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"20 Weeks Pregnant and Diagnosed with Cancer: Amy's Story of Hope" · The Eye Believe Podcast

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All right, welcome back to the Eye Believe Podcast, where I am joined today
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by Amy Reeves Clews and where we share powerful
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stories of resilience, hope and survival of ocular melanoma.
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Today, we have the privilege of talking to Amy Reeves Clews,
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a courageous, nearly five year survivor of ocular melanoma.
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Amy's journey is one of strength during both her pregnancy
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and a rare cancer diagnosis, and it's an inspiring story.
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So she's here today to share that story.
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And I just want to welcome you, Amy, as a guest on our show.
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And thank you for joining us.
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And thank you for joining us.
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Thank you for having me. Hi.
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What were the initial signs for you when you were diagnosed?
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Yeah. So for me,
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I was 16
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weeks pregnant with my daughter after a long pregnancy.
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So I have my son, who's 11, waited quite a long time
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So I have my son, who's 11, waited quite a long time
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So I have my son, who's 11, waited quite a long time
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to fall pregnant with my daughter.
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my daughter.
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my daughter.
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And we sadly, we had a miscarriage,
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And we sadly, we had a miscarriage,
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prior to falling pregnant with Sissy. And,
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basically the first initial sign was that my
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I had kind of like flash, so flashing floaters
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that were kind of quickening, almost like a sort of snake, sort of,
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that were kind of quickening, almost like a sort of snake, sort of,
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sort of going across the the top part of my right eye.
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sort of going across the the top part of my right eye.
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and it was just, it's horrible just sitting like I was almost like,
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and it was just, it's horrible just sitting like I was almost like,
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you know, when you kind of have a tail, fashion cameras
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and someone would sort of flash a camera and then it would just be there,
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and I, I sort of kept saying to my mom or my sister, like, I want to focus.
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I have lots of sisters, lots of them.
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I have lots of sisters, lots of them.
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So lots of people to ask to ask, should I have to have a problem?
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Of course.
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And basically I, I went to my mom and I said, look, mom,
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And basically I, I went to my mom and I said, look, mom,
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something's not right with you.
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something's not right with you.
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And I said, well, I've got this kind of
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And I said, well, I've got this kind of
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slow sitting in the corner of my eyes, driving me crazy.
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and I was totally pregnant at the time.
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And 16 weeks and we went to the baby show up in London,
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and I was having a look around, and my sister,
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and I was having a look around, and my sister,
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my younger sister out of the four of us is pregnant about the same time as me.
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So we both have babies that are two weeks apart,
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So we both have babies that are two weeks apart,
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So we both have babies that are two weeks apart,
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and they would have been the same day, but obviously because of my treatment.
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and they would have been the same day, but obviously because of my treatment.
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and they would have been the same day, but obviously because of my treatment.
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and then the thing I have to sort of have since the early and sister, my sister
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and then the thing I have to sort of have since the early and sister, my sister
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is like, I'm having this horrible flash of dating is is it pregnancy?
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is like, I'm having this horrible flash of dating is is it pregnancy?
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Is it something to do with the fact that I might have preeclampsia?
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Is it something to do with the fact that I might have preeclampsia?
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I thought I had preeclampsia
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I thought I had preeclampsia
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just said, oh no, I haven't gone to that, that maybe just upstairs.
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So on the phone tried to meet my doctor, couldn't get through.
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took myself to I'm said like, you need to go get your eyes checked.
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Just take yourself to the optician to that side.
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Just take yourself to the optician to that side.
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But first of all, let's go to get your blood pressure test,
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because obviously if it's preeclampsia, it could be something like that.
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But so it's affecting your vision.
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So I went to the opticians saw them price that went to see obviously the
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the the testing in the pharmacy at Sainsbury's
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the the testing in the pharmacy at Sainsbury's
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like a local supermarket where they check for blood pressure.
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like a local supermarket where they check for blood pressure.
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I said oh nothing.
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Something's worrying that your blood pressure's fine.
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Take yourself to the opticians.
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Take yourself to the opticians.
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So I went to the opticians, spoke to the, managers there.
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So I went to the opticians, spoke to the, managers there.
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They were quite concerned in the sense of they wouldn't let me go.
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They were like back, okay. When I said, what's wrong?
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They were like back, okay. When I said, what's wrong?
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I said, we need to.
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We need to have a look really behind the back of the eye.
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We need to have a look really behind the back of the eye.
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We need to do something that's like an old eye CT scan.
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We need to do something that's like an old eye CT scan.
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So is that okay?
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Fine.
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Fine.
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Patty, I CT scan done
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more since I hospital in London.
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more since I hospital in London.
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So sitting there thinking, well what's the problem
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that there's not mentioned any the major I just said you need to go.
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that there's not mentioned any the major I just said you need to go.
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that there's not mentioned any the major I just said you need to go.
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So I said well is right the second there about the second.
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So write me a letter.
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Had to go to the sort of A&E department in London and,
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and sat there waiting in the hospital.
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and sat there waiting in the hospital.
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My mum had my children for me, waiting for somebody.
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My mum had my children for me, waiting for somebody.
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And then they were sort of looking at my eye
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and I said, I've had these flashing floaters.
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I don't, I don't feel quite
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within it.
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within it.
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Could it be like a silent migraine that what's going on?
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And because I wasn't obviously over the, the 10th or the I think 16 over 18
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And because I wasn't obviously over the, the 10th or the I think 16 over 18
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And because I wasn't obviously over the, the 10th or the I think 16 over 18
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weeks away in UK, then you can't be seen by a midwifery team in the hospital.
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weeks away in UK, then you can't be seen by a midwifery team in the hospital.
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You have to go through.
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And so he was like, okay, well we'll have a look, looked at it,
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And so he was like, okay, well we'll have a look, looked at it,
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and basically said to me, oh yeah, I can see it's a male,
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you've got a male that's been noted sort of on your file.
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and it seems to sort of it's got a funny shape.
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You've got a funny shape.
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The funny color is fine before, but the single one of the consultants
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didn't think anything of it.
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He sent me home. Didn't think anything of it.
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I thought, well, okay, it's just the most people have moles all over the place.
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Maybe I've just got a freckle in my eye.
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Maybe I've just got a freckle in my eye.
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So went home and then three days later,
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I kind of got this demented letter out, ocular oncology.
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And I looked at my husband and
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I said, what?
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I said, what?
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I said, what?
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What? What's happening? Like what's going on?
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What? What's happening? Like what's going on?
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I said, well, that's just that's the appointment to see what I have to say.
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and luckily and luckily, when I went to that first sort of appointment,
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there was a, the consultant that I saw
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there was a, the consultant that I saw
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was world renowned for, for eyes, basically.
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professor D'Amato in London, the oncology department.
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professor D'Amato in London, the oncology department.
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And he basically sat there, and looked
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And he basically sat there, and looked
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at my notes to my eye and he said,
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are you sitting down a sorry, are you comfortable?
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are you sitting down a sorry, are you comfortable?
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You need to sit down.
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I really need you to listen to what I'm about to tell you.
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And I had my mum obviously sat behind me, my husband next to me.
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And I had my mum obviously sat behind me, my husband next to me.
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and I said, what's your name?
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He said, well, I need you should really get some.
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Do you have a phone?
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I need you to record what I'm about to say to you.
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it's very important, and I need you to listen.
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it's very important, and I need you to listen.
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So with that, I was obviously very, very, very stressed out.
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So with that, I was obviously very, very, very stressed out.
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Didn't know what to kind of do.
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Didn't know what to kind of do.
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So I sat there and I just felt this horrible, horrible feeling
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in the pit of my stomach, like it's it's obviously bad, it's cancer, it's bad.
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in the pit of my stomach, like it's it's obviously bad, it's cancer, it's bad.
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in the pit of my stomach, like it's it's obviously bad, it's cancer, it's bad.
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And the first thing I said to my husband was, what about my children?
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And the first thing I said to my husband was, what about my children?
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I don't know what I'm going to do.
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Like, what are we going to do?
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Like, what are we going to do?
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And he said this to the doctor, and the doctor basically notes and said,
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I'm really sorry that you can't cure them. Adenoma.
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I'm really sorry that you can't cure them. Adenoma.
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And I said, but I don't, I don't.
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And I said, but I don't, I don't.
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And I said, but I don't, I don't.
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What's that?
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And he said, well, basically you've got melanoma.
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It's a mole that's malignant and you're obviously pregnant.
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Where do we go from here?
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So I was like, well, what are the choices?
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So I was like, well, what are the choices?
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What are the options?
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I've just had to explained to him that I've had the miscarriage,
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obviously with my daughter, but prior to my daughter,
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obviously with my daughter, but prior to my daughter,
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and I said,
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do you think it's the pregnancy hormone that's triggered it
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because I've had fertility treatment whilst, to sustain
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because I've had fertility treatment whilst, to sustain
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my finances, I suffered with PCOS and endometriosis.
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my finances, I suffered with PCOS and endometriosis.
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Could that have an effect on me? And he said, I really don't know.
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He said, we don't know all we know now, looking at the color of that
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He said, we don't know all we know now, looking at the color of that
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and I can tell you that is malignant melanoma.
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He said, we need to look at the treatment options.
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He said, we need to look at the treatment options.
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So then the treatment options were obviously okay.
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It was literally I just felt so robbed.
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I felt robbed.
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I felt robbed.
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I felt just so angry.
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I felt just so angry.
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I felt like, why, why,
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I felt like, why, why,
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why, why, after all that, we've gone through
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and previously to this, like my son, he he had,
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and previously to this, like my son, he he had,
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and previously to this, like my son, he he had,
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in 2017, he got chickenpox, which turned into encephalitis.
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So he's really struggled.
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So as a family we've had so much heartache and so much trauma.
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So as a family we've had so much heartache and so much trauma.
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So as a family we've had so much heartache and so much trauma.
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And then I have to discuss.
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And then I found out and it was all just like, what?
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And then I found out and it was all just like, what?
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And then I found out and it was all just like, what?
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And then I found out and it was all just like, what?
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Why anyone to that point, it's just it was it feels.
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Why anyone to that point, it's just it was it feels.
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Like just too much.
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Like just too much.
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It was just heart wrenching.
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I just I just sat there and I thought, I'm going to lose my baby,
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I just I just sat there and I thought, I'm going to lose my baby,
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that I'm not going to see this baby full term.
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It's not going to happen. Like something something's going to.
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It's not going to happen. Like something something's going to.
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They're going to tell me that we have to either look at other options.
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They're going to tell me that we have to either look at other options.
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and I wasn't I wasn't prepared to do that.
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And I just said, look,
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we need to come up with a solution for me because I've been through
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we need to come up with a solution for me because I've been through
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so much heartbreak and so much like just the whole thing,
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so much heartbreak and so much like just the whole thing,
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so much heartbreak and so much like just the whole thing,
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the whole feeling of the not knowing for me was really scary.
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the whole feeling of the not knowing for me was really scary.
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and it was allowed.
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The first thing I think one of the questions
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I said to them was, have you ever treated a pregnant woman before?
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I said to them was, have you ever treated a pregnant woman before?
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And now that, well, yes, we have had a couple of women that have had this.
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Obviously not the same issue because your tumors on the optic nerve.
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So in a way
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So in a way
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it was a blessing in disguise that had I have not had my visions company,
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I wouldn't have known the tumor was there and it could have gone on.
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I wouldn't have known the tumor was there and it could have gone on.
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It could have grown more.
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It could have grown more.
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But at the same time I was like, okay, that's great, that's great.
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But if you looked it up at the same time, what are we going to do?
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Like what
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are we going to do with with my pregnancy that how is this going to progress.
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are we going to do with with my pregnancy that how is this going to progress.
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Yeah. And I was sort of yeah.
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Well and I can imagine there might have even been some question
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too, of, of if you have cancer treatment and continue the pregnancy
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too, of, of if you have cancer treatment and continue the pregnancy
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because it sounds, it sounds like any, any talk
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But had they brought up the idea of terminating the pregnancy so that it's.
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But had they brought up the idea of terminating the pregnancy so that it's.
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Yeah, they did. So
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how do you leave it?
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how do you leave it?
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It's your choice.
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It's up to you what I thought at the time.
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It's up to you what I thought at the time.
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Sorry.
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Sorry.
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At the time, because I was over, I was in between sort of the care
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At the time, because I was over, I was in between sort of the care
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At the time, because I was over, I was in between sort of the care
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at the small office and with Bart's Hospital in London and,
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they basically were saying that because obviously in the UK,
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they basically were saying that because obviously in the UK,
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certain stages of the pregnancy,
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certain stages of the pregnancy,
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the baby then takes priority over the mother.
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I believe in certain situations.
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So it was like, okay, we need to make sure this baby's safe as well.
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So it was like, okay, we need to make sure this baby's safe as well.
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Not it's not just that.
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Not it's not just that.
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It was, it was the baby is also a priority with him.
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It was, it was the baby is also a priority with him.
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It was, it was the baby is also a priority with him.
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And I was having that limbo time.
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So it was
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So it was
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I mean, they had various meetings and they said to me the booking is to put
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you in contact with all,
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the cancer nurses that were lovely and they're going to give you
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some advice and support and we'll see what we can come up with in the meetings.
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some advice and support and we'll see what we can come up with in the meetings.
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some advice and support and we'll see what we can come up with in the meetings.
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We're going to have a chat about your your case.
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there's two options, he said.
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there's two options, he said.
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There's the radioactive piece of it.
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And that poses a risk of to you're pregnant.
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We don't know what that's going to do to your baby.
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We don't know what that's going to do to your baby.
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And I'm sitting here thinking, oh my God, I've got my son.
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That's obviously seven.
8:45
That's obviously seven.
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He want my risk for radiation as well.
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He want my risk for radiation as well.
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Yeah, exactly.
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And it's like I couldn't do it. I just I can't do that.
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How do I know that's actually going to work?
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Like,
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I need to know that obviously anything I have is going to be safe for the baby.
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I need to know that obviously anything I have is going to be safe for the baby.
8:58
so then they start to talk about the proton beam therapy, which I had.
9:01
Okay. And,
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but it was sort of like that getting me through the stages.
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And every time I had to have photosynthetic therapy, which was like a,
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And every time I had to have photosynthetic therapy, which was like a,
9:08
laser beam kind of treatment with an intravenous,
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injections, the maintenance at this plant based around me and Cissy,
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injections, the maintenance at this plant based around me and Cissy,
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I mean, she has health complications that we're not sure what it is to do
9:15
I mean, she has health complications that we're not sure what it is to do
9:18
with the treatment I had.
9:19
with the treatment I had.
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I think it is because obviously it was stunting the tumor,
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the growth of the tumor.
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and it's almost the whole time I was just thinking it's not ever going to be one.
9:27
Is she going to be okay?
9:28
Is she going to be healthy? Is she going to have problems?
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Is she going to need constant care? Is she.
9:31
Is she going to need constant care? Is she.
9:32
Is she going to need constant care? Is she.
9:33
And it was just it was just so it was so weird to be honest with you.
9:35
And it was just it was just so it was so weird to be honest with you.
9:35
And it was just it was just so it was so weird to be honest with you.
9:37
It was just the place that the turmoil, like it was horrible.
9:40
Yeah. The worst, worst of the worst ever.
9:41
Yeah. The worst, worst of the worst ever.
9:43
yeah.
9:43
Okay.
9:43
again, in many cancer patients with ocular melanoma,
9:47
there's maybe a 2 to 3 month delay, right, that you get an initial diagnosis.
9:50
And then from there you set a treatment plan and you have the treatment.
9:51
And it's most often,
9:54
in a you know, maybe not most often, but but more commonly than not, it's
9:58
become the practice that that is proton beam therapy or plaque therapy.
10:02
small tumors that are detected very, very early
10:05
that allow for, you know, other, you know, other alternatives.
10:08
So with your situation, because you were, you know, roughly 20 weeks pregnant
10:13
and you still had a lot of time to go, I imagine there was kind of this,
10:16
almost this balance of playing it by ear as they were both monitoring the tumor,
10:16
almost this balance of playing it by ear as they were both monitoring the tumor,
10:17
Yes, but also monitoring Cissy and making sure that she wasn't suffering at all,
10:17
Yes, but also monitoring Cissy and making sure that she wasn't suffering at all,
10:18
Yes, but also monitoring Cissy and making sure that she wasn't suffering at all,
10:18
that she was still developing well as well as they could tell.
10:19
that she was still developing well as well as they could tell.
10:20
You know, with any testing you can do in utero.
10:20
You mentioned this photodynamic therapy.
10:20
You mentioned this photodynamic therapy.
10:21
Yeah. So how often?
10:22
From 20 weeks until you delivered it, I think you said 37 weeks. Yes.
10:22
From 20 weeks until you delivered it, I think you said 37 weeks. Yes.
10:23
From 20 weeks until you delivered it, I think you said 37 weeks. Yes.
10:23
so in that 17 or so week period, how often were you having this
10:24
so in that 17 or so week period, how often were you having this
10:24
photo dynamic therapy.
10:25
So I had four opportunities for in total.
10:26
So I had four opportunities for in total.
10:27
Thinking about it I think was four in total.
10:29
and every time I
10:30
mean, I kind of need those, the world because maybe when it's needles.
10:30
mean, I kind of need those, the world because maybe when it's needles.
10:33
But, every time I had it, I was like, obviously conscious.
10:33
But, every time I had it, I was like, obviously conscious.
10:36
I was it made me photosynthetic.
10:38
So I couldn't go out and just the other thing
10:40
couldn't go out into the sunlight straight after that.
10:42
But gloves on, it was like it was obviously, no, it wasn't winter.
10:44
But gloves on, it was like it was obviously, no, it wasn't winter.
10:45
But gloves on, it was like it was obviously, no, it wasn't winter.
10:45
But gloves on, it was like it was obviously, no, it wasn't winter.
10:46
So it was looking a bit strange going out, but yeah, it just
10:48
So it was looking a bit strange going out, but yeah, it just
10:49
I would say because even now, since we have that light of options,
10:51
I would say because even now, since we have that light of options,
10:52
so when she goes in the sun, she gets really bad,
10:54
like sort of exposure to the sun.
10:56
like sort of exposure to the sun.
10:56
And I just think, what is that to do for treatment?
10:58
But yeah, we had four rounds of that.
11:00
to try and get me.
11:01
So it was initially three set out
11:03
So it was initially three set out
11:03
and then the consultant's like, look, we need to really get going with this,
11:07
to get you sort of as close as we can to delivery.
11:08
to get you sort of as close as we can to delivery.
11:09
So it's safe.
11:10
And I was obviously under the settings department with regards to the baby,
11:11
And I was obviously under the settings department with regards to the baby,
11:13
that was to say, and making sure that her lungs were developing
11:16
and making sure that she was okay.
11:18
And she was this is a very big baby.
11:18
And she was this is a very big baby.
11:20
So the three weeks early, she was a big baby 9 pound four.
11:20
So the three weeks early, she was a big baby 9 pound four.
11:22
So for them, she was developing,
11:25
as she was doing she was doing great.
11:26
as she was doing she was doing great.
11:27
as she was doing she was doing great.
11:27
I mean, I had sort of the sense of also going to creative along the way
11:28
I mean, I had sort of the sense of also going to creative along the way
11:30
at the end of the pregnancy.
11:31
But they did they did do a really good job in getting me to that final stage.
11:36
But the worry and the niggling in the background
11:38
was still there, with the whole constant worry of what?
11:39
was still there, with the whole constant worry of what?
11:41
was still there, with the whole constant worry of what?
11:41
What if something happens?
11:42
What if I get a small child or something like that?
11:44
What if I get a small child or something like that?
11:45
You know what I mean?
11:45
It was really, really sort of just every day was.
11:47
It was really, really sort of just every day was.
11:49
Just a very, very tricky,
11:49
Just a very, very tricky,
11:50
I was really just just a very.
11:51
I was really just just a very.
11:51
Want to be happy because you're pregnant. You never once.
11:53
I didn't have a baby because I just didn't want to.
11:57
I just I said to my mum is, I just feel that it's just it's it was just so much.
11:57
I just I said to my mum is, I just feel that it's just it's it was just so much.
11:58
I just I said to my mum is, I just feel that it's just it's it was just so much.
12:00
And then Covid that obviously Covid hit as well.
12:02
That was not the icing on top of the cake, to be honest with you.
12:06
and it was really nice.
12:06
and it was really nice.
12:07
so yeah, for me it was, it was, yeah, it was, it was awful.
12:08
so yeah, for me it was, it was, yeah, it was, it was awful.
12:11
Like the whole thing pre, pre having CC
12:11
Like the whole thing pre, pre having CC
12:12
Like the whole thing pre, pre having CC
12:14
and then even after having CC having to go to have my my further treatment,
12:17
I don't thought we can talk about that now but yeah.
12:19
before we move on, was there anything that you were,
12:20
before we move on, was there anything that you were,
12:20
while you were having this photodynamic theory or therapy?
12:21
while you were having this photodynamic theory or therapy?
12:21
while you were having this photodynamic theory or therapy?
12:21
while you were having this photodynamic theory or therapy?
12:21
It was really trying to assess my mum.
12:23
So because of Covid and everything and because of the laser
12:26
and the this type of treatment,
12:27
and the this type of treatment,
12:27
my husband obviously would come with it to the appointments.
12:30
My mum would have my son and I always I was so sick,
12:31
My mum would have my son and I always I was so sick,
12:33
I would say like 60 was my little blessing in disguise because
12:34
I would say like 60 was my little blessing in disguise because
12:36
although I was alone in the sense of I was in the room, I had my this,
12:40
although I was alone in the sense of I was in the room, I had my this,
12:40
the doctor, the other side of this
12:42
sort of lens and everything, and my husband was in the waiting room.
12:45
It I didn't, I didn't ever sit alone because I had sex with me.
12:45
It I didn't, I didn't ever sit alone because I had sex with me.
12:47
It I didn't, I didn't ever sit alone because I had sex with me.
12:49
So it was it sounds really silly, but obviously I didn't have anyone
12:51
physically to hold my hand.
12:52
I knew when I have my treatment is that my hand on my tummy and I shouldn't.
12:53
I knew when I have my treatment is that my hand on my tummy and I shouldn't.
12:55
I knew when I have my treatment is that my hand on my tummy and I shouldn't.
12:56
I used to sort of say, it's okay baby, that we're okay.
12:56
I used to sort of say, it's okay baby, that we're okay.
12:58
Like we're going to get through this.
12:59
And she she helps me like a lot.
13:01
And she she helps me like a lot.
13:01
I think psychologically one I'm not very good of needles.
13:02
I think psychologically one I'm not very good of needles.
13:04
And so it was just that knowing I wasn't alone, that she was there,
13:08
she was going through this with me.
13:10
And I kind of feel that long term that she has gone through everything.
13:11
And I kind of feel that long term that she has gone through everything.
13:13
And even now we talk about mummy and mummies, I because I,
13:17
she asked me questions and
13:18
I've always been very open with her because I think she went through
13:20
I've always been very open with her because I think she went through
13:21
that treatment in the womb without even knowing what was going on.
13:26
And I do think, yeah, it was know, it was, it wasn't, it wasn't great.
13:27
And I do think, yeah, it was know, it was, it wasn't, it wasn't great.
13:30
But I did have I felt like I had a C sitting with me that kept me going.
13:33
But I did have I felt like I had a C sitting with me that kept me going.
13:34
and yeah, I mean, it was just it was just not, not the nicest,
13:38
presents of, of treatments, but it had to be there for sure.
13:39
presents of, of treatments, but it had to be there for sure.
13:41
And that's what I find.
13:43
And it sounds like it stabilized the tumor, or it at least
13:43
And it sounds like it stabilized the tumor, or it at least
13:44
allowed you to, complete as much of your pregnancy as possible.
13:44
allowed you to, complete as much of your pregnancy as possible.
13:45
allowed you to, complete as much of your pregnancy as possible.
13:45
So that says could be wrong.
13:46
But yeah, it allowed you to,
13:46
you know, to progress in your pregnancy so that Cissy could be born. Yes.
13:47
You know, early, but not too early.
13:47
So do you want to just talk us through? Talk us through your delivery? Yeah.
13:48
So do you want to just talk us through? Talk us through your delivery? Yeah.
13:48
And what happened right after? Wow.
13:49
And what happened right after? Wow.
13:49
And what happened right after? Wow.
13:49
So with Cissy, she so obviously Covid hit in the midst of all this.
13:52
So with Cissy, she so obviously Covid hit in the midst of all this.
13:53
And, it was the hospital was on lockdown,
13:54
And, it was the hospital was on lockdown,
13:56
and I'm sitting there and I'm thinking what else could go wrong?
13:59
Seriously.
14:00
Like we've got the hospitals on lockdown went into have planned caesarean
14:00
Like we've got the hospitals on lockdown went into have planned caesarean
14:04
because they said to me, like, you need to come in.
14:06
We need to make sure that everything's okay.
14:08
We need to make sure that everything's okay.
14:08
Husband Jason can't come in to literally right at the last minute.
14:11
and I sat there and I was in the delivery of seat got gown darkness
14:15
thing, went into the delivery room, and it was really weird.
14:17
thing, went into the delivery room, and it was really weird.
14:18
Like this.
14:19
I think it's kind of like somebody telling me I wasn't on my own again,
14:22
because I sat there and for some reason, Jason was there, was I.
14:23
because I sat there and for some reason, Jason was there, was I.
14:26
because I sat there and for some reason, Jason was there, was I.
14:26
I don't know why,
14:26
but they were taking their time basically to get him into the operating theater
14:30
because of Covid restrictions, I suppose, and gown enough and all of that.
14:33
I understand waiting for the consultant
14:36
to come in to explain to me about what they're going to do and all of that.
14:39
And I'm sitting there, I see needles and epidurals.
14:40
And I'm sitting there, I see needles and epidurals.
14:41
Thanks a lot.
14:42
Thanks a lot.
14:42
And I said to him, I said, oh, okay, I think I need to wait for my husband.
14:43
And I said to him, I said, oh, okay, I think I need to wait for my husband.
14:44
And I said to him, I said, oh, okay, I think I need to wait for my husband.
14:46
He said, okay, that's fine.
14:47
And then on the radio, because in the UK I'll be there to do it if where you are,
14:49
And then on the radio, because in the UK I'll be there to do it if where you are,
14:50
And then on the radio, because in the UK I'll be there to do it if where you are,
14:50
but in the theaters, if the same symptoms have that radio play and just eased off,
14:51
but in the theaters, if the same symptoms have that radio play and just eased off,
14:51
but in the theaters, if the same symptoms have that radio play and just eased off,
14:55
kind of help with the remote, I suppose that is how people are feeling.
14:56
kind of help with the remote, I suppose that is how people are feeling.
14:58
And, and I was thinking like, okay, I've got this.
15:00
If he's not coming in, I've got to give birth to CC on my
15:04
I have by caesarean. I've just got to do it.
15:06
I have by caesarean. I've just got to do it.
15:06
And the weirdest thing was that in the background was playing,
15:08
And the weirdest thing was that in the background was playing,
15:10
I just called to say
15:11
I love you by, Oh, Stevie Wonder.
15:12
I love you by, Oh, Stevie Wonder.
15:13
And I said to Stevie Wonder, thing is. Yeah.
15:15
And I said to my, my mum, it's so weird because that was my mum and dad's wedding
15:19
song and ordinarily my mum with Albert, she was there with my husband,
15:20
song and ordinarily my mum with Albert, she was there with my husband,
15:22
my mum was there
15:23
my mum was there
15:23
and I was like, oh, that's fine,
15:24
because I know that
15:25
they're there, obviously, although they're not
15:26
they're there, obviously, although they're not
15:27
physically allowed to come because of Covid,
15:28
physically allowed to come because of Covid,
15:28
I feel without a bit of peace, I felt sort of like, okay, I've got this.
15:31
And then with that,
15:32
Jason came into the room and obviously they said that we would deliver her.
15:36
So when she was born, she had like,
15:37
So when she was born, she had like,
15:39
she came out and she cried and they said, well, we just need to take her over.
15:42
That's the other thing.
15:43
And I'm panicking, thinking, oh gosh, is she'll right.
15:45
Is everything okay?
15:46
Is everything okay?
15:46
And they said, no, she's fine, but she's so thick.
15:48
And they said, no, she's fine, but she's so thick.
15:49
Which C of C check her over.
15:49
Which C of C check her over.
15:50
Which C of C check her over.
15:50
Took us back onto the wall onto this like the separate side.
15:53
And they were like, oh, we think she might have an infection.
15:54
And they were like, oh, we think she might have an infection.
15:56
And, and,
15:56
And, and,
15:57
And, and,
15:57
and I sort of was looking through my notes the other day
15:58
because I've got all of our hospital notes due to the fact that when she's older,
16:01
because I've got all of our hospital notes due to the fact that when she's older,
16:02
with no treatment, I've had I want to make sure
16:04
that if there's any problems with what she has going
16:04
that if there's any problems with what she has going
16:06
on, it's not like the fully aware sort of thing.
16:08
on, it's not like the fully aware sort of thing.
16:08
And, it was it was.
16:09
And, it was it was.
16:10
Yeah, that she had like a bit of a cough and she kind of had
16:13
the thoughts of sepsis.
16:14
And then they gave her antibiotics and I was like, right, kind of fine.
16:17
Then we went left on to the I don't remember the thing.
16:19
And they were like, oh yeah.
16:21
And I said to my husband, she looks really orange. And
16:22
And I said to my husband, she looks really orange. And
16:24
she looks pretty okay.
16:25
So I think she's jaundice.
16:26
And so I'm not she's not like my husband's colleague.
16:28
And I said, I know we've got like quite a little that tan skin.
16:31
I said, but she's all orange and the midwife said, yeah.
16:32
I said, but she's all orange and the midwife said, yeah.
16:34
She, she's very jaundice.
16:35
She, she's very jaundice.
16:36
So then what?
16:36
We thought we was obviously going to be in and out because of Covid.
16:39
We wasn't.
16:39
And poor
16:40
Albert was waiting at home, desperate to meet his sister, which he couldn't say.
16:43
So he didn't actually see her till she was about ten days old.
16:44
So he didn't actually see her till she was about ten days old.
16:46
So he didn't actually see her till she was about ten days old.
16:47
I think it was, because of the stage of Covid and everything.
16:48
I think it was, because of the stage of Covid and everything.
16:50
It was quite tricky for him to.
16:51
It was quite tricky for him to.
16:52
It was quite tricky for him to.
16:52
Yeah, see her.
16:53
obviously. So, That sounds like it was.
16:54
obviously. So, That sounds like it was.
16:55
It sounds like it was a lot, a lot to deal with.
16:56
It sounds like it was a lot, a lot to deal with.
16:56
You know, obviously this whole last however many months it is from
16:57
You know, obviously this whole last however many months it is from
16:58
20 weeks to 37 weeks, like, yeah, I can't do that math in my head right now.
16:58
20 weeks to 37 weeks, like, yeah, I can't do that math in my head right now.
16:58
20 weeks to 37 weeks, like, yeah, I can't do that math in my head right now.
16:59
20 weeks to 37 weeks, like, yeah, I can't do that math in my head right now.
17:00
but however many months that is you have that, that you're dealing with
17:00
but however many months that is you have that, that you're dealing with
17:01
the unknown and just all of the worries that come with pregnancy on top of cancer.
17:01
the unknown and just all of the worries that come with pregnancy on top of cancer.
17:02
the unknown and just all of the worries that come with pregnancy on top of cancer.
17:02
Then on top of that, you've got the delivery.
17:03
Then on top of that, you've got the delivery.
17:03
That then is a little bit more complicated
17:03
and then complicated by the circumstance of the pandemic.
17:04
And what was going on then.
17:05
And what was going on then.
17:05
And then you have, you know, the like you in the hospital
17:06
And then you have, you know, the like you in the hospital
17:06
stay and it just sounds like it was it was a lot.
17:07
Yeah, it really was.
17:09
And then the thing I think for me was they had to get her obviously
17:12
onto it to
17:12
onto it to
17:12
get everything sorted and to get my sort of the caesarean
17:16
and things sort of on the way, because I had literally
17:18
and things sort of on the way, because I had literally
17:19
it was a week after delivery, two weeks after the everything
17:22
they gave me two weeks after delivery to then go to Moorfields to have pips
17:24
they gave me two weeks after delivery to then go to Moorfields to have pips
17:26
placed in my eye.
17:27
So I had to have like titanium markers placed by the team.
17:29
So I had to have like titanium markers placed by the team.
17:30
It was so that they could then.
17:32
And another thing which, oh it's horrible.
17:34
but because of Covid, they normally would do it under a general setting
17:37
because of Covid at the local.
17:39
because of Covid at the local.
17:39
And I could remember just being there and having it
17:41
And I could remember just being there and having it
17:42
obviously having much the treatment done at the kitchen.
17:45
And I'm saying, is this consultant like sedated?
17:47
And I'm saying, is this consultant like sedated?
17:47
I can feel it. He said, what do you need?
17:49
I said, I can feel your pushing my I can feel you manipulating my I was able
17:53
I said, I can feel your pushing my I can feel you manipulating my I was able
17:53
to bit foods that is actually hurt and I can physically feel the pain.
17:57
And then with that he's obviously topped up whatever.
17:59
And I'm fine.
18:00
And I'm fine.
18:00
But it was fat.
18:01
But then obviously I had to wait for the clippers to settle down my eyelid
18:04
that had been punched in the face.
18:05
I'm like I said, like so many times.
18:07
It was just so red I couldn't open my eye.
18:09
It was just so red I couldn't open my eye.
18:09
And I said to my husband, what? My eye just doesn't ever open.
18:12
And it's like this because it was so bruised, really horrible.
18:15
Sticky. So,
18:16
and I suppose normally in normal circumstances
18:19
you'd be sort of monitored in hospital for, for a good few days,
18:22
but because of Covid it was like, oh, go on next Sunday, come.
18:25
and it was just yeah, I had to go home and then I had to obviously deal with
18:28
the very day that I felt like a
18:30
something of worry about the bonding side of things,
18:32
because obviously I had to try and heal myself because,
18:36
as you know, as a mom, it's just switch, you know, juggling everything.
18:38
as you know, as a mom, it's just switch, you know, juggling everything.
18:39
yeah. Yeah.
18:39
Have, have had the cuts placed in.
18:41
Then I had to go to three weeks after that to go up to Liverpool to have the part
18:42
Then I had to go to three weeks after that to go up to Liverpool to have the part
18:45
on the mask made up for the, a special mask to go around the area,
18:45
on the mask made up for the, a special mask to go around the area,
18:47
on the mask made up for the, a special mask to go around the area,
18:49
to prevent obviously the, the radiation going anywhere else.
18:52
That was quite scary, actually, to be fair.
18:53
That was quite scary, actually, to be fair.
18:54
that was really sort of like, yeah, let's go and have that done
18:58
and then wait for the mask set, go back, have the actual protocol being treatment.
19:03
which yeah, yeah, it wasn't from what I should when I should be
19:03
which yeah, yeah, it wasn't from what I should when I should be
19:04
which yeah, yeah, it wasn't from what I should when I should be
19:05
and what should have as well, because I should have been having that time.
19:05
and what should have as well, because I should have been having that time.
19:06
and what should have as well, because I should have been having that time.
19:06
and what should have as well, because I should have been having that time.
19:09
I normally would have spent that time with that, be doing that sort of family
19:09
I normally would have spent that time with that, be doing that sort of family
19:11
I normally would have spent that time with that, be doing that sort of family
19:13
bubble things in the sense of, okay, yeah, this is off.
19:14
bubble things in the sense of, okay, yeah, this is off.
19:15
I know this is a family now.
19:17
And I'm recovering like it's it's enough to just recover
19:18
And I'm recovering like it's it's enough to just recover
19:19
from a, a natural delivery add in the layer of a caesarean.
19:20
Yeah.
19:20
So you're, you're recovering from actual major surgery
19:20
So, like, you weren't even fully cleared by the your medical doctors
19:21
So, like, you weren't even fully cleared by the your medical doctors
19:21
So, like, you weren't even fully cleared by the your medical doctors
19:22
from your cesarean before you had the proton beam therapy.
19:22
from your cesarean before you had the proton beam therapy.
19:22
from your cesarean before you had the proton beam therapy.
19:23
from your cesarean before you had the proton beam therapy.
19:23
Yeah, yeah.
19:24
And and that all was,
19:24
And and that all was,
19:25
was weighed by the fact that you couldn't have the treatment while pregnant.
19:26
And they had to balance
19:26
keeping Cissy healthy and keeping you as stable as possible.
19:28
so, it sounds like it was
19:29
so much and so much to handle, not only physically but also emotionally.
19:29
And and I think that that's something that we as cancer patients understand
19:30
more than anything, is just how physically demanding it is to undergo treatment.
19:34
I don't think it matters
19:34
what kind of treatment, how visible it is to someone else.
19:34
You know, you don't.
19:34
we see on TV that you lose your hair when you have cancer treatment and
19:35
necessarily have to lose your hair or undergo major surgery.
19:35
necessarily have to lose your hair or undergo major surgery.
19:37
not that this is this is a major surgery.
19:37
Proton beam radiation therapy.
19:38
Proton beam radiation therapy.
19:38
Any of them are pretty major surgeries.
19:39
Any of them are pretty major surgeries.
19:39
Any of them are pretty major surgeries.
19:40
But you coped with all of this,
19:40
while postpartum,
19:40
dealing with surgical recovery from surgical, like pregnancy surgery
19:45
and also having the physical surgery for your eye to have the proton beam therapy.
19:45
Just kind of over that
19:45
that six weeks and and then after as you kind of settled into life post-treatment.
19:46
that six weeks and and then after as you kind of settled into life post-treatment.
19:46
that six weeks and and then after as you kind of settled into life post-treatment.
19:47
Yeah.
19:47
I think for me, I've always been like one that's kind of been very supportive,
19:51
I think for me, I've always been like one that's kind of been very supportive,
19:51
very positive of everything.
19:52
very positive of everything.
19:53
And I always think there's always my mom with me and I'm very types.
19:55
And I always think there's always my mom with me and I'm very types.
19:56
And I always say that like,
19:57
And I always say that like,
19:57
there's always somebody you just got think it's always somebody worse off than you.
20:00
So yes, it's rubbish. Yes.
20:01
So yes, it's rubbish. Yes.
20:02
It's tough when you going through it. Yes.
20:04
It's real pain in the bum.
20:05
It's real pain in the bum.
20:06
what what can you do to make that better.
20:06
what what can you do to make that better.
20:09
How can you feel about
20:10
how can you can have a lay down and just say, I'm just giving up,
20:11
how can you can have a lay down and just say, I'm just giving up,
20:13
which is really hard because there is this.
20:15
I feel like that some days
20:16
when I really feel like, oh, what is this all about?
20:19
Like what?
20:19
Like what?
20:20
How what's today's going to be like with my lifestyle?
20:22
My vision is changing. Obviously.
20:23
Then my vision had not completely deteriorated.
20:25
Then my vision had not completely deteriorated.
20:26
Now I'm partially sighted in this.
20:26
Now I'm partially sighted in this.
20:28
I can't really see anything in full.
20:30
If I do that, obviously I can't can't see it.
20:31
If I do that, obviously I can't can't see it.
20:32
So I'm a peripheral vision
20:33
so completely kicked out because post having the patch on being,
20:35
so completely kicked out because post having the patch on being,
20:37
I'm now having to have ongoing surgery, like an ongoing treatment
20:40
for Avastin injections and the after lasering.
20:41
for Avastin injections and the after lasering.
20:42
for Avastin injections and the after lasering.
20:43
And I've now got to go into hospital,
20:45
And I've now got to go into hospital,
20:46
in a couple of months to have more lasering done.
20:47
in a couple of months to have more lasering done.
20:48
But because my optic nerve is so trashed and so pale
20:51
from the treatment and the radiation, it's very painful.
20:53
from the treatment and the radiation, it's very painful.
20:54
So I'm under the consult effects.
20:55
So I'm under the consult effects.
20:56
I've got this hemorrhage.
20:57
So it's just ongoing thing every day it's like, oh, the same thing.
21:01
But I think if you say positive, like your mind is a very powerful thing,
21:04
stay positive.
21:05
And I kind of like I think my children keep me going as well.
21:06
And I kind of like I think my children keep me going as well.
21:06
And I kind of like I think my children keep me going as well.
21:08
Like I think having them is a kind of lack of distractions.
21:11
It's my dog in the background.
21:12
It's just that's the unit.
21:13
It's just that's the unit.
21:13
It's just that's the unit.
21:14
yeah.
21:14
Having my, having children.
21:15
Having my, having children.
21:16
I think being a mum, it takes up quite a time.
21:17
I think being a mum, it takes up quite a time.
21:18
Anyway, so the times that I find that I am sort of having
21:22
Anyway, so the times that I find that I am sort of having
21:22
that sort of that horrible feeling of the not knowing kind of thing and the,
21:22
that sort of that horrible feeling of the not knowing kind of thing and the,
21:24
that sort of that horrible feeling of the not knowing kind of thing and the,
21:27
the issues that I
21:27
the issues that I
21:27
have with my vision and it's, you know, it's not fun.
21:29
have with my vision and it's, you know, it's not fun.
21:30
But I do think, like, I mean, I've got a little book.
21:32
I don't know if I showed you my little book that I into.
21:34
I don't know if I showed you my little book that I into.
21:35
So that's my daily gratitude.
21:36
So that's my daily gratitude.
21:37
So I kind of when I'm feeling rubbish, I kind of flip through.
21:38
So I kind of when I'm feeling rubbish, I kind of flip through.
21:39
And then there's like kind of little quotes and things.
21:41
And then there's like kind of little quotes and things.
21:42
So like today, for example, I will find it,
21:44
So like today, for example, I will find it,
21:45
okay.
21:46
So today let's be grateful for the people who make us happy.
21:47
So today let's be grateful for the people who make us happy.
21:50
They are charming gardeners who make ourselves blossom.
21:53
So I just think something like that just really helps me feel safe
21:56
because it sounds really silly, but a little bit, oh.
21:56
because it sounds really silly, but a little bit, oh.
21:58
It's not sucky at. All.
21:59
just really just kind of.
22:00
Yeah.
22:01
So keep me motivated and I kind of I do
22:01
So keep me motivated and I kind of I do
22:02
So keep me motivated and I kind of I do
22:03
think it's the reason I find it really hard to relax.
22:04
think it's the reason I find it really hard to relax.
22:06
So for me, that is my kind of find this out of my day out.
22:07
So for me, that is my kind of find this out of my day out.
22:08
So for me, that is my kind of find this out of my day out.
22:09
You know what I've seen in the rubbish?
22:10
You know what I've seen in the rubbish?
22:11
I'm going to have a look at my book, see what it says and and go with it
22:14
for the day and try to sort of stay positive.
22:14
for the day and try to sort of stay positive.
22:17
Yeah I think yeah.
22:18
That's. Well I think that makes a huge difference.
22:19
and have expressed similar sentiments that just finding,
22:19
even if all you can do is find one thing in the day to be grateful for,
22:20
even if all you can do is find one thing in the day to be grateful for,
22:20
it doesn't solve everything, right.
22:21
it doesn't solve everything, right.
22:22
it doesn't solve everything, right.
22:23
It doesn't make everything better that day.
22:23
It doesn't make everything better that day.
22:23
It doesn't make all the pain go away.
22:24
It doesn't make all the pain go away.
22:24
If you're in pain.
22:25
If you're in pain.
22:25
But it does help.
22:25
And I think it's it's beautiful that you have that and that you recognize that.
22:26
Yeah. Thank you.
22:27
and charity and just community support through your diagnosis and treatment.
22:27
So are there any,
22:28
just kind of shout out or just say like, thank you to?
22:29
Yeah, I mean, generally one of the main charities that's really helped me,
22:32
is that I have The Mummy Star.
22:33
is that I have The Mummy Star.
22:34
They're basically a UK based charity that that helps mums that are either going
22:36
They're basically a UK based charity that that helps mums that are either going
22:38
They're basically a UK based charity that that helps mums that are either going
22:39
through cancer treatment whilst pregnant, priests of post-pregnancy as well.
22:41
through cancer treatment whilst pregnant, priests of post-pregnancy as well.
22:42
through cancer treatment whilst pregnant, priests of post-pregnancy as well.
22:43
and so they've been really, really quite emotional point of view,
22:47
a financial point of view. They've really helped us.
22:49
and I can't thank them enough really,
22:51
for the support they gave me whilst going through all of this.
22:54
the back up Sarah.
22:55
the back up Sarah.
22:56
it's. Yeah, it's just me.
22:58
They've they have really helped me.
22:59
I've also found kind of, that
23:00
I've also found kind of, that
23:01
the ones that get my family brilliant.
23:03
Like, I love that my mum has been that my husband
23:06
Like, I love that my mum has been that my husband
23:07
has been brilliant throughout this whole situation.
23:09
and it's just I just.
23:10
and it's just I just.
23:10
Yeah, I just you find the kind of like, when you look at Instagram or whatever,
23:11
Yeah, I just you find the kind of like, when you look at Instagram or whatever,
23:13
Yeah, I just you find the kind of like, when you look at Instagram or whatever,
23:15
and I see that can be found a kind of pushy guys.
23:17
and so I've actually found somebody else that's going through a similar thing to me
23:20
because it's so rare over here as well that you genuinely
23:22
because it's so rare over here as well that you genuinely
23:22
don't really know anyone that's going through the same situation.
23:25
And it is really hard when you haven't got anybody you can talk to.
23:25
And it is really hard when you haven't got anybody you can talk to.
23:28
And I sort of spoke to a few ladies that,
23:30
found via Instagram that they,
23:32
some connections from mummy star and estate investments at all.
23:34
some connections from mummy star and estate investments at all.
23:36
I hear you're going through similar things to me that she had.
23:38
I hope she a high removed,
23:41
because I was talking
23:41
potentially about that with the hemorrhage because it was getting quite,
23:45
it was, it happened and I was worried about the
23:47
it was, it happened and I was worried about the
23:48
the risk of the tumor, sort of if the radiation hadn't
23:50
the risk of the tumor, sort of if the radiation hadn't
23:51
completely sort of worked so far that she continued to sort of treat
23:52
completely sort of worked so far that she continued to sort of treat
23:54
completely sort of worked so far that she continued to sort of treat
23:56
that that would obviously cause a problem with the new blood vessels going.
23:59
And I met the stadium and she'd signed up,
24:01
and it's just nice to speak to somebody else.
24:02
So it's amazing how like an online community can actually help you and, and.
24:04
So it's amazing how like an online community can actually help you and, and.
24:07
So it's amazing how like an online community can actually help you and, and.
24:07
Yeah, and be that person because obviously we've got our friends,
24:08
Yeah, and be that person because obviously we've got our friends,
24:10
we've got our family, but they don't really understand
24:12
what you're going through.
24:13
what you're going through.
24:13
I mean, I was talking to my, family, my cousin, actually,
24:14
I mean, I was talking to my, family, my cousin, actually,
24:16
my second cousin, about things that she's going through, cancer treatment,
24:17
my second cousin, about things that she's going through, cancer treatment,
24:18
my second cousin, about things that she's going through, cancer treatment,
24:19
and she's sort of out the other side.
24:21
Now with that, and I said, you just don't understand.
24:21
Now with that, and I said, you just don't understand.
24:23
People just don't understand unless they're going through that themselves.
24:26
No matter how much of us is on them.
24:27
So we are going through this, what can I do?
24:30
It's great.
24:30
It's lovely that they do want to support you.
24:32
It's lovely that they do want to support you.
24:33
I think it's just really hard, isn't it.
24:34
As a as an as an I'm a survivor that you just kind of
24:37
you just.
24:38
Yeah.
24:38
You need that sort of person that doesn't really know you that's online
24:39
You need that sort of person that doesn't really know you that's online
24:40
You need that sort of person that doesn't really know you that's online
24:42
that you can, can confide in in a way and the sort of advice or,
24:44
that you can, can confide in in a way and the sort of advice or,
24:45
or things that they might do or events they might be doing for fundraising
24:46
or things that they might do or events they might be doing for fundraising
24:49
and stuff.
24:49
So yeah, I find that the online feel safe, especially as services really help me.
24:51
So yeah, I find that the online feel safe, especially as services really help me.
24:53
So yeah. Thank you.
24:54
Now I love that and I think would be great if we.
24:55
Now I love that and I think would be great if we.
24:55
That's what I was going to say.
24:56
And I just my children and my husband are just going to
24:57
And I just my children and my husband are just going to
24:59
yeah thank them.
24:59
Can't thank them for being my support system in the sense
25:03
of just keeping me going.
25:03
of just keeping me going.
25:04
of just keeping me going.
25:04
They're the ones that keep me going.
25:06
All right.
25:07
So Amy, you've been through a lot and you are now five years post-treatment almost.
25:12
And life has obviously continued on for you while also being a lot to deal with.
25:16
And we can kind of go from there. Yeah.
25:17
And we can kind of go from there. Yeah.
25:17
So for me, I mean, every day I woke up with a headache and every day
25:21
it's just, oh, it's just horrible.
25:23
And I'm meant to start in a new sort of, treatment to help with that.
25:25
And I'm meant to start in a new sort of, treatment to help with that.
25:26
I mean, I get, like, visual aural migraines, which is really awful.
25:28
I mean, I get, like, visual aural migraines, which is really awful.
25:30
I kind of one minute and find the next minute
25:32
I'll get it's kind of like kaleidoscope feeling and everything closes in,
25:34
I'll get it's kind of like kaleidoscope feeling and everything closes in,
25:35
and it's just really hard to do when you've got two small children.
25:38
I mean, my husband has to take time to help me,
25:40
or he may have to take time to change appointments.
25:43
It's just never ending. And it is really hard.
25:45
It's just never ending. And it is really hard.
25:46
And I think back to the question before like this, how
25:46
And I think back to the question before like this, how
25:46
And I think back to the question before like this, how
25:49
your mind is a powerful thing that yeah, it is,
25:52
but it doesn't detract from the fact that daily when you wake up
25:55
but it doesn't detract from the fact that daily when you wake up
25:55
every morning, you wake up with a headache and it's really debilitating.
25:59
Like you just yeah, it's just not nice.
26:00
Like you just yeah, it's just not nice.
26:01
And I think for me as well, especially
26:02
and it says recently, but with when I'm sort of doing things
26:04
and it says recently, but with when I'm sort of doing things
26:04
and it says recently, but with when I'm sort of doing things
26:05
indoors, I'm having to I'm finding that I have to slow things down
26:09
because I'm used to doing everything so quick and that when my vision's now
26:11
because I'm used to doing everything so quick and that when my vision's now
26:12
deteriorating, for example, my three year old let's blueberries love strawberries.
26:13
deteriorating, for example, my three year old let's blueberries love strawberries.
26:15
So I go to put something in fridge, and then all of a sudden I don't see that
26:19
film, that something annoying film that's on top of the
26:23
the planet of strawberries about blueberries, whatever it might be.
26:23
the planet of strawberries about blueberries, whatever it might be.
26:24
the planet of strawberries about blueberries, whatever it might be.
26:25
the planet of strawberries about blueberries, whatever it might be.
26:25
And I end up dropping those on the floor, or I'll put my hands to get something
26:29
out of the oven and burn my hand on the oven on the oven thing.
26:31
out of the oven and burn my hand on the oven on the oven thing.
26:32
Or, I'll get a glass. And it's like a regular thing.
26:32
Or, I'll get a glass. And it's like a regular thing.
26:34
Now central has an oh, look what I broke today.
26:36
Oh, another chip in the tile.
26:38
Oh, oh, it's just you have to kind of laugh because if you don't, you cry.
26:38
Oh, oh, it's just you have to kind of laugh because if you don't, you cry.
26:41
And I just it is very frustrating, and very annoying.
26:41
And I just it is very frustrating, and very annoying.
26:43
And I just it is very frustrating, and very annoying.
26:44
But it is just something I'm having to deal with and have to.
26:47
But it is just something I'm having to deal with and have to.
26:47
And this is my life now.
26:48
This is life after cancer, after my treatment.
26:50
Like, that's what I've got to deal with.
26:52
That's what I've got to do.
26:53
but yeah, it isn't isn't great.
26:54
And I just think cancer, I have cancer, but cancer hasn't got me back.
26:58
I'm not going to let it beat me.
26:59
I'm not going to let it get to me.
27:01
I'm still going to try and do what I want to do.
27:03
and that's it.
27:04
Really. I'm just. Yeah. I'm not letting it.
27:06
I haven't got cancer.
27:06
I haven't got cancer.
27:07
It's not there. It's just not there.
27:09
And I do think that by me sort of reinforcing that, it kind of takes
27:11
And I do think that by me sort of reinforcing that, it kind of takes
27:13
the, the, the mindset of it away in a way, if that makes sense.
27:14
the, the, the mindset of it away in a way, if that makes sense.
27:17
Now, I love that that kind of mantra of just that just kind of powering
27:21
that belief and helping your brain to repetitively believe it.
27:22
and the power of mantras is that the more that we repeat something, the easier
27:22
it becomes for our brain to kind of latch onto that belief.
27:23
it becomes for our brain to kind of latch onto that belief.
27:23
Yeah.
27:23
So I think that's a really powerful thing, and I love that you do that.
27:24
So I think that's a really powerful thing, and I love that you do that.
27:24
I.T let's talk about those kinds of things.
27:26
I.T let's talk about those kinds of things.
27:26
Scams i.t I absolutely hate it.
27:28
So I have to projects because of obviously like the self-blame with the treatments
27:32
every six months my liver has to be checked
27:34
and I have to have the blood test and the scan
27:36
and you have to starve for hours before any kind of morning coffee,
27:36
and you have to starve for hours before any kind of morning coffee,
27:38
and you have to starve for hours before any kind of morning coffee,
27:40
because after you have to obviously see that, see and check.
27:40
because after you have to obviously see that, see and check.
27:42
and that horrible pit is horrible stabbing in your stomach
27:44
and that horrible pit is horrible stabbing in your stomach
27:45
when you're sitting there and you just think of what the worst case scenario.
27:47
when you're sitting there and you just think of what the worst case scenario.
27:47
when you're sitting there and you just think of what the worst case scenario.
27:49
And then I think,
27:49
I don't let that into my brain, that it's not that it's going to be fine.
27:52
It's going to be fine.
27:53
but it's horrible when you're in that room.
27:54
and that's when I find myself that sort of going on to my,
27:57
and that's when I find myself that sort of going on to my,
27:57
my phone or looking at, how far, how far I've actually come.
27:58
my phone or looking at, how far, how far I've actually come.
28:00
And I just think, now you've got this, that it's fine.
28:02
It will be okay. Like, it's it's another scan.
28:03
It will be okay. Like, it's it's another scan.
28:04
Just think of it as it's your reassurance that everything is going to be fine.
28:09
yeah.
28:09
I do really struggle with the scan side of things.
28:11
The scan anxiety, and it's just, I mean, my
28:12
The scan anxiety, and it's just, I mean, my
28:13
my gut has been good, but they've kind of give me an update.
28:16
my gut has been good, but they've kind of give me an update.
28:17
I mean, I had a probably a few months ago where
28:19
I mean, I had a probably a few months ago where
28:19
actually I've got my gallbladder removed because there was like a gallstone.
28:23
And then I was thinking the worst, like, oh, is this something else?
28:25
And then I was thinking the worst, like, oh, is this something else?
28:26
And as you, as you would.
28:28
And they were like, no, don't worry that it's fine.
28:29
We'll get it sorted.
28:30
so yeah, I think really struggle with the whole scan anxiety thing.
28:40
So what about social situations?
28:42
Work. do you work?
28:44
if so, how have you managed just working.
28:45
yeah. I mean, is there anything that.
28:46
Yeah, I think that's sums it up. No. You're fine.
28:47
Yeah.
28:47
No, I mean, for me, I'm not I'm not working and I'm my son's carer.
28:47
No, I mean, for me, I'm not I'm not working and I'm my son's carer.
28:50
So for me it's about sort of looking off him
28:51
So for me it's about sort of looking off him
28:53
but at the same time and trying to recover myself.
28:55
So yeah.
28:55
So yeah.
28:55
So I have to say I did used to have a really good job in the city.
28:58
I loved my job, I love the people that I worked with,
29:00
but I think sort of looking back, I kind of missed that adult conversation
29:01
but I think sort of looking back, I kind of missed that adult conversation
29:05
in a way that,
29:05
sort of my work friends
29:07
and stuff, but sort of going going forwards.
29:07
and stuff, but sort of going going forwards.
29:08
and stuff, but sort of going going forwards.
29:10
I do.
29:10
I used to go out quite a lot with my friends at work, and we'd have drinks
29:12
I used to go out quite a lot with my friends at work, and we'd have drinks
29:13
I used to go out quite a lot with my friends at work, and we'd have drinks
29:13
after what might be, or dinner or whatever it might be, or cinema
29:17
and obviously being a mum anyway, you do lose that kind of going out
29:20
with your friends as more like, not as much as you used to.
29:21
with your friends as more like, not as much as you used to.
29:24
but for me it's more the I really worry and struggle with.
29:28
So when I'm going somewhere, if, if I don't know where I'm going,
29:29
So when I'm going somewhere, if, if I don't know where I'm going,
29:31
it sounds like a sort of, panic really about the situation, too.
29:32
it sounds like a sort of, panic really about the situation, too.
29:34
it sounds like a sort of, panic really about the situation, too.
29:34
It's going to be too dark, like cinema. I'm not aware I can't get out.
29:37
I might have to go with, obviously, like a family member or a friend
29:38
I might have to go with, obviously, like a family member or a friend
29:39
I might have to go with, obviously, like a family member or a friend
29:40
that I know is going to be okay to come with me.
29:43
Or if we go into a restaurant and the lighting's really dark,
29:43
Or if we go into a restaurant and the lighting's really dark,
29:46
and I actually went to a family party, it was in a bar, and it was
29:47
and I actually went to a family party, it was in a bar, and it was
29:50
sort of it's more on the staircase.
29:52
And I was thinking, could means that I've got to really think about
29:53
And I was thinking, could means that I've got to really think about
29:55
where I'm going, because if I don't, I'm going to fall over.
29:58
I'm going to really embarrass myself or I'm going to hurt myself.
30:00
I'm going to really embarrass myself or I'm going to hurt myself.
30:01
and I think as well, for me, it's more like years ago,
30:02
and I think as well, for me, it's more like years ago,
30:05
I just wouldn't think to wear my glasses cause I never wore glasses.
30:07
and even when I'm out and about in a bar, I need my glasses.
30:11
If I didn't have my glasses, I can't protect my good eye.
30:13
and it's just.
30:13
Yeah, but it's an anxiety in itself.
30:15
Like social situations, I find.
30:17
I find really that I'm like, oh, no, we're busy or stuff.
30:20
I find really that I'm like, oh, no, we're busy or stuff.
30:20
I kind of make an excuses
30:21
I kind of make an excuses
30:21
and I don't really want to do that because obviously I don't want cancer
30:23
and I don't really want to do that because obviously I don't want cancer
30:24
to beat me in that sense
30:26
that it's not going to take away my freedom and my confidence,
30:27
that it's not going to take away my freedom and my confidence,
30:29
but it kind of has a bit like it's that whole life after cancer.
30:31
Like you do feel vulnerable in a way, that you
30:32
Like you do feel vulnerable in a way, that you
30:34
Like you do feel vulnerable in a way, that you
30:35
that you can't do what you used to do before and sort of okay, at least.
30:38
that you can't do what you used to do before and sort of okay, at least.
30:38
that you can't do what you used to do before and sort of okay, at least.
30:39
Yeah, it's really panicky that I was like, so,
30:41
so so make sure way that will work out that way.
30:42
so so make sure way that will work out that way.
30:43
What is or where the
30:45
media sitting refuses to go and talk to somebody at the table.
30:47
media sitting refuses to go and talk to somebody at the table.
30:47
He's over there beside them is can't see.
30:48
He's over there beside them is can't see.
30:51
So yeah, it's quite, quite daunting really when you.
30:51
So yeah, it's quite, quite daunting really when you.
30:54
Yeah I think.
30:55
Well, and I know with children like with little children.
30:56
Well, and I know with children like with little children.
30:56
Who I mean one that when you know.
30:57
Who I mean one that when you know.
30:59
So what do you do like.
30:59
So what do you do like.
31:01
It's like you people are like, do you have eyes on the kids?
31:01
And it's like, well, I got one of you.
31:02
And it's like, well, I got one of you.
31:02
And it's like, well, I got one of you.
31:03
That is the only one.
31:04
That is the only one.
31:04
The only one is on them. Yeah.
31:05
The only one is on them. Yeah.
31:06
and it always makes me feel better when I go out to have
31:06
either not have my children with me if I'm running an errand or to
31:07
Like you said, you have a friend, you need it.
31:09
It is reassuring.
31:09
It helps reduce that social anxiety and just yeah, it's it's
31:10
just an added layer of anxiety that we have to learn to navigate.
31:10
And like you said, like it's a it's a vulnerability and.
31:10
And like you said, like it's a it's a vulnerability and.
31:11
It really is.
31:12
But I feel like I feel like anyone who goes through this during pregnancy
31:15
and also the postpartum period, like it's enough to be a newly
31:20
like postpartum mom, let alone be pregnant and go through cancer treatment and know
31:23
like postpartum mom, let alone be pregnant and go through cancer treatment and know
31:23
that you know now that there's more coming and to have all of that unknown.
31:23
and you're now almost five years into this and you're still a very positive person.
31:24
And I think that that shows.
31:24
And I don't doubt that your children see that and are learning from that.
31:24
Thank you. Thank you very much. Like my
31:26
Yeah, I would say
31:27
Yeah, I would say
31:28
Yeah, I would say
31:28
you've just got
31:28
so you've got to just go with it.
31:30
You've got to kind of just think about, okay, this is the situation.
31:33
This is what's happening.
31:35
This is what's happening.
31:35
It's rubbish. It's not fair.
31:36
It's it's not, it's not right.
31:37
It's it's not, it's not right.
31:38
It's it's not, it's not right.
31:38
But what can I do?
31:40
What can we.
31:40
And look at every single possible avenue that you can go down,
31:43
whether that's from a holistic point of view,
31:45
whether that's from a normal medicine point of view.
31:48
But look at your options.
31:49
And if you feel yourself that something isn't right, or
31:52
you feel yourself that no matter how many times if you're pregnant,
31:53
you feel yourself that no matter how many times if you're pregnant,
31:55
you're going to do the same, some things may, no question is is silly.
31:57
you're going to do the same, some things may, no question is is silly.
31:59
Like you said, something's changed or something's not right.
32:01
So you have to go to a doctor.
32:02
So you have to go to a doctor.
32:03
So you have to go to a doctor.
32:03
Don't be fobbed off.
32:04
Don't be fobbed off.
32:04
Don't take no for an answer.
32:07
Don't take no for an answer.
32:07
And I just think you need to stay in the positive mindset,
32:11
because ultimately, I do think you're how you kind of
32:13
because ultimately, I do think you're how you kind of
32:14
deal with it and how you kind of whether that's, I don't know, like,
32:16
deal with it and how you kind of whether that's, I don't know, like,
32:17
I mean, I've got my little book, but whether you write down how you feel you
32:20
or whether you have a copy of a friend and you just sort of offload
32:24
everything onto to them in the, in the sense of kind of ask
32:25
everything onto to them in the, in the sense of kind of ask
32:27
everything onto to them in the, in the sense of kind of ask
32:28
everything onto to them in the, in the sense of kind of ask
32:28
for their thoughts or whatever it might be.
32:30
for their thoughts or whatever it might be.
32:31
But you've kind of just got to to sort of
32:33
But you've kind of just got to to sort of
32:34
just, yeah, just
32:35
just, yeah, just
32:35
be you and do what you feel is right for you and your baby.
32:39
And so it's not really sort of the ones that you think
32:39
And so it's not really sort of the ones that you think
32:40
And so it's not really sort of the ones that you think
32:42
in the sense of the ones that you think are going to be there aren't always there.
32:44
in the sense of the ones that you think are going to be there aren't always there.
32:45
So those that are open to helping you
32:45
So those that are open to helping you
32:48
take that in, take that help, take that advice, take that support.
32:51
I mean, do you look for different charities that have opened that help?
32:54
I mean, I didn't even know about Mummy Star
32:56
until I opened up about to school, mum actually,
32:56
until I opened up about to school, mum actually,
32:59
about what I was going through, and I just burst into tears.
33:01
I was like, oh, this has happened to me. I don't know what I'm going to do.
33:03
And then she kind of said, I want I think we know her at the time.
33:04
And then she kind of said, I want I think we know her at the time.
33:06
And she said, have you heard of mummy stuff?
33:07
And she said, have you heard of mummy stuff?
33:08
And I was like, no.
33:09
And she said, honestly, please bring them.
33:12
she found she came back to school the next day, so
33:14
and she found the number and she found with the website, we said, there you go.
33:18
Here's here's this charity.
33:19
There really are there to help support
33:21
mums that are going through pregnancy treatment.
33:22
Mums and I think they tend to take whilst pregnant and
33:23
Mums and I think they tend to take whilst pregnant and
33:25
Mums and I think they tend to take whilst pregnant and
33:26
I actually found that it just was like her weight lifted off my shoulder shoulders.
33:29
This I think a problem.
33:29
Share the problems that like someone's baby and she kind of.
33:32
Share the problems that like someone's baby and she kind of.
33:33
Yeah I mean without that I think without that charity and without that
33:36
support network and friends and family, I think you kind of just need to do it.
33:37
support network and friends and family, I think you kind of just need to do it.
33:38
support network and friends and family, I think you kind of just need to do it.
33:39
support network and friends and family, I think you kind of just need to do it.
33:40
Yeah.
33:41
Just stay positive and don't think of the what ifs exist.
33:42
Just stay positive and don't think of the what ifs exist.
33:44
Just stay positive and don't think of the what ifs exist.
33:44
Had been down, but don't think there's a lot of just think of that, okay?
33:46
This is a situation.
33:47
This is a situation.
33:47
What what now kind of thing.
33:48
What what now kind of thing.
33:49
like. Yeah.
33:50
Like stay present. Yes.
33:52
I present each day step by step.
33:53
I present each day step by step.
33:53
And do you know what?
33:54
And do you know what?
33:54
If you've had a rubbish day,
33:56
If you've had a rubbish day,
33:56
even if you've got out of bed, because it's times
33:58
when we don't want to go out there, we feel really rubbish.
33:58
when we don't want to go out there, we feel really rubbish.
33:59
when we don't want to go out there, we feel really rubbish.
33:59
You can just go outside, make yourself a cup of tea.
34:02
Might still be in your pajamas.
34:03
You might want to just watch TV for an hour, something, not do anything.
34:05
You might want to just watch TV for an hour, something, not do anything.
34:07
the chair itself.
34:07
You've got up. You've made that choice to get up.
34:09
You've made that choice to go and have a cup of tea.
34:11
You've made it to sit in your pajamas.
34:12
You've made it to sit in your pajamas.
34:13
But you're that your present.
34:14
You're you're focusing on you and being there for your family.
34:14
You're you're focusing on you and being there for your family.
34:16
You're you're focusing on you and being there for your family.
34:18
So that's. Yeah.
34:19
I don't know if that's good advice.
34:19
I don't know if that's good advice.
34:20
No, I feel like that makes sense.
34:21
No, I feel like that makes sense.
34:21
What I'm what I'm hearing is, is stay present
34:22
and find the things you can control.
34:22
and find the things you can control.
34:22
Yes. And find ways to be grateful
34:23
and find just find the little things that you can focus on that help
34:23
and find just find the little things that you can focus on that help
34:24
you feel a little more positive or just a little more able to cope.
34:24
you feel a little more positive or just a little more able to cope.
34:24
you feel a little more positive or just a little more able to cope.
34:25
Yeah. That's it.
34:26
And I do think as well, like I love music, so for me, a lot of songs
34:27
And I do think as well, like I love music, so for me, a lot of songs
34:30
that I listen to and I'm not oh, actually that really does make me up.
34:33
I'm, I was when she was born and it was summer at two.
34:35
I'm, I was when she was born and it was summer at two.
34:37
And so I've had a really slow down day, actually.
34:37
And so I've had a really slow down day, actually.
34:40
And I thought that was sort of pre having my treatment on
34:43
and on the radio came on that this was an just lovely day
34:44
and on the radio came on that this was an just lovely day
34:47
and it was really like the words that, that I'm listening to that
34:49
this is actually how I'm feeling right now.
34:51
And I do think sometimes song or books or whatever it might be, just find that
34:53
And I do think sometimes song or books or whatever it might be, just find that
34:55
connection that you have to take your mind off of the cancer, the treatment.
34:58
connection that you have to take your mind off of the cancer, the treatment.
34:59
Just think of something else.
35:01
It's yoga, I don't know.
35:02
Yeah.
35:03
So there's so many things like you said.
35:04
So there's so many things like you said.
35:04
So there's so many things like you said.
35:04
So for you personally, you mentioned the lovely Day by Luther Vandross.
35:05
So for you personally, you mentioned the lovely Day by Luther Vandross.
35:05
are there any other songs or just daily practices
35:06
are there any other songs or just daily practices
35:06
that you do yourself that you've found the most helpful?
35:06
Yeah, I as I say, I've got my little book that I kind of, when I'm having a
35:10
in the morning fasting.
35:11
When I get up, I always get up, have a coffee and just think like
35:14
I I'll say to myself, like, you've got the in the mirror.
35:14
I I'll say to myself, like, you've got the in the mirror.
35:16
I probably look like a crazy person, but I found the perfect place to in.
35:18
I probably look like a crazy person, but I found the perfect place to in.
35:20
But I mean the mirror.
35:20
Now you've got this, you've got today.
35:22
You're brave, you're strong.
35:24
You're brave, you're strong.
35:24
You can conquer anything, not just get on with it.
35:26
and that is kind of like my mantras I say.
35:28
And I just think sometimes when you say it out
35:30
loud, deeply, you do believe it and you do feel that you've got it.
35:34
And, I mean, I think people that I meet when I sort of,
35:34
And, I mean, I think people that I meet when I sort of,
35:36
went back
35:37
out to the school or whatever it might be, and they go, oh,
35:40
and I'll explain something like, what's going on?
35:42
Sorry. Five.
35:42
No, you, I can't see you go out the side and I don't think I'll be in front
35:44
No, you, I can't see you go out the side and I don't think I'll be in front
35:46
and back.
35:47
I would never in a million years
35:48
thought that you had and you had pneumonia because you seem quite positive.
35:49
thought that you had and you had pneumonia because you seem quite positive.
35:50
thought that you had and you had pneumonia because you seem quite positive.
35:52
You quite bubbly.
35:53
And I said, yeah, I am, but it is rubbish sometimes that we just have to
35:56
try and get on the best we can and do things the best way possible.
35:58
try and get on the best we can and do things the best way possible.
35:59
try and get on the best we can and do things the best way possible.
36:01
Maybe, it's a rubbish situation.
36:01
Maybe, it's a rubbish situation.
36:02
Yeah, exactly.
36:03
So anyone that. So,
36:04
So anyone that. So,
36:05
as far as those songs go that help you?
36:06
Like you mentioned.
36:06
And then I, I see two more.
36:07
And then I, I see two more.
36:07
Yeah. There's unstoppable.
36:09
Bisaya and, it's okay not to be okay by Marshmello.
36:10
Bisaya and, it's okay not to be okay by Marshmello.
36:11
And, for me, the boss I think is.
36:12
And, for me, the boss I think is.
36:13
I think that title right there just sums it right up.
36:14
Yes. It's, you know, you've got to be positive.
36:14
Yes. It's, you know, you've got to be positive.
36:14
You've got to get up and just kind of face the day with the whole like.
36:15
You've got to get up and just kind of face the day with the whole like.
36:15
And sometimes it's trash and sometimes you just,
36:16
And sometimes it's trash and sometimes you just,
36:17
And sometimes it's trash and sometimes you just,
36:18
you just you just get up and you're awake.
36:20
Like, sometimes it's just kind of you just survived.
36:20
Like, sometimes it's just kind of you just survived.
36:21
You survived, and that's a win. Yeah.
36:22
especially dealing with, you
36:22
know, as a young mom, I know, I know that better than than some, Okay.
36:23
know, as a young mom, I know, I know that better than than some, Okay.
36:23
know, as a young mom, I know, I know that better than than some, Okay.
36:24
You mentioned books.
36:24
do you, do you find, like prayer or meditation to be helpful?
36:24
do you, do you find, like prayer or meditation to be helpful?
36:25
I really do find peace in prayer.
36:27
Like, I, I'm a Christian, and I find that that kind of helps me
36:28
Like, I, I'm a Christian, and I find that that kind of helps me
36:31
sort of feel a bit more grounded and it kind of just makes me.
36:33
sort of feel a bit more grounded and it kind of just makes me.
36:34
sort of feel a bit more grounded and it kind of just makes me.
36:34
So yeah, it just makes for that.
36:35
I'm I'm sharing how I'm feeling and with somebody that
36:36
I'm I'm sharing how I'm feeling and with somebody that
36:38
I'm I'm sharing how I'm feeling and with somebody that
36:39
I'm I'm sharing how I'm feeling and with somebody that
36:39
that understands and, and there's no judgment.
36:41
that understands and, and there's no judgment.
36:42
So I've that is how I kind of find my pacing for it.
36:44
Yeah. So I do, I do press yeah.
36:46
Yeah. So I do, I do press yeah.
36:46
I mean it's just like I say like the song
36:48
that the combination of, I think maybe, yeah.
36:49
that the combination of, I think maybe, yeah.
36:51
Yeah.
36:51
And one of the things
36:51
that you mentioned as well was flowers, and I love what you wrote.
36:52
You said I treat myself.
36:53
I, you said I treat myself to flowers once a week to brighten it.
36:53
Like, brighten my day at home.
36:54
Like, just to give yourself that gift of beauty
36:54
and something that makes you feel good.
36:54
I think we all need to be.
36:56
Yeah.
36:56
There's studies that show that if it's just to simplify,
36:58
to beautify your place, that it actually does
37:01
that the sense of the smell, the aroma, it does actually lift your mood.
37:03
So that's my little my little thing.
37:06
I do to make me feel a bit better about when I'm having a rubbish week.
37:08
All right.
37:08
So Amy, as we conclude this interview and you sharing your story,
37:11
can you just tell us is there any final advice
37:14
you would give to the OMIES listening
37:15
and the caregivers just to help them on their journey?
37:18
Yeah, I mean, my advice would be to fellow OMIES means go buy yourself some flowers.
37:21
Yeah, I mean, my advice would be to fellow OMIES means go buy yourself some flowers.
37:23
buy yourself a daily book of gratitude, sit back, get yourself a nice hot
37:27
drink or a cold drink and just listen to some Luther Vandross lovely day.
37:29
drink or a cold drink and just listen to some Luther Vandross lovely day.
37:32
I mean, I remember every
37:33
take away from yourself and
37:35
belief that you can focus on the positives and less on the negatives.
37:38
I know it's easier said than done.
37:40
but your outlook and perspective of your new
37:42
sort of life and then new journey will really start to flourish.
37:45
so I yeah, I hope you have a lovely day.
37:47
Thank you for being a guest and sharing your journey.
37:47
And until next time, take care and stay well.
37:48
Thank you for having me.