Latest / Beautifully Complex / 316: Finding Your Kid’s Just Right Balance, with Chris Taylor, LCSW-C

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316: Finding Your Kid’s Just Right Balance, with Chris Taylor, LCSW-C · Beautifully Complex

0:03
Speaker 1: For sure, there has to be trust because in the
0:06
Speaker 1: parent therapy you're really trying to shape that environment and
0:09
Speaker 1: create that trust. There's this quote. I love this quote,
0:13
Speaker 1: but it's that a child's behavior is irrelevant until the
0:17
Speaker 1: environment is able to effectively support progress.
0:22
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast, where I share insights
0:26
Speaker 2: and strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids straight from the trenches.
0:30
Speaker 2: I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author
0:34
Speaker 2: and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey
0:37
Speaker 2: of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started. Welcome back
0:45
Speaker 2: to Beautifully Complex everyone. I am joined today by Chris Taylor,
0:50
Speaker 2: and we're going to talk about just right balance. We've
0:55
Speaker 2: talked many times on the podcast about it just write challenge,
0:58
Speaker 2: but this is different. We're talking about just right balance
1:01
Speaker 2: and I'm really excited to have this conversation and to
1:05
Speaker 2: help parents help they're struggling kids. First, Chris, will you
1:10
Speaker 2: start by letting everybody know who you are and what
1:12
Speaker 2: you do.
1:13
Speaker 1: So my name is Chris Taylor. I am a therapist
1:16
Speaker 1: at Rathbone and Associates here in BETHOSDA, Maryland, and I'm
1:22
Speaker 1: happy to.
1:22
Speaker 2: Be here, fantastic. What do you want to tell us
1:25
Speaker 2: about just right balance? How do are you defining that?
1:29
Speaker 2: And why is it something that we're here talking about?
1:31
Speaker 2: Why is it so important?
1:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know a lot of parents struggle to find
1:37
Speaker 1: that balance between how much do I push my child
1:41
Speaker 1: and how much do I, you know, not push my child,
1:45
Speaker 1: And it's a very difficult balancing act. I mean, and
1:48
Speaker 1: then much less for kids that have issues and need
1:51
Speaker 1: special support. So that's how I would really define it.
1:56
Speaker 1: You know, we know that with the brain, in order
1:58
Speaker 1: to grow, in order to to learn, we need to
2:02
Speaker 1: push our kids. They need to be right on that edge.
2:05
Speaker 1: You know, when you're learning something, you're always moving toward
2:09
Speaker 1: that uncertainty and you're moving towards something you don't know.
2:12
Speaker 1: So the problem can happen when we know that's what
2:17
Speaker 1: kids need. But then some kids moving toward uncertainty creates
2:23
Speaker 1: a lot of anxiety and stress. So you've got this
2:26
Speaker 1: issue and it's really hard to find that balance. And
2:31
Speaker 1: so what I do in therapy with parents, I work
2:35
Speaker 1: with kids and parents, but what I do in therapy
2:39
Speaker 1: with parents is try to help them find that balance
2:43
Speaker 1: and to create an environment where a child can grow.
2:46
Speaker 2: Basically, Yeah, it is so difficult to figure out how
2:50
Speaker 2: much to push without breaking our kids, right, especially our
2:56
Speaker 2: kids are in neudivergent on the spectrum. And I have
2:59
Speaker 2: a very avoidant kid now young adult, who really didn't
3:05
Speaker 2: respond to being pushed in any way, shape or form, right,
3:08
Speaker 2: other than to shut down and pull back and resist.
3:12
Speaker 2: And so how do we find that sweet spot, yeah,
3:17
Speaker 2: where we're helping them grow without adding trauma right into
3:22
Speaker 2: this regulation and all of those things.
3:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the first step is really understanding our
3:28
Speaker 1: individual child, right, So you have to understand your child,
3:33
Speaker 1: and you have to understand what they can tolerate what
3:37
Speaker 1: they can't. And I would say, you know, so it's
3:41
Speaker 1: learning to be more of a strategic parent, right because
3:46
Speaker 1: you know, typically with a lot of just sort of
3:49
Speaker 1: good enough parenting, it's like, well, with good enough parenting,
3:52
Speaker 1: you might push a kid and push them too far
3:56
Speaker 1: and then they get upset. But within some kids, as
3:59
Speaker 1: you're saying, they're just going to completely fall apart. And
4:02
Speaker 1: so it's really teeming with your child, so they know,
4:07
Speaker 1: and it's creating an environment in your house or you know,
4:11
Speaker 1: I worked in the school system for years two in
4:13
Speaker 1: a classroom where a child knows that they are going
4:17
Speaker 1: to be heard and understood and you have that relationship
4:21
Speaker 1: with them, I think that is a big key.
4:25
Speaker 2: So there has to be trust there, right to bridge
4:29
Speaker 2: that gap between what they're comfortable with and them being
4:32
Speaker 2: willing to go outside of their comfort zone a little, right.
4:35
Speaker 1: For sure. For sure, there has to be trust because
4:39
Speaker 1: in the parent therapy you're really trying to shape that
4:42
Speaker 1: environment and create that trust. There's this quote. I love
4:45
Speaker 1: this quote, but it's that a child's behavior is irrelevant
4:49
Speaker 1: until the environment is able to effectively support progress. So
4:55
Speaker 1: it's kind of getting to what you were just talking
4:58
Speaker 1: about in turns of of how do I create that trust?
5:02
Speaker 1: Because as you know, I always say, having kids makes
5:06
Speaker 1: you look in the mirror at yourself as a parent, right,
5:09
Speaker 1: because you see yourself reacting to your child in ways
5:13
Speaker 1: like I cannot believe I just said that to my kid,
5:16
Speaker 1: or I cannot believe I, you know, yelled and screamed,
5:18
Speaker 1: or you know. And I think that's where you know,
5:22
Speaker 1: parents will come into therapy and they're trying to figure out,
5:25
Speaker 1: like how do I control my own my own emotions,
5:29
Speaker 1: what do I need to do because that can break
5:32
Speaker 1: down the trust we were just talking about. Yeah, and
5:36
Speaker 1: you know, so we find that parents kind of fall
5:38
Speaker 1: onto you know, we're talking about that sweet spot, right.
5:42
Speaker 1: So there's parents that are really protective and they might
5:46
Speaker 1: not want to push enough and they're kind of walking
5:49
Speaker 1: on eggshells in their house. And then their parents on
5:52
Speaker 1: the other side of the spectrum might be more demanding
5:55
Speaker 1: and they maybe they push too much for their child.
5:59
Speaker 1: And we're trying to find that right in the center,
6:01
Speaker 1: right in the middle spot, and you know, there's some
6:05
Speaker 1: trial and error obviously to it. I think one of
6:08
Speaker 1: the biggest steps is really learning how to sort of
6:11
Speaker 1: control your own emotions, because when you're doing that, you're
6:14
Speaker 1: now modeling for your child how to control their emotions.
6:19
Speaker 1: And that's extremely hard to do, as you know with
6:23
Speaker 1: any kid, but with a kid that needs extra supports.
6:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, when we're disregulated, we can't help a kid regulate.
6:32
Speaker 2: You know, if you have a dysregulated kid and a
6:33
Speaker 2: disregulated adult, there's not going to be any regulation there
6:37
Speaker 2: until somebody walks away and is able to get regulated exactly.
6:41
Speaker 1: So oftentimes that's a big piece of the puzzle. The
6:44
Speaker 1: parent work Yeah, because as you become disregulated, or as
6:50
Speaker 1: the child becomes disregulated, you know, you lose rationality, you
6:54
Speaker 1: can't think straight. You're in your Olympics system, which is
6:58
Speaker 1: that emotional part of the brain. Yeah, and so what
7:02
Speaker 1: you do as a parent in that place is going
7:05
Speaker 1: to now model for your child. So, you know, it's
7:08
Speaker 1: sometimes teaching parents' skills how to sometimes pull back if
7:13
Speaker 1: they're starting to get angry, frustrated, falling apart. I've had
7:17
Speaker 1: some parents where I've had to teach them to just
7:20
Speaker 1: walk away. And it's so hard to do, you know.
7:24
Speaker 1: I mean, here, I teach this, and then I go
7:26
Speaker 1: home and I I see the same thing.
7:30
Speaker 2: Right, We're all human. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's
7:35
Speaker 2: I think. You know, A big turning point for me
7:37
Speaker 2: and my own parenting was figuring out that I was
7:41
Speaker 2: the one who needed to be in control, not in
7:44
Speaker 2: a controlling way, but I could control myself. And that's
7:48
Speaker 2: where I had to start. And I had to learn
7:51
Speaker 2: how to show up with the energy and the mindset
7:55
Speaker 2: that was actually going to be helpful to my kid.
7:57
Speaker 2: And if I was just upset because they were up,
8:00
Speaker 2: that that's not helpful. It's not going to change anything.
8:03
Speaker 2: As you were talking, the word consistency came to me. Yeah,
8:07
Speaker 2: thinking that consistency is going to be really important to
8:13
Speaker 2: not only build drust, but to also build willingness to
8:16
Speaker 2: be challenged.
8:17
Speaker 1: Yeah.
8:17
Speaker 2: Would you agree with that?
8:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say you do need consistency. But I'll
8:22
Speaker 1: tell you sometimes I have parents that come in and
8:26
Speaker 1: they get like almost caught in this trap about the
8:28
Speaker 1: word consistency, because it's like, no, he has to be punished,
8:32
Speaker 1: he needs to be punished here.
8:33
Speaker 2: We have to be.
8:34
Speaker 1: Consistent, you know. And so I like the word a
8:38
Speaker 1: consistency is good. But I do like the word predictability predictable, yeah,
8:43
Speaker 1: because predictability lowers anxiety, and a lot of times it's
8:49
Speaker 1: where you are in the process. Sometimes with what we
8:52
Speaker 1: call these super censor kids, these kids that you know,
8:56
Speaker 1: they have really strong feelings and they take a long
8:58
Speaker 1: time to calm down. And what can start to happen
9:02
Speaker 1: is that these kids can learn from the outside environment
9:07
Speaker 1: and from sometimes in the home that their feelings and
9:11
Speaker 1: their thoughts don't make sense, that it is something wrong
9:16
Speaker 1: with them. And the idea is you don't make sense,
9:19
Speaker 1: and so you get this almost over exaggerated reaction sometimes
9:24
Speaker 1: to things right, So when creating that balance, we're trying
9:28
Speaker 1: to let them know that they do make sense given
9:32
Speaker 1: who they are. Given you know, who they are as
9:34
Speaker 1: an individual person in the environment that they come from.
9:38
Speaker 1: You can always say that somebody's feelings make sense. You
9:41
Speaker 1: don't necessarily have to agree with somebody's feeling, but if
9:45
Speaker 1: you put yourself in somebody else's shoes, you know, given
9:48
Speaker 1: their background and their history, you'll see that their feeling
9:52
Speaker 1: does make sense. So you can always validate a feeling.
9:55
Speaker 1: And I think we teach parents a lot of skills
9:59
Speaker 1: about valid because number one, when a child is starting
10:04
Speaker 1: to get disregulated, sometimes you can catch them with some
10:07
Speaker 1: validation and it can kind of pull them back. Not always,
10:11
Speaker 1: you know, if it gets too high and they lose
10:13
Speaker 1: too much rationality, then you know, sometimes you're just you know,
10:17
Speaker 1: speaking to them is you know you're not going to
10:19
Speaker 1: get anywhere at that point. But so yeah, I mean,
10:23
Speaker 1: you're talking about consistency and you're talking about predictability. I
10:26
Speaker 1: just think it's letting them know that I am going
10:29
Speaker 1: to be in your corner. When I have one of
10:32
Speaker 1: my moments, I go back to my kids and I
10:34
Speaker 1: have three boys at home, and you know, I apologize
10:38
Speaker 1: to them, right because I'm modeling for them how to
10:42
Speaker 1: be and how to create a relationship. So all those
10:46
Speaker 1: things are really important. Yeah.
10:50
Speaker 2: And predictability in the ways that you challenge and how
10:56
Speaker 2: much you challenge maybe, yeah, right, So like if I
10:59
Speaker 2: kind of if I'm not challenging my kid and then
11:01
Speaker 2: suddenly I'm really pushing, yeah, it's not going to work right, right.
11:06
Speaker 2: But if I'm more consistently just really tiny challenges.
11:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I like that idea of sometimes we'll do
11:14
Speaker 1: a hierarchy of what's hard for kids, you know, from
11:18
Speaker 1: one to ten, so ten being you know, the hardest
11:21
Speaker 1: and one being you know a little bit easier, and
11:23
Speaker 1: you can work your way kind of up that hierarchy
11:26
Speaker 1: in terms of trying to challenge them because you know,
11:29
Speaker 1: like like I said, we need those challenges, you know,
11:32
Speaker 1: to grow to learn. I mean, so I'll often say
11:35
Speaker 1: to kids about this idea. I want my kids to
11:38
Speaker 1: learn how to struggle, right, they need to know what
11:42
Speaker 1: that feels like and that they can get through that feeling,
11:46
Speaker 1: not avoid the feeling, not push it away, but get
11:51
Speaker 1: through the feeling. So you know, I'll say to my
11:54
Speaker 1: kids sometimes about this idea of struggling. For example, like
11:58
Speaker 1: if I say to you, okay, what's one plus one
12:01
Speaker 1: and you say, well, okay, two, what's two plus one? Three? Okay?
12:06
Speaker 1: How are you doing? How you are you learning something?
12:08
Speaker 1: It's like, no, you're not learning anything because you're not struggling. So,
12:13
Speaker 1: like I said at the beginning, you've got to be
12:15
Speaker 1: right on that edge to grow to actually get those
12:19
Speaker 1: neurons to connect. They connect through struggle. So sometimes we'll push,
12:25
Speaker 1: and you know, every day is a different day. One
12:27
Speaker 1: day that worked, one day it didn't. You know, you're
12:31
Speaker 1: trying to read your child. You're trying to see where
12:33
Speaker 1: he or she is, and you're trying to see how
12:37
Speaker 1: much you can push. We try to come up with
12:39
Speaker 1: plans with kids. Kids don't always see sort of the
12:43
Speaker 1: bigger picture like why do I need to do this? Right?
12:47
Speaker 1: Why am I this doesn't feel good? So I'm not
12:51
Speaker 1: going to do it? Yep kind of thing.
12:53
Speaker 2: Right, Yep, been there, done that.
12:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, they don't see that bigger picture of down the road.
13:00
Speaker 1: How if they can struggle and get through something that
13:05
Speaker 1: then on the other side it's like, oh, okay, I
13:08
Speaker 1: learned to do something. So, for example, a lot of
13:10
Speaker 1: times in therapy, I'll talk to the kids about the
13:14
Speaker 1: idea when I was when I was about three years old,
13:17
Speaker 1: I thought there was a monster under my bed, right,
13:20
Speaker 1: pretty common, pretty common thing. I think a lot of
13:23
Speaker 1: therapists use as an example. And if you think about that,
13:27
Speaker 1: I mean what I did was I ran to my
13:29
Speaker 1: parents' room and I wanted to sleep in their bed, right,
13:35
Speaker 1: So I did that. I did that a number of times.
13:37
Speaker 1: But if you think about that, it's like, in the
13:40
Speaker 1: short term that worked, my anxiety went down, which is
13:44
Speaker 1: what I was looking for, right, But in the long term,
13:47
Speaker 1: I didn't learn anything. I didn't grow. So what I
13:53
Speaker 1: ended up learning to do as a three year old,
13:57
Speaker 1: of course, my dad showed me that underneath the bed. Look,
14:00
Speaker 1: there's nothing under the bed, and my kid logic would
14:04
Speaker 1: kick in and be like, well, that's because the monster
14:06
Speaker 1: moved to the closet because my dad's in the room
14:09
Speaker 1: kind of thing, right, So what I eventually had to
14:13
Speaker 1: learn to do was be in that dark room and
14:18
Speaker 1: expose myself to be in that dark room, and my
14:22
Speaker 1: anxiety went up and it rose, and then over time
14:28
Speaker 1: nothing bad happened. It started to come down. I started
14:33
Speaker 1: to get used to the feeling. I started to habituate
14:37
Speaker 1: to the feeling. Yeah, that's an important thing to learn
14:41
Speaker 1: to do, because you start to teach a child that
14:44
Speaker 1: they can get through difficult feelings. And I think sometimes
14:48
Speaker 1: we were taught. I mentioned, you know, there's sometimes protective
14:51
Speaker 1: parents and demanding parents. Sometimes a protective parent won't push
14:57
Speaker 1: enough and allow their child to feel a feeling, You
15:00
Speaker 1: to feel that feeling. I just want you to be happy, ye, right,
15:05
Speaker 1: and that demanding parents like what do you you know,
15:07
Speaker 1: get in there, there's nothing, there's nothing in there, right,
15:10
Speaker 1: totally invalidating my feelings of fear. You know, get in there,
15:16
Speaker 1: there's nothing in there, you know, Stop being a whimp.
15:18
Speaker 1: I guess that would be sort of the extreme version, right.
15:23
Speaker 1: So I'd say that sweet spot is having that conversation,
15:27
Speaker 1: having a trust saying we're going to try to go
15:29
Speaker 1: into this dark room, and have you learned to get
15:32
Speaker 1: used to this? You can do it right, you know.
15:36
Speaker 1: So the first night my anxiety goes up, nothing happens,
15:41
Speaker 1: it starts to come down. My understanding of this is
15:44
Speaker 1: that your brain just actually starts to get bored. It
15:47
Speaker 1: gets bored, with the idea that there's something you know,
15:51
Speaker 1: and you know there's no monster into the bed. Now,
15:53
Speaker 1: of course, that whole system, that whole anxiety system is
15:58
Speaker 1: set up. You know, if there is danger that we
16:02
Speaker 1: would fight, flight or freeze get out of there, right. Yeah,
16:06
Speaker 1: So that's I think that's an invaluable lesson when you
16:10
Speaker 1: learn that as a young kid that you can hang
16:12
Speaker 1: in and get through a feeling and that your parents
16:15
Speaker 1: are there to back you up and validate you and
16:19
Speaker 1: sometimes push you and listen to you. And I think
16:24
Speaker 1: that's really how you find the sweet spot.
16:37
Speaker 2: Experiencing things go well, whire's our brain, you know, We're
16:41
Speaker 2: always making these neural connections, right, and so yeah, if
16:45
Speaker 2: we are super worried, that keeps happening in those situations.
16:49
Speaker 2: But if we can experience that we can get through
16:52
Speaker 2: that thing and that the worst isn't going to happen
16:55
Speaker 2: like we fear, then the next time it's easier. I
16:59
Speaker 2: having die and I've really had to push myself over
17:02
Speaker 2: the years, and and you know, I was terrified to
17:06
Speaker 2: give a talk in front of people in person, and
17:10
Speaker 2: finally I was like, you know what, I really want
17:12
Speaker 2: to do this. I'm going to do it, and I
17:14
Speaker 2: thought I was going to die. Yes, Like I literally
17:17
Speaker 2: thought it was going to kill me waiting for my turn.
17:21
Speaker 2: But then after I was like, oh, I can say
17:24
Speaker 2: yes to this next time. This is no big deal.
17:26
Speaker 2: Like I didn't die, I didn't make a fool of myself,
17:29
Speaker 2: you know. And like I a couple of years ago
17:32
Speaker 2: had surgery for the first time, I was terrified, exactly terrified.
17:37
Speaker 2: Now I probably have to have surgery again. I just
17:42
Speaker 2: found out, and I'm like, Okay, I can do that.
17:45
Speaker 2: Like I'm not freaked out. And if we can give
17:48
Speaker 2: our kids the same experiences on a smaller scale, given.
17:51
Speaker 1: You know, that's it.
17:52
Speaker 2: It's going to change them.
17:54
Speaker 1: That's it. Yeah. You know, like I said, you've got
17:57
Speaker 1: to know your own child and trying to think more strategically.
18:01
Speaker 1: You know, so kids sometimes will create reinforcers because a
18:06
Speaker 1: kid doesn't think it that bigger picture, longer term, right,
18:10
Speaker 1: Like I was saying, like, if I can get you know,
18:13
Speaker 1: little Chris at age three to go into this dark room, eventually,
18:17
Speaker 1: he's not going to be afraid of the dark. He's
18:19
Speaker 1: going to be able to get in there himself. You know,
18:22
Speaker 1: I didn't think that as a three year old, I
18:24
Speaker 1: wouldn't have understood that. I just knew that my dad
18:27
Speaker 1: believed in me, and that he believed I could go
18:31
Speaker 1: in there. You know, that's a huge, a huge thing.
18:36
Speaker 1: So one thing I wanted to talk to you about.
18:39
Speaker 1: It's just something I was thinking of. You know, they've
18:42
Speaker 1: done a lot of research on happiness, right, there's just
18:46
Speaker 1: happiness research out there, and there is There was an
18:50
Speaker 1: article in the Atlantic. I can't remember who had written it,
18:55
Speaker 1: but they were talking about happiness. They were talking about
18:58
Speaker 1: least you know, two types of happiness that you know.
19:00
Speaker 1: That first kind of happiness is that sort of gratification
19:06
Speaker 1: kind of you know, this tastes good, this feels good
19:10
Speaker 1: kind of happiness. Right, that's all part of what's called
19:13
Speaker 1: the limbic system, that emotional center kind of happiness. It's
19:18
Speaker 1: very short term, it's very you know, if it feels good,
19:23
Speaker 1: do it. If it doesn't feel good, don't do it.
19:26
Speaker 1: That's where a lot of our kids are, right and
19:29
Speaker 1: we get that wall. The second type of happiness they
19:34
Speaker 1: were discussing was, I mean, for a lack of a
19:36
Speaker 1: better word, this idea of like fulfillment, this idea that
19:41
Speaker 1: it's like building something. It's like climbing that mountain. When
19:45
Speaker 1: you like climb a mountain, you know, there's parts that
19:48
Speaker 1: you're really enjoying. There's parts that are really hard, there's
19:52
Speaker 1: parts that are painful. You know, there's parts that are painful.
19:57
Speaker 1: But you learn through that type of filment type of happiness,
20:01
Speaker 1: that I can tolerate pain, that I can get through
20:04
Speaker 1: pain because it's more future oriented. I can see past
20:08
Speaker 1: that and I can see the bigger picture, and I
20:11
Speaker 1: want to get to the top of this mountain.
20:13
Speaker 2: You have that goal in front of you.
20:14
Speaker 1: You have that goal, and when you have a goal,
20:18
Speaker 1: oftentimes you know you can tolerate some pain because you
20:23
Speaker 1: know there's something on the other side. You know that
20:26
Speaker 1: other type of gratification is like that right now, short term,
20:31
Speaker 1: I want it, and I think sometimes our goal. You know,
20:35
Speaker 1: I'll hear people talk about, well, I want my kid
20:37
Speaker 1: to be happy. I want my child to be happy,
20:40
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, you know, what kind of happiness
20:43
Speaker 1: are we talking about? And when I explain it, they think, oh, yeah,
20:46
Speaker 1: I want that more fulfillment type happiness. Okay, so then
20:50
Speaker 1: we've got to do this work, right, yeah, because otherwise
20:53
Speaker 1: you can just give people, you know, hey, yeah, here,
20:56
Speaker 1: here's some candy, and we're gonna you can play, you know,
20:59
Speaker 1: ten hours of video games, you know, and the idea
21:03
Speaker 1: of when you're thinking about this fulfillment, this brings into
21:07
Speaker 1: the idea that sometimes we need to sacrifice, you know,
21:12
Speaker 1: when you when we sacrifice, we're saying that we're willing
21:16
Speaker 1: to do something we don't like right now because there's
21:20
Speaker 1: going to be a payoff in the future. Right Yeah.
21:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, Growth like just keeps coming to my mind. Growth, growth, growth,
21:29
Speaker 2: Like we have to have difficulty in order to grow.
21:34
Speaker 2: But I don't feel like we can reach real deep
21:38
Speaker 2: fulfillment without that, you know, without that painful part that
21:44
Speaker 2: we did it anyway.
21:45
Speaker 1: I don't know how you do it without some pain involved.
21:51
Speaker 1: And yeah, part of what you're learning to do is
21:56
Speaker 1: tolerate pain and have a belief that you can tolerate pain.
22:01
Speaker 1: I could get through this because I got through this
22:04
Speaker 1: other thing, just like you said, I got through this
22:08
Speaker 1: surgery before I can do this again, right, Yeah, less unknown,
22:13
Speaker 1: that's right, it's less unknown. We've faced the monster under
22:17
Speaker 1: the bed.
22:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, he wasn't so scary, he wasn't.
22:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's something that the kids start to learn in
22:24
Speaker 1: therapy with me, is that they learn after they do
22:27
Speaker 1: some of this, that like, it's not as bad as
22:29
Speaker 1: I thought. Oftentimes.
22:31
Speaker 2: Yeah.
22:31
Speaker 1: Sometimes, look, sometimes things do go wrong, right, Yeah. Sometimes
22:36
Speaker 1: sometimes it's worse. Sometimes it's worse. But oftentimes with some
22:40
Speaker 1: of the things we're trying to get the kids to
22:42
Speaker 1: deal with, you know, going to school or monster under
22:45
Speaker 1: the bed, It's like I remember joining a new soccer
22:48
Speaker 1: team as a kid. You know, everybody on my old
22:51
Speaker 1: soccer team had left, they went to play baseball in
22:54
Speaker 1: other sports. I think I was like in third grade maybe,
22:57
Speaker 1: and then the new team, and I was like, oh
22:59
Speaker 1: my god, what if they don't like me? What if
23:01
Speaker 1: I'm not good enough? What if I'm like all that? Right,
23:04
Speaker 1: all the thoughts are spinning in there, and you know,
23:07
Speaker 1: you can work on those thoughts. But when I went,
23:10
Speaker 1: I saw, oh, it's not as bad as I thought,
23:13
Speaker 1: and these kids are nice and you know they're okay,
23:15
Speaker 1: but I'm right in there.
23:17
Speaker 2: With them kind of thing, right, yeah, yeah.
23:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so it's trying to find those places.
23:23
Speaker 2: Now.
23:24
Speaker 1: I'll say with sometimes kids with autism, we do have
23:28
Speaker 1: to also be protective too, right, probably more so because
23:33
Speaker 1: I'm not going to send my child into something that
23:35
Speaker 1: I know is sort of a setup for them.
23:39
Speaker 2: We have to be open to giving them opportunities for success. Right.
23:43
Speaker 2: But within that, I think is the ability to know
23:47
Speaker 2: when it just isn't a good fit and that's okay,
23:50
Speaker 2: that there isn't really maybe a past to success and
23:54
Speaker 2: it might just be because our kid is wholly disinterested.
23:58
Speaker 1: Right.
23:58
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be that they can, but that
24:00
Speaker 2: they just don't want to. And yeah, sometimes we have
24:03
Speaker 2: to honor that.
24:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's hard to know, you know, some of
24:07
Speaker 1: our guys will just say that every time, like they
24:10
Speaker 1: won't get out of the house, you know. So then
24:13
Speaker 1: we're trying to sort of negotiate these things, and sometimes
24:15
Speaker 1: we're setting up behavior plans and ways of trying to
24:18
Speaker 1: move things forward because they're only thinking that very short term.
24:22
Speaker 1: They're in that sort of limbic system gratification place and
24:25
Speaker 1: it feels good, do it. If it doesn't feel good,
24:28
Speaker 1: don't do it. We're trying to get them to that
24:31
Speaker 1: more fulfilling and learning. Wow, I can tolerate some pain.
24:35
Speaker 1: I can get through. So there's the balance, and it's
24:40
Speaker 1: very tough with our supersensor kids that are struggle with this, right,
24:45
Speaker 1: and so it's not easy. I mean, I'm learning stuff
24:49
Speaker 1: all the time. So wrath boundin associates where I work
24:53
Speaker 1: is really known for doing dialectical behavior of therapy. So
24:56
Speaker 1: now I'm learning DBTC, which is the parent I've sort
25:00
Speaker 1: of had my own sort of parent stuff I do.
25:02
Speaker 1: But I'm adding to my toolbox. And you just keep
25:06
Speaker 1: adding to your toolbox, right, you just keep adding to it.
25:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, And we can take small steps.
25:12
Speaker 1: Where you can take small steps, and that's the key
25:14
Speaker 1: is sometimes taking that small step and then you know,
25:18
Speaker 1: recognizing that and having that relationship. But you know, if
25:22
Speaker 1: I have a meltdown as a parent and I you know,
25:25
Speaker 1: justify it, I think sometimes that breaks down the relationship
25:29
Speaker 1: for some kids that are already you know, more set
25:32
Speaker 1: up to see and feel rejection. As I said, the
25:35
Speaker 1: messages they're already getting is often you don't make sense. Yeah,
25:41
Speaker 1: So that's why I have to be very careful. You know,
25:44
Speaker 1: many kids can tolerate a lot of the mistakes that
25:47
Speaker 1: parents make, right, But with our super sensor kids and
25:50
Speaker 1: kids on the Office of Spectrum, I think sometimes, you know,
25:53
Speaker 1: it takes a little bit more, which is why people
25:56
Speaker 1: come to our practice to learn these skipples, to get
26:00
Speaker 1: some help with it. It's very difficult and sometimes you
26:03
Speaker 1: can't see the forest of the trees. You're just stun
26:06
Speaker 1: So you need somebody who can see that bigger picture
26:09
Speaker 1: and and help you.
26:10
Speaker 2: It's enormously helpful. Yeah, So it sounds like validation, predictability,
26:17
Speaker 2: building trust, taking small steps, noticing when our kids do
26:22
Speaker 2: hard things. Those are kind of the keys here to
26:25
Speaker 2: finding that just right balance.
26:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. I think those are a lot
26:30
Speaker 1: of the pieces. And as things unfold, it's having a
26:35
Speaker 1: trusted person that you know you can team with. Whether
26:38
Speaker 1: that's you know, a therapist, sometimes it's you know, just parents.
26:42
Speaker 1: You know, my wife and I we parent together and
26:45
Speaker 1: we sometimes I make a mistake and I've got to
26:47
Speaker 1: take a step back and yeah sometimes I've got to
26:49
Speaker 1: go back and apologize or vice versa. You know, it's
26:53
Speaker 1: a very difficult thing. And we get the kids. We
26:56
Speaker 1: get we get the kids, we get.
26:58
Speaker 2: Yes, and we learned from them though too, Like I'm
27:02
Speaker 2: a different person because of the kids that I got.
27:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I said, parenting, it makes you look at
27:09
Speaker 1: in the mirror. It's like look you have to look
27:11
Speaker 1: in the mirror at yourself so that you can create
27:14
Speaker 1: an environment for your child. And yeah, yeah, you know.
27:19
Speaker 1: I mean my youngest son, when he was five years old,
27:22
Speaker 1: had a brain tumor in his fairbellum, so he had surgery,
27:28
Speaker 1: like right before kindergarten. He's seventeen now, he's doing very well.
27:34
Speaker 1: He's super great kid. But you know, we had a
27:37
Speaker 1: lot of challenges, right, and he had a lot of
27:40
Speaker 1: emotionality and we had to work through that. I've always
27:44
Speaker 1: worked with other people's kids and now you're sort of like,
27:46
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, so I've lived it too, right, Yeah,
27:50
Speaker 1: And I think that helps me connect with parents, helps
27:53
Speaker 1: me connect with kids absolutely, having worked in school systems
27:58
Speaker 1: and with my own child, and so everybody has a story, right,
28:02
Speaker 1: so for sure.
28:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's value in every story. There's value, there's
28:08
Speaker 2: lived experience, there's emotion, there's you know, the stories are
28:12
Speaker 2: what connect us in really beautiful ways.
28:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, and what we need is more connection, right, We're
28:18
Speaker 1: being disconnected all the time.
28:20
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it starts with connection.
28:22
Speaker 1: The kids are disconnected out there. That's one of the
28:25
Speaker 1: problems that we're having is they're disconnected. We've got to
28:29
Speaker 1: connect them. We have to be that home base for them,
28:34
Speaker 1: a place that they can feel safe and comfortable and
28:38
Speaker 1: validated and all the things you named. And we have
28:41
Speaker 1: to create that because if we model anger and then
28:45
Speaker 1: we wonder why they're angry. You know, you've got to
28:49
Speaker 1: look at yourself too. It's not about blaming parents, because
28:52
Speaker 1: it's you know, you can always understand the feeling. Yeah,
28:55
Speaker 1: it makes sense the anger that a parent might have,
28:58
Speaker 1: of course, but have to if they're going to teach
29:01
Speaker 1: their child and create this environment, they have to step
29:04
Speaker 1: up before their child steps up. And sometimes, you know,
29:08
Speaker 1: I run into the dynamic where it's like the child
29:10
Speaker 1: needs to step up. I've had it where children have
29:12
Speaker 1: stepped up before parents have stepped up, and it's like, yeah, okay,
29:16
Speaker 1: the child's learning all these skills and all these things,
29:19
Speaker 1: and that can get messy. That can get really messy.
29:23
Speaker 2: So yeah, it can be really difficult. Will you let
29:26
Speaker 2: everybody know where to find you online to learn more
29:30
Speaker 2: from you, to potentially work with you.
29:32
Speaker 1: You can reach out to me. I guess through my
29:35
Speaker 1: email would be a good sources. It's C Taylor LCSWC
29:42
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. Our practice is Rathbone and associates
29:48
Speaker 1: from Bethesda. We have an office in Bethesda and Rockville, Maryland,
29:52
Speaker 1: which you can always email me. I appreciate it.
29:56
Speaker 2: Perfect I'll link that up in the show notes and
29:59
Speaker 2: anything else that I have in relation to this episode.
30:02
Speaker 2: You can find those at Parenting ADHD and Autism dot
30:05
Speaker 2: com Slash three one six for episode three sixteen. It's
30:10
Speaker 2: been such an eye opening conversation, Chris. I'm so thankful
30:13
Speaker 2: that you've given us some of your time and your
30:15
Speaker 2: experience and your wisdom, and I know that parents are
30:18
Speaker 2: going to learn and grow as they listen.
30:21
Speaker 1: Now. I appreciate it. It's been awesome, and I love your
30:24
Speaker 1: podcasts and your Your website is amazing, so you have
30:28
Speaker 1: a lot of resources for parents.
30:30
Speaker 2: Thank you.
30:30
Speaker 1: I'm happy to be a part of it.
30:32
Speaker 2: Fantastic. I will see everybody on the next episode. Take
30:35
Speaker 2: good care. Thanks for joining me on the Beautifully Complex podcast.
30:40
Speaker 2: If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share, and
30:44
Speaker 2: don't forget to check out my online courses and parent
30:47
Speaker 2: coaching at PARENTINGADHD and Autism dot com and at the
30:51
Speaker 2: Behavior Revolution dot com.
31:00
Speaker 1: M