Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / The Hound of the Baskervilles '39 and '59 - Sidney Lanfield | Houselights #266: Wing of Sherlock

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The Hound of the Baskervilles '39 and '59 - Sidney Lanfield | Houselights #266: Wing of Sherlock · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

0:03
Speaker 1: Welcome to the net party. Hello everybody. In this episode
0:22
Speaker 1: of Houselights, we launch a new series that we're calling
0:24
Speaker 1: Wing of Sherlock, where we examined the great Detective through
0:28
Speaker 1: the distinct visions of different directors. Tonight we tackle two adaptations,
0:33
Speaker 1: that's right, two of The Hound of Baskerville, separated by
0:37
Speaker 1: two decades of wildly different sensibilities. The nineteen thirty nine
0:41
Speaker 1: version introduces Basil Rathbone in his defining role, all gothic
0:46
Speaker 1: atmosphere and studio bound fog, while the nineteen fifty nine
0:50
Speaker 1: Hammer film production drags the story into technicolor, with Peter
0:54
Speaker 1: Cushing at the helm and a hound that looks like
0:56
Speaker 1: it wandered in from a different movie entirely with me
1:00
Speaker 1: playing Watson to my homes, eager to follow every lead
1:03
Speaker 1: across the moor with a notebook and a ridiculous accent
1:07
Speaker 1: but maximum enthusiasm, Darren Moser and lurking in the shadows
1:12
Speaker 1: like Stapleton with a butterfly net, ready to poke holes
1:15
Speaker 1: in every theory and remind us that nothing is as
1:18
Speaker 1: it seems. John Mills. From the way each film handles
1:22
Speaker 1: Watson to their competing ideas about what makes the more menacing.
1:26
Speaker 1: We dissect what works, what falters, and why the same
1:29
Speaker 1: story can feel so different in the hands of directors
1:32
Speaker 1: working in opposite eras of studio filmmaking. Let's light our pipes,
1:36
Speaker 1: avoid the bog, and hope that hound is just a
1:40
Speaker 1: very large dog.
1:41
Speaker 2: This is houselights, Bravo, good chat, good show, very good elementary, elementary.
1:49
Speaker 1: I sure being lost it when the thirty nine Watson
1:54
Speaker 1: he said that, he said it just like that, he said.
1:56
Speaker 1: I wasn't even parroting him, that's what he sounded like.
2:00
Speaker 1: I was like, so that's why we jokingly say murder.
2:03
Speaker 1: It came from that.
2:05
Speaker 2: Well, yes, there are plenty of things about the nineteen
2:09
Speaker 2: thirty nine Hound of the Baskervilles that I found to
2:12
Speaker 2: be charming artifacts of the time. I guess you could
2:16
Speaker 2: say it's really I mean, you hit on it in
2:20
Speaker 2: your your intro. These are it's the same source material
2:24
Speaker 2: approached in two decidedly different ways, although they're both studio movies,
2:29
Speaker 2: quote unquote, And it's like, it's really wild to see.
2:34
Speaker 2: I think what stays the same and what differs between
2:37
Speaker 2: the two of them.
2:38
Speaker 3: Like, what is the define?
2:39
Speaker 2: What are the like you know, what are the defining
2:42
Speaker 2: things that I can look at it and like, at
2:45
Speaker 2: a glance, I could have the sound off and I'd
2:47
Speaker 2: look at it.
2:48
Speaker 3: I'd be like, that's a Sherlock Holmes movie.
2:50
Speaker 2: I mean, costumes are not one to one, you know,
2:54
Speaker 2: the different sensibilities are not or I'm sorry, the different
2:57
Speaker 2: trappings of the era are not one to one. But
2:59
Speaker 2: I could look at either one of these things and say, oh,
3:01
Speaker 2: that's Sherlock Holmes. So what is it that just screams
3:05
Speaker 2: visually Sherlock Holmes Between the two.
3:08
Speaker 4: I mean, in some ways, it's it's the sum of
3:12
Speaker 4: its parts. It's all these little things. It's the fact
3:14
Speaker 4: that it's you know, a guy in a deerskin cap,
3:19
Speaker 4: you know, which you kind of have to have at
3:21
Speaker 4: least that with another guy following him around, and you know,
3:27
Speaker 4: deducing things.
3:29
Speaker 3: You know that at its core.
3:31
Speaker 4: I mean, Heck, Data and Jordi pulled that off, you know,
3:36
Speaker 4: in Star Trek, pulling you know, a single episode together
3:39
Speaker 4: where you instantly knew who they were, a little over
3:42
Speaker 4: the top, but you know, but I'm excited about this
3:46
Speaker 4: wing because not only are we covering this character, but
3:50
Speaker 4: I would say not even since the Wing of King Arthur.
3:53
Speaker 4: When we covered that back in episode one forty eight,
3:56
Speaker 4: where we were actually looking at different representations of the
4:01
Speaker 4: same character. I'm skipping Wing a predator because that was
4:04
Speaker 4: kind of the same race, you know, like they're not
4:08
Speaker 4: meant to be the same person, so it's kind of
4:11
Speaker 4: a different comparison, whereas Arthur is like, it's Arthur.
4:14
Speaker 3: It's meant to be Arthur every time.
4:16
Speaker 4: And yes, dear listeners, as you might have surmised, one
4:22
Speaker 4: of these movies did not have a lot of meat
4:26
Speaker 4: on the bone there too to discuss.
4:29
Speaker 1: So yeah, we have we hit it. We all finished
4:32
Speaker 1: the nineteen thirty nine version, and we all texted each
4:34
Speaker 1: other almost simultaneously saying, I don't know if this is
4:38
Speaker 1: enough to fill an entire episode. Speaking of which, the
4:42
Speaker 1: director of nineteen thirty nine was Sidney Landfield and the
4:45
Speaker 1: studio was twenty Century Fox. Fifty nine was Terence Fisher
4:50
Speaker 1: and the studio was Hammer Film Productions, but it was
4:52
Speaker 1: distributed by United Artists. And what's insane is that the
4:58
Speaker 1: thirty nine Wrath Bone version he made fourteen of those,
5:04
Speaker 1: he made fourteen, Cherlock, you.
5:06
Speaker 3: Said, defining character, it really is.
5:10
Speaker 1: So two were on twentieth Century Fox with larger budgets,
5:14
Speaker 1: and then the other twelve were very much B movies
5:16
Speaker 1: with lower budgets, and they just kind of cranked him
5:19
Speaker 1: out and Cushing this was Cushing's only I think only
5:25
Speaker 1: Theatrical Distribute distributed Sherlock Holms movie. I think you might
5:29
Speaker 1: have done something for the BBC later in life, but
5:32
Speaker 1: this was the biggest one that he that he did.
5:36
Speaker 1: And I think one of the biggest differences that I
5:40
Speaker 1: see visually is thirty nine is all on a sound
5:44
Speaker 1: stage with a bunch of fog machines, and you could
5:47
Speaker 1: at least see some location shooting in the fifty nine version.
5:51
Speaker 3: Although I suspect there was.
5:52
Speaker 2: I mean there was some maybe day for night, you know,
5:56
Speaker 2: I don't know, some filters when there was actually sunlight out,
6:00
Speaker 2: you know, just to to save In the fifty nine version,
6:04
Speaker 2: I'm like, that's a difference between the two of them.
6:06
Speaker 2: Like when when when she ran out at night time
6:09
Speaker 2: in the UH in the nineteen fifty nine version, I
6:12
Speaker 2: was like, maybe you should have stayed in the studio
6:14
Speaker 2: because I wasn't convincing at all. Guys, like it was
6:17
Speaker 2: just it was crazy and it's like, I think that
6:20
Speaker 2: in and of itself shows how the studio like if
6:24
Speaker 2: you keep it in the studio like it it, it
6:27
Speaker 2: at least creates a visual consistency that I think keeps
6:32
Speaker 2: you rooted in the story to a certain extent, Whereas
6:35
Speaker 2: every time you switch to an outdoor shot on the
6:40
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty nine version, those those differences like jar you
6:45
Speaker 2: for a second. I don't know if it was jarring
6:47
Speaker 2: for the audience at the time, but for me it
6:49
Speaker 2: was like, oh wow, we suddenly switched you.
6:51
Speaker 3: Know, where we were and what we were doing in
6:53
Speaker 3: a very substantial way.
6:56
Speaker 2: You know, when they're they're when they're running, uh, and
7:00
Speaker 2: you know, shows her outdoors, running across the moor as
7:02
Speaker 2: it were.
7:03
Speaker 1: What's crazy is that we still can't do day for
7:05
Speaker 1: night very well. It's just one of those things that
7:08
Speaker 1: everybody does, but it's just it's never completely convincing. It
7:11
Speaker 1: just doesn't work because just the sunlight and the shadows
7:16
Speaker 1: that it casts and the sunbeams.
7:19
Speaker 4: That go you just can't change that, which is cry
7:21
Speaker 4: for wet better than we can do day for night,
7:24
Speaker 4: Like not saying something.
7:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I want to talk about the differences between
7:30
Speaker 1: the directors for a little bit. Oh, I mean, that's
7:32
Speaker 1: the main reason why we're talking. But so Sidney Lanfield
7:36
Speaker 1: was primarily a comedic director, and one of the reasons
7:41
Speaker 1: why and you'll like this, John, one of the reasons
7:42
Speaker 1: why he was brought on for this picture was because
7:46
Speaker 1: of his efficiency and his pace. He was just like,
7:50
Speaker 1: he was like, this is how we're going to get
7:51
Speaker 1: it done. Like we're gonna shoot it on the studio,
7:53
Speaker 1: We're gonna crank it out. We're going to do this
7:55
Speaker 1: many pages a day, boom bam boom. And he worked
7:59
Speaker 1: very much much within the Fox system and their style
8:03
Speaker 1: of clean compositions, really really fast shooting schedules and doing
8:08
Speaker 1: a lot with a little bit of money on a
8:12
Speaker 1: tight schedule. And then you have Terrence Fisher, who is
8:14
Speaker 1: also a house director, but he just got done right
8:18
Speaker 1: before this. He just got done doing the Curse of
8:20
Speaker 1: Frankensteign and Dracula, and so you can really see those
8:24
Speaker 1: influences in the fifty nine version. Like the fifty nine
8:28
Speaker 1: version definitely has much more of a horror tone to it,
8:32
Speaker 1: and I think the technicolor also helps as well, because
8:34
Speaker 1: you're able to see the ridiculous ploot it's still wet
8:39
Speaker 1: hours later. But yeah, you definitely have that gothic horror
8:44
Speaker 1: visual language of low angles and dramatic lighting, and I
8:49
Speaker 1: think that was probably the biggest besides just shooting on
8:51
Speaker 1: a studio versus only sometimes shooting on a studio. I
8:55
Speaker 1: think those were the biggest differences where it was just
8:58
Speaker 1: like Landfield is very utilitarian and clean compositions, Fisher had
9:01
Speaker 1: a lot more style to it. I would you guys
9:04
Speaker 1: agree with that?
9:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, I completely agree, because when you watch the thirty
9:07
Speaker 2: nine version, it's all about the actors hitting their marks.
9:10
Speaker 2: It's much more it's still in that more stage play mentality,
9:14
Speaker 2: and I think you're right to point out like Fisher
9:18
Speaker 2: there's even though if we can debate whether he achieves
9:21
Speaker 2: anything at this point, you know, or achieves what he's
9:24
Speaker 2: going for, there's a much more grandiose feel for it.
9:27
Speaker 2: And I think that or he's going for a more
9:30
Speaker 2: grandiose feel, and I think that just the simple way
9:34
Speaker 2: that the story approaches the backstory of the hound and
9:38
Speaker 2: the ancestor where the curse started. I think it's very
9:42
Speaker 2: very you know, it displays that, like I was very
9:46
Speaker 2: hopeful when the fifty nine version started because one of
9:49
Speaker 2: the things that I thought didn't work well at all
9:51
Speaker 2: with a thirty nine version was that flashback and telling
9:54
Speaker 2: the story of the original Baron or whatever, and I
9:59
Speaker 2: just it broke up the movie and it didn't flow well,
10:03
Speaker 2: Whereas I thought it was much more interesting and again
10:05
Speaker 2: to your POINTERSS, and much more of a horror movie opening.
10:09
Speaker 2: To open at night with that dark hall and somebody
10:12
Speaker 2: being thrown out in him going crazy mad because she's
10:16
Speaker 2: escaped the room where he's gonna take advantage of her
10:19
Speaker 2: and stuff like that. It's like that was a really
10:23
Speaker 2: ambitious opening. It was like that really set the stakes
10:27
Speaker 2: like big, you know, go big or go home sort
10:29
Speaker 2: of mentality in fifty nine.
10:31
Speaker 1: One thing I did like about the thirty nine flashback,
10:33
Speaker 1: because I do agree with you that the timing was
10:35
Speaker 1: all off, but I did actually appreciate the little visual
10:39
Speaker 1: flare that they had where they superimposed some of the
10:42
Speaker 1: footage onto the page as they were reading and flipping
10:46
Speaker 1: pages and everything like that. I thought, especially for the time,
10:49
Speaker 1: it looked pretty cool because it wasn't too distracting. I
10:52
Speaker 1: felt like they balanced it out a lot. Darren. I'd
10:57
Speaker 1: love to ask you about Wrathbone versus Cushing. Now we
11:02
Speaker 1: don't need to go like, oh, who was better or
11:04
Speaker 1: anything like that, I know, but I would love to
11:07
Speaker 1: know what you thought of Wrathbone's interpretation versus Cushing's interpretation.
11:13
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I definitely don't have like a love
11:19
Speaker 4: as far as, like, you know, it's not like Colombo,
11:22
Speaker 4: where I've seen dozens of episodes or or something else where,
11:25
Speaker 4: Like I haven't seen all of wrath Bones, like fifteen,
11:30
Speaker 4: you know, Sherlock Home, you know interpretations. I just have
11:33
Speaker 4: this one data point. But I think he does, you know,
11:37
Speaker 4: a decent job. I would be curious to look at
11:40
Speaker 4: exactly where in the chronology of his performance this is.
11:45
Speaker 3: Is it the middle, the beginning, or the end.
11:48
Speaker 4: I'm not entirely sure as far as portraying Sherlock, but
11:52
Speaker 4: this was the first. Oh, this was the the instigating Okay,
11:57
Speaker 4: So in that regard, I can see how he in
12:02
Speaker 4: the positive, I can see how he captured the role,
12:05
Speaker 4: like I can see how people were like, oh, I
12:07
Speaker 4: want to see more of this. And this became a series.
12:09
Speaker 4: This obviously did enough money to warrant, you know, fifteen
12:13
Speaker 4: more of them, even if they all didn't have the
12:15
Speaker 4: same budget.
12:16
Speaker 1: But.
12:18
Speaker 4: I really enjoyed Peter Cushing and on looking behind the scenes,
12:25
Speaker 4: he really wanted to do right by this role, did
12:28
Speaker 4: the time, did the research, was maybe not overstepping the director,
12:33
Speaker 4: but was definitely one of those actors who's like, no, no,
12:36
Speaker 4: Holmes would do it this way, or no, no, you
12:38
Speaker 4: need this on the you know, in the background.
12:41
Speaker 3: And it was regarded by many that.
12:45
Speaker 4: He just had this knack for doing multiple things at
12:51
Speaker 4: the same time in the same shot where he's delivering
12:54
Speaker 4: all this pros perfectly while he's you know, smoking a
12:58
Speaker 4: pipe and looking at things and correcting things on the
13:01
Speaker 4: mantle and you know, walking around the room too. And
13:06
Speaker 4: when you actually think about it, I mean, we're so
13:07
Speaker 4: used to that level of acting, but that's not a
13:11
Speaker 4: guarantee that your actor can pull that off.
13:13
Speaker 3: That can't.
13:14
Speaker 4: Just like you said, stand and hit a mark, he's
13:17
Speaker 4: using the space and using like I completely believe he's
13:22
Speaker 4: homes nothing against you know, rath Bone. But Peter Cushing
13:27
Speaker 4: really sold it for me, like I felt like he
13:31
Speaker 4: was a perfect fit.
13:33
Speaker 1: And it's funny that you bring up that was one
13:35
Speaker 1: of your favorite parts of the character characterization that Cushing
13:40
Speaker 1: brought to Holmes because if you look at his most
13:43
Speaker 1: famous role in nineteen seventy seven with Star Wars, he
13:48
Speaker 1: almost didn't move for the entire movie. He's either sitting down,
13:53
Speaker 1: like he walks in to a conference table, sits down,
13:57
Speaker 1: and then there's another time when he walks a couple
13:59
Speaker 1: of steps pretty slowly towards Lea and that's the only
14:01
Speaker 1: time was he an move through the entire movie. Everybody
14:04
Speaker 1: comes to him.
14:05
Speaker 2: Additional side notice since his for anybody that doesn't know,
14:09
Speaker 2: his boots were the wrong size and that's why you
14:11
Speaker 2: only see him in his boots, and I think it's
14:13
Speaker 2: like two shots total or something like that. Yeah, he
14:17
Speaker 2: was in slippers the rest of the time. So that's
14:19
Speaker 2: good work if you can get it. But I think that,
14:22
Speaker 2: you know, Darren, I agree with you that what I
14:26
Speaker 2: like about or what works about the portrayal of Holmes
14:30
Speaker 2: by Cushing is he seems more self possessed, Like he
14:36
Speaker 2: doesn't have a forced air about him or like an
14:41
Speaker 2: aggressive assurance about himself. He's that relaxed sort of like, yeah,
14:46
Speaker 2: I'm the smartest guy in the verb is cool, Like
14:48
Speaker 2: he's not. He's just like, look, we all know, let's
14:51
Speaker 2: just deal with it. Whereas Wrathbone is much more and
14:53
Speaker 2: I think it's because of his physical stature compared to
14:56
Speaker 2: the other actors. Rathbone can walk into a room and
14:59
Speaker 2: be like, you will listen to me, and it's like, yes, sir,
15:01
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter whether you're smart.
15:02
Speaker 1: I think you get Rathbone was six', Two is that? Right?
15:05
Speaker 2: Something he was definitely taller than the other. ACTORS i
15:07
Speaker 2: can tell you. That and that's that's the thing that's
15:10
Speaker 2: like sort of the key thing there. IS i think
15:12
Speaker 2: that there's a difference in the, physicality AND i think
15:15
Speaker 2: it's a bias that we all have where when we
15:18
Speaker 2: see a smaller person who's being smart with like we,
15:23
Speaker 2: get we almost have this bias toward them because the
15:26
Speaker 2: larger person is just genetically in our brains and our
15:30
Speaker 2: little lizard brains to be like larger person danger and
15:33
Speaker 2: so it's eliciting that sort of reaction as.
15:36
Speaker 3: Well.
15:37
Speaker 4: Well AND i mean we speak Of, holmes but really
15:41
Speaker 4: it is the duo Of holmes And. Watson like a
15:44
Speaker 4: Bad watson or a Good watson can pivot your entire.
15:48
Speaker 4: Movie AND i also in researching the fifty, nine you
15:53
Speaker 4: Know Cushing, holmes you, Know Andre morrell really pushed to
16:01
Speaker 4: Change watson or go against the kind of established type
16:06
Speaker 4: of the bumbling you Know. Watson like His watson is definitely,
16:11
Speaker 4: sharper definitely. Smarter it's not like he's definitely not anywhere Near,
16:17
Speaker 4: holmes but he doesn't need to, be and he's treated
16:20
Speaker 4: as a colleague and a helpful you know.
16:25
Speaker 3: Position.
16:27
Speaker 1: Yeah Nigel bruce from thirty nine really leaned in to
16:32
Speaker 1: the bumbling fool where it's, like.
16:37
Speaker 3: Why do you does he hold your? Cocaine is that
16:41
Speaker 3: what he? Does is that at his?
16:43
Speaker 2: Job, like, okay listen the what does he? HOLD i
16:48
Speaker 2: have to give a lot of credit to nineteen thirty.
16:50
Speaker 2: Nine the last line in the movie is an offhand
16:54
Speaker 2: reference to the fact That holmes as a heroin Habit that's.
16:57
Speaker 1: Right remind me what he, Said like it's like.
17:00
Speaker 2: The needle he, goes he, Goes watson bring the needle
17:04
Speaker 2: and like the movie ends and it's like that's. It
17:07
Speaker 2: WHAT i was, LIKE i was, like that is mad
17:09
Speaker 2: respect right there that they managed to throw. In they were, like,
17:13
Speaker 2: oh this is never going to get past the Hays. Cote,
17:14
Speaker 2: ah we could do. It this, way and it's, like
17:16
Speaker 2: don't even give time to think about. It and it's
17:18
Speaker 2: probably one of those things where people missed, it you,
17:21
Speaker 2: know for, years but LIKE i was just sitting there
17:24
Speaker 2: watching for it because it's not. There in the fifty nine.
17:27
Speaker 2: Version holmes is much more respectable in his, habits AND
17:33
Speaker 2: i found that actually a little interesting BECAUSE i was
17:39
Speaker 2: expecting it since it was A hammer film and they
17:42
Speaker 2: were known for putting out really schlocky horror. STUFF i was, like,
17:47
Speaker 2: oh there's got to be some sort of like more
17:49
Speaker 2: direct reference than, that and there, wasn't not THAT i.
17:52
Speaker 2: Detected and it's, like, WELL i, mean if it was
17:55
Speaker 2: a direct reference AND i missed, it then ooh, ooh
17:57
Speaker 2: that's to. Me but, like it was interesting to me
18:00
Speaker 2: BECAUSE i actually, expected twenty years later with a horror,
18:04
Speaker 2: studio for them to be more acknowledging of. It BUT i,
18:08
Speaker 2: guess you, know this, stig you, know the stigma still
18:11
Speaker 2: there and all of those sorts of.
18:12
Speaker 3: Things SO i just thought it was.
18:13
Speaker 1: Interesting before we move on to the supporting, CHARACTERS i
18:17
Speaker 1: want to go back just a little, bit back To.
18:19
Speaker 1: Holmes SO i read SOME i read somebody's comment online
18:23
Speaker 1: where it Said Rathbones holmes is what we Think holmes
18:26
Speaker 1: should be And cushings is What holmes probably. Was how
18:31
Speaker 1: do you how would you rate? That do you do
18:34
Speaker 1: you think that's? Accurate do you do you have qualms with?
18:37
Speaker 1: It what do you what are you guys?
18:38
Speaker 4: THINKING i mean you're kind of almost looking at the
18:42
Speaker 4: difference between performance and. Caricature you, know it makes me
18:48
Speaker 4: think of another famous. Detective, Well i'm more qualified to
18:54
Speaker 4: judge just from from watching Is Hercule piro Y Agatha
18:59
Speaker 4: christie Because i've seen all Of David suchet's you, know
19:03
Speaker 4: episodes on, it and But i've also seen some of
19:07
Speaker 4: the other you, know fictional, works so THAT i, mean
19:09
Speaker 4: the characters have been around so, long and, yeah when
19:12
Speaker 4: you have and it's very similar where you have one
19:15
Speaker 4: person who for some has kind of represented the character
19:20
Speaker 4: like AND i think Wrath bone gets that just from you, know,
19:25
Speaker 4: Quantity but that doesn't mean you have someone else who
19:29
Speaker 4: comes in obviously is really caring about the, character putting
19:33
Speaker 4: their own spin on. It and IT'S i think it
19:37
Speaker 4: just comes down, to you, know an audience doesn't know
19:41
Speaker 4: what it's ready for until it gets.
19:42
Speaker 3: IT i THINK i think you'd.
19:44
Speaker 4: Have i'm sure there were people in fifty nine who are, like,
19:46
Speaker 4: oh you, know it's not Wrath bone doing. HOMES i
19:51
Speaker 4: don't know IF i want to see. That who could
19:52
Speaker 4: fill his, shoes who could fill his? Pipe and INSTEAD
19:58
Speaker 4: i think we, got you, know because they took THE
20:00
Speaker 4: i don't know IF i would say, chance it probably
20:02
Speaker 4: wasn't that kind of a. Decision but With, cushing you,
20:07
Speaker 4: get you get something, new AND i think, that, uh
20:11
Speaker 4: that comes down to. It but, yeah to your actual,
20:13
Speaker 4: QUESTION i, think, yeah it although it's going to be
20:18
Speaker 4: an interesting ride as we go through things like you
20:21
Speaker 4: Rober Danny. Jr you, know a lot of different actors
20:24
Speaker 4: playing on, it and they're not you, know just you,
20:28
Speaker 4: know your. Listeners we are kind of, skipping you, know
20:31
Speaker 4: we're not we're not going to be looking At, surelock
20:34
Speaker 4: you know with, uh you know The british, Series, yeah
20:40
Speaker 4: where they're deconstructing the care we're not going that, deep
20:43
Speaker 4: like we're just looking at the Traditional.
20:46
Speaker 1: Sherlock and also he's this this CHARACTER i think has
20:50
Speaker 1: The Guinness record of most adaptations in the history of
20:54
Speaker 1: fiction that.
20:57
Speaker 3: FOLLOWS.
20:58
Speaker 2: I I the thing, IS i don't think think it's
21:00
Speaker 2: A i reject sort of the baseline premise behind the
21:03
Speaker 2: question or even the, observation BECAUSE i think what you're
21:05
Speaker 2: seeing is you're just seeing two different Proved, YEAH i
21:09
Speaker 2: JUST i think you're just seeing different approaches to acting
21:13
Speaker 2: and the evolution of film acting over. Time Because cushing
21:17
Speaker 2: is more, natural he's you, know naturalistic or. Whatever he's
21:22
Speaker 2: much more film has settled down a bit by nineteen fifty.
21:26
Speaker 2: Nine there's a little bit less of a stage play
21:29
Speaker 2: sense about, it and so he's a film actor doing.
21:33
Speaker 2: This rathbone very much gives you, know he's giving stage,
21:36
Speaker 2: play and that's right for the. Era it meets the
21:40
Speaker 2: expectation of the. Era so to sit there and, say, oh,
21:43
Speaker 2: Well cushing is a more believable homes that's like, saying, well,
21:47
Speaker 2: yeah everybody was acting more believably by this point because
21:51
Speaker 2: they had figured out what the camera and the music
21:54
Speaker 2: and the editing could do on their. Behalf they weren't
21:58
Speaker 2: still trying to project to the, back and they didn't
22:01
Speaker 2: have to stage everything even to keep it within the
22:05
Speaker 2: four by. Three they had a little more breathing room with,
22:08
Speaker 2: staging and the camera could move a little. Freer they
22:12
Speaker 2: had figured out what angles they could light and get
22:15
Speaker 2: in all of those sorts of. Things SO i kind
22:17
Speaker 2: of reject it. OFFHAND i think they're both equally valid
22:20
Speaker 2: for the time in which they.
22:21
Speaker 1: Exist, WELL i want to do another comparison for. You
22:26
Speaker 1: Richard green Played Henry baskerville in thirty. Nine he was
22:30
Speaker 1: twenty one years old at the time and he was
22:33
Speaker 1: a contract player For. Fox and then you Have Christopher
22:36
Speaker 1: lee in fifty, nine who Played Sir henry at thirty
22:39
Speaker 1: seven years. Old two very different. Portrayals, yeah did one
22:44
Speaker 1: play better for? You did you think each one was
22:47
Speaker 1: good for the material or for the style of the.
22:50
Speaker 1: Movie what did you think about the? Comparison did you Like?
22:54
Speaker 1: LEE i feel like we got a little bit More
22:55
Speaker 1: lee than we Did green on.
22:57
Speaker 3: Camera i'd say that was.
23:00
Speaker 2: FAIR i think That lee definitely Plays green. More is
23:05
Speaker 2: WHAT i would expect a noble to be in the you,
23:09
Speaker 2: know the modern era such as it was then a
23:13
Speaker 2: little bit, haughty you, know he when he can't when
23:16
Speaker 2: he doesn't know homes at, first and he thinks he's
23:19
Speaker 2: just talking to quote unquote the.
23:20
Speaker 3: Help it's, LIKE i, thought the hell is going on
23:22
Speaker 3: with my? Shoes what's wrong with? You sort of. Thing
23:24
Speaker 3: oh this Is Sherlock. Holmes, Oh i'm so, sorry pardon.
23:27
Speaker 2: Me it's nice to talk to, you like that whole
23:29
Speaker 2: sort of two faced way of dealing with the, world
23:33
Speaker 2: where it's, like, oh you're of the proper, station that
23:35
Speaker 2: that whole class based nonsense that that's baked into that
23:40
Speaker 2: and you, know WHEREAS i, think you, KNOW i didn't
23:44
Speaker 2: really have a sense of a character in thirty nine
23:47
Speaker 2: so much as a, presence you, Know and it's, LIKE
23:51
Speaker 2: i don't know if that's the fault of the actor
23:52
Speaker 2: so much as, again the, Speed LIKE i think thirty
23:56
Speaker 2: nine is very focused on Giving rathbone the stage and, Saying,
24:00
Speaker 2: okay everybody just follow. Him basil's gonna get us, around
24:05
Speaker 2: and you're gonna play off of him because he's the,
24:07
Speaker 2: star he's the main. Character and it's a very, again
24:10
Speaker 2: a very staged sort of vibe to.
24:13
Speaker 1: It, darren what did you think about the supporting cast
24:16
Speaker 1: and even outside Of Sir, Henry, like did you think
24:19
Speaker 1: one was stronger than the, other because there's, oftentimes you,
24:22
Speaker 1: know sometimes the supporting cast doesn't really matter and there's
24:26
Speaker 1: just background and set, dressing and other times it can
24:29
Speaker 1: make or break your.
24:30
Speaker 4: Film it's interesting because this is WHERE i, mean we
24:35
Speaker 4: almost get INTO i always want to say it's a different,
24:38
Speaker 4: Story LIKE i know it's the same, story but is
24:42
Speaker 4: very different as far as you, KNOW i, mean the lead,
24:45
Speaker 4: woman like she's she's a bad guy in one and
24:48
Speaker 4: a good guy in the, Other like that's a bit
24:50
Speaker 4: of a difference between the. Two ALTHOUGH i did really
24:55
Speaker 4: Enjoy Christopher, lee it was one of those rare moments
24:59
Speaker 4: nowadays WHERE i did not recognize him for a good
25:02
Speaker 4: chunk of the movie because he is so young. LOOKING
25:06
Speaker 4: i didn't look up the credits or anything like. THAT
25:08
Speaker 4: i just hit play AND i was, like oh my,
25:11
Speaker 4: gosh That's Christopher, lee like younger Than i'll get, out
25:15
Speaker 4: BECAUSE i think at this POINT i the youngest thing
25:17
Speaker 4: i'd seen him in Was man with The Golden gun as.
25:21
Speaker 3: Far as his.
25:21
Speaker 4: Age obviously much more things, recently but, yeah JUST i
25:28
Speaker 4: think both supporting casts are appropriate for the tone they're going,
25:35
Speaker 4: for because the first you, know thirty nine is definitely
25:38
Speaker 4: like like they look at each, other they get puppy,
25:41
Speaker 4: eyes and they fall in love and they walk off
25:42
Speaker 4: into the sunset like it's very. Romanticized that is not
25:47
Speaker 4: the story of fifty nine and like, it what was?
25:52
Speaker 1: THAT i don't. KNOW i don't even know how to qualify.
25:56
Speaker 2: That it's what the kids want to, see you, Understand,
25:58
Speaker 2: Tristan that's what they's.
25:59
Speaker 3: People he's got to get the girl and she's got
26:02
Speaker 3: to be. Good. Yeah. Story.
26:04
Speaker 2: Yeah the people they're harder earn. Money they want to
26:06
Speaker 2: see the guy get the. Girl, okay they got to
26:08
Speaker 2: walk off into the. Sunset he's got your.
26:09
Speaker 1: Hand, ALSO i don't think my instinct would ever be
26:14
Speaker 1: to chase after a woman to ask her why she's
26:19
Speaker 1: running away from.
26:19
Speaker 2: ME i don't understand that the time before Cell Phone's.
26:24
Speaker 2: Trystan it was a lot harder now.
26:26
Speaker 1: Because it hurts some bars because it happened two times
26:29
Speaker 1: in a. Row it happened two times in a, row
26:31
Speaker 1: like pretty close. Together we're's just, like, hey, hey, you
26:35
Speaker 1: why are you running? Away tell me stop so you
26:38
Speaker 1: can tell. Me it was just so LIKE i won't kill.
26:42
Speaker 1: You i'm a nice, boy you, Know like, no it's
26:44
Speaker 1: it's it's. Weird it's.
26:46
Speaker 2: WEIRD i you know, AGAIN i think it just gets
26:50
Speaker 2: to that sort of like overblown sort of approach to certain,
26:55
Speaker 2: things you, know and IT'S i, MEAN i have to
26:59
Speaker 2: get of a little bit of credit to AND i
27:02
Speaker 2: always forget what the ancestors name. IS i, apologize that's
27:06
Speaker 2: that's just WHO i, am the Original baskerville that the
27:10
Speaker 2: curse is visited upon first or. Whatever and is that
27:17
Speaker 2: Sir Hugo? Baskerville was That hugo was the original?
27:20
Speaker 3: One probably? Him, yeah, yeah here you.
27:21
Speaker 2: GO i really got to give credit to To, ox
27:27
Speaker 2: To david Ox, day BECAUSE i thought he was he
27:30
Speaker 2: was very. VILLAINOUS i thought. THAT i, mean obviously in
27:36
Speaker 2: thirty nine they're dancing around what he's up, to although
27:44
Speaker 2: we all, know but they're staying in a very different.
27:46
Speaker 2: Way whereas they, really you, know they really highlight what
27:51
Speaker 2: an absolute tool he, was not just to the, woman
27:56
Speaker 2: but like he is man handling and like just absolutely if,
28:03
Speaker 2: anything you can look at it and, say, well that's
28:05
Speaker 2: actually a real condemnation of what the nobles got away
28:08
Speaker 2: with before the quote unquote modern. Age so whereas it's
28:12
Speaker 2: almost like you could See Christopher lee being the watered
28:15
Speaker 2: down a hole that's the ascendant of That baskerville better
28:21
Speaker 2: than you could see the sort of idea of lineage or.
28:24
Speaker 2: Anything because the characters are very thin in thirty, nine
28:27
Speaker 2: those characters again are just in service of what Does
28:31
Speaker 2: homes need to to? Solve BUT i, MEAN i want
28:34
Speaker 2: to bounce out the. Question holmes essentially disappears for a
28:39
Speaker 2: substantial portion of the nineteen thirty nine, One like he's
28:42
Speaker 2: a non entity for a giant chunk of the, film
28:45
Speaker 2: and it's like did that? WORK i, mean like the
28:48
Speaker 2: disguise PART i was disappointed didn't carry over to fifty
28:52
Speaker 2: nine BECAUSE i wanted to see How Peter cushing would
28:56
Speaker 2: carry that. Off but that's the one moment WHERE i
28:59
Speaker 2: thought That rathbone actually kind of, shined was being the
29:04
Speaker 2: the poor guy trans.
29:06
Speaker 3: Guys, yeah, Yeah.
29:10
Speaker 4: It's it's one of those things, where again not Knowing
29:14
Speaker 4: holmes like the stories very, well it's, like oh, YEAH
29:19
Speaker 4: i mean if you Pulled america and said name the
29:24
Speaker 4: actual name of A Sherlock holmes, mystery most would probably
29:29
Speaker 4: say how to The. Baskervills it's, like as far as
29:32
Speaker 4: actually knowing the name of, ONE i couldn't name an
29:35
Speaker 4: actual other. Title so it's one of those, like oh,
29:38
Speaker 4: well but it's not actually the best story like at.
29:42
Speaker 3: All like it's like you.
29:44
Speaker 4: Said his huge chunks where he's not. There it's Very watson.
29:49
Speaker 4: Heavy it reminds, again reminds me of some per episodes
29:53
Speaker 4: where the secondary characters kind of go off and pros
29:56
Speaker 4: stuck in bed and he's just sending letters and you're,
29:59
Speaker 4: LIKE i.
30:00
Speaker 3: Came here to see. Him why AM i spending all
30:02
Speaker 3: this time with the The watson?
30:05
Speaker 4: Character but, YEAH i agree with, You, JOHN i think
30:09
Speaker 4: part of it is again not exactly having the best
30:13
Speaker 4: sense of what Rat bone looks. Like and it's thirty
30:16
Speaker 4: nine and it's black and, white so he plays a
30:19
Speaker 4: very convincing tramp of if you didn't know for a,
30:22
Speaker 4: while like that that's who that. Is it fools you
30:26
Speaker 4: as the audience. Member, NOW i don't know if it
30:28
Speaker 4: did in thirty. NINE i can't put myself in those.
30:30
Speaker 4: Shoes but, yeah but they were all very jolly about.
30:35
Speaker 4: IT i guess that's just the thirty nine everyone's, happy it's.
30:37
Speaker 1: All, yeah there, Was, yeah there was a few moments
30:42
Speaker 1: where you're just kind of, like why is everyone so?
30:44
Speaker 1: Jovial people are?
30:45
Speaker 3: Dying, well.
30:49
Speaker 2: We had a more you, know relaxed view of mortality back.
30:55
Speaker 2: THEN i guess they just figured it was going to.
30:57
Speaker 2: Die it had you, know you, KNOW i mean remind
31:00
Speaker 2: the lack of urgency to run after the carriage with
31:05
Speaker 2: that's gonna. Shoot, uh you, know like in the, beginning
31:08
Speaker 2: it's like, no, no just wait and. Watch look there's
31:11
Speaker 2: a gun sticking.
31:13
Speaker 3: Out, yeah very slow about really.
31:18
Speaker 2: Easily what could possibly the intent of the person in
31:21
Speaker 2: the carriage.
31:22
Speaker 3: Be and it's, like you, know THAT'S i. Did like,
31:28
Speaker 3: again you, KNOW i don't live in that.
31:30
Speaker 4: Era but there's a little like little tiny door leading
31:34
Speaker 4: up to the coach, mince we can talk to his
31:36
Speaker 4: Fair it makes total.
31:37
Speaker 3: Sense But i'm just, like, oh that's so. COOL i
31:39
Speaker 3: didn't even know.
31:40
Speaker 2: That oh that's in case the carriage fell over so
31:43
Speaker 2: that you could get.
31:43
Speaker 3: OUT i imagine the.
31:45
Speaker 4: Emergency would bowl handle from. This that's a, bus think
31:48
Speaker 4: of a school.
31:48
Speaker 3: Bus oh didn't they use those as school buses back?
31:52
Speaker 3: Then maybe is that what it?
31:53
Speaker 1: WAS i don't. KNOW i don't know cinematography, wise getting
31:57
Speaker 1: back on. Truck so SO i think the main difference
32:01
Speaker 1: is you have fog in. Color AND i would love to, Know,
32:06
Speaker 1: darren was there anything that kind of struck struck you
32:11
Speaker 1: as the main, differences because like With Marley, Pevroll marley
32:16
Speaker 1: in thirty. Nine you, know this guy worked with the
32:18
Speaker 1: Mill lubitch and you know he was kind of known
32:22
Speaker 1: for working in shadows and limited budget and that's why
32:25
Speaker 1: he was brought. On and you Have Jack asher in fifty,
32:30
Speaker 1: nine who was the go to cinematographer At, hammer and
32:36
Speaker 1: it WAS i feel, like not only was it, color
32:41
Speaker 1: but you had really great saturation with the colors that
32:45
Speaker 1: you get in fifty, nine like the greens and the
32:47
Speaker 1: earth tones and everything like. That and even though the dog,
32:50
Speaker 1: sucked it was you know fully it was fully. Visible you,
32:54
Speaker 1: know you could at least see, it even if it
32:57
Speaker 1: was to his. Detriment AND i just loved the horror
33:01
Speaker 1: vocab that. Was that was mo, no, no THE i,
33:06
Speaker 1: mean what wasn't color and one's. Not BUT i will
33:09
Speaker 1: say this to the thirty nine. ONE i mean it's
33:13
Speaker 1: obviously on a, stage but they get every ounce out
33:17
Speaker 1: of that, stage like it is really really well.
33:19
Speaker 4: Shot AND i think you just expected, That like no,
33:21
Speaker 4: one there was No internet, guys there's no blog bros
33:26
Speaker 4: who were just, like oh my, GOSH i can't believe
33:28
Speaker 4: they shot the New Sherlock holmes on a stage, Again like.
33:32
Speaker 3: No that was just what you, did you cranked it,
33:34
Speaker 3: out you got it.
33:35
Speaker 4: Into you, know we were still recovering from The Great
33:38
Speaker 4: depression or, something something was. Happening we really wanted our
33:41
Speaker 4: shows something. Terrible i'm sure something terrible was. Happening terrible
33:44
Speaker 4: was right around that. TIME i don't know.
33:46
Speaker 1: WHAT i don't know what was going on at thirty
33:48
Speaker 1: nine if it was a big, deal but you, know
33:50
Speaker 1: but for the.
33:52
Speaker 4: Fifty, nine, yeah it looked, amazing And i'm just so
33:56
Speaker 4: glad it was an era where we don't care where
33:59
Speaker 4: the source comes. From we're in a, tomb we're, underground
34:03
Speaker 4: we're in a, cave it doesn't. Matter you can see.
34:05
Speaker 4: Everything it's all beautifully, lit not. Flat it's not you,
34:10
Speaker 4: know like they threw a couple of knos up on the.
34:12
Speaker 4: Wall BUT i, MEAN i, JUST i Just i'm Just
34:16
Speaker 4: i'm still recovering from like the, teens where it was like,
34:20
Speaker 4: nope there's a candle in this scene that is the
34:22
Speaker 4: only light source and it is black and dark as.
34:26
Speaker 2: Night, yes we we hit this all the. Time but
34:31
Speaker 2: WHAT i really watching an Old technicolor movie like this
34:35
Speaker 2: really makes me miss is just the fact that you said, It,
34:40
Speaker 2: darren it's not. Flat you, know we have color, now
34:43
Speaker 2: and it's just it's washed out all the.
34:46
Speaker 3: Time or color. Time it's just it's like we're going
34:48
Speaker 3: to recolor, everything.
34:49
Speaker 2: Right whereas this the, colors like you, said trist and there's,
34:53
Speaker 2: saturation there's a richness to the picture that, like even
34:57
Speaker 2: Though i'm watching the visual dual equivalent of a McDonald's happy,
35:02
Speaker 2: meal it's still something That i'm, like it's triggering that that,
35:08
Speaker 2: baseline you, know Oh, god like there's it feels almost,
35:13
Speaker 2: painterly you know that it's so vibrant and so hyper.
35:20
Speaker 2: Real it's not concerned with being like this is what
35:22
Speaker 2: it would look like IF i was really walking. Around,
35:25
Speaker 2: No i'm watching a. MOVIE i Know i'm watching a.
35:28
Speaker 2: Movie use the rest of it to fool. Me don't
35:31
Speaker 2: don't try to cheap out on the, eye you, know
35:35
Speaker 2: stuff and everything like. That it's, just you, Know Hammer
35:39
Speaker 2: films as a, whole they released some real, stinkers but
35:44
Speaker 2: they always had beautiful color when they you, know when
35:49
Speaker 2: they were in, color they were always just absolutely gorgeous
35:52
Speaker 2: to look. At you should look at some of the
35:54
Speaker 2: Old Christopher lee As dracula. Movies the saturations and those
35:58
Speaker 2: are insane and, yeah the blood is bright. Red but so,
36:05
Speaker 2: What LIKE i, SAID i, Know i'm not really watching a. Documentary,
36:10
Speaker 2: okay it's, fine it's. Fine have everything stand out and the,
36:13
Speaker 2: colors you, know pop against each other and.
36:16
Speaker 1: Everything so so story, wise we all texted each other
36:21
Speaker 1: after we watched thirty, nine, GOING i don't, know, GUYS
36:26
Speaker 1: i would love to know your guys's, opinion Because i'm
36:28
Speaker 1: going to be. UPFRONT i did not like nineteen thirty.
36:31
Speaker 1: NINE i thought there was just there was just nothing.
36:35
Speaker 1: THERE i feel like the characterization Of sherlock is. GOOD
36:39
Speaker 1: i Think rathbone is a Great. SHERLOCK i Thought watson was.
36:42
Speaker 1: ATROCIOUS i didn't understand what was going on half the.
36:46
Speaker 1: TIME i was, like AND i didn't feel LIKE i
36:48
Speaker 1: needed to. Care there are people who really like this,
36:51
Speaker 1: movie and that's and that's. Great you, know like there
36:53
Speaker 1: are people who are, like this is My halloween movie
36:55
Speaker 1: and it's very, atmospheric but it feels like it got
37:00
Speaker 1: cranked out on a. Studio it feels, Like, okay the
37:03
Speaker 1: kids need to we need those kids nickels to watch
37:07
Speaker 1: on A saturday, night and this is what we're going
37:09
Speaker 1: to give. Them that's kind of what it felt like
37:12
Speaker 1: being too. Harsh, no what do you guys?
37:14
Speaker 3: Think, no not at. All it's it's quality mass.
37:18
Speaker 2: Media it's a good episode, basically you, know of a decent.
37:23
Speaker 1: Show what do you mean what do you mean by?
37:25
Speaker 3: That do you mean LIKE tv? Level it's LIKE tv.
37:28
Speaker 2: Level it's like it's, like this feels like SOMETHING i
37:31
Speaker 2: would watch on an OLD tv show where it's, like,
37:33
Speaker 2: Yeah i'm not going to change the. Channel it's engaging.
37:36
Speaker 2: ENOUGH i don't really feel like looking.
37:37
Speaker 3: Around it's.
37:38
Speaker 2: Fine i'm basically saying the same thing you're, saying where
37:41
Speaker 2: it's like you might have hated it a little, more
37:45
Speaker 2: BUT i didn't hate. IT i was just, like, eh you,
37:49
Speaker 2: KNOW i recognize the limitations of the time and what
37:52
Speaker 2: it was trying to, do and Rath bone does do
37:55
Speaker 2: his thing, here AND i think that probably the most
38:02
Speaker 2: damning sort of thing you could say IS i know
38:05
Speaker 2: other things that came out in nineteen thirty nine that
38:07
Speaker 2: were so substantially. BETTER i don't understand why this does
38:11
Speaker 2: not even approach. Them this isn't even.
38:14
Speaker 3: Trying this is basically like.
38:16
Speaker 2: Just it's you know what it is is it's basically
38:20
Speaker 2: The gothic fantasy version Of Flash, gordon where it's, like
38:24
Speaker 2: this is not designed to be art at, all and
38:27
Speaker 2: you can tell it's, designed like you, Said tristan to
38:31
Speaker 2: get the Kids, Nickels i'm gonna throw you read you
38:35
Speaker 2: Read Sherlock.
38:36
Speaker 1: Holmes.
38:36
Speaker 3: Here, look it's a.
38:37
Speaker 2: Movie we're gonna put this, up you, know and we'll
38:40
Speaker 2: pair it up With gone with The wind OR i don't,
38:41
Speaker 2: know something like.
38:42
Speaker 3: That i'll let the movie house figure Out gone With
38:44
Speaker 3: them is long, enough we'll just tap it on the.
38:46
Speaker 3: Front no one will have.
38:47
Speaker 2: Noticed, yeah we'll put it an intermission Of gone with The.
38:50
Speaker 2: Wind give everybody enough time to get through the.
38:52
Speaker 4: BATHROOM i, MEAN i think my point can be summed
38:56
Speaker 4: up by if you told, ME i, mean you did
38:59
Speaker 4: tell me to said that this is the movie that
39:01
Speaker 4: launched fifteen movies with Wrath, bone LIKE i would HAVE
39:07
Speaker 4: i would have been shocked if you'd said this is
39:09
Speaker 4: the one, where oh, man we got to see more
39:12
Speaker 4: of him and this specific. Character it's did it make
39:16
Speaker 4: like eight times this? Budget it must have or done
39:19
Speaker 4: something with the money or been so easy to. MAKE
39:22
Speaker 4: i don't, know because it is definitely not the And
39:25
Speaker 4: i'm trying not to look at it with modern, sensibilities
39:28
Speaker 4: but this is not the one that launches the saga.
39:34
Speaker 3: At.
39:34
Speaker 4: All but, yeah NOW i think, AGAIN i Think rathbone.
39:40
Speaker 4: Does he's the best part of, it he really. Is
39:42
Speaker 4: and maybe that's all that was, needed is we found
39:45
Speaker 4: a guy to Play Sherlock holmes in a way that
39:49
Speaker 4: people want to, see and they brought Their.
39:51
Speaker 3: NICKELS i don't know WHY i keep talking About nichols.
39:53
Speaker 1: But thinking About nickelodeon's now for some.
39:57
Speaker 4: Reason but, yeah but then you know versus fifty, nine you,
40:02
Speaker 4: know that was or one last thing on thirty. Nine
40:06
Speaker 4: Like john, said IF tv had been a thing as
40:09
Speaker 4: much as it was in, like you, know, fifties, sixties,
40:13
Speaker 4: seventies if it had been like that in the, thirties
40:16
Speaker 4: this would have been a this isn't made FOR tv.
40:18
Speaker 3: Movie BEFORE tv he became a.
40:20
Speaker 2: Thing, yeah and it probably played a lot in the, fifties,
40:24
Speaker 2: Right and somebody there with kids in the fifties is, like, oh,
40:29
Speaker 2: yeah this is safe and this is fine to. Watch,
40:32
Speaker 2: Sure and it's, like you, know you'd have this on
40:34
Speaker 2: a Rainy saturday. Afternoon it wouldn't bother you. None the
40:37
Speaker 2: word big like hanging out.
40:38
Speaker 3: Hadn't been invented. Yet, YEAH i, know, Right Like i'm
40:41
Speaker 3: gonna binge all the Wrath. Bons what are you? What
40:44
Speaker 3: what heroin are you? Injecting that doesn't make any, Sense.
40:47
Speaker 1: Son so to answer your, question so the thirty nine
40:51
Speaker 1: was successful enough to launch the Rath bone series like
40:54
Speaker 1: you talked, about and it kind of became the template
40:56
Speaker 1: for homes for, decades And fox and actually didn't plan
41:01
Speaker 1: on making this a. Series it was it was, programmatic you, Know,
41:04
Speaker 1: john like you alluded, to it was it was. Programatical
41:07
Speaker 1: they're just, like we're just gonna we just got this
41:09
Speaker 1: idea and we're gonna we're gonna pump this. Out but
41:13
Speaker 1: it made enough money they're just, Like, okay let's do another.
41:15
Speaker 1: One and then it moved on and they're just, like
41:18
Speaker 1: let's just keep. Going we're gonna keep going as long
41:20
Speaker 1: as we get those, kids, Nickels we're just gonna keep
41:22
Speaker 1: on making. More and with fifty nine it performed, okay
41:28
Speaker 1: like it performed well For hammer, specifically.
41:31
Speaker 3: That's an important thing to.
41:32
Speaker 1: Say, Yeah like for For, hammer, yeah it was very,
41:36
Speaker 1: good but overall it kind of got mixed, reviews and
41:41
Speaker 1: so that like that was that like it. Was it
41:44
Speaker 1: was one of those movies that kind of grew with
41:47
Speaker 1: the invention of home.
41:49
Speaker 2: Media, YEAH i, mean you, KNOW i can definitely see
41:52
Speaker 2: sort of a missile over, stated but more of a
41:56
Speaker 2: camp appeal For hound of The baskerville's fifty nine because
42:00
Speaker 2: there's an affection.
42:01
Speaker 3: Here AND, i you, KNOW i grew.
42:04
Speaker 2: UP i became a horror fan early because of a
42:08
Speaker 2: book dedicated To Hammer. Films AND i never saw any
42:13
Speaker 2: of the, movies but it was a big, book glossy.
42:16
Speaker 2: PAGES i WISH i still had, it AND i would
42:19
Speaker 2: sit there AND i WOULD i was a very young,
42:23
Speaker 2: kid AND i would flip the pages and it Had
42:25
Speaker 2: chris Pher lee As frankenstein As, dracula probably sixteen other
42:30
Speaker 2: creatures THAT i couldn't name right, now but, like.
42:33
Speaker 3: You would see this stuff and it was really.
42:35
Speaker 2: Something this is an attempt by the horror movie making
42:42
Speaker 2: machine to do something a little more. Respectable it is
42:47
Speaker 2: the way THAT i take. It and they're they're, like,
42:49
Speaker 2: oh we can do the good stuff, Too, yeah, right
42:52
Speaker 2: you trust us with this other. Stuff we could do,
42:54
Speaker 2: this but it's gonna be The Hammer films version of.
42:56
Speaker 3: It AND i gotta give.
42:58
Speaker 2: Them credit for it because it stays it's more of
43:02
Speaker 2: a horror movie of its, time closer to a horror
43:06
Speaker 2: movie of its time than it is just that sort
43:10
Speaker 2: of Procedural holmes is going to show up and figure
43:13
Speaker 2: out the crime sort of. Thing there's more of an
43:16
Speaker 2: element of danger and suspense about it than there is
43:19
Speaker 2: with a thirty nine. Version AND i BUT i freely
43:24
Speaker 2: will admit THAT i have a an emotional leaning Toward Hammer.
43:28
Speaker 2: Films just seeing the you, Know Hammer films presents in the,
43:34
Speaker 2: Beginning i'm instantly disposed toward loving, it like out of the.
43:38
Speaker 3: Gate so and.
43:40
Speaker 4: One last Thing i'll say IS i feel it's hard
43:44
Speaker 4: to judge the farther back in film. History.
43:47
Speaker 3: GO i, mean we will judge because that's the point
43:49
Speaker 3: of our.
43:49
Speaker 4: Podcast BUT i, mean it was the landscape of movies
43:54
Speaker 4: was so different in the late, Thirties LIKE i, MEAN
43:58
Speaker 4: i have, to you, know you break it down to
44:00
Speaker 4: the basics, of you, know, okay this is kick you
44:04
Speaker 4: know what else was there entertainment? Wise how much did tickets, cost,
44:07
Speaker 4: who what kind of part of the economy went to?
44:10
Speaker 4: Movies who brought their kids who Read sherlock to, them
44:15
Speaker 4: so they knew about it like all these little factors
44:18
Speaker 4: THAT i can't even picture what the landscape looked like
44:22
Speaker 4: because it's so far removed from modern day and there's
44:26
Speaker 4: so many things now of like oh, yeah i've binge
44:30
Speaker 4: watched all Of, sherlock or OH i read that for,
44:32
Speaker 4: school or like, again those weren't things or they could have,
44:36
Speaker 4: been but we just don't. Know so it's so hard to.
44:39
Speaker 4: Place all we can really look at is the result
44:43
Speaker 4: of like you, Said, tristan it was enough to keep it,
44:46
Speaker 4: going and it it ticked all the right boxes of his,
44:51
Speaker 4: affordable enough to make the actors wanted to do it
44:54
Speaker 4: or had to do, it you, know the all the
44:56
Speaker 4: pieces came. Together but but also To john's, point like
45:01
Speaker 4: we know some couple of little films at thirty nine
45:04
Speaker 4: that you, know we're not made a.
45:07
Speaker 1: Splash it made a.
45:08
Speaker 5: Splash, yeah all, Right, Well i'm going to switch up
45:12
Speaker 5: the formula a little, bit just because you just got done, Talking,
45:15
Speaker 5: darren And i'm going to ask You john for your
45:18
Speaker 5: final ratings on both of.
45:20
Speaker 2: These baskerville's happy to help you out as much credit
45:24
Speaker 2: AS i have to give the nineteen thirty nine to
45:25
Speaker 2: one for referencing heroin use in its last. LINE i
45:31
Speaker 2: was actually very underwhelmed by. IT i MAYBE i went
45:35
Speaker 2: in with expectations that were too, high AND i thought
45:39
Speaker 2: it was exactly everything that we've been saying it. Is
45:42
Speaker 2: SO i gave it two. STARS i go back and.
45:45
Speaker 2: FORTH i THINK i might have been a little too
45:46
Speaker 2: generous BECAUSE i don't Think i'll ever watch this. Again
45:50
Speaker 2: BUT i might just be inclined to be generous BECAUSE
45:54
Speaker 2: i know what it. Caused, so you, know grading on
45:58
Speaker 2: a curve the nineteen fifty nine, VERSION i wind up
46:02
Speaker 2: coming in even Though i'm predisposed to Loving Hammer films
46:05
Speaker 2: at two and a half, stars BECAUSE i think it
46:08
Speaker 2: still stuffers from some substantial structural. ISSUES i think That
46:14
Speaker 2: Christopher lee plays an unlikable, character which is a. PROBLEM
46:19
Speaker 2: i think that there are still some odd cuts to the,
46:24
Speaker 2: story Like holmes might have been missing for a substantial
46:27
Speaker 2: portion of nineteen thirty, nine but there are certain leaps.
46:31
Speaker 3: In nineteen fifty.
46:32
Speaker 2: Nine or When, holmes you, know comes out of the,
46:34
Speaker 2: cave he's, like, oh, YEAH i found that. OUT i
46:36
Speaker 2: talked to that. Guy what guy who did you talk?
46:39
Speaker 2: To you know that sort of. Thing it's, like, oh
46:41
Speaker 2: that all have it all screen while we were distracting
46:43
Speaker 2: you with this. Stuff all, Right WELL i feel a
46:45
Speaker 2: little cheated, then but. Fine AND i think THAT i
46:49
Speaker 2: am likely to revisit the nineteen fifty nine version just
46:53
Speaker 2: BECAUSE i Love Chrisopher lee so. Much but it's at
46:56
Speaker 2: two and a half. Stars So hound of The, baskervilles
46:59
Speaker 2: we got a little bit of A i think a
47:02
Speaker 2: little bit of stumble here to the start of Our Sherlock,
47:05
Speaker 2: Holmes Marathon darren give it to.
47:08
Speaker 4: Me uh, yeah, NO i mean we've, said we've said it.
47:13
Speaker 4: ALL I i give thirty nine a. One it's it's
47:19
Speaker 4: it's a. One IT'S i can't really give it enough
47:23
Speaker 4: two for what it. STARTED i MEAN i get your,
47:27
Speaker 4: Point john like, that and that is definitely grading on a.
47:30
Speaker 4: CURVE i just the curve's not quite there for. Me
47:33
Speaker 4: AND i will, say, though WHILE i won't watch this one,
47:38
Speaker 4: AGAIN i will look up Because i'm sure someone's ranked
47:42
Speaker 4: all of The Basil Wrath Bone Sherlock holmes and said
47:46
Speaker 4: which is the, Best and And i'll watch that one
47:49
Speaker 4: BECAUSE i do want to see him again in this
47:51
Speaker 4: in the one that everyone says is his. Best and
47:54
Speaker 4: if they say it's out of The. Baskervilles Then i'm
47:57
Speaker 4: just not going to do it because they're. WRONG i,
48:01
Speaker 4: MEAN i highly doubt it's this, one but you never.
48:04
Speaker 4: Know and then as far as fifty, Nine i'm going
48:09
Speaker 4: to give it. THREE i really enjoyed this. MOVIE i
48:14
Speaker 4: think my curve is the fact THAT i had watched thirty,
48:17
Speaker 4: nine SO i did already kind of know the, story
48:19
Speaker 4: so my mind is already kind of filling in some
48:22
Speaker 4: of the gaps that there, are you, know structure story,
48:26
Speaker 4: Wise like it helps the fact THAT i it's LIKE
48:29
Speaker 4: i just read the book before the, movie and so
48:32
Speaker 4: you kind of it's easier to fill. In BUT i
48:35
Speaker 4: really Enjoyed Christopher. LEE i always love seeing him in,
48:38
Speaker 4: roles And Peter cushing was.
48:42
Speaker 3: AMAZING i MEAN i don't think he did another.
48:47
Speaker 4: HOMES i wish he did because that would be great
48:49
Speaker 4: to see as.
48:50
Speaker 3: Well so that was my. Ratings you may file when.
48:55
Speaker 1: Ready, Tristan, yeah it's A i like you talked, About
49:01
Speaker 1: there's there's nothing more THAN i can add to the.
49:03
Speaker 1: CONVERSATION i gave thirty nine a one and a, half
49:07
Speaker 1: So i'm kind of splitting the difference between the two of.
49:09
Speaker 1: YOU i think we're all kind of saying the same.
49:11
Speaker 1: Thing we just have different, Ratio, like we just have different.
49:13
Speaker 1: Scales and for fifty, NINE i give it a. Two
49:17
Speaker 1: i'm never gonna watch either of these. Ever, again there
49:19
Speaker 1: are things THAT i liked more in fifty, nine but
49:22
Speaker 1: not enough to make me think it was a good.
49:24
Speaker 1: Movie so, yeah one and a half and. Two And,
49:27
Speaker 1: john like you, said this is not a great start
49:30
Speaker 1: to the to our wing Of, sherlock but it can
49:34
Speaker 1: only get better from, here right, Right.
49:37
Speaker 2: So long as we Skip Sherlock homes to The Deadly,
49:39
Speaker 2: necklace there's not gonna be any.
49:41
Speaker 3: BACKSLIDING i can probably see.
49:42
Speaker 1: That So, john you, know he he was the Good
49:47
Speaker 1: samaritan and he watched the movie before the rest of
49:50
Speaker 1: us and told us please.
49:51
Speaker 2: Sell his sword is the proper, yeah proper. Term as
49:55
Speaker 2: soon as it, ENDED i sent a, NOTE i, said
49:57
Speaker 2: not this. One we can take this it. Out, no
50:01
Speaker 2: there's nothing worthwhile we.
50:02
Speaker 1: UH i think there's really only one or two other
50:06
Speaker 1: times in the history of this podcast where one of
50:08
Speaker 1: us started either watched it all or started watching it
50:12
Speaker 1: and we're, like we can't talk about this.
50:14
Speaker 2: More oh, yeah oh oh. GOD i it was What
50:17
Speaker 2: Oprah winfrey was in Was?
50:19
Speaker 1: Beloved WAS i love?
50:20
Speaker 3: It that's oh, yeah where it's like almost all of.
50:22
Speaker 2: Us we got like five or ten minutes in and
50:24
Speaker 2: we were, like oh this this doesn't feel, Good.
50:27
Speaker 1: Like we, can't we. CANNOT i don't like you want
50:30
Speaker 1: to keep watching? It? Yeah, yeah all, Right, Well, darren
50:35
Speaker 1: what are We what are we doing next? Week now
50:37
Speaker 1: that we know what we're not doing next, Week.
50:40
Speaker 4: Well we've covered nineteen thirty, nine nineteen fifty. Nine we're
50:43
Speaker 4: gonna jump another span of time into the seventies with
50:47
Speaker 4: the seven percent solution from nineteen seventy. Six our next
50:52
Speaker 4: visit the wing Of Sherlock. Holmes here On House, Lights join.
50:57
Speaker 1: The, Revolution join the Net. Party