Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Ultra Overlander of the Year: Raptor R vs. Bronco Raptor vs. Rubicon 392 vs. AT4x AEV vs. TRX and more

Transcript

Ultra Overlander of the Year: Raptor R vs. Bronco Raptor vs. Rubicon 392 vs. AT4x AEV vs. TRX and more · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I am
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: your host, Scott Brady, and I'm joined today by my
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: co host Matt Scott. Now we have a very fun
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: conversation about a new category of vehicles that we like
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: to call ultra overlanders, or maybe think of it kind
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: of like the Grand Tour of overlanding. Now, it's really
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: important to preface before we even start that it's important
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: not to take any of this too seriously. This conversation
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: is really meant to be a fun dialogue about all
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: of these very highly capable, fast, oftentimes luxurious vehicles that
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: are coming into the overland space. And the reason why
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: we tested them and the reason why we're covering them
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: is twofold. First of all, they have actually become very
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: popular for overland travel. We're seeing them used more and
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: more by our readership. And secondly, these vehicles oftentimes introduce
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: new technologlogies that's important for us to be able to
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: become familiar with, so that way, when they're available on
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: more standard vehicles, we already have a baseline of understanding
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: of how the performance should work. So think of these
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: long travel vehicles oftentimes are supercharged hybrid drive trains. They've
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: got much larger tires oftentimes than typical stock vehicle would
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: have fitted. So this is a very fun conversation about
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: the Ford F one fifty Raptor R, the Ford Bronco Raptor.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: We also talk about the GMC AT four x AEV
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: fifteen hundred in both the gas and diesel variant. We
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: also talk about the Ram TRX, which is in its
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: in its last days of production. We also include in
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: the conversation the GEP Wrangler Rubicon three ninety two with
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: that five hundred plus hours barer V eight and then
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: we have some minor dialogue around the Toyota Tundra TRD Pro,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: the Golandavgen four by four squared and also the classic
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Ram power Wagon that's available in a three quarter ton.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: So these are all of the ultra overlanders. So these
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: are a little bit extra, a little bit extreme. Don't
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: take the conversation too seriously. Now again, with all of
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: these principles of overlanding, all of these main gear reviews,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: main field tests that we do on the podcast, these
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: all come from our work at Overland Journal. So the
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: reason why it's called the Overland Journal podcast is this
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: is all of our learnings that we create through the
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: production of our premium print publication. So one of the
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: best ways that you can support our podcast is to
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: subscribe to the magazine and you can find out more
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: information on overland journal dot com. So please enjoy my
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: conversation about ultra Overlanders with Matt Scott.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: So we're talking about ultra overlanders.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: We are, which we could not have an ultra Overlander
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: podcast without Matt Scott present because you are actually the
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: one that came up with grand touring overland Yeah. Yeah,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: and then I adapted to include the term ultra overlander
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: probably a better term. No, I think that they're both great,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Like ultra overlander is the word and grand touring overlanding
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: is the definition.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: Maybe there's just become almost a segment of not almost,
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: there is now a bona fide segment of vehicles that
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: are incredibly applicable to overlanding that are just a little extra,
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: a little ultra, a little a little more than you know,
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: dare I say they're kind of luxury overlanders in a way,
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: And you almost have to kind of you almost have
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: to separate things in a way because there's the vehicles
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: that you actually choose for you know, extended global travel,
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: and then there's the vehicles that could do it with
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: a little bit of pinaz and we're today talking about the.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Latter well, and also overlanding in North America just really
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: isn't that difficult. There's a lot of infrastructure and with
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: starlink now and garment in reach and any other number
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: of things. So there are going to be people who
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: are going to want to do things a little different,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: or maybe they like a little bit more comfort or
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: speed or just general like smiles per mile.
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: Or or it's easier for some people to write the
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: check or have the bigger finance payment than it is
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: to go through the process of upgrading and modifying. Yeah,
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: you know, I think that it's kind of maybe important
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: to say, like, you know, okay, well, why are we
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: talking about a raptor are Why are we going to
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: be talking about the three ninety two Wrangler, the Bronco
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: are a v prospect or exol like all of these things,
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: because so many people end up modifying their core overland
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: vehicles which were not you know, maybe yeah a regular
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: Tundra or F two fifty f one fifty something. They
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: all kind of end up modifying them so much that
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: they become these kind of ultra overlander vehicles.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: That's a really good point, Matt, and I hadn't. I
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: didn't include that in the article, and I need to
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: go back in and revise it, because that's probably one
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: of the strongest arguments is that a lot of times
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: people will take an entry level model and they'll put
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: long travel suspension, much longer tires, and all of that
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: reduces payload to begin with, so then they end up
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: probably pretty close, but then they don't have a warranty,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: and a lot of times they don't work as well
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: because it doesn't have all that factory engineering.
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: The TRD pro Tundra, for example, is kind of a
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: good option. Like you you know now they have decent,
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: decent shocks, decent suspension, don't travel a little track, all that.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Kind of stuff.
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: You know, if you if you do the aftermarket route
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: to it, you're ending up with more time joints, You're
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: ending up with shocks that have to be rebuilt a
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: lot more. You not not always, but you're you're just
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: ended up with with more performance based components that are
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: maybe more appable to like a race truck or a
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: Baja truck. Where when we kind of come back a
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: little bit towards that kind of the overlanding principles of
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: kind of not deviating too much from stock. A lot
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: of these vehicles are that, you know, uh uh kind
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: of factory skunk works. You're already modified and already done machine.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: And warranteed, and you can finance the whole thing into
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: one payment. Yeah, So I think I think if the
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: plan is to buy a stock vehicle and then modify
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: it heavily with all of this aftermarket stuff, it may
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: be worth considering one of these ultra models because it
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: may actually get to their cheaper at the end of
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: the day because you're not you're not taking off a
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: set of wheels, you're not removing a suspension that you've
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: already paid for. There's there is some economy that I
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: think come which is hard. It's hard to say economy
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: around these trucks because I think the cheapest one in
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: this lineup is eighty eight thousand dollars.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: So it's crazy how expensive vehicles have become. They really
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: are a buddy mine. Will Marshall was in town and
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: he's getting a new Raptor in the stick around. It's
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: like ninety. Yeah, just like a kind of like a
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: base Wrap, not a base raptor, you know.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Well equipped.
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: But I bought that same truck, you know, or the
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: equivalent in twenty seventeen for like sixty four.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know it is.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: And some of the very first Raptors that came out,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: you could they could be purchased from the dealer because
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: they weren't really known yet in the high thirties.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: So it's really and those trucks are still in the thirties.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they're super because there's a you know, they've
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: really for it has proven that the concept works so
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: much so that everybody else is chasing them.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: That everybody's chasing them.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: So like for me, the one really important caveat is
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: that I'm not suggesting that these ultra Overlanders are the
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: right choice for very many people, but they are going
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: to be a great choice for some people. And they
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: are just fun enough. They're so enjoyable to drive, because
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: I was a huge critic of these things up until
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: I got a chance to finally drive all of them,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: starting with driving your TRX, which was a wonderful vehicle. Yeah,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: and I remember when my attitude towards these vehicles started
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: to change was when we're on Expedition seven. We're coming
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: into Ya. We'd just done all this stuff in these
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: land cruisers, and the very first overland vehicle that I
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: saw in Ushwaya was a Ford Raptor with a four
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: wheel camper in the bed and Utah plates.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: So kind of.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Started the same place we did. Now we went a
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: little bit different route to get there, but they drove
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: of all and we were able to talk to them.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: They drove all the way from Utah to Ushwaya in
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: this forward Raptor and I asked if anything had gone
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: wrong with the truck. They're like nothing, and they didn't
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: do anything to modify it. It was an unmodified Raptor
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: with a four wheel camper in the back. Maybe they
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: had done something to the springs.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: And the way you can do some diver springs, yeah
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: or whatever, but that was it there.
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: They're just there is an argument like, if you are
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: the type of person that that really derives joy from driving,
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: a lot of these vehicles may maybe up your.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Alley because they're gonna worth checking out.
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they're gonna they're gonna more conform to that idea
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: of keeping it stock because it actually goes through durability
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: testing and reliability testing, and there's probably you know, I'm
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: not saying that the aftermarket doesn't have proper engineers, but
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of you know, McMaster Carheim joints and
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: suspension I see, right, true.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: I use that as a as kind of a joke.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: But anyway, so what inspired you to buy the t Rex?
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: It seemed like it was a little bit of a
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: like an imprompted purchase, like you hadn't really it had.
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: Just kind of became available. I guess because they were
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: really hard to get. They were really hard to get.
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: I guess this was like probably twenty twenty one. Yeah,
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: a dealership that I had had bought a few vehicles
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: from had one become available.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Jeff Simpson reached out to Jeff Simpson.
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: It wasn't horribly oversticker at the time, because everything was
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: selling first considerably oversticker.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: At the time.
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: And I was at the press launch for it, and
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: I was just like really really impressed with it. I
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: had had a Raptor prior to it, so and talk
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: about how was your raptor?
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Was it like one of the at the time. Was
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: there only one Raptor model or was there several.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: At the time.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: There was one Raptort. This was like the second gen Raptor.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: I guess was yours V eight powered or no, it
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: was the three five turbis Swin Turbot.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: It was.
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: It was great, honestly, Like I went from an F
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: two fifty to the Raptor to the Gladiator to a
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: Stock twenty five hundred to the TRX to the p XL.
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: So I went through like all of these like super
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: trucky things, like back to back to back.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: You're well qualified to this conversation. Yeah, I'm the exact opposite.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: I've driven them all extensively, but I've never spent my
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: own money on one.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and and and and on all of them. I
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: did not receive any of course, fexture assistance or anything. So,
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: you know, the TRX was one of the best cars
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: I've owned that I could just like hop in and
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: drive that. The fifteen hundred Ram chassis is really good.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: Throw a V eight in there and active suspension like
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: the Bilstein Blackhawk Nurse or whatever. It was just for
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: going down dirt roads, for kind of having fun.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: In the dunes, even the highway, even the Highway like
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: some twisties, Like it was just kind of it was just.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: Like really fun. The annoying thing with the TRX was
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: the fuel economy.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it just there.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: It was a seven hundred horsepower supercharged V eight.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like it.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: And that's the case for all of these vehicles in
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: this test. The the Bronco gets a little bit higher
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: on the gasmulage range and then you can get the
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: GMC at four x AEV with the diesel, and then
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: of course that's like literally three times better fuel economy
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: than the TRX.
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: Three times that It's crazy, you know. The TRX just
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: I lent it to Chris Walker, who's a very very
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: well qualified four wheel drive trainer, professional driver. I was
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: like for a Chase vehicle for the Rebel Rally. I
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: was in my Earth Roamer and I'm not like Chris
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: did not abuse the car in any way, but Chris
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: like used it as it was designed day after day
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: after day for like fourteen days, I want to say,
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: in Glamos he was getting something like two point eight.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Miles to the gallon.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah you know, so, I mean that's comm it can
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: get comically bad fuel economy.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: That was my experience with it when I was driving it,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: like in pure smiles per mile mode it was seven
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: point six seven point eight on average.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I didn't spend as as much time
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: in the Raptor R as you have drove around a
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: little bit. Yeah, I liked the TRX more than the Raptor.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: Are the vehicle I actually like more than both of them.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: As the standard Raptor, I think that you put these
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: big heavy V eights with all of the ancillary cooling
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: and superchargers and all this stuff that goes in into them,
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: and they just become a little too heavy on the
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: front end. The Raptor has a little bit more suspension travel.
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: I think that the dampening is actually better on the.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Raptor at speed, is my experience.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the TRX would bottom out, yes, you know, softly,
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: a bit softly sprung.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: But it's also it's also like the hero vehicle for
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: the average owner, so somebody who's not going to do
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: anything too stupid. It's really really good, Like it's consistently
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: comfortable in all conditions, even low speed, whereas I found
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: that the Raptor R only really got good when things
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: started to get illegal on the street or the dirt.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: So even even like the second gen one that I had,
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: second gen Raptor, the things that that vehicle was capable of,
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: you know, it was was really impressive, like to the
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: point of like.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Do you really do you really need it?
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: Like like for public they're really they're really biased towards
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: the street like and I say that because the amount
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: of horsepower and the amount of speed that you have,
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: you just don't have the suspension travel to really really
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: back it up. I mean you look at in Baja
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: and you look at the amount of vehicles that have
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: seven hundred horse power, yeah, and how much suspension travel
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: they have.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: Well, you know the first thing somebody does when they
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: get in them is they just peddle it in the
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: metal and you know, you can it can bite really
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: really quick if you don't know what you're doing. Like
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: I I remember kind of in my Raptor. Is the
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: amount of people that you would see totally ball those
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: things up. Oh yeah, And you know they all thought
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: by putting some time joints here, this or that or
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: or whatever, they're going to make it a race truck.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but they forgot like the whole training part of
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: becoming a race car driver. There's the yeah, and that's
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: the I think that is the one thing that is
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: important is if you look at the vehicle kind of
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: like you would you know, if you've got a prospector XL,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: like you've got all of this headroom of capacity and durability.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: If you look at something like a trx or as
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: a raptor of like, I'm going to pretty much drive
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: like how I normally drove, but now it's going to
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: be so much more comfortable. And if something does go wrong,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: like I miss a corner or I hit a g
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: out that's like way deeper than you expected, or a
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: wash out, the vehicle is going to be fine. But
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: if you start trying to call them ac crae, the
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: thing the problem is is that there's some grandparents come
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: in the other direction. HM. So anytime we test these vehicles,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: we have to shut the whole yeah, you know, dirt
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: track down to and have marshals and radios and just
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: to even start to test it.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: The rally car analogy is really good with all with
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: everything that almost everything that we're talking about.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Except the three ninety two. Yeah, maybe except for that.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: But it's the only time in all of my testing
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: of vehicles that I have actually had had the thing
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: go just squirrely enough where I actually out loud yelled
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: WHOA Nelly. I have never used those words together in
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: my entire life, except for with the three ninety two.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: I thought the three ninety two is nice, but I love.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: I loved it it made It's the definitely the one
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: that made me smile and just feel like an absolute
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: teenager the most out of all of them. You can
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: push the button to make it even louder.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: I'm actually really excited for the motor that's going to
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: be coming to the I mean it's not going to
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: be called the three ninety two, but the Hot Wrangler next,
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: which is going to be that twin turbot inline yeah
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: six because for street I'm all about torque.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: Like the problem with the three ninety two to me
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: is where it's powerband really was. You had to kind
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: of be on it.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, and it was cool, but like
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know, like the big lumpy V eight thing
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: is maybe not my thing.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: And you made that point when we talked about it
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: the last time of you know, it's pretty dated.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: It's a pretty dated.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Motor, and I wasn't really aware of that. I think
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: the biggest challenge with the Wrangler is that it's a
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: rock crawler. Yeah, with five hundred plus horsepower, So it's
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: it just the engine starts right in checks that the
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: chassis has zero percent chance.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Of ever catching.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so a limited suspension travel, solid axle.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: But as kind of like again going back to this
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: idea is we're not really talkalking about these vehicles and
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: the application of a rally car.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: And we're not taking they are all really really fun
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: and amazing at doing that, Like yeah, and you can't
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: take any of them too serious, and you can't even
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: take this conversation seriously those that are listening, Like we're
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: we're not making any kind of overland advice in this conversation.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: We're just saying that there are these vehicles out there
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: that are the equivalent of a of a McLaren in scale.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Like if you were to look at a four whel
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: drive and you look at a Raptor R, it is
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: the equivalent of a McLaren supercar, but a lot of
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: people can actually afford it, Yeah, Whereas there's like five
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: dudes that can afford the supercar, and there's maybe five
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: hundred dudes that can.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Before the Raptor.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: Are we go back to that the folks who drove
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: down to Ushuaia and the Raptor. Yeah, like that would
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: be a just a great choice, like particularly loily now
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: that the Raptor can get up to fifteen hundred pounds
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: of payload. Yeah, boy, that would be a you know
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: that with just a modest four wheel camper or like
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: a wet like an at camper would be really cool
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: that get in that and just go. You would have
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: fun in it. Yeah, you know, let's talk.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: About and they also never had trouble with because even
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: though it says premium fuel ninety one, they just put
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: whatever the best fuel they could find the whole way
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: down and it never threw a code.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Never.
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: Eco boost can learn so you can run eighty seven
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: in it when you're just like on the highway and
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: you don't need the power and it will actually adjust
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: to the ninety one. It's pretty cool. But you could
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: you could have a lot of fun with the vehicle
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: like this, you know, like let's say that the Raptor,
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: let's say the Bronco. Let's let's make sure that you
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: know the GMC Sierra fifteen hundred at four xa B
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: blah blah thing that's in there long name, Like, all
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: of these vehicles are going to be fun. They're all
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: going to excel in the areas that you kind of
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: want an Overlander to excel, which is, you know, spending
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: a lot of time on dirt roads. Like oftentimes you're
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: not doing Baja whoops with a camper. I mean you
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: really just shouldn't be. You know, the moment you convert
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: a car to to carrying stuff for a living, you know,
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: like a microwave in there or whatever, just don't do it,
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: even just like as simple as like a camp stove,
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: like that camp stove, like gravity still is there.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: They would all just really excel in you know, long
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: dirt roads, which is a lot of what we realistically do.
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: And they're going to be reliable and they're not going
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: to squeak. And that's the thing that maybe drives me
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: crazy about a lot of aftermarket suspension, particularly on independent
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: front suspension vehicles. They say they do these time joints
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: or these like uniball and all this stuff, and I
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: just like.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: Skip the upper control arms. God Like, like I would
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: not lift a car to not have to deal with that.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: It is like, now there's some that are coming out
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: that have a like a ball joint.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: Toyota actually has an oe M.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: There you go, that's perfect upper control arm that realigns
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: your front end and that kind of stuff makes a
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: ton of sense. But but the ones that give you that,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: I think some of them are an extra half an
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: inch of travel or an extra thing.
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: No, all it is is it's just moving it into
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: a different direction. Right, Like you're your CV only has
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: so much, so you're you're you're giving up any down
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: travel that you have to in the hopes of trying
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: to get what more up travel or something.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: No, it's more down travel. But the bigger issue too
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: is that these CV axles, especially if you're running factory axles,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: they are designed to operate within a specific range. So like,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: for example, full droop full lock with a with a
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: CV front axle is when it's at its weakest. So
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: the more that that's why they have limited travel ranges,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: because they're trying to preserve the CV under like full
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: drive low rock crawling situations, are trying to preserve those CVS.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: There's a reason why they have limited amount of travel
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: because full droop in a with a CV and full lock,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: there's just very little material left.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: That's I just know that any time I go out
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: with somebody that has like a tundra or it's a
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: coma that has done long travel or has done you know,
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: just mild lifts, like they all bring like axles with them,
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: and that's just not very practical. So that's where vehicles
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: like this can be kind of yes, for sure, because
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: a Tierdy you know whatever, Tierny off road tundra and
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: then you go and there's like this idea, oh well,
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: I'm going to be upgraded and getting something better, Like
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you're getting something better these.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Days, probably not. And they're really really good right out
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: of the factory.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: And the amount of people again that can actually drive
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: them to figure out that n the degree difference.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, are you actually going to be there? I think
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: it's a lot. I think it's still just a lot
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: of signaling.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: It's like it's like I've got this extra fancy whatever
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: makes me cooler.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Well let's go down the list. So let's start off
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: with the Bronco Raptor, which.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: Ultra overlanders for people that own white sunglasses.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: There you go, or flat bills maybe, yeah, some pit
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: vipers maybe, And I think.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: That that's I mean, it does.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: We're not trying to sound mean because there's so many
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: there's so many amazing things about the Bronco Raptor, but
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: it's just these fenders that make it look like such
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: an afterthought from like a It doesn't seem like a
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: craftsman approach. It doesn't seem like a thoughtful approach.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: Towards the day, I recognize that the chassis is in
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: its class right, phenomenal.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Really good, and the thirty sevens are like, it's like
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: insane how capable it is.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just don't like it.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you've not been a fan of the Bronco. And
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: whereas I would put my own money towards like a
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: standard wide track or WildTrack or whatever, Bronco, what I
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: found with the Bronco Raptor was that it is so
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: wide that then it becomes a liability in technical terrain.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: So then you're like, well you would use it in
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: more open terrain, Well, then why not have a Raptor
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: F one fifty that has the wheelbase and everything else
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: to make it more stable and appropriate for high speed?
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: So it kind of end up ends up having an
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: incredible spec sheet, but not a lot of excellence in
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: any one area. It is very impressive, like if you
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: have some room on the trail and it's technical, the
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: thing is an absolute mountain goat.
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: Well, it's very much that kind of You know, what
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: Ford did with the Raptor was to bring Baja race
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: trucks to the everyman, and this is meant to kind
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: of bring the Ultra four to every man. Yeah, it's true,
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: but I just.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: You know, yeah, you're not a fan.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: And the other thing I found was that all these
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: other vehicles are pretty fast, the Diesel GMC excluded. It's
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: it's it is fast, but like compared to these other ones,
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: it's not fast. But the I was disappointed in the
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: power of the Bronco Raptor, like you want. It even
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: says that the that the zero to sixty is four
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: point seven or four point eight or something, and I
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: could not get it to do even close to that
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: in any condition. So I'm not sure where they where
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: they got that number from, but or maybe it's a
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: different they had a different size package, tire package or something,
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: but like it felt pretty slow compared to these other monsters.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: I struggle to pay g Wagon money for a Ford Bronco.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because they're in it's ninety grand yeah yeah plus
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: plus eight a M and all.
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: All the stuff, and I just don't think that it's
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: a quality vehicle. I think it's a really fun vehicle.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: Like if you're just like you know, you know, heck, yeah,
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: I want to go mess up some public lands and
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: see I'm made like you know, cyclists, I can run
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: over on the forest service roads. I think the Bronco
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: Raptor R is like phenomenal for that or Bronco R.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: It's not a Raptor. It's a raptor, yeah, you know,
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: Bronco Raptor, but not the R. Yeah.
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: Sure, craftsmanship issues, yeah, And that's the way I feel
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: about those vendors.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: It's like somebody's just like, oh, shoot, this thing is
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: so wide. Now we've got to put some fenders on
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: it and it has to go on sale next week.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: So they're like three D printed like they had their
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: teenager three D print some like yeah like Grand Grand
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Theft autos.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: As like a as like a car or whatever.
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: I think that the Bronco Raptor is probably super fun.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: It is super fun. It's super fun to drive, but
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: it is not in the same outcome as the rest
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: of these vehicles, So there are things to like it,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Like if you never had driven any of these other
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: cars and you hopped in a Bronco Raptor, you would
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: your mind would be blown. But that means you just
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: haven't driven one of these other cars because there's so
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: much better.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it's just like it's a UTV car.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, that's that's a good point, but three times
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: more than a u TV.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah all right, So then let's talk about the F
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: one fifty Raptor R, which is on the list. You're
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: a fan of the regular Raptor, but the Raptor Are
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: in my mind, was the highest performing little extra. Oh yeah,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: thirty seven's makes a big difference. So in my experience
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: with some of these really big, you know, long travel
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: trucks like that, I've been a little unimpressed with its
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: technical terrain capabilities. But this thing did our most challenging
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: track like it probably would have done it in tool
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: drive at thirty yep, but I didn't do that.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: But like it. It had no issues, whereas.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Like the the UH eighty four XAV because it has
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: a thirty three inch tall tire, so a four inch
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: smaller tire, two inches less ground clearance, and also a
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: less lift built baked into it. It was really dragging
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: through these obstacles and the Raptor R didn't touch anything.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: It was literally effortless. And then at the extreme, there's
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: nothing on this list that's even close. The t Rex
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: blows through the travel too quickly, it's too softly sprung.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: It has similar travel numbers, but the way that it's
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: tuned is very different, and it feels like a heavier truck,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: and it probably is that I don't know, but the
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: Raptor are with the thirty sevens and seven hundred horsepower
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: and that suspension at the limits, it's the closest that
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: I have felt since I've been in Baja race trucks,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: So it is it is as close to a factory
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: ready race vehicle that I've ever seen.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's very much kind of like the you know,
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: in sports cars, you have the GT three series, So
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: Portia does a GT three, McLaren does a GT three
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: Like it's it's very much like a you know, production
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: special kind of vehicle, except there's no like race series for.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: It almost too bad that there isn't, because that would
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: be neat. It'd be again to.
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: What we were saying earlier is that you couldn't put
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: that much horsepower in a race car with that little travel. Sure,
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: you know, be asking for it. I mean, I mean,
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: like a trophy truck's not that much more. Yeah, and
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: you know you're twice the suspension travel and.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: They usually run thirty nine's so even bigger tires, and
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: they're also lighter weight as well.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: They can be.
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: But again as this kind of like very special occasion
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: over land truck, like it'll do it all.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it really did. In fact, you and
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: I did a trip together. We went out to what lake?
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Did? We go to Alamo Lake?
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I and I towed a Patriot trailer behind
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: the Raptor R, which I think is probably the only
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: trailer that I can think of that would survive behind
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: a Raptor R, because I did push it, and I
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: was shocked with how well the Patriot held up to
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: raptor R speeds.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Towed easily, you know. I And then also I slowed
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: down and I just enjoyed the day and put the
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: windows down, and the vehicle was incredibly comfort and capable.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: You just didn't feel like that there's anything that you
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: would come across in the desert that would even make
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: the truck blink.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I remember going back to one of
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: the press launches I did in the Raptor and talking
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: to the engineers. I'm like, what's the dumbest thing you
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: see people do to the Raptor in the aftermarket? And
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: they like two guys simultaneously leveling kits and they're like, do.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: We don't get it?
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: Like, you know, we've tuned this suspension, we have all
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: this position specific dampening and involving. Like you just where
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: I'm going with that is you just you don't have
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: to do those things with these vehicles anymore.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: Like they're just so capable.
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, like yeah, it might look a little
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: cooler lifted or something, but there's a there's a compromise.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: It's on thirty seven's with fourteen inches of suspension, trying
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: to do it any more. Just let it go, man,
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: let it go.
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and I just enjoy it, have fun with it.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: The Raptor is isn't always will be a great choice
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: you know, I mean that the F one fifty is
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: I mean, is it still the most produced I believe,
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: So I believe it's the most produced vehicle in the world.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know it is, or certainly in the US. Yeah.
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: And this is the most refined version of the most
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: produced car made. You can never discount the F one
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: fifty like.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: And it had real payload. So like if you want
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: to go to home depot, the one that I had
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: showed fifteen hundred pounds on.
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: Which were so significant because when I had mine, I
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: believe it dipped into the high eight hundreds or low
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: nine hundreds.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Maybe it was fourteen forty. It was exactly what it
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: showed on the door. Yeah, the one that it's significant.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: So it's it's enough to have a go fast camper
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: or an at you know, summit or whatever you want
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: to put on the back of it with some gear,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: some extra fuel because you're probably going to need it.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: It did get better get gasmologe than the TRX by
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: three or four miles per gallon.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: It did not feel.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: As fast as the TRX, but that could have just
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: been REX hit harder. It did, and it could be
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: like noise and suspension movement. It's that impression tuning like, yeah,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: that impression, impression of speed and power. The only downside
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: I would say on the on the raptor R is
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: that a lot of people are spending one hundred and
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars to get this truck. It feels like
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: a run of the mill f one fifty. I don't
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: know what to be a lariat or whatever it's.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: It's yeah, it's.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: Very pedestrian interior. They've done some things to try to
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: make it look fancier, but it feels like that they
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: tried to add some materials where they could. So that's
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: the only place where you feel it fall quite a
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: bit short of the TRX.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: And I think it's it's worth mentioning with a lot
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: of these things. And I guess this isn't this isn't
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: financial advice, but we are in one of the only
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: times in recent history where pickup trucks have at a
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: minimum sold for sticker.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, so.
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: When when you end up in an environment where you're
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: paying sticker plus money for something, you just have to
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: realize that you're likely never going to get that money back.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: Right, Despite how how bitcoined out you feel like you are.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the direction that things are going is back to
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: you know, American pickup trucks being five, ten, fifteen, twenty
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: percent below MSRP at all times. We just haven't you know,
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: this kind of rolling recession or whatever hasn't quite hit.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: We had the chip shortages, and then we had the
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: labor shortages, and then we had the strikes well, and
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: so it was.
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: Really affected by that more so than other manufacturers.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: They really targeted them.
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so you do have to, I think, be a
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: little careful on the Raptor are.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: So the Raptor are actually one our editor choice for
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: the article that's going to be printed in Overland Journal.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: It'll have some additional information and photographs.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: It's the one that I would of everything on that list.
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: If it was you can have the keys to anything, yeah,
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: and it's yours for keepses, but you.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: Have to drive it for a year. It would be
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: a Raptor R.
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, my money would just be on the list, would
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: be a regular raptor.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's good.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: That's good perspective though, Yeah, because you gain a lot
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: of what they've learned in their these programs like the
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: Raptor R.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: I've had so many fast cars, like really really fast stuff,
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: and it feels really great the first couple of times
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: to launch it or this or that, and then you
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: realize that, like the model Y golf cart next to
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: you is faster.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: And it just like it changes your perspective.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: Like I think evs have really kind of backed off
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: the horsepower carrying.
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: Some marketing thing initially for sure, and they probably should
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: back off a little bit because you know, you're just
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: and increase your range.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, all right.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: So the next one on the list is the GMC
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Sierra fifteen hundred at four x AEV. So this is
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: their most off road capable of all of their full
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: size trucks there are. There is a Chevrolet equivalent, which
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: is called ZR two Bison in their fifteen hundred full size.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: The GMC, in my mind, has a little bit more
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: refined interior. It feels more ultra, which is why it
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: is on this list. It is the vehicle that on
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: the list that I would buy with my own money,
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: because I've just been so impressed with the diesel at
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: four that we've got in our project fleet. But the
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: thing that I like about this vehicle is that it
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: really is a significant improvement in overall refinement and quality.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: The t Rex does feel a little more premium on
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: the inside because they really paid attention to materials. But
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: if you were to kind of just spend some time
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: in the GMC, it really feels like you're in a
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: premium European sedan. Like it's really well done. So I
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: think day to day living in this thing is going
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: to be really easy on you.
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: I also like the GMC as far as an actual
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: like as far as an actual overlanders.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, for sure. It's the most overlandy of the bunch for.
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: His best fuel economy, and it's also not too wide.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: No, here's the thing that I'm same with any of
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: the other ones. The TRX, the Raptor, and the Bronco
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: are Bronco or.
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: White Sunglasses car. They're really wide, and they're hard to park.
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: They're hard to park in in Prisky, like and we
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: live in the sticks. Yeah, you take them to a
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: major city, or you take them, you know, to a
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: foreign city, or you're going to actually drive it somewhere
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: like I would not want to be in those vehicles
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: in a lot of situations.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're big, they're.
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: Big where the GMC is no wider than a standard
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: you know, pickup truck in its class.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're the TRX is approaching earth Roamer width.
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent, like the earth Roamer is not.
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: The earth Rower is slightly than narrower than it.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: Duly, Yeah, and so are all of those. That's right.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: That's right. It's actually kind of interesting.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Whereas the GMC, they they wanted to improve the capability
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: with every metric. So by having the diesel, you have range,
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: and there's you can actually change the tank to an
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: aftermarket tank because it's diesel, so it's not EPA controlled.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Well it's EPA controlled, but it's EPA allowed to put
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: in a larger tank, so you can end up with
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: a seven hundred mile range. You can get low twenties
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: to mid twenties miles per gallon if you keep your
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: foot out of it. It has the multimat suspension system,
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: which I'm a big fan of because it works well
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: kind of at all speeds. And then it has a
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: rear locker, which most of these vehicles do, and a
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: front locker which is only available in the Wrangler and
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: the Bronco, so that two other trucks don't have front lockers,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: probably because they would explode if you put seven hundred
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: horsepower to an independent front suspension.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: That's a lock.
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that they have some. They have a
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: form of a traction modified differential in both of them.
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: They used to like a LSD or a tor center.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: So they used to and that that went away with
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: this version of the F one fifty wrappole. Oh yeah,
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: so they know now it's trash control. So it's fully
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: computer controlled, probably to manage the torque so they aren't blowing.
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: And honestly, on I had the tors in front and
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: you could feel it, yeah, like the car would kind
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: of push and grab on kind of quick quick turns.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: That makes sense. I didn't really like and they got
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: rid of that.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: So I think it's all just kind of managed with
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: traction control now, which it did a great job. If
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: you could ever get the thing to spin like like
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: the raptor Are is a monster off road.
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: Think of the one attraction of the tires. Yeah, and
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: to the width of the tires.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: And the travel you can't get those tires off the
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: ground enough for them for stuff to start spinning. It's
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: like it's really really it's really, it's really good. Uh
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: So the GMC, you have that advantage of front and
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: rear lockers, multimatic standard with diesel torque, diesel fuel economy
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: where and also all the AEV components. So you have,
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: you know, AEV steel front bumper, AEV steel rear bumper,
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: You've got improved skid plates. There's a lot of things
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: that come with the vehicle that up contents it for overlanding.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: The thing that starts to become a constraint is the payload.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: So this truck comes in right, it around one thousand
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: pounds of payload m So it's a full sized truck.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: So if you and I wanted to go out for
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: the day and carry two motorcycles and the two of us,
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: we'd be over payload. Yeah, so you have we have
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: to think of it within those constraints. I don't think
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: that the truck is actually being stressed at all at
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: a let's say you put fifteen hundred pounds in it.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: This is not financial advice, is not payload advice. But
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying that this is not payload advice. I
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: don't think that that truck is going to care if
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: there's fifteen hundred pounds in it for a multitude of reasons,
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: but it's not rated for it. So that is something
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: to consider as you're probably not going to be able
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: to put in the big camper that you want to
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: put in the back of it. So then you've got
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: to move up to that twenty five hundred, yeah, which
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: has a twenty six hundred pound payload.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: The twenty five hundred it's nice, but the fifteen hundred
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: it's a little smaller. It is more manageable to drive.
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: Like, let's not forget like all I'm going to exclude
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: the three ninety two, but all the other vehicles on
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: this list, and a lot of elements of overlanding would
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: just suck to drive, you know, let's not forget, like
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: one digit percentage of your driving on a trip to
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: South America or to Africa or whatever is going to
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: be a technical terrain.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The rest of it is going to be on
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: dirt roads or nice highways. Yeah. And these are all
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: going to be really working or like normal life like.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the GMC is great for all that stuff. Yeah,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: it really is. All right, So now let's we did
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: talk about the TRX a little bit in the beginning,
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: So I don't know that we need to touch on
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: it other than just some of the cons that I found.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: And the main con that I found is you can
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: really tell the difference in the tire diameter between the
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: tr Rex and the Raptor R. If that t Rex
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: had thirty sevens, it would it would be a much
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: closer run between the two. I was pretty impressed by
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: the difference that thirty seven's made on a full size,
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: and I also really noticed it with a GMC too,
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: because that even has a slightly smaller tire than the
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: t Rex. So you you do notice that if there's
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: a way that you can bolt thirty seven evans from
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: the factory on these trucks, the factories need to be
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: thinking about how do they do that because it makes
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: such a difference.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: It's a good tire size. Yeah, I did you keep
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: your tire diameter stock?
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: I kept my tr X completely stock. Yeah, you put
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: a lightner rack in the back, with a lightner rack
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: on the back, and yeah, I don't think I touched it.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: It didn't it didn't need it. Maybe you did some
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: lights on it. Maybe no, No, don't drive at night.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: That's a good idea, that's a good idea.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have.
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: I have like fancy lights on on my Earth Rummer,
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: and I'm just like, hmm, well that could just be better
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: cooling it. That's complexity. Yeah, I don't use them.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Uh. TRX is a great vehicle. I don't think. Why
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: did you sell it.
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: Because Jackson at at Ellis, Ram Dodge g Chrysler in
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: Glendale had a uh Matt Scott package Prospector XL show up.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: Okay, got it?
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so so we can. Yeah, well we'll talk about
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: the Prospector in a few minutes. So that's why you
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: sold it. It was fine because because Jesus I was
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: hood rich at the time. Well and you also you
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: also sang high praises of the t Rex the whole
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: time you owned it.
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like we it was just we had a really
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: early one and we took it to car Week in
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: Carmel and Monterey because that's kind of another world that
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: I have fun in. And to drive a pickup truck
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: that got that many looks because they weren't really out yet.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was that pop and blue too, and it.
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: Was the Hydro blue. But it was great because we
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: were able to go from Prescott to Carmel in a
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: really easy drive, like it was a great grand touring vehicle,
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: super comfortable that it wasn't too long. It was like
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: the silent on the inside, super quiet.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. As a road going vehicle, it was like.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: And the fact that it has so much capability on
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: the dirt, I just found it really nice just for
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: a day out in the dirt because it had so
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: much reserve capability and so much comfort that I actually
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: never found myself airing down and I'm a big proponent
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: of airing down tires, and you just didn't need to.
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: It was so comfortable. It was a great car. Fuel
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: economy would be my main gripe. And I think that
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: the suspension is good for how you realistically use it.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: That's what I found.
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: But I think that the Raptor has better suspension. Oh yeah,
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: and it's noticeable. I drove them back to back and
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: it's noticeable. How power is great for the street when
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: you're off road. It's like an adventure bike.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: We have these two hundred horse power adventure bikes and
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: the moment you put them into like the off road mode,
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: they have.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: Like seventy yeah, seventy to one hundred yeah.
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: You just don't need it, like it's fun for you know,
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: doing donuts and stuff in the dunes.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: But I'll take the travel like again, like I I
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: would just take a regular raptor. Yeah.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: All right, So then now let's talk about the three
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: ninety two Wrangler. It's definitely and I mentioned this a
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: little bit earlier, but it's the one that I just
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: felt so hooning in, Like I just I wanted to
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: race everything. I don't know why. Maybe it was just
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: that week. I was just like feeling extra Scottie salty
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: or whatever. But I kept it the entire time in
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: full exhaust mode. And the only thing that would have
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: been better is that the windows were tinted so that
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: no one could recognize me being such an idiot, an
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: idiot for the entire week.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: There there one.
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: I just think that the JL as a chassis is
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: really well sorted. Yeah, I think it's really well developed.
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: You know, it is a it is an evolution of
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: the JK, which was pretty dang good to start with. Yeah,
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: I find this one hard to fall.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like I just really couldn't. I just thought it
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: was awesome.
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: It would be the most Again, like the three ninety
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: two isn't really any wider than a regular jeep.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: You're not getting into.
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: The Bronco no Raptor territory where it's like really really
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: wide and you have like, you know, the body of
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: the Bronco is wider than the body of the Wrangler. Yes,
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: and then the Bronco Raptor has bigger fenders than the Wrangler.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: So the three ninety two is still capable on trails.
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: Oh we took Yeah, not that the Bronco isn't capable
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: on trails, that's I should say that a different way.
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: It's just it's a lot more manageable.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: If you were to go drive like the doozy Ersham
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: with the Bronco Raptor, you would have not you would
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: have none of the fenders at the other end of
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: it most likely. Yeah, whereas the Wrangler would be like
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: you get done with that trail and you take it
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: in for an oil change, you know, it's like it's
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: so it has so much capability, and it's also that
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: familiar capability. So Dave Hereton has talked about well not
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: only did he call the three ninety two peak jeep.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: So if there was ever anybody that could make a
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: declaration around a vehicle. It's Dave Heretin and he called
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: the three ninety two peak Jeep. So if this is
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: the peak of what we're going to see for overall,
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: kind of like rowdiness, fun V eight powered Wrangler V
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: eight powered Jeep. It's probably the last of it, and
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: it's also just extremely capable off road. It just works.
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: Threengler they did a twentieth anniversary edition and then they
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: had a Level two package which was basically like the
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: av JL three seventy pack, right, but it was available
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: through like the dealer, not an av dealer, a Jeep
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: dealer that is peak cheap. Like, I don't know, I
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: don't know if it'll get better than that.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean so ways, I'm sure it will. I
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: really like the four by E. There's lots of things
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: that I mean, Wrangler is just great. It's just a
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: great car.
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: Like I like the four by E, and that's the
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: one that I like to think that I would buy.
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: But if they were both sitting there at the same.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: Price, you know what, you'd take the three Nights two, Yeah,
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: I would.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: I mean for me, it would be the It would
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: be such a fun vehicle just to have yeah, you
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: know to loan to people when they come into the
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: town or what.
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: Are you just like if I have my av HEMI LJ. Yeah,
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: that'd be the one I'd probably have that.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just it is literally just fun, like any
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: of the cons that I would come up with, other
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: than just remember like it's not fast in the dirt,
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: Like do not drive it fast in the dirt. Remember
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: the Woeelly, it's like fucking fucking Bronco. Yeah, got a
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: little spice. The Wrangler has made a lot of improvements.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: We have the full floating rear axle. We have haloads
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: up to fifteen hundred pounds on some vehicles, not the
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: three ninety two too. There are still some downsides. If
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna I want to talk smack on the Raptor,
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: I got to be something balanced with the with the Wrangler.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: At this point, I would I would almost like them
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: to just be a hard top and not a convertible.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: I think that the internal rollcage just takes up too
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: much space, Like you have this external shell and then
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: you which is what you think the the volume of
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: the vehicle will be, and.
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: That's already small. And then if you're a bigger guy,
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: Like I kind of hit my head.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's good. It's a little it's a little
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: compact in there.
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: And then and then they do these like that, they
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: go that the angled rear roll bar drives me crazy.
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: It allows people to do that stupid fastback. Yeah, I've
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: never understood that top. It's like, then buy a two door,
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: like if you want less room.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: No, but but the point being is like it whenever
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: you're trying.
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: To do something in the interior of a Wrangler, that
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: modifying it to be a camper or putting accessories in it,
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: or putting a bag or luggage in it, there's always
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: a roller bar in the way, or there's a speaker.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: In the way it. Yeah, some of the audio packages
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: put put like a huge subwoofer in the back. Now.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's just even less space. So you kind
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: of got to go like a back.
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: I love the heritage that you can still take the
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: you know, the doors off and all of that. Like,
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: but if they made a model, like they've answered a
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: lot of our you know, hopes and prayers for overlanding
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: with the Wrangler, for me, the next one would just
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: be a dedicated hardtop model.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: Like they did with that recon many years ago.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then they eventually came out with the Recon package.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it's it's almost like I kind of
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: want like the soft top pack or I want yeah,
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: you know, like it's one of those things that maybe
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: could go away.
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: But then as I like, I love Jeeps and I
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: love the fact that they still do it. Yeah, you
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: got to give them a lot of credit for Ye're
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: trying to make a lot of different groups happy, because
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of people like, let's say in these coasts,
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: just buy a Jeep instead of a motorcycle and it's there.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: You know, they get ice cream with their wife in it,
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: or they.
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: It's the one the one sunny day. Yeah, you know,
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: and and and that's great, you know. And that's why
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: that power sunroof is really cool. Yeah, that power Closs
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: sunroof is actually very I was super skeptical of that
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: thing until I drove one, and I'm like, Okay, that's awesome. Yeah,
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: and I would have it open all the time because
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: it was super fun.
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the three ninety two is great.
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: It'll be interesting to see what happens next. You know,
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: they sell a quarter million wranglers a year. So they're
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: going to keep innovating because it's such important like ground
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: for them to hold with.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: This all this competition.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: So and fortunately they have they have Matt Scott to
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: keep the Bronco at.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: Bay on sales. I think we need to get an
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: another one out here and just have you take a
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: look at it again. Maybe it's improved.
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: Maybe Okay, So now we've got some bonus trucks to
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: talk through, which we included in the article. So they're
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: they're not an an also ram, that's not what we're
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: trying to say. They just fall either they either way
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: overshoot the mark or they way undershoot the or theyjust
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: undershoot the mark. You're right, it's just a just undershoot.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: So we'll start off by talking with the Mercedes Golan
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: Devogen four by four squared, which really, if you were
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: to have to to describe Ultra Overlander without any words,
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: you could probably show that picture. It's it's like it's
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: the The four by four squared is the official vehicle
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: of people who are stealing food from the UN World
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: Food Program.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: Like no, like it is.
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: It is distasteful, it is amazing, it is horrible. It
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: is phenomenal. It is everything at once, the Grand dichotomy.
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: It's hard to take seriously.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: That's I think that's the challenge for me is that
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: the g Wagon when it was first designed, and even
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: in many iterations today, it's still a very serious car.
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: But the four by four squared is very difficult to
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: take seriously because of the motor that they put in
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: it and kind of the opulence and the signaling that
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: happens around it.
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: It has all of the offer a chops that a
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: regular G Wagon has. Yeah, and then even a little
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: more because and then you have portal axles, maybe you
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: have thirty sevens, and you have like some pretty serious
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: damping technology that I just they're just kind of too much.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: It's a lot. And for Matt Scott to say that's too.
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: Much, like you would feel a little uncomfortable. I would
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: driving that through Malawi. Yeah, yeah, you absolute. It's it's
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: it's like it's like there's wearing like Ultra Overlander, like
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: the Raptor are or like a Raptor. It's like wearing
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: a Rolex explore. Ye, it's pretty understated, but it's still
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: a Rolex. But then the four by four squared is
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: like busting out your.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: Like PEGANI whatever, you know, yeah, hublo something.
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: It's a who blow right like it's it's very like Miami,
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: Like it's a Ultra Overlander for Miami.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like no, I think so. And and the challenge
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: is that it doesn't really make sense to use for
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: travel for a lot of reasons. I think you just
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: put yourself at a lot of risk. It's also very
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: one off and unique, so it's going to be difficult
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: to ever get it serviced or have a prayer of
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: getting something repaired if something goes wrong.
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: So I mean kind of like my raptor are where
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: the raptor is the better version of the Raptor are
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: the regular g is really cool?
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, you can. You could, You could.
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: Package them in such a way that they were a
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: little you know, less conspicuous. Yeah, you can get them
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: in ten, you can get them in white, you get
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: them in black, and you really don't need it. I
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: think the other challenge of the four by four square
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: it has is it quote unquote only has thirty sevens
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: and that's a lot of complexity and ground clearance and
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: whatever to put up with something that like a tire
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: size that a Wrangler can nearly fit stock.
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: I mean we're talking like.
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: A like an inch and a half two witch lift
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: from the factory and on a JL you're fitting thirty sevens.
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: It's it's conspicuous. Yeah, and it's very ultra. So if
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: you wanted the Ultra Ultra.
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: But if you have a house and Aspen and you
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: want to, you know, drive to Crested Butte for lunch
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: and then drive back and go really fast, one call
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: me too.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: That this is the perfect vehicle for that.
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: You know, it is probably the most ultra overlander. Yeah,
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: it's the ultra Ultra.
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: All right, So then let's talk about the TRD pro
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: because we we really wanted to try to include something
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: from Toyota in this list, but Toyota tends to be
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: very conservative.
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: They're not really They're not like an extra company. No,
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: they even Lexus. It's really that extra, no, and I
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: think in the most authentic way. Whereas whereas the g
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: Wagon comes across as like the extreme form of of
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: like wealth signaling, which is usually means that you don't
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: have money. But because the wealthy people that I know
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: don't drive those, they drive Prospectors. So yeah, but I
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: think that the opposite of that is the stuff that
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: Toyota makes. These are honest, authentic vehicles with an incredible
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: amount of heritage engineering, reliability and durability, and the TRD
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: PRO or if you want to look at it as
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: the TRD pro Sequoia, any of that kind of iteration
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: of the vehicles. We haven't had a chance to drive
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: the new Tacoma yet, although that I'm sure that'll happen soon.
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: But the TRD PRO of Tundra, it's got five hundred
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: plus horsepower, it's got this hybrid drivetrain in it with electrication,
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: so it's not a plug in hybrid, but it's hybrid,
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: and it's got thirty threes. You can do a factory
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: lift and put thirty five's on it and retain your warranty.
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So it's it's like the most ultra of the Toyotas.
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: It's like, I want something quality and good, yeah, but
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: something that's not too extra, Like it's it's not fineboyant enough, No,
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: not at all to.
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: Make the list, but it's like it's like right there. Yeah,
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: and you've actually he brought up Tundra a couple of times. Yeah, yourself,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: I like the Tundra.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know, sharing a chassis architecture with you know,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: the three hundred series land Cruiser. I think it's really cool.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: You know, I almost bought one. I know, you were
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: looking at them hard and then it was like fifteen
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: grand over and then you realize a while, I'm paying
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: ninety grand for a Tundra, Like you know.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: It's okay, you bought the right truck. Yeah, you know,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: you bought up seven three there you go. Yeah, So
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: the Tundra is nice. And the fact that it's got
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: about an inch and a half lift over stock with
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: a TRD PRO. It's got good suspension on it, it's
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: got rear loocking differential thirty threes.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and while it's maybe the most pedestrian thing on
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: the list, it's still not like it's still a really
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: great vehicle, absolutely very dependable. It's going to retain its value.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: I mean, raptors retain their value really well, but Tundras
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: art in another level.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And someone would maybe argue.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: And also a great it would be a great vehicle
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: to overland around the world in because you wouldn't be
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: searching out ultra locil for diesel. You'd have reliability, decent
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: fuel economy, yeah for sure, although although that is one
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: criticism I do hear of the Tundra is that it's
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: fallen quite a bit short of expectations. Oh interesting with
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: the hybrid configuration around fuel economy. Performance is great, yeah,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: because the horsepower numbers are up there, but yeah, economy
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: is not so great.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: So well, but the one back to the exactly all right.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: So then the last one on the list, Now, this
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: is what I had, was the power Wagon because if
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: you think about it, fifteen years ago, there would have
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: been one Ultra Overlander on the maybe two on the list.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: There would have been the g Wagon and the power Wagon, yep,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: because there just really wasn't anything else. That Paragon was
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: ahead of its time for sure a lot of ways.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: And it's I'm grateful that it's still available. Front rear lockers,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: front Swavebard disconnect. It's very ultra, you knows, a very
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: simple truck.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: You know, it's got the six four and it has
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: a three ninety two in it. It's the three ninety
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: two truck motor a little different. Yeah, it's it's having
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: owned like a Prospector XL and having owned a regular
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: twenty five hundred of the same year.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: It's weird.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: The power wagon is kind of the sweet spot, like
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: it's the one if you're gonna if you're gonna have
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: like one car, the power.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: Wagon would be pretty good. Yeah, you know that.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: The diesel trucks are great, you know, but the power
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: wagon has a better transmission in it, right, a lot
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: more dated, you know as the ZF eight hp trans
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: You know, the field economy is not terrible on the
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: power wagon. You get the winch, you get steel bumpers,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: you get get compared.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: To the others on this list to qualify that fuel
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: economy statement.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's not great. None of these are great,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: but the power wagon's good. And then you have now
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: this diesel equivalent called the Rebel, which we I don't
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: want to think that you get. You do not get
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: a front disconnecting sway bar or a front locker or
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 3: a front locker because squillions a pound feet of torque
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: it would just go. Yes, but that's also a great
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: choice if you can't get past not having a diesel.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: Yep, so you can build out a AV prospector on
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: the Rebel chassis twenty. Get you a rear locker, get
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: your photis.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: Of the of the non official menu that we've presented.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: That's what I would do, as it would be a
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: Rebel thirty five hundred. Actually this time, I wouldn't do
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: the twenty five hundred again. Do they have a Rebel
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: thirty five hundred?
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: I think so. Maybe I think it's just a package. Yeah, hopefully.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: If not, I don't know that I would just do it.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: I would do another PXL, but I am personally I
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: would wait for a new drive line because that drive
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: line is actually that truck is kind of ancient in
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: a lot of ways, you know, they kind of the
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: interior is nice on it, but the bones of the
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: twenty five hundred are a little long in the two.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: It definitely feels that way when you compare it to
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: the GMC twenty five hundred.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like Ford had a better transmission fifteen years ago
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: than Ram has right now. Yeah, you know, and everybody
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: is on ten speeds or at least eight gm like
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: a eleven. You know, they have a ten ten speed,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: you know, and then you still have the six speed
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: for the you know, the the diesel trucks, eight speed
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: for the power wagon, which is where the power wagon
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: kind of is nice.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: And the ride quality and the power wagons a lot better. Yeah,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: the than the full three quarter ton diesel or the
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: one ton.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: Well, you open the hood on it and you realize
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 3: that three ninety two is not that big of an engine,
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: and it sits way down in and way far back
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: where this the diesel engine is like like it's it's substantial,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: like that's it's.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: Got its own zipod. Yeah. So there's a lot going
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: on for that. And the power wagon comes with a
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: factory Winch.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I Warren Winch does does put in a camper,
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: and the power Wagon still like technically avoid the warranty.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: Oh that I'm not familiar with. Although it's a well
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: suited truck for like a very simple four wheel camper,
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: perfect for that. So the vehicle comes in and arounds
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: sixteen hundred pounds of payloads, so it's not terrible. Yeah,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: but remember it's a three quarter ton, but it's only
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: got sixteen hundred pounds of payloads, so it's this weird.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: That's a weird spector had.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's about sixteen hundred, but that's after all the range,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: after bumper, after all.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: Of the upfits. Right, So exactly.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: Anything else that we're missing on the list, I don't
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: think so. For those that are listening, if we've missed
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: your favorite Ultra Overlander, please let us know, or if
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: you've Ultra had your own truck and you want to
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: let us know what you did, Yeah, to make it
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: extra special. It would be easy to say, oh, we've
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: missed the Range Drover, but it's not.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: I mean kind of the Defender, the V eight Supercharged Defender.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: Which I like them all, but it is it did
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: not really kind of meet my expectation for this category,
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: which included some of that higher speed, a little bit
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: of that. Maybe you said it right with the Flamboyant's
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: like there, there's just something although like a Defender ninety
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: with a V eight is pretty ultra.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's pretty cool.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that would be another one to include, and
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: it would be a fun car to own, Yeah, it
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: would be.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: I I love the concept of the Defender.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a one thirty would be like something I would
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: totally consider. But there's a lot of fun vehicles out there,
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: and we wanted to have a podcast talking about fun
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: ultra kind of overlandy stuff and not take it too serious.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, not always spend the money on travel, yeah, not
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: on the vehicle. Have time and money. These are fun.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: Toys, they are, and we're not suggesting that anybody should
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: consider these for their overland travels, but it is it
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: might work for somebody.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: As for like nor for this new North American overlanding thing.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah perfect, yeah, exactly so cool. Well, thanks Matt, thank you,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: and we thank you all for listening, and we'll talk
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: to you next time.