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BOY, 5, FOLDED DEAD IN A SUITCASE, MOMMY STILL ON THE RUN · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Somebody knows something well. Truer
0:18
Speaker 1: words were never spoken. And then in the case of
0:22
Speaker 1: a boy in a suitcase, a little boy, a beautiful
0:28
Speaker 1: little boy literally found in a suitcase dead. When the
0:35
Speaker 1: case first hit the headlines, it was quite the furor.
0:40
Speaker 1: A classic Las Vegas Welcome to Las Vegas suitcase with
0:45
Speaker 1: the iconic sticker on the side was found seemingly out
0:49
Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere in the woods in Salem, Indiana.
0:53
Speaker 1: A small body stuffed into a Welcome to the Fabulous
0:56
Speaker 1: Las Vegas suitcase. The prime suspect, his mom, still on
1:05
Speaker 1: the run after this taught's body found stuffed in a suitcase.
1:12
Speaker 1: I Meancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for
1:14
Speaker 1: being with us here at serious XM one eleven. I
1:18
Speaker 1: will never forget it. This little child, beautiful little boy,
1:24
Speaker 1: found dehydration the cause of death caused by gastro enterritis.
1:31
Speaker 1: What a painful and slow suffering death this five year
1:36
Speaker 1: old boy had. And now we know who is the purp.
1:42
Speaker 1: The purp is his own mother. Why is she still
1:46
Speaker 1: on the run? How is she able to outsmart police,
1:50
Speaker 1: FBI bounty hunters, dog trackers, the works or are they
1:56
Speaker 1: simply not focusing on apprehending her. Is a little five
2:01
Speaker 1: year old boy somehow lost in the shuffles, his life
2:07
Speaker 1: less important than other people's. Do you remember the man
2:12
Speaker 1: hunt or should I say woman hunt for Caitlin Armstrong
2:18
Speaker 1: accused of gunning down a beautiful pro cycler Mariah because
2:24
Speaker 1: of a love triangle. They truck Armstrong down all the
2:28
Speaker 1: way in disguise in Costa Rica. Oh yeah, they found
2:31
Speaker 1: her because it was the high profile case. But seemingly
2:35
Speaker 1: nobody cares about this little four feet tall, slim built,
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Speaker 1: short hair little boy for so long an unknown angel.
2:48
Speaker 1: Listen to our friend's whas now.
2:51
Speaker 2: The discovery was made by a person hunting for mushrooms
2:54
Speaker 2: over the weekend. Also new today, an autopsy was performed.
2:57
Speaker 2: We do know that police say the boy is only
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Speaker 2: five eight years old. They had that he could have
3:01
Speaker 2: been from anywhere, not just southern Indiana. Investigators say they
3:05
Speaker 2: have been searching the wooded area where the boy was found,
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Speaker 2: but the information has not led them to any answers.
3:10
Speaker 1: And that is how the mystery, the puzzle began. But
3:15
Speaker 1: I'm still overwhelmed by just the words A little boy
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Speaker 1: folded up dead in a suitcase. A Vegas suitcase found
3:25
Speaker 1: in Indiana, but they have no idea where this little
3:29
Speaker 1: boy was from. Take a listen to our friends at
3:32
Speaker 1: wdr B right now.
3:34
Speaker 3: Indiana State Please isn't giving too any details on this case,
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Speaker 3: but investigators do believe that somebody out there knows something
3:41
Speaker 3: that can help them figure out who this child was.
3:44
Speaker 4: We are looking for the public's help and finding out
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Speaker 4: the name of this child, this little boy who deserves answers.
3:49
Speaker 4: He deserves our help.
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Speaker 3: Sergeant Carrie Holmes said Saturday night, a mushroom hunter in
3:54
Speaker 3: the woods in rural Washington County discovered the body of
3:57
Speaker 3: a young boy.
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Speaker 4: He noticed something and went to invest gate and that's
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Speaker 4: what he found. So very disturbing, very shocking, very traumatic event,
4:04
Speaker 4: very sad event.
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Speaker 5: The man who found this boy, Jeff Meridith, is in
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Speaker 5: agony knowing he was one of.
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Speaker 1: The last people to see this child's face.
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Speaker 6: When I first saw that little fella, immediately I felt
4:18
Speaker 6: that he was telling me, help me, I need help.
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Speaker 1: It sounds like it's out of an Agatha Christie mystery.
4:29
Speaker 1: A mushroom hunter, how likely is that? Very unlikely? Finds
4:35
Speaker 1: a suitcase opens a suitcase and finds a little boy
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Speaker 1: dead inside. The first place you start is what was
4:43
Speaker 1: the cod cause of death? Listen our friend's whas eleven, a.
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Speaker 7: Boy found dead in southern Indiana, remains nameless. His story
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Speaker 7: and the suitcase he was found in have gained national attention,
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Speaker 7: hundreds of tips submitted, and still no answers, except for
5:00
Speaker 7: we now know how the boy died.
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Speaker 4: At this time there's no evidence. Then leads investigators to
5:06
Speaker 4: believe that he was alive when he went into the suitcase.
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Speaker 5: Sergeant Carrie Hole says investigators got the autopsy and toxicology
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Speaker 5: reports on May twentieth, seven days later, they share this
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Speaker 5: unnamed boy died from an electrolyte imbalance.
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Speaker 4: Most likely due to gastro enteritis, which in common Layman's
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Speaker 4: term would be vomiting in diarrhea, and that resulted in dehydration.
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Speaker 1: Fatal dehydration.
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Speaker 5: And he says the toxicology report found nothing significant.
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Speaker 1: So if a little boy dies of vomiting and diarrhea,
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Speaker 1: nobody noticed that he was vomiting and had horrible diarrhea
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Speaker 1: till he was being starved, there was nothing in him
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Speaker 1: anymore and he just died. Where was he and I
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Speaker 1: guarantee it and crawl into a suitcase and die and
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Speaker 1: closed that suitcase and maneuver into the woods in Indiana.
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Speaker 1: That didn't happen. So we have a cod cause of death,
6:04
Speaker 1: but still no name. Well, that little boy now has
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Speaker 1: a name. Listen to our friends at the Indiana State Police.
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Speaker 4: At this time, we can also identify, excuse me, identify
6:20
Speaker 4: the young man that was found in the suitcase. He
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Speaker 4: was Cairo Amar Jordan. Cairo Amar Jordan was from Atlanta, Jeordian, Georgia.
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Speaker 8: Excuse me.
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Speaker 4: He was five years old at the time of his
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Speaker 4: death and Cairo would have turned six on October twenty fourth. Again,
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Speaker 4: Cairo Amar Jordan. He was five from Atlanta, Georgia.
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Speaker 3: A man hunting for mushrooms made the discovery in Washington County,
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Speaker 3: Indiana on April sixteenth, but it wasn't until today that
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Speaker 3: investigators identified the little boy found inside as Cairo Jordan
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Speaker 3: from Metro Atlanta. People who live in that Indiana community
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Speaker 3: have weeded since spring for answers. They named the child Angel,
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Speaker 3: and strangers were overcome with the motion as they held
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Speaker 3: this memorial service forty six days after his body was found.
7:05
Speaker 3: Now their local mystery has turned into a nationwide search
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Speaker 3: to find the child's mother.
7:10
Speaker 1: You were just hearing our friends at WSB too as
7:13
Speaker 1: well and with me an all star panel to make
7:15
Speaker 1: sense of what we know right now, including Max Lewis
7:18
Speaker 1: from Fox fifty nine in Indianapolis. But first I want
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Speaker 1: to go to Detective Matt Busick joining us from the
7:26
Speaker 1: Indiana State Police. Detective Busick, thank you for being with us, Yes, man,
7:31
Speaker 1: thank you. Detective. Do you recall when you first learned?
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Speaker 1: I mean, let me ask you something off point. Do
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Speaker 1: you have children?
7:39
Speaker 9: Yes, we do?
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Speaker 1: How many?
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Speaker 8: Six?
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Speaker 1: Actually I'm guessing one of those is a little boy.
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Speaker 8: Yes, I have three boys and three girls.
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Speaker 1: Do you recall when you first learned, Detective Music, that
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Speaker 1: a five year old little boy weighing forty pounds was
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Speaker 1: found folded up dead in a Vegas suitcase?
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Speaker 9: Yes, ma'am, how I do you recall that?
8:02
Speaker 1: Tell me about it?
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Speaker 8: Well, yes, it's very disturbing, Yes it is.
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Speaker 1: I pictured my own children to doctor Thomas Plant joining me,
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Speaker 1: Professor of Psychology and Religious Studies, and you'll see why
8:14
Speaker 1: he is so very critical in our discussion today, Adjunct
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Speaker 1: Professor of Psychiatry at Stanford University, Editor of Spirituality and
8:23
Speaker 1: Clinical Practice, author of Human Interaction with the Divine, Sacred Deceased.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Plant, thank you so much for being with us.
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Speaker 9: Well, thank you for inviting me.
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Speaker 1: Yes, sir, When I first heard about a five year
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Speaker 1: old boy folded over dead like an old coat in
8:39
Speaker 1: a suitcase, abandoned, no idea where he came from, and
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Speaker 1: critically no one had reported him missing, all I could
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Speaker 1: think about were my children, John, David and Lucy at
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Speaker 1: age five, and how defenseless they were, Doctor Plant, does
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Speaker 1: the nature of crimes like this ever keep you from
9:06
Speaker 1: a clearhead?
9:07
Speaker 9: Well, of course, we're all emotional human beings, and we
9:09
Speaker 9: all have emotional reactions, and we all can probably relate
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Speaker 9: as parents like yourself, like myself, and like so many others,
9:18
Speaker 9: to what would it be like to discover our own
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Speaker 9: child in such an awful, horrific condition, And so, of
9:27
Speaker 9: course we always can relate, And yet we have to
9:31
Speaker 9: be objective and thoughtful and try to do the best
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Speaker 9: we can to understand the situation and act accordingly.
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Speaker 1: Straight out to Max Lewis, joining US reporter with Fox
9:41
Speaker 1: fifty nine in Indianapolis, Max, I'm sure you recall when
9:45
Speaker 1: this Vegas suitcase was first discovered in Indianapolis. With obviously
9:50
Speaker 1: you don't know whether the child is from Vegas or
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Speaker 1: Indianapolis or somewhere else.
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Speaker 10: It was shocking this kind of thing, doesn't you know.
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Speaker 10: We don't see this kind of thing every day. Were
10:00
Speaker 10: see this, and yeah, there were so many questions. It's
10:03
Speaker 10: such a mystery. Where is this kid from? Why was
10:06
Speaker 10: he found out in the woods in rural southern Indiana.
10:09
Speaker 10: There were just so many questions for so long, and
10:12
Speaker 10: police really, from what we could tell, had nothing to
10:15
Speaker 10: go on. And luckily they were able to, you know,
10:18
Speaker 10: to find out some things and efficially give this this
10:21
Speaker 10: little boy in the suitcase of names.
10:35
Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace. Remember a man who was
10:39
Speaker 1: the mushroom hunting found the body of a little boy
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Speaker 1: in a secluded wooded area Washington County, about eighty feet
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Speaker 1: off a rural road in Indiana. It was April seventeen,
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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, over one year ago. Police release info
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Speaker 1: in the case, asking for help to ida the child
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Speaker 1: or parents. They announced a dedicated tip line for information
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Speaker 1: one eight eight eight four three seven six four three two.
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Speaker 1: They released information about the body, about the suitcase. People
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Speaker 1: living there in New Peaking came together for a vigil
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Speaker 1: to show their support, praying his case would be solved.
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Speaker 1: The child died from electrolyte imbalance, mostly due to vomiting
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Speaker 1: and diarrhea leading to dehydration. The suffering this child endured.
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Speaker 1: Steph Kramer, how do you go about how did they
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Speaker 1: identify the body as little tyro.
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Speaker 11: In this particular case. I think it was a combination
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Speaker 11: of single prints that were on the suitcase. I think
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Speaker 11: that was the meaning.
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Speaker 1: I think you're absolutely right, Steve Kramer, Steve joining us
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Speaker 1: from Indago Solutions. Guys, take a listen to our friends
11:52
Speaker 1: at WSB.
11:54
Speaker 3: Dewan Anderson is now charged with murder as that.
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Speaker 4: No crime scene evidence technologies were spared in this case.
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Speaker 3: According to court documents, police identified Anderson through fingerprints on
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Speaker 3: trash bags used to wrap the child's body, and autopsy
12:09
Speaker 3: report shows Jordan did not suffer any signs of physical trauma.
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Speaker 4: The autopsy listed the cause of death as an electro
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Speaker 4: lte and balance that caused a viral gastroonitis.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that is dehydration of Police believe after dumping
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Speaker 3: that body that Anderson went to California with a woman
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Speaker 3: named Don Coleman. Investigators were able to arrest Coleman in
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Speaker 3: San Francisco, but they have yet to track down Anderson.
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Speaker 3: They are still looking for her.
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Speaker 1: So mommy's fingerprints, Steve Kramer, you called it, we're all
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Speaker 1: over that trash bag. So I guess, then, Steve Kramer,
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Speaker 1: they find mommy and then they can deduce that it's
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Speaker 1: baby Tyro. Was that your thinking, Steve, Yeah, Craig.
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Speaker 11: That's I think the logical deducement. Once they did some
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Speaker 11: additional background information on Anderson, I think it was clear
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Speaker 11: that she was traveling apparently all over the country with
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Speaker 11: her child and with her friend Don Coleman, whose fingerprints
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Speaker 11: also I understand we're found on the suitcase.
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Speaker 1: Oh okay, right there, Wait a minute, So Max Lewis
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Speaker 1: joining us investigative reporter with Fox fifty nine. We know
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Speaker 1: that mommy and her friend, her running buddy, left fingerprints
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Speaker 1: all over the trash bag. But I mean, think about
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Speaker 1: that image putting the child in a trash bag and
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Speaker 1: in a suitcase and leaving it. Max Lewis, I want
13:43
Speaker 1: you to take a listen to our friends WLKY and THHR.
13:48
Speaker 1: On April fourteenth.
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Speaker 4: Investigators say cell phone towers and a home security camera
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Speaker 4: placed Anderson and Coleman in Pecan, Indiana.
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Speaker 11: Near the wooded area where Jordan's body was found.
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Speaker 4: This whole case is all about justice for Cairo. That's
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Speaker 4: the only thing this case has ever been about.
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Speaker 12: Investigators found a fingerprint on a trash bag in the
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Speaker 12: suitcase with the boy's body in June. The fingerprint match
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Speaker 12: was made to the one Anderson. Another fingerprint from the
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Speaker 12: trash bag in the suitcase match Don Coleman. The cell
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Speaker 12: phones of both women placed them in the area of
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Speaker 12: Peak in April fourteenth, two days before the suitcase was found.
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Speaker 12: Coleman's social media accounts include photos and videos of her
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Speaker 12: with a Las Vegas suitcase.
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Speaker 1: Straight out to Max Lewis, So what role did cell
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Speaker 1: phone pings play and the identification of the mother as
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Speaker 1: a suspect.
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Speaker 10: It played a huge role the police. You know, they
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Speaker 10: were both in the Metro Louisville area for quite a while,
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Speaker 10: and so once they sort of you know, got their fingerprints,
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Speaker 10: made the connection to them, they started piecing all of
14:56
Speaker 10: this stuff together. They had, as you've heard in Chris
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Speaker 10: prop the country together. Once they got into Louisville. They
15:04
Speaker 10: came there, which is close to where this suitcase was
15:07
Speaker 10: found in the wooded area is not too far outside
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Speaker 10: Metro Louisville, and they used those cell phone powers and
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Speaker 10: were able to show that they were in the exact
15:15
Speaker 10: vicinity where that suitcase was found. Obviously no coincidence there.
15:19
Speaker 1: And I bet anything jo Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics that
15:24
Speaker 1: the two cell phones were traveling together, the devil and
15:27
Speaker 1: the Devil's minion.
15:29
Speaker 8: Yeah, how do you get two people to enter into
15:31
Speaker 8: an agreement where they're going to do this to this
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Speaker 8: baby like this? And Nancy, I don't want to gloss
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Speaker 8: over this, this whole gastro enter ritis thing.
15:40
Speaker 1: Thank you. I don't either go ahead.
15:43
Speaker 8: As horrible as as it sounds, it would have been
15:45
Speaker 8: more more merciful if that even exists in this context,
15:50
Speaker 8: to put this baby out of his misery. Gastro enter eyes. Essentially,
15:53
Speaker 8: what he had was stomach flue and we can all
15:55
Speaker 8: identify with that, but it was untreated. Nancy. You remember
15:59
Speaker 8: when our babies were a little and we'd go out and
16:00
Speaker 8: get them pedia light perhaps or make the peda light
16:03
Speaker 8: popsicles because they've got a tummy problem, and his bowel
16:07
Speaker 8: was so inflamed, and that's what they found at autopsy,
16:10
Speaker 8: that was what was evidence there. His bowel was so
16:13
Speaker 8: inflamed that it led to his death and he would
16:16
Speaker 8: have been vomiting. Plus he would have had severe stomach
16:19
Speaker 8: cramps where he would be doubled over, and probably the
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Speaker 8: worst of this is that he would have had like
16:25
Speaker 8: explosive bowel movements as well explosive diarrhea essentially, and he
16:30
Speaker 8: was going, this is this is the horror. He's going untreated.
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Speaker 8: They couldn't even give this baby electrolytes, which you can
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Speaker 8: find in any number of things like pedia light or.
16:39
Speaker 1: Take him to the dock in a box, no offense,
16:42
Speaker 1: all u MD's. They hate being called that.
16:44
Speaker 8: Yeah, it would have been It would have been that simple.
16:46
Speaker 8: They could have just hung an IV on this baby
16:48
Speaker 8: and he would have potentially survived.
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Speaker 1: But they stood by, sat by the two of these
16:54
Speaker 1: women and let him suffer like that. Just think about
16:58
Speaker 1: your intestine swollen, red, hurting. Why do you get that, Jiscott, It's.
17:06
Speaker 8: As a result of this absence of electrolytes.
17:09
Speaker 1: Now, I mean, how do you get the diarrhea and
17:12
Speaker 1: the uncontrolled vomiting to start with, where does that come from?
17:15
Speaker 8: Well, this is as a result of the viral gastroenterritis,
17:20
Speaker 8: and they're saying viral. So he literally had some type
17:24
Speaker 8: of virus in his body. Okay, like a Nora virus
17:27
Speaker 8: or one of these things that floats around that leads
17:29
Speaker 8: to a viral infection and many times it'll set in
17:32
Speaker 8: in your gut like this. And so as you're losing
17:36
Speaker 8: all of these fluids, he's becoming dehydrated, Nancy. So he's
17:39
Speaker 8: losing these little electrolytes. And there's a variety of them.
17:42
Speaker 8: You've got sodium and chloride and potassium. But basically they're
17:45
Speaker 8: kind of the guardrails that keep our heart functioning, our
17:49
Speaker 8: brain functioning. It keeps us you know, he could have
17:51
Speaker 8: had a seizure.
17:52
Speaker 1: Well, Scott, sorry to interrupt you, but according to mommy,
17:56
Speaker 1: you're perfectly wrong. Oh really, because she believes and had
18:01
Speaker 1: nothing to do with the virus and it had everything
18:04
Speaker 1: to do with the devil. Take a listen to our
18:10
Speaker 1: cut thirty three.
18:11
Speaker 12: Wrnhas social media posts from both women that indicate they
18:17
Speaker 12: thought the boy was demon possessed eight days before the
18:20
Speaker 12: body was discovered Coleman posted nothing is what it seems,
18:24
Speaker 12: and we are catering to evil beings and children avatars
18:28
Speaker 12: that aren't even children, and five days before the body
18:31
Speaker 12: was discovered, Anderson posted, I have survived the death attacks
18:35
Speaker 12: from my five year old throughout the five years he
18:37
Speaker 12: has been alive. I have been able to weaken his
18:40
Speaker 12: powers through our blood.
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Speaker 5: The probable cause affidavit shows Anderson sent Facebook messages claiming
18:46
Speaker 5: her son was a demon who tried to harm her.
18:48
Speaker 5: She wrote to an Indiana pastor saying she believed he
18:51
Speaker 5: was actually one hundred years old and she used blood
18:55
Speaker 5: for some kind of exorcism. In reality, he was a
18:58
Speaker 5: defenseless five year old boy.
19:00
Speaker 1: Do I have to say the words? Lauri Valo? Calt mom,
19:04
Speaker 1: Laurie Valo and her what was he? Jackie? Her fourth
19:10
Speaker 1: or fifth husband? Chad Dabel, His wife mysteriously died in
19:16
Speaker 1: her sleep. She was as healthy as a horse, and
19:18
Speaker 1: she just ran a marathon and then she dies in
19:21
Speaker 1: her sleep. Uh Uh, they killed her. It's a crutch
19:26
Speaker 1: using some completely opposite religion of what Christ intended. That.
19:36
Speaker 1: I'm an expert, but I'm pretty sure this is not
19:40
Speaker 1: what he had in mind. Calling your five year old
19:44
Speaker 1: child the devil and demanding an exorcism. Both mommy Desjohn
19:50
Speaker 1: Anderson and her friend don Elaine Coleman's fingerprints found on
19:56
Speaker 1: the trash bag that in case baby George body. Law
20:02
Speaker 1: enforcement still actively seeking them other, but it just doesn't
20:06
Speaker 1: make sense to me calling your five year old child
20:10
Speaker 1: the devil and demanding an exorcism with us. Doctor Thomas Plant,
20:17
Speaker 1: you heard him earlier, professor's Psychology and Religious Studies, Clinical
20:21
Speaker 1: professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Stanford and the
20:25
Speaker 1: editor of Spirituality and Clinical Practice, author of Human Interaction
20:30
Speaker 1: with the Divine, the Sacred, and the Deceased. Psychological, Scientific
20:35
Speaker 1: and Theological Perspectives, Doctor Plant, what do you make of this?
20:41
Speaker 9: Well, you know, I think the bottom line is, you know,
20:44
Speaker 9: psychopathology can be a really terrible and brutal thing, and
20:49
Speaker 9: you can't diagnose someone from afar. But what it sounds
20:54
Speaker 9: like is that this as what given the data that's
20:57
Speaker 9: been presented, is that it sounds like the person has
21:00
Speaker 9: a psychotic disorder. Perhaps it's schizophrenia, could be bipolar, could
21:05
Speaker 9: be since she has another person involved with this according
21:11
Speaker 9: to the report, you would wonder about what's called a
21:13
Speaker 9: shared delusional disorder or a felia do, where two people
21:19
Speaker 9: share the same delusion.
21:20
Speaker 1: Right, are you speaking French or Latin? Flee I do?
21:23
Speaker 1: That's two do?
21:25
Speaker 9: Le I do is French. It means a folly of two,
21:28
Speaker 9: and that's a diagnosis also called shared delusional disorder.
21:33
Speaker 1: Doctor Plant, I am just a JD. You are the
21:38
Speaker 1: professor of psychology and religious studies. Hold on, just's so
21:42
Speaker 1: much at once? Folly of two? Felei I do? And
21:47
Speaker 1: because I can accept that one person could be schizophrenic
21:51
Speaker 1: or have some type of psychotic disorder, but two of
21:54
Speaker 1: them together in the same room and they agree to
21:58
Speaker 1: kill a baby and all them up like a blanket
22:01
Speaker 1: and put them in a suitcase, that to me is unreasonable.
22:07
Speaker 1: There would be two people equally psychotic, which leads me
22:11
Speaker 1: with one answer. They're murderers. They knew what they were doing.
22:16
Speaker 1: They're hiding behind some crazy religious belief and they're main
22:20
Speaker 1: as well.
22:20
Speaker 9: Well. As I mentioned, you can't diagnose from afar. But
22:24
Speaker 9: according to the American Psychiatric Association, there are a legitimate
22:30
Speaker 9: diagnosis called felia do or now it's called shared delusional disorder,
22:34
Speaker 9: and you do see it and I've seen some of
22:36
Speaker 9: those cases a lot.
22:37
Speaker 1: Have you seen a lot of them?
22:38
Speaker 9: No, No, it's pretty unusual, but it's there, just like
22:42
Speaker 9: for example, schizophrenia affects maybe about one out of one
22:45
Speaker 9: hundred people, which is and felia DO or shared delusional
22:50
Speaker 9: disorder would probably be about one out of a thousand
22:53
Speaker 9: people or so. That may or may not be the diagnosis.
22:57
Speaker 9: But I think the bottom line is you've got major
22:59
Speaker 9: psychopathology here, and I think that's probably pretty clear. And
23:04
Speaker 9: the question is, you know, what do you do when
23:08
Speaker 9: you have a situation where people have such severe disorders
23:13
Speaker 9: and they have children in their possession or in their custody.
23:19
Speaker 9: That brings into issues of you know, child protection and
23:23
Speaker 9: so forth, which are often challenging to deal with them.
23:29
Speaker 9: There was probably early signs. This probably wasn't the first
23:33
Speaker 9: sign that this child was in trouble.
23:35
Speaker 1: To Steve Kramer, former FBI attorney, federal prosecutor president in
23:40
Speaker 1: Doggo's Solutions, you know what, I am a Christian. I'm
23:46
Speaker 1: seeking the truth every day trying to live it. But
23:50
Speaker 1: this theory of hiding behind your religion in order to
23:56
Speaker 1: do horrible things, I'm not quite sure how to call
24:00
Speaker 1: out and we see it all the time. When I
24:03
Speaker 1: mentioned called mom Laurie Valo using her apocalyptic religious beliefs
24:09
Speaker 1: and she gets slung up with Chad Davebell the prophet
24:13
Speaker 1: And for those of you that can't see me, I
24:15
Speaker 1: absolutely used air quotes on that. And I've seen over
24:19
Speaker 1: and over and over Steve Kramer parents has some religious
24:24
Speaker 1: belief and they ended up starving their children or beating
24:31
Speaker 1: them all in the name of Dare I say it God?
24:36
Speaker 1: And frankly, I mean I hear doctor Plant. I know
24:39
Speaker 1: he's a lot smarter than me, for sure, but it
24:45
Speaker 1: just doesn't make sense to me that a mother who
24:49
Speaker 1: could drive hide her baby still on the land. By
24:54
Speaker 1: the way, she's crazy, but she can elude police and
24:59
Speaker 1: plan her next spot. She's still not caught. She's got
25:03
Speaker 1: Indiana State troopers standing on their ears trying to find her.
25:07
Speaker 1: There's a nationwide alert for her. So how crazy? Issues
25:11
Speaker 1: she crazy like a fox? Steve Kramer? Does she have
25:15
Speaker 1: some psychosis? And if so, do you really believe both
25:21
Speaker 1: of them are delusional? I heard what doctor Plant said
25:25
Speaker 1: about Phillya. Do folly of two share delusional disorder? Not bien,
25:33
Speaker 1: I'll convict both of these women. Literally, their fingerprints are
25:38
Speaker 1: all over the garbage bag they stuff this child into.
25:42
Speaker 11: You're turn Cramer, Yeah, I mean to call this a religion,
25:46
Speaker 11: Come on, that's nonsense.
25:47
Speaker 1: I mean, this is you know, babbeling, not you, doctor Plant,
25:51
Speaker 1: not you.
25:52
Speaker 11: No, no, no, of course, know that.
25:54
Speaker 1: The last thing I want to do is get a preacher.
25:56
Speaker 12: Man.
25:57
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't even need that in my life. Go ahead, Cramer,
26:01
Speaker 1: just let's make sure you got your Plant knows it's
26:04
Speaker 1: not about him. But what do you say exactly what
26:06
Speaker 1: they're going to claim with trial if they're ever caught, Ah, exactly.
26:10
Speaker 11: I mean putting the stuff out on Facebook and Twitter
26:13
Speaker 11: about you know, their child is you know, an avatar
26:18
Speaker 11: and my child's somehow possessed or I had to do
26:21
Speaker 11: some healing and I had to do some killing. I mean,
26:24
Speaker 11: the stuff they're saying. I mean, this is actually, unfortunately
26:28
Speaker 11: not that uncommon. You know, we see cases like you
26:30
Speaker 11: mentioned the Lori Vallo Chad dave Bell case where she
26:34
Speaker 11: killed her own children. We see other cases a lot
26:37
Speaker 11: of times when we find children, young children like this
26:41
Speaker 11: that are incapable of taking care of themselves, that are
26:45
Speaker 11: abandoned someplace dead. The bodies when we eventually identify the parents,
26:50
Speaker 11: they are off with having some affair, the child was
26:53
Speaker 11: an inconvenience, or they're on some drug high again the
26:57
Speaker 11: child's an inconvenience. So that aspect is now really uncommon.
27:01
Speaker 11: And I think in this particular case, I mean, you.
27:04
Speaker 1: Look at it.
27:04
Speaker 11: I mean she said I had to do some healing
27:07
Speaker 11: and killing, and that was around April twelfth, and the
27:11
Speaker 11: body was found two days later, April fourteenth. And I
27:14
Speaker 11: was pointing out one key thing with this, and you
27:18
Speaker 11: mentioned it earlier too, Nancy.
27:20
Speaker 1: Is.
27:22
Speaker 11: I didn't think they were doing anything wrong? Then why
27:24
Speaker 11: did to hide the baby or the five year old
27:26
Speaker 11: in a suitcase and put it out in the field.
27:28
Speaker 11: And why are they on the land now? What are
27:29
Speaker 11: they running from? That they haven't done anything wrong. So
27:33
Speaker 11: clearly she knows that she's done something wrong. But what
27:35
Speaker 11: I find most interesting is her accomplice, John Coleman. They
27:40
Speaker 11: were both wanted on warrants of neglect of a dependent
27:44
Speaker 11: and obstruction of justice, and Coleman was arrested on the
27:49
Speaker 11: nineteenth of October. Less than a week later, those charges
27:53
Speaker 11: were upgraded to murder against miss Anderson. So Obviously she
27:59
Speaker 11: probably said something to the police exactly what happened with
28:02
Speaker 11: this child that allowed the police and the prosecutors to
28:05
Speaker 11: upgrade the charges from neglect to murder.
28:07
Speaker 1: Take a listen to wt are a judge sentence Don
28:11
Speaker 1: Coleman this morning in Cairo Jordan's death.
28:14
Speaker 13: This judge did not mince words. He told Don Coleman
28:18
Speaker 13: in court today, you packaged Cairo like trash. He was
28:22
Speaker 13: an innocent little boy who just wanted to be loved.
28:25
Speaker 8: Do you have wicked beliefs in wicked ways?
28:29
Speaker 13: Pointed words from a Washington County judge tuesday as he
28:33
Speaker 13: sentenced Don Coleman. Now she'll spend a quarter century in prison.
28:37
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, the walls of your jail seale for the next
28:41
Speaker 2: twenty five years will be nothing.
28:45
Speaker 8: Compared to the walls of that suitcase.
28:48
Speaker 2: I hope the image is forever edged in your memory.
28:52
Speaker 13: Under the plea deal, Coleman has agreed to testify against
28:55
Speaker 13: Anderson when she's found and has her own day in court.
29:10
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace. There's such a history Steve
29:17
Speaker 1: hiding behind some kind of religion. Why your child dies?
29:20
Speaker 1: Let's see, there's two year old I'm going to listen
29:23
Speaker 1: last night, Ella Grace her parents, Jonathan and Grace Ford,
29:28
Speaker 1: thought it was God's will their little two year old die.
29:31
Speaker 1: Then there's nine year old Jason Lockhart out of Oklahoma,
29:35
Speaker 1: much the same, sixteen year old Neil Bigley, much the same,
29:40
Speaker 1: and they hide behind religion while their child dies. That's
29:46
Speaker 1: what I'm seeing. I mean, Max Lewis Fox fifty nine
29:50
Speaker 1: joining us. So I'm Indianapolis. What's the reaction to Mommy
29:54
Speaker 1: claiming her child was possessed?
29:56
Speaker 10: Well, you know, it's and sort of speechless myself, and
30:02
Speaker 10: I think that's the way everybody else was. You know,
30:05
Speaker 10: she had tried to reach out to this priest in
30:08
Speaker 10: southeastern Indiana who was a well known performer of exorcists,
30:11
Speaker 10: Vatican trained exorcist, and wasn't able to get.
30:16
Speaker 9: A hold of him.
30:17
Speaker 10: And so that claim, I think, or that sort of
30:20
Speaker 10: claim from her and the Facebook post that you were mentioning,
30:23
Speaker 10: I think was really shocking to everybody. I do want
30:26
Speaker 10: to make a point about something that doctor Plant said.
30:29
Speaker 10: He said that this child was likely in danger before,
30:33
Speaker 10: or there were likely signs before. Well there was. She
30:36
Speaker 10: was actually these two women, Mom and Don Coleman actually
30:41
Speaker 10: got into a car chase. Court records showdown in South Carolina.
30:45
Speaker 10: They were running from the police, going over ninety miles
30:48
Speaker 10: an hour on the interstate, and the kit and the
30:51
Speaker 10: little boy, Kirote was in the car with them. I
30:54
Speaker 10: mean that doesn't you know, spell danger? I don't know
30:57
Speaker 10: what does? So you know clear, I think what doctor
31:01
Speaker 10: Plant said is correct. This boy was in danger before,
31:04
Speaker 10: had been in danger, and unfortunately the peers the right
31:08
Speaker 10: steps weren't taken and he ended up in this suitcase dead.
31:12
Speaker 1: Why wasn't the baby taken away then, Max Lewis, I mean,
31:16
Speaker 1: his siblings have been taken away, Why not him?
31:19
Speaker 10: I don't know, you know, it's really a mystery and
31:23
Speaker 10: something that probably authorities in South Carolina maybe need to
31:26
Speaker 10: answer for. Because when this car chase in ended, you know,
31:30
Speaker 10: Anderson was the one driving, the mom was the one driving,
31:34
Speaker 10: and then Don Coleman was in the passenger seat. The
31:36
Speaker 10: baby was in the backseat. When this police chase ended
31:39
Speaker 10: because they ran out of gas. They basically just dropped
31:42
Speaker 10: Don Coleman and the child off at a motel and
31:45
Speaker 10: took the mom to jail, and so she was the
31:50
Speaker 10: child was given right back to them.
31:52
Speaker 1: Wow. Sounds like de facts, the Parming family, Chieldness services
31:56
Speaker 1: on and again. Now they have another dance. Seemingly nobody
32:03
Speaker 1: but me cares because it keeps happening every day. Children
32:07
Speaker 1: in horrible, dangerous situations are left there because Child Protector
32:12
Speaker 1: Services does nothing. Now, speaking of exorcism, take a listener
32:17
Speaker 1: friends at Fox fifty nine.
32:18
Speaker 14: Yeahfi David in the case details a series of strange
32:21
Speaker 14: social media posts police see Kyrol's mother sent about demons, exorcism,
32:26
Speaker 14: and dark magic in the days before he was found.
32:28
Speaker 14: On April twelfth, Anderson reached out to an Indianapolis priest,
32:32
Speaker 14: Father Vincent Lampert, from the Archdiocese of Indianapolis on Twitter.
32:36
Speaker 14: Father Lampert is one of dozens of priests who are
32:38
Speaker 14: exorcists in the US, as you may know, and exorcist is.
32:41
Speaker 1: Someone trained to cast out demons.
32:43
Speaker 14: Father Lampert told us it's rare that a child dealing
32:46
Speaker 14: with quote demonic possession.
32:49
Speaker 15: There's no such thing as an emergency exorcism. It really
32:53
Speaker 15: begins with the person having a psychiatric evaluation by qualified
32:57
Speaker 15: psychologists or psychiatrists, and then having a medical examination by
33:01
Speaker 15: her family doctor.
33:03
Speaker 1: Mommy Anderson talks online about needing a quote exorcism on
33:09
Speaker 1: her son to remove his demonic force. She even made
33:14
Speaker 1: a post about telling her story in a book or
33:17
Speaker 1: podcast about living with a quote demonic child. Doctor plant,
33:22
Speaker 1: What exactly is an exorcism?
33:25
Speaker 9: An exorcist is trained to perform a ritual. As you know,
33:30
Speaker 9: the Catholic Church has lots of rituals, and this is
33:34
Speaker 9: one a ritual that of training so that they it's
33:41
Speaker 9: they're trained through the Vatican and so forth. The Vatican
33:43
Speaker 9: approved and exorcists like this gentleman you just mentioned, and
33:51
Speaker 9: including the exorcists that I've worked with, we'll say that
33:54
Speaker 9: ninety nine point nine percent of the time of cases
33:58
Speaker 9: are major psychopathiclogy and what's necessary is a psychiatric evaluation
34:03
Speaker 9: or medical evaluation and so forth, and their troubles are
34:07
Speaker 9: really in that arena. And I think that's true when
34:13
Speaker 9: it comes to religion. Sadly and tragically, some people use
34:18
Speaker 9: religion for great harm and some people use religion for
34:22
Speaker 9: great good. And I think that it's sort of like
34:25
Speaker 9: a car. You know, a car can be a great thing.
34:27
Speaker 9: It gets you where you want to go, But a
34:29
Speaker 9: car in the hands of a drunk driver is a
34:32
Speaker 9: terrible weapon. The same is true with religion. In this case,
34:36
Speaker 9: as you said, this woman may have been using those
34:40
Speaker 9: imagery and things like that to justify her behavior, which
34:44
Speaker 9: is horrific. But you know, sadly, that is a common
34:50
Speaker 9: phenomenon across the world, and it always has been, where
34:54
Speaker 9: people project their troubles and whatnot onto kind of religion
34:59
Speaker 9: and then justify their actions in that way.
35:02
Speaker 1: What you said is entirely true. Doctor Plant just got Morgan.
35:08
Speaker 1: I know forensics, I know crime, and that's what I'm
35:12
Speaker 1: going to fall back home when I don't understand the rest.
35:16
Speaker 1: I want you, specifically to take a listen to Courtney Spinelli.
35:20
Speaker 1: Fox fifty nine.
35:21
Speaker 16: A child who for months was only known as the
35:23
Speaker 16: boy found in a suitcase in rural Indiana, now has
35:26
Speaker 16: a name. Five year old Cairo Jordan.
35:29
Speaker 14: Is Sue hasn't really suckond d.
35:32
Speaker 16: Cairo's paternal grandparents and great uncles say they only learned
35:35
Speaker 16: he died one day ago.
35:36
Speaker 6: I would have wanted to know what kind of person
35:39
Speaker 6: he would have come to be, things.
35:42
Speaker 16: Like whether he would have grown up to play football
35:44
Speaker 16: like his dad did when he was younger. Authorities are
35:47
Speaker 16: still trying to find Cairo's mother, Dejon Anderson, now charged
35:51
Speaker 16: in his murder.
35:52
Speaker 8: Dall she had to do with you? You know, let
35:54
Speaker 8: us know? And what are he usually talking?
35:57
Speaker 1: How many children just got Morgan death? Investigator? Have you
36:03
Speaker 1: been at the murder scene, the homicide scene, the death scene,
36:07
Speaker 1: the autopsy where mommy or daddy is the killer? But
36:13
Speaker 1: the rest of the family did nothing. They knew there
36:17
Speaker 1: was a problem. How could this family not know mommy
36:20
Speaker 1: was arrested for a felony in South Carolina and got
36:23
Speaker 1: the child back.
36:24
Speaker 8: And that's counting on the fact that the individual had
36:28
Speaker 8: contact with her family. But lots of times you'll have
36:30
Speaker 8: these individuals that will know, I mean, they will know
36:34
Speaker 8: that what's going on within that household is wrong, and
36:39
Speaker 8: nobody interdicts it because nobody wants to get crossways with
36:42
Speaker 8: the family members. Nobody wants to create a problem with
36:45
Speaker 8: the family members and all for what. Now, in this
36:48
Speaker 8: particular case, you've got this baby who was abandoned like garbage.
36:53
Speaker 8: Let's just face it, that's the way he was treated
36:55
Speaker 8: out in the middle of the woods. And you can't
36:59
Speaker 8: tell me there weren't red flags leading up to this.
37:01
Speaker 8: I've seeing this over and over and over again, hard.
37:05
Speaker 1: To believe that with all of the available tools at
37:08
Speaker 1: our fingertips Mommy to John Anderson, still on the run
37:14
Speaker 1: running from Lady Justice after her child found stuffed in
37:18
Speaker 1: a Vegas suitcase in the middle of the woods dead. Disturbingly,
37:24
Speaker 1: we learn Mommy Anderson arrested in South Carolina for child endangerment,
37:30
Speaker 1: speeding in failure to stop for officers. Anderson only stopped
37:34
Speaker 1: when she ran out of gas just before Tiny Kyrie's
37:37
Speaker 1: body was found. Mommy Anderson arrested in Louisville for shoplifting
37:42
Speaker 1: and assault. We learned that Mommy's friend Coleman, claims to
37:46
Speaker 1: have been babysitting Cairo after Anderson was arrested. After picking
37:50
Speaker 1: up Anderson, they went to stay at a cousin's home
37:53
Speaker 1: in Louisville. According to a witness, the witness comes into
37:57
Speaker 1: a bedroom to find Anderson on top of the baby boy,
38:00
Speaker 1: the boy facing down on a mattress. Court documents only
38:05
Speaker 1: recently released, claimed the witness told investigators quote it was
38:10
Speaker 1: already done when the witness came in the bedroom to
38:14
Speaker 1: find the little boy dead. Dejohn Anderson aka Mommy had
38:21
Speaker 1: already gathered trash bags in the bedroom used to stuff
38:26
Speaker 1: the tots body and a suitcase to somehow rationalize the murder.
38:33
Speaker 1: Mommy claimed her son was quote possessed as she drove
38:37
Speaker 1: to Indiana to dump the suitcase. Mommy's phone ping to
38:42
Speaker 1: peek in Indiana, not far from where Cairo's body found. Additionally,
38:47
Speaker 1: we learned surveillan's video from a property owner shows Mommy's
38:50
Speaker 1: car stop on the road where the suitcase was discovered.
38:56
Speaker 1: After coming social media, we learned that Mommy's friend and
39:00
Speaker 1: had the very same suitcase in which the boy's body
39:04
Speaker 1: was found on the very same day the Vegas suitcase
39:06
Speaker 1: was discovered. Video allegedly shows Mommy's car driving across a
39:11
Speaker 1: bridge from Indiana to Louisville. A felony murder arrest warrant
39:17
Speaker 1: has been issued for Anderson, but she's currently on the run.
39:22
Speaker 1: Last believed to be in the La area. Cops say
39:25
Speaker 1: they've searched for her in the Metro LA area but
39:29
Speaker 1: came up empty handed. Last known location Echo Park, LA,
39:35
Speaker 1: but she's known to travel far and wide, recently having
39:39
Speaker 1: been in San Francisco, San Diego, Las Vegas, and Houston.
39:44
Speaker 1: Her contacts reached all the way back to Georgia, where
39:47
Speaker 1: Little Cairo was born Anderson five five, one hundred and
39:52
Speaker 1: thirty five pounds, short, dark brown hair, and last known photo.
39:56
Speaker 1: Often prone to wear wigs or hair exton I don't
40:01
Speaker 1: care how many extensions she wears. Nothing is going to
40:04
Speaker 1: change those fingerprints. According to recently released court documents, we
40:08
Speaker 1: learned police use technology to pull fingerprints from trash bags
40:14
Speaker 1: that encased the tiny boy's body stuffed in a suitcase.
40:20
Speaker 1: Those prints a one hundred percent match to mommy, de
40:24
Speaker 1: jan Anderson. I want justice. I want Little Cairo's mother,
40:31
Speaker 1: Dejean Anderson brought back to court to face a jury
40:38
Speaker 1: and a true verdict. We wait as justice unfold. Goodbye friend,