Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Improving Surgical Care Through Technology and AI with Dr. Kevin Campbell

Transcript

Improving Surgical Care Through Technology and AI with Dr. Kevin Campbell · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

• 0:02
  - There's a small circle of people who truly
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  - understand what it takes to lead a health
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  - system right now. The decisions are enormous.
• 0:08
  - The variables are constantly shifting, and the stakes
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  - of getting a call wrong don't stay contained.
• 0:14
  - That's not a complaint. It's a structural reality.
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  - And it's why the most effective c suite
• 0:19
  - leaders are deliberate about where they go to
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  - pressure test their thinking.
• 0:22
  - Becker's fourteenth annual CEO and CFO roundtable
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  - brings together more than 1,500
• 0:28
  - executive level attendees
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  - and nearly 400 speakers for four days built
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  - around growth, financial sustainability,
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  - workforce strategy, and the leadership questions that don't
• 0:38
  - have easy answers.
• 0:39
  - Join us November second through the fifth in
• 0:41
  - Chicago.
• 0:42
  - For the agenda and event details,
• 0:45
  - visit beckershospitalreview.com
• 0:47
  - and click on the events tab in the
• 0:49
  - upper right.
• 0:50
  - This is Scott Becker with the Becker's Healthcare
• 0:53
  - Podcast.
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  - Thrilled today to visit with a brilliant orthopedic
• 0:58
  - surgeon,
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  - went to University of Wisconsin,
• 1:01
  - trained at Rush, also trained at University of
• 1:03
  - Utah,
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  - and has built a great practice in Wisconsin,
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  - and also an entrepreneur.
• 1:08
  - He's built a company called Streamed. And we'll
• 1:11
  - talk about both the entrepreneurial journey, the journey
• 1:13
  - as a surgeon.
• 1:14
  - We'll ask him who the brightest
• 1:16
  - sort of sibling is in his family,
• 1:19
  - about the Packers beer rivalry, and a lot
• 1:21
  - more. Doctor Campbell, can you take a moment
• 1:24
  - to introduce yourself and tell us a little
• 1:25
  - bit about yourself and about streams?
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  - Yeah. Thank you very much, Scott. Certainly appreciate
• 1:31
  - the opportunity to be on today.
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  - I sort of wear two hats.
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  - I'm an orthopedic surgeon.
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  - As you mentioned, did my residency at Rush
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  - and then a fellowship in hip and knee
• 1:41
  - replacement at the University of Utah in Salt
• 1:43
  - Lake City, and now I'm back as a
• 1:45
  - private practice orthopedic surgeon
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  - in Wisconsin where, I would say most of
• 1:49
  - my, orthopedic work is in the ambulatory
• 1:52
  - care center. We, we do a lot of
• 1:55
  - outpatient knee and hip replacement,
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  - and so really that's, that's the type of
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  - work I do. I'm president of our orthopedic
• 2:01
  - group
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  - and, you know, certainly take that responsibility
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  - very seriously.
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  - In addition to that full time clinical practice,
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  - you know, I'm also the CEO and, cofounder
• 2:11
  - of Streamed, which is our health care technology
• 2:14
  - application,
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  - that we funded in 2016.
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  - You know, Streamed itself, kinda was born out
• 2:20
  - of this
• 2:21
  - intention to help patients prepare and recover from
• 2:24
  - surgery in an easier way. At the time,
• 2:27
  - we were resident doctors and, you know, we
• 2:29
  - just noticed that patients were having trouble remembering
• 2:32
  - the right things to do as they prepared
• 2:34
  - and recovered.
• 2:35
  - And we kinda thought, you know, is there
• 2:37
  - a better way to get the information
• 2:39
  - rather than just sort of handing them a
• 2:41
  - set of of paper instructions?
• 2:44
  - And sort of in this, like, minimalistic
• 2:46
  - viewpoint, we said, you know, what would it
• 2:48
  - would it be good for patients to get
• 2:50
  - text messages kinda that just arrived onto their
• 2:53
  - phone? Now I'm talking like a traditional text
• 2:55
  - message that you exchange with their
• 2:57
  - friends, not like a message that you get
• 2:59
  - through downloading a portal or logging into an
• 3:01
  - an application.
• 3:03
  - And we sort of took the path of
• 3:04
  - least resistance moving forward because we wanted all
• 3:07
  - patients, no matter their background, to have access
• 3:09
  - to that information.
• 3:10
  - And so, really, that that idea was formalized
• 3:13
  - into our company, Streamed. And, you know, we've
• 3:15
  - sort of pulled the technology levers
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  - that existed,
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  - throughout the inception ten years ago till now
• 3:22
  - to to create what what the product is
• 3:24
  - today.
• 3:26
  - And and take a moment as to how
• 3:28
  - do you break down your time between being
• 3:31
  - a practical orthopedic physician with a great, great
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  - practice
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  - and also being an entrepreneur.
• 3:36
  - And is that,
• 3:37
  - you know, accretive to your life balance versus
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  - not? Or does it help you sort of
• 3:42
  - stay energized and excited?
• 3:44
  - Talk about both how you manage both
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  - and
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  - how it keeps you fresh
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  - versus burnt doing a couple different things.
• 3:53
  - Yeah. I think that they complement each other
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  - quite well.
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  - Certainly, they're busy weeks,
• 3:58
  - where you kinda fit it in. Of course,
• 4:00
  - clinical care is typically per performed, you know,
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  - I I don't know, seven till 04:30.
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  - And then there's just opportunities
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  - either throughout the day, mornings, late nights, weekends,
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  - where you can kinda augment that with with
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  - my responsibilities with with Stream. And and so
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  - I think it's a nice balance. One certainly
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  - helps and leverages off the other. Being a
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  - surgeon, you get the perspective of, like, what
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  - it is to to live and work in
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  - in clinical medicine and and what the real
• 4:27
  - challenges are, and it's it's not this hyperbole
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  - of, like, what what would a physician want.
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  - We actually know what they want. We know
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  - what the clinics want. They want a well
• 4:35
  - functioning clinic with least amount of overhead, and
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  - I think that that carries through to all
• 4:39
  - systems. And so we take that that lens
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  - of which we see clinical medicine and we
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  - apply it to Streamed. And then Streamed is
• 4:45
  - just really a collection of features
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  - that help physicians and patients kinda meet meet
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  - the mission of of getting through, getting through
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  - a surgical journey,
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  - in the best possible way.
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  - Thank you. And let me ask you this
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  - question.
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  - So many
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  - surgeons,
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  - orthopods,
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  - physicians
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  - have this entrepreneurial bent.
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  - Give us a couple of the lessons that
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  - you've learned
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  - in in both being an orthopedic surgeon, but
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  - also in this entrepreneurial
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  - journey.
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  - A couple thoughts, couple lessons from that perspective.
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  - Well, I think traditionally,
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  - maybe some health care innovations on the digital
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  - side have come through
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  - either mandates that are pushed down from from
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  - the government or,
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  - ways to increase revenue or or or some
• 5:36
  - other kind of level. And I think physicians
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  - themselves are are are in great positions
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  - to tackle problems that affect the themselves
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  - and then, rightfully so,
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  - affect the system at large. So I think
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  - physicians are in a great spot to leverage
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  - their unique experience to work on some of
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  - these technical solutions and probably put forth
• 5:58
  - the best in class solution
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  - because of of just that experience, that training,
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  - and then, you know, ultimately being the the
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  - solely responsible for how a patient does as
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  - as they go through some of these procedures.
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  - I think
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  - advice would be anyone who's interested, you know,
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  - just get started. Identify a problem that that
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  - truly is something that affects you. It affects
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  - you on an everyday basis and then make
• 6:21
  - small iterative changes kinda every day. And I
• 6:23
  - think ultimately, you know, just like anything that
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  - we do, you gotta start somewhere. And if
• 6:28
  - you and if you sort of apply these,
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  - like, you know, small iterative processes over time,
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  - it it can create something, you know, really
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  - of value and,
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  - don't get caught up by the sense that
• 6:38
  - it's too big of a mountain to climb,
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  - because I think that the gratification that comes
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  - out of working something you're really interested in
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  - solving
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  - is worth it.
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  - And, doctor Campbell, let me ask you this
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  - question,
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  - and you don't have to answer this if
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  - you're not comfortable with it. Okay? Let me
• 6:54
  - know if you're ready.
• 6:55
  - I'm ready.
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  - Alright. So here here's the deal. I know
• 6:59
  - that your parents raised, at least I know
• 7:02
  - of, a brilliant lawyer and a brilliant doctor.
• 7:06
  - The lawyer, of course,
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  - is a lawyer helps to hold democracy
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  - together.
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  - Do your parents ever think, oh my god,
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  - we're so proud we raised a lawyer
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  - and all our son does is fix knees
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  - and hips while she's holding democracy together.
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  - Is that ever a challenging situation
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  - in the household
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  - that she is, you know, so important to
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  - democracy
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  - and you're an orthopedic
• 7:32
  - surgeon? You know, is that hard? Is that
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  - or how does that work out in the
• 7:35
  - family?
• 7:36
  - Yeah. I think, I think we have some
• 7:37
  - very interesting discussions and, the, the the acumen
• 7:41
  - that Alyssa has in terms of her ability
• 7:43
  - to,
• 7:45
  - maintain a positional argument,
• 7:47
  - and and maintain maintain a a viewpoint, I
• 7:49
  - think, is extremely strong, and I think, that
• 7:52
  - that carries a lot of value.
• 7:54
  - I I definitely think we know who made
• 7:57
  - the intelligent choice of of becoming a, you
• 7:59
  - know, sort of a a significantly
• 8:02
  - more successful
• 8:03
  - attorney than maybe her
• 8:05
  - carpentry brother. But, you know, I try to
• 8:08
  - hold my own, and,
• 8:10
  - my my parents are very receptive to each
• 8:12
  - of us kinda continuing to pursue the things
• 8:14
  - that are that are interesting to us. But
• 8:16
  - but there's no doubt about it. There's much
• 8:18
  - more intellectual prowess
• 8:20
  - in in in the work that Alyssa does
• 8:22
  - versus, you know, I'm I'm kinda this,
• 8:25
  - a carpenter for for knee and hips. Yes.
• 8:27
  - That's absolutely right.
• 8:29
  - We we we don't want you to downplay
• 8:31
  - what you do at all. We just didn't
• 8:32
  - know if it was challenging in the family.
• 8:35
  - But let me ask this question. She raves
• 8:37
  - about you. Was she always a nice sister
• 8:40
  - or was she tough on you younger? Who's
• 8:42
  - the older? Who's younger?
• 8:43
  - And and what was that like? Would was
• 8:46
  - she argumentative?
• 8:47
  - Did that lead her to become a lawyer?
• 8:49
  - Or were you guys always pretty close? Because
• 8:51
  - she raves about you. Do you rave about
• 8:53
  - her equally, or are you a tougher older
• 8:55
  - brother or younger brother? Yeah. So we're, we're
• 8:58
  - eighteen months apart. I'm the older brother, so
• 9:00
  - we're close in age. I think growing up,
• 9:03
  - we had a really good relationship. Our parents,
• 9:05
  - really instilled that type of,
• 9:08
  - sort of value in us. You know, certainly,
• 9:11
  - just being, eighteen months older, she's always been
• 9:14
  - a very smart person. Went into kindergarten probably,
• 9:16
  - you know, a a grade earlier than than
• 9:19
  - than maybe her birth date,
• 9:21
  - would suggest. And so she's just been one
• 9:23
  - year behind me, which meant that, you know,
• 9:25
  - we did high school together.
• 9:26
  - We both went to Madison for undergrad, and
• 9:29
  - so she was there just a year later.
• 9:31
  - And, you know, there there there were times
• 9:33
  - where it's like, you know, don't tell me
• 9:35
  - what to do, those sorts of things. And
• 9:36
  - I I think that's totally normal. And I
• 9:38
  - think it did set her up for such
• 9:39
  - a successful career as an attorney because she
• 9:42
  - was really standing up for herself, which which
• 9:44
  - I encourage her to do. But,
• 9:46
  - yeah, she's she's fantastic. I'm I'm so happy
• 9:48
  - she says those things about me. I I
• 9:50
  - say the same things about her. You know,
• 9:52
  - our family vacations are still including her and,
• 9:55
  - we, you know, we all get together, I
• 9:57
  - would say, at least monthly, if not faster,
• 10:00
  - or or more more quickly than that. So
• 10:03
  - it it's just been great. I mean, she's
• 10:04
  - just done so well for herself at at
• 10:06
  - your firm, and and it's just it's just
• 10:09
  - great.
• 10:10
  - That's fantastic. Let me bring you back to
• 10:12
  - Orthopedics for a moment. One of the most
• 10:15
  - interesting things that you're watching Orthopedics,
• 10:17
  - one of the most interesting trends, and and
• 10:19
  - what are you most focused on and excited
• 10:20
  - about currently
• 10:22
  - as you balance both practice and entrepreneurial efforts?
• 10:25
  - Where are you most focused and excited? And
• 10:27
  - what trends are you watching in orthopedics?
• 10:30
  - I mean, I I I definitely have a
• 10:32
  - a focus on anything AI related in medicine
• 10:35
  - and orthopedics. So I'll file things like,
• 10:38
  - AI scribes in the clinical setting. I'll look
• 10:40
  - at AI in revenue cycle management. I'll look
• 10:42
  - at AI in in just the operating room
• 10:44
  - and what's available to us for for technologies.
• 10:47
  - So those are things I'm always I'm always
• 10:49
  - interested in. You know, on the on the
• 10:51
  - orthopedic side, you know, certainly I get energized
• 10:54
  - about anything clinical, but, you know, you have
• 10:57
  - to wear this this this business owner hat
• 10:59
  - as well. And so I'm following things like
• 11:02
  - site neutral payments,
• 11:04
  - the push towards outpatient
• 11:06
  - orthopedic care, specifically knee and hip replacement and
• 11:09
  - and redos or revisions,
• 11:10
  - and then also just
• 11:12
  - the reimbursement
• 11:13
  - cycle that's in place. There's obviously been this
• 11:16
  - migration of physicians out of private practice towards
• 11:19
  - hospital employment. I think we're at a little
• 11:21
  - bit of a turnaround where there are there
• 11:23
  - are opportunities to move physicians back to to
• 11:26
  - private practice if it's if it's set up
• 11:28
  - in a in a good way. And so
• 11:30
  - those are kind of the things that I'm
• 11:31
  - just naturally,
• 11:33
  - interested in following as, as I kinda wear
• 11:36
  - these two hats both as an orthopedic surgeon
• 11:38
  - and then, the the the CEO of a
• 11:41
  - of a health care technology company.
• 11:44
  - Kevin, I'm gonna ask you a few thirty
• 11:47
  - to forty second questions, and and I just
• 11:48
  - wanna get your responses to each of these
• 11:50
  - if that's okay.
• 11:52
  - Yeah. Okay. So so first, I'm gonna ask
• 11:54
  - you
• 11:56
  - any sort of thoughts or insights on either
• 11:59
  - Charles Busch, Joseph, or Greg Shannon?
• 12:02
  - Any thoughts there?
• 12:04
  - Well, what immediately comes to mind is doctor
• 12:06
  - Bush Joseph has had a great career. He's
• 12:09
  - achieved, you know, the penultimate,
• 12:11
  - accomplishments as just an orthopedic surgeon.
• 12:14
  - He's done everything in in the the surgical
• 12:17
  - sports medicine practice, becoming
• 12:20
  - a president of all the prestigious organizations, including
• 12:22
  - being managing partner at Midwest Orthopedics for, you
• 12:26
  - know, his tenure, at least ten years there,
• 12:28
  - and he's just done a fantastic job. And
• 12:29
  - and and and Rush would not be what
• 12:32
  - it is today without him and the orthopedics
• 12:35
  - division.
• 12:35
  - Greg Shannon is equally powerful just in a
• 12:38
  - different way. He's a Michigan grad, did a
• 12:40
  - fantastic job there,
• 12:42
  - followed his wife, Monica, out to her first
• 12:45
  - job in, San Francisco where he got his
• 12:48
  - MBA from Stanford Business School. He's extremely well
• 12:51
  - connected. He does his own independent consulting now
• 12:54
  - and just does a lot of great things
• 12:55
  - for early to mid stage companies, and he
• 12:58
  - he and he and, doctor Busch Joseph are
• 13:01
  - kinda developing a little bit of a one
• 13:03
  - two punch, and, I I I wish they've
• 13:05
  - done a lot of great things for me
• 13:06
  - individually and for our company, Streamed, and and
• 13:09
  - I think that they'll just do great things
• 13:10
  - together too.
• 13:12
  - Both brilliant and really good people.
• 13:15
  - Couldn't agree more. Next question.
• 13:17
  - I take it growing up in Wisconsin. One,
• 13:20
  - I'm disappointed to hear you say nice things
• 13:22
  - such nice things about the University of Michigan,
• 13:24
  - but it's okay. But but growing up in
• 13:27
  - Wisconsin,
• 13:29
  - Green Bay Packer fan, there there's two things.
• 13:32
  - Packers versus beers this year, and I've heard
• 13:34
  - this phrase from Wisconsin people, and I don't
• 13:37
  - know what it means.
• 13:38
  - It it was something that they used to
• 13:40
  - call a fib, and I didn't know what
• 13:42
  - a fib was. I I was wondering if
• 13:43
  - you had any insight
• 13:45
  - on Packers beers this year and this phrase
• 13:48
  - fib, which I can't quite make make out
• 13:51
  - what that means when Wisconsin people call Illinois
• 13:53
  - people fibs.
• 13:55
  - Yeah. I mean, the the the Packers bears
• 13:57
  - rivalry is something that has always been,
• 14:01
  - interesting to follow.
• 14:02
  - Recently, it's become so intense that it's it's
• 14:06
  - it's almost a little bit uncomfortable watching them
• 14:08
  - play each other, but obviously,
• 14:11
  - you know, green and yellow all the way.
• 14:12
  - And, and so we just gotta make sure
• 14:14
  - that my my kids stay aligned. We're we
• 14:17
  - live in Green Bay, and and so the
• 14:19
  - the kids and everybody were at training camp
• 14:21
  - yesterday. And and, I mean, what the Packers
• 14:23
  - have done for our organization, our community has
• 14:25
  - been outstanding,
• 14:27
  - way more than I think the the Bears
• 14:28
  - have done potentially on the ground. But Titletown
• 14:31
  - District has been fantastic,
• 14:33
  - and,
• 14:33
  - I'm really proud of of of the Packers.
• 14:36
  - I I've never heard, the word fib. I
• 14:38
  - don't know what you're what you're alluding to
• 14:40
  - there. You you you may have to, you
• 14:43
  - know, get on get it online and and
• 14:44
  - Google it, but I I've never heard that
• 14:46
  - term.
• 14:47
  - Fair enough. Fair enough. Do you, do you
• 14:49
  - live in Green Bay itself or De Pere,
• 14:51
  - or where do people live in Green Bay?
• 14:53
  - Yeah. You know,
• 14:55
  - Green Bay has changed over time. We do
• 14:57
  - live in Green Bay. We live in a
• 14:58
  - a neighborhood called Allouais, a historically progressive neighborhood,
• 15:02
  - and, that's their kinda tagline. And and and
• 15:04
  - we love it. We have a great, support
• 15:06
  - system, a lot of great neighbors with young
• 15:08
  - families.
• 15:09
  - And so, it's been great for us. De
• 15:11
  - Pere, right alongside Green Bay,
• 15:13
  - equally,
• 15:15
  - enjoyable.
• 15:16
  - I think there's a lot of great things
• 15:17
  - about about De Pere too, and and we're
• 15:19
  - we're we we share our border with De
• 15:21
  - Pere. So our family likes to spend time
• 15:23
  - here. We're water skiers. We'll get out on
• 15:25
  - the Fox River and and slalom, and then,
• 15:27
  - you know, Door County is just about an
• 15:30
  - hour from us, and that's where we grew
• 15:31
  - up, Alyssa and I, in Sturgeon Bay. And
• 15:34
  - we go we go up to, Door County
• 15:36
  - each the weekends that we can to recreate
• 15:38
  - up there, whether that's camping or sailing. We're
• 15:40
  - big we're big sailors, and so,
• 15:42
  - that that's what we do.
• 15:44
  - Green Bay is actually a fantastic town. I
• 15:46
  - spent so much time up there. It almost
• 15:48
  - should be like it's like an unsung jewel
• 15:50
  - in our country. It's a wonderful, wonderful community
• 15:53
  - in town.
• 15:54
  - Doctor Campbell, what a pleasure to visit with
• 15:57
  - you. Amazing what you've done with Streamed. Congratulations.
• 16:00
  - Amazing what you've done with an orthopedic practice.
• 16:02
  - People regard you really, really highly as an
• 16:05
  - orthopedic surgeon
• 16:06
  - and and just as well as an entrepreneur.
• 16:08
  - So congratulations on your success, and thank you
• 16:11
  - so much for taking the time with us
• 16:12
  - on the Beckers HealthCare podcast.
• 16:14
  - Yeah. My pleasure. And thank you to you
• 16:15
  - for all you're doing. You're a strong advocate
• 16:17
  - for for the health care system, and, thanks
• 16:20
  - for having me.