Latest / All The Right Movies / The Best of ATRM: June-Nov 2025

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The Best of ATRM: June-Nov 2025 · All The Right Movies

• 0:11
  Hello everyone, Thanks for tuning into all the right
• 0:13
  movies. I'm Luke.
• 0:14
  We're taking a little break from normal proceedings this week and
• 0:17
  we're delving into our podcast archive and pulling out some
• 0:20
  highlights from the last 12 months or so.
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  In that time, we've traversed the movie landscape from Middle
• 0:24
  Earth to Grosse Pointe to the River Kwai.
• 0:27
  We've delved deep into two historical epics, gone on the
• 0:30
  run with Doctor Richard Kimball and being taken on a training
• 0:32
  day by Detective Alonzo Harris. If you like what you hear, you
• 0:36
  can listen to the full episodes of all of these shows wherever
• 0:38
  you listen to podcasts. And to listen to all of the
• 0:40
  podcasts that we've produced, you can become an ATRM patron.
• 0:44
  Listen to our entire classic podcast archive by becoming a
• 0:47
  patron on Apple Podcast and Spotify.
• 0:49
  And for the full experience, you can sign up on Patreon and
• 0:52
  YouTube for all of the classic shows, plus the exclusive
• 0:55
  podcasts that we record for our patrons.
• 0:57
  That's around an additional 100 podcasts, including brand new
• 1:01
  monthly shows of our podcast double feature and the watch
• 1:03
  list. But for the time being, we hope
• 1:06
  you enjoy looking back into the past with ATRM.
• 1:11
  The Lord of the Rings. The Fellowship of the Ring.
• 1:15
  The Fellowship of the Ring drops us into Tolkien's fantasy world
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  through the lens of Peter Jackson.
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  Like a bomb. It does.
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  We're going to be talking main character introductions, the
• 1:23
  start of Frodo's journey, and the arrival of the Ring race.
• 1:26
  But before that we get a bit of back story.
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  Just a little bit. Just a touch.
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  So the film opens with the longest prologue ever, Cate
• 1:34
  Blanchett as the Alvin Lady Galadriel narrators through
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  thousands of years of Middle Earth history and the story of
• 1:40
  the One Ring. We see the forging of the Rings
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  of Power, the war games, the Dark Lord Sauron and the tales
• 1:45
  of previous ring bearers ISIL do Gollum and Billboard Baggins.
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  Yeah, Matt, quite the opening. This isn't it.
• 1:52
  Just a little bit. It's not going to hold your
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  hand. This film, this is full on.
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  This is the world we're in. This is who we're talking about.
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  And if you don't understand the seriousness, you do when you get
• 2:02
  that glimpse of that battle with Sauron.
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  I mean, that bit itself, it's only about two minutes long, but
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  it's already got such an epic scope that you go, hang on,
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  they're doing this in the 1st 5 minutes.
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  Where is this going to go from here?
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  Because that shot where the camera just drops from the Cliff
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  edge where you've got all the arcs being shot down with the
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  arrows and it follows over the top of the army charging towards
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  the elves and the men. I've never seen anything like it
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  before, certainly not in the 1st 5 minutes of anything.
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  And it does. I think that Jackson is really,
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  really great at in these battle scenes where the epic and scope,
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  but he always picks out a little detail that sticks out in here.
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  It's when the left fly with the arrows in one whizzes lost
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  Elrond so close it flicks his hair up and he gives a little
• 2:44
  flinch. Yeah.
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  So this is just exposition and action blended perfectly.
• 2:48
  And like I say, the 1st 5 minutes, this is ridiculous.
• 2:51
  Yeah, it really is. From the very beginning, the
• 2:54
  film starts with a black screen. For about 30 seconds we're
• 2:56
  yelling an elvish woman speaking, and then that gets
• 2:59
  translated by Cate Blanchett to English.
• 3:01
  And then that like burnt gold Lord of the Rings logo phase in.
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  Yeah, I love it. I'm in and nothing's happened
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  yet. Just a logo, yeah.
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  As a prologue, it's insane. The scale is there instantly 7
• 3:13
  minutes long, tells a story that's worthy of like a 12 hour
• 3:17
  trilogy in its own right. Yeah.
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  And just the visuals to show us that battle, The Battle of the
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  last Lions, it's called. And you mentioned it, Matt, that
• 3:24
  helicopter style CGI shot of the thousands of orcs pouring down
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  Mount Doom with a huge choir in the score.
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  How big is that? Yeah.
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  It's like 90 seconds in or something.
• 3:33
  Yeah. I mean, some opener tells us
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  everything we need to know about the world, the rings, Sauron,
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  orcs, elves, golem in his cave. It's world building about as
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  good as it gets, I think. And we see the benefits of the
• 3:45
  huge production in the first few minutes.
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  When we do see in here Gollum, it's Gollum.
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  They haven't dropped him in here, then had to go away and
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  design him and cast him for the next film.
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  So it all flows perfectly. And I think as a prologue, it's
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  like borderline masterpiece to be honest.
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  It sets up themes, it establishes the world.
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  It's ginormous and it's thrilling.
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  A fitting way to start a Lord of the Rings trilogy.
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  Yeah, every time I watch that opening battle sequence, I
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  think, oh, we're going to see this later.
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  Yeah, this is just a clip. Surely this is big enough where
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  it's like the set piece and I will see it again and you never
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  can see it again. That's it.
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  This is the starter. This is the starter that's like
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  this is your chicken tikka and that's it.
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  The curry's coming up. You just got to wait for it.
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  It's just unbelievable how this is just a part of the prologue
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  and it is so big in scale and just so epic.
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  But then them shots of the Misty Mountains.
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  Oh, beautiful. It starts with such a powerful
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  confidence. This is the dialogue, this is
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  the accent, this is how we're going to shoot it.
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  This is an action set piece right at the top.
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  It's a film in itself, to be honest, and Kate Blanchett's
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  voice over is just absolutely glorious.
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  It is beautiful. The vision is there from frame
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  1, isn't it? Totally.
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  That's it. This is the vision.
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  This is what we're doing. It's just consistently
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  brilliant. I agree.
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  Yeah, and when writing the film, Jackson knew early on there'd be
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  prologue as as we've been saying, there's a lot of
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  exposition to set up. Yeah, he gave her the Philip of
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  Boyens to write and told her she had 4 pages to do it.
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  Jackson then decided he didn't want to start with the prologue,
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  but when they put it in front of new line, their one piece of non
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  negotiable feedback was him. Must be prologue.
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  The best studio note ever. Yeah, I know, right.
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  I mean, of course, I had to be 1.
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  Now we have it. I think Jackson was apparently
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  planning on starting just with Billbo's monologue about hobbits
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  that we get straight after the prologue.
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  Right. So a slightly softer opening.
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  But the way it transitioned from the prologue to that bit.
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  Glad Real says for the time will soon come when hobbits will
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  shape the fortunes of all. And that crossed us all from
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  the, like, sweeping mountains to the mountains on the famous
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  Tolkin map. Yeah.
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  Yeah. And then it panned from the
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  whole map and up to reveal Billbo and back end.
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  Yeah. What a shot.
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  That is unbelievable, incredible.
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  The narration was originally read by Frodo speaking at the
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  end of the trilogy. That then changed to Gandalf
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  narrating. Jackson didn't like either of
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  them narrating as they weren't alive during the events.
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  So you had the idea of using Galadriel as it showed the
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  immortality of the elves, which I think is a lovely touch.
• 6:05
  It is, yeah. And the dialogue is really,
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  like, theatrical and dramatic. Obviously it's supposed to be.
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  A wonderful bedtime story, isn't it?
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  Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, some of that can handle
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  that better than most. And one of them is Cate
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  Blanchett. Her narrations fantastic.
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  I love it when she's like, they were all of them deceived.
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  Yeah, brilliant. That could be laughable in
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  someone elses hands. It's perfect.
• 6:27
  Yeah, it's great. And we only see Saron for about
• 6:30
  one minute of screen time here. But create them was still a
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  massive job. Jacksons Effect studio Wet
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  Workshop did the design and constructed the suit from Real
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  Steel. It was so complex that it took
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  six weeks to build it and the guy inside the suit was in New
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  Zealand. Stoneman called Salah Baker.
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  He said playing Saron was the greatest thing that ever
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  happened to him. Wow.
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  I mean, it's a great thing to tell people, isn't it?
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  I was Saron. I was.
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  But anyone could do that. Yeah, well, good.
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  That was Saron. Well, Salah Bake, I said.
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  The Jackson's acting brief to him was really simple.
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  You just said Darth Vader has got nothing on you.
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  Wow. Nice.
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  Perfect. Slamming people everywhere,
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  people just disappear, and when he's swinging at them, it's just
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  so good. Yeah, there were a few cast and
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  crew cameos in the prologue as well.
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  Crew members from the effects team went a workshop, played a
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  few of the elf warriors during the battle.
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  The seven dwarf Lords are mostly what?
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  A workshop Crew members, obviously.
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  I mean, they look like what a workshop crew members as I would
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  imagine them to be anyway. And one of the concept
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  designers, Alan Lee, plays one of the 9 Kings of Men.
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  Yeah, we'll talk a bit more about Alan Lee and what a
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  workshop later, but that bit with the 9 Kings?
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  Glad Real says nine rings were given to the race of men who,
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  above all else, desire power. Well, don't give any to them
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  then. Yeah.
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  Certainly don't give them nine asking about trouble, but we do
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  find out later with someone who made the rings, so fair enough.
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  Yeah, yeah. And that's our rebic opening
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  prologue, The history of Middle Earth up to now.
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  Yeah, we've seen the rings power.
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  Time to see where that power leads, I think.
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  Yep. Let's see.
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  It the film then properly begins 7 1/2 minutes in.
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  Yeah, we see Bag End, home of the Baggins, is Hobbit in their
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  village within the Shire, and Gandalf arrive for Billboard's
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  birthday party. Yeah, we meet Sam, played by
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  Sean Astin, Mary, played by Dominic Monaghan, and Pippen,
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  played by Billy Boyd here as well, before Gandalf sent
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  through to a packing and off on his journey with the ring.
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  I can definitely see you living in The Hobbit and Matt.
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  Love it so much, do you know that?
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  So what do you think of it? Just root vegetables all day
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  long. Amazing.
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  It's the contrast in Gandalf's behavior that's so effective.
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  He because when he first turns up, he's just quite this very
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  jovial character, quite funny. And then when he comes back, he
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  looks so incredibly rattled and paranoid.
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  And, you know, just the change, The Hobbit in itself, you know,
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  the darkness that it's now shrouded in.
• 8:55
  And when Gandalf takes the ring out of the fire and he asks
• 8:57
  Frauda if he sees anything on it, and he says, oh, there's
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  nothing. No, wait.
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  The way that McKellen plays that expression on Gandalf's face
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  from relief to quiet despair is so good because it's that thing,
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  that love, when you see it in a film where there's no dialogue
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  being or every thought that the character's thinking.
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  And he with Gandalf, it's, Oh, no, this is the worst possible
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  outcome. And as well, you just get great
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  sound design. He as well.
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  All those whispers you hear coming from the Ring, along with
• 9:23
  those amazing close-ups of it. I love all that.
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  It gives it a genuine presence as a character, which needs to
• 9:28
  be. And this moment really lands in
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  terms of this is when you start to take this seriously because
• 9:33
  everything in Hobbit and so far, it's just been really kind of
• 9:35
  light and bucolic. And now it gets dark.
• 9:38
  Yeah. Well, I call this give us a
• 9:39
  sense of like shy life, which is just everyone getting pissed.
• 9:43
  It seems like amazing. Yeah.
• 9:45
  Billboards won the 11th birthday party is just a massive session.
• 9:50
  That line delivery, it's my 111th birthday.
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  It's like Glastonbury. Everyone's off the right, but
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  it's nicely done because it makes you care about the Shire.
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  You see why it's worth saving. And that motivation gets
• 10:03
  mentioned by the hobbits throughout the whole trilogy.
• 10:05
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 10:06
  So the party is great, but after the party, how cool is that shot
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  in Bag End before Bilbo leaves, where he drops the ring and it
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  just, like, sticks to the floor with a thud.
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  Yeah. What an image.
• 10:16
  No exposition needed. We know those things going on.
• 10:18
  Yeah. But the scene for me is when
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  Gandalf returns that you're talking about Matt to see Frodo
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  having done his research on the Ring.
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  He's all wild eyes and crazy. It's great.
• 10:26
  Yeah. Yeah.
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  Too much of the halflings leaf. Absolutely not enough.
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  And there's a cutaway scene where we suddenly cut the Mordor
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  and Gollum being tortured, and he's like Shire Baggins.
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  And the tone suddenly shifts completely.
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  We move from like the cozy Shire to the horror of Mordor.
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  And it's totally seamless. And that little montage where
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  Frodo was like, but that would lead them here.
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  And we're cutting back and forth of the ring waste on the way.
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  That is fantastic. The stakes get raised just from
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  that. I think it's some great
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  storytelling that sets the scene for everything, really.
• 10:58
  When Jackson was cast of the film, he considered hiring
• 11:00
  Sylvester McCoy is billboard before set them on Ian Holm.
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  Holm had already voiced Frodo Baggins in a BBC Radio
• 11:06
  adaptation of Lord of the Rings, and McCoy later played Radicast
• 11:09
  the Brown in Jackson's The Hobbit trilogy.
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  He did that radio version. Sam was played by Bill Nye.
• 11:15
  Well, nice. I like it already.
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  Just run it under a cool tap. And the writers played around
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  with the timelines from the original books and these scenes.
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  In the novel, the time between Gandalf leaving after Billbo's
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  party, going to Gondor to get information about the ring and
• 11:33
  then returning to back end is 17 years.
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  And in the film, Frodo and Sam leave the shy with the ring the
• 11:39
  same night Gandalf visits him, but in the novel it's months
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  later. He was in nor rush Tolkien, was
• 11:45
  he? No. 17 years old.
• 11:47
  Yeah, the right decision to change that storytelling wise,
• 11:49
  surely. Yeah.
• 11:50
  Yeah, absolutely. And they don't tell us.
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  But that's Ministerith, the Gandalf visit in Gondor.
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  We spend a lot more time there in the Return of the King.
• 11:57
  Yeah, we mentioned the moment the ring sticks to the floor in
• 12:00
  Bag End, and they did that by making the floor magnetic so it
• 12:03
  didn't bounce Great. And the ring itself was made by
• 12:05
  a renowned New Zealand Goldsmith called Jens Hansen and the look
• 12:09
  of it was based on the wedding ring of Rick Porras who was the
• 12:12
  Co producer on the film. One Rick to rule them all.
• 12:15
  I mean, don't wedding rings just look like wedding rings?
• 12:18
  Well, I think it looks great. I think it looks exactly what it
• 12:20
  needs to be. It's like simple but majestic.
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  Yeah, it's kind of square at the same time.
• 12:25
  It's got like an edge. Yeah, yeah.
• 12:26
  Kind of weird, yeah. Yeah, I love it when Gandalf
• 12:28
  throws it in the fire and the words in like Black Speech
• 12:30
  appear on it with the One Ring to rule them all stuff.
• 12:33
  They're obviously really famous words from the book that have to
• 12:35
  be in there, and they're doing such a cinematic way.
• 12:37
  It's fantastic. Yeah, did.
• 12:38
  Everyone one buy one from forbidden planet when they came
• 12:41
  out. No.
• 12:42
  Put it in a little thing and it lit up.
• 12:43
  It was like I'm having. That, oh, did it right.
• 12:45
  It's great. So Hobbiton was built in its
• 12:48
  entirety as a village on a family farm near Matatama in New
• 12:51
  Zealand, and it was overseen by the production designer Grant
• 12:55
  Major in art director Dan Henner.
• 12:57
  It had 28 separate Hobbit halls, and each one had to be
• 13:00
  different. It was built a year before
• 13:02
  production began to make it look like a lived in place and had
• 13:05
  real vegetable patches and the large tree that stands over back
• 13:08
  end that was built especially by the production team.
• 13:11
  Every single leaf had to be manually attached.
• 13:13
  No wonder it took 438 days to film.
• 13:16
  Half the time was building that tree.
• 13:20
  Well, you see behind the scenes footage even before the start
• 13:22
  building sets. That location looks like
• 13:24
  Hobbiton. Yeah, like lush greens and clear
• 13:27
  lakes. Like a stunning place.
• 13:29
  Yeah, it's fantastic stuff. I mean, was the no anxiety
• 13:31
  attached to make in this film whatsoever Like a year before?
• 13:35
  I change my mind every 7 minutes with anything.
• 13:38
  So that's being built. You just look at it again, go
• 13:40
  out. It's not what I fancied
• 13:41
  actually. Exactly in the scene.
• 13:43
  Yeah. And then after production
• 13:45
  wrapped, the Hobbiton sets weren't destroyed, the family
• 13:47
  farm stayed open and Hobbiton remained there.
• 13:49
  So to subtraction. And you can actually walk
• 13:51
  through The Hobbit halls and visit the Green Dragon Inn.
• 13:53
  Brilliant. Well, there you go, Matt.
• 13:55
  If you want to live in Hobbit, and you can absolutely want to,
• 13:57
  I'd love to go there. Someone's brilliant.
• 13:59
  Yeah, be unreal. And there were two sets built of
• 14:02
  back end, one was built for Ian Holm and Elijah Wood and the
• 14:05
  other was 33% smaller for Ian McKellen which was to make
• 14:09
  Gandalf look much bigger than the Hobbit's.
• 14:11
  And they also used a 7 foot 4 actor called Paul Randall to
• 14:14
  stand in for McKellen and some of the shots.
• 14:16
  Tall Paul. He was known as, obviously. 33%
• 14:21
  like you figured that out. Somebody did.
• 14:25
  I would have. Just spent 35.
• 14:27
  You know what? I.
• 14:27
  Mean, But also that moment where Gandalf turned and banged his
• 14:31
  head on the ceiling. The other start.
• 14:32
  Yeah, that wasn't in the script. You.
• 14:34
  Mccullen had lived it and Jackson kept in the film.
• 14:36
  You actually thought it was real.
• 14:37
  All right. Brilliant.
• 14:39
  So after that, Gandalf's going to need a little bit of help, so
• 14:41
  he goes to his old friend Saruman, let's say Christa
• 14:44
  Valley here. And he is so right for this
• 14:46
  part, it's unbelievable. But he looks amazing.
• 14:49
  He sounds amazing. But what I love is the dialogue
• 14:52
  between them here and how beautifully it's delivered and
• 14:54
  how seriously everyone takes it was like, tell me, friend, when
• 14:58
  did Saruman the Wise abandoned reason for madness?
• 15:01
  Yeah. Yeah, yes.
• 15:02
  I mean, what a ridiculous line to pull it off.
• 15:04
  No problem. Exactly.
• 15:05
  It's just incredibly Moorish for me.
• 15:08
  It's just wonderful. These two absolute legends rule
• 15:13
  on the screen. And what Jackson said as well,
• 15:15
  that he hated like Wizards in film and he hated magic in film,
• 15:19
  and he didn't actually want to put that across.
• 15:21
  So there's just the lack of like the lightning bolts and the blue
• 15:24
  fire and all of this stuff flying everywhere.
• 15:26
  This is literally like 2 old guys kicking the shit out of
• 15:29
  each other. In the pool.
• 15:31
  Feel the bones snapping, but it's like, and it wasn't up
• 15:34
  until this fight sequence where I went, oh, this is a Peter
• 15:37
  Jackson film because he does that push in on that wide angle
• 15:40
  lens in the ceremony. It's just warm.
• 15:42
  It's like a 12 mil or something stupid.
• 15:44
  Great. Yeah, that's Peter Jackson.
• 15:45
  This is a Peter Jackson film. Then there's that cut the black
• 15:47
  and you just like, what about your scene?
• 15:49
  What's going on? It just pulls it in.
• 15:51
  And these two, when they're acting together, is always an
• 15:54
  absolute joy. In this scene for me, I just
• 15:56
  felt like I was getting pulled in slowly each time, just like
• 15:59
  the rope was pulling us. And this one was a big, big push
• 16:02
  forward. It was really, really, really,
• 16:03
  really good. All of it as well, just the way
• 16:06
  it starts, that overhead shot of Gandalf galloping into Eisengard
• 16:09
  to start it all. That's great.
• 16:11
  And it is obviously always a joy to see.
• 16:12
  Christopher Lee. Definitely.
• 16:14
  Yeah. Is Sarah Man in his late 70s at
• 16:16
  this point. And I think he's fantastic.
• 16:18
  I like it when he gives Gandalf some crap.
• 16:20
  Like your love for the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your
• 16:23
  mind. Too many bongs for Gandalf?
• 16:28
  No, we went missing for 17 years and the fight scene is
• 16:33
  brilliantly put together, obviously using stuntmen for
• 16:35
  parts of it as Gandalf and Sarman up throwing each other
• 16:37
  all over the place. I think it's most of it, but
• 16:39
  it's great though because they can totally cover them up with
• 16:41
  long hair and beards and it's just you can do what you want
• 16:43
  with the guys. I think it's just an excellent
• 16:45
  job. It's seamless.
• 16:46
  It is seamless the way they cook between the stonework and then
• 16:48
  McKellen and Lee for the close-ups.
• 16:49
  It is fantastic. Yeah.
• 16:51
  Love Sarman and this whole like intro to him.
• 16:53
  Brilliant. Yeah, he's great.
• 16:55
  And Sarah Man's Tow in Isengard, it's called Orthank.
• 16:59
  It's all from the book, but Jackson needed it all created
• 17:01
  from scratch. So one of the concept designers,
• 17:04
  Alan Lee, he'd done a sketch of Orthank for the Centenary Book
• 17:07
  edition of Lord of the Rings that showed part of the tower.
• 17:10
  Jackson told him to finish the drawing and based on that
• 17:13
  illustration where the workshop created a miniature of Orthank
• 17:16
  which was 15 feet high with a 65 foot circular fortress.
• 17:20
  The towel was carved and then cast in resin to create that
• 17:23
  black volcanic glass of payments that it has and would film the
• 17:27
  model using motion control filming.
• 17:29
  Amazing 33% resin. I mean techniques that were
• 17:35
  already about 30 plus years old by this point, but how good does
• 17:39
  it look? It's ridiculous.
• 17:40
  Amazing. It kind of look any better,
• 17:42
  that's how good it looks. Yeah, I couldn't.
• 17:44
  I mean, we'll talk more about the practical effects work
• 17:45
  later, but there's a shot before this we talked about when
• 17:47
  Gorman's being tortured, the establishing shot, like, pans
• 17:51
  down this enormous scale model of Baradur.
• 17:53
  Yeah, those miniature shots, this Lord through the trilogy,
• 17:56
  they are breathtaking. I've not seen anything like it
• 17:59
  anywhere else, I don't think. Yeah, totally agree.
• 18:01
  Incredible. The interior scenes in Orthang
• 18:04
  between Gandalf and Saruman were filmed on a set.
• 18:06
  Ian McAllen said he'd never been on a set like it before because
• 18:09
  it had been designed to be really angular and sharp, to
• 18:12
  create a castle in a horror movie kind of feel.
• 18:15
  And Christopher Lee said that the steps of the Saruman's
• 18:17
  throne was so steep he had trouble climbing.
• 18:19
  But to be fair, Christopher Lee, be like, just like home.
• 18:22
  Yeah, probably, yeah. Yeah, I'm used to this.
• 18:26
  Yeah, great set though, isn't it?
• 18:27
  Oh, that's wonderful. Yeah.
• 18:28
  So am I sitting really angular and uncomfortable?
• 18:33
  No one stays too long. No one stays too long.
• 18:36
  Slide out the door. And just after this we see Sarah
• 18:40
  Man breeding the Urakai which was stronger type of hawk.
• 18:43
  In the books talking suggests they are a cross breed of Orks
• 18:46
  and men. But here we see them being bred
• 18:49
  and birthed in pods beneath Isengarde.
• 18:51
  And the Ork workers we see beneath Isengarde.
• 18:53
  They were all played by weather workshop staff who did as.
• 18:56
  We'll discuss all the practical effects on the film.
• 18:58
  Yeah. Yeah, seen them pulled from the
• 19:01
  mud, covered in that like membrane substance.
• 19:03
  Great visuals. Disgusting though.
• 19:06
  It's horrible, though. Jackson's tapping right into his
• 19:07
  horror movie background there. I think he's loving it.
• 19:09
  That's his favorite bit, yeah. And I love it when Sarah Man
• 19:13
  says to learn. It's the first to Rokai.
• 19:15
  Whom do you serve? Saruman is so great.
• 19:20
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's Gandalf and Starman
• 19:23
  setting some wheels in motion. We've seen Isengard without
• 19:26
  fighting and a Rokai breeding weirdly.
• 19:29
  Yeah, time to meet the Nas goal. Let's do it.
• 19:31
  Or let's do it, yes? After fleeing the Shire with the
• 19:36
  Ring, Frodo and Sam come across Hobbiton's answer to the Likely
• 19:39
  Lads in Mario Dog, Brandy Book and Peregrine Talk.
• 19:42
  Like lads, yeah, that's them. More scary, all the nine former
• 19:47
  kings of men sent from Mordor to find the ring.
• 19:50
  The Ringwraiths. Black Riders.
• 19:53
  Yeah, From hiding in tree roots to the chaos of Buckle Berry
• 19:56
  Ferry W 8. How do these early now school
• 19:58
  scenes work? I mean, I love them.
• 20:00
  I absolutely love these guys. They're just really still out
• 20:03
  for me. But what I always think of is
• 20:04
  like they've been waiting around for ages, like thousands of
• 20:07
  years. Yeah, what they've been doing.
• 20:09
  They say playing. Cards or something have we?
• 20:12
  Found that ring yet? So go.
• 20:13
  And get it or what? It's Super Mario Brothers.
• 20:15
  Just hanging out, the dying for this job and the finally it
• 20:18
  happens and they're straight out and the straight ready for it.
• 20:21
  But that will get off the road sequence.
• 20:23
  It's just so beautifully done cinematically because it's so
• 20:26
  for boarding, you know, they use the vertical shot.
• 20:28
  There's that Dolly zoom in there, which is absolutely
• 20:30
  fantastic because you got the leaves kicked up at the bottom
• 20:33
  and, you know, something's not quite right.
• 20:35
  Peter Jackson says, yeah, it's it's the Hitchcock shot.
• 20:37
  Spielberg's used it a couple of times.
• 20:39
  Of course he has. He's really.
• 20:41
  Kind of like pushing. It down.
• 20:42
  I can't remember where or what film it was.
• 20:45
  I love the fact. That you get the Nazical hearing
• 20:48
  real close up and it's a real sticky kind of close up.
• 20:51
  The Who fit in the ground, you can smell them, like the
• 20:54
  authenticity on them is just absolutely fantastic.
• 20:57
  And I really love the fact that we're watching a composite
• 21:00
  because you've got the hobbits at the bottom.
• 21:02
  Ring Wrath comes past the tree and it's just at the top.
• 21:04
  You can tell that's 2 completely different shots.
• 21:07
  And the beautiful thing about it is I really don't care.
• 21:09
  Like that's just a terrifying. But what I really like is the
• 21:13
  little details here. And when the Ringwraith just
• 21:15
  grabs the tree trunk and all the insects start coming out.
• 21:17
  Oh yeah, lovely. Touch running away and like.
• 21:20
  Jackson was thinking that might be confusing for people,
• 21:22
  thinking that they're kind of scared of it.
• 21:24
  But the way I took it was like they were attracted to it.
• 21:26
  That's how I read it, yeah. Lovely touch a.
• 21:28
  Great introduction to these things, these shadows that are
• 21:31
  chasing them and you just think the hobbits have got absolutely
• 21:34
  no chance against these guys and I love that something.
• 21:38
  I don't really get from this point in the film is that Frodo
• 21:40
  and Sam have already gone a long way.
• 21:42
  They've slept in the woods overnight.
• 21:43
  Yeah. And they just stumble across
• 21:45
  Marion Pippen at Father Maggot Field like they're out for a
• 21:48
  walk. What are they doing there?
• 21:49
  Yeah, That's a good point. Yeah.
• 21:50
  Yeah. But the Nazgul are so cool.
• 21:54
  Yeah. Great idea.
• 21:55
  They look awesome. And their musical theme, that
• 21:57
  choir, I love it. That's very shot of the mid
• 22:01
  Minnes mogul where the doors open.
• 22:03
  Yeah. And they come galloping out in
• 22:04
  all that green light. Is there a better shot than
• 22:06
  that? There's a few, but.
• 22:08
  It's just in this film it only kind of betters itself.
• 22:11
  It reminds me of the Grim Reaper from The Frighteners as well.
• 22:13
  I think it's very PHF. Yeah, but the first.
• 22:15
  Time they were in a proper meaty scene.
• 22:16
  It's probably this when Frodo's like, get off the road.
• 22:19
  Yeah, a great little touch here as well.
• 22:21
  They're under the tree and the Nazcale appears above them.
• 22:23
  The first proper we get at one. Really.
• 22:25
  It walks from behind the tree. But have you noticed that we
• 22:27
  don't want to see a walk past the other side?
• 22:29
  It just kind of appears throughout the tree.
• 22:31
  All right, Yeah. Subtle, but just enough.
• 22:33
  To say these things are normal. Yeah.
• 22:35
  Another nice bit of horror style filmmaking from Jackson, I
• 22:37
  think. Yeah.
• 22:39
  Yeah. And this scene where?
• 22:40
  The hobbits hide under the tree from the Ring race that was
• 22:42
  actually filmed on the very first day of shooting, and it
• 22:45
  was shot in the Parklands in Mount Victorian Wellington, and
• 22:48
  wet air created the whole the Hobbit's hiding, but the path in
• 22:51
  their legs, They were all real and they've since become a
• 22:53
  tourist destination, of course. Like everything else.
• 22:58
  First day of filming. And you're hiding from the race.
• 23:00
  Straight in for Jackson action. Jackson, the Nasco's high.
• 23:05
  Pitched Screen was created by the sound designers Phil Haywood
• 23:08
  and Simon Hewitt. They recorded the Co writer and
• 23:11
  producer Fran Walsh performing the scream and it was then
• 23:13
  edited digitally to make it sound more unearthly.
• 23:16
  They then added sound of two plastic party cups being rubbed
• 23:19
  together to complete it all, which is insane.
• 23:22
  And I think Fran Walsh had a cold at the time, which is why I
• 23:24
  thought it was all gate of raspy and they just kind of utilized
• 23:27
  that scream. Fran.
• 23:29
  Yeah. Well, yeah, it sounds.
• 23:30
  Great. Yeah.
• 23:31
  And that little scene where the Nas goal asks that Hobbit for
• 23:34
  directions, you know, where he's, like, shy?
• 23:36
  You're a baggy. Yeah, that voice is Andy Circus.
• 23:39
  Of course it is. OK, right.
• 23:42
  Hope they've got them, of course.
• 23:43
  Yeah, you could be like excuse. Me mate.
• 23:48
  Yeah, I mean, we've been talking.
• 23:50
  About Jackson's horror roots and wear, the short and the scene at
• 23:52
  the ferry. This for me is the one that
• 23:54
  Hawks back to Jackson being a horror director the most because
• 23:58
  the music, the screeching that we've talked about from the
• 24:01
  NASCAR, that incredible shot where you get that one just
• 24:04
  backlit by the moonlight. Unbelievable.
• 24:07
  Unbelievable. Shot Get.
• 24:08
  Out. Get out.
• 24:09
  Yeah. Run as fast as you.
• 24:10
  Can This is pure horror. It's Sleepy Hollow look.
• 24:13
  Like a fucking Etch A Sketch. Absolutely.
• 24:15
  Does, yeah. And it's such a contrast to
• 24:17
  everything we've seen before because the Shire was so bucolic
• 24:21
  and warm and green. Yeah.
• 24:22
  And it's this real stump the film needs to reinforce.
• 24:25
  And they are so far from home now and so far from safety with
• 24:28
  these Nasco on the heels. And I think it's a really great
• 24:31
  character moment as well, because they're all out of the
• 24:33
  depth. Pippen doesn't have a clue
• 24:35
  what's going on. He's just running away from some
• 24:37
  and he doesn't understand why. But the rise to the occasion
• 24:40
  here, which they continue to do throughout the whole trilogy,
• 24:42
  which is the point of their characters throughout and Mary
• 24:45
  in particular. He works out that day after
• 24:48
  Frodo the Nascal. And as soon as Frodo says he
• 24:51
  needs to leave the China, he doesn't hesitate.
• 24:52
  It's right. It's this way to the ferry.
• 24:54
  He doesn't go. Well, they're after you, not me,
• 24:57
  mate. See you.
• 24:57
  I'm going back to former Maggots field.
• 25:00
  So it's really important moment in binding these four together
• 25:03
  and showing that you know there's more to come from them
• 25:05
  the way the Nasgal. Comes crashing out the fog on
• 25:07
  his horse. Terrifying that.
• 25:09
  Yeah. And I've heard people say it's a
• 25:10
  bit of a plot holder. The Nasgal stops on the pier
• 25:12
  when the ferries, like, 2 feet in front of it or something.
• 25:15
  Like, why doesn't it just jump? Right.
• 25:16
  But it's not because the Nasgal don't like the water.
• 25:18
  Yeah. We'll see that in a later scene,
• 25:20
  don't we? Yeah.
• 25:21
  Yeah. Without which we'll talk about
• 25:22
  obviously and crossing the. Brandywine River is the point at
• 25:25
  which the hobbits officially leave the Shire and the
• 25:28
  Buckleberry Ferry scenes. They were shot at Keeling Farm
• 25:31
  near Manacao. The whole area was stressed and
• 25:33
  rigged to create the river crossing.
• 25:35
  And in one take, Elijah Wood actually overshot his jump and
• 25:38
  ended up in the river instead of on the ferry, right?
• 25:41
  He left over. The ferry?
• 25:42
  Yeah, Carl. Lewis It's a big job that way.
• 25:47
  But I do like that an article. Literally chase the hobbits
• 25:49
  across the border out of the Shire.
• 25:51
  Like out of their home. Yeah, yeah.
• 25:53
  And that is the beginning. Of the beginning of the trilogy,
• 25:56
  the epic prologue, the journey out of the Shire, and from
• 25:58
  birthday parties to black writers.
• 26:03
  The bridge on the river. Kwai.
• 26:07
  The director of the bridge. On the River Kwai was Sir David
• 26:10
  Lean. Yeah.
• 26:11
  This was his 12th feature film, having established himself with
• 26:14
  adaptations of Dickens classics like All of Our Twists and Great
• 26:17
  Expectations, as well as a stone cold movie classic in 1945's
• 26:21
  Brief Encounter. Yeah, Bit of a step up in scale
• 26:24
  with the vision of the river choir, though, Matt.
• 26:26
  Just a bit. So how was David Lean's work
• 26:28
  here? I mean.
• 26:29
  Spielberg's always said Lean is a huge influence on him, and you
• 26:33
  can see why because, well, yeah, just a bit.
• 26:35
  Just a bit. Left right and center left.
• 26:38
  All over the place. Is because this is filmmaking on
• 26:40
  such a grand canvas, but he never gets lost in that canvas.
• 26:44
  And and you said it there, John, it's worth remembering his
• 26:46
  breakthrough film was Brief Encounter, which is such a
• 26:48
  small, intimate film, like everything in that film just
• 26:51
  takes place in living rooms, in cafes.
• 26:53
  This is something else entirely, but it still works because Lean
• 26:58
  nails the emotion. And with Bridge, he combines the
• 27:01
  2. So he can have epic scenes like
• 27:03
  the trek through the jungle to get back to the bridge or the
• 27:05
  countdown to the explosives going off as the train
• 27:07
  approaches. But then he can have scenes like
• 27:09
  we've just talked about the Super with Saito, or Saito
• 27:12
  having that woman to himself where he breaks down in tears
• 27:14
  because he he thinks he's failed.
• 27:16
  And if you look at Lean's filmography, it shouldn't be any
• 27:19
  surprise that he's great at getting performance because
• 27:21
  that's what his reputation was as a director at the time, I
• 27:23
  think. But to then go on to make a film
• 27:25
  with this huge scope entirely on location, He literally done
• 27:29
  nothing like this before, and yet somehow it feels like second
• 27:32
  nature, like he'd been doing it all his life.
• 27:34
  So that ability to juggle the epic and the intimate, to go
• 27:38
  back to Spielberg, I think he said Lawrence of Arabia is one
• 27:41
  of his favorite films, if not his all time favorite, and he
• 27:44
  always watches it before he makes anything.
• 27:47
  But everything Lean does in Lawrence of Arabia, he does here
• 27:49
  first. I think you're right.
• 27:51
  I think he. Does.
• 27:52
  I mean, I watched the film several times, and I've answered
• 27:54
  this episode like we always do. And something that struck me
• 27:57
  more strongly each time about David Lean was that he's not in
• 28:01
  a hurry. Is he a man of great patience?
• 28:04
  Clearly. I mean, in a Hollywood film, the
• 28:06
  first act is typically 30 minutes ish, give or take.
• 28:09
  Yeah, the first act ends when Nicholson is out of the oven and
• 28:12
  was 70 minutes in. Absolutely massive.
• 28:16
  Ridiculous. But that's one of his trademarks
• 28:17
  as a. Director, I think he won't wish
• 28:19
  for anybody. And it's kind of he's genius.
• 28:22
  He lets the narrative unfold gently.
• 28:24
  He builds the tension. He does do the same thing in the
• 28:26
  legendary film a few years later.
• 28:28
  And I think you're right, Mark, quite definitely a forwarder to
• 28:30
  Lawrence of Arabia. Yeah, absolutely.
• 28:32
  It's not just the careful. Plotting every shot feels
• 28:35
  meticulously planned. The aerial view to the jungle
• 28:37
  that we talked about, the way that he frames characters
• 28:39
  against huge backdrops, which we're going to do later when we
• 28:42
  talk about the DP. But nothing feels like ad hoc,
• 28:45
  off the cuff. How the film looks Feels very
• 28:47
  deliberate, yeah, But never, like, lifeless either.
• 28:49
  Never robotic, I think the control that Lean has over the
• 28:52
  whole production just jumps off the screen.
• 28:54
  To me, he's juggling this massive cast with big names,
• 28:57
  shooting in the jungle, dealing with a mod managed producer like
• 29:00
  Sam Spiegel breathing down his neck, and it still feels like
• 29:03
  every frame looks just how he wanted it to when he planted
• 29:06
  months before. Yeah, I mean that's impressive,
• 29:08
  but there's also a great handling of tones.
• 29:09
  We'll go from psychological drama in the camp to the
• 29:12
  outrageous boys own style escape adventure with She Has.
• 29:16
  That's Boys own, not Boys Own, obviously.
• 29:18
  Yeah, Veronica Keaton's not. Forgot that, that's fine.
• 29:20
  I. Mean they could have felt like.
• 29:22
  Different films, but lean we used to all together kind of
• 29:24
  like the master that he's known as.
• 29:26
  Yeah. So great director.
• 29:27
  And this is where we see him, I think, transitioning from that
• 29:30
  kind of intimate filmmaker of Brief Encounter to the epic
• 29:33
  storyteller of Lawrence of Arabia.
• 29:35
  Yeah. And he makes that shift look
• 29:36
  kind of effortless, I think as well.
• 29:38
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 29:39
  I mean bizarrely. Enough lean on me.
• 29:42
  I think this is an intimate. Film.
• 29:44
  Yeah, bizarrely enough, it is very, very intimate.
• 29:46
  It's a really intimate story between people and it's very
• 29:49
  internal. And I think without them
• 29:51
  intimate films, he wouldn't be able to have this grandeur.
• 29:53
  But even he's framing feels intimate.
• 29:55
  Every small detail has a real place.
• 29:58
  Yeah, it's his camera. Movements on this, any scale,
• 30:01
  that camera doesn't move. I've said recently that we
• 30:04
  should just bring back tripods. And if you need to move the
• 30:06
  camera, you need to pay more money in which to move it
• 30:09
  because it needs to be motivated by the story.
• 30:11
  And watch this film because that is exactly what he does.
• 30:14
  If he pans that camera, there's a reason he's revealing
• 30:16
  something. If it tilts down, there's a
• 30:17
  reason he's revealing something. Everything else is just like
• 30:20
  watching a photograph with movement in it.
• 30:22
  And that's what Lean learned, I think on the on the smaller
• 30:24
  films and how to frame. And then all of a sudden you
• 30:27
  give someone like that cinema scope and he still frames it in
• 30:29
  a really intimate way. And that's where he gets the
• 30:31
  depth in the distance. And using two lenses basically
• 30:35
  uses a wide prime to establish the scene.
• 30:38
  And then he just says, who's important, this guy.
• 30:40
  So he uses then a long lens to punch in on that guy, blur the
• 30:44
  background out and really single that character.
• 30:46
  You can see it in the opening speech.
• 30:47
  You can see where they all walk in.
• 30:49
  And then it's on nickels. It's on site.
• 30:51
  Or, you know, we're talking about that machine gun at the
• 30:52
  start. When that reverses into the
• 30:54
  frame, he knows exactly where that's stopping because that's
• 30:57
  perfectly done. Oh yeah, yeah.
• 30:59
  Like you said it. Is it's meticulous but doesn't
• 31:01
  feel overworked. It doesn't feel like Kubrick
• 31:04
  overworked. No, it doesn't.
• 31:06
  There's. Improvisation.
• 31:07
  Here, there's room for that improvisation, there's room for
• 31:10
  the camera to go another two inches to the right if it needs
• 31:12
  to. But he needs a good fucking
• 31:15
  reason to do it. And that's why I love David Lean
• 31:17
  as a filmmaker, because he needs a reason.
• 31:19
  You'll listen to anybody I think, but he needs a really
• 31:21
  good reason to move away from his blueprint of what he wants
• 31:23
  to do and what he wants to make. And the scale that he makes this
• 31:26
  film on is absolutely ludicrous. He shot a lot of stuff himself
• 31:30
  on 16 mil. I think a lot of the externals.
• 31:32
  You see bats fly in trays, all these kind of cutaways.
• 31:36
  He just went off and did them and it was just you took a crew
• 31:39
  with them and it was come hella high water.
• 31:40
  We're getting to the top of that waterfall and we're shooting
• 31:42
  this with that one person behind.
• 31:44
  It's not like the African Queen where they went out and shot a
• 31:46
  lot of the stuff. Well, nowadays you do I.
• 31:48
  Digitally, probably, wouldn't you?
• 31:49
  Well, you did on the. African, we're going to just
• 31:51
  shoot these Rapids and we're just going to put some special
• 31:53
  effects in there. Every single thing is in camera
• 31:55
  and I think that's why a lot of people twisted rhythm on the
• 31:57
  film that didn't see that level of integrity.
• 32:00
  He's Nicholson. He's just got that level of
• 32:01
  integrity towards film maker. This is the chord here.
• 32:05
  This is my short list. It is my short.
• 32:07
  List right but should be pan to the right.
• 32:08
  Is it in the chord? And I love that confidence in a
• 32:11
  film maker. And I don't really think there's
• 32:14
  been anyone like him. And there's so many things in
• 32:16
  this film. He's practicing for Lawrence of
• 32:18
  Arabia, where he's just got the confidence again to go higher.
• 32:21
  The scale in River Kwai is absolutely unprecedented.
• 32:25
  And from a photographic point of view, just a photographic point
• 32:28
  of view, just from a composition point of view, it's a
• 32:31
  masterpiece. Well, we.
• 32:33
  Said earlier that we'd be talking more about the producer
• 32:35
  of the film as well, Sam Spiegel.
• 32:36
  Yeah, and that's because he played a major role in getting
• 32:39
  the film made. It's a fairly outrageous story.
• 32:42
  So we have a fairly outrageous guy to tell it.
• 32:44
  Could that be Matt? Oh, it's me, Yeah.
• 32:47
  Did you turn at the Sam? Gollum by the end of it.
• 32:51
  That's Sam Smeagle. Sorry.
• 32:53
  No one was getting that if you hadn't explained there.
• 32:57
  Wow. Well.
• 33:00
  Yeah, Bouwel's novel The Bridge on the River Quite that was
• 33:03
  published in 1952 and the rights were snapped up by British
• 33:06
  Hungarian producer Alexander Corder, who said he saw just
• 33:09
  having huge cinematic potential. Yeah, he produced Lord Steph
• 33:13
  Alexander Corder, his biggest, probably the third man with
• 33:16
  Carol Reed. Oh yeah, lovely.
• 33:17
  Yeah, another classic. A lot of.
• 33:18
  Yeah, but Corder? Passed away in 1956.
• 33:21
  Saw Spiegel, who warned Horizon Pictures stepped in.
• 33:24
  He bought the rights to Kwai from Corder's estate for
• 33:27
  $200,000 and struck a deal with Colombia to distribute and they
• 33:31
  put up a budget of $2.8 million, right.
• 33:34
  Yeah, a big. Budget.
• 33:35
  Then and Horizon, they had produced the African Queen a few
• 33:38
  years earlier, right? Obviously a huge hit with an
• 33:40
  exotic setting. So Spiegel must have thought,
• 33:42
  hang on this bridge in the jungle story looks right on my
• 33:45
  street. Yeah, we can do that.
• 33:46
  Yeah. And then after he.
• 33:48
  Had the right Spiegel hired Cole Foreman, then Michael Wilson to
• 33:51
  write the screenplay before he started approaching directors.
• 33:55
  Yeah. Well, the writing's a story all
• 33:56
  of its own as well. We'll get into that more when we
• 33:58
  discuss the crew. It's probably bigger than the.
• 34:00
  Film itself absolutely crazy. Yeah, the production of the
• 34:04
  film. Was mad madness?
• 34:05
  Obviously. Madness, yeah.
• 34:07
  So Spiegel first asked Carol Reed to direct, but he said no.
• 34:11
  He asked Howard Hawks, but he said no.
• 34:13
  He asked Fred Cinnamon, who said he didn't understand the book,
• 34:16
  so he said no John Ford said he didn't like Colonel Nicholson,
• 34:19
  so he said no. And apparently Siegel approached
• 34:22
  Orson Welles to direct and star in the film, but he just didn't
• 34:25
  like the script. Oh really?
• 34:27
  Star as who? Though Seidel.
• 34:32
  Imagine. Massive on the bridge, you could
• 34:35
  have done that. Back then would have been
• 34:37
  outraged. A John Wayne is genghis God
• 34:41
  exactly the. Same as that.
• 34:43
  Wells screaming that. He hates the British.
• 34:48
  So Spiegel was. Running out of options.
• 34:50
  And that's when David Lean came in.
• 34:51
  Katherine Hepburn, who starred in The African Queen, like we
• 34:54
  just mentioned, had just worked with Lean on a romantic comedy
• 34:56
  called Summertime, and she recommended him to Spiegel.
• 34:59
  Lean said he'd do it, and Spiegel said he'd hired him in
• 35:01
  absence of anybody else. That's flattering.
• 35:06
  Yeah, not even that you're the director.
• 35:08
  Just anybody else. Yeah.
• 35:10
  You'll. Do exactly.
• 35:14
  Dean wasn't keen on. Making the film either, but at
• 35:16
  the time he was getting divorced from his third wife, Anne Todd.
• 35:19
  As soon as he signed, he asked Columbia for an advance on his
• 35:22
  salary. They weren't happy when he was
• 35:23
  used to fix his teeth. Going through a divorce?
• 35:28
  Back on the market, better get the Nasher throwing it out,
• 35:31
  smiling himself up. Couple of fillings.
• 35:34
  And Spiegel. Sent a scouting team out to the
• 35:37
  Real River Kwai in Berman to check it out before filming and
• 35:40
  they said the river was now nothing more than a trickling
• 35:42
  stream. They then came across a village
• 35:44
  called Kittlegula in Ceylon, now Sri Lanka, and production began
• 35:47
  there in 1956. Right.
• 35:49
  Well, yeah, trickling stream would have been a bit
• 35:51
  unimpressive. Yeah.
• 35:52
  What if I don't? I've built a massive bridge.
• 35:54
  You can just walk through it. Yeah, there were some.
• 35:59
  Issues. Though the Suez Canal crisis of
• 36:00
  1956 meant that equipment had to be flown out to Ceylon rather
• 36:04
  than shipped, and there was an incident where the finished film
• 36:07
  foot it didn't turn up in London for post production.
• 36:09
  After a week long search it was found sitting on a boiling hot
• 36:12
  runway in the Cairo airport. Well, somehow it was undamaged.
• 36:16
  Amazingly. Imagine it was all.
• 36:18
  Ruined. Devastating.
• 36:19
  Yeah, just in a hot box. With some corned beef.
• 36:24
  You'd a key to. Open it.
• 36:28
  I mean flying stuff about. With a massively increased
• 36:29
  production cost, Spiegel would have been having kittens about
• 36:32
  it. Yeah, absolutely.
• 36:34
  But. Filming in such a remote
• 36:35
  location brought some dangers as well.
• 36:37
  One of the second assistant directors, John Carrison, he was
• 36:40
  killed in a car crash on the way to 1 of the locations.
• 36:43
  And when filming the shootout on the bridge in the climax, a
• 36:46
  stuntman called Frank Howard was swept away.
• 36:48
  He was rescued, but he had to be thrown to the hospital for
• 36:51
  Tropical Diseases in London, but he sadly died.
• 36:54
  No way. Yeah, ridiculous.
• 36:55
  I read that David Lane was swept away by the river at one point
• 36:58
  as well. He had to be rescued.
• 36:59
  Wow, dangerous. Not by Spiegel, I bet.
• 37:02
  Well, no, he wasn't. Bothered.
• 37:03
  Tell me, run in the other direction, I think.
• 37:06
  All the problems let the friction between Lean and
• 37:08
  Spiegel during filming. In terms of the story, Lean was
• 37:11
  interested in the rivalry between Nicholson and Seidel,
• 37:13
  while Spiegel one of the adventure elements to have more
• 37:16
  focus and he's asked the writers to add in more action scenes.
• 37:19
  They were all vetoed by Lean though.
• 37:20
  He was just absolutely insistent on his vision.
• 37:24
  Apparently Spiegel had the right.
• 37:25
  I was put in action scenes that were an elephant Stampede, a
• 37:28
  submarine battle and an army of ants attacking the commandos
• 37:32
  like Kingdom. Of the Crystal Skull, Kingdom of
• 37:34
  the Crystal. Skull Lean also said that.
• 37:41
  Spiegel cheated him out of credit and compensation for the
• 37:43
  film, he said. They agreed to share credit
• 37:46
  equally, but Spiegel promoted the movie as the Sam Spiegel
• 37:49
  production rather than giving Lean equal billing.
• 37:52
  Well, the very first thing we'll say on the screen is the huge
• 37:54
  title as Sam Spiegel production. Yeah, it's massive.
• 37:57
  Yellow SD. For you.
• 37:58
  Yeah. Thank you.
• 37:58
  Yeah. But yeah, there was some
• 38:00
  friction. And that isn't the end of the
• 38:02
  Spiegel Lean shenanigans either. Not by a long way.
• 38:05
  No, No. Well, before we finish on David
• 38:07
  Lean, we have our first Patreon question.
• 38:09
  OK. So as well as all those many
• 38:11
  benefits we mentioned at the start, if you sign up to become
• 38:13
  an ATRM patron, we'll answer your questions on the show.
• 38:17
  We have the first of those now. It's on Classic Films and it
• 38:19
  comes from Andrew. Hello Andrew.
• 38:22
  Hello, Andrew. So, Andrew?
• 38:23
  Says I've seen a lot of films. Self praise.
• 38:26
  No praise for Andrew. Fair enough.
• 38:28
  But I'm always. Embarrassed when classes come
• 38:30
  up. I've not seen AG, the Bridge and
• 38:32
  the River Kwai. The podcast is getting me to
• 38:34
  watch movies I've never seen. But what classic movies have you
• 38:37
  not got around to watching yourselves?
• 38:39
  Right? Thanks for that Andrew.
• 38:41
  We all have our blind spots I think.
• 38:43
  Yep. Well, maybe not you, Matt.
• 38:44
  No, I've seen everything. See, it all just fell off.
• 38:49
  I've seen everything. I've seen everything.
• 38:51
  Are there any for you, Matt? Genuinely.
• 38:53
  A couple, yeah. We covered maybe poppets not too
• 38:55
  long ago, but the other 60s musical with Julie Andrews?
• 38:59
  I've never seen The Sound of Music.
• 39:01
  Wow. I've seen bits and pieces of it,
• 39:03
  but I've never felt compelled to sit through the whole thing.
• 39:06
  Why you love it? Well, I love musicals.
• 39:07
  I love Julie Andrews. I love Christopher Plummer, so I
• 39:09
  probably should take that one off, but yeah, I've not seen
• 39:11
  that. And then the other one,
• 39:12
  Breakfast at Tiffany's again, because I think, yeah, I know
• 39:15
  it's Audrey Hepburn. I know it's just looking for a
• 39:16
  cat in the rear end at the end. I know Moon River.
• 39:19
  I know outrageously racist Mickey Rooney is a Japanese man
• 39:23
  in that. Yeah, Yeah.
• 39:24
  And I'm just saying I don't feel I need to see that.
• 39:26
  I just know all the bits already, you just prefer.
• 39:29
  Pepper than the A-Team. Exactly.
• 39:31
  A. Team and nothing else.
• 39:33
  I want to. See him smoking.
• 39:34
  A cigar, not women. Audrey Headphone.
• 39:37
  Yeah, well, I was feeling to think of any of the top of my
• 39:39
  head. So what?
• 39:40
  I showed up man. You.
• 39:41
  Sure. No, no, that's what.
• 39:43
  I was feeling to think that was all.
• 39:45
  Yeah. So what I did was I went through
• 39:46
  the IMDb top 250 and I've got the first three films that
• 39:49
  appear on that list that I've not seen.
• 39:50
  OK. OK.
• 39:51
  So first. 20. 5th in the IMDb top 250 right?
• 39:55
  I've not seen City of God. Wow.
• 39:57
  Oh really? Really.
• 39:58
  OK. Brazilian classic, I'm sure.
• 40:00
  You guys have seen it? Oh yeah, it's great for him.
• 40:02
  This is the most John. Answer to a question I've ever
• 40:04
  fucking heard of Me like #28. I've seen the. 1st 27, so in
• 40:09
  your face, really backhanded. It's amazing.
• 40:13
  Well, I'm not seen #32 either. Which is the pianist?
• 40:15
  Oh, really? Wow.
• 40:18
  Yeah, brilliant. A Shiri number from.
• 40:19
  What I hear. Yeah, lovely.
• 40:21
  And #4 the. Japanese classic Hara Kiwi I've
• 40:24
  not seen. I'd imagine most people haven't
• 40:25
  seen that to be honest. I've seen that of.
• 40:27
  Course you have, yeah. But in terms of a massive title
• 40:30
  like Andrews will be looking for, I went back until I reached
• 40:32
  a huge one, which was 79, and that is Das Boot.
• 40:36
  I've not seen that right. Wow.
• 40:38
  Yeah. It's on for about 5 days, isn't
• 40:40
  it? I mean, it is.
• 40:41
  Yeah, to be. Some good five days I don't.
• 40:44
  Know. If you'll feel great at the end
• 40:45
  of it. But it's worth taking that or
• 40:46
  might you watch Sound of? Music and I'll watch Das Boot.
• 40:48
  You've got the best part of. That deal, but OK.
• 40:53
  And Rusty Classic. Films you've not seen?
• 40:55
  There's a few, obviously. But there's some that Sunset
• 40:58
  Blvd. I've still not seen.
• 41:00
  And I've mentioned that because I've had this question before.
• 41:02
  Yeah, I've mentioned earlier on in the podcast, I've not seen
• 41:04
  Doctor Zhivago, David Lean Classic, but I'd love to get
• 41:07
  into that. But again, I've just, I don't
• 41:08
  know. Cleopatra, right?
• 41:11
  Right. Yeah, another one I'd like to.
• 41:12
  Check out but I just keep thinking, have I seen that
• 41:15
  Burning and Taylor isn't? It always a treat.
• 41:17
  It is, yeah. So.
• 41:18
  It'd be great, but I mean I'd rather see Burning and Taylor in
• 41:21
  different films if I'm on. Fair enough.
• 41:22
  It happened one night. I've never seen.
• 41:24
  Oh yeah, I've not seen that. Actually, and the last one is.
• 41:27
  The 400 blows, which I've heard a lot about now, Yeah, yeah,
• 41:30
  yeah. I've not seen that either. 3434
• 41:32
  Yeah, It happened One night, the first film to win the Big 5 of
• 41:35
  the Oscars was it I think yeah, it was yeah, one of the.
• 41:37
  Only three why that popped up and said.
• 41:39
  Well, I really should be checking out, but I mean you
• 41:41
  know, Robocops on gonna do. I watch out.
• 41:44
  For a 15th time. What's that again, RoboCop?
• 41:47
  Then predator, then time cop, then a kebab, then bed, then the
• 41:50
  crow, then I cry myself to sleep.
• 41:51
  Fuck, it happened 1. Night.
• 41:52
  That happens every Saturday night for Wesley.
• 41:56
  Well, back to David Lean. And Division of the River Choir
• 41:58
  was rewarded for all the hardware that went into it.
• 42:00
  Yeah, David Lean won the Oscar for best director and the film
• 42:03
  won best picture, beating out some of that classics in Peyton
• 42:06
  Place, Witness for the Prosecution and 12 Angry Men.
• 42:10
  Yeah. Oh, really?
• 42:11
  Yeah. Wow.
• 42:12
  So a major award for leading the film and for us, the work of a
• 42:15
  huge director finding his epic voice.
• 42:18
  Yeah, very much. Definitely.
• 42:23
  The Fugitive Two huge. Performances in The Fugitive,
• 42:28
  which doesn't leave too much room for the actual bad guy.
• 42:32
  We'll be talking about him. Too.
• 42:33
  But firstly, it's over to Westie to talk about movie star
• 42:36
  extraordinaire Harrison Ford. Indeed.
• 42:39
  Mike at the Fishes, yes. You don't see it.
• 42:43
  Obviously huge fan of Ford always have been, but watching
• 42:46
  this back and like I said, we did this four years ago and I
• 42:49
  was just just shoot guns in the air.
• 42:51
  You somebody salmon it Harrison Ford, just incredible.
• 42:53
  Boom, boom, boom, boom, no problem.
• 42:55
  But you know, there's a real fragility of this character and
• 42:58
  it was the first time I'd seen it and then going back and doing
• 43:01
  some proper research on it, looking at it like this is the
• 43:03
  role that I think he's played more than anything else.
• 43:06
  They think of what predated this witness.
• 43:08
  There's a lot of that in there. Yes, there's a lot of.
• 43:11
  Frantic. In there, yeah, a lot of
• 43:13
  regarding Henry, a lot of presumed innocent various games
• 43:16
  was before this, which went on to clear and present Danger and
• 43:19
  that kind of watch Air Force One.
• 43:21
  It's got that kind of vibe to it.
• 43:22
  So he's always played this kind of really fragile character and
• 43:25
  a lot of these films that I think people forget about.
• 43:28
  And I think this was kind of the gateway drug to that.
• 43:30
  It was that moment where he plays somebody who doesn't have
• 43:33
  to really live in the world of action.
• 43:36
  But I think this film is where he kind of nails it and he hits
• 43:39
  that middle ground. It's not too far down and it's
• 43:41
  not too far up. I think the action sequences,
• 43:43
  you really believe that he hasn't hit anybody before.
• 43:45
  But this guy's Indiana Jones, you know, you've that fight at
• 43:49
  the end, which I get into, it's just he has this real belief and
• 43:51
  morality and grounded and you do want to kind of like be friends
• 43:55
  with him. You're on his side immediately
• 43:57
  and he's got that real presence and that real electricity on the
• 44:01
  screen where when he's there, you just want to help him.
• 44:04
  You want to figure out what's going on.
• 44:05
  But he has this real fragile nature.
• 44:07
  Like, is he actually going to get out with this?
• 44:09
  Is this going to work? Like that damn jump should just
• 44:13
  have no attention whatsoever. You should be thinking, well, of
• 44:16
  course it's Harrison Ford. But when it turns around, you
• 44:19
  just think, is something going to happen?
• 44:20
  Like, is he going to be paralyzed from this?
• 44:22
  Is something like it's something really detrimental going to
• 44:25
  happen to the character because he looks so fragile?
• 44:27
  And I think his performance in this really does highlight that.
• 44:30
  There was a few other people in the running.
• 44:32
  I like Bolden, which I think there was something about
• 44:34
  Patriot Games and that whole thing.
• 44:36
  Bolden was well in the running for all that stuff.
• 44:38
  I think it was October time, wasn't it?
• 44:40
  So yeah, it was. Yeah, he lost out to Ford again,
• 44:44
  because Ford came on for Patriot Games.
• 44:46
  Yeah, he did know that was. Meant to kind of carry on.
• 44:48
  And it's just the same with this.
• 44:50
  I think there was that real battle between them.
• 44:52
  Michael Douglas obviously at the time was massive.
• 44:54
  Kevin Costner was considered. Nick Nolte was considered, but
• 44:57
  Nick Nolte thought he was too old, even though he's like only
• 45:00
  a year older than Ford. But nobody said.
• 45:02
  I'm not saying I think Naughty would have been good in the
• 45:04
  Gerard role or as yeah, it's Cosmore like just like the older
• 45:08
  one where Gerard's slightly younger.
• 45:10
  Definitely the Gerard. Role, yeah, but Ford's.
• 45:12
  Performance, it's just so genuine, like he means every
• 45:15
  line. He really wants it to work.
• 45:17
  Really great performance from Ford, I think.
• 45:19
  Yeah, what really gets? Me is that moment that he cows
• 45:21
  away when the photograph flash goes off in his face in the
• 45:24
  opening scenes. You can really feel and see his
• 45:27
  vulnerability and pain and all the way through.
• 45:30
  I think the only time he smiles is when he's getting that ID
• 45:33
  photo taken and he struggles because he's balled it up.
• 45:36
  Yeah, yeah, but there's. This real worry with the
• 45:38
  character all the way through. He's dragging this weight.
• 45:40
  It's it's really dragging this weight, yeah.
• 45:42
  You can feel it. You can feel it, yeah.
• 45:43
  And he came on board. Because he liked the idea of
• 45:45
  playing an ordinary character thrust into extraordinary
• 45:48
  circumstances. He liked the grounded nature of
• 45:51
  Kimball, which was a contrast to his usual indie Han Solo action
• 45:54
  persona. Yeah, yeah.
• 45:56
  Well that. And he also wanted to grow a
• 45:58
  beard. And so this film is the perfect
• 46:00
  opportunity. And then straight.
• 46:02
  Off, yeah. And then?
• 46:03
  Straight off, because Warners were furious.
• 46:05
  In their words, they said they'd paid to see Ford's face.
• 46:10
  Which is fair. Enough, like you were saying,
• 46:11
  West. Yeah, Well, absolutely.
• 46:13
  I mean. That's the face, isn't it?
• 46:14
  That's Yeah, that's your. Movie that's going to sell
• 46:17
  pictures but. Compromise.
• 46:19
  Was reached the other way where Richard starts off with AB and
• 46:21
  then whips it off Producer Keith.
• 46:23
  Barish said that an action star like Tom Cruise or Mel Gibson
• 46:26
  would be wrong for the tone of the film.
• 46:28
  He said that he wanted to make it a serious action movie with a
• 46:31
  serious foundation. Ford just always felt right for
• 46:35
  the film. Yeah, well.
• 46:36
  Winters Ford never feel right. Well, regarding Henry, probably
• 46:41
  anger, man two. Yeah, really.
• 46:44
  Yeah. And in keeping.
• 46:46
  With the script issues we've talked about, Jane Lynch said
• 46:49
  that Ford was unhappy with the dialogue and their scenes, and
• 46:51
  they ended up rewriting their lines.
• 46:53
  Lynch said that Ford gave us some key advice, though.
• 46:55
  It doesn't matter how smart you are, you look stupid if your
• 46:58
  mouth is a gap Key piece of information when shooting the
• 47:02
  moments. Of Kimball running through the
• 47:04
  woods, Ford tore ligaments in his leg.
• 47:06
  The limp that Kimball has in the film was real.
• 47:08
  Ford held of getting surgery until film and rap because he
• 47:11
  felt that it added to the character.
• 47:12
  It certainly does. That surely did a similar thing
• 47:15
  on readers when the shot in Tunisia as well.
• 47:17
  Yeah, he did, yeah. So a real movie?
• 47:19
  Star performance from Harrison Ford, carrying the weight of the
• 47:21
  film on his shoulders indeed. Next up if Ford.
• 47:27
  Is carrying all the weight TLJ is certainly his spotter.
• 47:30
  Over to you, Matt. Yeah, I mean if you're.
• 47:32
  Going to call yourself a big dog in the film, you need to put in
• 47:35
  a performance that just absolutely a. 100% a. 100% this
• 47:39
  is. A big dog performance.
• 47:41
  I mean, you're sharing film a house and Ford in this absolute
• 47:44
  A list of pomp here and you've just got to bring you a game.
• 47:47
  And Tommy Lee Jones does that and then some.
• 47:50
  Every scene he's in, he steals. He's in complete control and you
• 47:54
  can see why he's got such a dedicated team following his
• 47:58
  every command of that question because this guy, you just know
• 48:00
  he gets the job done. That's really interesting and
• 48:02
  pivotal because in so many of these types of films of the law
• 48:05
  enforcement, the guy in charge, he's inept, always nowhere near
• 48:08
  as clever as the guy they're trying to get like in Die Hard.
• 48:12
  Imagine if this was Dwayne T Robinson in charge that get
• 48:15
  nowhere. NIA Kimball.
• 48:17
  Kimball would be aware and never found.
• 48:19
  But you don't get out with Gerard because he's so smart.
• 48:22
  His team is so capable. Their doggedness and hunting
• 48:25
  down Kimball and working out where he is, what he's doing.
• 48:28
  Oh, he's making IDs, whereas he make an ID vice man for the
• 48:31
  hospital. That's our next clue.
• 48:32
  There's a genuine intention in that.
• 48:34
  Gerard, you really feel he's capable of getting them, which
• 48:37
  is such a tricky thing to do because that should be the most
• 48:39
  predictable part of the film. Oh, of course he's going to get
• 48:41
  away. Tommy Lee Jones makes you doubt
• 48:43
  it. He makes, you know, this kind of
• 48:45
  easy. Get him.
• 48:46
  The other interesting thing is Gerard, technically, for a large
• 48:49
  part of this film, he's the antagonist, but you also don't
• 48:52
  want him to fail. And again, it's like Diet.
• 48:54
  When I watch Die Hard, there's a little bit of me would always
• 48:57
  like to see Hands get away with it because he's so charming and
• 49:00
  he's funny and he's smart and he's clever and it's a tricky
• 49:03
  balance act. But as much as you want Kimball
• 49:05
  to get away, you don't want him to do that at the expense of
• 49:08
  Gerard looking foolish or looking like they both have.
• 49:12
  To win, don't they? They both have to win.
• 49:13
  Both have. To win such a difficult thing to
• 49:15
  pull off. And I think a large part of that
• 49:17
  is down to how good Tommy Lee Jones is in this because
• 49:20
  obviously he's got the dramatic chops, but it's the little bit
• 49:22
  yummy he brings as well. The line in Yemen about when
• 49:25
  he's sitting behind him thinking of a cup of coffee and a
• 49:27
  chocolate doughnut. Really funny, really dramatic,
• 49:30
  just a wonderful performance. Yeah, tough as old boots, but
• 49:34
  he's got Lords of. I think he's pretty much Comic
• 49:36
  Relief in the film. He is.
• 49:38
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Never far away from a witty quip
• 49:40
  or rhythm and put down. I love it when he says don't
• 49:43
  live and give the any shit about the ponytail.
• 49:45
  That's just brilliant. Really good.
• 49:47
  That's brilliant, happy and handsome.
• 49:49
  Yeah, happy and. Handsome, brilliant on the.
• 49:53
  Back of what you were saying. Man, I think it's all the more
• 49:56
  remarkable that we are rooting for Gerard and Tommy Lee Jones
• 49:59
  because this is Harrison Ford, who's been completely done wrong
• 50:03
  by. Yeah, so we're absolutely on his
• 50:06
  side. But then we still have feelings
• 50:08
  for Gerard as well. Yeah.
• 50:09
  That's all down to TLG. Yeah.
• 50:11
  Yeah, I think because Gerard. A man of the fact, and once he
• 50:14
  realizes what the facts are, you just turn them towards it.
• 50:17
  Just point the light. He really?
• 50:19
  Will go that's. Fact.
• 50:20
  That's fine then, because he's got zero emotion whatsoever, so
• 50:24
  all people's got to do is find enough fact to change his mind,
• 50:26
  which is exactly what happens. I do like the right in.
• 50:29
  There. Yeah, Yeah, it's true.
• 50:30
  Yeah, so. It's not all terrible.
• 50:32
  No, definitely no. They didn't use TX on
• 50:34
  everything. Yeah.
• 50:36
  But this is Tommy Lee Jones. Writing his character that way,
• 50:38
  Yeah. Yeah, probably.
• 50:40
  Yeah, we don't. I mean, it's so convoluted and
• 50:42
  confused. Who knows?
• 50:43
  It's all over the place, but I mean.
• 50:44
  Ultimately, it works, Yeah. Oh, it does.
• 50:46
  That's a good thing, yeah. Gene Hackman and.
• 50:48
  Jon Voight were considered for the role of Gerard, but Davis
• 50:51
  had just worked with TLG on Under Siege and he thought he
• 50:54
  was perfect for the part. He said Tommy Lee Jones was in
• 50:56
  Under Siege more than Steven Seagal, which can only be a good
• 50:59
  thing. That's my quote.
• 51:00
  That's not Davis's quote, right? Thanks for clarifying.
• 51:04
  That, Yeah. And Lee Jones was drawn to the
• 51:06
  moral complexities of the character, saying it was about a
• 51:09
  decent, innocent man ostracized by society being chased by
• 51:12
  someone that was right but also wrong.
• 51:15
  Which is perfect, really. Yeah, It is.
• 51:17
  Yeah. Perfect.
• 51:17
  And he plays it perfectly. Yeah.
• 51:19
  And as we're talking about the big dog, it's time that we take
• 51:21
  a little detour and bring an ATR and Patron into the fold as.
• 51:26
  Mentioned at the. Top If you sign up on Patreon,
• 51:28
  you can ask us a question for the film that we're talking
• 51:30
  about. Our first of the show comes from
• 51:32
  a long time patron of all the right movies.
• 51:34
  Matt Long How you doing? Matt Matt Matt says hi guys,
• 51:37
  long time no question. That's true.
• 51:40
  He says the. Fugitive is one of the most
• 51:42
  rewatchable films in the 90s in my opinion, and I can't wait to
• 51:44
  hear you break it down. Well, I hope we're doing a bang
• 51:46
  up job so far. Yeah, definitely.
• 51:48
  He says 19. 93 alone was a stellar year for movies.
• 51:51
  My question is, can you name a better example of a supporting
• 51:54
  actor completely stealing the show from the lead actor?
• 51:57
  Especially given how ear list Ford was at the time?
• 52:00
  Yeah, that's. A big one.
• 52:01
  That's a good question. A tough one.
• 52:03
  Yeah. Matt, why didn't you go first?
• 52:05
  I'm just going to go 1. Because this was the first one
• 52:07
  keeping to mind, I thought, I want to stick this one.
• 52:09
  Because if you think back to when this film came out, Marlon
• 52:11
  Brando was such a star. But I think you come away from
• 52:14
  The Godfather, Pacino and Jimmy Khan in mind.
• 52:17
  And I think that to me is to consider there were pretty much
• 52:21
  nobodies at the time and the steal the film from Marlon
• 52:24
  Brando of all people. So that want to be.
• 52:27
  That's just such a good example because everyone steals it from
• 52:29
  each. Other because Bobby Duval shines
• 52:31
  and that as well. He does.
• 52:32
  And then you get a Part 2 and it's John Gazali.
• 52:35
  Steals it from. Pacino yeah, it depends who
• 52:38
  you're watching. Yeah, but I'll go Pacino and.
• 52:39
  Conan the Godfather. Fantastic.
• 52:42
  Yeah, I think you can't. Look too far from Rickman and
• 52:45
  Die Hard. We've mentioned him.
• 52:47
  Yeah. I mean, you talked about one of
• 52:48
  the greatest baddies ever, but Willis was nowhere near the star
• 52:51
  that Ford was at the time. Fair enough.
• 52:52
  Yeah, I'd say that it was a. Role reversal for.
• 52:56
  TLJ in no country where Javier Bardem put in an all timer is
• 52:59
  and on sugar. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 53:01
  Brilliant stream, the one that I kept on.
• 53:03
  Coming back to was Kilmer. As Doc Holiday, Yeah, I've got
• 53:06
  that, Yeah, I mean. Not saying that Kurt Russell is
• 53:09
  bad or any of. The other cast, Kurt Russell's
• 53:11
  amazing, yeah, but Kilmer puts in the best performance.
• 53:15
  Yes, he does. Undoubtedly he isn't.
• 53:17
  And Westie, what about? You.
• 53:18
  I've got Alan Rickman as well. But Prince of Thieves?
• 53:22
  Brilliant because he just absolutely wipes the floor.
• 53:24
  With Costner. And Costner was probably one of
• 53:26
  the biggest stars on the planet at that point.
• 53:28
  Ridiculous. But I cannot look much further
• 53:30
  than Heath Ledger in The Dark Knight.
• 53:32
  Yeah. Because like every scene he's
• 53:34
  in, he steals the film. Not just, you know, the
• 53:36
  performance. John Goodman in The Big
• 53:39
  Lebowski. Yeah.
• 53:40
  Yeah. Because.
• 53:42
  Every time he's on. Absolutely nails it.
• 53:45
  It's more of a marriage between the two of them, but he does
• 53:47
  slightly pivot for me in some seasons and the last one.
• 53:51
  The most important? One for you, Luke.
• 53:53
  Not one. For you, Matt, but Clancy Brown
• 53:56
  in Highlander absolutely nails it and the story that's that
• 54:02
  don't put the bed, but it's Christophe Lambert, so he's not
• 54:06
  really got much competition. That was literally what I was
• 54:08
  about to say. It's.
• 54:10
  Not a high bar, I got there first.
• 54:12
  Yeah, but he's still. Fantastic.
• 54:13
  In that film, Neil Santi Brown's Upstate.
• 54:16
  She's Christoph. Lambert.
• 54:17
  I'm sorry, who? Who said what?
• 54:19
  And as soon as that Clancy Brown you.
• 54:21
  Both went What's he going to talk about?
• 54:22
  Shawshank Redemption Flubber. No Highlander Flubber.
• 54:29
  And thank you. For your question, Matt.
• 54:31
  Yeah, great question. Thanks mate, a fitting way to
• 54:33
  wrap. Up on TLG who put.
• 54:35
  In one of the most memorable supporting performances of the
• 54:37
  decade. Yep.
• 54:41
  Finally, we're talking about a man who was probably best known
• 54:43
  at this. Point as General Koskov in The
• 54:46
  Living Daylights, but he had started a number of productions
• 54:49
  by Paul Verhoeven as well. It is a your own Crabbe, no
• 54:53
  other playing Charles Nichols, Chuck.
• 54:58
  Now it's said that. He is.
• 55:00
  Quite forgettable. In the role, to be honest,
• 55:01
  absolutely, 100% well nailed. I was going to say that, but.
• 55:04
  Thanks man, Done. Right, that's lunch.
• 55:08
  Yeah, Every time he rings up I'm like.
• 55:11
  Oh, this guy. I don't.
• 55:14
  Really think it's Crabbe's fault though.
• 55:16
  He has to contend with Tommy Lee Jones and Harrison Ford.
• 55:19
  The cast and he always come up short.
• 55:21
  Yeah, exactly. But I think the character is
• 55:23
  poorly written. There's no flesh on the bones,
• 55:25
  no real motivation other than generic corporate greed, and
• 55:30
  it's all an exposition dump right at the end.
• 55:33
  Yeah, there's too much, too much at once.
• 55:35
  He gets a few. Fleeting scenes, but not enough
• 55:37
  to show what he can. Do as an actor.
• 55:38
  The screenplay just doesn't allow it.
• 55:40
  There's no room for him, even though he is the main
• 55:43
  antagonist. But I'll repeat viewings knowing
• 55:48
  what you know by the end. He.
• 55:49
  Does bring a nice bit of European sleaze to the role, and
• 55:53
  I mean that with all due respect.
• 55:55
  Yeah, he's cocky and dismissive with Gerard and his team and it
• 55:58
  does feel like he's holding something from them.
• 56:00
  But as we find out, he's not protecting his friend, he's
• 56:04
  protecting himself. I think there's a nice bit of
• 56:06
  nuance there that can be easily overlooked.
• 56:08
  Yes. Yeah.
• 56:09
  Again, not his fault, but the scene.
• 56:10
  Where Richard catches up with. Charlie, or Chuck as he calls
• 56:14
  them in the car. How much money is he holding
• 56:17
  that Richard can now afford to rent that room at the Polish
• 56:19
  lady's house? Just a couple of books what he
• 56:21
  had on them by the sounds of it. Yeah, there's a down payment do.
• 56:28
  You need to go through a credit. Search to get this place.
• 56:31
  Because that's what you usually have to do.
• 56:32
  No, no cold hard cash, yeah. Richard Jordan was cast.
• 56:37
  As bad guy doctor. Charles Nichols and shot the
• 56:39
  majority of his scenes. Really only the final fight
• 56:42
  scenes were left, but he was sadly diagnosed with a brain
• 56:45
  tumor and had to be replaced. Unfortunately, he died three
• 56:49
  weeks after the movie was released.
• 56:50
  That's a heartbreaker. That is a heartbreaker.
• 56:53
  So that mean that won't have been.
• 56:55
  More than six months after he shot his scenes because of the
• 56:58
  the quick production. Yeah, exactly.
• 57:00
  Yeah. Horrible.
• 57:01
  So Jeron Crabbe. Literally came in.
• 57:03
  At the 11th. Hour.
• 57:04
  He lived in the Netherlands at the time and got a call at night
• 57:06
  from his age and telling him about the film the next day.
• 57:09
  Lately, next day he was on the plane to Chicago just knowing
• 57:12
  very little about the film. He said that he didn't even go
• 57:14
  through customs when he landed, he was just whisked off in a
• 57:16
  limo to the set. Didn't know a lot about the
• 57:18
  film, just like everyone else. He didn't.
• 57:23
  Go through customs. Julie's contravening various
• 57:26
  laws here straight. That wouldn't happen these days,
• 57:29
  no. You know who I would have loved?
• 57:32
  Is that character every time I watch it though?
• 57:33
  Charles Gordon. I would have loved Gordon in
• 57:36
  there. Why are you bubbly with?
• 57:38
  The Chicago Police Department. Exactly.
• 57:42
  You know, it's really weird in those scenes where the.
• 57:44
  Helicopters chasing the ambulance.
• 57:46
  My mind always goes to Midnight Run.
• 57:49
  Yeah, that's probably why I want him in there.
• 57:51
  I just. I didn't feel that sequence.
• 57:53
  Yeah. When he got on set, he met
• 57:55
  Andrew Davis, who thanked. Him for saving the film.
• 57:58
  Hold your judgement until the scenes are shot, Andrew.
• 58:00
  Yeah. Then he met Harrison Ford, and
• 58:02
  he was a little starstruck. He said to Ford, I was called by
• 58:05
  my agent last night and now I'm here, so I don't know what to
• 58:08
  do. And he put his arms around him
• 58:10
  and he said, I'm going to help you, buddy, don't worry.
• 58:12
  Can you imagine that arm around the shoulder from forward?
• 58:16
  Yeah. I'll do anything you want,
• 58:17
  Harrison. So.
• 58:18
  When he was there, all of. The character scenes had to be
• 58:20
  shot again. Ford even wore a fake beard,
• 58:22
  taking hours in makeup to get it right.
• 58:24
  Unbelievable continuity. Again, it doesn't stand out.
• 58:26
  At all. I can't tell that no and
• 58:28
  considering the change up in the.
• 58:29
  Cast. Here they were.
• 58:31
  Changing everything else in the script.
• 58:32
  They probably should have changed the character name
• 58:34
  because this Dutch man does not sound like a Chuck Nichols.
• 58:37
  All right, Chuck. So 2.
• 58:41
  Powerhouse performances in the main cast.
• 58:42
  With your own Crabby adding credibility to a very strong
• 58:46
  supporting cast as well, yes. Gross.
• 58:51
  Point blank, we're picking back up with Martin, who's having a
• 58:56
  little memory. Lane But it's all gone bad and
• 58:59
  now he needs his mum in that right Matt he does need his mum
• 59:02
  and it's just such a. Quietly tragic.
• 59:04
  Seen this because it sheds more light on Martin, you know,
• 59:08
  Marcellus said from earlier. I just find it amusing that you
• 59:11
  came from somewhere. So he's clearly tried to erase
• 59:14
  his identity to start again, leave everything behind.
• 59:16
  As we've said, the surname is being very deliberately chosen
• 59:19
  by the writers here, but he does come from somewhere and the
• 59:23
  fact. That all the time.
• 59:24
  We realise he's felt the guilt about abandoning his mother, so
• 59:27
  he's been sending her this money, but that's it.
• 59:30
  So he has no idea where the money's gone.
• 59:31
  He knew nothing about her losing the house.
• 59:33
  If you find out who was responsible for that.
• 59:36
  But I think Kiosk is particularly gritty because you
• 59:39
  can feel that overwhelming guilt had not been there for his
• 59:43
  mother, who clearly has. Does he has dementia?
• 59:45
  Maybe there's maybe something you know, Nothing badly wrong
• 59:48
  with that. And it's just all in.
• 59:50
  Like the mannerisms and, you know, when he's kind of like
• 59:53
  furrowing his brow with his thumbs and he's doing that, he's
• 59:55
  like trying to work out, oh God, what have I missed?
• 59:58
  What have I missed? Why wasn't he here?
• 1:00:00
  You know, Cusack has just got those really expressive eyes.
• 1:00:04
  And when she gets wheeled where by the nurse and she's often 1
• 1:00:07
  little kind of revelry, you can see just that haunted look in
• 1:00:09
  his eyes. Like, could have done more.
• 1:00:12
  You know the money wasn't enough.
• 1:00:14
  Yeah, but then you get the complete contrast with his
• 1:00:17
  attitude towards his father at the grave.
• 1:00:19
  Doesn't bring flowers, brings up booze, has nothing to say, no
• 1:00:23
  kind words, just pause it over the grave.
• 1:00:26
  And then what's key to me is he doesn't take the empty bottle
• 1:00:29
  with him, he just drops it there and walks off.
• 1:00:32
  Like you don't deserve to have a clean grave.
• 1:00:34
  You can have the bottle as well. No word of dialogue, just the
• 1:00:37
  expression on his face in a 22nd scene.
• 1:00:40
  Maybe you totally understand what his relationship.
• 1:00:43
  With his father was. Like, which explains a lot about
• 1:00:45
  him now. It's great because a lot of the
• 1:00:47
  things that you've said there, Matt.
• 1:00:49
  They're not written down nor in. We don't.
• 1:00:51
  We're not told those things all on Q sock.
• 1:00:53
  Sure don't tell. Exactly.
• 1:00:55
  Classic and how? Much room is that taken up on
• 1:00:57
  the screenplay, by the way, in the.
• 1:00:58
  Combat, 152 pages and it should just be stands over grave pours
• 1:01:02
  out booze, but it's like, you know, it's a really good kind of
• 1:01:05
  minute of this. It's really passionate and
• 1:01:07
  really powerful. The date on the grave as well
• 1:01:10
  puts his dad in his 50s, I think, and he left in the late
• 1:01:13
  80s, so obviously he wasn't sticking around for long.
• 1:01:15
  Maybe he left before his dad died or after.
• 1:01:17
  That's really. Yeah, so powerful that Yeah, it
• 1:01:20
  really is. Yeah, for a very, very short.
• 1:01:23
  Scene as well. So after that, he visits Debbie
• 1:01:26
  at the station. She's at work, she's having a
• 1:01:28
  great time, fucking loves the clash.
• 1:01:32
  That's fine, that's not a problem.
• 1:01:34
  And I think it's. Just a really great touch when
• 1:01:36
  they walk in and that chemistry we've been talking about that
• 1:01:38
  Matt touched on that's insanely obvious, incredibly quickly.
• 1:01:43
  The walkthrough just like shake my hand.
• 1:01:45
  And there's just real tension. And there's this energy in this,
• 1:01:48
  this kind of electricity, the sexual tension between them,
• 1:01:52
  which then just has to explode this case.
• 1:01:54
  And then they're like, right, OK, all right, but yeah.
• 1:01:56
  And then they start the conversation and just like,
• 1:01:58
  right, I've got you right where I want you.
• 1:02:00
  This is where I'm comfortable. You're now going to get put
• 1:02:03
  through the ringer because he sat here and you're just going
• 1:02:06
  to have to deal with it. Really love the touch of he not
• 1:02:09
  sitting with his back of the door because he has to check the
• 1:02:11
  blinds. That's really, really great
• 1:02:13
  because that's going to get taken out.
• 1:02:15
  Yeah, it's just the end of the. Theme that just runs all.
• 1:02:17
  The way through it, it's a really, really good setup.
• 1:02:20
  And this humiliation is public. She wants to punish him.
• 1:02:23
  She wants him to explain what he's done.
• 1:02:25
  She wants answers and then the feds are outside, they're
• 1:02:29
  ringing in. Well, you're doing a tough guy
• 1:02:31
  in the then they just need us go yellow ribbons.
• 1:02:35
  Absolutely brilliant. No, we like, we like tough guys,
• 1:02:38
  Marty. Yeah.
• 1:02:40
  Tough guys like you, yeah. Wonderful and.
• 1:02:42
  That gets cut. Off and never mentioned again
• 1:02:44
  normally you'd go that's a bit weird what's happening here and
• 1:02:46
  then the story would spin somewhere else but Debbie just
• 1:02:48
  dismisses it doesn't she and it's just dismissed it's.
• 1:02:50
  Just not interested in that. Tone whatsoever, it's just
• 1:02:53
  playful. You can see that she's almost
• 1:02:55
  too big for this job. She's too good at it.
• 1:02:58
  She is. It's just, you know, a big fish
• 1:03:00
  in a small town and she needs an opportunity to get somewhere
• 1:03:02
  else and do something bigger because she is genuinely
• 1:03:05
  lovable. She's genuinely likeable.
• 1:03:07
  She's got an incredible personality and that just comes
• 1:03:09
  across on the radio. Imagine putting her on
• 1:03:12
  television. Do you know what I mean?
• 1:03:13
  She's just got this presence and this whole scene sets that up.
• 1:03:16
  He's so uncomfortable. She is so comfortable.
• 1:03:19
  It's just, like I say, putting them through the ringer, and it
• 1:03:21
  is an absolute joy to watch Cusack squirm and watch Driver
• 1:03:25
  relish in that. It's a great, great sequence.
• 1:03:27
  It's been building for a while as well, and they've finally
• 1:03:30
  come. Together.
• 1:03:30
  Yeah. 10 years. Yeah, 10.
• 1:03:35
  We talked about the improvisation.
• 1:03:36
  Earlier and one of the most. Memorable moments came from that
• 1:03:39
  improvisation. When Martin walks in, you said
• 1:03:42
  it's this spontaneously kiss. Yeah.
• 1:03:45
  And that was done completely off the cuff.
• 1:03:47
  Really wasn't expected. You're massive.
• 1:03:49
  Yeah. Yeah, Ahmed had said it was.
• 1:03:51
  Just wonderful. Completely.
• 1:03:52
  Out of the blue. You should have seen the smile
• 1:03:55
  on Johnny's face afterwards, I bet.
• 1:03:58
  Yeah, I can. Imagine.
• 1:03:59
  Yeah, I think that would have been the third.
• 1:04:01
  Take the improvised 1. And then from here, Martin?
• 1:04:05
  Leads the radio. Station and all his paranoia is
• 1:04:08
  overflowing. He sees the ghoul, the two
• 1:04:10
  Spooks completely on the edge. But then he he is a familiar,
• 1:04:13
  friendly voice from the past. Paul, his old high school buddy.
• 1:04:17
  What a sight for sore eyes. And who doesn't love Jeremy
• 1:04:20
  Pivot? I mean nobody.
• 1:04:23
  And Paul's got the same. Reaction to Martin that
• 1:04:24
  everybody. In town has He can't believe his
• 1:04:26
  eyes. He's looking at a ghost.
• 1:04:28
  You can tell that the two actors know each other.
• 1:04:30
  They've got such a great chemistry.
• 1:04:32
  Yeah. And I think that Cusack
• 1:04:34
  naturally brings that out of people anyway.
• 1:04:36
  He's got a great knack for that throughout all of his films, but
• 1:04:38
  particularly in this. Then we see Paul at work.
• 1:04:41
  He's got a couple who have got a decision making disorder, he
• 1:04:44
  says. Martin's waiting outside the
• 1:04:46
  house while Paul does this thing, and then Terry Rostan
• 1:04:50
  shows up, which is. It's just Steve Pink all.
• 1:04:55
  Right. Yeah, Yeah.
• 1:04:56
  He's dressed up just like a cop, but he's very forthcoming with
• 1:04:59
  the information that he isn't. He's basically a security guard,
• 1:05:02
  but in heightened circumstances he has the authority to shoot
• 1:05:04
  you. Yeah, crazy.
• 1:05:08
  Two weeks. Yeah.
• 1:05:09
  Yeah, that was a 2. Week course that's.
• 1:05:11
  Brilliant. Well.
• 1:05:12
  That's it. How did?
• 1:05:13
  You get the key. Well, they were hiring.
• 1:05:15
  Well, obviously it's. Great performance from Pink.
• 1:05:20
  When he's just kind of fighting, he's a.
• 1:05:21
  Little bit he's like yeah, yeah. And just looking around, yeah,
• 1:05:24
  yeah, it's good. All these people in hush hush.
• 1:05:26
  Yeah, we all know these people. Who?
• 1:05:27
  Try to make things more important.
• 1:05:28
  Than actually are just to try and justify their existence and
• 1:05:31
  this guy is no different. Two week course.
• 1:05:33
  It's a nice scathing commentary. On gun control as well, in
• 1:05:36
  America. Done very swiftly, very
• 1:05:38
  humorously. Yeah, Terry's obviously the
• 1:05:40
  scourge of the town, throwing his weight around as if he's a
• 1:05:42
  policeman. Yeah.
• 1:05:43
  And Paul obviously can't stand it, showing up around to get the
• 1:05:47
  quarter to get. No, I was just driving and by
• 1:05:49
  and I saw some people milling around and Blank says no, it was
• 1:05:51
  just me. It was just one guy.
• 1:05:52
  He's like, all right, and then. At the end, there's this
• 1:05:59
  wonderful little gag where Paul. Asks if Blank has seen the
• 1:06:03
  house. He broke the deal.
• 1:06:05
  Oh, thank you for profiting my on my childhood.
• 1:06:07
  Yeah. Amazing.
• 1:06:08
  Yeah, great. I love Blank's delivery when
• 1:06:10
  he's just trying to. Fit into this over like everyday
• 1:06:13
  life when he's like, I want I'd have a house like this.
• 1:06:16
  I want a wife like you and you'll be safe and temporary
• 1:06:19
  about. Myself and you'll be safe,
• 1:06:22
  Terry. Rubbish.
• 1:06:26
  I think blank does more to torpedo.
• 1:06:28
  That. Situation than Terry does to be
• 1:06:30
  quite honest but Paul just takes it out on Terry.
• 1:06:33
  Oh that's wonderful. Yeah it's great.
• 1:06:38
  So Martin is revisiting his past, and the puzzle pieces are
• 1:06:41
  beginning to slot together. Leaving the house, we're still
• 1:06:46
  with Martin and Paul. Paul struggles.
• 1:06:48
  To contain his emotions. It has been 10 years, Matt.
• 1:06:52
  It has somehow. So he's driving.
• 1:06:54
  Him around, They'll go past Debbie's house.
• 1:06:56
  Kind of crept up. And you didn't it?
• 1:06:58
  No. You drove us here.
• 1:07:02
  Brilliant. As we've said, the chemistry
• 1:07:04
  between. These two, it's incredible.
• 1:07:07
  And you do get this, like, implicit shared history between
• 1:07:10
  them, which is somehow very understandable.
• 1:07:11
  You know, just shooting the beat, you know?
• 1:07:14
  Did your sister ever marry that guy?
• 1:07:15
  Kenny? He's like Kenny, Kenny, Kenny.
• 1:07:17
  He's got A tag on his legs. Three years of Juliet.
• 1:07:21
  Yeah. Let's not go.
• 1:07:22
  There. Yeah, Let's not go there.
• 1:07:24
  See, you feel. Like you've just dropped in on
• 1:07:26
  2. Offense catching.
• 1:07:27
  Up. But then out of nowhere, there's
• 1:07:28
  that explosion from Paul. Brilliant.
• 1:07:32
  Just the blast on the car horn. First of all, 10 years, man 10.
• 1:07:38
  And then the conversation comes back to.
• 1:07:39
  Martin trying to. Justify 10 he's a hit man and it
• 1:07:43
  comes back down again. Oh, do you have to do a post
• 1:07:45
  grad to do that or can you jump right in?
• 1:07:47
  I'm I'm curious about that. No, it's not market.
• 1:07:50
  OK, 10 years, man, 10 years. 10 1010 years 1010 years 10 It's so
• 1:07:58
  funny. I mean, this is clearly one of
• 1:08:00
  the most. Simplified scenes by clearly.
• 1:08:02
  Oh yeah, absolutely. It really feels like they've
• 1:08:04
  just said, Jeremy, 10 years is the line.
• 1:08:06
  Do what you want with it. Because when he blasts that car
• 1:08:09
  hard, John Hughes like really dropped, it's a surprise.
• 1:08:11
  Like what? Where's he going with this?
• 1:08:14
  One of the. Most memorable scenes in the
• 1:08:16
  film, obviously. And it just makes that point
• 1:08:17
  again, though, about no one questioning Martin's job despite
• 1:08:21
  the fact he's really honest about it because who would make
• 1:08:23
  up something like that? But it just really sells the
• 1:08:25
  friendship these two hard, which is really important because you
• 1:08:28
  need that for Paul helping them to sports the Felix later on.
• 1:08:31
  Yeah. But yeah, once you've seen this,
• 1:08:33
  anyone says 10? Yeah.
• 1:08:34
  Instant reaction in our situation, 10 years 10. 10.
• 1:08:40
  It's fantastic. That laugh that they both share
• 1:08:45
  right at the end, just before a cut, that was clearly genuine.
• 1:08:48
  Genuine. Yeah, I love it.
• 1:08:50
  Right at the. End and he drops him off.
• 1:08:52
  And Paul says I'll see you at the peaks, and I'm kidding your
• 1:08:56
  party. Yeah.
• 1:08:56
  Brilliant, brilliant dialogue from there.
• 1:09:00
  We're back at the. Ultimate.
• 1:09:02
  And this scene is just fantastic stuff.
• 1:09:05
  It is fantastic. So there's a lot of nods here
• 1:09:07
  with the films that came out before.
• 1:09:09
  Great touch with that kid playing Doom 2, obviously one of
• 1:09:13
  the greatest video games about all the time.
• 1:09:15
  It's still amazing. I've just downloaded that after
• 1:09:17
  watching this this morning. So I've downloaded that for me,
• 1:09:19
  son. So we're going to play that
• 1:09:20
  later on. He's got the two guns out.
• 1:09:23
  There's a massive John Woo reference here.
• 1:09:25
  There's the suit that he's wearing that's kind of flying
• 1:09:28
  all the way through. The destruction of this whole
• 1:09:30
  place is fantastically set up. Just when he just turns up, just
• 1:09:34
  running through the door. 2 Uzis.
• 1:09:37
  Just brilliant. Just.
• 1:09:40
  Do not. Expect them and it's just.
• 1:09:41
  Right here we'll go. And we're into the action and
• 1:09:43
  it's got a real Dustal Dawn vibe for me, opening a Dustal door.
• 1:09:47
  And it's very, very similar to that, just with everything
• 1:09:49
  exploding. The way it goes and even the
• 1:09:51
  explosion itself is excellent. I will say this, it's very fast
• 1:09:56
  and I remember it being longer, just like the fight later.
• 1:09:58
  Yeah, exactly. Quite fast.
• 1:10:00
  I. Think you fill in a lot of the.
• 1:10:01
  Gaps and I. Think a lot of that's down to.
• 1:10:02
  The editing as well, this, this rat, just this real kinetic vibe
• 1:10:06
  to the energy. But what I will say is that the
• 1:10:09
  most childish explosive device you've ever seen made in your
• 1:10:13
  entire life. Did you used to do the same
• 1:10:15
  thing with just like a lump of plaster scene and some speaker
• 1:10:17
  wire? You find light in the third
• 1:10:19
  drawer down in the kitchen. You just like, let's get all
• 1:10:22
  this, put some drawn pins in it and then stick it in the
• 1:10:24
  microwave. It's just really takes me out.
• 1:10:26
  But you just go, you know what? That's really, really fun
• 1:10:28
  because that that makes sense. Yeah.
• 1:10:30
  He was caught on the hot, wasn't he?
• 1:10:31
  Had limited time. It's great because you just look
• 1:10:33
  at it, you know for a fact that's an.
• 1:10:35
  Explosive. There's no research that doesn't
• 1:10:38
  say. Say 4 on it or.
• 1:10:39
  Anything you just look at it that's going to explode.
• 1:10:41
  Brilliant, Perfect. Like it's like something that
• 1:10:44
  Wallace and Gromit would invent. It's just really.
• 1:10:48
  Really great. And you've got that look.
• 1:10:50
  From Cusack where he's like just thinking about it for a second
• 1:10:53
  and he's like, oh shit, he's got to like move and get out of
• 1:10:56
  there. When you're looking at that
• 1:10:57
  counter, it's in the teens, it's in like 14/15/14, which you
• 1:11:00
  think great, he's got time to get out of there, He's got
• 1:11:02
  enough time. But then think about the whole
• 1:11:04
  he gets away with murder. All the way through the film.
• 1:11:06
  Soon it's grosser, but you just think that's unrealistic if that
• 1:11:10
  didn't count down in the right amount of time.
• 1:11:12
  So they've got to make some parts of it realistic for you to
• 1:11:14
  buy the actual tone, which totally, totally works.
• 1:11:16
  It does and then it cuts to the outside and I've watched this
• 1:11:19
  good couple of times. I don't think the hard
• 1:11:21
  necessarily a huge explosion here because it's not
• 1:11:25
  necessarily shot very wide. It's very close.
• 1:11:28
  It's like I made it's quite tight, which makes it.
• 1:11:30
  Look a little bit more. It makes it look bigger, Yeah.
• 1:11:34
  And I think when it cuts back to blank and the kid on the floor,
• 1:11:37
  you can tell that people are just off camera throwing shit at
• 1:11:40
  them. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:11:43
  Sure, like Ping and Devil said, this sort of.
• 1:11:46
  Behind the cameras throwing milk cartoons and just be like,
• 1:11:48
  brilliant kid. Him without one, right?
• 1:11:50
  Yeah. Absolutely tell and when the kid
• 1:11:52
  just walks. Off Are you OK?
• 1:11:54
  That's the last thing he says. The kid, which is also the first
• 1:11:56
  lady says to Martin when he walks in the first time say are
• 1:11:59
  you OK, man? He's like yeah, yeah, I'm fine
• 1:12:01
  and he's like are you OK? He's like, no, I'm not.
• 1:12:03
  I'm going to find another job. Just.
• 1:12:05
  Walks off that's. It and then it is it is over
• 1:12:08
  with no consequences. A lot of fun, a lot of nods to,
• 1:12:12
  you know, classic actioners like John Woo, like Tarantino, like
• 1:12:16
  Rodriguez. It's all in there and it really
• 1:12:18
  works. And shooting up that Pulp
• 1:12:19
  Fiction stand up as well, I think is a really nice touch.
• 1:12:22
  Yes, indeed. Yeah.
• 1:12:23
  I mean talking about that bit. Yeah, Armitage had to call
• 1:12:25
  Tarantino personally to ask if he could use that Pulp Fiction
• 1:12:28
  lobby card. Nice.
• 1:12:29
  And Cutie was a fan of Armitage's work.
• 1:12:31
  And he knew. Infamous days of working in
• 1:12:33
  video archives as well. So it was actually wide with
• 1:12:36
  scripts and shot up during the scene.
• 1:12:37
  And Tarantino even wanted a cameo where he'd be shot or
• 1:12:40
  blown up. But sadly, that never.
• 1:12:42
  That would have been great. That would have been beautiful,
• 1:12:44
  Yeah. Right in the sweet spot for
• 1:12:46
  Tarantino as well. Yeah, the danger is set up
• 1:12:49
  during the shootout. Added real tension to film and
• 1:12:52
  said my biggest memory of the civil elephant shootout is that
• 1:12:54
  the place was wired to blow. The explosives were being set up
• 1:12:58
  as we were filming so it was a little nerve wracking dangerous
• 1:13:01
  that the whole place could have gone up at.
• 1:13:03
  Any time it's really. Dangerous.
• 1:13:05
  I'll tell you what as well, though, what a cool move is
• 1:13:08
  sliding on his knees towards the microwave.
• 1:13:11
  Yeah, yeah, that's great. That looks great.
• 1:13:13
  Yeah, that great comic code. Just the kid playing Doom.
• 1:13:15
  Oblivious to the police gambling the shit.
• 1:13:18
  That's great. That's great.
• 1:13:20
  Yeah, well, I'm picking up after the whole.
• 1:13:22
  Aldermark. Tobacco Martin and Debbie me for
• 1:13:24
  drinks at the Hippo Club and it's a little bit of exposition.
• 1:13:27
  We find out that Debbie's been married and divorced.
• 1:13:30
  The fact that Martin knows this already reinforces that he's
• 1:13:32
  obsessed over Debbie for 10 years. 10 years 1010 Martin has
• 1:13:38
  Debbie. To go to the reunion with him.
• 1:13:40
  Revisiting a film that I've held near and dear for almost 30
• 1:13:43
  years and being critical of it is a difficult thing, but I
• 1:13:46
  suppose this is a bit of a stretch in the narrative for me.
• 1:13:49
  We know how emotionally damaged in the last 10 years have been
• 1:13:52
  for Martin. We can assume that it's been
• 1:13:54
  equally heroin, if not more so. For Debbie, she's just said for
• 1:13:58
  the last 10 years she's been left wondering what did she do
• 1:14:00
  or could she have done to stop and running away.
• 1:14:02
  She's been married and divorced, suggesting the state of Arrested
• 1:14:05
  Development as a result of Martin's cruel dawn departure.
• 1:14:07
  Maybe she forgives Martin very quickly and doesn't put up too
• 1:14:12
  much of a fight. We all know that she's going to
• 1:14:14
  that reunion 100%. Nothing's going to stop her.
• 1:14:17
  So I'm struggling to buy this a little bit from the character.
• 1:14:19
  Yeah. If I'm being critical, I know
• 1:14:21
  what you mean. Yeah.
• 1:14:21
  Yeah. But I do love it when Amy shows
• 1:14:23
  up completely pissed. Somebody else from Martin's past
• 1:14:26
  asking them where the hell he's been for 10 years.
• 1:14:28
  Still together. Yeah.
• 1:14:30
  Drivers. Creative.
• 1:14:32
  Yeah. Marv, where you've been, that's
• 1:14:34
  fantastic. And Amy's and Cusack, John's
• 1:14:38
  sister, yes. And then finally, the scene in
• 1:14:41
  the bathroom where the two Spooks are just hanging out
• 1:14:43
  there scorping out their target. Yeah, did not think it was a
• 1:14:45
  possibility that Martin would need to go up the toilet at some
• 1:14:48
  point. Yeah, just one of them not want
• 1:14:50
  to stay out. Just keep an eye on him.
• 1:14:51
  And the other one, just go in one time.
• 1:14:52
  Just take yourself a toilet. They've done a terrible.
• 1:14:57
  Job of remaining inconspicuous. Up to this point and when
• 1:15:00
  Grosser comes out of that cubicle, that's him.
• 1:15:04
  Why did you just go and shoot the fuck?
• 1:15:07
  But that's great because it. Explains why they don't.
• 1:15:09
  They have to wait until they see him in an illegal act and then
• 1:15:13
  they can pounce, which is why they show up right at the end.
• 1:15:17
  Yeah, that's great. Right then.
• 1:15:20
  Then when they fool him into going back into the stalls and
• 1:15:23
  oh fuck you guys, he's got a paper with him.
• 1:15:26
  He's obviously reading, so it's all set up, Martin.
• 1:15:33
  And Debbie have rekindled. Their flame.
• 1:15:34
  What could possibly get in their way?
• 1:15:36
  Nothing, truly. Let's find out.
• 1:15:44
  All the right movies. We'll be right back.
• 1:15:46
  Thank you for. Supporting us by listening to
• 1:15:48
  the sponsors for this episode. Thank you for listening to our
• 1:15:52
  sponsors. And now?
• 1:15:53
  It's back to the show the. Last of the Mohicans Michael,
• 1:16:02
  meticulous man, was all over the last of.
• 1:16:04
  The Mohicans, as we've been talking about, and that included
• 1:16:06
  working with his wider crew. So we're going to be getting
• 1:16:09
  into some of those people now. Trevor Jones and Randy Edelman
• 1:16:12
  as composers, the two of them, and Dante Espanotti as director
• 1:16:15
  of photography is another. But we're going to begin with
• 1:16:18
  the screenplay. Yes.
• 1:16:20
  So they are two. Credited screen writers.
• 1:16:22
  On the last of the. Mohicans, Michael Mann himself
• 1:16:24
  and Christopher Crow Man had three previous screen writing
• 1:16:27
  credits, Thief, The Keep, and Manhunter, all of which yours
• 1:16:30
  were directed. Christopher Crow had writing
• 1:16:33
  credits on five features before this, which were The Last Chase,
• 1:16:36
  Nightmares, The Mean Season, Off Limits, and Whispers in the
• 1:16:39
  Dark. All those right which you all
• 1:16:41
  have titles like. Episodes of The X-Files.
• 1:16:43
  So I'm going to watch them. Yes they do.
• 1:16:45
  Was he just writing for The X-Files?
• 1:16:49
  He was mostly. Known for his work in TV.
• 1:16:50
  Though, which is how man knew him and why he brought him in.
• 1:16:53
  He had to help with the writing workload, right?
• 1:16:55
  OK, so 2 writers taking. On a famously.
• 1:16:58
  Dense novel Matt, how did they do with the screenplay?
• 1:17:02
  It feels like the work of. People who really understand the
• 1:17:06
  book, but also understand what they need to change to make it
• 1:17:10
  work on screen for a different audience.
• 1:17:12
  Yeah, that would translate it properly.
• 1:17:14
  They could have got so lost. With this, yeah.
• 1:17:17
  It's really interesting, for example, what we said about
• 1:17:19
  Madeline Staub being told read. It is a love story, not an
• 1:17:22
  action film. Yeah, because they bring out
• 1:17:24
  those two elements really well in the script.
• 1:17:26
  It clarifies all the information and audience needs about the
• 1:17:30
  time period. You understand the British point
• 1:17:32
  of view, the French point of view and the Native American
• 1:17:35
  point of view. But more than that, it makes you
• 1:17:37
  understand the different point of views from the different
• 1:17:40
  Native American communities. It doesn't just portray them as
• 1:17:43
  a homogeneous mass. They've got their own
• 1:17:46
  perspective on these events, and it also balances that with a
• 1:17:49
  modern day perspective. We understand who he was on why
• 1:17:52
  they appealed to us, but it doesn't underplay the fact that
• 1:17:55
  this has all taken place on land that's been stolen from its
• 1:17:58
  people. So there's a lot of
• 1:18:00
  perspectives. The writings got to make clear
• 1:18:02
  perspectives that were from a very different era.
• 1:18:05
  And there's a balance not going on here between an epic action
• 1:18:08
  film and a love story. And I think the writing is very,
• 1:18:11
  very concise and crystal clear and what it wants to do.
• 1:18:15
  Yeah. I love that overall concept
• 1:18:16
  making it love. Story every bit as much as like
• 1:18:19
  action film, and it lends itself to that visually, just with the
• 1:18:22
  period. You see the sisters in the long
• 1:18:24
  dresses and the hats in the first act, and it's kind of
• 1:18:26
  reminiscent of like Jane Austen style romance or something.
• 1:18:29
  Yeah, just need Colin first to show up.
• 1:18:32
  But then other side of the coin, there's heart being cut out and
• 1:18:35
  people being burned at the stake.
• 1:18:36
  So just making that all work together, I think is impressive.
• 1:18:39
  And what Man and Crow did really well, I think was strip the
• 1:18:42
  novel down to like it's bare bones.
• 1:18:44
  I mean, I've not read it, but by all accounts I've seen the book
• 1:18:46
  is. It's a slog, apparently.
• 1:18:49
  Yeah. Someone's like James Fanny more.
• 1:18:51
  Cooper's one of those authors who writes like he's being paid
• 1:18:53
  by the word a bit. Yeah.
• 1:18:54
  But buried in there is this great story of, like, survival
• 1:18:58
  and love and revenge. And that's what the focus on.
• 1:19:01
  So they'd made smart changes. We'll talk about what some of
• 1:19:03
  them were, surely, But the shift of the narrative a bit to focus
• 1:19:06
  on different characters that change the relationships between
• 1:19:08
  some characters. Monroe dying in the massacre,
• 1:19:11
  like we said. So the streamline it make it
• 1:19:13
  more personal and all of it works.
• 1:19:15
  I think the dialogue's handled really well too.
• 1:19:17
  It feels like period appropriate, but without being
• 1:19:20
  too stagey. Yeah, I mean, stay alive no
• 1:19:22
  matter what occurs. I will find you.
• 1:19:24
  That's theatrical as hell, obviously, but it works in that
• 1:19:26
  moment. Totally.
• 1:19:27
  So great setting, great story. Only thing I would say is I'm
• 1:19:31
  not sure the writing takes full advantage of it.
• 1:19:33
  In some ways. I think how it looks like, the
• 1:19:35
  locations, the design work does quite a lot of heavy lifting.
• 1:19:39
  I think there's some storylines are given short shrift to say
• 1:19:42
  the least, which I think has an impact towards the end.
• 1:19:44
  So I'll talk about it then. But in terms of the plot points,
• 1:19:47
  it is just a bloody good story setting a fascinating time in
• 1:19:50
  place and that is executed really well and carries us
• 1:19:53
  through it, I think. Yeah, yeah, I have a feeling
• 1:19:56
  this screenplay would have been. Just as substantial as the
• 1:19:58
  novel. I think when they'd finished it,
• 1:20:00
  this would have been about a 400 pager.
• 1:20:03
  It could be easy. Yeah, I would imagine it was.
• 1:20:06
  And there would have been a lot of.
• 1:20:06
  Themes running through. I know the amount of times that
• 1:20:08
  he had to to recut this, the amount of times that they went
• 1:20:10
  over time, over the budget. I think man's put everything
• 1:20:14
  into this and Crows put everything into this as a
• 1:20:16
  screenplay. But for me, looking at the
• 1:20:19
  finished film and then looking at what the screenplay could
• 1:20:21
  have been, I think there's a lot missing from the finished film.
• 1:20:24
  There's a lot of elements here where man just expects you to
• 1:20:28
  understand the characters. There's no real back story.
• 1:20:32
  There's just a little bit touched here and there.
• 1:20:33
  He expects you to understand the period, understand what happens,
• 1:20:37
  understand the convictions, understand the French versus the
• 1:20:40
  English, and then, you know, the Native Americans and how they
• 1:20:42
  reacted to everything. He kind of expects you to
• 1:20:44
  understand what's happening in it and then places and kind of
• 1:20:47
  an action love story in the middle of that.
• 1:20:49
  You can tell that from the opening blurb of like, you know,
• 1:20:51
  three men of running through the forest.
• 1:20:53
  Basically come and have a look. You know, it's kind of where it
• 1:20:56
  starts and. I think a lot of this.
• 1:20:58
  Is visual. A lot of it is down too
• 1:21:01
  Spinotti, and it's down to man's style that he brings to the
• 1:21:03
  film, and I think that's the whole point of the screenplay.
• 1:21:05
  I think there would have been loads in there, but again, it
• 1:21:08
  felt like a work in progress. I don't feel like this was
• 1:21:11
  written and they're going to have to stick to it like a Coen
• 1:21:13
  Brothers script. We're going to have to stick to
• 1:21:14
  this, to the letter. I think there was room to move
• 1:21:16
  things around. But a lot of this, I think I
• 1:21:19
  would love to read this screenplay in its original
• 1:21:21
  format because I think there would be a lot in here that has
• 1:21:24
  been left out of the finished film, for sure.
• 1:21:26
  The novel was massive, apparently.
• 1:21:28
  So yeah, it would. Have to be, I think, yeah, it
• 1:21:29
  would have been a huge screenplay.
• 1:21:31
  And then in terms of his. Research man said that he.
• 1:21:34
  Read the book and took the major plot points and characters from
• 1:21:36
  it. But was more influenced by the
• 1:21:38
  1936 film by George B Sites. And he said he wanted to know
• 1:21:42
  what life was really like in Albany, NY, in 1750 when the
• 1:21:46
  film was set. And he came across the diary of
• 1:21:49
  Louis Antoine de Bougainville, who was a French writer.
• 1:21:52
  And he had served at the Ford William Henry seeds and mascot.
• 1:21:55
  And he took a lot from that to create the world and societies
• 1:21:58
  we see. Right.
• 1:22:00
  Yeah. You said that book could have
• 1:22:01
  been written like 3 weeks. Ago it was all for the sarcasm
• 1:22:04
  and like, modern wit and pretty similar to how things are now.
• 1:22:07
  OK, but he was more interested in the differences so LED into
• 1:22:10
  that, right? Lacrosse being one of them,
• 1:22:12
  presumably, Yeah, yeah. And so in the scene where we.
• 1:22:15
  Talked about. The French and British
• 1:22:17
  discussing terms. The letter from General Webb to
• 1:22:19
  Colonel Monroe is read out by a French officer called Capitan
• 1:22:22
  Debugonville, a reference to Louis Antoine Debugonville.
• 1:22:26
  Nice reference, that. Yeah, apparently those.
• 1:22:28
  Diaries focused quite a bit on American colonial families who
• 1:22:31
  were living, like, all out alone on the frontiers.
• 1:22:34
  And that's where the idea of the cameras came from, Right.
• 1:22:36
  So and all that's kind of real world weight, I think.
• 1:22:39
  Yeah. And man was also influenced by
• 1:22:42
  the writings of. Francis Parkman, and he was a
• 1:22:44
  Harvard historian who in the 1860s wrote about the French and
• 1:22:48
  Indian War, and he actually walked the path to Fort William
• 1:22:51
  Henry. He met people who were in their
• 1:22:52
  70s who had been told stories by their own parents and
• 1:22:55
  grandparents, so therefore first hand accounts of the war.
• 1:22:58
  And he took a lot from that about the relationship between
• 1:23:01
  the French and Indians being tense and having to be tightly
• 1:23:03
  managed by the French. And Francis Partman.
• 1:23:06
  There's an award named after him.
• 1:23:07
  Called the Francis Partman Prize, which is awarded to the
• 1:23:10
  best book in American history every year.
• 1:23:12
  All right, so credible source for man.
• 1:23:14
  It seems like Yeah Man's research included diving into
• 1:23:17
  the cultures of Native. American tribes, and not just
• 1:23:20
  the Mohicans. He included elements from the
• 1:23:21
  Iroquois as well. He said he had a free love kind
• 1:23:24
  of environment. This is where he got the idea
• 1:23:26
  for those I'm looking at. You miss sequence.
• 1:23:28
  Free love. Free love.
• 1:23:29
  The 1750s were swinging. Apparently free love on the Free
• 1:23:32
  Love Freeway. Hendricks in there.
• 1:23:36
  Imagine on the doobies. And as we mentioned, man made
• 1:23:41
  quite a lot of changes. From the novel by Cooper.
• 1:23:43
  And some of these changes are in the novel.
• 1:23:45
  It's uncast, not Hawkeye, who has the relationship with Cora,
• 1:23:49
  but it's very subtle. Man switched this to Hawkeye,
• 1:23:52
  presumably as he thought Western audiences might identify more
• 1:23:55
  with Hawkeye. Yeah, and hence the white
• 1:23:58
  saviour criticisms. I think yeah, yeah.
• 1:24:00
  But yeah, quite a lot of big changes from the page to screen,
• 1:24:02
  wasn't there? Yeah.
• 1:24:04
  And Hawkeye was inspired by a real American.
• 1:24:06
  Frontiers man Daniel Boone, which is why his real name is
• 1:24:09
  Nathaniel. He's called Nathaniel Bumper in
• 1:24:11
  the book, and man changed that to Nathaniel Poor for the film.
• 1:24:16
  Yeah, he said. They thought Natty Bumper.
• 1:24:17
  Which is what the column in the book would have got laughs from
• 1:24:19
  the audience. So he changed.
• 1:24:21
  It definitely would. God damn, that's.
• 1:24:24
  Easily, there he comes, Natty, Bumble and at the end of the
• 1:24:29
  film, Sachem, the tribe leader. Refers to Cora as the dark child
• 1:24:33
  of Monroe. And this is because in the book,
• 1:24:35
  Cora was the daughter of Monroe and the black woman.
• 1:24:38
  So it was therefore mixed race, right?
• 1:24:40
  Yeah. I mean it works because
• 1:24:41
  Madeline. Stores like a brunette.
• 1:24:43
  But not quite the same thing, is it?
• 1:24:45
  Not really, no. And in the book, it's not
• 1:24:47
  Hawkeye Who's. In love with Cora.
• 1:24:48
  It's Magwa, right? That'll be weird based on what
• 1:24:51
  we get. Yeah, that's really weird.
• 1:24:52
  Imagine his lingering looks. Oh, God, no.
• 1:24:56
  The book sounds. Totally different, yeah.
• 1:24:58
  Yeah, and in the book. Heywood is an American.
• 1:25:01
  Colonist who joined the British Army and he, Monroe and Alice
• 1:25:05
  all survive until the end of the story, whereas they all die in
• 1:25:08
  the film and in the book. Cora is actually Kildo.
• 1:25:12
  Yeah, in the book Big Dunk has a thing with.
• 1:25:14
  Alice and they end up together, right?
• 1:25:16
  So I thought he was going wrong. Yeah.
• 1:25:17
  He went for the wrong sister, Yeah.
• 1:25:20
  For their work on adapting The Lust of the Mohicans, Michael
• 1:25:23
  Mann and Christopher Crowe weren't nominated for any
• 1:25:25
  screenplay awards. But for us, in taking what's
• 1:25:28
  been critiqued as a not great novel in some ways and turning
• 1:25:31
  it into a lean, well researched narrative, Some impressive
• 1:25:34
  screen writing here. Yeah, it's pretty impressive.
• 1:25:36
  Yeah. Really good.
• 1:25:37
  Like I say, I'd love. To read the actual first.
• 1:25:39
  Draft of it, I think will be very, very interesting.
• 1:25:41
  It would. We're diving.
• 1:25:44
  Deep into the music now and the composers.
• 1:25:46
  On The Last of the Mohicans were Trevor Jones and Randy Edelman.
• 1:25:50
  Jones had written for 22 films before this, including The Dark
• 1:25:53
  Crystal, Labyrinth, Mississippi Burning, and Arachnophobia.
• 1:25:57
  Nice. Did he do dance Magic dance or
• 1:25:59
  was that just Bowie? Edelman had 16 future credits,
• 1:26:04
  including. Twins, Ghostbusters 2,
• 1:26:06
  Kindergarten Cop, My Cousin Vinny and Beethoven.
• 1:26:09
  Right? So an eclectic filmography to
• 1:26:12
  this point, Matt, how did Trevor Jones and Randy Edelman do with
• 1:26:16
  the music? I mean, none of those films give
• 1:26:18
  you any clue as to how good this.
• 1:26:19
  Is going to sound no? You would think what the issue
• 1:26:22
  with. Stephanie, those guys.
• 1:26:23
  Imagine this in Beethoven exactly.
• 1:26:25
  Yeah, I mean, this is just wonderful.
• 1:26:28
  It's. Majestic.
• 1:26:29
  It's emotional, it's exciting, it's romantic, it's sweeps.
• 1:26:32
  He belong with the visuals. It enriches every action scene,
• 1:26:36
  every theme for every character Just sounds correct.
• 1:26:39
  Like I'll go back to what I said about the top this film being
• 1:26:42
  under appreciated. I think that's true of every
• 1:26:44
  element, but definitely the squad.
• 1:26:45
  I don't think it gets the kudos that James Horner gets for
• 1:26:48
  Braveheart, for example, but it should because it's just so
• 1:26:51
  packed. And as soon as you hear this you
• 1:26:53
  you'll be haunted for days after.
• 1:26:55
  It's, you know, scenes like the promontory, which we'll talk
• 1:26:57
  about and like he ever done the dishes and had this on in the
• 1:27:00
  background. It's just makes it epic.
• 1:27:02
  You'll get like the housework done so quickly.
• 1:27:04
  Just listen. Just smashing them.
• 1:27:06
  I'll buy new ones. Fuck.
• 1:27:07
  It exactly, yeah. Just gets you really pumped up
• 1:27:11
  for it, I'm just saying. It's incredible stuff.
• 1:27:13
  And I tell you, who else loves this, Justin?
• 1:27:15
  How? It's because I think his
• 1:27:16
  soundtrack for First Man takes a lot from this, right?
• 1:27:20
  Yeah, yeah. If you go back, listen to the
• 1:27:22
  piece that does the moon landing that's really, really influenced
• 1:27:25
  by this. But yeah, love it.
• 1:27:27
  Yeah, I think when you talk to anyone about the Last the
• 1:27:28
  Mohicans. One of the first things that
• 1:27:30
  comes up is the music, mostly that main theme, but it's not
• 1:27:33
  just that. We hear music, like, almost
• 1:27:35
  constantly, and it's always helping with the tone.
• 1:27:37
  And the world building is this blend of like 18th century
• 1:27:41
  period music and almost modern Celtic music, it seems like.
• 1:27:45
  I mean, why Scottish folk music is playing over colonial
• 1:27:47
  America, I'm not sure. But it captures that sense of,
• 1:27:50
  like, romanticism that we get all the way through.
• 1:27:52
  In fact, I think the music is a key part of that.
• 1:27:54
  But yeah, it is the main title theme that people usually talk
• 1:27:57
  about, and for good reason. It's absolutely massive.
• 1:28:00
  Yeah. Right from the start, the score
• 1:28:02
  builds with that back story titles that we talked about.
• 1:28:04
  And then when it kicks in, we get the logo, The Last of the
• 1:28:06
  Mohicans, huge on the screen. It's crazy.
• 1:28:10
  But what I love is how kind of following the narrative
• 1:28:12
  structure. There's two main themes, the big
• 1:28:14
  action one and the softer romance one.
• 1:28:17
  And what works really well is that they're both based off the
• 1:28:19
  same piece of music. The romantic piece is the melody
• 1:28:22
  and the action pieces, like the harmony.
• 1:28:23
  Yeah. So in the film, it's part love
• 1:28:25
  story, part action epic. If you had two very distinct
• 1:28:28
  themes, it might be a bit divisive maybe.
• 1:28:30
  But that link, I think, is one of the things that helps bring
• 1:28:32
  everything together. Yeah.
• 1:28:34
  And when the music does come together, like in the climax,
• 1:28:36
  we're going to talk about when we hear the romance theme and
• 1:28:39
  the action theme at the same time.
• 1:28:40
  Oh yeah. I mean, get out.
• 1:28:41
  Who's not liking that? Forget about it.
• 1:28:44
  The first time I heard The Beatles.
• 1:28:47
  Because the love and the. Action are harmony together on.
• 1:28:50
  The inside, the upper third. Yeah, they are.
• 1:28:52
  It sits perfectly well. Yeah.
• 1:28:53
  Yeah. I mean, the music is the film,
• 1:28:55
  isn't it? For me, yeah, it is so, so
• 1:28:57
  important. It's almost up there with like
• 1:28:59
  Star Wars and how it turns it into this absolute epic because
• 1:29:04
  the shots are great. Yeah.
• 1:29:06
  But to have the melody go the same speed as the camera pan.
• 1:29:10
  Yeah. When they're running and you
• 1:29:11
  have the and it's the same beat as the steps, it just integrates
• 1:29:16
  so well into the whole tapestry of the film.
• 1:29:19
  But this is so noticeable as well as doing that like it
• 1:29:22
  really stands. It was like a spotlight on the
• 1:29:24
  music. You know you're listening to it.
• 1:29:26
  Oh yeah. But at the same time, it's not
• 1:29:28
  taking you out of the film. This is 2 separate things.
• 1:29:32
  Then visuals and that music, but the way that they're layered and
• 1:29:35
  the way that they put on top of each other, it's two different
• 1:29:37
  flavors, but they work so well when you get through them and
• 1:29:40
  they just melt together. I can't even think of half of
• 1:29:45
  these sequences without that music.
• 1:29:47
  Yeah, Like, this just picks it up and just puts it in the
• 1:29:50
  spotlight. It doesn't just whisper.
• 1:29:52
  This is what you're watching. It screams like this is romantic
• 1:29:55
  as fuck. Cry I.
• 1:29:59
  Mean if you're watching. This.
• 1:30:00
  And all you're watching. Is words like you said that main
• 1:30:03
  titles comes up, it fills the screen and you get blurred.
• 1:30:08
  If you don't like that, just turn it off because that's what
• 1:30:13
  you're in for for the. Next two hours.
• 1:30:15
  You really are. That is, it's.
• 1:30:17
  Unabashedly. Brilliantly.
• 1:30:19
  Done. And it's.
• 1:30:20
  So on the nose that I want to get punched in the face over and
• 1:30:23
  over and over again. I love it.
• 1:30:25
  I really love it. It on the nose the.
• 1:30:27
  Romance is on the nose. Of course it is.
• 1:30:29
  But it all kind of works. But it's on the nose that I want
• 1:30:32
  it to be. I want to be like.
• 1:30:33
  Head butted by it. The music really, really, really
• 1:30:36
  reinforces that it absolutely does.
• 1:30:38
  And man said he hired. Trevor Jones to write the score.
• 1:30:41
  Because of his reputation for writing epic, sweeping scores on
• 1:30:44
  films like Excalibur and The Dark Crystal.
• 1:30:47
  But the main theme actually came from Man's wife, Summer.
• 1:30:50
  They were struggling to come up with a melody for the main
• 1:30:52
  theme, and Summer told Man to listen to The Gale, which is a
• 1:30:55
  modern Scottish folk piece of music written by Dougie McLean
• 1:30:58
  in 1990. Man listened to it, loved it at
• 1:31:01
  the studio, licensed it and then gave it to Trevor Jones to adapt
• 1:31:04
  for the film. Yes, that's the GAIL Gael IF.
• 1:31:08
  Anyone wants to listen to it? Yeah.
• 1:31:09
  It is both the main theme from the film, basically, and the guy
• 1:31:12
  playing the fiddle on there, the main melody for the love theme.
• 1:31:15
  That's Alastair Fraser, like, a renowned Scottish musician,
• 1:31:17
  right? I mean, you pay for the best,
• 1:31:19
  you kind of get the best, don't you?
• 1:31:21
  Yeah, absolutely. When the film's release was
• 1:31:23
  moved from summer 1990. Two to September, Man realized
• 1:31:27
  he needed some new pieces of music written for the score.
• 1:31:29
  Trevor Jones had other commitments by then, so that's
• 1:31:32
  when Randy Andelman came in. He had a reputation for working
• 1:31:35
  very, very quickly. So it was hired to complete what
• 1:31:37
  man needed. Yeah.
• 1:31:38
  So they didn't actually work together.
• 1:31:40
  Jordan Edelman. And the Edelman wrote some of
• 1:31:42
  the more restrained pieces, like Cora Parley were written by him.
• 1:31:45
  Right. And he wrote the Courier, the
• 1:31:47
  piece for the sniper sequence we talked about.
• 1:31:48
  OK. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:31:49
  Which is good as well. Yeah, That's great.
• 1:31:51
  The worst? Job in Colonial.
• 1:31:53
  America, the Korea really is horrible.
• 1:31:55
  Terrifying. Yeah.
• 1:31:58
  And there's also a piece. Of music not composed by.
• 1:32:00
  Trevor Jones or Randy Edelman. That plays over the montage
• 1:32:04
  towards the end when the Mohicans attracting Hue on to
• 1:32:06
  rescue Cora and Alice. That song is called I Will Find
• 1:32:09
  You, and it was written and recorded for the film by
• 1:32:11
  contemporary Irish folk group called Clanad.
• 1:32:14
  Nice. Yeah.
• 1:32:15
  How good's it? Yeah.
• 1:32:17
  Like Clanad? Make Yeah, it's clearly a more
• 1:32:19
  modern piece. But that kind of, yeah.
• 1:32:20
  Ethereal pipe and percussion sound to it works great.
• 1:32:23
  Yeah. And again, there's ATV
• 1:32:24
  Connection Clan. We're known for writing the
• 1:32:26
  theme from Harry's game and also saw the main theme to Robin of
• 1:32:29
  Sherwood from the 80s. Yes, that's right.
• 1:32:32
  That's very serial. Yeah, Robin, that one.
• 1:32:36
  Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, that one, yeah, I've just
• 1:32:38
  went straight back when you did that.
• 1:32:41
  It reminds me of, you know, may it.
• 1:32:42
  Be again Lord of the Rings. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:32:43
  Lord of the Rings, Totally. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 1:32:46
  What was that? N yeah, that.
• 1:32:47
  Was N Yeah, yeah. Well, there you go.
• 1:32:48
  She. Was in crown out, wasn't she?
• 1:32:50
  She was, yeah. There, we're cool, you see,
• 1:32:52
  we're. Putting it all together, yeah,
• 1:32:53
  guess what? Episodes coming up soon
• 1:32:55
  everyone. There's been a few references
• 1:32:57
  here, isn't it? Yeah.
• 1:32:59
  It's the one unclanned. For their work on The Last of
• 1:33:05
  the Mohicans. Trevor Jones and Randy Edelman
• 1:33:07
  received no Oscar nominations for the score.
• 1:33:09
  The winner that year was Alan Menken for Disney's Aladdin,
• 1:33:12
  right? Was it because Trevor Jones was
• 1:33:14
  brought in later though that? Was the reason why they weren't
• 1:33:16
  nominated for an Oscar. Trevor Jones was the one in
• 1:33:19
  first and Randy Edelman came in after.
• 1:33:21
  I think that's why it was kind of disqualified because it needs
• 1:33:23
  to be 1. Concise piece by 1 composer, I
• 1:33:25
  think because it definitely would have up there for a
• 1:33:27
  nomination this. Yeah, I would have been a
• 1:33:28
  contender. Yeah, surely, Chris.
• 1:33:30
  Jenkins, Doug Hemphill, Mark Smith and Simon Key.
• 1:33:32
  They did win an Oscar for best sound though, right?
• 1:33:34
  And the sound design is pretty great.
• 1:33:36
  Brilliant. Yeah.
• 1:33:37
  But All in all, music and sound design.
• 1:33:39
  Some great. Sounds and last, the Mohicans.
• 1:33:41
  Yeah, easily. A first.
• 1:33:46
  Time collaboration with man on the writing and.
• 1:33:48
  Mostly on the music, but not on the cinematography, No.
• 1:33:51
  The director of photography was Dante Espanotti, who'd shot 25
• 1:33:54
  films before this and was working with man for the second
• 1:33:57
  time after Manhunter. Yeah, shooting firefights on the
• 1:34:01
  frontier this time. We're steep.
• 1:34:02
  Sure. So what are your thoughts on
• 1:34:04
  Dante's Inferno? It's a beautiful thing.
• 1:34:07
  I warm my. Hands on it.
• 1:34:09
  It's just great. It's really, really accomplished
• 1:34:10
  work and done. Espinati was Spider Man's go to.
• 1:34:13
  He did he as well. That's, you know, forget about.
• 1:34:15
  But even Manhunter, it has these stylistic flourishes where I
• 1:34:18
  feel like Spinati lights not with light, but with colour.
• 1:34:22
  It's the colour of light or the colour of the atmosphere that he
• 1:34:24
  uses to connect with the viewer and that emotion.
• 1:34:28
  So I've mentioned the thought, that's the warm orange, but he
• 1:34:31
  goes for these amazing Blues of the landscape.
• 1:34:33
  They've got that real contrast between, you know, the blue and
• 1:34:36
  the orange kind of work together and the harmonious.
• 1:34:39
  And like we said with the love story and the action, that's a
• 1:34:42
  harmony. And I think the Blues and the
• 1:34:44
  Reds in this film are incredibly, incredibly powerful
• 1:34:47
  and it works really, really well.
• 1:34:48
  That's just one element of it though.
• 1:34:50
  He really loves saturation and he really loves colour.
• 1:34:53
  And it really works because this should be quite desaturated.
• 1:34:55
  It should be quite dour for the natural light that's being used
• 1:34:58
  a lot of the time, but it really, really works.
• 1:35:01
  But what he also does really well is how to tell a story with
• 1:35:03
  the camera. And Michael Mann knows that.
• 1:35:05
  And I'll just give you a little bit of an example about the two
• 1:35:08
  relationships that are in the film.
• 1:35:09
  So you've got Cora and Duncan. So when they meet, everything's
• 1:35:12
  telephoto, everything's on the long lens, the cameras away from
• 1:35:14
  them. There's always distance.
• 1:35:16
  Look at them when they sat in the field and they've got the
• 1:35:18
  table, they're apart from each other.
• 1:35:20
  Even later on, they're always separated by a telephoto.
• 1:35:23
  Once you first meet all guy and the family's being killed at the
• 1:35:26
  farm, that's shot in a telephoto.
• 1:35:27
  When they disagree. As they get closer, the lens
• 1:35:30
  gets shorter, so their chemistry and their connection gets closer
• 1:35:34
  together. So they keep shooting on shorter
• 1:35:36
  lenses and it goes shorter and shorter and shorter.
• 1:35:38
  And then I'll cut straight to the final shot when they embrace
• 1:35:41
  on that mountain top. That's a wide angle lens.
• 1:35:43
  So he's bringing in the whole environment and they're in the
• 1:35:46
  middle of that environment together as one, and the
• 1:35:48
  environment has surrounded them. So they're now complete as a
• 1:35:50
  couple. So he's gone from a long lens to
• 1:35:53
  a shorter lens. And their relationship is
• 1:35:56
  basically built on the focal length and how close they get is
• 1:35:59
  then reflected in the camera movements and in the camera and
• 1:36:02
  the lens choices. Amazing.
• 1:36:03
  So Dan Espanotti and cinematography and camera work
• 1:36:07
  and lens choices, this just shows how important that is to
• 1:36:10
  tell a story. And that's just one little bit
• 1:36:12
  of it. Yeah, that's a really good
• 1:36:13
  example in this film, though, of how we do it properly.
• 1:36:16
  Amazing, beautiful and yeah, big.
• 1:36:18
  Fan of the cinematography? Here as well as I said about
• 1:36:21
  everything else, the challenge is kind of covering 2 genres at
• 1:36:24
  the same time in action and love story and having to blend it all
• 1:36:27
  together into one like cohesive piece of work.
• 1:36:30
  And but not he does that. I think he leads quite heavily
• 1:36:32
  on some classic techniques. This reminds me of like your old
• 1:36:35
  Hollywood action and adventure movies going back to the 40s and
• 1:36:38
  50s with huge wide establishing shots of misty forests or yeah,
• 1:36:42
  sweeping landscapes of the mountainsides, and then lots of
• 1:36:44
  very intimate close-ups for character moments.
• 1:36:47
  Very different tones and fields in those scenes.
• 1:36:49
  Well, the cinematography always feels very much of a piece, I
• 1:36:52
  think. I think it's great how natural
• 1:36:54
  it all looks with minimal lighting, it seems like to
• 1:36:56
  maintain all the authenticity. And that works.
• 1:36:59
  The woodland scenes always pull me in.
• 1:37:01
  The way the sunlight light peeks through the trees.
• 1:37:03
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:37:04
  The mud in the rain, you feel like you can.
• 1:37:06
  Touch it and. There was some real dedication.
• 1:37:08
  No, but but not in. His crew had to hike their
• 1:37:10
  equipment into the forests and the mountains for 45 minutes at
• 1:37:13
  the start of every day. Wow.
• 1:37:15
  Yeah. So it's classic stuff.
• 1:37:17
  And I've seen people compare the visual to David Lean, and I see
• 1:37:20
  why. Yeah.
• 1:37:21
  But the film maker reminds me of most.
• 1:37:22
  It's probably John Ford. Like, natural settings,
• 1:37:25
  energetic camera moves, intimate and epic at the same time.
• 1:37:29
  Yeah. But I mean, either way, if
• 1:37:30
  you're tapping into classic era Hollywood and you pull it off,
• 1:37:33
  you're probably going to get something pretty special.
• 1:37:35
  And I think but only gives us that.
• 1:37:36
  Yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely.
• 1:37:38
  I mean obviously the location. Shooting itself is incredible,
• 1:37:41
  but all the same, that's not enough for me.
• 1:37:43
  I could put a camera on a tripod and pointed at some mountains
• 1:37:46
  and I'm not going to make it look like less the Mohicans.
• 1:37:48
  So for me, it's all the logistics that Spinotti has to
• 1:37:52
  work with here. It doesn't look an easy place to
• 1:37:54
  put a camera, but Spinotti makes it look easy, no?
• 1:37:56
  And he moves it as well. It's not stationary the way that
• 1:37:59
  he gets that camera going at pace over and across this rugged
• 1:38:03
  landscape, through the forest. Yeah.
• 1:38:05
  Cross water. All the potential problems of
• 1:38:08
  not the light ebbing and flowing of clouds of changeable weather.
• 1:38:11
  They're finding somewhere to put the camera and put the lighting
• 1:38:14
  set up in places where you think there's barely any room for the
• 1:38:17
  actors, let alone a camera rig. Surely, like the up the side of
• 1:38:20
  a mountain. Yeah.
• 1:38:21
  Like, say, the up and down the crossing rivers.
• 1:38:23
  They're running through thick forests.
• 1:38:24
  And Spinod, he keeps up and he makes it look easy, which is the
• 1:38:27
  thing that, like, blows my mind about this.
• 1:38:29
  I mean, I would describe the Cinema Trophy in this as
• 1:38:32
  invisible because it doesn't feel like Cinema trophy, just
• 1:38:34
  feels like real life that he's captured.
• 1:38:36
  And that is just the highest compliment I could give him.
• 1:38:39
  Yeah. I mean a few years later if you
• 1:38:40
  look at the woodland. Shots or the jungle shots, I
• 1:38:42
  guess in thin red line they're pretty close.
• 1:38:45
  Yeah, he's kind of set the benchmark.
• 1:38:47
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And man, it's been like you.
• 1:38:49
  Agreed that a subdued monochromatic.
• 1:38:51
  Look for the film would work best to make it look more
• 1:38:53
  authentic. The lighting came from period
• 1:38:55
  accurate sources. Wherever possible, would light
• 1:38:57
  scenes by sunlight or torch light if they could make it the
• 1:39:00
  work. But again, there's color added
• 1:39:02
  to that as well. Definitely some clever lighting
• 1:39:04
  as well. Yeah, I like the lighting in
• 1:39:06
  the. Waterfall scene that we'll talk
• 1:39:07
  about because they couldn't film into actual waterfalls,
• 1:39:09
  obviously. So that kind of pounding water
• 1:39:12
  lighting effect was done by bouncing light from the lamps
• 1:39:14
  under these huge reflective screens and then shaking the
• 1:39:17
  screens to create the effect of running water.
• 1:39:19
  Yeah, I never even questioned. It just looks great.
• 1:39:21
  Definitely looks fantastic. And Spinodi said he was.
• 1:39:24
  Inspired by famous landscape painters, Thomas Cole and Albert
• 1:39:27
  Bierstadt were 19th century American painters.
• 1:39:30
  We were both part of the Hudson River School, and that was an
• 1:39:33
  art movement known for its landscape painters who focus on
• 1:39:35
  the beauty of the American wilderness, especially the
• 1:39:38
  Hudson River Valley. Yeah, if you look at their work,
• 1:39:41
  those painters. The influence is pretty obvious,
• 1:39:43
  Yeah, it is the framing of stuff, the colour palette as
• 1:39:46
  well, It's all very wide, isn't it?
• 1:39:48
  And the people are tiny in the. Frame like the start of the
• 1:39:50
  massacre shot or the bridge shot?
• 1:39:52
  Exactly. Yeah.
• 1:39:52
  The shots, yeah, that are like Thomas Corp painting.
• 1:39:54
  Come to life. That shot of the start of the
• 1:39:56
  massacre is one of them. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:39:58
  Before we finish on Dundee Spinati in the cinematography,
• 1:40:00
  we have another 80 RMPH. One question.
• 1:40:02
  OK, this time from Jacob Perry. Hello, Jacob.
• 1:40:05
  Hello, Jacob. So Jacob says.
• 1:40:07
  Man and spinati. Shot this film in upstate New
• 1:40:09
  York, walk in the beautiful Blue Ridge Mountains in North
• 1:40:11
  Carolina. Both of those regions have a
• 1:40:14
  rich indigenous history for Native Americans, which lends
• 1:40:16
  the film a level of authenticity.
• 1:40:18
  What are some of your favorite movies where the shooting
• 1:40:20
  location has offered the same effect to the film?
• 1:40:23
  Right. And then Jacob says thanks again
• 1:40:25
  for the best movie part in the business.
• 1:40:27
  Oh, it's very nice. Very kind of them.
• 1:40:29
  Yeah. Thanks a lot.
• 1:40:29
  Jacob And that's a great long. Question.
• 1:40:31
  Jacob's Ladder, that question. Nice.
• 1:40:34
  Yeah, yeah. So what do you think, Westie?
• 1:40:36
  Great location shooting in the film.
• 1:40:38
  I mean this right up my street to be honest, but I've tried to
• 1:40:40
  think. Of ones that really add a
• 1:40:42
  flavor. And without the location, it
• 1:40:43
  just really, really wouldn't work.
• 1:40:45
  So I didn't want the location to necessarily be a character, but
• 1:40:47
  I wanted the location to really affect the visual of the film.
• 1:40:50
  So the first one I'll always go to was Days of Heaven, which I
• 1:40:53
  think shows like the American Midwest of Texas is just like
• 1:40:57
  without that setting, without that light and, you know, it
• 1:40:59
  just wouldn't work at all. Fargo, Oh yeah.
• 1:41:03
  I think you need that dark cold, that Minnesota, that snow.
• 1:41:05
  You can feel it. That's, you know, it really,
• 1:41:07
  really adds to the pool vision. That's the proposition which I
• 1:41:10
  think shows the Australian Outback.
• 1:41:13
  Oh yeah, Before anyone had been there.
• 1:41:15
  Better than. Anything else I've.
• 1:41:16
  Seen, to be honest, I think it's just really, really powerfully
• 1:41:18
  done. Your favorite Christmas film?
• 1:41:20
  That one W theater, it's up there.
• 1:41:21
  Yeah, it's definitely up there. I'm not going to argue with
• 1:41:25
  that. No, yeah, all of them.
• 1:41:26
  Films really work for me. I could be here for hours, so
• 1:41:28
  I've just read it in a little bit.
• 1:41:30
  But yeah, there are some main ones for me.
• 1:41:32
  Nice for me. Have you seen In the New World
• 1:41:34
  by? Terrence Malik Oh, yeah, of
• 1:41:36
  course I have. Yeah, of course you are.
• 1:41:38
  Westie I. Mean not one of his.
• 1:41:39
  Best probably, but it's. About the Jamestown, Virginia
• 1:41:41
  settlement in America and was actually shot in Virginia where
• 1:41:43
  the settlement was. Yeah.
• 1:41:45
  I mean, knowing that, watching it and it looks like it as well,
• 1:41:47
  it gives it this authenticity, but it also feels kind of weird
• 1:41:51
  and ghostly. Yeah.
• 1:41:52
  And the Revenant 2 in your radio shooting in the actual
• 1:41:55
  wilderness where the real huge glass survived authentic and
• 1:41:58
  brutal and make surviving on the frontier look like the hell I'm
• 1:42:01
  sure it was. And I think an obvious 1,
• 1:42:03
  Lawrence of Arabia. Yeah, lean filming.
• 1:42:05
  Not actually in like the Arabian Peninsula, but in actual
• 1:42:08
  deserts. Well, it's doing well.
• 1:42:10
  I think the landscape can become like a character like we talk
• 1:42:12
  about. And I think man pulls it off
• 1:42:14
  here as well. Yeah, definitely.
• 1:42:16
  Yeah. I mean like you 2.
• 1:42:18
  Fellas, my head automatically goes to Thames Malacanat.
• 1:42:21
  See the thin red line, the shooting and that, the heat.
• 1:42:24
  Just that sense of those soldiers in such a foreign land
• 1:42:29
  that they can't make sense of nothing in the location.
• 1:42:31
  Shooting really emphasizes that. One film I've already mentioned,
• 1:42:34
  but again, I would mention the Search.
• 1:42:35
  It's just that Monument Valley location for John Ford is
• 1:42:39
  incredible. And then at the other end, the
• 1:42:42
  scale, I'd say The French Connection.
• 1:42:43
  You can smell that film. You feel how cold and miserable
• 1:42:48
  it is there. So yeah, French Connection as
• 1:42:50
  well, I think, for New York. Yeah.
• 1:42:51
  I can't believe none of us have mentioned.
• 1:42:54
  New Zealand, Lord of the Rings. Well, that's coming up.
• 1:42:57
  Saving it, yeah. Yeah, saving it, yeah.
• 1:42:59
  Fair enough, I went to Australia instead with.
• 1:43:01
  The probably. Just over the water.
• 1:43:04
  No Oscars for Donde's for, not even.
• 1:43:06
  His work on the last The Mohicans, winner of best
• 1:43:08
  cinematography that year, was Philly Brucello for A River Runs
• 1:43:11
  Through It, Right. Still, for us, this is a great
• 1:43:14
  example of some beautiful location cinematography.
• 1:43:16
  Incredible. Yeah, it's really up there for
• 1:43:18
  me. And we're through the.
• 1:43:20
  Crew section on The Last of the Mohicans.
• 1:43:21
  From Michael Mann and Christopher Cross stripping the
• 1:43:24
  novel to its essentials. Trevor Jordan and Randy Edelman
• 1:43:26
  creating one of the 90s most epic scores on Dante Espinati,
• 1:43:30
  painting the frontier in torch light.
• 1:43:32
  Adding the others were mentioned and you've got a crew working
• 1:43:35
  very much together to bring Michael Mann's vision to the
• 1:43:38
  screen. Very much everyone working in
• 1:43:40
  harmony. You might say, you might.
• 1:43:45
  Training Day. Alonzo's master plan is
• 1:43:49
  beginning to come together, but first.
• 1:43:51
  He has to get the OK from his superiors before he can go
• 1:43:54
  through with it. And this is the three Wise men
• 1:43:57
  scene where Alonzo goes into a restaurant with no people in
• 1:44:00
  whatsoever apart from three high rank and law enforcement
• 1:44:04
  officials, the DA, the captain of the force and the big dog
• 1:44:08
  detective. He's the one who's done the
• 1:44:10
  disgusting story about the guy using peanut butter in a very
• 1:44:12
  creative way. Yeah, and horrific story.
• 1:44:17
  I think we can believe this. Meeting is prearranged so.
• 1:44:19
  Not too much of A narrative stretch.
• 1:44:21
  Yeah, I thought so, yeah. This is an exposition scene.
• 1:44:24
  A connector. To allow the plot to progress.
• 1:44:27
  Nothing really sexy about it on the page, but I think it's
• 1:44:30
  brought to life by a great location.
• 1:44:32
  All great decisions have been made around the dinner table in
• 1:44:34
  civilized circumstances. I really like the juxtaposition
• 1:44:37
  of that. And it's brought to life by
• 1:44:39
  great character actors. Yeah.
• 1:44:40
  And Tom Barringer being one of them.
• 1:44:42
  Yes. Alonso is basically going in
• 1:44:44
  here, cap in hand, so he's quite meek.
• 1:44:47
  If they don't give him the OK, then he is done for.
• 1:44:50
  But yet he's going in with all the ego and aggression.
• 1:44:54
  He's not letting any of that go. It's amazing.
• 1:44:57
  We're given a bit more information about what went down
• 1:44:59
  in Vegas and Alonzo needs to make amends.
• 1:45:01
  But what I really like that even though it's an exposition scene,
• 1:45:04
  you cannot spoon fed all of the information.
• 1:45:07
  I think you need at least one rewatch to understand that this
• 1:45:10
  is a payoff for a warrant for Rogers Bliss, Alonso says.
• 1:45:14
  Who's driving? That's not clear what that
• 1:45:16
  means. It means who am I paying the 40
• 1:45:19
  grand to for the warrant. But this links the scene with
• 1:45:22
  the Sandman's wife to going back to Rogers.
• 1:45:25
  Very good writing and memorable performances for a scene that
• 1:45:28
  could have been easily snipped out.
• 1:45:31
  Yeah, well, Studio XX actually did want to cut the scene.
• 1:45:34
  Because the felt it slowed the film down.
• 1:45:36
  But Fuqua argued that it was pivotal because it established
• 1:45:39
  that at least some of Alonzo's illegal crimes are being
• 1:45:41
  sanctioned by superiors. Yeah, makes sense.
• 1:45:44
  He also insisted that it. Provided a bit of breathing room
• 1:45:46
  in the film. And highlighted that corruption
• 1:45:48
  was institutional within the LAPD and not down to one dirty
• 1:45:52
  cop that came out with the Rampart scandal as well that it.
• 1:45:55
  Was rife throughout the entire force as opposed to just one
• 1:45:58
  rolled cop. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:46:01
  And then from this we get the culmination.
• 1:46:03
  Of the Rogers storyline and this scene of so much attention to it
• 1:46:06
  because we've seen Alonso just pushing Jake frog, do this, do
• 1:46:09
  this, do this. It's always been really
• 1:46:11
  compelling. Like we buy the argument and
• 1:46:13
  then you get them over. Really crosses line where he
• 1:46:15
  tells Jake to shoot Roger and it's played so brilliantly
• 1:46:19
  between the three of them because Jake thinks he's clearly
• 1:46:21
  not serious, but Alonso just says back down and he's grinning
• 1:46:25
  throughout and Roger thinks it's hilarious.
• 1:46:27
  So from Jake's perspective, well, this must be a joke.
• 1:46:30
  They obviously do this all the time to the new guy.
• 1:46:32
  And then As for said, that visual of the blind being closed
• 1:46:35
  and just the band of light across Alonso's eyes and you
• 1:46:38
  see, like not even metaphorically, he's physically
• 1:46:41
  refusing to blink here. Like he just won't do it.
• 1:46:44
  He's that absolute stare boring into Jake's soul.
• 1:46:48
  So Jake pretending like it's a kids game and he can laugh it
• 1:46:50
  off, but then Alonso doesn't laugh and repeated so you're
• 1:46:54
  with Jake at this point you think you don't know what the
• 1:46:56
  hell is going on and it's tension and it's tension and
• 1:46:59
  then it. Breaks when.
• 1:47:00
  Alonso does laugh and Roger joins in and he goes, ah,
• 1:47:03
  rookies and then bam, that close up of Alonso as he just turns
• 1:47:08
  and then it's a belly full of lead for Roger.
• 1:47:10
  So it's an incredibly shocking moment.
• 1:47:12
  The tension is brilliantly played out.
• 1:47:14
  But it is one of those moments that it's only until a few
• 1:47:16
  viewings later that you sort of question the logic of this
• 1:47:19
  because this is where Alonso starts to spill about.
• 1:47:22
  This was the plan all along. You know, he's been planning
• 1:47:24
  this all week. But thing is, Rogers about
• 1:47:27
  hombre, he will have many, many enemies, surely.
• 1:47:29
  And there must be a neither and quite a way to get him out of
• 1:47:33
  the picture here that doesn't involve dragging someone new
• 1:47:36
  into the team and hoping you'll get exactly what you want out of
• 1:47:39
  them. Yeah, like I said about the
• 1:47:40
  right, And it does get overly convoluted in justifying Jake
• 1:47:43
  being there for the whole time. And I think this is the one
• 1:47:46
  where you go hang on a minute, this is ludusly over the top by
• 1:47:50
  lons. Or to do this one simple thing.
• 1:47:52
  Yeah, but you know, the tension of the moment really sells it.
• 1:47:55
  Falls by the. Wayside a little bit because if
• 1:47:57
  one thing. Goes wrong, then the whole plan
• 1:48:00
  is out of whack. Yeah, yes, yeah.
• 1:48:03
  But he makes a convincing case. Doesn't he, Westie?
• 1:48:05
  He does make a convincing case because.
• 1:48:08
  You think that this is him completely unhinged and him
• 1:48:10
  completely gone against what is morally correct, but it then
• 1:48:15
  reinfirms it and makes it morally correct.
• 1:48:17
  And I don't quite know how he wrestles with this and does it
• 1:48:20
  so well. It's a really genuine moment.
• 1:48:23
  I've mentioned this earlier on and he feels quite out of place
• 1:48:26
  for his character. It's kind of licking his wounds
• 1:48:28
  almost at this point, tails between his legs.
• 1:48:30
  Like I thought Jake would be at a different position than he is
• 1:48:33
  now. I thought he'd be up for this
• 1:48:35
  and taking the money. I thought I would have got more
• 1:48:36
  of his trust by now. Shit, I need to go back and I
• 1:48:39
  need to get them with this dad love almost, you know, there's a
• 1:48:43
  real soft talk here to get his trust back.
• 1:48:45
  And the way he spins it, he's like he calls him son, says this
• 1:48:49
  is the game. This shit's chested and checked
• 1:48:52
  as you've got to go places and this great, great line.
• 1:48:55
  But it's just the way he spits it out as if, why don't you
• 1:48:57
  realize this yet? Just this justification of it.
• 1:49:00
  And then he talks about Roger and he's like he says he's your
• 1:49:02
  friend. He's not your friend.
• 1:49:03
  He's a High Roller. He's one of the worst people and
• 1:49:06
  it just needs to justify his actions constantly.
• 1:49:09
  Then he starts talking about himself and how Jake could
• 1:49:12
  actually be him, could look up to him, could aspire to be as
• 1:49:15
  good as he is. And he says, I walk on a higher
• 1:49:17
  path. I walk in a higher plane, son.
• 1:49:19
  And he says it again. You know, you want my job.
• 1:49:21
  You've got it. You can be where I am if you
• 1:49:24
  just believe what I want. And now he's offering him
• 1:49:26
  everything he wants. You know, Jake, right at the
• 1:49:28
  start of the film, right at the top, we never mentioned this,
• 1:49:30
  but he says you should see them guys houses.
• 1:49:32
  So it's all about financial security really.
• 1:49:35
  It is. But he's not taking the bait
• 1:49:36
  and. This is where Alonso is.
• 1:49:38
  Just pushing him slightly, slightly, slightly more and just
• 1:49:42
  changing it a little bit. But again, this is a massive
• 1:49:45
  giveaway here and he says if you want to change it, you've got to
• 1:49:47
  change it from the inside. If you want to be taken
• 1:49:49
  seriously, you need to be dirty. Is that not what he's doing?
• 1:49:52
  They're meeting with these three wise men, is that not?
• 1:49:54
  Is he not trying to frame them doing this?
• 1:49:56
  Possibly, not possibly. Is that not what he's seeing
• 1:49:58
  here? This is why he's so genuine.
• 1:50:00
  Is this actually the character of Alonzo that was seen
• 1:50:02
  throughout the whole film? I think this is genuinely him
• 1:50:05
  sitting in the car going, look, I've had to do all this because
• 1:50:08
  this is fucked and you're in the middle of this and you can
• 1:50:10
  really help us take care of this.
• 1:50:12
  But I'm done now and I've got to get out of here and I need this
• 1:50:14
  money to do it. You've seen everything, I've
• 1:50:16
  showed you everything. Take that and run with it,
• 1:50:18
  because you're a good cop and I trust you.
• 1:50:20
  But you can get that from this scene or you can get he's full
• 1:50:22
  of shit and he just wants money. So it's so well played.
• 1:50:25
  It is so well played out. It is really well constructed,
• 1:50:28
  Yeah, if you look at it from that.
• 1:50:29
  Point of view and really watch the film.
• 1:50:31
  This is so out of place for Alonzo, but is it?
• 1:50:37
  It's so good. So.
• 1:50:39
  Alonzo has made a convincing. Case for Jake and has once again
• 1:50:42
  got him back on side, but this time there are bound to be even
• 1:50:45
  more dramatic consequences. A crescendo of 1/3.
• 1:50:52
  Act with three. Huge scenes, starting with a
• 1:50:55
  visit to a different kind of neighborhood.
• 1:50:57
  So here Alonzo drags Jake to this place where he's doing a
• 1:51:00
  favor for an old friend, dropping off a blender and the
• 1:51:03
  CD player. Nice combo.
• 1:51:05
  Yeah, yeah, some favor. And to establish how volatile.
• 1:51:08
  The situation is. Food Quad double s down on what
• 1:51:11
  he's done in the past. He stuffs the situation with
• 1:51:13
  loads of surly guys bearing down on Jake.
• 1:51:16
  No dialogue, just staring at him with absolute menace.
• 1:51:20
  I mean, a little bit heavy-handed, but at least we
• 1:51:22
  get the picture. Yeah.
• 1:51:23
  And it's visually different to when he first goes into the
• 1:51:26
  jungle, the dead end street where Sarah lives.
• 1:51:29
  The threat ramps up inside and then goes up further still in
• 1:51:33
  the kitchen. A great control of tension from
• 1:51:35
  Fuqua. Who knows that this scene needs
• 1:51:37
  to land. Absolutely.
• 1:51:39
  Considering what's coming up. Yeah.
• 1:51:41
  Yeah. And oh, my, it lands.
• 1:51:43
  It does. Right in your face.
• 1:51:45
  Oh right, the scene. Always gives me a sickness.
• 1:51:50
  In the pit of my stomach. Smiley, Sniper, and Marine, all
• 1:51:54
  these three guys had not to be trifled with.
• 1:51:56
  No, no, no, no, no, no. And they all have different
• 1:51:59
  character traits. I mean, they're in one scene and
• 1:52:01
  they're so memorable. Smiley is the Quiet 1.
• 1:52:04
  Marine is the joke. You want Sniper?
• 1:52:06
  Well he's just as crazy as a shit house brat.
• 1:52:11
  And Raymond? Cruz, who later repeat on the TV
• 1:52:14
  show. Breaking Bad.
• 1:52:15
  He was originally cast to play gangster Smiley but ended up
• 1:52:18
  playing out of control Sniper instead.
• 1:52:20
  And this scene was originally scripted at 15 pages but it was
• 1:52:24
  trimmed away down right? I mean it makes sense to tighten
• 1:52:27
  it up for the tension. Yeah, because it just would have
• 1:52:29
  went out of control 15 minutes in 15 minutes.
• 1:52:31
  Yeah, that's just on the page as well.
• 1:52:35
  Yeah, exactly 20 minutes. Yeah, Cruz claims that his.
• 1:52:39
  Scene is the best scene in the movie.
• 1:52:40
  Well, he would do. Yeah.
• 1:52:42
  No, I got. Two pairs.
• 1:52:45
  That's a fucking good argument. If I'm.
• 1:52:47
  Honest Cliff Curtis ended up playing Smiley and Noel Gugley.
• 1:52:50
  Ammo plays Marino, the final of the three thugs in this scene.
• 1:52:55
  Gugley Ammo was a homeless as a team and in a gang before he
• 1:52:58
  found acting late in the 90s. Check out his filmography.
• 1:53:02
  He's working as if he'll never get another job in his life.
• 1:53:04
  He does about 8 films a year and he has done for about two
• 1:53:07
  decades. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:53:09
  Amazing during this. Card game scene.
• 1:53:11
  Fuqua told the actors to. AD live their lines and actions
• 1:53:13
  without Hawk's knowledge to create an unexpected atmosphere
• 1:53:16
  and real tension. It made Jake's uneasy attitude
• 1:53:19
  more genuine, as Hawk didn't know what the actors were going
• 1:53:23
  to see or do next. That must have been awful.
• 1:53:25
  It really works though. Oh, really?
• 1:53:27
  Works. You can see Hawks squirming.
• 1:53:29
  In his seat, trying to stay cool, playing cards, but
• 1:53:32
  underneath he's thinking more fucking hell, I'm not going to
• 1:53:35
  get out of this situation. Yeah, yeah, I've seen that gun,
• 1:53:38
  but I want to. Say yours and.
• 1:53:40
  You know what's coming, but he can't put up a fight because
• 1:53:43
  something will come quicker. Yeah.
• 1:53:45
  If he does put up a fight, then she's going to take it off and
• 1:53:47
  he's just going to overpower him anyway.
• 1:53:49
  And he thinks Alonso is still there.
• 1:53:50
  Exactly. Yeah.
• 1:53:51
  Point. So he's like, well, that's fine.
• 1:53:53
  I've got backup, exactly the backup of that, even though I
• 1:53:56
  mean. He should know by now, but it's
• 1:53:59
  sickening this interplay. And messing around.
• 1:54:01
  With the gun, the reveal that the car's gone, Alonso's pissed
• 1:54:04
  off, Jake is doomed. Yeah.
• 1:54:06
  Yeah. I often wonder why Smiley would
• 1:54:08
  provide all this exposition to Jake about the Russians again.
• 1:54:12
  If he's going to kill him, why are we telling him?
• 1:54:14
  Yeah, it's really. It's really Bond film, isn't it?
• 1:54:17
  Yeah. But that's nothing compared to
• 1:54:18
  what's coming in the bathroom. Jake tries to punch his way out
• 1:54:21
  of the situation, but he's done for.
• 1:54:25
  In the bathtub. Being dragged through the
• 1:54:28
  apartment. That camera shot?
• 1:54:30
  Brilliant. Being dragged to your doom?
• 1:54:33
  It's sickening. In the bathtub, curtains closed.
• 1:54:36
  He's going to get blown away. Oh, hang on, let's get his money
• 1:54:40
  first. There wasn't hundreds of
• 1:54:42
  thousands in the blender. That's not enough.
• 1:54:44
  We need $20 from his wallet as well.
• 1:54:46
  While he's still alive. While he's still alive, I hang.
• 1:54:49
  On with this a pink. Glitter purse?
• 1:54:51
  What the fuck? I.
• 1:54:55
  Mean this is a tough pill to swallow we've.
• 1:54:57
  Talked about it. It's there because the plot
• 1:54:59
  needs it to be. It's set up earlier in the film.
• 1:55:01
  Fair enough, but this just isn't happening.
• 1:55:04
  The thing that allowed for this to happen is the performance,
• 1:55:08
  the set up in the kitchen and Fuqua's handling, the tension
• 1:55:11
  and tone. It doesn't fall apart when it
• 1:55:13
  absolutely should. I mean, I'm not entertaining
• 1:55:16
  anything away for it. It's one of my favorites.
• 1:55:17
  They certainly the scene in the kitchen is probably my favorite
• 1:55:20
  scene in the in the film, right? I mean, it's such a coincidence,
• 1:55:23
  isn't it? It's very much of all of all the
• 1:55:25
  girls he saved on that. Day it's.
• 1:55:27
  Smiley's niece? Yes.
• 1:55:29
  And he took a purse. Yeah, I do like that phone call
• 1:55:32
  between Smiley. And the niece though like this
• 1:55:34
  reactor and rescues it because they're both good.
• 1:55:36
  He does. Yeah, Curtis exactly does.
• 1:55:38
  Yeah, but I do think he does. Press her a little bit too.
• 1:55:41
  Much, though? Yeah.
• 1:55:42
  Did you go to school? Yeah.
• 1:55:43
  Yeah, yeah. Did you say anything?
• 1:55:44
  Yeah. No.
• 1:55:45
  As did every class. You see the police?
• 1:55:46
  No. OK, OK, bye.
• 1:55:49
  Yeah, yeah, you know how you try and.
• 1:55:52
  Just make sense of something and make.
• 1:55:53
  Make it make sense just to defend it because the rest of
• 1:55:55
  them is so good and this is such a plot hole.
• 1:55:58
  I've made it my own personal mission to make this fine for
• 1:56:03
  myself. Great, have you got an answer?
• 1:56:05
  I have but I. Don't know.
• 1:56:06
  I mean, it's quite thin. OK, You know what he says on the
• 1:56:09
  phone that we've we've said we've alluded to before Jake
• 1:56:12
  gets in the car and he says make sure the bathtub is clean.
• 1:56:14
  Yes, make sure that you take everything off and before.
• 1:56:17
  He's. Dead.
• 1:56:17
  Make sure he's clean as a body, so you take all the
• 1:56:20
  identification off and then get rid of it.
• 1:56:22
  So that's why get his wallet first, make sure it's clean.
• 1:56:25
  Make sure the scene's clean. Yeah, you're going to kill him.
• 1:56:27
  Kill him clean. Don't leave anything behind.
• 1:56:29
  Don't leave his identification. Get all the shit off him.
• 1:56:31
  So I like that. That bit's fine.
• 1:56:33
  Yeah. Yeah, I can.
• 1:56:34
  I can go along with. That it's just the rest of it
• 1:56:36
  where a city of 4 million people.
• 1:56:39
  Yeah. I mean, yeah.
• 1:56:42
  There is that Alonso knows. Who she is, I don't know.
• 1:56:48
  I just. Like that idea of getting the
• 1:56:49
  wallet and that's fine. Yeah, I can go along with that
• 1:56:51
  for certain. That's the issue.
• 1:56:53
  Yeah, it is a massive deal, but I.
• 1:56:55
  Don't mind that because. There's no, I don't think, I
• 1:56:57
  think we we're all OK with it. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:57:00
  Well, this brings us to our third and final ATRM patron
• 1:57:03
  question. This one is from Roger Pedacta.
• 1:57:05
  Hello, Roger. Hello, Roger from Ace Ventura.
• 1:57:09
  Rodge says this movie has. A pivotal.
• 1:57:11
  DSX Machina with the discovery of the wallet while Jake is
• 1:57:15
  being fed a shotgun in the bathtub.
• 1:57:16
  What are your favorite or top three favorite cinematic DSX
• 1:57:20
  Machina examples? Now, if you're not familiar with
• 1:57:23
  the concept, it's where a story or film or whatever offers a
• 1:57:26
  solution to a problem that seemed impossible to get out of,
• 1:57:30
  to the complete surprise of the audience.
• 1:57:32
  Yeah, yes. It's usually a contrivance in
• 1:57:34
  the narrative, inserted just to serve the plot.
• 1:57:36
  An unbelievable narrative beat. Yes.
• 1:57:39
  Yeah. Translates to God from the
• 1:57:41
  machine. Doesn't it?
• 1:57:41
  Yes. Yes it does.
• 1:57:42
  Yes, Something almost kind. Of ethereal happening for.
• 1:57:46
  No reason. That's right.
• 1:57:47
  Yeah, yeah. In this instance, Jake saved
• 1:57:48
  the. Girl from being attacked by the
• 1:57:49
  two hobos and miraculously, in the city of 4 million people, he
• 1:57:53
  happens to come across the girl's gangster cousin the same
• 1:57:55
  day in his bathtub. Yeah, yes.
• 1:57:58
  I don't know about favourites because I'm not.
• 1:57:59
  Really a fan of the. Concept.
• 1:58:01
  No, Yeah, I don't collect them. No, no, no, no.
• 1:58:04
  But I got. Three that came to mind, OK.
• 1:58:06
  Firstly, Ghostbusters, one of my favourites, crossing the streams
• 1:58:10
  at the end of the V Goza. Now, early we're told that
• 1:58:12
  crossing the streams is bad, and now, without any explanation or
• 1:58:15
  work to prove to the contrary, they use it to their advantage.
• 1:58:19
  Very convenient. Yeah, good point.
• 1:58:21
  Yeah, Superman the movie. There's an.
• 1:58:22
  Earthquake. And Lois is in.
• 1:58:24
  Deep shit. Miraculously, Superman is able
• 1:58:27
  to fly around the Earth with such speed he creates inertia
• 1:58:31
  that rewinds time, allowing me to save the day.
• 1:58:34
  Just do that at any point then, yeah.
• 1:58:36
  A superhero. Film, so I suppose suppose
• 1:58:38
  anything. Goes.
• 1:58:39
  But this concept is really tricky for me to swallow.
• 1:58:42
  I mean he never does it again when he.
• 1:58:44
  He never does it again. We've never even hinted at it
• 1:58:46
  before. No, no, no.
• 1:58:48
  And finally it's the. Wizard of Oz.
• 1:58:51
  OK, Witch of the West she got. Dorothy and her.
• 1:58:54
  Cronies right where she wants them.
• 1:58:55
  There's a glass of water next to Dorothy.
• 1:58:57
  How convenient. How convenient.
• 1:58:59
  Even more that this seems to be the only thing that can kill the
• 1:59:02
  witch. This hasn't been set up at all.
• 1:59:04
  No, no, I mean how does she have a?
• 1:59:07
  Bath or a shower? How does she stay hydrated?
• 1:59:11
  Portions. Portions.
• 1:59:14
  That. Cauldron.
• 1:59:15
  So those are my 3. Matt, what about you?
• 1:59:18
  First one I'll go for is War of the.
• 1:59:20
  Worlds the like traditional adaptation where the all
• 1:59:23
  conquering Martians are raising the entire planet.
• 1:59:26
  Nuclear bombs don't scratch them.
• 1:59:28
  But then one of them catches a cold in the old eye.
• 1:59:32
  Take some Lem sip, you'd be fine.
• 1:59:35
  Repeat it again on Independence Day, isn't it?
• 1:59:37
  But it's a. Computer they catch exactly.
• 1:59:38
  Yeah, very clever stuff. I don't know here.
• 1:59:40
  She Wells wrote it in the novel. But Even so, it's extremely
• 1:59:43
  convenient. It is.
• 1:59:45
  Second one is. Maybe the kind?
• 1:59:47
  Of deliberately playing it up a bit, but in Monty Python and the
• 1:59:49
  Holy Grail, when they're being chased by the black beast in the
• 1:59:53
  narrator says there was no escape for Arthur and his men
• 1:59:55
  until the animator had a sudden heart attack and died.
• 1:59:57
  And then you get back Gilliam Keelan over in his chair.
• 2:00:00
  I mean, it's played Flash, but Even so, of course they didn't
• 2:00:04
  think. Oh, that's brilliant, Right.
• 2:00:05
  Yeah, exactly. And then last one, I mean it's.
• 2:00:09
  Probably far. From the worst crime about it,
• 2:00:12
  but in Attack of the Clones R2D do suddenly can fly when he
• 2:00:16
  needs to rescue Padme from certain death about that the
• 2:00:20
  skill he has never demonstrated. Before or.
• 2:00:23
  Since in any other Star Wars film.
• 2:00:25
  But he can fly now. Yes, fine.
• 2:00:27
  Yeah, says my thing. 33 great ones.
• 2:00:30
  What about you, Wes? Do you got any?
• 2:00:32
  I've got 3 as well. I've read the claw in.
• 2:00:34
  The incinerator scene in Toy Story 3, right?
• 2:00:36
  Yeah. That just kind of comes from
• 2:00:38
  nowhere. It's a nice little callback, but
• 2:00:40
  again, you know, that's incredibly convenient.
• 2:00:42
  Yeah. The Eagles in Return of the
• 2:00:44
  King? Yeah, Lord of the Rings, You'll
• 2:00:47
  not know about that. But that's incredibly.
• 2:00:48
  Convenient. Would have been useful at the
• 2:00:50
  beginning, would have been useful earlier on.
• 2:00:52
  Yeah, but my absolute. Favorite is the frogs at the end
• 2:00:54
  of Magnolia. Yeah, wow.
• 2:00:56
  Yeah, that's my absolute fear because.
• 2:00:58
  What the fuck? What?
• 2:00:59
  On Earth, who cares? It's amazing.
• 2:01:01
  Yeah, Frogs at the end of Magnolia is the ultimate.
• 2:01:04
  Sex. Manner, I think it's fucking
• 2:01:05
  wonderful because it makes zero sense, but it's so satisfying.
• 2:01:09
  Brilliant. A great question, Roger.
• 2:01:11
  Thank you. For let us know if we missed any
• 2:01:13
  of your favorites. Please do so Jake has
• 2:01:16
  miraculously made it out of that bathroom and he's making his way
• 2:01:19
  to great confrontation. Matt, he is, as we've said
• 2:01:23
  again, bit. Convenient that he chooses
• 2:01:25
  service place to go first of all, and that's where he
• 2:01:28
  actually is. But that's fine.
• 2:01:29
  It's you know, it would be on the list.
• 2:01:31
  There's a reason for him to be, that's fine.
• 2:01:34
  Just love how absolutely shameless Alonso still is at
• 2:01:37
  this point. I mean, Jakes got the drop on
• 2:01:39
  him, he's going to call it and he's still trying to talk his
• 2:01:42
  way out of it. Unbelievable.
• 2:01:43
  I mean, there's only little physical bits.
• 2:01:45
  That Denzel. Does which are amazing and
• 2:01:47
  giving him the round of applause, but with the big
• 2:01:49
  blocks of cash, that's such a great visual.
• 2:01:54
  Because. It's it's funny, but it's also.
• 2:01:56
  Look what? I've got Jake.
• 2:01:57
  Do you want some of this? It's really tempting.
• 2:02:00
  Tempting, but like, say, just so shameless.
• 2:02:02
  Congratulations. Son, you made.
• 2:02:03
  It you're in like, I know he's charismatic.
• 2:02:06
  I know he is, but who's buying this now?
• 2:02:08
  Yeah, he's just got this absolute refusal to admit
• 2:02:11
  defeat, which is part of what makes him so compelling.
• 2:02:14
  But again, he's just always got an argument to make.
• 2:02:17
  You doubt? Yourself, you know you.
• 2:02:18
  Don't have any witnesses as to what happened.
• 2:02:20
  It's not what you know, it's what you can prove because
• 2:02:23
  obviously Jake does have the drugs in the system still and he
• 2:02:26
  doesn't have anyone that will back his story up.
• 2:02:28
  Then again, I think this shows the difference between the two
• 2:02:30
  because Jake could shoot Alonzo here and now and probably get
• 2:02:34
  away with it, but he never would because that's the divine line
• 2:02:37
  and that's the line he won't cross.
• 2:02:39
  So the confrontation, he was great.
• 2:02:40
  I love when he kind of dives out of cover in the London City.
• 2:02:44
  You know, I'm surgical with this, Jake.
• 2:02:46
  No, this, when you find out it was similar blue in the
• 2:02:47
  wheelchair, that's great. But I do think it's to wobble
• 2:02:50
  again a bit here because this is what I mean by here, having to
• 2:02:53
  resolve the conflict. And it's not as good as the
• 2:02:55
  setup of the conflict because the fight's pretty well done.
• 2:02:58
  But I think things like Jake hanging off the edge of the
• 2:03:00
  balcony and there's a spiked fence floor, there's a bark and
• 2:03:03
  really vicious dog about it. Get him and it's just a bit.
• 2:03:06
  Who's he going to fall? It was doom.
• 2:03:08
  Of course not. It's not the type of film saw.
• 2:03:11
  I think Washington and Hawk are really elevating his final
• 2:03:13
  confrontation because otherwise it's just starting to feel a bit
• 2:03:16
  generic at this point. This actual kind of physical
• 2:03:18
  fight that they have. Yeah, I think this fight I'm
• 2:03:21
  least bothered about. This fight and anything else in
• 2:03:23
  the film? Absolutely.
• 2:03:24
  Yeah. Even though, like, kinetically,
• 2:03:27
  it's well shot. Yeah.
• 2:03:28
  Yeah. The fight, it's brutal When,
• 2:03:30
  when Jake goes through that window as well.
• 2:03:31
  Yeah. In David A's original script,
• 2:03:33
  the film ends with Jake dumping the money on the bed and walking
• 2:03:36
  away. Without the fight, without the
• 2:03:38
  shootout, without King Kong, without the Russians.
• 2:03:41
  Wow. He always had in the back of his
• 2:03:43
  mind that the studio would probably demand changes.
• 2:03:45
  He said his was the art movie version, saying that it would
• 2:03:49
  have been a version that nobody saw.
• 2:03:50
  No, sounds good to me. I don't think that anybody has.
• 2:03:57
  Ever referred to trainer Diaz art movie?
• 2:04:01
  Definitely not. Definitely not but.
• 2:04:03
  Denzel was a big advocate for changing the end and.
• 2:04:05
  He felt the original vision was a bit of a cop out, no pun
• 2:04:08
  intended. It felt like they were keeping
• 2:04:10
  things open for sequel in his view.
• 2:04:12
  And he insisted that if Alonso lives in the worst way, he
• 2:04:15
  should die in the worst way. And for him, the best way for
• 2:04:17
  Alonso to go would be for the community to turn the back on
• 2:04:20
  him and for him to get slapped around and just end up crawling
• 2:04:23
  around on the ground like Snake. Yeah, the what a way to go for
• 2:04:26
  the character. Yeah.
• 2:04:27
  And there. Were a few different endings
• 2:04:28
  considered, including? Alonso getting away with it,
• 2:04:31
  another had Alonso killing himself and then the deleted
• 2:04:34
  scene. Jake pulls up, but he's home at
• 2:04:36
  the end and someone gets out of the car parked over the road and
• 2:04:38
  it's Tom Berenj's character who says and asks where the money is
• 2:04:42
  and Jake replies it's in the lock up, get the fuck out me
• 2:04:45
  driveway leave. And then he kind of must himself
• 2:04:48
  as evidence. Yeah.
• 2:04:49
  And so there's some unfinished business there with the three
• 2:04:51
  wives member that seems being deleted.
• 2:04:53
  But I think that would have worked quite like that at the
• 2:04:55
  end. I think it would have been all
• 2:04:56
  right because there is definitely some.
• 2:04:57
  Ambiguity right at the end when Jake gets home and the police
• 2:05:01
  reports doesn't say anything about corruption or anything
• 2:05:04
  like that. There's a cover up somewhere so
• 2:05:05
  he hasn't told anyone about anything.
• 2:05:08
  Yeah, I like that. I mean after the fight, after
• 2:05:10
  the car. Chase after the running over.
• 2:05:11
  Really, we end up in the same place where Jake isn't supposed
• 2:05:14
  to be without Alonso, but he's with Alonso and everybody's
• 2:05:18
  watching, and here is the moment that everyone remembers from
• 2:05:20
  training day. I mean, this scene is just an
• 2:05:23
  absolute. It's just a wonder to behold.
• 2:05:27
  It's an absolute joy from. Start to finish, just the way
• 2:05:30
  he's. Carrying himself and holding
• 2:05:31
  himself. And to me, this absolutely
• 2:05:34
  screams that he's been found out.
• 2:05:36
  It screams that he's got no other way to go if you wanted to
• 2:05:40
  follow that particular line. It also screams that he's been
• 2:05:43
  undercover this whole time and he's got no way out.
• 2:05:45
  He's got to keep this persona up.
• 2:05:46
  He's got to keep this act up in front of everybody.
• 2:05:48
  He can't drop it now. He needs that money to get out.
• 2:05:51
  He's got to play the character all the way to the end.
• 2:05:54
  Doesn't expect Jake to shoot him.
• 2:05:56
  Shoots him in the arse. He can't be in the ass.
• 2:05:58
  Me in the ass. Which again is.
• 2:06:00
  Belittle into the character. The next one will kill you.
• 2:06:04
  Just some of the dialogue in here.
• 2:06:05
  Just give me the money and let me go home.
• 2:06:08
  You don't quite know where home is because he looks over there
• 2:06:10
  at Sarah and look, she picks the kid up and they disappear and
• 2:06:13
  he's genuinely upset. He's emotional.
• 2:06:16
  At this point, your plan hasn't worked.
• 2:06:18
  So which plan you're following, it doesn't really matter because
• 2:06:20
  they all have the same conclusion.
• 2:06:22
  It all ends the same way, which I think is absolutely fantastic.
• 2:06:26
  But he's like, I'm going to burn this motherfucker down.
• 2:06:28
  Everybody's on my side. And he's just really clutching
• 2:06:31
  its straws here. Jake's in.
• 2:06:33
  I am not like you. And he realizes at that point he
• 2:06:36
  can't really do anything else. He can't pick him up, he can't
• 2:06:39
  push him down, He can't pull him anymore.
• 2:06:40
  His duality is over with now. He's completely revealed, but
• 2:06:44
  it's so powerful when he just leans up against the car and
• 2:06:48
  just says, you know, you can shoot me, but you can't get me.
• 2:06:51
  You won't get who I really am. You'll never get what I've been
• 2:06:55
  doing. There's something deeper here.
• 2:06:56
  Yeah, there's a deep you can shoot this, but it doesn't.
• 2:06:58
  Mean that that's. The end.
• 2:06:59
  Because I've done something that nobody knows about.
• 2:07:02
  This is just a character play. You've just been watching this
• 2:07:04
  act all the way through, which I really, really get from that.
• 2:07:07
  And it's just really powerful. When he said what a day he's
• 2:07:12
  like. I'm winning anyway, as if.
• 2:07:15
  He's done something and he's uncovered something that's going
• 2:07:18
  to play out that we don't know about.
• 2:07:19
  He's one. Yeah.
• 2:07:20
  And then the Russians turn up now the pull up at an
• 2:07:23
  intersection and absolutely destroy him.
• 2:07:26
  They shoot the car up. He gets out the car.
• 2:07:28
  There's no discussions. No, there's no characters.
• 2:07:30
  There's no people to speak do that.
• 2:07:32
  He recognized everyone's in masks.
• 2:07:33
  There's a woman in the car and he's blown away.
• 2:07:36
  It is, you know, James Carr blown Jimmy car isn't it is
• 2:07:39
  absolutely. You know, it's like.
• 2:07:40
  Like Bonnie and. Clyde blown away.
• 2:07:43
  He's absolutely destroyed and it doesn't.
• 2:07:45
  Matter whether he's. Got the money or not at this
• 2:07:46
  point. So honestly think there's
• 2:07:48
  something else going on because this is an execution.
• 2:07:51
  There's something else going on here where this guy needs to be
• 2:07:53
  taken out, and he's been taken out in the worst way.
• 2:07:56
  I mean, this scene especially and that King Kong line is just
• 2:07:59
  is huge. That should be funny, but it's
• 2:08:00
  not. No, it should be.
• 2:08:02
  It should be lacking. I'm King.
• 2:08:03
  Kong it's. Just definitely.
• 2:08:06
  So what's the biggest? Thing I can think.
• 2:08:07
  Of that's going to destroy somewhere and it's just you
• 2:08:10
  know, he could have hit you with anything King Kong, Godzilla
• 2:08:12
  anything and it would have worked.
• 2:08:13
  It's just that kind of size of it.
• 2:08:15
  Then this scene especially it was filmed at the palmwood Dr.
• 2:08:19
  culdesac known as the jungle in Baldwin Village area of Los
• 2:08:23
  Angeles. The Dead End St. in Black P
• 2:08:25
  Stones Blood Gang territory had gang members on rooftops during
• 2:08:29
  filming for authentic neighborhood presence.
• 2:08:31
  Amazing. Yeah, those surrounding Alonzo.
• 2:08:34
  Denzel, those are real people. That's their neighborhood.
• 2:08:37
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And obviously that line, one of
• 2:08:40
  the most iconic lines in cinema, I think.
• 2:08:42
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:08:43
  It was improvised by Washington on the spot.
• 2:08:47
  Incredible. Yeah.
• 2:08:49
  Fuqua looked at the cameraman after Washington delivered the
• 2:08:51
  line and said, I hope you got that because that's probably
• 2:08:54
  never going to happen again. Yeah, amazing, and Denzel later
• 2:08:58
  said. His ego was so big.
• 2:08:59
  That King Kong didn't register. When he gets out of his car,
• 2:09:03
  he's heading to his trunk to try and get some guns.
• 2:09:05
  He still thinks that he can get away with it.
• 2:09:07
  He was all about the ego. Yeah, he has been all the way
• 2:09:10
  through so that. Is it so we can finally pause
• 2:09:13
  for breath as the wild ride has come to an end with Jake making
• 2:09:15
  it home alive, barely in one piece?
• 2:09:18
  Yeah, barely. What's he going to say to his
• 2:09:20
  Mrs. when he gets home? I had no breakfast and I had
• 2:09:23
  some PCP. Sorry.
• 2:09:25
  Three fingers of whiskey and. Then Roger got shot.
• 2:09:28
  Who the fuck's Roger? What are you talking?
• 2:09:33
  About Amadeus. So that is the story of Amadeus
• 2:09:39
  and it opened in cinemas. On September the 19th, 1984, how
• 2:09:43
  to do when it's release? Well, our own statistical
• 2:09:46
  maestro is here to tell us. Wolfgang Amadeus Matzah and I
• 2:09:50
  saw from the top please Matt. OK, so production butchered was
• 2:09:55
  18,000,000. Dollars and Amadeus gross
• 2:09:57
  $90,000,000 worldwide. And that's even more impressive
• 2:10:01
  considering it only opened in 25 theaters and didn't have a wide
• 2:10:04
  release until months later. And it did amaze me well at the
• 2:10:08
  Oscars that yeah, nominated for 11 and winning 8.
• 2:10:11
  Solzhenz won for best picture. Milos Foreman won for best
• 2:10:15
  director, F Murray Abraham won best actor.
• 2:10:17
  Peter Schaefer won for best adopted screenplay, Patrizia von
• 2:10:21
  Brandenstein and Carl Cerney won for best art direction.
• 2:10:25
  Theodore Pistec won for best costume design.
• 2:10:27
  Mark Berger, Thomas Scott, Todd Bokelhider and Christopher
• 2:10:31
  Newman won best sound, and Paul LeBlanc and Dick Smith won best
• 2:10:36
  makeup. That's a lot of wins.
• 2:10:38
  That's a lot of wins. Last picture I was presented by
• 2:10:41
  Laurence. Olivier it was.
• 2:10:42
  About 77 at the time and you forgot to mention all the
• 2:10:45
  nominees. He basically got up and went
• 2:10:47
  Amadeus. So souls and for listening to
• 2:10:49
  the nominees during his acceptance speech, which nice to
• 2:10:52
  nice, right? Nice.
• 2:10:54
  I didn't mention Creedence though.
• 2:10:57
  Won't. Forget about the Creedence.
• 2:10:59
  Yeah, Orion Pictures promote. The film by putting together a.
• 2:11:01
  Music video for Mozart Symphony #25 in G minor.
• 2:11:05
  It featured David Lee Roth as a conductor.
• 2:11:07
  It was put together using clips from the movie and footage of
• 2:11:10
  big pop stars at the time like Madonna, Springsteen, Bowie,
• 2:11:14
  Michael Jackson, as if they were kind of dancing along the track
• 2:11:17
  itself, which is great. I've never seen that.
• 2:11:18
  Let's see that, you know, it's quite fun.
• 2:11:20
  Yeah, it's the music that opens the film.
• 2:11:22
  Yeah, it's that piece of music I thought it must be.
• 2:11:24
  Yeah, yeah, it seemed to work. The soundtrack album.
• 2:11:26
  For Amadeus sold over. Six and a half million copies.
• 2:11:28
  That'll do. And it was the first classical
• 2:11:30
  recording to chart alongside pop albums in the US.
• 2:11:32
  Right. And of course, Rodney Amadeus by
• 2:11:35
  Fargo went the number one in 1985.
• 2:11:37
  Did. Yeah.
• 2:11:38
  The only German language song to ever get the number one in
• 2:11:41
  America. Wow.
• 2:11:42
  Mainly because it's a total banger.
• 2:11:44
  Well, of course, Yeah, it is. Yeah.
• 2:11:47
  Hasselhoff in there. Under the.
• 2:11:49
  Critics and we'll start. As we usually do with Roger
• 2:11:52
  EBIT. What did Big Rog make of
• 2:11:54
  Amadeus? Do we think?
• 2:11:55
  I reckon he loved it. Full marks.
• 2:11:58
  Easily, of course, it was four stars out of fall.
• 2:12:00
  From Roger yeah, obviously, he said Amadeus is one of the
• 2:12:04
  riskiest gambles the film maker has taken in a long time.
• 2:12:07
  There's nothing cheap or unworthy about the approach in
• 2:12:10
  magnificent film, full and tender and funny and charming.
• 2:12:14
  It was risky for former non souls hands to pay for it all.
• 2:12:17
  Yeah, yeah, Zach readings, obviously.
• 2:12:20
  Obviously. Pauline Kael of The New Yorker
• 2:12:22
  was less impressed and said Milos Foreman trudges through
• 2:12:25
  the movie as if every step were a major contribution to art.
• 2:12:29
  And he keeps the audience hooked by showing you Mozart as a
• 2:12:32
  rubber faced buffoon with a Randy mind, as if that were all
• 2:12:35
  there was to him. There's nothing but confusion at
• 2:12:38
  the heart of the movie. Oh really?
• 2:12:40
  Wow, that's a very confused. And strange take rubber faced
• 2:12:45
  grinning buffoon. Jim Carrey.
• 2:12:47
  Exactly. I mean, yes.
• 2:12:49
  But I think mortal would love that.
• 2:12:51
  Yeah, you would have. Yeah.
• 2:12:52
  Yeah. And full marks.
• 2:12:53
  From Empire. Magazine.
• 2:12:54
  In a retrospective of you, Ian Nathan gave the film five stars
• 2:12:58
  over the five and said a towering achievement.
• 2:13:01
  The film, so magnificent and ornate, is posing very human
• 2:13:04
  conflict on a grand scale. Self aware mediocrity versus
• 2:13:07
  blind talent, liberated creativity versus the
• 2:13:10
  establishment performance period.
• 2:13:12
  Piece is worth every second of demands of you.
• 2:13:15
  The music is pretty good too. Yep, agreed, the music is pretty
• 2:13:18
  good. Yes, it is.
• 2:13:20
  And today on Rotten Tomorrow's. Amadeus has a critics approval
• 2:13:23
  rating of 90% and 95% from audiences.
• 2:13:27
  And then on IMDb, it currently sits with a rating of 8.4 out of
• 2:13:32
  10, putting at 73rd on the IMDb top 250 list.
• 2:13:36
  And that is one place below Coco and one above Avengers.
• 2:13:40
  End game. What it for you all that is?
• 2:13:43
  Yeah, Yeah. It's Saturday night, isn't it?
• 2:13:48
  Actually, another Marvel tidbit with Amadeus.
• 2:13:50
  Have you seen the first Iron Man film?
• 2:13:52
  Yeah. So Jeff Bridges plays Orbit.
• 2:13:54
  I asked in who was, like, a poor man.
• 2:13:56
  Tony Stark. There's a scene where he plays
• 2:13:58
  the piano and he's playing a piece by Antonio Salieri, right,
• 2:14:02
  Which is a nice reference. Yeah.
• 2:14:04
  Yeah. Great.
• 2:14:05
  So Amadeus was released A. Critical acclaim on Boxer.
• 2:14:07
  For success 8 Oscars, including the big ones, tripling its
• 2:14:11
  budget and introducing Mozart to the MTV generation.
• 2:14:14
  Yeah, not bad for a three hour period costume drama about
• 2:14:17
  classical music, is it? Not bad at all.
• 2:14:20
  There are no sequels to Amadeus. Milos Foreman.
• 2:14:22
  Never tried to follow this one up.
• 2:14:23
  No. I think this might be,
• 2:14:25
  thankfully, a film where you literally couldn't make a sequel
• 2:14:27
  even if you wanted to. No.
• 2:14:29
  No. Unless you do get Beethoven in
• 2:14:31
  there. Maybe Beethoven.
• 2:14:32
  It's Bill and Ted called Beethoven.
• 2:14:33
  Yeah, but what? About Amadeus impact, what kind
• 2:14:38
  of influence? And legacy has it had since
• 2:14:39
  1984, do we think, I think it's influence is that assured that?
• 2:14:44
  TV films don't have to be, you know, painfully slow and very
• 2:14:48
  restrained in emotion and performed.
• 2:14:50
  He can view people in the 18th century the same way you view
• 2:14:53
  people today. And I think something like when
• 2:14:56
  Armando Iannucci adapted David Copperfield, that owes a lot to
• 2:14:59
  this because it's very loose and it's funny and it's warm.
• 2:15:02
  I think it's legacy is that it's a master class and how to take
• 2:15:05
  something on stage and make it cinematic to the point where you
• 2:15:08
  almost think, well, how would this work on stage because it
• 2:15:11
  works so well as a film. Yeah, exactly.
• 2:15:13
  Individual bits, I think. Remember the scene in
• 2:15:14
  Philadelphia where Tom Hanks, this character, was talking
• 2:15:17
  about the classical music? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:15:19
  That's totally taken from this, I think, how they describe the
• 2:15:22
  costume music here. And the last thing I'd say is
• 2:15:24
  that Mozart and Salieri themselves have become shorthand
• 2:15:28
  for that kind of jealous relationship where one person is
• 2:15:30
  overshadowed by another. No, countless times I've seen
• 2:15:33
  counter relationship described as, or they've got a whole
• 2:15:36
  Mozart and Salieri thing going on.
• 2:15:38
  Yeah. And that's from this.
• 2:15:40
  It absolutely is. Yeah.
• 2:15:41
  I mean poor Salieri massively. Successful man in this time and
• 2:15:44
  now we're second. The best for eternity.
• 2:15:47
  Yeah. But yeah, the influence of
• 2:15:48
  Amadeus, it was pretty immediate, I think, massive
• 2:15:50
  success. It was an overnight classic,
• 2:15:52
  basically. And like we said, six and a half
• 2:15:54
  million soundtrack albums sold. And Falco, obviously, I think
• 2:15:58
  this make classical music more accessible.
• 2:16:01
  Before Amadeus Mozart, was this like, Dusty poured within a box
• 2:16:04
  of chocolates? Since Amadeus, he's been like a
• 2:16:07
  kind of Rockstar genius from 200 odd years ago.
• 2:16:10
  Yeah. I think it proves the studios
• 2:16:11
  that period costume dramas can be both artistically credible
• 2:16:16
  and commercially successful without being pretentious.
• 2:16:18
  Whenever we see a film like Immortal, Beloved or Maestro,
• 2:16:22
  it's like, oh, going for Amadeus, then.
• 2:16:24
  Yeah. Are we?
• 2:16:25
  Oh, my sort? Definitely, yeah.
• 2:16:26
  So I think the DNA of. Amadeus has been all over cinema
• 2:16:28
  since 19. 84 Every time a period film decides to be irreverent or
• 2:16:33
  when a historical icon gets the Rockstar treatment.
• 2:16:36
  That's Amadeus, I think. Yeah, I think it's for me when
• 2:16:39
  it's spiraled out and it's. Not necessarily about musicians
• 2:16:43
  or from an art point of view. I think if you look at the
• 2:16:46
  favorite by Yogas Lanthimos from 2018.
• 2:16:49
  Oh yeah. I think he's really trying to
• 2:16:51
  have that kind of spin on it where it's accessible but funny.
• 2:16:54
  And it's not necessarily supposed to be funny, but it's
• 2:16:56
  playful, I think. Marie Antoinette by Sofia
• 2:16:59
  Coppola in 2006 was very much the same, just that light tone.
• 2:17:03
  I get a lot of that from it. And when it is taught about
• 2:17:07
  composers, I think that can go for the heavy element.
• 2:17:09
  But at the same time they make it lighter and accessible.
• 2:17:12
  But they make the music really speak, which they're doing TA, I
• 2:17:15
  think from 2022, right, by Todd Field.
• 2:17:18
  And I think the music kind of really has something to resonate
• 2:17:21
  in that. So there's a lot of filmmaking
• 2:17:23
  elements and I think there's a lot of biographies that came
• 2:17:26
  after this. I mean, this Walk the Line, Rear
• 2:17:28
  Elvis, Save Mr. Blank, it's kind of countless really.
• 2:17:31
  They've just kind of made them. Oh yes, they make money.
• 2:17:33
  I think that's what Amadeus said.
• 2:17:34
  You know, make something, make it well, make an interest and
• 2:17:37
  doesn't really matter who it's about, it's going to make money.
• 2:17:40
  So no sequels to Amadeus. But in terms of?
• 2:17:42
  Influence From making classical music almost cool to showing how
• 2:17:45
  to make period dramas that feel new, the film's impact has been
• 2:17:49
  felt decades later. Definitely, yeah.
• 2:17:58
  Thanks for listening everyone, we hope you enjoy what you
• 2:18:00
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