Latest / The Unconducted Curriculum / Episode 13: Level Up! Part 2 From Proficient to Distinguished Transforming Teaching in the Band Hall
Transcript
- Chris: Welcome back to the Unconducted Curriculum Podcast. today we're going to do part two of our episode from Proficient to Distinguished, what exceptional teaching looks like in the band hall. And this week's episode, we're going to be discussing and focusing on part three of the T test rubric, which is learning environment, building a culture of excellence, and part four, which is professional practices. and that's the director as a lifelong learner. And so getting into part three with learning environment, we're talking about routines and procedures, we're talking about managing student behavior, and we're talking about classroom culture. And and so Tina, as we go into classrooms and in just our own experience, trying to instill these routines, instill a culture in our programs. Tina Parr: Right. Mm-hmm. Chris: and then seeing other places where we go on a weekly basis. what do you think is the biggest pitfall in learning environment? what things are not happening that you see most regularly? Tina Parr: Think sometimes we forget about the systems we have in place. And so it becomes not as important, that directors are on the podium and really trying to just teach, teach, teach, and not reminding and making sure that the kids go back to whatever ready position they are in for you to make sure Chris: Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: that they're actively engaged, sitting up nice and tall, instruments all in the same spot, and really having their focus on the director. because a lot of times when we forget to remind the kids to do that, they are just, they they slump over, they're not sitting right, they're they're just their brains are not engaged with the teacher. So I think that's the biggest thing. And they know a lot of places they know what to do. You know, it's just you know, reeling that back in to go, okay, or you know, directors can keep their hands up a little bit longer to make them freeze. and then Chris: Right. Right. Tina Parr: also remind them when your hands go down that Please go to ready position. nope, make sure you're at ready position. Or, do you look like your neighbor? falo, you look amazing. You all look the same. Thank you for your eyes on me, or just remind them, eyes on me, sit tall, and I have, my nonverbals and I'm sitting here doing them, going, eyes on me, sit tall, which I really don't have Chris: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Tina Parr: to speak once they know those. But it's just reminding them, where their focus is and where they need to be turned to seated, be seated and Just be engaged. Chris: Yeah. Well, and I think too and and we starting with these these procedures, you know, with our beginners and with our middle school students, part of the disconnect that I see in the high school is that we start the year in late July with marching bands. Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Chris: And we have to have routines and procedures for that as well. And a lot Tina Parr: Correct. Chris: of schools have those procedures and routines when they're outside on the field, but when they go inside, Tina Parr: Mm. Chris: those things aren't carried through. And and it doesn't have to be the exact same thing. Although there's schools that I see that do. I was Tina Parr: Right. Chris: watching a s a student teacher the other day, and they're in he's he was working with a a non varsity band at the high school level going through warm up stuff. And the way that the students were repeating instructions back to him from the podium, to the podium was just like what we would do outside when we're giving instructions Tina Parr: Okay. Chris: and the band would repeat, you know. Tina Parr: Right, okay. Chris: so a lot of those same procedures were actually happening in Tina Parr: Mm. Chris: the band hall when they're seat seated. and playing through that way Tina Parr: Hmm. Yeah. Chris: as they were outside, which great, whatever. You know, it worked. It was good. And the kids were very focused. Tina Parr: Right. Were they doing marching music or pep music? Or were they doing concert style? Chris: This was just no, they were actually just working on some warm ups and some technique exercises and things like that Tina Parr: Okay. Chris: that were not necessarily what they do outside. and so yeah, I mean it was effective because they're still Tina Parr: Okay. But I think it could be effective. Yeah. Yeah. Chris: repeating back, you know, what we're doing just to make sure that that communication is strong and everybody's on the same page and things like that. And and I've worked with groups, you know, where that's not a procedure outdoors. Tina Parr: Hmm. Chris: I come in and try to especially with groups that I work with, on a weekly basis with during marching Tina Parr: Yes. Chris: season, it's like we talk about that. Have them repeat. Because invariably when they don't repeat, somebody messes up. Somebody, you know Tina Parr: Right. And also out there on the field, it can hurt somebody. You know what I mean? If they don't whatever or they don't stop Chris: It can. It can. Yeah. Tina Parr: where they're supposed to, but repeating that also pointing, you know, pointing fully extended arm, pointing to set whatever, to set whatever, to set whatever, where Chris: Yep, yep. Yep. Tina Parr: they're going, it just keeps them engaged, like you're saying, and they're mentally repaired, prepared to be able to step off and do whatever it is. Yeah. Chris: Right. And I think that, we have to we have to analyze what we're doing, and it if if what we're doing outside works, then let's do at least some version of that inside. Tina Parr: Mm. Hm. Right. Well, I always thought, in when I did teach high school and on the podium at high school. when we started to sit down for concert band and everything, I know that we related it to, okay, you're at attention, however you're holding your instruments at attention, that is ready position, but you're seated. and we'd say, you're not, also I you'd catch yourself going, okay, you're not, attention outside or whatever you want to call it, whatever the term is for, being in marching band and and Chris: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: horns up is is nonverbal. You know, horns up is more here and you don't have to pop Chris: Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: it, but you are have to get there pretty quickly. we always try to change this in that way, that it's the same Chris: Yeah. Tina Parr: as, and also how tall they're sitting is what they would do out there on the marching field. And how even like, and I know like there's different opinions, like but but flutes even being you know parallel to the ground trying to keep that because it keeps their chin up and their airstream in the same way, you know, going up. Chris: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: And it just any instrument that you're trying to keep what that looks like. Chris: Right. Right. Tina Parr: but more for concert season. There's little adjustments you have to make, but it works that it works with that transition. Chris: Well and I think the the key is that we actually spend some time on that and we discuss those things and we teach those things. Not just discuss them, but teach them and expect them, you know. Tina Parr: Yes, you have to. Yes. No, I see. Yes. Well, just tell them saying what I was saying, and that it's just like being outside. it's Chris: Right. Tina Parr: exactly the same thing. And it makes their brain go, yeah, you're right. Chris: Well, and there are groups out there that, are struggling to have a routine and have good student behavior and things like that and good culture when they're outside too. and so it's just you have to establish those consistent routines. You know, how are we Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Yes. Chris: going to, enter the room or what do we do when we when we get outside, what's the first thing that we do? Do we go to a warm-up block? Do we go to a circle? what is it that we do? make sure that they understand exactly what's required of them from an instrument standpoint, accessories, all that stuff, materials management, transitions, Tina Parr: Yeah. Chris: when are we gonna when we transition from one thing to another, teach how long that should take. Tina Parr: Right. Right. Even a water break or whatever Chris: Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: outside. They if we're on the field, it's always you're running. you're jogging, you're running, you don't walk on the field. and even starting rehearsal before rehearsal, no one's really allowed on the field. Except you're all setting everything up nice and neats in rows by instrument and you're over there, and then when the whistle's blown, you're you're running on the field to whatever spot. Like you said, are you starting in a set? Are you starting in a warm up block? Are you starting whatever it is? But have that procedure in place. And it's just like a if you're in the band hall, same thing. when they walk in the room, do they have their timer set where they have two minutes to be in their chair and get instruments completely ready and get their stand up high enough everybody raising their stand for their height and opening your binders to the warm up page and make sure they're doing that because a lot of kids have it memorized they need to be looking at it because then you can change things and they can have that visual so they're not just completely thinking I'm just gonna do this today and I'm just gonna do that. They have to look at it. but yeah. Chris: Right, exactly. and I I love the speaking, back in the marching band terms for a second, I love the you you're not allowed on the field unless you're setting up a prop or something until Tina Parr: Yes. Chris: rehearsal starts and we ask you to to get on the field. Tina Parr: Yes. Chris: And teaching that once you cross that sideline, mouths are closed and that's just the Tina Parr: Yes. Mm-hmm. Chris: expectation and when a water break is given You hustle off the field. Once you cross Tina Parr: Yes. Chris: that sideline, then you can talk. that's fine. Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Chris: But having that space, that rehearsal space. And I think when we're outdoors, the mindset becomes so different for students. Because when you're outdoors, a lot of times there is no voice levels. There is no expect you know, it's just mm-hmm. Tina Parr: Right. But that's a stage. That is your stage. Just like if you're in concert season and you're on a stage. That is a stage. And also, when it's a football, pardon me, when it's a parking lot, that that's, paint the football feels painted on it. it's still like you said, Chris: Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: it just it doesn't have that feel of a stage, but if you address it and you make it their stage. And and have those boundaries set in place of what they do. And I do know there's exceptions. some d time in class time, maybe, they were instructed, okay, when you get out there, I need you to, practice set to set or mark a set to Chris: Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: set or whatever. But you have to be actively engaged to do that and been instructed to be able to do that. That works Chris: Right. Tina Parr: really well because they can do a lot before rehearsal starts. And then and then there's an another time then when the directors get out there or whatever the procedure is, they come off the stage still, which I'm calling the the Chris: Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: marching grid, a stage, but they come off of the marching grid and then whatever you do, a whistle, whatever, they have one minute to get to their spot of their starting spot of whatever we're doing in the drill. So that you can you can change it, but you just cannot let it be a place to talk. You're not talking. Voices are silent. you're not doing any of that. And like you said, everything has to be call and response. What are we doing? We're pointing and saying, going set to set and Chris: Yes. Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: whatever we're doing so they know when they're gonna start and exactly where they're gonna stop. And we can do that in the concert Chris: Right. Tina Parr: band setting too. Chris: Yeah, just pointing on the page, we're starting here, we're stopping here. Yep. Tina Parr: Yes, touch. We're s yep, we're setting it square five and we're going to thirty two. Touch it. Okay, here we go. That's another thing. I don't see a lot of touching the page anymore. I think it's really effective And now that I'm thinking Chris: Think so too. Tina Parr: about it, 'cause I've never thought about it comparing it to marching band pointing to their spot and saying, what set it is and how many counts it is, it's basically the same thing, I think yeah. Chris: It is, it is. Tina Parr: It needs to be added, if we're not doing that, because also you can see who's really actively going on stopping here. Because they have to really Chris: Yeah. Tina Parr: think about it. Chris: They do, and just like I was working with a group recently where the transitions from one set to another were not very clean, and it was obvious that students weren't very comfortable with where that transition was. and I said, All right, we're just gonna stand here and play these sixteen counts. we're gonna mark time, we're gonna do a step out, but we're gonna play these Tina Parr: Right. Mm-hmm. Chris: sixteen counts because you need to know what sixteen counts of music is because the next set's gonna happen on the next phrase, and they just didn't know. So Tina Parr: Right. Right. Chris: we're working on that, play sixteen counts, now move sixteen counts. Play sixteen counts, now put it together. Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Chris: Blah, blah, blah. But it's all that those procedures that you've got to make sure that they're doing, Tina Parr: Right. Chris: and being consistent with it. Tina Parr: Well, and also out on the field, you know, sometimes we do a counting rep. You know, and that also can be related to, you know, you're sitting down there concert season-wise and say, okay, we're doing a counting rep. And you could call it a counting rep just like you do outside. You know, okay, everybody, Chris: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah. Tina Parr: here we go. But a lot of people will clap and do all that, which I think is great, but as music progresses, the clapping can be hard to define, Chris: Yeah. Tina Parr: but like touching underneath the page. underneath every count that's happening, it's become much more effective effective lately. So consider Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tina Parr: that. It's the same thing. Chris: Yeah, Well, and then, make rehearsal expectations visible to the students, whether that's sharing a lesson plan, through whatever apps you're using, things like that, Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Chris: discussing it with them briefly at the beginning of rehearsal. I think that's one of the biggest downfalls that I see is students come out and we don't tell them Here's what we have to accomplish today. Here's what the goal is for the day. Tina Parr: Right the goal. Chris: and I've talked about this, I feel like until I'm blue in the face on this podcast. Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Chris: but it is so prevalent where students just don't understand what their expectations are for the day. and we have to, we have to make them know that. And, you know, a simple way of doing that is to share your your plan with them, you know, through Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Chris: whatever service you want to use. But Tina Parr: Right. Chris: I think also, vocalizing that. And making them Tina Parr: Right. Chris: understand what what we've got to do today. that is a that's a big thing. Tina Parr: Yeah. But having some kind of slide has to be up there. It really, really does. has to. And you have Chris: Yes. If you're in if you're indoors, absolutely. Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: to present that goal, Chris: Right. You know, and then developing student leadership in managing equipment, supplies, sectional responsibilities. Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Yes. Chris: student leadership number one, and this is this is difficult because we say this all the time, that it shouldn't just be limited to marching season. And I even struggled Tina Parr: Right. Chris: with that, when I was teaching to figure out how to use my student leaders year round. Tina Parr: Right. But Chris: And it changes. the role changes, the responsibilities may change. but you've got to figure out how to keep them involved and how to keep them being a good model. in concert season, that may be that they're, if you're passing out something in class, they're passing it that they're taking care of that. they're helping pass things out. Tina Parr: Right. Or there's librarians that you have appointed for the whole entire year. Just Chris: Right. Right. Tina Parr: like having kids helping with uniforms, but that's that's still the entire year too, for s for some for some schools, yeah. Chris: Yes. That's still the entire year, but but section leaders and squad leaders Tina Parr: Yeah. Let let them do some sectionals. They can be section-led sectionals, you know, but you also have to be a part of it, in some way, but they can very much do that. Yeah, I agree. It's got to carry to the classroom. Yeah. Chris: Yeah, and and really under yeah, and make sure you have an effective process for selecting your leaders. Tina Parr: Yes. Chris: because a student leader section that is weak can really have a a major impact on your your year. Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Chris: and and I've I've seen that in a few places and I don't get into a lot of times what what is your process for selecting your leaders. Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Chris: and in some s some schools I do, and we've got Tina Parr: Right. Chris: I've got a whole, packet that is dedicated to student leaders and how to select them and what they should do to apply and all that stuff. But Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. And they need to have a contract and also that that contract Chris: Yes. Tina Parr: states if they're not meeting expectation that their role could be, you know, they don't Chris: Changed. Tina Parr: have yeah, they don't have that role anymore. And that and I've seen that happen, and Chris: I had to do that a couple of times in my career Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Chris: where a student leader just didn't meet expectations and I had to have that tough conversation with them and the parents. But we had a signed contract and it was easy Tina Parr: Right. Chris: to say, This isn't happening, this isn't happening, this isn't happening, and Tina Parr: And also it doesn't happen all of a sudden without the student not knowing. You have to make sure they know, Chris: No, no, it doesn't. Tina Parr: hey, you know, you you you're not meeting expectations here and here, and here's some advice of how to, reach the goals of being a really good leader. And then if Chris: Right. Tina Parr: those goals are not being met still, like you said, you meet with the parents and the student and yeah. Right. Chris: Yeah, because they are students. they're gonna make mistakes and you have to be constantly coaching, I believe, with your student leaders, just like you would be anybody else. Yes. Tina Parr: Yes. Even the ones that are doing well. Yeah, the ones that are doing you have to keep meeting with them, meeting with your drum majors, meeting with your section leaders and drum majors, whatever the leadership is. But I Chris: Right. Tina Parr: I do agree with you about concert season. It needs to carry through. And they it might be titled different roles, but it needs to keep going. And I think you know, really establishing that with like you said, with your packet that, shows you how do you select your leaders? how are they picked and what's that procedure and have them sign a contract, your drum major signed a contract, all of that. Just everyone. But include concert season stuff. I like that Chris: Yeah. Tina Parr: idea a lot. Chris: Well, and that's the idea, and I I spent Tina Parr: Yeah. Chris: a lot of time thinking about that. And I'm not gonna sit here and say that I had perfect everybody was a perfect student leader during my career because they weren't, Tina Parr: yeah. Right. No, I me too. Chris: but we had a ton of really great ones. Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Chris: and then the ones that struggled. we coached them, we worked with them, we helped them become better at what they were doing. And most of the time, they became better at what they were doing. but it's it's an important part because you're talking about routines and procedures, and they have to have some of those routines and procedures too. You know, if they're if they're in marching band, what are your drum majors' expectations, for instance, Tina Parr: Right. Chris: during warm-up? When they're not on the podium, what do you have them Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Right. Chris: doing? just different things like that. You you have to go through and and really make sure that they understand Tina Parr: And define it. Chris: what what to do. Tina Parr: Right. And if you have, if it's a it's a large school and you have multiple drum majors, they can be out teching also. but also you have to explain to the whole band, look, they're gonna be out there. They're gonna be helping you, they're assisting you, also when you're up, you know, the director that's up there giving instructions, saying, drum majors, please make sure everybody that's on the field that's helping. You know, we're concentrating right now on, legs, feet, ankles, whatever that goal is, that's what they're gonna be concentrating on and telling everybody. And also if you have hired people, that are out there, they know what the Chris: Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: goal is. And the students do too. so it's it's just yeah, define what they do, make sure they have a duty. Chris: Well, yeah, because and we sometimes we just think, well, they're they should know. and that's not always the case because I Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Chris: was recently working with a band and the band was doing warm up and during warm up I was walking around and I'm correcting, first position, what that looks like in students, horn angles, upper body posture, Tina Parr: Right. Mm-hmm. Chris: just standing in front of different students listening to what they're playing and trying to just help as much as I can during that process. And I look at the drum majors and one of them is standing there on his phone and the other one's just Tina Parr: no. Chris: standing there. And I walked up to them and I just politely said, What do you guys think you should be doing right now? And the one that was on his phone said, I have honestly have no idea. And Tina Parr: Right. Chris: I said, Then you're not paying attention. What am I doing right Tina Parr: They're not, yeah. Chris: now? you need Tina Parr: Right. Chris: to be doing what I'm doing. You need to be walking around correcting feet, correcting posture, correcting horn angles, Tina Parr: Yes. And also repeating the instructions. Chris: Yeah. Repeating instructions. Yeah. Tina Parr: And making sure everybody is repeating. sometimes throughout the season you have to remind all students, you have to you have to be bold with your your repeating, all of that Chris: Yeah. Yes. Tina Parr: and then help them. And you need to be the loudest on the field. And when I say that, I do not mean screaming. I just mean big projected voice. And if they're that Chris: Right. Absolutely. Project, yeah. Tina Parr: example going around, it really helps, and if they Chris: Yeah. Tina Parr: and also a lot of them like you you all you teach the drum majors to be good teachers. Chris: Right. Tina Parr: to be very encouraging Chris: Yes. Tina Parr: and also I love to tell them to tell the students thank you. Like if you say, Hey, you're out of step here and you need to do whatever and for the students to acknowledge them, but them to say thank you, or hey, that was a lot better after the fact, that you've watched them, or give them a thumbs up. That was really good, because it's nonverbal, so it's not as much, you know, that you're Chris: Well, and that that's exactly what I was fixing to say is you've as a drum major, you've got to and as a leader, student leader, you've got to build those relationships. And it doesn't happen from just constantly giving them, corrections, but you have to Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Chris: give positive reinforcement. You have to thank them, you have to give them a fuss fist bump, high five, whatever, when they're correcting things. You know, build those relationships so that they Tina Parr: Right. Yes, anything. Yes. Mm-hmm. Chris: see you as somebody who wants to help them and not just as somebody who is yelling at them to stay still or stop talking Tina Parr: Yes. Chris: or whatever. so you, as as the student leader, you have to build those relationships too. I mean, it's Tina Parr: Yes. Chris: not any different than as a band director or anything else. It's just same of the same processes, you know. Tina Parr: Right. Yes. Chris: and so still staying here in the routines and procedures, I think One thing we have to make sure that we understand is maintain a safe, organized, and accessible rehearsal space. Tina Parr: Right. Chris: and these are all things that are on the T test rubric. Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Chris: and sometimes, you know, with a student teacher, I can't really fault them if I go into a room and it's not very organized because it's not their room. But we'll talk about it. You know, Tina Parr: Yeah. Chris: we'll talk about it. Tina Parr: The biggest thing I see is there's just too many tables. Get rid Chris: Yeah. Tina Parr: of all the tables at the front of the room. I mean, seriously, if you have to have one that has like a computer set up, you know, a laptop or whatever that they have to check out to go to the restroom because some schools do that or whatever Chris: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: it is, but get rid of the tables. It they all don't need to be there. maybe have one that has like where you labeled that there's pencils or batteries for tuners, and it's all labeled very clearly because you want a little bit of that, So the kid the students coming in, if they need things, they don't have they don't necessarily have to talk to a director, they just go get them, to help help Chris: Right. Right. Tina Parr: with that. You need one space like that in the room, and it might not necessarily be in the front of the room, it may be off to the side, and they Chris: Right. Tina Parr: know that's the supply table, or even to use the restroom table to get whatever the procedure is for that school. But Yeah, don't have so many things up there because, it stops us from having stacks of things. And but you're right, when someone comes in and they see the room, do you see all these stacks? Or is it just a very clean, environment where nothing is up front except your podium and the other thing, I know we have the big music stands that we use as directors. I really do not care for them. For one, for Chris: Mm. Tina Parr: me, each director's a different height, and as, I was getting older and teaching, I needed it almost under my armpits, to be able to see the music better, even Chris: Right. Tina Parr: with glasses or contacts. It just was easier for me to see. And and I so I could take it and do that with a regular music stand and just use it instead of because some people will have those big ones and then some of them have shelves. it's just stuff with stuff. Chris: That's a It's like a junk drawer. Tina Parr: and everyone's music's up there for everything and beginners and all that, and you're putting your stuff on top of that. You know, it is, it's junk drawer. I love that analogy. Yeah, don't have that. You know, let it just be a normal music stand. If you want to turn it upside down because the score's longer or whatever, turn it upside down, the stand I'm saying. You know, all I Chris: Yeah. Well Tina Parr: I I've been really trying to encourage that in the schools I'm going into. Chris: And I encourage that everywhere I go. Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Chris: If they have what I took mine, we had one of those big winger conductor podium things, Tina Parr: Yes. Chris: I put it over to my right side. And I put my score there, I put my, my phone there if it was connected to my you know, speakers and all that Tina Parr: Right. Chris: stuff for tuner and and metronome, my pencils were there, my baton would sit there. In front of me, nothing, no Tina Parr: Right. Chris: stand at all. Because I'm trying to teach, these student teachers, especially and and a lot of young directors and even some veteran directors, to quit staring at the score. Tina Parr: Right. Chris: Know your music a little bit better and communicate with your band. And also that and we'll get Tina Parr: Yes. Yeah, don't look as much. Chris: into this in in just a second with managing student behavior. But Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Chris: if your eyes are on them and you're focused on the students and you're not just staring at the music the whole time, Tina Parr: Yes. Chris: you're managing behavior a lot better. Tina Parr: Right. Chris: it's a lot more effective. Tina Parr: Right. And also mark on the score. If you have to highlight, if you if Chris: Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: if you have trouble finding spots or whatever, you know, also I love they have the sticky notes that are clear and colored that you can put the sticky note over the the the major stuff and you can write on them too. But like Chris: Yeah, yeah. Tina Parr: do things like that ahead of time. So and so you visually can see it and you you have your plan there. And then you Chris: Right. Tina Parr: can remove sticky notes when it's an accomplishment. So Chris: Right. Tina Parr: anything that will help you not look at the music as much. Chris: Exactly. Exactly. All right. So a follow-up question to routines and procedures. Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Chris: Just something to think about. How many minutes of instructional time are lost each day because students do not know what to do next? You know, Tina Parr: Right. Yeah. Chris: how much time are we spending constantly telling Tina Parr: Yeah. Chris: them what they need to be doing? and I I always tell my my student teachers or my my younger teachers that are mentor. video your your class, and Tina Parr: Right. Yes. Chris: and talk and just figure out number one, how many minutes are you talking and they're not playing? Tina Parr: Right. Chris: But number two, how many times are you saying, be quiet? How many times are you repeating an instruction because they're not listening? All those types of things. And it'll be eye opening. that's a Tina Parr: Right. And you should never really have to say be quiet if you just say, Go back to ready. Reminder. Right. Chris: Mm mm. If you have your procedures and right. If you have your procedures. Tina Parr: And if they and also if you get stuck, seriously, because we all do, okay, I'm doing this, it's not working. Step off the podium. Let them sit back, but Chris: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Tina Parr: give them a goal when you do that, instead of just talking, you know, give them a goal. Like, what do you love about this piece of music? You know, talk to your talk to your neighbor, or Chris: Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: or what, you know, what could you do to make the that section we're just doing better? Or you can also give them time to practice. You have 30 seconds. I'm gonna step down. You have 30 seconds. Seconds to practice from here to here, So if you get stuck or they become talkative or whatever, instead of saying be quiet or any of that, either remind them to go back to ready and eyes on you, or figure out a plan so you also can get ready again and step off. Chris: Right. Exactly. All right. So the second part of this learning environment is managing student behavior. Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Chris: and so we've talked a little bit about some of these Tina Parr: Right. Chris: things already, but establishing clear expectations from the beginning of Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Chris: the year. And and that's the first part of it. But reinforcing, yeah. Tina Parr: Number one part, it'll make make your whole year go so much better. So much Chris: It will. Tina Parr: better for you and the students. They'll Chris: Yeah. Tina Parr: enjoy it, you'll enjoy it, because it's not constantly a struggle of any any part. Chris: Well, and there's another part to that, which you're establishing the expectations, but you also have to reinforce those expectations. Tina Parr: Right. Chris: And you have to make yourself reinforce and and continue to reteach those expectations until they become a habit. Yes. Yeah. Tina Parr: Yep. It's like yeah, it's like checkpoints. You're doing checkpoints. During yeah, and also recording yourself, you can see are they doing those? Am I doing checkpoints? Am I, Chris: Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: you know, doing some nonverbal things. So it's just stays very positive. Chris: Right. and then enforcing procedures consistently and fairly. you've gotta make make sure that you don't have, favorites, things like that, which I mean, let's be honest. I think we've all had students that quote unquote are our favorites, you know, that type of thing, And that's natural Tina Parr: Yeah, we Right. Chris: in a lot of ways. because it's personality based or, Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Chris: they may see you as a a father or a a mother figure that they Tina Parr: Right. Chris: may not have in their life, different things like that. But when it comes to, behavior, we have to be consistent. We have to be fair. Tina Parr: Very much so. Chris: correct inappropriate behavior calmly and professionally. And that's one thing that Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Chris: man, and I'm not saying I never lost my temper, but I tried to minimize that as much as possible. and even, you know, Tina Parr: The biggest thing I ever learned about that was they cannot, you know, if something comes up there, stop. We're not having this conversation. You no longer you no longer can speak. No, stop. and if they still keep going, you cannot. You have to stop, and like not let them. be combative with you because there Chris: Right. Right. Tina Parr: are some kiddos that like to push people's buttons and just want to keep doing that you know Chris: Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: and you just have to say stop we will have this conversation if they keep going say stop and if they keep going you step off the podium and you ask them to go wherever they need to go and if you have to call administration call them you know or Chris: Right. Tina Parr: whatever the procedure is for the school but do not have an argument with the student do not engage Chris: Yeah, don't engage in that. And that goes with parents as well. Tina Parr: true Chris: I mean w and and I Tina Parr: set up a conference with me, even on the phone. So sorry, set up a conference. I'll be available tomorrow during my conference period. Just hang up. Chris: Yeah. I was really proud of one of my students that I mentor, or not students, but directors that I mentor, it was a couple of months ago, at the beginning of the year, and kinda had a parent come in and during conference period and wanted to have a little altercation about their their child Tina Parr: Mm. Chris: with the with the director, and he started talking to them and explaining what was going on. And The parent just was being very, ugly and yelling and screaming. And you know, the director very calmly said, We're not gonna have this type of conversation. If you can't speak respectfully to me, then we need to go sit in the principal's office and we need to have a mediator and we need to reschedule this because you've just come in and wanna yell at me right now. And you're not listening to what I'm saying. And just never got upset, and and things like that. I was really proud of him and we talked about those things, but it's it's true. And I would have parents, occasionally come in and something with their child they didn't like, whether or not they made a leadership position or they didn't get selected for a solo or something like that, and would want to come in and just, be ugly and yell at me and things like that. And I would just sit there and just shake my head and listen. And then when they'd get it out, I would say, Are you done? very calmly. And then I would tell them my side of story. If it was bad enough, then I would say, No, we're not doing this right now. You can make an appointment and we'll meet with the principal, but I would have a I had parents telling me, I can't get a rise out of you. How come I can't get you I'm like Tina Parr: Right. Chris: Because I'm not gonna get upset over this. this is not worth me getting upset about, it's just not part of it. But remaining professional, with parents and students. reinforce positive behavior rather than relying exclusively on consequences. And that's another thing that I feel like we can all do a much better job of. last night I was doing a clinic. And this particular band has some eighth graders marching with the high school band. And I had to say, not just me, but I think other directors too were correcting this one young lady on some spacing issues in a form several times. And I could see that she was getting a little frustrated, you know, of having to be corrected quite a bit. and she's an eighth grader. She's playing really well. And so what I wanted to make sure that we did is acknowledge some things that she was doing well. Tina Parr: doing well. Yeah. Chris: And I mean, this eighth grade kid is marching with better technique than most of the upperclassmen. Literally. You know, I mean, she she can't get Tina Parr: Right. But just can't get that one thing. Yeah. Chris: that one thing and it's a hard move. It's a long distance. Tina Parr: Right. Chris: She's having to really try to figure out how to take step size and all that stuff. But her technique was flawless. and so I made sure to mention that in front of the whole group. Tina Parr: Right. Chris: I I think that we have to do that more often. Tina Parr: Yes. Chris: and it doesn't just become a correction fest, but we've got to reinforce things that are going well, not just from a performance standpoint, but from a behavior standpoint. And, I know you've talked about that a lot where we can Tina Parr: Yes. Chris: draw attention to maybe make a student understand what they need to be doing by praising somebody close Tina Parr: Yes. Chris: to them that's doing the the correct thing. Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Yep. Chris: I really love how you're sitting up straight, you're tapping your foot. Can we all do that? those types of things. Tina Parr: Yes. yeah. And on the marching field, I really love the saxophones. I hear you. You're you're the strongest counting section. I want everybody to listen for to just the saxophones count and do do that rep and then say, Okay, everybody match that and that energy. But yeah, it can be done in all forms in beginner class, all of that. Chris: All forms. Yeah. Tina Parr: You know, you have someone like play part of a line or hold a note out and beginners, my goodness, that listen how beautiful that is, Unplug your tuners right now. Let's all play let that person play. Let's see how you know they're in tune. That's another good way to and then okay, let's plug back in and let's let's match that. But yeah, use other students because they, we all want to be complimented. We all want to be praised, but then Chris: Yes. Yes. Tina Parr: also we all need a reference to know how to get that praise and how you know what what's the goal. And a lot of things that we do is is listening, and matching and things like that, and performing. So that example helps them see and hear. what the goal is. Chris: Absolutely. And so all of that to me helps develop the third part of of this learning environment, which is classroom culture. making students feel respected, valued, and challenged, you know, Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Yep. Chris: encouraging students to support each other, make performing individually a safe opportunity for learning rather than a source of embarrassment. And there's times where I'll be doing a clinic and I know that something's not being played right. And I'm going down the row, through the section asking students to play to determine where the wrong note's coming from or who's not articulating this phrase the same way. Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Chris: that's not to embarrass, that's error detection. But Tina Parr: Right. Chris: When we fix it, I have to make sure that I am praising them for fixing it, Tina Parr: Right. Chris: and and asking the whole band, Hey, we got that corrected. Give a hand, Tina Parr: Right. And also after you like if you quick check, like you're saying, going down the road, Chris: Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: and you go, my god, that's what we need to that person. That is the correct way to do what they're supposed Chris: Yeah. Yes. Tina Parr: to be doing. But say, hey, don't you think everyone that just played had a great sound? Yes, but here I'm gonna Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Tina Parr: go back to my lovely shuffling, and I'm not necessarily gonna say you have to do it all the way through the high school to their top group, but it just encourages. I try to encourage every school that I go into, shuffle because sometimes kids are embarrassed, they don't want to play, but you have Chris: Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: to shuffle. shuffle for everybody and give a compliment, and so they don't they keep going. Because sometimes when students make mistakes, they stop and they get upset or they'll say something. But you have to train them to have confidence in themselves and to keep going Chris: Right. Tina Parr: like they're performing for a live audience all the time. And mistakes happen, you just recover. in a concert Chris: Right. Tina Parr: and you're playing, if you make a mistake, you just keep going. you just have to. But also, like in the environment of them learning their instruments and playing, shuffle for them. Yay, that was great. That was a great sound. but I need you to fix this. but as you get into the music that does have more technique and all of that. It's sometimes you have to go play, play, play, play, and then error, and maybe not shuffle as much, on that because people say that takes time. Shuffling does not take time if you teach them how long to shuffle. And also Chris: Right. Tina Parr: I would do the whole conductor cutoff, I practice with beginners especially. then teach them what a formata is. Shuffle. I would do shuffling formata. Chris: Yeah. Tina Parr: To teach them what a formata was. Okay, shovel for everybody, yay, and I'd do this. Snake stop. And that and Chris: Yep. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: and after we did that a few times and I'd go faster, I'd make them do it for a while and whatever. And we had fun with it. I said, now play a note. That's a formata. We were doing a formata, and explained them how they have to really watch and all stop there at the exact same time, and all of that. So it's a good teaching moment. but it also, like you said, the environment, the culture. how they feel safe to be able to play, Chris: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: and make a mistake if a brass, instrument doesn't read the correct partial or cracks or a read instrument squeaks. Keep going. It's gonna happen. Just keep going. Chris: Yeah, it is. And occasionally when I'm doing those things, you know, you'll come across a student who they're just not prepared. Maybe they don't have the music memorized. Maybe they don't have it. They just can't play it. Tina Parr: Right. Chris: Don't stand there and just keep forcing them to try, Okay, come see me after rehearsal. Let's work on this. Let's get this Tina Parr: Yes, yes. Chris: figured out. but we don't want to really embarrass them in front of the whole group. Tina Parr: No. Chris: And that's something that sometimes you'll see, it's like, Well, you should know this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, Yes, they should. Tina Parr: But if you say, do you think that is performance ready? that's a good good way to say, do you think this is performance ready? for the audience, or Chris: Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: whatever. Can you go home and practice it and perform those eight measures for your parents? and then come back. Or if you need help, come see me. Yeah, come see me. Chris: And I alwa and I always use the self evaluation, give yourself a rating. You know, and if the and if the band's rating depended on you, what would it be? And that type of thing. Tina Parr: Yes. I love yeah, that that's great. Yeah. Is that first division? Yeah. Right. Also, nowadays you can record yourself so easily. Just record Chris: yeah. Yeah. Tina Parr: yourself playing those measures. And then, like you said, is that first division? is that second division? And if they don't quite understand divisions yet, they do understand: is that an A? Would you give yourself an A? A B? A C, you know? Chris: Right, exactly. Well, and ensure that a majority of the rehearsal time is spent in active musical engagement. And we've talked Tina Parr: Uh-huh. Chris: about that already, and if you struggle with that, record your rehearsal and figure Tina Parr: Yep. Chris: up how much time you're talking. when you do a cutoff, cut them off, make them freeze, keep your hands up, keep their horns to their face. If it's just a short correction, give them the short correction, count right back in. There's no need for their horns Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Chris: to come down or any of that stuff. If it's something you need a few more seconds to talk about, hold. Just hold for three seconds. Count yourself. One, two, three. Then let them put their horns Tina Parr: Yep. Chris: down and then say what you need to say and then give them a horns back up. And if they start to talk when their horns come down, go right back up to set. And say, Well, Tina Parr: Yeah. Chris: if you're gonna talk, we're gonna stay right here. You know, Tina Parr: Yes. Chris: But just working on procedures to make sure that you're not spending a significant portion of the class period talking and they're not playing. And then Tina Parr: Right. And also like we even started the podcast, I mentioned that we forget about those or we we fall into that trap of Chris: Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: of I'm hurrying. my goodness, we have a week till this concert and I'm hurrying, hurrying, hurrying, and you put your hands down and they'd start talking again but that's also, you're in that mode of trying to get them better and prepared for this concert. But you forgetting or not doing that personally for your group. slows the learning process down of preparing for that concert. It really Chris: It does. It does. Tina Parr: does. So you just have to keep reminding yourself and like you said, record yourself. We asked the students to record themselves to check things. We have to record ourselves Chris: Yes. Tina Parr: also. And it doesn't have to be a video. It can be audio. it really can. It Chris: It can be audio. Tina Parr: can be either way. Just have your phone sitting there. I have a couple schools that when I'm there and it's class time they record the whole class just audio when I'm there. Just so they can go back and check. I think it's a great idea. Chris: Yeah, and with my student Tina Parr: Really good. Chris: teachers, I'll have them record themselves. And, Tina Parr: Yeah, it's great. Chris: there'll be something they share with me, maybe for a walkthrough, an informal, where we can do those, as a video assignment instead of having to go out for a 15 minute, walkthrough. But I'll just say Tina Parr: True. Chris: put it on the podium and just have it facing you. We don't need students in the in the video, you know, but Tina Parr: No. Chris: just check yourself, you know, just Tina Parr: Yes. Chris: just check yourself. It's a great And then finally, under classroom culture, make sure you're modeling the respect and for professionalism that you expect from the students. And it's it's one Tina Parr: Mm. Right. Chris: of those things where the teacher is do what I say, not what I do. Tina Parr: Mm, mm. Chris: And I'm like, you've got to model to them what you want back from them because they're going to give you back exactly what you're given. That's just the way it works. And Tina Parr: Right. Chris: so you've got to be mindful of that. And so we've discussed this already, but a student makes a mistake during a solo performance and rehearsal, and other students laugh. How should Tina Parr: Mm mm. Chris: the director respond? And how can that moment become an opportunity to reinforce the program's culture? and so number one, that's not something that I've experienced. students are gonna make mistakes. I I I've seen it. Yeah. Tina Parr: No, me neither. I've seen it in other environments, but not in mine. Because, if you're encouraging from day one that we're gonna shuffle mistakes and it's a learning environment, you know. Chris: Mm, mm. Tina Parr: and it's hard to witness when something like that happens because it's like, no, no, they were brave enough to do that. No, you know, we just recover. Right. Chris: Right. They've been selected to be the soloist, Well, and that's something that we have to think about. It Tina Parr: Right. Chris: it is what are you gonna do if students do start to l to make fun of some somebody? Number one, that's a a culture thing that you've got to correct. Like Tina Parr: Yes. Right. Chris: it's not just an isolated thing that we need to to fix right here, but that's a culture thing. We need to go back and say, why is this happening? what am I doing that that is causing this to happen? and a lot of times sarcasm from the podium And and I see this from time to time in different places and I've had to tell a few directors, like, You're very sarcastic with your students and they are not responding to Tina Parr: No, 'cause it's not positive. No. And I I've been yeah, it is Chris: it's not positive. And maybe you think that it that it's funny or that they they understand you're joking around, but they really don't, Tina Parr: No, they don't. Chris: and so you have to be very careful about what you're modeling because if things like that are happening, it could be something that you're modeling. It Tina Parr: Yeah. Chris: could be something that's just in the culture of the school that you've got to, fix. Tina Parr: Well and also if you're a brand new director or the staff is brand new, for the school year and Chris: Yeah. Tina Parr: there's some things in the culture or what they do and how they enter the room and you know, all of that. And it and you're having to change things and change the cultures. you have to start from day one and then also like different things. It's kinda like baby steps throughout the first part of the year to get that culture, you know, where Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Tina Parr: you would like it to be, to be very professional and respectful to each other and starting the shuffling and It's okay to make mistakes, but sometimes directors have to go through that because it's their first time. I've also heard sometimes when directors saying, Well, my advanced band, I can joke with them more, or I can do this with because whatever I have that relationship, and I I I can see that, and it's that has been a part of my career too, that each band or each level you can, joke with more or whatever. Chris: Different. Yeah. Tina Parr: But but the sarcasm or making them feel bad about themselves or making a joke about a student, That's not part of that at all. It may be Chris: No, it's not. It's not. Tina Parr: that you can s say more jokes or dad jokes or whatever, with that group because they could immediately go right back to rehearsal mode. that that's the part that I think can be different for a more advanced group, but not the sarcasm. Chris: No, not the not the sarcasm. And we all have to develop culture and it doesn't matter where you go, how successful the program's been or whatever. There's just sometimes there's some things in the culture that still need to be addressed, or maybe you're not comfortable with, But a strong band culture to me is not simply a group of students who behave. and we we talked about this a few weeks ago, but it's a Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Chris: group of students who take responsibility for their learning and for one another. Tina Parr: Right. Chris: And I think that's that's where we have to, focus our attention to is you may have a group of students who behave but still not have a strong culture. And I see that from time to time. Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Chris: and so you have to assess is it is it a great culture or are they just afraid to be in trouble? Tina Parr: Right, right. Because you can see Chris: And so there's a difference. There's a difference there. Tina Parr: if they're enjoying what they're doing or they're just going through the motions. Very much Chris: Yes, exactly. Tina Parr: so. Anybody really can see that, because are they engaging back with you? Are you asking the questions? Chris: Yes. Tina Parr: Are are they immediately nonverbally, going to where they need to be, sitting, holding their instrument, stands in the right spot, all of those details, binders open. anyone that walks in the room that you walk behind the band, and walk Chris: Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: around, you can see are they all open to that page. They all have their Chris: Yes, yes. Tina Parr: pencil on the stand. it's all of that. You can really see if they're if they're enjoying it and actively engaged in what they're doing. Chris: Right. Exactly. Well and all that leads us into part four of the T test rubric, which is professional practices. the director is a lifelong learner, and that's really what this is about. it talks Tina Parr: Right. Chris: about professional practices, professional demeanor and ethics. And these are some basic things that I think we should understand. model punctuality. We expect that from our students, but we have to model that. Model preparation, Tina Parr: Right. Mm-hmm. Chris: model appropriate communication, model professional conduct. Okay. So if we expect that from our students, we have to model that. Follow campus and district policies. And there's people in every profession that like to to break the rules and push the boundaries and all that stuff. That doesn't serve you well. That's usually those folks who move from one job to another job. And maybe they blame everything on administration. Tina Parr: Well, the big thing is there's always different things, problems, things we don't agree with, any place you teach. Chris: Any place you go. Yep. Tina Parr: Yes, any place you go. And and then it's up to you to change that culture and to follow whatever the school does. if they interrupt your class a lot, with phone calls and things like that. You just have to go on and you have to make it work, because there's just different little things here or big things here. But you make it work and you advocate for your students and you're very professional in what you're doing and you Chris: Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: keep going. Chris: And you build positive relationships with colleagues, families, and administrators. That's going to help you a lot. Tina Parr: Yes. Yes. Yeah. And also you you yeah, get out of the band hall some. Go eat in different places. Go visit the front office, also building that relation with your front office. workers, whatever their role is, bring them cookies sometimes. I'm serious, and donuts for helping you, especially if they do something, for you that's so special. And the custodian, same thing, you think, they see you and you're like, thank you for cleaning that up or whatever. It's just part of building the relationship you're building with everyone on the campus. Chris: Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: And become friends with some of the other teachers. if it's in the fine arts department, out of the fine arts department, but get involved with that. Be positive with everyone. Chris: Well, and I always had, several teachers on campus that were also band parents. You know, Tina Parr: Y that's a good one, yeah. Chris: and just start with that, and go from there. Tina Parr: Yep. Chris: but yeah, having those those relationships is just gonna help you. it's not gonna hinder you to have positive relationships with your colleagues. goal setting and reflection, and again, this is something we've talked about on previous podcasts, but reflect Tina Parr: Right. Chris: daily or weekly. On what worked and what needs improvement, use student assessment results, supervisor feedback, peer input to establish goals. Tina Parr: and administrators love to see the posters. The Chris: Yeah. Tina Parr: posters where you have everyone the kids' names and by grade level or group Chris: Uh-huh. Tina Parr: or whatever and they're putting stickers and you know, I always had stickers hanging up there where once they reach that goal, the student would put the sticker or did they Chris: Right, right. Tina Parr: attend this or did they do whatever? And having goals like that direct they love Chris: Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: walking in there. And I've even had like administrators come in and say, The flutes are doing, they're they're they're doing way more on this poster than the rest of the band. What's up with the rest of your band? And I'd go, hey band, what's up with the rest of it? it's like, can you catch up Chris: Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. Tina Parr: to the flutes? and that's just one example. They said that out loud, Chris: Yeah. Right. Tina Parr: And so it was very encouraging for the students to want to, catch up to the flutes and making it competitive, but they could see the graph on the wall, because that's what it is. Chris: Right. Well, and identifying specific changes to your Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Chris: instructional practices and then collecting evidence that those changes improve student learning. my example of that is when we would have Taco Tuesday tutorials, Tina Parr: yeah. Chris: and we would have kids come in and have student leaders helping them with their grades, students who were in danger of failing for six weeks. and that had a massive impact on student learning because A, they passed their classes and B, they were able to continue learning, and performing in band and doing those things. And the Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Chris: the principal was amazed by it, you know. Tina Parr: Right. Chris: and we did it in the cafeteria where the principal could see what was going on, and then they would come in and be like, Wow, this is amazing. I wish everybody would. would invest in something like this. But it was just in house, in the van program and we did those things. Had the taco tacos donated. Yeah. Tina Parr: Right. And you even had the tacos donated, correct? Yeah, yeah. Chris: So a couple of of just discussion questions, and this we're not going to really discuss these, but just maybe reflection questions. When was the last time you changed a rehearsal strategy because the results were not what you expected? Do we set professional goals that genuinely change our teaching or simply goals that look good on an evaluation form? And I think that's the the biggest thing I wanna say about this whole thing is we're not doing this T test stuff as a means to score well on your evaluation. It is for you to actually be teaching at a distinguished level on a daily basis. And to Tina Parr: Right. It is. Chris: know that, what we're talking about is really tried and true techniques that is going to help your band elevate to a distinguished level of performance. so it's not just and because like I talked about in the in the first episode of this, I've was not a big believer in this type of of evaluation, nor did I ever really get evaluated on this very often. but that's why I chose to, write the book and figure out how we can use this and actually daily Tina Parr: Daily. Yeah. Chris: to become better band directors and not just meet a certain level on an evaluation that happens once a year. And that's what I want everybody to understand is this Tina Parr: Right. Chris: is not Focused towards your one-time evaluation. This is a focused on becoming a daily distinguished band director. And then how can experienced directors remain open to learn new learning methods? Right? So Tina Parr: Right. Yeah. Chris: we get a lot of times we're stuck in our ways and we want to do things the same way. Times change, students change. We have to change as well if we want to remain effective. So, practical application of all of this, okay, the Distinguished Rehearsal Challenge. so we're going to challenge you guys to evaluate one rehearsal that you will teach during the coming week. And there's five questions that I think you should ask yourself before that rehearsal. Number one, can I clearly identify what students will learn today? Number two, have I planned specific musical objectives and activities? Number three, How will I assess individual student understanding? Number four, what will I do if students do not understand the concept? And number five, how will students take ownership of their learning? So closing thoughts and call to action. If your students described your teaching, would they say you helped them play the music or help them become better musicians? Tina Parr: Yes. Yeah, and I like I would tell the students that one of my biggest goals for them was that they were independent musicians, that Chris: Yes. Tina Parr: they could find a piece of music anywhere, online, whatever, and they could know what the key signature is, know what the style was, understand the time signature and be able to figure out how to play it, and feel confident with what the tools that they were given. in class every day could encourage them to try to learn that piece and to be the musician that could go, I get it, And and also a lot of students will find stuff that they they relate to, video game music or whatever Chris: Right. Tina Parr: they're they're into. And then they know that's what it sounds like and that's what it is. And I I I really love this and I can do that. But just, could they say that that's what they've learned to do? that they can be problemat Yeah. Chris: So just to summarize the four major principles of the last two podcasts, the planning, know what students need to learn. Instruction, teach in ways that help every student improve. So a lot of that is teaching more more than one way, very, very your teaching strategies. Tina Parr: Mm-hmm, yes. Chris: learning environment, build routines, relationships, and a culture that supports learning. And that involves mistakes. How Tina Parr: Right. Chris: you know, mistakes are part of the learning process. Tina Parr: Yeah. And how we recover. Yep. Yeah. Chris: And then and how we recover, and then professional practices reflect, adjust, and keep growing. Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Chris: So the goal isn't simply to learn to earn a distinguished rating. The goal is to become a more effective teacher whose students grow musically, academically, and personally. The evaluation should reflect the quality of the teaching, not become the reason for it. So I invite listeners, I would love for you to share. The T-test dimension that they want to improve the most. And I encourage you to explore Level Up, which is my book on my website, McClellanBand Consulting.com, which is basically all of these strategies that we've talked about put into what this looks like in a band hall versus what the rubric says on the T-test side. Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Chris: And then I also have a workbook in there that you can use to help yourself grow in each of these dimensions. So I hope that you will check that out. So that's all we have for episode 13, And I hope that you guys have learned something. Please let us know again if we can help you in any way. if you have any feedback for us, we'd love to hear all of that. Tina? Tina Parr: Right. And if you need to change anything that you're doing, just try it. Just try some of the suggestions. Try one one day and maybe add to it. just to get better and better, better every day with your students, relationship, playing, being a role model, all of that. Chris: Right. 'Cause 'cause I totally I think and we totally believe that teaching is a lifelong learning profession. Tina Parr: It is because things change and you just have to change Chris: Have things change. Tina Parr: with it and Chris: And we're doing this podcast and I've written these books, but I learn new things every day still. And that's Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Me too. Chris: and that's my goal, is to each day when I go into a school, I'm always looking for something that I can learn from. something Tina Parr: Yes. Chris: that I haven't seen before that I can put into my bag of tricks, and it there's always something. So Tina Parr: Mm-hmm. Yes. always different ways to to put things and yeah. And it helps you reach all Chris: Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Tina Parr: types of learners. Chris: All right. Well, that's it for this podcast. We'll see you guys next week. Tina Parr: Awesome. Bye.