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With Six You Get... · Mom Wars

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: From the front lines of The Mom Wars.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: Here's Bethany Mandel and Kara Kennedy. Hello and welcome to
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: another episode of The Mom Wars. My name is Bethany Mandel.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: I'm your only co host this week because car Kennedy
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: is still rudely on maternity leave. She gave birth like
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: three weeks ago. I was back podcasting like several days
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: after I had a baby in a car. So I
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: just think this is ridiculous at this point. But I
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: am joined by one of my dear friends who has
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: seen me give birth several times, no twice. Yeah, Katie Carney,
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: fellow mom of six readers of our sub stack, which
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: I hope you are. I referenced Katie in a recent
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: post which I forgot to send you.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Sorry somebody else did.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Really, I love it so that I'm glad I talked
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: about you nicely. You are so a mom of six, Catholic.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Your husband also works in this silly industry. He is
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: I should have checked all of these things with you.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: He's a fellow at AI, and like, what does he
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: do with The Examiner.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Now he's senior columnist. I think he writes me the
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: dime who knows who can note such things. But I
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: didn't have Tim on Oh Tim.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Also, I just really want to say he wrote two
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: fabulous books, and every pro natalist like panel or whatever,
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: I'm always on, He's always on it. Family Unfriendly was
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: the most recent one, and then what was the name
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: of the first one, Alienated America? Alienated America? And I
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: want to complain actually about that book for a second.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: I bought it on audible, thinking I would just have
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Tim's voice.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: You have no idea how many people said that. And
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: so when he wrote Family Unfriendly, he went to the
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: publish Journey said, you know, I'd like to read my
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: book for the audible, and they're like, oh, well, normally
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: we have like professionals do it. And I'm like, oh,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: I kind of like speak for a living, so it's
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: kind of my thing. Also, I'm telling these like intimate
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: stories about my children, my wife and her depression, like
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: I feel like it should be me. So he did it,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: and that stuff is hard. Have you ever done your book?
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: Non it?
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, for one week, eight hours a day
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: in this soundproof booth. And I went and visited him
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: once and it felt like silence. He like walked in
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: and like it was a soft floor and everything. And
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: one day his like stomach was grumbling or something or
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: his shirt and he had to hold a pillow for
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: eight hours so the mic wouldn't pick it up. It
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: was exhausting. I knew it was exhausting because Jonah Goldberg
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: does his and he says it's exhausting. But yeah, no,
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: it was pretty bad.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Oh that's so funny. Well that I feel bad.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: A lot of people.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: No.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: I wanted him to read it, and a lot of
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: people did, and so that was that was nice.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Because I had bought it on audible, thinking like this
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: will this while journey with me on this long car trip,
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Tim will drive with me. And then I was like,
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: this isn't Tim. I don't want this guy, I know.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: And it's kind of funny. I wish they had sometimes
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: we wish you'd go back into alienate America because a
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: lot of it's the stories of like being in these
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: bars or these meeting these people, and they're all like
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Tim Carney's stories. So you want to hear Tim Carney
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: saying it, yes, yes, yeah.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: You are super Catholic. You're actually Catholic.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: I am a practicing Catholic.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're not what what do they say, like the
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Eastern Christmas?
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's the holiday Catholics. I'm not a cafeteria Catholic.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Cafeteria that's that.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: I'm a practicing Roman Catholic. All the good, the bad,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: and the ugly. I love it. It's actually incredibly beautiful.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: And the more you practice, the more beauty you get.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: So I mean, Maria, it's true. Submit to God's wil
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: and you get a lot of beauty and grace.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: So you are one of how many? And Tim is
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: one of how many?
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: So I am number four out of eight. There's six
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: girls and two boys, and Tim is the youngest of
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: four boys.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: So you are slacking a little bit.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Growing up more differently, but also a lot of the same.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: Our parents gave us a lot of freedom in various
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: different ways, but growing up wise, you grow up very differently.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: So out of your family, what is the average number
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: of kids that your siblings have? If you're one of eight.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: Well, we still have a few that are still going
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: because they got married later in life. But one of
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: my sisters has eight kids. And then I have a
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: sister who also has six kids. She cheated, she had
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: twin boys. First so what have a cheat there? And
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: then I have two siblings with four, one with five
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: and two with five. And then my youngest brother, he
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: and his wife are just getting started, but they're a
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: little bit older, so we don't know how many they're
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: gonna have there, they're about to have their second.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so you're hitting the mean I think for
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: your family. Yes, two with five, there's the overachiever with eight.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, forty forty grandkids.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: That's incredible. That's the dream.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: No, it's it's and except for the one who lives
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: in New Jersey, we all live fairly close and see
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: each other a lot. But even when the kids were
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: little sister so the first four of us got married
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: within three years of each other, and there was always
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: three babies cooking in the wombs at the same time.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: But we drive up to New Jersey and see her.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Like all the grandkids grew up together and are pretty close.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: So that's it's been, And that's how I grew up,
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: being super close with all my cousins and greatest blessing ever.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I only have like I guess technically I
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: have four cousins. I have three on my dad's side
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: and one on my mom's side, but I didn't grow
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: up close to them, both in like geography, but also
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: just we weren't close. I've since become closer to two
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: of my cousins on my dad's side, like I just
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: went to like the bar Mitzvah for one of them,
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: but I see them every few years, Like it's not like,
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: you know, a very close situation.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Was on my mom's side, my dad's side because he
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: grew up part of his life in Panama, and a
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: lot of my cousins are farther away, so we didn't
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: see them as much, like once a year. We don't
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: meet up at my grandparents' house in Florida.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: But so I feel like a lot of people, there's
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: like two schools of thought. I feel like with people
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: who grew up in large families, people who want to
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: just do it again. And I hear from the second
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: contingent a lot, and I think it's just because complainers
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: complain so, but there's people who say, like, I would
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: never ever replicate my childhood. I was neglected, I was ignored,
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: nobody paid attention to me. I was I was parentified.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: I hear that a lot, especially from oldest girls. What
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: were your sort of thoughts.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: It just makes me laugh because my mom loves to
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: tell this story about when she had her youngest and
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: so my oldest sister was twelve and my.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: She had eight kids in twelve years.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: Eight thirteen years my old I have an older brother,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: older than my sister, but not by much. But yeah,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: so eight and thirteen years, which she would have to
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: race to beat my sister to the nursery when my
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: youngest sister was crying in the middle of the night,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: and she'd be like, back off, she's mine. And because
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: my sister just wanted to like hold the mother, yes,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: and she's like, no, you have to go to bed,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: you have to go to school. I don't know. I mean,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: I know, we grew up. It is so funny. Growing
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: up we're like, oh, we just have eight kids. I
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: feel like I'm like that. Now I'm like, oh, we
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: have six. We kind of crapped out early, like I
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: feel like, and then it's you know, in other places,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: I'm like six and people are like, oh my god.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: And then other you our Catholic bubble world, I'm like,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: so six, you know, were slackers. But yeah, no, I
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: know a lot of people who come from big families
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: and they don't now have big families. But it's so
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, I get it, and I don't get it.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, me and my siblings wanted it. We had
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: a beautiful childhood that was really poor, Like we did
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: not have a lot. My dad was a government employee
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: and sending us all to private schools. So for the
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: younger three they had like learning disabilities that ended up
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: like getting better grades and all of us and like
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: getting scholarships to college. So I don't know what happened there.
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: But.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: They you know, we didn't we didn't go on big vacations.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: We didn't have anything. My parents said, know a lot.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: We had used cars, we had the house that we
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: had based on a total miracle. But it was wonderful,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: and it was wonderful because our parents gave us a
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: lot of freedom that when we were bored, we were
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: outside with our siblings. We lived in a neighborhood with
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: a bunch of other kids, and we just roamed the
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: mean streets of Falls Church, Virginia. And we wanted that
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: for our kids, and we're all trying to give it
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: to them in one form of another. But you know,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: we didn't have I mean, I think we don't have
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: We didn't grow up with the things that have such
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: a huge impact on our kids' childhood. Like we didn't
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: have travel sports like the way they have it. We
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: don't have social media, we don't have these people portraying
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: this perfect life constantly in our faces. Like I maybe
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: like three kids in my class had ever been to
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Disney World when we were and I went to private schools. Yeah,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: it wasn't like people weren't spending an obscene amount of
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: money for all these things for their kids to do
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: all these things. We grew up having cast roles, you know,
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: and like now I don't do castles. I'm trying to
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: cook healthy. I'm like, my food budget is blown constantly
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: because I'm trying to give my kids healthy foods. They
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: didn't care about that the right, right, you get shit.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Like so, I think there's so many more things now
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: that make it harder to envision your life with a
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: bigger family because you feel like you're depriving your kids
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: of something because then they're like, my friend is doing this,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: this and this, and you're like, I don't know the
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: money pus Like my youngest wants to go horseback like
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: horseback lessons. I'm like, it's not gonna happen. One day
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: you'll meet a nice friend who has a horse and
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: maybe she'll let you ride it, and your life will
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: be fine if you don't become a horseback rider. Yeah. Yeah,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: the same thing with funds. Like, my oldest has a smartphone.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: She bought it for herself when she turned eighteen.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's my plan too.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: They have dumb phones. We do believe in technology to
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: a certain extent. They do not all have laptops. They
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: take turn using the desktop and sometimes my laptop when
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: they have to do school work.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: We also chose.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Schools where they don't get a lot of work on computers, right, right.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: So.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: It's easier to do that. You know. There's some summers
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: like this summer, we're not going on vacation, probably go
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: camping maybe, you know, just butet's not there.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: It's not good.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're going to run around with their friends. My
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: kids made bank glass summer with lemonade stands and they
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: have a last Yeah there you go.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I referenced you in a piece because we
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: met when I was pregnant with our fourth So you
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: told me the story which I tell all the time
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: and I'm sorry, Yeah, I know.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: I saw Katherine Bercollock yesterday and I was like, you
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: did not defend my honor with Bethany.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Yes, so you told this joke when we were hanging
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: out the first time we ever hung out and I
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: was pregnant with our fourth and you said, the only
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: quality time I get with a kid one on one
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: is at the emergency room.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: You were kidding lot time. But yes, yeah, I wasn't.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: I wasn't. I wasn't like it was a joke. Yes,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: And obviously I get like alone time with other kids,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: but I started like not being upset when I ended
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: up in the emergency room with that kid with the crew,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: because it was not just that it was alone time.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: It was like a sweet time where I could like
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: mother just that one kid, and there wasn't some other
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: kid being like, hey, it looks like you're having some
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: quality time, Like yeah, but I mean you make time
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: for the kid, you know, yes.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: I And I'm an only child and of a single mother,
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: so it was woo. It's a lot. There's a lot
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: of what's the word I'm looking for, codependency, That's the
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: word I'm looking for. There was a lot of codependency.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: And I'm not I'm not being mean to my mom
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: because my mom was. It was very much like a
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Laura l I Rory Gilmour situation, very loving, but really
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: just too codependent. And that was my picture of like
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: ideal motherhood. And when you said that to me, it
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: like rocked me to my core. Perhaps also because I was,
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: you know, hormonal and newly pregnant and everything, and having
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: a fourth, which is an absurd number, like four was
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: already a crazy number, and I was. I went home
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: and I said to Seth, this is it. We're done.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: I can't not have that one on one relationship is
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: already impossible, Like I already have the girl and the
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: two boys, and I'm not getting enough one on one
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: time with anyone. What are we thinking adding a fourth?
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: That's it. We can't go five to six?
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: And then I did you did? I? Did you know?
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: The funny thing is that you start learning when the
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: especially as the kids are getting older, they don't want,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: they don't need the one I wanted time with you,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: but builds their memories and that found it's their time
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: with their siblings. Yeah, you want to spend time with
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: the siblings and a lot of times at the end
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: of the night all lie in bed, and particularly my
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: two youngest that's the time where they come and they
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: curl up with me and we'll play like the New
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: York Times puzzle games or we you know, be silly
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: and stuff and we have sweet moments. Then that's when
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: like my teenagers come and they if they need to
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: talk about something, they shut the door and they PLoP
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: down on my bed and we'll have conversations and stuff.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: So it can make it happen. Yeah, it does happen,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: but I mean half the time now I'm like, Hi,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: I'm your mom, Please come talk to me. How are you?
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: And they're like yeah, yeah, you know.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: So that's how my boys are. That's no, that's not true.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: That's how my older two boys are. My girls love
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: the one on one time and we do it like
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: we figure it out. I brought. So my oldest daughter
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: goes to Sleepway Camp. A couple of my kids do.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: She goes to Sleepway Camp and made friends with everyone
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: there obviously as she does. And of course they all
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: are from New York, New Jersey, and so this is
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: bot Mitzvah year, and so it's just she's twelve. Yeah, yeah,
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: so I'm constantly bringing her to her friends bot Mitzva's
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: in New Jersey. I think this was number four that.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: I've don't have to go to all of them.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: So I actually said no to the first one. I
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: was like, I can't do Long Island mid June. That's
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: just not something I can do. So that was the
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: first one I said no to. But this so we
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: went to her. It's like her best friend from camp,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: and so I drove up with the two girls. My
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: oldest daughter spent the day with her friends from camp,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: and then I had a special mommy daughter day with
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: the younger girl and we went out to dinner. We
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: went to the Museum of Natural History, like it was
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: really fun. And this morning I woke up crazy early
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: because I co hosted morning radio here sometimes and the
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: morning is that I'm not co hosting, I'm still awake
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: at six am and five am, unfortunately. And I was like,
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: I could go to home deepot and make a cup
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: of my key and my cleaning lady needs to come
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: into my house when I'm gone next week. By the
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: time this episode is released, I will be home, and
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: so I was like, I could go to home depot
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: at six thirty in the morning. And my fifth who
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: is my mama's boy, had woken up because he heard
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: my footsteps go by and he has like antenna years
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: for mama, and so he came with me to home
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: depot at six thirty in the morning.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: You know, it's so funny. Growing up, that was what
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: my dad would do, these little dates with us, like hey,
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: let's go. We'd go and make a visit to our
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Catholic church and then like we'd get ice cream or like, hey,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: I have to go to home depot, grab a kid
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: to go to home depot, going to Giant to pick
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: something up. And he don't think a lot of people
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: appreciate well one like don't put on the music or
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: put on the music low so you can that's where
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: a lot of conversations with your kids happen. Yeah, amazing
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: the top box, you know, like birds and the bees
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: are great conversations and they get you know, grab a
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: little treat from the candy section for them on you
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: and like that's the thing, Like that makes a kid
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: so happy, and getting them a pack of gum makes
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: them thrilled, you know, And the kids go home and
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: he's the pack of gum nobody else does. And the
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: conversations you have, those one on one conversations are amazing
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: and they love it.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Ben Sas and I'm Chris Stirewalt. And this
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: is not dead yet. We're all dying, but some of
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: us have been brought face to face.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: With that reality.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: However long each of us have to do it though.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: We all want to live a good life, one with meaning,
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: love and joy, and our guests are here to help
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: us do exactly that.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Now available for download and streaming at ricochet dot com.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Ricochet Join the Conversation. I was driving my daughter to
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: another bought mitzvah a couple weeks ago, but it was,
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: thank god, it was a local one and we had
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: like a very serious conversation. Actually I had never I
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: had never told her how my father passed away narrator
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: it was suicide. And she's twelve, and so that was
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: just like not a conversation I really wanted to have
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: with my kids. Despite being like really an open book
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: about everything. That was just one street that I didn't cross.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: And she asked me to point blank in the car.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: And it was my birthday and I was like, oh,
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: a great but a great night driving you all around
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Montgomery County talking about how my dad killed himself.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: Sure, it feels like it's for kids. It feels like
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: enough for me too. It feels like a safe space.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: They talking, They don't have to make eye contact, that's it.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Or they can be looking out, they can think about
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: it and they you know, and it's I mean, man
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: drive around with their kids. I mean, I guess that's
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: one of the beauties of travel sports. You get to
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: drive around with your kids a lot.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: Do your kids do travel sports? No? I was like that,
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: I don't think you can have more than two kids
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: and do travel sports. It's really one or the other.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Some Actually, I do know a couple families who have bigger,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: more kids than we do, that have a couple of
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: their older kids and travel sports and they have their
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: big bands Catholic assault vehicles as we call them, and they,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: you know, make a day of it. The whole family
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: goes or you know, just one parent goes.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: With There's nothing I would like less than.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: To spend watching my kids play sports.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: No, and so this is something nice but no, but
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: this is something that I love about you because you
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: modeled for me having a big family like I up
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: where everyone had two kids. And Jen fil Wiler does
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: a super deeper well too, and she was a huge
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: role model for me because I'm not a baby person.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: I'm not a Pinterest mom who like our house is
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: neat and orderly. I don't. I'm not. I'm not super
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: maternal in some ways. Like there's some ways where I am.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Like if a kid is throwing up, for example, I'm
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Johnny on the spot, I'm there, I'm rubbing your back.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: I'm here for it.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: But I don't. I see you with your kids, and
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: I would beg to differ. Really, I think you really are.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: But the thing is, here's the thing, and I think
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: this is the problem with social media and all these
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: like mom influencers, is they have this I people start
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: having an idea of what maternal is supposed to look like. Yeah,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: and you are the best mom for your kids. You yeah,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: turn for your kids how they needed, how you can
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: give it, And this idea of like what is maternal
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: supposed to look like?
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: Right? I mean I guess I think like I'm not
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: the one who's like, let's sit on the floor and
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: play dolls together. I let's do crafts together. There's nothing
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: I want less than to follow my kid around the
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: playground or come up with a craft for them, Like
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: go do that by yourself. That is not why I'm here.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: I feed you, I rub your back, I talk to you.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: But I'm not your friend and I'm not your playmate.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: I'm so good at like eighting up. That's where I shine,
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, because they can have a talented conversation.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: Yes, but like having a nine month old in my
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: lap is my idea of hell honestly too much.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: I like the beginning stage where they like don't move
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: and they just sleep all days. This is heaven. And
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: then once they start like jerking around and you're like,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: and I don't wear my babies, So I'm like, I
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: gotta put you somewhere. What am I gonna do with you?
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Yes? Yes, I from like two and a half three
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: months to twelve months. I'm not half. It's the hardest
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: age because I don't want to just put a baby
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: in my lap.
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: Hi, how are you? I let's count to three and
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: sing songs. I would rather build my brains out than
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: do that. And that's what I mean by I'm not
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: maternal is like that I can't. I can't do it.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: But the nice thing about having a lot of kids
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: is that the older ones want too.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, my younger sister lives three blocks for me, and
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: she has four kids and her youngest is just over
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: a year, and I mean it's hard because she's homeschooling
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: seven and down, and so she'll like drop them off
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: at my house and my sixteen year old son and
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: my twelve year old son take that one year old
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: little boy and like they're playing basketball with them. They're
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: on the floor with them, and I'm like, she's like,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: you do you mind if I drop my kids off.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't even look at your kids. I
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: have baby gates, I have baby toys because I'm gonna
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: be the best grandmother ever, so I already collect stuff.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: And my teens are like, oh my god, a baby
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: and they grab them. That's great.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: My almost eleven, oh wait, he just turned eleven. My
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: eleven year old son came to me like literally right
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: before we started recording, and he was like, mom, I
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: had to dream you had another baby. It was a girl.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: And he is not subtle at dropping him. Like. The
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: older kids really do want to have a seventh, and
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: this is the longest gap we've ever had. Our youngest
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: is three and a half. We've never had a three
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: year old as the youngest before.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so our six came about two ways. My ah,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: how old was he twelve year old? No, he must
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: have been nine. Our oldest son, Charlie, I remember we're
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: getting out of her Minibandon one day and he was like,
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: I really want another baby, and I was like really,
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: And because I was exhausted, our plan for having kids
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: was mom sanity check, mom physically able to do a
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: check and financial check, and the financial check was like
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: so low down the totem pole. But it was more like,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: how crazy is Katie right now? Can't she handle that?
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: Because I have horrible pregnancies and I don't do great.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: And I was like really and he was like yeah.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: And then it was a beautiful March day, very much
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: like now actually timing wise about exactly now. And you know,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Lucy and Charlie were playing together, and Brendan and Meg
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: were playing together, and Sean was standing at the time
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: youngest in the middle of the yard and he didn't
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: have anybody and I was like, I have no baby.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Everyone needs a partner, and they do. They get along, Greep.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: That's amazing. Our sixth was a surprise. That's what my
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: that's what my kids have decided. I need to start saying,
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: because accident sounds harsh.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: He was a gift from God.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: He was a gift from God. It was not the
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: greatest of timing. It was really really hard. He was
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: by far the hardest postpartum because I had a three
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: year old who had broken her arm the night before
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: the birth, remember that.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: And she didn't even have a cast on yet, right.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: No, she had broken it the night before, and we
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: didn't know she had broken it until I was already
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: in labor.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: I was sitting on the couch there for while.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and she was inconsolable because she had two broken arms,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: two broken bones.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: In her arm. I need to leave you because I
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: need to go photograph your mom. I'll be right.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: But Seth had to come down because she was so upset,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: and so our oldest was basically my doula.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: He was barely there because he had to be with
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: her because she was in a lot of bay because
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: she had two broken bones.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, birth, can you take care of the hospital now?
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: Yah, So we brought her the next day. We should
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: have honestly called you. Oh no, wait, you had to
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: go out of town, right, I.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Wasn't even living in Maryland anymore.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Remember You're like, I'm in labor and you had gone.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: You go so fast. I was like, I'm just gonna
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: drive to Silver Spring and then I showed up and
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: you're like and I was like, I'm gonna be around.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Just call me when you're ready.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: You're the best. And that was so hard because it
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: was the week between Christmas and New Year's and no
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: one was around or they had the flu. Yeah, everyone
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: had the flu that week.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: So when you said the timing was bad and it
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: was so hard. The one thing that I always think
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: about when people talk about oh I can't have any
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: kids or parenting, the wholy parenting thing, right, who told
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: you life was easy?
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: I know?
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Who told you that you're not going to have to
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: struggle and sacrifice? And I mean, especially if you're a Christian,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: and like you're a practicing Christian, our whole, like belief
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: is around a dude who died on the cross for
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: you to get to heaven. And we're constantly being told
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: we need to be Christ Like, So like, what part
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: of your life did you think that you it was
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: going to be smooth sailing and no sacrifices and no hardship,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Like that's literally who we are as people, I mean,
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: and I think in the Jewish tradition too, I mean,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: it's like, hello, we're exiled, we're suffering, Like.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: No Jews complain, Like what we.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: Do, We suffer, we sacrifice, but there's a much joy.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: And I think that people don't talk about all these
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: little joys because it's an everyday thing, right right, every
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: day little miracles with their kids. We kind of take
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: for granted, these like all these little joys, these things
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: that like when this maybe finally stops crying and just
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: passes out on you and you're like, I've never been
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: happier in my whole life. Like, well, these little things.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: You don't talk about that because it's weird to talk
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: about that kind of stuff NonStop.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, looking for people to commiserate with the hard stuff.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Yep. So, so she was three and then I had
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: a seventeen month old. But now fast forward and this
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: is what really gives me pause. I'm like, we never
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: like it was really bad timing for another reason that
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: my book had just come out and I was editing
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: it when I was newly pregnant and so exhausted and
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: I physically was at my limit, and I had to
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: have Seth edit the last chapter because I was like,
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: I'm going to die, like I need to sleep or
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: I'm going to die.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Anyway, what probably did a better job than you?
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And I didn't even look at it. I
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: was like I want, I don't, I can't. I trust you,
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: just do it. And then I read the chapter and
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: I was like, yay, you did a good job. So
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: that was that. And then it came out when he
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: was a newborn, and I flubbed the rollout because I
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: was so physically exhausted. Yeah. Yeah, because she was sleepwalking.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: My three year old was sleepwalking, my seventeen month old,
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: my mom my fifth my MoMA's boy only wanted to
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: be on me, and the newborn needed me physically. I
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: was nursing him non stop, and I was rolling out
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: a book and it was awful. The day that the
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: book came out, I woke up at four am to
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: do Fox and Friends and I didn't get home that
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: night until midnight, and I had to have my newborn
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: with me the whole day because I was nursing him.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: It was awful. But fast forward to his he's three
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: and change and we all look at him and we
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: all say it out loud all the time. He wasn't
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: supposed to be here, but how could he not be,
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: like if we had gotten our way, all of us,
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: because no one wanted to have a sixth at that time,
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: and it was funny. I was tempted to tape, like
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: to film telling the kids that we were having a sixth,
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: but they had all expressed to me, like the older kids,
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: that they didn't want to have a sixth. That I
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: was afraid to film their reaction because I didn't want
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: it to have I didn't want it to be on camera.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: That they were really upset, and so we expected when
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: we told them we were pregnant that there would be
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: crying and arguing, and I deeply regret not filming it
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: because I have never seen them react like this, screaming
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: and crying. Running. One of my kids ran laps around
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: the dining room. He was so excited, and that's how
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: we basically feel about him now. We look at him
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: and were like, thank God, God, knew because we didn't know.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: It's another person joining their gang.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Yes, and it really is. And probably our closest sibling
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: relationship is him and the eleven year old who is
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: now saying he wants to.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: Think my kids who are super close is my sixteen
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: year old son with my nine year old daughter. Oh
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: wars him. He thinks she's hilarious, and they have they're
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: both total nerds and like talking Latin and Greek and
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: which I have nothing to do with, but of course
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: and like d and d oh, like you are such nerds.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: But I'm like, who would have thought those were the
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: two that and when he goes off to college, she's
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: going to be devastated. But yeah, no, it's such a
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: blessing these kids. Yeah, you know, I don't know, I mean,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: maybe some real jerks, but like, whoever regrets having another
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: kid I know?
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: So that's what gives me pause. But you and I
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: are in a war.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: It's day my life if you had another kid before me.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: So I'm I just turned forty like two weeks ago. Yeah,
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: and you were actually one of the only friends who
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: remembers my birthday. I'm so impressed by that. That's impressive.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: Did I've just turned forty, so I mean it's you're
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: an act of God territory now.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: It would be even like, I mean, we've done NFP
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: for years and it's worked because our youngest is turning
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: ten this year, but at this point, not not doing NFP,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: it would be it would God be like, this is.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: Happening right right.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know how, but it would happen.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm forty, it still could happen. Like no, yeah,
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: I mean I'm so.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: It's definitely wouldn't be miracle, but it would be like, but.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: It it's scary to me because I really felt like
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: I took my fertility for granted up until this point.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: And also I get pregnant very easily, thank God. I've
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: had you know, not easy pregnancies because pregnancy is terrible,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: but you know, nothing has happened. I've never had like,
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: you know, I have had miscarriages, but they were really
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: yeah they were an MBD. Yeah, and I wasn't. I
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: wasn't like, you know, I wasn't that upset by them
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: because I'm a sociopath. Sorry, you know. I was like, oh,
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: all right, well.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: I would I Actually, my biggest fear of getting pregnant.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: Now I was having a miscarriage.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's physically very hard. I both
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: my miscarriages were on the early side. There was one
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: that was like super early was I was like six weeks,
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: and the other one was like nine so nothing. Yeah,
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: I mean that was physically that one hurt. But and
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: that one actually I got. I had a miscarriage the
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: day I bought my a minivan. I had two kids,
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: and we had decided to buy a minivan separate from
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: being pregnant, and but it just so happened that I
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: the car was delivered the day I was having a miscarriage,
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: and I was I remember I was in my in
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: my driveway, literally doubled over and like things. It was
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: very not great, and I was home alone with the
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: two kids who were young. It was like one in
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: two and a half and the guy I'm signing doubled
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: over and I took a picture of me and the
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: minivan and I'm smiling, and I posted it on Facebook
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: and every single comment was ready for number three and
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: I was like that quite, that's quite.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: So that was that was that was a memory from
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: that miscarriage.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: This is a young Culter. Welcome to my Ricochet podcast
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: and Coulter every week on Ricochet. You're home to center
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: right conversation.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Hey, that was pretty good.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: So a lot of times you talk about when we
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: talk about big families, it's like the mom because it's
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: a huge thing for us, but a lot of it
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: is marrying a good guy who can handle it, not
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: even handle it, like if you have a lot of kids,
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: a little who's like I was thinking of, you know,
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: you know a lot of people looking to get married
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: and you know, starting out or you hear people complaining
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: about being parents and stuff, and I'm like, don't marry
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: an asshole. Yeah, Mary, how he treats you when you're
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: dating and who he is as a person, that's how
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: he's going to be as a dad.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: And I think you and I both got really lucky
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: that we married guys who are amazing. Yes, my sisters
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: hate me because I'm like Tim brings me coffee in
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: bed every morning. I am not a morning person. And
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: we had a deal which we didn't ever talk about.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: I just worked with their personalities. He is not a
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: night person unless he's like partying with friends, but like
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: he goes to bed early. I like staying up, so
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: I would anything having to do with kids, sick, getting
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: up the middle of night, all through the night until
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: like five am. That's me. I wake up. I hear everything.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: He sleeps through it. Five am, roals, my brain shuts up.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: I don't hear it. He gets up and he's on.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really funny. Yeah, I mean, Seth is I
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: mean at this point, we're both working full time. Say
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: that again, we're both tired now He's just yes, yeah,
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: so we're both working full time, and it's just we're
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: just always working. That's that's it, and it's it's so
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: nice knowing that I have a partner who will just
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: pick up the ball and doesn't really need to be
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: asked or told or carry resentment. He just he does
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: the thing. And he is such an incredible dad in
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: the ways that I'm not good. For example, with the crafting.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: For example, he has a whole craft cabinet in his office,
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: in his physical office, and he was building it's called
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: the base on Mgdash. It's like the Holy Temple in Jerusalem.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: He was at some point like building a bass on
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: Magdash with the kids, where they had these like wooden
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: blocks that they were gluing together, and I'm like, I
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: want nothing to do with glo sticks or craft like,
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: I don't want it. I don't want it in the house,
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: and he just and he doesn't. The thing I love
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: about him and what I need is that he doesn't
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: ever hold anything against me, for example, perfect, perfect example.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: The thing I complain about him is that he is
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: too nice, but it works out in my favor very frequently.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: We only had one house key, and for a while
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: we had no house key. Yeah, so this is where
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: I was this morning at home people, but making another
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: house key and because my cleaning lady needs it. And
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: so for a really long time we had no house
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: key and we were just like not locking our house
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: when we were all gone, and we have a ferocious dog,
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: and then we and then he found one recently and
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: we were like, one house key, we have to keep
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: it safe. And so last night I'm so exhausted. I'm
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: in bed. I feel sick. I've been awake since foe.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: I am because I was on the radio. I was
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: doing the majority of the parenting yesterday and I was like,
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: I need you to find the house keys so I
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: can make a copy of it. Tomorrow morning at home
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: depot and he's looking all around the house. He's like,
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: got a flash light out. And then he comes in
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: and I'm in bed and he's like, it was on
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: your key chain. Yeah, And I was like, great, thanks
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: for finding it. And you could tell that he was
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: bubbling and he's like, Okay, good night then and I
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: was like, hey, honey, thanks for finding it. And that's
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: it and that's that will be it. And I know
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: that it's not going to come up five, you know,
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: five days in the future and he'll just throw it
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: at me like you didn't even know what's on your
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: key chain. He doesn't. That is not him and that's
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: what I need. Yeah, So he's a mench. I love him.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: But my only complaint is that he is too nice.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: But you know, no one's perfect. Amazing. Oh, I wanted
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: to talk about one other thing. So your Instagram handle,
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: which no one should follow you because you're not going
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: to accept it. Yeah, but it is I think the
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: perfect encapsulation of like your parenting philosophy is a happy struggle.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, a happy struggle. We started out, you know, back
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: in the day when we were all you know, early
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: two thousands in the blogspot dot com, you know, and
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: the New Mommy blogs and we used to document every
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: moment of our kids' lives. I had done that, I so,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: I mean Tim mentioned it in his book. So I
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: have depression and anxiety, and I'm an introvert, a talkative introvert,
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: but like being around my kids drains me. But I
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: love them like crazy. So I mean, for me, motherhood
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: is a happy struggle that I love it. All I've
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: ever wanted to be in in my life was a mom,
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: stay at home mom, and I wanted to have, you know,
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: I wanted the life that I have, but it's hard.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: So and I think people need to realize that that's motherhood,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: that it's not all roses and easygoing and stuff like that.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: And you know, I remember, after having a few kids,
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: being pissed on. Nobody warned me about how clothing is
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: the bane of every mother's existence. These tubs of clothes
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: that you're holding for hand me downs, and like you
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: have too much and then you don't have the right
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: size and you're constantly switching out weather clothes and stuff.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, it's the laundry, and it's like, why
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: didn't anyone tell me this? Because you can't tell everybody everything.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: But it is something that I was like, I wanted
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: to be real about it. Yeah, so show the joyful things.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: So I write a column for the Examiner, and that
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: money is earmarked for my cleaning lady who does our laundry.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: You need to get a side hustle.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: No, for real, Like I decided when we hired our
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: cleaning lady, I was like, I need to find something
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: that I do every single week that will pay that
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: and then I can And when I'm writing that column,
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: I am joyfully like I'm doing this instead of putting
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: away laundry.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: And that's what my kids at the age they're all
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: supposed to be doing their own laundry, but inevitably, like
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: it goes to the washer the dryer and it either
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: stays in the dryer while somebody else. I've had kids
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: take like wet clothes out of the washer to like
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: and put it in a basket to keep their laundry going.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: So like I'll be like on top of it. I'm
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: like everything's going smoothly, and then the kids start doing
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: their launch and I'm like, well, you can't leave your
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: clean clothes in the laundry room.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: Like it has to move. Yep, it's the putting away
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: that's the problem. I do all the washing, she puts
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: it away, and she does the switching. She's unemotional about
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: weeding out the stuff. And that's what I need, especially
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: the little boy clothes. That was really not easy for me.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: At the stage with the younger two that we're not
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: keeping anything.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we are too, I mean we are done, like
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: six bins of clothes. Yeah, yeah, no, we're I mean
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: we're done. I'm not buying another car that I can't
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: fit anywhere. I physically, I feel I met my physical limit.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: You watched me give birth to a ten pound baby.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: His shoulders, his shoulders, and you watched him come out
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: how they had to ease one shoulder and then the
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: other shoulder, and I remember when his head came out.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: I was like, why isn't this over yet?
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why I get up at durls crazy, But
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: I love watching you do it.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: And you you almost saw the fourth born, but I
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: was so psychotic with her that I didn't want anyone
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: to see how crazy I was.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: I forgot about that. I ended up taking your kids instead.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you took and Tim took them on a hike
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: and I was talking with him. We were in Florida
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: to work conference, like two weeks ago, and he was
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: showing me pictures of that day and I had never
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: seen all of his pictures, like you had sent like
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: one picture, but he had like all these pictures of
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: my kids on his phone from when you guys watched them.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: Tim was like my paper. I remember my sister and
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: I both wanted to go to my cousin's wedding and
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: her husband was going with her, and Tim, I can't remember,
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: like had to stay home. Anyway, he watched he had
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: twelve kids for a weekend and like probably collected a
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: couple of neighbor kids and like took them all out hiking.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: That was that. Birth number four was my favorite. I'm like, oh,
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: I have a Jewish friend because you gave birth on Shivo. Yeah,
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: and before I was like drop the kids off, you'd
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: just given birth, and Seth was like, can you turn
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: on the oven for the stovetop for me? He wanted
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: to make mac and cheese. Your jewel was going to
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: make mac and cheese are like something for somebody, like
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: can you quick? But she was up with you and
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: he was like can you hear on the stovetop real quick?
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: And oh my god, that's the best.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: That's so funny. I didn't know that. I mean, I
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: can't know all the things that's really funny though. Yeah,
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: that birth and then you were I'm literally like sitting
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: in the same room where I had numbers five and.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: Six, oh, where the magic happened. Oh my lord.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: And I'm so glad because the fourth I also had
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: her at home. But I have a little bit of
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: like PTSD from that birth because it was so hard
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: and and I every time I took a shower in
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: that shower after that birth, I was the old that
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: was my old was the townhouse. Yeah, I would stand
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: and the tiles would give me flashbacks from that birth.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: And if I had had that, I would have had
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: to renovate my bathroom. But my fifth and my sixth
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: I have no trauma, and so I'm happy in my house.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: Fast too, Yeah, and that was why they were non so.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Traumatic something like that. That was fast. Yeah. Yeah, birth.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: I do miss giving birth, though I missed it. I
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: love giving birth. I mean, remember I get induced, I
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: get an epidural that my hips were made for birth
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: in I pushed twice and they come out and my
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: deliveries aren't my labors are only five hours.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: So this is I saw. I don't drink coffee, And
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: part of why I don't drink coffee at this point,
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: at forty years old, is what if it's life changing
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: and I know that I could have spent twenty years
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: drinking coffee. That's kind of how I feel about, like
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: an epidural. What if I had an epidural for my
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: seventh and then was like, what was I thinking?
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: I was going as fast as you well, Tim will
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: tell you every time I get pregnant, I'm like, this
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: is the one I'm going natural with. I'm all natural
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: with this one. I'm gonna do it well.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: So that's what I say about having a tub birth.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: Then by like halfway through the pregnancy, I'm like, screw that.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: We getting an epidural, and I'm like talking to my obi,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: I'm like, so when can I schedule the induction? He's like, now,
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: You're like, you still have like four more months to go,
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: damn lady. I hate being pregnant. I hate it so much.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: But I get restless leg syndrome. I don't sleep for
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: nine months a lot. But I love giving birth, and
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: I love in the kind of like my keep being
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: an emergency room. I stay in the hospital for as
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: long as they let me, and it's just me and
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: the baby, and I love it.
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: So that's I'm the opposite. I hate. I want to
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: be home. I want to go to Trader Joe's the
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: next day. I want to just be out.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: In the world. Yees see, you and I are very
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: different because then I go into hibernation mode. As soon
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: as I gim home, I'm in my room. I just hybernate.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: I don't do the Asian bunch of my friends with
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it's called.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: It's something yeah, yeah, But I'm.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: Like, it's kind of appealing except for that you have
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: to eat certain things and stuff and like not, but
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: the whole like hibernating, I like, yeah.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: I'm the exact opposite. I have such difficult pregnancies that
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: as soon as I'm done, and I also I have
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: such precipitous births that I basically stop going out the
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: last like two or three weeks because I'm I've been afraid.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: You close to your home base.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I once a bunch of Trader Joe's, and I had.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: I always have really bad Brax and Hicks contractions, and
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: it's impossible for me to tell the difference between real
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: contractions and Brax and Hicks, and always the Brax and
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: Hicks are worse than my early labor, and so I
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: have been surprised, unless like I start bleeding or something.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: I'm always surprised that I'm actually in labor. And so
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: once I was in Trader Joe's and I started having
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: really serious contractions and I thought I was I thought
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: I was going to drop that baby in the middle
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: of the aisle. And I was talking to one of
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: the managers who I became friendly with, and he knew
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: from a previous conversation that I had had a baby
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: on the side of the road, and he walked up
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: to me and I was doubled over the red cart
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: and he was like, am I going to deliver this one?
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: You know you'd get a lot of swag from Traded Joe's.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: Something to think about. You sure you don't want to
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: have some.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: I know I was tempted. I was tempted, but I
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: was like, I think I need to go home. And
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: he was so sweet. He's like, are you safe to
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: get in your car because you remember.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: And I was like, I look six minutes away, I
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: can make it.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: And I did. And I wasn't a labor So, speaking
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: of my wonderful husband, it is twelve fifteen and I
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: hear the children asking for lunch, and he came upstairs,
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: and I think that he's just like trying to figure
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: out what to make. So I'm thinking I'm gonna go
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: help him. Great, thank you so much for coming on.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: No one should follow you anywhere, but everyone should buy
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: Tim's books to pay for your private school tuition.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: That's right, please do like pretty expensive?
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah all right, thank you so much. I love you,
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: and let's hang out soon.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do it all right.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: Oh wait, what's the last thing I say? I settle it.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: There we go. Bye.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: Ricochet Join the conversation