Latest / The Long Burn / Episode 18 - The Strategic Pause

Transcript

Episode 18 - The Strategic Pause · The Long Burn

0:07
SPEAKER_01: Well, hello again.
0:08
SPEAKER_01: This is another episode of The Long Burn with Joel Mallon, a licensed professional counselor in Georgia and licensed mental health counselor in Florida, along with Dr.
0:17
SPEAKER_01: Jonathan Wade.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: He is the Doctor of Love.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: The Doctor of Romance.
0:22
SPEAKER_01: This is the Valentine's episode.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
0:26
SPEAKER_01: You don't like that?
0:29
SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean we all have to love it too.
0:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
0:33
unknown: Yeah.
0:34
SPEAKER_00: Well, well, hey Jonathan, how you doing?
0:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh well, apparently I'm uh loving it up.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: No, I'm doing good.
0:39
SPEAKER_01: You you are.
0:40
SPEAKER_00: He's he's just he's a lover, not a fighter.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: You know, that's yeah.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: Um he would give you his wallet, he would not fight you for it.
0:47
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
0:47
SPEAKER_01: No, no, I got bigger things to do.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: Uh probably.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: Oh, dude, I'd die over a wallet.
0:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, man, give me those quarters back.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: Like, I would fight over it.
0:55
SPEAKER_01: They could take it.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna call and cancel the credit cards.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: It's fine.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: It's you know, they won't get me one.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: Oh well, today we're we're talking about the idea of the power of strategic patience, of learning how to wait and how to know when you need to push and when you need to pause, take a break, or something like that, or wait for the situation to change.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so you know, we'll we'll do our our normal thing.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: We'll we'll bring back the old uh wins and losses.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: So do you have any wins and losses from this week, Jonathan?
1:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I I think our our biggest win is we are a few days away from closing on our fourth short to short-term rental.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: It'll be our third in Greenville, South Carolina.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: So that's always yeah, always fun and exciting.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: And I think the biggest win of this is Candace is already starting to look at the design stuff.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: A lot of times I'm having to push her or encourage her or repeatedly ask.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: And yesterday she's like, I think I'm gonna start looking at what all we need.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: And then today she was picking out wallpaper and found, and I was like, oh, I just love this.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: This is great.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: Now she claims she's just trying to get it done.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: But whatever.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: Whatever the motive is, it's still the ball's rolling forward.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: So that's fantastic.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: So that's a big time win for us.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: I think the loss, uh, well, I guess the loss, and this is more for her than me, is uh the oldest is going back for sophomore year at college.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: We're taking him back up there in about a week.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, she's all womp wont and sad, but it's a part of life.
2:18
SPEAKER_00: You know, he's got to get gone, he's gotta figure life out.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: So that's uh that's I guess I guess a loss, depending on your perspective.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: What about yourself, Joel?
2:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh wins and losses over here.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: So wins, uh, we have done very well.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: We're trying to buy a new house, and so we have done very well over this past weekend of getting some very good uh financial offers, um, accepting what we thought were very low offers that were accepted straight up, you know, and also get an over-asking house for our current price, which was an absolute blessing.
2:55
SPEAKER_01: So we had a uh inspection here today, and it's inspection, I think, tomorrow at the new property and stuff like that.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: And so just really excited to see how that pans out and really excited to see um kind of where I'm really hoping to see we we see more peace and stability and happiness and joy in our family, you know.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: For some reason, like uh Christy and I were discussing, we're just like, you know, the the past two years just haven't felt fun.
3:20
SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, there's a lot of research about like when it comes to like fulfillment in marriage, the the core of that is having fun together, just the same way you would have fun with a best friend or something like that.
3:31
SPEAKER_01: Are you having fun in your marriage?
3:33
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, it's not possible all the time.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: I mean, if somebody knows that secret, please drop us a line and let us know.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: But, you know, sometimes it just feels like the grind, it feels like um, you know, doing the thing and everything else.
3:45
SPEAKER_01: And so being able to get back to fun is kind of what we want to be able to do of feeling like we're having fun as a couple, feeling fun as parents and everything else, and and we're hoping that we're moving towards that.
3:57
SPEAKER_01: Uh, so that's definitely a win.
3:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, losses that this week and everything else, it's just managing the feeling of trying to be in too many places at once, you know.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, trying to do what you can to put fires out over here, but then you know, still having to engage with what's going on somewhere else and everything else, and and just trying to do that while while maintaining some semblance of stability.
4:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, we're already packing up the house and doing all that other stuff.
4:24
SPEAKER_01: The house is under contract.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think it's a normal challenge or a normal loss, I guess I would say, but um still something that that I'm trying to be aware of and I'm trying to acknowledge and kind of you know check in with myself, check in with Christy and figure out where she's at with all this.
4:39
SPEAKER_01: But um, both of us trying to be more positive and optimistic about what the future holds for us.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: And so um, you know, overall, still good stuff.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's not hard.
4:47
SPEAKER_01: It's still good stuff, though.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I agree.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're you're kind of closing one chapter and starting another one.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: The problem is they're in two different you know locations and it's a move and all these sort of things.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: And so that inherently moving's not fun, man.
5:01
SPEAKER_01: It's just not like there's nothing about moving the I don't care if there's someone gets beer and pizza for everybody who shows up, it still ain't fun.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: It's just not.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: No, it's work, that's for sure.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: So and it's like strategic work where you're like, let me do this, and we don't need to make this happen, and working on timelines and everything else.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: And so we'll we'll we'll definitely get through it.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: That's right, we'll figure it out.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: All right, all right.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: So we are getting about this idea.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the topic of strategic pause.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: So, Jonathan, give us some insight.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: Like, what what made you come up with this uh idea, this topic?
5:36
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think the biggest thing for me is is in a lot of the learning that I've done about you know business growth and development and and real estate investing and and all these different things.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: I think one of the biggest uh uh MO's that I hear over and over again sort of is the culture of this, you know, move fast, make decisions, break things, fail, learn, rinse and repeat, because the more times you fail, the faster that you fail, the the quicker you'll get to the right answer.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: And uh in in some instances I get that, but but I think for people that that maybe haven't been in business or been an entrepreneur or or done this for years and years, I think it can get very haphazard.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: I think it can get to a point where uh they will no longer be a business person, they will no longer be an entrepreneur.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: Um and so it really got me thinking, you know, there there's gotta be some sort of strategic patience, you know, not being passive, not doing those sort of things, but sort of a disciplined restraint to where we're making a choice to wait for the right conditions, the timing and and the insight, you know, and again, it's not looking for perfect situations, it's not looking for all of the answers, but it's not just haphazardly going about making decisions and uh as the world crumbles, thinking that you're learning and and gonna do more.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's where where we've kind of come to.
7:03
SPEAKER_00: And it's a more of a sophisticated you know, uh approach to business decisions and business growth.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: So uh, you know, I had, you know, whenever you positioned this topic and everything, it reminded me of uh this was a very long time ago.
7:21
SPEAKER_01: That this was back when I was in the army, this was back when I was living in New York and everything.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: And you know, strategic patience isn't is not my strong suit, you know, because the the idea is are you aiming for motion, are you aiming for progress?
7:34
SPEAKER_01: Um it's like I would rather drive 30 30 miles in 30 minutes than go four miles in in 30 minutes of traffic.
7:43
SPEAKER_01: You know, I hate just sitting, you know, and feeling like you're not getting somewhere.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: And so, like my my hardship is like constantly looking for just motion, just to keep me engaged, keep me active and stuff like that, versus just being patient and waiting for something to happen on its own terms.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: And so this was a long time ago when I was in the army.
8:02
SPEAKER_01: This is probably circa, you know, 2007, eight, something like that.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: And so I remember going to one of these, like, and this is from a financial standpoint.
8:12
SPEAKER_01: So I remember going to a rent-to-own place, and I was like, man, we need a couch and a love seat.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: You know, somebody had let us had given us a couch and a love seat, and they had dogs.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: And so, guess what?
8:22
SPEAKER_01: The couch and love seat that they gave us smelled like dogs, wet dog, probably.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: Uh wet dogs, of course, wet dogs.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: It's like dogs do not imbue like a clean dog smell into anything, it's always a wet dog smell.
8:35
SPEAKER_01: So um, this was years ago, and um I went to this rent-to-own place.
8:39
SPEAKER_01: They had a couch and a love seat sitting out front, and uh they had$500 sitting on the front.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay, you know, I've never in my life ever purchased anything from rent-to-own place.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not gonna pay, you know, that much extra for something just because uh if I don't have the money right now, I'm just not gonna get it.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: So um I go into this place and it's on a Monday, and I go in and I say, Hey, how much do you want for the couch in the love seat out front?
9:03
SPEAKER_01: And the guy's like, Well, I mean, it says it on there on the sign, it says$500.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: And I said, Um, I said, Well, I'll give you$250 for it.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: And the guy's like, No, it's$500.
9:13
SPEAKER_01: I said, Okay.
9:13
SPEAKER_01: I said, I'll be back tomorrow.
9:15
SPEAKER_01: And so sure enough, Tuesday.
9:17
SPEAKER_01: I show up over there.
9:18
SPEAKER_01: I said, uh, hey man, like I'd never been there before.
9:21
SPEAKER_01: I said, Hey man, how much do you want for the couch in the love seat out front?
9:24
SPEAKER_01: And he said, uh, and he kind of laughed a little bit and he was like, Well, it's$500.
9:28
SPEAKER_01: I said, I'll give you$250 for it.
9:30
SPEAKER_01: And he was like, No, I can't do that.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Okay, I said, I'll see you tomorrow.
9:33
SPEAKER_01: I came back on a Wednesday and the dude saw me before I even walked in and he starts laughing before I even walk in.
9:40
SPEAKER_01: I said, Hey, how much do you want for the couch and love seat out front?
9:43
SPEAKER_01: He said,$500.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: It's on the sign.
9:46
SPEAKER_01: I said, I'll give you$250 for it.
9:48
SPEAKER_01: And he was like, no, I can't do$250.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: I said, okay, I'll see you tomorrow.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: So I came back on Thursday and the dude now this time he's not laughing.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: He sees me walking up and he's like, you can tell he's like troubled.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: You know, so I walk up and I said, Hey man, how much do you want for the couch and the love seat out front?
10:06
SPEAKER_01: And he was like, he's like, you already know it's$500.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, I'm not gonna pay that.
10:11
SPEAKER_01: I said, I'll give you$250 for it though.
10:13
SPEAKER_01: And he was like, Well, then I can't sell it.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: I said, Okay, I said, I'll see you tomorrow.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: So this is on Friday, and I have hassled this man for a solid week, like a solid work week, five days.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: I come in on a Friday and he sees me coming in and he just looks defeated, you know.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: And I said, Hey man, how much do you want for the couch and love seat out front?
10:32
SPEAKER_01: And uh he was like, We've got it out there for$500.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: I said, I'll give you$250.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: He said, Well, hold on.
10:38
SPEAKER_01: He gets out of calculator and does his beep boop beep boop on his calculator.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: And uh he said, I can't do$250.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: And I and I said, Well, I mean, uh, well, what can you do?
10:48
SPEAKER_01: And he said, Well, could you do$273.28 or something like that?
10:52
SPEAKER_01: He's like, That's still what we owe on it or whatever.
10:55
SPEAKER_01: He's and I was like, Well, two.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: I said, Let me see if I've got any extra cash in my wallet, you know?
10:59
SPEAKER_01: And so sure enough, like I got this like couch and love seat for like 273 bucks or something.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: Because listen, I know these rent-to-owned places, they've already made their money on interest and everything else.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: And so, like, no, I'm not paying your$500 so you can continue making a profit.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: Like, and so this is the same time frame, like Dave Ramsey uh Financial Peace University was huge back then, you know, and that definitely gave me a good foundation of understanding a budget and how to be frugal and all this other stuff.
11:28
SPEAKER_01: And back then, I think I was even using the uh envelope system where you put cash in an envelope, you know.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: And if if you have fun money and you spend too much of it, well, then you're not having more fun this month.
11:38
SPEAKER_01: Like, sorry about it, man.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: And so um, but but the persistence finally paid off where the dude, I mean, it was like 20 bucks over what the the dollar amount that I wanted to pay.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: And like for me, it was worth it.
11:50
SPEAKER_01: It was still in good condition, everything.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: It didn't stink and all this other stuff.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, that persistence, that patience paid off, you know, because I could have pushed and been like, well, let me find another 250 bucks and I'll just buy this for 500 bucks.
12:01
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, no, I'm I mean, we have a stinky wet dog couch already, you know, that I can be patient with that, but what this is worth to me is 250, you know.
12:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I had told this to one of my coworkers that they do um the budgeting and uh financial management for uh sailors on the Navy base, and they were like, we've got to get you to tell that story, you know, and and it's a story I don't I don't think about it very often, but it's so funny because people love hearing it because it's just it's ridiculous.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, showing up five days, five separate days to spend time to do that is ridiculous over like 250 bucks.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: But for me, it was about the principle of it of like sometimes, you know, you do need to be patient and sometimes you need to push to make something happen.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: And I'll be completely honest, I don't often know the difference because I'm so focused on making progress that sometimes I'll agree to paying more for something than I should because I'm not patient enough.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, and the same is true, especially with like selling of houses and stuff like that.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you could easily jump into something if you offer over asking, like somebody's happy to take your offer.
13:05
SPEAKER_01: But if you're patient and like willing to let go of it, you know, you maybe get uh a much better offer or they accept a much better offer, you know, but but then you have to deal with the worry of, well, what if I lose this property?
13:19
SPEAKER_01: And that's something that sometimes I don't have the patience to deal with that.
13:22
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, I and I I think that that your story really uh pegs the the definition of strategic patience that I could I had sort of written down because it's it's a pause, it's intentional, but you're still working.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: Like you weren't in any rush to make that purchase, but you were working your angle, you were you were getting a better position, you were wear wearing this guy down, and and eventually you you won out on that defense.
13:46
SPEAKER_00: Oh, dude, he was sweating.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, easily Monday, you could have just coughed up the extra 250, paid the 500, rushed into that to get past your problem.
13:54
SPEAKER_00: And then I think on the other other side of that spectrum, you know, you could have said, well, I don't want to spend that money and be stuck with the wet dog couch.
14:01
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you you didn't overthink it.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: You weren't afraid to make the decision.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, and you also didn't rush into it.
14:07
SPEAKER_00: And so you found that happy medium um that really worked out truly in your favor.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: Right.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: And when we we had that couch for years, couch and love seat for years.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: And I think we sold it for$250 by the time we finally got rid of it, you know, or gave it to somebody else.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: I can't even remember it at this point.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: But it it's it's the idea of like pushing to make this happen is like, am I avoiding making the decision or am I making a conscious choice to wait and to pull back and wait for something to happen, wait for a better time frame or something along those lines?
14:39
SPEAKER_01: And so I mean there's a lot of green lights, you know, of like, hey, when do you need to actually push to make something happen?
14:45
SPEAKER_01: And some of it's like clarity over urgency.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: Are you trying to do something to solve a problem and do it quickly, or do you feel like it's actually a good choice?
14:53
SPEAKER_01: You know, sometimes, you know, like when a house is on the market and you're like, well, if we don't act quick, we're gonna lose this house.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: Well, maybe you should, because otherwise you run the risk of overpaying for it or something like that, or putting yourself in a financial bind, or you know, your interest rate's not right, whatever it is.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: You know, there's a lot of things that could could give you a reason of like, hey, you know, I need to go ahead and push for this or I need to wait.
15:17
SPEAKER_01: And some of it is like the reactivity, the, you know, the pause or the yellow or the red light or something like that is when you're too emotionally committed.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm really bad when it comes to something I want to do or something I want to purchase of feeling emotionally connected to it, you know.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: And so at some point you have to stop researching.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: Because today's market, you know, is different than it was, you know, 20 years ago, 30 years ago.
15:43
SPEAKER_01: That you can look online on Amazon, you can look at you know, reviews and all this other stuff, and you hype yourself up.
15:49
SPEAKER_01: And the more that you continue to look at information regarding this decision you have to make, the more likely it is that you're gonna rush the decision.
15:57
unknown: Yeah.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: And so never make it at helping me slow that down.
16:00
unknown: Yeah.
16:01
SPEAKER_01: Or never make it.
16:02
SPEAKER_01: You know, the analysis paralysis aspect of it where you're just, I don't know enough.
16:05
SPEAKER_01: I don't, I'm not gonna do it.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: And so I know that these are financial examples, but I think feel like in business, so much of it does depend on you know, financial resources to make those changes.
16:16
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
16:18
SPEAKER_00: Well, and I think you you hit on a good point there where I kind of broke it down into like genuine urgency, so external deadlines, right?
16:25
SPEAKER_00: You you gotta get a uh some business deal done, you got to get something taken care of that has a a true, tangible deadline um with consequences versus imposed urgency.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: So like kind of that that manufactured pressure you put on yourself to to make a decision, um you know, and then that leads to that anxiety, that worry, that stress.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: And so you either overthink it and don't do anything, or I guess underthink it and and decide too quickly without having sort of any knowledge, you know.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think that's perfect.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: That's why it's like I'd be terrible at sales.
17:01
SPEAKER_01: I would be absolutely terrible at sales.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: I'd be like, here's the thing, do you want it or not?
17:05
SPEAKER_01: You know, like that would be my approach, you know.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: I would give you factual information and then just be like, do you want it or not?
17:12
SPEAKER_01: Because any moment that I feel like I'm being sold something, dude, I want to back out.
17:17
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, nope, nope.
17:18
SPEAKER_01: If you're like, well, I can't guarantee this price tomorrow, well, then I don't want it.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: You know, like if if you're trying to play on my emotions to make me act now, then I don't want it.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if that's a flaw.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm so bad.
17:30
SPEAKER_01: Like, we go to Costco and they're like, You want a free sample?
17:33
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, hell no.
17:34
SPEAKER_01: Like, no, I don't want your free sample.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to buy your stuff, you know?
17:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
17:38
SPEAKER_01: It's like you don't want to try it.
17:39
SPEAKER_01: No, I don't want to try it because I don't want to buy it.
17:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: Well, and I I think you got the right approach there from a salesmany standpoint.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: You know, when we're faced with maybe some of this, this uh imposed urgency or or or a situation that maybe we are being pressured to do externally, even we've all had that kind of funny feeling in our stomach or or kind of kind of weird sensation.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: It just doesn't feel right.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: And and that's that gut gut instinct, that motherly instinct, that whatever you want to call it.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: And I I think we have to start listening to that because it's it's sort of our our brain giving our body some signals to say, hey, look, like dude, you'll we'll figure out this isn't right, but let's not make this decision as a as a knee-jerk type situation.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: Well, in the the impulse that we have is let me just spend the money to fix the problem.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: You know, like let's say your your fridge stops working.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: Well, does it need to be repaired or do you need to buy a new fridge?
18:38
SPEAKER_01: Well, you don't know that yet.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: And so, but you're then then the question is, well, do I pay somebody to come inspect it and tell me what the repair cost is going to be?
18:46
SPEAKER_01: Or do I just say screw it and go get a new fridge?
18:49
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
18:49
SPEAKER_01: You know, um, we've had to fix a couple appliances at the house here, you know, that we've had, and it was like a$300 fix, which, you know,$300 is not insignificant, but I mean it's uh definitely more than I wanted to pay, but it's still cheaper than buying a brand new freaking fridge, you know?
19:04
SPEAKER_01: And so this happens a lot, and I I don't have a lot of experience with this, but I've worked with a lot of clients that have this response is the idea of fixing it when it comes to kids.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: So is it is struggling a bad thing?
19:17
SPEAKER_01: So broad question is struggling a bad thing?
19:19
SPEAKER_01: What would you be your response to that?
19:20
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not, it's necessary.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: Right.
19:24
SPEAKER_01: So imagine as a parent, you see your child struggling, you know, and so you're like, oh well, they're they're having a hard time or they're not dealing with this well or something like that.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: Let me just go ahead and fix it.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: I've got the resources, the knowledge, the experience, the wisdom, whatever it is.
19:37
SPEAKER_01: Let me just fix it for them.
19:38
SPEAKER_01: What does your kid learn?
19:40
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely nothing.
19:42
SPEAKER_01: Or that you'll do it for them.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: Okay, then who right?
19:45
SPEAKER_01: So I mean, then who is the response for then?
19:47
SPEAKER_01: If it's not if it doesn't benefit the child, who's the response for?
19:50
SPEAKER_01: Oh, my time.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: It's for the parent.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: You know, is that the parent doesn't want to deal with the emotional strain of seeing or observing or witnessing their child's struggle, or they want don't want to hear him complain anymore, whatever it is.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: Right.
20:06
SPEAKER_01: You know, and so the parent actually feels compassion for themselves, which creates the motivation to fix a problem for the child, and the child learns nothing except for somebody else is gonna pick me up every time that I fail.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: Instead of learning how to embrace failure, understand failure, or cope with failure, the child then has this assumption that, well, somebody else is gonna fix it if I ever screw up.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: Right.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: And that is a terrible assumption.
20:28
SPEAKER_01: You know, that does not motivate them to be an independent person in the world.
20:31
SPEAKER_01: That motivates them to be dependent on everyone else around them to fix their circumstances.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: And so then, you know, parents fool themselves a lot of times into believing they're doing what's in the best interest of their child when in reality they're reacting to their own emotional trouble.
20:45
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
20:46
SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, going through this idea of fixing it, you know, instead of being patient, like you know, with with Gideon, when he goes down to sleep, he'll wake up and he'll start whining or something like that.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: And Christy's response is, oh, let me go get him, let me go make sure he goes back to sleep.
20:59
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, give it a minute.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: Like, give him a minute.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: He's got to figure out how to get himself back to sleep, you know.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: And and sometimes it's a good thing, and we'll we'll give it a time frame of like maybe we'll let him kind of cry or whine a little bit for maybe five, 10 minutes, and then we'll go in and we'll get him if if need be.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: But there's so many times that I was like, hey, just give it a second, you know, and he puts himself down to sleep.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: You know, and the same thing is true with other people.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't know.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: A lot of people, I me personally, I don't want somebody to fix something for me.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: I want the benefit of saying, hey, I was able to endure this or resolve this on my own.
21:33
SPEAKER_01: And I get a lot of satisfaction from that.
21:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, you become stronger, you learn, it it equips you for that that next phase of life.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: Like kind of we've talked about that leveling up.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: You know, that's exactly where you're you all all of these setbacks, all these issues.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: Uh if if somebody else fixes them, we can't level up, we can't be a better version of ourselves.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: But but if we do it, then we're ready to handle it next time with ease.
21:57
SPEAKER_01: Right.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: And that's the thing is is we we Create a new threshold.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: Every time we endure a challenge, we create a new threshold for what we're our capacity.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: You know, um, like whether it's going to the gym or running something along the fitness line or something like that.
22:12
SPEAKER_01: If you run six miles in I don't know, just say let's say you're doing eight minute miles.
22:18
SPEAKER_01: Well, then okay, that's your new threshold.
22:20
SPEAKER_01: So now you want to challenge that.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: And can I can I work to 745 miles or seven and a half minute miles or something like that?
22:27
SPEAKER_01: You know, we want to strive to improve and everything else, but we cannot do that when somebody else comes along and just fixes it for us.
22:35
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: No, I agree.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: And then I think that leads to a lot of the things we see in in society today with this analysis paralysis, with this indecisiveness or thinking that somebody else is just, like you said, going to fix that problem.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: You know, I I kind of see sort of three things when it comes to that that that delayed decision making.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: It's it's the analysis paralysis, you know, trying to tell ourselves I don't have enough information, I can always learn more.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: And like you said, in today's society, that's it's an infinite amount of information.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: So you could always just kick that can down the road.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: I think the other is people wanting to have sort of that that perfect environment, that perfect setup, which uh we all know that that's that's never gonna be perfect, you know, and and so if if you can figure out that next thing to do, that's your first step.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: Because after that first step, you'll figure out the second and the third and so on and so forth.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: It's never going to be perfect, but you're gonna get that progress.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: Like, like you were saying, that's what you feed off of is feeling like you're accomplishing something, but you're doing it at your own pace versus rushing through it.
23:36
SPEAKER_00: And then I think the last little bit is it's not really progress, though.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: It's just movement.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: It's not really progress, it's just movement.
23:44
SPEAKER_01: I'm doing something.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: Something is it productive?
23:46
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
23:47
SPEAKER_00: But if but if but if you can take one step in front of the other and make that a calculated decision, then I think it is, regardless of of the pace.
23:55
SPEAKER_00: We all want to hustle, hustle, hustle.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: But if if we can take that strategic time to pause and make good steps forward, not just a step forward, I guess is the way to look at that.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think the last one, and I suffer from this the most, is is using comfort as a strategy.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: Like if I don't make a decision, if I don't put myself out there, then I can't get hurt, I can't fail, and and so I'm just gonna sit right here and and be happy in in my little zone, you know.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: So we we talk a lot about discomfort.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: But you can't even move either.
24:29
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, right.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: You have to get comfortable being uncomfortable.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: That's the only way to grow.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: That's the only way to get better.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: So so I think those are sort of my three things that I see in terms of of that that delaying, kicking the can, whatever you want to put it uh in in terms of, you know, but I I always like this, and I I posed this to a patient the other day.
24:51
SPEAKER_00: You know, he he is on that that cusp of of business building and growth.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: And I said, you know, if you knew you couldn't fail, would you still be waiting around?
25:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, if you knew everything was gonna go well, would you pull the trigger?
25:05
SPEAKER_00: Because if you're not, then there's a problem.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: Right.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: Well, I I think of it like so there's a principle of confirmation bias that sometimes we believe something is a good idea because we believe it's a good idea.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: You know, it doesn't mean that it is, it's just that because I've already chosen to believe that this is the right answer, I'm going to kind of impulsively pursue this because I believe it's the right answer.
25:31
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
25:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, so for example, if you're let's say you're gonna buy something on Amazon, you know, we don't just think, you know, because let's let's flash back 200 years ago.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: Let's say that uh you're living in a small town, and let's say you're in Utah, could just see you living in Utah as a pioneer, Jonathan.
25:47
SPEAKER_01: That's exactly that's your that's your moment.
25:50
SPEAKER_01: I'm not building it.
25:51
SPEAKER_01: That's your moment right there.
25:53
SPEAKER_01: Probably a prospecting family.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: I can see you get painting for gold.
25:56
SPEAKER_01: So anyway, always done on the let's say you went to the you probably good, you probably have had dysentery and didn't even know it, you know.
26:05
SPEAKER_01: Um but going back to that, let's say you went to the general store and you asked them, you're like, hey, I'd like to get a new pair of shoes.
26:14
SPEAKER_01: They would ask you a question.
26:15
SPEAKER_01: They would say, Do you want black or brown?
26:19
SPEAKER_01: And you're like, and I mean, today's society is like, do you want tennis shoes?
26:22
SPEAKER_01: Do you want flip-flops?
26:23
SPEAKER_01: Do you want slides?
26:24
SPEAKER_01: Do you want boots?
26:24
SPEAKER_01: Do you want, you know, versus back then your options were only in color.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't in functionality or anything like that.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: And so, I mean, to this idea of analysis paralysis, it is absolutely a real thing.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: Because going on Amazon, there are like if you can think of it, you know, it probably exists.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, it's probably gonna come from China, but it probably exists.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: And and so my problem is is I've got this confirmation bias problem where I've already believed that I need this thing, that this thing will make my life better or more productive, whatever it is.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: And so now, you know, we're starting the process of what do we do?
26:59
SPEAKER_01: We look at reviews, we look at Amazon reviews, and so we've already convinced ourselves this is what we want.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: So which ones do we gravitate towards?
27:06
SPEAKER_01: Which reviews?
27:07
SPEAKER_01: The positive ones or the negative ones?
27:09
SPEAKER_01: Oh, the positive ones.
27:12
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, because I'm trying to feed what I already chose to believe about something.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: So I'm only gonna look at the four and five-star reviews.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: And so anybody who gives it like two stars, I'm gonna discount it.
27:23
SPEAKER_01: Like, well, they don't know what they're talking about.
27:24
SPEAKER_01: They probably didn't look at the instructions and put it together right.
27:27
SPEAKER_01: You know, I'll find out some reasoning that uh that I can discount that statement instead of thinking, okay, well, maybe there are some flaws with this, or maybe this isn't the best product.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: And so we're looking at how many reviews does it have, how many stars does it get from the average of those reviews and everything else in order to support what we've already decided.
27:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:47
SPEAKER_01: And so we we don't pause, we we feed the beast.
27:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, oh yeah.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: You just fill that card up, that's what it is.
27:56
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
27:57
SPEAKER_01: But and so you know, I have to be really careful about that because once what's that?
28:02
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I was gonna say, what's better?
28:04
SPEAKER_00: Something with 4.6 stars and a thousand reviews, or something with 4.7 and 50 reviews.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: Oh, bump that.
28:12
SPEAKER_01: Bump that.
28:12
SPEAKER_01: I need a bigger demographic.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: You know, that's my analysis paralysis.
28:17
SPEAKER_01: So you get 50 happy people.
28:19
SPEAKER_01: I know, I know, and so we're looking at the volume of the reviews, even.
28:23
SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, I'm so bad about like once I get something in my head, it's like I cannot let it go.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: And Christy's really good at saying, like, hey, can we wait on this?
28:34
SPEAKER_01: Like, she's much better at pausing than I am because I'm so worried about missing out on an opportunity that I tend to want to speed the speed the process up.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and that could be a very bad thing, but there's times whenever I need her to speed up, and she's like, Well, I'm not ready to speed up.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm telling you, I need you to speed up, you know?
28:52
SPEAKER_01: And so we balance each other very well because she helps me slow down when I need to, and I kind of help motivate her to speed up whenever we need to.
29:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it and it's absolutely a balance, and and that's why I believe so much in complementarity in relationships, is like, you know, I need somebody who's strong in areas that I'm not.
29:10
SPEAKER_01: Does it get on my nerves?
29:11
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
29:12
SPEAKER_01: It absolutely frustrates me and drives me insane, but it's necessary.
29:16
SPEAKER_01: And so I can either like choose to see that as a positive thing or a good thing, or I can think, oh, well, my wife's against me.
29:23
SPEAKER_01: She doesn't want me to be happy.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: And and I honestly don't believe that's the case whatsoever.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: We're just different people, and we can choose to uh, you know, be be receptive to the influence of one another, or we can just choose to see it as a problem, and then you're gonna find no happiness or no satisfaction in that relationship.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think when you can appreciate that it's a different perspective and it's you and her against the problem.
29:46
SPEAKER_00: That's something that Candace and I have worked on.
29:47
SPEAKER_00: It's the two of us versus the problem versus the problem between the two of us.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: I I think that fixes a lot a lot of those things.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: But you're right, that that that complementary kind of component in any sort of relationship, be that a marriage, a business relationship, I think that's key to avoiding either the too quick decision or the analysis paralysis when you've got people that have different backgrounds look looking at those problems.
30:10
SPEAKER_00: So I I think that's exactly right.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:16
SPEAKER_01: Well, uh, well, we did it.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: We've been we've been yammering about this for 30 minutes.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: So I mean, any other like final thoughts about like what's the benefit of the pause?
30:25
SPEAKER_01: Um any any kind of final thoughts to kind of close out on?
30:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I think that sort of my uh maybe maybe strategic answer here to the strategic patience um would sort of be a few points.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: Build that pause into the process, right?
30:41
SPEAKER_00: Don't don't feel like you're delaying, you're waiting.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: Know that you're gonna take 24, 48 hours to make a decision, you're gonna deliberate, you're gonna talk to your significant other, you're gonna talk to your business partner, you know.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: So, so build that as part of the architecture.
30:56
SPEAKER_00: I think, like I said before, understanding the the genuine urgency and situations like that versus the the internal manufactured imposed urgency so that that you can recognize what what you're feeling uh from an emotional standpoint.
31:11
SPEAKER_00: Um I I think, and and we talk a lot about this in the real estate investment world, your buy box, your buy box criteria.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: So I only buy four-bedroom, three-bath houses that are ranch style built before 1960 in the southeast, yada, yada, yada.
31:28
SPEAKER_00: Right.
31:28
SPEAKER_00: So if a great deal comes along my desk and it's not that, I just push it away.
31:33
SPEAKER_00: I I don't I don't I don't care what the metrics say, it's not my buy box.
31:36
SPEAKER_00: So having having those criteria prepared in advance to know what decisions are gonna push you to go yes and what decisions are gonna push you to to pause, right?
31:46
SPEAKER_00: And and think a little bit more about it.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: Right.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: And then I think tracking.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: I think we talk about this a lot.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: What doesn't get measured doesn't get, you know, that doesn't matter.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: And so you you need to you need to put some metrics to this and look at well, I I this is the strategy I took to make this decision.
32:01
SPEAKER_00: And I think a great one, and I'm trying not to get long-winded, was our last hire here at Orchard Health.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: We went about that process completely different, went through multiple phases and rounds of interviews.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: And and I think that's the way we'll do it from now on.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: It was totally different than anything we've done before, but it ended up in a good hire across the board from someone that fits in the culture well.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: And and so I think that that's a this that's a way to track.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: And when we do this in the future, this is how we're gonna do it.
32:32
SPEAKER_00: We're not just gonna sit on the phone with somebody and say, Yeah, you're hired.
32:34
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna go through that process.
32:36
SPEAKER_00: So have having some having a plan for this strategic pause and not just saying, well, I'm gonna wait and think about it.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's my sort of my ending thing.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: I've seen a huge move like in industry in general that, you know, they're hiring based on personality and fit instead of just, you know, what your resume says.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: Because you could have somebody who is, let's say, the smartest medical person in the world, but if they don't get along with your team and the patients don't like them, nobody's gonna listen to what they have to say.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: You know, same thing with clinicians.
33:07
SPEAKER_01: If you don't know how to generate a connection with somebody, they do not care what you have to say.
33:12
SPEAKER_01: Like they're gonna discount it or they're gonna just continue doing whatever they were doing before, or they're gonna find another clinician.
33:17
SPEAKER_01: Right.
33:17
SPEAKER_01: And so I think I love the fact that we're looking at, you know, what are the soft skills?
33:22
SPEAKER_01: You know, like we do not focus enough on what are the soft skills of connection, of empathy, of insight, and all this other stuff.
33:28
SPEAKER_01: A vision, what's the vision that this person has?
33:30
SPEAKER_01: Because if you bring someone on board that has no vision, they're gonna push back at every like opportunity for change that comes along, even if it's an improvement, simply because they do not want to do anything differently.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I I I I think that taking that time, making those decisions, I think is super, super important.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: And and we've we've seen the fruits of that, of that labor um uh within our own business here.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that that's about all I got on the on the topic.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: I I really appreciate you uh joining in with this one um because like I said, in in some of the the business things that I do, there's there's that hustle, hustle, hustle, gotta go, gotta go, always moving, whether that's in in place or or held backwards, you know, uh to where maybe we think a little bit more.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: So that's my my strategic point.
34:19
SPEAKER_01: And that's the thing I would challenge people to uh that's what I challenge people to look at.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: Are you are you just trying to create motion or are you actually making progress?
34:26
SPEAKER_01: Because that's the thing I've got to look at constantly, you know, because I love movement.
34:30
SPEAKER_01: I love being able to have something to do to keep me busy, but that doesn't mean I'm actually going anywhere.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, being in a rowboat with a broken paddle.
34:38
SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, you're moving water, but you're not really you know moving yourself forward.
34:42
SPEAKER_01: And and so I've got to be very cautious against that.
34:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:46
SPEAKER_01: So all right.
34:48
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, focus on patience.
34:50
SPEAKER_01: That's the thing we love to have, you know, not getting what we want now, focusing on delayed gratification, uh, deferring that stuff.
34:56
SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, that's all we got for today.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: So uh thank you guys for listening to the long burn, and we will catch you next week.
35:02
SPEAKER_01: Jonathan, I hope you have a good week.
35:04
SPEAKER_01: You too, Joel.
35:05
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
35:05
SPEAKER_01: I hope you don't stub your toe on anything today.
35:08
SPEAKER_01: And I hope not either.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: That sucks.
35:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I hope you don't accidentally get cut and eat stitches or something like that.
35:14
SPEAKER_01: You know, I hope it's just a good week.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: I love how specific you're getting with these things.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: If you pause, I come up with some more.
35:27
SPEAKER_01: All right, you guys.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: Well, y'all have a great week, and we will catch you next time.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: This is Joel signing off.
35:33
SPEAKER_01: And Jonathan, bye.
35:34
SPEAKER_01: Say goodbye, Jonathan.
35:36
SPEAKER_01: Bye, Jonathan.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: All right, bye.