Latest / Murders to Music: Crime Scene to Music Scene (Streamline Events and Entertainment) / A Training Day That Turned Deadly: The Widow of Deputy Bill Bowman Speaks...

Transcript

A Training Day That Turned Deadly: The Widow of Deputy Bill Bowman Speaks... · Murders to Music: Crime Scene to Music Scene (Streamline Events and Entertainment)

• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Go home and talk to your people and ask them who they want knocking on their door when it's their worst day and ask them who they want carrying the casket on their worst day.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: And uh just little things I didn't, you know, I didn't know.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: I had to sit down a few days after he died and figure out what I how to create a headstone for him.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: People think because they coordinated Uncle Joe's funeral three years ago, they got this, and a lot of stuff is left out.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: And part of my story is about all the missteps that 25 years later still rattle me, just in regard to the ceremony and um all that led up to it.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Murders to Music Podcast.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Erin, I'm your host, and thank you guys so much for coming back and supporting me for one more week.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: So on tonight's show, we have a very special guest.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: But before I get to tonight's show, I just want to say thank you.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: I want to say thank you to everybody out there that supports, listens, downloads, sends emails every single week.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: It is amazing to have you guys in my corner.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes when the chips are down or when I'm not feeling it, that little inspiration, that little email will come in, and it just really turned my world around.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you guys so, so much for that.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: On tonight's show, we're gonna have somebody talk about the worst nightmare that any cop's spouse could think of.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that is the day that the phone rings or a car pulls up from the driveway to tell you that your loved one has been killed in the line of duty.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to talk to a nice lady that I met.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: I met her actually through some friends.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know her when I was in the law enforcement world, but before you know it, it's a small world.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: We all live in this tiny little fishbowl.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: We bump into each other, and our stories kind of aligned, and I was familiar with her situation, and she is willing to come on the show and talk tonight.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: So stick around.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: It may go a little bit longer than normal.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Please stick around.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: There's some conversations we never want to cut off.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: So here it is, ladies and gentlemen, let's have a conversation.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Hey Corey, thank you so much for coming on the show tonight and being willing to tell your story.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Your story, unfortunately, you're not alone in it.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: There's people all across this nation and survivors all across this nation that have a very similar story.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: But tonight I'm interested in yours.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: I want to hear a little bit about Bill.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: I want to hear about who he was as a husband, as a father, as a cop.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: What was he like at home?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then how long were you married?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: How long was he a police officer?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll get to the incident.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna get to that.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: But first, can you start off by just telling me a little bit about you, your background, and Bill?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so back in the early 90s, I was working my way through college.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: I was going to school during the day at PSU, and I was working swing shift over at a manual hospital.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: And during swing shift uh in the emergency room, I was doing the patient registration, and we were able to see it was a trauma center, the life flight helicopter was there at the time, and there was a lot of activity coming and going, as you can imagine.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: One of the uh handsome ambulance drivers that brought a patient in at that time was Bill, and he was working for AA Ambulance, and uh he was a brilliant mind.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: He was uh just a lovely soul.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: He was completely centered on the patient when he came in and uh helpful in any way he could be to the doctors as they got registered in.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: And later he was hired on as a lifelite paramedic.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: And when the life flight crew was not working out in the out saving the world, he would be in the emergency room if we needed help.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: So on a slow graveyard shift or swing shift, we would get to talking from time to time.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: And uh through the course of graveyard shifts being extremely slow, we just got to know each other.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: And um we did start dating.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: And we dated for about six weeks, and he decided that he wanted to focus on his career.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: He wasn't ready to be centered on a girlfriend.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: He wanted to make sure that he was traveling the right road.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: So while he was doing the life light and AA ambulance shifts, he was also a reserve for Beaverton Police.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: The guy never slept.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: He just was so focused on everything having to do with his future, and he always wanted to be a police officer.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately, at the time, Beaverton Police uh was needed a four-year degree to get hired.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: So in 1994, he was hired by the uh sheriff's office, Clackamas County, and he uh began that process.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: And once he got hired by the sheriff's office, he did call me and we rekindled, and he was now at a point in his life where he could take a breath and say, okay, I can now provide for another human and I'm ready to uh enjoy that part of my life.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so in January of 1995, um we got engaged and um later uh moved in together and started the process of we bought a home and we did everything right.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: We built our own house and um we had I wanted to make sure that I had two kids by the time I was 30.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so we checked those boxes.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I was married when I was 25.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: Lauren was born when I was 27, and Gracie was born when I was 30.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: And we were just a happy group.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: And Bill was had his hand in everything.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: He loved rebuilding cars, but in the at the sheriff's office, he was part of the computer.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: At the back at that time, the laptops were starting to come out, and he was a part of the computer crimes, and he was interested in everything.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: He wanted to be an FTO, and he was really enjoying policing.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, and so that's where we ended um our bliss was uh uh in my 30th year.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: We were had been married five years at that time, and uh all things changed and got very dark at that.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't an extremely long relationship, but by the what how long we knew each other at the sheriff or at the from Emmanuel Hospital through uh getting married, it was probably about seven to eight years.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, how old were your girls um when things got dark?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll talk about that in a second, but how old were your girls at that time?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: So Lauren was two and Gracie was two months old.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: I was on maternity leave uh during that time.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And did Bill have any siblings?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Were his parents still alive?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um what was that dynamic like?
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: Bill's mom uh lived in Beaverton with her husband Jerry.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: Bill's dad had passed away when he was 18 years old.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: And Bill had one sister who uh lived in Beaverton and worked in Beaverton, and she wasn't married, no kids, and uh so everybody else from that family lived in North Carolina.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so um my larger family was kind of overwhelming to Bill, so to speak, because he was so used to just the tiny uh group, the family union he had.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I have a larger my parents are here.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: I grew up in Oregon.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: I've lived in Portland my whole life until Bill and I got together and and moved out to Oregon City because he was at the sheriff's office.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: I and so Portland to me is extremely small.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I go everywhere and I know everyone because my parents grew up here, my grandparents grew up here, and so there's a lot of family and a lot of friends that I have.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and so I kind of would drag Bill with me to these bigger events, and it was a bit much for him, but he got he came around.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: So what was it like being a cop's wife?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, is is there the fear of getting that phone call, that dreaded phone call, or was it something ignorance is bliss?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: What was what was it like being a cop's wife?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: Ignorance is bliss.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I would I just felt like I had this such an image of a police officer, you know, the they were just so sharp in their uniforms and they protected us, and and they were just they just had such a macho image to me.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I they they would come hang out in the ER in the at night and have coffee in our break room, just you know, so I felt like I was always around them, just chatting with them, and they just had such I just didn't feel like there was ever gonna be a time that um that there was an issue.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that actually, it's interesting because I kept that ignorance is bliss even through when I was pregnant with Lauren in 1997.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: I was with my uh friend watching the funeral of a Portland officer who was killed, and his pregnant wife was the same um far, she was eight months along, and so was I.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so very interestingly, no alarms ever went off.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: I just sat there feeling so very sad for her, and she's just about ready to pop, and um and just it never registered that the I should be concerned.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: I just felt like Bill was Superman, and there was no reason to ever think anything else.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: It was terribly wrong, but unfortunately that's what I did.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's I think it's natural, you know.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think it's a natural, normal thing.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Ignorance has bliss until you've walked and lived this life or been the spouse of a police officer uh or a first responder.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and until something really happens to to hit home and resonate, we we miss it.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: We miss all the all the cues.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's uh it's rough.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: I wish there was more.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: We'll talk about it at the end, but I wish there was more training.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: I wish there was more upfront knowledge that we could get into the hands of police officers and families and supporters and friends of police officers to help prepare them for the day that this could happen.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of that, can for those who have never lived this life, can you walk us through what it was like when you got notified that something had tragic had happened and tell us about that and then just go into the story and explain to us what happened?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: Certainly.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: So uh on September 11th of 2000, which was a Monday, Bill uh left with the Clackamas County Sheriff's Office SWAT team, and he left to go down to Camp Ryalea for a one-week training.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: And once he left our house, he went up to the sheriff's office and they took the fully loaded SWAT van down to Cap Ryalea, and they walked, they drove through the gates where it simply says, no live ammunition beyond this point.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason that stuck with me was because one of the things that you understand is that while you're at training, you go out of service.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: There's absolutely no reason that you need to have a fully loaded van with you down at Ryalaya.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so on Tuesday, they uh decided that they were gonna do one last scenario down in the Sim Town.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: And Bill was a bad guy, and he was up on the second level of one of the buildings in a hostage situation, and the snipers were on the second story of the second building.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: And the clip in the rifle was um jamming up.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't the bullets, the sim bullets weren't seating properly.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the guys got the brilliant idea that, well, sometimes you can get it to seat properly if you put a live round.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: If you can put a live bullet down in there, you can try and reseat them so that they can be um ready to go.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: So they took the gun back to the van and they had some live rounds and sim rounds all laying around.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: And then once they figured out what they needed to do, they went ahead and reloaded the clip and walked out of the van.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: At that time, the supervisor should have checked everybody and the um equipment, as they did not have the equipment, obviously, that you can have that will not fire live rounds.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: That person did not check the equipment and they went back and they did one last scenario.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then when they got up to that second story, um they had a conversation with a deputy that was there, and he wasn't a SWAT deputy.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: He was there to see if he wanted to be a part of the SWAT team.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: He was a firearms instructor when he was a Marine, and they felt comfortable asking him if he'd like to take the last uh scenario, and he said sure.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: So this kid um is in the second story as the sniper, and the and Bill is the bad guy hanging out the window.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately, as I know now, he did what no other human that I've ever spoken to before did is that he aimed directly at the target.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: And which, if unless you're going to kill that target, you should never aim directly at it.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: He took one shot and Bill went down.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: And everyone was so impressed.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: They thought Bill made that look so real.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so the guys down on the main level of the building Bill was in hollered up to him and said, Okay, we're done.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: Let's let's go, let's pack it up.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: And his friend Tim was one of the guys that was in that building.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: And when Bill didn't come down, Tim turned around to go holler at him, and that's when he saw the blood running down the cinder block wall from the second story.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: So he ran upstairs and he saw Bill, and he was so torn because he knew he couldn't disrupt the crime scene, so to speak, that that was his friend.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so he just sat there for a moment, tried to get his composure, and then ran down and you know, started yelling to all.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: So the people at Rayalea called back to the sheriff's office, and the under-sheriff uh came, or I'm sorry, it wasn't the under-sherif, one of the lieutenants came uh answered and said uh that he would go do the notification.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: And they decided, they decided that because Tim and Bill were friends, that obviously Corey and Tim's wife must be friends as well.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: So you should go get Tim's wife and have her help you come and make the notification.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm on maternity leave, I'm at home, I've got both girls with me, and I uh answer the door when the so I I see this car pull up, I see Christina, and I see one of the guys from the sheriff's office, and I answered the door and I said, Hey, what's going on?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: And uh he looks at me and he says, Uh, you should have Christina hold grace.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, No, I'm okay.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: What's going on?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so he said, Let's go sit down.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: So on the way over to my house from Christina, it's probably about two miles, and they had to stop a couple of times so Christina could get sick on her way over.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: So when Christina came into the house, she was a wreck.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: And the best thing she could do was stand against the wall and look at her feet because she couldn't look at me and she couldn't can keep her composure.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: So he and I sat on the on the couch.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: I had Gracie in my hand and my little two-year-olds bouncing off the walls.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: And he says to me, There's been an accident, and Bill's been killed.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I just looked at him and I said, What happened?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: And he wouldn't tell me anything.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: He said, I'm sorry that we we don't know anything.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: We were trying to get some information, and and we have really nothing to share with you at this time, other than it was just an accident at Ryalea.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I looked at Christina and I looked back at him and I said, Okay, let's go.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: And he looked at me and he goes, What?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, I want to see him, let's go.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, Oh no, we cannot do that.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, What do you mean?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: I I I want to see him.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't believe it.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, Absolutely not, we cannot do that.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's there's a lot of chaos, and we just need to keep you here now.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: So he gets up from my couch and goes into my kitchen and picks up the phone in my kitchen and says, Who can I call?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: Now, my parents have been in the same house since I was four years old, and I was praying that I could remember all of the digits on that phone.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so I gave him my my parents' phone number and he called, and my mom answered, and he said who he was, and he said, You need to get to Corey's house.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's bad.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: So my parents and my little brother get into a car and they drive from Portland out to Oregon City, wondering what on earth that could mean.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: No other information.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: And my parents and my brother walk in, and the minute my mom gets there, she falls at my feet, and I said, He's dead.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Bill's dead.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I just remember that she just collapsed.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, she just buried her head in my in my lap, and we just, but I wasn't crying.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: I was just blown away by this, what was happening.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: I I didn't have any sort of reaction because, well, I had this stranger in my house, but now my family's there, and I just I I couldn't believe it.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't registering.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so there was nothing for him to say to my family.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so that began the craziest night of my life because from about six o'clock at night till I don't know, the I don't even know.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: My door was wide open and there was a full house of people.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean full.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody wants to come be with you because they don't know what else to do.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then the scenario happened in Warrington, and so there was no place else that they could be to get their head around it.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so my dad and my brother actually left and they went up the street and were sitting on a curb up in the cul-de-sac because there was so much chaos, they there was no place to sit.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: And people were coming, and the they sent an escort to go get uh Bill's mom and stepdad, and they were actually at the beach, and so they drove them to my house.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: So now I've got Bill's mom and stepdad in my house, and I'm I just gave her a hug, and then she just disappeared in the sea of people.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: And the unfortunate thing about this was that through the course of the evening, with all of these people being allowed in, I was hearing bits and pieces coming in from what was happening down in Ryalea.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so um they had actually assigned some young kid to the front door of my house to be a gatekeeper, which was the absolute wrong thing because this poor soul had didn't have enough uh time on to be stern enough with all the people coming through the door, and the media was showing up in forces, and they were super excited because they thought this was going to be a great story of potential murder or whatever, you know, because that was kind of some of the things floating around.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm in this house with a smile on my face trying to figure out what in the world is going on, but I'm hearing stuff coming in.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm hearing things like before they went in to notify Corey, they already had attorneys down and at Rayalea interviewing everybody and making sure that they had all their information and start the circling of the wagons had begun before they even notified me that he was gone.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of times I've I hear um my story is so bizarre because I I now go back and I'll start throwing stuff into it in regard to what I know now.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it kind of it may be a bit confusing, but I just I hear stories of how sometimes when um there's a situation, you will go ahead and transport uh the fallen just in maybe to make just for the honor of it, um, the respect of it.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but unfortunately, I'm hearing that they had uh taped off Bill and he laid as a crime scene from six o'clock at night till four o'clock in the morning.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: There was no honor watch, there was no anything.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: He was merely a crime scene.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then he went off to the medical examiners.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: There was no um, there was no procession, there was no honor watch, there was no nothing.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: And my heart breaks for him because he was so much about the honor guard and the um the respect.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm hearing all these bits and pieces, and I'm just getting so upset.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so finally, these all these humans start to leave my house, and the door is closed, but the media is coming in droves.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: So the next morning, I I said to one of the gentlemen that came to my house to be there for no other reason to just the people were just there, they would just show up.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I just said, you know, if I go up to the sheriff's office and I give the media five minutes, will they go away?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so the sheriff's office and the media agreed that if I left my house and went, the drive-bys, the sitting on my lawn, the knocking on my door, and all of that would stop.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: So uh they brought a car in and we went up to the sheriff's office.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: They put me in a room while the cameras were getting ready out in the parking lot.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: The sheriff comes into the into that room and he did the same thing Christina did.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: He simply leaned against the wall and looked at his feet.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: It was ridiculous.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: I was so mad.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so they brought me out of that room.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: I chatted for a second with the media, and then they put me back into a car to drive me home.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: The sheriff then puts his head into the car amongst the media and the cameras and says, I'm so sorry for your loss.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: Closes the door, and that was the last time I ever spoke to that sheriff.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: He never came around or said anything again.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: So they drove me home and I uh my mom and dad were there.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Gracie was napping and whatever.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and so that week he was killed on a Tuesday and he was buried on the next Tuesday.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so that week was so surreal because the next day I have all of the traffic guys coming in to talk about a procession.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: They are wanting to know how many cars, who's gonna be in it.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we need a head count, all this stuff that they are asking me questions on.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm rifling through photos trying to get together because there's a guy who wants to do a video montage up on the big screen, and so I've got photos out and all of this chaos.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: And they're giving me the rundown on the procession, and I said, I'd like to have a mass for Bill.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: Grew up Catholic, went to parochial schools my whole life, Italian, it's a thing.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so I actually got an eye roll.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: No, we can't do that.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: We don't have time, we have to be at this place.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: We've got, you know, to close off off ramps, we're shutting down the freeway, it's a big deal, and you know, take what you can get, kind of thing.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, No, we're going to have a mask for Bill.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: So with a big sigh and some eye rolling, I was able to get them to agree to do such things, and they had to change up whatever.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: But they agreed to it.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then the next day I have people from uh the sheriff's office come in and say, we would like to bury Bill in his honor guard uniform.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: So now I'm rifling through all of Bill's stuff and I'm starting to get super upset because I just feel like I I just feel like he was just here and this is not okay, and then I don't know what to say.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: But I the overwhelming idea that I need to maintain my composure and I need to do what I'm being told because this is how it goes.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: This is how it goes, and I should listen to the police, right?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm rifling through his stuff and I give them all of his honor guard uniforms so that they can take it.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then uh so Friday comes along and we've got the funeral going.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: We've got people sitting at my counter asking me questions about benefits and things like that, and telling me I should be excited about the fact that there's educational benefits for the girls, and you know, we've got all sorts of things going on.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I've given them the information for the funeral home, and Bill has arrived to the funeral home on Friday.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: So um he died on a Tuesday, and Friday is the very first time I get to see him.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: So my mom and I drive to the funeral home, and I'm given a set amount of time to be with him because they need to get him changed, and the honor watch is starting.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: At a particular time.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: And again, it had to do with the cameras and the image and everything not family related.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm feeling rushed and I'm stressed out.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: But I go into this ridiculously dark and gloomy room with drapes.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: And there he is laying on this slab.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: And he's got a drape over him, a big giant drape, and he's got these tiny little tables under his elbows so that his hands rest nicely on his stomach.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: And he looked awful.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: He had been through the medical examiner's song and dance and all that has to do when you have uh that kind of situation.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then, of course, the funeral home had already gone ahead and done their thing.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: And when I touched his chest, I could have easily been touching a table.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: It was solid and gross.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I tried to find a place on his body that I could touch and feel him, and there was nothing because his he had makeup on and he looked like total shit.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: And he was cold and solid and disgusting.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I was pissed.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know why I was pissed.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: I was just so angry overall at this point.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: So here's where I jump ahead.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: And the when the DA gave me the book of uh the binder that explained everything having to do with the investigation, it came with some color photos of everything down at Ryalea.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the things that made me so angry was that down at Ryalea, Bill looked perfect.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: He had one dot on his temple.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: That was it.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: If I could give a message to anybody that would listen, and this is a huge piece of my speaking to uh agencies around Oregon, is that if an if somebody wants to see them, let them.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: If they have, if they can ask that question, please, if you can, grant them that wish because he was perfect.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: He was laying there.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: If I would have been able to go down there and touch him, he would have still been Bill.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: He looked so much better than he did with makeup and all the stuff they had to do with him at the Emmy's office wasn't done yet.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: And he was just fine.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: He was just laying there.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: He looked like he was asleep.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: It was perfect.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I really wish I would have been able to say my goodbyes then.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I left the funeral home on Friday, and I was just distraught because of that.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: My last memory of him was him, and he was such a handsome guy.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I went home, and the next day, Saturday, I had the entire SWAT team home from Ryalea now and at my house in the living room on the floor, like a giant puddle of mush.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: They were distraught about Bill.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: They were distraught about the situation.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_02: And they were also extremely distraught that they were seeing how things were being handled and worrying about their own families in regard to a situation and how the admin was handling it.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so their worlds were, their heads were spinning, utter chaos.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: And at that time, you know, there were they were trying to express a sorrow for him, but it was they were so involved in their own chaos as as well.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: They said, We we have to fix this, we have to make sure this doesn't happen again.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_02: We need to hold people accountable, we need to make this right, and just all sorts of things that were going on in their world.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: They were just so sad.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: And uh they stayed for a while and and then uh they left.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um Sunday came and went.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: Monday.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: Tuesday was the day of the funeral, and I don't remember much from that day.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: I do remember uh going.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: I I remember the people along the highway.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: I remember the firemen above the overpasses with their flags.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: It melted my heart.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very grateful for all the media footage that I was given after the fact because I actually, that's all I really have to do is watch that to be able to see what it was all about.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: But what I do remember is a lot of negativity.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's the part that breaks my heart.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: And my pay it forward to the world would be to make sure that doesn't happen to somebody again.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm sitting there, we sat in, you know, at the at the uh service um in the at New Hope Church forever waiting for it to start for everybody to get seated.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: So then they parade us out there, and that's fine.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then who's the first to get up and talk is that effing sheriff.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I couldn't believe it because I just didn't like him.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so he proceeds to say nothing more than what you would expect somebody to say when he was trying to make sure that um all the uh investigators were hearing.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, are you talking at a funeral or are you trying to make sure that you're not in trouble for what had happened?
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so he sits there and talks about how this is just like a cancer.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's very unfortunate, but nobody's really to blame.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: I just sat there.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sitting in the first row going, I want to go home.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then some guy gets up and talks or sings a song that didn't matter to anybody.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then the worst part though was that the pallbearers were the SWAT guys.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: If you had asked me who I wanted at the pallbearers, it wouldn't have been the SWAT guys.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: But dang, did they look sharp, all in the same uniform, going up and carrying Bill's casket?
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: More of what I felt like was well, let's just make sure we're gonna keep these wagons circled and the SWAT's unified and blah, blah, blah.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm watching these SWAT guys, and you know, one in particular is not somebody who was terribly fond of Bill, and now he's carrying Bill's casket.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just beside myself, and to this day, it still pisses me off.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so the course of the day went on, and all the ceremony, the pomp and circumstance, it happened as it should, and I was very emotionally charged.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they even had, they even allowed Life Flight to do a flyover at the gravesite, which was beautiful.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: So that was the end of um a chaotic week, and then the very next day, everybody at the sheriff's office was supposed to go back to work.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: And they were told by supervisors to get over it.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's done, move on.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: And there was a gentleman who was just preoccupied in his own thoughts and actually went through a stoplight without stopping.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: He just wasn't prepared to be at work at all.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and so those poor souls that went back to work were very emotionally charged and shouldn't have been.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, and later uh I found uh the concerns of police survivors.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, they reached out to me uh a couple months later and said, you know, we have been trying to get a hold of you since this happened.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: And this is a group of people that have all lost someone in the line of duty.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: That that is it.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so they, but they were being shielded from me, and they would have been such an asset through the course of the couple months it took them to track me down.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, because they weren't given any information from the sheriff's office, they had to do it themselves, and I would have very much loved to hear from them sooner than later.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: But the sheriff's office, they got this, they don't need any outside help.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: She's fine.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and so that's when I became um a member of the Concerns of Police Survivors, and that's when I started to really hear that I was not the only one that had traveled a road that was very um sad.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: And uh you you didn't walk away from the experience of burying your loved one with a lot of warm and fuzzy.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was anger, it was blunders, it was people who didn't know.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and so that's when we really started to learn that that the family was kind of just pushed down and set aside and and just you know, just go along with it, family.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: We got this kind of thing.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: And and um, and so that flame is still inside me 25 years later of um have my last moments with Bill, and that's just truly unfortunate.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that um man, there's so much to unpack there.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we could we could go on for six days.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: And for again, for those people who've never been in this lifestyle or never walked this lifestyle, what she's saying may sound like, oh, it's just the the course of doing business, you know, you're moving down the list, and this is what happens, and it's a highly organized system.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: It is the most disorganized system, and there's so much that you experienced that just re-traumatized you over and over and over again, even in the first 24 hours.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, uh, and I I think we're gonna we're gonna skip to the end and then we're gonna come back and ask some follow-up questions, okay?
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to keep going with this chaos.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there was so much that could have been done differently that would have protected you, protected your family, protected the integrity of the case, the, you know, without looking like your pomp and circumstance for a video camera.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I have my own feelings about law enforcement today, and we'll talk about those maybe at the end.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's not the same as it was when I started 20, you know, three years ago in 2002.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's a completely different feeling, and I I I think you may be on the same page with me or at least similar.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: But let's talk about that chaos after the fact.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the image versus taking care of the people, all of the shit that went wrong.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: Walk me through that, how it impacted you, and ultimately we're gonna talk about how it's kind of reshaped your life.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it really has.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: The the fact that you just didn't take a moment to to think about the long-term effects.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's the interesting thing, it's it really was about an image that they were trying to portray.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_02: It was, it was, they were so, it was so obvious that it was about uh protecting their own, so much so that they actually promoted the person that was in charge that day from sergeant to lieutenant as some sort of we're fine, he did, there's no wrong, it's all good.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, just trying to throw bones to the to the agency in regard to um the fact that it'll be fine, just hold on.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: And and um it was really interesting because I mean this I'm now I'm going off topic, I'm sorry, but uh so this sheriff actually left the off left stepped down in uh December.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: So he only lasted about three months, and um, and then his under-sherheri was more of the same.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately, it was the good old boy system.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: And that's just the that's just how it was back then.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: It was it there was no mental health, and and I'm so glad that's a thing now.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: And there was no caring about your people, it was just rub some dirt on it and get back out there, and and um, and so I'm sitting there trying to do the same.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: And it's I think that when I try to explain um my situation, I automatically want to tell people that I'm speaking to that I'm not better than you.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: You've all experienced death.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: And and I know everybody in this room, whomever, has lost a loved one.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just trying to explain to you that imagine if you need peace and calm and you need to gather your thoughts and you need to have a moment, you don't get that.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: You have people on your front porch, you have um people wanting to take pictures of you, you have people in and out, you have no idea when the door is gonna um somebody's gonna knock on the door and need something and you and ask you questions.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: And and so you're you're walking around with a smile on your face.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember one of the news reporters when I went up to the sheriff's office, she um that night when I saw her on TV, she um was speaking to the camera about how I must be in shock.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: How on earth could I have such composure?
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_02: She just couldn't believe it.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so she just she attributed my my uh demeanor as as I must be in shock and I can't, I can't handle myself.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: And that was that was all I wanted was to maintain was to show people that um I I keep it together.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't gonna fall apart.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: Falling apart happened in the middle of the night by myself in the dark.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_02: That never happened in public.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I was distraught now because somebody's accusing me of something while I'm trying to put on a performance, right?
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so all of this stuff that doesn't happen to normal people in the quiet of their home when they've lost a loved one.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and I was really I was really pissed off at Bill for leaving me and um with these two tiny humans.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was mad at him as well.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so there was that weirdness, because obviously he didn't have a choice, but it's just one of those moods you go through.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, it could I just feel like I see, I see I'm envious of these survivors who have a uh have a chief or a or a sheriff that are walking hand in hand with them and and understanding and being a part.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: And there's chiefs that'll bring the survivors to the memorials every year.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't even I didn't have honor guard when I went back to DC.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't have any escort.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: They were there, but they weren't there for me.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I see these escorts that come and they help you, and they I mean there was just there was just no care to the humans.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was just a show.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: It was so ridiculous.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: I can't even tell you.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: What is what is your feelings on the notification, the way that went uh with Christina, I believe.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: How could have that gone better?
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: What would have you seen, what have you liked to have seen different?
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: The biggest part is you need your human that you need to prepare for that event with those forms in the file that say who to bring.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: And and the conversation needs to happen with the people at home about how this should happen.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_02: Don't sit down with your uh sergeant doing your annual review and and figure out that you think you know who it is because that person might not be who your person wants at their front door.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: Ask them.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: But more importantly, it needs to be somebody who can do it.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's if if it's too close, that person is not capable.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_02: They are gonna be no help at all.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I think part of the issue is that nobody would answer my questions.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so um the notification, I they needed to notify me.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_02: I get that, and so they came when they did.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: But at some point, you know what?
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_02: You guys screwed up, you screwed up bad, and so let's just put that aside for a minute, because you screwed up and it's gonna come out, get over it.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about how we can uh talk to Corey in a reasonable manner in regard to the questions she's going to have, and let's be a little more prepared about how we're gonna address this.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_02: And it I've seen it, I've seen the people who have been in a situation that they just put it aside and they took care of the survivors and they didn't worry about the image and everything else.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so don't have some dude from the sheriff's office who's not gonna give me any information and maybe it's somebody I don't like.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: Let's figure this out and let's figure it out ahead of time.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's great advice.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um as far as the responsibility and accountability of the sheriff's office, did they ever accept accountability and responsibility for what occurred or did they continue to shirk it?
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, they they just decided that there was well, it's so the bottom line was the conclusion was is there was too many hands involved for any one person to be in trouble.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_02: And if you see my if you see Facebook on the day Bill was killed between, you know, people posting his photo and saying, you know, we still miss you, blah, blah, blah.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: The amount of people that still say that from the sheriff's office retired, probably, how wrong it was, how how botched that was, and how what a just an injustice it was to just sit there and just wash our hands of it and go away.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: It led to one of the largest mass exoduses of the sheriff's office ever.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_02: They people quit, people retired, but they just they just didn't want to be a part of it.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_02: And and so you could tell that it's it's not just an angry widow.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's you watched everybody agree that they screwed up and they just they treated everybody, everybody like crap, except you know, and just so the image would be.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so the unfortunate thing was the the super sad part of it all was that everybody wanted to be angry at somebody, and they wanted to, they decided that it would be a great idea to use the kid that actually pulled the trigger as their scapegoat.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so that would be the guy that they would direct their anger to.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_02: And it was extremely obvious.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't think he lasted much longer after that.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: He actually left the sheriff's office because of it, but they definitely targeted him to use him as the punching bag so that they could actually direct some sort of finger pointing to make themselves feel better.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it was it was terrible because um I actually got a call from his mom about she called to apologize for my loss and she called to say how you know upset her son was and all of that.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_02: But she was herself just an emotional wreck, as you can imagine.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_02: So this this kid shows up at my house.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_02: They actually um they actually brought him to my house.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_02: He came in a vehicle with maybe two to three other uh deputies.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm I'm not sure why they decided, you know, to do that.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_02: It was kind of strange because when you saw this guy, he was he was a total wreck.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I didn't I don't think he wanted to be there.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think he was just another puppet in the in the show.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's another thing.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's another interesting thing.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_02: It was so sad.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_02: And and so he I opened the door and I knew him immediately because he was this he was this guy with just the reddest eyes.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_02: He'd been crying for days.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't say a word.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_02: I just gave him the biggest hug and I just said, I'm so sorry.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and I felt for the first time though, with him, I felt I was doing something right, and I felt someone that was hurting just as bad as me.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and you know, he just was I I mean, can you even imagine the friendly fire?
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_02: It was just it was a train wreck.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so um I talked to him for a few minutes, but there's I just I wanted him to go because there was nothing to talk about, and idle chit-chat was not good for either of us.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_02: So it was I actually just kind of stayed in the entryway, so it was going to be brief, but I needed him to know that I was okay with him, and that was huge for him, I could tell.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_02: So that was really, really good.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: Corey, when a tragedy like this happens, it's usually not one mistake, you know, it's a chain of events that occur.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we spoke about all the hands, you know, all the cooks in the kitchen, if you will, on that day.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: But what have you learned about all the things that went wrong and what changes have come, or what changes do you hope will come from this so another family won't experience this?
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I've I I think that was my my therapy would be the formation of the Oregon Fallen Badge Foundation.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_02: That the mission of that organization in 2011 was a group of honor guard people that got together and said, we're seeing so many blunders, we are seeing the family getting trampled, we're seeing so many issues arise from how we're conducting funeral services.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so they're just talking about the day of.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_02: Bill was his FTO, and so he's very much in, he's very much feeling my same hurt.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then um other people in the organization have also felt their own pain in losing uh officers of their own.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_02: The idea that we are here to put on a funeral for you, should you wish, is just a drop in the bucket, as far as I'm concerned, because I'm seeing how healthy it is to speak to these uh departments, tell them how we can prevent this day from happening this way.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_02: And the size of the classes grows, but also what I think is really important is that the variety of people showing up to these classes is changing.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_02: Our most recent class had two city managers, it had people from human resources, and it had agencies.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think we had six or seven agencies showing up for this event that was down in southern Oregon.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_02: And that just shows you that our um the departments want to see change.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_02: They they know it's important, they know that preventative measures are so impactful.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so speaking to this makes all the difference in the world to me.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's and so when I conclude, when I tell them the same story that I just told you, um, I thank them for listening because I to talk about Bill is so cathartic to me.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_02: And to know that all these youngsters that didn't know him and his story will probably be more careful.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_02: They may go home and they may talk with their humans about how they can make sure that um they're not you know leaving somebody behind.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so this the Oregon Fallen badge has um has healed me.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_02: I get to go to funerals and speak to people and say, How did we do?
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_02: And the family says, that was amazing, and I know that they mean it.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_02: So that makes my heart so full.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how do you feel?
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: When I came into law enforcement 21 years ago, no, more than that now, 25 years ago, whatever it is.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there was this, we're a family, we're a thin blue line, we always have your back, we're always gonna take care of you, you know, we're gonna be there for your family, blah, blah, blah.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I believed that for a long time.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's not the same feeling I have now, but what is your feeling on that whole rhetoric and that idea?
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_02: We um the gone but not forgotten wants to make me puke.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_02: I don't, I I hate when people say that because it is so far from the truth.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_02: The there are people that it and you know, honestly, there's a lot of it has to do with it's a job.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_02: You go home and you have your life, and so you know, you can't expect everybody to drop what they're doing and bow to the east every time you walk by.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't expect to somebody to commit to mowing my lawn once a week for the rest of their lives because they feel bad.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_02: I get that.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_02: But at the same time, I think it's really important that people think about what they say before they say it.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so don't make the promises that you're not going to keep.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_02: And don't sit there and build me a giant monument and think that's gonna make it better.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_02: Just simply be.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, when the the we have our current sheriff, the sheriff before her was the one that I've known for most of my 25 years um since Bill died.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_02: And it was the cards on the girl's birthday, and it was the cards at Christmas time, and it was um you just gotta show a little effort.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and I think that uh until you've experienced it, you just don't know.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_02: You just get busy, you go to work, you go home, and you take care of your family, and you don't really think about it.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_02: Nowadays, I think it's even worse because I feel like they've gotta they've gotta sh have someone.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_02: I just can't imagine the kid that pulled the trigger back then in this day and age, he would have been just hung out to dry and it would have been terrible.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_02: They would have tarred and feathered him, as far as I know, just from what I see now.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just such a sad state of affairs because while in one respect, I think mental health is is becoming important, but at the same time, now the upper echelon are taking the guys on the street and they're they're just saying, you know, sorry, good luck to you, boy, and and hoping that they come out good on the other end.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it's and then you wonder why you have all these people that just don't want to be in law enforcement anymore.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's just terrible.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's a really interesting thing that while the good old boy situation is wasn't necessarily healthy, they sure did, you know, like each other and take care of each other much more than than they do nowadays.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so I feel like while that is maybe not the best way to operate, they sure did, they sure did protect each other.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_02: And now it's just it's everybody's just wants to be in their own little corner.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to get to retirement and I just want to be done and you know, that kind of thing, and and just more a little self involved, I guess.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, something you mentioned that resonated with me was when we were talking about image.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_00: versus taking care of the people and him getting up, the sheriff getting up and speaking at the funeral to speak at people instead of being a part of this funeral.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think my experience with law enforcement was that family thin blue line coming out of law enforcement through the circumstances that I did, and it's all on this podcast, but coming through coming out of it with PTSD and actually having in it becoming an in an adversarial relationship with the city and with law enforcement, it has really changed my opinions on you put a dollar sign between you and that department and they're going to pick the dollar sign every single day.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, put the image between you and that funeral.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_00: They're going to pick their image every single day.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_00: That hasn't changed over the last 25 years.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I think what you're saying now is everybody is in such this little isolate if you will this little their own little corner, their own little bubble just when they get to retirement.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_00: Everything is hands off.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_00: We don't even go hands-on in the field anymore.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_00: We respond like firefighters.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_00: We go sit in the corner of a parking lot and we wait for the call to come in, we react and we go back to the corner of the parking lot because we're scared of actually doing anything that's going to get us into the liberal media of our you know Pacific Northwest because we're gonna get hung out to dry.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to get tired and feathered.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_00: And everybody goes into protection mode, self-preservation mode and and because of that people like yourself are left to survive these things, you know they they apply a bunch of practices and the notifications and bring in Christina and and fill in your house with people for 24 48 hours.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean all that is crap and it shouldn't been done and that that's not that's just re-traumatizing to you but we continue to do stuff like that.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I really hope that through the Fallen Badge Foundation and the uh concerns of police survivors through that we can get some of this education out there and it's really encouraging to hear that departments are allowing you in and you get to have this conversation um because it wouldn't have been this way 25 years ago.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_02: Right exactly I agree.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_00: So as far as you um how are you doing now?
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_00: And did you seek therapy over the years I presume what have you done to kind of heal from this as much as you can and where does that leave you today?
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_02: I never did seek formal therapy.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_02: I truly believe that because my girls were so young and that I didn't have to walk the road with you know a a potentially teenagers or whatever an older child where you had to you had to feel their loss and help them through their loss but they were they kept me busy.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_02: The day in and day out of a two month old and a two year old was filling my world and they are were my sanity and I truly believe that they helped me through that they were um just and and the fact that my family was so very close my my in October so about three weeks after Bill was killed my parents were um just completing um a build on their house in Happy Valley and the house that they were renting was the their time was up there but their house wasn't finished and so in October my parents moved in in with me and so that I had my own personal Italian chef um my dad and then when my brother would come home from college he would sleep on the on the couch and I have to tell you it was the best to have that those humans in my world and they stayed with me until February so talk about therapy I had my family right there.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_02: I could go uh I went to the I would go to the gym I worked out a lot and um and then the girls uh just grew and and occupied my time it was wonderful and so um so the other part of this was I did I did remarry and I did marry uh he was actually he and Bill were friends uh before I knew Bill and um he is a lovely human who retired from a police department here locally and um and so we've been married and we have a blended family of Lauren and Gracie and his son Steven and we're now grandparents to Steven's two little girls and uh I I have to say that you know as dorky as this sounds that my family was my therapy because I I have a pretty pretty large group here in in the Portland area.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_02: So when I when I'm tired of talking to one there's several more waiting.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us about the Fallen Badge Foundation how people can go and find that on the interwebs and then if they wanted to make a donation is that something they could do and how would they do that?
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_02: So the Oregon Fallen Badge Foundation Oregon Fallenbadge.com is out there and there is a PayPal uh you can go to on that site and uh you can also come and golf uh in September every September we have a golf tournament out at Pumpkin Ridge and that is one of the events listed on the website and the other one is our big uh gala it's a ball and auction that we have every year and it's quite spectacular down at Seven Feathers Resort in Canyonville and um all proceeds we're a 501c3 so we we're um doing all these fundraisers so that we can put on what we like to call is we put on a rock concert in seven days uh we take we take everything off the table for the agency so that they can heal we first meet with the family and the people during the course of a schedule of arranging a funeral there's one person assigned to the family there's one person that speaks to the family all questions go through that person that person will gather all of the information and relay it to back to the group that's uh coordinating the event and uh their requests are first and foremost if we can make it happen we will and uh we have a great group of volunteers yeah law enforcement officers that volunteer their time to come do these line of duty deaths and it's just it's a great it's a great organization and I'm so grateful to be a part of it.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_00: And Corey I know we've spoken about it but just recap for the listeners all of the stuff that the Oregon Fallen Badge Foundation does ahead of time preventative within the departments.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so the Oregon Fallen Badge started in 2011 and when we started it we started it with the idea that it was about honoring the fallen which it still is but we have a huge second piece of it and that is we travel the state of Oregon and we educate agencies about taking care of their own that when an officer is killed that is not the time that you should be scrambling to figure everything out.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's a three hour course and we see you know roughly in the beginning we saw maybe five people now we see about 30 to 40 people in a class and my piece of it is the why and so the other officers that present they're talking about what we do how we put on an a funeral for a fallen officer and um and all that we can do to help you get prepared for that.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much and Corey again thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story sharing your message showing hope after the fact somebody listening to this right now is going to find themselves in your position I guarantee it we have enough law enforcement and first responders listening to this so thank you so much for taking your pain and turning it into somebody else's purpose.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for that I appreciate it ladies and gentlemen that is a murders to music podcast that is rare.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_00: We don't get to have these conversations these real vulnerable conversations very often so the fact that we get to hear this and the fact we get to learn from it, we've all thought about it.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean every police officer's wife or police officer's husband dreads that phone call dreads that car pulling up in the driveway it's beat into us from day one at the academy that this could happen.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_00: That is why they're so uh hypervigilant when they're out in the field and they got their back against the wall because that's what's beat into these cops and the day that it does happen and that car pulls up when the driver the phone rings has got to be the absolute worst day of somebody's life.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_00: So Corey thank you again so much for coming out I appreciate it and ladies and gentlemen that is a murders to music podcast we're afraid of no strange to rain go rest on the mountain go to shall the crime and they you left us together wish I could see angels faces go red