Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Postcards from the Edge with Crystal

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Postcards from the Edge with Crystal · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the Bechdecast, the questions asked if movies have women
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: best start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Caitlin, yes, Jamie, should I sing?
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: Yes? Yes? You should?
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Should I podcast? That really was the equivalent of recording
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: a live podcast at your daughter's sobriety party. Yeah, to
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: be like, Okay, first of all, I'm fucked up. Second
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: of all, let's let's record a podcast.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: Yo, let's steal the show.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Welcome Home, not Carys make it all about me. I love,
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: oh oh, I love the degree to which this is
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: obviously carried. But Carrie has to be like, no, what
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: could you possibly mean me? What is it? The wig?
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Is it Shirley McLean's wig? Welcome to the becht Cast.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: My name is Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlin Droonte.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: This is our show where we examine movies through an
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel test simply as a
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: jumping off point. And Jamie, what on earth is that? Well,
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: the Bechdel test, We're not gonna have a trouble with
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: it today, I tell you that much. It is a
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: media metric originally created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel urginally
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: created like as a one off joke in her comic
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: collection dis to Watch Out four, but has since been
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: adapted to a more generalized media metric. And our version
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: of it requires that two characters of a marginalized gender
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: with names speak to each other about something other than
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: a man for more than two lines of dialogue. And
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: in spite of Dennis Quaid's larger presence in this movie
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: than you'd think, this movie does pass the Bechdel test.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: And if that's why you're listening to this show, get
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: a life.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we've got bigger fish to fry today real in
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: every episode. Yes, today is our episode on Postcards from
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: the Edge nineteen ninety and our returning guest is a
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: drag artist known for RuPaul's Drag Race UK season one.
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: She's a host of the podcast Camp Classics, and you
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: remember her from our episodes on Jawbreaker, Show Girls, Bram
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: Stoker's Dracula, The Raine.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: It's Crystal.
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, is this my fourth appearance?
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: One appearance away from a jacket, Oh my god.
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: And truly what a bunch of different camp flavored movies. Oh,
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: I'm so glad to be back. Thank you. Yeah. Absolutely,
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: wigs exactly.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, the line there's blood on the wig. Really,
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: it's so evocative.
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: Could have easily been in Bramstoker's Dracula. Actually so true.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: Welcome back, Thank you so much for bringing us. Thank
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: you this wonderful movie.
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: Oh, I'm so excited to talk about it. I've had
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: such a nice time this week, like just reimmersing myself
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: in this world. It's it's delicious.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: Tell us all about your history, your relationship with the film,
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: maybe the book, if you've read it, tell us everything.
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: I'm a drag queen. I haven't read the book. And
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: to be honest with you, this movie was kind of
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: new to me. I think I discovered it only a
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: year ago, and I was in Mexico and I had
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: just taken some over the counter cold medication that really
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: spun me out, and I was laying on my hotel bed,
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: like literally gripping the bed, and I was like, I need,
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: I need to find something to do, and this movie
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: just got suggested to me on like whatever, some streaming
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: service and I watched it. It was obviously perfect viewing
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: for the state I was in, but yeah, I had
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: never even heard of it before before or that moment.
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: And then we covered it on my podcast a couple
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: months later, and I rewatched it and I was like, oh, yeah, no,
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: it's wasn't just the painkillers. It wasn't just the cold medicine.
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: It was good, But yeah, I've got it. It's one
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: of those movies that, like, I feel like I should
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: have already been obsessed with, but it somehow passed me by.
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: And I don't know if that's the same for for
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: you guys, but like it feels a little forgotten somehow,
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: despite being like a commercial success, a critical success.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: A solid cast.
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, it just feels a bit overlooked.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: I agree.
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: So, yeah, glad to be here singing its praises.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Jamie, what about you? I am the opposite. I am
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: a I'm a loser. So I have read the book,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: but I also hadn't seen the movie. We've been talking
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: about Carrie Fisher quite a bit. Recently. We just covered
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: Empire Strikes Back. We covered her Legends episode on Daily Psych.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: I'm always thinking about Carrie Fisher, So it's weird that
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: I hadn't seen this movie before, But either way, she's
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: one of my favorite writers. I love. I've read all
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: of her books and if you haven't, I know I
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: said this on the show recently, but if you haven't
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: given yourself the gift of a Carrie Fisher audio book,
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: she reads them all and it is just like the
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: best experience you could possibly have. And this is a
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: really good book too, And she also reads the audiobook
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: to the book. She you know, she's the greatest. I
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: just like admire her so much. I think her work
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: is so timeless, and so it is I agree Crystal,
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: like bizarre that this movie isn't talked about more because
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: it is. I mean, it's definitely a product of its time,
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: but in a way that I really like. Something that
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: I appreciate about Carrie Fisher's writing more and more the
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: more I live is how open, not only open she
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: is about mental health and addiction issues, but how like
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: in the way that does is not going to work
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: for everyone, but really worked for me. How like self
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: deprecating she is about it, and how matter of fact
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: she is. I feel like stories of addiction are so
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: often tragedy porn, and that's just not how she writes
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: about addiction, even though you know it was a huge
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: specter in her life. And also now knowing I haven't
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: finished it yet, but that Mike Nichols also had extensive
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: issues with addiction throughout his life, and I feel like
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: he's bringing his sensibility to the same topic. And I
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: just I don't know. This movie was like my mom's
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: visiting right now, so right place, right time. The themes
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: were really theming for me this week, and I'm like
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: so happy to have this movie in my life. I
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: also watched it on I think two be so now.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: It's the kind of movie where you're like, I love
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: how Postcards in the Edge has this same sports gambling
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: commercial in it forty five times. It's my favorite.
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's how it's remembered. Yes, I too have a mother,
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: and I too perhaps have a complicated relationship with her. Yeah.
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: I had never seen this movie either. I've notne about
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: it for a while, and I knew that Carrie Fisher
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: was involved in some way, but I thought it was
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: because she was the star of the movie, not the
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: semi autobiographical subject of the movie. Slash writer and I
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: knew that she was a writer, but I didn't know
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: to what extent. I mostly knew her as a script doctor.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: I didn't realize she had such an extensive library of novels.
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: And I knew about Wishful Drinking, and I recently watched
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: her solo show of it, which I enjoyed very very much.
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm learning so much about Carrie Fisher recently,
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: and the more I learned, the more I love her.
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: Rip to a legend.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: She's so amazing. I also yeah that I did not know.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: I knew Meryl Streep, Charlie McLean, but truly, it's like
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: almost everyone in this movie is so famous, even like yeah,
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: and it builds in this fun way where you're like,
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: whoa CCX Pounder is in this That's so fun. I
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: love her. Gene Hackman is yelling, Anette Benning is sluting
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: out all of her a late stage, all of our.
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: All that flat.
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: Rob Ryaner is there.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: Rob Ryer just incredible. Richard Dreyfuss, who I didn't recognize,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: and my mom was like, upset, I don't know, and
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: then I had her, and then I had to tell
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: her Dennis Quaid was a Republican. We had to have
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: the talk about Dennis Quayne. You know what an adventure.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: I'm so excited to talk more about it. So let's
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: take a quick break and then we'll come back for
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: the recap.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: And we're back. Also music by Carly Simon. It should
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: be so.
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: I didn't realize that.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, this movie should be considered a classic.
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's got literally everything going for it, not the
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: least salacious celebrity gossip, which normally, you know, as a
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: culture we're really into.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: It's really I just wanted to shout out because I
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: know I talked about it, I think on the Zegist
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: episode as well. But Carrie Fisher wrote not many other
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: movies that sounded like there was like a lot of
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: development hell issues. But yes, to continue what you were saying, Caitlin,
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: she script doctored famously sister act Anastasia the Wedding Singer.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: She also wrote this movie that's also on Toby that
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: I watched for fun recently that Shirley McClain is also in,
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: called These Old Broads And if you want to watch
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: a very disjointed movie that has a lot of old
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Hollywood gossip, heavily alluded to it. You gotta watch these
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: old broads with all the two B commercials. It's Shirley McLain,
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: Debbie Reynolds, Joan Collins, and Elizabeth Taylor. H And if
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: you know, you know, if you don't, you're gonna be
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: so confused by these old broads.
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember you mentioning that, And it is also
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: mentioned in the Be Kind Rewind.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how I learned about it.
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: Video essay about Carrie Fisher as a writer. I highly
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: recommend watching that video. But she mentions how that movie
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: kind of paves the way for like older women buddy comedies,
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: which I associate with James.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Bonda, Lily Tomlin, all those all those divas. It's a
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: good genre. We got to keep that genre alive.
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: Shout out eighty for Brady. Yeah.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the movies. The movies do not have to be good.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: They just need to be made. They just need to
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: be there.
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we just need to see Shirley mclin doing things exciting.
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: It doesn't really doesn't matter what.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: It does not matter what.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: She's so important. I'd love for her.
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: All right, here's the recap for both Cards from the Edge.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: But first, a quick content warning for things like drug use, addiction, rape,
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: and sexual assault. We'll talk about it. But the movie
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: opens on Meryl Streep traveling to the US from an
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: unspecified Latin American country, but she's pulled aside at passport control.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: There's violence, there's conflict there, but then she messes up
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: her line because we're on a movie set and she's
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: an actor named Suzanne Veil.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: It is so fun seeing Meryl Streep look to camera.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: It's so jarring.
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: I love it so good.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: You're like, wait, you never do that, You famously never
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: do that. I Oh god, I having just seen The
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Devil Wars Prota two, which I thought was aggressively mid
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: but I did see it. I saw it in a
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: new movie format that I also wouldn't recommend, but it
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: maybe laugh a few times. It's called screenex I don't
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: know they have one in Burbank now where it's basically
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: like there's three screens, but there's been no movie filmed
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: for this format, so it's just you're watching The Devil
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: War's Prota.
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: Two but like three times.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: No, it's just really stretched out on the side. And
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: there was, oh, the best joke in the Devil Wars
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Prota two can only be seen in the screenex because
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: there is one scene where Meryl Streep is sitting to
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: the side and she's so stretched. Don't anyways, it's not
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: very good. But that's okay. It doesn't need to be good,
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: it just has to be made.
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: Wow the theme of the episode.
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: But I love this trope of like you're watching a
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: scene and then the camera pulls back and you're like, oh,
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: it was just all a set. It's so fun.
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: I love a reveal like that.
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: Uh huh. It reminds me of who framed Roger Rabbit.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: Yes, that is exactly how that movie opens. You don't
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: know it's a movie. Then a character messes up, does
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: a little blooper, and you're like, wait a minute, I've
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: been watching a movie within a movie this whole time.
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: It's a great gimmick.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: It makes you think it always works.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: So, yes, we realize that she is Susanne Vail, an
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: actor and the director of the movie she's starring in. Lowell,
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: played by Gene Hackman, pulls her aside and tells her
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: not to fuck up his movie because he and everyone
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: else knows that she is using a lot of drugs
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: on set. We cut to Suzanne passed out in bed
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: with a guy, presumably a lover, played by Dennis Quaid.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Dennis Quaid with slightly frosted tips, Dennis Quaid with highlights.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he puts son in in his hair.
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: And my toxic trade is I think Dennis Quaid looks
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: really hot in this movie.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Fortunately does he does? He looks. I still like a
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: very formative crush for me. Was Dennis Quaiden parent trap?
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Like sure, Peak Quaid, It's just it's it's a shame.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: It's a shame.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but we did have to kill him.
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: Yes did.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: Anyway, he realizes that Suzanne is unresponsive. He's trying to
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: wake her up. She's apparently overdosed on pills, so he
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: rushes her to the er, acts like he doesn't know her,
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: and then speeds.
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: Away, also very looney tunes, honestly like yes.
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: Peels out. So doctor Richard Dreyfus pumps Susanne's stomach and
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: saves her life. She wakes up and in the hospital
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: room with her is C. C. H. Pounder. She's the
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: director of the rehab unit at this hospital.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: I kept waiting for her to come back. I'm bummed
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: that she doesn't come back. She's such a fun The
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: like exchange between her and Meryl Streep about you only
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: speak and bumper stickers is so funny.
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So she is there to admit Suzanne to rehab
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: and mentions that if they hadn't pumped her stomach, she
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: would have died, which is a bit of a wake
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: up call to Suzanne.
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: Meryl is just so good in this scene. It's I mean,
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: I don't know if anyone's ever said it before, but
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: what an actress can You can really see her like
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: building her defensive nos and like using humor to get
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: out of this situation that is obviously incredibly uncomfortable for her.
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: It's just it's so incredible how much she can tell
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: you about her character in this scene where she's waking
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: up in a hospital that it's ah, I love it,
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: I love it.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: It's I love dialogue movies, but like just the when
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: this movie and Mike Nichols is so good at dialogue
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: movies when they just give Merrill and Shirley McLain room
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: to act capital a. It's so good I could keep
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: watching it for another forty five minutes.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: Yes, Yeah, So a short time later, Suzanne's mother Doris,
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: played by Shirley McLain comes to the hospital and we
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: learn that she is also a movie star. She is
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: a queer icon She's a legend in her craft.
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: Isn't there something like CEC Pounder says something like, we
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: just need to get to the bottom of why you
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: take all these drugs? And then Shirley McLean's.
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: Like, hello, great writing, so good, and so Doris and
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: Suzanne's relationship is perhaps a bit complicated.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: It's a bit tense, also iconic, barely disguising Debbie Reynold's name,
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: Doris sure, sure, by the hell not.
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: Doris is perhaps a bit overbearing and micromanagy as a parent,
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: and Suzanne is a bit resentful toward her.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Maybe and just like a category five narcissist, like hmm,
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: everything is about her.
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah. We will also learn that Doris perhaps has addiction
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: issues of her own, as we will often see her
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: drinking alcohol, something that she denies. Some more time passes
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: and Suzanne feels ready to go back to work, but
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: there's an she with insurance. The production of the movie
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: she was cast in won't insure her because of her
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: drug use unless she stays with a responsible party who
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: can look after her such as her mother.
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: Well, she can't stay with her father. She's worse.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: He's worse, is yeah?
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Not bad?
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: Dear?
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: And who could that be a reference to? We'll never know.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: We'll never know, certainly not Eddie Fisher.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: No, I I like that. I wish that this didn't
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: get cut. Apparently there were scenes filmed with Jerry Orbach
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: playing her father. Whoa and awesome to see it. Jerry
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Orbach doing Eddie Fisher would have rocked.
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: Wow. Lumier himself.
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this scene with the agent that is just so great.
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: The way they're, the way they speak over each other,
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: and like meryll Is finishing Shirley McLain's lines because she's
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: heard all of these anecdotes a million times before. Oh,
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: it's just it's perfect writing.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: It's great. So it's suggested that Suzanne's stay with her mother.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: She is very reluctant to do this, but she eventually
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: agrees and moves in with Doris. Suzanne returns to work
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: and on the movie set of this Like what seems
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: like a pretty bad movie and a low budget one,
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: she meets a producer played by Rob Reiner, who tells
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: her that she will have to do routine drug tests
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: or else again, the insurance won't cover her, and Suzanne
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: finds this humiliating. Then Doris throws Suzanne a welcome back
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: from rehab party.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: You know that classical party is yep, but the opportunity
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: is she finds for attention is really a second to none.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: Totally, because this is the scene where Doris is encouraging
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: Suzanne to sing for the guests, and Suzanne doesn't want to,
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: but she reluctantly does, and then people are like, well, Doris,
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: what if you sing too, and She's like, no, I
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: couldn't then burst into song d flat.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: I think Izzy says in her video like it's the
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Christien Wig character from a sene.
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, don't make me sick, don't make me sing. It's
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: so so good.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: And then she does an amazing rendition of I'm Still here?
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Who is? I think the CHIRLEYE. McLain is incredible in
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: this part, but when I hear I'm Still here, I'm like, Wow.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: The only person who I would have wanted more in
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: this part is Elaine Stritch. Elayne Stritch plays a bitch
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: mother unlike anyone on the face of the planet, as
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: evidenced in thirty rock. But right, Shirley McClain, does she
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: have the range? I don't know, and I don't care.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: I felt that she did.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: I love Elayne Stretch. She Hers and Carrie Fisher's one
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: woman shows were ones that I was both like obsessed
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: with high school in college.
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: I'll have to check it out.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: Oh it's so good.
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: But yeah, this whole scene, the set piece is just
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: again just like perfect writing. The songs that they each sing.
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: It's kind of so annoyingly on the nose, but it
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: still works. Like Meryl's singing you don't know me to
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: her mother, and then her mother just completely upstaging her,
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: and like you watch Meryll perform and you're.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: Like, oh, okay, she's talented.
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah she did a good job. And then yeah, Sirley
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: McLean's just like hold my cocktail, dear, let me show
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: you how she flashes the panty. Yeah, it's so good.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: I love Meryl. I don't understand why we're like she
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: should be singing, But I love Mama Mia of course. Nonetheless, Nonetheless,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: I like Meryl. I hope you had fun on your vacation, Degrease.
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: I think Meryl is such a good actress that she
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: can convince you she's a good singer.
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: Yes, I mean it works on me because I'm like,
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: is she not a good singer? I thought she won?
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. I don't know what it is, but
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: like Charlie McClain, I think, probably a comparable singer. But
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: like Buries her, it's just incredible.
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: I mean, well, that's because she's the greatest showman.
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah she is.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: She is.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So cut to Suzanne back on the set of
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: the movie. She's getting various notes about her performance, including
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: from a producer played by Oliver Platt. Then she hears
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: the director talking to wardrobe about her body and they're
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: talking about how she eats too much and she's gaining
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: weight and just you know, classic body shaming stuff. Then
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: she runs into the Dennis Quaid guy again, this is Jack.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: She doesn't realize exactly who he is at first, and
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: then he reminds her that it was him who took
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: her to.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: The hospital and does I pretty like, I think if
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: you were to have to show in two minutes or
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: less what is love bombing and what can it look like,
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: it would be this scene that is about to come
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: up with them.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, we will talk all about their relationship because
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: it is troublesome.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he is just, uh, you know how some people
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: just have a way of laser focusing you at your lowest.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: He's that person.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: Yes, So what happens is they reconnect, they kiss a bit,
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: and then they arrange a date. He picks her up,
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: but Doris answers the door and she's very chummy with him,
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: and Susan has to pull her mother aside to be like,
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: stop overshadowing me, and stop making everyone like you more
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: than they'd like me and stuff like that.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: And then on their date at Jack's fancy Malibu house.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: I think he's a movie producer, she tells him that
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: she's in recovery. She can't do casual li fair, she's
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: not really ready for romance.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: And he's like, great, I've been looking for someone exactly
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: as vulnerable as you. This is awesome news.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and he professes his love for her, and she's like,
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: we barely know each other and he's like, no, no, no,
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: I've seen you in movies and I fell in love
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: with you on screen.
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: Is this where we get the line she was in
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: a movie called A Night Full of Shoes.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, somewhere around here, Oh Carrie Fisher jokes are
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: so specific.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: I loved you in A Night full of Shoes.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: Incredible. She's in another movie, like fake movie called I
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: think public Domain, which does sound like it would be
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: the title of a movie. Yes, but A Night full
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: of Shoes is so good.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: I love I love it even when I mean this
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: is very Carrie Fisher. But like, even when she's writing
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: her insert character, she still writes her to be kind
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: of a loser, like compared to her mother, which you know, Susan,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: it doesn't seem like Suzanne Vale had the Princess Leah
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: moment and the way that Carrie Fisher dead, it seems
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: like she's been stuck on TV. I think that the
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: book gets more into like how stuck in TV? She
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: was sure anyway, Jack is love bombing her, and because
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: she's so vulnerable it works quote unquote. She seems flattered
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: and they sleep together. Suzanne returns home late that night
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: and Doris has been worried sick about her because she
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: didn't call and didn't show up, and Doris has been
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: drinking again, as she often does. Suzanne suggests that maybe
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: her mother has issues with addiction as well. But again
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Doris refused to admit anything of the sort.
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: She drinks like an Irish person, yes, she says.
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: A bit later, back on the movie set, Suzanne finds
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: out that another woman in the cast, Evelyn played by
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: Annette Benning, also knows Jack, so Suzanne goes to talk
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: to her, and it turns out that Evelyn slept with
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: Jack recently, and in fact, on the same day that
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: Suzanne went to his house, and apparently he has a
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: reputation for seeing many women at once.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever seen a net Benning in
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: a role like this before. I feel like I'm so
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: used to seeing her as like wife.
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: With Bob, but like I'm she's giving full.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: It's really it took me a second to realize it
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: was her.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: She.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, she's so amazing that I was like, wow,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: I've just never seen her in the like it's Hollywood dark,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: like roll yeah.
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: Like the idea that she's stealing a scene from Meryl
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: Streep is like, I know, and this is her first movie.
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: Oh really, Oh my god, yeah yeah, yeah, she's so
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: so good. The way she just puts that twizzle stick
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: in her mouth as she's like talking about how she
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: loves to fuck. It's like, no notes, no notes in
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: that betting.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: He's like, no big deal, it's the nineties, ye, Shara condoms.
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, she's in it for the Dolphin Rush.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: The Dolphin.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: I did not even realize that was a net Benning
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: until I had already watched the movie and then was
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: like scouring IMDb and I was like, wait a minute,
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: what do you mean Anette Benning's in this movie?
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Who?
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: And then I realized it was her. She racks anyway,
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: So now Suzanne knows that Jack is sleeping with multiple people,
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: so she confronts him about it, and he acts like
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: a total dick. He admits to sexually assaulting her the
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: night she was passed out in his bed, and again,
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: we'll talk about this, yeah, but they break up. The
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: next day, Doris tells Suzanne that her business manager has disappeared,
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: along with all of his client's money. So Suzanne's money
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: is gone, and then she and Doris start talking about
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: Suzanne's career, her history with addiction, and it turns into
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: an argument. They're talking about blame, jealousy, resentment, Doris's parenting,
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: Doris's drinking, and how her skirt twirled up at Suzanne's
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: seventeenth birthday party and she wasn't wearing any underwear and
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: it's this iconic scene when they're on the stairs. Anyway,
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: Suzanne storms out of the house. She takes some pills
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: but then makes herself throw up. She shows up at
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: an adr slash like looping session with that director Lowell
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: for the movie she was doing at the beginning, and
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: then she and Lowell have a heart to heart where
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: he gives her advice about breaking this cycle of generational trauma.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: And then on Suzanne's way back home, she sees a
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: car accident and it turns out that her mother had
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: been drinking and driving and smashed into a tree and
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: she was arrested and then taken to the hospital with
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: a minor head injury. So Suzanne goes to the hospital.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: Her grandmother is there, who we met previously at the
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: party scene, and she's freaking out. She's saying, I can't
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: believe I have a daughter and a granddaughter who are
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: both addicts and losers. So Suzanne is like, fuck you, Grandma,
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: get out of here. She kicks her out of the room,
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: and then Susanna and Doris start to reconcile and she
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: helps her mom do her makeup. It's a really sweet,
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: tender scene. Then Suzanne bumps into doctor Richard Dreyfus. He
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: had sent her flowers after he pumped her stomach, and
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: then he asks her on a date and she's like,
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: I'll go out with you, but I'm not ready to date.
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: And then he's like, no, worries, I'll wait. And then
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: we cut to Suzanne on the set of another movie
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: or music video, I'm not totally sure, but it's directed
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: by Lowell and she performs a song Heartbreak Hotel, and
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: her mom and some friends are on set to support
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: her the end.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: And fun fact that song at the end was written
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: by shel Silverstein, famous children's poet.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: Yes, oh, I thought that was Is that not an
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: Elvis song Heartbreak Hotel? Is that a different song?
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: Elvis has a song called Heartbreak Hotel, but it is
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: a different one different.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, so shout out Shell Silverstein.
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: And that song was OSCAR nominated as well as was
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: Merrill in this movie.
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, incredible.
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: Do you know how many Oscar nominations Merril had by
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: this point in nineteen ninety.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: Oh god seven? This was her ninth, ninth nine, and
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: she was like, what forty or something ridiculous?
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: Ridiculous goodness, Well, let's take a quick break and really
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: ponder that.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: Let that sink in.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and we're back. Gosh, Okay, where do we start?
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: I guess maybe we can just talk about like the
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: diva worship of it all a bit. I mean, that's
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: definitely the appeal a lot of the appeal of this movie.
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: For me, it's the it's the seeing the Hollywood glamour,
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: seeing behind the scenes, seeing the struggles that make up
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: these gorgeous, fabulous creatures that we all worship, and it's
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: it just really scratches an itch, and even more so
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: because you know it's kind of true and kind of
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: not and it's presented in this humorous package. It gives
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: you permission to revel in it, which clearly Carrie Fisher
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: was doing when she was writing this, like she was
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: having so much fun kind of making fun of her
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: of the ridiculousness of also the trauma of her life.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: I don't know. I just think it's so it's so
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: fun to watch Shirley McLane just chew up the scenery
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: as this big character who yes, not a very good mother,
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: but like brings she brings so much heart and soul
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: into it, and like, you know, you can't escape the
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: comparison to something like Mommy Dearist, which is kind of
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: the same story but is so much right, yeah, so
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: much harder to watch and so much more tragic. It's
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: it can be fun to watch that movie in a
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: camp way because it's also over the top, but like
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: the subject matter is dark as fuck. Yeah, whereas this movie,
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: you know, everybody loves each other. They're just messed up people,
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: and that that dynamic between them, I think is so special. Like,
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: you know, we already talked about it a little bit,
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: but that scene where they are both doing their show
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: tunes and you can see if it was Mommy DearS,
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: you know, the daughter character would just be watching her
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: mom perform and she'd fucking hate her and it would
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: be like they were at war with each other. But
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: in this movie, like you watch Meryl go through this
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: entire journey of like I'm proud of my mother. She's
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: such an amazing star, and you can see her be
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: like a little girl who's like in awe of her
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: incredibly talented mother, and then she can then she's like,
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: oh that's making me shrink. Oh that's hard for me.
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: And it's like all of these this mix of emotions,
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: which is which just feels so real, and I think
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: I've just talked to my way around a couple of topics.
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: But it's yeah, I love I love this movie for
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: all of that.
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, No, the admiration they have for each other, but
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: also the resentment for different reasons. Because Susanne resents her
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: mother or blames her for getting her addicted to drugs.
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: She's like, you fed me sleeping pills when I was
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: nine years old, resents her for always wanting to be
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: the center of attention, you know, things like that. And
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: then Doris seems to be harboring some resentment about the
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: fact that she's an aging actor who's a woman in
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: Hollywood and feels like her time has passed and her
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: daughter's up and coming, and you know, just all these things.
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: But then again, they admire each other, they think each
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: other is talented. It's just it does feel like such
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: an authentic portrayal of a mother daughter relationship. Obviously not
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: every mother daughter relationship, but sure there were aspects of
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: this that felt very familiar.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I really appreciate that, and I know that, like again,
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: everyone's my edge is going to vary with a story
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: like this because it's impossible not to project yourself onto
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: the characters. But like there's so many things that I
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: think Carrie Fisher is so uniquely good at. She is
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: very aware of like how directly this is going to
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: be compared to her life, even though she has remained
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: pretty firm that like this pulls from her life, but
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: is not a biography, you know, a biographical film, which
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: is part of why and this does always crack me up.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: Debbie Reynolds was like, I'll do it. I'll play the part,
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: and which to me is like I don't know. The
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: better of how you look at it is like okay,
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: so it can't be that real. If Debbie Reynolds is
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: like I would love to do it, I could do it,
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: and Mike Nichols was gently like.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: No, yeah, like you're not right for the part, which
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: it's not quite you, it's something else, it's someone else.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it would be so distracting from I mean,
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: it's so so much of the stories potentially in that
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: interaction alone of like you know, this is Carrie's story.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: Debeat but anyways, but the fact that you know everyone,
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: it seems like everyone involved in this production had ties
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: to this family and a lot of love for the family,
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: regardless of how much of the family actually appears on screen. Obviously,
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Carrie Fisher's she's writing based on these dynamics. Potentially, Shirley
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: Maclain was a really close friend of Debbie Reynolds. Mike
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: Nichols and Carrie Fisher were close. Mike Nichols also directed
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: Elizabeth Taylor. Like there's just all of these like connections
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: that but through all of that, like it would be
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: so easy for Carrie Fisher's writing to be like navel
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: gazy bullshit, but she's so clear on processing feelings around privilege,
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Like she does not let Suzanne get away with the
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: amount of privilege that she absolutely does have. We see
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: other people react to that privilege, and we see Suzanne
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: internalize and develop a deep shame around like understanding she
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: has privileged but still struggling. And it's just like it's
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: such a difficult needle to thread, I would imagine, especially
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: if that is like very similar to your background that
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: she's so good at. It's like amazing to watch in
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: the fact that she you know, with Shirley McClain's character,
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: Doris is able to portray that, you know, this is
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: a character who also clearly struggles with addiction, but the
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: struggles we don't even really know, like she's just sort
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: of refusing to confront it. And seeing Suzanne you sort
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: of have to contend with, like, is this someone I
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: can have in my life if this is the case?
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: Because in the end and it is like, you know,
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: maybe dismissive of an addiction, but I was laughing whatever
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: at the end where Shirley McLain is like giving the
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: interview to the press and you're like, what are you
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: gonna do next? And she's like, I'm gonna go back
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: to drinking. Thank you, thank you so much, and everyone's
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: like got it, got it, got it. But I just
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: I really love that whatever. I think it's safe to
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: say that Doris has narcissistic qualities and that Suzanne is
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: such a like, I think well written child of a narcissist,
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: where she is hyper aware of what her mother is
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: like and it clearly informs her own behavior and how
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: she talks to and perceives other people, and that she
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: also has a lot of empathy for her mom in
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: many moments where you would have to have a lot
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: of empathy to keep this woman in your life, first
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: of all, Like, but that she does seem to understand.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: And I feel like we're given information in like broad
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: the broad characters, but like by seeing the grandparents and
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: seeing because that that also is very similar to Debbie
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: Reynolds's life where she grew up, you know, with absolutely
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: nothing and and then became this big star and is
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: always there's always going to be like tension and maybe
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: overdoing the opulence to escape your past quote unquote, but
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: that I don't know that Suzanne like understands this is
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: how my mother is. If I want her in my life,
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: I kind of have to accept it and create boundaries.
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I have to imagine I wish I had
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: paid closer attention to the scenes with Suzanne's grandmother because
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: I think she's only in two scenes. Yeah, but it
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: seems clear to me at least that Suzanne recognizes the
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: ways in which her grandmother affected her mother's life. Right,
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: And you know, again the cycle of dysfunction type parenting dysfunction.
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: You know, perhaps Doris got that from her mother and
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: is passing it down to Susanne. So it almost made
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: me want the grandmother character to be more prominent, just
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: to kind of drive that home a bit more.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: Two generations of trauma simply was not enough.
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: We need the third more.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I like it, even though the I think
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: definitely the grandparents are like a little cartoonier than the
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: other two generations. But I do think that, like, I
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: don't know, it's in a very carry Fisher way. And
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: I will excuse basically most of the things that people
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: don't like about her writing, but that even though you
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: have this sort of cartoonish presentation of people essentially from
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: the South, from low income background, you still get this
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: thing that like, not a lot of people are good
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: at writing, where it's like this grandmother, while dismissive and
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: unkind to her daughter and granddaughter, is also receiving constant
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: verbal abuse from her husband, who appears to be suffering
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: from mental illness. But it does seem like, I mean,
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I have memories of my grandparents having
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: a dynamic like that, and that when one of their
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: you know, mental capacities began to slip, the cruel behavior
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: that was displayed before escalates and it just you know,
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: she is both unkind to her daughter and granddaughter and
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: is literally being screamed at by her husband to shut
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: up every second of her life, and like, both of
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: these things have to be true, and seeing them both
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: at the same time helps you understand where Doris comes
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: from and therefore where Suzanne comes from. It's so good.
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it does occasionally verge on like quite hollywoody, I
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: guess where it's like everything does get a little bit
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: neatly wrapped up, and it's like you get given the
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: lesson and then she applies it and then everybody has
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: a reconciliation and everyone moves on and drug addiction solved,
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: and you know, there's a little bow on everything. But
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: it is also just really satisfying to watch, and that's
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: like what makes kind of a movie kind of worth watching.
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: We like the resolution, We like all of that, and
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: so yeah, the fact that you've got that Gene Hackman
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: speech where he's like, you know, your mother did it
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: to you, and her mother did her all the way
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: back to eve and at some point you have to
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: say it stops, and then the next scene Susanna puts
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: a stop to it. It's just like very satisfying. Also,
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: she puts stop to it while she's tying a turban
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: around her mother's head, which that looks like it's probably
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: hard to do, and she had to practice that a lot.
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: She has false eyelashes on her mother.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Not that well, to be honest, not that I was
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: like the blush was messy, too much blush. Yeah, but
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: there is also something I mean, it's like again, is
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: it toxic? Yes, But also it is so satisfying seeing
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: these two divas march out of the hospital room after
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: a dui and be like, here we are and we
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: look amazing.
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: You're like, come get me boys.
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: I also got the impression that they had only just
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: begun to reconcile and that their their relationship still needs
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: a lot of repair and yeah, fair therapy perhaps, but
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: that they had begun the journey of addressing their issues
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: with one another. So I think it would have been
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: like really too like sacarine and too Hollywood if they
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: were like, and we fixed everything and now we're the
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: best mother daughter pair you've ever seen. And I didn't
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: get that impression. It was more just like, they still
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: have some problems to work through, but they're in a
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: better place to start to do that now.
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they kind of get to have the fantasy conversation
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: that you wish you could have with your parents, which
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: is like, and now we're both going to explain our
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: central issue with each other and like that will be
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: so great, and like obviously that just never you know,
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: those are the things that kind of never get said.
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: But it is incredibly satisfying to watch these two characters
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: kind of get that moment.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and really see them like struggle too. Like it's
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know, like the fact that Zan is struggling
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: so much in these like early days of sobriety, and
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: in a way that feels like it's really funny but
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: also realistic. And I don't know, I like little patterns
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: I was noticing on my second watcher, like, Okay, both
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: her mother and grandmother have these husbands who are just there.
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: Arguably grandfather is there because maybe he's like experiencing some
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: form of dementia, but I'm I'm gonna headcan and say
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: he was always kind of just there. Sureley Mcleane's husband
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: is truly horizontal for the entire movie.
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: It's so good, barely says a word, barely is aware
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: of what's going on around him, and you.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: See to some extent in that last scene, like Suzanne
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: begin to break that cycle where, of course in the
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: early days of her sobriety, of course, like getting love
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: bombed by a hot guy, it's tempting under any circumstances,
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: but like it makes sense to me why she is,
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: but why both she tries to attempts to set a
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: boundary that he love bombs his way through and that
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: she is in a vulnerable place that makes her receptive
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: to what he's saying even though he very much doesn't
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: mean it and in fact is an abuser to a
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: degree that she eventually learned. But I just I don't know,
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: Like she is both so funny and so specific and
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: also very vulnerable and I can't it's just like I
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: really love it. And then at the end that she's
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: able to draw the boundary of like not a good time,
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: Doctor Dreyfus or whatever.
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean this character experience is basically every humiliation
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: a person can experience in like what the month that
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: she's been out of rehabits, the world is really laying
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: it on thick on her, and it's almost a little
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: bit sex in the city, Like the level of indignities
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: she has to suffer. But it's yeah, very fun to watch.
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: I mean, speaking of some of these characters, as far
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: as Doris's husband, Suzanne's grandfather, Jack, and we'll talk more
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: about the relationship with Jack specifically, but I noticed, especially
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: on my second watch of this movie that basically all
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: the men are despicable in some way, to varying degrees
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: of despicableness. But because I mean, like, I feel like
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: Jack is the extreme where he sexually assaults an unconscious person.
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: But then you've got various producers on the movie set
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: who are just condescending and shitty. There's the director who
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: is body shaming her, and he is talking with a
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: woman Dana Ivy, who I associate with the Adams family.
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: Oh okay, Yeah, they're talking about her body is if
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: it's a piece of meat, and again fat shaming her,
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: which is absurd because look at Meryl Streep in this movie.
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: Then you've got Lowell, who cares more about his movie
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: and his art than the well being of the human
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: beings in his movie. You've got Marty, the business manager
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: who steals Suzanne's money and disappears. Yeah, so, just like
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: every man is horrible and also kind of barely a character.
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: I love that they're just sort of like secondary or
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: tertiary characters, and that the main focus remains on Suzanne
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: and Doris.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I love stories about women. Well that's a whole sentence,
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: but like how they're working their way around men, which
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: is like so much of life working around men and
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: suffering as a result of the actions of men. But
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: this story does not need to be focused on them.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: I really I appreciated. It felt very much like a
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: note we would have on most movies of this genre,
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: being like why didn't she have more friends? Why didn't
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: she have people to talk to you? And I think
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: that this movie does a great job with that, with
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: giving her a character that she becomes friends with in rehab,
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: a character played by Robin Bartlett Aretha Area.
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: I left out of the recap, but she is there.
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, she's sort of a friend character. Like I guess,
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: not much changes if she's not there, But I think
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: it is like crucial that she is there, if that
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: makes sense, because it's just it makes the world feel
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: more real. I automatically like a character a million times
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: more if she has a cool goth friend, you know,
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: like the world feels very even though it's like very elevated,
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: it feels lived in and I really appreciated that, and
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: that she keeps coming back. That's why I wish. I mean,
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: I guess it wouldn't make sense if C. H. Pounder's
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: character came back because why would your rehab doctor be around?
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: But I just wanted to see her again.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, speaking of shitty men, I feel like even Richard Dreyfus,
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: like I think the movie thinks he's kind of a
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: good guy, but I don't. I don't think he comes
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: off very well and in this year.
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe it's not appropriate to ask a patient on
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: a date.
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: I think, not especially one that like its famous and
• 49:43
  Speaker 4: you have a crush on because you've seen in movies
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: in any situation. But it's just weird, it's it's stockersh
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: and it's.
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: Gross, especially the line I'll wait. You're like, no need,
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: no need?
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: Should we talk about Jack? I guess Dennis Quaid, we
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: have to, Yeah, we must. Yeah. I really struggled with
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: this series of beats for a few reasons. But so again,
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: trigger warning here for rape. But this storyline starts with
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: the scene where Jack wakes up. They're in bed together,
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: he realizes that she's unresponsive, so he takes her to
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: the er. He is shitty about that, as we already
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: mentioned in the recap, where he pretends he doesn't know her,
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: refuses to give his name to the hospital, and then
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: like peels out in his jeep wrangler.
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: Bad sign, Bad Sign.
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: They bump into each other later, and it was unclear
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: to me if Jack was kind of like following her
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: trying to bump into her, if it was just coincidental.
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: I didn't have a clear sense of that. But either way,
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: they reconnect and Jack tells her nothing happened that night,
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: we just talked.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And he does that very intentionally to sell her
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: on the idea that he is a not I wouldn't
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: even say respectful, but just that he is not a monster.
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah. He says, like, I have rules, Like you were
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: under the influence, I have rules about that. And it's like, okay, sir,
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: that is the bare minimum.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like, okay, so you don't you don't
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: belong in jail, got it?
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: And then her response feels like a very like of
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: the time, nineteen nineties kind of thing, because she's like, well,
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: why didn't anything happen, was I that unappealing to you?
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: Which of the time, of the time, I'm giving Carrie
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: Fisher every pass. And then the following scene they're in
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: together is when he's love bombing her and she's you know,
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: she's saying like, no, I can't do this, I can't
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: do a casual relationship. I'm not ready for anything like this,
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: and he blows past all of that. He takes advantage
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: of her vulnerable state and professes his love, which is
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: like absolutely false and fake. Then she finds out he
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: is seeing multiple women and has not told her about them,
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: and she says like, I don't even care that you're
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: seeing other people. I care that you lied about that, right,
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: And then he starts making sweeping generalizations about women, basically
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: implying that women don't know what they want. Oh, you
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: say one thing, but you mean another thing, and your
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: feelings can't be trusted and classic shitty stuff like that.
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: And then he reveals that he raped her when she
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: was blacked out. Yeah, and the movie does not exactly
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: acknowledge it for the rape that it is.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: Again of the time, Yeah, I think it's obviously like
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: it makes the character come off worse, but I don't
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: think worse to the degree that we consider it to
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: be worse, like and I don't, I mean it is.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: I would be curious what kind of process a scene
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: like that being written in nineteen ninety goes through. It
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: feels weird to say, like, I appreciate that it's there,
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: but like it I don't. I don't know, like the
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: fact that the movie gives him no way out of
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: being an absolute monster but doesn't quite make it clear
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: the degree to which he is. But then it's like,
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, carry Fisher is generally like really,
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: she's really good on these issues. She famously sent a
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: producer who attempted to assault her friend in a cab
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: a cow's tongue in a Tiffany box like.
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: She's that's incredible, She's amazing.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: So I fully believe that, like Carrie Fisher understands how
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: monstros is. So it is interesting that it is presented
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: with this sort of like I don't know, like I
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: don't even know what the word is.
• 54:09
  Speaker 4: I think it's just that it's a comedy and they're
• 54:12
  Speaker 4: just trying to keep it kind of light, and they
• 54:14
  Speaker 4: kind of make him look as bad as you can
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: in a comedy like this. I agree with you, though,
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: he'd be nice to see him punished a little more,
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: you know, lose his job.
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: Say, yeah something. I also think it's probably again, just
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: a byproduct of the time where for a very long time,
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: I think people's impression of what rape was was like
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: snatching someone off the street, dragging them into an alley.
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: And like, yeah, almost always a stranger, a stranger.
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and that our understanding of all of the circumstances
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: under which an act could be considered assault or rape,
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: we're just not fully recognized or understood at the time. Yeah,
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: So I think it's probably partly that.
• 55:07
  Speaker 4: And this plot point kind of comes up as well
• 55:09
  Speaker 4: in Working Girl, which is another Mike Nichols movie. Yeah,
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: and Melanie Griffiths has passed out, and Harrison Ford it's
• 55:19
  Speaker 4: been so long since since I've seen it.
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: You have we evenen covered it's been so long since
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: we covered it.
• 55:24
  Speaker 4: I think he gets like good guy points for not
• 55:27
  Speaker 4: having sex with her. Well she's unconscious again, bare minimum shit,
• 55:31
  Speaker 4: the bare minimum. Yeah right. Apparently Dennis Quaid in this
• 55:35
  Speaker 4: movie is kind of based on Harrison Ford though, which
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: is kind of fun. Yeah, that kind of tracks yep.
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: And it's so it's so tough because it's like you,
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know, Carrie Fisher has written extensively about or
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: that it was like published shortly before she died, about
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: the affair that she had with Harrison Ford, and it's
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: just I mean, this is just like a I feel like,
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: sometimes difficult conversation to have intergenerationally about like she was
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: a teenager, he was, you know, in his thirties and married,
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: and obviously the power dynamic was wildly different. But and
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: she both sees it that way and doesn't see it
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: that way and didn't want people to think ill of
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: him as a result. That it's just so like it
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: feels like a very difficult, kind of impossible conversation have,
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: especially when it's like, well, you can't tell her she's
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: wrong for how she perceives her own experiences. But I
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: think that a woman of a younger generation would feel
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: quite different.
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: I don't know, sure, Yeah, it's complicated, it is.
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: I kind of just want to shout out, like the
• 56:46
  Speaker 4: beautiful world that is created here, the Hollywood of it,
• 56:50
  Speaker 4: all the set pieces. I think it's just so fun.
• 56:54
  Speaker 4: The first thing I can think of that happens is
• 56:57
  Speaker 4: when we see Suzanne Merrill on the set of her
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: new movie and she's getting tied to a cactus and
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: she's in the desert and she's getting tied to this
• 57:07
  Speaker 4: cactus and then someone just opens a door in the
• 57:10
  Speaker 4: back of the desert and sets. It was so good,
• 57:15
  Speaker 4: and there's moments like that throughout which are just like,
• 57:18
  Speaker 4: I don't know, it's movie, it's movie magic. It's so fun.
• 57:21
  Speaker 4: Like she's talking to Dennis Quaide at one point and
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: then the house that he's standing in front of just
• 57:26
  Speaker 4: drives away. The scene where she's chatting to an atte
• 57:29
  Speaker 4: Benning like they're walking through a lot and they're suddenly
• 57:32
  Speaker 4: in a New York, snowy New York street, and then
• 57:34
  Speaker 4: they're back at the food truck and there's Freddy Krueger
• 57:36
  Speaker 4: in the line behind them. For the I didn't even
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: notice that. Yeah, for Craft Services, it's the bit where
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: she's hanging on the window but it's actually horizontal. Like
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: it's really really great, and it's just these fun little
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: visual gags that like they're just so smart and yeah,
• 57:55
  Speaker 4: it's great. It's great little storytelling, and it constantly kind
• 57:58
  Speaker 4: of highlights the absurdity of this world that she's in,
• 58:01
  Speaker 4: this industry, that she's in, the fact that she has
• 58:04
  Speaker 4: this confrontation with Dennis Quid dressed as a cop.
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: Right the complete with lengths in her like a pop gun.
• 58:13
  Speaker 4: Which we've learned since don't don't, don't do it's very
• 58:16
  Speaker 4: dangerous unless it's Dennis Quaid.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: Maybe take your chances. Yeah, this was like a slightly
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: less like prominent theme, but one that I appreciated and
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: one that definitely comes up throughout Carrie Fisher's life is
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: how like the entertainment industry deals quote unquote deals with
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: and punishes people with addiction issues, where I think like
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: making the point that literally on a production actors are
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: insured like they are not people, which is to I mean,
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: I guess, you know, prevent you know, harm potentially to
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: others as well, But but it also is like a
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: fundamentally capitalist decision in a way that is acknowledged throughout
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: the movie in different moments. And also just how you
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: know she's she's punished for. She's not punished for having
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: addiction issues, She's punished for getting caught having addiction issues,
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: which feels very telling, like everyone is an open secret
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: on this set that she's struggling with addiction and is
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: doing drugs in her trailer, and I think her dealer
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: is her body double, which is kind of funny. But
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: it's only when she is publicly humiliated and almost dies
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: that the consequence comes and that her life is like
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: sort of irreversibly changed. And that is that's like not
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: limited to entertainment, but I think is like really smartly
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: said and how she's treated and spoken to by mostly
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: men who are directing or in charge of her of
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: like she's given a hand basically, which I don't know,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: like you feel whatever way you want about it. He
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: seems like a decent guy. But the idea that like
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: I just wonder, at what point is it like she's
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: they need her to work, Like a lot of these
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: like structures that are put in place seem like so
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: that she can continue to work and create stuff to
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: be consumed. And Suzanne does say repeatedly like she wants
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: to be at work, she wants to be distracted, she
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: wants to be doing things. But it's just I don't know,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: I think it does a good job without like bonking
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: you over the head of about it. What a system
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: that she's trapped in, and it makes sense that Suzanne
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: wouldn't be super pushed back about it because it's all
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: she knows. It's what she grew up around, is her
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: mother being a functional addict working in entertainment. So it
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: just like it. I don't know, I appreciated that.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's very good at handling the idea that she's
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 4: got a lot of power but also kind of none.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: But also still treated horror on set and exploited for
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: her labor. I think it's Doris who points out at
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: some point how badly actors are treated and how actresses
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: have it even worse. And then she tells a story
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: about how she had a phone meeting. I think it
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: was a phone meeting with an executive.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: It was a what I think it was. I think
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 4: it was in person.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: Well she says that he was on the toilet the
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: whole time.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, because that's a a that was
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: a Louis v. Meher thing, right, Yeah, yeah, I feel
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: like that would have been in person.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: So she just in the bathroom with him, I don't
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, either way, it's it's horrible. Yeah,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: but yeah, you see the ways in which Suzanne is mistreated,
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: be rated, humiliated on set, and yeah, I feel like
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: the general public has this idea that, oh, if you're
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: in movies, people are laying out the red carpet for you.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: They you you're treated like royalty, And maybe some actors are,
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: depending on the amount of like box office draw they have,
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: but even then, like, there are so many people on
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: a set with more power than an actor that often
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: abused that power, and we've seen, we've heard so many
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: stories of that.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: But I mean, I also crystill. You mentioned this earlier
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: and I was thinking about it as well, But I'm
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: so curious what you both think because we just covered
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: Mommy Dearist on the podcast and the louis Villemare overt
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: reference in There's I mean, there's so many similarities in
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: these movies, but obviously their approach couldn't be more different.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: I think at least part of that is because you know,
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: Carrie Fisher has explicitly said and so we have to
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: respect that she said this is not her one to
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: one experience, but that she Carrie Fisher has narrative control
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: to some extent over the story. Where As we talked
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: about in the Mommy Dearis episode, which you can just
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: go listen to it's with be kind rewind but deals
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: with a very similar in description character is like a
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: famous actress such as let's say not Debbie Reynolds or
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: overtly Joan Crawford, down to the example of Louis B.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: Mayer being abusive towards them when they were young actors
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: and how they parent daughters specifically, like it's wild how
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: similar it is, but that this story I think does
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: a lot better of a job of contextualizing how that
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: character got to the place because and maybe to the
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: point where I could definitely see the argument that Doris's
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: abusive behavior is excused more than some people would like,
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, her admitting that she did give her child
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: sleeping pills to go to sleep. Do I believe that
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: Doris believes this was okay because it was over the counter, Sure,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: But I don't know. It's these movies came out, like
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: I think, about ten years apart, and like I had
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: to have my attention drawn to how similar the premises
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: are because it's treated so differently where I.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: Mean, tone is so vastly different between the two movies.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: And there's no villain in Postcards from the Edge if
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: anything like a villain would be like a cycle or
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: a system, it wouldn't be one specific person, where obviously
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: Mammy dearis Joan Crawford is the devil incarnate.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's partially just that Mommy Dearus is
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 4: kind of a much worse film in many ways. It's like,
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 4: you know, nothing is particularly well written. I guess by
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 4: the end of the movie in Mommy Dearris, they are
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 4: trying to humanize her a bit, but it's just you've
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 4: had such incredible, over the top camp by that point
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 4: that it's like you kind of can't go there with
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 4: that movie anymore, because you know, you've seen such extremes
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 4: by that point, you've seen too much. Yeah, exactly. Whereas
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 4: whereas in Postcards, you know, there's always nuance with these characters,
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 4: and there's always push and pull and love and resentment,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 4: and yeah, it's just it's not a screaming, hysterical portrayal
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 4: of anything. It's nuanced and funny and feels real.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: Especially when you think about how Carrie Fisher and her
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: mother did very much want to, you know, make their
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: relationship work, and what a deep love they shared, even
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: though oh god, if no one has recently watched the
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: Bright Lights documentary with the two of them sort of
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: Beverly Hills, Great Gardening. It's like filmed towards the end
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: of both of their lives. It came out in twenty sixteen,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: but it's so good. It's yeah, it's Debbie Reynolds and
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: Carrie Fisher. They were like neighbors until the time of
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: their death, and it's just them loving each other and
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: being very dysfunctional.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 4: All right, they died. They died one day apart, right, It's.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: It makes me cry thinking about it, but yeah, I
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: mean and also the just to close that Mammy Deiras loop,
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: because I know we talked about this in the episode
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: that Christina Crawford, who is you know, everyone involved in
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: Mommy Darras is a polarizing figure in their own right,
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: but that Christina Crawford kind of disowned that movie when
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: it first came out because she had no authorial control
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: in how her mother was presented in this big budget movie.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: Where I think that's like kind of Carrie Fisher's ultimate
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: strength in her you know, both her position, but also
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: like without her ability as a writer, this same premise,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: we know could have been taken to a pretty horrible extreme,
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: but I don't know as a testament to her.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, and she is a big proponent of
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: the concept of tragedy plus time equals comedy and her
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 3: comedic approach to so much of her writing, and yeah,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 3: her just sort of like self deprecating approach to her work.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: And we already talked about this a little bit, but
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: I just really appreciate the ability to take a generally
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: serious topic and apply a comedic slant or comedic perspective
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: to it in a way that I think is still
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 3: tasteful and not you know, like making light of something
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: that should be taken seriously, but rather finding humor in
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 3: a situation, or maybe even coping with something using humor,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 3: because as we said earlier, so much media about addiction,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 3: for example, is very tonally serious. If not try magity porn.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: And of course I understand approaching a serious topic with
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 3: a serious tone, but there's also room for stories about
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: something serious told with a more comedic tone, and that's
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 3: how I approach writing that type of thing. And again,
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 3: Carrie Fisher's ability to do that with nuance and grace
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 3: while still being funny, I think is really well done.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah. It speaks to the way she was in her
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 4: personal life as well, and how she never let her
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 4: own struggles with addiction like be a shame for her
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 4: or I'm sure she did privately, but she owned it
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 4: so publicly that I think was very important for a
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 4: lot of people. And she, you know, she talked about
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 4: I was watching interviews she gave around this time talking
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 4: about this movie, and she just talks about it all
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 4: so matter of factly. And same with Richard Dreyfus. This
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 4: movie started as like it was going to be a
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 4: vehicle to talk about addiction, and it was going to
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 4: be starring Richard Dreyfus because he'd also experienced that. And
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 4: you know, she talks about it all just so matter
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 4: of factly, and it's it's very destigmatizing, it's very powerful.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 4: And then you see it presented in this movie with
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 4: a comedic edge as well, and I think that also
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 4: has the exact same effect, which is just let's normalize
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 4: talking about this. Sometimes it is funny.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's just one of one. Yeah, no one's doing
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: what she's doing except this. Watching this movie and covering
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: it does make me want to also cover heartburn, because
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: I just associate her and Nora Efron so strongly as
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: like confessional brunettes of this era. And I feel like
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: there's like a fun conversation about that movie too, because
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: she just killed Carl Bernstein. She just killed him. She
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: killed them in public, and it's I think one of
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: the most historic things that's ever been done.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 4: I've actually never seen heartburn.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: It's great.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 3: It's great.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: She just kills one of the president's men. Anyways, Yes,
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: is there anything else that either of you want us
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: to chat about? Not really, I'm feeling good. I'm feeling good.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: It definitely passes the Beachdel test about all sorts of things,
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: obviously primarily between Doris and Suzanne, but also between Susanne
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: and C. C. H. Pounder, Suzanne and Aretha, grandma and
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: you know, daughter and granddaughter. There is This movie is
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: unquestionably about women and about surviving your early days out
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: of addiction and surviving your mother. So easy pass it
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: is a very very white movie, it needs to be said.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 3: And so reading it on our nipple scale, where we
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 3: rate the movie zero to five nipples based on examining
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 3: it through an intersectional feminist lens all, go oh gosh,
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: I don't know. Three four, three and a half, I
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: don't know.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 3: What I like about this movie is it's I think,
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 3: more nuanced examination of a mother daughter relationship that feels authentic,
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 3: even though, like I don't have the same backstory at
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 3: all as the Suzanne character. I saw so many traces
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: of the types of things they argue about in arguments
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: I've had with my mother. Not to put my mom
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: on blast here, but there was just so much that
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 3: was familiar about maybe not the specifics, but of the
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: essence of their arguments and resentments, but also their love
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 3: and affection for each other. Yeah, so I guess because
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 3: of that, let's go three and a half and I'm
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 3: gonna get them all to Carrie Fisher. And I also
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 3: want to shout out that she had said that when
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 3: she was working as a script doctor, her goal was
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 3: to make the women characters smarter and the love scenes better.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: So she did it.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 3: A champion for women love her across the board. So yeah,
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 3: three and a half nipples all to Carrie Fisher.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna go four. I'm going four. I'm going for it.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: I love this movie. There's only one Carrie Fisher. There
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: are certainly things that are a product of it's time.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: It doesn't tackle absolutely everything that could, and you know,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: mainly it is a very white movie that said, I
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: just think this, I don't know. The way that she
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: writes relationships between women and between mothers and daughters is
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: so specific and so cool, and I just I love
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: But there is a world where Debbie Reynolds could have
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: taken this story's existence very poorly. But there's also really
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: sweet pictures of them at the premiere together, and I think,
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: you know, Debbie Reynolds is like, all attention is good attention,
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: all press is good press. She has survived so much
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: worse than this, and I just really appreciate just Carrie
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: Fisher in general, but Carrie Fisher and Debbie Reynolds like
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: generosity with each other to sort things out often in public.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 3: I love it.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to give it four nipples. I'm going
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: to give one to Carrie. I'm going to give one
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: to C. H. Pounder, I'm going to give one to
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: I guess SHIRLEYE. McLain, she deserves it, and then I'm
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: going to give my last one to Oliver Platt because
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: I just love to see a young Oliver Platt pop up.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 3: He is for me, He really is for you, Jamie, Crystal,
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 3: how about you.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I'll see your three and a half
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 4: in your four and I think I might raise you
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 4: four and a half.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 4: Nice, I'm going there. Yeah. I think it's a delightful,
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 4: delightful movie, and for all of the reasons that you
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 4: guys have already outlined. But yeah, what a great time
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 4: spent watching all of these wonderful people do all of
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 4: these wonderful things. I will give my four and a
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 4: half nipples to all of the blanks that Meryl fires
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 4: off at Dennis.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 3: Quaid and then she goes relax. They're just blanks speeds off.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 3: There's so much like peeling out in this movie.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: Really we used if we used to be a proper country.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: Any Meryl Street comedy performance is worth celebrating, truly, I
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: know it.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm I'm going to see Devil Wor's part of
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 4: two tomorrow and I'm very prepared for it to be
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 4: incredibly mid but i know I'm gonna just love watching her.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: It's worth it for her, It's always worth it for her.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 3: Wow. Well, Crystal, thank you so much for joining us
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 3: for a fourth time, come back for a fifth and
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 3: get your imaginary Bechdel Cast jacket.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: It's going to exist one that I we're working on it.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 3: We're working on it.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: We're yeah, they're handstitched. It takes a long time. It
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: takes a long time.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you for having me. It's it's always such
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 4: a treat. And yeah, if you're listening, please check out
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 4: my podcast which is called camp Classics and it's out
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 4: every two weeks and we discuss movies just like this one.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: Yay.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 3: Can people follow you on Instagram or anything like that, Yes.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 4: Camp Classics Podcast and Crystal will see you now on
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 4: all fine social medias and all the unfine ones too.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 3: Which is most all of them, all of them. You
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 3: can follow us also on bad bad social media platforms
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 3: such as Instagram at Bechdel Cast. You can support us
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 3: on Patreon aka are Matreon, where Jamie and I do
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 3: two episodes every month based on a genius, brilliant, amazing theme.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: Often of your choice unless you misbehave and then it's
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: of our choice. And that's just sort of how the
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: Matreon works.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, and yeah, we put up polls all the
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 3: time so you can pick which movies it's very fun
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 3: and that's all for five dollars a month at patreon
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 3: dot com slash Bechtel Cast.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: And with that, uh, why don't we how do we
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: end this? Why don't we sing a long Shell Silverstein
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: country song for some reason to close it out?
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 3: Why the hellmu let's do it?
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: Bye bye.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 3: Bye.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted and
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: produced by Me, Jamie Loftus and.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 3: Me Kaitlyn Durrante. The podcast is also produced by Sophie Lichtermann.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: And edited by Caitlyn Durrante. Ever heard of Them?
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 3: That's me and our logo and merch and all of
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 3: our artwork in fact are designed by Jamie Loftus, Ever
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 3: heard of her?
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: Oh My God? And our theme song, by the way,
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskrasinski
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: Iconic and a special thanks to the one and only
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: Aristotle Ascevedo.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 3: For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree slash
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 3: Spectel Cast