Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #22: Nicole Farr Kramer (Calvin Univ) & Eric Kramer (formerly Wisconsin Lutheran College)

Transcript

#22: Nicole Farr Kramer (Calvin Univ) & Eric Kramer (formerly Wisconsin Lutheran College) · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

• 0:01
  Hey gang, what's going on? We've got episode 22.
• 0:03
  Wait a minute, That makes no sense.
• 0:05
  We're at past episode 250. Well, here's what happened.
• 0:08
  The Internet. It's a funny, trickle fickle
• 0:11
  thing. It took down Eric Kramer and
• 0:13
  Nicole Kramer's podcast from way back in May of 2020, and that's
• 0:18
  a travesty. Their story, their journey
• 0:20
  matters, so we're republishing it again here in 2024.
• 0:24
  The Internet can't stop us. I've added the new intro, the
• 0:26
  new outro, but we've got them captured in time back in 2020,
• 0:30
  so I hope you enjoy. Check it out and let's roll.
• 0:44
  Track and Field World Q&L tuned in to a humble servant, Mike
• 0:48
  Cunningham, for another extraordinary message for Guild
• 0:52
  athletics connections. We appreciate you, Nicole
• 0:58
  joining us, Eric. If he ever makes it, we'll be
• 1:01
  here as well on the Guild Athletics Connections podcast.
• 1:05
  As I mentioned in the intro, super excited to do kind of
• 1:08
  something interesting and different here in that we will
• 1:12
  be talking with Nicole Kramer and Eric Kramer who has joined
• 1:17
  us. He's official now as a married
• 1:20
  couple who are both track and field coaches.
• 1:24
  So really excited for you guys to join us today.
• 1:27
  Eric and Nicole, thank you so much for for being here and
• 1:29
  being willing to discuss this. Yeah.
• 1:33
  Thanks, Mike. We are excited to be here.
• 1:35
  That's going to be the fun part is a married couple talking over
• 1:39
  each other and this will be a lot of fun.
• 1:43
  So as we get started and we talk about kind of maybe how you guys
• 1:47
  met and things like that, but maybe we take a step back, why
• 1:50
  don't we do a quick bio review of how you got into coaching to
• 1:56
  begin with. So I'll let you guys decide who
• 1:59
  who's going to start here. I think Nicole should go first.
• 2:04
  Oh. Great answer.
• 2:06
  Well done. How sweet?
• 2:08
  Well done. Sure.
• 2:10
  Well, I have basically been coaching or in the coaching
• 2:18
  realm ever since college. I grew up loving sports and
• 2:25
  sorry, there's a little bit of an echo here.
• 2:26
  I'm trying. To yeah, you guys might have to
• 2:28
  separate for. I'll go in the other room.
• 2:30
  My my goal here today is to create 0 marital strife, but I'm
• 2:35
  already asking you guys to separate.
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  It is OK, yeah. So, OK, well, I will try to tune
• 2:46
  that out basically. I grew up, I was born and raised
• 2:51
  in Warrenville, IL. I went to Wheat Warrenville
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  South High School. Really.
• 2:55
  You're a tiger. I am one of tigers.
• 2:58
  One of the greatest high school track programs in this state.
• 3:01
  That's amazing. I didn't know that.
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  Yeah, yeah. So I played a lot of sports
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  growing up. Soccer, basketball, softball.
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  My mom was and still is a long distance runner, although she
• 3:18
  doesn't run quite as much anymore.
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  Definitely my biggest athletic influence is my mom and she's
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  run a dozen marathons when she was in her prime.
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  And yeah, so I always had her kind of as a role model and
• 3:32
  example and definitely my biggest fan even now.
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  Still so big shout out to her. But yeah, so I actually was a
• 3:44
  three sport athlete all four years of high school.
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  I played soccer my freshman year much to my high school coaches
• 3:54
  dismay. Shout out to Rob Harvey he is he
• 3:59
  is basically like my second dad. He's been a huge father figure
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  for me in my athletic and personal development for sure.
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  In a lot of different, different ways, like many high school
• 4:10
  coaches are. But yeah, so I ran cross
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  country, played basketball all four years and then did track
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  three of the four years outside of soccer my freshman year.
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  Once once he helped convert me from the dark side.
• 4:25
  Was soccer a? Is soccer a spring sport?
• 4:28
  For some reason I don't think it's fall.
• 4:30
  Yeah, for girls in Illinois, it it is a spring sport.
• 4:34
  OK, I was wondering. Wow, interesting.
• 4:37
  OK. Right.
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  So yeah, he he basically helped me get hooked.
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  Him in addition to all the teammates and fast friends I
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  made, you know, just being around the cross country
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  environment, I loved it. And so throughout my four years
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  decided more and more each year that running is really what I
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  wanted to focus on. You know, as much as I love
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  basketball and you know the team, you know competitive
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  aspects of of soccer and everything, just the people in
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  cross country and track as well as the influences that coaches
• 5:14
  had on me really drew me into those two sports.
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  So I'm assuming you were a mile or two Miller type.
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  Yeah, I was predominantly on our 4 by 8 as well as the mile
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  Typically that was my my combo 4 by 8 is early on in the track
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  and field schedule in Illinois and mile is the third to last
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  event. So it was a pretty natural
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  double I didn't do. I did a few 2 miles, but
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  nothing, nothing that I was too proud of.
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  I was a pretty classic mid distance runner.
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  I tell you, you speak volumes about the influence Rob had on
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  you and based on your schedule, you just said there as well you
• 5:55
  can tell what a what a really smart, thoughtful coach there.
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  My high school coach, I ran the half mile, the mile, the two
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  mile, the four by eight and the four by four at every meet,
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  every duel meet, everything. He we just ran, ran, ran, ran,
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  ran. You guys actually sounded like
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  you had a plan to not kill the athlete there.
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  That's that's pretty smart. Right.
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  Yeah, He. And it is also a very big team.
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  It's still a very. Big team.
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  So yeah just with that balance and and yeah with the experience
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  he brought in I know as a fairly I think he was a fairly new head
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  coach at at We Marvel S only a couple years in since then
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  obviously since that you know I I graduated in 2006.
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  So since that point I know his program has really taken off and
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  ironically we actually just had a zoom meeting with with a lot
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  of our a lot of my closest teammates from high school this
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  past week and Harvey. Harvey actually let it up and he
• 7:04
  reached out to us and was like, hey, let's all meet because no
• 7:07
  one's doing anything this, you know, or it's just such a
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  different phase of life that we're all in right now.
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  So that's cool. Great opportunity to meet up.
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  Yeah, 15 plus years later. Yeah, I've heard some stories
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  like that other like teams getting together.
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  It's it, It's really interesting.
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  It seems like we're taking social media to a different
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  stage of like these meetings now, not just being friends on
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  Facebook or following each other on Twitter, Like really engaging
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  on a more instantaneous one-on-one level with these type
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  of zoom reunions and such. Right.
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  Yeah, I agree. Everyone's just kind of craving
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  that social. Social interaction.
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  Even even our introverts are craving something at this point.
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  Yes, and I I actually am a self-proclaimed.
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  Introverter too so. I am even missing people and you
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  know, just the idea of like saying hi and having a face to
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  face conversation is something I've been definitely missing the
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  last few weeks. So let's Other than with Eric,
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  of course. There have been plenty of times
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  during this quarantine period that Nicole has said, hey, can
• 8:19
  you just go in the other room? And she doesn't say it, but I
• 8:22
  can tell in in the way she says it that it's a I'm kind of sick
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  of your presence. Can you leave me alone?
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  Yeah, you guys are getting like an accelerated newlywed year
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  'cause you're really spending time together.
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  Yeah. So Nicole, let's keep moving
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  forward. You got the opportunity to run
• 8:40
  in college? Yeah, I did.
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  I decided to go to Calvin College, which is now Calvin
• 8:48
  University, basically my senior year.
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  It's kind of funny. I took three overnight visits
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  within 10 days in April of my senior year.
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  So I was a little bit of a procrastinator in that sense and
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  still AM. Yeah, yeah.
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  But yeah. Calvin ended up being my top
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  choice. Just how genuine the people
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  were. Not taking away from anywhere
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  else that I visited. But it just it just.
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  Clicked. You know, as as a coach now, I
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  mean, you see that with recruiting all the time.
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  Like you have someone on campus and they're just really loving
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  the environment and loving, you know, can really envision
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  themselves being there for the next four years.
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  And that's that's what I saw at Calvin.
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  Not only did it have a phenomenal distance running
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  tradition, but coupled with it being a Christian atmosphere,
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  that's something that really stood out to me.
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  And I didn't have from a schooling perspective before
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  that, you know, being being in public schools my whole life and
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  then going to a private Christian college, that was a
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  big jump for me, kind of stepping out there and taking a
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  taking a leap. But it ended up being probably
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  the best, best decision I could have made.
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  Met some of the some of my best friends, you know, I had just, I
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  mean when we got married, four, at least no three of my
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  bridesmaids were from my team. In college.
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  So yeah, and and two others. Two others from my high school
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  team and and one that Chelsea, who is my really good friend
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  from Bowling Green when I was in grad school.
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  So when you were in at Calvin, when did coaching become the
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  thought process for a profession or or did it even at that point?
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  It did. I went into my college
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  experience thinking that I was going to be an exercise science
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  major, Spanish minor, and then basically didn't love science as
• 11:01
  much as I thought I would and decided to tweak that a little
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  bit and went into sport management and business
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  communications as a double major.
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  But really, I mean the the biggest impact on me wanting to
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  become a coach was my, especially a college coach, were
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  my college coaches and and teammates and just that whole
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  environment, that community, the whole mentality of running for
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  more than just yourself. That's a popular theme, of
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  course. But I think at Calvin, we truly
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  lived it out. And I had plenty of humbling
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  moments, especially my freshman year where I had to, you know,
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  swallow my pride and and see that, hey, that really is not
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  about me. This team is really, really
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  good. We're an extremely deep team.
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  All four years that I was there, our women's cross country team
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  was on the podium. Wow.
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  And yeah, so my freshman year we were third, five points away
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  from winning the national title. That was what I call muddy
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  nationals down at Voice of America Park in Ohio.
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  There's like a foot of mud on the ground.
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  And yeah, and the men's team actually won the national.
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  Title Holy cow. Yeah, yeah.
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  So I was just a spectator three of the four years for those
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  national meets. But my junior year, we were
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  runner up and I was our I was on the top seven that year.
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  I was basically our 6th or 7th runner almost by default.
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  Actually. I'd been an alternate and they
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  decided to rest. One of our top girls and I got
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  the opportunity to run at Regionals and then got the
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  opportunity to run at Nationals. So.
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  Well, I tell you that kind of crazy.
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  That says a lot. You know, as a coach, you know
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  this and as the coaches that are listening, when you give someone
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  an opportunity, well, they better take it and some don't
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  always take it. So it sounds like you were
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  offered the opportunity and actually took it as well?
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  Yeah, I mean it it was just an honor, honestly.
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  I mean, when I was running at Regionals my junior year, I mean
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  all the fans and my teammates that were on the sidelines.
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  It was just, you know, kind of a kind of like living in a dream,
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  you know, knowing that I'm representing the the top seven
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  of of what is Calvin. What is Calvin's mascot?
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  Are they The Crusaders? The Knights Knights.
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  Knights. Knights.
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  That's it? Yeah.
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  So where did you go after that dream like experience after
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  Calvin? Where did you Did you go go get
• 13:42
  grad work or did you go straight into coaching?
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  Yeah, so I went to grad school at Bowling Green in Ohio.
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  Yeah, and so kind of fun story there also.
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  Since I didn't, I I knew I was going to miss that team
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  environment so much and just that motivation to run every
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  day. I actually signed up for the
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  Chicago Marathon that next fall and then when I go.
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  Ahead. Was that gonna be your first
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  marathon? Yeah.
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  That's a good first one. Fast.
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  Yeah, yeah, good way to stay motivated.
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  And I'm not a marathoner in any sort of word, but you know,
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  coming from more of a mid distance and steeplechase
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  background, that was, you know, just something I knew I wanted
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  to do and cross off my bucket list.
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  So I signed up for that and also when I arrived on campus at
• 14:35
  Bowling Green, I decided to e-mail the track and cross
• 14:39
  country coach just for fun. You know, just cause in the back
• 14:43
  of my mind, I knew I had an extra indoor season of
• 14:48
  eligibility. Calvin didn't actually have an
• 14:50
  official indoor program until my junior year and that was the
• 14:55
  year that we actually qualified and went to nationals in the
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  DMR. So it was really our first year
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  having an indoor program. And so I emailed Cami Paulson
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  and about 1/2 hour later she replied back, set up a meeting
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  and then boom, I was on the indoor track and field team.
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  So yeah, so that was pretty wild.
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  I didn't really have the plan going in that I was gonna try to
• 15:26
  run and finish out my eligibility.
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  But you know, once the opportunity presented itself and
• 15:32
  Cami was more than happy to have me join and you know, not be on
• 15:37
  scholarship or anything like that, 'cause I was a grad
• 15:39
  student like I had a grad assistantship already, but just
• 15:43
  to be able to get a dose of what running at the Division One
• 15:48
  level was like, I I jumped at the opportunity.
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  So what were you doing your grad work in?
• 15:54
  I was getting my Masters in Education with a concentration
• 15:57
  in sport administration. Were you thinking college
• 16:00
  coaching or going and teaching high school and coaching?
• 16:04
  Definitely college. Yeah.
• 16:05
  OK. Mm hmm.
• 16:06
  So yeah, since since my college experience, I mean Brian Deemer
• 16:11
  was the head coach and still is the head coach at Calvin in
• 16:15
  cross country. And I looked up to him so much
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  basically wanted that type of position of being a head cross
• 16:22
  country coach assistant track and field.
• 16:23
  Hmm. And that yeah he he he's an
• 16:28
  Olympian. He you know would never
• 16:30
  volunteer that information unless someone asked but super
• 16:33
  humble and yeah there's no one else I'd wanna really model Mm
• 16:39
  hmm. You know that after just his
• 16:42
  attitude and and faith and and drive to be able to balance many
• 16:47
  things and and be successful. I'm noticing a theme from Coach
• 16:51
  Harvey to now this coach of the impact coaches have had on your
• 16:55
  life to this point in in your career life, education.
• 17:01
  Yes, huge impact. That's awesome.
• 17:04
  So you get to take your first journey into full time coaching
• 17:08
  after you received your masters. Yeah, so I had my first coaching
• 17:14
  opportunity was actually at Frostburg State University out
• 17:18
  in Frostburg, Maryland. It's about an hour east of West
• 17:24
  Virginia. It's a good introduction to
• 17:26
  coaching, the moving, the moving that you sometimes have to do to
• 17:30
  find physicians. Yes, exactly.
• 17:33
  I actually, I left Bowling Green about a semester early and was
• 17:37
  able to finish my master's thesis project that summer.
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  So I basically dropped everything, packed up everything
• 17:48
  in my car, drove to a meet that the team was at, I think it was
• 17:51
  at Marietta College, and then followed the bus and followed.
• 17:55
  The bus. Or to my new home in Frostburg.
• 18:00
  Yeah. In I think it was beginning of
• 18:02
  February, middle of winter. Yeah, that was that was quite
• 18:07
  the experience. So yeah that was a full time
• 18:10
  intern position. So it was definitely you know
• 18:15
  kind of a minimum salary type of job but a great way to.
• 18:21
  I learned a ton there, just going from athlete to coach, you
• 18:25
  know, It was definitely a big transition, but I just tried to
• 18:30
  do the best I could with what I knew going in.
• 18:33
  And Dale Louis was the the head coach at the time at Frostburg
• 18:39
  State who definitely helped me, you know, through that process
• 18:44
  and was a good mentor for me there.
• 18:46
  Intern position. So did you parlay that into a
• 18:49
  full time position? No, actually it there at
• 18:56
  Frostburg. I mean a lot of different
• 18:57
  schools do this where they'll throw in, you know, the
• 19:00
  possibility of benefits or you know, a meal plan or on campus
• 19:04
  housing like. And it was kind of going along
• 19:07
  with that theme. I think it was at the beginning
• 19:08
  of that that phase of a assistant coaching position.
• 19:15
  And so it was really just supposed to be a two year deal
• 19:19
  and after about a year and a half I decided to start looking
• 19:23
  for some other positions potentially closer to home in
• 19:26
  the Midwest. And then I moved on to I was
• 19:30
  able to find a position at a part time position at Xavier
• 19:34
  University where I was just for that one year and I actually
• 19:41
  ironically got hired as the sprints and.
• 19:45
  Oh really? Yes.
• 19:48
  So the another mentor, Ryan Orner, he's the head coach there
• 19:55
  at Xavier. He he took me on and you know
• 19:59
  really tried to help develop my skills as a sprint's coach.
• 20:04
  Ultimately we both figured out over time that I am a distance
• 20:07
  coach through and through. I mean, you know, yeah, but it
• 20:14
  was, he really took a chance on me and and you know, built me up
• 20:18
  in a lot of different ways, you know, helped me.
• 20:22
  Through sometimes that I felt like I failed, you know, and
• 20:26
  hadn't experienced a whole lot of failure in my life up until
• 20:29
  that point. So went through a lot of things
• 20:32
  that year for sure. But yeah, it was, it was great
• 20:36
  experience and yeah, so that was a part time position.
• 20:40
  Like I said, I was hoping to land a full time coaching
• 20:44
  position. I mean you know, like since
• 20:47
  college I'd wanted to be a a full time college coach.
• 20:50
  That's just what I wanted to do. So then I interviewed and got
• 20:55
  offered a job at Olivet Nazarene.
• 20:57
  University Oh yeah. So you were just down the?
• 21:00
  Road from us, Yes. Or just up the road.
• 21:03
  Yeah. We we're, we're down the road.
• 21:05
  Yeah, that's it. Like, I sometimes don't know
• 21:07
  what Northwest, East and South is anymore.
• 21:10
  Yeah. Bourbon A that's very cool.
• 21:12
  What a great, what a great school, man.
• 21:14
  Love that. The campus and the facilities
• 21:16
  that they have there. So you're with Mike McDowell.
• 21:20
  That's right. Yeah, he was or he still is.
• 21:24
  The head cross country and track and field coach.
• 21:26
  They're still doing great things there at ONU.
• 21:28
  I remember I got to tell a quick Mike McDowell story first time
• 21:32
  I'm in his office and and I don't know why.
• 21:34
  I think he he was coaching cross country when I met him.
• 21:37
  He's kind of coached a bunch of different disciplines there at
• 21:40
  at Olivet Nazarene. But I'm sitting in his office
• 21:42
  and he's got, I think it was Oregon an Oregon license plate
• 21:47
  in the back that said sub 44. And I was trying and I just put
• 21:50
  him as a distance runner since he was coaching distance and I
• 21:53
  was like what events would you brag about sub 44 now humble
• 21:58
  brag. My 5 KPR is, is sub 44.
• 22:02
  I didn't make sense that that that would be what he's perhaps
• 22:05
  hey, I wouldn't do a laughing play but I'm like what in the
• 22:07
  world. So I asked him, I was like what
• 22:09
  you know, what is this sub 44 or sub 45 One of those, I can't
• 22:12
  remember which one. He was like a 44.45 point
• 22:15
  quarter, Miller back in the day like he was a big time sprinter.
• 22:22
  Yeah. Yeah, I was.
• 22:24
  I was blown away, man. I was like, holy cow.
• 22:26
  This dude was fast. Yes, he would be a great one to
• 22:31
  interview next. If you need, if you need
• 22:34
  someone. Else, but I want to interview
• 22:36
  him just so I can have a picture of a guy with a mustache like
• 22:39
  that on my social media, yes. He could tell you some great
• 22:45
  stories about racing against horses and yeah, being in the
• 22:53
  basically, I mean yeah, he was a sprinter and then started moving
• 22:58
  up to the 800 and had a lot of success both in the 400 and.
• 23:01
  Eight. Well, you're you're going to
• 23:02
  have to put in a good word for us and have him reach out to us
• 23:05
  to get him on the podcast. He he would be good.
• 23:07
  Absolutely. So.
• 23:09
  So how long were you there at Olivet Nazarene?
• 23:12
  I was at Onu for two years and had a had a really good
• 23:16
  experience there. Again learned a lot.
• 23:19
  I mean I just still have a lot to learn of course.
• 23:23
  But there I mean just in every situation, every coaching job
• 23:28
  I've had, I've I've after I leave, I know exactly why I was
• 23:33
  there. You know it's just there's so
• 23:35
  many aspects, you know, whether it was recruiting or home meet
• 23:39
  management or just working with different personalities or you
• 23:45
  know trying to manage a large roster.
• 23:47
  All of those, all of those things that I just learned so
• 23:52
  much of from from being at O&U and you know all the coaches
• 23:56
  there as well, of course with with Mike as the as the head.
• 24:00
  Coach, and we've got, if you're just joining us, got Nicole's
• 24:03
  husband Eric on the line as well.
• 24:05
  He's doing a really good job of being quiet.
• 24:08
  I don't know how you trained him, Nicole.
• 24:10
  I've known him forever. So this is really amazing.
• 24:15
  Yeah. That's good.
• 24:16
  That's smart and and we're talking we're we're going to get
• 24:20
  to what it's like to be two track coaches who are who are
• 24:23
  married where does and we don't. We're not going to skip ahead.
• 24:27
  I just want to know because I assume you guys met at a track
• 24:30
  meet is all of it. Nazarene where Eric comes into
• 24:33
  the picture. Are we still holding off for for
• 24:35
  Eric just now? We were still holding off at
• 24:39
  that point, yeah. We we had crossed paths, but we
• 24:44
  had never officially met before. We'll.
• 24:47
  Keep them later we'll we'll keep them in our sidecar for now
• 24:49
  we'll we'll we'll keep moving forward.
• 24:53
  Sounds. Great after all of it.
• 24:56
  Has rings. So I had started to get the idea
• 25:00
  that I was ready to look into applying for head coaching
• 25:04
  positions. Wasn't necessarily sure that I
• 25:07
  was ready to be a head coach, but Long story short, was
• 25:12
  offered a head coaching job for cross country men and women at
• 25:18
  Aurora University, which is in Aurora, IL, which is actually 20
• 25:23
  minutes. Yeah, I was gonna say how this
• 25:24
  is that. That's pretty close.
• 25:27
  Very close, very close. So yeah, so it was it was a a
• 25:34
  crazy start. I started in August and I think
• 25:37
  middle of August, you know, with the cross country season coming
• 25:41
  right up. So definitely got thrown into
• 25:45
  that a little bit. But yeah, just I I was there 3
• 25:49
  1/2 years and you know it was my first head coaching opportunity
• 25:54
  and learned a lot again, but also did some was able to help
• 26:02
  the athletes through a a big transition.
• 26:05
  The previous coach had really built up the program in numbers
• 26:10
  and in quality, you know, over the previous eight years.
• 26:12
  And so I was trying to just help keep that momentum going while
• 26:18
  also having a lot of culture, things stand out to me that I I
• 26:23
  thought that we could really try to improve upon a little bit.
• 26:27
  So yeah, I was only, you know, only there 3 1/2 years.
• 26:32
  Actually, just this past fall decided to step down after the
• 26:37
  cross country season because Eric got offered a head coaching
• 26:42
  position up. Here.
• 26:43
  So Eric must have come into the picture while you were at Aurora
• 26:45
  then, OK? Yes.
• 26:48
  And before we start talking about that, well, and we're
• 26:50
  going to pause there because we want to get Eric caught up in
• 26:53
  the timeline. But I didn't.
• 26:54
  I did have a question that as the head coach of the cross
• 26:58
  country team at Aurora, what surprised you the most coming
• 27:02
  from an assistant coaching career?
• 27:04
  So this is your first head coaching gig.
• 27:06
  What might have been like your biggest surprise of just what it
• 27:08
  meant to be a head coach and the duties and responsibilities?
• 27:15
  Oh, that's a great question. I think plenty.
• 27:19
  I've heard this plenty before, but just to I guess re or say it
• 27:26
  again, you never really know how to be a head coach until you are
• 27:30
  one. So you can, you can observe as
• 27:33
  an assistant all you want. You can think to yourself, oh,
• 27:37
  if I were a head coach, this is how I would have done it or this
• 27:40
  is what I would do in this situation.
• 27:41
  I mean, you can always be thinking through those scenarios
• 27:44
  and should be, you know, doing that as an assistant.
• 27:47
  But I know for me as a head coach in a in a program that I
• 27:51
  wasn't familiar with, you know, and is a very different type of
• 27:55
  school than anywhere, I'd been just being ready to adapt, being
• 28:00
  open, being ready to adapt and just being willing to jump in
• 28:05
  and and just go for it. That was that was the biggest
• 28:08
  thing. I think I really had to adjust
• 28:10
  to can never. I think it's important to
• 28:15
  remember coming in as a head coach that there is a past
• 28:19
  everywhere at at whatever program you are at.
• 28:21
  So to really learn where the athletes came from, I think was
• 28:25
  was one of the biggest takeaways I I found, especially throughout
• 28:30
  that first year of just recognizing that hey, like I
• 28:34
  can't come in and automatically change everything about
• 28:38
  everything about this program. You know so.
• 28:41
  And didn't and I didn't want to, but you know, there's just
• 28:45
  plenty of things that you know you want to make it your own
• 28:47
  program, but there has to be a process there.
• 28:49
  You have to be patient and yeah, that's.
• 28:54
  Interesting you hear about when a coach whether it's a track
• 28:57
  coach you hear this a lot with football and basketball of
• 28:59
  course of them when it when the team becomes their team they've
• 29:03
  recruited their. I'm doing air quotes here their
• 29:05
  own athletes, their own kids, right.
• 29:08
  But you brought up the other aspect that maybe is just as
• 29:11
  important as you inherited, depending on the team, 20304050
• 29:15
  kids that they have a history, they've been at that school for
• 29:18
  one, 2-3 years and they're there for a reason and they have
• 29:22
  athletic talents and their own mental attitudes about the
• 29:26
  program. So to be successful, you're
• 29:28
  talking about that side of it as being, I don't want to put words
• 29:32
  in your mouth, but just as important.
• 29:34
  Right. And just meeting athletes where
• 29:36
  they're at, getting to know them, knowing who they are, what
• 29:40
  their background is. I feel like in my first year I
• 29:44
  had to really abbreviate a lot of that because we had a lot of
• 29:48
  athletes and we had a lot of very talented athletes as well.
• 29:51
  So, you know, no regrets definitely, but you know, 'cause
• 29:56
  it hindsight's 2020. But there's always things that I
• 30:00
  think anyone can look back on with their first big
• 30:03
  opportunity. You know, for me it was that
• 30:05
  head coaching position and think, oh, like I wish I had,
• 30:09
  you know, had more one-on-one meetings or you know, gotten to
• 30:13
  know them more than just as runners and and those types of
• 30:16
  things. Well, you definitely said some
• 30:19
  wise words there of meeting the athletes where they are today.
• 30:23
  You know they're they, they they're 18/19/2021 years old.
• 30:26
  When you get them, when you come into a program, they have a lot
• 30:30
  of history as you mentioned. So how can you meet them where
• 30:33
  they are now to help them grow inside of your program and the
• 30:37
  culture that you're going to bring?
• 30:40
  Yes, exactly. That's interesting.
• 30:41
  That's cool. Yeah.
• 30:42
  Yeah. So we're at Aurora.
• 30:45
  This is where the other half, definitely not the better half.
• 30:49
  The other half. Definitely not.
• 30:52
  Nicole, I'm always going to defer to you.
• 30:55
  Is this maybe a good time to transition over to Eric's story
• 30:59
  or do you have more to add to this point?
• 31:00
  OK. Great timing.
• 31:01
  I've been talking a lot already. That's, that's OK.
• 31:04
  No, no jokes are going to be made there at all.
• 31:07
  So that's a good, good spot, Eric.
• 31:10
  So Full disclosure, Eric and I have, I've known Eric since.
• 31:15
  What did we determine? How old were you when I first
• 31:17
  met you? I was It was the summer between
• 31:21
  my freshman and sophomore years of high school.
• 31:23
  So you were eighteen? No, no, no.
• 31:26
  No, I was 16. That was a dig at your academic
• 31:31
  background. So Eric and I met when I was
• 31:37
  lucky enough to be a helper, coach and assistant coach at the
• 31:41
  Indiana University Summer track and field camps, which were
• 31:44
  really just amazing times. Got to do it every summer for
• 31:47
  several summers in a row and got in one of the past podcast.
• 31:52
  We talked with Ernie Clark, who also got to do that and really
• 31:55
  got to relive just some great memories of working with the Ed
• 31:58
  Betheas and Marshall Goss's and Wayne Page.
• 32:02
  I mean, just some amazing amazing.
• 32:05
  Yeah. So you were there.
• 32:06
  And that's where we first first met.
• 32:09
  So maybe take us through. Where were you?
• 32:12
  Where'd you go to high school? How'd you end up running?
• 32:14
  I know you ran in college. And then go through your your
• 32:17
  bio here a little bit as well. Yeah.
• 32:20
  So I grew up southwestern Indiana, not far from
• 32:23
  Evansville. My when when people ask, well,
• 32:26
  where are you originally from, I say southern Indiana.
• 32:28
  They're like, OK, where whereabouts.
• 32:30
  And I said, Well, do you know where Santa Claus?
• 32:32
  Is. And and everybody's like, well,
• 32:35
  they've either heard of it because of Holiday or they've
• 32:38
  heard of it because up here in Wisconsin, everyone knows who
• 32:42
  Jay Cutler is. And so it's Jay Cutler who
• 32:46
  former Bears quarterback and as people in Wisconsin like to say,
• 32:51
  the best quarterback the Packers never had to pay.
• 32:57
  And I'm a Bears fan, So it's it's.
• 32:59
  Difficult to hear that sometimes.
• 33:01
  But the I grew up about 8-9 miles from Santa Claus, small
• 33:08
  town of Holland, IN oldest of three boys, my poor mother, and
• 33:16
  spent a lot of time on my grandparents farm.
• 33:19
  And you know, just just one of those good old country boys went
• 33:24
  to South Ridge High School, which is also home to Mark
• 33:30
  Boozy, who was a pole vaulter for.
• 33:32
  Indian. University national champion.
• 33:35
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So went to high school there
• 33:39
  and, you know, had a great track history for such a small high
• 33:44
  school of only about 500 kids. There have been some great,
• 33:48
  great athletes come through there.
• 33:50
  Cassie Workman was another one who's a shot putter for
• 33:53
  Tennessee, was a national runner up a few years back.
• 33:57
  And then I don't know from my hometown, which Mark and Cassie
• 34:03
  are both from the small town of Holland.
• 34:06
  But then there's also two NBA basketball players, Don Boosie,
• 34:11
  Gene Tormalton. So some great, great athletic
• 34:15
  history from our tiny small town of less than 700 people.
• 34:19
  And yeah, and so it's it's crazy that, you know, to to talk with
• 34:25
  people about where I come from and about all of that you.
• 34:28
  Know 'cause everything is a comparison.
• 34:29
  How many kids class, roughly? So and and so I The town I grew
• 34:36
  up in was 700 people, but we went to the neighboring town
• 34:40
  Huntingburg, which is where South Ridge is located.
• 34:43
  It was about I graduated with 100.
• 34:45
  And Nicole, how many people were in your graduating class?
• 34:50
  About 550. Oh, I thought it was bigger than
• 34:53
  that, even. It might have been closer to 600
• 34:58
  but for some reason I have that 550 it.
• 35:00
  It's interesting. I just think of WWS as like this
• 35:03
  juggernaut from track and field and football that I I honestly
• 35:06
  thought you were going to say 1000.
• 35:07
  Plus. I thought it was a huge, huge
• 35:09
  school. It's not quite as big as the
• 35:11
  Naperville schools, but it's still pretty good size, about
• 35:14
  2400, but you're maybe a little smaller now.
• 35:17
  But your senior class was just shy of his entire home city
• 35:24
  population, yes? Yes.
• 35:26
  So you mentioned a great pole vaulter and great shop putter.
• 35:29
  What events or events were you focused on?
• 35:32
  Yes. So I from an early age was told
• 35:37
  that I needed to do the hurdles and the high jump because my
• 35:41
  uncles who are school record holders at South Ridge.
• 35:45
  I have one uncle Tom Longi who it's my mom's brothers.
• 35:51
  Tom was well rewind Jerry who's the older one.
• 35:55
  He did high jump and the 400 and then did some relays and was at
• 36:03
  at. By the time he graduated, I
• 36:04
  believe he was the school record holder in the high jump, got got
• 36:08
  broken by one of their cousins, another longie and then and then
• 36:14
  my Uncle Tom was a hurdler and long jumper and he had the 300
• 36:19
  hurdle and the long jump school records.
• 36:22
  And so my compromise for the two uncles was I'll be a hurdler and
• 36:27
  a high jumper and then that way I can make both of em happy and
• 36:32
  proud to say that my 110 hurdle time and my high jump were
• 36:37
  better than both. Of so you you broke their school
• 36:39
  records. Well so the the high jump and
• 36:43
  the 110 hurdle record was broken by their cousin Joey who still
• 36:48
  holds the 110 record. He went 14-4 in high school, I
• 36:51
  went 14-5 and then high jump he went 6-8 and I was at six, six.
• 36:58
  So so ended up not getting those school records but the 300
• 37:04
  hurdle record. My Uncle Tom will forever hold
• 37:07
  that record because it was the low hurdles at the time and then
• 37:12
  I set the intermediate hurdle record.
• 37:14
  So our our names are still up on the school record list one on
• 37:19
  top of the other and and so it's kind of cool to be able to go
• 37:23
  back and and see that. You know, as your summer hurdle
• 37:26
  coach for five days a year. I'm just ashamed that we could
• 37:31
  not get that, that 110 school record.
• 37:34
  I'm so sorry that I failed you. That's all right.
• 37:37
  I will. I will never forget though the
• 37:39
  the first time we met I was it was after my freshman year of
• 37:42
  high school and I remember saying Oh yeah, I seven step and
• 37:49
  and you looked at me like, yeah, right.
• 37:51
  OK, kid. Whatever.
• 37:52
  What's your PR and and and I did I7 steps to the first hurdle now
• 37:57
  I was yeah. So it doesn't mean it was.
• 37:59
  Right. Yeah.
• 38:00
  Oh it was awful and but but I I have to credit you as the guy
• 38:04
  who taught me that I I should be 8 stepping and from my freshman
• 38:09
  to sophomore year I cut over a second off of my time so but
• 38:12
  thank you for that. You know, it's the it's the
• 38:16
  little thing. It's all about how you start.
• 38:17
  So I'm glad that we were. Able to exactly.
• 38:19
  That's all. Awesome.
• 38:20
  That's a good memory. Yeah.
• 38:22
  So where do you. I mean, 14-5 in high school.
• 38:24
  So you you had to have competed in college somewhere.
• 38:26
  That's that's nothing to be. Yes.
• 38:29
  That's not. That's no small time there.
• 38:30
  So where'd you end up going? Yes I I also played football and
• 38:35
  had walk on offers for some smaller D ones and some some
• 38:40
  NAIAS for football but nothing was a scholarship offer so I I
• 38:44
  decided and and I love track more also a huge baseball fan
• 38:50
  the one of the hardest decisions athletically for me was deciding
• 38:55
  to not play baseball in high school.
• 38:59
  The the baseball coach told me that I couldn't do both and so I
• 39:03
  said well I'm already better than well Andy said I couldn't
• 39:07
  play varsity as a freshman so I said well I'm already gonna be
• 39:10
  one of the best track athletes on the team and be varsity in
• 39:14
  track I'm gonna go there so ended up had a couple different
• 39:21
  offers and it's funny you know that Nicole was at Olivet
• 39:27
  Nazarene I I actually did get recruited by Olivet Nazarene and
• 39:33
  but ended up decided to go to Saint Joseph's College in
• 39:38
  Rensselaer IN ran under bill muscles there who is now at MSLE
• 39:44
  Milwaukee school of. Entering.
• 39:46
  And it's it's fun now because now we have a little in town
• 39:52
  rivalry from Milwaukee, but also we're in the.
• 39:55
  Same. Oh, so it's kind of isn't that
• 39:56
  interesting. Wow.
• 39:58
  Yeah, but it decided to go to Saint Joe's, which is it was was
• 40:04
  a division two school. And I say was because, yeah, a
• 40:10
  couple of years ago, I think it was 2017, February 2017, if I
• 40:16
  remember right, Bill could tell you the exact date.
• 40:19
  They decided that they were gonna close the school down
• 40:22
  because they'd been running on a deficit for multiple years and
• 40:26
  decided to tell everyone in February that they were closing
• 40:29
  that spring. So that was that was rough to
• 40:32
  what? Year Were you or were you
• 40:34
  weren't in school there in 2017? Yeah.
• 40:36
  Yeah. No, no, I was.
• 40:37
  I was out of school 10 years by then.
• 40:41
  You're still a high. School freshman to me, so it's
• 40:43
  hard to think of you. So right.
• 40:46
  So what did you major in there and where was coaching as a
• 40:50
  career in your mindset at that point?
• 40:53
  So initially going into college I was expecting to be a a
• 40:57
  teacher at at the high school level or middle school level and
• 41:00
  then be a coach at the high school and middle school level.
• 41:04
  And it was through junior year I had finished my my all of my
• 41:15
  prerequisite classes for history and and I was a history major
• 41:21
  originally with an education minor and through my in
• 41:25
  classroom experience and and things like that I I really came
• 41:30
  to the conclusion that it just wasn't for me that the the
• 41:33
  teaching aspect, I I love teaching and I I love that part
• 41:38
  of it. But the the thing that got me
• 41:42
  was having to teach the same lesson four or five times in a
• 41:45
  day. I just, I couldn't do it and I I
• 41:49
  just felt like it was way too monotonous and for me and I just
• 41:53
  didn't enjoy it as much this. Was about your junior year in
• 41:57
  high school. Oh, I'm sorry.
• 41:58
  In college, boy. Of college?
• 42:00
  Yeah, it was. It was part way through
• 42:02
  sophomore year, but then through junior year I really realized.
• 42:05
  It better to learn than not five years into a.
• 42:07
  Career. Exactly.
• 42:10
  So at that point then realized that it just what I really
• 42:15
  wanted to do was coach it. It wasn't so much the teaching
• 42:18
  aspect of being a teacher. I wanted to teach, but it wasn't
• 42:23
  history that I wanted to teach. I wanted to be a coach and teach
• 42:26
  the sport. So ended up dropping the
• 42:30
  education minor but picked up physical education because it
• 42:34
  was either that or stay an extra year and get a kinesiology
• 42:38
  minor. And I paying, you know, as much
• 42:42
  as I was for private education even with the track scholarship
• 42:45
  I decided I just want to be done after 40 years.
• 42:49
  So during my senior year Bill had talked about trying to get a
• 42:56
  a a part time assistant position or something created if I'd be
• 43:01
  interested. And I said well yeah, of course
• 43:04
  and that ended up falling through and not happening, but
• 43:08
  it really got me exploring the coaching idea.
• 43:11
  And so after graduating was a a three time national qualifier
• 43:17
  and the hurdles at Saint Joe College PR of 1435 and then and
• 43:24
  then it was a two time provisional qualifier indoors
• 43:29
  but was the cut off both my junior and senior years.
• 43:34
  So little bit of heartbreak there but ended up after
• 43:40
  graduation went to Franklin College and my my younger
• 43:47
  brother Chris who is now a high school track coach and high
• 43:52
  school teacher he he was playing football at Franklin College.
• 43:58
  And so when I went for my interview Paul Sargent who was
• 44:03
  the head coach at the time, he knew of me through my brother
• 44:09
  and he had been trying to convince my brother to come out
• 44:11
  for track for years and to no avail.
• 44:15
  But I Fast forward just a little bit I I did end up getting him
• 44:20
  to come out and long jump for us a little bit his senior year
• 44:24
  which was interesting as your first year as a coach and you're
• 44:27
  you're coaching a brother. It's it was it was an
• 44:30
  interesting experience but and almost got him to score at
• 44:35
  conference so so disappointing but but yeah so ended up because
• 44:42
  he knew my brother and he knew my brother was a good guy he
• 44:45
  ended up deciding that hey and and Paul's also originally from
• 44:49
  southern Indiana or near where I am from I'm going to mess it up.
• 44:54
  I think he's from Odin if I remember right.
• 44:57
  So N Davies High School area which is not far from where I'm
• 45:03
  from. And so he he took a shot on a
• 45:06
  young young fellow young Southern Indiana boy, and and
• 45:13
  then I blossom from. There, but we'll we'll be the
• 45:15
  determination we'll determine that.
• 45:17
  Let's not get ahead of ourselves and I know your time at Franklin
• 45:21
  was was really instrumental in your career.
• 45:23
  We've talked about that in the past and Paul Sargent is a
• 45:26
  mutual friend and also a a great dealer of galifetics equipment.
• 45:31
  So you know he's a great guy there.
• 45:33
  So how how did how long were you at Franklin and where did Where
• 45:36
  was the next step? Yeah, I was there for two years
• 45:39
  as an intern, so was was coaching, working mainly with
• 45:44
  jumps and sprints at the time, and was working for the
• 45:47
  maintenance department during the day.
• 45:49
  I was doing a lot of painting and general maintenance around
• 45:54
  campus and landscaping and things like that.
• 45:57
  I I was the guy who had to paint the football field every week.
• 46:00
  So the that was a lot of fun. I I actually enjoyed that a lot
• 46:04
  and so when when we're doing things prepping for home meets
• 46:08
  and getting things ready for competitions that's that's
• 46:11
  actually one of my favorite things of coaching.
• 46:14
  So getting to do all of why is that But I I think it's the the
• 46:21
  you know the farm boy and the you know I grew up bail on hay
• 46:26
  and helping out with you know grandparents but also a lot of
• 46:30
  my high school jobs were you know working for farmers and
• 46:34
  doing you know bailing hay mucking stalls doing things like
• 46:38
  that. And so to to see the fruits of
• 46:40
  your labor I guess that day and and you get done at the end of
• 46:44
  the day and you've sweated your butt off and your your yeah you
• 46:48
  get to see. A a tangible result, whether
• 46:51
  it's yeah, the the the hay has moved over here, it's in the
• 46:54
  barn or you fed the animals or if you're setting up that
• 46:57
  football field, do you see the the hash Marks and yeah.
• 47:00
  Exactly, exactly. So I that's something that I
• 47:04
  just I've always enjoyed and and other jobs that I've had as an
• 47:09
  assistant coach. We'll we'll get into that a
• 47:12
  little bit in the story here. But but yeah I did that and then
• 47:18
  after that two years, I really at that point decided yeah this
• 47:22
  is what I want to do. I want to be a college coach and
• 47:25
  so applied for some GA positions didn't get anything that I
• 47:29
  really liked as far as offers. So ended up going to Adrian
• 47:33
  College and what what's funny is, you know Nicole and I, we
• 47:38
  didn't meet at this point yet but her.
• 47:44
  I believe it was her sophomore her freshman year.
• 47:46
  You can correct me next year. No.
• 47:49
  No no, no, no. When Regionals were at Calvin.
• 47:53
  OK, sophomore, yeah. Sophomore year, So that would
• 47:56
  have been the first time that we probably would have crossed
• 47:58
  paths. We've we've tried to go back as
• 48:01
  far as we can and when we potentially could have met and
• 48:05
  I'm thinking that's probably the earliest that we would have been
• 48:08
  at the same place. You don't have any cool pictures
• 48:10
  that you're in the background of anything.
• 48:13
  So, so, yes. So while I was at Adrian, I was
• 48:19
  only there for the fall and was helping with cross country and
• 48:22
  we hosted the MI AA Championships that year.
• 48:25
  And so I was on the lead cart during the MI AA Championships
• 48:31
  and Nicole's coach was it Deemer that was filming.
• 48:37
  Yeah, he always films, yeah. He does and so, so watching her
• 48:43
  film from her senior year of the conference meet here, you see me
• 48:48
  driving the the cart and then about 1015 runners.
• 48:52
  Back there's Nicole. That's so cool.
• 48:57
  Yeah, so. So it was funny just that.
• 49:00
  Wow. That's I think I was more in the
• 49:02
  20s because I had about 12 to 15 teammates ahead of me.
• 49:07
  Oh jeez. Nicole.
• 49:09
  Nicole, I'm trying to give you some credit here.
• 49:11
  That's right. That's good.
• 49:13
  That's so cool. Wow, you guys were literally
• 49:16
  within meters of each other. Yes.
• 49:20
  Yeah. So was there for that fall.
• 49:23
  And then James Larson was the head coach at the time and I had
• 49:28
  told him when I got hired that I was really looking for Aga
• 49:30
  position. And so during Christmas break,
• 49:34
  it was funny. During Christmas break, he sent
• 49:36
  me an e-mail. Hey, Lake Erie College is
• 49:38
  looking for an assistant for Aga.
• 49:40
  With your background, do do you think you'd be interested?
• 49:43
  And I was like, yeah, OK. I mean, you're you're sending it
• 49:46
  to me. I'm.
• 49:47
  I'm not going to feel that if. I'm.
• 49:49
  Leaving in January and sure enough they they called me for
• 49:53
  an interview on a Wednesday, offered me the job on a
• 49:56
  Thursday. I accepted Friday morning and
• 49:59
  drove out there that Sunday and started on Monday.
• 50:02
  So it was it was boom boom boom. And so was was at Lake Erie
• 50:08
  College in Painesville. OH D2 school at the time was
• 50:13
  independent. They were in there last year of
• 50:15
  transitioning to D2 and then the following year they joined Cliac
• 50:20
  and with. This.
• 50:22
  Power conference with Ashland and Grand Valley and at the time
• 50:27
  Tiffin was also in there and. No, that is a murderous
• 50:31
  conference right there, buddy. Oh.
• 50:33
  Yes. Oh yeah.
• 50:34
  Yeah, and you guys had some success there.
• 50:35
  There's been some pretty good coaches that had gone through
• 50:38
  there and some athletes, if if I remember right, maybe did you
• 50:41
  have a a blue stud, high jumper or hurdler?
• 50:42
  Mm hmm. Yes, yeah, there was.
• 50:46
  There were quite a few. I my first all Americans that I
• 50:49
  that I directly trained for while I was there and so had a
• 50:57
  sprinter in the 100. The 200 and 400 was an all
• 51:00
  American in all three and then had a couple 400 hurdlers.
• 51:07
  There was a a multi guy, there was a high jumper, so just a
• 51:12
  bunch of great athletes that that we're going through there.
• 51:15
  We had our 4 by 4 qualified and and got all American as well.
• 51:21
  So I believe we finished my second year there.
• 51:25
  I believe we finished it was either 11th or 13th in the
• 51:29
  nation with just five athletes. We had our 4x4, the 100, the 202
• 51:38
  guys in the 400 hurdles and then a high jumper and so ended up, I
• 51:44
  think we tied Grand Valley that year.
• 51:47
  That's for that's a heck of an honor anytime, you know, Grand
• 51:49
  Valley. Yeah, they're, they're, they're
• 51:51
  always. Up there so.
• 51:53
  After Erie, where did you go after that?
• 51:56
  Yeah, so I I had several interviews for head coaching
• 51:59
  positions, assistant positions, and nothing fell through for me.
• 52:06
  So I ended up moving back home with my parents in August 'cause
• 52:11
  I finished my degree. I graduated in August and
• 52:17
  finished with my degree, moved back home with my parents, was
• 52:20
  doing substitute teaching, was doing some landscaping work with
• 52:24
  my uncle, my Uncle Tom, who had the the school records and
• 52:29
  stuff. He had a landscaping business at
• 52:32
  the time and then I was also working.
• 52:39
  I'm trying to remember now. I think I was working at
• 52:41
  convenience store and then also worked for some friends of mine.
• 52:44
  The workman's Cassie Workman, who I mentioned her older
• 52:47
  brother Chad is one of my best friends.
• 52:50
  He was in our wedding and their little son, Robert.
• 52:54
  Was our ring. Bearer and and fun story about
• 52:58
  that he they had taught him we had a baton instead of a pillow
• 53:05
  and the rings were tied to the baton and so he they had taught
• 53:09
  him ready set go. He's two years old and so mom my
• 53:15
  cousin his mom is standing in the back and she's right ready,
• 53:19
  set go. He takes off sprinting, leaves
• 53:22
  the flower girl in in his dust and he's sprinting down the
• 53:26
  aisle and he runs straight up the stage right into Daddy's
• 53:29
  arms. And it was hilarious.
• 53:33
  And so anyway, so workman's they let me work on their Turkey farm
• 53:39
  and so I loaded turkeys and it was one of those things where I
• 53:42
  just, I was not happy August through October.
• 53:47
  Just trying to figure out what my next step was, where I was
• 53:51
  supposed to be and you know, trying to have fun and enjoy
• 53:56
  life but at the same time was just not happy.
• 53:59
  And so Paul Sergeant needed a hurdle coach, and he called me
• 54:03
  in late October and said, hey, you know, I can't pay you
• 54:06
  anything. But our interns have a house.
• 54:09
  There's an extra bedroom. I can get you meals in the
• 54:12
  cafeteria. Will you take it?
• 54:14
  And I said yes, anything to Get Me Out of home.
• 54:18
  I don't. I love my parents, but I do.
• 54:21
  What? What was it?
• 54:22
  What was it many of? Because we talked about your
• 54:25
  parents before in different formats and told you to make
• 54:29
  sure you told them thank you for their sacrifice.
• 54:33
  Good. Yeah.
• 54:33
  Was it more about not wanting to live with mom and dad, which is
• 54:37
  is understandable at that at that age and stage of your life?
• 54:40
  Or was it more about the call of I got a coach, I need to, I need
• 54:45
  to coach? I think that was a big part of
• 54:48
  it. I I I've always felt like that's
• 54:53
  a very special thing for me and that's that's like that's my
• 54:56
  calling that's that's where I need to be.
• 54:58
  And so when when he called me to offer me that I was all right
• 55:03
  when can I start tomorrow. And so so ended up going back to
• 55:08
  Franklin was the they had just built a brand new outdoor track
• 55:13
  and had a new softball field tennis courts practice football
• 55:17
  and soccer fields a brand new they called it their back 40
• 55:23
  acres and they built all these new facilities but they needed
• 55:27
  someone to help take care of it. So I I was working either as a
• 55:33
  substitute teacher or was doing maintenance work, maintaining
• 55:37
  painting lines, mowing grass, you know, keeping track of
• 55:42
  things with the facilities, just keeping things together for that
• 55:47
  spring. With softball, I was in charge
• 55:49
  of getting the field ready for the games and stuff.
• 55:52
  So was doing all of that during the day and then in the
• 55:55
  afternoon I would get to coach, so and then I got free housing
• 56:00
  and meals and cafeteria, which was nice.
• 56:04
  Yeah, so was there for that spring and then this was up to
• 56:09
  2012, summer of 2012 got an interview at UW Milwaukee and
• 56:16
  was honestly when I applied, I thought it was a little out of
• 56:20
  my range. I thought, you know they they
• 56:23
  want somebody with D1 experience.
• 56:25
  You know, I've been D3D2. Maybe I'll throw my name in and
• 56:30
  sure enough got an interview, nailed it and was hired and was
• 56:36
  there for six years from 2012 to 2018.
• 56:42
  And and then that's when I ended up meeting Nicole while I.
• 56:45
  Was So here we are. We've got Nicole.
• 56:49
  It's only taken us 56. Minutes to get in.
• 56:52
  It's all good. It's.
• 56:53
  All good build up to. Where we are today.
• 56:56
  So on one side we have Nicole as the head cross country coach at
• 57:01
  Aurora University and on the other side we got this sprints
• 57:05
  hurdles coach at UW Milwaukee. I don't understand how you guys
• 57:11
  could meet. You're not in the same, you're
• 57:13
  not doing cross country Eric. So you're not at cross country
• 57:15
  needs I assume Nicole, you're not at clinics going to the
• 57:20
  sprints and hurdles talk speaker and you would run into them.
• 57:24
  So how did you guys meet? Nicole, I'll let you tell it.
• 57:31
  So we both we met online and as much as I always say like, I
• 57:37
  really wish I could say we met at a meeting.
• 57:40
  And it was. Just love at first sight.
• 57:43
  But yeah, it wasn't. It was on Plenty of Fish, a free
• 57:47
  dating app. You know, and we're both very
• 57:51
  frugal so didn't want to spend money on that, so, so hold on.
• 57:55
  Let's take a step back, 'cause I I also agree.
• 57:57
  I was hoping there was this, like you guys were both looking
• 58:01
  the other direction and ran into each other at a meet and you're,
• 58:04
  you know, you dropped your stopwatch and he picked it up.
• 58:07
  Or there was an argument at a conference or at an Invitational
• 58:12
  you met online. So had you guys not met each
• 58:15
  other at all up to that point? Like you literally were
• 58:18
  strangers on the. Internet at all.
• 58:20
  Who I I assume you saw each other's profession.
• 58:22
  Or like, wait a minute. She coaches track.
• 58:24
  I coached track. Yeah, exactly.
• 58:27
  So it was it was more of her seeing my profile and deciding
• 58:31
  that because she needs this. Content Interesting.
• 58:34
  Yeah, I did reach out first, 'cause his profile.
• 58:37
  I have it. I have it all saved somewhere.
• 58:40
  And that's. When I find.
• 58:41
  It. That's goodness.
• 58:42
  That'll be fun. That's cool.
• 58:44
  But yeah, it said something like, I'm AD one assistant track
• 58:50
  and field coach in Milwaukee. And I'm like, well, there's only
• 58:54
  two Division One schools in Milwaukee, so I can figure this
• 58:57
  out pretty quick. And so I pull up UW Milwaukee.
• 59:00
  And there he is. And I'm like, yeah, oh, cool.
• 59:04
  All right, well, I'm not opposed to dating another coach,
• 59:08
  especially AD one coach. Like you know, this is all
• 59:11
  right. So, so I I reached out and yeah,
• 59:16
  we just started talking and I think it was in the spring like
• 59:19
  late spring of what 2017 and. Yeah, so now what's the driving
• 59:28
  distance between Aurora and Milwaukee?
• 59:32
  100 and how many miles? Well, I was living in Glen Ellyn
• 59:36
  at the time, so it was about, it was about 100 miles.
• 59:38
  Then. So less than two hours then?
• 59:42
  Oh, so. Not terrible, depending on
• 59:43
  traffic. Of course, you sound like you're
• 59:45
  from California when you say that.
• 59:47
  You know, depending. On the traffic so.
• 59:49
  Not, I mean, you know, distance, long distance dating, but you
• 59:52
  know, within a couple of hours in a car, less than a couple of
• 59:55
  hours in a car. So did you, you said this was in
• 59:59
  the spring. Did you guys check your
• 1:00:02
  schedule? Were you at the same meets at
• 1:00:04
  all? We well.
• 1:00:08
  We were. At 1:00, but it was before we
• 1:00:10
  had started talking. It was like.
• 1:00:12
  It was like end of April I think we started or May even that we
• 1:00:16
  started talking. So yeah, like most of the season
• 1:00:18
  had been done. I know Eric had, he had NCAA
• 1:00:23
  first rounds and nationals that I like.
• 1:00:27
  Our season was over. You know, D1 schedule goes a
• 1:00:29
  little bit longer than D3. And so he was explaining, Oh
• 1:00:33
  yeah, hey, I'm out in Oregon, and yeah, and I don't think we
• 1:00:38
  had met yet. At that point we had OK, our our
• 1:00:42
  first date, our first date was June 1st and it was because the
• 1:00:48
  The Knack conference was having their their meetings at
• 1:00:52
  Wisconsin Lutheran College and Nicole came up early to go to,
• 1:01:00
  well came up to go to the meeting but asked if we could
• 1:01:03
  meet for coffee. And so we we met up at a little
• 1:01:07
  Colectivo coffee, which is not far from campus and we actually
• 1:01:14
  have been there a couple times since and but we met there for
• 1:01:18
  coffee and and then mm hmm. Yes, it was Cole.
• 1:01:21
  As someone who's known him since he was a wee little teenager,
• 1:01:25
  what was your first impression at that coffee date?
• 1:01:31
  Oh man, I don't know. He looked about like he did in
• 1:01:37
  the pictures. What a compliment he.
• 1:01:42
  Looked about about like he did. Wow.
• 1:01:45
  Wow. Remember the goal?
• 1:01:47
  Yeah. I won't get into it goal.
• 1:01:49
  The goal is to make sure after this interview there's all
• 1:01:52
  harmony in the marriage. OK, I'll I'll have to be careful
• 1:01:55
  with my questions. How did?
• 1:01:59
  Well, first of all let's as we move forward a little bit here
• 1:02:02
  and you're starting to actually date now, not just first date.
• 1:02:05
  Secondly like OK we're we're a couple.
• 1:02:07
  We're in a relationship. Was there any reservation on
• 1:02:10
  either of your sides about dating another track coach?
• 1:02:16
  Not really from my end, I don't think from Eric's side either.
• 1:02:20
  Not to speak for you, but I I think it was is exciting because
• 1:02:25
  we understood each other's worlds.
• 1:02:27
  I mean, even though I like we are different in the fact that
• 1:02:30
  I'm definitely more distance and Eric is all sprints, turtles,
• 1:02:34
  jumps, you know, we we understand coaching.
• 1:02:38
  We understand the passion and the energy and the time that it
• 1:02:41
  takes. There's just a lot of things
• 1:02:45
  that, you know, we we get and we don't have to explain to someone
• 1:02:48
  that's like, oh, so, you know, like the typical question we get
• 1:02:52
  a lot is, oh, so do you just coach?
• 1:02:55
  Is that all you? Do right, right, right, and.
• 1:02:57
  It's like, yeah, that's all I have time for or any, you know?
• 1:03:03
  The the I coach track. Oh, what do you teach?
• 1:03:05
  No, no, I coach track. That's an actual full time job,
• 1:03:09
  right? Any reservations on your side,
• 1:03:12
  Eric? No, I, you know, at first it was
• 1:03:17
  kind of like, well, when we first started talking, I I
• 1:03:21
  thought, well, you know, I don't know how I feel about dating
• 1:03:24
  another coach. But you know what?
• 1:03:27
  Here's how I look at this. If if we go on a couple dates
• 1:03:30
  and it's just not if it's just not right then at least I've
• 1:03:34
  expanded my you know at least talked with someone else and
• 1:03:39
  gotten to know another coach and yeah at least professionally it
• 1:03:43
  could you know help me down the line that I've got another
• 1:03:46
  connection and and so you know I, it's funny I was more of a
• 1:03:53
  we'll see how this goes so. Now, are you trying to infer
• 1:03:57
  that the pole was the opposite of that in some way?
• 1:04:03
  I I don't know. I from from our conversations
• 1:04:07
  with each other it seems like she was kind of like all right
• 1:04:09
  let's let's go let's see what the what happens here and and I
• 1:04:13
  was a little more hesitant just I I didn't wanna I I guess on a
• 1:04:18
  professional end you know knowing another coach and
• 1:04:21
  everything I didn't want to I I guess ruin a a potential
• 1:04:28
  coaching. Connection.
• 1:04:31
  And so so I I kind of went into it thinking like OK you know
• 1:04:34
  what I'm gonna I'm gonna make a friend and if if it ends up that
• 1:04:37
  we're good a good match for each other then that's all the better
• 1:04:41
  for the relationship. But you know if anything at
• 1:04:44
  least I'll come out of this with a friend and and so it it ended
• 1:04:48
  up. You know I think that's one of
• 1:04:50
  the the positives that that one reason why we're we work so well
• 1:04:56
  together in our marriage is that we're friends first And and it's
• 1:05:02
  it's kind of weird. You know it's it's that cliche
• 1:05:04
  of oh you should marry your best friend.
• 1:05:06
  And in reality, yeah, I think I did so.
• 1:05:10
  So what I'm hearing is you did not close down your account on
• 1:05:14
  plentyoffish.com. So I did go on one or two.
• 1:05:20
  Please. Two other dates last on the
• 1:05:22
  first date. Nicole and this is not.
• 1:05:25
  OK. Yes, she knows A.
• 1:05:27
  Little. Nervous and but but after after
• 1:05:30
  we got back from nationals and I I think it was after our second
• 1:05:34
  date which I I had gone home after D1 nationals.
• 1:05:40
  I went home to visit family and on my way back to Milwaukee I
• 1:05:43
  stopped in Chicago and we had dinner together.
• 1:05:46
  And I think it was after that that I was like OK, you know
• 1:05:49
  what? I'm not I'm not gonna see
• 1:05:51
  anybody else. I'm gonna, you know, see where
• 1:05:53
  this goes and then we'll go from there.
• 1:05:55
  And so that at that point, after a second date, it was like okay,
• 1:05:59
  nobody else is getting. So how how was it?
• 1:06:01
  Take me through. So the first season that you
• 1:06:04
  guys would have had as a dating couple would have been that
• 1:06:07
  falls cross country season, right.
• 1:06:10
  So Nicole is you know when you're coaching and you're as a
• 1:06:15
  head coach, you know a lot of your attention the the bulk of
• 1:06:18
  your attention has to be on that team and all the things that go
• 1:06:21
  on with it with scheduling and travel and results and coach and
• 1:06:24
  training and things like that. How did you manage that portion
• 1:06:29
  with a in a relationship with someone?
• 1:06:31
  Who else is now doing fall training for a college team as
• 1:06:34
  well? Right.
• 1:06:37
  Well I from what I can remember again my my memory could be a
• 1:06:41
  little bit foggy here that would have been fall of 2017.
• 1:06:47
  So with our schedule at the time we had pretty local meats.
• 1:06:53
  We don't go across the country or anything like that other than
• 1:06:56
  for the national meet if we have qualifiers.
• 1:06:58
  So we we were pretty close by for a lot of our meats.
• 1:07:03
  So I know, I remember like Eric came to our conference meet that
• 1:07:07
  was on the north side of Milwaukee, you know, and
• 1:07:12
  possibly a couple others, Oshkosh maybe.
• 1:07:16
  So that was pretty cool that he, he decided to come to those, you
• 1:07:20
  know, 'cause he didn't have meets in the fall that he needed
• 1:07:23
  to be at as a as a track coach. So I but I do remember being
• 1:07:29
  very invested and involved in. I mean this is just my work
• 1:07:32
  style that like I'm all in. You know, when it's when I need
• 1:07:37
  to put in a 12 hour day, it's it's done.
• 1:07:40
  You know, like if I'm on A roll with recruiting or with planning
• 1:07:44
  for a meet or training or something like that, I'll easily
• 1:07:47
  be in the office till 9:00 or 10:00 at night.
• 1:07:50
  I mean that's just that's just part of my work style.
• 1:07:54
  It may not be the healthiest, but that is at the time what
• 1:07:58
  worked for me. And so, you know, I, I remember
• 1:08:02
  there'd be times, I think we'd we'd usually talk on the phone
• 1:08:05
  every night pretty much. And I'd be like, yeah, still in
• 1:08:09
  the office, but I'll call you when I'm on my way home or, you
• 1:08:13
  know, back. That's what I was wondering if
• 1:08:16
  when you're in season that there's little time for someone
• 1:08:21
  else. You know as as coaches who have
• 1:08:23
  spouses, not a track coach, you know, they have to really work
• 1:08:27
  hard at Just because I'm in season, well, I I need to pay
• 1:08:30
  attention to my spouse and my family.
• 1:08:32
  So as a someone in a relationship with a track coach
• 1:08:35
  at the time, that's what I'm wondering is was there little
• 1:08:39
  time to explore this new relationship you had.
• 1:08:42
  And then on the same token with that Eric, were there times
• 1:08:45
  where you felt, I don't want to say neglected, but where, you
• 1:08:49
  know you were taking second fiddle to the career that she
• 1:08:52
  was in? If if I did not have a
• 1:08:58
  background in coaching, I think I probably would have been more
• 1:09:01
  I guess offended by it. But at the same time, because I
• 1:09:04
  I lived that during the track season, it was something I I
• 1:09:09
  completely understood where she was coming from that that hey,
• 1:09:11
  you know, you've got to do your recruiting, you've got to do
• 1:09:14
  your, you know, organization for your team and that takes a lot
• 1:09:17
  of time and effort. So I I wasn't offended, but it
• 1:09:21
  was only because I understood where she was coming from.
• 1:09:23
  I knew. I knew what it meant when she
• 1:09:26
  said, hey, I I need to spend some time in the office tonight.
• 1:09:29
  I was like, well, OK, that's fine.
• 1:09:30
  I. Get it?
• 1:09:31
  And Nicole, No problem. At this point, maybe it's too
• 1:09:33
  early in the relationship. This is just the fall of the
• 1:09:36
  first year you guys have met. Did you have any feelings of,
• 1:09:39
  like, I'm kind of leaving this guy out on his own?
• 1:09:41
  Like, I'm not paying attention to him as much as I would want
• 1:09:45
  to, or how much I think he might want, or anything like that.
• 1:09:50
  Not really. I don't think either of us, at
• 1:09:52
  least for the most part. I don't think either of us are
• 1:09:54
  like really needy and like needing to, like, communicate
• 1:09:58
  throughout the day, every single day.
• 1:10:00
  So I mean at most, like during the day, you know, a typical
• 1:10:04
  weekday with practice and, you know, meetings and everything
• 1:10:08
  going on. Like maybe we would send a text
• 1:10:12
  during the day, but if not, it'd just be like we'd talk on the
• 1:10:15
  phone at night every night. So I think we got into a pretty
• 1:10:19
  good understanding there. And I mean, yeah, it worked.
• 1:10:24
  Well, obviously spoiler. Spoiler alert these.
• 1:10:27
  Guys are married. Yeah, and I think on the
• 1:10:31
  weekends too. I mean, again like with being
• 1:10:35
  D3, a lot of our meets were just one day meets.
• 1:10:37
  We weren't on the road for three or four days.
• 1:10:40
  You know, I know a lot of Eric's meets, you know, during track
• 1:10:44
  season they would be overnight trips and and everything.
• 1:10:47
  But you know, on our on Sundays or or whatever, like if we could
• 1:10:52
  see each other we would so. Yeah, you're kind of done by
• 1:10:55
  call it noonish on Saturday and then you had the rest of your
• 1:10:58
  weekend. Yeah, I mean it'd be like
• 1:11:00
  Saturday night and I could I could drive up and you know so
• 1:11:05
  or with the other way around. So we we made it work.
• 1:11:08
  So Fast forward to the spring of 18, you're not, you're not
• 1:11:13
  engaged at this point, is that correct, through the track
• 1:11:16
  season of 18? Right.
• 1:11:18
  So did you guys. Have any meats.
• 1:11:20
  Together at that point? Or are you still kind of on your
• 1:11:22
  own separate ways? We did.
• 1:11:26
  We had the Benedictine meet that ended up getting cancelled.
• 1:11:31
  The first day it was rain and I think 35° and I think it
• 1:11:37
  eventually turned to snow and then they ended up cancelling.
• 1:11:40
  Sounds like a track meet in the Midwest.
• 1:11:43
  Uh, huh. Yeah, Yeah, exactly.
• 1:11:45
  So that there was that meet that we had together and then there
• 1:11:48
  were you know some North Central Last Chance meets that that we
• 1:11:53
  would have potentially had to or that we did end up having
• 1:11:55
  together. But other than that, I don't
• 1:11:58
  think there was anything else that we had where meet was
• 1:12:01
  together. Yeah, I'm trying to think.
• 1:12:04
  I don't. I don't think so either.
• 1:12:06
  So as you're progressing in your relationship, when does it take
• 1:12:11
  a turn? It's like, oh, and maybe this is
• 1:12:13
  a question for Eric. When did it take a turn of like
• 1:12:17
  OK, this is the one. It was so we we started dating
• 1:12:25
  June of 2017. It was by end of July 2017 that
• 1:12:33
  that we were. We were, yeah.
• 1:12:35
  It was like it was love and it was real.
• 1:12:38
  And we knew. Like Nicole.
• 1:12:40
  Would. You agree with that?
• 1:12:42
  Yes. I would.
• 1:12:43
  All right. I would.
• 1:12:44
  Good, Good, Good. Yeah, yeah, we knew.
• 1:12:48
  We knew pretty early on. We, I mean, again I think it was
• 1:12:51
  because we initially started it out as let's you know let's be
• 1:12:54
  friends and get to know each other and then and then you know
• 1:12:58
  see where the relationship goes. And it was like, man, like this
• 1:13:01
  girl's awesome and what? So yeah.
• 1:13:05
  So it was I, I, I can specifically remember gonna get
• 1:13:10
  all romantic here. But I can specifically remember
• 1:13:12
  the night that we said I love you to each other for the first
• 1:13:15
  time. It was a Summerfest and after a
• 1:13:19
  Phil Vassar concert and and we we were looking into each
• 1:13:23
  other's eyes and she said it first and I was like oh crap,
• 1:13:26
  I'm supposed to do when he says that first.
• 1:13:30
  That's the competitiveness of Eric right there.
• 1:13:32
  But I wanted to say it first, yes.
• 1:13:34
  Yeah. And I mean I'm super competitive
• 1:13:36
  also. So I was like well.
• 1:13:37
  I'm I definitely like. It's a competition.
• 1:13:40
  I'm saying it first. No, I don't.
• 1:13:44
  I don't know. So I I have to tell an insider
• 1:13:47
  story on you. 2I, I don't know if Nicole knows this side of it
• 1:13:51
  or not. You were involved Nicole, but I
• 1:13:53
  don't know if you know this side.
• 1:13:55
  But I can tell you from my perspective.
• 1:13:56
  So I'm pretty sure it had to be December of 18 or of 17.
• 1:14:02
  I would assume at this point we're at the USTFCCCA
• 1:14:06
  convention. Where does that jive?
• 1:14:09
  You guys were both there at in 17.
• 1:14:11
  OK. So it either had to be 17 or 18.
• 1:14:14
  But one of those, I'm pretty sure it's 17.
• 1:14:16
  You know, again, Eric and I have known each other for, you know,
• 1:14:19
  a long, long time. And we're probably just talking.
• 1:14:23
  And he goes, yeah, he goes, so how long are you going to be
• 1:14:25
  right here? And I was like, well, you know,
• 1:14:27
  for a while. And it's like, why?
• 1:14:28
  What's up, man? You know, I figured you had to
• 1:14:29
  run off to one of the wonderful speakers or something.
• 1:14:32
  And he's like, well, I got someone I want you to meet.
• 1:14:34
  And I was like, oh, is this Nicole?
• 1:14:36
  Because I'd seen it maybe through social media or
• 1:14:38
  something. And he's like, yeah, yeah, I
• 1:14:40
  really want you to meet her. And so he went and tracked you
• 1:14:43
  down you were you were probably at one of those cross country
• 1:14:45
  meetings Nicole and he brings you back and he just like
• 1:14:48
  presented you like and I mean this in all the respectful ways
• 1:14:52
  this. So don't this is not to be
• 1:14:54
  disrespectful, but as this shiny trophy like look, look at her.
• 1:14:59
  Look at this like. Can you believe this, Mike?
• 1:15:02
  I you know, this is Nicole. She's real.
• 1:15:05
  And it was just. So awesome to see Eric's face.
• 1:15:09
  I mean, I've seen him and and a lot of different aspects where
• 1:15:12
  he's where he's had success and he's been smiling and happy and
• 1:15:15
  this was a different smile, a much larger, happier, authentic
• 1:15:22
  smile. To be able to introduce his well
• 1:15:26
  at that point now we know he was really serious about you
• 1:15:29
  girlfriend to me. So it was just really special to
• 1:15:31
  see that and be able to meet you as the the girlfriend, Nicole.
• 1:15:37
  Yeah, I do remember. That Yeah, yeah, that's cool.
• 1:15:41
  So now I'm going to let you guys choose.
• 1:15:44
  We have to hear how the proposal went down.
• 1:15:48
  There's always something special.
• 1:15:51
  I'm really hopeful. I don't, I don't think I know
• 1:15:53
  this story. So I'm really hopeful it
• 1:15:54
  involved some kind of whether it's a baton like your your ring
• 1:16:00
  bearer or something with track and field.
• 1:16:02
  You threw it, you threw a javelin at her and the ring was
• 1:16:05
  on. I don't know how.
• 1:16:06
  No, it's It's actually not you're.
• 1:16:08
  You're gonna like this story. OK, Like this story.
• 1:16:11
  I don't know about the listeners, but OK, yeah, they
• 1:16:14
  they might be able to relate. They have no choice Their their
• 1:16:16
  their earbuds are in. You gotta get through this
• 1:16:19
  listener. OK, who's?
• 1:16:23
  Yeah, you need. To tell it so, yeah.
• 1:16:26
  OK, so I knew that I wanted to propose for a couple months and
• 1:16:32
  so this was, it was before October of 2018, but it it we
• 1:16:41
  had been talking in, in August, actually in July the head coach
• 1:16:48
  at UWM had retired. He ended up, you know, having
• 1:16:52
  some health issues and decided he just, he wanted to step away
• 1:16:55
  and and end things on a high note.
• 1:16:58
  And so his position came open. I applied and while in that
• 1:17:05
  whole process I had decided that, you know, regardless of
• 1:17:09
  what ends up happening, whether I get the job or not, I'm gonna
• 1:17:11
  propose to Nicole and and we had talked about it, you know, that
• 1:17:15
  that marriage was, you know, the next step on in our relationship
• 1:17:18
  and we were we were both ready for it.
• 1:17:20
  And so I I was gonna wait until I knew what was happening with
• 1:17:26
  that job. Well, September came and
• 1:17:29
  mid-september, late September, they ended up deciding to give
• 1:17:32
  the job to someone else, which Andrew Basler, great guy, you
• 1:17:37
  know, have had a great working relationship with him and
• 1:17:40
  helping him transition into that role and wish him nothing but
• 1:17:43
  the best. He's done a great job there so
• 1:17:45
  far and really excited to see where he takes the program.
• 1:17:49
  But at that point, when I didn't get the head coaching job, I
• 1:17:52
  decided, you know what, I need to make sure my priority's in
• 1:17:56
  the right place. I've spent 13 years as a college
• 1:17:59
  coach and I've always put my relationships 2nd and so I need
• 1:18:06
  to re evaluate myself as my coach as as Bill Muscles would
• 1:18:10
  always say to me in college we need to have a come to Jesus
• 1:18:13
  meeting and so so I I needed to have that thought.
• 1:18:17
  Process that meeting. With myself.
• 1:18:19
  And so I decided at that point that, you know, I was ready to
• 1:18:24
  get married to Nicole. And so that meant I'm, you know,
• 1:18:28
  she's she's a head coach. I'm an assistant.
• 1:18:31
  She's making more than me. I need to make the sacrifice of
• 1:18:36
  of leaving UWM and leaving Division One and move down to be
• 1:18:40
  closer to her and. Get engaged.
• 1:18:43
  And so October 13th of 2018 was my last day at UW Milwaukee and
• 1:18:52
  I moved down. Got a job working FedEx loading
• 1:18:56
  and unloading trailers and then and that was.
• 1:18:59
  True. Yeah, I'd have to be up at 3:00
• 1:19:02
  AM and go to work, and then I'd be done by 8/30, 9:00, but then
• 1:19:08
  would have I also had Jeff Feller's head track coach at
• 1:19:14
  Aurora University was blessed that he thought enough of me to
• 1:19:19
  hire me as his hurdles coach. So I I was doing that.
• 1:19:23
  And then I also was walking dogs as as a part time job.
• 1:19:28
  So I had three, yeah, I had three-part time jobs, FedEx dog
• 1:19:32
  walking and coaching and so was doing all of that.
• 1:19:36
  But on October 26th, which also happened to be my birthday, it
• 1:19:45
  was the day before Aurora was set to host the Cross country
• 1:19:50
  championships and Nicole and the rest of the staff, we were all
• 1:19:55
  out at the course, setting things up for the course and
• 1:19:59
  getting it ready. And at nightfall, then we had
• 1:20:03
  made plans to have dinner with her parents at Olive Garden.
• 1:20:07
  Are they in on it? The parents.
• 1:20:10
  OK, her mom was Oh yes, dad was not.
• 1:20:14
  And so so didn't know the details.
• 1:20:20
  Yeah, I should say so. Then.
• 1:20:23
  So we went to dinner and I could tell Nicole was exhausted.
• 1:20:26
  She, you know, she was, had been working out at the course all
• 1:20:29
  day. And so at the end of the meal
• 1:20:32
  then her mom said, hey, why don't you guys come back and
• 1:20:37
  have some cake and ice cream at the house And I'm right away
• 1:20:40
  before Nicole can say anything. Yeah, yeah, let's do that.
• 1:20:44
  Because I knew. Oh, I thought it was because of
• 1:20:46
  ice cream and cake. I've never seen you.
• 1:20:48
  I've never seen you. Turn that down, yes.
• 1:20:50
  That's what it was, OK. So, so, and of course I look
• 1:20:55
  right at Nicole and she's got this look on her face.
• 1:20:57
  Yeah, Nicole just wants to go. To bed.
• 1:20:59
  Get ready for tomorrow. I just want to go home.
• 1:21:01
  Yeah, it's like we're hosting a conference.
• 1:21:03
  Championship tomorrow like. Everything's got to be perfect.
• 1:21:07
  I have to be up at dawn. This is so you've got kidding.
• 1:21:11
  So. You are singularly focused on
• 1:21:14
  hosting the cross country meeting, nothing else.
• 1:21:16
  Exactly. And I mean, I, I even felt a
• 1:21:19
  little bit bad because I was like, oh man, we're, you know,
• 1:21:22
  we're out to dinner, like for Eric's birthday and like, OK,
• 1:21:26
  this is, this is all we're celebrating this year.
• 1:21:28
  Like we're not doing anything crazy because, yeah, I mean, we
• 1:21:32
  just, yeah, I mean coaching, coaching priority, you know,
• 1:21:36
  that's. Right.
• 1:21:40
  So we we go back to her parents house and there's a big present
• 1:21:44
  right on the kitchen table and and it's like oh it's it's got
• 1:21:48
  my name on it And so her her mom says well you know do we do you
• 1:21:53
  wanna do the present now or do you wanna do.
• 1:21:55
  Cake. And I'm gonna keep.
• 1:21:55
  I'm gonna keep. And I'm I'm gonna keep milking
• 1:21:57
  this. So, Nicole, you see this gift?
• 1:21:59
  Do you know, like you don't know anything about it?
• 1:22:02
  So is this any raising suspicion here?
• 1:22:05
  I had a little I was a little bit suspicious with with the
• 1:22:09
  present. Yeah, right.
• 1:22:10
  Yeah, 'cause. And then I was more suspicious
• 1:22:12
  Later, mom and. Dad would have told you.
• 1:22:14
  Hey, we're getting Eric XYZ for his birthday.
• 1:22:18
  It'll be on the table when we get home.
• 1:22:19
  See what I told you? OK.
• 1:22:21
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, so.
• 1:22:26
  So I I right away I say, well, let's do cake and ice cream 1st.
• 1:22:29
  And again I could see Nicole rolling your eyes like, oh this?
• 1:22:32
  You kidding me? Let's move it along, yeah?
• 1:22:35
  Yeah, exactly. So so we, we do the cake and ice
• 1:22:40
  cream and then the present. And at that point I'm like, oh,
• 1:22:44
  you know what? Hey, no, my mom said if we do
• 1:22:47
  any presents or anything, I should, I should film it.
• 1:22:49
  So I go and I put my phone up and I set it over on the counter
• 1:22:53
  and it's recording and ready. And Nicole's mom, bless her
• 1:22:58
  heart, she's not that great with technology.
• 1:23:00
  And so she's like, Oh yeah, let me let me take some pictures and
• 1:23:04
  video and stuff. And she knew what was coming.
• 1:23:06
  So. So at that point, I think Nicole
• 1:23:09
  was pretty suspicious. And.
• 1:23:12
  Yeah, so, so I I open the card and I read the card and I'm
• 1:23:17
  like, oh, thank you. Like the card was actually for
• 1:23:19
  my birthday and and then I go to open the present and I open it
• 1:23:23
  up and so, So my last name is Kramer.
• 1:23:27
  There was a quarterback for the Bears in the mid 90s.
• 1:23:31
  His name was Eric Kramer and then there was also for the
• 1:23:36
  Green Bay Packers. There was a Hall of Fame lineman
• 1:23:41
  for the Packers named Jerry Kramer and and so again little
• 1:23:47
  background that I I said earlier I'm a Bears fan.
• 1:23:51
  Well, Nicole. Is a bitter.
• 1:23:52
  Rival Oh yes, so, so there's a lot of fun on those those games.
• 1:24:04
  But so I, I open up the box and it's a Packers jersey and I'm
• 1:24:11
  like, yeah, I don't, I don't think this is for me.
• 1:24:15
  I I think this is for you. And she's like, what?
• 1:24:18
  What? Yeah.
• 1:24:20
  And so I slide it over and she picks it up and she takes it
• 1:24:23
  out-of-the-box and it's perfect. Video is perfect.
• 1:24:26
  But I've been sworn to secrecy of who's allowed to see the
• 1:24:31
  video. I I'm, I'm, Nicole.
• 1:24:34
  Will not let me share that. It's a good thing this is an
• 1:24:37
  audio podcast, not a video podcast.
• 1:24:39
  We have to splice that in. So, OK, we're.
• 1:24:41
  Good. Yeah, so.
• 1:24:43
  So she picks up the jersey and holds it up and the camera is
• 1:24:47
  placed perfectly because you see on the back of the jersey Kramer
• 1:24:51
  and and he was #64 and so she picks it up and she looks at it
• 1:24:57
  and she goes who's 64 and she flips it around and then sees
• 1:25:01
  the. Kramer on the back.
• 1:25:03
  See the Kramer And at that point, yeah.
• 1:25:06
  And at that point, then I dropped to a knee and I'm like,
• 1:25:10
  so I know you're a Packers fan and I'm a Bears fan, but
• 1:25:14
  hopefully the name on the back breaks.
• 1:25:16
  Together. And then yeah.
• 1:25:20
  Wow. Yeah, so then, so then I pulled
• 1:25:26
  my Eric Kramer jersey, 'cause I have two of them.
• 1:25:30
  I I pulled one out and put it on and we took pictures and stuff
• 1:25:34
  like that. So it was it was good.
• 1:25:35
  So when? He asked.
• 1:25:36
  Will you marry me too? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:25:38
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:25:39
  Yes, I did. The guys just assumed those
• 1:25:41
  parts. Like, yeah, yeah.
• 1:25:42
  Tell me more about the jerseys. Oh yeah.
• 1:25:44
  So Nicole level. With us, where we we talked
• 1:25:48
  about you started getting suspicious where before he
• 1:25:51
  actually dropped to his knee. Did you know?
• 1:25:53
  Oh, he's doing this. When he started kind of
• 1:25:58
  stuttering about the jerseys, he.
• 1:26:02
  Told that story like he was so smooth.
• 1:26:05
  It was smooth. He was stuttering.
• 1:26:08
  It, well, you weren't stuttering.
• 1:26:09
  It was more just like kind of drawn out, you know, like and I
• 1:26:14
  was like, OK, like, I know where you're going with this.
• 1:26:17
  And. Yeah, and.
• 1:26:19
  And you didn't save him at all, though.
• 1:26:20
  You're like, yeah, you're spitting it out, big boy.
• 1:26:24
  Like he said, all everything with the jersey and hopefully
• 1:26:28
  the name on the back can bring us together.
• 1:26:31
  And then it was like, long pause and then he gets out the ring.
• 1:26:35
  And then he asked, will you marry me?
• 1:26:36
  I was like, OK. See, Eric, Eric had this plan.
• 1:26:41
  He knew the line that the kicker was hopefully these jerseys can
• 1:26:45
  bring it. So he was really focused on
• 1:26:46
  saying that. And then he kind of lost track.
• 1:26:48
  I was like, oh crap, what am I supposed to do now?
• 1:26:49
  Oh yeah, I got to ask the question.
• 1:26:51
  I didn't. I didn't get the ring out.
• 1:26:54
  Well, that is awesome. I have seen those pictures and
• 1:26:57
  it is pretty stinking cool that how he did that and obviously
• 1:27:02
  he's real special with the the Kramers on each team and the
• 1:27:06
  rivalry of the Packers and the Bears.
• 1:27:07
  That's that's pretty cool who so who helped you come up with that
• 1:27:10
  idea Eric. I actually it it.
• 1:27:14
  I actually came up with it on my own, but I did.
• 1:27:17
  I did have a little help with. We're going to get into this a
• 1:27:21
  little later, I'm sure with one of the guys from my band.
• 1:27:26
  He had mentioned something about selling jerseys and like he had
• 1:27:31
  a guy who did custom jerseys and so who could order them for
• 1:27:36
  pretty cheap. And so I I ended up not going
• 1:27:38
  through that guy. I got it through someone else,
• 1:27:40
  but it was that gave me the initial idea.
• 1:27:43
  Well, we've got a few minutes left here.
• 1:27:45
  Let's transition. We've we've done the spoiler
• 1:27:47
  alert. We we got married.
• 1:27:49
  That was awesome. And you did a great job there
• 1:27:51
  with the with the engagement, of course, Eric.
• 1:27:54
  So you get married and you already kind of started where
• 1:27:58
  I'm going with this next question about when you're 2
• 1:28:01
  track coaches that are married. You know, there's a lot of
• 1:28:04
  outside things being in the profession of track and field.
• 1:28:07
  And and one of those things is sometimes you've got to pick up
• 1:28:11
  and move to other places that may not be down the road.
• 1:28:14
  You, you, you started it back early in your career when you
• 1:28:17
  went to Frostburg. You went all the way out to
• 1:28:18
  Maryland, but before you came back in and you know Eric,
• 1:28:22
  you've been to, I don't know, Ohio and and back and now Eric,
• 1:28:26
  you left UW Milwaukee to move down to Aurora.
• 1:28:31
  What were the concerns or were there any concerns?
• 1:28:34
  And you're still young, so are there concerns about, hey, how
• 1:28:38
  do we make, are we going to have to make a decision to move to
• 1:28:41
  Oregon for Eric's job or for Nicole's jobs?
• 1:28:46
  Yeah, I guess I'll mention that or I'll, I'll speak.
• 1:28:52
  Yeah, that's fine. We.
• 1:28:55
  It's tricky 'cause I think we both were, even though we both
• 1:28:59
  have been coaches for quite a few years, Eric, longer than I.
• 1:29:03
  I think we were both at different points in our career
• 1:29:07
  and just being at at different places as well.
• 1:29:09
  I mean, Eric being at AD one school, me being at AD 3 school,
• 1:29:13
  you know, me being a head coach, Eric being the associate head
• 1:29:17
  coach, full time assistant. I mean, there was just a lot of
• 1:29:20
  different things at play there, a lot of different elements that
• 1:29:23
  we just had to work out and decide what needed to be the
• 1:29:26
  priority. And Eric had mentioned it before
• 1:29:30
  that like, you know, college coaching is a calling for Eric.
• 1:29:34
  And while I also am extremely passionate about college
• 1:29:39
  coaching and distance running at the time, at least I think you
• 1:29:44
  know last fall, last summer, last fall when we were trying to
• 1:29:47
  work through all of this after having been married already, it
• 1:29:50
  was, it was just very apparent to me that like OK, Eric needs
• 1:29:54
  to be coaching. Like that is his thing.
• 1:29:57
  I mean, I love it too. I I want to stay as long as I
• 1:30:01
  can you know, in in this world as well.
• 1:30:03
  But Eric needs to be coaching And so you know Eric was
• 1:30:08
  applying for different jobs, mainly head coaching jobs I
• 1:30:11
  believe. And when he got offered the job
• 1:30:13
  at Wisconsin Lutheran, it was, I mean it, it was just a no
• 1:30:16
  brainer. Like this is Eric's first head
• 1:30:19
  coaching opportunity. You got to take it.
• 1:30:22
  I mean you you don't just get offered head coaching
• 1:30:24
  opportunities, you know, left and right.
• 1:30:26
  And so, you know, and I had already started my season at
• 1:30:31
  Aurora. So yeah, it was, it was really,
• 1:30:35
  really difficult. And last December I told my team
• 1:30:40
  that I was gonna be moving up to Milwaukee, and I didn't have
• 1:30:44
  anything lined up at the time. So I wanted to make sure they
• 1:30:47
  knew that that was that was one of the toughest days.
• 1:30:51
  You. Know you were you were leaving
• 1:30:52
  because of your marriage, not because of some other school or
• 1:30:55
  athletes somewhere else. So just like kind of in a
• 1:31:00
  similar way, not the exact same situation, but in a similar way
• 1:31:03
  Eric left UW Milwaukee. Yeah, that's.
• 1:31:06
  For for for me, in our relationship, while we were at
• 1:31:10
  the point where it kind of flipped, it was like, well, Eric
• 1:31:12
  got this head coaching opportunity and it's in
• 1:31:15
  Milwaukee. And instead of doing the
• 1:31:17
  distance dating thing again while we're married.
• 1:31:20
  Yeah, right. You know, we like just decided
• 1:31:23
  that it needed to be a priority for me to be up here and for us
• 1:31:26
  to start our first year of marriage together, you know, and
• 1:31:30
  and on the same foot and in the same place.
• 1:31:33
  And we did and we did the the distance part of it for a little
• 1:31:37
  while because I moved up here in September and Nicole finished
• 1:31:40
  out cross country at Aurora. So it was, you know, I was
• 1:31:44
  living up here and she was living down there and it was a
• 1:31:47
  lot of, well, if if she has a meet, a cross country meet in
• 1:31:51
  Wisconsin, she would drive separate and then stay here.
• 1:31:54
  If if it was a meet down there and I didn't have
• 1:31:57
  responsibilities up here, I would go down there.
• 1:31:59
  So it was we still got to see each other on weekends.
• 1:32:03
  We made that a priority for for that three months or whatever it
• 1:32:07
  was. But but at the same time and I
• 1:32:11
  was you know I told Nicole you know you can stay as long as you
• 1:32:14
  want. I'll, you know we'll make it
• 1:32:16
  work. And you know at the end of cross
• 1:32:18
  country it was just it was one of those things where she made
• 1:32:20
  the decision that it just we needed.
• 1:32:23
  To in such an informative time of a relationship too the the
• 1:32:26
  first several months of being married and really learning what
• 1:32:30
  it means to live in the give and take of the husband and a wife
• 1:32:35
  in a relationship there. Yeah, definitely.
• 1:32:39
  What? So most track coaches are
• 1:32:42
  married to teachers and professionals and things like
• 1:32:46
  that. Anybody but a track coach.
• 1:32:48
  What? What's the difference?
• 1:32:50
  And I know you don't have the experience of the opposite,
• 1:32:53
  being married to someone else, but what is it like having a
• 1:32:56
  track coach? A track coach comes home and
• 1:32:58
  wants to decompress or not talk about track.
• 1:33:01
  And so how do those, the stressful nights out of those
• 1:33:06
  workout between two track coaches who are married tag
• 1:33:13
  you're in? Yeah yeah it's it's one of those
• 1:33:19
  things where I've I've learned and and this was you know part
• 1:33:23
  of this was in our pre marriage class that we took together and
• 1:33:27
  and just from advice from other people that you know I'm you
• 1:33:33
  know you kind of heard through the this whole process that you
• 1:33:36
  know I'm I'm a small town farm guy I like to work with my
• 1:33:39
  hands. I'm a fixer I'm I'm the kind of
• 1:33:41
  guy who likes to fix things and so early on I had to learn.
• 1:33:46
  I think I've learned fairly quickly that that when Nicole
• 1:33:51
  comes home and she wants to talk about something that I just need
• 1:33:54
  to listen. I can't.
• 1:33:55
  Well, you know, here's here's what I would do.
• 1:33:58
  And I I I'm guilty of still doing that at times, but I feel
• 1:34:03
  like I've maybe done a little, Nicole.
• 1:34:05
  Better is yes is he? Correctly.
• 1:34:08
  If I'm wrong, OK. OK.
• 1:34:11
  Yes, we are. We are making progress there and
• 1:34:18
  I didn't mention this, but I I do.
• 1:34:21
  I am coaching now. It is basically once I got here
• 1:34:27
  I thought I could just let it go.
• 1:34:29
  Like let coaching go and try to find something else.
• 1:34:32
  Well, turns out in January I. Oh, you lasted a whole.
• 1:34:36
  You lasted a whole Christmas break.
• 1:34:38
  Oh. Man, yeah.
• 1:34:39
  Less, less than a month. It was brutal.
• 1:34:42
  It was rough. I mean, I I missed it a lot.
• 1:34:45
  And so I reached out to some area coaches and thankfully Sean
• 1:34:51
  Teelits at Carol got right back to me.
• 1:34:54
  And yeah, so I've been on staff with Carol since like middle of
• 1:35:00
  indoor season so like end of January, early February.
• 1:35:03
  So just in a in a volunteer role right now.
• 1:35:06
  But I'm just, I've been thrilled for just the opportunity to get
• 1:35:12
  connected and involved like through the indoor season with
• 1:35:14
  the athletes and you know, in this time just diving into some
• 1:35:18
  administrative type stuff and you know having some.
• 1:35:21
  Sense of purpose, there's certainly.
• 1:35:23
  Because not having any direction with coaching was not.
• 1:35:27
  Easy. There's certainly worse programs
• 1:35:28
  than coaches to fall into than Carol and Sean, so that's a
• 1:35:34
  great area to land at. Wow.
• 1:35:39
  Yeah, it's been really fun. I've I've been really thankful
• 1:35:42
  and it's a fun coaching staff right away.
• 1:35:44
  I mean we we just click. And yeah Sean is Sean is a great
• 1:35:49
  mentor and and leader and a lot of part time coaches on staff as
• 1:35:54
  well. So we all have, you know, just
• 1:35:57
  connected. Really.
• 1:35:57
  And yeah. And there's a little.
• 1:36:00
  Connection there for me as well with Delzer the Pete, Delzer the
• 1:36:05
  throws coach. There I coached.
• 1:36:07
  Together at UWM for a year when he was there and so so like it
• 1:36:11
  was it was one I didn't know Sean that well but through
• 1:36:14
  Nicole and then with the help of Pete as well it's been it's been
• 1:36:20
  fun getting to know their staff a little bit and getting to know
• 1:36:22
  Sean and yeah I got to say yeah even though yes we're coaching
• 1:36:27
  against each other and and everything and in the same
• 1:36:30
  Division. I I do have to say I appreciate
• 1:36:32
  Sean's help, that he's been a great guy.
• 1:36:35
  He's been a great guy helping me with getting things organized
• 1:36:39
  for you know my first year as a head coach, like giving me
• 1:36:43
  advice and. Yeah, he is the thing.
• 1:36:45
  So. It's been great.
• 1:36:46
  He is such a giver, man. Great, great guy.
• 1:36:50
  So coaching track and field is a pretty stressful profession.
• 1:36:56
  Not sure why any of you guys decide to do this, but it's
• 1:37:00
  definitely for love and passion of not just the sport but of the
• 1:37:03
  athletes that are involved in Chip.
• 1:37:06
  But it certainly is stressful when you've got A-Team of you
• 1:37:09
  know some people have teams over 100 large with their their track
• 1:37:13
  and field programs and cross country programs together.
• 1:37:17
  So you need some kind of stressor relief out there.
• 1:37:21
  What do you guys do outside of track and field to kind of have
• 1:37:24
  your own little me time or you know, stress, stress reducing
• 1:37:28
  time? Sure.
• 1:37:33
  Well, a lot of my most of my hobbies and things to decompress
• 1:37:38
  still relate back to coaching. So I I still run and I I did
• 1:37:46
  some triathlons a few years ago and so have still been kind of
• 1:37:50
  dabbling in that. I'm not a high mileage runner by
• 1:37:54
  any means, but I was able to do the Boston Marathon last spring.
• 1:38:00
  Yeah, and so just some of those competitive things right now.
• 1:38:05
  My big thing, especially during this, during this kind of a
• 1:38:08
  quarantine, I've been really emphasizing Strava to a lot of
• 1:38:14
  the team at Carroll and and my friends and stuff too, because
• 1:38:18
  Strava's just a fun way to connect.
• 1:38:21
  Workouts. You know, hold each.
• 1:38:23
  Other I'm gonna show me ignorance.
• 1:38:24
  Isn't that like a sugar substitute?
• 1:38:26
  What? What is Strava?
• 1:38:29
  Oh, OK. Yeah.
• 1:38:31
  That's stevia. Strava is an app where basically
• 1:38:36
  your GPS watch will upload all your runs, bikes or swims to
• 1:38:42
  this app and it's basically like a a social network for endurance
• 1:38:47
  athletes. So yeah, like you can follow
• 1:38:50
  Shalane Flanagan or you know and a lot of the the professional
• 1:38:54
  runners that that post their workouts and you know, but you
• 1:38:58
  can have team pages and you know I'm I'm on like a Calvin running
• 1:39:03
  or Calvin alumni running club. So you know some of my former
• 1:39:07
  teammates and teammates that are alums that I didn't even run
• 1:39:11
  with or anything around this. So yeah, also we did.
• 1:39:17
  I don't know if this is a hobby or not, but I'm a I'm a big dog
• 1:39:21
  lover. We don't have any dogs, but we
• 1:39:24
  did just recently. Adopted couple Guinea pigs,
• 1:39:27
  Guinea pigs. They're like tiny dogs.
• 1:39:30
  So that was, yeah. Now tell me your names.
• 1:39:34
  So famous. Track athletes.
• 1:39:37
  Well, I had two. I had. 2.
• 1:39:40
  Previously that I named the chaser.
• 1:39:43
  That's awesome. Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty biased,
• 1:39:46
  but with these two I decided I had to compromise a little bit
• 1:39:50
  with the hurdle side and you know, everything.
• 1:39:53
  So Eric, you can explain their names.
• 1:39:57
  OK, so so the first one, because Nicole ran in the Boston
• 1:40:03
  Marathon and you know we we decided that one of them was
• 1:40:09
  going to be named Boston. And then I was trying to come up
• 1:40:15
  with a name for the other one. And I I told Nicole, I said so
• 1:40:20
  Boston, that's also the name of the band.
• 1:40:23
  MM hmm. And so and I'm in a band, which
• 1:40:25
  we can talk about in a bit, but I I think we need to name, you
• 1:40:30
  know, whatever we end up naming the second one, it needs to also
• 1:40:33
  be the name of the band. And so we were thinking about
• 1:40:37
  it, and I said. Well, you know.
• 1:40:38
  Queen Harrison, she was she was a pretty good hurdler And so you
• 1:40:44
  know I'll, I'll name, I'll name her, you can have Boston and
• 1:40:47
  I'll name Queen And then and then we have two bands.
• 1:40:52
  Yeah, yeah, so they're they're fun.
• 1:40:56
  You know, we live in an apartment, so.
• 1:40:58
  Yeah, we can't. Really have dogs or anything.
• 1:41:01
  And especially, and I mean with the coaching life too.
• 1:41:03
  I mean. Can you can you still put a
• 1:41:05
  leash on a Guinea pig and walk it?
• 1:41:07
  Or no? I don't know much about Guinea
• 1:41:08
  pigs, OK? I.
• 1:41:12
  I want to. See social media pictures of you
• 1:41:15
  walking Boston and Queen. All right, that's that's your
• 1:41:17
  sign. That's your challenge from this
• 1:41:19
  podcast. So this is a good, good segue
• 1:41:22
  'cause I feel like I know what your stress relief hobby
• 1:41:27
  activity outside of track and field is.
• 1:41:29
  Eric. Yeah.
• 1:41:33
  So I, I I've already mentioned a couple times.
• 1:41:36
  I'm also in a band. I met these guys.
• 1:41:39
  It was the the spring of the winter.
• 1:41:44
  It was January of 2013. And it's funny, I I actually
• 1:41:49
  went back and I saw a tweet that I had posted of when I was
• 1:41:53
  meeting these guys and I I copied that tweet and sent it to
• 1:41:57
  them and I said Oh my goodness what was I thinking?
• 1:42:00
  And and they're like, yeah, so did did you get the gig?
• 1:42:05
  But, but great bunch of guys I've, I have been involved with
• 1:42:12
  them since then. They have been playing music
• 1:42:15
  together in some aspect either in other bands that they've had
• 1:42:18
  or whatever. Wow, They've been making music
• 1:42:20
  for over 20 years. Yeah, So I mean they're it's
• 1:42:24
  funny. The two lead guitarists I'm
• 1:42:28
  going to name drop them Jerry Smith and Mike Griffin.
• 1:42:32
  They are both great guitarists, but they are also about the same
• 1:42:37
  age as my parents. And then our our drummer Jeff
• 1:42:45
  Trunk he's in his I believe he's in his early 50s late 40s and
• 1:42:51
  then Mike Jozwiak is our bass player and he's I believe he's
• 1:42:59
  in his late 40s. So I'm the young guy and and
• 1:43:04
  initially I was the the lead singer and then when I ended up
• 1:43:08
  leaving UWM to to move down to Aurora and be closer to that
• 1:43:13
  call ended up having to quit the.
• 1:43:16
  Band. And.
• 1:43:17
  You're breaking up the band Yoko.
• 1:43:20
  Alright, no. So, so they they were so
• 1:43:25
  supportive and completely understood and and so then when
• 1:43:30
  I got the job at Wisconsin Lutheran, I didn't tell them
• 1:43:34
  that I got the job and because I knew every Monday where they'd
• 1:43:40
  met. This sounds kind of dinner.
• 1:43:42
  Before they would go what you're about.
• 1:43:43
  To say. Yeah, so, so.
• 1:43:48
  I I did not tell them and the the thing was they they had had
• 1:43:54
  a lead singer before he ended up quitting because he just needed
• 1:43:58
  to spend more time with his family and so and he was still
• 1:44:04
  around whenever I was lead singer but he didn't he didn't
• 1:44:08
  do anything as far as in the band.
• 1:44:09
  He would show up to some gigs and would hang out and he'd do a
• 1:44:12
  song or two here and there, but great supporter of the band.
• 1:44:16
  But I, God bless him, he did a great job of, you know, keeping
• 1:44:19
  his distance enough that I didn't feel intimidated or
• 1:44:22
  anything. And then when I left, he
• 1:44:25
  actually came back. And so I I show up and I'm like,
• 1:44:31
  so guys, what's going on? And like, well, what are you
• 1:44:33
  doing in town? I was like, you know, I just got
• 1:44:36
  a job up here and they're like, wait, what?
• 1:44:39
  And so, you know, I had to have the discussion with Brian.
• 1:44:44
  But Brian and I, we, we had a great discussion about, you
• 1:44:47
  know, OK, here's the deal, You're the lead singer.
• 1:44:50
  Brian, I'm coming back into this.
• 1:44:52
  I would love to be a part of the band still.
• 1:44:55
  Are you OK with me doing background vocals and
• 1:45:00
  potentially doing some leads on some songs And he's like, heck
• 1:45:04
  yeah man, let's do this. So he, you know, he's more of a
• 1:45:08
  rock'n'roll kind of guy like punk rock, heavy rock, that kind
• 1:45:13
  of thing. Whereas I'm more of a country
• 1:45:17
  classic rock kind of guy with our vocal styles and so, So it's
• 1:45:23
  been kind of cool we've we've balanced out trading off who's
• 1:45:26
  doing leads on what songs based on what genre they're in.
• 1:45:29
  And I'd like to say we do everything from Johnny.
• 1:45:32
  Yeah, I was expecting a much more rock'n'roll.
• 1:45:34
  It's a good man. Story there that you guys got
• 1:45:36
  into a fight and but no, you guys worked it out.
• 1:45:40
  Well, there's some there. There is some background.
• 1:45:43
  Yeah, there is some background on some history.
• 1:45:45
  Now you never told us. For those who want to go Google
• 1:45:50
  and see and you know here, what's the name of the band?
• 1:45:53
  Yeah, the band's name is Wasted Talent.
• 1:45:59
  And if you're going to look at that on Facebook, it's Wasted
• 1:46:01
  Talent, right? Johnny Cash to the Foo Fighters.
• 1:46:04
  So. And everything in between so.
• 1:46:07
  Yeah, and everything in. Between Spoiler alert, I'm a
• 1:46:09
  huge Vanilla Ice fan. Any Vanilla Ice covers?
• 1:46:13
  Oh, that. Really.
• 1:46:14
  Oh no. There is a version of Ice Ice
• 1:46:17
  Baby done in kind of full country type melody that is
• 1:46:22
  actually really awesome. Have you not heard that version?
• 1:46:25
  I'm going to send it to you. It's it's really amazing that I
• 1:46:29
  want to learn how to play the guitar just so I can play this
• 1:46:31
  version of Ice. Ice baby, it's it's it's
• 1:46:35
  awesome. Well, I know you've got to run
• 1:46:38
  to a meeting. Oh.
• 1:46:42
  I actually do not keep going. So we're we're good so.
• 1:46:48
  That's great, what with this rock'n'roll lifestyle on Monday
• 1:46:53
  nights, Nicole, is that what drew you to Eric was, you know,
• 1:46:57
  being a being a the data, a musician, a lead singer?
• 1:47:02
  Oh yeah, you know, you can. You can it.
• 1:47:10
  Was, you know, the sarcasm. It was it was attractive
• 1:47:14
  definitely. You know, like oh, he's a he's a
• 1:47:17
  coach and a rock star. Wow.
• 1:47:19
  Like, no, it initially I was like wow that's really cool.
• 1:47:24
  He he sings And you know we did some we went to some karaoke I
• 1:47:30
  think for yeah that first summer especially.
• 1:47:32
  And yeah he has a very he's a really, really good singer.
• 1:47:37
  He has a very good voice. He sang in our.
• 1:47:39
  Wedding a few. Different songs that was, that
• 1:47:42
  was, yeah. It was at the reception, not in
• 1:47:46
  in the wedding. Yeah, so yeah, no, he's a great
• 1:47:48
  singer. So I love hearing him sing.
• 1:47:51
  But yeah, I mean it's not my passion.
• 1:47:55
  But hey, I'm happy that he likes.
• 1:47:59
  I know my he'll have to tell the he does have he meets with the
• 1:48:05
  guys Monday nights right now just through Zoom.
• 1:48:09
  So I was thinking, he's gonna have to tell them about.
• 1:48:12
  Yeah. This podcast and potentially,
• 1:48:15
  yeah. Oh yeah, I'm gonna.
• 1:48:16
  Mention it, Mike. Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:48:17
  Absolutely. Yeah.
• 1:48:17
  Yeah. I was gonna ask, you know, I I
• 1:48:22
  tend to forget the world that we live in today with the the
• 1:48:26
  quarantine and things like that. I was gonna ask.
• 1:48:29
  So you got more time to be with the band, but you guys can't
• 1:48:32
  even be together during this time, Yeah?
• 1:48:36
  Right. Yeah, we do, We do.
• 1:48:39
  We do our meetings every Monday still.
• 1:48:41
  So we we just get on and talk about.
• 1:48:45
  Different things. We need a lot of distractions
• 1:48:47
  now unfortunately. So that's that's really good.
• 1:48:50
  Well, I do want to wrap this up, but before we end, I would like
• 1:48:54
  to hear from you guys. I'll put you on the spot here
• 1:48:56
  just a little bit as you think about other married couples and
• 1:49:00
  there are some really fantastic married track and field coaches
• 1:49:05
  around there. They're not the the norm, but
• 1:49:08
  they are, they are and certainly there are coaches who have a
• 1:49:12
  spouse, whether a wife or a husband.
• 1:49:15
  What advice would you give as it relates to two people in pretty
• 1:49:19
  high stressful jobs that are very common that have
• 1:49:23
  frustrations? What advice would you give to?
• 1:49:26
  I know you're newlyweds, so this is, like I said, putting you on
• 1:49:29
  the spot, but what advice would you give the other married
• 1:49:31
  couples and and engaged couples out there?
• 1:49:39
  Nicole you. Want to go for sure I.
• 1:49:44
  Or if you. Or if you need time, yeah, go
• 1:49:46
  ahead. OK.
• 1:49:50
  One of the great things you know with I mentioned Paul Sargent,
• 1:49:55
  you know, having worked under him when I was at Franklin and
• 1:49:58
  now he's, you know, distributor for you guys with Gil Sergeant
• 1:50:02
  Distribution. Go check.
• 1:50:04
  It out you earned your money from Paul.
• 1:50:07
  Here's my plug for him, but no, one of the things that he taught
• 1:50:15
  me and I just I loved about his coaching style.
• 1:50:19
  He always had a thing that he said where you know, our
• 1:50:22
  priorities are going to be excellence through academics and
• 1:50:25
  athletics or attitude, academics and athletics.
• 1:50:28
  And I kind of took it to another level and I what I use now at
• 1:50:34
  Wisconsin Lutheran. But what I've used for the past
• 1:50:37
  few years for myself is my priority list.
• 1:50:41
  And and again, it also pulls it off of Bill Mossel's.
• 1:50:44
  You know, it's like us coaches. We never have anything original.
• 1:50:47
  We steal from everyone else. But you know Bill always had his
• 1:50:51
  talk to come to Jesus meetings. If your priorities weren't in
• 1:50:54
  the right place. Well, my priorities are faith,
• 1:50:57
  family, academics and athletics and.
• 1:51:00
  And in that order. And so I tell every recruit.
• 1:51:03
  I tell every, you know, every athlete that I have that this is
• 1:51:07
  what my priorities are and this is what the priorities of this
• 1:51:10
  program are gonna be. And so I've really, it's
• 1:51:16
  difficult. It's not easy to do that because
• 1:51:19
  there's a lot of times where, hey, I need to make these
• 1:51:22
  recruiting calls and I need to, I need to get this ready for the
• 1:51:24
  team and I need to do this and I need to do that for the team
• 1:51:28
  where it's easy to ignore your spouse or ignore, you know, the
• 1:51:33
  family part of it or even the faith part of it.
• 1:51:35
  So for me that was, you know, something that I really take to
• 1:51:41
  heart and I really apply to my life is having that priorities
• 1:51:46
  in the right place. There's a time where, yes, track
• 1:51:48
  has to be very important and you know, the athletic side of
• 1:51:52
  things has to be in the forefront.
• 1:51:55
  But at the same time you can't neglect the faith and the family
• 1:51:59
  portion in in my life. And so that's something that I
• 1:52:04
  think is as a coach, whether you're married to another coach
• 1:52:08
  or not. That's something that's really
• 1:52:10
  important, that one of my biggest and I don't want to talk
• 1:52:14
  poorly about anyone. But one of the worst pieces of
• 1:52:18
  advice I heard from someone one time was that Oh yeah, my spouse
• 1:52:22
  just knows that, you know, track and field comes first, our
• 1:52:25
  marriage comes second. I think that's the worst advice
• 1:52:28
  possible that that you, you know, marriage is supposed to be
• 1:52:33
  about you and the other person 1st and God first, marriage
• 1:52:38
  second. Everything else is third and
• 1:52:41
  because when you retire, you're still with that person when when
• 1:52:46
  the kids go to grow up, coach, you're still with most.
• 1:52:50
  Every season is for your reason. Speaking of growth, you got to
• 1:52:54
  prep, carry the vote for the handoff, stay in the zone when
• 1:53:00
  you packing for the vote. There's more than one way you
• 1:53:09
  could without a mentor. Years of experience, you could
• 1:53:13
  be invent those years. Every plans got a standard to
• 1:53:16
  live up to. And the price sacrifice can you
• 1:53:18
  give up you. It's a choice and the fight not
• 1:53:20
  a win or lose. It's not a boy but the vice
• 1:53:23
  y'all can make more moves. It's not about how to.
• 1:53:25
  It's all about why you don't know till you know who you are
• 1:53:28
  inside.