Latest / Women Disrupting Tech / Arosha Brouwer on Scaling Workplace Wellbeing with Impact and Integrity | Ep 122

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Arosha Brouwer on Scaling Workplace Wellbeing with Impact and Integrity | Ep 122 · Women Disrupting Tech

0:10
Welcome to Women disrupting Tech.
0:13
My name is Dear Kanupkas, and on this podcast I give the women
0:16
who work in tech the platform they need to.
0:19
Inspire and empower each other. Join me on a journey into the
0:23
world of entrepreneurship, funding biases, and role models
0:28
to discover the strategies for success in the tech industry.
0:32
In other words, how women can disrupt tech.
0:36
Are you ready to listen? Hey, welcome back to Women
0:45
Disrupting Tech and thank you for tuning in to Episode 122.
0:51
You probably know that scaling your company too soon can weaken
0:55
your mission and your product. But did you know that sometimes
0:59
scaling is not even done by adding more features or people?
1:04
Meet Arocha Brauer, she is the Co founder of Guan and now also
1:09
the Chief Impact Officer at True Tribe.
1:12
You may have heard her before on episode 3 and 49 sharing her
1:16
founder journey and in this episode she returns to share how
1:20
exiting to True Tribe helped her skill the impact of Guan's
1:24
workplace well-being solution. In this episode of Women
1:28
Disrupting Tech, Arocha shares three important learnings from
1:32
her female founder journey. First, you'll learn why scaling
1:36
to become an end to end solution was never the right way to grow
1:40
for Guam. Second, you'll discover how she
1:44
preserved the mission and the impact of the solution she had
1:47
built. And 3rd, you'll hear what
1:50
expectations came with getting a platform and funding.
1:53
As a female founder. My take away from the episode
1:57
and exit is not the end of the story.
2:00
It's a great way to continue your legacy.
2:03
So when you're ready to listen and learn how Arosa skilled work
2:07
based well-being with impact and integrity, please welcome back
2:11
to women disrupting tech Arosa Brauer.
2:15
So Arosa Brauer, welcome back to women disrupting tech.
2:19
Welcome for your to your first. Yeah, it's first episode.
2:24
We're having you so good to have you.
2:27
So tell us all about your new position at True Tribe, as in
2:33
Chief Impact Officer. Thank you.
2:36
Thanks Dirkian, for inviting me back.
2:39
I always enjoy our conversations both on the podcast and off the
2:42
podcast. Yes, it's a, it's a new world.
2:47
My new role as chief impact officer at True Tribe.
2:50
It's really close to, I think why I commenced this journey or
2:56
the journey behind Kwan because it always was a bad impact.
3:00
And when Micah and I first discussed what the title could
3:05
be, it came down to, you know, Arosa, tell me what, what do you
3:12
want to do with your time? You know, what would you ideally
3:15
like to do going forward? And I said to her, you know,
3:19
it's always been about impact for me.
3:21
It's always been about solving a real problem, suggesting the
3:25
most relevant interventions to people and then being able to
3:29
measure if it's working or not. And you know, this is a societal
3:34
problem that we've undertaken to solve.
3:37
And for me, it's about whether or not the solution that we've
3:41
brought to market is working. And she said, well, that's
3:44
simple then should we not have you as a chief impact officer?
3:49
Well, that's Yeah. It's also cool that she ask you
3:54
what you want to do to do with your time, that she wanted you
3:58
on the team no matter what, and I think that's also a really
4:03
powerful testament to who you are and what you've built with
4:07
Qualm. Yes, but I would, I would, I
4:10
would also add to that, I think it's also a testament to who
4:13
Micah is. And I, I do believe she, she's,
4:19
she's known Lucy and I for a while.
4:22
She's been following the Quan story for a while and vice
4:27
versa. And I think founders are
4:30
typically stubborn. We don't typically like to take
4:33
direction from people. But this is someone that I've
4:38
deeply respected based on the journey that she's been on in
4:42
the past with message Bird, but also her why behind Trutribe?
4:48
It's, it's, it's very similar to mine, which is we're really
4:52
trying to crack the code of well-being and, and, and making
4:55
it work in the workplace. OK.
4:57
Well then that's sort of a natural match because may be
5:01
good to do rewind a bit. If I remember correctly, you
5:06
already worked with Jorge von Dzac that two tribe is
5:13
affiliated with or part of. Yes, correct.
5:16
So Zorg finders arc is now known as the Colby network.
5:20
So it's means collective betterment and it's it's super
5:25
nice because it's it's made-up of a collection of different
5:28
types of service providers. Geordie service, not software
5:33
are in the occupational health domains.
5:35
So very, you know, there's labels which are focused on
5:41
coaching and providing clinical therapy.
5:45
There are company doctors, there's various levels of
5:50
leadership training and all these topics are related to
5:55
sustainable workplaces and true tribe.
5:59
So when we when we started our partnership, it was literally as
6:03
a software partner just to because there were busy thinking
6:08
about, you know, what are the different types of digital
6:12
solutions they can bring into the market to complement the
6:17
service offerings. And through that journey, True
6:22
Tribe was formed which is an entity of the Colby Network.
6:27
And it is essentially an end to end well-being platform, which
6:34
has various components to it. So employee assistance programs,
6:40
analytics, the marketplace of various providers, whether it's
6:48
solutions such as therapy, clinical therapy, coaching, but
6:53
we're going to be bringing on other solutions as well.
6:57
And so it's it's got various components to it.
6:59
And this is, if you can think of it like the digital layer to
7:03
what's essentially being services.
7:07
Yeah. And it's also taking, if I hear
7:10
you correctly, a lot of services that are now traditionally
7:17
offline, like therapy into the online world, but also bring
7:22
them straight into the, let's say, occupational health domain.
7:30
Yes, yeah, exactly. And one of the things that I
7:34
failed to mention, but is a very, very important point when
7:37
we think about the true drive offering is absence management,
7:43
but using historical data to predict what might be happening
7:47
in a workplace and thereby being better placed to offer
7:52
interventions to reduce that. So that's predicting things like
7:57
attrition, acting things like long term sick.
8:03
Yeah, that's kind of fun. Sickness, absenteeism, long term
8:06
absenteeism. Exactly.
8:08
And, and, and this is really interesting because if we rewind
8:12
and think back to Quan, Quan essentially had built a very
8:18
specific team solution and we are able to identify at a deeper
8:24
level what might be happening in a team and suggesting
8:27
interventions to improve things that are happening in the team.
8:31
Now by joining forces with True Tribe, True Tribe is able to see
8:36
historical data on absentees and sickness.
8:39
But also based on that, I think it's an 85% accuracy predict
8:44
what might be happening in teams in the future.
8:46
And therefore solutions such as the quant team solution can be
8:50
suggested by OK, this particular department or this team is at
8:55
risk. Therefore we suggest XYZ and and
8:59
that is why I think this is a really strong end to end
9:03
proposition. OK.
9:04
So it's it's would it be then fair to say that the Quan is a
9:09
service that then would be distributed through through
9:12
tribe? Correct.
9:14
Yes. OK, so because I was about to
9:16
ask how how does Quan fit into the philosophy and service world
9:21
of True Tribe? But that's basically what it's.
9:25
So it starts with True Tribe signaling.
9:29
OK, there's something itchy going wrong in your team.
9:34
Start monitoring with Quan software or with the solution of
9:39
Quan. So does Quan as a as a app name
9:43
or as a as a company name, does it remain out there or does it
9:48
now become a brand of true trial?
9:50
Yeah. So I mean, for the first year,
9:52
you'll still will still reference Quan, but the idea is
9:56
that true tribe basically takes what it needs from Quan and
10:01
builds builds out further. But I think there's two things
10:06
from Kwan which are now in the foundations of true tribe.
10:11
One is our scientific framework, which has has now been validated
10:15
by kings and and that was like one of the most cool things that
10:21
were important as part of their position because we've done this
10:24
detailed study of what is well-being all these underlying
10:27
predictors and that's now validated.
10:29
And so you can't do any kind of matching without having a like
10:34
proper framework. So that's the first part.
10:36
And then the second thing is that team retro or the team
10:40
solution, which is actually just one intervention.
10:43
So you can think of the the core piece being the framework and
10:46
the algorithms around that. And the second thing being an
10:49
inbuilt team solution, which is a digital solution that can
10:52
scale very quickly. Cool.
10:56
So how how was this whole process?
11:01
How did it work? So at some point you start
11:04
working with short phone Zack, how to Kobe network and how does
11:09
that evolve to what I think is an acquisition?
11:15
Yeah, yeah. And this is, you know, we've, I
11:18
don't know if we've talked, I think we did talk about this in
11:20
our last podcast, which is it's not just what you know, but it's
11:24
who you know. And you know, obviously in over
11:28
the last year, I've talked to a lot of people around
11:30
acquisitions and, you know, mergers and all sorts.
11:34
And what I've really come to learn about acquisitions is it
11:39
is about who you know, and especially if you're an impact
11:42
founder, you don't just sell your company, you know, you,
11:47
you, you really do it for a reason.
11:50
And in our case, it was about scale.
11:53
And it was super important for us to, to align ourselves with a
11:58
company that had the same mission as us.
12:00
That was like that is that is the most important thing for
12:03
Lucy and I. It's five years of super hard
12:06
work. It's our legacy.
12:08
And it's not just Lucy and I, but also everybody else that's
12:11
been involved. And we've been talking a lot in
12:15
the market about well-being and being able to measure it.
12:18
And so and the importance of that and the market really
12:22
responded to that, that you know, we we got a lot of media
12:26
coverage for that. And so we felt that we needed to
12:30
find a way to continue that message and only with a company
12:36
that had the distribution reached but was 100% aligned.
12:39
And so as part of the collaboration with
12:42
Zorgfundazaki, then named Zorgfundazak, it was very, very
12:48
clear that within this network, health and well-being is a
12:55
priority. It's, it's, it's seen in, in all
12:58
the activities and events that they do.
13:00
It's seen in the messaging. If I look at the individual
13:05
labels of the Kobe network, the directors typically have, you
13:10
know, 2025 years experience in mental health, various doctors.
13:15
And there's actually one lady who runs I Mind Life that's
13:20
studied theology. She was a priest.
13:23
So I find myself surrounded by super smart, purpose LED people
13:29
that truly prioritize health and well-being.
13:32
And then, you know, of course there's a there's a, the range
13:35
of doctors and, and so this commitment to the topic and
13:40
science was for me and Lucy, incredibly important.
13:47
And that was the first thing we need to establish before
13:50
thinking about do we want to be part of this network, right?
13:56
And so the conversation, right, acquisition probably started
14:02
about a year ago and then serious steps started probably
14:07
in December, January, I'd say. So it's quite far, six months,
14:13
but it was getting to know each other, understanding what we
14:18
wanted to do independently. I mean, it was like, what does
14:22
True Tribe want to do? What does Kwan want to do?
14:25
What does Lucy want to do? What does the Roche want to do?
14:27
What does Mike want to do? You know, So we had all these
14:30
layered conversations and we took the time to really
14:34
understand all of that and obviously involve our investors
14:39
in those conversations and we had huge support.
14:44
I have to really thank my investors for thinking along and
14:51
being super cool. Can you give an example of
14:54
thinking along? Yeah.
14:56
I mean, when the question of, OK, who would we want to partner
15:00
with Kmart, it's, you know, very clear with this makes sense for
15:05
us For these reasons. And there are certain types of
15:11
pathways we weren't willing to take and there was no question
15:17
about that. And our investors have trusted
15:22
the decisions we've made. And I'd like to believe that
15:28
it's because of the integrity that we've demonstrated for the
15:32
last five years. And so it's with transparency
15:37
and integrity and respect that we've had conversations, they've
15:41
helped on various aspects, whether it's reviewing documents
15:45
or just asking us questions to understand the deal better,
15:49
right? But it was it always came from a
15:52
place of how do we ensure the mission of Quan is prioritized?
15:57
And how do we ensure that you as founders, but also your team
16:02
have what you need? And that that for me, as as as
16:07
left a really warm and fuzzy feeling.
16:10
Yeah, now I can imagine. Right.
16:12
Which not which not every exited founder can attest to.
16:16
No, no, I mean, it's really powerful if you can go into a
16:21
process from a place of OK, we just trust the the outcome
16:26
because we trust people because essentially that's what I'm
16:30
hearing you say, right? A. 100% And I mean, of course
16:33
there were questions and we've had many conversations, but I
16:39
don't think that was ever a question mark.
16:42
I and I was certainly not made to feel that way.
16:44
And so for that, I need to thank my investors.
16:49
Yeah, So what, just let's just rewind a tiny bit because I was
16:54
wondering what at what point did you become convinced?
16:59
Like, OK, if we want to prolong the life of Guam, we need to go
17:05
the acquisition route and not the independent route.
17:08
So what triggered that? I think about two years ago when
17:14
the market started to shift, we started to see a difference in
17:19
the appetite of our previous buyers.
17:24
Now luckily for us, we already had a proven solution.
17:27
We, we had a net revenue retentions of 120% and we had a
17:31
few big logos which are expanding.
17:33
So we knew what we feel was working.
17:36
But the question is, is how do we now replicate it?
17:41
And it was becoming increasingly harder for us to, I mean, what
17:48
we, what we'd learned was that we'd feel a very, very unique
17:52
deep solution, but it was not an end to end stand alone.
17:59
And so we need to be part of something, right?
18:02
And so we spent about a year investigating what are the
18:05
various options to be part of something?
18:07
What would be a, want to be part of and B, what are the, what are
18:10
our options? And then what we learned was,
18:13
yes, the market was ready for that, but not so much in a
18:19
partnership, but more of a merger or an acquisition.
18:23
And so the conversations we were having with those companies was
18:27
in that flavor. So you know, the question is, is
18:32
do you want to raise more money, maintain ownership and try and
18:37
build this thing yourself or do you start to look at M&A options
18:41
and what what are you going to look at?
18:44
And so loose and I again is this sounds terrible, but I emailed
18:50
this to one of our investors the other day.
18:51
It was never about ownership. It was always about impact.
18:55
And you know, we've always said that we're a movement dressed up
19:00
as self. And so for us, it didn't really
19:05
matter from an M and a perspective.
19:08
What we knew was if we'd done the independent route, the
19:10
chance of failure was much, much higher.
19:14
And everything we've built and what we stand for is way more
19:18
important than that. And so we started to look at M&A
19:21
and what that entails and having serious conversations with
19:25
potentials. OK, so at some point you found
19:28
out that let's say the appetite to or that there was a fit, but
19:36
it wasn't a full with fit, let's say so and not end to end, yes.
19:43
Then what triggered you to decide, OK, let's go for the
19:48
acquisition round and not build the the the built in end to end
19:53
solution. I mean, it's very simple, right?
19:56
I mean, to build something like that out can, can be very, very
20:00
expensive. It's riddled with uncertainty.
20:04
It's going to take a lot more time and a lot more money and
20:07
so. And, and I'm not talking about a
20:10
difference of a million or two. This is like upwards of of five
20:13
to 10 million, right? Because you don't, you don't
20:16
just build an NTN platform, you also have to build your NTN
20:20
sales and marketing channel, right?
20:22
And so, so that's what we're up against.
20:25
But I think it's, I think it's important also for me to mention
20:31
what the solution we built does, right?
20:34
And we did a really interesting exercise, you can call it a
20:40
customer research, but also prospect research about a year
20:44
and a half ago. And what we discovered is that
20:48
Quan is a little bit like a a super tool at your dentist.
20:55
And what I mean by that is we are good at identifying teams or
21:03
areas where things might not be going well and then being able
21:08
to fact find what actually is happening and then involve the
21:11
leader and the team to fix it. Right.
21:14
So let's let's use the analogy of a dentist.
21:18
If I'm to e-mail you, you're just sitting there behind your
21:22
laptop and you receive an e-mail from someone saying, hey,
21:26
Jerkyan, do you have a pain in your in the backside of your
21:32
molars, like top, top left? Does that hurt?
21:36
Is there something wrong with your mouth?
21:39
You're probably wondering who the hell is this and why are
21:44
they emailing me, right? If you go to the dentist and
21:48
they're looking at your teeth and they say, hey, we've seen a
21:52
problem here, but I've got a solution which I can use and the
21:57
pain will go away. It'll fix the problem.
22:00
Were you going to trust that cold outbound e-mail or your
22:03
dentist? Yeah, probably the dentist in
22:06
this case. Exactly.
22:08
So Quan Quan being that specialist tool for that
22:11
specific problem needs to be in the hands of a dentist, right?
22:16
And that's, and, and The thing is, is we as founders, we're not
22:21
interested in building the, the, the, the dentist studio or
22:25
whatever they call it, right. And then like outfitting the
22:27
dent, we were, we were solving that problem, right.
22:31
We're happy to solve. Well, we didn't care about
22:34
fixing people's crooked teeth and everything else around it,
22:36
right? And and and.
22:38
You were there. Let's say the X-ray that
22:40
identifies the the the exactly. Exactly.
22:43
And so we, we discovered that this is the problem we solved
22:46
well, and this is what we're really interested in.
22:49
And in order for us to outfit the whole thing, it'll cost us a
22:53
hell of a lot more and take us a lot of time, but it also takes
22:57
us from the initial thing that we wanted to do.
23:00
And and so we're at this juncture where we need to
23:03
decide, is this, is this the path or are we just going to
23:06
double down? And so the option to double down
23:09
and have be part of a company which will have the resources to
23:13
do the rest, it's hugely appealing.
23:15
And the reason why this acquisition made a lot of sense
23:18
because we also recognize the need for other services.
23:23
It's just that we were focused on one thing and now?
23:27
As A and also you were focused on one specific, being good at
23:32
something very specific, but also at the impact you were
23:35
creating as a result. Well, I mean was it 80% of the
23:40
teams like super high where we ended up, it was 90% of the
23:45
teams improved their sub dimensions by an average of I
23:50
don't even know that 3040% within 12 weeks.
23:52
It was like crazy how it was working, you know, so and, and
23:56
for us, we were high fiving each other because it was working and
24:00
on so we didn't want to water that down.
24:03
Now I understand if something is working, you want to keep it
24:09
working and also improve that part that you're really good at,
24:12
yeah. And, and when you have a certain
24:16
size of team or resources, you know, one thing that we learned,
24:20
I don't know if it was from YC, but you know, just along the
24:23
journey as a startup or a scale up smaller company, right?
24:27
Less than 20 people, you can't do everything, right?
24:33
So if you're not focused, you could die in the process.
24:37
You just, and so for us, it was about what do we focus on?
24:41
What do we want to double down on?
24:43
And this is, this is, this is ultimately what it was.
24:46
Yeah. And how do you preserve your
24:49
legacy? And that's by key, by staying
24:51
alive and then becoming part part of a bigger organization
24:57
that that solves the end to end problem.
25:00
The end exactly that solves the end to end and then all of our
25:05
knowledge. And I think this is what was
25:06
also interesting for the Colby Network or for True Tribe
25:10
specifically is the knowledge and insights that we bring from
25:15
five years being in the market and building in the market.
25:17
Because it's not that we haven't noticed what's happening on the
25:21
periphery. On the contrary, we've seen all
25:24
of the movements. And so we come in with a with a
25:27
real kind of view of, OK, these are really great players in the
25:31
market and this is what makes them good.
25:33
These are the things that we did not look at, but we think are
25:35
really interesting and and I think that makes also brings a
25:39
lot of value. What new opportunities arise for
25:43
Quan or for the software as a result of this acquisition?
25:49
It's very clear distribution and reach, yeah, I mean.
25:53
But also larger organizations than you've been able to service
25:56
so far. Yeah, Yeah.
25:58
I mean that they will come in, in the next few months as we're
26:02
sort of deep into the integration now, but it's just
26:05
the, the, the brands and the, and the reach is just that much
26:09
bigger. You know, you can't go knocking
26:12
on the door of some of these big logos as a as a start up.
26:16
It's just, I mean, not to mention any names, but I was
26:19
talking to a bank. It's been more than a year and I
26:22
think we're getting finally ready to do a pilot, you know,
26:25
meanwhile, the acquisitions taken place, you know, all of
26:27
those relationships are already established here.
26:30
And so it's much easier for them to say, hey, we've got this
26:34
thing, shall we turn it on, you know, and that's infinitely
26:39
different. Yeah, absolutely.
26:42
The sales cycle is a lot shorter than also because you have
26:47
people on the floor that already have sputter problem and who
26:51
have already convinced the customer that they have the
26:54
issue so they might as well turn that on for.
26:59
We found our dentist. Yeah, I'll use that as a quote
27:03
we found. I love the analogy.
27:07
Maybe, maybe not so appealing for to most people, but in this
27:10
case it's very telling I think. Sense, right?
27:12
Yeah. So I want to shift gears a bit
27:17
because a while ago we discussed and I remember being in the in
27:23
the gallery and you told me something that really stuck with
27:28
me for a long, long time. And that is that you felt the
27:36
pressure to perform as a female founder of color.
27:42
Can you double click on that for me?
27:44
I think that, you know, we all know the statistics that it's
27:48
less than 2% of women founders that actually raise BC money in
27:53
Europe. And so Lucy and I are, you know,
28:00
the, what do you call it? The lucky?
28:04
I don't know. I don't like to use the word
28:06
lucky. I think we're just just part of
28:08
that that that. Let's call it a chosen 1.
28:11
Yeah, which is also not fair because there's plenty of
28:14
amazing founders out there, women found.
28:18
And what I was saying to you when we spoke was those of us
28:24
that have raised capital and or received media attention,
28:29
whether we speak about it publicly or not, we feel the
28:34
sense of responsibility to make our companies a success for the
28:40
sisters that come after us, right?
28:44
Because if it's already hard to raise you, you want more success
28:51
stories so that it's easier for those after us to raise.
28:57
And so when I was talking to you, I think it was gone back
29:02
almost a year and a half or maybe though times are tough,
29:06
it's tough times. I said to you to Jan Quan has to
29:10
succeed because we stand for more than just us.
29:16
And I mentioned this story and that's that's that's what I was
29:20
referring to. And I still stand by that.
29:22
You know, it may be, you know, and I remember like other
29:26
founders, even my investors saying you don't need to carry
29:30
that. That's not it's not your burden
29:34
to bear. And I'm like, yeah, but if all
29:35
of us think of that, then then what's left, right?
29:41
But if all of us do think like that.
29:43
Is that also part of the impact you were hoping to achieve?
29:48
I mean, when we started Kwan, we really did not think anything
29:51
about the plight of the woman founder.
29:53
That was never, but because we've raised from Joanna Invest
29:59
and her slab and enormous support that they've shown us,
30:03
because I've been on your podcast, because I've talked
30:07
about this topic in the media, I now feel that sense of
30:11
responsibility, right? And so I didn't understand much
30:15
of it before I started this whole thing.
30:17
And now I do. And now it's something that I
30:22
find very important, very important.
30:26
Yeah. So I was wondering, so because
30:30
you build a company Quan and at some point you end up being
30:38
acquired, how difficult was it to quote UN quote let go?
30:44
That was very easy because it was never about ownership and it
30:49
was always a movement. And something I think I
30:53
mentioned to you, I was pregnant when the idea of Quan came
30:57
about. And so I never felt that Quan
31:02
was my baby because I was actually growing a baby.
31:06
And when Quan came to fruition, there were so many people behind
31:12
it. I mean, there still are.
31:15
You know, we're talking about more than 40 different people
31:19
being part of the Quan journey as a team member.
31:22
We're talking about €3 million in investment from a number of
31:27
funds both in Europe and the US and each of those funds have
31:32
various people that have played a role.
31:36
All the legal advice, all the tax advice, our customers, our
31:40
suppliers. I mean this, this whole thing is
31:44
not just Lucy or me, It's not mine, right?
31:49
Our community, I think at its peak, more than 300 people in
31:52
there standing for it. Like saying this is really
31:56
important. It really is a movement, right?
31:59
So when the decision was, how do we ensure that she, because we
32:06
said that Juan was a, a female, a woman, not a woman, but a
32:12
female entity. She needs to succeed, right?
32:17
She needs to somehow or another find a way to continue the work
32:23
that she is capable of doing. It was a simple passing of the
32:27
baton and Lucy and I are honoured to be part of the
32:33
journey still. But we don't own it right.
32:38
We're a part of it, but to be honest, we're always like that.
32:41
Yeah. So that just out of curiosity
32:45
then how has, because in a moment ago we talked about the
32:50
pressure you felt as a female founder because you were able to
32:53
raise. How has that helped you build
32:58
Squam and go through the acquisition process?
33:02
Has that pushed you forward? Has that?
33:06
Yeah. I mean, no, I think when you're
33:10
I needed, I needed the the mission to continue, right?
33:16
And I needed there to be a story in the market which stated that
33:24
it is possible as a woman or woman of color, also
33:28
non-technical that has an idea that can help the world.
33:33
It is possible for her to start from zero, from Ground Zero with
33:38
no connections and no money to build something which is then
33:44
acquired by a larger company and where the mission is safeguarded
33:50
to impact hundreds and thousands of lives like it is possible.
33:55
I needed that story. I needed the story that you can
33:58
take an idea and bring it so far and improve people's lives and
34:03
not by 10s or hundreds, hundreds of thousands, if not millions.
34:07
That's I wanted to show that. And so if we had gone bankrupt,
34:12
the story would have ended, right.
34:15
But we did not. We were acquired where the
34:18
company's mission is 100% aligned to the acquiring company
34:22
and where Lucy is the chief product officer.
34:25
So the new product sits under her and I'm the chief impact
34:29
officer. So the measurement of how things
34:32
work and saying basically, I've, I'm saying that I continue as
34:37
the conscience of true tribe. It, it enables us to continue
34:43
our work. And so it is a success story and
34:48
it should then make others feel those that wake up with, I
34:54
really think this is a problem that we need to solve.
34:57
And I, I really want to be able to solve it.
35:00
It is possible for you to achieve that.
35:02
That was what I wanted to get at, right?
35:04
And I don't, I don't have that pressure of fearing, you know,
35:11
bankruptcy or, you know, all the stuff that founders go through,
35:18
right? I don't, I don't have those
35:20
pressures. No, not anymore now.
35:23
But I, that was a price that I was willing to pay for the last
35:26
five years. We face that, you know, you face
35:29
a lot and bankruptcy is just one of them.
35:31
Like you face a lot. But yeah, that was a price that
35:33
I was willing to pay. And ultimately, it's paid off.
35:37
Yeah, 100%. So if you would have to do it
35:42
all again, what would you do the same and what would you do
35:46
different? Let me first, let me just
35:49
rephrase that. Would you do VC the VC route
35:53
again? That's a good question.
35:54
I think the VC route, what's important to understand and why
35:59
see, makes it really, really clear they're trying to find the
36:03
companies that are unicorns that are going to be worth a billion
36:07
dollars or more, right? And recently I was speaking with
36:12
an Impact founder actually working on a solution for mental
36:15
health, and she will see about applying to YC.
36:19
But then she outlined a couple of the initial principles, one
36:23
of which you wanted to make it free and there's another one
36:28
which basically meant the monetization and business model
36:31
was going to be tough. And I my word of caution was not
36:34
to go through EC and there are so many other funding options if
36:40
you want to be a true social entrepreneur.
36:44
Now your question was would I want to go down the VC route
36:51
again Obviously I'm not thinking about founding anything anytime
36:56
soon. If I was to if if if I came
36:59
across an idea that you know satisfies a gap in the market
37:05
monetization is clear. I need a lot of money to build
37:08
it quickly and then this could be a billion dollar idea and you
37:13
know, we have the technical Co founder Yeah, sure.
37:18
BC root great. But if I want to focus on sort
37:25
of more social entrepreneurship impact and take my time and do
37:31
something differently and I still need a little bit of
37:33
capital, I might look more at grants or other funding
37:38
opportunities through like corporate social funds and
37:42
things like that and that that that would be different.
37:46
So it really depends on what I what problem I want to tackle
37:50
and the kind of solution I want to build.
37:52
I'm not going to talk bad about VCs, especially because when
37:59
push came to shove, VCs respected our decision.
38:03
But I think anyone that's thinking about taking VC money
38:08
really needs to think about what is it they're trying to build
38:11
and what is you know what, why do they think it's going to be a
38:14
billion dollar solution And it is capital.
38:18
Yeah. And and do you need the external
38:21
capital to build it or can you bootstrap it and?
38:24
Exactly, exactly. You know, and once you take VC
38:28
money, I mean, they have their own LP's, right?
38:33
They also fund. And so it's annoying when they
38:37
ask you for these quarterly or monthly reports, but they're
38:41
also trying to manage people, right?
38:42
And so it's a process. So I think we just need to
38:47
understand that. And that, again, was one of the
38:50
biggest lessons that Lucy and I learned from YC was how to have
38:53
healthy investor relations. And I feel that we did have
38:57
healthy investor relations. We didn't always agree, right?
39:00
OK, so so let's double click on that.
39:03
What is healthy? Healthy is just always with
39:06
respect and if you feel, and there'll be moments where I felt
39:12
disrespected, you know, but we, it was a healthy relationship
39:16
that I could bring that up and address it, you know, as I would
39:22
with my life partner, as I would with Lucy, as I would with my
39:25
team, you know. So I feel that it was a healthy
39:29
relationship because we had positive intent, open and
39:33
transparent communication, sometimes not as transparent as
39:37
I would have liked it, but in those moments, I could always
39:41
pick up the phone and have those conversations.
39:43
And we would have moments where things would sometimes get a
39:48
little heated, but you'd find you'd find your way back.
39:52
And I feel like the way that we've kind of concluded and
39:58
we're still continuing out has been super, super healthy
40:01
because, you know, the partners of these funds, the
40:05
conversations that I've had been hugely supportive.
40:09
And yeah, so I feel like those are healthy conversations and
40:12
that's that's a healthy relationship.
40:14
Yeah, I think so too. Yeah, yeah.
40:17
OK. So who were would it be fair to
40:21
call the investor? Investor state you worked with
40:25
allies? Yes, 100% yes.
40:28
OK, so who else were your allies on this journey?
40:32
We have all of our early customers, I would say anyone
40:37
that signed the contract and we have a legal team, always good
40:46
to have strong legal and tax advisors around you.
40:51
So they were our allies and we've had so many subject matter
40:58
experts along the journey that have come in to do various
41:04
sessions, whether it's go to market or whether it's product
41:07
related or whatever technical. So many people that have not
41:13
just had one coffee, but 1234 exited founders, founders and
41:19
then people like you Turkey on like you know, that have given
41:22
us stage time to tell our story. How important is that?
41:28
No, no, not to bang my own drama, but this is more more
41:31
like more in in general. How?
41:33
How important is that? Super important and I think what
41:37
comes next to that is the founders ability, at least one
41:40
of the founders abilities to tell that story.
41:43
And you know, Lucy doesn't talk a lot.
41:46
She builds, so I do most of the talking for both of us.
41:50
But if you had Lucy behind this podcast, I'd argue she'd do a
41:53
better job of answering the questions.
41:55
But at least one of them, and ideally the CEO is able to tell
42:00
that story because there's more than 9000 start-ups in the
42:05
Netherlands, but there's only a handful that get some kind of
42:10
spotlight. And you can argue that there's
42:13
a, there's a hell of a lot more that have great attraction, more
42:17
unique problem that aren't getting that.
42:21
And maybe because a they don't want it.
42:23
But those that would like it but don't get it might just come
42:26
down to do they know the right people to help get their story
42:30
across and are they able to articulate it well enough?
42:34
Just picking up on something you said, it's important to tell
42:37
your story. I recently had a guest on and
42:42
she said well for women that's much more difficult to do self
42:47
promo than it is for men. I see you not.
42:51
Do you agree were. I think there's I'm contrary to
42:54
that. I see a lot of women doing a lot
42:56
of self promotion on LinkedIn. Doesn't seem difficult for them
43:01
at all. Lucy and I always laugh at that,
43:05
but for for me over the last five years, it was very much
43:09
about getting the story of Kwan out there.
43:12
So not so much self promotion. And I think that's the
43:15
difference, right? You shouldn't be getting up
43:17
there to make your profile known.
43:19
You should be getting up there to further the mission of
43:22
whatever it is that you're. Standing to evangelize.
43:26
Exactly, exactly. Now it could be well-being.
43:29
It could be I know like there's another really good one
43:35
forgotten no else from the the sleep expert.
43:38
You know she she says so much valuable information and
43:42
insights relating to sleep. Yeah.
43:44
Is that self promotion? I argue it's definitely not It's
43:49
it's it's giving light and attention to a super important
43:52
topic and and else probably cringes at the the idea that she
43:58
needs to get up and do self promotion.
44:02
It is much more about furthering the mission of of what she
44:08
stands for, right? And so I think that's the if you
44:13
and also if you position it that way, it's much easier to do.
44:17
Yeah, because then you're doing someone else a favor.
44:20
Exactly. And you're not selling yourself,
44:24
but you're selling something that helps other people.
44:27
Exactly. Exactly because it because the
44:30
other the other way also makes me cringe and you see the people
44:34
that do it and it's just like yuck.
44:37
Yeah, but yeah, I hear you. Unless you're in entertainment
44:43
or whatever, but you know. Yeah, I think this has been a
44:48
terrific conversation. Two final questions.
44:52
So if I gave you a mic to inspire, I don't know, one
45:00
1000s, maybe thousands of female founders who want to build have
45:06
found a problem worth solving, where would you let them start?
45:10
What's the first step they should take?
45:13
Talk to people. If you have a problem that's
45:21
worth solving, do your research then and there.
45:27
Understand the problems space as deeply as possible and speak to
45:32
the people that are already in that problem space and and just
45:36
validate why the solution you think you're about to spend all
45:43
your time and energy years in has not already been done.
45:51
You know, like, and the, the, the initial research that we did
45:56
with Quan, which was like more like a year, just a less shy of
46:00
a year of conversations. I have like 300 conversations,
46:04
right? To better understand the
46:06
problems face to this day has put me in a good stead.
46:11
And so, and now with AI, you can get access to a hell of a lot
46:17
more information. So I'm actually not jealous at
46:20
all of founders that have to start now because I feel like
46:23
the starting block is that much harder.
46:28
You need to just be able to research a hell of a lot better
46:33
because things happen so much faster.
46:35
But know the space, speak to people and go deep into the
46:41
topic before you say I'm going to build something.
46:46
And how do you balance, let's say, talking to people as we do
46:51
right now versus doing AI research, which is like really
46:56
quick? Yeah, no, there's limitations
47:00
with AI. So I've noticed that myself and
47:05
I think most people have like when you ask questions, it's not
47:08
always correct. It misses things.
47:14
And so I would say you use some hand in hand, right?
47:20
So yeah, if I, if I was going to start something to do with how
47:24
to build an amazing table that does some fancy stuff, like I
47:30
would be like, OK, what's the fancy stuff?
47:33
And who's already created something like that?
47:37
And then find that person and ask them for a conversation.
47:41
But you could use AI to basically identify here are the
47:45
top 10 people, right? But but you wouldn't be like,
47:49
tell me what? Well, because there's all this
47:51
information that's in their heads or documented in a place
47:54
that is not accessible. And that's the reason why I
47:58
would do both. And even to this day, I've just
48:03
noticed in the last few months the speed at which we can work
48:07
and the speed at which we can do competitor analysis.
48:10
But I still fine when I speak to someone, which I do as part of
48:15
my current role, there are these aha moments that happen that
48:21
helps me improve my AI notes based on these human
48:26
conversations I'm having. So you've got a balance for two
48:28
is is is my take on it. Yeah, and, and use, let's say AI
48:34
for the inventory of the people to speak to and then get the
48:40
knowledge from them directly or maybe verify a couple of things
48:44
that you've been able to establish.
48:49
Because there's there's ways to to prompt at least GPT in a way
48:54
that it's sort of takes the bias and the hallucinations out.
48:59
I you, I, you. My go to thing is usually I ask
49:03
a question and then say and tell me why you answer this this way,
49:07
which is sort of a good way to that's a nice way, yeah, to to
49:12
at least let Cha chi PT think also.
49:15
But that's my tip. Use a paid version.
49:18
I was never going to mention this, but I recently transferred
49:23
things to our good friend, mutual friend Mikhil.
49:29
It doesn't take care of all the hallucination.
49:31
It does help you a lot in terms of the speed at which and also
49:39
the depth of discussions you can have so.
49:45
Amazing. Yeah, yeah, there's amazing
49:47
possibilities. Absolutely.
49:49
That's it. I rush up our thank you very
49:51
much for again an amazing conversation if people would
49:57
like to learn more about you or about true tribe.
50:00
Yeah. Where would you like to send
50:02
them? So connect with me on LinkedIn,
50:06
and I believe the True Tribe website is join truetribe.com.
50:11
So I'm just going to double check that exit.
50:13
Yeah, join truetribe.com. So yeah, I know that we're
50:17
hiring a few roles. So if you look on LinkedIn, you
50:20
can also see there that the team is now rapidly expanding.
50:24
Cool. So here's your call to action.
50:29
Thanks again. Really enjoyed this.
50:33
I hope the listeners did too. Probably they will.
50:36
If you did or did not, or if you have any questions, leave your
50:39
question in the comments. With that, thank you very much
50:43
for listening and until the next episode, keep being awesome.
50:54
Well, that's it for episode 122 of Women Disrupting Tech with
50:59
Hosha Brauer on scaling workplace well-being with impact
51:03
and integrity. Hosha.
51:05
And I hope that our conversation has given you inspiration for
51:09
your own entrepreneurial journey.
51:10
And if you have any questions for Hosha, please leave them on
51:14
Spotify, Apple or YouTube. I'll make sure you receive an
51:18
answer When you want to connect with Ahosha or learn more about
51:22
Guang or True Tribe. Please check out the links in
51:25
the show notes. And as usual, you can find show
51:27
notes at Women Disrupting Tech Find a link in the caption.
51:32
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52:46
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