Latest / The Bold Lounge / Lisa Bragg: The Bold Brag- Leading, Claiming & Celebrating Our Success

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Lisa Bragg: The Bold Brag- Leading, Claiming & Celebrating Our Success · The Bold Lounge

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge podcast.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: My name is Leigh Burgess and I will be your host.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on bold journeys and made a positive impact in the world.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Every week, we'll hear from someone who has taken a leap or embarked on an extraordinary journey.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: In addition to hearing their stories, we'll also learn about their bold growth mindset that they use to make things happen.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Whether they face challenges or doubts along the way, they persisted and ultimately achieved their goals.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: These impactful stories will leave you feeling motivated and inspired to pursue your own bold journey.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be freed.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Tune in and get ready to be inspired.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Today I have Lisa Bragg, and Lisa Bragg has literally written the book on how to talk about success Her book Bragging Rights how to Talk About your Work Using Purposeful Self-Promotion, released in May 2023.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: She is a speaker, advisor and professional mentor.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Lisa is the founder of Media Face, a Toronto-based content and consulting firm.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: She was also a TV reporter and anchor for 15 years.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Hi, thank you.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Great to be here.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so excited to have you and excited to jump into your definition of bold.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: What is your definition of bold and what does it look like in your world?
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so glad you like that word too.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: So it's all, you're all bold, but for me it's.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: It's really I'll be in the audacity camp.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: It's the being audacious, it's going first, and I even include a little bit in my book, so I'm just going to jump right into it.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: But it's like one must go before others, be determined and exacting and let your intelligence direct your life.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Act with audacity.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: I didn't write that.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: That is from, if you're a champagne lover, that's from the widow Cluco Vuv Cluco, and she writes about being audacious and that we have to go first sometimes and we have to put ourselves out there and try new things.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: And so she wrote that to her great granddaughter so long ago, and I think it's really one of those great points that allows us to jump off.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: We have to invent the things of tomorrow, and who's it going to start with?
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: And it's going to start with people who are listening to this podcast, right.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: So it's all about, in your mind, being audacious, going first, kind of having the the courage to do it, to just move into it yeah, stepping forward and going, going for it.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: So that's where I am.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, excellent.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: What is a memorable moment of bold for you.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: You know I think I'm I'm frequently bold, but I think it was going back to when I was about 12 years old.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: I was on a game show and my mom is very much not a go out there kind of person, she is very much a homebody and so I really wanted to be on this game show.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: It was called Just Like Mom, and so you had to have your mom with you and I wanted to be on the show.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: So I called up the show people, we got there and I made sure that when the show.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: So I called up the show people, you know, I, we got there and I made sure that when we auditioned to get this kind of role so putting myself out there young, uh, to be on this game show which I did not win, by the way what a fun show.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: Like mom, like what was the show about?
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: I'm curious.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's, it was very silly, cause it was.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: They try to say what commonalities you'd have.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: Like, so if your mom saw a snake, what would she do?
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: And so the most answer would be, well, she'd run away.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: But mine was like, oh, she'd probably try to figure out what that was.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Then they had a cook.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: This is where I lost.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: They had a cooking segment, a baking segment, and I actually I could, back in the day, could make a really good brownie I was good at cookies and baking but so they make you bake.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: But what they also do is make you throw in weird stuff along with it, and so my mom was like this, can't this goop can't be hers.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that goop was mine in the end.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I lost it on us.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Well, that's really bold.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Where do you think your inner boldness came from?
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Well I think it comes from.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: Well, some teachers said do do some things, but I think I don't have the family to they were.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: You know, they're mechanics, they're very much working class people, very good people, but they're really much of the the put your head down, do good work and eventually someone will notice you or just get the paycheck.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: And so I really needed to make sure that I didn't want that.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: I wanted to be part of the knowledge economy.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: I wanted to think about things, put something new out there, and so I think it just started coming to me that I can't just be a hidden gem, that I needed to put myself out there.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: But it took a long journey, and that's what my book goes into is why was I like that of wanting to just, you know, not talk about myself, to actually becoming somebody who is able to, in a strategic way, talk about myself?
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: But I don't know what's a crystallized moment.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: I think it's a journey to really realize that the way the world of work is.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: It took me some time to get there, yeah.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: So you ended up landing in media, which has obviously you promote, you sometimes sell, and you know, obviously you promote, you sometimes sell, you sometimes highlight, amplify, all in media and many more verbs as well.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Did you always plan like through high school and college, was that kind of a goal of yours to end up in media?
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was pretty much from the same time I was on that game show.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: I wanted to be a storyteller.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: You know what it is.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: My parents watched a lot of news, so they watched a lot of news.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: So they watched a lot of news, and so I wanted to be a broadcast journalist from a very young time.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: I said it on that game show and so put my thought to it and said, yes, I'm going to do it.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: And so that's where I did become a journalist and would find I'd go up to people and always looking for that different person to interview.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: I'm also a contrarian in a lot of ways.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: Broadcast media, especially they like to go together to get the same clips, the same interview subjects where they would zig.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: I would zag and try to find different people, not the same old, same old Bob and Jim.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: I would try to find someone else to talk to, and so often she would say to me oh no, not me, talk to someone else down the hall, bob and Jim but I was Ben would hopefully be able to convince her to go on camera with me and to, uh, to get an interview.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: And uh, that was something there too.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: I think that I was like, why don't you want to be on camera?
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: I could.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: It opens doors and I still have the thank you notes of people who did go on camera with me, some of them saying hey, thanks, it opened up new opportunities.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: I got a new job, I got this, I got that.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: And when you do media or podcasts, the opportunities beget the opportunities.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: So the more you do, the more you get.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's power in that Right and sometimes it can be very nerve wracking, or you know, I know recently, you know, linkedin has gone big time.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Video and videos get more play than anything else and some people are trepidatious to actually do video, but I think you know it.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: In itself, it's also a way to meet and understand and I think people get to know you better through video.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: I think there's a really big positive with that.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: So I love that people are thanking you and kind of saying you know, this is this was a great way for me to meet people and and leads to other opportunities as well when you share in that way.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: Lee, just take baby steps with video.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: You don't have to do great big things and you know what.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: We're much more as a come as you are world today, where we don't have to have the, the whole quaffed everything.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: So I think that you know, come as you are is the way to do it, and just putting out short, small snack size content just to get your feet wet and start having courage to it.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: People always want, or I'll do it when I have confidence.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: But it's that step of courage, it's that I'm going to be bold today.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do this 15 seconds.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: I don't care if I stumble, because I'm not.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: You know I, after podcasts, after things like right now in my mind I'm like, oh my goodness, I was laughing so much off the top that it's going to the cackle, is going to be so hard for the listeners to use, like we start getting in our own brain and ruminating and so just saying oh well, and and dismissing it and moving on.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: That's what we can do is just have another step of courage and not ruminate in those small things that we pick up on and that other people probably don't pick up on.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that affects our ability to promote ourselves right and to brag about ourselves.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: So let's jump in, because I love, I want to jump into the book.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: So let's just define bragging first.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: So what is your definition of bragging?
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: So that we start at the same point.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: So bragging does mean to talk about one's success with pride.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: But the reframe is that pride also means justified self love.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: So that's that pat on the back that we can give ourselves, so we can talk about our successes, because it's of service to the world.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: When we talk about success, people then know how to use us, and that's the difference.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: And so I think we get caught up with the word self-aggrandizement, and back in my journalism days that's a $5 word, which would be a $50 word nowadays because it's long, a lot of syllables in it.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: So self-aggrandizement, that's that ickiness, that puffery that I'm better than you, kind of thing that we hear in the world.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: That's where we see it, on social media, where people are showing off and we feel a disconnect with it.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: So that's the challenge is we put things right away, because bragging rights is actually a good thing.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: People are like well, they deserve it, they won this, they did this, they achieved it, they have bragging rights and we put that in a in a positive way.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: But when it comes to the individual, that's when we get a little picky and sticky about what people say, and so often it's about context.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: But I want to give you one thing.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: Bragging used to mean shine, shimmer and bravery, and when I found that out I was like, wow, that's awesome Shine, shimmer and bravery.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: And when I found that, out.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: I was like wow, that's awesome.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: Shine, shimmer and bravery Cause.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: Think about it when we talk about our successes.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: We've been I'm going to use your word We've been bold, we've gone out there and done things, and shine and shimmer is because we're we've done these great things.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: We should shine and shimmer a little bit, because then shine and shimmer attracts more shine and shimmer.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a saying it's just like I choose to shine, like I'm not going to dim my light, I'm not going to be muted so that you feel better.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: You know like I just want to feel confident in my own skin, I want to be me, I want to be authentic, I want, I want that to shine through, not at the cost of anyone, but just like, wow, I did that, I achieved it.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: I, you know, was able to accomplish something, and sometimes that gets a bad rap.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: honestly, yeah, and I just love what you just said, though, because that shine you know so much of it is context-based.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: So that's the thing when I'm, when we're talking to each other, it's like we have so many things in common and what you're saying it's like your audience numbers, all those things Like I'm really happy for you.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: But when you talk about it to somebody who has less than or isn't in your world, meaning that they aren't your peer or ahead of you, they can feel that envy and that off-put and that's where they're like who does she think she is Like that kind of attitude starts to happen.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: But I conducted international research for my book, because a lot of the research that had been done so far on bragging and self promotion that says don't do it, was only done on small American university cohort cohorts.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: So when you're young, you want to fit in, but in this world that we live in now, we want to fit in, yes, but we also need to stand out and add in.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: So the international research showed that 85% of people are cheering you on when you talk about your successes and when you, when, frankly, when you brag, people want to hear those good news stories, because then it sounds like oh, if you can do it, if Lisa can do it, then I can do it why there's nothing really that special, especially when we show the moments along the way and not just the big celebratory milestone at the end when we walk onto our yacht.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: But we show people how we get to the yacht.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: It's like then they and I'm not meaning walking to the yacht, but I'm meaning how we actually collected the assets, collected the thinking, to then get that big prize at the end yeah, I saw a quote yesterday which was everyone is a 10 year overnight success.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: I saw that too, which was everyone is a 10 year overnight success I saw that too.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: So it's just like.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: You know it does take time and I think sometimes along the way, people don't show the journey or, you know, feel comfortable sharing the journey, which is so important.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: So I think that's important for the listeners to hear too.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Like I do think the message is in your mess, meaning like things that don't work well or work out.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Help other people learn also like things that don't work well or work out.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Help other people learn also, be inspired that you have a comeback or you're able to traverse something that was difficult.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: And we all have them, every single one of us, and you just may not know about it as well.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes people assume that things are easy as well.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: You know, when someone talks about accomplishment, I think I'm cheering them on because I'm like, wow, I know what it all took to get to that point.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Like it's not an easy track, you know, regardless of what you're trying to do.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: So I think it's interesting that it still feels maybe uncomfortable to do it.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: So where do you think the discomfort?
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: And I'm going to go there with women particularly to talk about themselves, to talk.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: You know, I had a post where I was like, over the last four years.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: These are the things that I've done, which are really wonderful things, but a lot of work, a lot of things didn't go right for those things to be on this list.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: But it felt uncomfortable when I posted it.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: But I got a lot of positive feedback like, wow, you're inspiring, this is awesome.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Like it was a lot of positive back.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: But I was nervous to post it because I thought, oh, some people are going to get ticked off, some people are going to not like what I said, some people are going to be jealous, some, you know, like name it right, you know I you can fill it in.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: So why does it feel so uncomfortable?
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: And the second part of it is like when will people start to accept that?
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Okay, Today when you hear somebody talking about their successes, you're going to cheer them on.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: You are a great cheerleader and champion, because I've been following you for a while and I just love how you help, and that's this is.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Bragging rights is not a me, me, me game.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: It's really about how we also help other people shine.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: But the challenge is it goes back way back.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: So most of us, long time ago, we lived on farms and we were part of an agricultural society and so our kin, our aunties, our grandmothers would talk about our successes and they would know hey for sure Lee should do this because she's really good at it and keep Lisa away from that.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: So our families knew what we were doing and so we didn't have to talk about our successes so much, unless you're off, you know, being a hunter and gathering, things like that, and then you come back and but then we moved into factories and the era that the factory era put your head down, do good work and eventually someone will notice you.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: You know be so good, they can't ignore you.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: All those things started to come in.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: All those sayings that we have and that we still live by really started in the third industrial revolution, the factory era, and we wanted to go to factories.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Some of us wanted, some of us were forced, but we wanted to go because of the steady paycheck.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: So it was great.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: I just did my work, then I got paid.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: We wanted to just be a cog in the machine, but now we're in the fourth or fifth I don't know which one AI might be able to tell us because it's moving so fast.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: So we're stuck in this knowledge economy.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: We're moving forward really fast, but we have all these really old social norms that are outdated, and so we're stuck in this limbo period where a lot of us are told put your head down, do good work, blah, blah, blah.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: It's the same thing over and over again.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Or bragging violates modesty norms.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: If you're that good, your work would speak for itself.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: But a lot of us aren't in the power positions, or close to power, to be able to say hey, look at my work.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Also, people are really busy, so everyone's off to the next goal, next fire.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: They're not able to say oh, look at you, you've done gold stars for you, and I think that gold star point is one of the things, too, for a lot of us.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: We still I have a 14 year old daughter and we still treat winning when girls win.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: Next time you're at any event and you hear girls winning, they're on the winning team, yay, I won.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: So often some adult will come along and say don't be poor winners.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: And so my daughter was out sailing and they came back.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: They'd won something, don't be poor winners.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: The boys came back in.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: They were just as boisterous, just as excited, and nobody said anything to them.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: They were allowed to carry on and enjoy their success.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: But girls are often taught be communal, give away your success.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: It's.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: You know there's no I in team, but I'm going to tell you there is I in credit, and so we give it away.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: And, yes, I do want us to be.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: I talk about collaboration over competition, because even if we are still, the pie can grow.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: It doesn't have to just be one small pie, it can keep growing.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: There is abundance.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: And so I think we have all those things layered in that really drain us.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: And then we also have all these business periodicals that keep warning us, women especially it's dangerous to self-promote, the penalties are too great, according to the research.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: And again they're pointing to outdated research, a lot of it from 1998.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Like we're in a different world than 1998, for sure.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, in a sense of like how we operate, it's a bit different, for sure.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: It is, it is.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: Do you think it's easier for men to promote themselves than?
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: women.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: I think there's just less penalty.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: You know there's the tall poppy syndrome, where it's been identified a lot for women.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: A friend of mine has done extensive research on it and the tall poppy syndrome is where you have a field and the poppies.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: Any poppy that grows above the other poppy it gets chopped down, like the head gets chopped off.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: And so what that means and it was an Australian term that's now all over the place that people realize yes, we do it to each other is that we tear each other down.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: We don't support each other.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: If we see somebody getting that chair at the table, we will be catty and say things and pull people down.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: And so I think when we do that, if you're that person who's on the receiving end of people talking negatively about you, pulling you down, realize it's on them the cutter and not you and the successful person.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: And so when you are the person who's jealous about someone, are you the person who's going to go and say bad things about them and tear them down, realizing our role in that, where I think men just laugh or they'll ignore it or they'll just say awesome, buddy, high five and move on.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: There's a culture of it and I talk about in the book, like there are certain people who get passes to brag and self-promote all they want.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: And so when you're an author, when you're a podcast host, you do, you're expected to talk about what you've done.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: When you are a celebrity, you know you are definitely supposed to show hey, here's my awesome film, here's my awesome event.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: Look at me, look at me.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: You know it's almost to the strange point.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: But strange thing with celebrities too, is that we also make them even bigger, because when we do social media, we're like, oh, look at this person and look at this person and we share their social posts over and over again, instead of making our friends, local celebrities by sharing their posts.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: So we're part of the amplification game, or we also keep people as hidden gems, and I think that's part of it is so many of us are still hidden gems.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: We're not elevating and sharing the shine with each other enough.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think sometimes that baffles me right.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: The last part that you said that there's so many good pieces of work, impactful work, being done by so many people that people don't even know about.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know you have something that takes off for whatever reason, which is fabulous for them, but it seems to get bigger while the other places you know potentially might not see the light.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: And it's like that's one of the things why I tried to.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: I just like, really want to have a magnifying glass on all these good things, because I want people to be amplified.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: I want people to see your book and know about you and understand that it is a positive to talk about your successes and you should do it more.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: Like, whatever cadence you have, you know, amp it up, because more people need to know, because that's how people one can learn more about you and get to know you.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: And two, I think it's also a way for you to you know, reach new people and have a higher impact.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: And number three, and importantly, like for you to actually grow and be able to evolve to help even more people and scale even higher.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: So I think but we don't look at it like that at times Is there a right way to self-promote versus you know where?
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: It isn't obnoxious or feels really uncomfortable.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I just really appreciate all that you just said, because that's exactly it, but the right way to self-promote.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: So I go.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: The book has so many details in it of how to how to do it.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: But one thing that's the easiest way is, first of all, you need to brag to yourself first.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: We need to talk success to ourselves and say here's my brag books.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: You can call it smile file.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: I wrote a quick little post on all the different names that people have for it and you might say I already have a smile file, a brag file, a brag book, but are you doing it?
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: So we need to brag to ourselves first.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: I think that's the very first place is write down those accomplishments that you've had, and you don't have to go back to when you were 12.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: You can do it from today and say, hey, here's one win and it can be a win to you, it doesn't have to be a win to somebody else and then starting to say what you've done and then also what give yourself a compliment.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: If you didn't get a compliment on your work today, on your offering to the world, give yourself that compliment.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: I think it's really important to start with that internal work but then to give something tangible that you can start to do today is to use the word because.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: So so many of us, I would rather you just say your success and stand in it, but because we often need to lead ourselves into it, the word because is one of those glorious words.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: And so, um, l'oreal, you know, because I'm worth it.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: And that one word because allows us to say I'm valuable because I'm worth it, or this has happened because I'm whatever.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: You can say anything with it.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: So, just if you wanted to say I'm successful because my team supported me, right, wanted to say I'm successful because my team supported me, right.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: So like, I'm successful and you're going to unpack that a little bit, but you know, I have this great book that I have because, because I had so many great interview subjects like that's not really well articulated, but the word because softens it for people.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Then you just standing on, you know your shoulders, and saying here how, here's, how awesome I am.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: So that's where that's.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: One tip is the word because.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: And then also gathering people together, shining a spotlight on someone else.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: So giving a compliment, a genuine compliment, posting someone else's podcast or social media post, helping amplify other people, putting the spotlight on someone else, it comes back to you.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: So my challenge to the audience right now is to go and like, amplify this podcast to two people, just like, say like and share it with other people so that they can hear it.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: And that is a small act of helping somebody else to shine.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: But then also it comes back to you because someone else, you're being of service to someone else and they're saying well, thank you for sharing the knowledge of that podcast.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: It was in such great service to me.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: It's incredible and I love the idea of kind of passing it on and helping people understand like even this, just someone hearing it that it's okay, that it's going to be a positive for you to say something positive about yourself.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's crazy that we have to say things like that, but it's true, you know, sometimes it's easier for someone to do something professionally than it is personally, right?
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Well, okay, I don't want to brag about myself personally, but if I do it, maybe it'll help my organization or help my business, or it'll help maybe get another client.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: So why is bragging good for business?
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Because I may think maybe maybe we bring it in that way where it feels more comfortable for someone possibly approaching it.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's definitely good for business.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: First of all, it keeps you going.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Other people will see your successes and then come to you.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: Success likes success and so when we're able to talk about our stories of success, our clients will lean in and then hopefully refer us, give us more work.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: So we definitely need to do it.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: If you're an entrepreneur, but if you are also inside an organization, you need to talk about your successes.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: More clients will come to you, more money will come to you.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: It's just that we so often think that well, can't they see it?
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Aren't they mind readers?
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: And in Japan they have Sessura, where in their organizations their leaders know the people so well that they're able to be mind readers and read their minds to know that they should get a promotion.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: You're never supposed to say I want a promotion.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: They read your mind Like we don't have that, like that's not, no one's doing that.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: So if you're doing it for the benefit of really letting people know how you are here to serve, and then when you do that, then they'll come and find you and do work with you.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: I think it's also a way to keep employed that people know they can see your track record.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: So if you do make a slip up, they can say look back and say, hey, you know what that was one slip up.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: We've had this great body of work with them and or on social media, they've done this great work.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's one thing.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: You know, we're not always perfect, thank goodness.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: So we can look back and say, hey, they've built this social currency.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: I think nowadays, too, we have to continually be proving ourselves.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: You know, we just can't sit back and think that we're going to be the one that they're going to come to next.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, someone just doesn't show up to the door and say I want to give you six figures and here's what I want you to do for me.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: No, you got to work for it.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: I think you have to do the work Right, and I think in doing the work, you have to show what you've accomplished, which is the proving it part right, the, the social proof right.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: We hear this social proof a lot and sometimes social proof is just actually junk, like I see some of it like that is not real, there's no way you know so.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: And then other times I see people really authentically tell their story.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: So tell me the, in your opinion, all your research, the combination of storytelling and self-promotion, like how do they compliment one another and what do we need to know?
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Or it's like what are some tidbits around storytelling that link into really good self promotion or bragging?
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so self-promotion.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: So we have our brag, we're talking about our successes, and self-promotion it's all the different ways that you get that brag out into the world.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: So you might like to do podcasts and not video, and then you might like to do social media, or you might hate social media and never want to be on it, and that's okay.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: It's not about being on social media, it's about figuring out who you're meant to serve and then figuring out how to get to them.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: So it might actually be picking up the phone, which is freaky to people.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: That that's something someone would recommend.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Pick up the phone.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: That is actually self-promotion.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: I know like what?
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: Being in a corporate newsletter, self-promotion, being on a panel, going to a conference and following up with people introducing yourself at a conference those are all levels of self-promotion.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: It's being out in the world, but it's the tactics that you're going to choose to do, and so that's a big part of it.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: But storytelling is a foundational piece to all of it.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: So when we are able to tell our stories of success, that's when we'll win.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: And again, another real point is start a story bank, because so many of us think oh well, I'll just respond to what they say because I'm smart and fast, but it's not intentional enough.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what is your point?
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: What is your point of view?
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: What do you want to get across?
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: And none of us want to be that?
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: That mom or that aunt on the playground who comes in and says, hey, here's all the successes of my family today and we did all these things, and everyone's like, oh my goodness, that's where we start to feel that when you list off your successes, we want to be intentional about why I'm telling you this success and what's the story behind it.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: And we can put things in a story.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Humans love stories and so we just really respond to them.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: It does make it stickier, but it's one of the easiest ways to communicate is still stories.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: So we'll lean in for a story, and it doesn't have to be a long story like Lord of the Rings or whatever nowadays, or a Netflix series.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: It can be 15 seconds.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: You know it can be that short.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: People will tune in.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: So how do we get comfortable with being uncomfortable?
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: You know you share a lot of this in the book, but it's kind of some of the tidbits for us of like how do we lean in to some of this?
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: I heard a couple of things that I would take away.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: I was like start small.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be something big, it can be something.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: Start with yourself.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: So I talk about fear plus 10%.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: So when you start to feel that uncomfortable, that's a good place to be.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: We are constantly feeling that nowadays.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: So you need to get really right to that edge of that diving board and you're looking down and it's pretty deep down there or cold, and you know it and you're going to take that leap.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: So you have to be really like just right there.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: Enough that it's like giving you that, those feelings, the willies.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: I think it is that you're like, okay, am I really going to hit send, cause I just hit send on something like, uh, should I really do that?
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: But it has to go a little bit further.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Otherwise, if we're always in our comfort zone, that's not going to get you to where you need to go on the world that we live in today.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: So, just again, it is starting small.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: It's getting people around you too who are going to cheer you on.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: So do you have some cheerleaders?
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: And it can be somebody that you don't necessarily talk to all the time, it could be a group, it could be a community, it could be a book that gives you that lift that you need to keep going.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: But it's starting small and then amplifying others and then keep moving as you go.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: So those are a few things.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I like it.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: How can leaders actually help their team?
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: So, as we kind of end here like what you know, as leader we have a role to not only promote ourselves or brag about our accomplishments and not just at your annual review, doing it on a regular basis in the cadence.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: But how do we help others in our?
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: You know, the people that we lead understand that it's okay to also brag about themselves.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, cause the whole book is is a lot.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: There's a lot about it, but chapter 13 in particular talks about it, and I think one of the big things, especially when you're working with a lot of women, is lean in when you hear a self-deprecation so many of us are Queens of self-deprecation.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: Let me hey, that was a compliment.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Let me tell you all the bad things that happened behind the scenes so that you know that you know.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: So I dismissed the compliment and so when you have a team member who is really into self-deprecation, lean in.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Are you modeling that?
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Cause it's not a good thing for most of us to model.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: It's very nuanced and it's very hard.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: So lean in when you have a team member who's self-deprecating a lot and get curious about why she's doing that, and it may mean that you might do some coaching to let her know what that looks like and how it's holding her back.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: But having you know, a lot of us have already so much humility and that's what we're seeing on these social posts and then business periodicals more humility for leaders.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Like I think anyone who's listening to your podcast already knows we are here based on the shoulders of giants.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Somebody else has paved the road for us.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: So, knowing that the level of humility we have to watch that Some people need it, some people don't, and so that's also leaning into your team who's talking about themselves a lot and then asking that person to say, well, who, who should we look to next?
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Who should have some credit on that project?
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: So someone is always taking all the credit.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Make him say, well, so, and so Sheila also did.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: Actually, she did 85 percent of the project, but I'm just taking the credit because credit goes where credit flows knows.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: So in the past, if Joe always got the credit and then he left for paternity leave and then he came back, but we've done, we've done all the work, who's going to get it?
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: Who's going to get all the credit?
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: It's going to be Joe, and so we need to make sure that credit is dispersed amongst our team without without setting up a squabbling situation that's the last thing you want but really helping your team to articulate their brags, self-promote, and not just going with the people who are schmoozing with you.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: What does that look like?
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: It's being aware, as a leader, about what it looks like to brag and self-promote so they can get the opportunities for your organization and then also that they can shine so that they can be elevated into the position that will best serve the organization too.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: And also, it always makes you shine when you have team members that are awesome.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: It's halo effect.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so a couple of things in there.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: So it's intentional noticing of your team and being able to, you know, be aware of who is actually standing out, based on what they're saying and sharing and who maybe needs amplified more and seeing how to disperse that across.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: And the other thing which was important is, like, are you modeling the behavior?
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: You know, that is, the positive behavior around self-promotion and storytelling.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: And I think one of the things along storytelling is you're telling the story which has a full 360 degree of what's happened, not just the success.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: And so being able to, you know, like I've always been, as a leader, open about like this didn't work and this, this, we tried this and it failed, and then we, then we did this and then, you know, advocated for that and then this is how we got there, and I always was using the word we, but I think, being the leader of the group and responsible, I think you know that that's helpful.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: I think it's interesting within some organizations where you see pockets of that.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: So you know, our listeners today really intentionally noticed like, where are you seeing the bulletins come out, or the kudos, or the bold moves or whatever it may be called in your organization and making sure that you're in there, making sure that your team is in there and you know, just maybe starting with something like that, I think some people shy away from attention.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: I think that's interesting just how we approach that.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Is there anything, as we kind of you know, end around attention that can help us feel more comfortable with that, or is that really just practice?
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because you know what?
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: It's not for this raging extrovert.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: This book is really for anyone.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: So introverts, ambiverts, extroverts, for sure.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: One thing though, when you're receiving that award what I do if somebody's giving me compliments, I will, will wiggle my toes, Cause I have the same thing.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, it's going to be too much.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: And then I go into self-deprecation mode or say, you know, I also, whenever someone gives me a compliment or gives me an award or anything, I thank them.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: And then I stopped talking.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: you know, stop talking so that it sits, because otherwise we're going to fill that silence but wiggle your toes If you're starting to feel like, like oh no, they're complimenting me, I'm giving a, getting an award.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Wiggle your toes and also remember that it's an honor for them to give this to you, and so when we're dismissive of people who give us things, it's actually backhanded, like you, don't do that, so we have to reframe it, that they thought my work was good enough.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: If I dismiss it, then I'm dismissing them, and so that's why, when we write on LinkedIn or or thank somebody for our word, we don't, we're not humbled, we're not this, we're not that.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: We say thank you, we stand in the success, and then we can, also because of my team, so we can also thank other people within that, because we know we are here, because other people helped pave the way for us, and so that's a good chance for Adam.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: The because word but yeah, I hear you on that it's not about me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: It's about here's how I'm here to serve, and then also here's how I can help other people to shine.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's about your impact, and that's really what it comes down to, I think.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: When you brag or self-promote and tell your story, you're sharing hey, here's the impact I have, and I want to help amplify, support other people to do the same or even more, and so I think, looking at it through that lens, I think, can also help people understand how important it is and celebrate you, the small wins and the big wins.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: They're all wins, and so I think, talking about them internally and being able to write them down, we do a win on.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: You know what were wins every Friday as a team, and it's like you, you don't, you don't remember all the little things that happened.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: You're like, wow, that's really cool.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: And also your win isn't what your team members win is Right.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: So cause you don't know what they've gone through to get that win, so it might seem really small to you and you don't even see it, but for them they maybe went through all of their hurdles, that they have their baggage, to get to that small thing that you're like, what are you talking about?
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: And so what your win is isn't somebody else's win.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: So here, leaning in and hearing that is magic, magic.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's personal right.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: So I think that's why it's so important that you continue to also brag and self-promote, because people don't know your journey or your story without it and they might assume or think something different, that it may not be accurate.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: So it also helps with accurate understanding of who you are and what you're about and what you've accomplished.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: That's a great way to put it.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah Well, thank you so much for being on the bold lounge.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: All the information about Lisa's book, how to contact her and connect with her and have her come talk with you and your organization are in the episode notes.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: Thank you for being a great guest, Thank you.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge podcast.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: Through the continuum of bold stories vulnerability to taking a a leap you will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others through their unique and important story.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others and share the journey of those with a bold mindset.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing the next bold journey with you.