Latest / I Hate Soccer with Jason Collinsworth / I Hate Soccer 138 - Eric Dutt, Ohio Premier Director of Player Development

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I Hate Soccer 138 - Eric Dutt, Ohio Premier Director of Player Development · I Hate Soccer with Jason Collinsworth

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Eric Dunn is the boys formation director and Ohio premiere.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um previously he spent three years in the Columbus crew.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um he was also with ten from Ohio premiere.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Three minutes time with the Columbus crew.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: He also has the lead formation coaching.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: So we just talk about club how to hound players in the order of skin.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Great idea of the hibble terminology.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: We have a really good discussion about how we develop vertical players, or should we hone into the players?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Superpower.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: A little bit of coming the last release date, the brilliant amazing episode.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: We have like 950 downloads in one day.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's the most number in a single day.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we're gonna get to 100,000 in the calendar year of 2000 26.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Simple.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, thank you, thank you.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: We also just get 39,000 Instagram followers.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Simple.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't follow me on Instagram, but you listen to the show and you like the show, go and give I'm gonna hate Snacker Podcast a follow.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: My goal was to get to 40,000 by Christmas, name it.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: 40,000 by Thanksgiving.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you guys so much.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Enjoy getting into Eric.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: I hate Snucker.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: I forget his name.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Is this the men's head?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, and we're just gonna start.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, quite there for four years.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Who's the coach?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Who's the head coach when I was there?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Jeff Gettler.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Jeff Gettler, he one of the things in his bio that I was always fascinated about was that he's been to like every World Cup final or every World Cup in Euro for like 20 or 30 years in a row.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I would always like look at bios of like the top coaches in the country, and I was always like enamored with their backgrounds.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I always thought that that guy was like soccer junkie.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: So where are you originally from?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up in Florida.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Where did you play?
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh everywhere.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Lived in Melbourne, played Melbourne, Florida.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Played for the Cocoa Expos when I was in high school.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Put club soccer in Lakeland.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: So did a bit of commuting back and forth, but that was 25-30 years ago now.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a Michigan guy.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a Detroit Tigers fan, and Lakeland, Florida is they do have spring training.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I what's the number one sport in those areas where there's all ballparks in the spring?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Is is baseball like really strong or is it soccer?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: I uh honestly couldn't couldn't tell you.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was yeah so focused on soccer at that point that I don't really I didn't really know what what went out on outside of my uh my domain.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: And just think about how much soccer's changed uh in terms of like the recruiting.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: And because when we were coming up, how old are you?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: 44.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm 41.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like just think about how much professionalized the sport has.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the topics that we were talking about was like how much better coaches were.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: I never had a I never had a full-time youth coach, and certainly didn't have a high school, or even my college coach wasn't a full-time soccer person, he was a professor uh where I played.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know what I mean?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: And and now everything's kind of evolved.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I would say that when I was growing up, I was fortunate enough to be coached by some some really good youth soccer coaches, and just like everything else, like the science, the science improves, the data improves, you learn things that were that we thought were right at one point, now get debunked, and now we've got to learn something new.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that's the evolution of of time is you you learn different things, and either you apply what you learn or you keep doing the same thing over and over.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: And if I were to continue doing the same things that I did when I was a player, I would be a dinosaur and I would be irrelevant or hoping I would be irrelevant because the game has evolved, the the difference in I mean, the rules have changed.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that dictates some of the things that are more impressive in the games or more common in the games is we can't just pass the ball back to our goalkeeper anymore and have him pick it up.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like we have to find different solutions to different problems now.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: So the game has evolved um a lot and is continuing to evolve, and and new managers bring new ideas and some that are revolutionary and never never seen before, and and some have different ideas about what's successful or important in the game, and and sometimes they're successful too.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean it's it's all about doing what you think is right as a coach and and believing in it.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I mean, I was a goalkeeper, I was I was a field player too, but mostly a goalkeeper, and they could throw the ball into me.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like you could pass the ball back to you and think about it.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Think about that, yeah, and and how much that has changed.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: And think about goal kicks.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: One of my knocks on my like recruiting file was my goalkeep, my goal kicks weren't far enough.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: My punts were perfect, yeah, but my goal kicks were not far enough.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now you have to just kick it one inch.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: I w I was I was I wish I could play in this environment where I could just kick it a foot and then just build out of the back.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, yeah.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: And do you think that there's a lot of coaches that are stuck in their ways?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: You ever run into the dinosaurs?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I think it's all about what you're willing to learn.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: And like for new coaches, their biggest references are what they did as a player.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: So for sure.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: So if if a new coach is just coming out and it's their first year of coaching, the only references they have as to a coach is what they've done as a player.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so hopefully they go through experiences, reflect on those experiences, are open to feedback, are willing to go get coaching licenses and learn, and then they have more references and better references.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: So now that they've have a different perspective or more education or more knowledge, more experience, hopefully they're using those updated references to coach their players rather than the ones they just did when they were 15 years old.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: So hopefully that the learning process of coaches is helping them become better.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, there are lots of coaches that have many different ways to play, and and some of them are what they did in college, some of them are what they did as a pro player, but ultimately, like youth soccer for me is very different in terms of what their objective is than than say what players are doing when they're 25 or 15 or 18.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like the game changes a little bit, the objectives change.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: The so if they're doing what they did when they were a player 10 years later, then they're probably haven't gotten the most updated references in terms of what teaching means, what the game is doing, how to how to take the references that are in their brain and put them with the children, with the players.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: How old were you when you started coaching?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was a I think my first coaching gig was at a high school in Richmond, Virginia, when I was a senior in senior college.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Is that when you realized you wanted to coach?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Or did was it before that, or was it really after that?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I mean, I I went through, I mean, soccer was was really great for me as a player.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I knew that I wanted to continue in soccer.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, obviously got a a business degree when I was at University of Richmond, but at some point I'm like, I'm not sure I'm the the corporate world is what I want to do.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then I went and got a master's degree in sports leadership and tried to do something else in soccer for six months and quickly realized that that that was a path that wasn't enjoyable for me.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: So then I full-time committed myself to becoming a coach and becoming better at it and dedicating my the next 25 years of my life to it.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: So all right.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: How long have you been with OP?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh this is my third year, so came in.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you came in with Gus?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a couple months after Gus got here.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, we worked together at the Columbus Crew.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: How long were you at the crew?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh a little more than two, three years, like right around three years.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so Ben Cross was there when you were there as well.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think Ben left right right before I got there, but I know Ben Ben very well.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he went home back to Rochester, and he's doing well.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean Yeah, he's been doing some recruiting with with some OP players.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, really?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Good for Rochester.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, um yeah, he's a very good coach and very good person, and we're glad that some of our players get to experience him as a coach in in college.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: What was your uh role crew?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: So a couple of different roles.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: My role actually changed every year.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: I started off as the U14 Academy coach, then I moved up to the U-15 Academy coach, and then my third year there was transitioned to a head coach for video and analysis.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Now, is was that dictated by your experience with the uh the French course?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean I was on the French course when I started the my second year there.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: So um it's just a chance change of roles and and utilizing my my skill set as somebody that enjoys data and and analysis and and video to help improve player development.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: How vital.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, think about our day.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't our highlight tape was a VHS tape.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: And the and the and the letters we sent to colleges were written and I mean that's just the way that the world has evolved.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: And like we were talking about the other day, our our recruiting process involved sending letters to colleges and hoping they wrote you back, and you'd go and you open the mailbox and yeah, and see if anybody has correspondence.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Or they'd send letters to the school and they'd call you down to the office to come down and get your mail.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Gosh, it's wild.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: And think about like 30 years ago, MLS starts, 94 World Cup was my f really my first experience in watching soccer on TV.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Now we can watch every single college game, isn't it?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you can watch games from countries that I didn't even know existed back then.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: All right, like that's how much access we have to to the game now, and how much the game has grown within our society and our culture.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they wouldn't be on if nobody wanted to watch it.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: So they do provide uh pride for some interesting, interesting games to watch these days.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just our education.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Our education has come up so much.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh not only because of our how the coaching education has changed, but we can just watch more soccer.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the game is there.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's everywhere.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean it gives lots of people's opinions on what is right and what is wrong, or what's best and what's what's not so good.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, I think that discussion helps move the game forward.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: It it builds some more expectations among what's what's right for player development.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I mean, I think all of these things that with more access gives gives more opportunities for us as as soccer professionals to become better at developing players.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: How okay are they still offering the formations course?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's only like 60 uh 60 people in the country that have it, right?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think there's there's probably they just finished the sixth cohort.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it was in I was in the fifth.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: They just finished the sixth uh like in August.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: So there's probably 120, 130 player people with that have experienced the EFCL.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: And can you go into it a little bit?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like what what made it so elite uh if that's a word to use.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: I I think it's a it's a coaching course that exposes you to things that you as a coach aren't comfortable with.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the instructors have an extremely high wealth of knowledge.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um and they're very good at understanding the coaches that are in the course and finding ways to impact them individually and give feedback, and it opens your eyes to things that maybe you didn't even know were possible or capable or even out there in terms of player development.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: And like through the over the 18 months, you get different assignments, you have to go visit different locations for in-person that you get challenged for a week um on things that help you become better.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: And you may not know that it's help in that moment, um, but eventually you reflect and and understand what is important and what they're trying to teach you, and and from an individual level, it makes you look inward and reflect on things that you've learned, experiences that you've had, and say, well, maybe this isn't the only way of doing it, or isn't the best way of doing it, or there are other ideas out there that are more prominent or have more data behind them that impact player development a little bit better.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this the assignments that you're given make you reflect and think, and ultimately like challenges you to be the best version of yourself.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, this was this was a good start, but you can go deeper and deeper and deeper into creating this idea or developing this idea or finding ways to impact the game more.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the feedback that you get is something that you've I mean, I've never gotten before.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this wasn't good enough.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: This idea of coaching needs to be more directive in this moment.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: You need to ask better questions here.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like your stoppage in your session lasted three minutes and 15 seconds.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a way that you could have done it in a minute and a half?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: And like the the coaches that you're with challenge you, like you get you go and run a session, and then the coaches that you're in the cohort with are given you have to you have to grade that session and provide feedback on the session so that not only that the coach that you're giving feedback to can understand ways to get better, but when you're reflecting on that yourself, you're finding ways that oh, this is I'm I'm impacting him, but I can also use this to help impact me as a coach and and help me there.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just a constant, a constant barrage of feedback.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that feedback challenges you in ways that like for me, no other courses have done so in the past.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: So when in is it more it's obviously more about developing the coach, but it is the curriculum more about developing the team?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because when I hear formations, I think tactics.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's more for the French, that's more about the age of the player, like the formation age of the player between like 14 and 16, and there's pre-formation, which is before, which is basically like 11 to 13.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's about more about age of the player rather than is tactics or formate like system of play.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Got it.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Are you on the field right now with OP?
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: What teams do you are you a head coach of a team or are you kind of more of a advisory role?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I I I serve as the director of player developments, I kind of oversee um the players, the the the players in the club from a more global level, like the coaching, the development, the the things that are actually going into the player development, the environment that we're trying to create.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I also coach the 17 and 19 boys in the club.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: So start off as like the boys director and then kind of transition into more working with boys and girls teams across the board.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Is it really like IDP when you're when you look at like the player development, is it IDP focused or I mean I IDPs are part of our player development, a big part of our player development.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um we for me, it's about creating the the IDP framework, which is what goes into the IDP, how do we want to conduct our IDPs?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like we create the feedback form that the players go in and grade themselves on, and then our coaches go in and grade the players on those same things.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: So now we can understand what the player's perception of their ability is, and now the coaches can go provide feedback.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you think you're above average here.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think you're middle of the team here.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now we can discuss what will help you get from yellow in our grading scale to green.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, a part of my role is helping uh develop and create our IDP process, but that's just one role.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're trying to create and evolve as a as a staff and evolve as a as a club where we're kind of challenging the status quo in terms of development and trying to do different things that may or may not work.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're gonna, but what I've liked is like we're able to come up with an idea that addresses a specific problem, try it, evaluate it, reflect on it.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: And if it works, how can we make it better?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: If it doesn't work, let's try something new.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: They were talking about like the competitive cauldron, kind of like ants endurance, and that that's part of the process of you know what, 13s and 14s, and uh that's right up my alley because I was obsessed with everything Ants Endurance coming up when uh in the early 2000s, just focusing on what in the what how he built his environment, and it really proved to me that technique can be measured if he's doing figure eights and you have him one minute to see how many figure eights you can you can do.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there's a number on that, and you can measure technique because a lot of people can't don't think that technique can be measured, and they think it's all subjective.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's like sometimes technique can be objective, yeah.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's there's lots of different ways to measure measure some like there's lots of different video analysis software now that's AI driven that can give you how many passes completed you have in a match, and I mean that's that's one way of of evaluating players and finding the right metrics that are involved in that.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: But for us, like part of our competitive environment and tournament Tuesday that we we call it is like we go to playoffs and we compete against the top teams in in the country, and obviously from there you give it a different evaluation than if you don't like if you compete against weaker teams.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: So we go against the best teams, we want to be able to play against them more frequently, be able to compete at the highest level.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are our players need to do to get better in those environments so that when we do go to playoffs or we do play against better competition, they're able to find more success.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: So we come back from that.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Gus and I sit down, we have a like what do we need to improve on?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, our our technical speed, our ability to do things under pressure of an opponent is is challenged more when the opponent gives us less time and space.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to be able to do things faster and evaluate um our ability players' ability to execute under high levels of stress and high levels of competition from opponents.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: So technically, we need to get faster at executing simpler actions.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: We need to get get better at at different movement functional movement, like our ability to turn and get the full speed faster, and being willing to um use our arms in duels and being those at the highest level, we get exposed in situations where our center backs have to defend 1v1 in larger areas of the field.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got to find ways to help them improve the The movement aspect of that so that they can do it more frequently.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and then we get to playoffs, and our players need to understand what high-level competition looks like, like the desire to win, the ability to um be a really good teammate in those moments where the stress is high, the competition is fierce.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, can we find ways to recreate that environment in training so that when they do experience it, it's it's no longer the first time they've seen somebody ready to do anything it takes to win?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we try to recreate those situations as as much as we can.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: How do you guys have a game model for the club, like a club-wide game model, or is it more just individually focused?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think I mean, like I said, Gus, our sporting director, and I talk about this a lot.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: And we're in the business of youth soccer.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: And for us, a youth soccer game model needs to be about developing the player within the team environment.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: And if we're gonna develop the player, we need to have a game model that that allows our players to have more actions in a game.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like if we're gonna have more attacking actions, we want our players to experience these actions more frequently, then we need to have a game model that is based on possession soccer.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like if we play from our goalkeeper to our center forward every time, then there's only two people that are experiencing an action, right?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: So if we want all of our players to have more opportunities to experience actions in game, our attacking game model needs to involve higher levels of possession.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of the funk for the the thoughts around our attacking game model.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: How do we how do we manipulate the ball to create more chances of score?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: And same thing with defending.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if we want our kids to experience more defending actions to become better players, then we need to have a more aggressive style of defending.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't, it's rare that we will ever say, like, let's go defend in a low block.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's for us, is not a very proactive way of seeing the game.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: So even like we want to challenge our players with more attacking actions and more defending actions against better opponents, because that's what's going to then refine our understanding of what players can and can't do.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: So even if we have a team that's better than us, I think our mentality is that we're still going to execute our style of play in a way that allows our players to continue to get better.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: What do you notice, like the the difference between boys and girls when you're trying to approach like as a whole of what you're trying to get across to the girls and then what you're trying to get across to the boys?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've always thought that girls are more inclined to try to play how you want them to play, whereas boys kind of have a mind of their own at times.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think I mean I think that's that that that's one generalization for me.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like there are very different boys within our U13 and U14s.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like right, some are some are really willing to try new things, some are hesitant, some are more aggressive, some are more timid, some are more skillful, some are more physical.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like they have different ways to solve what we're asking them to do.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and I think the girls are similar.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's lots of different personalities, there's lots of different ways that players in our 13s and 14s, boys and girls, try to solve problems.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think for for us, the the game is the same.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like boys and girls, players are trying to execute the same actions under pressure of time and space.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, what we're trying to teach our 13 and 14 girls is what we want our U13 and 14 boys to experience.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, style of play from our boys and girls side should be fairly similar.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Coaches should be teaching the same things, trying the same things, executing the principles in a similar way, um, at least at those age groups.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: And for us, like, I don't think there's any like the girls do this and the boys do this.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's more like, how do we affect each individual player?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because ultimately there's very different personalities in both boys and girls' groups that we have to reach differently.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um but if for me, like at least in our groups, like they want to be competitive, they're they're willing to learn, they're hopefully motivated to try new things.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, one thing we try to try to teach them is that like you're not gonna get better unless you're willing to make mistakes.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And there's mistakes that we can live with, like we don't want your mistakes to be on attitude or effort or concentration.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like those are default levels that we need you to maintain.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're trying to pick out the best option and you make the best decision, but your execution is poor, like we can go back and fix that.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: But if you don't try it, then we don't know the decision that you're trying to make.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, you see it, you're willing to try it.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's a great try.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's fix your let's improve your technique so that you can do it more frequently.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: So we want our players to be growth, growth mind, like have a good mindset where, yeah, I made a mistake, but that mistake is ultimately going to help me get better.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: And like we give the ball away a lot at U13 and 14 because we're trying to do the right things, at least in terms of build out and manipulating the opponent.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: And we want those players to be comfortable making mistakes at 13 and 14, so that they're less frequent to make them at 15 and 16, and even less frequent at 17 and 19.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Where were you where were you before the crew?
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I've been a lot of places.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: I coached coached in college for a little bit, Stetson University, then I coached a little bit in the PDL, then went and coached eight nine-year-olds in Virginia at Virginia Legacy for a couple years, then moved to Richmond and coached with Richmond United ECNL, and then moved to Wilmington, hammerheads for a couple years, yeah, and ECNL, boys and girls.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: And what what's that environment like?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't it kind of I had a parent what environment?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think I had a parent.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: I I did some like consulting for parents, and uh the Carolinas came up and I think they were with Wilmington, but there's like kind of isolated, it's more isolated than you than people would think.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: You can't get anybody from the east side of Wilmington because that's the oceans.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly what they said.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, there's but I mean I think that's the case everywhere.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: Everywhere.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're you're you have limitations in terms of the play, like we're not recruiting player, like the best players are coming to the club.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like we are fortunate enough that these players want to play for us.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: So the they come in, like we're trying to create, we're just trying to create a better environment than we were yesterday and become more standardized and professional and and have different ways of improving the environment.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I mean, every environment is built on something that we're trying to make better.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: How much of your role here is coaching education or helping mentor or or just that just help in younger coaches' development?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I think it's always part of the the job of of player development, is helping how do we impact players that we don't necessarily coach every day?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um like we talk about scaling, like when we're in an MLS academy, like you're coaching one team, or there's four teams that that are there doing the same thing.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're in a club that has 80 teams.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: How do you scale it from me to 30, 40 other coaches to be on the same page?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's a lot about developing processes that help uh improve player development, whether it's um from a coaching standpoint, creating a weekly planner that our coaches fill out um just to give them and us a better understanding of what their plans are for the week in terms of their training sessions, um taking that weekly planner and creating a session planner so that there's um common language and understanding of actually what they're trying to take and bring out in their session, and then from their coaching points to the teams that they want to line up so that the games have context or the activities have have specific rules that they're looking to bring out that we can go in and influence.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I see you're doing this.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe try to bring in this idea in your training session to bring it out further.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: We have technical meetings to help influence player player development where the coaches come on Wednesdays, we have a topic.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Gus and I will lead a discussion on like last week, we did switching the point of attack.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what does it mean?
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: How do we bring it out?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: What are some rules that we can impact?
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do we need in a session to bring out switching the point of attack more often?
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: Give our coaches opportunities to develop their own activities, provide feedback.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like that's that's from the coaching education side.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and then we're out on the field, and like I said, Gus and I are on the field a lot and can observe and hey, I know what you're trying to do with this rule, but it's also there's a there's a counterintuitive part that isn't relevant.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Allow the players to do this, and if they do this, then the game can open.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so just providing individual like feedback to coaches and what we see is is really important.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but like we have an idea of like we have core principles, principles that we want to bring out, and coaches kind of have the ideas that we want all of our teams to have the understanding of what we're trying to do, but obviously players are very different and coaches are very different.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: So you have the flexibility to execute this principle in a way that best suits your team, right?
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like whether we want to play into gaps in between lines in our buildup.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you have three three really good center backs, well, maybe this team wants to build with three center backs and this team wants to build in a back four.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like they have the flexibility to do that based on the players that they have available to them, and then provide being able to provide individual context or ideas or cues that they can take and help implement implement with their team.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like we want the coaches to have the freedom to do what they think is best for the players that they're in charge of.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: How big is having a staff with common language, common terminology?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's always a that's always a challenge.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, especially with the 80, what are you guys having?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like 80 coaches?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's also I mean there's also like a lot lots of opinions.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is that the front foot or the back foot?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's a conversation that we we have.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: And like, like there's like like do we do we really want to call it rest defending?
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do we want to tell the 13-year-old, this is your your rest defending right now, or can we find better language to help influence the the actions that we want to see more frequently?
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, language is really important.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that like what we're trying to create is when a player moves from U11 to U12, they have the same ideas and the same understanding of what those ideas mean, where one coach talks about, I mean, it's as simple as you receive the back foot, and now this other coach is saying the front foot.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's obviously some learning that needs to happen between for that player to understand what that coach is now referring to.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: So having a common understanding or a common language is is really important to developing the under the similar understanding on the field.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: And the easier it is to create clarity for players helps improve the learning environment.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: When you were taking the formations course, was the terminology the same as like previous US soccer courses?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know I listened to Fred and I'm like, what did you just say?
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: No, and I think that's I mean, it's also coming from French into English, and exactly sometimes things are lost in translation, but like I think you start to understand what things mean.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like they would present principles, and they're the words would say one thing, and then the video that they showed to define the principle would provide more clarity for us as coaches as to what they're actually looking for.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's that's an example of of improving the learning environment.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: If they were just to give us the principles and hey, you go figure it out, or even just here's what it means, but if you can provide video to it, that's another opportunity to learn in a different way.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, the language is is important.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: And if we're all going to have a common understanding of what it means, allows us to talk about things in a little bit deeper, deeper way.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: When you came here, well, I'm sure that you were aware of what it was going on here while you were at crew, but was this what's the word?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: Was this uh not tempting, but was this I guess attractive to be like, hey, I see what they're doing, I see what they're trying to build, I see like this.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: This is like uh, you know, I think every club should have a house now.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: But was this alluring attractive for you to like stay in Columbus?
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think I think I'm at a point in my career where the people that I work with, like that I get to like learn from that are above me, like the people that I get to work with is more important than like the badge that I'm wearing.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and like that's part of the environment that I want to be in, an environment where the people that I'm working with are like supportive and and have the same goals and and are driven the same way and want the same thing.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, the the thing that really encouraged me that this was the environment I want to be in were the people that were here.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: And Gus and Chris obviously have a vision that is based around player development, and like that's that's what I want to be in.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think about like like-mindedness?
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, would you say that you're like-minded, or do you guys challenge each other?
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Or some of my best discussions involve disagreements between Gus, Gus, and I, and I think that's why it's but I mean that's what's so valuable about having those discussions are here's what I believe, here's what he believes, like let's let's figure out why you think this, why I think this, and get to a but like I can go into an argument with one understanding and be proven wrong and be like, yep, all right, let's do this, that makes more sense.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I think there's also like you need to have freedom to discuss your opinions.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and sometimes they're they're like sometimes I believe one thing that now I know something else, and now I can learn and change and update my opinion.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like that happens with science all the time, right?
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like things change.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh now, now I see data that really supports this idea, right?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Now it makes sense, let's do it.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: And science is out to try to not only prove but also disprove what your beliefs are.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think we need that friction in a in an environment or in a club that challenge each other.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, we've done this for 20 years.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: This is how we've always done it.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, why are we still doing it?
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, does does it make sense to continue to do it in this way?
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: And if it does, then we keep doing it.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: If it doesn't, or we can find a better way to to do it or better way to impact player development, let's try it.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the environment that we're building here is like we're constantly challenging the status quo.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why are we doing it like this?
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: Why why don't we build up this way?
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: Or why don't we play why don't we play direct more?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like we like the ball on the ground, but when is the right time to play in behind the opponent?
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like our players aren't even looking for that.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: How do we get them to look for it more frequently?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: So just different ways to to impact player development.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like we look at like we look at what do we want our players to get better at?
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: And for us, like every action that a player performs starts with gathering information.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: And we learn that players that scan more frequently are able to play forward more frequently.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: We learn that 78% of the information that players gather in a game is with their eyes.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: So how do we get them?
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like we want them to become better scanners.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: Better scanners equals better decision makers, right?
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: If they're gathering, if they if they go into, if they're trying to cross the street, like how do what's the first thing you need to do before you cross the street?
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: We need to look both ways.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you're going to receive a ball in midfield, what do you need to do before you receive the ball?
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I need to look both ways.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: So then how do we get players to be more intentional or at least understand the value of scanning?
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's something that's super important, but it's not really coached or really focused on.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, well, why did you just give the ball away?
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what did you see?
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, those are the questions that we want our coaches to be asking.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do we influence scanning in a daily environment without making it like the main focus?
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we've we've taken an idea from karate where you have different levels of belts.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: We have we've given our players a black sweatband, wristband, and it has a white logo on it.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: And for our 11s through 14s, we we call it the scan band.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: Here's your scan band, this is from the club.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: This is why we're we want you to become better scanners.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just a reminder when you start the session, put on your scan band.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: In the session, a coach can reference it just by pointing at it that you need to scan better, but then we give them the context of it.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: Here's why, like when we give them the crossing the street example, like so it's and when they first get the scan band, it's white.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: We want everybody to become an expert at scanning.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: So if you become proficient at scanning, you get a gold one.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: So those all or 11 through 14, like they wear it every day in training, like it's just part of the environment that we're trying to create.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: We give the parents the information as to why we're doing it.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: Here's how you can help support it.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, watch how many times your player scans before they receive the ball.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: At a really high level, the best scanners in the world are scanning six to eight times before they receive the ball.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the 10 seconds we're hoping that your child scans two to three times before they receive the ball.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right now they're probably scanning zero to one.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: So let's let's continue to improve it.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: Here's a way that we we think can at least make it intentional.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have to put it on every day, you have to wear it.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: We want you to improve at it.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: So here's a here's a a level up if you get proficient at it.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: If you scan two to three times before you receive the ball, here's a gold one.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's just something that the players see every day.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it's something that they understand is important to us as coaches and staff and important to them.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then just a constant reminder that becoming a better scanner allows you to just see more things that give you opportunities to choose the best decision more frequently.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have more uh like topics than just scanning with those bands?
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: So right now it's just our only focus is scanning and adding more topics to that, I think, would dilute the value of scanning.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've seen in the past, like they have one they wear around their weak foot.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: They have a weak foot band where it's a white band when they become proficient with their weak foot that they get a gold one.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: So for us right now, the most important one for us is getting our U11 through U14 players um more intentional about scanning and becoming better scanners.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that helps us in the way that we want to play and we want to develop players really focus on something that we as coaches or directors really value.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: Who came up with that?
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I've used it in the past.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like all great ideas, they're stolen from somewhere or taken and adapted.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like I went on a trip to Celtic in Scotland like 15 years ago, and as coaches, we were like, What is that?
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like they put a GoPro on a kid's head to see where he was scanning, like just different ideas that they were trying to help with their players.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I took it, I thought that was a really good idea.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: It helped at least me understand the value of scanning and took it, implemented it with teams I was working with at the time, kind of taking it with me where where I go.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: And like for me, it just provides an easy way for players to see the value without having to verbally coach it every day.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: I love it because it's so hard when you're coaching team.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: So the last 11 years, I've had my own technical training company.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's very easy in a s group of four to work on scanning.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: When you have eighteen to twenty-four kids, it's hard.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: But when you have the when you introduce the band, it's it's much easier to address it.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said about just pointing to the band.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's so much easier just to address and they immediately know the coaching point.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we're and like we've we've sent out videos.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Here's a way to now that you've under your kids have gotten a scan band, here's here's a way to bring it up in training that focuses on the idea of scanning, whether it's like first thing we want our players to scan for is do they have time and space?
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you have time and space, do you need to play one touch?
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like those are ways that we can tell that players haven't scanned.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like if they play one touch and they should turn, well, we know where the deficiency is.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: So for us, it's about finding ways to help our coaches, the players that we don't get to see every day, have the same talking points across 30 teams.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it it's and who knows, in two years or in a year, we'll look at it and be like, well, this idea didn't work.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: But for us right now, it it makes sense.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: It it's it's a daily commitment to getting better at scanning that we hope sees value for our for our players in the way that they're interacting with their environment in training and games.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's immediately related to decision making.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because how many times did a kid make the wrong decision because he didn't know that there was a second option right over there because he didn't look.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, that happens all the time.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: Or they turn this way instead of turning that way because they didn't know which side the defender was on.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's why me personally, I'll have like maybe a rondo or something like that.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: I can't stand touch restrictions because it's unrealistic.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're putting a one or two touch restriction on an exercise and they have time and space to drive, why would I take that away from a kid?
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: Especially the younger ones, when I feel like when you're talking about development, you want your younger kids to take more risks and take uh develop a confidence to take somebody on one-on-one that you can't, if you don't have that at U14, U15, it's gonna be really hard for you to get that.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I think we have we have we have players that sometimes are overconfident with the ball, and every time they get it, they go and take players on.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like they are comfortable with the ball, but they don't understand the context of the environment.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like they go and train and they do lots of touches and are really good at dribbling against cones or sticks.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: But then the understanding of how to implement that dribbling skill in the context of a game where defenders trying to steal the ball from them, like, oh, you did the move too late, where against a stick it doesn't matter, but against an opponent, like now you're chasing the ball down because the the timing of your move or your timing of your skill is too slow.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: So like we have to be willing to like take those take those players that are confident with the ball and provide them with context to the environment.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I mean I think there's lots of different ways to to go about those those decisions.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: And like I find that especially like when you're working with young players and you're teaching one-on-one, everybody thinks that it's all about penetration.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, just manipulate the defender, move them so to create a pass.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: But you can't do that in an individual session one-on-one.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what cues are the players that are dribbling the soccer ball going to learn from dribbling against a cone?
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: As a player that's dribbling 1v1, they have to know when the opponent is off balance.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: And like doing a scissor move isn't just to do the scissor move, it's to deceive your opponent.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I want him to think I'm going there so that I can then open up the space over there.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, understanding the why of the move is really important.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: Where they also have to understand, well, I did the move, he's he or she's not off balance, so I can't go there yet.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: I have to do another move, or they're understanding, like they can do the skill move, but they don't know the cues to do the skill move effectively in a game.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like they can do it against cones, or they can do it in open space, or but when I have to get an opponent off balance, I have to be willing to I have to show that my intention is to go that way with the move so that it then frees me up to go there.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's that's part of the context that is really important when we're training individual skills.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: One of my biggest annoyances uh in my technical training space was like, can you work on moves today?
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no, because I don't think that moves are necessarily technique.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think first touch is technique.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think with the weight and the timing of your past, that's technique.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: Being able to bring a ball, a 50-yard ball down on a dime, that's the technique that I'd want to teach.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: Your son or daughter is about to be in a one-on-one session with me.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to have an active defender.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we're not going to work on things that need to be against an active defender.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to work on some other things.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I think technique is a topic that can be discussed for a really long time.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: Ultimately, we aren't graded on technique.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like gymnasts are graded on how well they do a skill move.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if they're going to do a skill on the floor exercise, they're graded on how well their technique is in that activity.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: If we aren't graded on how well we kick the ball into the goal, right.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like if the ball goes into the goal and I use my toe, it's still as effective as if I use my lasers at the inside of my foot.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's all worth one.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: But the idea of technique for for me and I think for us is like technique is the execution of a decision.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so if you're like if I'm gonna shoot there, but the goalkeeper is there, then that's a bad decision.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh man, you struck it really well.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, but you didn't hit you hit it right at the keeper.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't you didn't execute like how how the ball goes from A to B is irrelevant if it's done at the right speed, right, at the right time, in the right position on the field.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: But if it's there there are obviously more effective ways to do a pass more efficiently, but if one player does it like this and one player does it like this, it's ultimately irrelevant as to which one is better if they both achieve the objective in the same way.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's like imagine you're a 10 and you're playing a through ball to a winger, and then some players can bend that ball with the inside of their left, some need to just rely on the outside of their right.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's and it if they both complete it.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: Some players have the ability, so having more having more tools and the tools gives you different ways to solve the problem, right?
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: Execute the decision.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the key.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the key.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: We want to build build more tools, but then also give them the tools to make the best decision.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, over my you know, 11 years doing that, I think that one of the biggest when you're when we're talking about individual player development, I think one of the easiest ways to get better is just close the skill gap between your weak foot and your strong foot because it gives you more outs, it gives you more opportunities to solve the problem, especially if you're not a good scanner.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_01: And and I find that like the better you are on with two feet, the more versatile of a player you're gonna be, meaning you can play in multiple positions.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: How many times have we had a player that can only play the 10?
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, then the starting 10 can play multiple positions, so that 10 never gets to play in the 10 because she's versatile and they kick her out wide for the backup 10 who can only play the 10.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I also think that the more versatile player that you are, when you get into college, you're gonna be on the field sooner.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you could play, obviously with two feet, but if you can also play multiple positions, you're gonna be on the field.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_01: At least that's what I've seen.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: I have a girl at Wisconsin, she's a freshman, playing 90 minutes a game.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: She started out as a center back, she got a youth national team call up, she was a left back, and right now she's playing the sixth at a Big Ten school and playing 90 minutes.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I also I mean I think there's there's the opposite side of that, is like there are obvious players that have superpowers.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like this player is has a this player is dominant in the air for a lot of youth players.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's a superpower.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like there are players that are able to get out of tight spaces using the dribble.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like for me, that's a superpower.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can twist and turn and take players on.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like being being versatile, like you you're really like sometimes you're a master of of none, right?
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, exactly.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: But then there's also like so I for me, like that's a question that's always discussed.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do we want more versatile soccer players, or do we want like you're really good at this specific?
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: Focus on this, be Abby Womback in the air.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's I mean, that's a superpower.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's a superpower.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that's develop developable?
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: Developer?
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want plural.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: Is that can you develop a superpower?
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: Some superpowers are easier to develop than others.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like heading is an easier superpower to develop than 1v1 skills, right?
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, but those need to come out in in the game environment to become a superpower.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, there are different like I would say center midfielders are probably more versatile, need to be more versatile than center backs.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like center backs need to have some superpowers that make them really good at defending 1v1s or need to be really good at judging the ball out of the air.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_00: Heading heading the ball, yeah, judging the ball.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, where maybe maybe some position groups are more more versatile, but there are certain skill sets that make that separate you from everybody else in certain positions.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: I always thought that if I could, if there was one position that I'd want every single player to be able to play, it was the 10.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_01: Even my goalkeeper.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: If my goalkeeper can play the 10, we're not gonna lose the ball much.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_01: Now, every coach is a little bit different.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: Some would say, I want all sixes, I want all eights, I want, you know, all nines.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think you'd be pretty boring, right?
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like if we had a similar type of players, then we'd be we'd be good at one thing.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: We'd vote Spain in 2010.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that'd be I think that's a generalization.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: But yes, I mean, like, yeah, they're they're they're very good at I think they were very good at lots of things.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you got Pugliol, and you got Piquet, and you got Sergio Ramos, those are very assassins.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: But those, yeah, those guys give the other guys opportunities for success success in different ways.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: So like if we continue to develop one type of player, I think we would be very we would be very boring, we'd be very bland, we'd be very one one-dimensional.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and you're teaching them not to be able to adapt to different styles, different coaches, different problems that are that are presented.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's thousands of decisions that they have to make in a game.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like what you do in one decision, like maybe solved differently by somebody that has a different skill set.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, yeah, we're developing lots of players to understand game situations and ways to solve it based on what they see and based on what their ability is.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: So there's lots of different ways to solve problems.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like Laminum All is a different way to solve solve the game than most players in the world.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: Early in Holland.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: Completely different players.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna solve different situations differently, right?
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's based on a lot of like their physical abilities are very different.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: One allows them to solve it one way, one allows them to solve it a different way.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, as coaches, we have to understand all those different dimensions of players that ultimately we need to give them the freedom to solve it with the tools that they have and and the abilities that they have to be the most effective in that outcome.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: How do you get a club-wide identity or game model?
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's clubs out there that have club-wide, strict game models, but like every team is a little bit different, and you don't have the same six on the U19s as you do on the U17s.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, how can you how can you make a game model or a style of play club wide when all the players are different age to age?
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_01: And somebody said this to me, and I thought about this.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_01: We don't get okay, outside of MOS Academies in this country, we don't get to just go and choose which players come to my club, they have to choose us.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_01: So how can you as a club say this is the formation we're gonna play in every age group?
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: This is because that's what they tried to do in like 2010 when everybody wanted to adopt the Barcelona model.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_00: Another generalization of that that's that that is the challenges of scaling what you're trying to do.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like we want to play a possession-based attacking style of soccer that allows players to break the line, create a time edge, and ultimately attack the opponent's back line consistently.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: We also want our teams to be willing to press and aggressive and and go and be progressive in the way that we try to get the ball back.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_00: But we also give the coaches the freedom to execute those ideas in a way that helps their players and helps the the team that they're coaching solve the game.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's principles over tactics.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very very much so.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I think there's there's different ways to execute the same principles.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like true you can have Barcelona the way they attack the goal is different than the way Byron Munich attacks the goal.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like those coaches have different ideas about what's what's the best way to do it, but they also have the players that allow them to execute their vision as the coach.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think our coaches have to be adaptable.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we can't always play the same formation because like even if you play a 4-3-3, there's different ways to play the four four through three.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you have different roles for different like I have a right winger that isn't explosive but is very crafty on the ball, likes to get into central positions.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this player is gonna be, we're gonna rotate this player inside, whereas a when we make a sub, this player now needs to stay more wide.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: We need to have pair that player with somebody that's more in the attacking midfield position that's more willing to play in those central areas.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_00: So we understand what our players are like what role is our best our players best suited to play based on their ability, based on their their physical attributes.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: They can solve the game differently.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_00: So there's multiple ways to play a four through three.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_00: We would like to see these principles executed consistently.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: How you do it as a coach is up to you based on the players that you have here in your group, in a formation that allows you to execute them the best.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_01: You said earlier that like we need to create an environment where it's okay for kids to make a mistake.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: We also need to create environments within clubs where it's okay that the coaches make a mistake.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a tactical decision or some a subbing decision or something.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like we we I mean, that's what happens when you play against really good opponents.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like you you try to make a change, and you're like, I think this is gonna work, and then it totally backfired.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we're gonna go three in the back, we're gonna put them under pressure, and now you you've now you've exposed yourself in wide areas, and you're like, Oh man, I didn't see that coming.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's you you made a decision for this.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what are the unintended consequences that you weren't aware of?
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, we want our coaches to if you see something that you think can help our players, be willing to try it.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_00: If it doesn't work, like let's reflect on it, let's get better, let's find, let's let's fine-tune it, let's find ways that when it happens again, we know what the solution is gonna be from a coaching standpoint.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: How do you how do you think that young coaches should or how do you know that a young coach has the capacity of like this guy, this 24-year-old is gonna go places?
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do you see that young coaches tend to be like they got something?
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I think a lot a lot of coaching is being able to interact with the players that and influence and motivate and and communicate with the players that you have in your team.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like there are we see lots of coaches that are are really good at at influencing 17 and 19-year-olds, but if we were to put them with 11 and 12s, that may not be the right fit.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're a great coach, but their way of explaining things suits 17s and 19s, or their personality better motivates 17 and 9-year-olds.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_00: Where if we put them with 11 and 12-year-olds, like their impact would not be as important as with the older players.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I think for younger players that are younger coaches that are experienced in the game, like being able to take feedback and apply feedback is really important.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of environments for young coaches are self-discovery or like you go figure it out.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas like you're on an island by yourself.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, I think we've all been there.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're you're doing what you think is right, not what the club, like, there's no structure.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're on an individual, everybody's on their own island trying to solve the problem.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're like that, it's like, well, I'm not a good coach, like like you do a lot of reflection that's about like I don't know, you as a coach rather than how do I influence the players better, or what do I need to do to make my training session more effective?
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like being able to get feedback, apply feedback is really important for young coaches.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like being being able to say that you're not a good coach, like I know we joke about it all the time.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm I'm I'm a bad coach.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like who you compare, like you're a 13-year-old soccer player in the grand scheme of things, you're a bad soccer player when we compare you to the player we want you to be in six years.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, like I'm I'm a bad soccer coach if I can if I'm willing to compare myself to like Pep.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like so being being being able to understand where in the grand scheme of things you're not very good, and finding ways to get better and get feedback and be open to new ideas and willing to challenge the status quo, like those those are all things that a young coach should be looking for in their daily coaching environment.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_00: Did you ever like hate getting feedback?
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I think but I mean feedback feedback is can be uncomfortable.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you're trying to protect what you think you've built, or you're trying to protect your ego, or you're trying to make sure everybody knows how good you are, or whether you're you're not confident in your ability as a coach, like sometimes you you reflect differently on feedback than than than you would in a different environment.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think there's obviously times where you're challenged with feedback that maybe you don't agree with or don't understand.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that was part of my whole growth on the the French course, the EFCL, was how do I respond to feedback when that you've never gotten before?
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_00: That I've never gotten that I may not understand in the moment, that I thought I did this well, they think I did it terrible.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm obviously I understand it, but I have no idea what I'm doing.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's lots of different ways to to go about feedback that like challenges you and especially if you aren't confident in what you're doing.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I'm confident in what I'm doing, like taking feedback from me is a lot easier than oh, I I can see where you're coming from.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas if I'm not confident or I'm trying to protect what I have, I'm gonna take feedback.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: Feedback very differently than if I'm in a different state of mind.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times they're asking you those questions to make sure that you believe in what you're doing.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it's it's it's a very important process that like I think those are the the best instructors, which I think we get in the French course.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like give you feedback that you need to hear rather than give you feedback that you want to hear.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_00: And while you may not understand the feedback or or value the feedback in the moment, like you understand the feedback later.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, I understand why they did this now, I understand the importance of that feedback, and it wasn't what I wanted to hear, but at that moment, that's the feedback that I needed to get to to become better in this entire process.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_01: So when you were taking this course, you had already been a part of the MOS Academy, PDL, college coaches, yeah.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of club stops, and it's and it feels like it's still like whoa, there's a lot more I have to learn.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it challenges you in ways that I didn't even know existed.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_01: See, because I think I this is me personally, I think every coach goes through these stages, right?
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_01: When we started out, we're like, what am I doing?
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_01: I have no idea what I'm doing.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then something happens, like from like 24 to like 29.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, I am the best coach in the world, and everybody else is wrong.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then when we get to 30 and we've coached a lot of like players, we're like, there's a lot of good coaches out there, it kind of takes a village.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_01: When I went to the NWSL, when I went to the Flash, I would ask like Sam Mewis, I goes, How many coaches had a direct impact on your development?
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_01: She rattled off like nine coaches.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_01: So when coaches come up and they're like, I developed her, I developed her, I developed him, it's like, shut up.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't want to talk to you anymore.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's part part of being a coach that impacts players knows it's not about them.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like for for me, being a part of a player's journey that has reached those levels is is an opportunity that I'm thankful for.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I didn't there's there's no way a humble coach can take responsibility for one player's development.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yep, there's there are so many determining factors outside of a coach's control that like impact a player's development, their home life, their school life, all of like you don't control that environment, like exactly and saying, like, just be happy that you are part of that player's process and find ways to continue to influence that player in the time that you have them to help them on their journey.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_01: How do you think individual coaches should measure success?
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's a discussion we have all the time.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, even us as like what is it is it putting kids in the colleges?
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_00: What is it?
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_00: Trophies.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think there's lots of ways to really entertainment.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's a there's a lot of different ways to grade the environment that we are in.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're trying to create the environment that allows players to maximize their potential.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like, yeah, all of those things are important, like players being able to, for us, allowing players or developing players, the next stage of their soccer lives is in college.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do we help them achieve the dream that they want to play at?
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_00: And like, so for us, getting play helping players get into college or play at the college level is is one thing.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, obviously, like we want to maximize the speed at which they're developing.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's really hard to evaluate.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_00: And there are lots of, like I said, determining factors in that.
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like this player is going through a growth spurt right now, and their coordination is really awkward, but their ideas are really good.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_00: So when they get out of that growth phase, how much more effective are they going to be?
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_00: So there's lots of different things that change on a daily basis.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like a kid has a bad day at school and now they've got to come to soccer practice is very different than a kid that may have had a great day at school and now they're at soccer practice.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_00: So like there are so many different elements of player development that are outside of our control that when we they come into our environment, we try to maximize the impact that we as a a club have in their lives.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really it's really hard for us.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like how well are our teams playing?
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_00: How competitive are they on the on the national stage?
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_00: How the how are they doing within their their league play is all important for us in terms of tools for evaluation.
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um how much better are players getting from this part of the year to that part of the year?
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um all of those things are are important in determining if what we're doing is successful.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_01: We always talk about like or always hear about how like coaching is a lonely profession.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that when you have an environment like this where you have people around you that can well help you, challenge you, support you, it gets less lonely.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, being lonely is the worst part of coaching, at least it was for me.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like being on an island by myself where I have no leadership, no direction.
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like those are just the challenge, and I don't want other coaches that are in our club to have those same feelings.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, I if we give up, if you're trying to do the right things, like I will take full responsibility for the things like we we lose a game 1-0 because you were trying to build out of the back at the right time, and a 12-year-old misplayed a pass and we get scored on.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'll take full responsibility for that.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_00: And giving our coaches the the confidence to do what we're asking them to do because that we're willing to be responsible for the results and the outcomes, I think is is is helpful for their development.
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like winning and losing isn't the ultimate goal.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_00: We have a process that we're trying to complete, and a process that we're trying to go through that allows our players to experience a lot of different things.
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're willing to go along with the methodology that we believe in and the experience that we've had, and and help, if you're willing to be confident in that approach, we we will back you in everything we do.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like we will we will be up front and say, if we give up a goal because we're trying to build out, like that's on me.
• 1:13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like you guys can blame me for all of those because if we do it at 12 and we do it at 13, we understand mistakes are going to be made.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_00: But when they get to 15 and 16, they'll be way better off for those mistakes that they made, trying things at those younger age groups that I think is really important for directors and coaches and parents to understand.
• 1:13:24
  SPEAKER_01: When I was coming up, I was at a community club and I had mentors at that club that I learned unbelievable things from, and I learned what real player development looked like.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like he had come from Vardar and coached like Brian Masenoff and like some really top, top talent.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then I left, and then I actually went to Vardar, and I didn't have that mentor or a mentor.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_01: I also left the school that I was at.
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_01: I was coaching at Detroit Country Day, which some legends in the state of Michigan, and I left them at the same time, and then all of a sudden I didn't have mentors, I was just on an island, like you said, and that's when I was like most miserable in my coaching.
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Is that when I didn't have a mentor?
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_01: So who are your mentors?
• 1:14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, and I think, but I think that goes back to my point.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like who I work for and who I work with is way more important to me as who I am right now than the badge that's on my my chest, right?
• 1:14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like the shirt or or bullet work.
• 1:14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like the environment that we're creating is for me the the best we can do, like the best it can be.
• 1:14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know, like Gus is a mentor, like Kelvin Jones, who's at who is the Academy Director at Columbus Crew, is a mentor, but like they're also like my best friends.
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think we've been like I've been fortunate enough to be around people that my my age, like my friends, were also the ones that were challenging me the most.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_00: And whether it's through discussions or experiences, or like like I said, some of my best discussions and arguments or finding the truth are with the people that I trust the most.
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like we Gus and I will have arguments about do we build with two or do we build with three in this situation?
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_00: And he has his understanding of it, and I have my understanding of it, and we'll we'll hash it out on a tactics board, and those discussions can can last a really long time because we're going into the details and challenging the understanding that we currently have.
• 1:15:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the the people that I've been able to be around that have helped me are the ones that like my friends are a really good group of coaches that are my age that have the same goals and same values and want the same thing in terms of you United States soccer development.
• 1:15:56
  SPEAKER_01: You made a point to like say that you uh you also coach a U8 and U9.
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think everybody should coach coach U8.
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_01: That was gonna be my question.
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like what the importance of coaching all the age groups, because it's like self-awareness as well.
• 1:16:11
  SPEAKER_01: How do you know that you couldn't be a world-class U8 coach if you never choose to coach the U8s?
• 1:16:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think everybody should coach U8s because the language that you have to use as a U8 coach makes you explain the game very simply and very clear that it helps you when you go coach everybody else.
• 1:16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you say, and if you're a seven-year-old and you say one word that doesn't make sense, or you say one thing that isn't clear, they will be lost and you'll know it immediately.
• 1:16:52
  SPEAKER_00: So being able to understand how to effectively coach the age that you're working with is really important.
• 1:17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And if you go coach eight-year-olds and you try to treat them like 16-year-olds, you're going to be very ineffective as a coach.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_00: So being able to explain things in the simplest way at least helped me a lot in terms of understanding how to become clearer in the words that I want to use when impacting players.
• 1:17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's like going back to the formation scores.
• 1:17:23
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm taking too long on my stoppages, go go train eight-year-olds for a month, and your your stoppages are gonna become really quick.
• 1:17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's how do I how do I find the most impact with the least amount of confusion?
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Are you in charge of eight to eighteen, eight to nineteen?
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Or go into that.
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think so so the way the club is set up, Gus Terran is our sporting director.
• 1:17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:17:58
  SPEAKER_00: He he oversees the entire soccer side of our club.
• 1:18:04
  SPEAKER_00: He sets the the vision, the way we want to play, the style of play.
• 1:18:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think my role is to help bring that those ideas to life, to bring those ideas to the field, to bring those ideas to the coaches to help bring that style of play, that vision, that idea of player development out.
• 1:18:24
  SPEAKER_00: We have we have directors or leaders that are in charge of U8 through U10s.
• 1:18:32
  SPEAKER_00: We have another one that's in charge from U11 through U14.
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mostly work with the U15 through U19 teams.
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Now that those teams are currently in their high school season, it gives me the opportunity to work with our U13s and U14s every day.
• 1:18:48
  SPEAKER_00: So um from that standpoint, I think there's a lot of a lot of communication and understanding of what the vision and the principles and the ideas are so that we can be more effective in in getting that information to our coaches, which then helps our players understand that information uh more effectively.
• 1:19:11
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do you guys have anything under U8?
• 1:19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have like a youth academy or anything like that?
• 1:19:17
  SPEAKER_00: We have a juniors program.
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, but that's more of like a one-time a week, just yep, just come out and experience soccer for the first time.
• 1:19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Got it.
• 1:19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:19:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's crazy.
• 1:19:28
  SPEAKER_01: What made you focus more on the youth game than on staying in the anos environment or the college game?
• 1:19:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've I've it's it's funny because I've done I've like I see like I said earlier, like I've I've coached at those levels before.
• 1:19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for me, I think my personality is much better at impacting and motivating and um developing players within the 13 to 18 year age groups.
• 1:20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think some put people are really good at impacting adults, some people are really good at impacting uh younger players.
• 1:20:14
  SPEAKER_00: For me, for me, the idea of of winning is less important than the idea of progressing.
• 1:20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Where I see is the maybe the college or the pro game is more objectively focused on results.
• 1:20:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm much more inclined to be part of the developmental process.
• 1:20:41
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it's experimentation.
• 1:20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like I tried all those, yeah, and I have much more enjoyment coaching those types of players, the 13s through 18s.
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would much rather watch our U13 or U14 girls team on a Saturday morning than watch a professional game.
• 1:21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like I get more enjoyment out of watching those players that I have a relationship with than watching the professional games.
• 1:21:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just something that I enjoy.
• 1:21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like I enjoy watching our players and our teams play.
• 1:21:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the self-awareness thing, right?
• 1:21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, you've you've done all that, right?
• 1:21:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I was I was what I would call like a chaser when I was younger.
• 1:21:30
  SPEAKER_01: I like I was at a community club, then I was sick of losing players to the ECNL on the DA club, so I'm like, I I'm I'm just gonna go with them.
• 1:21:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I went to the DA and I coached in the ECNL, and I'm like, I want something more.
• 1:21:45
  SPEAKER_01: So then I coached college, and it's like, I want something more.
• 1:21:49
  SPEAKER_01: So then I took the job at the NWSL with uh Flash.
• 1:21:53
  SPEAKER_01: That wasn't it, and then I just realized like, what do I enjoy the most?
• 1:21:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like technical training development in the individual player and developing a relationship with the individuals to where it's like with the older players players, I just become a therapist anyway, you know, and like in like a in a small group setting because they're all bitching about something, and that's and then I that's where I was happiest.
• 1:22:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just the self-awareness of like you gotta it's basically you have to say yes to everything to realize what you're gonna be able to say no to.
• 1:22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:22:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think it's like that's the whole part of the learning process, at least for me as a coach, I think I was a similar way.
• 1:22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like I thought the grass was greener and that I and I want the next challenge.
• 1:22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I I think going through that, like we have young coaches here, and I I want them to not have to chase the feedback or not have to chase the next thing because what they're looking for as a coach is what we can provide them in this environment.
• 1:22:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, I mean, I think there's lots of learning that coaches need to do.
• 1:23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we like we were fortunate enough to have a coach that coached with us last year that went to an MLS academy this year.
• 1:23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I feel like we are a really good opportunity for him to continue to grow and learn, and we are a really good environment for him.
• 1:23:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then he was approached with an offer to go coach an MLS academy.
• 1:23:27
  SPEAKER_00: And like if you think that's best for you, then we support you 100%.
• 1:23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like we want you to have the best opportunity to do what you want to do.
• 1:23:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think we're we're really appreciative of the time that we had, and I thought we continued to grow and and help him on his journey as a coach, just like we're trying to help players on their journey to become better.
• 1:23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:23:51
  SPEAKER_01: What's next for what's next for the club in terms of like well, so you don't have the olders, right?
• 1:23:59
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have the they start in three weeks.
• 1:24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, it's our yeah, okay.
• 1:24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I just lose track of everything.
• 1:24:07
  SPEAKER_01: So you get them back in three weeks and you're just like counting down the days.
• 1:24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I get started again.
• 1:24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that there's really so the big knock obviously on high school is like, well, they develop bad habits and they get away with things that you wouldn't get away with in our environment.
• 1:24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Is there truth to that?
• 1:24:28
  SPEAKER_00: This is uh this can go a lot of different directions, this question.
• 1:24:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like uh, but I think it's it's like yes, there's probably things that they experience in in high school that are very different than what they experience in club in terms of quality of players, the environment that they're in, the training environment that the training to game schedule is diabolical.
• 1:24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I also do think like if you're a freshman or a sophomore, it's the only time that you'll be able to play against players that are older than you.
• 1:25:00
  SPEAKER_00: That I do think there's benefit to playing against players that are older than you, that there's the the the dynamics between playing against players that have been there for three years, or it's an environment that's going to very similarly replicate college.
• 1:25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're going into a new environment, you're trying to beat out a senior, like those are those are things that we don't get in our club environment.
• 1:25:23
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of like like you have to you have to play in front of your peer group on a Thursday against your rival, and then you have to go be accountable for that on Friday, Friday morning in English class.
• 1:25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like we don't nobody comes and watches your games on on Saturday and Sunday from from your school.
• 1:25:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I do think there's I do think there's some aspects to high school soccer that club cannot provide.
• 1:25:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:25:50
  SPEAKER_00: There are also I things that club soccer provides that high school cannot provide.
• 1:25:55
  SPEAKER_00: So for us right now in our environment, like we look at the positives of what high school can do for our players.
• 1:26:02
  SPEAKER_00: And when we get them back in November, like we try to get into what we think is best in our environment as quickly as we can.
• 1:26:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, going from high school to the club environment is challenging sometimes.
• 1:26:16
  SPEAKER_00: But for us, there are things that when our kids go to high school, we hope they are able to experience and use when they come back to our our club environment.
• 1:26:28
  SPEAKER_00: And for us, that's that's what's working, working for the players in our club.
• 1:26:34
  SPEAKER_01: In your individual team, let's say the nine teams, okay, how many high schools are represented on that roster, do you think?
• 1:26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Probably from the 16 players, we probably have 10, 8, 8 to 10 different high schools.
• 1:26:49
  SPEAKER_01: How do you how do you build an environment where like because Flash would have sometimes 20 high schools represented?
• 1:26:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then I like when I broke it down and really started talking to a lot of the players I work with, I was like, they're not friends outside of the club soccer environment because they don't go to high school together.
• 1:27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Do you see that?
• 1:27:12
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you develop how do you develop an environment where they are more like you know, a brotherhood or whatever?
• 1:27:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 1:27:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think I that's part of the role of the coach is to manage the environment that you're working with.
• 1:27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we understand that the players go and they go to different environments where now they're rivals or competitors, or and when we get back to our environment, like we're all striving for the same thing now.
• 1:27:40
  SPEAKER_00: We're better right working towards the one goal and swimming in the same direction than everybody pulling in different directions.
• 1:27:47
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I mean, there's a good bit of banter from our groups, like beach of three nil this year.
• 1:27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Did you see my hat trick?
• 1:27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's a lot of different things, like like, but that type of banter I think brings our groups together faster.
• 1:28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like uh you guys had a great time, you guys competed against each other.
• 1:28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's what are our goals that we want to accomplish this year, and how do we get everybody moving to achieve those?
• 1:28:11
  SPEAKER_01: When so when you get them back, you get them back in three weeks.
• 1:28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have an event first or is it league games?
• 1:28:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, we so we start November, first week of November, and then we try to train a little bit before we get into competition.
• 1:28:29
  SPEAKER_00: Our 17s and 19s will play an event the week before Thanksgiving.
• 1:28:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think gives us three weeks of training, but it gives them an opportunity to get in front of college coaches after their high school season um into an environment where they get to be uh seen and evaluated by colleges pretty quickly into that club space.
• 1:28:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then then we like I the cadence that we have is we'll train three times a week, try to have a friendly on the weekend, um, go to an event in November, go to an event early December, play two weekends of league matches before Christmas, train three or four times during the Christmas break before we go in January to the Florida showcase.
• 1:29:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we have basically two and a half events before up until January 1st.
• 1:29:20
  SPEAKER_01: And how many league games do you guys have?
• 1:29:22
  SPEAKER_00: We will play 16 league games this year.
• 1:29:24
  SPEAKER_00: 16.
• 1:29:25
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll try to get three of them before Christmas, which works out in our cadence pretty well.
• 1:29:31
  SPEAKER_01: In all of your coaching education, did they talk about like how many games a player needs for proper development?
• 1:29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because I remember when the DA started, they were like, We were playing too many games, 36 was the beautiful number.
• 1:29:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you do you guys see that?
• 1:29:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's I mean, there's a lot of factors that go into training to match ratio, like the distances that our players have to travel for some games is too big to really say, like, we're only gonna play one game on this weekend, but we have to travel six hours to get there.
• 1:30:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that's pointless.
• 1:30:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, like playing games back to back is is normal.
• 1:30:14
  SPEAKER_00: We would like to have at least three training sessions a week.
• 1:30:17
  SPEAKER_00: What our weekend determin is determined by a league.
• 1:30:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think for us, 16 league games over a course of six months is extremely manageable.
• 1:30:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, perfect.
• 1:30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, and then what three per event?
• 1:30:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, three per person.
• 1:30:36
  SPEAKER_01: So we probably play unless you're making playoffs 30 to 33, 35 games within a seven month window.
• 1:30:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then they play high school where they get 20 games in 15 days.
• 1:30:51
  SPEAKER_01: But thanks for doing this.
• 1:30:53
  SPEAKER_01: I know you're made to, but uh, I appreciate it.
• 1:30:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you're welcome, dude.
• 1:30:58
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 1:30:59
  SPEAKER_01: I hate soccer.