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Emily Chang: Define Your Social Legacy & Fuel Your Purpose · The Bold Lounge

0:06
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
0:09
SPEAKER_02: My name is Lee Burgess and I will be your host.
0:12
SPEAKER_02: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on bold journeys and made a positive impact in the world.
0:19
SPEAKER_02: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
0:22
SPEAKER_02: Everything we'll hear is someone who has taken a lead and embarked on an extraordinary journey.
0:27
SPEAKER_02: In addition to hearing their stories, they wants to learn about their bold growth mindset that they use to make things difficult, but that they face challenges or doubts along the way, that they persisted, and ultimately achieved their goals.
0:40
SPEAKER_02: These impactful stories will be motivated and inspired to pursue your own goal to go.
0:46
SPEAKER_02: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be told.
0:49
SPEAKER_02: Tune in, get ready to be inspired.
0:55
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: Today we have Emily Chang, and I'm very excited for you all to meet her.
1:00
SPEAKER_02: She is the best-selling author of The Spare Room, and if you haven't read it, you need to pick it up, and CEO of McCann World Group China.
1:07
SPEAKER_02: Welcome, Emily.
1:09
SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much for having me, Lee.
1:11
SPEAKER_02: So I'd love to start off with just a brief introduction of you introducing yourself to the audience and your world.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
1:18
SPEAKER_01: Well, I was so attracted to you and everything that you've been doing and you stand for because this concept of bold probably underpins my background.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: Coming from the background of being the child of immigrants, I think a lot of my growing up had to be bold.
1:38
SPEAKER_01: I had to figure things out.
1:39
SPEAKER_01: I had to lean into spaces where I didn't always understand the context, how to operate, or even what success looked like, because how my parents saw the world and how my American counterparts saw the world was pretty different.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: So I grew up in upstate New York.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: I went to college and got my undergrad degree in biology with a minor in chemical engineering.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: And then I ended up going to business school in finance.
2:06
SPEAKER_01: And then I joined Proctor and Gamble in brand management.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: So already I know that that sounds like quite a lot of fluidity, and I think it was.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: In my career, I started at PG for 11 years.
2:18
SPEAKER_01: And then I was invited to join Apple, leading retail marketing for Asia Pacific, transitioned to Intercontinental Hotels Group as the chief commercial officer.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: And then most recently was the Starbucks CMO for China.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: I took a year off to write the book in what I call professional halftime.
2:35
SPEAKER_01: I came back to the back half of my career as the CEO of McCann World Group in China.
2:39
SPEAKER_02: I love professional halftime.
2:41
SPEAKER_02: I love that concept and you know, reassessing or evolving or having a just a chance to take a breath.
2:48
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
2:48
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, so not that you weren't working and doing things, but it was different things, right, during that time.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: And I love, I always talk about the strata of our experiences.
2:57
SPEAKER_02: You think of a rock and the different layers.
2:59
SPEAKER_02: Like as you were talking, like for me, it made sense of the different things that you were kind of putting in your stack of skills and expertise, and obviously some great companies to work with and learn from.
3:10
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes we learn what to do and what not to do from whom we work for.
3:13
SPEAKER_02: So I think there's probably some stories in there as well.
3:17
SPEAKER_02: 100%.
3:18
SPEAKER_02: 100%, right?
3:20
SPEAKER_02: And so a lot of boldness probably happening in those years as well.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: How would you define bold?
3:25
SPEAKER_01: To me, bold is I used that phrase before, I leaned in to something I didn't completely understand.
3:31
SPEAKER_01: Boldness is leaning in when you don't know two things to me.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: You don't know the how and you don't know the what, right?
3:39
SPEAKER_01: You don't know how you're going to achieve the goal that you've set, and you don't exactly even know what the desired outcome can look like.
3:48
SPEAKER_01: And I think this is a sort of great way to approach life.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: When we are so precise about what success is, any margin of error leads to something else, which we may then consequently define as failure, but in fact could be something equally good or even better.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: So I think boldness is leaning in when you don't exactly know the how and you haven't clearly and specifically defined the what.
4:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:14
SPEAKER_02: Spot on.
4:14
SPEAKER_02: And I think one of the key things as I talk with different folks is like, what is that secret ingredient that makes someone take that step?
4:22
SPEAKER_02: And it's just one step, one single step, but it's a hard step, right?
4:25
SPEAKER_02: And it's not always easy.
4:27
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes there's smaller steps or bigger steps or there are leaps.
4:30
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's the other thing I think is helpful just for folks to know that sometimes your boldness is in a micro aspect and leading up to some macro piece of your world that's going to change or be different or be better.
4:42
SPEAKER_02: And I think I think that's that's fun to experience with people because they don't even make maybe realize, and that's an intention of actually the podcast how it got started as people didn't realize they were being bold.
4:52
SPEAKER_02: And because they thought it was something big or you know, had to be some like splash or something, you know, I quit my job or whatever.
4:58
SPEAKER_02: It is sometimes it's very, very sincere, genuine, tiny moments that add up.
5:05
SPEAKER_02: So when you think of your definition and your first experience with that, when do you remember being bold for the first time?
5:12
SPEAKER_01: I love what you just said, and I flipped to because um there's a chapter in my book that actually is called The First Step.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: Oh, as you were saying this, I'm like, oh, absolutely.
5:22
unknown: Chapter four.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: It is.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, there's this quote, and I wanted to make sure I quoted it right.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: From a little spark may burst a mighty flame.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: I think that's something that's worth remembering for all of us because we tend to diminish ourselves, perhaps, particularly as women, to say, oh, this is so small, or I'm not doing much.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: But the reality is any tiny spark can burst into a mighty flame.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: But if we don't lean into the spark, the flame will certainly not happen.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: Right.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: Or we keep putting the spark out, like, oh, I'm pushing that away, I'm pushing that away, I'm pushing that away.
5:53
SPEAKER_01: Right.
5:53
SPEAKER_01: And the world is so tough, especially now.
5:56
SPEAKER_01: There are lots of things to quench the spark.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: Let's not do it to ourselves.
6:00
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
6:01
SPEAKER_02: There's plenty of people out there with hoses.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: With hoses, yes.
6:06
SPEAKER_02: At least that was my experience.
6:07
SPEAKER_02: So, like, yeah, like keep your keep your light on.
6:10
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
6:11
SPEAKER_02: And protect your light too.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: I think that's the other thing that I think as an entrepreneur and kind of doing things differently or doing things that people may not understand.
6:19
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes people inadvertently, because I'll I'll give, you know, no one I think wants to harm people mostly, and they kind of want to dim your flame or kind of, you know, put out the spark when it starts up.
6:30
SPEAKER_02: Like, why would you?
6:31
SPEAKER_02: How could you?
6:32
SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's so comfortable.
6:34
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's the other thing when people are being bold is to think about, you know, like you are the person that maintains your light.
6:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
6:42
SPEAKER_02: And you have to really, really take that leadership role in that because you can't give that important responsibility to anybody else.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
6:51
SPEAKER_01: We should make t-shirts that say protect your spark.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
6:55
SPEAKER_02: Definitely put a hashtag on it.
6:57
SPEAKER_00: Okay, sounds good.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: Hashtag chief.
7:00
SPEAKER_02: There we go.
7:01
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
7:01
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I didn't answer your questions.
7:04
SPEAKER_02: No, that's okay.
7:05
SPEAKER_02: We go back to it easily.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: So I think you've been bold all your life, probably.
7:09
SPEAKER_02: But do you remember or like think about like when I said when when's the first moment you remember being bold?
7:14
SPEAKER_02: Like what comes to mind first off?
7:15
SPEAKER_01: There is there is something that comes to mind, and it's almost a visceral feeling when you lean into something and you don't know the how or the what.
7:22
SPEAKER_01: It's like it's like if you've ever done one of those free fall drops at uh amusement park.
7:29
SPEAKER_02: I've ducked off a telephone pole.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I think I'm gonna have to hear about that.
7:34
SPEAKER_02: I was belayed, but yeah.
7:35
SPEAKER_02: So I've never done the free fall thing, so you'll have to explain it.
7:38
SPEAKER_02: I know it looks scary.
7:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a little bit maybe not scary as much as your stomach lifts into your heart.
7:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's a little that moment that I think that is a signal physically that we're about to do something bold.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: And I can remember the first time I felt that from the seventh grade on, I wanted to be a pediatric oncologist.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: I'd just seen a really tough situation.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: I feel poorly managed with a cancer patient, a child.
8:03
SPEAKER_01: And I remember at that moment, you know, whatever it is that sort of sparks us, I was like, I'm gonna do that, but I'm gonna do it better.
8:10
SPEAKER_01: And so I was building my way toward medical school from the seventh grade on and did everything that you're supposed to do.
8:16
SPEAKER_01: I got into medical school.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: And then suddenly I had this major moment when I was volunteering in pediatric intensive care when I realized the thing that drew me to this is going to make me fail.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: I do not have the emotional distance to work every day with extremely hurt, damaged, abused, neglected children.
8:35
SPEAKER_01: And I suddenly walked out of the situation and thought, okay, it was May, it was end of May.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: I can't go to medical school.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: What am I going to do?
8:45
SPEAKER_01: And I suddenly thought, well, I got enrolled in an MD MBA program.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: Maybe somebody will let me apply for an MBA, though I know not the first thing about business.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: You know, this is late 90s.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: I saw people walk into buildings in suits with briefcases and come out at the end of the day.
9:03
SPEAKER_01: That is the extent of which I knew about business.
9:05
SPEAKER_02: We have a uniform, yeah, like a uniform and a type of car we drove.
9:09
SPEAKER_02: I think, you know, when I remember my MHA, it was like, okay, I have to look like this or I have to do this.
9:13
SPEAKER_02: So I can see the pictures.
9:15
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: And I remember thinking, that does not look like me, but I think I'm gonna go do that.
9:19
SPEAKER_01: And so I suddenly I took the GMAT and I thought, if I can do the MCAT, maybe I can do the GMAT.
9:24
SPEAKER_01: And then within a week, within a week, I was applying to business schools and trying to get into the best finance school I could because finance seemed like a close cousin to math.
9:34
SPEAKER_01: That was the extent of my background.
9:37
SPEAKER_01: And that was bold.
9:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was bold.
9:39
SPEAKER_02: So I think a couple of things in there were bold.
9:41
SPEAKER_02: Like being a doctor is bold, and I have tremendous respect for that.
9:44
SPEAKER_02: I think you know a little bit about my background.
9:46
SPEAKER_02: I actually was in oncology for over half of my career at Duke, and then I was an administrator, not a physician.
9:54
SPEAKER_02: So from that perspective, but that's really where the base of my respect for physicians and what they deal with and decisions they make.
10:00
SPEAKER_02: It's just incredible.
10:01
SPEAKER_02: But I think the other piece of this is you were able to identify, you didn't have, and I'll just use the word maturity because I can't think of the emotional maturity to like distance yourself from the emotion of children.
10:13
SPEAKER_02: And it's interesting because my goal when I was in college was to be a CEO of a children's hospital.
10:19
SPEAKER_02: And I wanted to be a leader, I wanted to change the lives of everyone I touched in a good way and just make the world a better place.
10:26
SPEAKER_02: But I wanted to do it from a space of, I want to understand the medical side.
10:30
SPEAKER_02: So my undergrad nursing and then going into the administrative side.
10:35
SPEAKER_02: And that was my intention.
10:36
SPEAKER_02: I think I had a moment like in ninth grade-ish of like when you're having to make this decision, which is an interesting thing, which I hope is changing, because I think we figure out maybe what we thought at, you know, 15 years old, 16 years old, when you're being forced in a way to make this big decision about what's your life going to be like.
10:55
SPEAKER_02: That, you know, we're giving hopefully younger people now a chance.
10:59
SPEAKER_02: Like what you do now may not be what you do three years from now or four years from now.
11:03
SPEAKER_02: So at least as adults, I'm feeling like we get to choose.
11:06
SPEAKER_02: And I think for a while I didn't realize I got to choose.
11:09
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's that's bold in itself, I guess, of figuring it out.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
11:13
SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, to your point, it was an emotional maturity issue.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: I think as young people, it's very easy to judge others.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: I saw a doctor behaving in what I thought was a really callous way.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: You know, just a year later, I realized I don't have that emotional distance, so maybe there's a reason he behaved the way he did.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, wisdom teaches us so much, but I think we can accelerate our exposure to wisdom and to these learning moments when we lean forward in boldness because we try something different or we step into a new space.
11:44
SPEAKER_01: To your point, this is a choice.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: I started off in biology, then I went to business and finance, then I ended up in brand management.
11:50
SPEAKER_01: Now I'm looking after a creative agency.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: If we open ourselves up to a much broader set of choices, life can take us down really interesting roads.
12:00
SPEAKER_02: Right.
12:01
SPEAKER_02: And there's not a right way to do it.
12:03
SPEAKER_02: There's not one way.
12:04
SPEAKER_02: And I think we get that ingrained in us that you go to school, you go to high school, you get your grades, you you know, try to be as many honors classes as possible.
12:12
SPEAKER_02: You go to college, you get your master's, you get your doctorate.
12:15
SPEAKER_02: It's like boom, boom, boom, this is what you do.
12:17
SPEAKER_02: And then then you hope for 25 years you have a good career, and then you, you know, look forward to retirement.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: Like that was I think that's kind of old school for me to think like that.
12:26
SPEAKER_02: But for a while, I was really thinking like that because I think it was the way I was raised.
12:30
SPEAKER_02: It's also the way my parents are raised, and my parents are still working at 75 and 76, can't give them stop, and but I don't want them to.
12:37
SPEAKER_02: Like, if that brings them joy and aligns with who they are, then go for it.
12:41
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, my parents do not listen to me, so which is fun because I'll probably be the same way.
12:46
SPEAKER_02: But I think, you know, I don't think I could, I know I could not do that role either.
12:51
SPEAKER_02: So, but I think there's maturity and realizing like I cannot spend the next eight years of my life in med school and residency and then not be able to do it, right?
13:00
SPEAKER_02: Like you knew then, so that's bold, like take because I'm sure that wasn't popular with some people.
13:05
SPEAKER_02: No, and it was a you mean like speaking of parents, yeah, like your parents, and they're like, What?
13:11
SPEAKER_02: I don't understand, you know?
13:13
SPEAKER_02: And I think sometimes when we're making bold moves, people don't understand.
13:17
SPEAKER_02: They still love us and care for us and want us to be successful, but I think sometimes the way they guide us, and and I don't just mean parents, it could be friends or you know, our our close loved ones, they they're trying to give you advice, but it's not really the best advice for you, it's the best advice for them.
13:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think we have to remember that.
13:35
SPEAKER_02: And uh, we love them no matter what, but we have to realize we have to make that decision for us.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: You know, that's a great point.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: Not only do we see life circumstances through our own filter, but everybody has a degree of boldness, right?
13:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, I talked about it once on a TEDx talk.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: My discomfort index is really high.
13:53
SPEAKER_01: I love being uncomfortable.
13:55
SPEAKER_01: I like that feeling of I don't know exactly how I'm gonna get things done, but this is really exciting.
13:59
SPEAKER_01: I can learn and contribute at the same time.
14:02
SPEAKER_01: That's like my my joyful intersection of life.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: But the other thing is bold begets bold.
14:09
SPEAKER_01: The more you're willing to lean into something and you see the outcome, what you what you realize is what's the worst that can happen?
14:16
SPEAKER_01: And what is the tremendous upside?
14:19
SPEAKER_01: So the next time you lean even quicker, maybe you lean even harder.
14:22
SPEAKER_01: And then at some point you're not even leaning, you're like jumping into it.
14:26
SPEAKER_01: But of course, those around you, if they haven't had the same bold journey, they're looking at it and they're like, that's insane.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: What are you doing?
14:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think that I love the discomfort index as an analogy to also everyone doesn't have the same one.
14:44
SPEAKER_02: So, like what feels like normal to you and actually excites you worries other people or concerns other people, or may actually make people not even want to be around you.
14:54
SPEAKER_02: I don't know, who knows?
14:55
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's where you realize like where your inner circle comes from, too, which I talk about.
15:01
SPEAKER_02: And so as you're making those bold moves, just remember that you may need to tune that or refresh it or you know, do spring cleaning because I think as we evolve, everyone doesn't evolve at the same pace with us, right?
15:14
SPEAKER_02: Or want us maybe to go or be something different, because that then means they might have to look in the mirror and do something different.
15:22
SPEAKER_02: And not everyone's comfortable with that, and that's okay, but it doesn't mean you should slow your role because of someone else's not being as fast as yours.
15:31
SPEAKER_02: So I think that's a key thing that I think I see a lot out there too, because people are looking for affirmation or yes, it's okay, go for it, it's a guarantee, and that's that's just not how life works.
15:43
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's not how boldness works for sure.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: I think that's a that's a great articulation.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: There are so many people who call and ask for, you know, quote, mentorship.
15:51
SPEAKER_01: And the word mentorship means a lot of things to a lot of people.
15:54
SPEAKER_01: So one of the things I've learned as I get older is that doesn't mean they want my advice.
16:00
SPEAKER_01: So one of the things we do is we listen and then we ask, I've started to ask very consistently, so how can I serve you?
16:06
SPEAKER_01: What does help look like today?
16:07
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes the answers, you know what?
16:09
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: Maybe I just needed a sounding board.
16:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
16:12
SPEAKER_01: Or maybe I want to hear what you would do in this circumstance, which is somewhat freeing because then I'm not giving you advice for my filter.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: I'm simply saying, if it were me, right?
16:20
SPEAKER_01: I but I think clarifying what does help look like is important because you know, if you're like maybe us, you're very keen to problem solve and help.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: But defining what that help looks like is probably a really important first step.
16:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, everyone doesn't always want advice.
16:34
SPEAKER_02: That's really and same thing for us.
16:36
SPEAKER_02: We don't always want advice.
16:37
SPEAKER_02: So I think that's good for us to hear too, in the sense of it guides us of when we are talking with someone to know what we're asking of them.
16:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
16:45
SPEAKER_02: Because some people may give advice that you didn't, it's unsolicited.
16:49
SPEAKER_02: Yes, you know, and not always wanted.
16:52
SPEAKER_02: So I think that's key.
16:54
SPEAKER_02: So you talked about your professional halftime.
16:56
SPEAKER_02: So let's, if we can, let's kind of fast forward to that if you're okay with that.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: Of course.
17:01
SPEAKER_02: So, what does that look like?
17:02
SPEAKER_02: What does it look like when you make that decision to write the book and then tell me about that experience and kind of what you learned about yourself during that time?
17:11
SPEAKER_01: Well, the first thing, this phrase is half borrowed from this book called Halftime.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: And it was sort of this idea that you hit your halftime in your professional career, and perhaps all your definitions of success, they've shifted or recalibrated in the sense that, you know, when you're younger, you say, I would love to be a director of something.
17:30
SPEAKER_01: I would love to define this sort of a family structure of success, a certain income level, a certain kind of house or a car.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: And you start realizing as you get older, these things are incredibly material.
17:41
SPEAKER_01: Maybe you don't, maybe they're still very important and you achieve them, or maybe you don't.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: But regardless, you get a couple decades in and you realize there's still a couple decades left.
17:51
SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of decades left.
17:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:54
SPEAKER_01: That's true.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: And in fact, maybe halftime's not even right.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's only been a trimester.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: Love that.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm in my first try, second trimester now.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
18:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:04
SPEAKER_02: Supposedly the first person to live 150 years has already been born.
18:08
SPEAKER_02: So it's happening.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: So thinking about back to your very first comment, when we're young, we have to sort of make these choices.
18:17
SPEAKER_01: And then we have to feel the freedom to say, I don't have to stick with those.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: But look, we should, we should reassess again a couple years into our career.
18:25
SPEAKER_01: You know, for me, it was 20 plus years to say, what do I want for the back half?
18:29
SPEAKER_01: Suddenly, it's not about the nuclear structure of my family.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: It's not about a job or title.
18:34
SPEAKER_01: Because as I said before, as long as I'm contributing and learning, I'm super happy.
18:38
SPEAKER_01: That can happen in a lot of places.
18:41
SPEAKER_01: So before I lean into the back half, what's undone?
18:44
SPEAKER_01: What is something that's sort of niggling at the back of my mind and my heart that says, spend time on me, invest in me?
18:52
SPEAKER_01: And I think if everybody asks this question, they might discover interesting things.
18:56
SPEAKER_01: You might discover nothing's niggling.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: I am full speed ahead.
19:00
SPEAKER_01: This is fabulous.
19:01
SPEAKER_01: I'm exactly on the right track.
19:03
SPEAKER_01: You might discover, I hate where I am right now.
19:06
SPEAKER_01: It is time for a major pivot.
19:07
SPEAKER_01: Or you might discover, like me, you know, I have been trying to write this book.
19:11
SPEAKER_01: We've had the privilege at that point of housing 16 kids in our spare room.
19:15
SPEAKER_01: They are extraordinary.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: I've watched them grow up.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: I've seen miracles.
19:18
SPEAKER_01: I've had the privilege of these sort of front row seats to life's amazing stories.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: I want to tell them and share them.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: Concurrently, I want to share with people that there are some pretty big cracks in the world of social justice.
19:30
SPEAKER_01: And I didn't know about them.
19:32
SPEAKER_01: So maybe others won't as well.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: And of course, that objective evolved itself.
19:37
SPEAKER_01: But because I had that sort of niggling desire, I realized if I wait until I retire, because we often say when I retire, I will dot that back.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: But if I wait until then, when is retirement?
19:48
SPEAKER_01: First of all, speaking of the trimesters.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: And second, a lot of these stories are already fading and they'll fade even more.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: And if I want to invest in them, now is the time.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: So let me redefine the structure of a successful career to your earlier point.
20:04
SPEAKER_01: This is the trajectory we were told to go on and we were sort of faithfully following.
20:08
SPEAKER_01: But what's to say, let me stop for one year, give myself 12 months time to try and pursue this thing that's really pulling at me.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: And let's see if we can make it happen.
20:18
SPEAKER_01: And then if not, we'll go back to work.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: If it does, great, because I can put that to peace and see what doors it opens up or who it may sort of bless or serve.
20:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:30
SPEAKER_02: So another bold moment right there is listening, right?
20:33
SPEAKER_02: Listening to yourself, listening to the the inner itch in a way of like what is still undone, which I loved how you said that.
20:41
SPEAKER_02: And understanding to define that you may need to recalibrate what you thought success was five, 10, even a year ago.
20:48
SPEAKER_02: Because I'm all I'm like a I'm living a quarterly life.
20:51
SPEAKER_02: Like that's how I feel.
20:52
SPEAKER_02: Like, even what I I definitely what I thought in January is very different from what I think in August of what success looks like for 2022 for a myriad of reasons.
21:00
SPEAKER_02: Ups and downs, good things, bad things.
21:02
SPEAKER_02: Like, but you you have to recalibrate.
21:04
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's something that everyone may do.
21:06
SPEAKER_02: They think, okay, I had a goal in January, it's the same goal in December.
21:10
SPEAKER_02: But life changes and things happen that may have changed that goal.
21:13
SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying change every goal that you have, but that recalibration is really important.
21:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:18
SPEAKER_02: So tell us about the spare room.
21:20
SPEAKER_02: So obviously there's the book, but how did the spare room start?
21:24
SPEAKER_02: How did you have your first guest?
21:25
SPEAKER_01: It was inadvertently bold move.
21:28
unknown: Okay.
21:29
SPEAKER_01: So I don't, I you know, one of the things about the the book and our our life story as a family is I don't want anyone to see it and think, wow, you're great people, because that's not the point.
21:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: The point is everybody has so much potential to do so much more.
21:41
SPEAKER_01: And it's just so life enriching, not only for the people we're serving, but for ourselves.
21:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you had already helped people before the book.
21:48
SPEAKER_02: So you weren't helping people to write a book.
21:50
SPEAKER_02: You were living life in your mission and aligned with who you are of doing good.
21:55
SPEAKER_02: And you know, the book came out of that.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
21:59
SPEAKER_01: And and the Encouragement and hopefully a movement to say, you know, what's your spare room?
22:04
SPEAKER_01: What do you think you can do more?
22:06
SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't have to be at a professional halftime, it can be at any point.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: And in fact, I've been so encouraged that so many young people have really liked the book.
22:14
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm not talking 20s starting a career.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: I'm talking kids who've seen the book in their parents' house and I've gotten these emails saying, my kid picked this up and it's changing the way he's thinking about college, exactly to our earlier point.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: So this whole thing started very accidentally.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: I was driving home to my tiny studio apartment when I was still at University of Rochester in undergrad, and I saw a little kid on the side of the street who'd been hurt.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: And it's one of those moments, you know, you see, you walk by a lot of issues in the day.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: You see plastic bottles in the street, you see litter, you see abandoned animals, you know, you might see something on the news that really speaks to you.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: I think for each of us, there's one thing that stops us in our tracks that we literally can't go on.
22:55
SPEAKER_01: Whether it's an offense or an opportunity, I think there's power in identifying what that thing is.
23:01
SPEAKER_01: I hadn't yet, but I will say in that moment, I just could not keep driving.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: It was late, it was freezing sleet, it was disgusting.
23:07
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to go home.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: I hadn't eaten dinner and it was late.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: But all those things were true for this kid who's sitting out on the side of the curb.
23:14
SPEAKER_01: So I just asked her to get in the car.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: I said, could I could I just take you to a diner and buy you food?
23:20
SPEAKER_01: And I ended up buying dinner.
23:21
SPEAKER_01: And it was, it was really uncomfortable.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: I'd say sometimes a bold move does not immediately lead to a hallmark moment.
23:28
SPEAKER_02: For sure.
23:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the hallmark moment does not happen immediately, and probably lots of them.
23:35
SPEAKER_01: Right.
23:35
SPEAKER_01: It's uncomfortable.
23:36
SPEAKER_01: It continues to be uncomfortable.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: You're doubting yourself, like, why did I do this?
23:41
SPEAKER_01: What's gonna happen next?
23:42
SPEAKER_01: This is so awkward.
23:43
SPEAKER_01: This girl sitting opposite me obviously hurt.
23:46
SPEAKER_01: I wonder if anyone thinks I hurt her.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: She's dripping gray rainwater on the floor.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: I feel bad for the restaurant.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: You know, all these questions are going through your mind, but then you persevere because you think I did this for a reason.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: In the very beginning of our chat, you asked me to define bold.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: And I said, it's when you lean in and you don't know the how or the what.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: But I think one thing we should know is the why.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: For me, I know why I did this.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: I want to help this kid to whatever degree that looks like, however, she needs it.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: So I'm not gonna give up and feel awkward.
24:15
SPEAKER_01: And she stood up to walk away after eating.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: She didn't even say thanks.
24:17
SPEAKER_01: She didn't say words, she just walked up and started to leave.
24:20
SPEAKER_01: And I'm thinking, should I just let her go?
24:22
SPEAKER_01: I got her a meal.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: But I thought, I mean, she's going back out there.
24:25
SPEAKER_01: She's her face has been beaten up.
24:26
SPEAKER_01: She has nothing, and she's wearing this thin parka.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: So I just asked her, where are you gonna stay tonight?
24:31
SPEAKER_01: And that opened up a whole new conversation, a new relationship.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: This girl, Leah, ended up staying in my studio apartment, sleeping on my couch for the next couple months.
24:41
SPEAKER_01: I only didn't even have a bed at that point.
24:43
SPEAKER_01: You know, I was not a well-off student.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: I had a mattress on the floor.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: And that's how Leah and I lived together.
24:50
SPEAKER_01: She was on the couch and I was on this mattress on the floor, and we would sleep and talk in the dark.
24:54
SPEAKER_01: And that's when we got to know each other.
24:56
SPEAKER_01: And that was the first kid who was in my spare room.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: We ended up eventually, she refused to go back home.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: And I ended up putting her in a foster family.
25:03
SPEAKER_01: The last time I saw her, she graduated high school and I got to sit there.
25:06
SPEAKER_01: You know, as a college, at that point, I was in my MVA and just sitting there watching her walk across the stage sobbing.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure people around were thinking, who is this person?
25:16
SPEAKER_01: But what a gratifying graduation to get the opportunity to go to and to see this girl move into the next stage of her life for this tiny small thing that I had an opportunity to do goes back to our tiny spark.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: We have to protect it in ourselves.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: We have to share it with other people because, oh, there's this beautiful quote: a candle loses nothing by lighting another.
25:36
SPEAKER_02: So I think in the sense of being able to do that for that particular person, Leah, you probably had others who were maybe even saying you were crazy at that moment, or who is this person?
25:50
SPEAKER_02: You don't know her.
25:51
SPEAKER_02: And then leading up to now she has an opportunity that you were definitely a part of and being a piece of in the sense of her future.
25:59
SPEAKER_02: And again, it started off with, I just want to get her out of the rain.
26:02
SPEAKER_02: I see someone that needs help.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:04
SPEAKER_02: This is uncomfortable.
26:05
SPEAKER_02: It's dark, it's at night, I'm on my way home, but I it stops me in my tracks.
26:10
SPEAKER_02: And then that led to what?
26:14
SPEAKER_02: How does it lead to really your social legacy of the spare room?
26:17
SPEAKER_01: Well, when Leah moved out, she then called me and said, There's a girl I met on the street.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: She needs a safe place.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: Will you take her?
26:26
SPEAKER_01: So I took the second girl.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: And then shortly after that, I graduated and I didn't think too much about it.
26:33
SPEAKER_01: You know, you help where you can.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: You got to help some teenage girls, no, no big deal, really.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: And then another kid came along who needed a safe place.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: And she sort of stumbled into our lives.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: At this point, I was married to my husband just a couple of years later, and she was a child bride.
26:49
SPEAKER_01: And Lee, I didn't know very much about child marriage.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: I guess it brings the phrase brings to mind something in third world countries.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: But at that point, almost every state in America, and still the vast majority, enable child marriage at a very young age, as young as 12, with a judge's signature or parental consent.
27:07
SPEAKER_01: So I knew nothing about this.
27:09
SPEAKER_01: But this young girl had gotten married.
27:11
SPEAKER_01: She was not one of the cases where she married grown men.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: She she married her boyfriend, who was a couple years older than her, but who qualified as an adult.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: So they got parental approval.
27:19
SPEAKER_01: But what she hadn't realized is if things went south, she was now married legally, but she didn't have an ability to access the women's shelter because she wasn't an adult.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: If she left home, she could be dragged back home as a runaway because she's still a child.
27:33
SPEAKER_01: She didn't have access to money, a bank account, a credit card.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: And I just learned so much from seeing this very vulnerable young person just so out of her depth, thinking she had jumped into a marriage for love and suddenly, you know, not having a place to live.
27:47
SPEAKER_01: Everything has been pulled out from under her.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: So of course, even though we didn't know her, my husband and I just said, Come stay, come stay in our spare room.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: And at that point, I think it started to feel like maybe this is a thing.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: And each kid, baby or young adult who's come into our spare room has come through a completely different channel.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: So it frankly, I'm a slow learner.
28:09
SPEAKER_01: It took me a while, maybe seven kids, before I was like, this is for sure a pattern.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it's because we continue to say yes, and then that yes draws the need to us, or, you know, if there's some sort of uh amplifying generosity in the world, I don't know how to explain it, where you know, good begets good.
28:27
SPEAKER_01: So it was really halfway through our 17 kids that I'm like, this is definitely a thing.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: I want to start telling these stories.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: Do people know about child marriage?
28:34
SPEAKER_01: Do people know about sex slavery?
28:36
SPEAKER_01: Do people know about, you know, the consequences of being born with hydrocephalus?
28:40
SPEAKER_01: So that's where the idea of this social legacy came from, because I thought purpose is a really big phrase.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: It can be intimidating and maybe overused to some degree.
28:50
SPEAKER_01: What is it that I want to say?
28:52
SPEAKER_01: For me, it's about leaving something better than I found it, leaving a person better off than they were before I met them.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: That to me is legacy.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: It's a small thing, it's not a monumental thing.
29:02
SPEAKER_01: And social simply defines the space in which we want to have that impact.
29:07
SPEAKER_01: For me, maybe it's just my spare room.
29:09
SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a part of our family and our home.
29:11
SPEAKER_01: For others, I've learned in writing a book and hearing so many incredible stories.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: It can be India, it can be Afghanistan, it can be the ocean and plastics that are polluting it to the point where they are the size of land masses.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: It can be defined to whatever a person's offense is.
29:28
SPEAKER_01: If you can define your offense, as we talked about before, and if you can articulate your own offer, what it is you have to bring to the table against that particular offense, that intersection is what I'm calling social legacy.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: And for me, it's not just the spare room.
29:42
SPEAKER_01: It started off that way and it's catchy, easy to remember.
29:44
SPEAKER_01: But the spare room is part of the offer.
29:46
SPEAKER_01: That social legacy is actually one of our kids helped me define it.
29:50
SPEAKER_01: I call it good kippun.
29:51
SPEAKER_01: It's a South Korean boy who lived with us, and he said this Korean word kippun means a comfort for the spirit.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's so great.
29:59
SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's what I want.
30:00
SPEAKER_01: I want when you talk to me, you don't see anything other than somebody who hears me and respects me and wants to learn more from me.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: I want when you come into my home, you feel comfortable to kick off your shoes, open the fridge, get yourself a beer.
30:13
SPEAKER_01: When you come into my workplace, you think, ah, I'm so glad I'm back.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to get to work.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: These are not normal experiences when you go into someone's home for the first time or when you enter the workplace.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: I know that when we look at workplace statistics, but the social legacy has been so inspiring and empowering to me because it transcends my home and my work.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: And it says that is how I want people to feel when they're around me.
30:36
SPEAKER_01: And it defines the small things and the big things in all that I try to invest in.
30:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:42
SPEAKER_02: So when someone's trying to figure that out for themselves, I think sometimes I'll speak for myself, like sometimes you feel lost, like you even yourself.
30:49
SPEAKER_02: You maybe need to give yourself your own personal spare room, like just to give yourself a break, because you can be pretty tough on yourself.
30:56
SPEAKER_02: And maybe that's a mental spare room we give ourselves in a way, just being able to say it's okay, you're safe in this moment, and be able to take a breath.
31:06
SPEAKER_02: I think we all want to have purpose and we all want to know.
31:10
SPEAKER_02: I truly believe most people are good.
31:12
SPEAKER_02: And so, and they want to do good and they want to help others and they want to be appreciated and they want to feel loved and they want to feel safe.
31:20
SPEAKER_02: Like to me, those are the things that resonate.
31:23
SPEAKER_02: And I I think very similar with all the things that you've done for yourself, for your family, for those that have stayed in the spare room.
31:30
SPEAKER_02: But if someone's trying to figure out where do I start, like as I'm trying to figure that out, because purpose is a really deep word.
31:36
SPEAKER_02: It feels like, wow, that's I've got to define that.
31:39
SPEAKER_02: That's kind of hard.
31:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:41
SPEAKER_02: What would you advise people where to start?
31:43
unknown: Yeah.
31:43
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's why.
31:44
SPEAKER_01: Well, okay, I spent 11 years at Procter and Kemble.
31:47
SPEAKER_01: And my background is in science, right?
31:48
SPEAKER_01: So everything tends to be an XY axis or a Venn diagram in my mind.
31:52
SPEAKER_01: Love the vision.
31:53
SPEAKER_01: And I I am visual.
31:54
SPEAKER_01: And I think we can distill things down to their simplest form.
31:58
SPEAKER_01: So for me, it is define your offer.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: And this book, you know, the publishers were like, please don't call it a workbook.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: That's gross.
32:06
SPEAKER_01: But in my mind, I want this to be actionable.
32:08
SPEAKER_01: You know, you don't want to close a book and be like, that's amazing.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what to do next.
32:12
SPEAKER_01: I want it to be a step-by-step, like this is something everybody has in them.
32:16
SPEAKER_03: Right.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: Everybody, I agree with you.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: Not only is everybody generally good, but they want to be great and they have it in them to be extraordinary.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: And that's sort of how the back half of my life, whether it is in my day job or through this book or through everyday interactions, I see as sort of my life mission is how do I help people discover, unlock their own social legacy?
32:37
SPEAKER_01: So start with defining your offer.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: What do you uniquely bring to the table?
32:41
SPEAKER_01: There are step-by-step exercises, but at a big picture, it is what are you good at?
32:46
SPEAKER_01: What do people know you for, come to you for?
32:49
SPEAKER_01: What is your experience set?
32:51
SPEAKER_01: You know, my daughter was just saying, I hadn't realized that a lot of kids in America haven't traveled as much as I have.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: I said, yes, that is part of your offer.
32:58
SPEAKER_01: That is part of what you bring that's unique, and you can use it to benefit people when you talk to them.
33:03
SPEAKER_01: You know, being intentional about knowing this is something I offer is uncomfortable.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: We don't like to talk about ourselves, brag about ourselves, feel proud of ourselves.
33:12
SPEAKER_01: But actually defining what it is we offer benefits others.
33:16
SPEAKER_01: So that's one thing.
33:17
SPEAKER_01: Then the other thing is how do I want to direct what I have to offer?
33:20
SPEAKER_01: Where do I want to put it?
33:22
SPEAKER_01: And we can't put it everywhere.
33:23
SPEAKER_01: A lot of us get really drawn to amazing new opportunities.
33:27
SPEAKER_01: We say yes, we say yes, we want to go do that.
33:28
SPEAKER_01: Oh my God, that sounds amazing.
33:30
SPEAKER_01: What's going on in the metaverse?
33:31
SPEAKER_01: I want to learn, I want to contribute.
33:33
SPEAKER_01: But if we divide our attentions too much, we end up landing nothing.
33:37
SPEAKER_01: So I think it requires a ruthness, ruthlessness to some degree to say, what are like the five things I really want to do well?
33:44
SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's three, maybe it's seven.
33:45
SPEAKER_01: For me, it's always been five.
33:47
SPEAKER_01: Well, I want to be a great parent.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: That's one.
33:49
SPEAKER_01: I want to be a great wife, that's two.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: All right, I've only got three left.
33:52
SPEAKER_01: If one is being a great employer and another is being a great employee, I only have one left.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: Maybe those things are less important.
33:59
SPEAKER_01: What are the five?
34:01
SPEAKER_01: Maybe that last thing becomes where you want to direct your attention.
34:05
SPEAKER_01: And then you can do it with intentionality and specificity.
34:10
SPEAKER_01: So defining your offer, defining where you want to direct it, then looking at those two things, like write them out in a Venn diagram.
34:18
SPEAKER_01: What's in the middle?
34:19
SPEAKER_01: Where do they intersect?
34:20
SPEAKER_01: What is that unique space?
34:21
SPEAKER_01: And here's where I think there's a lot of power.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: Not only is there power to words, writing it down and sharing it with others because now they they know they've heard it and they can hold you accountable, but because it's very defining in terms of how we live our lives, where we put our time and our money, how we prioritize the things that are ahead.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: It helps us say no as well, which requires boldness because it's hard to say no, especially to people we care about or to things that are really good.
34:47
SPEAKER_01: But if we keep saying yes to the good, sometimes we miss the opportunity to invest in the great.
34:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, love that.
34:53
SPEAKER_02: There's so much in there.
34:54
SPEAKER_02: Play that back.
34:55
SPEAKER_02: That's what I would say.
34:56
SPEAKER_02: Go back a couple minutes and like re-hear that message because I think understanding how to define it and don't over-complicate it.
35:05
SPEAKER_02: I think that's another thing.
35:07
SPEAKER_02: Again, I think I do is I overcomplicate things that are fairly straightforward and simple at times.
35:12
SPEAKER_02: And so if you just really break that down like you just did, I think people will be able to help understand kind of what's the first step or where what's the direction I'm going.
35:20
SPEAKER_02: Because it, your first step may be somewhere along the way, you may take a different route or a different path.
35:27
SPEAKER_02: And so having that defined that way.
35:28
SPEAKER_02: So I really enjoy how you describe that.
35:31
SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you very much for being on the Bold Lounge, and I really enjoyed our conversation.
35:36
SPEAKER_02: And all the information about the book and contact and information about Emily is below for everyone.
35:42
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
35:43
SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Lee.
35:47
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge podcast.
35:50
SPEAKER_02: Through the continuum of bold stories, vulnerability to taking the leap, you will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others through their unique and important story.
36:00
SPEAKER_02: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others and share the journey of the bold world.
36:06
SPEAKER_02: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing the books all joining.