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Rhinoplasty, aka Nose Jobs · Stuff You Should Know

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I
0:04
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh,
0:13
Speaker 1: and there's Chuck and there's Jerry, and uh, this is
0:17
Speaker 1: Stuff you should Know. The Schnaz edition. It's such a
0:21
Speaker 1: great word. It is man and it's such a great
0:24
Speaker 1: descriptor to like, I consider my nose a schnaz. There's
0:28
Speaker 1: a big difference between schnas and a nose and I've
0:31
Speaker 1: got a schnaz. Yeah. And what I think is even funnier.
0:35
Speaker 1: And this goes back to the Saturday Night Live, which
0:39
Speaker 1: one was it? It was a Martin Short season and
0:44
Speaker 1: it was one of the Martin Short sketches where he's
0:46
Speaker 1: doing I think Nathan Thurm was the attorney that he
0:50
Speaker 1: did occasionally, and he said the word schnas like snaz
0:56
Speaker 1: without this and it just made it even funnier. He said,
1:01
Speaker 1: we don't make snazzas he's talking about fake noses. So
1:05
Speaker 1: did he did he get it wrong or did he
1:08
Speaker 1: mess up a line or what was the deal? Oh?
1:10
Speaker 1: I think it was just the comedic genius of Martin Short. Yeah,
1:14
Speaker 1: he's pretty good. And speaking of which, uh, this has
1:20
Speaker 1: nothing to do with that. But we're teasing out listener
1:23
Speaker 1: mail today early because we have collected I knew we'd
1:27
Speaker 1: get some good grilled cheese tips, and we collected a
1:30
Speaker 1: little small compendium. So it's gonna be a bit of
1:33
Speaker 1: an extended listener mail where we go over the listener
1:37
Speaker 1: mail tips for grilled cheese sandwiches. We're really going to
1:40
Speaker 1: wear out that background music. Let's a stick around. So
1:44
Speaker 1: we're talking nose jobs today, Chuck also called rhinoplastic. You
1:49
Speaker 1: would think rhino plastics the clinical term, and I guess
1:52
Speaker 1: technically it is, but if you are a plastic surgeon
1:56
Speaker 1: or cosmetic surgeon, um, you would probably not call it
2:00
Speaker 1: that any longer. You'd call it nose sculpting instead, which
2:04
Speaker 1: to me really kind of underscores the vibe about nose
2:11
Speaker 1: jobs today. That is a little bit here, a little
2:13
Speaker 1: bit there, nothing too ridiculously radical, and that's a far
2:17
Speaker 1: cry from, you know, the rhino plastic of the past,
2:20
Speaker 1: from what I understand. Yeah, I've heard it calls no
2:24
Speaker 1: nose reshaping as well. And rhino plastic itself comes from Greek,
2:30
Speaker 1: of course, rhino meaning nose or SNAs uh and plasticoast
2:39
Speaker 1: p l A s I k O s which looks
2:43
Speaker 1: so so. Greek means to shape into mold, and that's
2:46
Speaker 1: what plastic surgery comes from. Of course, a rhinoplasty is
2:51
Speaker 1: just reach re shaping the snaz man. You are on
2:57
Speaker 1: fire in man, really, yes, I mean no, it's not no,
3:04
Speaker 1: you've been on fire. But I'm saying like, like you've
3:06
Speaker 1: really just stepped it up in the last like this
3:10
Speaker 1: past year. I don't know what the deal is, but
3:11
Speaker 1: I love it. I'm I'm loving it. I'm here for it,
3:15
Speaker 1: and I want more and more. All right, nowhere to
3:19
Speaker 1: go but down. That's right, that's what they call a
3:22
Speaker 1: set up. You're gonna do great, chuck, what kind of snot?
3:27
Speaker 1: Thank you for that, by the way, demur, but and
3:32
Speaker 1: try to move on very quickly when given a compliment. Yeah,
3:35
Speaker 1: well so let's do that here. That's fine, that's fine,
3:37
Speaker 1: But I also want to add something to that. I
3:40
Speaker 1: I that is now the last time I'm going to
3:42
Speaker 1: like drag one of your great jokes out and like,
3:46
Speaker 1: you know, beat it with a rug beater until it's
3:49
Speaker 1: totally not funny anymore. Now I'm fully on board, So
3:52
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna play a lot like it's just normal yeah, Uh,
3:57
Speaker 1: what kind of nose job would someone get? Why would
3:59
Speaker 1: someone want a nose up? Oh, there's all sorts of
4:01
Speaker 1: reasons you could want a nose job. You could be
4:03
Speaker 1: a um U seventh century b c. Indian thief or
4:09
Speaker 1: adulterer and have had your nose lopped off as punishment. Okay,
4:14
Speaker 1: bring it forward. You could have been in uh one
4:17
Speaker 1: of the world Wars and been facially um injured by
4:22
Speaker 1: a mine. Bring it forward. You could have been born
4:28
Speaker 1: with a kind of nose that is characteristic of your
4:31
Speaker 1: ethnicity and want to have changed it to fit in
4:34
Speaker 1: with waspy mid century America getting closer. And then lastly,
4:41
Speaker 1: um you can also want to reshape your nose for
4:44
Speaker 1: medical reasons as well. Right, the only thing you left out,
4:49
Speaker 1: which and we're going to get to all this stuff
4:50
Speaker 1: in greater detail, is you may have had syphilis, which
4:54
Speaker 1: let at a time in our history that left you
4:58
Speaker 1: with kind of a hole in the front of your face. Us.
5:00
Speaker 1: And just big tip for people, do not google syphilis
5:05
Speaker 1: nose and look for images because while you will see
5:09
Speaker 1: that and that is alarming in and of itself, you
5:12
Speaker 1: will see lots of nastiness that you won't be able
5:16
Speaker 1: to forget anytime soon. Yeah, because apparently syphilis causes necrosis
5:20
Speaker 1: of your soft tissues, and you know, soft tissues combined
5:23
Speaker 1: to kind of give us a characteristic appearance, and when
5:26
Speaker 1: that soft tissue is missing, it can be you know, um,
5:30
Speaker 1: disarming at first or alarming at first until you just
5:33
Speaker 1: stop and think, like, what's the person? You know? That's right?
5:37
Speaker 1: Uh So as far as cosmetic stuff goes, and if
5:40
Speaker 1: this is purely like, hey, I just don't really like
5:43
Speaker 1: the way my nose looks and I would like to
5:45
Speaker 1: to to get it to look the way I wanted
5:48
Speaker 1: to look. Uh. Some of the reasons are just facial balance,
5:52
Speaker 1: like how big your face is in relation to the
5:54
Speaker 1: size of your nose. You might have trouble with the
5:57
Speaker 1: width of your nose. Or it might have something to
6:00
Speaker 1: do with a visible hump or bump, which I love.
6:05
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I think is it called a Roman nose? Yes,
6:10
Speaker 1: that has sort of the hump. Yeah. You find it
6:14
Speaker 1: to be a very attractive feature on a lady. Gotcha? Okay? Cool,
6:20
Speaker 1: So I'm I'm a fan. Um, so you know that
6:23
Speaker 1: would be something you would see more in profile, or
6:26
Speaker 1: you know, it might be the tip of your nose
6:27
Speaker 1: might droop or be turned up in a more I
6:30
Speaker 1: guess they call it technically they call it a pug
6:33
Speaker 1: fashion um or it might be hooked, or you might
6:36
Speaker 1: not like your nostrils they may not be symmetrical like
6:40
Speaker 1: they can kind of do whatever you want done these days. Yeah,
6:43
Speaker 1: that's definitely true. And one of the things that um
6:46
Speaker 1: that has evolved as far as nose jobs goes, that
6:49
Speaker 1: I kind of touched on earlier is it's no it
6:52
Speaker 1: used to be, especially in the heyday of the mid century,
6:55
Speaker 1: of the fifties and sixties, when you know, nose jobs
6:58
Speaker 1: really sorry to take off for cosmetic reasons, especially among
7:01
Speaker 1: um people of Jewish ancestry in America. There was like
7:06
Speaker 1: I want this nose. You go in with a magazine picture,
7:09
Speaker 1: or you go in with your friend and be like,
7:11
Speaker 1: give me her nose. You did her nose, I want
7:14
Speaker 1: the same nose, And like there was a just this
7:17
Speaker 1: kind of general idea that you you just got exactly
7:20
Speaker 1: the nose you wanted without any regard to whether that
7:23
Speaker 1: nose actually look natural on your face. And it's evolved
7:27
Speaker 1: over time. And one of the reasons why it was
7:29
Speaker 1: because there was like a perfect nose in American nose,
7:32
Speaker 1: a Caucasian knows that was like an ideal version of beauty.
7:36
Speaker 1: And over time, especially in the last like Tanner so years,
7:41
Speaker 1: it seems like there's been a huge sea change in
7:45
Speaker 1: the way people who get those jobs approach it, and
7:47
Speaker 1: that they're like, can you just take the more extreme
7:51
Speaker 1: features of my nose, like you just went over on
7:53
Speaker 1: that list and just kind of tone them down a
7:56
Speaker 1: little bit. Don't give me a different nose. I want
7:58
Speaker 1: a slightly more idealized version of my nose. I want
8:02
Speaker 1: to look like myself. I don't want somebody else's nose.
8:04
Speaker 1: I just want it tamed a little bit. And that's
8:07
Speaker 1: kind of where it stands today from everything I saw
8:09
Speaker 1: as far as nose jobs go. Yeah, and it sort
8:12
Speaker 1: of reminds me of that great scene from the movie
8:15
Speaker 1: Singles when Bridget Fonda goes in for breast augmentation surgery
8:20
Speaker 1: and Bill Pullman is the surgeon. Yeah, Bill Pullman, and
8:27
Speaker 1: I wasn't thinking Bill Paxton, and I just couldn't remember
8:29
Speaker 1: if it was Bill Pullman. Uh, and she You know,
8:32
Speaker 1: they have the little weird science program where they make
8:35
Speaker 1: the breast larger or smaller by just hitting up or
8:37
Speaker 1: down on the computer, and she goes way big, and
8:40
Speaker 1: he's like, why don't we like fit your frame a
8:43
Speaker 1: little more. He's sort of trying to talk her into
8:46
Speaker 1: just a more reasonable form of that surgery. And I think,
8:50
Speaker 1: and that was a long time ago, and I think
8:51
Speaker 1: you're right. I think these days, and of course people
8:54
Speaker 1: get all kinds of extreme, you know, body surgery done,
8:57
Speaker 1: but I think these days it is a little bit
8:59
Speaker 1: more or common for someone to say like, hey, I'm
9:03
Speaker 1: not trying to look like a completely different version, but
9:05
Speaker 1: this one thing is always bothered me. Yeah, and then
9:08
Speaker 1: one other thing I want to say too, that seems
9:10
Speaker 1: to be a common um part of the discussion around
9:14
Speaker 1: nose jobs is um. A lot of people who get
9:18
Speaker 1: them tend to view them as not so much like
9:21
Speaker 1: a physical um operation, or it is a physical operation,
9:25
Speaker 1: but it's to correct a psychological issue that the person
9:29
Speaker 1: doesn't actually like. There's nothing wrong with their nose, they
9:34
Speaker 1: just don't like their nose, and they've come to dislike
9:36
Speaker 1: their nose so much that they have trouble like living
9:39
Speaker 1: their life because they're so self conscious about it. And
9:42
Speaker 1: to them, people who get nose jobs say this is
9:45
Speaker 1: this is this, this is just smart, Like, there's no
9:48
Speaker 1: reason for me not to do this. It's going to help,
9:50
Speaker 1: and apparently it does help sometimes. So I don't encourage
9:54
Speaker 1: it one way or the other. I certainly don't um
9:57
Speaker 1: judge or criticize or anybody who does get a nose
10:00
Speaker 1: job if they feel like it's the right thing for them.
10:02
Speaker 1: But it just seems chuck very much in step with
10:05
Speaker 1: the century and the like people in there, you know,
10:08
Speaker 1: late teens and twenties and you know, even early thirties
10:11
Speaker 1: are just so aware, way more aware than we were
10:14
Speaker 1: when we were their age. Um that that kind of
10:18
Speaker 1: has to do with nose jobs. Who has trans translated
10:20
Speaker 1: and transferred over to nose jobs that people are just
10:23
Speaker 1: thinking more about it rather than I hate my nose,
10:25
Speaker 1: I want this nose, you know. Yeah, I think it
10:28
Speaker 1: falls into the general umbrella of like, now there's a
10:32
Speaker 1: lot more um sort of shunning of this idealized beauty
10:36
Speaker 1: notion then there has been in a long time. And
10:40
Speaker 1: I'm not weighing in one or the other either because
10:41
Speaker 1: it's a very personal choice. But I will say that
10:44
Speaker 1: I do love the idea of this idealized form of
10:47
Speaker 1: beauty being kind of kick to the curb to say
10:50
Speaker 1: something more modern. Deed, there are a few things that
10:53
Speaker 1: have been more harmful that didn't involve like guns or
10:56
Speaker 1: explosions than and a single idealized form of beauty, you know, alright,
11:01
Speaker 1: so I agree. Um, let's go over some statistics right
11:05
Speaker 1: out of the gate. Most of these are from the
11:07
Speaker 1: United States. We do have a few international statistics, but
11:10
Speaker 1: it seems like those are a little harder to trust
11:14
Speaker 1: just based on how they're gathered. But about two point
11:17
Speaker 1: three million, um, I think this is complete cosmetic surgical
11:23
Speaker 1: procedures in the US, and I think it knows reshaping
11:29
Speaker 1: is and was the most common. About three D fifty
11:32
Speaker 1: two tho nose jobs in the US far more women
11:37
Speaker 1: two eight seven thousand compared to sixty five thousand men
11:41
Speaker 1: and teens make up about of those. Nine year olds
11:46
Speaker 1: make up thirty one. If you live out West, you're
11:50
Speaker 1: more likely about a third of the nose jobs are
11:52
Speaker 1: performed dot West. I don't know if that means, you know,
11:55
Speaker 1: Los Angeles County and probably uh and then called Aasian
12:00
Speaker 1: White people get way more nose jobs than anyone else
12:03
Speaker 1: by a long shot. Seventy one of the nose jobs
12:05
Speaker 1: in twenty were on Caucasians African Americans with just five percent, Hispanic,
12:11
Speaker 1: ten percent, in Asian Pacific Islander eleven percent. So if
12:16
Speaker 1: you're a white American twenty five year old woman living
12:21
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, there's basically a hundred percent chance that
12:24
Speaker 1: you're going to get a nose job. I think you
12:26
Speaker 1: have to from what I'm seeing here. Um, what about internationally, Well,
12:29
Speaker 1: like you said, the stats are a little wobbly compared
12:33
Speaker 1: to the U. S A stats, But apparently Brazil is
12:37
Speaker 1: number one, they're the leader, um, followed by Turkey and America. Um,
12:43
Speaker 1: and then Argentina and Russia. This list, I've seen reference
12:48
Speaker 1: elsewhere that Iran is actually number four behind Brazil, Mexico,
12:53
Speaker 1: and America. So it's just it's just up for grabs.
12:56
Speaker 1: Apparently the rhino plastic reporting standards around the world or
13:00
Speaker 1: have have something to be desired. Sure, but let's just
13:05
Speaker 1: say in the top five, six seven, you could definitely
13:09
Speaker 1: have Brazil, the United States, Mexico, Iran, Turkey, that kind
13:14
Speaker 1: of thing, right. I think that's because the way they
13:17
Speaker 1: count rhino plasty around the world is they just have
13:20
Speaker 1: a little like a suggestion box type thing on the
13:22
Speaker 1: way out, and they say, well, you like to keep
13:24
Speaker 1: track it? Who does this? To just write your real
13:26
Speaker 1: name on a piece of paper and just stick it
13:28
Speaker 1: in there, or we'll just trust you to do that.
13:30
Speaker 1: There is a big mistranslation and they accidentally translated translated
13:35
Speaker 1: not Schnas but SNAs confused everybody else. That's good. Uh,
13:42
Speaker 1: should we take a break here and then dive into
13:44
Speaker 1: the history. All right, let's do it. So, Chuck, I
14:11
Speaker 1: made reference before about living in six hundred or the
14:16
Speaker 1: seventh century BC. Um, and maybe you were undergoing a
14:22
Speaker 1: rhino plastic operation because you had your nose removed as
14:26
Speaker 1: a punishment. Um. That's actually where rhino plastic began. Like,
14:32
Speaker 1: it's not like there was some ridiculously primitive procedure that
14:35
Speaker 1: somebody tried once and then the idea was lost for
14:38
Speaker 1: a couple of thousand years, and then it got developed
14:41
Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century by some British guy. That's not
14:43
Speaker 1: at all how it happened. There was an Indian surgeon
14:46
Speaker 1: named sush Rida, which is not his name is actually
14:49
Speaker 1: an adjective that means renowned. But Sushrita is considered the
14:53
Speaker 1: father of cosmetic surgery, and that this guy was not
14:57
Speaker 1: only performing cosmetic surgery like rebuilding noses from nothing, um,
15:03
Speaker 1: he was documenting it too, in in medical texts that
15:06
Speaker 1: he wrote that survived, and he created a technique called
15:09
Speaker 1: the Indian flap that was still in use into the
15:11
Speaker 1: twentieth century. Is that how it's pronounced his name, Sushrida.
15:17
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, that's what I'm going sus Shrewda. I mean
15:20
Speaker 1: that's you. I guess I'm in the mood for a margarita.
15:25
Speaker 1: I'm in the mood to do a little dance called
15:27
Speaker 1: the Indian flap because that sounds like a lot of
15:29
Speaker 1: fun at a party. Um, the surgical procedure not so fun.
15:35
Speaker 1: I mean, should we read part of this? Yes? Or
15:37
Speaker 1: should we read all of it? I think it's it's worthwhile. Yeah, alright.
15:40
Speaker 1: So this was a description of the Indian flap technique
15:43
Speaker 1: from Sa Shrewda aka Sashrida himself. The portion of the
15:49
Speaker 1: nose to be covered should be first measured with a
15:51
Speaker 1: leaf as you do. Uh. Then a piece of skin
15:54
Speaker 1: of the required size should be dissected from the living
15:57
Speaker 1: skin of the cheek, which is super advanced. Still what
16:00
Speaker 1: I mean scrafting right right, and it's leaving bud supply
16:03
Speaker 1: coming from the cheek. Still yeah, very smart, very good.
16:06
Speaker 1: Uh So we're we're approving of these surgical methods, year
16:10
Speaker 1: old surgical methods. You know, we're we're in a position
16:13
Speaker 1: to do that. We live in the twenty one century, baby, yeah, exactly. Uh.
16:18
Speaker 1: Let me see, uh dissected from the looming skin in
16:20
Speaker 1: the cheek and turned back to cover the nose, keeping
16:23
Speaker 1: a small uh pedical attached to the cheek, which is
16:28
Speaker 1: what you referenced. The physician should then place the skin
16:32
Speaker 1: on the nose and stitch the two parts swiftly, keeping
16:36
Speaker 1: the skin properly elevated by inserting two tubes of ronda,
16:40
Speaker 1: which is a castor oil plant, and the position of
16:42
Speaker 1: the nostrils so that the new nose gets proper shape
16:45
Speaker 1: when the skin has united and granulated. If the nose
16:48
Speaker 1: is too short or too long, the middle of the
16:50
Speaker 1: flap should be divided and an endeavor made to enlarge
16:53
Speaker 1: or shorten it so it sounds like they're just taking
16:56
Speaker 1: part of the cheek, folding it back over into itself
16:59
Speaker 1: to meet the other part with a tube in the
17:02
Speaker 1: middle and then having it grow together, right, yeah, two
17:05
Speaker 1: tubes tubes. Yeah, and they still do that today. They
17:08
Speaker 1: use um stents to hold to to have the the
17:12
Speaker 1: procedure hold its place or shape afterward, um, and they
17:16
Speaker 1: leave it in there to until it heals. So like
17:19
Speaker 1: this guy was basically it's like that saying, I can't
17:22
Speaker 1: remember where it came up, but um, somebody was describing
17:25
Speaker 1: how advanced this development was or whatever development it was
17:29
Speaker 1: right out of the gate where they said that they
17:32
Speaker 1: basically invented the airplane fully functioning with like trade tables
17:38
Speaker 1: for in flight meals and everything. Like totally, this guy
17:42
Speaker 1: like just figured it out from the outs. And it's
17:45
Speaker 1: not like we're taking you know, the skin from your
17:48
Speaker 1: cheek today and using that um to to um to
17:53
Speaker 1: build a brand new nose that would probably actually be
17:55
Speaker 1: more likely to take it from other parts of your body.
17:57
Speaker 1: But the concept are still very much the same. And
18:02
Speaker 1: it's weird to think that rhino plastic has been around
18:05
Speaker 1: kind of unchanged for almost three thousand years. Yeah, And
18:09
Speaker 1: just to reiterate, so it's clear, this is the procedure
18:12
Speaker 1: when there was no more nose because it had been
18:14
Speaker 1: completely cut off so they're really starting from zero and
18:17
Speaker 1: forming a new nose. Uh. And yeah, it's pretty amazing.
18:21
Speaker 1: And I'm sure compared to what I mean, no matter
18:24
Speaker 1: the result, it probably looked better than what they had
18:26
Speaker 1: going on before, would be my guess. Yeah. Um, so
18:31
Speaker 1: this uh, this, this technique made its way um through
18:36
Speaker 1: uh Egypt or out from India and to Egypt over
18:40
Speaker 1: to Europe. Finally, um, where they were dealing with syphilis
18:43
Speaker 1: outbreaks in the fifteen and sixteenth century, like you were mentioning, Um,
18:48
Speaker 1: there's an Italian surgeon that made his contribution guests, bar actually,
18:52
Speaker 1: I think you should take this Gaspari Techlia Colzy very
18:56
Speaker 1: nice and back. He said, I'm really going to advance this.
19:01
Speaker 1: Instead of that skin from your cheek, I'm going to
19:04
Speaker 1: take it from your upper arm. So he just kind
19:06
Speaker 1: of did a modified Indian flap, and I guess you'd
19:09
Speaker 1: call that the Italian flap. But then finally in the
19:12
Speaker 1: nineteenth century, Um, there were a couple of surgeons in
19:16
Speaker 1: the late nineteenth century who really kind of duke it
19:19
Speaker 1: out for the title of father of plastic surgery, or
19:24
Speaker 1: at least aesthetic plastic surgery, because we got really good
19:27
Speaker 1: at doing things like rebuilding noses using rhino plastic, and
19:32
Speaker 1: we got so good at that people started saying like, hey,
19:35
Speaker 1: your nose is perfectly fine and it functions, but would
19:37
Speaker 1: you like to take a little off the top, And
19:40
Speaker 1: cosmetic surgery was born. That's right. I believe the first
19:44
Speaker 1: gentleman you're referring to is a michigan Er. Is that
19:48
Speaker 1: what they call themselves? I think it's actually Gander. I'm
19:52
Speaker 1: not kidding, yes, because I saw an interview with UM.
19:57
Speaker 1: I can't remember their governor's name, but she had a
20:00
Speaker 1: sign that said like proud Michigander. Yeah, yeah, I know
20:03
Speaker 1: the governor, Okay, Michigander. I like that. Seven. His name
20:08
Speaker 1: was John Orlando or Rowe. And this was I think
20:11
Speaker 1: technically the first paper about cosmetic nose jobs, called Correction
20:17
Speaker 1: of the Pug Deformity. And then the next guy, he
20:21
Speaker 1: had some fun nicknames. He was a Jewish German surgeon
20:25
Speaker 1: named Dr Jacques Joseph uh and his nickname was nos Joseph.
20:33
Speaker 1: Pretty good. Yeah. He actually UM kind of ties into
20:37
Speaker 1: our episode on World War One soldier masks. Do you
20:41
Speaker 1: remember that? Yeah? Yeah, I knew this wrong A bell
20:44
Speaker 1: I get the impression that he was probably working in
20:47
Speaker 1: the same maybe the same campus that the guy who
20:51
Speaker 1: led that mask department to to build masks for UM
20:55
Speaker 1: soldiers who came back with UM facial differences from from
20:58
Speaker 1: like bombs and bullets and stuff. Uh, this guy was
21:01
Speaker 1: actually doing cosmetic surgery UM to help prepare those injuries. UM.
21:08
Speaker 1: And he got interested eventually in making UM changes to
21:14
Speaker 1: help uh Jewish Europeans fit in better. And we'll talk
21:19
Speaker 1: a little more about that later when we talk about
21:21
Speaker 1: ethnic cosmetic surgery. But UM, that was kind of like
21:26
Speaker 1: his evolution. He went from helping soldiers to kind of
21:28
Speaker 1: helping you know, wealthy citizen re in Europe. Uh. And
21:32
Speaker 1: because of that, because this guy showed that there was
21:35
Speaker 1: a huge demand that no one realized was actually there
21:38
Speaker 1: before a huge explosion of I don't know, Charlatan's ne'er
21:43
Speaker 1: do wells, shiftless slackers, snake oil salesman. I'm sure um
21:50
Speaker 1: who who figured out like, hey, I'll just give this
21:53
Speaker 1: a shot. How hard can it be? Um? And the
21:56
Speaker 1: rise of the beauty doctor came along. Yeah, the beauty doctor. Uh,
22:01
Speaker 1: it's sort of a contradictory name, I would imagine because
22:04
Speaker 1: these were the unlicensed practitioners out patient knows jobs like hey,
22:11
Speaker 1: I've got some paraffin wax, let me inject that in there,
22:14
Speaker 1: because that's a great idea. Just don't go out in
22:16
Speaker 1: the sun. And it's also carcinogenic. So this was you know,
22:21
Speaker 1: a very sort of um cut rate job that you
22:24
Speaker 1: didn't have to pay a lot of money for and
22:27
Speaker 1: it's probably the you know, the expectation was not great,
22:30
Speaker 1: but it was at a time where I guess, you know,
22:34
Speaker 1: legitimate plastic surgery was just entering the fray, so people
22:38
Speaker 1: didn't know any better, and so there were a lot
22:41
Speaker 1: of bad, bad outcomes. I think from these beauty doctors.
22:44
Speaker 1: What what's nuts to me, Chuck? Is this still going
22:46
Speaker 1: on today with button augmentation. There's a lot of underground
22:51
Speaker 1: like unlicensed people who use non medical stuff like silicone
22:57
Speaker 1: and pump it into people's bots to like make your
23:00
Speaker 1: butt bigger. Um, And it's cheaper. Like you said, it's
23:04
Speaker 1: much cheaper because their unlicensed and they kind of know
23:07
Speaker 1: what they're doing from experience. But they also have no
23:11
Speaker 1: way of getting you to the hospital. They're not doing
23:13
Speaker 1: this in the hospital, and some people have died. I
23:15
Speaker 1: wrote about a mother daughter team who killed a woman
23:18
Speaker 1: because they injected silicon and they accidentally got it into
23:21
Speaker 1: her muscle, which introduced to the bloodstream and killed her
23:24
Speaker 1: within an hour or so. Um, it is really sad.
23:27
Speaker 1: Um And apparently there's been other people who died like this,
23:30
Speaker 1: so it's still going on. But as far as rhinoplasty
23:33
Speaker 1: is concerned, I'm pretty sure it's widespread enough and just
23:37
Speaker 1: affordable enough that people aren't going to underground surgeons like
23:40
Speaker 1: they were in the nineteenth century for it. Yeah. I
23:43
Speaker 1: mean it's sad that that still exists and that people
23:45
Speaker 1: can get away with doing this stuff like out of
23:46
Speaker 1: their houses, you know. Um, So things boomed in the
23:50
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties in the US, like you were talking, and
23:53
Speaker 1: I guess now comes the time where we talk a
23:55
Speaker 1: little bit about the procedure itself and the nose itself. Um,
24:01
Speaker 1: it's a little you know. What really helps is if
24:03
Speaker 1: you're not driving a car or something, if you can
24:06
Speaker 1: just look up sort of a a profile of the
24:08
Speaker 1: nose that's labeled for the different parts, which Dave Ruse
24:13
Speaker 1: put this together for us, right, Yeah, he did did
24:15
Speaker 1: a great job too. Yeah, Dave was kind enough to
24:17
Speaker 1: actually include a picture like this, which really helps kind
24:21
Speaker 1: of break it all down. Um, you've got your upper
24:23
Speaker 1: third of the nose, which is the nasal bone, and
24:25
Speaker 1: his and his just you know, that's where the bone is.
24:28
Speaker 1: That's where if you get your if you get popped
24:30
Speaker 1: in the square in the nose with somebody's fist and
24:34
Speaker 1: you break your nose, you're breaking that nasal bone because
24:37
Speaker 1: almost all of the rest is what's known as cartilage,
24:40
Speaker 1: which is just you know, that's what that's the shape
24:43
Speaker 1: that you're seeing, and that's why you can squish on
24:46
Speaker 1: the front of your nose and your nostrils and it's
24:48
Speaker 1: you know, it just feels like, uh, what does it
24:51
Speaker 1: feel like? Help me out. It feels more rubbery than
24:54
Speaker 1: the top part of it. Rubbery. There you go. And also,
24:57
Speaker 1: even if you don't have a phone or you can't
24:59
Speaker 1: look at pick sures right now, you can feel the difference.
25:02
Speaker 1: Like if you pinch the bridge of your nose and
25:04
Speaker 1: just kind of slide it down past about a third
25:06
Speaker 1: of the way down towards the tip and just kind
25:08
Speaker 1: of move it, wiggle it back and forth, you can
25:11
Speaker 1: feel that's bone that's not moving, that's cartilage. That's that's
25:15
Speaker 1: gonna move. It's gonna do the Indian flap. If you
25:17
Speaker 1: move on a sneeze, don't make me sneeze. Just put
25:22
Speaker 1: your corn applicat roof them off. Is that supposed to work? Actually? Yeah,
25:26
Speaker 1: it also works for ice cream headaches too. Okay, man,
25:30
Speaker 1: we're just slaying the knowledge today. Uh So, then you've
25:33
Speaker 1: got your rate x R A D I X. This
25:36
Speaker 1: is the built up cartilage um over the ridge of
25:40
Speaker 1: your nose. And this is where you might get like,
25:43
Speaker 1: if you have a hump on your nose, it's probably
25:46
Speaker 1: gonna be on that rate x. And this might be
25:48
Speaker 1: something that people choose to get flattened out. Yep. You
25:52
Speaker 1: also have um. One of the more interesting pieces of
25:55
Speaker 1: your body that I didn't realize the name of it,
25:58
Speaker 1: but I love it now that I know it, the columella,
26:02
Speaker 1: which is the little skin between your two nostrils, the
26:05
Speaker 1: little kind of vertical strip of skin that separates your nostrils.
26:09
Speaker 1: And I thought that was a septim. I learned all
26:11
Speaker 1: kinds of stuff when I did that, the septims inside
26:13
Speaker 1: your nose. The columella is the part you can actually touch. Yeah,
26:17
Speaker 1: so just touch the little piece of skin between your
26:19
Speaker 1: your nose and my friend, you're touching your columella. That's right.
26:25
Speaker 1: The septums up inside your nose above that, and it
26:29
Speaker 1: actually continues the separation of your nostrils in your nose. Yeah,
26:36
Speaker 1: and see, I always thought because I just I never
26:38
Speaker 1: knew much about this stuff or looked into it because
26:40
Speaker 1: I have a great nose. But I always thought a
26:45
Speaker 1: deviated septim meant that that that the septum was actually
26:48
Speaker 1: like had a hole in it. Can that's perforated? Really though,
26:51
Speaker 1: that can happen to the habitual cocaine use. Well, yeah,
26:55
Speaker 1: you always heard that story about make Jagger, which is
26:57
Speaker 1: probably not even true. His septom all out or something. Yeah,
27:01
Speaker 1: like he had it like it was completely dissolved at
27:04
Speaker 1: some point. That, No, that can't happen. I saw a
27:06
Speaker 1: study where out of like a hundred and four cocaine
27:09
Speaker 1: users who used like ten or more times a month,
27:13
Speaker 1: just a pretty heavy cocaine user, um like ten of them,
27:16
Speaker 1: ten percent had had a perforated septum. And that eventually
27:20
Speaker 1: gets so perforated that your septum can just kind of
27:23
Speaker 1: fall in and your your actual nose can collapse Yeah,
27:27
Speaker 1: I think I wasn't saying that that's not possible. I
27:30
Speaker 1: just doubted that it was Mick Jagger does. It just
27:33
Speaker 1: seemed like one of those far out celebrity rumor things.
27:36
Speaker 1: But who knows. He certainly, you know, was familiar with
27:40
Speaker 1: that drug at one point. It's it's like the time
27:43
Speaker 1: Reggie Jackson slash Eddie Murphy slash Lionel Richie told that
27:47
Speaker 1: lady of the elevator to sit down, but it was
27:49
Speaker 1: actually do she was talking. He was talking to you
27:52
Speaker 1: refer to our episode on Urban Legends from a gazillion years. Uh,
27:56
Speaker 1: and then what wait, we're missing one more piece? Oh,
27:58
Speaker 1: just the tip, just the l R A L A
28:02
Speaker 1: R cartilage is the tip there? And uh, that's where
28:07
Speaker 1: you know, if your tip turns up a little bit,
28:08
Speaker 1: they call that the pug deformity, or they did back then.
28:11
Speaker 1: I'm I'm not sure what they would call it now,
28:13
Speaker 1: a cute button nos, acute button nos, or if it
28:15
Speaker 1: has a little tiny hook at the end. Uh, I
28:19
Speaker 1: might want to get that done, who knows, who knows?
28:22
Speaker 1: I mean, that's there's few more personal decisions to whether
28:27
Speaker 1: you get a nose job or not. Yeah, Like I
28:30
Speaker 1: almost can't think of one, and by almost, I mean
28:33
Speaker 1: I can't. Right. So you've got all these different parts
28:36
Speaker 1: of the nose and we went over and because they
28:38
Speaker 1: all kind of come into play, um, depending on what
28:42
Speaker 1: you're going to do. But um, you know, one of
28:45
Speaker 1: the one of the leading reasons people go in for
28:48
Speaker 1: rhino plasty is to get their nose reduced in size
28:51
Speaker 1: in some way, shape or form. You can also increase
28:55
Speaker 1: the size of your nose. Um. One very common um
28:59
Speaker 1: uh type of I know plastic is where you actually
29:02
Speaker 1: elongate the nose to have it come further off of
29:05
Speaker 1: your face, so that in relation to your face, your
29:08
Speaker 1: nose appears narrower. Even though they haven't sized down your nose,
29:12
Speaker 1: they just made it longer, which makes it seem narrower.
29:15
Speaker 1: A lot of this is kind of optical illusion. Yeah,
29:19
Speaker 1: that's called projection rhinoplasty, and that obviously is going to
29:24
Speaker 1: require you graph something from another body part or from
29:27
Speaker 1: a cadaver. That happens as well. Yeah, I'm not sure
29:31
Speaker 1: why they would do that instead of one of your
29:34
Speaker 1: own unless you didn't want any of the rest of
29:37
Speaker 1: your body being removed. I don't I don't know who knows,
29:40
Speaker 1: but they, Yeah, they definitely do. They'll use that from cadavers.
29:43
Speaker 1: They they can use it from rib cartilage, septum, cartilage,
29:47
Speaker 1: your cartilage. There's a lot of places they can harvest
29:50
Speaker 1: cartilage from, and you don't need a lot. I think
29:52
Speaker 1: I get the very distinct impression that a little bit
29:55
Speaker 1: of rhinoplasty goes a very long way, and I think
29:58
Speaker 1: that's true. I don't know if if really kind of
30:00
Speaker 1: harped on this or not, Chuck, but remember when you
30:02
Speaker 1: said plastic coast means plastic or to shape or to
30:06
Speaker 1: mold in that sense. That's something I think we should
30:09
Speaker 1: point out because for a very long time, I always
30:12
Speaker 1: thought plastic surgery meant that they were inserting like plastic
30:16
Speaker 1: stuff in there. Yeah. I think a lot of people
30:19
Speaker 1: thought that. Yeah, interest all right, Now they mean plastic
30:22
Speaker 1: in the term of something being able to be molded
30:25
Speaker 1: or bend or changed or shaped. That's what they're using.
30:29
Speaker 1: The term plastic force. There's no plastic use. They're using cartilage,
30:32
Speaker 1: they're using bone. They're removing cartilage, they're removing bone, and
30:36
Speaker 1: depending on where you remove cartilage or where you remove
30:39
Speaker 1: bone has a huge effect on the overall appearance in
30:42
Speaker 1: shape and size of your nose. That's right. Uh. The
30:46
Speaker 1: it's a bit of a misnomer that you have to
30:48
Speaker 1: have your nose broken to have rhinoplastic That is usually
30:52
Speaker 1: not true, although it can be. Uh. They've really come
30:55
Speaker 1: a long way over the years and how and kind
30:57
Speaker 1: of like with every surgery with it's as non invasive
31:02
Speaker 1: as it can get these days. And there are a
31:04
Speaker 1: couple of different types. There are open and closed rhinoplasts,
31:07
Speaker 1: and they each have their advantages. Both open type. You're
31:11
Speaker 1: gonna make that incision and the columbula, I think columella, man,
31:19
Speaker 1: I really mess that up. Uh. And that is that
31:22
Speaker 1: thin strip of skin that you talked about between your nostrils.
31:26
Speaker 1: It's a little incision there and then you can access
31:30
Speaker 1: the cartilage from that point and the bone through that
31:33
Speaker 1: single incision. Uh. They like this when it takes a
31:38
Speaker 1: little longer for the swelling to go down, I think,
31:40
Speaker 1: and you might have a little have a little bit
31:42
Speaker 1: of a scar, but I think this is the one
31:44
Speaker 1: that they prefer to use when you need a little
31:47
Speaker 1: more work done than usual, a little more cartilage, right,
31:50
Speaker 1: because cutting that columella allows them to lift the skin
31:54
Speaker 1: off of your nose and access it more readily. So
31:56
Speaker 1: if they're doing extensive work, this is just gonna make
31:59
Speaker 1: it easier for them, which just the thought of that
32:03
Speaker 1: makes me want to faint, But that's what they do.
32:05
Speaker 1: The closed version makes me want to faint only slightly less.
32:10
Speaker 1: But they actually go into your nostrils and up to
32:13
Speaker 1: a certain point depending on where they're going to be
32:15
Speaker 1: doing work, and they make an incision at each nostril,
32:19
Speaker 1: which then that allows them access to the cartilage and
32:23
Speaker 1: the bone along the nose um, and that has a
32:27
Speaker 1: much quicker recovery time compared to the open rhino plastic.
32:30
Speaker 1: Like you were saying, right, and you're not gonna have
32:33
Speaker 1: a visible scar because it's up in your little mastres. Right.
32:36
Speaker 1: That is something like even though you're not getting your
32:38
Speaker 1: nose broken, if you get an open rhino plastic and
32:41
Speaker 1: probably just about any type of cosmetic rhinoplasty um, you
32:46
Speaker 1: are going to have a recovery time where you basically
32:51
Speaker 1: want to set aside two weeks to where you can
32:54
Speaker 1: just take care of yourself at home, um, because you're
32:58
Speaker 1: going to look very much beaten up with black eyes.
33:01
Speaker 1: Your nose is going to be extremely sensitive. One of
33:04
Speaker 1: the things I saw that you're supposed to do during
33:06
Speaker 1: recovery is to avoid blowing your nose. The thought of
33:10
Speaker 1: that makes me want to faint too. Blowing your nose
33:13
Speaker 1: after rhinoplastic um. You want to eat soft foods, brush
33:17
Speaker 1: your teeth, chasy. Yeah, you don't want to sneeze because
33:20
Speaker 1: again you're gonna have stents in your nose that are
33:22
Speaker 1: holding the shape, that are keeping the sutures from coming out.
33:26
Speaker 1: And um, you're basically after mouth breathe. Uh. And that's
33:32
Speaker 1: I mean, that's from the rhin like cosmetic rhino plastic.
33:36
Speaker 1: But there's actually other reasons to get rhino plast two
33:38
Speaker 1: that are medical reasons. And here's where your insurance kicks in.
33:42
Speaker 1: That's right, we mentioned I mentioned the deviated septum. I
33:45
Speaker 1: thought it meant that it was completely like worn away
33:47
Speaker 1: or there was a hole, which can be the case,
33:49
Speaker 1: but usually deviated septum more commonly, that is is when
33:53
Speaker 1: the internal wall is uh. Instead of kind of straight
33:57
Speaker 1: vertically down the center, which you to like sort of
34:00
Speaker 1: clear airways for the nasal passages, it's moved over to
34:04
Speaker 1: one side a little more so you've got one nasal
34:07
Speaker 1: passage that has very little room, and I would assume
34:11
Speaker 1: the other has more room, right, not to an advert way,
34:16
Speaker 1: but I guess, I guess it can depends on what's
34:19
Speaker 1: going on with the septum. But yeah, I guess like
34:21
Speaker 1: a three car garage, you know, with you So I'm
34:23
Speaker 1: actually getting this done, right, Yeah, that's what that was
34:28
Speaker 1: the idea that sparked this episode. Actually, Okay, So I
34:32
Speaker 1: went in for a consolt, Chuck, and I saw my
34:34
Speaker 1: septum and one of them, the the p A was like,
34:40
Speaker 1: I I can't even get the camera back there. Your
34:42
Speaker 1: septum is so pressed up against the the inside of
34:45
Speaker 1: your nose. Um. She didn't say the other one was
34:48
Speaker 1: wide open, although you know, I can tell I can
34:50
Speaker 1: actually breathe through it. But so I went in and
34:53
Speaker 1: got a CT scan and now I'm waiting for them
34:56
Speaker 1: to go over the results with me. But I'm pretty
34:58
Speaker 1: sure I'm going to beginning yet. And I'm scared to
35:01
Speaker 1: death because it turns out a friend of mine didn't
35:04
Speaker 1: know this. Uh West, his name is West. He just
35:07
Speaker 1: got it done, and he said that recovery was like
35:10
Speaker 1: some of the worst days of his entire life. He
35:13
Speaker 1: said it was so rotten. He said his his throat
35:16
Speaker 1: was like gravel from mouth breathing. His nose is in pain.
35:20
Speaker 1: He had these stents in his nose, and apparently his
35:23
Speaker 1: doctor didn't tell him that he'd put stints in, so
35:27
Speaker 1: West had no idea what was wrong. He just knew
35:29
Speaker 1: his nose fell all screwed up. And then he finally
35:31
Speaker 1: went in for the the like the week later follow up,
35:34
Speaker 1: and the doctor pulled the stints out and he said
35:36
Speaker 1: it was just the whish of air through his nose
35:38
Speaker 1: like he's never experienced before. He said he almost fainted
35:41
Speaker 1: from hyperventilating breathing. So I'm like, that's what I want.
35:45
Speaker 1: I'm willing to go through this for that. So um
35:48
Speaker 1: West scared me. And then another one of our listeners
35:50
Speaker 1: wrote in when I was talking about getting it done,
35:52
Speaker 1: who was like, you should get it done, but you
35:55
Speaker 1: should also go into it knowing how rough the recovery
35:58
Speaker 1: is because everybody downplays it. And so I'm I guess
36:01
Speaker 1: hopefully it's going to help me a little bit knowing
36:04
Speaker 1: to expect it. I think maybe it was so bad
36:07
Speaker 1: for them because they were caught off guard. And now
36:09
Speaker 1: if I'm expecting the worst. It might not be as bad,
36:12
Speaker 1: but I'm I'm gonna go get it done. Good Yeah,
36:16
Speaker 1: and good luck. Thanks. I'm sure it'll be fine. Let
36:19
Speaker 1: me ask you a couple of follow ups. Uh so,
36:22
Speaker 1: if you like, hold the good side, if you pinch
36:25
Speaker 1: the good side down, can you breathe it all through
36:27
Speaker 1: the other side A little? A little? Not much? Man,
36:33
Speaker 1: That must be frustrating to live with. It is. Um, yes,
36:37
Speaker 1: it is, but I didn't. I just thought it was
36:39
Speaker 1: normal until I got diagnosed with the deviated septum, and
36:42
Speaker 1: then I was like, oh okay, And I actually asked
36:46
Speaker 1: the doctor who diagnosed me, like, dude, how did I
36:48
Speaker 1: get that? He's like, I don't know. Maybe your mom
36:49
Speaker 1: dropped you on the head. You got in a fight
36:51
Speaker 1: when you were little. And I was like, I know
36:53
Speaker 1: the fight he's talking about. Really, my friends saw me
36:57
Speaker 1: in sixth grade and I got into a fight and
36:59
Speaker 1: the only time I've ever been punched in the nose,
37:01
Speaker 1: he punched me in the nose, and I guarantee that's
37:03
Speaker 1: when I got a deviated septum. Psommy, we gotta track
37:06
Speaker 1: that guy. Yeah, make him pay for this. Yeah, yeah,
37:10
Speaker 1: he should mean financially, you know, not not ref him
37:13
Speaker 1: up right now. Of course we got to make him pay.
37:16
Speaker 1: This is like I'm like Kanye and Ssommy's Pete Davidson.
37:22
Speaker 1: All right, so let me ask you this, and this
37:24
Speaker 1: may be too personal, but you know they talk about
37:27
Speaker 1: two birds one stone. If you go in, insurance will
37:30
Speaker 1: cover the uh, the medical portion, the actual DVD ad sceptum.
37:35
Speaker 1: But while people are in there, sometimes they will choose
37:39
Speaker 1: to get a little work done that you have to
37:41
Speaker 1: put the bill for. But I think the thinking is
37:44
Speaker 1: while you're in there, I never liked X about my nose. Like,
37:48
Speaker 1: I know you talked about not liking your nose. You're
37:49
Speaker 1: gonna do anything or do you even want to talk
37:51
Speaker 1: about that? Well, you know, I was looking at my
37:53
Speaker 1: nose as recently as today just to ask myself that question, honestly,
37:58
Speaker 1: because like, it's not like I don't like I knows that.
38:00
Speaker 1: It just kind of took me many years to finally
38:03
Speaker 1: be like, I'm like, I'm fine with my nose. It's fine,
38:05
Speaker 1: it's my nose. I'm I'm cool with it is what
38:07
Speaker 1: I look like. Your nose, um, thank you if you
38:10
Speaker 1: look at it a certain way in profile. I look
38:12
Speaker 1: like a cartoon gangster, like from a Dick Tracy um strips.
38:16
Speaker 1: It kind of looks a little bit like that. But um, yeah,
38:20
Speaker 1: I so I. I actually was like, no, I'm not
38:22
Speaker 1: going to It's fine. I like my nose. I'm probably
38:26
Speaker 1: less opposed to it than I I was before I
38:30
Speaker 1: researched this episode. Um, but yeah, I don't think I'm
38:34
Speaker 1: going I'm definitely not this time around, but I don't
38:36
Speaker 1: think I probably ever will. Well, here's what you do.
38:40
Speaker 1: As you're going under. You just slip a little sticky
38:43
Speaker 1: note into the surgeon's hand. Right, they'll unfolded, and it
38:47
Speaker 1: just says, if you happen to get rid of a
38:49
Speaker 1: little extra while you're in there by accident, I won't.
38:52
Speaker 1: I won't be mad at you. Are you Are you
38:54
Speaker 1: telling me that I should get a nose job? Is
38:56
Speaker 1: that what I'm hearing from me? No? No, I was
38:58
Speaker 1: just joking around, like like your No. I never thought
39:00
Speaker 1: your nose was quote unquote big until you started talking
39:05
Speaker 1: about it. And then I mean, people look how they look,
39:07
Speaker 1: and you don't like have any prominent nose features, like
39:11
Speaker 1: like a hump or anything, So I don't I never
39:14
Speaker 1: thought you had a big nose. I guess I don't
39:17
Speaker 1: know where I got that idea. I think people look
39:20
Speaker 1: at themselves obviously more critically, like I look how I look.
39:24
Speaker 1: I see myself in a picture, and I'm you know,
39:27
Speaker 1: sometimes horrified at like to kind of shape them in
39:30
Speaker 1: right now. But you know, your friends and family walk
39:33
Speaker 1: around there, it's like, that's what you look like right now.
39:35
Speaker 1: Well that's funny because I I think I trace my
39:38
Speaker 1: awareness of my nose back to Valentine's Day when I
39:41
Speaker 1: was eight. My family always made a big deal out
39:43
Speaker 1: of Valentine's Day. We would say, we we put cards
39:46
Speaker 1: on one another's chairs at dinner, and then have dinner
39:49
Speaker 1: and we get to open our Valentine's Day cards, and
39:51
Speaker 1: I remember one from my mom and dad that said,
39:53
Speaker 1: your nose is really big, but we love you anyway.
39:56
Speaker 1: Happy Valentine's Day, Mom and Dad. What I'm just kidding. Okay,
40:01
Speaker 1: that was good. You got me. I don't know where
40:04
Speaker 1: I got the idea that my nose is big, but
40:06
Speaker 1: I'm pretty it's pretty well seated in my my idea
40:09
Speaker 1: of myself. All right. Well, that's very wonderful of you
40:13
Speaker 1: to be open like this, because this is the kind
40:15
Speaker 1: of stuff that people don't talk about a lot. I
40:18
Speaker 1: think it's true. That's true, I guess not, although I
40:21
Speaker 1: think people are starting to talk about it more and more. Yeah, alright,
40:25
Speaker 1: So before we take a break and finish up about
40:29
Speaker 1: this whole idea of what's called racial passing, we will
40:32
Speaker 1: just quickly mention how much these things cost all in. Generally,
40:38
Speaker 1: about five to nine to ten thousand dollars is what
40:42
Speaker 1: I've seen for rhino plastic. It depends on where you are. Yeah,
40:48
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, it's in l A. The same thing is
40:52
Speaker 1: going to cost you ten grand to fifteen grand, And
40:55
Speaker 1: that's an average cost. There's definitely much higher um. But
40:59
Speaker 1: from what I'm being like, if you it's one of
41:02
Speaker 1: those things where you do your research and you find
41:04
Speaker 1: the doctor that you feel comfortable with and you go
41:07
Speaker 1: to them. Like, if you're spending ten grand on your nose,
41:11
Speaker 1: you you probably can swing a couple of hundred bucks
41:14
Speaker 1: maybe twice to go fly out to somewhere else in
41:17
Speaker 1: the United States or somewhere else in Europe to go
41:19
Speaker 1: to the doctor that you feel is going to do
41:22
Speaker 1: the best job. That's right, all right, So let's take
41:26
Speaker 1: that break and we'll talk a little bit about ethnic
41:29
Speaker 1: rhino plastic right after this. All right, Uh, this is
41:56
Speaker 1: something we have to talk about. It's sort of one
41:58
Speaker 1: of the uglier parts of this podcast episode, but we
42:01
Speaker 1: have to cover things in full. And there are surgeons
42:04
Speaker 1: who specialize in what's known as ethnic rhinoplasty, with the
42:08
Speaker 1: idea that, uh, and there's really no other way to
42:11
Speaker 1: say it, then they will augment your nose to look
42:14
Speaker 1: more uh, European or Caucasian, if that's something that you're
42:19
Speaker 1: looking for. Yeah, and I mean today it's this kind
42:22
Speaker 1: of it's some I think in some ways it still
42:26
Speaker 1: ties into this idea of you know, I could look
42:29
Speaker 1: more beautiful than I do if I have this. It's
42:33
Speaker 1: definitely a far cry from I need to pass or
42:37
Speaker 1: fit in so I can get a job or marry
42:39
Speaker 1: a husband, like it was in America in the fifties
42:42
Speaker 1: and sixties as a big driver for nose jobs. Um.
42:47
Speaker 1: But then I think if we trace it back to
42:49
Speaker 1: like the nineteenth century was Jacques Joseph Um, there was
42:52
Speaker 1: this idea that you could you could judge a person's
42:55
Speaker 1: moral character based on their nose. Right, Oh, absolutely, I
42:59
Speaker 1: mean if you had just a very sort of um,
43:03
Speaker 1: smallish straight nose. It was sort of a sign of
43:07
Speaker 1: a higher class. If you had any sort of like
43:10
Speaker 1: bumps or hooks to your nose, you were maybe someone
43:14
Speaker 1: to not be trusted. And these all come from the
43:17
Speaker 1: oldest like dirty ethnic stereotypes that have been around since
43:21
Speaker 1: time in Memoriam and you know knows Joseph was one,
43:25
Speaker 1: like you said, he was one of those doctors that
43:27
Speaker 1: and these are their words that they're using, but you know,
43:30
Speaker 1: they called it the defect of Jewish uh nostrility, which
43:34
Speaker 1: is an actual word, and it would help people, you know,
43:39
Speaker 1: pass at a time when being Jewish was either looked
43:43
Speaker 1: down upon or could threaten your life or like you said,
43:46
Speaker 1: maybe uh lead you to not getting a job as
43:50
Speaker 1: easily as you should based on your qualifications. Yep, dropped
43:53
Speaker 1: the burg or the steam from your last stame and
43:55
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're just a playing Jane, average
43:57
Speaker 1: American mid century Joe or Jane. That's right. So um,
44:02
Speaker 1: that was actually like Jacques Joseph. And then the advent
44:05
Speaker 1: of like readily available plastic surgery was it was like
44:09
Speaker 1: hugely helped along, um by this idea that Jewish people
44:13
Speaker 1: just kind of needed to do to do this and
44:15
Speaker 1: apparently became such a rite of passage Chuck that by
44:18
Speaker 1: like the fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties, like it was a
44:22
Speaker 1: pretty routine sweet sixteen gift for Jewish girls in America
44:27
Speaker 1: to get their parents would buy them a nose job.
44:29
Speaker 1: That was just kind of how it went. Um, which
44:33
Speaker 1: is extraordinarily sad. Um. But if you, if you kind
44:38
Speaker 1: of can take that and hold it for a second,
44:40
Speaker 1: it kind of highlights just how far the younger generations
44:44
Speaker 1: of today have come in relation to that. Because moms
44:48
Speaker 1: whose parents bought their nose job when they were sixteen
44:52
Speaker 1: or like going to to offer it to their kids,
44:54
Speaker 1: their daughters in particular now, and their daughters are like,
44:58
Speaker 1: what are you crazy now them, I'm final with my nose.
45:00
Speaker 1: I love my nose. Why do you not like my nose?
45:02
Speaker 1: Leave me alone? Um? And that seems to be like
45:05
Speaker 1: getting more increasingly prevalent. Yeah. I mean I think Generation
45:09
Speaker 1: Z is uh leading the charge on accepting who you
45:13
Speaker 1: are and what you look like and what you're shaped like. Uh.
45:16
Speaker 1: And it's it's great. I mean, we're Generation X, so
45:19
Speaker 1: we've we see that underneath us, and we came from
45:23
Speaker 1: seeing boomers above us that had the moms and the
45:26
Speaker 1: dads were like, hey, why don't you get a nose job, honey,
45:29
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So we're just sort of caught
45:31
Speaker 1: in the middle in this, uh, in a no man's
45:34
Speaker 1: land almost of the of this generational shift. It seems like, Yeah,
45:38
Speaker 1: but I think there are plenty of gen xers that
45:40
Speaker 1: followed in that tradition of of getting the nose job
45:43
Speaker 1: around age sixteen or something like that. Well, yeah, I
45:46
Speaker 1: think because the influence of the boomers. I'm not blaming
45:48
Speaker 1: boomers for everything but us. In that article about the
45:51
Speaker 1: actress Jennifer Gray and very famously had a larger nose
45:58
Speaker 1: that I thought looked great and then had a surgery
46:01
Speaker 1: where she had a very different notes completely changed the
46:03
Speaker 1: way she looked. And she said in that article she's
46:05
Speaker 1: talking about it a lot more now that her mom,
46:08
Speaker 1: who was an actor, said, you know, she was the
46:10
Speaker 1: one that encouraged her and said, honey, why don't you
46:12
Speaker 1: go get this done. You'll be more easily cast in rolls.
46:15
Speaker 1: And she did. And I think she feels like and
46:18
Speaker 1: I think she's probably right suffered from her new nose
46:22
Speaker 1: about not being cast. Yeah, the opposite happened of the
46:25
Speaker 1: intended effect, where her her roles dried up. Like she
46:28
Speaker 1: went from I'm a successful movie star with my nose
46:33
Speaker 1: to changing her nose to not you know, to kind
46:36
Speaker 1: of falling out of limelight and not getting work like before.
46:39
Speaker 1: She says she regretted her um nose job, actually two
46:42
Speaker 1: of them. She got two of them because she wasn't
46:44
Speaker 1: happy with the first one, and she Um, I don't
46:48
Speaker 1: know if she's ever toyed with the idea. I'm sure
46:50
Speaker 1: she has, but I don't I didn't read it. But
46:54
Speaker 1: there's a there's a trend among people who are dissatisfied
46:57
Speaker 1: with having gotten a nose job, who are going back
47:00
Speaker 1: to basically get what's called a reverse nose job, which
47:03
Speaker 1: is as one I think cosmetic surgeon put it, putting
47:06
Speaker 1: the bump back in. Yeah. And I don't think if
47:09
Speaker 1: that's something that like a Jennifer Gray is considering anymore,
47:12
Speaker 1: because she's kind of you know, uh close the loop
47:16
Speaker 1: on that. But I think it's a pretty cool thing
47:19
Speaker 1: that people are saying, go back and give me like
47:22
Speaker 1: embracing themselves now. Um. As far as Jennifer Grey goes.
47:26
Speaker 1: I mean, there's she was the crush of a lot
47:29
Speaker 1: of dudes our age thanks to Dirty Dancing and Genie
47:33
Speaker 1: Bueller Uh. And I remember when that happened, like she
47:37
Speaker 1: just the new cycle wasn't as invasive back then in
47:41
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, so I didn't I think I
47:43
Speaker 1: didn't even know Jennifer Gray just kind of went away. Uh.
47:46
Speaker 1: And then when I saw pictures of yours, you know,
47:48
Speaker 1: when it I finally saw a photo of her with
47:50
Speaker 1: the new nose, It's like, oh my god, is that
47:52
Speaker 1: even Jennifer Gray, because it was just such a signature
47:56
Speaker 1: look for her, And anyway, I loved Genie Bueler. That
47:59
Speaker 1: is what I'm say. It is startling, the difference that
48:02
Speaker 1: a nose job can make. Like if you look at
48:04
Speaker 1: and there is a lot of before and after pictures
48:07
Speaker 1: on the Internet of um Rhino Plassy, the it's incredible
48:12
Speaker 1: the difference that it makes, the the effect that just
48:15
Speaker 1: slight changes to the nose have on the entire look,
48:19
Speaker 1: the entire face of the person that it very frequently
48:23
Speaker 1: makes them look like an entirely different person. Jennifer Grace
48:26
Speaker 1: definitely one of those people. She looks just like she
48:28
Speaker 1: looks like a different person, and not like she looks
48:30
Speaker 1: like a different person because she had a bunch of
48:32
Speaker 1: work done. She looks like a different person because she
48:34
Speaker 1: has a different nose now. And yeah, I think it
48:37
Speaker 1: was just so characteristic of her. Um, she's not the
48:40
Speaker 1: only one who regretted getting a nose job famous person. Um.
48:44
Speaker 1: I believe Bella Hadid did as well. Um. I read
48:48
Speaker 1: that she was quoted as saying that she wishes she
48:50
Speaker 1: kept the nose of her ancestors because she thinks she
48:52
Speaker 1: probably would have grown into it or grown to like it. Um.
48:57
Speaker 1: And so I mean, at least there's options of going
48:58
Speaker 1: back and getting it, you know, redone the way it
49:01
Speaker 1: was before. But um, it's definitely it definitely gives you
49:04
Speaker 1: pause to say, like, okay, if you if you're gonna
49:06
Speaker 1: do this, like ask yourself, is somebody pressuring you to
49:08
Speaker 1: do this? Um? Are you old enough to really kind
49:11
Speaker 1: of make a decision like this, has your nose grown?
49:15
Speaker 1: Are you old enough so that your nose has taken
49:17
Speaker 1: what's probably going to be its final shape or your face?
49:20
Speaker 1: There's a lot of questions for you to to to
49:22
Speaker 1: really consider and if you go to a decent plastic surgeon.
49:25
Speaker 1: They should be helping you consider these questions. Um, and
49:30
Speaker 1: then lastly you got anything else, Well, I do think
49:34
Speaker 1: we should mention Iranian women because you kind of tease
49:36
Speaker 1: that out at the beginning. Uh, they have some of
49:39
Speaker 1: the highest rates of rhinoplastic in the world, at a
49:41
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty cases for every one hundred thousand. Uh people.
49:46
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's says people and not women,
49:49
Speaker 1: but either way, a very high rate. And uh, you know,
49:53
Speaker 1: there was there was an article in the l A
49:55
Speaker 1: Times and a woman from Tehran said women do nose
49:58
Speaker 1: jobs in Iran because it's the only part of their
50:00
Speaker 1: body they can show in society. We have to wear
50:03
Speaker 1: a scarf over our hair, so we get a nose
50:05
Speaker 1: job to make ourselves beautiful. And it starts in high school.
50:08
Speaker 1: And but apparently even there, there were much more severe
50:12
Speaker 1: rhino plastics perform in Iran in previous generations, much more
50:16
Speaker 1: dramatic reshapings. And now there are more subtle changes that
50:22
Speaker 1: still embrace the ethnic look of Iranian and Persian women.
50:26
Speaker 1: So and that seems to be sort of happening everywhere. Yeah. Um,
50:31
Speaker 1: so what I was hoping to bring up at least
50:34
Speaker 1: to finish on is that UM because of all those
50:36
Speaker 1: questions that you need to ask yourself, Like there's a
50:39
Speaker 1: lot of concern about how how young should you be
50:41
Speaker 1: before you start thinking about getting a nose job or
50:44
Speaker 1: any kind of plastic surgery. And there's apparently a big,
50:47
Speaker 1: big problem on TikTok where there's plastic surgery UM targeting,
50:52
Speaker 1: like ads for plastic surgeons targeting UM users as young
50:56
Speaker 1: as fourteen. I think business insiders set up like a
50:59
Speaker 1: fake profile and set their age to fourteen, and they
51:02
Speaker 1: scrolled for eight minutes before they started getting plastic surgery
51:05
Speaker 1: videos served to them. And I guess TikTok band outright
51:09
Speaker 1: plastic surgeon adds. But the plastic surgeons have figured out like, Okay,
51:13
Speaker 1: well I'll just make a video talking about how great
51:15
Speaker 1: plastic surgery is. And it's all basically the same UM.
51:19
Speaker 1: So it's a it's a huge problem, and you can
51:20
Speaker 1: understand like, if you're fourteen years old, that's probably not
51:24
Speaker 1: a good time for you to be thinking solo about
51:26
Speaker 1: whether you want a nose job or something like that.
51:29
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, I mean it's certainly a lot to
51:34
Speaker 1: weigh for sure. Uh, without the help of a social
51:37
Speaker 1: media giant pushing you one way or another, you know
51:41
Speaker 1: that's right. Uh, well, Chuck said that's right, and he
51:44
Speaker 1: already said he doesn't have anything else. So, uh, if
51:47
Speaker 1: you want to know more about rhino plastic, go read
51:50
Speaker 1: up on it, especially if you're considering getting it yourself.
51:53
Speaker 1: Inform yourself. And since I said that it's time for
51:56
Speaker 1: a listener mail, that's right to the listener. Man, we
52:02
Speaker 1: tease and I think we should do you have it
52:04
Speaker 1: pulled up. We should both kind of go through these, Okay,
52:07
Speaker 1: since it's a long wind. We got a lot of
52:08
Speaker 1: great grilled cheese tips from listeners, and the first one
52:12
Speaker 1: we got was from Pablo Quintana, who said, when I
52:16
Speaker 1: do grilled cheeses, I make them using manchego cheese or
52:20
Speaker 1: whackin cheese, grilled olive oil tomato with butter on rye
52:27
Speaker 1: or sour dough paired with either tomato, soup, clam chowder,
52:30
Speaker 1: god lintil, super even chili, depending on the occasion. You're
52:34
Speaker 1: doing it right. Yeah, Pablo knows what he's doing. Um So,
52:37
Speaker 1: after Pablo, we have Robin Russo, who labels themselves a
52:42
Speaker 1: Wisconsin cheese lover, they say, try spreading pure maple syrup
52:46
Speaker 1: on the bread and use Colby cheese. Colby melt very evenly,
52:50
Speaker 1: so it's perfect. The syrup gives the nice sweetness balanced
52:53
Speaker 1: by the salt in the cheese, and then as an aside,
52:56
Speaker 1: just to show off. Also, if you ever eat fresh
52:58
Speaker 1: squeaky cheese curds, get them a cocktails shrimp sauce first.
53:01
Speaker 1: It's so good you'll thank me later. So there's two
53:04
Speaker 1: tips from Robin Russo. That sounds really good. That syrup
53:08
Speaker 1: that sounds like something you could cut into quarters and
53:11
Speaker 1: serve at a cocktail park. Yeah, it sounds so delicious. Uh.
53:17
Speaker 1: Erica Erica Tyler says, use brioche bread if you're living
53:22
Speaker 1: your best life, but normal bread will also work. Cover
53:25
Speaker 1: the outside with butter, then dip that buttered side in parmesan.
53:31
Speaker 1: The cheese inside is GOODA or munster both are delicious.
53:34
Speaker 1: I learned this method from that Dude can Cook on YouTube.
53:37
Speaker 1: Hats off to both. Ruth Ann l says, make your
53:41
Speaker 1: grilled cheese, but add dijon mustard to the inside. Takes
53:44
Speaker 1: it to an awesome level of omptuousness. Yeah, I'm not
53:49
Speaker 1: under the mustard. But I bet mustard lovers would love
53:51
Speaker 1: that for sure. Baard Swedman says, press a couple of
53:55
Speaker 1: garlic clothes into a small bowl of cream cheese and
54:00
Speaker 1: mix that. Uh, there you go, use that as your
54:03
Speaker 1: cheese filler in a grilled cheese and you, my friends,
54:05
Speaker 1: have entered flavor country. You can think Allison, who is
54:09
Speaker 1: Baird's wife who introduced Baird to the podcast, and the
54:13
Speaker 1: recipe that sounds really really awesome. I love cream cheese,
54:17
Speaker 1: it doesn't it ties into A couple of other people
54:19
Speaker 1: have sent in, including Virginia Bestwick of Alberta, Canada. So
54:23
Speaker 1: she says, I like my grilled cheese with old cheddar
54:26
Speaker 1: and garlic borson, And I think garlic boorson is like
54:29
Speaker 1: it's like a cream cheese spread with garlic in it.
54:32
Speaker 1: So that's kind of like Alison is doing the deconstructed version.
54:36
Speaker 1: This makes me so hungry. Mike Frank says, this mayo
54:39
Speaker 1: on one side, butter on the other, white cheese, cream cheese,
54:44
Speaker 1: bread or better yet, borson. Uh is a Borsen or
54:48
Speaker 1: borson all right? Creamy and tangy without throwing off the bread.
54:53
Speaker 1: The bread cheese ratio boom. There you have it, good
54:56
Speaker 1: old grilled cheese. Also love truugh truff hot sauce on
54:59
Speaker 1: the grilled cheese. It's unique hot sauce made with truffles
55:03
Speaker 1: and truffle oil, although we know that synthetic. Mike get
55:06
Speaker 1: us into our episode on truffles. He said, it's pretty niche,
55:09
Speaker 1: but really great on grilled cheese. Thanks for that, Mike.
55:11
Speaker 1: And here's one from Jesse Lee of Taos, New Mexico, who,
55:15
Speaker 1: over the deafening hum said, one of my favorite things
55:19
Speaker 1: to dip a grilled cheese in is salsa. Try it
55:22
Speaker 1: out with your next one and thank me later. Nice, simple, simple,
55:26
Speaker 1: but awesome. But that's really good. Uh. This is a
55:30
Speaker 1: professional chef and I'm gonna go to this restaurant. Want
55:32
Speaker 1: to go to Savannah The bell Weather House in Savannah, Georgia,
55:35
Speaker 1: And chef Ryan white Buck explains why mayo is better.
55:40
Speaker 1: There's a little bit of a j Kenji Lopez alt
55:42
Speaker 1: food science explanation which I always loved. Butter contains dissolved
55:46
Speaker 1: milk solids that when melted, separate and can sog up
55:50
Speaker 1: a slice of bread. Mayo, however, is oil and multified
55:53
Speaker 1: with a very small amount of egg, yolk, mustard, and vinegar.
55:56
Speaker 1: Using mayo for grilled cheese will crisp the bread without
55:59
Speaker 1: sogging it up, and the mustard and vinegar will season
56:01
Speaker 1: the sandwich with spicy and charred elements. These flavors, peared
56:04
Speaker 1: with the hints of sweet from the bread and the
56:06
Speaker 1: unctuous savory equality of cheese, paints a complete taste profile
56:10
Speaker 1: for the baalate in a fashion similar to how complimentary
56:14
Speaker 1: colors work. Very nice the more the Bell weather House
56:17
Speaker 1: and Savannah Yeah for s out the food. Uh. And
56:20
Speaker 1: then the last one is from Kayla ruhr Um and
56:23
Speaker 1: she does not have a tip, but she has a
56:25
Speaker 1: recollection from playing the Sims. She said. Starting in early
56:29
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, the Sims added a secret grilled
56:32
Speaker 1: cheese aspiration to their little virtual lives. If you played
56:36
Speaker 1: the Sims, you could create a secondary aspiration in life
56:39
Speaker 1: which made your sim obsess over grilled cheese. If they cooked,
56:43
Speaker 1: they cooked that. If they painted, they painted grilled cheese.
56:45
Speaker 1: And in their backlog of precious memories, you'd see where
56:48
Speaker 1: they finally remembered a time where they ate grilled cheese,
56:51
Speaker 1: and the common underneath would read grilled cheese my favorite.
56:55
Speaker 1: Too funny, agreed Kayla, that is too funny and pretty interesting.
56:59
Speaker 1: I never knew that. And he actually said she's not
57:01
Speaker 1: sure if it's related to that two thousand seven craft money.
57:04
Speaker 1: Remember perhaps been like a billion plus on grilled cheeses. Yeah.
57:09
Speaker 1: The astute listener, by the way, unless Jerry cuts it out,
57:12
Speaker 1: will literally hear my stomach girl right then during that
57:14
Speaker 1: plus when Jerry, I hope you don't cut that out.
57:19
Speaker 1: Uh oh, that's it. If you want to be like Kayla, Ryan, Jesse, Mike,
57:24
Speaker 1: Virginia baired, Ruth, Anne, Erica, Robin, and Pablo and write
57:29
Speaker 1: to us with whatever you have to say, you can
57:32
Speaker 1: send it via email to Stuff Podcasts at iHeart radio
57:36
Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production of
57:41
Speaker 1: iHeart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the
57:45
Speaker 1: i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
57:48
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.