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228. What Happens Years After Gender Transitioning? · Radically Genuine

• Dr. McFillin (00:03.32) Welcome to the radically genuine podcast. I am Dr. Roger McFillin. There is a generation of young women walking around with scarred chests, deepened voices and sterilized bodies who were told this would save their lives. They were lied to. They are the wounded of a cultural war. They did not start and could not understand. Most of them were girls, not everyone, but many were girls. They were already struggling. before any of this began, their own adolescent struggles, depression, identity issues, some on the autism spectrum, some in the aftermath of trauma. The ordinary pain of being a teenage girl in a culture that trains girls to hate their bodies the moment they can read a screen. They went looking for relief. They were handed hormones. They were handed surgery. They were handed a story about who they were. Today they are telling us the story was false. For most of psychiatric history, gender dysphoria was rare. Carefully studied, almost always presenting in early childhood, overwhelmingly in boys. The pattern shattered around 2012. Referrals to the UK's National Youth Gender Service went from under 100 a year to 5,000. The sex ratio flipped. Teenage girls with no childhood history began declaring themselves boys in clusters of three, five, 10 at a time inside the same friend groups in the same month after the same TikTok. Lisa Littman called it what it plainly was rapid onset gender dysphoria. In her 2018 study, over 80 % of the girls had shown no signs of gender distress in childhood. More than 60 % already had a mental health diagnosis before any new identity appeared. More than a third came from friend groups where the majority of the girls suddenly identified as trans transgender in the same window. Brown University threw her under the bus. Dr. McFillin (02:12.696) PLOS one forced a republication. The machine went to work on her career. She was right. This was a social contagion. It behaved like every prior adolescent female social contagion in the record. Anorexia in the 80s, cutting in the 90s, dissociative identity disorder, the Tourette's ticks that spread through TikTok during the lockdowns, distressed adolescent girls. They cluster, they borrow each other's symptoms and they always have. What was different this time is that the adults did not intervene. The adults affirmed, the adults prescribed, the adults cut surgery, permanent surgery. Why did it happen? Is it just because it was profitable? Because the institutions were captured? Because psychiatry had already spent 40 years pathologizing? ordinary human suffering and selling drugs for it. And this was simply the next product line because an activist movement made disagreement professionally fatal because the American medical establishment chose against the Europeans who actually studied the data to declare the science settled and the children ready. The Europeans then broke ranks, Finland in 2020, Sweden in 2022. The UK's CAS review in 2024, four-year independent investigation that found the evidence base for youth transition to be, in its own words, remarkably weak. NHS England has not written a new puberty blocker prescription for gender distress in over a year. The Tavistock successor clinics dropped from roughly 280 referrals a month to between 20 and 30. That's not good for business. 27 American states have passed restrictions on these interventions for minors. The Supreme Court upheld Tennessee's ban in Scrametti last June, 6-3. So the tide is turning, but the wreckage is already here and the machine is still running in many blue states, in captured children's hospitals, and in the bloodstream of activists who cannot yet face what they helped do. How many detransistors are there? Dr. McFillin (04:37.076) Honestly, no one knows. The field refused to track its own failures, as it often does. Published rates range from under 1 % to over 30, depending on who's counting and what they are willing to count. The U.S. Transgender Survey itself, compiled by activist researchers, found that 13 % of respondents who pursued medical transition had de-transitioned, one in eight. Long-term studies suggest the median time to surgical regret is close to a decade. Most of these young women have not yet reached that window. We are standing at the front edge of it. And the D-transitioners are the witnesses. They are the ones who walked through the lie, came out the other side, carrying the permanent mark of it on their bodies. And almost every institution that helped put them through it is still refusing to hear them. My guest today has been hearing them. She's been sitting with them. She saw this coming before most of us did. Why? Because she already watched her own brother walk through the same lie half a century ago, before it had a name, before it was a movement, before it was a protected class. He did not come out the other side. She is a licensed professional counselor in Tennessee, 15 years of experience, walking adolescents and adults through the wreckage of hard lives. She left the system in 2020. worn down from watching root causes ignored and medicated away. The final straw was the ROGD cohort and the arrival of so-called gender affirming care. She knew it was a lie. Her brother had undergone what they called sex reassignment surgery in 1974. It did not help him. It gave him a lifetime of medical dependence, disability, and early death, which unfortunately is the same path. of people who choose psychiatry. You attach to their labels, their limitations, and you enter into a system of drugs and failed treatments, and you are walking down the same path of disability and early death. She does not believe in DSM labels or the drugs that follow them. My guess is because two things are existing for her. I'm sure one, she had the intuition that this is wrong. Dr. McFillin (06:58.604) and trusted that and probably followed it up with searching in the evidence to best inform people. So she, like myself, does not treat human emotional responses to life as disorders or medical conditions. She treats them as a path through which we become who we are meant to be. Jennifer Miller, I want to welcome you to the radically genuine podcast. Jennifer Miller (07:23.726) Thank you so much for having me. Dr. McFillin (07:25.932) I know that was a little bit of an extended opening more than I usually do, but I think this topic deserves it. I don't think I can personally do it justice to be honest with you because I do not have that same experience that you do. But your life seemed to have prepared you for the kind of work that you're currently doing. I'm interested to know a little bit about your story and your brother's story. Jennifer Miller (07:52.922) Okay, yes, of course. Well, my brother was born in 1949. He was eight years older than me. So I don't have a lot of, of course, I wasn't there for his early childhood. I do have pictures, however, and I did see pictures of him with jewelry and pocketbooks and hats and such as that. I don't know why exactly, and I don't know what that had to contribute to this picture. but he was a very accomplished in school student. He was a great student. He graduated from Bluff City High School in Bluff City, Tennessee. So very rural area. And he had a scholarship to Peabody College for Teachers, which is part of Vanderbilt now. It was in Nashville, a very elite school. So mom and dad sent him off in 67 when he graduated. The next summer, he had always been a little pudgy, a little awkward. I wonder now if maybe there was some spec, know, neurodiversity going on. I don't know. But he came back and he looked so different. He was thin and he had blonde hair and he was very smartly dressed and he was a gay man at that point, I think. And I think that that was a real problem. internally for him and also because of my father's reaction. My father was very much a man's man. He was a veteran of World War II. He had lived through the Depression. He was a very solid man and he, I think he would have accepted it eventually, I really do, but he didn't get the chance. But he reacted badly. And so my brother started down this road. of the trans, it was transsexual surgery, they called it back then, sex reassignment surgery. So, I have to kind look at my notes, because the years get confusing. Jennifer Miller (10:01.082) In 1969, I had talked to him about this at one point and I asked him, therapy, did you ever have therapy? And he said, yes, the therapist told me to go be who I was, go somewhere where I could be who I really am, my authentic self. So even then, you were hearing this authentic self and go away from your family and do this thing because they don't care about you. We care about you, but they don't care about you. So he did. He moved to Atlanta. the gatekeeping is what they call it. But back then it was a much longer process. He had to live as a woman for a couple of years, he had to be on estrogen. then, so he did all that in Atlanta and then ultimately ended up in Trinidad, Colorado. I don't know if that means anything to you. Have you heard of Trinidad, Colorado? Dr. McFillin (10:53.528) No, I haven't. Jennifer Miller (10:54.485) Okay, so back in the 70s and 80s, if someone said I'm going to Trinidad, that was code for I'm going to see a physician named Stanley Byber and he was doing these surgeries in Trinidad, Colorado. The man was just a general surgeon. He didn't have any real training here, but he somehow self-taught. He did it himself. And there's a really good book called Going to Trinidad that follows a few lives through that. So my brother had the vaginoplasty, which is a very, it's just horrible. the if you ever look at what it actually is. I did not know what what was going on. I was still young. He did it when I was 17 and I was getting you know starting on my own life. I didn't want it away from all of that to be honest. It had really it had wrecked my high school life because he was such a good student and such an accomplished student and I followed behind him five years later four or five years later and everyone wanted to know where's your brother what's your brother doing well I was my parents told me not to tell them, not to tell anyone. They were ashamed, I guess. Or they didn't know what to do. It was a bizarre thing. It was a bizarre thing in the 70s. So I didn't tell anybody. I had a couple of friends that I confided in. But that set my life on about a four or five year really not good. route either because I guess I identified as a hippie if you will in the 70s and so my way of dealing with it was weed and partying with my friends and just ignoring it you know. Jennifer Miller (12:41.121) or acting like it wasn't happening. But he ultimately had the surgery. And it's interesting, you mentioned a decade later is when regret starts. He never voiced regret, but I know that eight years later, eight years after that surgery, he had an emergency colon surgery. He almost died. And I have no doubt that that was somehow related to what was happening. After that, a few years later, he never held a job really other than, and that's really sad to me, because he had a really bright future. But he was a server, he took care of elderly women, which I never really thought about until recently, and now it kind of makes my stomach jump a little bit because, I don't know. Anyway, there's a lot of conversation amongst folks on X about intimate care and of elderly females and how that should not be, it should be a woman. But anyway, he did that. So he was working in a, he came back to Knoxville, Tennessee. I should have, I'm sorry, jumping back there. He moved to Knoxville, which is about an hour and a half from where we live, or where I live. So he was working in a restaurant and he took a fall somehow. And it was such a bad break to his leg that it required surgery and he ended up on a cane and went, he went on disability around 1983 and remained on disability until death in 2017. 2017, yeah. So, and there was just so many health issues. He was on, I made a list of the meds that I could remember that he was on. yeah. Paxil Linesta Ativan. He was on Lyrica. He was on 10 milligram Lord Tabs, seven a day. And then, and all of that plus like normal chronic illness, Western medicine, statins and build pressure medicine and all of those things. So he was on just a shoe box full of drugs for his whole life. Lived in government housing up until the last... Jennifer Miller (14:52.088) This is a whole other story, but he was taking care of this this lady in Knoxville who had cancer. She passed away. Her husband at the time was 74. Let's see my brother would have been I don't know it was in 2003 so but the man was 74 and he had ALS. I he was dying, but he was very wealthy and somehow He married, mean, he was still living as a woman. He lived as a woman his whole life. He never went back from that. But basically tricked this poor sick man into marrying and proceeded to spend every penny that he had. He had property, he had two or three properties in Knoxville. He had worked at Oak Ridge and the nuclear plant. He had a huge, just had a lot of money and it was all gone by the time my brother died in 2017. So. Dr. McFillin (15:47.119) Well, let me intervene there. You brought that up for a reason. Why did you say that? Jennifer Miller (15:48.607) Sure. Jennifer Miller (15:52.904) about Charlie, the man, because I just felt like it was a very cruel thing to do to an elderly man. Dr. McFillin (16:01.136) Are you relating that somehow back to, you know, who your brother became or some of the reasons why, or the after effects of attempting to try to change who you are? Jennifer Miller (16:11.702) Yeah, sure. Sure, yeah. because he was very dependent on my parents up until this point. And my father died in 2006 at the age of 86. So my parents were elderly. weren't able to help very much. And this was a route into not only having money, but also being accepted into this. It was a social thing too in Knoxville. This couple had been active socially. when my, it's hard for me to say my brother, but it was my brother married Charlie. He immediately was in all those things and as a woman and accepted and looked up to and all of those, he was very much a narcissist. I think all of these people that go this route aren't narcissistic. Dr. McFillin (17:07.856) Well, Jennifer, let's just state some of the lies that exist, right? One of them around gender dysphoria is that if you change your body, if you change your presentation, the distress will be alleviated. Would you agree that that is a lie? Jennifer Miller (17:27.832) that's an absolute lie. I think in many cases with the detransitioners have talked about it gets worse actually when you start to make medical changes. It doesn't help. Dr. McFillin (17:39.587) And my goodness, the hubris that would exist in this culture in the medical community that would suggest that we will interfere with nature in such an experimental way. And then the after effects of doing that will be relief and joy and happiness. How are, how are the American people sold such an idea? Like, tell me how that is believable. Jennifer Miller (17:58.262) Mm-hmm. Jennifer Miller (18:05.175) Well, I don't think it's, it's not believable. I think that there's many different tentacles to this. Alfred Kinsey, familiar with Alfred Kinsey in the 50s, that all of his research that was done in nefarious ways, that set a stage to change, that's what a lot of legal things are based on over time. Legal things change, censorship changed, what was acceptable changed in the eyes of the law. So there's that piece of it. There's also the Marxism, the gender, the queering, if you will, of the school. systems. It's very deep in the universities. That's why all the therapists that are coming out now, they have been marinating in this stuff and they believe it. I guess that's why, well my brother as well, but also I was 50 years old when I went back and got my master's degree. So it just, you know, and I raised three children. I have three sons. So I knew that it could not possibly be. But I think it's that. I think it's in 2014 Dr. McFillin (18:53.295) Yeah. Jennifer Miller (19:13.338) or when when marriage equality passed, all of that money that had been holding up that movement suddenly didn't have a place. And so all of those those funders went over to the transgender issue and it's just been driven so deeply in through corporate and academic and medical and psychiatric. It's so deep that I think there's just been a couple of decades of people that have grown up being told that this is the truth. Dr. McFillin (19:45.007) Yeah, I think I'm always asking why, like what, what is the goal? Obviously it's psychological operation. That's clear because it infiltrated so many areas of American institutions. When you talk about corporate America, when you talk about the media, when you talk about politicians and of course, academia, the medical community, it really spanned a number of institutions and none of that happens organically. It just does not. Jennifer Miller (20:09.335) Sure. No, it doesn't. Dr. McFillin (20:13.016) It's purposeful and it's intentional. So what is the intent? Jennifer Miller (20:19.563) The intent is to completely break down heteronormativity, the traditional family, the way that we believe about right and wrong. My personal belief is that there is not a human that is intelligent enough or devious enough to put this into place. I think that there's been a lot of groundwork laid over the years and I think it's just the evil and the darkness in the world that is where it comes from ultimately. Dr. McFillin (20:51.664) I've been writing more about this and speaking out about the transhumanist movement, the anti-life agenda. Of course, the most obvious thing is there's a spiritual darkness to it, anything that anti-life is, because anti-life is anti-God. And it's an interesting overlap with the anti-life transhumanist movement and transgenderism as an idea, because it is saying that we can play God, that we can intervene with nature, including Jennifer Miller (20:55.254) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (21:20.9) the suspension of death, right? The eternal life of the human being. And in order for that to happen, it is upgrades through technology, including technological upgrades through the application of like merging AI with human beings, the brain. And it sounds like it's like some sci-fi movie or something, or you actually sound, it sounds like I'm with some conspiracy nut just by bringing it up. Jennifer Miller (21:23.051) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jennifer Miller (21:40.203) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (21:50.066) But it's written, right? It's clearly written in documents from people who have very powerful influence across the world and on major institutions. And when you consider the anti-life agenda, they are in destroying life. And they can do that with synthetic chemicals, pharmaceuticals, synthetic hormones, and then eventually through other forms of technology. How can that not be a spiritual war? Jennifer Miller (21:51.241) Mm-hmm. Yep. Jennifer Miller (21:58.497) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (22:19.793) We would have to really be blind to it, but it shows the power of deception and us as human beings what we are vulnerable to because yes, you and I have witnessed it in our fields. have observed clinicians well-meaning, caring people who bought so much into the transgender ideology that it would be heresy to have this conversation, that it would be, it's a civil rights issue. And we would be in some ways denying someone their fundamental rights and liberty. So you don't intervene in such, you just accept it as true. And the gender affirming care as a model then became the norm. It became ethical protocol and then doing anything else you would be violating your ethical code as a treating psychologist or counselor. I want to get your sense on, you You know that how did well-meaning people get so deceived? Jennifer Miller (23:25.025) Well, you know, the enemy of our world is a liar. It has been a liar. Deceives folks. Again, I think it's because I know that I was training with a lot of younger people, obviously, and they were just very easily influenced by all of these things. They believe it because they were taught it in school and they hear it. in the media, that's because of all the, it's everywhere. It's everywhere. don't hear, until now, until the last maybe year, you haven't heard the opposite side, really. So I think that is what has done it for the most part. And then of course children, not only the professionals that come through universities, but our school systems. Now Tennessee is, I'm in a red, red state, the reddest part of a red state probably. And even here, the social transition was going on, the pronouns, the names, all of that. Some school counselors were referring for testosterone when kids, so it was even happening here because we do all have we have a university here so there's a lot of there's a lot of folks coming and going but it's just been everywhere it's not as bad here as it is other places but we're teaching kindergartners that they can be a boy or a girl that can make up their mind and they grow up believing that so it is child abuse it absolutely is I think it's sexual abuse honestly yeah Dr. McFillin (24:48.721) How's that in a child abuse when you think about it? Yeah. Dr. McFillin (24:54.745) It is. I mean, you're actually taking a group of children who are not developmentally able to understand the concepts of which we are talking about, right? So when we talk about boy or a girl, a male or a female, those are biological realities, right? There is no distinction, right? You are biologically created. A male, can never become a female. A male can never carry life. It can never become pregnant and Jennifer Miller (25:01.345) Yeah. Dr. McFillin (25:25.271) And in any way, that can never happen. And so we went through a period of time and it sounds so ridiculous that that statement alone would have been viewed in terms of like somehow being intellectually and morally like judgmental and limiting where you can confuse people to the extent where you're afraid to say truth, where you're afraid to align with objective reality. Jennifer Miller (25:28.605) No, it can't happen. Jennifer Miller (25:43.863) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (25:55.309) And I'm always interested in the psychological and emotional aspects of this, right? Because you saw it like, no, a man can never become pregnant and have a child. But we went through a period of time where that couldn't be defined. And to me, Jennifer Miller (26:05.024) Mm-hmm. Jennifer Miller (26:10.421) We have a Supreme Court Justice that doesn't know what a woman is, according to her, right? She's not a biologist, so yeah. Dr. McFillin (26:15.526) that's to that level of insanity, right? That we have the propensity or the vulnerability to become that insane. This is a history textbook, right? This is something you need to teach people to let them know how vulnerable we all are to influence and insanity because the biggest fear for people is being ostracized. Jennifer Miller (26:35.702) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (26:42.65) and outcast from a group. It's like biologically ingrained within us a fear to ever be pushed outside of the group. It's how we survived as human beings in clans, in tribes, right? So you just know you don't act outside the group. So once the group starts saying the same thing over and over again, to be outside of the group is risk that rejection. And this is why you have human atrocities. This is why you have good people doing horrible things. because they're so scared to act outside of the group. And now this takes us into the direct psychology of the mental health world, the mental health profession, is many people who choose to go down this route actually care about their fellow human beings, right? So they're more easily influenced when you can try to condition them to believe that you are hurting somebody, right? You can hurt somebody with your words. You can hurt someone with their ideas. If someone feels distress, you're the cause. Violence is no longer physical. Violence can be done with words. And if someone is in emotional distress, it is your responsibility to ease their distress by any means necessary. And somehow that is mental health. This is a conditioning process that has gone on for decades and it what serves the pharmaceutical industry. Because when you frame emotional distress in this way, you say, well, mental health treatment is eliminating a emotional distress by any means necessary, even if that's the blunting of emotions, right? That's what happens when you make these categories and symptoms, right? If you have strep throat and your throat hurts and you have a fever, when you no longer have a fever and your throat no longer hurts and your throat is no longer swollen or infected, well, then you no longer have the disease. You make this stuff mental illness when you have the decrease of these symptoms and you no longer have the condition and your life is better. And that is such a deception. about the human condition and our emotional health and what emotions are for is this is what happens when you medicalize all aspects of the human experience. And this fits right into their model for deception and to create harm. And we become vulnerable to it because of our own desires to be accepted and to want to do the best thing for our fellow human beings. Jennifer Miller (29:00.744) Agreed, 100%. We do do that. I don't think there's anyone that goes into this field that comes into it with a, or I would hope doesn't come into it with a compassionate viewpoint with wanting to help folks. And then you also, you mentioned the pharmaceutical drugs. don't know what, I think you posted on X something about it the other day, but I've said it for a while, that all of these SSRIs and all these things that we're throwing children on, of course they're asexual, they don't have any feeling. Of course they're that. And a lot of these kids are also on the spectrum, they are. That's a very black and white thinking. They don't have the ability to understand social cues interact as their peers do and so this is like a way for them, this fixes it. know, it's just a very, that they can grab onto that and it'll fix all these things. There's so many different ways that it's harmful, the Disney cartoons now, all the media, all the shows, you can't watch a show anymore without. trans person showing up a lot of times, you know. So it's just it's being shoved down our throats. I've heard a lot of folks too on X, it's over we won. No, we didn't win. It's not over and it won't be over for a long time. It won't be over till we can weed it out of the universities and the school systems. Dr. McFillin (30:25.746) Well, there's been a war waged against parents, right? Ultimately parents have to be the protector, the gatekeeper here. It's their children, right? They have to be able to protect their children from the brainwashing, this undue influence, medical tyranny. What are you seeing with parents who then concede to these ideas like they're real? Jennifer Miller (30:28.17) Yes. Jennifer Miller (30:32.084) Yes. Jennifer Miller (30:47.381) I think it goes one of two ways. they realize when their children come out of it and realize they realized they were wrong and they were fooled. The doctors are very this whole would you rather have a live son or a dead daughter thing. That is said to people and that scares parents and you know we also live in a world now I think over the last 20 to 30 maybe even 40 years Everybody like authority people people do what authority tells them to do and if it has a white coat on that's even it's a bigger authority right and so There's that those people that the parents also are regretful, but then you have other parents and these would not be of the D Transitioners I'm sure but of like jazz Jennings for instance if you're familiar with that show did you okay Jazz Jennings back in the early 2000s there was a reality show called I am Jazz I think it was and it the little the little boy told his mama he was a girl when he was three or four years old so when he went you know puberty blockers hormones surgery the whole thing it was on it was like reality tv went through the whole thing so there's all this cultural stuff too you know so Dr. McFillin (31:58.759) Yeah, it reminds me of kind of what we went through with this mass psychosis in COVID. You know, it's the same thing you saw people on Twitter with their shots in their bios and masks and things of this nature. It's the danger here is to be aligning with something that's harmful because you believe it's just and you believe it's of a higher authority. And that's where That's where the authority bias, which has been conditioned to us through our school systems, through television, through media, through news outlets, of blind trust on people who are in authority positions, including the medical professionals, where you lose your inner guidance system of right and wrong. Jennifer Miller (32:33.696) Mm-hmm. Jennifer Miller (32:43.264) Yes, yes, yes, COVID was, that was, I have always been skeptical of much, I guess maybe because of my brother, I have thought about that lately, but. The first thing that I noticed in COVID was when they said natural immunity would not work. And I studied that in the 80s. So I knew that was wrong. That didn't make, that made no sense to me at all. And from that point forward, I did not comply really. I didn't wear masks. I didn't do any of it. Another interesting thing right before it was late 2019, I watched a documentary called One Child Nation. It was about the one child policy in China. And the propaganda was so similar. The sing-song voice when you're walking around Sam's Club telling you to put on your mask and social distance, you know, the posters, the billboards, the flashing signs on the interstate, all those things. It was the way Chinese used use propaganda. yeah. Dr. McFillin (33:45.662) Yeah, it's like they can try to convince us that water is not wet. And people would believe it if the right person told them it's the same thing where you can fall into the brainwashing that they have a vaccine that's an mRNA technology or natural immunity, a biological fact no longer exists or men versus women, right? There's no distinction. We can't define it. And so this is Jennifer Miller (33:49.054) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jennifer Miller (34:11.344) All right. Dr. McFillin (34:15.343) a wake up call for the sane to understand how clearly we can become insane through psychological operations. And I think that's kind of the next step in my evolution in the show is to really alert people to the various forms of psychological manipulation at intelligence agencies and other forms of mass propaganda to, you know, support harm or tyranny. Jennifer Miller (34:22.91) Mmm. Jennifer Miller (34:34.953) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (34:44.659) how easily we can be weaponized. And it's actually been a part of our lives forever. And if you don't recognize it, you're just in it. It's like you're just swimming in the ocean and you're unable to see it. It's like fish who are in a dirty fish bowl. Like they don't know that they're necessarily in a dirty fish bowl. It's all they know. And it requires us to have some degree of open dialogue, to not have censorship, obviously, to have the free strength of Jennifer Miller (34:47.27) Mm-hmm. Jennifer Miller (34:52.894) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jennifer Miller (35:01.161) Mm-hmm. Right, right. Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (35:12.679) the free exchange of ideas on various mediums and to have our academic institutions and our public schools actually support the free exchange of ideas. so red flag number one, censorship, thought police, the restriction and limitation of free dialogue across platforms, in classrooms. Like these are the things that a free society has to be willing to fight for. Jennifer Miller (35:16.852) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (35:43.309) and they're non-negotiables. Jennifer Miller (35:44.918) Agree. Yeah, so funny story. So in 2021, January 8th, 2021, I had had a Twitter account since I think 2009 or whenever it started. And I was not ever like, do I look like I would be trying to harm somebody on Twitter? No. I was sharing different videos and sharing things and about January 6th, basically there were there were people videoing inside there and showing, you know, and I was just sharing stuff. Well, I My Twitter account on January the 8th was just nuked, just gone. And I never was able, I don't know why, was a sick, I live in Tennessee, I was a grandmother, I was sitting on my porch just, yeah. So that was like a big wake up call for me. Dr. McFillin (36:31.591) Yeah, I mean, it's scary the degree of, you know, technocracy and how we've given up our rights. We don't even know we're doing it because they have all our data and we sign off on it. We don't read the five, 10 pages of things that are sent before we say yes, because we just want the convenience of whatever we're signing up for. But we've been handing over our data for a very long time now and they're using it to sensor and to monitor. But I think that's beyond the scope of today's discussion. I'm more interested to know about Jennifer Miller (36:57.363) Yeah, sure it is. Dr. McFillin (37:00.933) the lives, the experiences of people who are de-transitioning, what shifts in them, you know, at one point they believe something about themselves to be true, and then later on at another time they realize it is not, and now they understand that they were victims and what has been done to them cannot be reversed. if you could, in the best of your ability, try to... Jennifer Miller (37:05.394) Okay. Jennifer Miller (37:20.147) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (37:28.047) Explain to the audience, like, inside the minds and the lives of the transitioners and their stories. Jennifer Miller (37:34.751) Well, I think to understand it, we have to go back to actual child development and child theory like Erickson's theories of identity development between the ages of 12 and 18. That is when kids, they try on different things and they try on who they're going to be. And there is a period of genuine discomfort. You mentioned the girls, puberty, going through puberty is horrible for girls. I mean, I'm sure it is for boys too, but there's all of a sudden there's this interest in you that you don't like and all of that so it's very hard. I think Erickson called it moratorium that time when you were trying to figure out who you are and you know it's a provisional sense of self we go through things that we like and don't like but then that gender identity framework comes into that and it has an explanation for everything and it names everything and it tells you what to do about everything. provides community. It reframes your suffering into, you're just, you know, it's because you were born in the wrong body. So the... the teenager feels immediate relief. that's what it is. That's all I have to do is take these steps. And so another, it forecloses on any identity exploration that they could do. And it just becomes a carrier for all of their problems, especially the kids that are neurodivergent. So it's like the false self that, Winnicott, false self that they believe it is authentic because they have taken this identity on in order to survive whatever the psychological pain is that they have as teenagers. And so the kids, when they come out of that in their early 20s, and they're like, what did I do? Of course, because they were just children. They had no way of knowing that. And we have forgotten that. That is... Jennifer Miller (39:34.461) Child development and developmental psychology has also been queered. It's been queered into a thing that says that children, they have autonomy and they can tell you who they are and you have to believe them in all of these things. the regret for the girls, they all were in their upper teens, early 20s. The ones that I know, obviously I don't know that many. It was really after the mastectomies, I think, that reality hit for the girls that I've talked to. It was like that was kind of like a, what did I do to myself moment. And then they tried to start turning around, but I'm sure you're aware that the gender. Activists it's a cult. It's like a Gnostic cult and when you try to leave a cult You know, you were never trans you were just a poser be quiet You're hurting all the other real trans people, you know They're very and this this glitter family that loved you two weeks ago now hates everything about you and a Couple of the girls the young girls talked about that they've since been able to have children thankfully these these two that I'm talking of but they had had those mastectomies very early as teenagers, so there was tissue that had not yet developed. so milk came in underneath those mastectomy scars and it had nowhere to go. So that was a very painful, I mean. Dr. McFillin (41:04.733) Mm. Jennifer Miller (41:08.688) It takes, milk draws up, but it takes a few days. You know, it's painful, I'm sure. There is another story I'm sure that you've seen in the media. Johnny Skinner, have you seen anything of him? He's a young boy. Well, he's not a young boy. He's a young man, but he looks very young because his puberty was suppressed at 13 and then he went on estrogen. Okay, okay. Well, Johnny has been... Dr. McFillin (41:29.266) I've abstained from media, Jennifer. So I completely pulled myself out. Jennifer Miller (41:35.06) Good for you. I do too really, except for the subject. just kind of, I'm in this world so I don't pay attention to the news really either. But he has been so brave and been testifying in hearings and trying to get some justice because the problem they're running into is a statute of limitations on medical malpractice. So it runs out before these kids even realize that they did anything that they shouldn't have done or they regret it. So that's a battle that they're fighting. There's also for them, there has been no medical treatment for them. been, I mean, was no ICD code, so therefore nobody could do anything, right? But now there is, I think there is one now that that's done. And I don't know if I answered your question, to be honest, but. Dr. McFillin (42:29.663) Yeah, it's trying to understand the experiences of what they're going through. And I think you communicated some of the challenges and suffering. What I guess I did not get answered and I'm interested in is how did they get to that point? How did they wake up to the fact that they are not gender dysphoric or they're not transgender, right? That's an awakening that I could only imagine is very destabilizing. Jennifer Miller (42:49.299) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. of course, yeah I think the short answer is they grew up. I mean, if you leave these kids alone for the most part, if you don't do anything, the gender dysphoria or whatever you want to call it, it's gone by the time they're 20. They grow out of it. They learn to accept themselves for who they are. If they're gay, they're gay. I don't know that the girls, I don't think that's a whole different cohort. That had not a ton to do with being gay. It had more to do with being a teenage girl who will follow the trend and who will do what her friends are doing and who will... Who wants to... I remember being a very rebellious teenager. You know, I didn't listen to what my parents said. Jennifer Miller (43:41.276) I mean was a weird circumstance but still all teenagers, it's what teenagers do, they have to separate from their parents. So this is the way that some of these kids did that I suppose. But I think the short answer is how they awoke when they grew up and realized that they were just children and they had no idea what was happening to them and they were harmed. Dr. McFillin (44:04.457) With the rapid onset gender dysphoria, which we're talking about right now, which is this extraordinary rise in adolescent females identifying as transgender, a cohort that had never identified themselves previously, which is an indication that it is more of a social contagion. Generally what I was seeing at the time, and I'm speaking about it like it's in the past, and as you said, that it's not in the past, like this is currently happening. Jennifer Miller (44:07.858) Yes. Jennifer Miller (44:26.58) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (44:30.013) I saw it as often the most vulnerable of girls, the ones that did feel rejected by the mainstream. And they were seeking out a group and they found a group of others who were also felt rejected. Maybe it had to do with their own struggles with their appearance. Maybe they didn't believe they met the cultural norm for attraction. They were going through these rapid shifts in their own personal development. And as we know, during that developmental stage of adolescence, Jennifer Miller (44:33.524) Mm. Jennifer Miller (44:49.908) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (45:00.133) high degree of girls are experiencing challenges with their developing body and everything that comes with it. So there's a, I guess, a norm and expected degree of body dysmorphia that comes with that developing body, especially in a culture that presents women, especially the use of social media as objects and as sexual objects. And now you have free pornography and you're pushing that out into the matrix and they're absorbing this. Jennifer Miller (45:06.844) Mm-hmm Jennifer Miller (45:23.388) Right. Dr. McFillin (45:29.683) And so they're seeing this fake version of women on a screen that are getting attention for their body. And then they're reflecting back on their own body and it's developing this really strong hate. And they're finding then solace in a community with others who are saying, this isn't my body. I was not born into this body, it's the wrong body. And then finding that validation in the mental health system and academia. Jennifer Miller (45:43.38) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (45:58.696) and medical professionals. then so parents who are really confused themselves and have been brought up in American culture in the public school system, they surrender their autonomy to the institutions and the medical professionals who then use fear tactics and it becomes reinforced. So instead of having parents who are wise and they protect their children from the abuse of systems or people, which they could do that you can validate a person's challenges, even your child and say, no, you are a girl. And what you're going through is tip is very much understandable given where you are in your life. I felt that way too. And it might be even more difficult for you because I didn't have social media. I didn't have a phone. I didn't have a. the challenges that so many of these kids do today. But it is up to parents to protect their own children from medical tyranny. And my concern is the overreach of any form of state or institution. So we start examining some of these other states like California, which want to intervene then into the private lives of families and then actually use law and law enforcement. Jennifer Miller (47:15.699) Mm. Dr. McFillin (47:25.569) as a way to use these fear tactics for parents to have to comply to the transgender ideology. so parents are really up against it in so many ways. Psychiatry also abuses this when you have a child who says, well, I'm going to kill myself then. And that's a weapon right there for whatever reason. They learn to, even if they have no intent to die by suicide, if they make that statement. Jennifer Miller (47:48.337) Mm-hmm. Sure. Yeah. Dr. McFillin (47:52.981) and then you bring them to an emergency room or to a medical professional, then you have to comply with the medical organizations in their institution's recommendations, which could be a pharmaceutical like an antidepressant that more than doubles the likelihood of a suicide event. And if you don't follow those recommendations, if you do not comply, then they can make a referral to the office of Child Protective Services, whatever that name is in the particular state. This is just an alert to everybody about where we have devolved into and how much you have given up your sovereignty and your individual rights because we do not pay attention to what our lawmakers have been doing over decades to slowly, slowly deteriorate the power of the individual and the rights that we have over our own families. Jennifer Miller (48:22.257) Mm-hmm. Jennifer Miller (48:49.907) Right, and I think as a mother, I think that... We have this instinct, this protective instinct, but I think our culture has so just disrespected that, that instinct to protect your young, you know, that, and again, also the SSRIs, know, how many of these mothers are on some sort of psychotropic medication that doesn't, they don't have that anymore, you know? I can't imagine. I probably would have gone, I probably would have gone to jail if somebody had tried to do that to one of my boys. Again, I have a history so that's different, but still it's just, I think that as a whole in our culture, we don't trust our instincts anymore. We've numbed them out and given them away and just do what we're told a lot of times. Dr. McFillin (49:43.223) Unfortunately, and this is where it sounds conspiratorial, not to everybody, probably not to my audience. All you have to do is look what's available. MKUltra, for example, the ways that our own intelligence forces in the United States aligned with academic psychiatry to learn how to develop certain products, chemical, pharmaceutical interventions. Jennifer Miller (49:45.811) Not to me. Dr. McFillin (50:11.7) that could lead to a more controllable population. And there are ways to do that with specific chemicals. And we saw this with MKUltra and the use of psychedelics during that time is to be able to influence by the manipulation of certain chemicals to get people to act in ways they wouldn't have otherwise if they were able to use critical thinking and they had all their faculties about them. But when you look into the development of SSRIs, for example, you can see, although it's not clearly stated because when it came to MKUltra, Operation Monarch, things like that, what they did is they kept some information, made it public, and then they hid everything else. So the generation of psychiatric drugs that got pushed into the zeitgeist starting in the 1990s with all the power of media advertising federal government's approval and has led to the current crisis has its roots in its own government that they are using these drugs which manipulate chemicals. Serotonin in itself is such a meaningful neurochemical that interacts with all aspects of the human body. And that's why it's so nefarious for developing children because there is a bi-directional effect with so many other aspects of human development, including hormonal development. So you interfere with nature, you're interfering with the entire system. When you blunt emotions, which are powerful energies, and you influence thought, which these drugs do, is there's a spell bonding effect. They alter your understanding of yourself. It makes you more controllable and a... sedated, drugged out population doesn't revolt. There's no revolution because emotions as energy and free thinking, critical thinking adults, they oppose tyranny. But when you combine the drugs with the messages and you create mass confusion and dependence on the authority, that is how you have a controllable population and a sick one, which is exactly what we have. And when you're sick, Jennifer Miller (52:09.714) Mm. Jennifer Miller (52:18.653) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (52:33.556) You are dependent on those authorities. When you have fear propagation, right? When you see yourself not as a soul that's embodying this human experience for a journey and a high moral authority, but you see yourself only to be the identity in which you have been taught yourself to be, that you're living this one life, there is no God. There's this secularism that is pushed and a scientism that's pushed. Then you are clinging to that identity. Jennifer Miller (52:54.0) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (53:02.516) And it is fear in which you can be controlled. And there's been so many great psychological tests, including the Milgram experiments that demonstrate how human beings can be controlled. And they are, and we are. And now you add in the algorithm and you add in mass media, social media, you can just push it and push it and push it and push it. And it enters into our subconscious. And when it's in your subconscious, when it's in a Jennifer Miller (53:04.869) Mm-hmm. Jennifer Miller (53:10.587) Mm. Dr. McFillin (53:32.328) specific brainwave of like a like an alpha into theta brainwave state, you're absorbing this without conscious awareness. And then you are communicating thoughts that are not even yours. And this is what happened in our culture. People are all saying the same thing. I'm sure you have experienced this yourself. As someone who was just an observer of humans is I once we went through this period I'm Jennifer Miller (53:58.332) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (54:01.366) I'm a therapist and people are coming into my office and they're all repeating the same messages, the same thoughts. So the same teenagers that are subjected to this trans ideology are saying the same things. You go through COVID, people who are subjected to the same messages over and over again are repeating all of them. And the therapists that we're trying to hire are saying the same messages too. It's like robots. Jennifer Miller (54:08.24) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jennifer Miller (54:26.962) Yes. Dr. McFillin (54:29.089) who are repeating the same things over and over again. And the spellbinding effect where it's really disorienting is they all believe it's their own thoughts. Jennifer Miller (54:36.466) Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's awful. It's very scary. I read a book back during COVID. It was called The Rape of the Mind. Are you familiar with that book? It was written in the 1950s by Merleau, Merleau, M-E-R-L-L-O, I think. But he came out of Germany. And so he wrote this book and it talks about these things you're talking about too. yeah, it's been going on for a hundred years, at least, you know. Dr. McFillin (55:01.751) Well, let's talk about the counter revolution, which I would say in the mental health field, guess, all right, you you and I are colleagues in this, right? What is if we had to identify and start stating some of our strong belief systems around this, what would be what would the counter revolution support? Jennifer Miller (55:04.676) Okay, let's do it. Jennifer Miller (55:11.526) Yes, absolutely. Jennifer Miller (55:23.94) in terms of the gender ideology or just the whole thing. Dr. McFillin (55:26.731) The whole thing because I think the gender ideology fits in. Jennifer Miller (55:29.266) It is, it's just a piece of the puzzle. Well, we really need to get back to critically thinking and we need to, people need to understand and reconnect with whatever God is to them. You know, I mean, for me it's Jesus. I met Jesus and when I was 17, I was obviously not raised in a very Christian environment or anything and I didn't meet like a theology or a denomination or a religion. I met a person and he's been with me ever since. through thick and thin and up and down. And I do believe with all of my heart that the reason that I'm talking to you today is because of what I suffered with and what I went through 50 years ago with my brother and what I knew. I think the only way that we make meaning out of our lives is to use our experiences and our suffering to help other people, to be in service of others. It's like AA almost, know, the higher power, you're powerless, give it to him and go help others, you know. So I don't know how you get people to that point because that's a root. Some people do not want to hear about spirituality at all. They don't want to hear about God. They don't hear about Jesus. They don't believe in it. I listened to one of your podcasts a week or two ago and the guest that day was talking about how people that believe in God or whatever think they know more than others or something like that. I don't know, didn't, but to me it was like he knew more than me because he doesn't believe in God. So I find a lot of like double speak in these folks. Not him necessarily. He was a very smart man. He was a psychiatrist, I think. like in the, you, there's a guy on Substack and X, I think Benjamin Ryan is his name. He's put out a lot of videos from trainings at WPATH. Jennifer Miller (57:21.618) And the things they are saying, they're doing. The things they're saying that our side would do is what they're doing, like the conversion therapy, blindly believing things. It's such a religion, the gender stuff is. And I don't know how we get back to reality. I think in 1963, honestly, and I remember that. I was in first grade when Kennedy was killed. And so it was a big deal in the 60s, you know? And as I look back at And I my parents were watching when Oswald was shot on live TV and then that guy got killed that shot him So, know, where's you know, that's convenient, right? Of course didn't notice that back then but I truly think that that was kind of a turning point I'm not saying Kennedy was you know all that but I think that our country took a turn there because we went into the 60s and everything was crazy and then Bobby Kennedy got killed and Martin Luther King jr. Got killed and It's just kind of in chaos on one level or another ever since then. So I'm rambling. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Dr. McFillin (58:30.84) Well, I know a lot of other people hold a similar view that that was a coup and that was the time where the intelligence forces took over the US government. Maybe we lost democracy. We lost the independent president, the independent congressman or senator. That they're essentially controlled and that the only way that they are able to attain that seat in power is by serving those special interests. And I think that's a very plausible theory given. Jennifer Miller (58:36.337) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (59:00.7) what we know. And the downstream effect of that, of that chaos is also a fear provocation in the American public. That fear is the controlling aspect for anything that's nefarious. Like how do you get humans to act in inhumane ways? Well, you have to be able to create the other. You have to create in fear. Jennifer Miller (59:12.497) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (59:30.772) in separation. And essentially you have to move away from faith in connection to the divine. Because even though we still use religion to justify atrocities, essentially if you're going to follow Christianity and follow the 10 commandments, then you wouldn't in any way be able to support murder, regardless of the context. you wouldn't blindly follow an authority that is engaging in atrocities and harm. You couldn't be complicit in that. You'd be violating your religion. So in some ways, you do have to devalue the teachings of spiritual masters or you'd have to somehow try to intervene with America as a Christian country, or at least altered the ideas, right? And make that in itself an institution that can influence and control. And I think we see that. know, people, a lot of people say they are Christians, but there's so many denominations, right? There's so many different sects, and you're also influenced by the pastor or the priest, or in Catholicism, it's the centralized Vatican, right? Jennifer Miller (01:00:47.505) Yeah. Right. Jennifer Miller (01:00:53.841) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (01:00:58.594) And I'm always a believer in what is true is always true. So when these belief systems start shifting based on the culture of the time, well, you it's not truth, it's ideology. And the state and religions can certainly influence, you know, people's ideas of who they are as a human being and decisions that are made. So let's think about back to the anti-life movement. You know, we've been able to justify Jennifer Miller (01:01:06.513) Okay. Jennifer Miller (01:01:15.162) Yeah. Dr. McFillin (01:01:28.598) the killing of children, of babies, of the unborn, as if it is, as if it's moral and it respects individual choice and right. And you can create the argument around that that gets you to challenge your own assumptions and understanding, right? The moment we start rationalizing, ending life, whether that's war, whether that's abortion, whether that's the death penalty, regardless of what that is, It is still choosing to take a moral position that devalues life. And when you devalue life, you begin to start walking down a path of exactly where we are today, which is a confused, divided, scared, and sick population. And then enters in the mental health system, right? They have the answer for this. And then you're coming up more against those institutional ideas. Jennifer Miller (01:02:25.105) Yeah, agreed 100%. Yeah, I question really everything that I believed in terms of the government and the world at this point. like going back to 1963 which is my first memory. think it's all I've described it before like watching a movie that you're actually kind of a character in the movie at the same time but you're watching all this stuff go on around you that doesn't make sense but but also though if you read scripture it does make sense it's it's very clearly stated that that these kinds of things will happen because men are will follow their own way you know. So the mental health system, yeah, I don't know. I know that I was called to do this, but when I look back, I wonder if it was the best choice, but I guess it was at my age because I was 50 and I wanted to help people. And then I got involved in this system that really doesn't help people very much. I worked in, first job in Tennessee, if you want to be a mandatory screening agent, do you know what that might be? It's like a person that can sign a piece of paper and put somebody in the mental hospital. like commit them. All you have to do in Tennessee, you can have a temporary license. So you're fresh out of school, you gotta take a four hour course in Nashville, and you then have the power to sign your name and put people in the hospital. And you know what happens in hospitals, you know. Dr. McFillin (01:03:59.662) Well, let's be clear about what that means so everybody knows. That person now has the ability to take away your freedom. Everything else does require a law to be broken. You're able to have a defense, right? In this particular situation, Jennifer Miller (01:04:03.802) Okay. Jennifer Miller (01:04:11.291) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (01:04:28.779) somebody can make a assessment about a future event. Right? And now we can all agree that nobody can see the future. So one says, well, you could be a danger to yourself or somebody else. They now have the authority to force hospitalize you. And yes, what happens in these drugs are more, in these hospitals are more like prisons and they can force drug you and they do. Jennifer Miller (01:04:56.113) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (01:04:56.853) And so that's even before there's a court hearing. So they can hold you for 72 hours, I think. Yeah. And in that time, they can force drug you. So understand that that is a violation of your rights. And what we're using is a authority with the blanket power of medicine that has no science as a background, right? It's an objective assessment, a prediction of something. So where else does that exist in medicine? So it's not Jennifer Miller (01:05:00.593) 72 hours, yeah. Jennifer Miller (01:05:07.451) Mm-hmm. Jennifer Miller (01:05:18.469) Mm-hmm. Right. Dr. McFillin (01:05:26.369) medicine. You know, it's an authority that shouldn't have that type of power. It's granted to them, again, by the state, and it could be used on behalf of the state. So anyone can call you crazy, right? How do they prove it? Well, I said so, right? You have a delusion. Well, what's a delusion? Well, it's a belief system that's not true. But yet you're supporting trans ideology. That's not a delusion, right? Jennifer Miller (01:05:36.207) Mm-hmm. Jennifer Miller (01:05:44.505) Right. Jennifer Miller (01:05:52.385) Mm-hmm. right, right, no, it's not. Dr. McFillin (01:05:55.271) That's not a delusion, but I've heard people who came and said, I believe in God and I pray over you and I believe God's gonna protect me. And then that's a sign as a religious delusion, spiritual delusion. So this is the world that we operate in. And my concern is that I don't wanna provoke fear from these conversations. I just wanna provoke awareness that... Jennifer Miller (01:06:10.017) yeah, exactly. Jennifer Miller (01:06:20.785) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (01:06:22.412) In your freedom, you don't have to utilize these institutions. And the more attention and energy you give on the darkness, the stronger it becomes, the more power it becomes, right? I forget who made the statement. Well, what happens if a war declared and nobody shows up? Jennifer Miller (01:06:25.017) Yeah, no, you don't have to. Jennifer Miller (01:06:33.528) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jennifer Miller (01:06:39.056) No, nothing, right? Dr. McFillin (01:06:40.65) I'd love for us to get to that stage in our development because then we would be ungovernable. If they declare war, we just don't show up. And same thing with this whole mental health craze, the psychiatry diagnoses, the transgender stuff. They can claim it, but let's say we just don't show up. We're just not going to align to it anymore. Jennifer Miller (01:06:46.832) Yeah. Jennifer Miller (01:06:58.222) Mm-hmm, Nah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I guess that's what I did in 2020 when I just opened a small office by myself with nobody else, just me, and I didn't have anybody helping me. I just kind of took a leap of faith. It was a leap of faith and I didn't take insurance. And for a couple of years, I use psychology today, you know, as a marketing thing. And in 2022, I even took that down and I have ever since been like just by word of mouth or I get referrals through therapy first, which is a for the gender issues. But so many people do not, they don't want to be in that system either. A lot of people don't want to be in there. They like it that they can come to someone who doesn't label them and doesn't put them, put a label on them that goes out into the universe that can be found at some point maybe, depression, PTSD, whatever it is. Even when I was having to diagnose, I used adjustment disorder all the time. Just because I think a lot of things that bring people into the office are adjustment disorders. some sort of transition in their life. They had a death, had a bad marriage, they have a kid that's giving them trouble. It's figuring out how to walk through life without taking a drug to do that. in answer to a question you asked a minute ago, I think we have to build parallel systems which you're doing that, right? We can't work, we can't do this inside the system that exists. We can't, so. Dr. McFillin (01:08:31.332) And there's a transition, I think there's a bridge here. So right now, in order to serve people, they have health insurance, which is a whole broken system in itself. But they spend a lot of their financial resources investing into their health insurance program, right? So their work hours is part of their financial package. of course they want to pay a $20 copay instead of whatever the cost is, right? Jennifer Miller (01:08:39.056) yeah. Jennifer Miller (01:08:51.225) Right. Jennifer Miller (01:08:57.54) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (01:08:58.01) And so in order for that to be reimbursed, you have to provide a label, right? And so one of the things we could do is not buy into the labels. We can say we're going to provide a generic label for you to receive the help, but do not in any way buy into this as a discrete, legitimate medical diagnosis. Jennifer Miller (01:09:02.287) Yep. Jennifer Miller (01:09:10.468) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (01:09:19.766) Unfortunately, there so many people are brainwashed. Their social workers are handing out four or five diagnoses and people believe it's real. You're co-creating another reality with your clients. And this is so harmful. And this is where the counterrevolution is for me is call out the lies, live not by lies, do not be deceived. Understand what a psychiatric diagnosis is and what it's not. Jennifer Miller (01:09:27.258) Yeah. Dr. McFillin (01:09:46.094) And the illegitimate authorities in psychiatry who want to act like real medical doctors, even though they're not, I know you went through medical school, but you have made a choice to not practice medicine. You made a choice to practice lies and then to be a drug dealer on behalf of the pharmaceutical companies in the state. That's truth. That will always be true. Right? There's going to be a time when no one's taking SSRIs anymore. Jennifer Miller (01:10:04.976) It is completely true. It's completely true. Dr. McFillin (01:10:11.589) The reason no one's going to be taking SSRIs anymore is not because of the industry, it's because of the harmed community. It's getting too loud right now. They're getting larger. You cannot silence them. And so now they're influencing the market and they're influencing the collective. And once the collective realizes, my God, I could take a drug that can permanently affect my sexual functioning, that can make me want to commit suicide or harm somebody else. These could be permanent consequences Jennifer Miller (01:10:16.718) Mm-hmm. It is getting loud and I love that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jennifer Miller (01:10:32.441) Yeah, yeah. Dr. McFillin (01:10:40.655) for taking the drug initially and I'm not even informed of it because my doctor is brainwashed too by the entire system. Once people realize that, they're not gonna take the risk. You can't just say a drug is antidepressant and then pop it into people's consciousness and let people believe that, we have a drug that's gonna make you happy. The nonsense doesn't work anymore. You're getting sicker and sicker and sicker. The people are getting worse and worse and worse and you enter into the system, the data is clear. Jennifer Miller (01:10:42.116) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (01:11:09.839) you enter into the system, you're going to get worse. And so the natural evolution of this is the SSRI will not be available. But what's going to happen, because we just saw it this past weekend actually, is taking the psychedelics, right? Which is a plant or chemical in a plant used indigenous cultures across the world in ceremonies to awaken people. Jennifer Miller (01:11:12.452) Yes. Jennifer Miller (01:11:22.224) I know where you're going. Jennifer Miller (01:11:33.882) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (01:11:39.3) I think they're spirit molecules, but they're not going to do that. What they're going to do is they're going to create it into a drug. And it's why you saw Marty McCary, head of the FDA, call it a serotonin 2A agonist, right? No, that's not what's, that's not what psilocybin or ibogaine or any psychedelic is. Right there is your tell folks. That's a, that's so the pharmaceutical companies can try to mimic and create a molecule that acts upon a certain receptor. Jennifer Miller (01:11:45.315) Mm-hmm. Jennifer Miller (01:11:53.264) All right, yeah. Dr. McFillin (01:12:09.497) Don't fall for it again. Now I believe in psychedelics have a role, but they're opening you up. They're not closing you down. They're not treating a condition. They're not treating a made up mental illness. They're allowing you to become more spiritually connected and more aware of things that are outside of your conscious control. You're really gonna trust the US government again to, to Jennifer Miller (01:12:12.057) Yeah. I do too, but not just hand it out. Dr. McFillin (01:12:37.947) clear say a safety product when every time they do that and what they've done throughout generations now is they've just been a revolving door for approval for pharmaceutical companies that have created mass sickness like who at this point Jennifer trusts the FDA and the pharmaceutical industrial complex. Jennifer Miller (01:12:39.714) Mm-hmm. Jennifer Miller (01:12:50.201) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jennifer Miller (01:12:59.735) I suppose people that are just not. paying attention that aren't awake at all to what's going on. It's not just psychiatry at all. know this. It's the Western healthcare model period. Oh, your LDL is high. Here, take a statin. Oh, your blood pressure's a little high today. Here, let me give you a blood pressure pill. Multiple times over the years, I was offered an antidepressant because I'm a female and I was going through problems. I never took one. And that was a gut feeling too. It was a gut feeling. I don't want to take you know. As far as the psychedelics, I do think there's a use for them, but I'm a child of the 70s and I remember people that we used to say they fried their brains because they just took so much of it, you know. If you pull it out of the spiritual realm with, like you were saying, with the indigenous peoples and such, it's not the same thing at all. It's just gonna be another drug. Dr. McFillin (01:13:59.568) Yeah, there's, I mean, there's safeguards that come with ceremony and knowledge from ancestors that has passed down generation for generation. And it's incorporated into this integration process, into a belief system, into a culture, to an understanding of the interconnectedness of nature and all things. And then you try to pull it out of that culture and you try to monetize it and you try to medicalize it. Jennifer Miller (01:14:09.945) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Dr. McFillin (01:14:29.209) the results are going to be disastrous. It's as if that we have a percentage of our population that walks into their own enslavement. Like the cage is open. They don't have to walk into it, but they voluntarily do and then enslave themselves. And to me, the awakening process for most people is to see all the different ways that you're enslaved. You're enslaved by that phone. You're enslaved by Netflix, Hollywood entertainment, media, mainstream media, social media, public schools, colleges, all of academia, the manipulated scientific literature racket, the authority, your government. They're all walking you down the same path of enslavement. They have a hold of your mind. And the transhumanists with the biotech industry and the use of all the data to control you is gonna walk you continuously down your path when your only way of freedom is a return to the sacred or return to common sense. You are one in nature. You are one with God. Only in silence can you begin to be trusting your inner guidance system again because you've surrendered that to technology and to authority. And the more we do that, the more we get emotionally distressed, sick, physically unwell, and you take more drugs, right? The whole ADHD nonsense of everyone who's caged in the system and then have a hard time focusing on anything else. can't even sit still for five minutes. They can't even be with their own minds for five minutes. Then they're convinced that they have some brain disease. It's so absolutely ridiculous at this point, but it speaks again to the shared vulnerability of our minds being captured and they have to a large extent and we have to reverse course. And you know, it's so difficult to with parents, two parents out of a home working and your kids going into daycare and the financial stresses that exist, you end up raising your kids, you know, with iPads and technology. So you're kind of hooking them into the technological world from the beginning. And it's so, so sad. Jennifer Miller (01:16:53.505) It is very sad. It is very sad. Again, I agree with everything you're saying. We have walked into it ourselves. Education, I guess, is the way to turn people around, just like you're trying to do here, know, educating the public about what's actually going on. And parents, I see young children, eight, nine, 10-year-old children on a billify and, you know, things like that. and I tried recently this has happened I tried to talk to mom I showed her that it was 138 pages of of prescribing information for this drug and the black box warning and all these things so she agreed to talk to the prescriber and he just told her that it was the best one to like get this child to behave so basically they're drugging the child to behave I don't think the mom believes that but I totally think that the provider knows what he's doing. But, and she's also on some sort of ADHD medication. But she has a, she's an adopted child. She has a horrible background. It's trauma. It's all trauma. Dr. McFillin (01:18:04.954) I mean, it's so inhumane, and it is a direct consequence of. detaching us from our humanness, blunting our emotions, dividing us by race, by gender, by sexuality, by country. It's purposeful division. And when you can divide people, then you have a degree of control over people. And we just feed into it with all the identity politics and narratives and two party systems. Jennifer Miller (01:18:30.159) Of course, Dr. McFillin (01:18:36.664) Wake up folks, there's no difference between the two parties. They all do the same thing. We're right back in war. Our economy's horrible. Everything you voted for, if you're on the right. And listen, I guess I could identify myself somewhat to be at right. I'm a libertarian by nature, but I did vote in the election. And boy, it didn't turn out the way we were hoping it would, which is just a good indication that it's not government that's going to save you. Jennifer Miller (01:18:36.79) Yeah, there is no difference. Jennifer Miller (01:18:52.44) Mm-hmm. Jennifer Miller (01:19:05.014) Right. Now, I will give this administration credit for stepping up to the plate on the gender issues though. Because, and I don't know if that's got more to do with Kennedy than the president, I'm not sure. But at least there's movement. Yeah. Dr. McFillin (01:19:05.444) They're not on your side. Dr. McFillin (01:19:22.244) Well, this is what we have to remind our group about here, or our listeners here, Jennifer, is they create cultural crises to divide and then to save. It's just the agenda of control, right? They're all the same owned by the same people. So you end up voting for these cultural issues. They get us fighting over these cultural issues. Yes, it's horrible, the whole transgender aspect, but don't let us not act like it was real. Jennifer Miller (01:19:48.109) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (01:19:52.257) It was a psychological operation. So they can continue to do the things that they're doing. Fund a war industrial complex, tax the hell out of you, pass laws that will infringe on your own freedoms and your rights. Right? So it's all a distraction. It's a, it's a circus. Look at the circus over here so we can continue to fund the empire in this way and take away your own rights. And you'll never even know about it because you're too busy arguing over cultural issues. Jennifer Miller (01:20:16.354) over here. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you're right, but I'm still thankful that I wouldn't even be speaking out if probably if we were under a different administration or if they hadn't at least done, you know, well, the Supreme Court cases. Dr. McFillin (01:20:33.454) Why? that see that that's that's the brainwashing no government changes it. Donald Trump doesn't go on day one and sign an executive order and that has any power that's just putting something out into the collective consciousness. It's the people. It's our decision to do what's right. No, we don't. We're not subjects to a government. Right. And when and when you're a medical professional or a mental health professional, guess what ethics supersede law. Right. There is no justification. Jennifer Miller (01:20:40.814) True. Jennifer Miller (01:20:51.146) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jennifer Miller (01:20:56.384) No kings, right? Jennifer Miller (01:21:02.978) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (01:21:05.752) because it is the prevailing ideology of a time. Just because somebody says our standard is gender-affirming care doesn't mean you have to be in lockstep and follow it. In fact, it is your responsibility to speak out and not obey when harm is created. Do you understand that? That's what it means to be a free and sovereign person and as a professional. You just following along with the rules because someone created for you doesn't let you off the hook. Jennifer Miller (01:21:22.829) Mm-hmm. Jennifer Miller (01:21:33.966) No, I agree Dr. McFillin (01:21:34.051) It might give you a sense of safety, right, in the short term, but in the long term, right, your own moral health. One day this life is gonna be over, and you're going to be accountable for all the decisions that you've made. And that's what we have to get back to is this higher moral responsibility around ethics. And first do no harm as just a credence for all this. Jennifer Miller (01:21:42.264) Mm-hmm. Jennifer Miller (01:21:55.904) I agree. I agree. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Dr. McFillin (01:22:01.879) empathy and caring for your fellow human beings. Call out lies when lies exist. Be courageous. Know your own freedom and your own autonomy. This is like such critical parts and raise your kids that way. You know, raise your kids to challenge authority. Raise them with a moral standing, a belief system, some form of objective reality and goodness and caring for your fellow human beings. Because that's how Jennifer Miller (01:22:04.834) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jennifer Miller (01:22:15.31) Mm. Dr. McFillin (01:22:31.354) That's how we surrender ourselves to tyranny. The lessons have been there throughout human history. They're well written, but we tend to follow the same unfortunate path and we walk into the same trap. And I do believe that it's going to be different, that we're shining the light on the darkness, that these institutions that have created so much harm with so much deception are no longer going to be applicable. Jennifer Miller (01:22:32.512) yeah. Dr. McFillin (01:23:00.59) for future generations. They are going to no longer have power, because we're not going to allow them to have power. And we're going to create the alternatives. And those alternatives are going to be based on the highest of ethical standards. And that is always freedom and respect for the individual's rights to choose to live the way that they want, even if we disagree with it. But It is also in alignment with a higher authority, which is that of love and God. I mean, that's truth, right? That you are not just a biological machine of parts, that you are a sovereign soul inhabiting a body for a human experience. And these rights are provided to you. The freedom is provided to you by God, no institution ever. No one has a right to censor you. No one has a right to take your thoughts and call them dangerous. Jennifer Miller (01:23:29.568) Right. Dr. McFillin (01:23:53.006) Right? No one has that right. So you can't surrender it. And if we do, we are no longer going to survive as a culture. The culture is going to be decimated and we will find ourselves in a very dark and dystopian reality. So now is absolutely the time for mass awakening. I'm going to give you the final word because this whole conversation Jennifer Miller (01:24:07.406) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (01:24:22.401) really started with gender ideology, transgender ideology and its horrible consequences. But it was more about how we can be captured, how our minds can be captured and we can be in positions to do harm even though our intentions are good. Jennifer Miller (01:24:31.95) Mm-hmm. Jennifer Miller (01:24:45.837) I should maybe clarify when I said I would not be speaking out. I would not be speaking out at this stage in my life. I would have just retired because if I was 20 years younger I probably would have been very much more vocal than I am. I did speak out in a way because I left the system and worked in my own space and did the things you're talking about. I think with the gender issues, think education is key, especially for upcoming professionals so they can understand where this came from and that it's not true and that it's built on very flimsy evidence. We didn't get into WPATH and all of those things, but all of those standards of care that have been created were built on basically fabricated. research much like the rest of the system has. So I think for professionals we need to get back to actual child development theories that we used to believe back in the 90s and before the foundations of how children grow and how they learn and the history, I think the history is really important, all the way back to Kinsey, all the way back to the early 1900s to know how this evolved and where it came from. That it's not just, know, suddenly it's not discrimination. Discrimination is not much so children will speak out, that's not true. Children, no child believes that they're in the wrong body until an adult tells them that they're in the wrong body. And so I think we start. Dr. McFillin (01:26:21.881) That's right. Jennifer Miller (01:26:25.886) have to start there. I don't know how exactly you do it with professionals. I guess you have to do it through places like what you're creating because you're not going to get in the universities probably right now. But I think that's probably the key to that part of it. And I think that connecting with God, Jesus, is it has to be that's the foundation I work from. That's everything that I do flows from that. When COVID was first going on and it was so, I mean, I knew it wasn't real, but I also saw the panic and the fear and the things that happened in this country and it was so shut down. And you know how, what if, what if, what if, you know how we will do that? I just, I feel like it came from God. Even if, even if these things happen, I'm still God, I'm still on my throne, and I'm still in control, and I'm not surprised, and we you know, we will come through this. So that's kind of the foundation that I live on. Dr. McFillin (01:27:31.785) God bless you and thank you for your work. You're assisting with a population that needs lot of help right now and they're victims and the people who caused the harm aren't recognizing it and that leaves them with no one to turn to. And so extremely grateful for your willingness to speak out and your willingness to help those who are suffering with these transitions. And I hope the people who are listening to this this assists in their own awakening. Jennifer Miller (01:27:33.207) Thank you. Thank you. Dr. McFillin (01:28:02.251) And as they face others in their own community who have been victimized by this ideology, just know that the road to hell is often paved with good intentions. And we have to have a return to decency and be grounded in objective reality and understand the forces at play. that are attempting to captivate our minds and control us in this way. But I believe in the human. I believe in the sovereign soul. And I believe that even if you're captive right now and your mind is controlled, there's a higher self. There's a soul that wants to express itself with wisdom and love. And that's what we're going to try to activate. So Jennifer Miller, want to thank you for a radically genuine conversation. Jennifer Miller (01:28:56.545) Thank you so much.