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Long Island Serial Killer Snared: Heuermann Guilty! Wife's Reality Show? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:07
Speaker 2: The Long Island serial killer snared in court. Rex Hureman,
0:14
Speaker 2: smirking the whole time, admits I'm guilty, But wait, what
0:19
Speaker 2: does this mean for his wife's reality show.
0:24
Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to
0:26
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us.
0:28
Speaker 2: Sightings of the victims, phone calls are from the victims.
0:31
Speaker 2: Train rides by the victims, victims that left and never
0:36
Speaker 2: came back, keeping a victim alive for days on and
0:42
Speaker 2: so he could play with him. There are going to
0:46
Speaker 2: be more victims uncovered of the Long Island serial killer
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Speaker 2: Rex Hureman.
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Speaker 3: The com serene, almost grandfatherly image that Rex Human portrayed
0:57
Speaker 3: since his arrest was a lie, quite frankly, an insult
1:01
Speaker 3: to both law enforcement but more importantly the families that
1:05
Speaker 3: had to endure that during every court appearance over the
1:08
Speaker 3: last two and a half years. Today he was exposed
1:12
Speaker 3: for exactly what he is. A sadistic, soulless, murderous monster.
1:20
Speaker 4: This case closes and another one opens. You know, there
1:23
Speaker 4: are still you know, bodies on that beach. There are
1:25
Speaker 4: still bodies in Suffolk County. There's no rest for the
1:28
Speaker 4: weary We are going to continue to work with our
1:32
Speaker 4: partners and to try to obtain closure for as many
1:36
Speaker 4: families as we can.
1:37
Speaker 2: That the police commissioner and the Suffolk County District Attorney
1:42
Speaker 2: speaking unmasked finally in court in lieu of a long trial,
1:49
Speaker 2: a guilty plea. But just as we saw in the
1:53
Speaker 2: Idaho case, the Idaho for four Beautiful University Idaho students
1:59
Speaker 2: murdered generally speaking in their sleep by.
2:04
Speaker 1: One person, Brian Coberger.
2:06
Speaker 2: Once again, like in Coburger, we will never really know
2:12
Speaker 2: the facts because there is no trial now. Unlike Idaho,
2:18
Speaker 2: where the death penalty does exist, in rex Hueman's jurisdiction,
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Speaker 2: you can kill as many people as you want and
2:25
Speaker 2: there is no death penalty.
2:29
Speaker 1: What does this mean for his wife's reality show?
2:31
Speaker 2: That's certainly something to ponder straight out to Crime Stories
2:34
Speaker 2: investigative reporter Dave Matt.
2:37
Speaker 1: Dave Matt a Long Island serial killer.
2:40
Speaker 2: The Long Island serial killer Rex Hueman finally sneered in court.
2:45
Speaker 5: What happened once this all hit court with the announcement
2:49
Speaker 5: that he was changing his plea. A lot of people
2:53
Speaker 5: were looking at Asa Ellerp as you just mentioned, and
2:56
Speaker 5: her reality show.
2:57
Speaker 1: It was a three part.
2:58
Speaker 5: Series that included interviews with the couple's daughter, Victoria. And
3:04
Speaker 5: it looks like now the cameras are going to continue
3:08
Speaker 5: to roll and add additional episodes to the show called
3:13
Speaker 5: The Gilgo Beach Killer House of Secrets. So it looks
3:17
Speaker 5: like that show will continue.
3:19
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm a little more interested.
3:21
Speaker 2: Tonight, Dave Mack in the Guilty Please, a sudden change
3:27
Speaker 2: of plea throws the courtroom in an uproar. Rex Hueman,
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Speaker 2: the admitted Long Island serial killer, pleads guilty. In addition
3:36
Speaker 2: to Dave matt Crime Story's investigative reporter joining us also tonight,
3:41
Speaker 2: Josh Zeeman, investigative journalist, documentary film director. He's been on
3:46
Speaker 2: the case from the very beginning and he is the
3:48
Speaker 2: director of the Killing Season. It's a docuseriies that helped
3:53
Speaker 2: shed new light on the Gilgo Beach murders. Josh, thank
3:58
Speaker 2: you for being with us. Describe what happened in court.
4:01
Speaker 6: Well, Nancy, it was a tense moment for sure, everybody
4:04
Speaker 6: waiting to see if Rex would actually plead, and he
4:07
Speaker 6: did eight separate times to these women. The question is,
4:11
Speaker 6: while he was admitting these crimes, he never once turned
4:13
Speaker 6: back to look at the families. He was smirking, And
4:16
Speaker 6: the question is why was he smirking. Was he smirking
4:19
Speaker 6: because he was forced to admit what he'd done, or
4:21
Speaker 6: because he knew there were other victims out there that
4:23
Speaker 6: he was getting away with.
4:25
Speaker 2: You know, Josh, that is certainly a scary thought, scaring
4:30
Speaker 2: even me who have actually prosecuted serial killers. Before smirking,
4:36
Speaker 2: you know, I thought he was smirking at the victims'
4:40
Speaker 2: families or at the justice system itself. But you again
4:46
Speaker 2: have shed a whole new light on this. Is he
4:49
Speaker 2: smirking because he knows there are other murder victims, other
4:54
Speaker 2: defenseless women that he stripped, tortured and murdered, keeping the
5:00
Speaker 2: alive in his dungeon basement for days and days on
5:03
Speaker 2: end when his wife would be out of town, we
5:05
Speaker 2: think days.
5:07
Speaker 1: And you believe there.
5:09
Speaker 2: Is a chance that he's smirking because he knows there
5:12
Speaker 2: are other victims out there that haven't been found.
5:16
Speaker 6: Absolutely, for sure, it's the tragic.
5:20
Speaker 1: I'm curious, why do you say that?
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Speaker 6: Because we know the remains that were deposit in Ocean Parkway.
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Speaker 6: There's other folks. There's Asian Doe, Carmen Vargas, there's numerous
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Speaker 6: folks out there who and have you heard the disric
5:34
Speaker 6: attorney say it himself. You know there are other bodies
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Speaker 6: on that beach, and I was there at the press conference.
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Speaker 6: He says, sometimes it doesn't matter what I think, it
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Speaker 6: matters what I can prove. And so his next goal
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Speaker 6: is to try and prove it, to try and find
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Speaker 6: these other victims, identify some of them, and again bring
5:50
Speaker 6: Rex to justice for these victims.
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Speaker 2: Tragic.
5:55
Speaker 1: Mike Gougle joining US.
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Speaker 2: Former Nanessau County lieutenant, founding member of the NYPD Canine Unit.
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Speaker 2: He's led multiple investigations into serial killers, including the Gilgo
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Speaker 2: Beach killer on Long Island, also Secret Service to Presidents. Mike,
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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. That has got to
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Speaker 2: put a shiver down your spine. Thinking that there are
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Speaker 2: other victis mean. The guy who's just in court in
6:19
Speaker 2: the last hours pleading guilty to multiple murders. And these
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Speaker 2: women weren't just bam.
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Speaker 1: You're dead.
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Speaker 2: They were kidnapped, they were stripped, they were bound, they
6:31
Speaker 2: were tortured for days on end while his wife was
6:35
Speaker 2: away in his underground basement dungeon, and then ultimately murdered.
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Speaker 2: They went through hell, and I wonder, I wonder, Mike,
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Speaker 2: were they thinking of their children they would never see again.
6:52
Speaker 2: It's excruciating for me. I hate to even imagine what
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Speaker 2: they went through. And now the specter brought up by
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Speaker 2: Joshu Zeeman and he's not of other women out there
7:03
Speaker 2: somewhere under the sand.
7:07
Speaker 7: Yeah, Nancy, no doubt about it. Unfortunately though, rex Ureman
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Speaker 7: is not the only serial killer. This is a very
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Speaker 7: unique area. It's I'm intimately familiar with. I patrolled the
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Speaker 7: area for almost seven years with police dogs. I trained
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Speaker 7: police dogs by Tate daytime. It's a beautiful recreational area.
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Speaker 7: At night, it's a haunting, haunting, dark, desolate area, and
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Speaker 7: it's proximity to JFK Airport. Rex ewer Men literally live
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Speaker 7: fifteen minute drive from here from the locations where the
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Speaker 7: bodies were, so it's a haunting place. There's no doubt
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Speaker 7: there's other bodies out there. The bodies have been being
7:44
Speaker 7: dispersed out there since the eighties during the Mafia gang wars,
7:50
Speaker 7: so it's just a question of actually locating. And of course, frankly,
7:54
Speaker 7: this is a very desolate area. It's finding bodies is
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Speaker 7: like finding a needle in a haystack.
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Speaker 1: Okay, this is something I don't stand.
8:01
Speaker 2: You are a founding member of NYPD, and I speak
8:06
Speaker 2: very highly of the NYPD. Like every LA law enforcement agency,
8:10
Speaker 2: he's got its problems and it's bad apples, But you
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Speaker 2: are the pinnacle NYPD.
8:16
Speaker 1: That's who all the other pds look up to. Right,
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Speaker 1: It's very hard for.
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Speaker 2: Me to believe that a K nine or a team
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Speaker 2: of knines cannot find all the dead bodies. Cadaver dogs,
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Speaker 2: that's what I'm talking about, one hundred percent.
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Speaker 7: This is why cracked this case. A Suffolk County Police
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Speaker 7: Department cadabit dog found the first victim. Without that, there
8:41
Speaker 7: would be no DNA evidence. Without that, obviously there was
8:44
Speaker 7: great work by all the DNA invest all of those things,
8:48
Speaker 7: but without the bodies, you have a very difficult case
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Speaker 7: to prove. So dogs are considered in court as scientific
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Speaker 7: instruments to overcome warrantless searches. So there's nothing like a
9:00
Speaker 7: dog to find odorless microscopic skin cells that are dispersed.
9:06
Speaker 7: But again, this is a big area, NANC. It's different terrain,
9:10
Speaker 7: there's sand, there's a lot of vegetation. So again it's
9:14
Speaker 7: not a question of if other bodies will be found
9:16
Speaker 7: in I think the DA spoke to this. It's just
9:18
Speaker 7: a matter of when it's nothing new to us New
9:20
Speaker 7: Yorkers that this has been. You go from a high congested,
9:26
Speaker 7: highly trafficked, illuminated areas, you drive ten minutes fifteen minutes
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Speaker 7: from Kennedy Airport or Rex Huberman's house, and it's creepy.
9:34
Speaker 7: It's creepy. I used to park my police car, turn
9:37
Speaker 7: the lights out, and you could see five miles in
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Speaker 7: either direction of any cars coming or going. So guess
9:43
Speaker 7: what if the police can do that, the bad guys
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Speaker 7: can do the exact same thing. There's no curves and
9:49
Speaker 7: there's a lot of places to sneak and hide. So yeah,
9:55
Speaker 7: it's a creepy, haunting place, and it's been that way
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Speaker 7: for many, many years.
9:59
Speaker 2: You're seeing Vivia from Friends at ABC seven is Hueerman's home,
10:03
Speaker 2: which has fallen in intense dish repair.
10:12
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace Mike again.
10:20
Speaker 2: Cadaver dogs. They don't care if it's daylight or nighttime.
10:26
Speaker 2: Their nose works the same way. So let me understand,
10:30
Speaker 2: it's very clear from what the Suffolk County District Attorney
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Speaker 2: Ray Tierney said that he believes there are other bodies
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Speaker 2: on this beach. Why can't the cadaver dogs find them?
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Speaker 7: They can, they have the capability of doing. First of all,
10:45
Speaker 7: there's not a lot of cadaver dogs because there's not
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Speaker 7: a great need for them, so there's not a lot
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Speaker 7: of them, but they certainly could. And there's volunteer organizations
10:54
Speaker 7: that train cadavid dogs all over the country. So yeah,
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Speaker 7: it's just right. And they are continuing searching. There was
11:00
Speaker 7: police activity out there the other night. I don't know
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Speaker 7: specifically for what reason. So yeah, the search is on.
11:07
Speaker 7: It's never going to end. And as I said, it's
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Speaker 7: nothing new. You can, as I said, Rex lived fifteen
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Speaker 7: to twenty minutes, you drive over a bridge and you
11:18
Speaker 7: go from Long Island to a desolate You don't have
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Speaker 7: to drive a body upstate New York. You don't have
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Speaker 7: to drive two or three hours like in Goodfellows to
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Speaker 7: dump the body upstate New York. When you can literally
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Speaker 7: drive ten minutes from Queens Brooklyn and you're in this
11:34
Speaker 7: it's like an alternate universe out there, no lights, no stores,
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Speaker 7: very little police activity. Police don't patrol there because there's
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Speaker 7: nothing out there in the winter. By day again it's
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Speaker 7: a beautiful recreational there. By night, there's nothing out there,
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Speaker 7: and it's continued that way today. I was just down
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Speaker 7: there the other night at one o'clock in the morning,
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Speaker 7: and it's eerie. There's nothing. There's no rescue workers. I mean,
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Speaker 7: if you call nine one one, you know there's a
11:58
Speaker 7: fifteen or twenty minute response time minimally because they got
12:02
Speaker 7: to go over bridges, three miles of bridges to get
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Speaker 7: to this barren beach area control room.
12:08
Speaker 2: I want to see the victims' faces, and I want
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Speaker 2: to see them close up, not a distant shot of
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Speaker 2: all of them in a group. I want to see
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Speaker 2: their faces, one by one, look at them. They begged
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Speaker 2: for their lives. They begged to go back to their children.
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Speaker 2: They promised they wouldn't tell, They promised they wouldn't call police.
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Speaker 1: Instead, they were.
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Speaker 2: Stripped, bound, tortured, raped, murdered, and their bodies buried along
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Speaker 2: a lonely stretch of beach, and Rex Hueman stands in
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Speaker 2: court smirking, why why Because they died and he lives
13:04
Speaker 2: because he's now going to be treated like the teacher's
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Speaker 2: pet by the FBI profilers.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.
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Speaker 2: There're going to be many many interviews by the FBI
13:15
Speaker 2: profiling him this piece of crap. And I guarantee you
13:20
Speaker 2: one day he'll take part in his own documentary and
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Speaker 2: there will be money made off of it.
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Speaker 1: It's happening. Put money on it.
13:30
Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan joining me. Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,
13:35
Speaker 2: author of bestseller Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.
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Speaker 1: He is the star of.
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Speaker 2: A hit podcast, Body Bags The Joseph Scott Morgan. But
13:45
Speaker 2: for my purposes tonight. He is a death investigator, a
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Speaker 2: very experienced veteran death investigator with over ten thousand death
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Speaker 2: scenes of all sorts under his belt, over ten thousand.
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Speaker 2: I first met him when I was a prosecutor in
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Speaker 2: intercity in Atlanta and he was working for the Medical
14:09
Speaker 2: Examiner's Office at that time. That's a long time ago,
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Speaker 2: Joe Scott, and you haven't let up. You like me,
14:17
Speaker 2: like Gould, like Zeeman, have walked the beach. Do you
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Speaker 2: concur with Gould's comments?
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Speaker 8: Explain absolutely, and let me tell you why. You know,
14:30
Speaker 8: obviously you can hear my voice. I'm from the South,
14:32
Speaker 8: and you know we think about the rural areas down here.
14:36
Speaker 8: You get up into this region and you leave what
14:39
Speaker 8: they refer to as the city. When you leave the
14:42
Speaker 8: city and you're heading out, you know, as mister Gould
14:45
Speaker 8: had mentioned just a moment ago, you get there, this
14:47
Speaker 8: is rural. This is what they consider going to the country.
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Speaker 8: And it's not it's not an unfair description because it
14:53
Speaker 8: does go dark really really quickly. And here's the thing,
14:57
Speaker 8: my good buddy, Sergeant Joe Jack Loan, he took me
15:02
Speaker 8: to the location where the Gilgo bodies were actually found.
15:06
Speaker 8: And one of the things that I came away from
15:09
Speaker 8: from that visit to that location was the fact that
15:13
Speaker 8: one side of the roadway you've got this marshy area.
15:18
Speaker 8: It is prohibitive for anybody to go into there. You've
15:22
Speaker 8: got briars and brambles and everything else on that side,
15:25
Speaker 8: and the other side you can hear the waves crashing
15:28
Speaker 8: and you can't see your hand in front of your
15:30
Speaker 8: face out there at night. It would not surprise me
15:34
Speaker 8: at all if there were more he's saying at the beach,
15:37
Speaker 8: Tierney is I'm thinking probably along the sound side over there,
15:42
Speaker 8: where you can quickly deposit the bodies in that location,
15:46
Speaker 8: and nobody's going to be any the wiser out there.
15:49
Speaker 8: I think that probably when he did this, he was
15:52
Speaker 8: hoping for something maybe like tidal changes that are going
15:55
Speaker 8: to sweep the bodies out. It's an easy dump to
15:58
Speaker 8: do this. He can pull them out of this avalanche,
16:00
Speaker 8: which by the way, they had recovered down in South Carolina,
16:05
Speaker 8: and they would just be gone. They would vanish and
16:08
Speaker 8: right right he was to a certain degree, but that
16:10
Speaker 8: yet there they remained. And to mister Goule's comment, those
16:14
Speaker 8: dogs are heroes, you know, because they went out there.
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Speaker 8: They took those dogs out there and they actually found
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Speaker 8: these remains. Is it possible they could go out there
16:22
Speaker 8: and find more. Yeah, I think that there can. Because
16:26
Speaker 8: this is an extensive area, Nancy. It would take so
16:30
Speaker 8: much manpower to get out there and cover every square
16:33
Speaker 8: inch of this area or every square mile. They haven't
16:37
Speaker 8: even scratched the surface yet. And you have to be
16:39
Speaker 8: purpose they look.
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Speaker 2: Scott, look, look, look, look, look, this is video obtained
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Speaker 2: by ABC seven.
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Speaker 1: Look at him. I just want the viewers to know
16:47
Speaker 1: what they're seeing. Joe Scott. There he is, and I
16:50
Speaker 1: know exactly where he is.
16:51
Speaker 2: Nobody needs to tell me he's leaving his office. See
16:54
Speaker 2: he's got his messenger bag over his shoulder. He's leaving
16:58
Speaker 2: his office, which was a stone throw to Penn Station,
17:03
Speaker 2: and there he would catch the pen I've been there
17:08
Speaker 2: many many times. To imagine this demon walking amongst all
17:15
Speaker 2: the ladies catching trains at Penn Station, going straight out
17:19
Speaker 2: to Long Island to commit murders there he goes. He
17:23
Speaker 2: truly is a demon walking among us. That is what
17:27
Speaker 2: the DA said. Sorry to interrupt, Joe Scott, keep going.
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Speaker 2: I just wanted the viewers to know what they were seeing.
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Speaker 8: Yeah, and when I think about who else he could
17:38
Speaker 8: have victimized, how many more are there? I think there's
17:41
Speaker 8: a high probability that there are these bodies. But Nancy,
17:43
Speaker 8: if we could just return to the victims specifically, just
17:47
Speaker 8: for a second, this allocution, let me just put it
17:50
Speaker 8: to you, this way is lacking, okay, because you know
17:53
Speaker 8: what we got out of him, and yeah, I mean
17:56
Speaker 8: it confirmed some things. We got him saying strangulation, strangulation, strangulation, strangulation,
18:03
Speaker 8: but there's no more detail there. I'm very disappointed that
18:08
Speaker 8: his feet were not held to the fire. You know,
18:10
Speaker 8: you had mentioned his torture chamber, which I think that
18:13
Speaker 8: this location was Josh has talked about how these people,
18:17
Speaker 8: these poor victims, were kept alive down there, and yet
18:20
Speaker 8: there's no more detail about what he did. I don't
18:23
Speaker 8: know that people fully appreciate the depth and breadth of
18:27
Speaker 8: how evil he is. He is demonic in my opinion,
18:32
Speaker 8: with what he did to these poor souls, and we
18:35
Speaker 8: will never know that information. All I have to do
18:37
Speaker 8: I look back at the template of the way Kansas
18:40
Speaker 8: handled BTK, and we don't have that here. It's left
18:45
Speaker 8: wanting to say the very least. And I think the
18:48
Speaker 8: families need to understand that. I think the courts need
18:51
Speaker 8: to understand that. But yet here he is. He's going
18:54
Speaker 8: to get three hots and a cot and oh, by
18:57
Speaker 8: the way, yeah, the boys from the FBI are going
18:59
Speaker 8: to come down there, going to sit with him, and
19:01
Speaker 8: they're going to interview him extensively, right, and he is
19:05
Speaker 8: going to hold a level of celebrity. And that is
19:09
Speaker 8: probably one of the most vomit inducing things I can
19:14
Speaker 8: think of relative to this monster Nancy.
19:17
Speaker 4: This defendant walked among us play acting as a normal
19:21
Speaker 4: suburban dad, when in reality, all along he was obsessively
19:25
Speaker 4: targeting innocent women for death. He identified these women, lured
19:31
Speaker 4: them into Nassau County, murdered them, and left their bodies
19:35
Speaker 4: in Suffolk County. He thought that by killing them he
19:38
Speaker 4: could silence them forever and get away with murder. But
19:43
Speaker 4: he was wrong because it was these victims, these women,
19:47
Speaker 4: who refused to stay stylent.
19:52
Speaker 2: In the last days, the Long Island serial killer in court, snared, admitting, yes,
20:00
Speaker 2: he is the Long Island serial killer, but he's not
20:04
Speaker 2: the only one on the hot seat tonight.
20:09
Speaker 1: The question everyone keeps asking is, how could you not know?
20:22
Speaker 3: The Gilgo Ford was one of America's longest serial killer
20:26
Speaker 3: cold cases.
20:28
Speaker 1: After thirteen years, this bombshell.
20:31
Speaker 4: Drops Rex Hueerman, architect, father, husband.
20:37
Speaker 1: Who basically was the person that lived next door.
20:39
Speaker 6: He was a monster, living a double life.
20:43
Speaker 7: One person saying this, one person saying that, but my
20:46
Speaker 7: memory says this.
20:48
Speaker 1: There's so much evidence against you.
20:49
Speaker 8: I don't even believe you, and you're my best friend.
20:52
Speaker 8: Convince me give me something.
20:54
Speaker 1: Did you do it?
20:56
Speaker 8: Rex Huerman insists through his lawyer that he's innocent.
21:00
Speaker 1: Is it possible that you know?
21:02
Speaker 3: Family ever suspected that something was off about this guy?
21:08
Speaker 7: The most mysterious figure is Rex's wife.
21:11
Speaker 2: The investigator says to me, have you heard about the
21:14
Speaker 2: murders on Gilgo Beach. I've heard of them.
21:19
Speaker 8: The idea that the wife didn't know anything was hard
21:22
Speaker 8: to believe.
21:23
Speaker 1: Does everybody really believe everything they hear?
21:31
Speaker 7: Hell?
21:32
Speaker 1: Are you doing?
21:35
Speaker 9: I'm doing great now that I've got you on the phone.
21:41
Speaker 2: How ironic that Asa Elera, the wife the Long Island
21:47
Speaker 2: serial killer, says, does everybody believe everything they hear?
21:51
Speaker 1: Woman?
21:52
Speaker 2: What were you deaf? Dumb and blind? You couldn't see,
21:56
Speaker 2: you couldn't hear, You couldn't speak of the evil happening
21:59
Speaker 2: in your basement often while you're at home? Bs on it,
22:06
Speaker 2: bs on you woman. That's from the Gilgo Beach Killer
22:10
Speaker 2: House of Secrets, their official trailer, the family of Rex
22:15
Speaker 2: Huerman getting a purported one million dollars to participate in
22:23
Speaker 2: that special documentary Blood Money, Blood Money. How do you
22:31
Speaker 2: think that makes the families of these dead women feel?
22:36
Speaker 2: These women kidnapped, tortured, raped, murdered, their bodies sometimes dismembered
22:42
Speaker 2: and disposed of. How do they feel about his wife
22:46
Speaker 2: getting a cool million? It schevs me out totally. I
22:53
Speaker 2: feel filthy and nauseous all at the same time, just
22:57
Speaker 2: watching the trailer, Dave Mack.
23:00
Speaker 1: What Nancy.
23:01
Speaker 5: It's one of those shocking things that just pushes you
23:05
Speaker 5: over the edge that Asa Ellerup is the ex wife
23:09
Speaker 5: of Rex Schureman, being featured and getting paid for this
23:14
Speaker 5: multi part documentary. Now, Nancy, they're adding adding new episodes
23:21
Speaker 5: to this This show, the docu series is called you know,
23:27
Speaker 5: the Gilgo Beach Killer House of Secrets, But now that
23:30
Speaker 5: the secrets are out, Asa Ellerp is going to be
23:33
Speaker 5: adding episodes. But Nancy claiming all along the family knew nothing.
23:39
Speaker 5: In court, Asa Ellerup is sitting behind Rex and she's
23:44
Speaker 5: seemingly shocked. She's sitting on the edge of the seat.
23:48
Speaker 5: She's ripping the seat with her hands. You can see
23:51
Speaker 5: the knuckles, and it's like she's acting like she just
23:53
Speaker 5: can't believe what she's hearing. And there's a suggestion that
23:56
Speaker 5: she didn't believe any of it until he said he
24:00
Speaker 5: But Nancy, I'm with you, like many how can you
24:04
Speaker 5: live in this house? Which, by the way, when you
24:07
Speaker 5: look at the home that Rex Huerman and his family
24:10
Speaker 5: lived in his home from his childhood, it looks like
24:14
Speaker 5: the monster's home compared to the other houses on the street.
24:17
Speaker 5: It looks like evil exists in this house. She's living
24:22
Speaker 5: there with this man. Well, you know decade. You know what,
24:25
Speaker 5: Dave Mack.
24:26
Speaker 2: If it looks like a duck and walks like a
24:28
Speaker 2: duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck.
24:32
Speaker 2: So yes, it is the home of the monsters, including
24:36
Speaker 2: Asa Ellerp and Rex Huerman. This from our friends at
24:39
Speaker 2: ABC seven joining us in addition to Dave Mack, Josh Zeeman,
24:45
Speaker 2: investigative journalist and director of the Killing season, shining in
24:50
Speaker 2: a new light on the Gilgo Beach murders. Tell me
24:53
Speaker 2: about Asa Ellerp in court and what if anything you
24:58
Speaker 2: know about her documentary resere Okay, that's total BS documentary series,
25:05
Speaker 2: my rear end. What can you tell tell us about
25:09
Speaker 2: her show where she's getting a purported million dollars and
25:14
Speaker 2: now additional episodes? I mean, come on, Josh, don't you
25:18
Speaker 2: know she wanted this thing to go to trial, so
25:21
Speaker 2: in between every break where the jurors got a diet
25:24
Speaker 2: coke or a cup of coffee, she could go out
25:26
Speaker 2: and cry and carry on with her histrionics for the
25:30
Speaker 2: cameras to aff for her reality show. Maybe make another
25:33
Speaker 2: million dollars, Josh Zemon.
25:36
Speaker 6: Look, I heard that she wasn't getting paid until the
25:38
Speaker 6: final episode aired. You know, if it is a shock
25:42
Speaker 6: about it, I agree with you completely blood money. I
25:44
Speaker 6: will tell you this. I was in the courtroom and
25:47
Speaker 6: right when Rex admitted to it, I looked back and
25:51
Speaker 6: I saw his daughter, and his daughter was she was crushed.
25:56
Speaker 6: I feel bad for the daughter. I don't feel bad
25:59
Speaker 6: for the wife. Feel bad for the daughter, who I
26:02
Speaker 6: think is crushed that this man that she loved is
26:05
Speaker 6: now a terrifying serial killer.
26:08
Speaker 1: That's one thing I will tell.
26:09
Speaker 2: You, Okay, I get that. What I'm asking about is
26:14
Speaker 2: Asa ellerup and her reality show. I don't care that
26:19
Speaker 2: she may not get all the money till the last
26:23
Speaker 2: episode is from what I can tell, there may not
26:26
Speaker 2: ever be a last episode in our lifetime because they're
26:29
Speaker 2: still digging up bodies.
26:30
Speaker 6: It's great, it's great.
26:32
Speaker 1: Think you know what. Look, I'll tell you something. You
26:35
Speaker 1: know what the lawyer said.
26:36
Speaker 6: The lawyer said when asked about it, Her lawyer said,
26:39
Speaker 6: this is what America wants, and that's the real question.
26:43
Speaker 6: Do we want this or not?
26:44
Speaker 2: My little question is why don't they have the death penalty?
26:47
Speaker 2: But that's a whole other can of worms. Yeah, what
26:49
Speaker 2: America wants is justice, But is that justice him smirking
26:53
Speaker 2: in court? And you and I were talking earlier with
26:57
Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan about him being treated like the little darling,
27:01
Speaker 2: the teacher's pet, the bear behind the cage getting fed
27:07
Speaker 2: Filet Mignon. Nobody wants to get that close to him,
27:10
Speaker 2: but they will feed him with a long handlespoon. That said,
27:14
Speaker 2: he's going to be studied and questioned. The FBI Behavioral
27:19
Speaker 2: Analysis Unit is going to have a field day with him.
27:23
Speaker 2: He may get to travel to them. I mean, I
27:26
Speaker 2: guarantee you, Josh, that there will be a day like
27:30
Speaker 2: Brian Coburger, that he will take part in some sort
27:33
Speaker 2: of documentary and he won't make any money, but there
27:37
Speaker 2: will be a way for money to be funneled to him,
27:41
Speaker 2: through his wife, through his family. I don't know how,
27:44
Speaker 2: but he will find a way. He lived quite the
27:47
Speaker 2: dual life.
27:48
Speaker 1: Did he not look?
27:50
Speaker 6: This was a guy who created these two separate personas,
27:54
Speaker 6: that of a father, a commuter working in New York
27:57
Speaker 6: City and that of a monster. And I think that
28:00
Speaker 6: is really important to them to create these dual personalities.
28:03
Speaker 6: One allowing him to work on the other who was
28:06
Speaker 6: a hero to his family, theoretically so that he could
28:09
Speaker 6: kill at night. He's terrifying.
28:11
Speaker 2: This is lay interview with Rex Huerman regarding the Department
28:17
Speaker 2: of Buildings. He's a consultant with them at the time.
28:19
Speaker 2: From Bonds Your Realty on YouTube, Josh, listen to.
28:23
Speaker 1: This brace yourself. You know this trick.
28:27
Speaker 2: Peacock insists that the family is not getting paid for participation,
28:32
Speaker 2: not one red pinning, but they are paying them licensing fees.
28:36
Speaker 2: What a ton of crap wait, correction, what a ton
28:42
Speaker 2: of steinking.
28:45
Speaker 1: Steaming crap paid for a licensing fee.
28:50
Speaker 2: That means, look, we can't say we're paying you for
28:54
Speaker 2: your interviews and for all of your bs that you're
28:57
Speaker 2: feeding us with a silver spoon and expecting us to swallow.
29:00
Speaker 1: But we will pay you the million dollars for those pictures.
29:04
Speaker 1: That's BS.
29:06
Speaker 2: That gives them a way to say we're not paying
29:08
Speaker 2: for these interviews, but they are. They're paying for the pictures.
29:13
Speaker 2: Explain that whole bogus line.
29:16
Speaker 6: It's something we do all the time in documentary filmmaking.
29:19
Speaker 6: We can't pay them, you know, son of Sam laws
29:21
Speaker 6: things like that, So we say, look, we'll pay you
29:24
Speaker 6: for exclusive pictures, video access. So basically we're getting a
29:29
Speaker 6: million dollars for a picture that she's handing over. It's yeah,
29:32
Speaker 6: it's a way that we get around it so that
29:35
Speaker 6: we don't get son of Sam laws and it's it's gross,
29:37
Speaker 6: And you're absolutely right.
29:41
Speaker 2: You know, Karen Stark joining me forensic psychologists. She's a
29:44
Speaker 2: renowned TV and radio trauma expert consultant. She's at Karenstark
29:50
Speaker 2: dot com. That's Karen with to see Karen. Just watching
29:54
Speaker 2: that trailer made me feel nauseous, I mean, and then
30:01
Speaker 2: her to ask the question, the rhetorical question to.
30:04
Speaker 1: People believe everything they hear? Woman, You're the one.
30:08
Speaker 2: That plugged your ears, closed your eyes, and taped over
30:14
Speaker 2: your mouth while your husband was raping and murdering people
30:18
Speaker 2: in your basement.
30:21
Speaker 9: Please, And to think that with that kind of an explanation,
30:26
Speaker 9: do you believe everything? That she's actually getting paid now
30:31
Speaker 9: that she has so called awareness and continuing to make
30:35
Speaker 9: that documentary. But what I wanted to say about her
30:39
Speaker 9: and about this ex wife and Syria killer is in general,
30:43
Speaker 9: is that they tend to pick women like this. They
30:47
Speaker 9: pick women who they know will ignore red flags, will
30:52
Speaker 9: not pay attention to all the little details that everyone
30:56
Speaker 9: else we know would pay attention to that basement, the
31:00
Speaker 9: horrors that were there, all the little suspicions. So I
31:04
Speaker 9: think that that's an important thing to notice. That this
31:08
Speaker 9: really fits a pattern of what serial killers do they
31:12
Speaker 9: want this kind of woman.
31:14
Speaker 2: Hey, Karen, Karen, Karen, you know my husband David very well, Okay,
31:20
Speaker 2: I do. Occasionally he will break down and make the
31:23
Speaker 2: bed up in the morning. And we went to go
31:27
Speaker 2: see Vango's sunflower exhibit. Can go with me on this.
31:30
Speaker 2: I'm going somewhere and there's a pillow of a sunflower
31:34
Speaker 2: from a Vango painting, and unless you really look at it,
31:38
Speaker 2: you can't tell which way is what. But I can
31:42
Speaker 2: tell because the vase is at the bottom and there's
31:44
Speaker 2: a little tag on the right side of the pillow.
31:48
Speaker 2: When I walked through going back and forth doing laundry
31:51
Speaker 2: or whatever I'm doing, I noticed that the pillow is
31:54
Speaker 2: upside down, and I fix it. Okay, So if I
31:59
Speaker 2: notice the van Goo pillow is upside down, I'm grateful
32:04
Speaker 2: he made the bet up.
32:05
Speaker 1: But be I fix it, you will tell me all.
32:09
Speaker 2: Never notice anything in the basement where women were tripped, rape, tortured,
32:14
Speaker 2: and murdered.
32:16
Speaker 9: No way, I'm not saying she didn't notice it, Nancy.
32:20
Speaker 9: The important thing that I'm pointing out is that she's
32:24
Speaker 9: the kind of person who would ignore what she notices,
32:28
Speaker 9: that she's able to find a way inside of her
32:31
Speaker 9: mind to absolutely put it aside and say, in some
32:36
Speaker 9: way without saying to you, but to herself, I'm not
32:40
Speaker 9: going to pay attention to this in order to keep
32:43
Speaker 9: the life that she has. And there's no doubt in
32:47
Speaker 9: my mind, just like you, that there were hints, there
32:51
Speaker 9: were red flags all the time. But this is somebody
32:54
Speaker 9: who would not pay attention to them. And that happens
32:57
Speaker 9: a lot with the kind of women that Syriaillers pick.
33:01
Speaker 9: Think Ted Bundy, Think Dennis Raider. They pick women who
33:06
Speaker 9: live with them and somehow can't see what everyone else
33:10
Speaker 9: can see. In addition to which look at their personalities,
33:15
Speaker 9: they are able to switch. It's like turning on a light, right.
33:19
Speaker 9: They could switch between the life that they're living with
33:22
Speaker 9: their family, with the community and turn into these demonic
33:27
Speaker 9: killers that torture and rape. They are able to do that.
33:32
Speaker 9: People can't do that, but serial killers can't.
33:36
Speaker 10: The fourth witness, she was a sex worker for many years.
33:40
Speaker 10: She said that she would serve as rectiomen over twenty times,
33:44
Speaker 10: and that he would He was a serial user of
33:48
Speaker 10: sex workers. He would sometimes have him come two at
33:50
Speaker 10: a time to his house and his wife was home upstairs,
33:55
Speaker 10: and in one instance got very angry at one of
33:58
Speaker 10: the sex workers because the wife believed that the worker
34:02
Speaker 10: had stolen an iron from you know, for ironing clothes,
34:05
Speaker 10: and had had it in the car with the driver.
34:08
Speaker 10: So the driver had to get out, everybody had to
34:10
Speaker 10: search the car. There was no iron, but the wife
34:13
Speaker 10: knew about it and knew about obviously what was going
34:16
Speaker 10: on in order for that to happen.
34:20
Speaker 8: You know, they're saying specifically that there's the evidence of
34:23
Speaker 8: torture that's different than post mortal mutilation, Nancy.
34:27
Speaker 9: And it's clear how much he was obsessed with his
34:30
Speaker 9: own doing what he did following the Brutolph Mars.
34:35
Speaker 2: He can never erase anything on your computer. Snared in court,
34:42
Speaker 2: Long Island serial killer Rex Hureman pleads guilty to multiple murders.
34:47
Speaker 2: But I'm not done with you yet, Asa Eller up
34:51
Speaker 2: the wife a million dollars at least for a reality
34:55
Speaker 2: show and now a lawsuit.
34:58
Speaker 1: Dave matt who is sue doing.
35:00
Speaker 5: Elerop Benjamin Torres. He is the thirty two year old
35:06
Speaker 5: son of victim Valerie Mack. He is naming Rex Hureman obviously,
35:11
Speaker 5: but in this million dollar lawsuit he names Asa Elera
35:16
Speaker 5: and daughter Victoria Huerman as defendants. Torres alleges that he
35:21
Speaker 5: was deprived of his mother's care and protection, claims Mack
35:25
Speaker 5: was tortured before her death, and the suit seeks damages
35:29
Speaker 5: and targets the prophets allegedly earned by Elerap and Victoria
35:33
Speaker 5: Huerman from the Peacock documentary that we've been talking about.
35:37
Speaker 5: I'm saying that human's life being shown like this is
35:43
Speaker 5: a callous disregard to the victims' families.
35:47
Speaker 2: You know, I'm just imagining what the victims' families have
35:51
Speaker 2: gone through. They went for years thinking maybe their mothers
35:57
Speaker 2: just left them, abandoned them. How would you like to
36:01
Speaker 2: grow up thinking that mom just left. I don't know
36:04
Speaker 2: where she is. She didn't love me enough to stay
36:07
Speaker 2: with me or even stay in touch with me. I
36:10
Speaker 2: grew up without a mother. And then they find out
36:13
Speaker 2: for all those years that they blamed their mom, that
36:16
Speaker 2: their mom had been tortured and raped and murdered, and
36:22
Speaker 2: their remains buried on a desolate beach. Just growing up
36:29
Speaker 2: in itself has all sorts of trauma and issues pile
36:33
Speaker 2: that on top. I don't know how these people even
36:35
Speaker 2: get out of bed in the morning. To Joseph Scott
36:39
Speaker 2: Morgan explain what was done to these victims? And you
36:47
Speaker 2: know what, when we show their faces, Joe Scott, it's
36:50
Speaker 2: easy to go, oh, there's a long Island serial killer victims.
36:54
Speaker 1: I would have to make.
36:56
Speaker 2: Jurrrs and I didn't like it any more than they did.
37:00
Speaker 2: Make them confront what really happened to these ladies, what
37:07
Speaker 2: they endured before their deaths.
37:11
Speaker 1: What happened to them, Joe Scott, the worst.
37:15
Speaker 8: Possible torture that you can imagine. Can we reflect back
37:19
Speaker 8: just for a second to think about this list. Do
37:22
Speaker 8: you remember the list, Nancy, This kind of assignment of task.
37:28
Speaker 1: That he had created.
37:29
Speaker 8: Nancy. There's one part in this list that he had
37:33
Speaker 8: created where it says, by the bye, don't forget to
37:38
Speaker 8: remove the hands and the head and to wash the bodies.
37:42
Speaker 8: Just let's just meditate on that, just for a second.
37:46
Speaker 8: Of how dark this whole thing is, and if it
37:49
Speaker 8: happened once, it happened multiple times. And that's in death.
37:56
Speaker 8: Lord only knows what had happened in life, down in
38:01
Speaker 8: that dark, dark space as he is torturing these poor victims.
38:08
Speaker 8: And here's the real shame. Just like Ted Bundy, we
38:13
Speaker 8: will hear his name over and over and over and
38:18
Speaker 8: over again. Guess what, guess what? Uh. There are very
38:22
Speaker 8: few people that can go down the list of Ted
38:24
Speaker 8: Bundy's victims and name them. I submit to you that
38:29
Speaker 8: the names of these victims will be forgotten. And I
38:32
Speaker 8: hate to say that it's very callous, but his name
38:35
Speaker 8: will trump everything else. He'll be mentioned over and over
38:38
Speaker 8: and over again, and people need to remember this. This
38:41
Speaker 8: is why, when I think about the allocution, why he
38:45
Speaker 8: should be compelled to talk about what these are individuals.
38:49
Speaker 8: They had lives, they had families, and the torture that
38:52
Speaker 8: they were subjected to is stuff that you can't even
38:55
Speaker 8: imagine in your wildest dreams. It's stuff that he think
39:00
Speaker 8: about war crimes. People that commit war crimes didn't do
39:02
Speaker 8: stuff like this. You know one thing that I reflectively
39:07
Speaker 8: think back to in this list, there's a one point
39:10
Speaker 8: where he actually uses the term hard point, and that
39:13
Speaker 8: really stuck with me. And the hard point was a
39:16
Speaker 8: location commonly where you secure something like, for instance, an
39:22
Speaker 8: eye an eye hook in the ceiling, where you can
39:25
Speaker 8: tie somebody up, you can hang them almost like a
39:28
Speaker 8: piece of beef. Or if you're feel dressing a deer
39:31
Speaker 8: and talking about the context of that, you know, what's
39:34
Speaker 8: your purpose for doing that? Rex? You know, why would
39:37
Speaker 8: you need a hard point. I know he's an architect.
39:39
Speaker 8: He probably uses that term from the descriptor of building
39:43
Speaker 8: something out, but that's not what he used that for, Nancy.
39:47
Speaker 8: He used that to secure these individuals so he could
39:50
Speaker 8: work out these sick fantasies. And you know, they're paying
39:54
Speaker 8: the price. They're paying the price to satiate these evil
39:57
Speaker 8: desires that he has. They are not going to be memorialized.
40:02
Speaker 8: I am truly hoping. I am so glad you brought
40:05
Speaker 8: up this gentleman who is suing, because maybe there will
40:09
Speaker 8: be relief in civil court where they will have to
40:12
Speaker 8: talk about this stuff. They will have to talk about
40:15
Speaker 8: what happened in her domicile that she was living in
40:19
Speaker 8: with her kids. This was all going on under her nose.
40:23
Speaker 8: In that basement, she inhabited the space. Let's hear it,
40:26
Speaker 8: you know, let the hide come with the hair, and
40:29
Speaker 8: let's hear what they have to say about this and
40:31
Speaker 8: what went on in that house. You're not gonna get
40:33
Speaker 8: in civil court, I mean in criminal court, because he's
40:36
Speaker 8: not gonna be forced tested by at this point. But
40:38
Speaker 8: in the civil court, maybe these families will get some
40:41
Speaker 8: relief and they will be able to see what he
40:44
Speaker 8: had done, and you can parade all of the experts
40:48
Speaker 8: across the stand. In civil court, you can get transcripts,
40:50
Speaker 8: you can do depositions, and they're gonna talk about it,
40:53
Speaker 8: and I hope, I hope they go forward with it.
40:55
Speaker 8: I hope every family member out there that suffered at
40:58
Speaker 8: his hands will file suit and we're going to find
41:02
Speaker 8: out what actually happened down there in that basement.
41:05
Speaker 2: And recall, Joe Scott that Asa Elerp's hair was actually
41:09
Speaker 2: found on Valerie Max's body, which opens up a whole
41:13
Speaker 2: nother cannon worms. I'd like to go back to what
41:17
Speaker 2: the control room was showing while you were talking, Joe Scott.
41:21
Speaker 2: I guess in your world, as do I. I make
41:24
Speaker 2: lists all the time, so I can't forget what all
41:27
Speaker 2: I have to do. Don't hunt too long in one
41:31
Speaker 2: area because you'll be seen. Don't charge for your gas,
41:36
Speaker 2: check for video cameras in the pickup area. The next
41:39
Speaker 2: time you kidnap your victim, hit the victim harder, make
41:46
Speaker 2: it easier to quote take them down a hit to
41:49
Speaker 2: the face or the neck next time, which means he
41:52
Speaker 2: didn't hit the victim in the right place for him
41:54
Speaker 2: the first time, and she fought back. You need more
41:57
Speaker 2: sleep before the murders. You need to control the noise
42:01
Speaker 2: and more quote playtime. In other words, torture hang drop
42:06
Speaker 2: claws from the ceiling with pushpins, not tape, because the
42:11
Speaker 2: drop claws become loose during the rapes and the torture.
42:17
Speaker 2: Use heavy rope for the neck light rope broke under
42:21
Speaker 2: the stress of being tightened. Now that sun and all
42:26
Speaker 2: the victims' families have to think about how tightly ropes
42:31
Speaker 2: were cinched around their mother's neck. Props, toys, wood items,
42:37
Speaker 2: wood items for what, destroy books, computer files, anything that
42:44
Speaker 2: touched t one. I guess the victim dispose of plastic bags,
42:53
Speaker 2: remove marks from the torture. What does that mean when
42:57
Speaker 2: he cut out portions of their skin head and hands.
43:02
Speaker 8: Yeah, you're talking about excision there, Nancy. Excision is say,
43:06
Speaker 8: for instance, you have a sharp instrument and you have
43:09
Speaker 8: an insult to the skin, for instance, you have a mark,
43:12
Speaker 8: an abrasion, a contusion, whatever it is. He's talking about
43:16
Speaker 8: excizing that area, actually cutting out.
43:19
Speaker 2: Cutting and act cutting out of the tattoo from the skin.
43:24
Speaker 1: That's what Joe Scott is saying.
43:25
Speaker 2: And he's right now here are his problems to the
43:28
Speaker 2: panel DNA that's a problem. Tire marks for him, that's
43:31
Speaker 2: a problem. Bloodstains, fingerprints, plastic bag. He had cat.
43:36
Speaker 1: Litter to get rid of the smell.
43:41
Speaker 2: This guy, look at this, all the supplies Booti's acid lie,
43:48
Speaker 2: a police scanner, cutting tools here in nants burn can
43:53
Speaker 2: drain cleaner tarps, electric clips, large electric clips for what
44:02
Speaker 2: Joe Scott to put on the victims' bodies and electrocute
44:06
Speaker 2: them as torture.
44:07
Speaker 1: Why would he need electric clips?
44:10
Speaker 8: Yeah, to send voltage to their bodies, because he's he
44:13
Speaker 8: is experiencing this. This is he wants to see the pain.
44:17
Speaker 8: He wants to see the resistance, he wants to see
44:20
Speaker 8: their reaction to the terror that he's inflicting upon them. Okay,
44:24
Speaker 8: they know that something horrible is coming, that horror being
44:28
Speaker 8: their end. But what's happening before they get to that death,
44:33
Speaker 8: which probably at the end of the day many of
44:36
Speaker 8: them were probably begging for Nancy at that point. I
44:40
Speaker 8: think the big question is we know these eight victims
44:44
Speaker 8: that he has admitted to. I want to know how
44:47
Speaker 8: many more women were brought down there and subjected to
44:50
Speaker 8: the same torture in this environment. You know, Lord only knows,
44:56
Speaker 8: you know. One of the things I think about is
44:59
Speaker 8: the DNA recover down there in that area. I really
45:02
Speaker 8: wonder how many unknown bits of DNA may have been recovered,
45:06
Speaker 8: what was opportunity, how much had it degraded. There's so
45:09
Speaker 8: many unanswered quis.
45:17
Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Gray. I noticed on the list
45:26
Speaker 2: to Josh Zeeman joining US director of The Killing Season,
45:31
Speaker 2: an entire docuseriies that profiled and shed light on the
45:36
Speaker 2: Long Island serial killings. I noticed on his list he
45:40
Speaker 2: wanted more photo film his words, so obviously he took
45:44
Speaker 2: pictures during the torture or after.
45:50
Speaker 6: In fact, Nancy, there are believed to be one hundred
45:53
Speaker 6: thousand pictures that the district Attorney has had to go
45:57
Speaker 6: through that the FBI helped even organized one hundred thousand.
46:02
Speaker 6: What's amazing is this guy took all these precautions to
46:06
Speaker 6: try not to get caught. Yet still this was all
46:09
Speaker 6: sitting on his computer. This document, this planning document, it's
46:12
Speaker 6: called the HK planning document, Hunt and Kill planning document.
46:16
Speaker 6: It was sitting in this edge, in this bites of
46:19
Speaker 6: his computer that he could not erase. So despite all
46:22
Speaker 6: these things that he had done, it was still there,
46:26
Speaker 6: and thank god they were able to get this. He
46:29
Speaker 6: was actually you talk about this house looking so ramshackle.
46:33
Speaker 1: He's a hoarder.
46:34
Speaker 6: He hoarded all these old items, old palm pilots. There
46:37
Speaker 6: were palm pilots that they found that basically gave the
46:40
Speaker 6: dates of what he was doing and going that actually
46:44
Speaker 6: mentioned his wife being away at times and he would
46:47
Speaker 6: go and.
46:48
Speaker 1: Find a victim.
46:48
Speaker 6: So he hoarded everything, including all these pieces of evidence.
46:54
Speaker 6: He also had the most shocking thing is he had
46:57
Speaker 6: newspaper articles, thirty year old news paper articles in his bedroom,
47:02
Speaker 6: in his office, in his basement of all his crimes.
47:05
Speaker 6: So for some guy who's such an architect and such
47:08
Speaker 6: a great planner, he still kept all these mementos that
47:12
Speaker 6: basically nailed them to a wall for these killings.
47:15
Speaker 2: To Mike Gould, special guest, former Nassau County lieutenant, founding
47:20
Speaker 2: member of the NYPD K nine unit, led multiple investigations
47:26
Speaker 2: into serial killers, including this case. Mike, after all your work,
47:32
Speaker 2: all your time, literally, blood, sweat and tears, how does
47:36
Speaker 2: it make you feel that this guy, he might be
47:40
Speaker 2: sentenced consecutively, one after the next, half the next, but
47:43
Speaker 2: bottom line, he gets one life sentence for everything he did.
47:50
Speaker 7: Yeah, Nancy, it's sickening. This is a true animal monster,
47:53
Speaker 7: whatever you want to call it. But what's most disturbing.
47:55
Speaker 7: He could be at your next dinner party. He was
47:57
Speaker 7: an architect, He's very well respected in the community. You
48:01
Speaker 7: know what I think about. As I said, I patrolled
48:03
Speaker 7: this Areos Parkway from nineteen ninety two to nineteen ninety
48:07
Speaker 7: nine when frankly these bodies were disposed of. But here's
48:11
Speaker 7: the sad reality. I could have pulled him over. He
48:15
Speaker 7: has a license registration and he could have had a
48:18
Speaker 7: body in his trunk. He's a duck hunter and he's
48:20
Speaker 7: a member of the community. I would have probably let
48:23
Speaker 7: him go. There would be no reason for me to
48:25
Speaker 7: suspect because sociopaths are very manipulative. As I said, he
48:30
Speaker 7: could be He's just somebody's next door neighbor. He could
48:32
Speaker 7: be at So that's what's the most troubling to me,
48:36
Speaker 7: is you never know the evil at lurks in anybody's mind. Frankly, So, yeah,
48:41
Speaker 7: I could have stopped him, checked his license registration. I
48:44
Speaker 7: could have said, what are you doing down here at
48:46
Speaker 7: two o'clock in the morning. You get said, I'm going
48:48
Speaker 7: duck hunting. I'm doing this, And I would have let
48:50
Speaker 7: him go. And that's the facts of life. And there
48:52
Speaker 7: could have been a mutilated body in his trunk.
48:55
Speaker 2: Mike gild a special guest tonight. He worked the long
48:59
Speaker 2: hol serial killer case. Mike, what you said is chilling, eerie,
49:08
Speaker 2: and I know it to be true. I remember one
49:11
Speaker 2: serial killer I prosecuted was a chef and everybody loved him.
49:17
Speaker 2: It was a serial killer. So what you're saying, it's
49:21
Speaker 2: and I would not in front of the jury. I
49:23
Speaker 2: would look over at him and just try to take
49:26
Speaker 2: it in. And it's very hard to evaluate, to understand,
49:36
Speaker 2: to reconcile that that guy sitting there in a gorgeous suit,
49:41
Speaker 2: flanked by lawyers.
49:44
Speaker 1: Is a cold blooded killer.
49:47
Speaker 2: And when I think of what Josh Zieman just said
49:50
Speaker 2: about over one hundred thousand photos of these dead.
49:57
Speaker 1: Women during torture, during rapes.
50:03
Speaker 2: And their families have to live with that the rest
50:05
Speaker 2: of their lives. I mean, I feel, I don't know,
50:09
Speaker 2: robbed by this guilty plate, and I don't know why.
50:15
Speaker 11: Yes, so this is a heinous crime. We can't you
50:17
Speaker 11: can't fathom insanity. How can a normal functioning person, As
50:22
Speaker 11: I said, this could be anyone. Nobody's immune to this.
50:26
Speaker 7: This could be a priest, that could be any member
50:28
Speaker 7: of your community, a family member. They're devious and they
50:33
Speaker 7: live double lives. If you look at all his notes,
50:35
Speaker 7: those are the notes of an architecture.
50:37
Speaker 10: Right.
50:38
Speaker 7: Architects are very meticulous and they have to learn from
50:40
Speaker 7: their last architectural drawings. So when you look at that,
50:45
Speaker 7: this is a checklist police scanners. He had probably thought
50:49
Speaker 7: about how what he was going to say if somebody
50:52
Speaker 7: like myself pulled him over in the middle of the
50:53
Speaker 7: night on Ocean Park, where I'm sure he had a
50:56
Speaker 7: very well reasoned excuse. So this is this is a
51:00
Speaker 7: sadistic maniac and we can scratch our head from now
51:03
Speaker 7: to eternity trying to figure out what how a sociopath thinks,
51:08
Speaker 7: how they get some side of type of enjoyment from
51:10
Speaker 7: mutilating people. It's not on our radar screen. It's certainly
51:13
Speaker 7: not on my radar screen. So yeah, I Fortunately for me,
51:17
Speaker 7: I've been doing this stuff so long, I have a
51:19
Speaker 7: way of just isolating those thoughts and the emotions. I'm
51:25
Speaker 7: kind of emotionally detached from a lot of this, So
51:28
Speaker 7: a lot of it I frankly don't even listen to
51:30
Speaker 7: as I just kind of avoid it, stick with the
51:33
Speaker 7: facts of the case. But yeah, he's a monster, period.
51:38
Speaker 2: Karen Stark, what advice, what words of consolation or hope
51:45
Speaker 2: can you give the victims families?
51:50
Speaker 9: Well, the best you could do in a case like this, Nancy,
51:52
Speaker 9: is to actually talk to them, advise them to get help,
51:57
Speaker 9: to keep talking it out, because really makes a difference.
52:01
Speaker 9: And it's really hard because they're aware of the torture.
52:06
Speaker 9: They just like you, right, they can't fathom it, and
52:09
Speaker 9: they could put themselves in the place of the victim,
52:12
Speaker 9: which is terrible to imagine what they went through. And
52:16
Speaker 9: here he does this because he gets a charge out
52:20
Speaker 9: of it. That smirk is showing you how much he
52:24
Speaker 9: enjoys this. And there is no doubt in my mind
52:28
Speaker 9: that he pleaded guilty because he didn't want to go
52:31
Speaker 9: over the details. He has very specific details that he
52:36
Speaker 9: wants to keep to himself and maybe share with the
52:39
Speaker 9: FBI so he can get the fame that he's been
52:42
Speaker 9: looking for. But this is a monster, and so what
52:47
Speaker 9: do you say to the family is except be with
52:50
Speaker 9: each other, keep talking about it. You must go on
52:54
Speaker 9: with your lives for the sake of the victims.
52:58
Speaker 2: It's not over yet, and we wait as justice unfolds.
53:05
Speaker 2: Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend.
53:14
Speaker 3: Mm hmm