Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #129 How Long Can We Bubble Wrap Our Kids?

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#129 How Long Can We Bubble Wrap Our Kids? · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: poor parent who just wants answers. Now, my name is
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: doctor Justin Coulson, and today once again I'm joined by
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  Speaker 1: Luke and Suzie, your husband and wife radio team. They
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: have three young boys, and the conversation just doesn't seem
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  Speaker 1: to be going away about this content that pops up
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  Speaker 1: on social media from time to time that is so
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  Speaker 1: damaging for our children. Instead of talking about the specifics,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: as I have done on the podcast a few times,
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  Speaker 1: we're going to have a slightly more general conversation about
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  Speaker 1: how we're supposed to deal with these social media challenges.
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  Speaker 2: Doctor Justin Colson, always good to talk to you.
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  Speaker 1: How are you really nice to be with you? Luke Hello,
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  Speaker 1: Susie Hello.
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  Speaker 2: Now. We know that social media has its pros and
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  Speaker 2: its cons, and recently we saw a big story going
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  Speaker 2: around about a particular con there's material and content that
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  Speaker 2: is targeted towards children that is just not healthy for
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: them and our role as parents. I guess sometimes is
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: we've either got two extremes. We're either in too hard
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: and we don't let them look at anything ever until
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  Speaker 2: they're twenty nine, or we kind of just go, oh,
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  Speaker 2: they'll be fine, and back off a little too much.
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  Speaker 2: What's the nice, healthy middle ground for us to find
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  Speaker 2: good balance in helping children navigate this whole social media
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  Speaker 2: world in a safe way.
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  Speaker 1: There's a model that I think is helpful for most parents,
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  Speaker 1: and that is that when children are young, we need
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  Speaker 1: to cocoon them. We want to bubble wrap them, fairy
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  Speaker 1: floss them, you know, keep them safe. And everyone says, oh,
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  Speaker 1: we don't need these bubble wrapped kids, but when they're little,
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  Speaker 1: we actually do need bubble wrapped kids. We want to
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  Speaker 1: make sure that they feel that the world is safe
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  Speaker 1: and secure, and that means that we ensure that they're
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  Speaker 1: not exposed to content that could be damaging, that could
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  Speaker 1: create trauma, that could make them feel like the world
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  Speaker 1: is not a safe place. That's healthy. Now, it's important
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: as they grow that we start to explain why we're
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  Speaker 1: doing what we're doing and give them opportunities to stretch
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  Speaker 1: their wings where they can. So that might mean that
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: we're not going to give you kids access unfettered to Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok, Facebook, Twitter,
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  Speaker 1: because you're eight or you're four, or whatever it might be.
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  Speaker 1: But what it does mean is that we can say, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: of course, you guys can play on screens and devices
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  Speaker 1: in ways that we're going to work with you on
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  Speaker 1: to make sure that you're feeling safe. As they get older, though,
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  Speaker 1: we move from cocooning them into that reasoned cocooning where
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  Speaker 1: we're explaining why we're cocooning them, and then we move
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  Speaker 1: into something called pre arming, and pre arming basically means
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  Speaker 1: pretty soon you're going to be old enough to do
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  Speaker 1: this stuff. You know you're nine or ten or eleven
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  Speaker 1: years old, and you know that Instagram is coming, You
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  Speaker 1: know that the opportunity to be on social media is
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  Speaker 1: nearly here. We need to pre arm you. We need
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  Speaker 1: to talk to you about what it's going to be
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  Speaker 1: like and what the rules are and why those rules exist,
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  Speaker 1: and how we're going to continue to monitor and look
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: after your safety once they're on these social platforms, let's
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  Speaker 1: say from age thirteen, which is probably about the age
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  Speaker 1: that most involved parents say Okay, finally you're allowed to
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: because of that United States law about collecting data about
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: young people once they're on we still need to be
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  Speaker 1: involved in both cocooning, reasoned cocooning and pre arming. Conversations.
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  Speaker 1: For example, it might be okay for your children to
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  Speaker 1: be on Instagram, but you're going to cocoon them from
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  Speaker 1: a whole lot of influences by saying to them it's
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  Speaker 1: okay to be here, but not to follow X, Y,
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  Speaker 1: and Z. You're only allowed to follow people that you know.
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  Speaker 1: You're only so we're still cocooning them with lots of reasoning,
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  Speaker 1: and we're pre arming them by saying, why don't you
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  Speaker 1: make some decisions and we can have a conversation about
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  Speaker 1: why you want to follow these people, or you know,
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  Speaker 1: as you get older, we're going to let you start
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  Speaker 1: to use TikTok or Snapchat or maybe some of the
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: other things that are for kids who are older. Again,
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  Speaker 1: we need to make sure that you're prepared for that
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  Speaker 1: by being pre armed. But then we move, once they're
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  Speaker 1: around fourteen or so into what we call reasoned deference.
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  Speaker 1: That is, the kids come to us and they say
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  Speaker 1: I want to do this, and we say, well, you're
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  Speaker 1: only a few years off being an adult. Now what
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  Speaker 1: do you think is the best thing to do? And
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  Speaker 1: they say, well, I think I should be allowed to
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  Speaker 1: do this, and you say, well, let's talk about that.
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  Speaker 1: For a bit, So you go through a reasoned process
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  Speaker 1: where you're deferring to them until finally they're around seventeen
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  Speaker 1: eighteen years of age and you defer to them, you say, well,
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  Speaker 1: guess what, you're a grown up. Now you get to choose.
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  Speaker 1: We're here if you want to talk about it. So
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  Speaker 1: that model, i think, is the model that we might
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  Speaker 1: use when it comes to kids and their access to
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  Speaker 1: what's happening on screens and social media. Do we need
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  Speaker 1: to be cocooning them, do we need to be pre
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  Speaker 1: arming them, or are we able to start to defer
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  Speaker 1: to them and their judgment.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: And yet, strangely, under any of those comments justin you
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  Speaker 3: never said under my house, it's my rules. I'm just
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  Speaker 3: really really shocked by that. I'll let you respond to
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  Speaker 3: my quip because I can see you want to well. Well.
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  Speaker 1: Last week, after this thing went viral, the Prime Minister
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  Speaker 1: commented that parents should be removing devices from their children.
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  Speaker 1: And I'm not going to be political about this. I
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  Speaker 1: have no political blood in me at all. I'm not
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  Speaker 1: interested in political conversations. What I am interested in is
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  Speaker 1: what's going to give us the best outcome for our children.
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  Speaker 1: And while I'm sure that the Prime ministers have the
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  Speaker 1: very best of intentions. When we start saying to our children,
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  Speaker 1: you disobey rules and I take the phone off you,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: what happens is they start to say, well, I'll just
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  Speaker 1: make sure that you don't catch me disobeying the rules.
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  Speaker 1: I'll follow your rules on my device. But when I'm
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  Speaker 1: hanging out at my friend's house, when I'm on the
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  Speaker 1: school bus, when i'm in the school playground, that's when
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  Speaker 1: I do whatever i want, and I'll use their devices
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  Speaker 1: so you can't catch me.
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  Speaker 3: So on the top of that, it says that if
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  Speaker 3: ever I do do the wrong thing, I'm not going
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  Speaker 3: to fess up to it because you're got to take
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  Speaker 3: the device, so I'm going to hide it as much
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  Speaker 3: as i can spot on.
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  Speaker 1: So that approach that my house, my rules, my way
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  Speaker 1: of a high way approach. It kind of makes sense,
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  Speaker 1: especially when parents are in fight or flight mode. They're
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  Speaker 1: freaking out. They've heard on the news that this traumatic
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  Speaker 1: incident has been streamed on all kinds of social media
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  Speaker 1: platforms and they want to protect their children. Therefore, they say,
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  Speaker 1: you need to delete the app, you need to hand
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  Speaker 1: in your device. Not going to work because even if
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  Speaker 1: they do, all that happens is that they start to
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  Speaker 1: resent us and they get so curious about what they're
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  Speaker 1: missing out on, and they might even go and look
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  Speaker 1: for it in a place that's not so safe. So
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  Speaker 1: I think as parents, we've got the responsibility to say, hey,
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  Speaker 1: let's have a sit down, gentle conversation. Let's work out
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  Speaker 1: the best way forward so that we can all feel
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  Speaker 1: good about the decisions you're going to make.
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  Speaker 3: In this whole scenario that we're referring to, the Prime
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  Speaker 3: Minister's got involved because there was an incident. There was
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  Speaker 3: a moment and many of us as parents are freaking out, going, Okay,
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  Speaker 3: we don't want to draw attention to it if our
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  Speaker 3: kids don't have their attention already drawn to it. And
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  Speaker 3: yet we don't want to assume that because they haven't
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  Speaker 3: said anything, that they haven't had attention drawn to it,
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  Speaker 3: and we don't want to leave it's a chance that
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  Speaker 3: they can accidentally see it, even if I think they
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  Speaker 3: haven't accidentally seen it. And so, as you can tell
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  Speaker 3: by my just rambling there in our heads, there was
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  Speaker 3: a whole lot of we can try and do the
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  Speaker 3: right thing, but feel like we've done the wrong thing.
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  Speaker 3: How do we navigate that space where there's a strong
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  Speaker 3: possibility but we don't know for sure whether they've been exposed.
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  Speaker 1: I can almost hear the fear and the exasperation and
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  Speaker 1: the frustration in your comment, Luke. It's like, but what
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  Speaker 1: are we supposed to do? We can't win either way.
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  Speaker 1: If we don't say anything, they might be exposed and
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  Speaker 1: then we won't know. But if we do say something,
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  Speaker 1: they might go and find it and be exposed to
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  Speaker 1: do this. The response is as follows. There is consistently
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  Speaker 1: always scary, horrible, terrible, no good, very bad things on
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  Speaker 1: the Internet, and especially on social media platforms. There are
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  Speaker 1: people with horrible motivations who get access to this content
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  Speaker 1: and even hide and embed the content in otherwise innocent,
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  Speaker 1: pure good places. It's just it's devastating, it's frankly, it's disgusting.
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  Speaker 1: It appalls me. But this is the world that we
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  Speaker 1: live in. And to threaten your children and say you
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  Speaker 1: know what, you can't have social media because of it,
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  Speaker 1: that means that they do miss out on all of
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  Speaker 1: the things that really do matter to them, which means
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  Speaker 1: that we may end up turning them against us and
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  Speaker 1: having them not listen to us at all, because the
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  Speaker 1: reality is many, many, many children have not been exposed
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  Speaker 1: to this traumatic issue, and had there not been such
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  Speaker 1: a big media brew haha, viewer again would have been
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  Speaker 1: exposed to it. So it really is just such a
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  Speaker 1: such a tricky thing. I really think that the best
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  Speaker 1: thing to do, Luke is have a gentle conversation with
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  Speaker 1: the kids and say I'm worried and as a result,
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  Speaker 1: we need to come up with a solution that's going
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  Speaker 1: to work, and sometimes we need to put protective measures
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  Speaker 1: in place if we don't. And I heard this analogy
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  Speaker 1: just recently on another podcast, and I thought, I've got
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  Speaker 1: to use that. That is so good. If we don't
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  Speaker 1: do this, if we don't sit down with our kids
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  Speaker 1: and talk to them about establishing boundaries that work, it's
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  Speaker 1: like saying to them, you know, when we go for
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  Speaker 1: driving the car this afternoon, we're going to put our
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: seat belts on, but we're not going to ask you
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  Speaker 1: to put yours on. You don't need to wear one
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  Speaker 1: because you'll be fine. Now, we wouldn't do that in
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  Speaker 1: a car, and we shouldn't be doing that on social media.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, love it. I sat down with them by the way,
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  Speaker 3: and I went okay, and I just put a little
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  Speaker 3: feeler out there to say, you know, there's something I've
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  Speaker 3: been going around on the internet. Have you heard about it?
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  Speaker 3: And they all said yes, they had that had conversations
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  Speaker 3: at school. They said, we haven't seen anything, we haven't
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  Speaker 3: seen what it's about. We talked about the fact that
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: without highlighting what was in it, we just went, you know,
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: it's probably something that no human, no adult or child,
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  Speaker 3: should be watching or be exposed to, because it could
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: be very upsetting, and I don't want you to be upset.
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  Speaker 3: So we talked about what the response would be, and
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: our decision together was, as they watch a YouTube video
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  Speaker 3: or something that is approved by mommy or Daddy, which
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: all their channels are, then we'll just make sure we
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: don't click on anything that we don't know, and we
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  Speaker 3: don't allow it to roll into a video or someone
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  Speaker 3: that we don't know. Let's just protect ourselves from accidentally
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  Speaker 3: seeing something that we don't want to see.
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  Speaker 1: You guys are fortunate your children are under the age
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  Speaker 1: of ten, right, so once you get to around that
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  Speaker 1: twelve thirteen mark, there can be a shift and a
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  Speaker 1: lot surprised that you had a good experience with that,
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  Speaker 1: because that's how kids are pretty I know some people
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  Speaker 1: are thinking my children aren't compliant and they're under ten,
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  Speaker 1: but as a general rule, as a parent, you can
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: kind of say, well, this is what I want you
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  Speaker 1: to do, and they say wouldn't and you say, well,
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  Speaker 1: you will because I'm your parent, and they kind of
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  Speaker 1: They're more likely to be compliant there, Whereas once they
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: get to about eleven, twelve, thirteen, all of a sudden,
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  Speaker 1: it's like they wake up on morning they're like no,
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  Speaker 1: and you say no, I'm the parent, and you will,
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  Speaker 1: and they say no, no, I won't, and I reckon
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: if you've got older kids, there's a couple of things
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: to quickly bear in mind. And I know that our
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: time is short now, so let's wrap this up. First
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  Speaker 1: of all, children are seeing it. I'm hearing far too
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  Speaker 1: many stories, and they are being traumatized by this kind
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  Speaker 1: of content. There's been this kind of content before. It
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: will happen again. Our job is to do our best
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  Speaker 1: to help them to stay away from it because it
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: is affecting them. They are also showing it to one
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  Speaker 1: another because they get some sort of social capital out
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  Speaker 1: of it, you know, I'm the cool kid. Look what
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  Speaker 1: I found, and now I'm going to show everyone else
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  Speaker 1: as well. We want to connect them to humanity, we
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: want to connect them to empathy. There's nothing hilarious about it.
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  Speaker 1: Something very very sad and tragic about it. Nothing hilarious though,
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  Speaker 1: and so our job then becomes, let's imagine for a
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: minute that we're related to the person involved in this
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  Speaker 1: live stream. Let's imagine for a minute what life must
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: be like for them. Let's imagine for a minute how
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: we would be talking about this if it happened to
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: somebody that we know. Would we be shiting it? Would
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: we be talking about how funny it is? And I reckon,
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  Speaker 1: most kids in those circumstances are going to go pretty
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: quiet and recognize yeah, no, probably not. We want to
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  Speaker 1: help them to have that empathy, and then we can
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  Speaker 1: probably have some more sensible conversations about ways to keep
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: everybody safe online.
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  Speaker 2: Beautiful doctor Justin Colson, thanks for having this chat with us.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: It's pretty tough stuff to try and navigate, but we
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: appreciate that you're there to support us and guide us
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: through it.
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  Speaker 1: Or thank you so much, Thanks Susie, Thanks Luke. Well,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: it's a tough topic, but thanks so much for listening.
• 11:31
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• 11:33
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• 11:39
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• 11:41
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• 11:49
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• 11:51
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