Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / The Paul Finebaum Interview: Alabama’s Past, Present & Uncertain Future

Transcript

The Paul Finebaum Interview: Alabama’s Past, Present & Uncertain Future · The Chuck ToddCast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello there and welcome to our third episode of our
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: deep dive into the history of the Alabama football program.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: In the first two episodes, J.A. and I chronicled what
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: is arguably the most successful program in the history of
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: college football.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Other than Yale, that is.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: That's right. And apologies to our friends in South Bend.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: But that's right, J.A. Yale actually has won more national
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: championships than Alabama. But they have not won a national
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: title since 1927 when the Eli went seven and one
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: and had Big wins over Princeton, Dartmouth, and Army. Enough said.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Let your mic drop.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Well, our guest today is Paul Feinbaum, and he wasn't
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: around during Yale's glory days, but if you want to
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: know anything about Alabama football or the SEC in general,
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: then Paul is the person to see. Known as the
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: voice of the SEC, Feinbaum joined ESPN in August 2013
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: as the host of the Paul Feinbaum Show, a four-hour
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: daily radio program that's simulcast on the SEC network. Proud
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: to join you. At ESPN, Feinbaum was host of the
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Paul Feinbaum Radio Network and a columnist and investigative reporter
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: for newspapers in Alabama.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: I have to tell you, look, what you're about to hear,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: we taped beforehand. And look, you know, we could have
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: gotten some former players. We could have gotten some former coaches.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: And we thought about that. But honestly, I think there
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: is no better chronicler, historian, in the modern era to
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: speak to about Alabama football than Paul Feinbaum. And, and
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: after the interview, I feel even better about it.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: Not just Alabama football, but, but Alabama, right. And, and
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: knowing all the nature that comes with that, as, as
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: he mentioned, he was coming to us just a few
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: blocks or a few minutes away from the Birmingham church that,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: that was bombed in the 1960s. And, and, you know,
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: as he said, there's some certain inescapable facts that, that
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: surround you when you're in Alabama and, and, The interview
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: doesn't shy from those. He might come off as a
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Brian apologist, but I feel like he's questioned everything on
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: every side, and he's arrived at this. I don't think
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: he just was born into this and feels defensive. I
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: think he took that journalistic approach of questioning, and that's
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: what's got him to this place.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Well, look, and in fairness to Paul, I mean, look,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: I spend a lot of time in that region of
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: the country myself, and Alabamians don't hide from it.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: It is everywhere. The civil rights legacy and the civil
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: rights history and frankly, the civil rights shame.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: Right. Of there.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: It's all there. And in many ways, Alabama embraces it
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: in ways that you frankly wish more of the South did.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Let's be honest. I mean, you know, and you go
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: to a rest stop in Alabama and the first pamphlet,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: you know, for the tourist pamphlet is the is, you know,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: do your own civil rights tour of Alabama. That's the
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: chief thing they want to promote. That doesn't strike me
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: as a state that wants to hide from its history.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: I'll give them that.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it can. I noticed when I did go to
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: the Civil Rights Museum in Birmingham that the part of
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: the I Have a Dream speech where he talks about
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: Alabama with its vicious racists and Mississippi sweltering in the
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: heat of oppression. That part was cut out. I actually
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: listened to it again. I was like, wait, did I
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: not hear it? Like they kind of snipped that part out.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: But again, the fact that the museum exists, the fact that,
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: you know, you can put your hands on the jail
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: cell where Martin Luther King wrote his famous letter. I
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: does speak to the dress. And it was interesting that
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: that Paul Feinbaum kind of took us to that. to
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: converse on those things. I, he did just when I
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: thought that maybe we, you know, focus a little too
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: much on that in our, in our episodes earlier as
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: outsiders from Alabama, but the fact that he was the
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: one that brings it up in this interview, not us,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: I think does speak to the, the presence.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: And be sure to listen all the way through because he,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: he leaves us with a hot take that I promise you.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: I think many of you will hope becomes freezing cold.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: How's that for a tease?
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: Jay. Absolutely. Spoken like a true professional. All right, let's
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: get into it with Paul Feinbaum. Paul Feinbaum, thanks for
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: joining us.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: It is my pleasure. Thank you, guys.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Great to have you, Paul.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: So we talk a lot about on this podcast, we
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: quote the movie Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, when the
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: legend becomes back print the legend. So you've talked to
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: generations of Alabama fans who lived through Bear Bryant's dynasty,
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: lived through a good portion of yourself. What is the
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: legend about Bear Bryant that you think is actually true,
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: and what's the legend that is not fact? Well, he– I.
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: Don't think he really wrestled the bear, which is allegedly
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: how he got his name. And the other– the most–
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: I had a guy call me on our show the
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: other day, and, of course, he got the team wrong.
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: He said Mississippi State. He said when Bryant was at
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: Mississippi State, which– he, uh, he left because he had
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: a spat with the, with the basketball coach. The famous
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: story is that when Bryant was at Kentucky, uh, that, uh,
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: he won the sec football championship and Adolph Rupp, uh,
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: won the basketball championship and they gave Bryant a Zippo
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: lighter and gave her up a brand new Mustang convertible.
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: And Brian got mad and left. I, I have checked
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: this story out. Uh, and, uh, Bryant's grandson told me
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: it is 100% not true. The two are actually really
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: good friends, except Bryant was smart enough to realize there
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: was a lot more money in Texas to go to
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: Texas A & M. All money, Trump, Bourbon, and Thoroughbred
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: Horsing money. So that's why he went to Texas A & M.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: What's the level of credit, Bear Bryant, when it comes
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: to integrating Alabama football? Because you can, I think, good
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: people could argue both sides. He was slow or you
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: know what? It was the only way it was going
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: to happen was the way he went about it. What
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: say you?
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: Chuck, I think he was deliberate. And I'll tell you
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: one or two quick stories. Hal Raines, the former editor
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: of the New York Times, argued with me one day
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: that he was way too slow, that he missed the moment.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: I've had friends of Brian argue that he tried to
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: do it earlier. um and failed he brought a couple
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: young players in and they did not work out and
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: brian was smart enough this is what they told me
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: that he did not want it to be a bus
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: now let me move ahead the first two uh that
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: the first two players that integrated were wilbur jackson and
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: john mitchell uh john mitchell i sat in his house
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: a number of years ago uh and he told me
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: the story of when uh about how he got to
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: alabama uh it was it was later of course but
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: he uh He was from Mobile, Alabama. He played in a,
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: but for whatever reason, he went to a junior college
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: in Arizona.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: This is the one that John McKay, right? Yeah, we
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: talked about.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: This in our- So your audience has heard this story,
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: but I want to tell you what Mitchell told me
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: when Brian got to his house. So a judge called Bryant,
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: as you probably have already discussed, and said, you've got
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: to get down here. John McKay is about to sign
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: this guy. So Bryant got on a plane, flew, and
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: he walked into John Mitchell's house. And Mrs. Mitchell— now, this
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: is 1970 in Mobile, Alabama.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Mrs.
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: Mitchell wouldn't speak to him. And John— John finally called
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: his mother aside. He said, listen, this is... I mean,
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: the whole street's outside. The neighborhood's outside, you know, watching
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: to see what's going on here. She said, well, I'm
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: going to give him a piece of my mind. So
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: John Mitchell's mother berated Paul William Bryant for why he
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: was so slow to integrate. And he told her the
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: story that I've been attempting to tell you. And she
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: said he... John told me his mother was so charmed. Again,
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: I grew up in that era, so I can imagine
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: what she said to him. He finally went there, and
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: the two were friends until the day Bryant died. But
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: the point is that I think he was a savvy guy.
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: He understood the politics of the moment. Um, I don't
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: need to tell anybody what an absolutely hard place I
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: am sitting in downtown Birmingham, Alabama right now, no more than, uh,
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: six blocks away from the 16th street Baptist church. So
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: you can't, you can't escape it in this community, but,
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: but I, I, I will side with Brian. Um, and
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: you know, the, the, the, the whole, the whole concept about,
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: and I'm, I mean, you talk about this too, about the, the, the,
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: the two games was Southern Cal. There's so much, there's
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: so much legend and there's so much truth. Um, and
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: I'll just leave it there. Whatever you guys want to
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: question me, I'll, I'll give you, I'll give you my
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: best judgment.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Well, I, I'm just amazed Paul at, given the power dynamic, right?
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: In 1970s, you mentioned, and this is Paul Bryant, the bear,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: that this woman is, you know, given the rundown, dude,
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: giving him a strong piece of her mind. And I
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: think it says something that he didn't just walk right out, right? And,
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: you know, again, given the status and the caste system,
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: you could even call it then, to sit there and
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: absorb that and to still welcome her son and still
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: be interested in, What do you think that says? And
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: what do you think that that element tells us?
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: I think it says that Coach Bryant understood the times.
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: I've heard two versions of this story. I tend to
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: believe the Bryant version. I've had George Wallace jinxed. tell
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: me before that.
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, you talk to George Wallace Jr. and you
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: thought his father was part of the Emancipation Proclamation. But Chuck,
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: you know how this goes. You spend enough time in D.C.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: But Wallace Jr. once argued with me that it was
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: all politics, that his father was not a racist. And
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: the other side... The Bryant family argues that he was
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: a racist. Bryant could not stand him. He was the
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: governor of the state, though. He had to deal with him.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: And in Alabama, that's how you got things done. But
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: I am partial to Bryant on this story because I
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: genuinely believe, because there were a couple of, I don't
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: remember who the players were, but he would have done
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: it earlier if he could have.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Let's transition to the Saban era and, and let's begin
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: with why did, where, why did Saban succeed where it
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: seemed like a parade of really good resumes.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Coaching resumes would come in, get hired and just fall
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: on their face. Why did Saban succeed where, uh, a
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: slew of other coaches, um, failed essentially outside of, uh,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: outside of the, uh, the 92 season.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: Chuck, the only coach who had any real success was
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: Gene Stallings, who was literally Bear Bryant 2.0. I mean,
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: he looked like him. He sounded like him.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: He did look like him, yeah.
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: The problem, and of course, he was at Junction. He
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: was part, he was one of Bryant's boys at Texas
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: A & M. The problem with every single coach, and
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: I'll tell you how Saban succeeded, was they got caught
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: up in this Alabama mafia, which, by the way, Bryant's
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: son was part of, uh, that controlled every aspect of
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: every coach. And the athletic director was usually a figurehead.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: It's an old story in college football. Saban came in.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: I was just going to say, I feel like you're
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: describing Auburn football to me.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: But that's another story.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: Uh, Saban, uh, initially, uh, turned the job down because
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: they want, they wanted a commitment. And, uh, he said, no,
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: then they turned to Steve Spurge, interestingly enough. Springer thought
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: about it and then parlayed that to a new deal.
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: He had just gotten to South Carolina. And then Malmore,
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: the story is he went down after the Dolphin season
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: ended and he spent two days there. But once Saban
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: took the job, though, he knew he had to do
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: one thing. Total control. And that was control of not
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: only the athletic department, but of the media. This doesn't
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: sound familiar, does it? One man wanted total control. And
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: he he started bringing the media in like Noah's Ark.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: He had four or five. Go ahead, Chuck, if you
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: want to interrupt. No, no, no.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Finish that. I have one follow-up on this.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: He brought in the media in four or five different sections.
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: I was left out of this, by the way, because
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: he was saving me for a one-on-one meeting later. But
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: I'll tell you what he told. It doesn't matter because
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: he said the same thing to every group. These are
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: sports writers and broadcasters, however many, 15, 20. He basically
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: told them, he said, I will help you in any way.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: I will give you access to and I don't know how,
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: I guess this is a podcast. I could just quote
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: him verbatim if that's okay. But he said, let me
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: tell you one thing. If one of you come to
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: one of my practices, and violate any of my rules.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: And he pointed to one guy up there. He said,
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: I will fucking lock you out for the rest of
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: your life. You will never get near this program again.
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: So do you guys want to play ball or not?
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: And every one of them, like puppy dogs, nodded their head.
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: And that was the next 17 years of the media
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: and Nick Saban.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: I wanted to follow up before we go deeper into
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: the Saban era, which I know J.A. wants to in
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: a second. The Bobby Bowden story Non-hire. It was close. And,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: you know, my wife's a Florida State board member, so
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: I know versions of these stories from the Florida State
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: end of things. I mean, that to me is one
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: of the more interesting sliding doors that didn't happen. How
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: close was Bobby to becoming the Alabama coach?
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: I mean, sometimes Chuck, as you know, you you've read,
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: and sometimes you actually covered the story and talk to
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: the particulars, including Bobby Balvin. So you do know, um,
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: I covered the story and here's what happened. Uh, They
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: brought in a number. Bowden was already in Birmingham coaching
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: whatever the name of the bowl game was there. It
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: was significant because that was the last time he didn't
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: go to a New Year's Day bowl for about 15 years.
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: So the coach had been Ray Perkins. He succeeded Brian.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: They offered Bowden a couple of times, but this was
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: the most memorable. So they bring him in and literally
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: interview him for the job. And they interviewed a couple
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: other people. And it got out that Bowden was going
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: to get the job. But some of the trustees were unhappy.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: They didn't like the way he interviewed. And at 1130,
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: whatever the day was that Miami played, I think it
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: was Miami played Penn State for the national championship. You
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: could probably hear it. It was January.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: That'd be January 2nd, 1987, a day that one of
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: my various days that live in.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: I am literally I'm on the phone with my best
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: source who's on the board of trustees. And I said,
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: so what's the deal, Frank? He said, we're going to
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: move on from Bowdoin. I said, you're moving on from Bowdoin?
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: He said, yeah. And this is a quote that I
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: will never forget as long as I live. He said,
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: we like him, of course. He was born in Birmingham.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: He went to Alabama briefly. But we just feel like
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: January 2nd, 1987, he's too old and just has too
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: much baggage. Born a trustee, my book. Brent Bromberg is
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: his name. I mean, at this point, it doesn't really matter.
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: He's long gone. He's a great man.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: I don't mean to laugh.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: Don't worry the next day. And you're going to have
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: to help me. I think it was 14 or 15
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: straight years that Florida State did not finish outside the
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: top five and won two national championships. And meanwhile, Alabama
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: goes through a couple of good years with Gene Stallings
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: and Mike Shula and Mike DeBoer. But anyway, they went
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: back to Baltimore. a couple years later after Curry, but
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: he wanted nothing to do with it at the time.
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, he had learned his lesson. I'm not dealing
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: with you crazy people.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So, Paul, in hindsight, yeah, Saban seems like the
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: perfect match for Alabama, right? And obviously it worked out
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: so well. But at the time, he's coming in, he's
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: not a Southerner. He doesn't sound the part of an
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: Alabama coach. He doesn't necessarily look the part of an
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: Alabama coach with that hair, right? So how– How did
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: the transition, the adaptation to Saban go? And then ultimately,
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: why do you think it worked?
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: Well, he struggled his first year. But one thing Saban
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: said at the very beginning, he says, and he said,
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: we are going to dominate. We are going to win. And,
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: you know, he had won at LSU, obviously, probably should
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: have won two national championships and left Les Miles at
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: somebody who will never be inducted into the College Football
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: Hall of Fame, another team that won the national championship.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: But he just, part of it was he had an
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: amazing staff. On that first staff, by the way, was
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: Kurt Cignetti. If you go through his staff, you will
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: see an endless stream of successful coaches.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Well, the national title game last year, two Saban assistants, right?
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: Exactly. And he, he, he, I don't think he ever
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: really thought he would be there that long, and obviously
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: nobody else did either. But it converged with a point
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: in his life where he was getting a little bit older.
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: He had never really made money. Saban got in trouble
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: in Louisiana. You don't see this reported very often. He
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: got involved in some oil and gas deals that went bust.
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: He didn't have money. And when you're the Alabama coach
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: and you start winning quickly, you start finding deals and
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: start making money. I mean, today he owns a couple
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: of Mercedes dealerships, which aren't easy to get. So I
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: think his wife became very comfortable. She became the first
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: lady of Alabama football. And My fantasy was always that
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: LSU would try to hire Saban after Les Miles almost
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: went to Michigan one time. But it never happened. Imagine
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: Saban going to Alabama and then leaving to go back
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: to LSU. It was a wet dream of mine. But
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: after a while, he kept getting offers. But I think
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: he realized, I'm in Alabama. I think his heart was
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: stolen a little bit. At LSU, he loved the culture
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: down there. He loved everything about it. But finally, I mean,
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: there was a point, I think, in 2012, I think
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: it was a Wall Street Journal article or something, where Mrs.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: Saban complained that I don't think they appreciate us here.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: So he played that card. He almost went to town.
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: in 2013 when they fired Mack Brown. But he told
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: me afterwards that he would have probably taken the job,
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: but he did not want to have to answer to
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: 15 different oil tycoon billionaires. He hadn't made it to Alabama.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: He didn't have to answer to anyone.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. Look, every successful college football program
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: has to have a financial base, right? Texas, it's obvious.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: It's oil and gas money. We've seen it for a
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: variety of Texas schools over the years where that's where
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: their source of resources has come from. What is the
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: source of resource in Alabama? What is it that continues? Because,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: you know, if you didn't know college football, you'd be like, huh,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: how does a team based in Tuscaloosa Stay a powerhouse
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: in college football. I mean, this is a powerhouse. This
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: is a financial juggernaut. How did they do it?
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: The powerhouse has always been the tradition. The one thing
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: about Alabama fans, Chuck, it didn't matter whether they were
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: coming off of the national championship or under Mike Schiller
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: coming off of a foreign position. season, they always believed
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: that they were going to win again. I mean, listen,
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: I've never seen anything quite like the meeting of the
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: two fan bases at the 1992 Sugar Bowl. Miami tried
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: to win three straight. Alabama really, they believed they could win.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: because they're Alabama. And listen, I'm the worst one. I
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: sat there on ESPN last year on January 1st, and said,
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: I really think Alabama's going to beat Indiana. I mean,
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: everybody has their freezing cold takes, but You're around these
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: people for so long, you start to believe it. Never again,
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: by the way, after that 35-point loss. That cured me
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: of my Alabama disease. But I think that was always it.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: And Saban was a master. I mean, Saban was able
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: to coalesce all of these wealthy people, not billionaires. There's
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: only two billionaires in the entire state of Alabama, and
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: they're both Auburn fans.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: I was just going to say, Tim Cook's one of them, right?
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: That's the Auburn.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they're not. Alabama has a lot of wealthy, but
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: he co-opted these wealthy people into using whatever resources they could,
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: mostly private planes. I mean, Saban signed Julian Sam, who's
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: now one of the best quarterbacks in the country from
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: Ohio State, out of California. I promise you, he wasn't
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: changing planes in Atlanta, flying Delta out there. And if
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: you look at what a private plane from Alabama Tuscaloosa
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: to LA, it's a $ 50, 000 to $ 100, 000 proposition because the
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: school plane, they only have like two school planes. Saban
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: could take a school plane down to a Chick-fil-A because
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: everybody wanted to be his friend. And Again, he won quickly, too.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: I mean, he won the first national championship in his
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: third year.
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: Then he wins again in 11, 12, should have won
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: in 13. The famous kick six play. I mean, he
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: would have beaten Florida State that year with Jameis Winston.
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: And then, you know, he managed to get every other
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: year or two a champion. I mean, I sat there
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: at national championships. blasting Saban for losing a national championship game.
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: I mean, that's how the, there have really been an
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: expectation like that. I mean, you know, the Yankees don't
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: think they're going to win. They're going to win every year.
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: You know, they can't find their way, you know, to
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: the mound. Other programs, the Dallas Cowboys, same thing, but,
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: but Alabama managed to start winning and winning every year
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: or every other year.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Something that's interesting is that you mentioned Saban, and Alabama
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: has money. There's rich people, but there's not billionaire class.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: As we see professional sports increasingly become the province of
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: the ultra wealthy, right? $ 12 billion franchise valuations, $ 6 billion,
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: $ 10 billion franchise valuations. There's a select amount of people
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: that can really play and invest at that level. So
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: as college sports are following the model, increasingly becoming professionalized,
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: do you think Alabama will be able to keep pace
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: We see Larry Ellison funding a quarterback at Michigan, for example, right?
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: If there's not that type of money to fund the
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: programs in Alabama, will the Crimson Tide be able to
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: keep pace?
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: I think it will be very difficult. And Saban was
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: slow to NIL. He missed a year. I mean, he
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: did not want to get, I mean, to this day,
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: Nick Saban describes NIL as name, image, and likeness. Kind
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: of like your grandfather, you know, not refusing to say
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: some acronym.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Is this the Jimbo Fisher feud that year?
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: I remember that.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: It's worth pointing out, but Jimbo Fisher just goes out
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: and just literally pillages one of the greatest recruiting classes
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: of all time, which enabled him to get a $ 76
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: million buyout. And Saban went ballistic. about a month before
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: he erupted on Jimbo Fisher. And by the way, it
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: was all by design. He was speaking to boosters.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: I was just going to say, it felt like he
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: wasn't mad at Jimbo. He was like, hello, donors. Write
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: a check, buddy.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: In the room. Hey, you better pay up. He called
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: me about four to six weeks before that. He said,
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: what are we going to do about NIL? Now, by
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: the way, I've always been in favor of NIL. So
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: I said, well, I don't know. He said, well, I'm
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: thinking about saying something. He said, what do you think?
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: For a long time, Saban acted like I was his
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: media advisor. Never one time took my advice, but he
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: was smart enough to co-op a few people. He could
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: have been a great politician.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: My friend Joe Manchin wants to run him.
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: I know that. I suggested he should run last year
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: for the Senate, but I think that was beneath him
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: to be one of 100.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: I'm still waiting for your candidacy, Paul.
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: People ask me, not to get off the set, they're
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: asking me, you moved back to Alabama to run for...
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: I said, no, I wanted Nick Saban to be the senator.
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: I decided not to run. There'll be another podcast. But
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: the point is, Chuck, he.
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: So he called me one day and I said, well,
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: I think you ought to pick a big forum to go.
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: And he said, well, you know, I'm right. And I
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: just said, coach, I don't know. I just finally got
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: off the phone with him. He calls Stephen A. Smith
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: after he hangs up the phone with me. He goes, hey, Stephen,
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: we need your help on NIL. He said, I thought
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: you were friends with Feinbaum. I said, I've lost Feinbaum.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: It was like, you know, the moments that Walter Cronkite
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: turned on Vietnam, you know, when you lose pride. I mean,
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: I'm like going, Steve Rene Langer told me that. That's
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: how he tried to manipulate. Now, Steve Rene the next day,
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: of course, whatever, he goes on and derails about NIL.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: But the point was, Steve didn't miss the boat. His program,
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: because he got into the playoffs his final year in
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: a game against Michigan and won the SEC and cost,
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: Kirby Smart, a really good shot at a three-peat. You know,
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: we all say, what an amazing ending. He goes from
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: there to college game day. But, I mean, it was
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: a torture drill, but his program was leaking a little bit,
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: bit by bit. Chuck, you follow the game. You know
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: what I'm talking about. And every time, you know, there
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: was a lot. I mean, I was, you know, I'm
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: on TV going, yeah, Saban looks like he's losing it,
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: and you're crazy. Well, I don't think we were crazy,
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: but the second he beat Kirby Smart in the SEC game,
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: After he handed Kirby Smart's run, he was ready to go.
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: He said, OK, I can get out of here. I mean,
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: it would be nice if he'd caught his idiot offensive coordinator,
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: Tommy Reese, and not called a brick, you know, sent
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: Jalen Monroe into a Michigan brick wall in overtime. That's
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: how his career ended. But after he had, when you
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: go to the playoffs, you get away with it in
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: college football.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about the SEC's importance to the region. And,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: you know, what became crystal clear to me when we
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: were doing our research on this was, you know, what gives,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: you know, the whole, and as somebody who's, right, a
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: fan of a team that's not in the SEC, and,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: you know, it's the fun part of college football is
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: the whole back and forth in that. But you really
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: understand that the, you know, the South didn't get any
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: professional sports for a good 50 years, right? The NFL
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: didn't come until the 60s. And I guess I would
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: love for you to speak to that aspect of it,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: because The idea of the SEC breaking off, I think,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: is more real than people realize because of culturally important
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: it is to this region. Speak to that. And do
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: you think the idea of a breakaway is more real
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: than we realize?
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: I think it's possible. And again, as we're taping this,
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: the whole college football world is coming apart with with
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: another Lane Kiffin episode. But. There are presidents in the
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: league that want to break away. They've had enough. The
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: reason why I'm not convinced of it is I'm not
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: convinced anyone in college athletics really wants any more rules.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: To me, this train left the station a long time ago.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: The arrogance of the NCAA and the presidents and the
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: people that select the head of the ncaa in the
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: in the 2010 11 12 15 13 that rate they
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: they could have done something back then when mark emmerich
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: was the they could have i mean they could have
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: gotten away with giving players a hundred dollars uh and
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: a free big mac but they were they were so
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: belligerent they were not going to budge and and by
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: the time the train had pulled it was too late
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: so i don't i don't i i the big ten
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: in the SEC, assuming that their $ 1, 000- an- hour antitrust lawyers can
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: find a path for them, would like to move away
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: from everybody else. I just don't know how they can
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: right now.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Paul, I got to cover a lot of the great
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: rivalry games, Michigan-Ohio State, USC-CLA. Florida, Miami, Chuck, but Auburn,
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Alabama is the best. So it's not up for debate
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: as far as I'm concerned. What I'd like for you
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: to explain is what makes Auburn, Alabama the best rivalry?
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, nothing else here. I mean, I know that I don't,
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: you're sure the people that run the state tourism society will,
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, there's nothing else here from a professional level.
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to try to sell you on Alabama.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: It's a much nicer place than people in Washington.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: I spend a lot of time in Pensacola, Paul, so
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: I know it. I love the Civil Rights Trail in Alabama.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: It is a beautiful southern Alabama. I enjoy Mobile. I
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: will happily join you on the tourist board there.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you. But the point being, it goes back,
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: and Chuck and Jay, I believe... It's rooted, the love
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: of football here, the pride for Alabama and Auburn is
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: rooted in the Civil War. I've asked people, like, what
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: is it? And educators will say to me, you know,
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: at one time, Alabama was last in everything, but number
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: one in football. And I think the pride of that,
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: especially with Alabama, Auburn is a little bit of a
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: different story. But that game before playoffs, before all these,
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: it was literally the biggest moment. When I came here
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: in 1980, I mean, that was like, I mean, I
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: would walk outside and go back and forth on my
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: prediction like anybody really cared with a young sports writer.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: But it was that important. And then it became infamous
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: because of Bo Jackson and other players and then Cam Newton.
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: And then one episode, which some say was the greatest
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: launch of my own career, was when on January 27th, 2011,
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: a guy called in my radio show named Al from Dayville, Alabama,
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: and was upset about Auburn at the Iron Bowl, coming
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: from 24 down in Tuscaloosa against Nick Saban to beat Alabama,
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: cost Alabama a shot at anything, and go on to
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: win the national championship. And this guy was arguing with
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: me about whether Auburn fans rolled Tumor's Corner. Tumor's Corner
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: is this iconic little spot in Auburn where these two
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: historical trees were. And they throw toilet paper on them
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: after an Auburn win. Now, it's been a long time
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: since those trees have seen toilet paper, but maybe that
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: will change with the new coach. I finally got fed
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: up with them. I was about to hang up. So
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: I'll tell you what I did last weekend. I put
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: Spike 80 in the two tumors trees. I said, I
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: didn't even know what that was, by the way. He said,
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: I said, are they dead? He said, they're not dead yet,
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: but they will be. I said, is that against the law?
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: He said, do you think I care? Roll damn tight.
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: Three weeks later, I got a call from a friend
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: of mine who worked on Richard Shelby. He was on
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: the Homeland Security Subcommittee. He said, we're investigating an act
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: of terrorism in the Auburn water system from some idiot
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: that called your show. Two days later, Harvey Updike was
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: arrested for poisoning the trees. And the reason why he
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: was poisoning them is he felt like Cam Newton, he
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: called him Scam, should never have been allowed to play.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: And if that hadn't happened, Alabama would have beaten Auburn,
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: and Alabama would have won the national championship, and he
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: wouldn't have had to suffer Auburn's first national championship in
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: about 54 years. And it became this call that, yeah,
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not the greatest historian, but there have
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: rarely been anything quite like it on a sports calling show.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Now, Paul, that instantly became my litmus test for rivalries.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Do they poison trees in your rivalry? I mean, other rivalries,
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: they might kidnap a goat or something like that, right?
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Are they poisoning trees? You know, if no, then no,
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: your rivalry is not up to the level.
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: Of Auburn, Alabama. I have had Auburn women call me
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: on the show who are married to Alabama guys. And
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: if Auburn loses, I mean, they will withhold themselves from
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: their husband or wife. I mean, I'm not kidding. I mean,
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: it's lost a little bit because of all the other
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: things that are happening now in college football. But for
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: a long time, there was nothing that touched.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: It.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Look, my son will tell you he's 19, and he
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: describes the kick six as like, even though he's not
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: a fan of either team, that watching me react to
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: the kick six, and the kick six is his first
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: memory of college football, and that's when he fell in
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: love with it. was kick six.
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: I mean, there are, there's a lot of great plays
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: in college football, but this play was so important. First
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: of all, the thing about the kick six that people
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: don't have forgotten is Alabama had the lead. They blew
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: the lead. Alabama, the game had run out. The game
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: had ended. It was going to overtime and Nick Saban
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: Screamed at the officials, and they put one second back
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: on the clock.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: He demanded the time. That was returned 109 yards by
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: Chris Davis for, in my mind, the greatest play. Alabama
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: was trying to three-peat, and they would have because they
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: would have played Florida State, Chuck. You and I both
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: know that.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, I was at the Florida State-Auburn game. I was
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: at that. I had to take Mrs. Todd to that game.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: I always ped whoever gets in the national title. I'm
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: in a mixed marriage, so. Yeah, I'm glad it was
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Auburn there and Nick Marshall and not Alabama. Let me
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: ask you this. Let's talk about the elephant in the
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: room when it comes to Alabama circa 2026. How does
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Kalen DeBoer avoid the Ray Perkins.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Outcome?
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: He's going to have a hard time because she is
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: a fairly dull personality.
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: He....
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: I think he's an elite coach, and I think he
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: would probably win a championship at Mishka. I just don't
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: think he can win one at Alabama.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: He culturally feels like a mismatch.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, Les Miles won a championship at LSU because
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: David left some great players behind. But, yeah, it's– I mean–
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: I hate to be critical of the guy because he
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: is so good. But Alabama is unique. And very few
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: have succeeded there. And I think long term, he will
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: finally have enough of the pressure. I mean, it's just
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: one of those places where if you don't win a title,
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: it's just not good enough.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: It's SEC champion. This ain't Ole Miss.
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: No, I mean. I mean, Ole Miss until recently was
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: best known for the motto because of the grove and
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: all the things that go with it. Yeah, we may
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: not win the game, but we've never lost a party.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: So we'll let you get out after this, Paul. What
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: do you make of Alabama in the modern, the social
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: media era, right? And what has that done? You know,
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: I think we've seen Alabama ride the popularity of, say,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: Bama Rush and what Bama Rush TikTok has meant for
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: the university as a whole. But what do you think
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: the social media era means for Alabama football fandom in
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: the Crimson Tide?
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: I think it's been good. I mean, here I go again,
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: sounding like I'm working for the next governor, Tommy Tuberville.
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: But Alabama, the University of Alabama is a good school.
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: but it's known for Russian football. And their president, Igor Boer,
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: just came from Ohio State. He can go to New
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: York and he can go to LA and Chicago and
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: try to convince people there's something else there, but that's
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: what we know it for. So I think it's been good,
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: but Saban really changed the direction of the school. When
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: Nick Saban was hired, In 2007, I happened to work
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: in the same building at the time I worked in
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: a radio station with the chairman of the board of trustees,
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: a guy named Gary Neal Drummond. He's a coal magnate.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: And he gave an interview to the local media and said,
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: I think Saban is a good coach, but the pay
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: is outrageous and it's uncalled for for an academic institution
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: to pay a man $ 4 million a year. Robert Witt,
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: who was the president at the time, later told 60
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: Minutes that it was the single best investment in the
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: history of the state of Alabama. There is just, I mean,
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: it's incalculable. Somebody ought to do that.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: The economic impact of Nick Saban to the state of Alabama.
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: And it's, there's still, it's, I mean, it, I mean, it,
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: I mean, I would be on planes going to gay
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: Alabama games in New York, Boston. I said, why are
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: you going to Alabama? I mean, it just became a brand.
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: And they're still living off of it. But the problem is,
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: in this era, it's going to be tough to live
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: on for long. Because another average season, if the bottom
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: falls out, I'm not saying they're going to be the
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: next Nebraska. Um, but I'm old enough to remember when
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: Nebraska was the best program in the country.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: That's something that that's the, that's the, that either that's
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: going to be in the next freezing cold takes when
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Alabama wins the national title this year.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Or, uh, Or is the most precious thing we've heard
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: so far. Paul, this has been a treat, my friend.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: It's great to talk with you and share the love
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: here as much as I love. If you love college football,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: you've got to respect Alabama, even if you don't love
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: Alabama football, right?
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: Listen, the pleasure was mine. I'm just sorry I have
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: to go to work from here. I just seen another
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: bar and have a few drinks.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much for your time, Paul. Really appreciate it.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: What a pleasure, guys.
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: Thank you very much.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: Well, J.A., a prediction that Alabama could become Nebraska football,
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: that is– first of all, it's quintessential Paul Feinbaum. He's
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: not going to beat around the bush on something. I
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: kind of sort of see where he's going, and it
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: was sort of why I asked the question about the
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: financial aspect of Alabama football. You pointed this out with
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: all the billionaires. We see how Texas is going to be.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: We know Ohio State, shoot, even a Miami, a USC–
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: you sort of see how some of these schools could
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: thrive in this type of mindset. Oregon with that. There's
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: no big corporation that's behind Alabama. There's no series of billionaires.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: And Nebraska is an interesting comparison.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because tradition doesn't matter anymore. And no tradition, you know,
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: maybe at least no tradition south of Notre Dame is
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: as rich and celebrated as Alabama's. But if you take
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: that out of the equation and it strictly becomes who's
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: going to pay the most money and those are going
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: to be the most successful programs, then Alabama is in trouble.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: I thought it was really insightful from Paul and very candid.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: It's funny because when I was talking rivalries, I remember
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: Nebraska-Oklahoma when that was one of the great rivalries.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: That would have been in the top five.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: You would have been like, oh, that's a top five rivalry.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: And you're 100%. There is no more Nebraska. And no
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: qualms with dropping it because tradition does not matter anymore.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: And so that's the worst thing you could hear from Alabama.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: Not just that money is increasingly a part of the
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: college football landscape, but that.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: The continued diminishment of tradition because you're taking away one
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: of the anchors for Alabama football.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: But I will say this, and this has been true
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: of college football. Post Bear Bryant, when Alabama struggled, And
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: the assumption was, well, now that the Florida schools have
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: woken up, Alabama can't, you know, recruit in the South anymore,
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: South Florida anymore, because that's now Florida, Florida State, Miami,
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: and they don't have those same advantages. And that was
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: true until it wasn't, right?
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: Now, it just could be they go dormant for a
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: decade or two. And maybe that's, you know, they did
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: it once and they came back. So I certainly am
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: not going to count Alabama out considering the tradition that
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: it has had.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: But a lot of headwinds. I also appreciated the fact
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: that you know, the insight that he could give from
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: knowing George Wallace's son or living near Bear Bryant's grandson.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: You just don't get that kind of perspective. So, you know,
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: that really boosted the interview, I thought.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: It's interesting that George Wallace Jr., little throwaway line, and
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: I don't want to go, you know, but the, you know,
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: it's the cherry picking of the George Wallace legacy. The
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: sad fact was the first time he did run for governor,
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: he lost, and he determined it was because he wasn't
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: racist enough.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he had to double down on it.
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: That's always been the legend there. So who knows? All right,
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: let's get into some fan mail. We got here, or
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: Jay and I will be answering some questions from our listeners.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: And our first question is, Roger in Atlanta, since the
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: year 2000, teams from the SEC have won 16 national titles.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: The next closest league is the Big Ten with five championships.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: but big 10 teams have won the last three titles.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: You think the era of sec football dominance is over.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: So Jay, this is actually a good segue into our
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: financial conversation, right? So when you look at the Indiana question,
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: the largest alumni base in the country and you're, and,
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: and a guy like Mark Cuban is among them, right?
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: You see that money, Ohio state capital. We, you know, need,
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: we say more Michigan, you brought up Larry Ellison. I mean,
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: he's not even a, a Michigan alum. He's technically a Lion-Eye,
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: but his girlfriend's a Michigan fan, right? So that matters.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: Sometimes that's all it takes.
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: I look at the SEC schools. Texas, you know, has
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: the money. I think Georgia with the Atlanta community, that
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: sits there. I actually think Nashville for both Tennessee and
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Vandy is probably a longer-term financial asset than we fully appreciate.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: I do wonder if both Auburn, Alabama, Ole Miss, Mississippi,
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: both Alabama and Mississippi schools in general.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: Have an issue here. I don't know.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: Maybe that's unfair, but is that what this is about?
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Well, you'll start to see the benefit, though, of the expansion, right?
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: So maybe some of the traditional SEC powers that we
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: think of won't be able to play at this level,
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: but you look at a Texas A & M, and
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: I forget the name of their benefactor, but You know,
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: they've got the money to compete. And so you just
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: hope that there's enough for this new. And I guess
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: the question is, how long can like the traditional, the
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: oil money last? I mean, the oil money is not
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: going to last forever. At some point, we're going to
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: transition to electric vehicles and the like to diminish the
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: importance of oil money. But for now, some of that
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: old money, Walmart type money, right, can still play and
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: can still compete at this level because the big money
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: hasn't come in. But we will see an increase in
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: private equity, right? The door is already open slightly. We
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: almost saw the Big Ten take a path of a
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: private fund and committing to that. So you wonder if
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: the Big Ten were to do that, would the SEC
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: had to follow suit? And now you can open it
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: up to private equity anywhere, right? And it's not just Southern.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: If they see SEC football as a good investment, then
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: the money will come in and the SEC will remain competitive.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's interesting.
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: Look, I.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: I think Greg Sankey has too much influence over the
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: college football playoff and the ESPN thing. And I've got
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of beefs here with him as a, as
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: a fan of a team in the ACC. And I
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: want to, I put that bias in there and I
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: want to put a Chinese firewall at it. I understand
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: where he's thinking here and why, you know, he has
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: set up his conference differently than the big 10 did.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: He brags about that. It's continuous. All of the, Schools
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: are in contiguous states, right? Oklahoma and Texas being on
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: the outer edge there. I do think that he does
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: worry that he is trying to, he realizes what's coming,
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: that the Big Ten could consume the SEC if they're
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: not careful. And it strikes me that Sankey's sort of
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: defiance on this really is a fear of that more
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: than anything.
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: Else, I wonder.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: I think the inevitability is the merger of those two conferences.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: The strongest of the SEC continue on and the Big
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: Ten's best continues on. I think ultimately it's inevitable, but
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: I think while there's two separate conferences, I still think
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: the SEC can remain competitive for now. Lori from Bethel,
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: Connecticut asks, listening to your episode about Alabama football, I
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: came with the impression Nick Saban was an obsessive workaholic
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: who treated Players and staff poorly. Being from Connecticut, Danny
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: Hurley and maybe even Gina Auriemma come to mind having
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: similar personalities as Saban. I wonder if you think that
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: personality type is what's needed to be successful in big-time
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: college sports these days. If not, who are some of
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: the exceptions? I would take exception with necessarily treating players
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: and staff poorly. I don't think she would have gotten
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: that sense from our podcast.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: No, I mean the assistants, you did get that, right?
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: There's always been this, he's hard on his assistants. I
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: never got the sense he was hard on his players.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: He's tough and demanding, but I wouldn't say that he
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: treats them poorly. You don't hear a lot of stories
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: about that. But I do think ultimately, you know, there's
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: a case for the, you know, the hard-ass wins out,
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: especially in college football. Like, I always remember in the NFL, like,
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: you know, Sam Weiss was kind of wacky, right? He
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: was known.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: He was the first players coach, wasn't he?
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, but who– Who won out? Who goes
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: down as the modern great coach? Bill Belichick, right? We
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: talked about the comparisons with Saban and Belichick. And I
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: just feel like there's been too much of a historical
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: foundation that's been established that in football in particular, it's
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: those tough-minded, hard-nosed coaches that win. And yeah, Danny Hurley,
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: I think, fits that mold. I'm not sure he's someone
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: I would want to sit down and have a cocktail with.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: but I damn sure would want him coaching my college
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: basketball team.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: That's interesting. You know, I remember there was this great
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: story about Jimmy Johnson right after he took over the
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: Miami program before he had ever won anything. And there
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: were still people upset that Schnellenberger had left and Schnellenberger,
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: you know, that he had, he was a Bear Bryant guy, right.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: Which meant guess how the practices were. They were tough.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: And this is Miami and this is the heat. And
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: I remember there was a big story in the Miami
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: Herald that, Jimmy Johnson brought ice pops for the players.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: And there was this concern, oh, he's going to make
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: them soft. And, and here's what we know about Jimmy, right?
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: Jimmy arguably was that the next generation of coach that
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: was more player friendly. Why did Michael Irvin go from
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: Miami to Dallas, right? There was a bond and a
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: trust with Jimmy, um, who knew how to manage, uh, frankly,
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: an explosive figure like Michael Irvin, right? And at the
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: same time, have a Michael Irvin feel as comfortable with
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: Emmitt Smith and Troy Aikman as he would anybody else.
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: I do think underneath the blowhardness sometimes that all coaches have,
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: if you're bad to your players, you're not going to
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: win long-term. Don't you agree?
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Especially in the transfer portal era, right? I think
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: we all recognize that the Bear Bryant Junction or the
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: Junction Boys, that wouldn't fly in today's era. I think
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: you have to be a modern version of the Lombardi,
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: even the Belichick. We're seeing that the Belichick isn't working
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: in college football. In some ways, college athletes have more
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: options than the NFL. You're not signing a multi-year contract.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: College players have options. The irony is that no one
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: has more power than the, the 18 year old and
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: you know, the next great quarterback in college football, because
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: you have these grown men that will just come and
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: do anything. I love that story that Paul told of, of, of, uh,
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: Bear Bryant just having to sit there and take it
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: and be chewed out by John Mitchell's mother.
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: Why did he do that? Because he needed the services
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: and he needed the talent of John Mitchell. So, uh,
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: you know, players have that power, but once they, once
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: they come in, of course, it's a different story. But
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: now that if you don't like the way things are going,
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: it's a lot easier to leave. I think that that
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: complete hard level coaches is going.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: To go away. I also look, I think today's college
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: 17 and 18 year old has never been more mature.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: And I know we say that all the time, but
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: you know, these aren't, you know, these aren't how you
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: and I were at 18 or 17. These kids are
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: already pretty financially mature. You know, they have they have
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: a head on their shoulders. They've especially if they're at
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: that elite level of college athletics, they've already been through
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: some of these sort of 12 that 12 to 17
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: year old sport youth sports arena. That ain't amateurish. That
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: ain't mom and dad on the rec leagues.
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: And I've watched these docu series.
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: You know, behind the scenes, all access at Alabama.
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: So, you know, exactly what you're getting into.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: I think there's a professionalism with them, with the younger
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: athlete today at 18, that you didn't even have at 22,
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: 20 years ago.
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: Next question comes from Cliff from Mobile, Alabama. Ah, Kalen
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: DeBoer is entering year three. How do you think Alabama
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: fans patience with him compares to how they treated coaches
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: in past transitions like Ray Perkins or Mike Shula after
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: Bryant and Stallings? Um, I don't think this is a,
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: I don't think this is something that is of another era, J.A.,
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: and this is true of any legendary team, a championship
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: team where it's national title or bust. If you're not
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: playing for national titles by year three, you're considered a bust.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: It may not be fair, but it's what you sign
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: up for when you take the Alabama job. It's just
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: like what you sign up for when you take the
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: Notre Dame job. Frankly, it is what's been true. whether
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: you think the university of Miami fans should be behaving
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: the way they've had over. That's how we behaved over
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: a period of time and why we went through so
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: many coaches over a period. When you set a standard
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: like that, the fan base gets more impatient. I don't
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: think they have there. They don't have, they don't, they're
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: not satisfied. They don't sit there and say, Hey, we're
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: fat and happy. The Saban years were terrific. It's okay
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: to lose for another decade.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: And you never want to be the one who follows
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: the legend, right? Would Saban have been, afforded you know
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: the grace from some of his early stumbles he had
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: a couple of early stumbles uh at his at his
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: start at alabama would saban have been afforded that grace
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: if he'd been following bear bryant and so now devore
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: has to follow saban and the likes of a losing
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: to a vanderbilt or something like that that that's just
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: not going to cut it with this band that still
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: remembers saban just a couple years ago.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: As somebody who had to follow somebody who was uh
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: who you know who I know a little something about
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: that and you don't want to be the person that
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: follows the person. You want to be the person that
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: follows the person that follows the person. You know, Kalen
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: DeBoer may go on and win a national title at
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: Wisconsin in a decade. Okay. But I think that's almost
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: as likely as him succeeding in Alabama at this point.
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: All right. Our final question comes from Jerry in Orlando
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: who asks, do you think Nick Saban as coach would
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: have been as effective in the NIL era? And we
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: kind of got to this in our discussion. I don't
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: think Nick Saban thinks he would have been as effective
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: a coach in the name image likeness era, as he
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: referred to it by its full government name. And so, yeah,
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: I think we got that answer. The fact that he's
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: not coaching in the NIL era when he still could
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: have made a lot of good money doing so let you,
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: let you know.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: What does it tell you? What does it tell you, J.A. that, that,
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: that within a, was it within the same year cycle that,
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: Nick Saban and Mike Krzyzewski both walk away as just
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: as their sports are transitioning to this new way of
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: doing business. I don't think that was a coincidence.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: Do you? Jay Wright of Villanova, right? Who's kind of just, yeah,
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: peaked and just said, yeah, I think I'd rather not.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, you got to learn a whole new way
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: of doing business. I don't mean it in a negative,
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: but you're 70 years old and you're going, wait a minute.
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: For the last 20 years, this is how recruiting's worked.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Now I've got to do it this whole other way.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: I'm sure if Nick Saban were 55, he'd be like, OK,
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: let's go sign me up.
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: That's Mario Cristobal, Kirk Cignetti, who were part of the
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: old way. And now they're like, OK, I'll transition to
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: the new way. Kirby Smart. I think some of it
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: has to do with, frankly, where you are in your
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: own career timeline.
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: I do think that coaches feel like they've lost more
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: control than they do. They still have the most important
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: factor in their career. hands and has playing time. And
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: there's a quote, I think it's attributed to John Wooden.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know how accuracy that attribution, how accurate it is,
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: but you know, the most effective motivator is the bench,
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: you know, words to that effect. So you still have
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: the ability to play or not play players and to
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: control teams that way. And yes, they have the ability
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: to leave a lot easier than they used to, but
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: for purposes of getting your team to function at its utmost,
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: you still can utilize, Hey, do you want to play
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: or not? You know, do you want to play here
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: or not? You're here Regardless of where you end up,
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: you're here at Alabama for the duration of this season,
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: and if you don't get in line with what I want,
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: you're not going to play. So I think they still
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: have more control. Just because they feel like they've lost
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: a little bit of control, it feels like it's all
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: gone away. You talk about how when some people say
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: equality feels like injustice to them, it's indicative of how
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: they viewed things before, how they viewed the status quo originally.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: But I think these coaches... have forgotten the fact they do,
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: they still determine playing time and they're still in charge
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: of that. And that could go a long way towards
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: maintaining some semblance of control.
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: Boy, that's, that's a good way to end. Like, Hey coaches,
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: you know, don't, don't whine.
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: Don't whine about what you lost. Why don't you focus
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: on what you, what, what control you still have and
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: get better at it. Well, that does it. for the questions.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: So please send us your questions through our social media
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: channels and on our YouTube channel. And please follow us
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: on social media at dynasticpod. And like and review us
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your podcast. On YouTube, please check
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: out at dynasticpod. Like and subscribe on our YouTube channel.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: The more we get of that, the more of these
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: tremendous episodes we can bring to you. So please, please, please,
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: if you've enjoyed this, give us that little like and subscribe.
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: And along with our executive producer and partner, Steve Hull,
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: we'd like to thank Andrew Sampson, the head of program
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: and our production partner, Showboat Media, Kevin Kennedy, our producer,
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: and Meredith Bioli, our researcher.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: And thanks for listening. And I'm excited to report that
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: the next three episodes of Dynastic will be on the
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: history of the Green Bay Packers. We are going up
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: to the frozen tundra. The first of those three episodes
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: will be available on September 26th, 22nd.
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: Excuse me on that.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: September 22nd. So see you then.