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Understanding Free Will vs. Predestination: A Deep Dive · Relish: a Christian podcast

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  Relish pleasing or zestful flavor a quantity
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  just sufficient to flavor to be pleased or
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  gratified by enjoy we are hoping that what
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  we bring to your table today might add some spice
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  to your life welcome back ladies
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  and gentlemen to another episode of relish i'm rowan miller
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  and this is don patterson as always
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  i'm sorry what did we have for
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  breakfast it was good eggs hash
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  browns it's good stuff yeah yeah
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  it was very good well today
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  we're getting back to the usual format okay question answer don comes in cold
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  yeah the answer and and we hopefully will give some insight that's useful yeah
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  usually does very well all right we'll start We're ready.
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  I'm holding on here. We're ready.
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  Can Satan read our minds and can Satan put thoughts in our minds?
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  We do know that he can deceive. So by the fact that he can deceive us,
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  he can at least follow our thoughts.
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  And probably more so does that by cultivating the area around us.
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  I'm thinking of when Jesus was tempted. In the temptation of Jesus,
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  Satan was able to take him to a spot where he could say, okay,
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  here you are hungry, turn these stones into bread. I mean, that only makes sense.
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  And then Jesus could use scripture to refute him.
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  And then the pinnacle of the temple, throw yourself off if you are.
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  And so he could control the environment. He moved Jesus around.
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  Messed with Jesus. I think Satan can mess with us.
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  And I think he can put things in front of us to help to trip us.
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  I think that's sort of his business. He likes to do that. I don't know why it
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  gives him such satisfaction, but he does.
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  He just enjoys tripping us up because I don't think he doesn't want to be lonely
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  in hell for the rest of eternity.
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  So yes, I think he can. And if he doesn't directly control our thoughts,
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  he controls our environment to the point that he can distract us. Look at Job.
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  I mean, God gave him permission to do about so much, but that was also to prove
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  to Satan the faith that Job had.
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  And so he changed the environment, took away everything but his wife,
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  and I'm always wondering why he left her around. Anyway, but he did.
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  And in fact, it's almost as if Satan used her at one point.
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  Curse God and die, is what she said. And that doesn't really seem like that
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  was motivational or encouraging to Job.
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  Maybe that's why he left his wife. Maybe that's why. I can still use her,
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  Satan said. I can still use her.
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  And so he did. I don't think there's a scripture I could point to 100% that's
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  coming through my head, but somebody else out there might think of one that says he can control.
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  I don't think he can control our thoughts, but he definitely can influence them.
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  And it's always by an outside control. And we know that he can appear as an
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  angel of light and he can replicate, if you will, the book of Revelation.
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  He replicates the Trinity.
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  It's a beastly Trinity, but it's still a Trinity. And so he can duplicate well enough to influence.
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  Okay. So it's kind of a, he can tell how you're feeling.
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  He can tell kind of what your weakness is at the moment and then always change
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  something around you to influence.
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  Make it seem like he's putting enough in your mind. And his goal is to trip you.
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  And he wants to do that.
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  Yeah, that's as old as time. I mean, that's basically what he did to Eve.
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  Yeah. Yeah, he said he's going to kill you. I mean, he said you're going to
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  die, but look, here's good fruit.
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  And she eats it.
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  Well, I didn't die. Well, not right then.
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  You just wait. Yeah, it was part of what happened. Yeah.
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  Our NYF sponsor showed us a video, which he actually mentioned in church,
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  but it was the story of the Bible through Satan's perspective.
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  And from the start, it was Satan wanting to be like God.
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  So then that's why he was thrown out of heaven. That's exactly.
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  And then when God made humans in his image, So we're essentially what Satan wanted.
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  Then he's jealous and he's just trying to tear down all of humanity. Exactly.
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  Yeah. We're what he couldn't be. Yeah.
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  Yeah. And so, yeah, he doesn't want us, definitely does not want us to communicate,
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  have communion with God.
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  Yeah. He wants to get in the middle of that any way he possibly can.
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  So if you're having trouble getting into your devotional time,
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  well, that's not God keeping you from it.
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  Satan wants to trip you up in your communication with God.
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  I used to be so frustrated in prayer time because it seemed like there was always
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  something that came up in my time of prayer and distracted me from that time. Well, that wasn't God.
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  That was Satan trying to keep me away from that.
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  So, yeah, he's devious that way.
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  Yeah. All right. The next one, this one's kind of interesting, but is heaven our home?
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  Or is heaven our home? Not today, but it will be.
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  It's not today, but it will be. We know that John 14 talks about Jesus preparing
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  a place for us that to me, I think it's going to be comfortable.
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  I'm looking forward to it.
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  Yeah, I hope it has a nice trim.
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  I guess I know the carpenter, don't I? Yeah, we do know the carpenter.
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  And I think one of the things that catches my ear in that statement is while
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  heaven is our home, future tense, let's not be so heavenly minded where no earth are good.
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  So, yeah, heaven is our home. I'm looking forward to it, but I've got a task
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  and I've got things to do here.
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  I'm living for that kingdom that I'm going to later be part of.
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  So it's right now I'm living as an investment for home okay,
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  There was, my brother actually brought this up to me, but he mentioned,
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  I think he was listening to a podcast maybe or something. Really?
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  And the idea came that earth isn't our home and heaven isn't our home, but it's when they,
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  meet in tribulation and then
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  that's our home because we're here
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  for a temporary amount of time and then we're in heaven until jesus
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  comes and then that new heaven and earth is that's true is the home my mind
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  was thinking the revelation 22 okay place and uh very very nicely structured
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  good foundations 12 of them to be exact 12 validations yeah it's not gonna move,
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  yeah that was sort of in my mind the picture i was when you brought the question
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  heaven heaven is that eternal home that's coming in the future.
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  Yeah. Yeah. So, post-white throne judgment home. Okay. Yeah.
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  What is there for, or what hope is there for the future? Oh.
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  Well, depends on who you are and where your allegiances lie.
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  Yeah. No matter what happens in this world,
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  well we know it's going to be completely consumed so
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  this the future of this world is not
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  very bright well except for the all the fire involved but it's it's not very
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  bright for the future of this world i don't live for that future alone i live
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  into my future which would be the heaven we just talked about.
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  The in-between piece is only bright as we share Christ.
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  In other words, our goal is to make sure that as many people know about this
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  heaven and that a commitment to
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  Jesus Christ and a knowledge of his resurrection is the way to get there.
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  Then on top of that, I want to build with gold, silver, and precious stones.
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  1 Corinthians 3, verse 11 and following to 15.
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  Because the future of this earth is not bright.
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  But as I build on that foundation of Jesus Christ, there's a brightness that
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  can come to every heart and every life that knows Jesus.
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  Then they too will be able to share in that heaven for eternity.
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  So the future is not bright for what's going on in the present.
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  And we could really get depressed if we just lived for what might happen after today.
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  In fact, if you don't have a future mind in Christ, the news is really depressing.
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  I mean, yeah. I get phone calls. Did you know? Did you know?
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  Yeah. I hear the news too. Yeah.
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  So, yeah. If you live just for today, the future is not very,
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  and by today, I mean the next 25, 30 years.
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  But it doesn't mean we don't want to contribute to it being better.
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  Because as we contribute to it being better, we're also helping create a climate
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  for people who do not know Jesus yet.
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  Yeah. you're making that next the
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  you're making the next life better
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  yes you have more brothers and
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  sisters with you there right yeah i don't live for myself yeah i alone that
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  that makes no sense i mean really that's rather selfish isn't it yeah well i'm
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  just living for well it's gonna be hard for me and my investments and yeah no
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  let's get real this this this is bigger than that yeah,
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  yeah all right good question good we'll
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  see what you think about this one but this come from your brother too it's not
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  it came from you'll i'll see if you can guess who it was but you you know them
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  oh okay yeah then they're good people yes if i know you you're good people is
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  god left or right handed Isaiah from,
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  came from a Bible study on Isaiah 41, 10.
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  Oh, this is good. You got me. I can't pull that out of my head.
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  I'm sorry. I thought I could pull everything out of my head, but it, no.
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  For I will uphold you with my righteous right hand. He's right-handed.
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  Maybe. Maybe. Well, if we go by that verse. Yeah.
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  I really thought God was ambidextrous. Yeah.
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  But, you know, righteous right hand. Good job.
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  Whoever got that one, give them a point. They got done right off the bat.
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  Righteous right hand I don't know why I didn't think of that verse But I didn't
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  write that Righteous right hand So if he is He'd be right handed What a deal So was that Phil?
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  I don't know It's just a fun short question Okay Yeah Maybe he made Maybe he is ambidextrous,
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  But Made us Majority of us right handed or something Majority of us Although
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  some of us have skills that go left handed I don't think you do everything right-handed,
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  if I remember correctly.
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  Well, I can't right or throw or anything with my left hand. Okay.
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  That's all with my right hand. Okay. But I'll swing a bat and a golf club left-handed.
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  Serious. So the two sports that you're great in are left-handed sports for you. Yeah.
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  You ought to follow this guy in golf. He's good.
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  So that's interesting Yeah Cool I mean,
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  They're seeing a lot of people Every same way Okay I mean,
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  Liam's like that Okay I didn't know that I just You know If I can't do it with
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  my right hand There's Yeah It's just not gonna happen with my left Yeah Just
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  all there is to it I'm very right handed Yeah,
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  And God is too Praise the Lord,
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  Well, it doesn't really say that he's right-handed, but he's going to uphold
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  us with the righteous right hand.
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  Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. Why would he use his offhand there? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right.
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  All right. You should, you'll have this one. Why do we believe in free will over predestination?
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  Oh, because it's a choice. So, I go to Romans, and I see that we are now given
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  the choice for God in verses 8, verses 1-4.
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  And we go through that, and then we are called brothers.
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  And because of those who are led by the Spirit are sons of God.
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  And so, we're not predestined ahead of times. This is something that we make a choice to.
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  We make a choice for baptism. We make a choice for God and understand that we
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  are co-heirs with Christ if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that
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  we may also share in his glory.
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  So I, yeah, if you go through the first seven chapters, the eight chapter,
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  in fact, chapter seven is really good.
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  I know the good I ought to do and I want to do it, but instead I sin.
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  Well, doesn't that talk about, that's my choice, right?
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  Those are my choices. And so then if I'm struggling with those things,
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  it's not I who live, it's being tripped up.
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  Wretched man that I am, who will rescue me from this death? Thanks be to God
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  through Jesus Christ, our Lord.
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  So then I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in sinful nature, a slave to the law of sin.
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  So yeah, that means I have the free will to choose God's law over the law of sin, right? Yeah.
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  So that's my free will. Wow.
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  Do you know the verses or sections where they get the idea of predestination
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  from? Yep. It goes to the next chapter. Okay.
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  Because then you end up, in fact, you go in chapter 8 and you end up,
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  so in verse 29, oh, 28 leads right into it.
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  And we know that in all things, God works for the good of those who love him,
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  who have been called according to his purpose.
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  Oh, called. Hmm, that's interesting. that starts to nudge in that direction.
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  Then 29 says, for those he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his son.
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  Actually uses the word right there. But what does it mean by predestined?
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  Does it mean that he already mapped out the path ahead of time?
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  Well, then he just negated the first seven chapters.
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  Why have the first seven chapters if it's already predestined to be or not to be?
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  I mean, that is the question. So, if that's the case, then are you predestined
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  in all those attributes? No.
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  So the word predestined is used here, but not in the case of saying,
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  okay, then Rowan's going to be a Christian. He's going to be a Christian all his life.
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  That's already written out and it's all good. Right?
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  Definitely. Okay. But are you predestined to do so or do you have no way of saying otherwise?
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  I have a way of saying otherwise. We have a way of saying otherwise.
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  Otherwise, discipleship would be a wasted cause. Yeah.
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  Why should we look more like Christ? Why should we be stretched by Paul into
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  making sure that we no longer carry the other things, but carry the fruits of the Spirit?
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  He encourages us to do the fruits of the Spirit and not do the things of the flesh.
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  I mean, if we're predestined, that is a non-opening line.
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  I mean, it doesn't make any sense. So there's no reason to share the gospel
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  then. Right. No reason to share the gospel. No reason to disciple my life.
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  Yeah. I'm either in or out. Yeah.
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  And so definitely is not the concept of predestination in that it's written in stone. I'd say, yeah.
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  So that's where I'm coming from.
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  Yeah. And you can come in and question that. We can do that. I love it.
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  Yeah. Yeah. If you really want, we'd be glad to have you too.
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  Then Eve wouldn't have had any reason to think any differently in the garden, right? Yeah.
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  It was all predestined to happen, right? Mm-hmm.
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  No, it doesn't mean God doesn't know it's going to happen. Yeah,
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  right. Still knows it's going to happen, but. Yeah. Yeah. He knows us. Mm-hmm.
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  But it is a privilege to choose. Yeah. And we can choose to the Lord.
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  Yeah. Yeah. Good. Well, thank you as always, Don.
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  And yeah, share this with somebody Maybe somebody you know needs it,
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  wants it, is getting into the word Share it with them and ask questions Send us questions, yes,
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  We're good for that Anything like that, yeah We're good for that Not to Don
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  The idea is that we hope that somehow or another our conversation here is a
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  blessing to you And maybe nudges your discipleship just a little bit from where
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  you're at right now to a deeper relationship with our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Yeah.
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  We will see you next time. Lord, Lord. Thank you for joining us for this podcast.
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  Feel free to become part of this ministry by sharing it with others.
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  Our goal is to help each other grow deeper in our understanding of who God is
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  and His calling to us in our daily lives.
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  Thank you again for joining us, and may God bless your day.