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Accusers Take the Stand: Ghislaine Maxwell Trial Update · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:07
Speaker 1: My daughter Lucy and her twin brother. Of course, my
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Speaker 1: daughter is fourteen years old. Let it sink him. The
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Speaker 1: victims and the Gallaine Maxwell case are as young as
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Speaker 1: fourteen that we know of. How do I know there
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Speaker 1: are not other victims that we're younger than that? Think
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Speaker 1: about it Crime Stories with Nancy Grace today tomorrow. Every
0:52
Speaker 1: weekday during the school year, my daughter and son go
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Speaker 1: out on the playground. This is one of the reasons
1:02
Speaker 1: I drive by their school during recess because the Guillaine Maxwell,
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Speaker 1: Yes this highly educated, wasn't it Cambridge or Oxford that
1:14
Speaker 1: she graduated? Oxford in Great Britain a university. People strive
1:20
Speaker 1: to attain all the money, all the breeding, all the
1:25
Speaker 1: matters means nothing because according to prosecutors and according to
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Speaker 1: witnesses and victims that I have spoken with, and I
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Speaker 1: believe them, she would actually troll the playground. Because in
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Speaker 1: New York, the schools their PS public school, Public School
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Speaker 1: PS number FORTYPS number one fifty three. They're in the city,
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Speaker 1: so they have the basketball courts and play areas right
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Speaker 1: there on the street. They may have a chain link
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Speaker 1: fence around them, but you can drive by and look
2:01
Speaker 1: at the children twenty feet away playing and sitting there
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Speaker 1: having snacks at recess. According to witnesses, you would walk
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Speaker 1: around the playground, get out of a limo and go
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Speaker 1: over and strike up conversations with these little girls. Why why,
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Speaker 1: I've seen it a hundred times with my own eyes,
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Speaker 1: maybe a thousand, and all the cases I investigated and
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Speaker 1: prosecuted grooming. You befriend the child victim. They think you're
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Speaker 1: their friend. You give them money for the arcade, you
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Speaker 1: buy them ice creams, you take them shopping, and the
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Speaker 1: next thing you know, they're getting molested. That's what happens
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Speaker 1: fourteen years old. And of course now these ladies are
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Speaker 1: grown up. These girls are grown up, and they're in court,
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Speaker 1: and as you would predict, I know it's going to happen.
3:02
Speaker 1: Makes me sick to my stomach. I know it's coming,
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Speaker 1: and it's happening right now. They are getting torn to
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Speaker 1: shreds on cross examination. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
3:18
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation
3:20
Speaker 1: and Series XM one eleven. We read your questions, We
3:26
Speaker 1: listen to your emails and phone calls. Let me know
3:31
Speaker 1: what you think with me an all star panel to
3:36
Speaker 1: try and make sense of what is happening in the
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Speaker 1: courtroom right now. But first of all, I want you
3:41
Speaker 1: to take take a listen to our friend Mola Lenji
3:44
Speaker 1: at CBS taking the stand as Jane to protect her identity.
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Speaker 1: The first alleged victim to testifying Galaine Maxwell's trial today,
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Speaker 1: said she was fourteen and frozen in fear during her
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Speaker 1: first sexual contact with Jeffrey Epstein. She said she'd meant
4:00
Speaker 1: Epstein and Maxwell in nineteen ninety four while eating ice
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Speaker 1: cream at a summer arts camp in Michigan, telling a
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Speaker 1: packed courtroom that Maxwell befriended her then would sometimes be
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Speaker 1: in the room during sexual abuse that went on for years.
4:13
Speaker 1: She seemed very casual, like it was normal, she said,
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Speaker 1: with Maxwell just a few feet away at the defense table,
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Speaker 1: but it did not seem normal to me. Jane fought
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Speaker 1: back tears when she described flying from her home in
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Speaker 1: Palm Beach to New Mexico, where she saw Maxwell and
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Speaker 1: was told Epstein wanted to see her. I felt my
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Speaker 1: heart sinking into my stomach, she said, her voice cracking,
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Speaker 1: because I didn't want to see him. Let me just
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Speaker 1: put it out there. I think this is the same
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Speaker 1: witness as said at age fourteen, Gallaine Maxwell had her
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Speaker 1: straddle straddle like you ride a horse, straddle Epstein's face
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Speaker 1: and had her, this fourteen year old girl twist his
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Speaker 1: and apples and with that Allen start panel. Jessica Pride
5:01
Speaker 1: with me, sex assault lawyer with the Pride Firm. You
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Speaker 1: can find her at Victim Lawyer dot com. Doctor Teresa Gill, PhD,
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Speaker 1: professor's psychology, psychotherapist and author of Women Who Were Sex
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Speaker 1: Abused as Children Special guests Joining us for the first
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Speaker 1: time today, Detective Charles Duchamp with Beaumont Police Department Criminal
5:24
Speaker 1: Investigations Division, Special Crimes Unit. That's a mouthful and a
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Speaker 1: first timer the hazing began. Joining me. Brian Yennis, Fox
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Speaker 1: News national correspondent who has been covering this case from
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Speaker 1: the get go. Brian, it makes me sick. It makes
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Speaker 1: my stomach burn when I think about these women getting
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Speaker 1: shredded on cross exam. But that is the law. Under
5:54
Speaker 1: the sixth Amendment, you have a right to not only
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Speaker 1: a lawyer, but the right to confront translation cross examine
6:04
Speaker 1: witnesses called against you. Do I like it? No? Is
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Speaker 1: that the law as interpreted from the Constitution? Yes, tell
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Speaker 1: me what's happening in court, Brian, and don't airbrush it.
6:21
Speaker 1: I hate that. Just tell me what's happening. You think
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Speaker 1: I like looking into a camera and say a fourteen
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Speaker 1: year old girl straddled up stag's face and twisted as nipples. No,
6:32
Speaker 1: I don't, but that's what happened. Hit me, Nancy. We
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Speaker 1: knew from the very beginning of this trial, during opening
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Speaker 1: statements what the defense was going to do here. In fact,
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Speaker 1: I'm going to read you the first line from the
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Speaker 1: defense on that day one about how they were going
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Speaker 1: to attack these accusers. Are going after gland Maxwell. The
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Speaker 1: first line from the lawyer of Bobby Sternham was this.
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Speaker 1: Ever since Eve was accused of tempting Adam for the Apple,
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Speaker 1: women have been blamed for the bad behavior of men,
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Speaker 1: and women are often villainized in pun more than the men,
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Speaker 1: ever are. I guess he's talking about Galaie Maxwell being funds.
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Speaker 1: He is he and not the girl victims that are
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Speaker 1: getting shredded on the stand. Go ahead, exactly right. What
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Speaker 1: they are doing is setting the stage that what the
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Speaker 1: prosecution is doing is going after Galan Maxwell because they
7:16
Speaker 1: couldn't go after Jeffrey Epstein because they allowed him to
7:19
Speaker 1: kill himself in a jail cell, and now she is
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Speaker 1: the scapegoat. They also said that they were going to
7:23
Speaker 1: go after these accusers because of three M the three ms,
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Speaker 1: memory manipulation and money. They were going to go after
7:29
Speaker 1: these accusers and say that their memory was faulty, that
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Speaker 1: they were manipulated because of money, money that some of
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Speaker 1: them have received, including the first woman who was on
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Speaker 1: who took the stand, which was Jane under the pseudo
7:43
Speaker 1: name who. So she did accept five million dollars from
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Speaker 1: the victims Compensation fund, as did over a hundred other
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Speaker 1: victims through the Epstein estate. And I would like to
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Speaker 1: point out that's a double edged sword as far as
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Speaker 1: I'm concerned. Charles Deschamp, Detective Yeah, because as you were
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Speaker 1: hearing Brian Yennis Fox needs a national correspondent accurately report. Yes,
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Speaker 1: Jane not her true name, did take money from the
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Speaker 1: victims compensation fund. I mean, you know it's bad when
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Speaker 1: they have to create a multimillion dollar fund to pay
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Speaker 1: off all your child sex victims. Okay, So that said,
8:27
Speaker 1: that's a double edged sword, and I hope the state's
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Speaker 1: listening because they got their hands full right now, just
8:34
Speaker 1: in case they didn't think of this, I say it's
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Speaker 1: a double edged sword because of this. Yes she took
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Speaker 1: the money. Yes she can be cross examined on a
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Speaker 1: pecuniary or money interest in the outcome of a case.
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Speaker 1: But the fact that she was awarded compensation means that
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Speaker 1: another tribunal who runs that fund decided, yes, she is
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Speaker 1: a victim of Epstein's She's a real victim. So there
9:02
Speaker 1: I would bawl that up and wind back and throw
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Speaker 1: that right back at the defense. So what do you
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Speaker 1: make of that, Charles, I would think, I mean, she
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Speaker 1: is a victim. She was, from what I've read, fourteen
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Speaker 1: years old when this started, which is which is a
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Speaker 1: very young age. Her mental as that of a child.
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Speaker 1: She's not capable of dealing with things. She has hormones
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Speaker 1: and stuff, but she's not able to deal with adult
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Speaker 1: type situations that she was placed into. And people that
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Speaker 1: that manipulate and prey upon children take advantage of that.
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Speaker 1: And that's what was done in this case, where she's
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Speaker 1: you know, was taking advantage of amongst no no telling
9:49
Speaker 1: how many others that are probably afraid to come forward
9:52
Speaker 1: because look what they're doing to this this Young Lady
10:09
Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace. So Brian Yannis with me
10:14
Speaker 1: from Foxney's national correspondent. Go ahead, tell me what else
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Speaker 1: is happening in court. Yeah, So, Jane, we're called meeting
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Speaker 1: Maxwell and Epstein in nineteen ninety four at the age
10:24
Speaker 1: of fourteen at the Interlocan Summer Arts Camp. It's a
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Speaker 1: prestigious art academy in Michigan in which Jeffrey Epstein was
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Speaker 1: a donor. The prosecution brought somebody from the camp that
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Speaker 1: confirmed that both Epstein and Maxwell did go to that camp,
10:39
Speaker 1: and that's where they first met Jane. At the time,
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Speaker 1: Jane her father recently died from leukemia and the family
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Speaker 1: was going into bankruptcy. And this is part of what
10:48
Speaker 1: we've seen, are these accusations in which Maxwell and Epstein
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Speaker 1: were said to target girls, miners who were in families
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Speaker 1: that were either broken or going through financial hardship. At
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Speaker 1: that she was traveled between the ages of fourteen and
11:02
Speaker 1: sixteen between Florida and New Mexico and New York. She
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Speaker 1: took part in orgies in which she says Maxwell took
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Speaker 1: part in most of those orgies. Okay, why why wait?
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Speaker 1: Wait wait? A fourteen year old girl being in an orgy.
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Speaker 1: I don't even say orgy around the twins. Okay, every
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Speaker 1: woman in this room right here, there's three of them,
11:25
Speaker 1: are going and looking away. I wonder if the jury
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Speaker 1: is looking away, because that's that's a sign. When you
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Speaker 1: put up testimony or pictures or a diagram and you
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Speaker 1: see a drug, that means something. And everybody in this
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Speaker 1: room went when you said orgy, all right, don't just
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Speaker 1: throw the word orgy at me, Brian Yennis, what exactly
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Speaker 1: what orgy? Where? Who? What had that happened? So this
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Speaker 1: was in essential. What they would do is they brought
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Speaker 1: her in for one hundred dollars. They would say, let's
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Speaker 1: have sexualized massages. Maxwell. Maxwell would bring Um would bring
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Speaker 1: jam right here, getting a chest height go ahead. She
12:13
Speaker 1: would bring h Gilan. Maxwell would bring in Jane into
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Speaker 1: the room and normalize sexual activities. They would have conversations
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Speaker 1: about sex. Maxwell would undress herself in front of Jane
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Speaker 1: uh to normalize the fact that they would be naked.
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Speaker 1: They would go into the room in which Epstein was
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Speaker 1: supposed to be getting sexualized massages. He would be naked.
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Speaker 1: She would then Um do things to him as he
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Speaker 1: was either you know, masturbating at the time when she
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Speaker 1: would do Jane, Jane would do sexual As to Epstein,
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Speaker 1: what would sexual masturbation? Uh, Stay would masturbate us. Epstein
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Speaker 1: would masturbate and touch her breasts as well as Cilan.
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Speaker 1: Maxwell would so touch Jamee's breast as well in this room.
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Speaker 1: That's that's what we know as to what the sexual
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Speaker 1: abuse was like. They would have all of a sudden.
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Speaker 1: She says that the massage table would turn into some
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Speaker 1: sort of orgy where there would be multiple people, other women,
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Speaker 1: model type women. This was a fourteen year old girl
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Speaker 1: at the time, and Galen Maxwell was oftentimes in the
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Speaker 1: room and she would also touch the fourteen year old,
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Speaker 1: mainly on her breasts. What is Maxwell doing when all
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Speaker 1: this testimony is coming out? Maxwell is taking notes on
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Speaker 1: post its. She's looking dead in the face, you know,
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Speaker 1: she's looking back and forth. She's looking at Jane, the
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Speaker 1: fourteen year old accuser. She's also looking at the jury,
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Speaker 1: and she is taking notes. She's paying attention. Like you
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Speaker 1: say that that like you want going to give her
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Speaker 1: a gold star because she's paying attention. Do her nails,
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Speaker 1: remember Simpson? O J. Simpson said there and took notes too.
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Speaker 1: I think he was writing I am screwed, but it
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Speaker 1: didn't turn out that way. Then he had Jodi Arius.
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Speaker 1: She was taking notes, looking like a librarian with her
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Speaker 1: beat glasses on. Yeah, they're all taking notes. What else
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Speaker 1: can they do? Go oh crap, I'm screwed. No, they
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Speaker 1: have to eat normal. Take a Listen to our cut eleven.
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Speaker 1: This is Michael Jennevici nine News, testifying under the pseudonym Jane.
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Speaker 1: She claims she was just fourteen years old when she
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Speaker 1: first suffered abuse at the hands of both Jeffrey Epstein
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Speaker 1: and Glaine Maxwell. The court heard how the pair befriended
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Speaker 1: her and invited her to Epstein's Palm Beach mansion before
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Speaker 1: eventually sexually abusing her, abuse that she claims lasted for years.
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Speaker 1: Glene Maxwell has pleaded not guilty to six charges, including enticing, transporting,
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Speaker 1: and trafficking girls to have sex with Jeffrey Epstein. The
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Speaker 1: first of the four victims to testify, Jane was adamant
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Speaker 1: that she wasn't just groomed by miss Maxwell, but that
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Speaker 1: she was physically abused by her as well, describing in
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Speaker 1: graphic details group orgies at Epstein's home while she was
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Speaker 1: aged between fourteen and sixteen. She then described the impact
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Speaker 1: that it's had on her adult life. How do you
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Speaker 1: navigate a healthy relationship when you have a broken compass.
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Speaker 1: It ruined my self esteem, my self worth. I didn't
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Speaker 1: know how men were supposed to treat me, and I
15:22
Speaker 1: didn't know how I was supposed to reciprocate. You know,
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Speaker 1: I want to ask you. There's Brian Yannis joining me,
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Speaker 1: Fox and International correspondent. The name Emmy has come out
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Speaker 1: in trial. Jane, victim number one that we know of many,
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Speaker 1: many dozens of victims, says she was abused by Maxwell
15:44
Speaker 1: and Epstein, forced to take part in sexualized massages involving adults.
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Speaker 1: One of the adults is named Emmy, as she had
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Speaker 1: a British accent. Now is she using the name Emmy
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Speaker 1: for it going Maxwell? Or is Amy another person? I
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Speaker 1: believe that this is probably another person. I do not
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Speaker 1: believe that this would be I mean, we have to
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Speaker 1: understand that Maxwell was in charge of the house, but
16:15
Speaker 1: there were other women that were helping in setting epsteined
16:19
Speaker 1: up with these women. So I would imagine that this
16:23
Speaker 1: is another woman who was helping Apstein and Maxwell. I'm
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Speaker 1: quoting from an article. One of the other women to
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Speaker 1: take part in the orgy where everybody was taking part
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Speaker 1: in sex play was named Sophie. Jane agreed with the
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Speaker 1: defense that she quote knew the routine and that she
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Speaker 1: would quote make out with other girls during the intercourse.
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Speaker 1: Another woman who participated in the orgies was named Eva,
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Speaker 1: and when asked did she know the routine as well, Jane,
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Speaker 1: not her real name, said yes, you know. Jessica Pride,
17:08
Speaker 1: a sex assault attorney with the Pride Law Firm, the
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Speaker 1: law is very clear, even with adult women. For many,
17:18
Speaker 1: many years, the law insisted there'd be corroboration for a rape,
17:24
Speaker 1: such as a bruise, bleeding from the vagina, a bloody lip,
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Speaker 1: torn clothing, something to corroborate the rape victim's story. That
17:38
Speaker 1: is no longer the case. Corroboration in a rape case
17:41
Speaker 1: is no longer required. So the fact that this child
17:47
Speaker 1: didn't fight and scream and kick and claw and walk
17:51
Speaker 1: out of the room beat up. You remember Lt. Lawrence Taylor,
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Speaker 1: Dancing with the Stars, huge NFL celebrity. When that little
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Speaker 1: girl walked out of his hotel room, she was beaten
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Speaker 1: not by him, but by her pimp to make her
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Speaker 1: go have sex with LT so that is not required
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Speaker 1: under the law because the child cannot consent to sex
18:31
Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace, my question to you is
18:36
Speaker 1: I anticipate the defense making a big deal out of
18:40
Speaker 1: the fact that this child at the time fourteen, didn't
18:44
Speaker 1: call police, wasn't bruised, wasn't beaten, didn't run from the
18:50
Speaker 1: house screaming, didn't have torn clothes. I guarantee you that's
18:54
Speaker 1: going to be insinuated. It's going to slip into the
18:57
Speaker 1: defense like a snake. Essica and I agree, Nancy. However,
19:03
Speaker 1: you got it right. Children can't consent, And another key
19:09
Speaker 1: component to this is grooming. This child was groomed. It
19:13
Speaker 1: didn't just happen the first day they metal stud he
19:16
Speaker 1: dropped his pants and you know, masturbation occurred. No, it
19:19
Speaker 1: was a series of boundary violations in which they did
19:24
Speaker 1: nice things for the girl, took her on trips, they
19:27
Speaker 1: usually give gifts, start to build a relationship. It's kind
19:31
Speaker 1: of a slippery slope where then victims all of a
19:33
Speaker 1: sudden one day find themselves in a place where they
19:37
Speaker 1: freeze in fear because they're like wait, which just happened.
19:40
Speaker 1: How did I just be his penis for the first time?
19:43
Speaker 1: She was fourteen and said she saw a penis for
19:46
Speaker 1: the first time and froze in fear. Now that's downs
19:52
Speaker 1: like consent to you. No, And we know that the
19:54
Speaker 1: props or the defense is going to argue, oh, well,
19:57
Speaker 1: because she didn't fight, she didn't you know, run away,
20:01
Speaker 1: she stayed there, she must have consented her compliance. No,
20:06
Speaker 1: not true. And what we know is that eighty percent
20:09
Speaker 1: of victims, eighty percent of my clients do exactly that
20:13
Speaker 1: they freed in fear. That is how victims respond to trauma.
20:18
Speaker 1: And so that doesn't mean she consented. She agreed even
20:22
Speaker 1: if she participated, that's what she felt like she had
20:25
Speaker 1: to do to survive the situation. So I don't think
20:30
Speaker 1: that that in any way, shape or form means that
20:33
Speaker 1: she is any way responsible for what happens. The grown
20:35
Speaker 1: ups are responsible, the predators are responsible. Jes Lain Maxwell
20:39
Speaker 1: is responsible. Let me give you an example of what
20:41
Speaker 1: Jessica Price is talking about. When victims phrase, I tell
20:45
Speaker 1: the story once, I'll tell it again. The other day,
20:48
Speaker 1: the twins and I were walking our pound puppy, fat Boy,
20:52
Speaker 1: and even though he's this big. He thinks he is
20:58
Speaker 1: a Rottweiler or a Saint Bernard, so when we take
21:01
Speaker 1: him for a walk, he tries to pick a fight
21:03
Speaker 1: with every other dog that we pass. Well, he picked
21:08
Speaker 1: a fight with two Rodwellers, and I don't know how
21:13
Speaker 1: he did it, but he lunged and got out of
21:17
Speaker 1: his leash. We changed, by the way, after that, he
21:20
Speaker 1: had one of these leashes. Now he wears a vest,
21:22
Speaker 1: so that young man is not going to be able
21:25
Speaker 1: to get out of the leash again. Anyway, he went
21:27
Speaker 1: straight between the two Rodwellers and started a fight with them. Well,
21:32
Speaker 1: I ran over there, my son ran behind me, and
21:36
Speaker 1: we got the dog back. Nobody was hurt. I turned
21:40
Speaker 1: around and my daughter Lucy was just standing there. I said,
21:45
Speaker 1: you did not help me try to get the dog, Lucy,
21:48
Speaker 1: and she said, Mom, I froze. I was so scared.
21:52
Speaker 1: I froze. And you know what, she was standing in
21:55
Speaker 1: the same exact exact spot. She sure was. She froze.
22:02
Speaker 1: And I am just imagining this little girl freezing at
22:06
Speaker 1: the time, wanting the money, her family is going bankrupt,
22:10
Speaker 1: with the dad dying in leukemia, wanting the money, wanting
22:13
Speaker 1: the new clothes, or whatever it is the money would
22:16
Speaker 1: buy that all the other girls had at school. I
22:18
Speaker 1: want to take a listen to our cut twenty one.
22:22
Speaker 1: This is Mola Leni with CBS News. Or you could
22:26
Speaker 1: hear the discomfort in her voices. She testified the size
22:29
Speaker 1: and the deep breaths before answering questions, at times getting
22:32
Speaker 1: emotional and often sounding deflated, especially when she was recalling
22:36
Speaker 1: the more graphic details. The defense will continue their cross
22:40
Speaker 1: examination of Jane. Well, let's talk about the cross examination,
22:45
Speaker 1: but first take a listen to our cut fourteen my
22:50
Speaker 1: longtime friend, Shep Smith at CNBC the alleged victim using
22:55
Speaker 1: the pseudonym Jane in court. She's accusing Jeffrey Epstein's one
22:59
Speaker 1: time girlfriend of grooming her, sexually abusing her, and forcing
23:03
Speaker 1: her to engage in sex acts with Epstein. But in
23:06
Speaker 1: cross examination, Maxwell's lawyers pressed her to recall exact dates
23:10
Speaker 1: and facts from decades ago. Jane had said at one
23:14
Speaker 1: point in her testimony that Epstein flew her to New
23:17
Speaker 1: York on his private jet to see The Lion King
23:20
Speaker 1: on Broadway in nineteen ninety four. Maxwell's lawyer questioned her
23:25
Speaker 1: on how she could have done that when The Lion
23:27
Speaker 1: King didn't debut until nineteen ninety seven. Jane testified she'd
23:32
Speaker 1: been incorrect in her timeline. Oh wow, they scored a point,
23:35
Speaker 1: didn't they, Doctor Theresa gil Hey, gotcha. The Lion King
23:40
Speaker 1: didn't start till ninety seven, and you said ninety four.
23:43
Speaker 1: Who cares. I'm more concerned about her seeing Epstein's penis
23:47
Speaker 1: for the first time first time when she's fourteen years old,
23:50
Speaker 1: than when she saw The Lion King. But you know
23:54
Speaker 1: that's what happens to victims on the stand, doctor gill, Well,
23:58
Speaker 1: I think what's interesting is that when I think that
24:05
Speaker 1: Elaine and Edistein were kind of masterful because what they
24:09
Speaker 1: did was during the abuse phase, they would actually talk
24:13
Speaker 1: to her about all the things that they could give her. So,
24:18
Speaker 1: what do you want to do in your career? What
24:20
Speaker 1: are your dreams? We can help you at that. We
24:24
Speaker 1: know people. Here is money for your mother who needs
24:28
Speaker 1: money and is desperate so she can take care of
24:31
Speaker 1: the family. So they mixed the the sexual exploitation with
24:37
Speaker 1: the promise of having the things that you want and
24:40
Speaker 1: being able to financially take care of your mom. So
24:43
Speaker 1: of course she's going to be confused of course that's
24:46
Speaker 1: going to be mixed messages and she's going to freeze
24:49
Speaker 1: and not know what to do. And they were just
24:54
Speaker 1: masterful at what they did. Doctor Yale, You've just given
24:58
Speaker 1: me a very horrible flash to a case that I tried.
25:02
Speaker 1: And the victim was a nine year old little boy
25:08
Speaker 1: and he was very learning disabled. As a matter of fact,
25:13
Speaker 1: I had this happened a couple of times with children
25:16
Speaker 1: on the stand. He put his head down and I
25:19
Speaker 1: had to go up and try to not tell I
25:22
Speaker 1: can't tell him what to say, but you know, take
25:25
Speaker 1: his hand and try to coerce cajole him into continuing
25:29
Speaker 1: his testimony. But nine years old, and his mom worked
25:36
Speaker 1: single mom, and as I told you, learning disabled, doctor Gill.
25:42
Speaker 1: And one thing he loved he could play video games.
25:47
Speaker 1: I don't mean like the kind my son plays where
25:50
Speaker 1: he sits as his what he desktop and plays games
25:55
Speaker 1: and his little friends are on the cell phone. They're
25:57
Speaker 1: all playing the same game. You would go to an arcade,
26:01
Speaker 1: like at the mall or something, and you'd put in
26:03
Speaker 1: a quarter and you'd play until you lost. Well, that's
26:08
Speaker 1: something that he could do and he understood and he
26:11
Speaker 1: loved playing it. So his mom would let him go. Well,
26:16
Speaker 1: one day she found a ten dollar bill folded up
26:19
Speaker 1: in his front pocket, a crisp ten dollar bill. Well,
26:26
Speaker 1: she had to find out where it came from. And
26:28
Speaker 1: here's the rest of the story. A grown man. Many
26:33
Speaker 1: people thought he was a very attractive I, of course,
26:35
Speaker 1: did not find him the least bit handsome. Great job,
26:41
Speaker 1: college degree, wife, family, the works. Of course, he was
26:47
Speaker 1: divorced and living alone. But he would get roles of
26:53
Speaker 1: quarters and give them to this little boy who could
26:58
Speaker 1: barely speak, and then would take him back to his
27:02
Speaker 1: home which was near the arcade. And when that home
27:07
Speaker 1: was searched pursuit to warrant by the bed was child porn,
27:12
Speaker 1: half full container, a vasoline, and all sorts of sex paraphernalia.
27:19
Speaker 1: I had this boy examined. This child had been raped
27:27
Speaker 1: so many times. Well, okay, I'm not going to go
27:30
Speaker 1: into it, but let me just say it was apparent
27:34
Speaker 1: immediately upon examination that this child was a rape victim.
27:44
Speaker 1: And you're talking that was for a roll of quarters.
27:49
Speaker 1: This child that couldn't even talk had been being anally
27:52
Speaker 1: raped for who knows how many months for a roll
27:55
Speaker 1: of quarters. And here you're taking a girl whether she's
27:58
Speaker 1: fourteen or fifteen, to fly on a private jet to
28:03
Speaker 1: see what was that she saw the lion king cat.
28:07
Speaker 1: Excited my children were when they got to see Wicked
28:11
Speaker 1: on Broadway. It was like they were They still talk
28:15
Speaker 1: about it. I just thank he also co signed for
28:20
Speaker 1: an apartment for the mother and her and the brothers
28:24
Speaker 1: to have a place in Manhattan. So he was giving
28:28
Speaker 1: a lot, not only to this little girl, and getting
28:32
Speaker 1: a lot crime stories with Nancy Grace. Take a listen
28:53
Speaker 1: to our thirteen. This is Aaron Oldris Chef ABC this morning.
28:57
Speaker 1: The first accuser to testify in the Chris Mindal sex
29:00
Speaker 1: trafficking case against Gillenne Maxwell, former girlfriend of convicted sex
29:04
Speaker 1: offender Jeffrey Epstein, will be back on the stand. Defense
29:08
Speaker 1: attorney's continuing cross examination of the woman known only by
29:11
Speaker 1: the pseudonym Jane Tuesday. Jane telling the jury she was
29:15
Speaker 1: fourteen when she had her first sexual encounter with Epstein,
29:19
Speaker 1: describing in graphic detail the explicit moments with him that
29:23
Speaker 1: left her frozen in fear and to our cut fifteen
29:27
Speaker 1: Chef Smith CNBC. The lawyer also tried to suggest Jane
29:31
Speaker 1: was unreliable and might be telling her story for money.
29:35
Speaker 1: She pounced on the fact that the alleged victim acts
29:37
Speaker 1: and soap operas, asking whether she's accustomed to memorizing lines,
29:42
Speaker 1: able to cry on command, and seeks drama. The lawyer
29:45
Speaker 1: also questioned why Jane didn't come forward with all the
29:48
Speaker 1: details of her story much earlier, but Jane later testified
29:53
Speaker 1: I was sitting in a room full of strangers and
29:55
Speaker 1: telling them the most shameful, deepest secrets I had been
29:58
Speaker 1: carrying around with me everywhere. It was too difficult, too difficult, emotionally,
30:02
Speaker 1: too difficult on every level. Bran and s joining us
30:06
Speaker 1: from Fox Knees, tell me about the cross examine of
30:10
Speaker 1: cross examination of Jane, Well, just as you heard from
30:12
Speaker 1: Chef's reporting there, the really one of the harder parts
30:17
Speaker 1: was when they were asking her about her acting jobs.
30:19
Speaker 1: This is somebody who's been acting for over twenty two
30:22
Speaker 1: twenty two years and soap operas and alike, in a
30:25
Speaker 1: pretty successful career. And the attorney goes, you know, you
30:28
Speaker 1: were a cancer patient, a car crash victim, you played
30:31
Speaker 1: a prostitute even and Jane says, well, that was not
30:34
Speaker 1: my favorite role. As to say, you know, why are
30:37
Speaker 1: you bringing that that roll up, and she did say
30:41
Speaker 1: because ultimately she was then pressed as to why she
30:43
Speaker 1: took too long, and again Jane said because it was
30:46
Speaker 1: too difficult. It was too difficult, emotionally, too difficult on
30:48
Speaker 1: every level. And during this cross examination, you know, they
30:52
Speaker 1: really pounced on the fact that she had spoken the
30:54
Speaker 1: FBI in twenty nineteen and in twenty twenty, and during
30:57
Speaker 1: that cross examination she had not told she told the
31:00
Speaker 1: FBI that her memory was a little bit fondy as
31:02
Speaker 1: to whether or not Galan Maxwell was actually in the
31:05
Speaker 1: room when Epstein molested her. And they also recounted the
31:08
Speaker 1: fact that she wasn't sure if Maxwell had ever touched her,
31:11
Speaker 1: And of course that is different than what her testimony
31:13
Speaker 1: is now, which is that Maxwell was there most of
31:15
Speaker 1: the time, and that Maxwell had had touched her on
31:18
Speaker 1: multiple occasions, including an orgies and on her breasts. So
31:22
Speaker 1: this was really at the heart of what I think
31:25
Speaker 1: the defense was going to continue to do to each
31:28
Speaker 1: and every one of these accusers that come up. We
31:30
Speaker 1: still have three more left trying to poke holes, particularly
31:34
Speaker 1: on the issue of memory, as in as if you
31:37
Speaker 1: know you do not have any evidence in terms of
31:40
Speaker 1: documentary evidence, to Corrobory. What you're saying, your memory is
31:45
Speaker 1: more than twenty years in the past, you were a child,
31:48
Speaker 1: and how can we rely on that, especially when there
31:51
Speaker 1: are these inconsistencies over the last few years. It's it's
31:54
Speaker 1: very clear that this is what they're going to continue
31:56
Speaker 1: to do. And you know, I don't know if it'll
31:59
Speaker 1: work on the Jerry. I think, Nancy, you've seen this
32:01
Speaker 1: a lot more than I have as to whether or
32:03
Speaker 1: not this will work. It's obviously a big gamble in
32:05
Speaker 1: their part. Wow, the way you were saying that, Brian
32:08
Speaker 1: felt like I was right there in the courtroom. Well,
32:12
Speaker 1: this is when the state needs corroboration. As I said earlier,
32:17
Speaker 1: Is it required under the law? Nope, it's not required
32:20
Speaker 1: under the law. But will it help solidify this case
32:24
Speaker 1: for the jury? And that's why we need this pilot
32:30
Speaker 1: that piloted the captained a private plane for Epstein where
32:36
Speaker 1: he would fly these young girls all over the world.
32:40
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut eighteen. This is Mike Sacks,
32:45
Speaker 1: Fox five, New York. Earlier in the day, Epstein's longtime
32:48
Speaker 1: private pilot gave the jury detailed descriptions of Maxwell's and
32:51
Speaker 1: Epstein's various homes, as well as Epstein's three planes he
32:53
Speaker 1: owned from nineteen ninety four to two thousand and four,
32:56
Speaker 1: the time period the government says Maxwell trafficked and abused
32:59
Speaker 1: for different underage girls in each of those locations, But
33:02
Speaker 1: the pilot also said he never saw any female he
33:04
Speaker 1: thought was under the age of twenty on a plane
33:06
Speaker 1: without a parent, instead describing the fourteen year old Jane
33:09
Speaker 1: as a quote mature woman with piercing powder blue eyes. Okay,
33:14
Speaker 1: what does that mean? He thought that this witness who's
33:18
Speaker 1: on the stand right now, Jane was a grown woman.
33:22
Speaker 1: Explained that to me, if you don't mind, Brian, if
33:26
Speaker 1: he was very familiar with Epstein's accuser, Virginia Jufrey or
33:30
Speaker 1: Virginia Roberts, who's pursuing Jeffrey who was suing Gland Maxwell
33:35
Speaker 1: in the civil case, but when asked about Jane, he
33:38
Speaker 1: was only that there was a familiarity with Jane, but
33:41
Speaker 1: that he couldn't pinpoint her particularly. You know. He essentially
33:46
Speaker 1: said that he recalled seeing Jane coming into the cockpit
33:50
Speaker 1: with Jeffrey Epstein, but that he couldn't guarantee that he
33:53
Speaker 1: transported her somewhere, you know, he says that he can
33:56
Speaker 1: remember places people like President Clinton, but he can't remember
34:00
Speaker 1: or the passenger necessarily, you know, in that kind of specificity.
34:05
Speaker 1: So he also said that he never saw any sexual
34:08
Speaker 1: acts on the airplane, but he flying the airplane, right.
34:13
Speaker 1: He said that sometimes he would go down into the
34:14
Speaker 1: airplane and he never every time he left the cockpit,
34:17
Speaker 1: you know, he never saw anything. But he did say that, yeah,
34:20
Speaker 1: we did fly a lot of people, and you know,
34:23
Speaker 1: ultimately he confirmed that Galen Maxwell was somebody who was
34:27
Speaker 1: his number two right hand woman, and that there were
34:32
Speaker 1: people on these flights. But in terms of being the
34:35
Speaker 1: smoking gun, in terms of saying, you know, I saw
34:37
Speaker 1: Jane and she was in fact underage and was traveling this,
34:40
Speaker 1: he didn't necessarily offer that. What he was able to
34:43
Speaker 1: offer was, yes, Jane was somebody who was in our world.
34:47
Speaker 1: I'd noticed her. I know that this was somebody that
34:50
Speaker 1: knew Maxwell and Epstein. I did fly people sometimes they
34:53
Speaker 1: were underage, but they were with parents when I understood it.
34:57
Speaker 1: So at least there was the corroboration that these flights exist,
35:00
Speaker 1: did that there was a relationship, But in terms of
35:02
Speaker 1: him having witnessed anything that would cross the line. He
35:04
Speaker 1: wasn't able to offer that. But you know what to you,
35:08
Speaker 1: Jessica Pribe, you're a veteran trial lawyer, and I'll circle
35:11
Speaker 1: back with our detective Charles de shamp. We don't need
35:15
Speaker 1: him to identify her the victim or say he observed
35:19
Speaker 1: them having sex. We need him to verify that he
35:22
Speaker 1: flew that private plane with Epstein. I don't care about
35:25
Speaker 1: Trump and Clinton. I'm not on their case today talking
35:28
Speaker 1: about was he transporting girls from one place to the next.
35:32
Speaker 1: Everybody wants to talk about Trump and Clinton. You know,
35:35
Speaker 1: I notice all the Republicans talk about Clinton and all
35:37
Speaker 1: the Democrats talk about Trump being on the plane. Don't care.
35:42
Speaker 1: I care about these girls. What in the hay was
35:46
Speaker 1: Epstein doing flying these young girls around without their parents. So,
35:54
Speaker 1: Jessica Pride, the pilot did what we wanted him to do.
35:59
Speaker 1: He described at Stein's planes, and he described flying girls
36:04
Speaker 1: who didn't know if they were under age or not,
36:07
Speaker 1: and he remembered victim one. That's exactly right, because the
36:11
Speaker 1: charges that Maxwell is being charged with are for sex
36:14
Speaker 1: trafficking and transporting you know, women across state lines for
36:19
Speaker 1: the purpose of, you know, having for them to be
36:22
Speaker 1: molested by Epstein. So now that he places Jane in
36:27
Speaker 1: the plane, you've got it. You've got what you need.
36:31
Speaker 1: The prosecutor did a good job, and the pilot served
36:34
Speaker 1: his purpose. You know, earlier they keep talking about, oh,
36:38
Speaker 1: this is about the victims coming forward and they're financially motivated,
36:43
Speaker 1: they're trying to get money, that this is why they're testifying. No,
36:47
Speaker 1: Jane already got money from the victims compensation fund and
36:51
Speaker 1: people really need to read the fine print. The fine
36:54
Speaker 1: print says, if you take money from victims compensation funds,
36:59
Speaker 1: you can't get money from anywhere else, not a single dollar.
37:02
Speaker 1: You have to dismiss the cases against Displaying Maxwell, all
37:07
Speaker 1: civil cases against her from the victims who took money
37:10
Speaker 1: from the fund, had to drop them, had to dismiss them.
37:14
Speaker 1: So even it's shocking to me that Epstein really wanted
37:18
Speaker 1: to protect his rich friends. He wanted to still protect
37:22
Speaker 1: Displaying by hey, take my money, but then you can't
37:25
Speaker 1: go after anyone else, And that is crazy to me.
37:30
Speaker 1: So she has no financial motive right now. And I
37:32
Speaker 1: can tell you that from the thousands of clients I've represented,
37:36
Speaker 1: it's not about the money. No amount of money is
37:40
Speaker 1: worth being sexually abused. She will live with a lifetime
37:44
Speaker 1: of trauma and the medical build And another thing is
37:48
Speaker 1: she only got five million dollars. I mean five million
37:50
Speaker 1: dollars is a lot of money. But out of one
37:52
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five million that they put out, they
37:55
Speaker 1: did have two hundred and twenty five people apply for
37:58
Speaker 1: that money. And the valuators said, we think she's got
38:02
Speaker 1: a case and we're going to give her money. And
38:06
Speaker 1: I think that's very relevant. I think the prosecution, since
38:09
Speaker 1: the defense brought it up on cross exam, should hammer it,
38:13
Speaker 1: hammer it. I would choose that I've spit it out
38:18
Speaker 1: right on the defense table and didn't Brian Ennis just
38:23
Speaker 1: say that it came out that Gallaine Maxwell is at
38:27
Speaker 1: was ep seins a number two, number two, his right
38:31
Speaker 1: hand person. So Charles the shamp, there you have it.
38:34
Speaker 1: She was the one booking those planes. Now, when you
38:37
Speaker 1: take your private plane, you got to say who the
38:41
Speaker 1: passengers are, so some identification. You want to tell me
38:45
Speaker 1: she's his number two and she didn't know who was
38:48
Speaker 1: on that plane. Be asked to Shamp, well, I can
38:52
Speaker 1: tell you this, and I have talked to you about
38:55
Speaker 1: Texas law and how we charge parties here when we
38:59
Speaker 1: have these time the trafficking type cases and individuals that
39:02
Speaker 1: we can through evidence which is what you got, their
39:04
Speaker 1: testimony and other other things that you can forms of
39:08
Speaker 1: evidence you could use. If you can prove that those
39:10
Speaker 1: other parties you know, participated knew about what was going
39:13
Speaker 1: on with it, then they're they're capable of being charged
39:16
Speaker 1: along with it with just with everyone else. And we
39:19
Speaker 1: do agree, shan't agree. I couldn't agree more. As a
39:23
Speaker 1: matter of fact, I'm so mad right now I can
39:25
Speaker 1: chew a nail and a half. We wait as justice
39:30
Speaker 1: some thoughts. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,