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A Promise to Lews Therin - The Gathering Storm chapters 31 - EP529 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Times podcast. We're doing a
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: single chapter today. God, you're like, I gotta find out.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's two po vs that kind of both
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: have a lot to talk about in them, so it's
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: almost going to be like a double hudder, Like really, but.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we were talking about the density problem i'll call
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: it with Sanderson, where podcasting through it feels very different
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: because there's just each section seems to have a singular
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: point and that's usually as we go through we point
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: that out, and the subtlety isn't necessarily there. The layer
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: is not necessarily there. But this chapter feels a lot
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: more layery than some of his other chapters, which makes
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: me think either He's doing a better job of aping
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Jordan's style or Jordan had a lot more input into
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: this chapter, which it's Codswayne rand chapter, which makes me
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: think this is one of the ones that Jordan may
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: have like mostly written, and it's early on in these books,
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Like I could see this being a chapter Jordan had
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: written in the mostly written in the process of creating
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: an outline for Memory of Light or starting to write
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Memory of Light back when he was a little bit better.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this chapter to me is one of those ones
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: where it feels like both authors are really present in
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: the scene, like you can you can hear them both.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: They're both there. Like Jordan wrote a lot of this,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Sanderson did a lot of work to stitch it together.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: And there's more to talk about than just one point
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: this time. There's layers of stuff happening here that are
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: unique to the last several chapters. Right, we've been really
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: in some deep like peer Sanderson stuff for a bit,
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: like with hind Tap. This is this is getting back
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: into some more Jordanian stuff, which is fun.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: But you know, God Swayne, Yeah, I mean.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: We are also yeah in Kat Swayne and Darth Ran.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: So fun is definitely a relative term, but it should
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: be denser. And that's why we're doing one chapter today.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: I really don't understand the title of this chapter A
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: promise to lose there and.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: Oh it's the very end. Oh okay, it's when it's
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: when Rand promises Lewis Farren that they can die and
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: they're both looking forward to it.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: I always am trying to associate it with the voice
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: of whoever starts the chapter in the audiobook, which is
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: not always correct. Sometimes sometimes the title comes from a
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: later POV. So even though the title is said in
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Kate Redding's voice, it's it's a Michael Kramer section that
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: that promise is made in I'm a Smart Person, be
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: I'm a smart person. There's a lot of reading comprehension.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: So sometimes there's an opening act POV. Sometimes there's a
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: closer you know, it just depends on where the action is.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: In this case, cod Swain is definitely opening up for
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: the Rand act.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, Kat Swayin at best can be an opener.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: At best. She can never be the main act.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Almost No, I was gonna say during the cleansing she
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: almost had main act energy except Rand was you know,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: cleansing the source, which kind of was the whole big thing.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it's like she was the head of the
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: chorus who had a really big role to play in
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: that scene. Right, The chorus actually had a much bigger
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: role than usual. So the head of the chorus is
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: nearly a real character, nearly.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Nearly emphasis on nearly. And here she gets her one
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: good idea occurs in this chapter.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and she does some really cool isidiye stuff. We
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: see her really leaning on her nifty isidize skills with
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: like I have spent years cultivating relationships that I can
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: rely on on knowing what those tools are very easily
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: in a time of need. Like, we get to see
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: the fact that she's spent decades preparing to just have
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: this guy here for her in this moment, and I
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: think that's a really cool iside. I think just that
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: ability to think in terms of that far ahead. So
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: it's you know, she's eyes to dying a whole lot here,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: and then Rand is just ominous. He's just super ominous.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: Rand just is ominous. That's like what he does.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, I mean he's he's the being dark and
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: bad and unbalancing the pattern, I think is the term
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: that you know, conspain sort of discovers he's creating. No
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: longer is he the balance the pattern or some good
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: things and some bad things. He's just making the chance
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: more extreme. He's actually putting a finger on the bad
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: side of things now since he's touched the dark.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Power, right, the truth now, she's right.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: True power from the hmm, don't crucify me.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, right, And this is the part where he's like, yeah,
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: if Land dies in this way at this time, that
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: would be convenient and that's fine, and that motivates and
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: I need to do a lot. She's really goaded into
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: more desperate action because of this attitude on Rand's part,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: But it really is just him being profoundly ominous at
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: everyone who wants to help.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: You know what term i'd use, He's forsaken Rand. He's
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: touching the Dark One. Yeah, he's acting like a forsaken
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: he's just against the Dark One, but he's still acting
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: like a.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Forsaken very arid hole like in that way.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, using the tactics of the Dark One against them.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, saying I can do.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: It like we've gone from dark Rand and just forsaken Rand.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he just happens to be forsaken for the good guys.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: But it feels like that could switch on a dime,
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: and that's pretty scary And no wonder Kat Swayn doesn't
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: want him walking up to the Dark One in forsaken mode. Right,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: That's that's too much.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: And I should say the the icon is the star
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: and moons for Codswayin. So you've got often when you
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: have a chapter icon for one POV, you get a
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: title for the other POV.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Oh, I've never noticed that, really.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: I think so I will. You know, I'm sure I
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: haven't done the research on that to make sure, but
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: that it does occur to me that we've seen some
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: of those where I'm like, oh yeah, and then the
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: chapter icon plies to one and the title will applied
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: to something else in the chapter.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: That would make sense. But I've never noticed that because
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: I've never paid that kind of attention. Someone chart it out,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: make us freshy all right, Well, I guess I should
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: probably read us in huh yeah, chapter thirty one A
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: promise to lose therein and our symbol is kat Swayin's
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: hair ornaments the moon and stars. Kat Swayn kept her
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: cloak on hood up, despite the mugginess that strained her
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: to ignore the heat. She dared not lower the hood
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: or remove the cloak. Al Thor's words had been specific.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: If you saw her face, she would be executed. She
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: wouldn't risk her life to prevent a few hours of discomfort.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Even if she thought al Thor was safely back in
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: his newly appropriated mansion. The boy often appeared where he
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: wasn't expected or wanted. She wasn't about to let him
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: exile her. Of course, the more power a man held,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: the more he likely was to be an idiot with it.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: Give a man one cow, and he'd care for it
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: with concern, using its milk to feed his family. Give
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: a man ten cows, and he was likely to think
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: himself rich. Then let all ten starve for lack of attention.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Just cut it there. She just kind of goes on
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: for a long time describing the city and how irritated
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: she is about things. It's a very good world to detail,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: but I don't know how much I need to read
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: to give you a sense of how cranky she is.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: The one thing I'll talk about is her thought that
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: promised food brings more hungry people who then are become
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: drains on society, which I feel like I want to
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: talk to you about that because so many people in
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: Portland say that's what's going on here. Yeah, and I
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: kind of, I don't know. I have the thought that
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: really it's the other way around. It's that we have
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: a place where you can survive the winter and the
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: summer outdoors, which brings lots of people here, and then
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: you have to take care of them so you don't
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: have people dying on your streets.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the temperate climate has a lot to do with it.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: In the Pacific Northwest, the I five corridor, there's a
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: lot of surfaces for people, and exposure is a much
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: less severe threat than in many other places. And those
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: two things together are a constructive wave that leads to
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: a very high rate of people who are unhoused going there.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: And it's you know, not great because the society that's
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: producing those conditions is like not doing a great job
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: of preventing that from happening in the first place. But yeah,
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: there has a lot to do with it. And the city.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: We were describing this city as being very Portland like,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: so there could be a bit of that going on here.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: But also it's much more like immediate with the shan
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: shan and white cloaks and dragons sworn and other things
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: that don't have direct analogies in our world, certainly not
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: in the Portland area.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: There's not We're not exactly a war torn society right now. Yes,
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: all those Yeah, it's gonna say, although sometimes it feels
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: like it's coming. God anyway, I don't want to talk
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: about American politics right now.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: No, we're not going to do about that muggy and
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: oppressive heat though I think we should address. I would
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: not describe Portland in the summer as muggy and oppressive.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: But it's not a dry heat either, Yeah, I yeah,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: because I've been places where it's muggy and Portland is
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: not muggy. I have been to Iowa in June, like,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: I've only been there briefly, but I I know what
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: true mugginess is and I haven't even I went to
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Houston one time. I haven't even been to the real South.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: I lived in Houston for three years.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know that the mugginess here is nothing even
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: of the Midwest, much less the true South.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: Spent three years in Mississippi do as a very young child.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: And you know, our antipotal friend religion, who does so
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: much of our art, is saying ninety five percent humidity
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: for the last month down there. And it's been summer
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: obviously because antipodal, and we only just rolled into spring
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: up here in the north. But I can't, I could not.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: I would literally die. I would turn into a puddle
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: of misery and I would flow out the drain.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Well, and people who are outside do die. I mean,
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: you get a week of one hundred and one hundred
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: that's wet bowl point right, you cannot cool down below
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: your body temperature anymore. You die if you can't get
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: someplace cool. Yeah, Like, places like Texas Houston are literally
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: uninhabitable year round without air conditioning. You know, whether you're
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: creating that with some sort of water flow or something
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: like that, or you know, are modern equivalent right, Like,
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: it's crazy to me when I think about how many
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: people live in areas of this country that are literally
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: uninhabitable without air.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Conditioning, or Australia.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Sorry, the world, the world that are literally uninhabitable without
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: air conditioning.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I cannot, I cannot. I do not do
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: well with heat, and I really don't like air conditioning,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: so I need to live somewhere that's temperate. So the
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest is where I will be be staying.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: No, I mean good, good thing. The forecast is for
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: cooler weather in the future. Right.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: I have seen maps that suggest this part of the
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: world is going to get fucked slower than a lot
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: of other places, which means the twofold problem. Right, It's
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: gonna be not as bad here, which means lots of
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: people will come here as other places get worse.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: So why do you think I'm desperate to buy a
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: home or was desperate to buy something. M I think
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: prices are just going up.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: But anyway, I will say though, if anyone is dealing
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: with serious heat issues, wear some cotton. Get that cotton wet,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: blow a fan on yourself. Use the terrifying hypothermic powers
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: of cotton to your advantage. You will cool down. It
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: will kill you in the winter, but it can save
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: you in the summer.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: In the winter, you want wool exactly.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: In the winter, wearing cotton is suicidal.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: But the wool will kind of get wet and can
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: still keep you warm, which is the magical property of wool.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: You'll be miserably wet, but used to be warm.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah right, But cotton will wick your body heat away
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: if it is wet. So in the summer, if you
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: are struggling to keep your body temperature down, use that
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: to your advantage. You can do that without needing a
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: lot of air conditioning technology, just a little water and
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: a fan and some cotton.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: Is that why I hate the feeling of wet towels,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: because it's just sucking the heat right out of my body.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: That very well could be Yeah, all right, So do
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: you want to get back to the intro of the chapter.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: I would love to get back to the intro of
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: the chapter and talk about an actual wheel of time subject. Please.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, So it's humid, there's lots of hungry refugees, and
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: the streets are muddy. Kat Swain is really describing the
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: city and how the Demani are different, both you know,
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: esthetically and culturally, but really just culturally, like all the
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: different things about them and how that relates to their streets.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: And again very Pacific Northwest. I get like gold Town
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: kind of vies with like the muddy streets and like, no,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: we're not going to pave them, Like obviously it's not
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: a gold rushdown. This is an old, established city, but
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: like the super muddy streets is like is it eighteen
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: nineties San Francisco, Like, yeah.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: There is a street. I mean I can go around it,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: but there is a street that I almost have to
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: take to get to who my current place that is
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: an unfinished street that has potholes that like they're big.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: I have to go down and then back up these potholes,
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Like that's the size of these potholes. They're not like
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: you hit them with your tire and it just goes
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: over it.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Portland has some genuinely has never been paved.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: This is still the frontier kind of city. Streets just
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: tucked away in alleys for sure.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: And they just they throw a sign and it's like
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: unfinished unfinished road. You're like, why why not finish it?
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: You've finished every other road around here. It's a five
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: not even that long, five car length piece of road, Like,
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: just pave it, why not? Yeah?
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: But no, just back in the middle of the city,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, we just quite haven't really gotten around
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: to it, because really it's just a lot to do.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: I guess I don't understand. It. Seems like this is
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: the only city where I've ever been where they have
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: unpaved roads smacked out of the middle of the city
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: that are just like, oh, yeah, this is a country road. What.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: No, it's not, because the city was just a collection
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: of random country roads not that long ago. It's not
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: like your fancy ass Virginia where people have been building
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: their bullshit cities for centuries. Like Portland is a young
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: baby city. It's not for that baby of cities, but
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: it's younger than what's back east.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: I do think it's funny when you guys talk about
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: your ancient homes from the eighteen hundreds.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Uh huh, exactly, exactly exactly. It's a much newer city
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: than the original thirteen Colonies.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: Which is much newer than you know anywhere in Europe
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: right now.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's the time progression of westward expansion and
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: manifesting the destiny. So Kat Swain is making her way
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: to her favorite inn in this city, which is called
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: the winds Favor, where there are the parents of an
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Is to Dye that she noticed was really smart and
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: really cool, and her parents have in fact been quite
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: amenable to another Ice to Die, just sort of rolling
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: up and making them part of her eyes and Ears network,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: because like, yeah, our daughter's IC to Die. I to
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: Die are cool. Everything's neat, And this is an investment
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: as that Kat Swayin has made a long time ago.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: She's really been laying the groundwork for being able to
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: have these kinds of contacts anywhere. She's been working on
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: this for centuries, right, Like she knows how to be
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: prepared for anything. So she goes there for a news
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: dump from someone who is primed to give her the best,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: most curated news for her purposes.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: And this guy is I mean the humor hero I
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: actually really like because he is running a white glove,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: white table, sit down four star restaurant with fancy dishes
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: and it's called Quintillon's Tavern or whatever. This place, you know,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: like a Wind's favor, the Wind's favor whatever. But people
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: walk in here thinking it's a bar, right, and they'll
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: ground and he's like in a butler's outfit, ready to
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: serve you. Right, he's got velvet on underneath this, but
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: he's like almost has his apron on performatively right, and
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: you're just like, this is weird because he's not trying
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: to make any money, he's just doing it. He's costplaying
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: an inkeep.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it is so funny that he is
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: very like he's just playing house. He's playing dolls, right,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: He's costplaying, he's lurping. He's just like everyone needs to
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: come in here and play the game that I want
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: to play, which is that of a very refined art
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: gallery and wine sipping shop, and like no one is
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: here for that, but also they keep coming it like
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: it's just really funny. He is hilarious and just like
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: and a cat twins, like he has all the money
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: he wants, he retires, and this is what he wants
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: to do with his free time. Whatever. I don't care
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: what people do with their free time. I don't have
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: time to worry about what people do with their free time.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: It's so funny, but it's you know, it's a dream.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: I've heard so many people, especially like office workers or
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: people who've never like actually worked in a restaurant. Is
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: like they have a favorite restaurant they go to and
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: they're like, oh, man, I just want to spend all
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: day here every day, right because I love this restaurant.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: And so they get this dream of opening a restaurant
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: that is their perfect restaurant that they would just want
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: to hang out in all day. The only restaurant owner
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: that I've known that likes to hang out in their
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: place all day and not do work are the alcoholics
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: who just drink there constantly and run the business into
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: the ground. It's not feasible. Restaurants exist on extremely thin margins.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: You need an external source of wealth keep them going.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: If you're going to run them that way, and then
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: you're not going to get the business that you want
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: because you're not going to get the customers coming in,
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: So I don't know, it's a funny little thing, like
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: you have to be ultra rich to open up one
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: of these restaurants, and he he is, and he's got
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: a wife.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: Who is yeah, And I feel like Robert Jordan slash
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Brandon Sanderson knew some people like that. This feels very
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: much like they have also heard about this dream and
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: had these similar thoughts of like, I don't think that's
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: a realistic thing, and they just kind of wrote it
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: in as like ha ha, I've people watched enough. I've
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: done my home people watching.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, because I do. I feel like I've walked
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: into those places where you're like, is this a front?
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Like there's no way they exist on these few customers
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: selling having this mess staff selling this product at these prices, Right,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: you do the math in your head and you're just like, no,
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: there's no this has to have another source of income,
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Like it either has to be a front or it's
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: got a rich huner who just wants to do this
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: for fun. And sometimes you can get the best fucking meals, right,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: Like the joke is, well, you know where you get
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: the best Italian food at the mob front, right.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Like that makes sense.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: That's how I imagine as you walk in and it's
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: just like fancy quail eggs and delicate cuts of fruit
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: and the finest wines, and it's all for like just
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: ridiculously cheap, but like nobody's comfortable there, so no one
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: wants to actually eat there. But yeah, there's this this
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: refined group of people who find that they do want
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: to keep coming back and so quickly. It's kind of
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: like I am overworked.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And that's the thing too, is he's like, I'm
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: so overworked. She's like, you could hire help, and he's like,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: absolutely not. It's way too much fun to be personally
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: overworked by my own business. And it's like, sir, this
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: is a very strange idea of retirement.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: But whatever, he's making friends, he's making friends, he's having
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: a good time, and his wife is willing to support
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: him in his strange hobby, so you know whatever.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: It's cool. I like the world building of that, and
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: that their daughter would have been in astute and studious
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: person who goes into the brown and just catches cad
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: Swain's eye just by being competent. I just like that
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: as background world.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: Building A new Brown sister. I don't think I've seen
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: any evidence of this person before or since.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the name doesn't ring a bell at all. She
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: exists entirely to justify why kad Swain has a twenty
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: thirty year long relationship with these people.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: A lot of new characters introduced in these chapters. The background,
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: I said, I the background Aschamon, Yeah for sure. So
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: we get some gossip. I don't know how much that
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: you wanted to talk about. Aslam is the king. He's missing.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: We know he's what trekking across the carling Grass.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: And this is where a lot of that good evidence
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: comes from, is that he's been missing for at least
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: half a year, right, which means that if he was
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: kidnapped by Forsaken, it was like the day after they
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: got out, right, Like he's been missing for a long time.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: This is good evidence for like why, no, he actually
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: was just kidnapped on like a normal White Tower plot timeline.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: But I imagine they kind of got lost and then doing
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: what paren and Agwayne did, except they didn't have Elias
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: to correct them.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. They went wandering off into the
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Caroling grass, pointed at literally and nothing points somewhere on
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: the mountains and like, yeah, it's not until Rand figures
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: out how to track them down that they have anywhere
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: near civilization.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Doesn't codswayn end up sending somebody to go find them,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: or just doesn't she go find them.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: I forget exactly how it goes down, but yeah, they
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: I fully believe that. Yeah, they were just pointed to
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere the entire time and just kept believing, oh, well,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: we'll see something eventually, and I just know you're not
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: going to see anything. Eventually, you'll hit the mountains and
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: there won't be any roads or anything, and it's gonna suck.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: Because then you've got the borderlands and the trolks and
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: yeah whatever.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah exactly. So Yeah, that's that's all that I
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: really think there is to talk about there. And then yeah,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: we talk about the spoilage and how it's much worse
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: and people are inventing conspiracies about ideal poisons to explain
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: why the food is going bad, and Katswan sort of
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: casually asks offhandedly, well, but you know, at least there's
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: the balance. He says, Yeah, that would be nice, but no,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: that's not what's happening, And she's like, whoa hold on,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: can you please confirm that? Go and like talk to
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: your contacts and confirm for me that that's not just
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: selection bias, Like seriously, and we we know that that's
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: what's happening. But this is cad Swain like actually getting
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: some hard data to say something is warping about Rand
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: beyond his usual tavern.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Is that dark warp behind that she sees out of
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: the corner of her eye that matches with the sort
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: of darkness around him that's causing the unbalanced to Verean effects, Right,
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: this is him touching the dark One, and he is
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: no longer a force to balance out the dark one, right,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: which he becomes after veins of gold. He then was
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: able to put his foot down and create goodness because
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: the dark One is creating badness. But right now he's
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: just on the other side of that seesaw accelerating its
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: descent yep. And like that's probably why he has little statue, right,
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: He's the only one who can really you know what.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: She sort of wonders, what would happen, What's going to
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: happen if he faces the dark One? What happens if
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: bad things keep going. What does it mean if the
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: balance is breaking down? Like, I think that's another way
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: that the Dark One can win. And Rand could quote
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: unquote destroy the pattern, is right, like, by fully giving
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: in to the Dark One, even if he himself isn't
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: necessarily calling down the power to destroy the pattern, the
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: dark One is going to keep influencing it until bubbles
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: of people take over where the land is unstable, the world,
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: you know, reality doesn't really exist as a thing anymore,
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: and the pattern breaks down and the end of all
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: things right right, Like, I think that's the other way
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: the Dark One could win is just like Rand going
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: forsaken Rand and just keep going because the land is
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: won with him, right.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean then the entire land would be
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: like tainted and diseased and blighted, and yeah, that would
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: that would work for the Dark One's purposes as well.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, bail fire causing bail screams or whatever the heck.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: Does are Yeah, totally totally. And then she admits that
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: she messed up with Rand, which is nice, even if
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: she won't admit it. No, she does admit it to others.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: She admits it to the AEO. She first she admits
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: it to herself, and then she goes and she admits
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: it to the au and it's nice. It's more humility
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: than I honestly would ever have expected from her. I
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: remember reading this the first time being like, wow, that
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: is way more humility than all the other eyes that
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: I collectively have shown.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, she is balancing it with like, well, they
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: stole the call from me, but the Shaw and Chance
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: really have copies, and they could have gotten the copy
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: from them at any point in time, So it's really
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: not that bad of a thing that I did. And
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: that really the reason the Adam was taken from my
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: room was to so distrust between me and Rand more
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: so than their inability to get a hold of the
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Adam Male Adam.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which I completely agree with her on, but that
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: seems like, yeah, we know that many of those exist,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: we know that she like prophesied to be important. According
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: to min, it totally makes sense to drive her off.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: And then this thought he should never have to suffered
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: the collaring of the hands of one on the forsaken No,
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: you're right, he shouldn't have. Godd Swayne, and what you
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: should have died? I'm like you with your net of
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: Taran griol. I feel like could have been there to
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: help him and done something more. I don't know's That's
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: the one thing that really bugs me about codd Swayne
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: is she just has so much power at her fingertips
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: and I'm always wondering, like what is she doing with it?
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: So like she should have kept the collar embracelets like
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: on her person so she could defend them to the
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: last to keep anyone from getting them.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Kind of yeah, something like that, Like I feel like
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: leaving them in an awarded box when you just know
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: wards are pretty ineffective.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: She doesn't know wards are ineffective. Why would she know that? When?
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: When would she have learned?
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: That?
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: She hasn't seen weaves fail yet and shied O hurons
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: a completely unknown factor. No Forsaken has demonstrated that ability.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: I would argue that, I mean, they've seen Forsaken break
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: out of a shield, but they know that's possible anyway.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Right, But this is different. This is her own innovated
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: ward that she's never seen anyone get past. And she
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: hasn't seen the traditional like white Tower wards fail no one,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: no one has told her about that yet, So like,
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I think she fucked up way more
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: with her bullying of Rand than with her story to
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Dam and I appreciate that she's admitting that that's where
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: she fucked up rather than the Adom, Like the Adom's
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: not the big fuck up. The big fuck up was
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: being a bully, right right, right right, because I think
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: that Rand was going to get collared by Messana or
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: by Semarag no matter what. Like I think that with
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: the sean Chan having with with Semarag, having made sure
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: the shan Chan had multiple copies, I feel like Shiderhuran
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: was going to make sure that loop got closed. But
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: slicing Kat Swayne out of the picture at the same
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: time was like, but I just I don't see how
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Simrock wasn't going to get a chance to call her Rand.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: I feel like there's too much plot there to not
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: have that happen.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: The point I wanted to make is the real point
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: is to get the children call back into his hands.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, she does think about how maybe the entire thing
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: was all a distraction to get the child on call
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: back to him, which, given how Vansa Gould goes, yeah, yeah,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: I could buy that.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's a two for right, get him
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: to touch the true power and get him something powerful
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: into his hands, right.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: And she's keeping him from having that powerful thing, So yeah, no,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: I do agree that it is important to escalate his
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: intensity by getting that showed on call back to him,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: and she knows how important that would be, so she's
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: in the way with keeping it from him. And yeah,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: so she's thinking about if it's too late to change him,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: and how he's an exemplary peasant who didn't go mad
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: with power.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: But yeah, congratulations, he didn't like get revenge or do
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: any of the things that.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Like it feels so like classes too, because I'm like,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know that your assumption about most peasants granted
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: power is actually accurate. Kat's fine.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, most people granted power, the nobles do it,
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: just it would you know. It's probably one of those
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: things where the nobles are just as greedy, just as destructive,
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: just as revengeful. But oh my god, if a peasant
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: does it, it's clearly the peasant's fault.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Right, Like, well, only people who have been raised to
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: know about power could possibly handle power well. And with
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: the right education, everyone's good with power.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: And it's like ahhhh, which is crazy. Because like, you're
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: from the White Tower, where half the women more probably
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: the majority of the women are not from noble backgrounds.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: But they've still spent centuries being trained on how to
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: live in that world, right, like more than most people,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: So you know, you can be trained to it. But
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: rand was just granted power without centuries of being beaten
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: about the head for it first. So you know, I just, yeah,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: it just feels very much like Katswayne has not touched
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Grass on that particular subject in a minute, which I.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Mean, yes, she's arrogant and she's being written as such,
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: so you know, I'm not like against this. I do
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: think this is kind of Codswain to a.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: T, and I think it's very yes to die. I
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: think it's very much the institution of the White Tower
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: as embodied in this nearly three hundred year old member.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Right, And that's sort of how I always thought of
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: codswayin is the embodiment of the ancient crumbly spirit of
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: the old eyes of the Old Tower, right.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Which is why the Old Guard.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it just is the worst decision for the new
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: ambulance seat after the last battle. I don't understand that
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: the worst, right, because she is the embodiment of the
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: old Tower. Now maybe you can say she the last
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: battle changes her, but I haven't seen any evidence of that.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: She admitted she was wrong in her head and to
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: her colleagues in the iiel this one time. Okay, it's gross, Okay. Yeah, So,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: like I understood that, like Igwayin Dying was a thing
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: that could be needed to happen, but like moving backwards
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: to Cad Swain was like, what are you doing? Get
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Sharena in there? If you want an old lady, at
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: least get a new old lady.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: I mean not that Sharena's ready at all, because she
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: hasn't even been raisedize to accept it yet. But like
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, it's ridiculous that they
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: picked CAD's Swain at the end of all people. She's
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: so calcified and as you said, crumbling, Like she's strong,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: She's that final bit at the very center that last
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: till the end. But this is the end. The thing
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: has crumbled.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: Ah Yeah, Like I like the head canon that she
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: got out of it somehow.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she just like vanishes the day before like bye, bitches,
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Swayin dies again, we think, yeah, definitely.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Meanwhile, she's got the oaths off of her and she's
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: joined the canon off writing. You know, I think I
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: do think that's something she would do, is be like,
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: I'm too old, I'm going to forsake the oaths and
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: join the kin.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: And like she can get her hands on the oath
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: rod and say I forswear forirstwear a'll ohs the bind
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: made like done. Deal. You can't make her eyes to
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: die now or can't make her imland now? Haha, Oh
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: well that's not where we're at.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean they can because they made a GWayne
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: the amerline without the Oaths on her, but.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Not if she has a fast horse and she just
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: literally runs right. So yeah, she leaves the inn. She's
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: thinking about stuff. She notices the Cea folk with all
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: of their Sean Shan ships from the Great Escape. I
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: kind of like that, just a little like minor detail
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: in the background. She's like, oh, yeah, I heard about
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: that big escape that they all managed. Cool neat anyway,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Matt's escape. Yeah right, yeah, it's a big deal. It's
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: like factored a lot into Matt's plot and Katswain's just
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: noticing it. By the bye. I love that one event
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: scene from multiple POV things that's good, and then she
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: gets her spidy senses tingle because Rand is looking at
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: her as he rides down the street and she, you know,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: plays a cool and thinks that she was sneaky sneaky,
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: and Rand totally sees her but just allows it to
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: pass because she did keep her hood up and whatever.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: They're going to play this weird eyes to dine mind
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: game together.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: So I think that the pattern keeps throwing them together
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: because she's not trying to find him, She's trying to
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: avoid him, and he keeps being like, why is she
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: following me all over the place? Everywhere I go? There
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: she is, and she's not trying to do that, right,
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: She's doing stuff on her own. So I absolutely think
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: there's something tevereen pattern going on trying to throw them
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: back together, trying to fix you know what. For whatever reason,
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: the pattern has chosen Codswain to be the one who
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: will have this bright idea, right, and it happens at
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: the end of the scene to grab Rand's dad and
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: that's what fixes him.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, Rand is just a gravity well and
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: everyone who needs to talk to him will be pulled
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: towards him. Physically and needs to talk to him, and
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: if you try to avoid him then it's not going
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: to help.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Particularly she sees that darkness out of the corner of Rye. Again.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: We've talked about that a bunch. It's ever since he
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: touched the true power.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then she has an idea and heads off
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: to the Aeel to ask them about it, which involves
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: her sitting on the floor. I've been tracking how her
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: and the Aeal interact and initially Sori Leah actually makes
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: the effort to sit in a chair to talk to
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Cad Swain and it's awkward, but you know, is showing
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: respect to CAD's Swain. And at this point she is
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: coming in and sitting on the floor with them. She
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: is no longer having them sit on chairs with her.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Now she is coming to them and immediately seating herself
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: on the floor. Like her relationship to the IEO wise
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: One says changed.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: And I like that they respect her as a fellow
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: wise one, whether or not she's a you know, good
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: is sid eye. They respect her right, which wakes me
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: question the judgment. But you know, she.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: Does the things that they respect as strength.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Right, right, which is saying taking authority for herself. Yeah,
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: that's the real big one. That's what makes a wise
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: one wise one. And someone who can stand up and
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: say I know what is best. Yeah, and God Swayne
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: has niffed nothing else. Someone who stands up and says
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: I know what is best and I will do whatever
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: it takes to make that happen.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: She is profoundly convicted lightness, and that is really all
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: it takes for the wise ones.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Now, I do like NN talk says, have a seat
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: over by the beans. But the idea that, like sitting
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: on the floor doesn't degrade god Swain, but being faced
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: first on the floor did degrade Samarag Like God Swayn's
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: able to humble herself enough to sit down on the floor,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: and that doesn't lessen her power.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: It increases it well, because she's coming to the wise
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: ones as equals and saying I respect you so much,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: I'm going to follow your way of sitting like she
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: keeps her on her and theirs intact.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: And I guess it's not like other people are in
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: chairs forcing her down, So it's exactly exactly.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: She's just like, oh, I don't need you to come
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: to me. I need to come to you. So all
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: I have left in this POV is Sanderson for once
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: not spelling something out in absolute triplicate and just sort
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: of leaving us on a hanging note of what kad
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: Swain's plan is? Dun dun dune. What could it be?
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: She smiles and begins to explain it in the POV switches,
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: But like, we know it's Tam.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: We know it's Tam.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: For once s Anderson manages to leave a small amount
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: of mystery on the page, So good for him.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: However, I will say, there's not a lot of clues
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: before the mystery is revealed. There's nothing here where we
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: can go. Oh, that's where she was thinking of Tam.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: It's just like I have a plan, okay. Yeah, if
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: she'd be like, I have a plan that involves the
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: two rivers, or I have a plan that involves you know,
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: or if there's something related to fathers or fatherhood or
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: any thing here that gave us a clue.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was looking here because I clearly this is
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: the Tam idea, and I was looking really closely, like
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: how are her preceding thoughts leading up to that light
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: bulb of moment of oh, I need to get his dad.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: He needs to confront his father and be faced with
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: who he was and who he is, and like go
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: through that process. I don't see how her preceding thoughts
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: factor into that conclusion. I don't. I don't see it.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: It's very confusing. Like I'm glad that she thought of it,
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: because it does work, but like, I don't see. Liligend says,
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: it's about the trust. He didn't seem to trust us
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: to die. He didn't trust anyone except men, So it's
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: about trust. Who does ran trust? Could he? Who does
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: he trust? It's not in the picture already his father.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, that must be the threat, because I
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: can't see anything else is I guess I'm nodding, But yeah,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: it's funny that Sanderson can beat so many other things
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: to death and managed to leave this kind of a
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: little unfulfilling kind of funny. But anyway, she goes to
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: the a yell she suggested to the ideal the I
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: think it's a great idea. The plan goes forward.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: I do, like she doesn't. She can't figure out why
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: the wise ones can channel and live so long and
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: not achieve agelessness. Oh, come on, the oth rod obvious.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: I'm surprised that Kat Swayne can think about it long
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: enough to make a sentence about it and not figure
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: it out. That kind of surprises me. But whatever, she's
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: got other shit to think about.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: I guess, I guess. And yeah, she tells the wise ones,
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: I have failed. Right, she made that pact with Sourelia
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: to teach him how to cry again and all that
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: kind of stuff, and she's like, I've completely fucked it up,
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: Like I've made zero progress, but I have one last
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: hail Mary.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and pov switch two rand the sort of him,
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: And this is we're seeing because she saw him, So
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: this is this isn't later, This is him at the
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: exact same time, right, This is because she goes to
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: the a yell and talks to them. He's he sees
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: her as she goes off to talk to them, right
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: like so yeah, yeah, basically yeah, concurrently, this is concurrent.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: Ryan glanced over his shoulder, watching Cotsway and scuttle away.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: She probably thought that he hadn't noticed her hiding there
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: at the side of the street. The cloak hit her face,
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: but nothing could conceal that self assured posture, not even
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: the clumsy foot gear. Even as she hurried, she seemed
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: in control, and others moved out of her wait reflexively.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: She flirted with his prohibition, following him through the town
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: like this. However, she had not shown him her face,
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: and so he let her go. It had probably been
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: a poor move to exile in the front, but there
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: was no going back now. He would just have to
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: control his temper in the future. Keep it wrapped in ice,
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: steaming deep inside his chest, pulsing like a second heart.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: You know what happens if you wrap something hot in
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: ice and keep it compressed. Kaboom.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, feels like maybe not the most sustainable way to
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: move forward, And I feel like.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: That's sort of the point is like he's he's cracked
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: and solidified, but there's all this pressure building. It's like,
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: you know, the big one with the Pacific Northwest. Right.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: The longer you go and the harder you stiffen, the
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: more pressure builds.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You need to be flexible, Yeah, yeah, adaptable, flexible, resilient,
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: not brittle, not compressed, not pressurized. Pressurized is bad. Rand.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: That's a bomb.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: It's a bomb.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: So he's you know, trying to watch on the food distribution, right,
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: he thinks that's important to make sure that the people
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: who are supposed to get the food get the food
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: and it doesn't which I mean, I feel like that's
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: something we've seen in America and peacekeeping missions, as if
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: we just drop the food in areas, oftentimes worlords get
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: it and use it to just get more powerful. The
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: rich get richer if you don't distrect the wealth to
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: the equally.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's generally true of refugee resource managements. You do
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: need infrastructure and not just a pile of food.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: We get introduced to the Ashaman Naife, who is as
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: far as I can tell, this is his first introduction
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: and his isidi elevator Demislin. That's a rough one. Also,
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: as far as I can tell, brand new to this chapter.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Naife, we do see repeatedly. He's the first
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: one that Ninive heels of the madness if I'm recalling correctly.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: But yeah, he is new here.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he gets a pretty decent storyline from here on out,
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: Like he becomes one of the you know, because we
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: get deep into the Black Tower and he's with Finn
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: for a lot of it because he's, you know, one
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: of the good ones.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Right, and yeah, he's been part of the communications team
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: between Rand and Tuan to set up this meeting where
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: she isn't being impersonated by Sammarag.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: And by the way, he's particularly strong in air in
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: case you care.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's cool. Unusual, Oh right, yeah, because air is
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: not traditionally male strong, because they are earth and fire
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: and women are air and water. So that's cool, which.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: Is something that's kind of dropped as we get later
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: on into the series, because like, everyone's just powerful enough
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: with all four elements, it doesn't really matter five.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: Sorry, Yeah, well, the both spirit is split equally, but yeah,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: it's a very subtle difference. It's not like a massive,
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: huge deal. Not very subtle, but it's not. Yeah, it's
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: one of those mechanics that is more relevant to the
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: lower powered you are.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: So I'll just say the sean Chan are not willing
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: to meet, you know, basically in neutral territory. So he
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: suggests they just meet in the center of their heart
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: of their territory, which is Falma.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: Right, which also just so happens to be the place
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: where he kicked them squarely in the teeth last time.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: Right, So it's definitely a double message. I really do
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: like the way that message comes together of like, yes,
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: it's in your territory, but I did fuck you up
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: here once and I will do it again.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a nice callback to some book two energy.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: It's very yeah, layered meanings. It's good. I like it
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: as a choice. And then we get the lovely distinction
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: of we're gonna have to work with the shan Chin
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: regardless of our differences. I don't know if thinking that
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: people like us should be enslaved is a difference. Really,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: it feels like more of an existential threat than just
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: a difference. But okay, Rand, like we have that conversation
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: just squarely on the page, which I appreciate.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I can see where like Tuon would never
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: negotiate with Rand because he is a channeler, I can
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: see where that would be very difficult to arrange, difficult
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: to negotiate around. It's if you can't admit if the
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: other person exists or is human, it's difficult to negotiate
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: with them.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: Right, which then begs the question of why would you
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: bother negotiating with someone who already has stated they think
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: you're subhuman? Like why am I giving you the time
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: of day? Then? If you don't see me as a
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: fully human person.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: Well, and with the Ran, it's because I'm not necessarily
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: He's like, I'm not, I'm the dragon Reborn. I'm something different,
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: And they're going to negotiate with the dragon Reborn to
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: deal with the last.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: Battle, right, which I get it. He's bigger than life,
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: he's a legend, he's a myth.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: Like.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: I get the rationale there, but it is I do
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: appreciate one of his subordinates pushing back on this isn't
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: just a difference of opinion. This is slavery, like there
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: is a degree that matters here to normal mortals, even
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: if it can't matter to you, mister demigod.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: And Rand responds to that push back in a rational, calm,
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: sane way and takes it into account that absolutely listens
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: to the people around him and incorporates their feedback. And
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: or or he says, descend you cannot be tolerated dissension
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: and lies that brought him to the collar no more.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: He just makes one of his most loyal followers just
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: wilt like with the full power of his displeasure. It's yeah, superrational,
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: very calm, very measured great for coherence, it's very forsaken.
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: This is not leading with love, This is not leading
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: with coalition. This is leading with fear. It's a super
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: forsaken mode.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: He stares him down until he bows down his head
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: in fear.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, super forsaken.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: Rand talks about how LTT has been distant since he
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: touched the Dark One.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: It's getting into silent treatment.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder it if it has something to do
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: with like the way the True Power and the Taint
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: interact with each other, right, because they're both from the
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: Dark One. You'd think you would almost expand it a
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: little bit or something like that, or like, Yeah, I
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: wonder because if it really feels like Rand is gone
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: insane and what's left is a tiny little saying part
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: of his mind screaming in the corner, and that's the
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: part that's able to create veins of gold, but right
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: now it's totally sassumed in that dark mass that's touching
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: the rest of his brain.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think it's just that Rand is so
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: deeply sunk into his madness that, yeah, the voice doesn't
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: necessarily need to be there all the time. He's that
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: deep into the process of having all the voices screaming
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: all the time in his head.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: This is the whole Like, yes, we do follow a
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: leader who is clearly mad because he's winning, right, right,
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: but he's clearly mad, Like this is no longer a
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: sane man is Everyone's like we failed, We failed to
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: keep him sane. Now what do we do right?
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: How do we keep the madman continuing to stay oriented
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: on the good and righteous path that leads us to
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: surviving the last battle? So Ninieve comes up. She's got
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: her effusion clothing, where she takes local clothes and makes
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: them more too rivers y, And I think that's cute.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: I like her stubborn adaptability. She's both anding that as
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: hard as she can. She's not going to dress like
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: a two rivers woman, but she's also not going to
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: dress like a local. She's somehow going to do both
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: at the same time.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: Which is how new fashion is made totally.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: I like that she's taking the time for that. On
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: the side, that's part of how she like blows off
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: steam is like getting nice clothes that works for her well.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: And nice clothes have always been part of Nineed's character,
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: as much as she's hated to admit it. She's always
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: focused on clothes in a way that the other characters
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: have not. Even if that focus was always that's not modest.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: You need to wear two rivers wolens, right, She's always
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: paid a lot of attention to clothes.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think she's embraced that about herself more
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: at this point. We're spending less time complaining about clothes
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: more time adapting them, And I love that for her.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: I left that growth arc kind is.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: Like, oh, homophobe, spend a lot of time thinking about
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: gay man having sex, and you go, yeah, hmmmmm, I.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: Think about that so much, so obsessed.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's kind of how nine close is, Like, Yeah,
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: she loves she loves clothes so much, and in the
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: beginning she's so resistant to it. Two woolens are good
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: enough for me, But she is looking at everybody else
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: is wearing these silks with incredible envy. And once she
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: starts getting in them, she has the biggest wardrobe. She
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: gets the nicest clothes. They are custom fit, they are
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: custom designed to do exactly what she wants. She thinks
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: about nothing but clothes.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which like good for her. She needs a hobby
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: in between chuggling her stoic husband and her you know,
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: childhood charge, who's going to save the world. Like she
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: needs a frivolous not even frivolous, she just she needs
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: a hobby with very low steaks. She needs that. Good
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: for her. But it's also just it's a it's a
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: fun thing to watch, like you have put up such
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: a fuss and look at you now, you little fashion
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: Mavin really min gets all the credit for being a
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: fashion influencer, but Ninive is not not doing her part
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: in helping the fashion move forward. It's just less radical.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: Okay, here's this line. So she and Rand are debating
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: over whether or not he should go meet with Sean Chan. Right,
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: she goes, you can't be sure then they don't have
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: one on the forsaking with them, and he's like, eah,
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: they probably won't. And he's like, can you be sure
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: and he's like no, And she sniffed in response, indicating
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: that she'd won that argument.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: E don't need that, don't need that.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: The sniffed in response, that was enough that we don't
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: have to indicate what she's indicating by it. You don't
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: have to explain that, don't have to lay it out.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: Let the sniff rest.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: Let sneep, sleeping sniffs, lie.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: Stop me Shmi.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: He thinks about how ninive will never make idealized to die,
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: and he considers that like a feature, not a bug,
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: like the fact that she's so emotional, And he actually
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: says this when he's crossed over into the veins of
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: gold space too. He talks to her and he says,
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: never let them change you too much. Like the fact
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: that you are so passionate is one of your features.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: That's something that stays true from his forsaken phase into
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: his like zen phase.
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: Right, right, that part of her is important, and I
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: feel like it's what contrasts her with Moraine, right because
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: Moraine never ever ever gave into the emotional side. She
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: was ice cold the whole time. She did what had
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: to be done, whereas the Neve does what she feels
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: is right right, And they will both kick down doors
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: and punch you in the face and do go to
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: crazy lengths to do the thing that they feel they
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: have to do, but their motivations are so different. Moraine
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: is such a big picture end game. The means justify
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: the ends, The ends justify the means, however you want
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: to say that. And whereas the neive is an absolute like, No,
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: you help people now, and that's how you win the
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: last battle. You make everybody better now, and that's how
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: you build a coalition. You heal people now.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And as Vuji points out and chat like, both
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: of them end up walking side by side with Rand
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: into the literal pit of hem. Both of those approaches
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: are critical to how Rand is guided into managing everything
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: throughout the series.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: No, I love the two of them as a pair.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: You need both approaches, not one over the other, like
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: they both have a valuable approach. And yeah, them as
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: a pair at the end is so nice that both
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: of his moms can go in with him, both of
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: his magic moms.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: None of his magic moms. Yeah. Well, in this very
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: arthory and legend parts to that too. You know, Merlin
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: and the Lady of the Lake coming together are the
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: magical magical equivalent of Merlin. Well, and Merlin of course
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: being Tom Marilyn, Tom Marylyn. And that's why that's why
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: Moraine and Tom being a pair, because the two of
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: them together are Merlin, right, the old man magic user. Like,
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: that's how that myth became legend. They got merged together
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: as a single character named Merlin after Tom Marilyn. But
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: it was really the magic power was the Moraine.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: Morayinin I like it. I like it.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: The next bit is talking about Lan.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this whole thing with Lan is very much heartbreaking.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: The evident that Rand has changed profoundly, the way that
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: he thinks about Rant, the way that he thinks about Lan,
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: and like the voice inside of him that's like he
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: named you friend. It's like, oh, oh, the inflection point
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: is so real. If this is how he's approaching Land's
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: you know, final ride into his last battle, like Lance's
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: personal last battle, He's like, hmm, I think I can
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: use that anyway. Moving on, It's like even before Rand
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: would have been more upset by this.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, but there was always something in him, you know
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: where Land said, don't love a woman because when you die,
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: you can't protect her from the hurt, right, And there's
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: there's something there between Land and Rand that has always
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: been fatalistic and suicidal. And so there's there's a certain
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: level of understanding here where I feel like Rand is
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: being like, oh, he's finally doing the thing that he's
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: dreamed of doing, and of course the thing that I
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: can't wait to do, right, that's his whole promise to
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: Lewis Thearren I can't wait to die. Of course he's
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: not going to try and stop Land. He sees that
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: as enviable. He sees Land as doing the thing that
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: he hasn't doesn't get to do yet. Yeah, so of
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: course he's like, oh, good for him, I'm going to
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: use it.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: Right, He's like my mentor in being toxically masculine, is
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: being toxically he is getting to do. Yeah, the thing
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: that we both aspire to. Of course, I'm not going
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: to stop my hero from living out his most nihilistic dream.
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, No, that totally makes sense. But also I feel
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: like he would have maybe not said this to Nineve
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: before the strangling.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: You know, no, no, And I am firmally convinced. Of
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: course Rand is thinking that. But then part of Rand
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: is also pissed off that his friend is basically committing suicide.
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: Right this then he deserves what he gets for riding
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: without the rest of us. Rand said, he's jealous. He's jealous,
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: and he's also like, I think he's also a little
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: piss at Land for leaving him behind.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: Right, He's like, Lane, you were supposed to help me. Die.
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: You're supposed to help get me to where I need
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: to die. Now you're going to go die without me? Like,
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: how dare you? Yeah, Now there's a lot of complicated
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: feelings because, yeah, Land's relationship to Rand is unique. There's
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: no one else except maybe Ruarc who has that kind
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: of a relationship with Rand. As he's gone through this
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: arc into the dark place.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: Reu are the only one of the three who actually
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: dies in the last battle.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: I don't like that. You didn't like that. I don't
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: like that. I won't like that.
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the mind frying compulsion sucks so angry, but yeah,
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: there's a again this line of a very quiet place
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: deep inside of him was struck with worry over his friend.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: He had to ignore that worry, silence it. But the
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: voice whispered to him. He named you friend, do not
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: abandon him, And to me, this is like again, we're
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: seeing the reverse. So in the beginning, we just saw
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: phrases of LTT in his head. Now basically insane Rand
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: is coming forward and we're just seeing phrases of the
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: sane Rand in the back of his head. The last
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: remnants of the sane Rand is trying to plead with
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: the insane man who has taken over his body. Right.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: He also thinks about how Land has a choice and
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: doesn't know he's gonna die, and he's also got that
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: resentment of like he knows he's going to die, like, yes,
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: he wants to die, but also he doesn't have a choice,
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: so he might as well want it. And he's like,
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: Land still has a choice, and he's using that choice
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: to do the thing I want to do, but he
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: could choose differently. So there's layers of envy, there's layers
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: of jealousy.
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: There's lots of layers. Yeah, yeah, totally totally.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: N neive is you know, much more focused on the
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: humanitarian side of things. And it's like, how dare you?
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: I don't care for all these layers. I'm going to
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: slice through it with a big old knife if you
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: need to help your friend right now.
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and my husband I don't want him to die.
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: Also my husband mind you, but like, yeah, she's not
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: willing to play these mind games. She's like help now
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: and full stop, end of story. Help.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: So this is a walk and talk on the way
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: to his new like throne room, right, which is just
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: a fancy room with the throne in it in this
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: guy's house.
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: Well, it has the throne of the country has been
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: brought to the mansion, so it's really hard to call
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: it anything other than the Throne Room.
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: But yes, yes, the Iel have been trying to track
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: down all of the Merchant's Council to elect a new camp.
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: You know, they've got one who they were able to
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: Alamindra Kurin. They've got and they found one dead, Misham
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: do barrass. These people aren't that.
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: Important, No, No, the idea is just that they're collecting
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: some merchant council, they're discovering others are dead, and the
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: process is just going forward slowly.
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: Four captured, two dead. He needs four more, which probably
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: means there need to be at least six more because.
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: Two more are probably going to be right, Yeah, totally.
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: And you know this is one of those things where
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: you've probably found all the easy ones first, right, like
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: the ones you haven't found yet are going to be harder.
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: Each one you find makes it the rest progressively harder
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: to find.
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: Right right. And then of course there's the big question
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: that Ruark and Rand and the audience are all asking,
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: which is why why not just appoint people? But he
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: has you know, this weird stick in his spokes about
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: how this is how it has to be done for
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: whatever reason, so that's what we do. I don't get it.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: I genuinely don't get it. I just feel like he's stubborn.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, he lays it out later in that if
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: he appoints a king when he dies in the last battle,
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: that no one will believe that king has any power left.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: They will be overthrown and the country's back into chaos.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: He's trying to do it in a legitimate way so
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: that the person he leaves behind can say, no, I
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: wasn't elected by the dragon reborn. I was elected by you,
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: the council. You just happen to be forced here, and
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: so I still have power and I can still hold
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: this country together, and maybe there's a chance for peace. Right,
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: Like he is trying, despite him being like there's no
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: hope for a future after I'm gone, he is building
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: his coalition in a way that he hopes it survives
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: his death.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I just would have liked to see him do
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: this in more countries, I guess, as many countries had
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: as much loss of leadership. But yeah, he's committed to
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: it and you know, I admire his follow through.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: And he accepts the Crown of Swords not necessarily because
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: he conquered it, but because he sent them food and
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: he felt that that was a legitimate reason to be king.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: Right, they offer it to him because he fed them,
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: and he's like, well, that seems legit. That seems like
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: the correct currency transaction to have go down. Yeah, but yeah,
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: it's interesting here too. How he goes to the throne room.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: He starts on the throne, He goes up to the throne,
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: and then when Ruark comes in, he very deliberately comes
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: down from the throne to sit on the rug with
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: Ruarc and talk about things, and then go back up
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: to the throne when he deals with the nobles, like
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: he uses that throne like he knows what's going on, right,
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: Like he makes sure that they see him leave the
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: throne to talk to Ruark and then return to it
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: to talk to them.
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: Like the line Ruark, he treated with the respect you deserved.
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: The others, well they would get the respect that they
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: deserved as well, And it's just like, eh, yeah, they
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: don't deserve any.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, they get the respect they deserve that
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: they get what they've earned. Just like Ruark, He's treating
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: everyone equally in the sense that he judges them on
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: their actions and their loyalty. So, yeah, Milissar Chadmar is
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: here to give a report on her messenger that had
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: news of the king, and the news is that he
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: conveniently died two days ago by very very definite coincidence.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: For sure, nothing suspicious to look at here, except in
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: her case. She doesn't know why it happened right, like
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: she didn't order that. She's freaking out because as far
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: as she's concerned, it did happen randomly, right, and she
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: has no explanation for it. It's very upsetting for her.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: Because we know is what the stable boy.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: The chandler's apprentice curb.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: And he he was poisoning the prison.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, a slow poison that takes a long time if
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: it's put in your food, and Nineve doesn't notice it
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: until she goes to check on the prison and notices
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: that Militari is halfway through the same poisoning process herself,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: which happens because in this scene, Rand sentences her to
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: be held in the same prison cell as the messenger
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: instead of executing her outright.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: For her disloyalty or researching like why he was killed.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: Like he really does kind of just give up that
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: thread and he's like, oh, well that's a closed line.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: He doesn't continue to look and see like maybe that
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: person was killed deliberately. If they're killed deliberately, who killed them?
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: Would that person have any orders? Could I follow those
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: orders back to the person who gave them? Right? Like
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: that all seems like something you would do when trying
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: to solve and track down Grendal.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well he knew that Ninive wanted that plot, so
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: he left it open for her.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: Fair fair But yeah, he really does kind of like
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: just wash his hands of it really quickly.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he just says, oh, well that's a dead end
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: and I want to punish you, but I don't want
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: to kill you. So that's how I'm gonna close that loop.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: And ni Neive is the one who opens the file
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: again and says, I think there's something you missed here.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: Uh. Anything to say about.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: Ramchhalan Ramchalan will be relevant because he is the guinea
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: pig test dummy that gets thrown into Natran's barrow to
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: test if grand All is killed or not. That is
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: the mind that gets sent in to be infected with compulsion,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: so that way the strength of the bail fire can
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: prove that the person who put the compulsion there is gone.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: That's Ramchalan him here isn't really super relevant. It's just
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: fun to know that that guy in that scene later
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: does show up. Before that scene, I.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: Thought there was a little bit of a foreshadowing here.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: For still, men like him had their uses occasionally.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: Uh huh, Yeah, agreed, agreed. So yeah, Rand is still
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: really determined to find proof that Grandall is here, so
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: he orders the Iel to keep looking for more messengers.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: He sort of thinks about how removing compulsion would take
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: a healing he can't do, which, of course, you know,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: immediately invokes Ninive, Right, that's why she's going to be involved.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and even then, I mean, healing is doing a
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: lot of heavy lifting on the definition of what happen
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: weapons there. It's it's more of a cutting off all
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: of your limbs because they're all gangrenous, like you know, right,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: repaired to the way you were.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like brain tissue is destroyed and she can
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: lift the compulsion, but she can't restore the brain tissue
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: that was there, and replaced with the whatever the compulsion
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: was supposed to be. And I feel like minor compulsions,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe they just destroy like a memory or
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: something like that. Like they don't really do that much.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: Damage, right, you lose an afternoon.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, yeah, but like these big ones, they destroy
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: your personality because your personality is replaced with the drive
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: to do whatever it is you're supposed to do. Right.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's disabling and removing entire sections of your processing
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: to replace it with something else, like you can't put
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: that back.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: See, And here's where it says, you know, is that
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: why I resist naming a Domani king? Once I die,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: that man would lose his authority and air Demon would
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: be back to where it begun. If I don't have
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: a king who as a support of merchants that I'm
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: essentially offering the kingdom up to the Shawn chain the
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: moment I die.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, that makes sense. He's feeling very overwhelmed. He's just
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: sort of like looping on the idea that he can't
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: fix everything. He can't fix the world, he can't repair everything,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: he can't deal with everything, he doesn't have time. He's
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: freaking out. And then Nineva's like you have friends that
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: you need to care about and he just can't and
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: he has. Here is where we get our first hint,
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: or in our first hint, our most solid confirmed hint
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: that the timelines are completely cattywampus, because he has a
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: vision of paren with Gallad, which we are nowhere near.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: That happening Towers of Midnight chapter ten, Yeah.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: So far away from here. And then the other vision
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: is Matt in Camlin with.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: Tom Towers of Midnight chapter eight.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: Right, which we have more setup for that. At this
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: point we have spent more time getting told that Tom
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: and Matt are going to be and Camlin, but we
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: have really have no hint of Paraent and Galote coming
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: together at all. Yet this was such a weird foreshadowing
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: the first time I read it, being like Parat and
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: Galot are nowhere near each other anywhere in the plot,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: and everything about that happens between here and there. Whereas Matt,
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: at least we know he's trying to get to Camlin.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: He's trying to be with Tom and to get to
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: the Tower. At least that's happening to me.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: It's Sanderson signaling I am moving this timeline forward further
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: than those other two, and we will catch up with
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: them in the next book. Agreed, Agreed, And so yeah,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: this is what we're seeing here, is that, like Rand's
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: timeline is much further along than any of the other timelines,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: and Towers of Midnight is going to be an almost
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: crossroads of Twilight esque step backwards flight.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what those books are for.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's really it's it's it's not even really
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: it's recap but in a way of telling the same
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: thing from another POV because you need to find out
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: what those characters were doing during that timeline, which is
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: not a bad thing as long as they're not completely
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: focused on that power over in the corner.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: Right Instead, it's just literally these events were happening at
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: the same time and have almost no direct connection to
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: each other. They're just both leading to the same concluding event.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: And yeah, Rand says, you know that they're not even
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: really his friends anymore. I barely even know them. They
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: would say the same of me, which is like, okay, bleak,
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: it's so bleak, it's so so dark. He's in such
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: a dark place, he has no connection and doesn't want
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: any and you can't fire me. I quit like oof,
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: and also like, I mean really, this is the core
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: of the difference between where he's at now and where
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: he's going to be with zen Rand and like what
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: Ninive brings to it besides the cares of the real world,
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: the big world, the entire world. A pair of boys
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: from my little village are meaningless, and that's kind of
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: the entire point, is null. A pair of boys from
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: your village is actually the entire point. It's about them,
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: all right, Like caring about the people around you, the
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: people in your world. That is the point of life.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: That is the point of the wheel continuing to spin.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: That is the antithesis of what the dark one wants
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: for the world, is to care about the people that
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: you grew up with. Like that is actually what it
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: comes back to ultimately in the end.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: Meanwhile, Rans gets really pissed when I need express is like, hey,
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: maybe you shouldn't be so hard, like you need friends,
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: and he's like, fuck you, no, I don't. I'm the
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: dragon reborn. I'm gonna do what I need to do.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: And if you keep insisting did I take care of myself?
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: I'm going to exhil you. Like I e the last
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: person who insisted I take care of myself, which was scott'swain.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he reaches to his gun sorry his statue, right,
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: that instinct of reaching to her because he wants to
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: force Ninive to do what he wants. Yeah, and he's
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: willing to pull out a gun to threaten her with it.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he's And at the beginning of the chapter,
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: he's like, I'm putting all the emotions into a compressed
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: little bomb, and already here at the end of this
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: same chapter that is breaking down. When Nineyve pushes just
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: a little bit, it starts exploding out again. He's like, wow,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: I thought I was past this, and it's like, dude,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: you're not past this. You're really not.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: He forced it down. Just push those emotions down, Rand,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: just keep pushing them down. I'm sure that's not going
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: to be a problem at all.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and just the explosion of I will not be
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: played with give advice when it is asked for, Like, oh, buddy,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: that's not how you need your elders who have always
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: been there for you to approach you. You need to
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: be able to let them continue to just talk to
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: you like you're going dictatorial emperor at this point. You
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: haven't really been a dictator super often up until this point,
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: but you're really getting into tyrannical dictator space now. It's scary.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: No. Meanwhile, he sort of runs away and is thinking
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: a short time longer, you only keep things balanced a
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: short time longer. It's like Rand has been running with
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: these things balanced and like he's going to fall eventually,
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: I think is the problem. Yeah, right, And everyone's around
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: him is looking like, hey, maybe if you put those
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: on like a cart and pushed it around or accepted
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: some help, like, you wouldn't come to a crashing halt.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: We're all worried about the crashing halt. There's a lot
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: of valuable things like our world you're holding right there
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: right like, and he's thinking, oh, I just need to
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: keep it balanced a short time longer and then I
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: can just let it all drop. And everyone else is like, yeah,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: please don't let it all drop. Can you like hand
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: it off to us a little bit better, you know.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: Right, Like can you delegate? Can you take a multiple
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: trips from the car to get all these groceries? Like
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: can we get you a moving dolly like something.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: Meanwhile, he's got a fridge perched on his back while
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: he's carrying groceries in his hands, and you know, stomping
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: along be like I got it, I don't need help.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: I'm fine, right, And then Ninive tries to help, and
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: he's like, I fucking hate you, mom, and he goes
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: to his room and he slams the door, and it's
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: just like, I'm just trying to help. Like, dude, he's
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: he's having a very bad time. He's insisting that he's
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: past anger and then exploding less than half an hour later.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: Like it's just he's he's oscillating hard between the different
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: bad things.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: And you know, there's always the fact that he's mind
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: linked with Morgan, who's you know, nihilistic and angry at
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: things too.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that leaves us with the promise to lose
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: there and here in the readout.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Rand's anger surged. He's spun pointing at her. Would
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: you end up exiled like codswain? Ninive, He bellowed, I
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: will not be played with. I am done with that.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: Give advice when it is asked for, and of the time,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: do not patronize me. She recoiled and ran, gritted his teeth,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: forcing the anger back down. He lowered his hand but
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: realized it had begun to reach reflexibly for the access
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: key in the pocket at his side. Nineve's eyes fixed
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: on it, opening wide, and he slowly forced his hand
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: away from the statuette. The explosion surprised him. He thought
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: his temper controlled. He forced it down, and he had
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: a surprisingly difficult time of it. He turned and stalked
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: from the room, throwing open the door, his maidens following him.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: I will have no more audiences today, he told the
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: attendants who tried to follow him, Go and do as
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: I have told you. I need the other members of
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: the merchant Council. Go. They scattered. Only the Ideal remained
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: guarding him as he made his way to the rooms.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: He claimed in the mansion, a short time longer. He
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: only had to keep things balanced, a short time longer
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: then it could end, and he found he was beginning
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: to look forward to that end as much as UIs thearn.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: Did you promised we could die, Lewis Tharren said, between
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: distant sobs. I did, Rand said, and we will.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 1:12:39
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• 1:12:42
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• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: Spoilers is a production of Fox and Raven Media. For
• 1:12:49
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• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: at Foxendravenmedia dot com.