doesn't do it in such a way where he tries
36:56
Speaker 4: to hide it too hard, like it's it's almost like
36:58
Speaker 4: it's an internal easter where it's like are you paying
37:01
Speaker 4: attention and having fun with? And actually I think that
37:04
Speaker 4: plays into Darren's point where he's the violence is so
37:08
Speaker 4: it's basically like cartoon level that like it helps with
37:11
Speaker 4: the artifice of it all. But question then back at
37:15
Speaker 4: you for that. Does it hurt the investment in the
37:18
Speaker 4: characters at all? For either one of you?
37:19
Speaker 2: Well, I'm trying to think of the I mean, the
37:21
Speaker 2: one I know of is the head bald guy of
37:24
Speaker 2: the Crazy eighty eight was also Pieme. Like, I know,
37:27
Speaker 2: there's that duplicate, but and I think some of the
37:30
Speaker 2: gangster bosses in Oren's background were like Crazy eight and
37:35
Speaker 2: stuff like that. I'm blanking on those. Is there another
37:38
Speaker 2: giant double up?
37:39
Speaker 3: Michael Michael Parks played the sheriff and it is Deeban.
37:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, well man, just wearing the glasses was enough
37:45
Speaker 2: for me because I didn't pick up on that.
37:48
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, yeah go ahead, John, No, no, you
37:51
Speaker 3: go ahead, but you go ahead.
37:52
Speaker 2: Yeah.
37:53
Speaker 3: Well no, it's just saying, like the sheriff, you know,
37:54
Speaker 3: like he has a Texas accent, he's got the shades
37:58
Speaker 3: on and the and the cowboy hat and everything like that.
38:00
Speaker 3: But then you know, we go to uh, what is it,
38:04
Speaker 3: South America? I can't remember where it is. Yeah, and
38:07
Speaker 3: he's got a. He's got a huge tan, and he's
38:12
Speaker 3: in a literal brothel that was actually legit a brought
38:16
Speaker 3: They filmed it in a brothel, and those people that
38:18
Speaker 3: you saw were sex workers, and he's guy, he's got
38:22
Speaker 3: that accent on. He's like, yeah, I mean, it didn't
38:24
Speaker 3: scream Michael Parks when he did it.
38:25
Speaker 4: And according to what I've read years ago, that part
38:30
Speaker 4: was originally supposed to go to Ricardo Montabon, and I
38:33
Speaker 4: forget the exact reason why.
38:35
Speaker 3: But he was ill and couldn't make it to the
38:37
Speaker 3: read through, and so Tarantino just said, hey, Michael, could
38:41
Speaker 3: you could you just read Montaban's part? And he pulled
38:45
Speaker 3: out the accent and like just did he put his
38:48
Speaker 3: whole body and soul into it, And Tarantinio's like, holy crap, Okay,
38:52
Speaker 3: screw Montabon, We're just gonna have you to it.
38:55
Speaker 6: I mean, how future shot well, I mean, I you know,
38:58
Speaker 6: Parks is a great act I mean, you know, he's
39:00
Speaker 6: a legendary actor, and I think that what's fun about
39:04
Speaker 6: him about that performance especially, is that it's so it's
39:09
Speaker 6: unjust barely the correct side of camp, it's right up
39:13
Speaker 6: to that line, and it's that's another one of those
39:16
Speaker 6: sort of like winking parts where it's like, are you.
39:19
Speaker 4: Having fun right now? Because we're having fun right now.
39:22
Speaker 4: And that's why I love Esteban, Like that's such a
39:25
Speaker 4: that is a standout scene as a result.
39:28
Speaker 3: Apparently the thumb sucking story was based off of a
39:32
Speaker 3: real thing that Kurt Russell did when he was a kid,
39:35
Speaker 3: whenever Marilyn Monroe was on the screen when he was
39:39
Speaker 3: a boy.
39:39
Speaker 2: Really yes, really wow.
39:44
Speaker 3: I think Kurt Russell told that to Tarantino and Tarantino
39:47
Speaker 3: used it.
39:48
Speaker 4: That funny Well, yeah, all right, use what you know
39:52
Speaker 4: as a writer.
39:53
Speaker 3: And another thing, another thing that Tarantino did, like where
39:55
Speaker 3: you like put something into the script. So Madson would
39:59
Speaker 3: where I have no idea if this is true, but
40:02
Speaker 3: Madsen would wear the cowboy hat to set, and Tarantino
40:06
Speaker 3: hated it so much and Manton said, screw you, I'm
40:11
Speaker 3: gonna wear it, and so he wrote it into the
40:13
Speaker 3: strip club scene.
40:15
Speaker 4: Just so the strip club owner could tell him to
40:17
Speaker 4: take off that hat because it's.
40:18
Speaker 3: Stupid, because it's stupid, and he had to do it
40:21
Speaker 3: because it's in character.
40:22
Speaker 4: I love that.
40:23
Speaker 2: I love that full time he's filming so yeah, that's great. Yeah, no,
40:29
Speaker 2: So I mean overall, let's let's slowly slide into two
40:34
Speaker 2: final thoughts, just because there's lots of still pieces and
40:36
Speaker 2: I want to give us each time to to give
40:38
Speaker 2: our final pieces. I think overall, I mean the world building,
40:44
Speaker 2: like there is so much world building. I'm interested in this,
40:49
Speaker 2: you know, Deadly Viper Assassination Squad. We're given code names
40:53
Speaker 2: and you know, yeah, it is the backstory a little
40:56
Speaker 2: and even does Oren get more than Vivig Fox and
40:59
Speaker 2: all this bounce, Yeah, we see that. But once we're
41:02
Speaker 2: in it, you know, they're all different, like you know,
41:06
Speaker 2: like you know, some are still working, some are like
41:09
Speaker 2: you know, working at a you know, as a bouncer.
41:11
Speaker 2: And it's like, what's the story there? What hard times
41:14
Speaker 2: did he fall on? Why does he have no money left?
41:17
Speaker 2: You know? And so it's the story now, I don't
41:21
Speaker 2: I didn't research where this story came from. Is it
41:25
Speaker 2: to your knowledge? Is it like inspired by something or
41:28
Speaker 2: did it literally just come from from him?
41:31
Speaker 3: It was characters were were developed by Uma Thurman and
41:36
Speaker 3: Quentin Tarantino and they and they kind of came up
41:40
Speaker 3: with that idea. Well, I think like Thurmann came up
41:42
Speaker 3: with the image of a bloodied bride on the floor
41:46
Speaker 3: of the church and her you know, ex lover coming
41:49
Speaker 3: to shoot her. And then from that they kind of
41:51
Speaker 3: riffed off of the Fox Force five idea and that's
41:55
Speaker 3: what evolved into the Deadly Viper Assassination Squad. And then
42:00
Speaker 3: you know, Quentin Tarantino just kind of ran with that
42:03
Speaker 3: concept and developed kill Bill.
42:05
Speaker 2: Okay, now that that makes sense, and it kind of
42:07
Speaker 2: gives me like James Cameron vibes, like when he had
42:11
Speaker 2: that dream about a metal skeleton kind of machine coming
42:14
Speaker 2: through fire and that just like sparked his imagination. And
42:19
Speaker 2: that also makes sense because Yea, at the very end
42:20
Speaker 2: it said based on characters created by you and T.
42:24
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I'm pretty sure I know who you
42:26
Speaker 2: and T are, but Q and you makes Q and
42:29
Speaker 2: you that's what I met. Yeah, no, T, you would be Tarantino.
42:32
Speaker 2: But yeah, Quentin. But yeah, So all of that to say, John,
42:38
Speaker 2: tell me you're thought.
42:39
Speaker 4: No, no, no, I was just going to say, in
42:41
Speaker 4: terms of that, I think there needs to be at
42:44
Speaker 4: least a nod to the fact that while this is
42:47
Speaker 4: this is going on, while this is coming together, it's
42:50
Speaker 4: such a long time between movies for Tarantino that I
42:54
Speaker 4: think that something that gets lost in the mix is
42:57
Speaker 4: the fact that Uma Thurman was like an active contributor,
43:02
Speaker 4: collaborator with Tarantino. Like it's it's almost in the sense
43:06
Speaker 4: of the same way that Roger Avery gets forgetting about
43:09
Speaker 4: with pulp fiction, whereas like it's a QT movie and
43:12
Speaker 4: it's like, well, let's let's give a nod to the
43:16
Speaker 4: fact that there was another great creative brain at work
43:19
Speaker 4: here and he molded it and he put it together.
43:22
Speaker 4: Think I think Uma Thurman does not get enough credit
43:25
Speaker 4: for being the inspiration without her at all. And and
43:29
Speaker 4: it is absolutely stunning to me that she got nominations
43:35
Speaker 4: for a lot of awards Golden Globe, Empire Awards, Saturn Awards.
43:40
Speaker 4: But but Oscar's just paid these movies no mind, Like
43:44
Speaker 4: it's it's bizarre. I don't understand. And there's a conspiracy
43:49
Speaker 4: theory mindset that I have as to why it didn't
43:52
Speaker 4: get those nominations, but you know who knows, that's all speculative.
43:57
Speaker 3: This was this was in two thousand and three, two
43:58
Speaker 3: thousand and four, and this was peak time for snobby oscars.
44:03
Speaker 3: This is absolutely the.
44:05
Speaker 2: Ring going on, you have Harry Potter going on, you
44:08
Speaker 2: have big tent poles.
44:09
Speaker 4: I think think that though in a sense that there's
44:12
Speaker 4: a sense of one the worm turning a little bit
44:16
Speaker 4: on Tarantino here. I think that the new kid hasn't
44:19
Speaker 4: gotten enough of a hard time, like he's had a
44:21
Speaker 4: little too much success. And I think that there is
44:23
Speaker 4: an undercurrent there that happens in Hollywood where it's like, hey, hey,
44:27
Speaker 4: he's getting a little big for his bridges, and so
44:29
Speaker 4: they kind of cool on the new talent sometimes. Anyway,
44:33
Speaker 4: any other speculative stuff, I'll just say that I don't
44:35
Speaker 4: think that certain parties campaigned as hard for Kill Bill
44:39
Speaker 4: to win as they campaigned for Tarantino's earlier movies.
44:43
Speaker 3: And since we're talking about Tarantino and Thurman's relationship, one
44:47
Speaker 3: thing that cannot go unmentioned is is the car crash.
44:52
Speaker 3: When she's driving that little roadster and it's on a
44:55
Speaker 3: dirt road, and she straight up said, I don't want
44:59
Speaker 3: to do this, like this is a dirt road, this
45:01
Speaker 3: is a really you know, this is a small car.
45:04
Speaker 3: You know, like I don't want anything to happen. And
45:06
Speaker 3: I think the start coordinator was not in on set
45:09
Speaker 3: that day because it wasn't categorized as a stunt, and
45:12
Speaker 3: Tarantino convinced her to do it against her not wanting to,
45:16
Speaker 3: and there was a turn in the road she lost
45:18
Speaker 3: control of the car and she hit a tree, got
45:21
Speaker 3: a concussion and hurt her knees, and it damaged the
45:24
Speaker 3: relationship for years, for a very long time. And then
45:28
Speaker 3: in twenty eighteen, Thurman, like Tarantino, gives Thurman the footage
45:34
Speaker 3: because like he couldn't give it right away because Weinstein. Yeah,
45:38
Speaker 3: because Weinstein was like saying, like, Okay, I'll give it
45:41
Speaker 3: to you if you sign away all your rights, and
45:44
Speaker 3: Thurman said no, of course, and when she was coming
45:46
Speaker 3: out against Weinstein in twenty eighteen, she wanted to utilize
45:50
Speaker 3: that footage as well. And since then Tarantino and Thurman
45:54
Speaker 3: have made amends and say that they're close again, which
45:57
Speaker 3: is nice to hear.
45:58
Speaker 4: I'm very glad to hear that, and I know that
46:01
Speaker 4: to address any idea that anything was done purposely with
46:04
Speaker 4: the car, Tarantino's explanation was that they had run the
46:08
Speaker 4: car and shot you know, stand in stuff, and it worked,
46:12
Speaker 4: and it worked, and it worked, but then they lost
46:14
Speaker 4: the light, so they changed the direction the car was
46:16
Speaker 4: going in, which is why it then lost control. Was
46:20
Speaker 4: they ran the car in a different direction than the
46:22
Speaker 4: one they had been practicing in.
46:24
Speaker 2: Hadn't been touching that was.
46:26
Speaker 4: That was the explanation that he had at a baseline.
46:29
Speaker 4: That's negligence on the part of the director, no question.
46:32
Speaker 4: That is negligence on the part of the director. And
46:34
Speaker 4: it will always be one of those things where I
46:37
Speaker 4: get what I get that old school thinking of no,
46:40
Speaker 4: I want my actor in the shot. I think it's
46:43
Speaker 4: so dumb. It's such a vestige of that old Hollywood
46:47
Speaker 4: thinking where you know that you know, I mean Gosha,
46:51
Speaker 4: even if you go back to Raiders of the Lost
46:53
Speaker 4: Arc where apparently I think that was the one where
46:56
Speaker 4: Ford like got his like back injury that haunted him
46:59
Speaker 4: for years because he was like, no, Steve and I
47:01
Speaker 4: want to do the stunt, and it's like, you know,
47:03
Speaker 4: oh yeah, we're buddies, go ahead and do the stunt,
47:05
Speaker 4: and it's like, nah. The responsible director thing to do
47:08
Speaker 4: is to say, you know, I don't think I'm gonna
47:11
Speaker 4: let you do that stunt, because that's actually what shut
47:12
Speaker 4: down filming on Empire strikes back for some time. Was
47:15
Speaker 4: Irvin Kershner insisted on Mark Hamill being the one to
47:18
Speaker 4: jump away in the shot when the walker steps on
47:22
Speaker 4: the snow speeder and it like screwed up his thumb
47:25
Speaker 4: and they had to like rearrange the shooting schedule so that,
47:28
Speaker 4: you know, while Hamill was healing and stuff like that,
47:31
Speaker 4: and it was like hitting about that one. Yeah, it
47:33
Speaker 4: was in one of the.
47:34
Speaker 2: General rule of thumb or the noun intended. Let the
47:36
Speaker 2: stunt people do their stunt job.
47:39
Speaker 4: Yeah, Tom Cruise, come on, you're killing it industry.
47:42
Speaker 2: Well there's always an outlier.
47:44
Speaker 4: Oh, I see, mister Cruz always gets an outlier.
47:47
Speaker 2: Gotcha?
47:47
Speaker 4: Gotcha?
47:48
Speaker 2: Well he's like, what the executive producer of all of that.
47:51
Speaker 4: So anyway, Yeah, that's true all.
47:54
Speaker 2: That to say. Yeah, for my final thoughts this movie,
47:58
Speaker 2: it means the shooting, the story, the so much show,
48:02
Speaker 2: a lot of tell but still a lot of showing. Really,
48:05
Speaker 2: that's that establishing this character, amazing scenes of dialogue, amazing dialogue,
48:12
Speaker 2: amazing pieces of tension, and pretty much sticking the landing.
48:17
Speaker 2: I remember going into part two being like, how is
48:20
Speaker 2: this story going to end? There's so much build up,
48:24
Speaker 2: like we don't even see Bill until the second half.
48:27
Speaker 2: Like that's a choice, like he's the mysterious figure. And
48:31
Speaker 2: I think bringing it full circle with the you know,
48:34
Speaker 2: the Chekhov's gun of the five fingered you know, exploding
48:38
Speaker 2: heart technique, which I'd almost forgotten about, you know when
48:42
Speaker 2: I watched it for the first time. It's like that
48:44
Speaker 2: because no fight would have been satisfying in that final
48:49
Speaker 2: fight between her and if it had been with swords,
48:51
Speaker 2: like there was enough that it like she resheathed the
48:54
Speaker 2: sword and the other scabbard like that was really cool
48:57
Speaker 2: and then it was over. But I think if they
48:59
Speaker 2: had actually gone out to the sand in the moonlight,
49:01
Speaker 2: I don't know what you could do to make it satisfying.
49:04
Speaker 2: So I I personally enjoyed that that choice for the ending.
49:09
Speaker 3: So yeah, so originally that's what they were going to
49:11
Speaker 3: actually do, was they were film on the beach in
49:14
Speaker 3: the moonlight is going to be.
49:16
Speaker 4: There, yeah, right, Tarantino was going to play.
49:19
Speaker 3: The moon and Weinstein said it was like, no, no,
49:22
Speaker 3: this is running on way too long. You're like, you're
49:25
Speaker 3: you're getting too indulgent, and so you got to cut
49:27
Speaker 3: it back. And Tarantino came up with that idea and
49:29
Speaker 3: it worked.
49:30
Speaker 2: It has a deadpool, doesn't have bullets in his gun,
49:34
Speaker 2: vibe of like plot change. But but yeah, so I'm
49:38
Speaker 2: you know, nah, there's may be a dash of nostalgia,
49:41
Speaker 2: But having been a while since I visited this movie,
49:43
Speaker 2: I'm giving it a five. I think this is a
49:46
Speaker 2: great movie. Is it the best that Tarantine has ever done? Well,
49:49
Speaker 2: we'll see. We still got a couple more to go
49:51
Speaker 2: through in his roster. But I really enjoy Kill Bill.
49:55
Speaker 2: It's was really fun to rewatch, you know. The the
49:59
Speaker 2: changes in the Bloody Affair were enjoyable, and it was
50:03
Speaker 2: just a great story. I think, really really well told.
50:06
Speaker 2: And it kind of makes me wonder if it had
50:08
Speaker 2: been the whole Bloody Affair, or if the world been
50:10
Speaker 2: ready for longer movies like it kind of is nowadays,
50:13
Speaker 2: Like we kind of tolerate four hour movies all the time,
50:17
Speaker 2: but occasionally if it might have done a little bit
50:19
Speaker 2: better in the award circuit telling a complete story then
50:23
Speaker 2: a half. So that is my raking. John, We're going
50:26
Speaker 2: to go to you for your final thoughts on Kill Bill.
50:30
Speaker 4: Now I feel obligated to go back and watch part
50:33
Speaker 4: one and part two, Volume one and Volume two independently
50:36
Speaker 4: again just to give myself a fair shake and everything.
50:41
Speaker 4: As many problems as I had with Volume one. When
50:44
Speaker 4: it was released, I gave it like a three and
50:47
Speaker 4: a half or a four, right, I think it was
50:49
Speaker 4: like a four, and then it got knocked down an
50:51
Speaker 4: extra half star because I was so angry walking out
50:53
Speaker 4: of the theater after that ending. And then two was
50:57
Speaker 4: like a solid four for me. I was like, okay, yeah,
50:59
Speaker 4: I really dig this. Watching the whole bloody affair, it's
51:03
Speaker 4: a five. Even though even though and we all say this,
51:06
Speaker 4: five doesn't mean it's a perfect movie necessarily, but this
51:09
Speaker 4: is a tremendously well executed movie with far more greatness
51:15
Speaker 4: than how much I might dislike the the O ren
51:18
Speaker 4: Eeshi origin story. How long it goes like okay, yeah,
51:22
Speaker 4: this is something we didn't even talk about. This is
51:24
Speaker 4: Tarantino gets original music by Riza here, and it's like
51:28
Speaker 4: that that's actually a thing. And you know, hey, I
51:31
Speaker 4: don't care if I don't you know what, there is
51:33
Speaker 4: a little bit.
51:34
Speaker 2: It's a little.
51:35
Speaker 3: Bit original music.
51:37
Speaker 4: Oh you listen, I will not stand for this. There's
51:40
Speaker 4: more than there was before. Okay, so it's he's stretching,
51:44
Speaker 4: he's he's growth. I will, I promise you I will
51:47
Speaker 4: come doing there anyway anyway. So yeah, it's a five
51:50
Speaker 4: for the whole bloody affair.
51:51
Speaker 2: Right, Tristan, any final thoughts?
51:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, for me, it was kind of it's kind of
51:56
Speaker 3: the same things as John, Like watching volume four, Volume four,
52:02
Speaker 3: Volume one, that's how powerful it is. It skips Volume
52:06
Speaker 3: three all together. No watching volume one. It's kind of
52:08
Speaker 3: like I originally wanted to give it. I originally give
52:10
Speaker 3: it a four because of Orinihi's stuff and a few
52:13
Speaker 3: other things where I'm just like, ah, you know, like
52:15
Speaker 3: this is a great movie, but this is, this is,
52:19
Speaker 3: this is this part is horrible, or this I don't
52:21
Speaker 3: really like. But then just watching it recently again, I
52:23
Speaker 3: bumped it up to a four and a half because
52:25
Speaker 3: I'm like, you know what, even though I don't like that,
52:27
Speaker 3: it's still so much makes up for it. And Volume
52:30
Speaker 3: two is five stars, hands down, and so putting it together,
52:35
Speaker 3: I'm same as John. It's five stars, five stars across
52:38
Speaker 3: the board. Is it perfect? No, of course not. Is
52:40
Speaker 3: there things I would change, Yes I would, but it
52:43
Speaker 3: is a five star enjoyment film. I believe that this
52:45
Speaker 3: is Michael Madsen's best performance as Bud.
52:49
Speaker 4: It's definitely in the conversation. For Madson, I agree.
52:52
Speaker 3: But like this, I'm sure that this is just my
52:54
Speaker 3: personal preference. I'm sure that there are people who are
52:57
Speaker 3: can argue different things. But for me, Mad's is Bud.
53:01
Speaker 3: I think he just this is his moment to shine.
53:04
Speaker 3: It's my favorite carrieding role. Umer Thurman has a fantastic
53:10
Speaker 3: filmography and this.
53:11
Speaker 5: Is right at the topple list.
53:14
Speaker 4: Yes it is.
53:14
Speaker 3: And this there, there's so many amazing performances and moments,
53:19
Speaker 3: and this is kill Bill. The whole Bloody Affair is
53:23
Speaker 3: such a joy. It's a gem. We're going to be
53:25
Speaker 3: talking about it forever.
53:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think in rewatching it, it took me right back,
53:30
Speaker 2: took me right back to early thousands and like that excitement.
53:34
Speaker 2: I mean, if anything, the two part, I mean it
53:37
Speaker 2: almost I know that's not why it was split, but
53:39
Speaker 2: it almost felt like this strategic marketing move of like
53:43
Speaker 2: hook him with the first one, get them and see
53:45
Speaker 2: the second. Because it was a thirty million dollar budget,
53:48
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure they shot it all at the same time,
53:51
Speaker 2: and so thirty million you get one hundred and eighty
53:54
Speaker 2: one in the first half, and one hundred and fifty
53:56
Speaker 2: two for a combined three hundred and thirty three million
54:00
Speaker 2: in the early odds. That's like a chunk of money.
54:03
Speaker 2: So it did very very well.
54:05
Speaker 4: It did very very well. And the thing is, I
54:08
Speaker 4: know I keep promising the audience that my love affair
54:11
Speaker 4: with Tarantino as a director, it's not a perfect relationship.
54:15
Speaker 4: I promise you. Down the line, we'll have less than
54:18
Speaker 4: five coming at you. I promise you. It's on the way.
54:21
Speaker 4: It's on the way.
54:22
Speaker 2: Maybe all right, Well, we're actually going to do a
54:25
Speaker 2: different combination of Tarantino next week. So I haven't seen
54:29
Speaker 2: either of these movies. But apparently death Proof is not
54:32
Speaker 2: quite conversational for an hour, so at least.
54:36
Speaker 4: Not for two thirds of this grouping, not for saying people,
54:40
Speaker 4: I mean, yes, right, what Tristan said?
54:42
Speaker 2: All right, Well, so we're going to be combining death
54:44
Speaker 2: Proof from two thousand and seven with Inglorious Bastards from
54:48
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine next week on House Lights.
54:52
Speaker 1: Join the Revolution, Join the net Party,